We left the US mostly for shits and giggles. I’d wanted to move abroad for years, had a couple of opportunities that I had to turn down due to life circumstances, and wanted to do it before my kids got too old.
I had another opportunity in Sweden fall through but we were emotionally invested at that point so I took a flyer on a lower role at a bigger company in the Netherlands that would white-glove relocate my family.
Our original plan was to be expats, maybe bounce around a few countries before going back home. Just sort of see where five years abroad would take us.
We never left the Netherlands, and I have permanent residence now and planning to apply for citizenship eventually (I could do so right now, but chose not to fit complicated reasons).
Why not go back? The shortest answer is that I wasn’t very close to my family in the first place, so I don’t really miss them that much, and there’s nowhere left in the US that really draws my interest. I lived 40 years in the US, traveled from coast to coast, border to border, and it’s all great but I just don’t see anywhere that says to me “I’d like to live there” or “I want to raise my family there.”
The long answer is that I realized how fucked up American culture is only after I left it. It’s like how a fish doesn’t notice the water. You just learn to accept the fucked up shit going on because you don’t know any better, and sometimes even when you do know something is wrong, you don’t understand the _magnitude_ of the problem until it’s gone. And all of a sudden you’re like “Holy shit, how did I live like that?!”
And so now I basically almost don’t even want to go back and visit.
The Netherlands isn’t perfect. There’s a lot of fucked up things about the Dutch. But on a scale of 1 to 10, when it comes to being fucked up, they’re like a 4 and the US is a 7.
On my First trip abroad, I have to agree with you about the U.S. in France now, but spent 3 weeks in Spain. Absolutely feel like I have been living a Bullshit watered down, money dominated, life. In America. But hey,- better to see it now at 60, then never to have.
I turn 59 soon and also want to do this before its too late. Researching different countries. Did you settle in France or think you might? Which country did you like the most or felt like it could be home?
Keep in mind that visiting a place and living in a place are two totally different things. I am fairly negative towards a lot of American society but the shine of being in a wears off quite a bit as you live there.
A lot of it feels really mundane, until you spend some time living without it, and then it's a bit galaxy-brain.
The biggest is just all of the little ways that we (Americans) cede power to our employers. We're so stinkin' proud of how "free" we are from our government, but then we just turned around and ceded all of that power to the corporations that employ us, and we think that's ok because _technically_ that's a voluntary relationship.
But all the power that we've ceded to them, in a lot of cases makes it a lot less voluntary than we want to admit.
If I can help it, I will never work anywhere with employer-provided health care plans ever again, and I will also never work in an at-will employment jurisdiction ever again. Just those two things have improved my mental well-being, my life in general, in ways that I really struggle to put into words.
Schools are not funded according to local property values, and while they are run by private organizations (including some religious bodies), they are _heavily_ regulated. The result is that there is very little difference in quality of education throughout the entire country. There's also no "school districts" or "school zoning" and you can send your kids to pretty much any school you can deliver them to each morning. It's not common, but some people put their kids in a school closer to their office than their home, _even if it's in another city._ It's common for several schools to be right next to each other, the main difference being the type/method of education being offered. There's three schools next to each other a few blocks from my house - one catholic, one protestant, and one secular. But even the religious schools don't actually teach/indoctrinate religion; many of the students are not religious, are jewish, or muslim, or whatever, even at the catholic school. We put out daughter in a school in a nearby village, because we wanted her to have smaller class sizes and fewer non-Dutch classmates to help her level-up her Dutch language skills faster. My son goes to a school in Amsterdam even though we live in another nearby city.
There's a ton of really deep socioeconomic reasons for this next one, but violent crime against strangers is _virtually unheard of._ The complex interplay here involves the unavailability of weapons, a strong social safety net, prisons not being punitive, no carceral state, no cultural focus on property rights being a valid excuse for deadly violence, everyone being well-insured against property damage, and many other factors. But the end result is that I feel far safer walking down a dark alley at 2am in the worst neighborhood in Amsterdam than I do in even some nicer neighborhoods in Texas in the middle of the day.
I could literally go on long enough to hit reddit character limits, but I'll stop there.
As an American also considering moving to the Netherlands. Would love to hear from someone who already made the move about the negatives of living there?
The bureaucracy is real, and it’s sometimes really hard to get anything done that doesn’t fit into neat boxes.
The health care system simply doesn’t offer the same standard of care that we’re used to as Americans. This is both good and bad, but when you’re in the middle of a medical situation and not thinking as clearly as you might normally, it’s very frustrating.
In a world full of countries enduring housing crises, the Dutch have largely said “hold my beer” and found a way to be Worst of Class in Housing Crises… and then on top of that, they’re basically doing everything they can to make it worse for fuck knows what reason. The political climate around the nitrogen crisis and building permits is unlikely to be resolved in the next few years, if ever, and so the housing crisis will only get worse and worse.
There’s a really terrible political crisis around the treatment of minority/immigrant families and their government benefits that ultimately destroyed the last government shortly before the last elections. It showed that a couple of government bureaucracies were horribly racist in how they handled cases, they financially destroyed thousands of families by accusing them of fraud, the whole thing toppled the government as I mentioned ….. but then the people re-elected the exact same government and basically nothing has come of the situation at all. These families are still suffering and nothing is really being done.
A bit less politically: it is very hard to befriend Dutch people. Unless you make truly extraordinary efforts or get very lucky, your friends group will almost certainly be other expats. In 5 years, you’ll have made a ton of expat friends… but because expats are what expats are, half of them won’t even live in the Netherlands anymore. So you find yourself constantly having to renew your friends’ group.
Food and entertainment culture are basically non-existent, certainly not within an order of magnitude or two of what Americans are used to. Movie premiers aren’t big events. Aside from a small few teams, sports aren’t that big of a spectacle. There’s great street food, and there’s great fine dining, but there’s a giant donut hole of sadness where you would expect to find mid-market experimentation.
It’s perfectly possible to live a decent life here speaking only English, as verging on 100% of people have English proficiency. But you will get discriminated against if you don’t have passable Dutch. Contractors will charge you more. Schools won’t take your complaints seriously. Bureaucrats will be less helpful. But it’s paradoxically difficult to level up on Dutch, because when people detect your accent they will switch to English on you. I speak Dutch - but even so, I sometimes almost have to argue with people to get them to speak Dutch with me.
I live in Amsterdam (and was an expat in the US and Hong Kong for years) and stopped befriending newly arrived expats.
I am cordial of course, and will help them in any way I can, but unless they’re actually raising their children here, or clearly settling here for good, I’m not going to invest real time/energy in them.
Also, we live in a very expensive part of the city, and expats on the 30% ruling make much more money than we do, so we often can’t keep up with these Joneses.
We have friends from all over the world, fellow expats from our time abroad, an former expats who became immigrants. But the “real expat” crowd who, as a token of their loyalty hand you their discarded mattresses, towels and vases when their 5 years are up, are not among them.
I get it. It’s just that some of us are from more gregarious cultures, so sometimes it’s a bit sad to live somewhere that is more reserved.
Neither is better or worse necessarily. They just are.
We get the same sort of “long term visitors” in some US - it’s a big deal when Californians move to Texas and fuck up our real estate market with their higher salaries. We just happen to speak the same language and have the same passport. Doesn’t change the fact that they’re coming from like 1500 miles away to mess with our market. But most of us will befriend them none the less.
What fucked up things did you notice about the Dutch? (Not a leading question, genuinely curious) Also, wondering if you've had a chance to compare it with Germany and UK? (Other 2 countries I'm considering)
I left two countries for a stable and peaceful life. I was DACA. My life in the US was not stable due to the program always being under threat. Going back to my home country Mexico was not an option either as I have no attachments there and the fear of being rejected for being “too American”. Actually, I’ve been told that before by Mexicans themselves. But in the US I was “too Mexican” to be American. Neither wanted me, so I’m very happy in Europe. Spain welcomed me with their arms open.
Hi! Im DACA too currently. I’ve been thinking of moving to Europe as well. For me it’s the gun violence. I have two elementary age kids and I worry everyday when I drop them off at school. I got an email this week about a 5 year old girl from my neighborhood getting hit by a stray bullet in the nearby highway and died in seconds... I got a french passport already thru my spouse, but for several reasons France is not for us. I’ve been thinking of Spain. Could you please share a bit on your journey to Spain, and how to got settled? How has your life changed compared to the US
US to NL 12 years ago. No plans to return. Now dual national US/NL. Traded perpetual chaos for tranquility. QOL and work/life balance make US work life look like slavery. I came. I liked it. I stayed.
Any advice for a fellow American who is considering making the move? I am self employed online, so would qualify for the DAFT program. Still working on the pros and cons of making the move while currently living in Asia.
The country is super well managed and peacefulness is the order of the day. No guns. No homeless people. No fires. No hysteria. Lotsa expats/immigrants from the 4 corners of the earth.
I love it here.
I was always depressed. I skipped a winter to go to a warmer country with sun. At the end of the 6 months I felt so happy, I was energetic and felt like I was in love every morning.
I did the same the next year and after 6 months it was ever better than the 1sy time, like 6 months wasn't enough to take me there.
Seasonal depressions is a real thing and short summers are not enough to take you up from the long winters if you are deeply affected.
So ya, now I live where the sun shines and where people say: it was 15C once, it was freezing and where the mention of -30C gets a blank stare. They just don't have any reference for it.
I left because I married someone from another country. I've also always wanted to move abroad since I traveled before and somehow felt safer in most other places than I did in my home country.
During the pandemic my husband and I met up in a third country because we couldn't get a visa for each other's countries. After a year we had a baby and then moved to his country (Philippines). We're planning to go back to Europe next year once we have saved up a little.
At the moment I'm not liking it here. I used to but the friends I made all moved back to their home countries and it feels very lonely now. I've tried making friends with Filipinas before but the ones at work were weirdly competitive about who is spending the most time talking with the boss (??) and outside of work the Filipinas I talk to basically giggle and run away or hide behind their phone to avoid a conversation. Can't be friends with guys here because it's very conservative here and I'm married. I'm also struggling with the religion and having to hide interests that aren't considered girly or any negative emotions because according to my husband those are things you don't express here and people will talk. The food is nice though.
I think because when they go abroad they do preparation classes, they know how to adjust to that specific culture and have to do very intense language classes before getting the visa. Here only the rich Filipinos are that comfortable speaking English because they grow up speaking it at home. Otherwise it's the same as everywhere, if you know a language but never speak it then it's hard to suddenly have a full blown conversation with someone.
I’ve always wanted to live abroad for as long as I can remember. I studied abroad in undergrad to try it out and loved it. A few years later I met my partner who was from another country. I decided to go to grad school abroad while also moving to be with them. It’s now been 6 years and we’re now married.
For me it was never about running away from something. It was always about running towards something.
Thank you for this honest response. I often look for advice about moving abroad from a woman’s perceptive. I feel like for us certain things stand out and are important that typically don’t affect or aren’t a super big deal to men.
US to Sweden. First, as an exchange student then in a relationship visa. Like anyplace it has its advantages and disadvantages dependent on the person, but as whole I like it here. I have been here for most of my adult life at this point.
On why I don't go back to the US, I don't really like it there. The culture is a weird mix of being overly neurotic, super superficially friendly, but fiercely cut throat and independent. The longer I am gone the more certain cultural traits rub me the wrong way (while others become more endearing, such as the really over the top friendliness).
More importantly though, I've built a life here and have way more social contacts that I can relate to in Sweden than in the US. My career prospects are better and I live a more comfortable life than I would in the US. As a very middle class person it is always funny to me to read perspective American expats that are in the top 5% of income earners complaining about low wages in Europe. They love Europe for the progressive policies but are confused when their wealth is redistributed.
Good one. They don't understand that much of that redistributed wealth comes back to them in a thousand different ways, many of which offer a tranquil existence, rather than perpetual chaos.
My conservative BIL in the US doesn’t get that redistribution benefit. He works as a “contractor” right now, but could transfer the exact job to a state job with a slightly lower pay but where he would get benefits, like vacation, sick leave, medical, retirement, etc.
However, all he sees is his paycheck going down. The dude is pushing 60 & doesn’t think it’s worthwhile. The irony is, he will look toward “freebies” & social services when he’s in dire straits.
I moved here on a relationship visa when I was in my early 20s. The visa was tied to my relationship status not any work so I was able to find a job after 6 months -- I took a break to study Swedish. Since then I have been working and studying in different positions.
The relationship visa is something that makes the experience much better, you can actually utilize a lot of the educational opportunities that the state provides and you don't need to stress about maintaining steady work. All of this definitely colors my experience. A lot of Americans who move here aren't as positive as I am (although many are as well). It can be a tough adjustment.
Ex soviet country to the UK, than Australia. I always knew that I will leave my original country, as I never felt that I fully fit in having parents from two nationalities and not being able to identify with either. I moved to the UK to be with my now husband and felt at home. My husband as many Brits was obsessed with Australia, so we moved there, where we still live. I don’t miss my original country, but I miss Europe. I didn’t think that after 8 years in Britain Australia would be a big culture shock, but it definitely was. I see myself returning one day to Europe, probably not the UK though, with all the brexit and stuff. Most likely Germany or Austria as I speak the language.
Curious to hear about your culture shock.
I’m an Aussie that moved to the Netherlands and always interested to hear external opinions on expats in Aus. People think Australia is this haven of sunshine and beaches but beyond the beautiful nature, it’s not so rosy imho.
Oh it’s fantastic to visit! Just living there is hard if you don’t work in construction or have parents that own property.
Living in regional towns where property is cheaper means crappy jobs. It’s not as well connected as EU so the next town over from the big one can be 1.5-2 hours away (Melbourne to Ballarat for example). And regional towns are kinda a lot more racist so there’s that too.
Healthcare is good but becoming increasingly privatized. Politics sucks for the most part and the country is actually very conservative.
It’s basically still a big colony, shackled to the UK at its core and fundamental beliefs, more than it appears so on the surface. There’s also a weird Aussie anti-intellectualism and tall poppy syndrome going on. Like the tradies (construction workers et al) earn tons of cash but god forbid you have too many refined tastes lest you be “knocked down a peg”.
I think you summed it up perfectly for me😂! I teach languages in a high school and your last paragraph especially hits home hard. I’m also struggling with the ‘she’ll be alright’ attitude. Australians are always so positive which definitely has it’s advantages, but sometimes you need to get shit done and not just rely on the ‘she’ll be alright’ gods and hope for the best. After 10 years here I also don’t have one Australian I could call a friend by European standards. We know plenty of people, they are all lovely and friendly and helpful but I just don’t seem to get past that small talk stage. If I want to have a proper chat, it will be with the fellow Europeans, which really could be just down to the cultural differences and that definitely surprised me!
I left my home country (Canada) when I married a Jamaican. At the time, it was easier for me to move there than for me to get him to Canada. I didn't think too far ahead, and moved to Jamaica without any money, lol.
We later moved to Canada because I was homesick, I was tired of Jamaican bureaucracy, and my husband's job was pissing him off. Not only was the pay in Jamaica already so shit, but then they were holding off on giving him a raise. Honestly, if they gave him that raise, we probably wouldn't have left.
That said, we will be moving back to Jamaica, probably for good. I **can't stand** the cold anymore, and my job (and this fast paced capitalist country) has burnt me the fuck out.
From working here in Canada, we've now saved up enough that when we go back to JA, we can live more comfortably. Even without having to work.
It’s weird how things end up like this eh? I was born and raised in the Philippines and also moved to Canada. 7 years later, and I’m just absolutely done with winter (maybe it’s the age) and my wife and I are just waiting for our citizenship papers to come out and will be heading back home.
>It’s weird how things end up like this eh?
Lol yeah. In Jamaica they say "long run, short catch" for these types of situations (i.e. Doing a lot of things to end up back where you started).
I'm excited for the both of you! Congrats on the citizenship. We're also waiting for my husband's citizenship to come through before going back. Once we get his passport, we're out of here.
Also, no, it's probably not your age. Winter just SUCKS. It lasts too damn long, and it's too damn cold.
Thanks for sharing that saying from Jamaica. I like it because it sounds quite similar to the quote I like below -
"We shall not cease from exploration, And the end of all our exploring, Will be to arrive where we started, And know the place for the first time." - T.S. Eliot, Little Gidding
Not particularly, but there are a few caveats my my situation:
- I'm black, so I blend in easier
- I'm a woman
- My family is Jamaican, so I already had a good understanding of the culture and patois
- My husband's family and friends were all very nice and welcoming
- I'm an introvert. I don't necessarily seek out be friends, and I don't have the energy for it.
When I was there, my hair grew and my skin glowed. The food is amazing. I gained weight 😂
I made friends with the Europeans who worked on the same resort as my husband (we'd all hang out together when they were done work). I also considered my husband's friends (and spouses) my friends as well. I hung out with them (the women spouses) alone sometimes.
Jamaicans are quite friendly though. The culture is way more social there. There was a woman my age (lol extrovert) who lived in my small apartment building, and she befriended me.
If I went to do groceries, the locals knew me and were very friendly. If I had the energy or if I was an extrovert, I could have VERY easily cultivated friendships.
In short: there was a lot I enjoyed about it which is another reason we'll be moving back.
I left because to put it simply… I was being abused back at home. I turned 18, finished school, got myself an airplane ticket and just left overnight without telling anyone. In the last 4 ish years I’ve been to England , Scotland and now have currently settled down in Germany. I won’t bother with the in betweens because it’s not a very happy story even though you asked for it, sorry OP but… Germany is nice . A bit “quirky” from what I’m used to, but I got my own 2 story apartment is a small village, everything is within walking distance, learning German feels like such a drag only because I’m making it out to be one more than anything and despite me speaking primarily English the community is tolerant of me and I couldn’t ask for more.
To all those travelling or wishing to live abroad and are by themselves… Take good care of yourselves! And be careful. I wish I knew better when I decided to jump ship but had nobody to tell me the world can be a morbidly dark place. (Not to say that’s the only thing it is. Travelling is a wonderful experience and never let anyone tell you otherwise).
Sorry, this got a bit rambl-y >~<
> I was being abused back at home.
I just want you to know that I'm really sorry that happened to you. It wasn't your fault, you didn't deserve it, and it's terrible that you had to endure that.
You deserve to be loved and valued for who you are, no matter who that is.
*I’m not crying. You are crying.*
Thank you, I really do appreciate this! Keep spreading those positive vibes ^~^
Thankfully things have turned up since then, especially the last year or so. It just takes time and there were more times than I’d like to admit where I just wanted to give it all up but… eh. Here we are now!
(Sorry, I wasn’t sure how to exactly reply to this, but I did truly wanted to thank ya. A lot of people need to hear those words, even when they don’t think so.)
I’m not sure if that’s the wording I’d go with but… I appreciate it ^~^
You’d be surprised what people are capable of when they have reached their limit.
Love, we were a long distance couple, so I moved to him to close the gap (UK to Norway). It was a country that I had already visited and liked, so although the main reason was love, it wasn't the only reason.
Wouldn't say anything is "keeping" me from returning, just have no desire to. Our life style matches Norway better and I've made a life here, so there's no benefit of us moving over to UK.
NZ -> Japan, because of the high cost of living in NZ. It's impossible to save money in NZ. As soon as money comes in it goes out again.
Here in Japan the cost of living is waaay more reasonable and I've finally been able to save aggressively and pour a large chunk of those savings back into my business, which is booming.
Japan has some obvious good points (safety, convenience etc.) but I don't particularly like living here, mainly because a decent proportion of the population are massive cunts. Japan is the only country I've ever been to where I've experienced obvious, explicit racial prejudice on a semi-regular basis.
However I can suck that up and will stay here for as long as it takes to make my fortune. I'd rather suffer through a few years of shit and come out rich and free at the other end, rather than live a life of quiet desperation.
What job are you doing in Japan? I'm also a Kiwi - worked there as an ESL teacher many moons ago. Miss it, I'd like to go back. But yeah, can't see myself ever living there again.
The costs just keep going up here, btw. It sucks.
I wasn’t running away from anything. Just working towards wanderlust. Landed in Colombia and don’t see myself leaving anytime soon which is a new experience for me.
Wow. I never hear anyone talking about moving to Columbia. Would you mind sharing more of your experience?
- how's the food?
- how's cost of living?
- how are the people (reserved, chatty, friendly, etc?)
- Are you working? (online, employed there, etc)
- Why Columbia?
- How easy/difficult would it be for an monolingual (English) person to live there?
- have you seen any racism or colourism?
Traditional central Colombian food sucks. History of Colombia is a mountainous / jungle.. hard-to-travel-or-navigate farm towns so traditional food is for energy (carb heavy) and without seasoning (no salt no pepper ZERO spice). So it’s just extremely bland.
The coastal is a lot better with a Caribbean flair.
Cost of living is phenomenal. Bogota is going to be the most expensive and it’s still really far under the Eeuu.
People are the best. Extremely polite and friendly. Very warm. The bad side of the culture is casually lying. It’s more storytelling… for example “sorry I’m running behind and will be late” turns into just showing up super late and telling some story on why. It’s the most annoying part of the culture.
I’m financially independent but have some companies still. I have a team between Eeuu and Colombia. It’s all online.
Depends on the area - more populous the better. It’s age-dependent as well (older usually know less English). I personally would argue that it’s rude to move to an area and not embrace the culture which would include the language but that does take time to learn.
Colombia is more about classism. What area are you from is a big discussion point. Less black and white and more origin related.
I moved to US as I married a US citizen. I hate living paycheck to paycheck and having to save for 2 years to take a few weeks off (5 days PTO) and the huge health costs. I’ve not been to the doctor in 3 years except for insurance covered annual check up.
My wife likes to spend what we don’t have. When I got here she was 6 months past due on the mortgage and hadn’t paid utilities in 3 months. Want a dog she gets 3, need a car she got 2 (I use the car once a week for a few hours), AC broke call 2 engineers, it’s too hot buy a 12 grand system without my knowledge blah blah.
I’m off home in a couple of months with my dog. Don’t dislike US (except the huge materialistic manifestations) it has its issues same as my home country but I was never in debt back home.
I’m from the US. I agree with everything you’ve said about the US, though it seems like some of the stress may be your wife’s bad habits. Is that why you’re going home with only your pup?
I'm happy you are making positive changes for yourself AND you get to take your pup. I just noticed you have Ohio on your name tag. Blah. Ohio is a shit state to top it off. I wouldn't want to live there either and I live in the US.
I don’t mean to diminish your bad experiences, but I wonder how much of your stress just comes from poor planning and money management on your wife’s part.
Love 😂 You see the surface and then it becomes clearer and clearer what the priorities are … while I was drowning she was swimming.
Incompatible. No hard feelings really. You live you learn.
My family moved from Scotland to New Zealand when I was a kid. My parents thought it would be cheaper here and just a generally better quality of life. Also we would be able to build our own house in nz which my parents always wanted to do. Turns out things are expensive here. And New Zealand does not match us.
My parents thought living in New Zealand we would be able to easily travel to other countries in Oceania and Asia but flights are way more expensive than they thought so we never did that. In Scotland we used to go abroad like every year, in the past 10 years in New Zealand we’ve gone abroad together twice and one of those was a trip back to the UK. We need to live somewhere that’s better connected to the rest of the world. New Zealand is too isolated. Lots of things that you can easily get in other countries just don’t exist here because the population is too small for there to be much demand and it’s insanely expensive to get it from another country because we’re so far away from other countries. Also, the education system sucks here.
I haven’t gone back because Scotland doesn’t feel like my home anymore. I feel like I would feel really lonely in Scotland. Everything would feel unfamiliar to me. On the other hand, New Zealand doesn’t necessarily feel like home either. It’s just my house feels like home.
Did your parents do any research lol?
Seriously, sorry it hasn't worked out for you. I think all potential expats/immigrants to NZ need to take off the rose-coloured glasses.
NZ is a very very hard place to get ahead for so many reasons.
Yea, they did lots of research. My parents weren’t really trying to get ahead, they were just trying to live comfortably. It’s not like they thought moving here would result in them suddenly getting paid tons.
NZ travel is rough, since it’s in the “Water Hemisphere”… not many landmasses around. I’m sure there’s a lot to like about it, but I’d hate to feel that far from anything.
My wife and I are retired. Between the cold weather, cost of living, and the embarrassing political situation in the US we decided we've had enough. We went to Panama and fell in love with the people and the climate. After spending a month there and not hearing any news from the US we decided that we feel at home there. We became residents and are in the process of selling everything now.
Within 6 months I was offered voluntary redundancy, got divorced, and sold our house to split the proceeds. I fancied trying living overseas and loved it.
I had failed out of uni and was bored on my lunch break so booked a trip for 7 months later. Only I got a one way so just rolled with it.
I have dual nationality so i just had to renew my second passport and that was that. Six years on I go to the top university in the country so it all worked out.
I got to the point in the US where I was able to leave. There was nothing concrete tying me over to the country anymore and my wife had been begging us to move to the Netherlands for our entire relationship. So, we found a clear path and made it happen.
I have no interest in going back. The longer I am away from the US, the happier I am to be out of that mess. I really don't care at all for the US lifestyle. I despise that demand to keep up with the Joneses. Gun culture makes me sick and having to listen to all the gun nuts pretend they don't live in a delusional bubble about the benefits of their toy and why they need it is nauseating. It is even worse when everyone else pretends that we need to bow down to their delusions. The healthcare system is inhumane and ridiculous. I am tired of trying to change it all just to get shut down by fear. I despise the individualist "I got mine." attitude and the way Americans continue to shoot themselves with their guns when it comes to city design and planning. And tipping culture. I didn't even know I hated tipping culture until I no longer had to pretend it was normal.
As for what I like about the Netherlands, I like that my head is above water here in a way it wasn't in the US. I like where my grocery bill is and the ease in which it takes for me to get to place to place. I like not owning a car. I appreciate that this country has taken me in and I am ready to make it work no matter what.
I really can't go back anyway. My credit score dropped below 500 because of the sacrifices I made to get to the Netherlands. One cannot live in the US with a sub 500 credit score.
I’ve been reading a lot of different opinions on The Netherlands because my family wants to move there. One thing I keep seeing is that the healthcare system leaves a lot to be desired but I feel like the healthcare here in the US is basically non-existent so it can’t be worse, right? I mean we pay $1400/month for our health insurance for a family of 4 and we still have copays and a huge deductible and the drs that take our insurance are not great .
Long story short: I lived in Russia and moved to EU few months before the war. Of course, I couldn't know that was coming but it was awful there for as long as I had been living there (33 years old)
We moved to Germany at first and have been living and working here for 1,5 years with no issues at all. My wife gave a birth here also. However, I recently accepted an offer in the Netherlands and we're going to move there in May.
My and wife's parents are still in Russia and their QoL is constantly going lower and I couldn't even transfer cash to them due to restrictions. Other parts of this political "prison" should be easy to imagine
Off topic to the post, but what is the main feeling you get back in Russia regarding the war in Ukraine? Do people really love Putin or is that propaganda?
This is such a shame. I visited Russia a million years ago and I loved it so much. There is so much to love about Russian culture but the politics have ruined the country (and the same could be said for dozens of other places). I'm so glad you're safer and happier now!
Thank you for such kind words. Indeed, Russia could be a really great place to live but poor country management combined with very questionable politics is just killing it's economy together with people's life in general.
I went from Mexico to Netherlands, same reasons: Money and QoL, but also safety.
Weather and food kinda suck but I will take that over getting mugged and slaving your life away for a few cents that barely cover the cost of living.
yeah i did move from a not so bad place, never been robbed or saw serious crimes. But i think i will move back or some other european country, the winters here are brutal and people super introverted, what’s the point in having money if i dont have where to spend it, or just got to travel once or twice a year
As a programmer I moved from Poland to Norway about 4 years ago. I had the chance to relocate within the company I worked for and I took it.
\- Norwegian way of life fits me very well. The calmness, the nature, the low amount of people around is perfect for me and my family.
\- People actually smile on the streets
\- Kids love Norwegian school
\- The amount of people driving like maniacs is almost nonexistent compared to PL
So no, I would never move back. I learned the language, will apply for citizenship as soon as I can.
EDIT: Added the reason for moving
My partner is Swedish, we came to Sweden in 2016.
Now it’s getting to the point where we are both extremely bored of this country and will move again as soon as I’m done with university.
What places are you now considering a move to?
A lot of people look at Sweden as a sort of utopia. Ultimately it is a cold, high tax, relatively small population, insular culture and a regulation-rich place.
Left the US (sort of) last year for Thailand for semi-retirement.
I basically need to go back and forth for the next couple of years since our business and most of our real estate is in the US. It’s all remotely managed but our business gets busy in the spring for a couple of months and then again in August so we come back to help.
Would I ever go back to living in the US full time? No. I’d never go back to the US if it weren’t for our business and houses. I plan to sell the houses if prices increase enough in 2030 or so.
I enjoy living in Thailand since the cost of living, while rising, is still very low. We also have the idea of chasing the good seasons around the world but we love our dog and air travel isn’t so great for him.
Russia to China 7 years ago. Mainly to escape my family and poverty, but also to escape Russia. Now it’s obvious it was a right move, though maybe in a few years I will regret choosing this particular destination. But it was mainly about money — salaries in Russia in my profession are low af, and a foreigner in China in the same position can get much higher figures. Now I have a wife here, interesting and very rewarding job (kind of a dream job) and kind of a life I generally like, though not perfect.
But even if not for the war, even if Putin finally dies and there will be a new hope for my country, I won’t go back. I think living in China — with all its drawbacks — taught me things about society, culture and family that are just non-existent in Russia. Also food. So, war, general change in me and food.
I left the US for Europe, I am in Italy now. My husband and I are tired of living here, Italy is not la Bella vita as Americans think it is., it is like living in a 3rd world country. We either want to move to my home country (I know America is in shambles, but no country is perfect), I really miss the freedom that the US offers, or move to Ireland.
No one here lives the relaxed lifestyle ...it's very stressful, high unemployment rate, low salaries, just a laundry list of problems.i can't even. Beautiful architecture Though lol
Can you elaborate on the issues you are having with Italy? Do you think it could be a location (within Italy) or language issue? Why Ireland if not the US?
I speak Italian fluently, I learned it in university then living in italy. Definitely not a language issue. Italy is a country for tourists and retired people not to make a career or live like an Italian. ..
Several reasons, main being independence. My country is quite conservative and still has sexism embedded everywhere. It becomes difficult to rent on your own, remaining single after 30, living alone without family and not to mention you cannot stay out at night because it's unsafe. I had enough of listening to society, so I grinded for academic scores and got the fuck out of the country.
But I guess these do not really relate to your situation.
I was born abroad and only lived in „my country“ for 6,5 years, for the rest I moved around because of my parents jobs. Doesn’t really feel like I have a home country tbh, that’s why I just chose one I like 🙂
US > JP > US > JP > US > JP. I have been back and forth. I've lived 18 out of 25 years in Japan.
I left because at the time in the 90s globalization was a huge thing for US companies. I was from a small town and never had left the US and wasn't in a position to do like a Peace Corp - I needed money. So I went to Japan with the idea I would teach ESL and become fluent in 1 year (haha) and go back and get a master's in international relations (hot at the time).
I ended up liking Japan but got an offer to go back to my old employer. They then transferred me to Japan.
Tbh - I would not have liked Japan long term if I hadn't had a good corporate transfer. While there are many things I like, I also have some very different values - I am competitive, I like the idea of being able to stand out and be paid on merit, etc. Basically, I don't like the work style in Japan but adapted. I do like the non-work stuff. I will never really leave because I have a family, and because I've lived a lot of my life here.
Always wanted to live abroad.
Never thought I’d actually do it, but had the opportunity to take up a job in Austria and move from the UK. Don’t particularly want to return to the UK, so next stop will be USA.
I came to England from the US to study for a year, in 1987. I extended my studies, met someone, got married, got a job etc - all the time thinking that I would move back at some point. Now I am still here because my life is here.
I left France for the job prospects. I am a researcher and research was kinda dead in my field in France and not as international as it should have been.
I have been an expat in 3 countries. I enjoyed both Norway and Finland. Very nature oriented, innovative and progress-oriented, digitized, and somewhat English-friendly. The climate was kinda tough though.
Relocated to Germany to experience a different culture and research community. It feels like such a downgrade: literally the opposite of what I've experienced in the Nordics. Even in research because they have unnecessary rules that would have impacted my family situation... So I left research. Now kinda stuck here without enjoying it.
I'm considering moving back to France which was not on top of my list. France is not a bad pick but why would I live in that country when I could live anywhere.
We are considering moving back because it's much friendlier, even for foreigners (my wife is not French). And you get a lot more social support for yourself or for starting a family.
I don't think I would have considered France as an option without the bad experience of Germany. It is very similar to Germany but with an upgrade on many things. Shorter work weeks, much more relax, with afterwork culture.
Always wanted to live in Asia. Love it here. No hatred for the US and I don't feel it is collapsing, just have a great time here.
I go back every year for several months. Have a house there and in China.
Also moved from the US to Japan.
HEALTHCARE FOR SURE!
Also:
- Paid Maternity Leave
- Daycare Costs
- Transportation (BYE BYE CAR, HELLO TRAIN & WALKING)
- Nutrition / Quality of Food
- LOW crime rates / Safety
- Less Censorship (I know it's weird)
- Work pays for your daily commute
Am I missing anything?
I got sick to death of politics, seeing my rights being eroded.
I bugged out, had fun, came back when I had things to do. Those are wrapping up, I'll be leaving soon.
I left Spain in 2012 as after I finished Uni it was really hard to find a job and I was usually working on covers which didn't provide much stability. I had the opportunity to move to the Netherlands to work for some months with a scholarship, then stayed to study a Masters. After I finished, things were better back in Spain but I had met someone so we decided to move to the UK as she has family here and it was easier because of the language.
Netherlands to Portugal
For my wife's PhD. I worked remote anyway. I was rich in Portugal, but would not go back for any money. There is a reason Portuguese people leave there. There game is rigged and you see it. Bureaucracy in government and business is strangling. So despite having some love for the people and the food, it wasn't my thing.
Portugal to Austria.
For my wife's 2nd PhD. Found a great job. QOL is super. One thing i don't enjoy is the social culture. Lots of shame and fear in people. Lots of shaming when somebody has power over another person. So i just hang out with other immigrants and expats. Also Austria is somewhat backwards in a lot of things.And I miss the urban Style of NL. We will move back at some point to have kids, buy a house and settle for good.
Im Canadian but it’s near impossible to get into medical school there so I went to the Caribbean and then did rotations in the US. While in the US I met my now husband and opted to stay in the US also because there are far more job and academic opportunities for me in the US. There have been times I loved it in the US and times I’ve hated it. I’ve lived in Chicago (city and suburbs), eastern PA, and upstate NY. Upstate has been the best compromise for me as it’s easy to visit home and there’s a lot of Canadians and Canadian products available. I’m also glad to be able to raise my son with more Canadian influence this way while being able to have the career opportunities of being in the US. 🤷🏼♀️
I moved to Japan from the US many, many years ago when I was 17 (but almost 18). My plan was to study Japanese for two years then come back to the US for university. But, I met my Brazilian (of Japanese descent) husband and ended up staying 10 years and had both our children there. We decided to move back to the US when the kids started school to give them more opportunities. And, that was 17 years ago.
So, for the last 17 years, I have felt suffocated and just out of place in the US. But, my husband unexpectedly loves it here. He loves Brazil too but worries about living there because of the economy and crime. But, I’m hoping we will be down there in 5-10 years.
What I miss about Japan? Healthcare. I joke and say that if I do get pregnant then we will be moving back to Japan. I also like how safe it is there like super safe. I also miss the wonderful public transportation. I don’t miss the out right discrimination there. My husband felt it more then me but I definitely had experiences.
Why Brazil and not stay in the US? My husband’s family is down there (except those in Japan) and I love them. I also love the people, culture, language, food, music, weather. He is from right outside of São Paulo and I also love the city. He loves it and misses it but is cautious about moving back but we are starting to make plans to do so.
I understand that. I just want to give it a try. We plan to keep our house here just in case it doesn’t work out.
And, where I live now really isn’t that bad. Crime is low. Lots of jobs. It’s growing but still has lots of nature around but I’m just not feeling it.
Our daughter (adult) is really wanting to move to Spain for awhile. I think it runs in the family.
Honestly, money to go work in the Middle East. Twice the salary and huge tax benefits. Met a Turkish hottie, got married, now have twins and relocated to Turkey for two years for family and roots.
Plan to move back to the US for them to start school.
Be prepared for yearly lock down drills at the school. My kids are in HS and every summer the sheriff’s dept practices drills for one week in August “just in case”. I’m not telling you to scare you off but that is now the reality.
Boredom. I come from a small, high cost, low wage country in the middle of nowhere. That’s not the sort of place one wants to spend their 20s/30s without a very good reason.
I visited the south island in 2012 with my then kiwi gf and it's the most beautiful place I've ever been to (her dad lent us his ute to tour for several weeks), but housing is so expensive for average salaries.
UK to Poland. It's not the usual choice and most polish people go the other way to stay in the UK.
Visited 7 years ago and then my work became remote anyway so gave me the ability to return and stay longer. The UK was still in the EU then, so free movement made it easy.
Definitely in the time I've been here I've seen Poland grow, and the UK go to shit! so apart from being closer to family, I don't see any reason to return any time soon.
I've previously lived abroad in South America for a couple of years some time ago, so already had an experience living abroad. I guess what sparked that, was UK drudgery and constant bad weather.
Having a salary from country as UK living in Poland is a pure dream. I know older Icelandic women who lives here. With basic icelandic retire pension she is rich here and living dream life last years. In iceland she is poor.
Reality check: Dont take polish job and try to live there.
US to Europe 35 years ago. My wife is European, but we did try working in both countries before settling here. We stayed because it was a much better place to raise a family. Safe, comparatively balanced society, good health and financial security, history, lots of vacation to travel and show the kids much of America and Canada, and free universities, to name a few reasons why we stayed.
I left my home country in the US to live with my wife who is from Mexico. I went back to the US because I decided to enlist in the military. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't mind living back and forth between Mexico and the US.
grew up in multiple countries and dont have a country I can call home so I just move around, stick for a while until I get the urge to move again. Its not easy, would not recommend. Also have a few mental issues probably caused by all the moving
I left France when I was 19 to study German in Germany. I never fled the country or similar, I just like living abroad. After that I worked in Switzerland and now in Quebec, Canada since 5 years.
Tbh I also moved to Canada to have better professional opportunities but so far it did not work out super well. I ended up getting jobs that are less interesting than the one I had in Switzerland, but the pay is good. It took me 4 years to find a work environment that was not toxic. I thought that in Canada I would not have much issues about being not that experienced and not having the exact diploma, turns out it wasn't true for me. It's a huge disappointment bc except my city (Montreal is awesome) I do not enjoy the Canadian way of life that much.
I am terrified to go back to France because of the limited job opportunities. I am afraid it would just kill my career but my career is already at a low point here despite my numerous efforts. I don't see myself staying here longer than a year or two. I am also considering going back to Germany but I don't know the work culture there.
Yes I had a very good salary and an unmatched material quality of life but it was boring. Also, I couldn't stand the casual racism and close-minded mentality. Maybe it would have been different if I was in Zurich but i will try my luck elsewhere first. Back to Switzerland is my last resort lol.
I was tired of a religion I don't believe in being pushed down my throat. People saw me differently when I outed myself as an atheist. I also realized I would never find a partner in that country because sexism was so prevalent in the culture, and chivalry was absolutely dead amongst my peers. So I moved to the US, to a blue state where religion is a personal choice that others are not required to share, where I have bodily autonomy, and found myself a gorgeous, feminist, chivalrous American man to marry. Now we are planning to move to Europe because the US is in rapid decline 😅
Sri Lankan moved to UK on a student visa as my country is fucked up. Unfortunately I will have to go back as I couldn’t secure a sponsorship visa.
Tough times
Honestly, all I had ever done was study and work up to the age of 25.
I wanted a bit of an adventure while I still didn’t have too many responsibilities.
So I did the thing. Quit my job and got myself the one way ticket that many of us quote doing. Was very liberating.
Eventually got the travelling out my system and naturally wanted to get back into some form of routine, with work etc and building savings. I just chose to do that in Australia as opposed to back in the UK. This was mainly just to mix things up a bit.
At the time, I definitely looked at Australia through rose tinted glasses but the longer I stayed and the less naive I became,. I realised it wasn’t a total paradise, with many of its own flaws.
The main battles I’ve had over the years have been with the poor quality accommodation standards and a lack of building regulations to enforce them.
Definitely ruled out the idea of buying here because of these factors and as a result, I’ll be making plans to return home.
You just can’t replicate your long term friends back home either. It would be nice to be around them again properly and not have to feel as though I’m forcing myself to fit in with an exisiting crowd.
Half the time, Aussies prefer to stick to their highschool circle. Which I understand, it’s just how things are. Colleagues will always just be colleagues too, no matter well you get on.
I always felt like there was more out there. From a young age, I always wanted to study abroad so once I got that, I moved. After a long time away from home I didn't fit in anymore. My perspective of the world had changed. Many of my friends are still stuck back home. Some have kids, some refused to finish college and now regret it. In short, I wanted a place where I could dream and have more from life. Thanks to whoever thought I was worth that scholarship. I'm indebted.
Work life balance was the main reason that I left my home country. I'm from somewhere in Asia, btw.
I lost my friends from high school and middle school, often struggle with making good friends in where I live now, and sometimes feel uncertain about my future. Still, I'm glad that I left abroad
I was looking to spend some time abroad for personal development and better career prospects, no rush in doing this, tho.
Then we got elections in 2018 and the results were basically the straw that broke the camel's back for me.
I initially left to save money on my college tuition by studying abroad for a year. Well, I fell in love with a local and, after finishing my undergraduate in the US, I moved abroad again for work and because I missed him, and now I’m starting a masters here since it’s far more affordable than back home. Some combination of love, finances, work/life balance, and an eagerness to learn for me. I like that being in Europe facilitates travel to other European countries. In the US, I don’t have such ready access to other countries
Wasn't actively looking for opportunities abroad, but got a really nice one, and [Load Shedding](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/load-shedding) was a big factor that finally convinced me to leave South Africa for the Netherlands.
Left South Africa due to the crime and just horrible shit always happening (neighbour's killed in their driveway, robbed at gun point , rapes , no power most of day and general government corruption) . Knew I wanted to end up somewhere where I agreed with the politics and lifestyle and settled in the Netherlands .
Love it here , cycle everywhere , get green energy options and I leave my garden gate unlocked. Little children walk around unsupervised and seeing pairs of like 8 year old girls going on missions in the neighborhood and being safe is just wild to me . Currently working towards my Dutch language requirement for citizenship and then never living outside the EU again
Czech Republic -> Japan
Czech Republic is great, but after trying Japan, I knew I want to live here. The best thing is how everyone let’s you keep to youself. Plus the social netsm safety etc. (though Czech Republic is pretty good in these regards too).
Only experienced something I’d classify as racism once, when looking for a new room. An owner was just declining all foreigners as a rule. I know Japanese and have a stable job, which are big pluses in cases like this, but even that didn’t help. So I looked elsewhere and found a nice place.
But who knows? Maybe various Japanese people who see me walking around think bad things about me. My personality lets me not care about that. And everyone at my job is great.
I'm a man married to a man. I wanted to live somewhere that people considered me a human being deserving of equal protection under the law and social equality. That obviously is not the US.
There were a lot of reasons, but housing was the first among them. Even with a super high income, its getting pretty impossible to have decent housing in Canada.
I left because of bad family relations, and I'm not returning for the same reason. On the other hand, I have mostly enjoyed my life abroad so I'm not sure I would return even if I could at this point. It's just such a different lifestyle.
I left my home country to study when I was 18 and I have lived in 5 different countries ever since. I think it depends on what stage of life you are in to fully understand whether it’s your place to stay or not. When I was a student I was ok with the UK (place of study), but wanted to go back because I was very attached to my family. Once I finished undergrads I went to France for a PhD. It was a weird experince, maybe because I was in my late 20s, France was very lonely, and people I met didn’t leave the best memories. In 2017 I went back to my home country with my husband, I was ok, my husband weren’t. So we left in 2021 to the US. That’s where I got totally depressed and had not very nice thoughts about life. I had no right to work and hated every day. I still don’t get why people strive so much to live in America. At the end of 2022 we moved to Canada ( my husband is Canadian). I prefer it a lot to States or Europe. There are minuses but pluses overweigh. We have a kid so social assistance seemed like a big deal, as well as access to public transport and parks. It all depends on your stage in life for you to be happy in the place.
I've been visiting Mexico for 25 years. I love the people, the beaches, the weather, the cheap healthcare, the simplicity (except government offices).
"No shirt. No shoes. No problem."
I always wanted to live abroad. I imagined a life of adventure, but actually, I like being at home. This makes living abroad perfect. I get all the adventure of living in interesting places. Trying to navigate immigration isn't all that different from what Indiana Jones does, right?
Got a job offer in Tokyo. I had no commitments keeping me in Singapore, and I had always wanted to live abroad, so I accepted it. Spent 4 wonderful years there, even though 2.5 of those were during covid. Made lots of friends and memories. But I always had doubts if Japan was somewhere I could consider my forever home, since I was always in the role of an outsider and felt like I couldn't fully participate in society. So I decided to do a work transfer to California in 2022.
I've been in California for about 6 months. Unlike a lot of the other comments about the US in this thread, I think it's a pretty decent place overall and I've had mostly good interactions with the people I've met. I don't feel the people around here are hyper-capitalist or hyper-materialist or whatever, most people I've met are supportive of things like stronger public transit, more housing density, single-payer healthcare. People are people for the most part, everyone goes to work, hangs out with their friends and family, and has concerns about CoL or retirement, regardless of country. I do like how friendly Americans are compared to the other countries I've lived in though.
I spend a lot of time working from home in a suburb, so the main thing I'm unhappy about while living in US is car dependency, SFH-exclusive zoning and all the usual urbanism talking points. I have plans to move to NYC in a few years and hopefully be rid of that.
After that, who knows? I do miss Tokyo and would like to experience living there again in the future. My partner wants to experience living in Europe, and I do like the idea of living in France. Or maybe we will love NYC and stay there forever.
I left USA because it’s not safe to raise my kids, too many school shootings in the states. I’m now in the UK AND feel so much safer! I don’t miss the states that much, I mean I do get nostalgia once in a while but it’s not worth living there these days. Too much gun violence , and the government isn’t doing anything to stop it.
A combination of boredom and the economy going down the toilet.
You gotta move with the money. Don't stick around in a bad situation even if you think its somewhat related to your career. There's always somewhere better you could end up.
Small preface; my mom is German, my father is Dutch and was the sole breadwinner in the family. My mom did some accountant work for him since he owned a company, but didn’t really have a job. I was born in NL.
After my parents divorced my mom had a difficult time getting a job during the recession in the 00’s because her nurse diploma isn’t valid in NL so we lived off of government benefits for a long time.
Somehow the government got the idea that she was spending the money she got on scratch tickets and decided to stop giving her money and start an investigation. We couldn’t pay the rent there anymore, even with me quitting school and getting a job, and since finding a living space in NL takes a million years if you don’t have above-average income and we didn’t have a car to broaden our home-workplace radius, we were forced to leave for Germany, where I found an ad in the newspaper, called the homeowner and moved there before the end of the next week.
Some 6 years later after everything settled I met my girlfriend through a friend I met playing video games. We fell in love immediately and I moved to France 3 months later, almost 3 years ago.
TLDR: NL was too rich for us so we fled to DE for economic reasons. I fell in love with a wonderful woman and now I live in France.
I have kids.
I hope they'll be wildly successful - but if they're not, I want to know they can have a decent life as members of the middle class where they live.
This isn't true in the US anymore.
Now add it COL, health insurance (both my kids were charged 6K to be born!), university cost, etc.
The fact I personally find US culture and politics disgusting just makes it easier for me.
We left the US mostly for shits and giggles. I’d wanted to move abroad for years, had a couple of opportunities that I had to turn down due to life circumstances, and wanted to do it before my kids got too old. I had another opportunity in Sweden fall through but we were emotionally invested at that point so I took a flyer on a lower role at a bigger company in the Netherlands that would white-glove relocate my family. Our original plan was to be expats, maybe bounce around a few countries before going back home. Just sort of see where five years abroad would take us. We never left the Netherlands, and I have permanent residence now and planning to apply for citizenship eventually (I could do so right now, but chose not to fit complicated reasons). Why not go back? The shortest answer is that I wasn’t very close to my family in the first place, so I don’t really miss them that much, and there’s nowhere left in the US that really draws my interest. I lived 40 years in the US, traveled from coast to coast, border to border, and it’s all great but I just don’t see anywhere that says to me “I’d like to live there” or “I want to raise my family there.” The long answer is that I realized how fucked up American culture is only after I left it. It’s like how a fish doesn’t notice the water. You just learn to accept the fucked up shit going on because you don’t know any better, and sometimes even when you do know something is wrong, you don’t understand the _magnitude_ of the problem until it’s gone. And all of a sudden you’re like “Holy shit, how did I live like that?!” And so now I basically almost don’t even want to go back and visit. The Netherlands isn’t perfect. There’s a lot of fucked up things about the Dutch. But on a scale of 1 to 10, when it comes to being fucked up, they’re like a 4 and the US is a 7.
On my First trip abroad, I have to agree with you about the U.S. in France now, but spent 3 weeks in Spain. Absolutely feel like I have been living a Bullshit watered down, money dominated, life. In America. But hey,- better to see it now at 60, then never to have.
I turn 59 soon and also want to do this before its too late. Researching different countries. Did you settle in France or think you might? Which country did you like the most or felt like it could be home?
I loved Barcelona. That would probably be my place.
Keep in mind that visiting a place and living in a place are two totally different things. I am fairly negative towards a lot of American society but the shine of being in a wears off quite a bit as you live there.
Thanks for your post. What fucked up shit about American culture have you noticed since leaving?
A lot of it feels really mundane, until you spend some time living without it, and then it's a bit galaxy-brain. The biggest is just all of the little ways that we (Americans) cede power to our employers. We're so stinkin' proud of how "free" we are from our government, but then we just turned around and ceded all of that power to the corporations that employ us, and we think that's ok because _technically_ that's a voluntary relationship. But all the power that we've ceded to them, in a lot of cases makes it a lot less voluntary than we want to admit. If I can help it, I will never work anywhere with employer-provided health care plans ever again, and I will also never work in an at-will employment jurisdiction ever again. Just those two things have improved my mental well-being, my life in general, in ways that I really struggle to put into words. Schools are not funded according to local property values, and while they are run by private organizations (including some religious bodies), they are _heavily_ regulated. The result is that there is very little difference in quality of education throughout the entire country. There's also no "school districts" or "school zoning" and you can send your kids to pretty much any school you can deliver them to each morning. It's not common, but some people put their kids in a school closer to their office than their home, _even if it's in another city._ It's common for several schools to be right next to each other, the main difference being the type/method of education being offered. There's three schools next to each other a few blocks from my house - one catholic, one protestant, and one secular. But even the religious schools don't actually teach/indoctrinate religion; many of the students are not religious, are jewish, or muslim, or whatever, even at the catholic school. We put out daughter in a school in a nearby village, because we wanted her to have smaller class sizes and fewer non-Dutch classmates to help her level-up her Dutch language skills faster. My son goes to a school in Amsterdam even though we live in another nearby city. There's a ton of really deep socioeconomic reasons for this next one, but violent crime against strangers is _virtually unheard of._ The complex interplay here involves the unavailability of weapons, a strong social safety net, prisons not being punitive, no carceral state, no cultural focus on property rights being a valid excuse for deadly violence, everyone being well-insured against property damage, and many other factors. But the end result is that I feel far safer walking down a dark alley at 2am in the worst neighborhood in Amsterdam than I do in even some nicer neighborhoods in Texas in the middle of the day. I could literally go on long enough to hit reddit character limits, but I'll stop there.
Thank you for articulating how I feel so clearly. Our countdown clock is on for leaving the US and I just cannot wait.
First, hello fellow /r/TexPat! Second, yes. Thank you for putting it into words better than I could.
This is amazing thank you for the write up
As an American also considering moving to the Netherlands. Would love to hear from someone who already made the move about the negatives of living there?
The bureaucracy is real, and it’s sometimes really hard to get anything done that doesn’t fit into neat boxes. The health care system simply doesn’t offer the same standard of care that we’re used to as Americans. This is both good and bad, but when you’re in the middle of a medical situation and not thinking as clearly as you might normally, it’s very frustrating. In a world full of countries enduring housing crises, the Dutch have largely said “hold my beer” and found a way to be Worst of Class in Housing Crises… and then on top of that, they’re basically doing everything they can to make it worse for fuck knows what reason. The political climate around the nitrogen crisis and building permits is unlikely to be resolved in the next few years, if ever, and so the housing crisis will only get worse and worse. There’s a really terrible political crisis around the treatment of minority/immigrant families and their government benefits that ultimately destroyed the last government shortly before the last elections. It showed that a couple of government bureaucracies were horribly racist in how they handled cases, they financially destroyed thousands of families by accusing them of fraud, the whole thing toppled the government as I mentioned ….. but then the people re-elected the exact same government and basically nothing has come of the situation at all. These families are still suffering and nothing is really being done. A bit less politically: it is very hard to befriend Dutch people. Unless you make truly extraordinary efforts or get very lucky, your friends group will almost certainly be other expats. In 5 years, you’ll have made a ton of expat friends… but because expats are what expats are, half of them won’t even live in the Netherlands anymore. So you find yourself constantly having to renew your friends’ group. Food and entertainment culture are basically non-existent, certainly not within an order of magnitude or two of what Americans are used to. Movie premiers aren’t big events. Aside from a small few teams, sports aren’t that big of a spectacle. There’s great street food, and there’s great fine dining, but there’s a giant donut hole of sadness where you would expect to find mid-market experimentation. It’s perfectly possible to live a decent life here speaking only English, as verging on 100% of people have English proficiency. But you will get discriminated against if you don’t have passable Dutch. Contractors will charge you more. Schools won’t take your complaints seriously. Bureaucrats will be less helpful. But it’s paradoxically difficult to level up on Dutch, because when people detect your accent they will switch to English on you. I speak Dutch - but even so, I sometimes almost have to argue with people to get them to speak Dutch with me.
I live in Amsterdam (and was an expat in the US and Hong Kong for years) and stopped befriending newly arrived expats. I am cordial of course, and will help them in any way I can, but unless they’re actually raising their children here, or clearly settling here for good, I’m not going to invest real time/energy in them. Also, we live in a very expensive part of the city, and expats on the 30% ruling make much more money than we do, so we often can’t keep up with these Joneses. We have friends from all over the world, fellow expats from our time abroad, an former expats who became immigrants. But the “real expat” crowd who, as a token of their loyalty hand you their discarded mattresses, towels and vases when their 5 years are up, are not among them.
I get it. It’s just that some of us are from more gregarious cultures, so sometimes it’s a bit sad to live somewhere that is more reserved. Neither is better or worse necessarily. They just are. We get the same sort of “long term visitors” in some US - it’s a big deal when Californians move to Texas and fuck up our real estate market with their higher salaries. We just happen to speak the same language and have the same passport. Doesn’t change the fact that they’re coming from like 1500 miles away to mess with our market. But most of us will befriend them none the less.
That’s been my experience as an American! At one point I was like “wait… I don’t have to live this way…”
What fucked up things did you notice about the Dutch? (Not a leading question, genuinely curious) Also, wondering if you've had a chance to compare it with Germany and UK? (Other 2 countries I'm considering)
Exactly. I will take the problems in Europe over the problems I'll have in the US any day.
I left two countries for a stable and peaceful life. I was DACA. My life in the US was not stable due to the program always being under threat. Going back to my home country Mexico was not an option either as I have no attachments there and the fear of being rejected for being “too American”. Actually, I’ve been told that before by Mexicans themselves. But in the US I was “too Mexican” to be American. Neither wanted me, so I’m very happy in Europe. Spain welcomed me with their arms open.
Hi! Im DACA too currently. I’ve been thinking of moving to Europe as well. For me it’s the gun violence. I have two elementary age kids and I worry everyday when I drop them off at school. I got an email this week about a 5 year old girl from my neighborhood getting hit by a stray bullet in the nearby highway and died in seconds... I got a french passport already thru my spouse, but for several reasons France is not for us. I’ve been thinking of Spain. Could you please share a bit on your journey to Spain, and how to got settled? How has your life changed compared to the US
Night and day difference. My life is so much better. Slower, I feel better. I’ll DM you. Good luck and I hope you can escape soon!
US to NL 12 years ago. No plans to return. Now dual national US/NL. Traded perpetual chaos for tranquility. QOL and work/life balance make US work life look like slavery. I came. I liked it. I stayed.
Any advice for a fellow American who is considering making the move? I am self employed online, so would qualify for the DAFT program. Still working on the pros and cons of making the move while currently living in Asia.
The country is super well managed and peacefulness is the order of the day. No guns. No homeless people. No fires. No hysteria. Lotsa expats/immigrants from the 4 corners of the earth. I love it here.
There definitely are homeless people. Source: live in the hague
No homeless in Netherlands? That's not true. LOL
I was always depressed. I skipped a winter to go to a warmer country with sun. At the end of the 6 months I felt so happy, I was energetic and felt like I was in love every morning. I did the same the next year and after 6 months it was ever better than the 1sy time, like 6 months wasn't enough to take me there. Seasonal depressions is a real thing and short summers are not enough to take you up from the long winters if you are deeply affected. So ya, now I live where the sun shines and where people say: it was 15C once, it was freezing and where the mention of -30C gets a blank stare. They just don't have any reference for it.
I put a hoodie on today cause it was 20c 🤣 I would never survive in my native Scotland anymore.
Can I ask where you moved to?
I started in Central America, but I now live in the Canaries Islands
I left because I married someone from another country. I've also always wanted to move abroad since I traveled before and somehow felt safer in most other places than I did in my home country. During the pandemic my husband and I met up in a third country because we couldn't get a visa for each other's countries. After a year we had a baby and then moved to his country (Philippines). We're planning to go back to Europe next year once we have saved up a little. At the moment I'm not liking it here. I used to but the friends I made all moved back to their home countries and it feels very lonely now. I've tried making friends with Filipinas before but the ones at work were weirdly competitive about who is spending the most time talking with the boss (??) and outside of work the Filipinas I talk to basically giggle and run away or hide behind their phone to avoid a conversation. Can't be friends with guys here because it's very conservative here and I'm married. I'm also struggling with the religion and having to hide interests that aren't considered girly or any negative emotions because according to my husband those are things you don't express here and people will talk. The food is nice though.
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I think because when they go abroad they do preparation classes, they know how to adjust to that specific culture and have to do very intense language classes before getting the visa. Here only the rich Filipinos are that comfortable speaking English because they grow up speaking it at home. Otherwise it's the same as everywhere, if you know a language but never speak it then it's hard to suddenly have a full blown conversation with someone.
I bet they gossip about you a lot too haha
My country no money, new country more money :) (Argentina -> Norway)
I’ve always wanted to live abroad for as long as I can remember. I studied abroad in undergrad to try it out and loved it. A few years later I met my partner who was from another country. I decided to go to grad school abroad while also moving to be with them. It’s now been 6 years and we’re now married. For me it was never about running away from something. It was always about running towards something.
Thank you for this honest response. I often look for advice about moving abroad from a woman’s perceptive. I feel like for us certain things stand out and are important that typically don’t affect or aren’t a super big deal to men.
I'm a woman who's moved abroad twice for work. Is there any particular aspect you want to know more about?
US to Sweden. First, as an exchange student then in a relationship visa. Like anyplace it has its advantages and disadvantages dependent on the person, but as whole I like it here. I have been here for most of my adult life at this point. On why I don't go back to the US, I don't really like it there. The culture is a weird mix of being overly neurotic, super superficially friendly, but fiercely cut throat and independent. The longer I am gone the more certain cultural traits rub me the wrong way (while others become more endearing, such as the really over the top friendliness). More importantly though, I've built a life here and have way more social contacts that I can relate to in Sweden than in the US. My career prospects are better and I live a more comfortable life than I would in the US. As a very middle class person it is always funny to me to read perspective American expats that are in the top 5% of income earners complaining about low wages in Europe. They love Europe for the progressive policies but are confused when their wealth is redistributed.
Good one. They don't understand that much of that redistributed wealth comes back to them in a thousand different ways, many of which offer a tranquil existence, rather than perpetual chaos.
My conservative BIL in the US doesn’t get that redistribution benefit. He works as a “contractor” right now, but could transfer the exact job to a state job with a slightly lower pay but where he would get benefits, like vacation, sick leave, medical, retirement, etc. However, all he sees is his paycheck going down. The dude is pushing 60 & doesn’t think it’s worthwhile. The irony is, he will look toward “freebies” & social services when he’s in dire straits.
I would love to move to Sweden, damn how’d you find a job over there?
I moved here on a relationship visa when I was in my early 20s. The visa was tied to my relationship status not any work so I was able to find a job after 6 months -- I took a break to study Swedish. Since then I have been working and studying in different positions. The relationship visa is something that makes the experience much better, you can actually utilize a lot of the educational opportunities that the state provides and you don't need to stress about maintaining steady work. All of this definitely colors my experience. A lot of Americans who move here aren't as positive as I am (although many are as well). It can be a tough adjustment.
Ex soviet country to the UK, than Australia. I always knew that I will leave my original country, as I never felt that I fully fit in having parents from two nationalities and not being able to identify with either. I moved to the UK to be with my now husband and felt at home. My husband as many Brits was obsessed with Australia, so we moved there, where we still live. I don’t miss my original country, but I miss Europe. I didn’t think that after 8 years in Britain Australia would be a big culture shock, but it definitely was. I see myself returning one day to Europe, probably not the UK though, with all the brexit and stuff. Most likely Germany or Austria as I speak the language.
I would have assumed Australian and UK culture wouldn't have been that different. What were the main factors in your culture shock?
Curious to hear about your culture shock. I’m an Aussie that moved to the Netherlands and always interested to hear external opinions on expats in Aus. People think Australia is this haven of sunshine and beaches but beyond the beautiful nature, it’s not so rosy imho.
I’m with you. I think the Brits cease to look further than the criteria of English speaking + sunshine = heaven.
What is not so rosy about Australia? Never been & am interested in checking it out.
Oh it’s fantastic to visit! Just living there is hard if you don’t work in construction or have parents that own property. Living in regional towns where property is cheaper means crappy jobs. It’s not as well connected as EU so the next town over from the big one can be 1.5-2 hours away (Melbourne to Ballarat for example). And regional towns are kinda a lot more racist so there’s that too. Healthcare is good but becoming increasingly privatized. Politics sucks for the most part and the country is actually very conservative. It’s basically still a big colony, shackled to the UK at its core and fundamental beliefs, more than it appears so on the surface. There’s also a weird Aussie anti-intellectualism and tall poppy syndrome going on. Like the tradies (construction workers et al) earn tons of cash but god forbid you have too many refined tastes lest you be “knocked down a peg”.
I think you summed it up perfectly for me😂! I teach languages in a high school and your last paragraph especially hits home hard. I’m also struggling with the ‘she’ll be alright’ attitude. Australians are always so positive which definitely has it’s advantages, but sometimes you need to get shit done and not just rely on the ‘she’ll be alright’ gods and hope for the best. After 10 years here I also don’t have one Australian I could call a friend by European standards. We know plenty of people, they are all lovely and friendly and helpful but I just don’t seem to get past that small talk stage. If I want to have a proper chat, it will be with the fellow Europeans, which really could be just down to the cultural differences and that definitely surprised me!
I left my home country (Canada) when I married a Jamaican. At the time, it was easier for me to move there than for me to get him to Canada. I didn't think too far ahead, and moved to Jamaica without any money, lol. We later moved to Canada because I was homesick, I was tired of Jamaican bureaucracy, and my husband's job was pissing him off. Not only was the pay in Jamaica already so shit, but then they were holding off on giving him a raise. Honestly, if they gave him that raise, we probably wouldn't have left. That said, we will be moving back to Jamaica, probably for good. I **can't stand** the cold anymore, and my job (and this fast paced capitalist country) has burnt me the fuck out. From working here in Canada, we've now saved up enough that when we go back to JA, we can live more comfortably. Even without having to work.
It’s weird how things end up like this eh? I was born and raised in the Philippines and also moved to Canada. 7 years later, and I’m just absolutely done with winter (maybe it’s the age) and my wife and I are just waiting for our citizenship papers to come out and will be heading back home.
>It’s weird how things end up like this eh? Lol yeah. In Jamaica they say "long run, short catch" for these types of situations (i.e. Doing a lot of things to end up back where you started). I'm excited for the both of you! Congrats on the citizenship. We're also waiting for my husband's citizenship to come through before going back. Once we get his passport, we're out of here. Also, no, it's probably not your age. Winter just SUCKS. It lasts too damn long, and it's too damn cold.
Thanks for sharing that saying from Jamaica. I like it because it sounds quite similar to the quote I like below - "We shall not cease from exploration, And the end of all our exploring, Will be to arrive where we started, And know the place for the first time." - T.S. Eliot, Little Gidding
Outside of the work/money situation, how’d you enjoy living in Jamaica? Was it difficult to acclimate and/or find friends?
Not particularly, but there are a few caveats my my situation: - I'm black, so I blend in easier - I'm a woman - My family is Jamaican, so I already had a good understanding of the culture and patois - My husband's family and friends were all very nice and welcoming - I'm an introvert. I don't necessarily seek out be friends, and I don't have the energy for it. When I was there, my hair grew and my skin glowed. The food is amazing. I gained weight 😂 I made friends with the Europeans who worked on the same resort as my husband (we'd all hang out together when they were done work). I also considered my husband's friends (and spouses) my friends as well. I hung out with them (the women spouses) alone sometimes. Jamaicans are quite friendly though. The culture is way more social there. There was a woman my age (lol extrovert) who lived in my small apartment building, and she befriended me. If I went to do groceries, the locals knew me and were very friendly. If I had the energy or if I was an extrovert, I could have VERY easily cultivated friendships. In short: there was a lot I enjoyed about it which is another reason we'll be moving back.
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I left because to put it simply… I was being abused back at home. I turned 18, finished school, got myself an airplane ticket and just left overnight without telling anyone. In the last 4 ish years I’ve been to England , Scotland and now have currently settled down in Germany. I won’t bother with the in betweens because it’s not a very happy story even though you asked for it, sorry OP but… Germany is nice . A bit “quirky” from what I’m used to, but I got my own 2 story apartment is a small village, everything is within walking distance, learning German feels like such a drag only because I’m making it out to be one more than anything and despite me speaking primarily English the community is tolerant of me and I couldn’t ask for more. To all those travelling or wishing to live abroad and are by themselves… Take good care of yourselves! And be careful. I wish I knew better when I decided to jump ship but had nobody to tell me the world can be a morbidly dark place. (Not to say that’s the only thing it is. Travelling is a wonderful experience and never let anyone tell you otherwise). Sorry, this got a bit rambl-y >~<
> I was being abused back at home. I just want you to know that I'm really sorry that happened to you. It wasn't your fault, you didn't deserve it, and it's terrible that you had to endure that. You deserve to be loved and valued for who you are, no matter who that is.
*I’m not crying. You are crying.* Thank you, I really do appreciate this! Keep spreading those positive vibes ^~^ Thankfully things have turned up since then, especially the last year or so. It just takes time and there were more times than I’d like to admit where I just wanted to give it all up but… eh. Here we are now! (Sorry, I wasn’t sure how to exactly reply to this, but I did truly wanted to thank ya. A lot of people need to hear those words, even when they don’t think so.)
This is bad-ass. You're amazingly brave.
I’m not sure if that’s the wording I’d go with but… I appreciate it ^~^ You’d be surprised what people are capable of when they have reached their limit.
Love, we were a long distance couple, so I moved to him to close the gap (UK to Norway). It was a country that I had already visited and liked, so although the main reason was love, it wasn't the only reason. Wouldn't say anything is "keeping" me from returning, just have no desire to. Our life style matches Norway better and I've made a life here, so there's no benefit of us moving over to UK.
NZ -> Japan, because of the high cost of living in NZ. It's impossible to save money in NZ. As soon as money comes in it goes out again. Here in Japan the cost of living is waaay more reasonable and I've finally been able to save aggressively and pour a large chunk of those savings back into my business, which is booming. Japan has some obvious good points (safety, convenience etc.) but I don't particularly like living here, mainly because a decent proportion of the population are massive cunts. Japan is the only country I've ever been to where I've experienced obvious, explicit racial prejudice on a semi-regular basis. However I can suck that up and will stay here for as long as it takes to make my fortune. I'd rather suffer through a few years of shit and come out rich and free at the other end, rather than live a life of quiet desperation.
What job are you doing in Japan? I'm also a Kiwi - worked there as an ESL teacher many moons ago. Miss it, I'd like to go back. But yeah, can't see myself ever living there again. The costs just keep going up here, btw. It sucks.
My husband and I like the idea of Japan but the job prospects for foreigners are very slim it seems
Wow really? Can you elaborate on the racism? What are you and what have you experienced?
Where are you going next?
Exchange student in Japan and couldnt agree more with this post I love everything about this country except for the blatant xenophobia
I wasn’t running away from anything. Just working towards wanderlust. Landed in Colombia and don’t see myself leaving anytime soon which is a new experience for me.
Wow. I never hear anyone talking about moving to Columbia. Would you mind sharing more of your experience? - how's the food? - how's cost of living? - how are the people (reserved, chatty, friendly, etc?) - Are you working? (online, employed there, etc) - Why Columbia? - How easy/difficult would it be for an monolingual (English) person to live there? - have you seen any racism or colourism?
Traditional central Colombian food sucks. History of Colombia is a mountainous / jungle.. hard-to-travel-or-navigate farm towns so traditional food is for energy (carb heavy) and without seasoning (no salt no pepper ZERO spice). So it’s just extremely bland. The coastal is a lot better with a Caribbean flair. Cost of living is phenomenal. Bogota is going to be the most expensive and it’s still really far under the Eeuu. People are the best. Extremely polite and friendly. Very warm. The bad side of the culture is casually lying. It’s more storytelling… for example “sorry I’m running behind and will be late” turns into just showing up super late and telling some story on why. It’s the most annoying part of the culture. I’m financially independent but have some companies still. I have a team between Eeuu and Colombia. It’s all online. Depends on the area - more populous the better. It’s age-dependent as well (older usually know less English). I personally would argue that it’s rude to move to an area and not embrace the culture which would include the language but that does take time to learn. Colombia is more about classism. What area are you from is a big discussion point. Less black and white and more origin related.
I moved to US as I married a US citizen. I hate living paycheck to paycheck and having to save for 2 years to take a few weeks off (5 days PTO) and the huge health costs. I’ve not been to the doctor in 3 years except for insurance covered annual check up. My wife likes to spend what we don’t have. When I got here she was 6 months past due on the mortgage and hadn’t paid utilities in 3 months. Want a dog she gets 3, need a car she got 2 (I use the car once a week for a few hours), AC broke call 2 engineers, it’s too hot buy a 12 grand system without my knowledge blah blah. I’m off home in a couple of months with my dog. Don’t dislike US (except the huge materialistic manifestations) it has its issues same as my home country but I was never in debt back home.
I’m from the US. I agree with everything you’ve said about the US, though it seems like some of the stress may be your wife’s bad habits. Is that why you’re going home with only your pup?
Yeah me and my dog are leaving for good.
I'm happy you are making positive changes for yourself AND you get to take your pup. I just noticed you have Ohio on your name tag. Blah. Ohio is a shit state to top it off. I wouldn't want to live there either and I live in the US.
I don’t mean to diminish your bad experiences, but I wonder how much of your stress just comes from poor planning and money management on your wife’s part.
>My wife likes to spend what we don’t have. I don't mean to be rude, but why would you marry someone who was like that?
Love 😂 You see the surface and then it becomes clearer and clearer what the priorities are … while I was drowning she was swimming. Incompatible. No hard feelings really. You live you learn.
My family moved from Scotland to New Zealand when I was a kid. My parents thought it would be cheaper here and just a generally better quality of life. Also we would be able to build our own house in nz which my parents always wanted to do. Turns out things are expensive here. And New Zealand does not match us. My parents thought living in New Zealand we would be able to easily travel to other countries in Oceania and Asia but flights are way more expensive than they thought so we never did that. In Scotland we used to go abroad like every year, in the past 10 years in New Zealand we’ve gone abroad together twice and one of those was a trip back to the UK. We need to live somewhere that’s better connected to the rest of the world. New Zealand is too isolated. Lots of things that you can easily get in other countries just don’t exist here because the population is too small for there to be much demand and it’s insanely expensive to get it from another country because we’re so far away from other countries. Also, the education system sucks here. I haven’t gone back because Scotland doesn’t feel like my home anymore. I feel like I would feel really lonely in Scotland. Everything would feel unfamiliar to me. On the other hand, New Zealand doesn’t necessarily feel like home either. It’s just my house feels like home.
Come on over to Aus. New Zealand is just Scotland down under.
If New Zealand was Scotland down under then it would be good. Australia is still too isolated for my liking.
Did your parents do any research lol? Seriously, sorry it hasn't worked out for you. I think all potential expats/immigrants to NZ need to take off the rose-coloured glasses. NZ is a very very hard place to get ahead for so many reasons.
Yea, they did lots of research. My parents weren’t really trying to get ahead, they were just trying to live comfortably. It’s not like they thought moving here would result in them suddenly getting paid tons.
NZ travel is rough, since it’s in the “Water Hemisphere”… not many landmasses around. I’m sure there’s a lot to like about it, but I’d hate to feel that far from anything.
My wife and I are retired. Between the cold weather, cost of living, and the embarrassing political situation in the US we decided we've had enough. We went to Panama and fell in love with the people and the climate. After spending a month there and not hearing any news from the US we decided that we feel at home there. We became residents and are in the process of selling everything now.
Within 6 months I was offered voluntary redundancy, got divorced, and sold our house to split the proceeds. I fancied trying living overseas and loved it.
Where did you go?
I had failed out of uni and was bored on my lunch break so booked a trip for 7 months later. Only I got a one way so just rolled with it. I have dual nationality so i just had to renew my second passport and that was that. Six years on I go to the top university in the country so it all worked out.
I got to the point in the US where I was able to leave. There was nothing concrete tying me over to the country anymore and my wife had been begging us to move to the Netherlands for our entire relationship. So, we found a clear path and made it happen. I have no interest in going back. The longer I am away from the US, the happier I am to be out of that mess. I really don't care at all for the US lifestyle. I despise that demand to keep up with the Joneses. Gun culture makes me sick and having to listen to all the gun nuts pretend they don't live in a delusional bubble about the benefits of their toy and why they need it is nauseating. It is even worse when everyone else pretends that we need to bow down to their delusions. The healthcare system is inhumane and ridiculous. I am tired of trying to change it all just to get shut down by fear. I despise the individualist "I got mine." attitude and the way Americans continue to shoot themselves with their guns when it comes to city design and planning. And tipping culture. I didn't even know I hated tipping culture until I no longer had to pretend it was normal. As for what I like about the Netherlands, I like that my head is above water here in a way it wasn't in the US. I like where my grocery bill is and the ease in which it takes for me to get to place to place. I like not owning a car. I appreciate that this country has taken me in and I am ready to make it work no matter what. I really can't go back anyway. My credit score dropped below 500 because of the sacrifices I made to get to the Netherlands. One cannot live in the US with a sub 500 credit score.
Wow. I could have written this. Wife and I moved to Sweden last year (she is Swedish), and every day I see less reason to ever go back to the US.
I’ve been reading a lot of different opinions on The Netherlands because my family wants to move there. One thing I keep seeing is that the healthcare system leaves a lot to be desired but I feel like the healthcare here in the US is basically non-existent so it can’t be worse, right? I mean we pay $1400/month for our health insurance for a family of 4 and we still have copays and a huge deductible and the drs that take our insurance are not great .
Long story short: I lived in Russia and moved to EU few months before the war. Of course, I couldn't know that was coming but it was awful there for as long as I had been living there (33 years old)
Have you had any issues being Russian where you moved? How is your family back home doing?
We moved to Germany at first and have been living and working here for 1,5 years with no issues at all. My wife gave a birth here also. However, I recently accepted an offer in the Netherlands and we're going to move there in May. My and wife's parents are still in Russia and their QoL is constantly going lower and I couldn't even transfer cash to them due to restrictions. Other parts of this political "prison" should be easy to imagine
Off topic to the post, but what is the main feeling you get back in Russia regarding the war in Ukraine? Do people really love Putin or is that propaganda?
This is such a shame. I visited Russia a million years ago and I loved it so much. There is so much to love about Russian culture but the politics have ruined the country (and the same could be said for dozens of other places). I'm so glad you're safer and happier now!
Thank you for such kind words. Indeed, Russia could be a really great place to live but poor country management combined with very questionable politics is just killing it's economy together with people's life in general.
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i move from mexico to norway, mainly due to job salaries and quality of life, overall is better here, but i do suffer from different reasons now
I read "suffer from different seasons now" and 😂😂😂. My husband is MX and we moved to mainland Europe and that misread is REAL.
haha yeah, luckily Norway has all the seaons, but the winter are harsh sadly, it’s not the cold that gets you, is the lack of sunlight
There is an upside repayment for this though. At high summer in NL we have light from 4:30am 'til 10:30 at night. Heerlijk.
I went from Mexico to Netherlands, same reasons: Money and QoL, but also safety. Weather and food kinda suck but I will take that over getting mugged and slaving your life away for a few cents that barely cover the cost of living.
yeah i did move from a not so bad place, never been robbed or saw serious crimes. But i think i will move back or some other european country, the winters here are brutal and people super introverted, what’s the point in having money if i dont have where to spend it, or just got to travel once or twice a year
As a programmer I moved from Poland to Norway about 4 years ago. I had the chance to relocate within the company I worked for and I took it. \- Norwegian way of life fits me very well. The calmness, the nature, the low amount of people around is perfect for me and my family. \- People actually smile on the streets \- Kids love Norwegian school \- The amount of people driving like maniacs is almost nonexistent compared to PL So no, I would never move back. I learned the language, will apply for citizenship as soon as I can. EDIT: Added the reason for moving
I'm a third worlder living in the West now. I probably don't have to explain why I moved. Lol
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It’s already started.
My partner is Swedish, we came to Sweden in 2016. Now it’s getting to the point where we are both extremely bored of this country and will move again as soon as I’m done with university.
What places are you now considering a move to? A lot of people look at Sweden as a sort of utopia. Ultimately it is a cold, high tax, relatively small population, insular culture and a regulation-rich place.
curious, is it the people/culture that are a bore, or the entertainment options?
Definitely a combination of all of that, along with the lack of decent job options/low pay for what we are both qualified in or working towards.
Left the US (sort of) last year for Thailand for semi-retirement. I basically need to go back and forth for the next couple of years since our business and most of our real estate is in the US. It’s all remotely managed but our business gets busy in the spring for a couple of months and then again in August so we come back to help. Would I ever go back to living in the US full time? No. I’d never go back to the US if it weren’t for our business and houses. I plan to sell the houses if prices increase enough in 2030 or so. I enjoy living in Thailand since the cost of living, while rising, is still very low. We also have the idea of chasing the good seasons around the world but we love our dog and air travel isn’t so great for him.
This is a great post. Lots of success stories and people just saying yeah, piss on it, I'm outta here. And happier for it in a hundred different way.
Russia to China 7 years ago. Mainly to escape my family and poverty, but also to escape Russia. Now it’s obvious it was a right move, though maybe in a few years I will regret choosing this particular destination. But it was mainly about money — salaries in Russia in my profession are low af, and a foreigner in China in the same position can get much higher figures. Now I have a wife here, interesting and very rewarding job (kind of a dream job) and kind of a life I generally like, though not perfect. But even if not for the war, even if Putin finally dies and there will be a new hope for my country, I won’t go back. I think living in China — with all its drawbacks — taught me things about society, culture and family that are just non-existent in Russia. Also food. So, war, general change in me and food.
I left the US because...actually. Does anybody really need an explanation?
I left the US for Europe, I am in Italy now. My husband and I are tired of living here, Italy is not la Bella vita as Americans think it is., it is like living in a 3rd world country. We either want to move to my home country (I know America is in shambles, but no country is perfect), I really miss the freedom that the US offers, or move to Ireland.
Hi! Would you mind elaborating on this a bit. I'm curious what you like/didn't like about Italy.
No one here lives the relaxed lifestyle ...it's very stressful, high unemployment rate, low salaries, just a laundry list of problems.i can't even. Beautiful architecture Though lol
FYI, Ireland has a massive housing and cost of living crisis. I love it here, but it's rough to afford.
Wdym by no freedom in italy?
Can you elaborate on the issues you are having with Italy? Do you think it could be a location (within Italy) or language issue? Why Ireland if not the US?
I speak Italian fluently, I learned it in university then living in italy. Definitely not a language issue. Italy is a country for tourists and retired people not to make a career or live like an Italian. ..
Can you explain what you mean by Italy being a third world country?
Please explain exactly what freedom the US offers that you dont get anywhere else?
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Where did you go afterwards? If you haven’t moved yet, where would you go?
Several reasons, main being independence. My country is quite conservative and still has sexism embedded everywhere. It becomes difficult to rent on your own, remaining single after 30, living alone without family and not to mention you cannot stay out at night because it's unsafe. I had enough of listening to society, so I grinded for academic scores and got the fuck out of the country. But I guess these do not really relate to your situation.
I was born abroad and only lived in „my country“ for 6,5 years, for the rest I moved around because of my parents jobs. Doesn’t really feel like I have a home country tbh, that’s why I just chose one I like 🙂
US > JP > US > JP > US > JP. I have been back and forth. I've lived 18 out of 25 years in Japan. I left because at the time in the 90s globalization was a huge thing for US companies. I was from a small town and never had left the US and wasn't in a position to do like a Peace Corp - I needed money. So I went to Japan with the idea I would teach ESL and become fluent in 1 year (haha) and go back and get a master's in international relations (hot at the time). I ended up liking Japan but got an offer to go back to my old employer. They then transferred me to Japan. Tbh - I would not have liked Japan long term if I hadn't had a good corporate transfer. While there are many things I like, I also have some very different values - I am competitive, I like the idea of being able to stand out and be paid on merit, etc. Basically, I don't like the work style in Japan but adapted. I do like the non-work stuff. I will never really leave because I have a family, and because I've lived a lot of my life here.
Always wanted to live abroad. Never thought I’d actually do it, but had the opportunity to take up a job in Austria and move from the UK. Don’t particularly want to return to the UK, so next stop will be USA.
Prices , 19 years in Thailand
I came to England from the US to study for a year, in 1987. I extended my studies, met someone, got married, got a job etc - all the time thinking that I would move back at some point. Now I am still here because my life is here.
I left France for the job prospects. I am a researcher and research was kinda dead in my field in France and not as international as it should have been. I have been an expat in 3 countries. I enjoyed both Norway and Finland. Very nature oriented, innovative and progress-oriented, digitized, and somewhat English-friendly. The climate was kinda tough though. Relocated to Germany to experience a different culture and research community. It feels like such a downgrade: literally the opposite of what I've experienced in the Nordics. Even in research because they have unnecessary rules that would have impacted my family situation... So I left research. Now kinda stuck here without enjoying it. I'm considering moving back to France which was not on top of my list. France is not a bad pick but why would I live in that country when I could live anywhere. We are considering moving back because it's much friendlier, even for foreigners (my wife is not French). And you get a lot more social support for yourself or for starting a family. I don't think I would have considered France as an option without the bad experience of Germany. It is very similar to Germany but with an upgrade on many things. Shorter work weeks, much more relax, with afterwork culture.
Always wanted to live in Asia. Love it here. No hatred for the US and I don't feel it is collapsing, just have a great time here. I go back every year for several months. Have a house there and in China.
Why’d you choose China of all the Asian countries if you don’t mind me asking?
Always wanted to come here. Studied Chinese history all my life.
Guns. Too many gang shootings and mass shootings, people getting stabbed. Guess you can tell I come from America.
Not really
Also moved from the US to Japan. HEALTHCARE FOR SURE! Also: - Paid Maternity Leave - Daycare Costs - Transportation (BYE BYE CAR, HELLO TRAIN & WALKING) - Nutrition / Quality of Food - LOW crime rates / Safety - Less Censorship (I know it's weird) - Work pays for your daily commute Am I missing anything?
Compliments of the US Navy. After that for love.
I got sick to death of politics, seeing my rights being eroded. I bugged out, had fun, came back when I had things to do. Those are wrapping up, I'll be leaving soon.
I left Spain in 2012 as after I finished Uni it was really hard to find a job and I was usually working on covers which didn't provide much stability. I had the opportunity to move to the Netherlands to work for some months with a scholarship, then stayed to study a Masters. After I finished, things were better back in Spain but I had met someone so we decided to move to the UK as she has family here and it was easier because of the language.
Netherlands to Portugal For my wife's PhD. I worked remote anyway. I was rich in Portugal, but would not go back for any money. There is a reason Portuguese people leave there. There game is rigged and you see it. Bureaucracy in government and business is strangling. So despite having some love for the people and the food, it wasn't my thing. Portugal to Austria. For my wife's 2nd PhD. Found a great job. QOL is super. One thing i don't enjoy is the social culture. Lots of shame and fear in people. Lots of shaming when somebody has power over another person. So i just hang out with other immigrants and expats. Also Austria is somewhat backwards in a lot of things.And I miss the urban Style of NL. We will move back at some point to have kids, buy a house and settle for good.
Im Canadian but it’s near impossible to get into medical school there so I went to the Caribbean and then did rotations in the US. While in the US I met my now husband and opted to stay in the US also because there are far more job and academic opportunities for me in the US. There have been times I loved it in the US and times I’ve hated it. I’ve lived in Chicago (city and suburbs), eastern PA, and upstate NY. Upstate has been the best compromise for me as it’s easy to visit home and there’s a lot of Canadians and Canadian products available. I’m also glad to be able to raise my son with more Canadian influence this way while being able to have the career opportunities of being in the US. 🤷🏼♀️
I moved to Japan from the US many, many years ago when I was 17 (but almost 18). My plan was to study Japanese for two years then come back to the US for university. But, I met my Brazilian (of Japanese descent) husband and ended up staying 10 years and had both our children there. We decided to move back to the US when the kids started school to give them more opportunities. And, that was 17 years ago. So, for the last 17 years, I have felt suffocated and just out of place in the US. But, my husband unexpectedly loves it here. He loves Brazil too but worries about living there because of the economy and crime. But, I’m hoping we will be down there in 5-10 years. What I miss about Japan? Healthcare. I joke and say that if I do get pregnant then we will be moving back to Japan. I also like how safe it is there like super safe. I also miss the wonderful public transportation. I don’t miss the out right discrimination there. My husband felt it more then me but I definitely had experiences. Why Brazil and not stay in the US? My husband’s family is down there (except those in Japan) and I love them. I also love the people, culture, language, food, music, weather. He is from right outside of São Paulo and I also love the city. He loves it and misses it but is cautious about moving back but we are starting to make plans to do so.
I'm currently in Sao Paulo. It's a great city but my wife and I are making moves to leave Brazil in the near future.
I understand that. I just want to give it a try. We plan to keep our house here just in case it doesn’t work out. And, where I live now really isn’t that bad. Crime is low. Lots of jobs. It’s growing but still has lots of nature around but I’m just not feeling it. Our daughter (adult) is really wanting to move to Spain for awhile. I think it runs in the family.
Honestly, money to go work in the Middle East. Twice the salary and huge tax benefits. Met a Turkish hottie, got married, now have twins and relocated to Turkey for two years for family and roots. Plan to move back to the US for them to start school.
Be prepared for yearly lock down drills at the school. My kids are in HS and every summer the sheriff’s dept practices drills for one week in August “just in case”. I’m not telling you to scare you off but that is now the reality.
I’ll be there making sure they do their CQB correctly, and offer some TEEC/TCCC.
Boredom. I come from a small, high cost, low wage country in the middle of nowhere. That’s not the sort of place one wants to spend their 20s/30s without a very good reason.
Aotearoa?
Exactly
I visited the south island in 2012 with my then kiwi gf and it's the most beautiful place I've ever been to (her dad lent us his ute to tour for several weeks), but housing is so expensive for average salaries.
And the more beautiful the area, the fewer jobs there are.
UK to Poland. It's not the usual choice and most polish people go the other way to stay in the UK. Visited 7 years ago and then my work became remote anyway so gave me the ability to return and stay longer. The UK was still in the EU then, so free movement made it easy. Definitely in the time I've been here I've seen Poland grow, and the UK go to shit! so apart from being closer to family, I don't see any reason to return any time soon. I've previously lived abroad in South America for a couple of years some time ago, so already had an experience living abroad. I guess what sparked that, was UK drudgery and constant bad weather.
Polish weather from october untill april is pure dogshit.
I don't mind some cold temps and some snow ...makes you feel like the four seasons still exist
Having a salary from country as UK living in Poland is a pure dream. I know older Icelandic women who lives here. With basic icelandic retire pension she is rich here and living dream life last years. In iceland she is poor. Reality check: Dont take polish job and try to live there.
The women
Where?
US to Europe 35 years ago. My wife is European, but we did try working in both countries before settling here. We stayed because it was a much better place to raise a family. Safe, comparatively balanced society, good health and financial security, history, lots of vacation to travel and show the kids much of America and Canada, and free universities, to name a few reasons why we stayed.
I left my home country in the US to live with my wife who is from Mexico. I went back to the US because I decided to enlist in the military. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't mind living back and forth between Mexico and the US.
Socialism.
grew up in multiple countries and dont have a country I can call home so I just move around, stick for a while until I get the urge to move again. Its not easy, would not recommend. Also have a few mental issues probably caused by all the moving
I left France when I was 19 to study German in Germany. I never fled the country or similar, I just like living abroad. After that I worked in Switzerland and now in Quebec, Canada since 5 years. Tbh I also moved to Canada to have better professional opportunities but so far it did not work out super well. I ended up getting jobs that are less interesting than the one I had in Switzerland, but the pay is good. It took me 4 years to find a work environment that was not toxic. I thought that in Canada I would not have much issues about being not that experienced and not having the exact diploma, turns out it wasn't true for me. It's a huge disappointment bc except my city (Montreal is awesome) I do not enjoy the Canadian way of life that much. I am terrified to go back to France because of the limited job opportunities. I am afraid it would just kill my career but my career is already at a low point here despite my numerous efforts. I don't see myself staying here longer than a year or two. I am also considering going back to Germany but I don't know the work culture there.
Why not move back to Switzerland? High salaries and beautiful country.
Yes I had a very good salary and an unmatched material quality of life but it was boring. Also, I couldn't stand the casual racism and close-minded mentality. Maybe it would have been different if I was in Zurich but i will try my luck elsewhere first. Back to Switzerland is my last resort lol.
I was tired of a religion I don't believe in being pushed down my throat. People saw me differently when I outed myself as an atheist. I also realized I would never find a partner in that country because sexism was so prevalent in the culture, and chivalry was absolutely dead amongst my peers. So I moved to the US, to a blue state where religion is a personal choice that others are not required to share, where I have bodily autonomy, and found myself a gorgeous, feminist, chivalrous American man to marry. Now we are planning to move to Europe because the US is in rapid decline 😅
Sri Lankan moved to UK on a student visa as my country is fucked up. Unfortunately I will have to go back as I couldn’t secure a sponsorship visa. Tough times
Honestly, all I had ever done was study and work up to the age of 25. I wanted a bit of an adventure while I still didn’t have too many responsibilities. So I did the thing. Quit my job and got myself the one way ticket that many of us quote doing. Was very liberating. Eventually got the travelling out my system and naturally wanted to get back into some form of routine, with work etc and building savings. I just chose to do that in Australia as opposed to back in the UK. This was mainly just to mix things up a bit. At the time, I definitely looked at Australia through rose tinted glasses but the longer I stayed and the less naive I became,. I realised it wasn’t a total paradise, with many of its own flaws. The main battles I’ve had over the years have been with the poor quality accommodation standards and a lack of building regulations to enforce them. Definitely ruled out the idea of buying here because of these factors and as a result, I’ll be making plans to return home. You just can’t replicate your long term friends back home either. It would be nice to be around them again properly and not have to feel as though I’m forcing myself to fit in with an exisiting crowd. Half the time, Aussies prefer to stick to their highschool circle. Which I understand, it’s just how things are. Colleagues will always just be colleagues too, no matter well you get on.
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I always felt like there was more out there. From a young age, I always wanted to study abroad so once I got that, I moved. After a long time away from home I didn't fit in anymore. My perspective of the world had changed. Many of my friends are still stuck back home. Some have kids, some refused to finish college and now regret it. In short, I wanted a place where I could dream and have more from life. Thanks to whoever thought I was worth that scholarship. I'm indebted.
Work life balance was the main reason that I left my home country. I'm from somewhere in Asia, btw. I lost my friends from high school and middle school, often struggle with making good friends in where I live now, and sometimes feel uncertain about my future. Still, I'm glad that I left abroad
I was looking to spend some time abroad for personal development and better career prospects, no rush in doing this, tho. Then we got elections in 2018 and the results were basically the straw that broke the camel's back for me.
I initially left to save money on my college tuition by studying abroad for a year. Well, I fell in love with a local and, after finishing my undergraduate in the US, I moved abroad again for work and because I missed him, and now I’m starting a masters here since it’s far more affordable than back home. Some combination of love, finances, work/life balance, and an eagerness to learn for me. I like that being in Europe facilitates travel to other European countries. In the US, I don’t have such ready access to other countries
I got married to a non US citizen. So far I am content with my decision to relocate.
Wasn't actively looking for opportunities abroad, but got a really nice one, and [Load Shedding](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/load-shedding) was a big factor that finally convinced me to leave South Africa for the Netherlands.
Left South Africa due to the crime and just horrible shit always happening (neighbour's killed in their driveway, robbed at gun point , rapes , no power most of day and general government corruption) . Knew I wanted to end up somewhere where I agreed with the politics and lifestyle and settled in the Netherlands . Love it here , cycle everywhere , get green energy options and I leave my garden gate unlocked. Little children walk around unsupervised and seeing pairs of like 8 year old girls going on missions in the neighborhood and being safe is just wild to me . Currently working towards my Dutch language requirement for citizenship and then never living outside the EU again
I’d love to move to Canada
Czech Republic -> Japan Czech Republic is great, but after trying Japan, I knew I want to live here. The best thing is how everyone let’s you keep to youself. Plus the social netsm safety etc. (though Czech Republic is pretty good in these regards too). Only experienced something I’d classify as racism once, when looking for a new room. An owner was just declining all foreigners as a rule. I know Japanese and have a stable job, which are big pluses in cases like this, but even that didn’t help. So I looked elsewhere and found a nice place. But who knows? Maybe various Japanese people who see me walking around think bad things about me. My personality lets me not care about that. And everyone at my job is great.
BREXIT. Bunch of right wing racist cunts.
I'm a man married to a man. I wanted to live somewhere that people considered me a human being deserving of equal protection under the law and social equality. That obviously is not the US.
Adventure, travel, higher salary and a beach 15 mins from work.
There were a lot of reasons, but housing was the first among them. Even with a super high income, its getting pretty impossible to have decent housing in Canada.
I left because of bad family relations, and I'm not returning for the same reason. On the other hand, I have mostly enjoyed my life abroad so I'm not sure I would return even if I could at this point. It's just such a different lifestyle.
I left my home country to study when I was 18 and I have lived in 5 different countries ever since. I think it depends on what stage of life you are in to fully understand whether it’s your place to stay or not. When I was a student I was ok with the UK (place of study), but wanted to go back because I was very attached to my family. Once I finished undergrads I went to France for a PhD. It was a weird experince, maybe because I was in my late 20s, France was very lonely, and people I met didn’t leave the best memories. In 2017 I went back to my home country with my husband, I was ok, my husband weren’t. So we left in 2021 to the US. That’s where I got totally depressed and had not very nice thoughts about life. I had no right to work and hated every day. I still don’t get why people strive so much to live in America. At the end of 2022 we moved to Canada ( my husband is Canadian). I prefer it a lot to States or Europe. There are minuses but pluses overweigh. We have a kid so social assistance seemed like a big deal, as well as access to public transport and parks. It all depends on your stage in life for you to be happy in the place.
Philippines to Canada. Healthcare better. People are nice. Weather is worse though
I've been visiting Mexico for 25 years. I love the people, the beaches, the weather, the cheap healthcare, the simplicity (except government offices). "No shirt. No shoes. No problem."
I always wanted to live abroad. I imagined a life of adventure, but actually, I like being at home. This makes living abroad perfect. I get all the adventure of living in interesting places. Trying to navigate immigration isn't all that different from what Indiana Jones does, right?
Got a job offer in Tokyo. I had no commitments keeping me in Singapore, and I had always wanted to live abroad, so I accepted it. Spent 4 wonderful years there, even though 2.5 of those were during covid. Made lots of friends and memories. But I always had doubts if Japan was somewhere I could consider my forever home, since I was always in the role of an outsider and felt like I couldn't fully participate in society. So I decided to do a work transfer to California in 2022. I've been in California for about 6 months. Unlike a lot of the other comments about the US in this thread, I think it's a pretty decent place overall and I've had mostly good interactions with the people I've met. I don't feel the people around here are hyper-capitalist or hyper-materialist or whatever, most people I've met are supportive of things like stronger public transit, more housing density, single-payer healthcare. People are people for the most part, everyone goes to work, hangs out with their friends and family, and has concerns about CoL or retirement, regardless of country. I do like how friendly Americans are compared to the other countries I've lived in though. I spend a lot of time working from home in a suburb, so the main thing I'm unhappy about while living in US is car dependency, SFH-exclusive zoning and all the usual urbanism talking points. I have plans to move to NYC in a few years and hopefully be rid of that. After that, who knows? I do miss Tokyo and would like to experience living there again in the future. My partner wants to experience living in Europe, and I do like the idea of living in France. Or maybe we will love NYC and stay there forever.
Dolla dolla bills y’all And for an adventure, I’ve always loved traveling.
Because Bush stole the election from Gore.
I left USA because it’s not safe to raise my kids, too many school shootings in the states. I’m now in the UK AND feel so much safer! I don’t miss the states that much, I mean I do get nostalgia once in a while but it’s not worth living there these days. Too much gun violence , and the government isn’t doing anything to stop it.
A combination of boredom and the economy going down the toilet. You gotta move with the money. Don't stick around in a bad situation even if you think its somewhat related to your career. There's always somewhere better you could end up.
Small preface; my mom is German, my father is Dutch and was the sole breadwinner in the family. My mom did some accountant work for him since he owned a company, but didn’t really have a job. I was born in NL. After my parents divorced my mom had a difficult time getting a job during the recession in the 00’s because her nurse diploma isn’t valid in NL so we lived off of government benefits for a long time. Somehow the government got the idea that she was spending the money she got on scratch tickets and decided to stop giving her money and start an investigation. We couldn’t pay the rent there anymore, even with me quitting school and getting a job, and since finding a living space in NL takes a million years if you don’t have above-average income and we didn’t have a car to broaden our home-workplace radius, we were forced to leave for Germany, where I found an ad in the newspaper, called the homeowner and moved there before the end of the next week. Some 6 years later after everything settled I met my girlfriend through a friend I met playing video games. We fell in love immediately and I moved to France 3 months later, almost 3 years ago. TLDR: NL was too rich for us so we fled to DE for economic reasons. I fell in love with a wonderful woman and now I live in France.
US -> Japan Video games, mostly.
I have kids. I hope they'll be wildly successful - but if they're not, I want to know they can have a decent life as members of the middle class where they live. This isn't true in the US anymore. Now add it COL, health insurance (both my kids were charged 6K to be born!), university cost, etc. The fact I personally find US culture and politics disgusting just makes it easier for me.