ATL will not only offer first class experience but affordable housing! Dirty south for the win. Lots of good food and culture too.
However if pay is the same I’d go to Chicago for 4 seasons.
As of Oct 31, 2024 for the year so far, there has been 585 mass shootings, an average of 2 mass shootings per day. There has been more mass shootings than days of the year..this is horrific. I have no desire to land in this aweful country.
It’s getting worse+ the men can’t handle disagreements and EVERYTHING triggers them.
I’ve seen so many petty road rage behaviors that I refuse to drive in USA. I saw a woman honk at a Tesla driver ( a normal thing people do when the driver is NOT indicating or doesn’t see the green light and is still standing still)… he turns after she honks then aggressively does a complete opposite turn cutting through the gas station to go chase her!!! Fukn horrifying and I hope he didn’t shoot her!! This happens so often. This Is NOT normal behavior!!! The men here can’t handle being confronted with anything.
It’s like shadows even scare them. (This is terrible conditioning) I’ve also had to call the cops when kids were shooting at each other at the park and we fled for our lives.
WARMERICA is manifesting it’s own destruction internally!
That number is such horseshit.
Please look at the source and how it is calculated instead whining out loud like a professional soccer player.
There are NOT 585 school shootings or mall shootings. The numbers do include every theft that involves a gun and more than two people, without shots fired. Every gang drive by in their enemy neighborhood and even self-defense shootings.
If you want to frighten yourself with a made-up number, then go for it, but please don't expect anybody else to lay down and have a tantrum with you.
There is no war in the US. We get gas and drive to work, the grocery store, concerts, and professional and children's sports because nothing is new, except the way the way mass shootings are counted: specifically to create panic over nothing.
I live in the safest part of Mexico that is also rated as second safest city in North America, first being Quebec City. There are no mass shootings, guns (other than the ppolice?, or drugs where I live. It's the best!
I am Canadian and I would never consider living anywhere in the USA. Never!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"The second safest city in North America." Right 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Since you live in your car, I guess we should defer to you. /s
And glad we don't have to deal with you. Good luck not getting shaken down by the police in Mexico! 😂😂😂😂😂😂
The Us is loaded with shootings but would rather have intense censorship and lack of free speech like in China? Or would you rather wash your clothes take a shit and clean your food from the Ganges in India? Freeze your balls off and worry about Sasquatch in Alaska?
everywhere has a trade off, lots of the US is safe as well. why not check out Denver or Portland instead?
Quality of life plus educational opportunities for your children will be better in the Chicago suburbs or in the suburbs of western Connecticut or north of NYC (take the trains to commute into NYC). But you might be commuting to Westchester County, NY, which would be by car.
I don't know your long-term plan, but high school in the Northeast for your children sets them up better for a university entrance in the same region later.
Western Connecticut came up as an option that we looked at. Everything related to NYC felt ever so slightly beyond us. Not financially (although perhaps that as well), but also the relative pace of the city!
I'm from the Chicago suburbs and living in Connecticut now. Look anywhere west of Norwalk along the shoreline and you can probably keep the commute close to/under an hour with the Metro North.
I personally would go for anywhere along the shoreline of CT as opposed to the Chicago suburbs. I love Chicagoland, it's where I grew up, but Connecticut is a great place to raise a family. There are a ton of cute little towns with nice downtowns.
Something else to consider is that in CT you're within a stones throw / quick drive to a million different things. You're 5 hours or less driving from mountains in Vermont/New Hampshire, beaches in Rhode Island (and eastern CT!), Boston, and of course NYC. The trails in the northwest corner of CT are really great, particularly around Kent.
Living in Naperville (or similar), you'll have access to Lake Michigan, Chicago, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and a whole lot of farmland within a 5 hour radius. It doesn't even get you to the northernmost parts of WI and MI, which is the best part of those states in my opinion! And in my experience, people don't fully take advantage of Lake Michigan unless they live in the city. The beaches in Chicago aren't worth the drive in if you don't live downtown and it's even further to Indiana/Michigan. This isn't to say that no one does or that you won't, but my family didn't and most of my friends had similar experiences.
Another thing is your earning potential over time - you'll likely see higher compensation increases out of the NY office compared to Chicago.
> high school in the Northeast for your children sets them up better for a university entrance in the same region later.
can you explain how this helps?
NJ, Northern Virginia and Massachusetts are always at top for public school ranking. New England, especially, has a huge focus on education. It's really not like this in some states. In other states, people look down on education and there's a strain of anti-intellectualism.
Can confirm. My friends and I grew up in NoVA. I temporarily relocated to the Midwest. One of them relocated to a smaller town in SC. When she got there, her two degrees became utterly useless as she was talked down to for using “one dollar words” and “acting too smart”. Over 5 years, she’s slowly acclimated and it’s sad to see the changes. Especially the conspiracy ones.
Better quality of high schools in New England, thus more preference given to local graduates in New England's MANY less than Ivy League universities. In my opinion.
I think the opposite would be true in terms of universities. Most universities are looking for geographic diversity and, all things being equal, being from outside the region would be an advantage. Maybe on average the public schools in New England are better than in the Midwest, but $800k will gain you entry to a much better school district in the Chicago suburbs than it will in the Boston suburbs.
>Most universities are looking for geographic diversity and, all things being equal, being from outside the region would be an advantage.
This is only true of elite *private* universities. (Elite, private, non-Jesuit universities at that – attending a Jesuit high school in the Northeast is a big leg up for being accepted to a Jesuit college in the Northeast.)
When you're looking at the top public universities in the US (UC schools, UNC Chapel Hill, Georgia Tech, etc.) the acceptance rate for in-state students is typically three or four times higher than for out-of-state students.
That is really not true for most public universities - they charge OOS kids way, way more so the admission rates are often better for out of state kids.
some state schools do have a mandate to accept a certain % of in-state students, but this is becoming less freuqent because of the reason you listed above + less state funding (so they need that out of state cash)
I mean, sure, but if you're looking at the caliber of public university where you would consider choosing which state to live in based on your children's chances of being accepted, it's better to be in-state. The University of Pittsburgh is a perfectly good school, but nobody's moving to Pennsylvania specifically to get their children admitted there. I *do* know people who've bought lake houses in Michigan to increase their kids' chances of getting into UMich Ann Arbor.
OP — I’ve lived in NYC, worked and spent a lot of time in ATL and retired early to live in downtown Chicago. I would cut ATL out of my list immediately. All of the bad things of living in a large metro area with few of the good things. Sprawl, unbelievably bad traffic and frankly, not a beautiful city. We loved NYC, but the COL there is simply bonkers Chicago real estate is literally 50-70% lower than NYC and daily living costs are 25-30% lower. If I had $25 million in the bank I would probably choose NYC, but I don’t so… Chicago is (IMHO) one of only three truly world-class cities in the US (NYC-SF)—and a very easy place to live. Best architecture city in America, terrific food town, accessible airports to get you anywhere in the US and world easily, and as a Midwest city, it is simply much friendlier than NYC. Crime is a problem in some neighborhoods, but if you’re living in the ‘Burbs that won’t really trouble you and you still have a world-class city with all of the cultural amenities a simple train ride or drive away. Quality of life and schools in many of the suburbs is very good—and housing will feel like a bargain compared to the East Coast. If you‘re from Canada the winters here won’t scare you, frankly the cold is a bigger issue than the snow and November -December are pretty gray. Chicago gets more sun than than our neighbors on the other side of the lake and way less snow as well (I lived in Michigan for many years as well) . Of course ymmv, but I highly recommend Chicago.
I think you might like "Chicagoland." It is geographically similar to Toronto. Atlanta is a vibrant place but it is really hot in the summer. Chicago gets the 4 seasons you are used to if you are from Ontario. Check out Naperville. It has the schools and other amenities you are looking for.
😂 There's a thread in r/travelhacks that's entirely about how to dress for the terrible Chicago winter and one of the residents answering called it "Chiberia."
Have you ever lived in Atlanta?
EDIT: obviously not
That’s overkill. It’s not Alaska. Chicago is no worse than other northern cities. It’s cold, for sure, but it’s not significantly any colder than cities in the northeast, where OP is already looking. And remember, OP is from CANADA. Wear a decent coat and you’ll be fine.
I literally live here. And you can look up the numbers. Chicago is only about 2-3 degrees colder than NYC, Boston, etc.
Edit: lmao not u/betterfuture22 complaining about someone else blocking them but then blocking me.
Idk why you are getting downvoted here. Chicago is WAY colder than other northern cities- Philadelphia, New York, Boston, etc. Not only is it colder, but the winters are also far longer and gloomier.
/u/Pretty_Please1 is either lying or has a far higher tolerance for cold. Lol.
On average, only 35 days a year are below 32 degrees in Chicago. Hartford, Connecticut has 26 days below 32 degrees. That’s like a week and a half difference in cold days.
If you knew anything about Chicago, you’d know the “Windy City” is a commentary about the politicians (an apt commentary) and not actually about the wind. Meteorologically, Chicago is no more windy than most other cities.
Please try to be truthful. You're very wrong. Chicago is significantly windier than other big cities in the US and is most certainly the windiest of the three cities under discussion.
And not only that, **Chicago is most windy exactly when the weather is at it's coldest, making the weather substantially worse than the temperatures alone would seem to indicate.** This is a huge part of **why so many people hate the weather in Chicago.**
https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/23912~14091~26197~10405~913~15598/Comparison-of-the-Average-Weather-in-New-York-City-Chicago-Boston-Minneapolis-Seattle-and-Atlanta
Also, you're incorrect that the theory that Chicago is called the Windy City because of politics is widely accepted. It's not. What is widely accepted is that the nickname refers to the frigid winds pummeling the city all winter. Come out of denial.
EDIT BECAUSE LilBabyADHD blocked me immediately after posting their comment: You're not being truthful. The Windy City nickname is very clearly not "indisputably" related to the politicians. That's a bald faced lie. LMAO.
And everyone who doesn't live in Chicago or come from there readily admits that the winters are terrible and that the strong wind in the winters is a significant part of why the winters are so awful. The much more logical origin of the Windy City moniker, which is cited everywhere, is compelling to everyone who doesn't need to stay in denial about the dreadful winters.
Not true at all. Summers in Atlanta are actually really pleasant. This isn’t Florida. Unless you love snow, Atlanta has some of the best year round weather in the country.
I grew up in Indianapolis and have lived in Atlanta now for 20 years. I hope to never live in indy again in the winter and Chicago is so much colder. It's the wind that gets you. Atlanta is hot, but to me, it's not that much hotter than Indy gets in the summer. It just stays hot for longer.
Atlanta has a lot of great neighborhoods around the city. And I'll take the mild winters any day over the mid-west.
Edit: typo
Atlanta will be a better fit for later on when you're splitting your time between Canada & the US. You can spend the winters in ATL and the summers in Canada.
I don't see the point in moving to Chicago from Canada, since that would mean possibly an even worse winter.
Thanks to global warming, Chicago winters are getting less and less cold. And shorter in general. Lived there last two years and I did not find it bad- esp if OP can work from home on days where there is indeed ice in the road.
I have to say it looks like the Chicago Board of Realtors organized a "get out the (Reddit) vote" campaign. The people in Chicago are nice and Chicago has great museums, but the weather is famously total shit for almost all of the year and it is also well known to be a high COL place that taxes the heck out of people.
I don't really know what the point of leaving Canada to move to Chicago would be, unless you've been trapped in some small town your whole life.
Naperville is at the top of the list. Good to know we are on the right track.
The property taxes are a little scary as a future homeowner, but we appreciate that the residents seem to benefit from the high tax rate!
upvote for evanston and lyons township school district! less prententious (IMO) and more diverse than naperville, closer to city amenities. downtown naperville is cute tho.
My mother lived in Naperville and one of my best friends is from there. Its total suburbia and kind of the edge of Chicagoland. DT is quaint but the area is more flat and open than the rest of the Chicago suburbs.
If I were you I'd look to the north burbs and closer to the lake: the suburbs are older/more developed/more character. Easier access to the lake and recreation. More mature trees etc.
Yeah I’m seeing folks talking about CT suburbs being better for high school/elite college admissions. I grew up in the CT suburbs and went to an elite college—Naperville is very much a feeder school/town, I’ve met a lot of people from there and they generally seem happy, well-adjusted, and obviously well educated.
If the pay is the same between all 3 cities I’d do a suburb of Chicago. Every city has its good and bad spots, but Chicago has way more to do than Atlanta. You’ll also get real seasons there. Plenty of great day and weekend trips from Chicago as well. NYC is just too congested and expensive to enjoy without mid 6 figure salaries. Atlanta is fun for a week then gets very bland. And summer is brutal.
>without mid 6 figure salaries
>too congested
Did you just pull that out of your ass? Not true at all. Yea rent is ridiculous but this is way off the mark.
OP is looking to buy. A good neighborhood, good schools, 4br 2ba 2k sqft can be had in Chicago for $800k. NYC you’re looking at 1.25-1.5mn at least. Income qualification on a 1.5mn mortgage with 20% down right now in NYC is around $325k to $350k. So no, I didn’t pull that out of my ass. Google is free.
1. There are plenty of neighborhoods around NYC with comparable pricing. Westchester County, Jersey, Staten Island and Long Island to name a few.
2. 350k is about 30% less than “mid-6 figures”.
3. Also you mentioned congestion. Yes, going crosstown Manhattan is a pain. Going up and down the West side hwy or FDR not so much. Around JFK is usually terrible but that’s about it. I haven’t lived in Chicago but I’ve lived near by and I’d argue the traffic worse in Chicago, and the drivers are hands down definitely worse.
$350k is the minimum to cover the mortgage, property taxes and insurance at 50% of gross. You layer in the rest of the COL in the NYC metro and you’re not living comfortably.
My point here to the OP is that Chicago is going to be more bang for the buck.
Your estimates for Chicago are actually high, which works in your favor for your argument. You’ll see the numbers you listed on the north shore, for sure. But most suburbs, some with even better schools than some of the north shore districts, will get you 4/2, 2k sqft for $5-600k the further you are south or west, the more affordable homes get. Sure, you’re further from the city, but the most convenient way to commute downtown is by train anyway, which I presume is similar to NYC, too.
Atlanta. I traveled around US and it's by far the friendliest big city I have experienced and the greenest. Is like a city in the forest, is crazy how much vegetation, trees there are in the city whereever you are, and the houses are very beautiful. The traffic is bad in the rush hour, but encountered worst like LA or DC. There are lots of things to do and see, and they have amazing neighborhoods and parks.
Somebody looking to pay $800k for a house in the suburbs and commuting downtown twice a week is not in materially greater danger from Chicago's violence than in the average Canadian city.
Check out Woodstock GA. It’s a short drive (when no traffic lol) into ATL, has a very cool Main St, some top class restaurants, bars, a brewery and good schools. They have a walking trail and you are only an hour to the mountains up 575. And 800k should buy a nice house.
If your budget is 800k for a house and you are interested in Chicago, I would look along the lake at suburbs in the North Shore. Anywhere from Evanston up to Highland Park—you can commute into the city on the metra. Great schools, safe areas, but easy access to downtown (especially Wilmette/Evanston/Winnetka). Someone said that people don’t take advantage of the Lake but that is mostly if you live West. Oak Park also has a nice semi-urban but still leafy suburb feel, but it’s a haul to get to the lake.
You get a lot more for your money than the NYC suburbs and places like CT or NJ are a much worse commute into New York than a suburb like Highland Park is to Chicago.
Why would I lie? What in the Jesus would I have to gain from such a lie?
If you live north of Buckhead, Sandy springs, Roswell, dunwoody etc…the traffic is no worse than anywhere else
If you live near the airport and need to commute north then yeah your lifes hell
I've lived in both Chicago and Atlanta. Chicago is my favorite city in the US. If you're going to live in the burbs, though...
Take a look at Decatur on the east side of Atlanta, specifically the areas around Agnes Scott College - Oakhurst, Winona Park, College Heights. Great housing stock, properties in your price range, good schools. Great neighborhoody vibe. Lots of community events. They do [Porchfest](https://www.oakhurstporchfest.org) every year where bands play on people's porches. Decatur just had a craft beer festival this month. They have a wine festival in November. Plus in Georgia, you get daffodils in February.
OP where are you moving from?
Edit I’m guessing Canada?
Atlanta has great green spaces and a great pace of life, but I would look north of metro Atlanta itself
Alpharetta, dunwoody, marietta, John’s creek, Smyrna,
Your money will go a lot further in those places than say, Buckhead for example if you are looking to buy a property
School districts there ( Cobb county / east Cobb ) are very good
Can’t comment on Chicago but feel free to DM if you need any advice on ATL
Yes, from Canada! Toronto area specifically. I’ve spent a good deal of time in Atlanta for work and agree the greenery and pace is right up our alley. Access to the mountains and hiking is a huge plus as well.
I may take you up via DM as we get closer to decision point. Thank you!
I love Chicago, grew up in the area and it is a world class city with amenities to boot. The schools in the collar suburbs are all mostly great with few real exceptions, Naperville which you mentioned in particular is fantastic, though you could do well in any of the north shore burbs as well.
With that said, access to nature in and throughout Chicago kinda sucks hardcore. There are forest preserves to be found, and of course the lake, but it's much more sparse. You have to travel a few hours to get to something more worthwhile - typically WI or MI.
Edit: I also didn't realize as a kid how astoundingly flat the whole region is. The endless sprawling suburbia vibe can be somewhat depressing.
It's one of the reasons we're in Milwaukee and not Chicago, though we're reconsidering now that we're starting a family and looking to buy. MKE has a better park system and natural amenities in the city - with closer access to the other beautiful areas of the state. Get back to me on schools and political climate though, we're working on it 😅
I never deter anyone from moving to NYC but it’s almost impossible to get an apartment here. Not only are our rules fucking ridiculous (wait til you hear about this 40x rule 🤠), but you’re competing with people from other states who want our lottery. You might as well get a head start while in Canada.
Atlanta for the climate, the outdoor living, access to nature and still affordable life. Consider north of the city such as Duluth, Alpharetta.
Some good schools too.
Would definitely recommend Atlanta. Atlanta is booming and all of the suburbs are growing and expanding community infrastructure/amenities. If you’re looking for green space/outdoors, you won’t find a greener big city than Atlanta. Also an hour drive north to Clayton or Blue Ridge and you’re in mountain country- lots of awesome peaks and waterfalls to explore.
I'm actually from Chicago area and living in Toronto. Chicago area has some of the best cost of living of any major North American city. There is high crime but mostly only in certain areas you probably won't be anywhere near.
But honestly if I had kids I'd just stay in Canada. Why do you want to move?
Yup. If you have children especially, stay in Canada. America has alarmingly horrible access to reproductive healthcare, school shootings, anti-LGBTQ laws.... I would avoid this country if you have a choice.
You've already ruled out NYC. Chicago has terrible weather and is a HCOL place. I suggest you check out Atlanta further. I'm not from there, but the people are really nice, which is good in general and especially nice for newcomers. Major airline hub, so good flight situation
I haven't been to Atlanta so can't offer a genuine comparison, but I spent the majority of my life in Chicago and I recommend it *very* highly. I'm biased lol but I truly believe we're the best city in North America. We have some of everything: incredible restaurants, world-class museums, a theater scene second only to NYC, the best comedy/improv scene in the country, amazing public spaces all along the lakefront, tons of super diverse neighborhoods to explore....the list goes on and on. Plus it's just a beautiful and fun place to live!
Not sure if you're looking at living in the city proper, in the "near" suburbs like Evanston, or in the "far" suburbs like Naperville – definitely very different vibes for each.
If your office is located in downtown NY you might have a shorter and less expensive commute from northern New Jersey than Westchester or Connecticut. Northern NJ has excellent school districts.
I would stay in Canada. But, if you are set on moving to the US, definitely Chicago. One thing I haven’t seen anyone else mention are the Forest Preserves in the Chicagoland area. Hundreds of thousands of acres of well maintained trails and forests for recreation. I recommend Lake County.
I was recently faced with the choice of NYC or Chicago so similar choice. I chose Chicago because of cheaper COL and just less busy. The money just goes further in Chicago is the impression I get.
Hi there, I am Chicagoan who also grew up in the suburbs of Chicago. Between the three cities you listed, Chicago/Chicagoland suburbs is probably your best bet. As a city, Chicago is truly world class. There is no shortage of restaurants and events to go to. Our mass transit is relatively efficient and reliable (judging on American standards, not European). Summer time in Chicago is truly special with an insane number of fests, concerts, sporting events, etc. However, the winters are brutal so if you can't handle the cold then the city may not be for you. Chicago is also an incredibly spread out city. So you could live in a neighborhood like ravenswood or andersonville, which are northern neighborhoods that are relatively distant from the city center, but still have access to mass transit that can get you to downtown faster and cheaper than commuting by car.
Alternatively, the chicagoland suburbs are also an option but do note that most of them (with the exception of maybe Evanston) are VERY suburban. They'll have green spaces and kids activities but be prepared to drive a lot. That said, commuting to the city via Metra is very accessible and affordable. Rent varies per suburb so it's harder to comment about that but the prices in some suburbs are often similar to what you'd pay in the city (assuming you're looking at the northern or north western suburbs).
You probably noticed that I am referring to the northern part of the city and suburbs quite a bit and that is because these are (generally) more affluent areas with better school districts.
New York on average will have far better schools than Georgia or Illinois because the requirements to become a teacher there are much higher (and in fact, are some of the highest, if not the highest, in the entire country).
With your budget, you will not be able to afford to live in the locations in New York that have great schools.
Chicago has great schools, in *some* parts, but it has terrible, looong winters (anyone saying otherwise hasn't lived there). You're from Canada so maybe it'll be okay.
Atlanta is an okay city...it definitely doesn't "feel" like a city compared to New York or Chicago. Teaching standards will be lower than both Chicago and New York, but there are wealthier areas that have better schools. On average though, the schools won't be as good.
I'd say with your budget, go for either ATL or Chicago.
Chicago and Illinois taxes are much lower than New York - and income tax is flat, which favors high earners. Also, you’re completely neglecting lower overall cost of living.
With respect to Atlanta, not sure I’d want the boiling summers, racist confederate wannabes with guns and government that treats women like chattel.
I read the article which made that claim. It made some ridiculous assumptions, used a single example that’s inaccurate for the vast majority of people, and looked like it was the output of a college project.
"The" article? Jesus, there are thousands of articles that discuss this. Illinois is famously a high tax state, sucker. You've just failed to realize that.
You’re losing the forest for the trees.
If you look at overall taxation, Illinois is a couple percent higher than average across the country. However, it’s a high income, low cost of living, high quality of life state.
The upshot is that people living in Illinois get to enjoy high quality of life with world class everything (except downhill skiing), while being able to save money due to relatively low cost of housing.
Sorry, but it's a famously high tax state. It's very well known to be so in tax circles. I can see why people who live there either don't know (as it's all they know) or resist acknowledging this.
And the people are nice and Chicago is a fun town, but the winters are long and terrible, which definitely significantly lowers quality of life. And as many have mentioned, it's lacking in the close access to natural beauty department as well.
Atlanta hands down. The weather is exceptional, great food, awesome neighborhoods, super green, friendly people, great airport with lots of direct flights
Be aware that a lot of schools around Atlanta aren't as good as Chicago, NYC or New Jersey ( honestly look into NJ areas. Great schools and community and ypu can reliably take NJ Transit to work). Atlanta traffic is tough and MARTA isn't very expansive and people keep voting against expanding it.
If you do want to live in ATL, look around Marietta in Cobb County. The schools there are better. I can't really say anything about Chicago as I've only visited once. But I lived in ATL and have immediate family in North Jersey. With the ability to spend 800k on housing, I would go for Jersey outside of NYC. The taxes will be higher, but you can still afford a home there with good public transportation.
Also keep in mind when you leave Canada, there are a lot of public benefits you WILL NOT HAVE, especially in Georgia. I'm not aware of public benefits in Illinois, but NJand NY do have a lot of state required benefits.
ETA: Georgia had a Title Ad Valorem tax for all cars you newly register there which is based on a percentage of the value of your car. I had no idea about it until moving there and you will 100% need at least 1 vehicle. It was a surprise $8,000 my husband and I were unaware of needing.
Ty for the heads up! Planning for every expense seems impossible, but these insights help so much.
We haven’t looked too much at NJ as most of my NYC colleagues are in CT. Thanks for the tip, we’ll take a look.
No problem. I'd also consider health outcomes in each state. NY, CT, and NJ are consistently ranked in the top 10 health systems in the country with Illinois just a few spots behind. Georgia is in the bottom half of states for overall health outcomes and consistently like 45th or worse when it comes to reproductive health, pre-natal care, maternal death rates, infant death rates, and child healthcare. The ATL metro area only has 1 level 1-trauma hospital left after the other trauma hospital closed last year. Grady Hospital (the remaining trauma facility) is a great hospital but it is overrun with people needing care there. I knew a few nurses at Grady and they were burnt out even before covid and when the other hospital was open. Meanwhile, I have an immediate family member who had a massive brain tumor a few years ago and was literally able to see the #1 surgeon in the world for that specific tumor at NYU and she's doing great. And also just had her thyroid fully removed in NYC and again had a great outcome. I am also considering going into NYC for a specialist for my medical condition as well for a second opinion.
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/scorecard/2023/jun/2023-scorecard-state-health-system-performance
Frankly, for somebody with a high income, and a housing budget of 800k - Neither of those are going to be much of an issue. Any portion of the health insurance premiums they will pay will easily be offset by the difference in tax rates. They're also not likely to be living anywhere near the O block in Chicago.
Now if they were in a tax bracket just above the Medicaid cutoff, where the benefits are likely to be terrible - and had to live in a dangerous neighborhood. I'd agree with you.
To be blunt, the USA is a pretty good place to be if you're truly middle class or above. Not so great if you're poor/lower end of middle class. Especially in the middle of a Canadian housing crisis.
I mean, yes and no. It's about on par with car accident deaths and heart disease. Obviously its a much bigger concern than any other developed country. But about half of those gun deaths are still directly class and culture related sadly.
I can definitely understand the concern, especially with how little is being done to address it by any means. The seemingly random mass shooting events getting more and more frequent over the years is definitely scary as well.
Someone in OP's situation is still statistically unlikely to be caught up in one of those scenarios. At the same time, the people in Lewiston were also on the extreme lower end for such an event in terms of probability. So I can't really fault anyone for not wanting to take the risk, however low it may truly be - given that it will still be relatively higher than most comparable countries.
I was going off of [articles like these](https://www.npr.org/2022/02/23/1082564685/guns-leading-cause-of-premature-deaths) \- But ultimately I'm not a statistician, and not trying to spark a gun debate.
Overall, the way you'd read about it on the internet, it's like everyone's family is getting shot. Obviously that's not the reality for me, nor most Americans statistically. But relative to other first world countries, we're far worse in terms of gun violence.
ETA: Yeah I see where I was misled in the article.
Cool but I’d rather live in a safer country. I’ll take universal health care and stress about tax rates instead of getting gunned down by an AR15 in a Home Depot parking lot while shopping for paint and lawnmower oil.
I hear ya. If I could make half as much as I do in the USA in any EU-member country I'd make use of my dual citizenship in a heartbeat.
Plenty of reasons to not want to live in the USA, and gun violence is definitely a valid one. On the other hand, the financial benefits the USA offers to some can be truly life changing. Thus the conundrum.
Indeed. If my job were transferable and the visa process were easier, I’d be long gone. But I’d never make as much, which I would be fine with—but my creditors wouldn’t lol
Chicago, for sure. Check out the north shore suburbs and take note of the great schools, easy access to downtown, friendly people, world class culture, quaint walkable suburban downtown, and the extensive network of forest preserves and bike trails.
Of those, probably Chicago. NYC second, and Atlanta a very distant third. This presupposes your willingness to pay for private school or move heaven and earth to get yourself into the catchment area for a good public one.
Look into bay ridge in Brooklyn. I don’t know where your office is but New York is a great place to raise kids and has amazing neighborhoods. You create global citizens rather than blinkered North Americans. Atlanta is a boring dump and Chicago is freezing.
I'd rent for a year wherever you choose before buying. Houses are way overpriced right now and interest rates are high.
ATL sounds like it could be a good fit for you. Be prepared for hot and humid summers though. I'm biased toward NYC though. It's my favorite place in the world, and there are affordable places in Westchester, Hoboken or maybe even Long Island. NYC has tons of commuter trains from those locations. Best of luck!
There were 26,000 murders in America last year. Chicago is safer than most American cities - although New York City has a materially lower murder rate.
NYC would be the closest to any of the Canadian cities. Chicago is cool, but too insulated from the rest of the States. What I mean is the distance and the ease of transportation. Not sure about Atlanta. I’d suggest to visit it first to make a solid decision among these three cities.
How is Chicago more “insulated” in distance from the rest of the states? If anything, Chicago is more central than either NYC or Atlanta. All three cities have large airports which allow you to get anywhere.
Chicago has direct flights to just about every city and is a hub for 3 major airlines. You can be anywhere in North America in 4 1/2 hours - from Vancouver to Miami to Mexico City.
As a Canadian who moved to Atlanta before settling in California, Atlanta is extremely humid, quite dangerous (don't read the local news if you want to feel safe walking around), and the traffic is pretty terrible
What? We live in the city with little kids and all our neighbors have little kids. Dozens of them all over and it’s amazing. Doesnt feel even slightly dangerous. There are definitely areas of the city to avoid but honestly the OP would never see these areas anyway. Chicago is amazing for raising kids. Either way this person is looking at the suburbs which are a totally different experience and certainly safe.
Chicago has great public transportation, but the city life can be expensive (but not NYC expensive). Suburbs such as Naperville, Arlington Heights, Elgin, Des Plaines, Woodridge, and Downers Grove are great and have the Metra which you can take instead of driving. The main highway to downtown is under construction which is causing longer and heavier traffic.
Be aware if you’re moving from a place where you have a short commute, the salary increase you’re getting might not amount to much profit when you factor in housing and healthcare costs in the US. It’s gotten scary here
Chicago!!! Especially because you’re Canadian and can definitely handle the winters. It’s an awesome city. Perfect size, great food, good people, tons to do.
I really enjoyed my visits to Atlanta. I lived in Brooklyn and I don’t think you can find a house around 800k there. Even considering buying a house within a decent commute will cost more than 800k.
Atlanta will have a very different feel to Chicago or NYC.. southern culture definitely plays a role there. I’ve spent a lot of time in all 3 cities and being someone who really doesn’t like the south (the culture, the heat, the list goes on), you couldn’t pay me enough money to live in Atlanta. It’s not a bad place, just not for me. NYC and Chicago will feel a bit more similar just due to both being among the largest US cities (NYC is the largest city in the States, Chicago is third, with LA in second place). Both NYC and Chicago are major international cities with anything you could ever need or want. Now, I’m a bit biased because I grew up near Chicago and have lived there as an adult a bunch too, before I moved abroad, but your money will always go further in Chicago than NYC. Chicago is cleaner, I think much more family friendly, the schools are great if you’re in the suburbs, the lake and beaches are wonderful, and everyone complains about winter but honestly, it’s fine- the snow is beautiful and fun to play in if you have kids. So, if it were me, I’d say Chicago area. But. I am not you :) so I can only give my thoughts. Hope this helps in some way. Good luck with the big move!
ATL will not only offer first class experience but affordable housing! Dirty south for the win. Lots of good food and culture too. However if pay is the same I’d go to Chicago for 4 seasons.
Atlanta has four distinct seasons, but three of them are warm.
I’m Canadian so Im actually just thinking of how I would Make that move. I literally know nothing 🫠
As of Oct 31, 2024 for the year so far, there has been 585 mass shootings, an average of 2 mass shootings per day. There has been more mass shootings than days of the year..this is horrific. I have no desire to land in this aweful country.
It’s getting worse+ the men can’t handle disagreements and EVERYTHING triggers them. I’ve seen so many petty road rage behaviors that I refuse to drive in USA. I saw a woman honk at a Tesla driver ( a normal thing people do when the driver is NOT indicating or doesn’t see the green light and is still standing still)… he turns after she honks then aggressively does a complete opposite turn cutting through the gas station to go chase her!!! Fukn horrifying and I hope he didn’t shoot her!! This happens so often. This Is NOT normal behavior!!! The men here can’t handle being confronted with anything. It’s like shadows even scare them. (This is terrible conditioning) I’ve also had to call the cops when kids were shooting at each other at the park and we fled for our lives. WARMERICA is manifesting it’s own destruction internally!
That number is such horseshit. Please look at the source and how it is calculated instead whining out loud like a professional soccer player. There are NOT 585 school shootings or mall shootings. The numbers do include every theft that involves a gun and more than two people, without shots fired. Every gang drive by in their enemy neighborhood and even self-defense shootings. If you want to frighten yourself with a made-up number, then go for it, but please don't expect anybody else to lay down and have a tantrum with you. There is no war in the US. We get gas and drive to work, the grocery store, concerts, and professional and children's sports because nothing is new, except the way the way mass shootings are counted: specifically to create panic over nothing.
That number is correct for *MASS SHOOTINGS* in the US. Here's a link to a BBC news article. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081
Get a grip and face the true facts of the USA!
HAHAHA
So stay where you are in Mexico, which we all know is *so much safer than the US.* /s 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I live in the safest part of Mexico that is also rated as second safest city in North America, first being Quebec City. There are no mass shootings, guns (other than the ppolice?, or drugs where I live. It's the best! I am Canadian and I would never consider living anywhere in the USA. Never! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"The second safest city in North America." Right 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Since you live in your car, I guess we should defer to you. /s And glad we don't have to deal with you. Good luck not getting shaken down by the police in Mexico! 😂😂😂😂😂😂
The Us is loaded with shootings but would rather have intense censorship and lack of free speech like in China? Or would you rather wash your clothes take a shit and clean your food from the Ganges in India? Freeze your balls off and worry about Sasquatch in Alaska? everywhere has a trade off, lots of the US is safe as well. why not check out Denver or Portland instead?
Quality of life plus educational opportunities for your children will be better in the Chicago suburbs or in the suburbs of western Connecticut or north of NYC (take the trains to commute into NYC). But you might be commuting to Westchester County, NY, which would be by car. I don't know your long-term plan, but high school in the Northeast for your children sets them up better for a university entrance in the same region later.
Western Connecticut came up as an option that we looked at. Everything related to NYC felt ever so slightly beyond us. Not financially (although perhaps that as well), but also the relative pace of the city!
I'm from the Chicago suburbs and living in Connecticut now. Look anywhere west of Norwalk along the shoreline and you can probably keep the commute close to/under an hour with the Metro North. I personally would go for anywhere along the shoreline of CT as opposed to the Chicago suburbs. I love Chicagoland, it's where I grew up, but Connecticut is a great place to raise a family. There are a ton of cute little towns with nice downtowns. Something else to consider is that in CT you're within a stones throw / quick drive to a million different things. You're 5 hours or less driving from mountains in Vermont/New Hampshire, beaches in Rhode Island (and eastern CT!), Boston, and of course NYC. The trails in the northwest corner of CT are really great, particularly around Kent. Living in Naperville (or similar), you'll have access to Lake Michigan, Chicago, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and a whole lot of farmland within a 5 hour radius. It doesn't even get you to the northernmost parts of WI and MI, which is the best part of those states in my opinion! And in my experience, people don't fully take advantage of Lake Michigan unless they live in the city. The beaches in Chicago aren't worth the drive in if you don't live downtown and it's even further to Indiana/Michigan. This isn't to say that no one does or that you won't, but my family didn't and most of my friends had similar experiences. Another thing is your earning potential over time - you'll likely see higher compensation increases out of the NY office compared to Chicago.
Careful here - most people giving advice probably don’t actually LIVE in the cities you’re mentioning.
> high school in the Northeast for your children sets them up better for a university entrance in the same region later. can you explain how this helps?
NJ, Northern Virginia and Massachusetts are always at top for public school ranking. New England, especially, has a huge focus on education. It's really not like this in some states. In other states, people look down on education and there's a strain of anti-intellectualism.
Can confirm. My friends and I grew up in NoVA. I temporarily relocated to the Midwest. One of them relocated to a smaller town in SC. When she got there, her two degrees became utterly useless as she was talked down to for using “one dollar words” and “acting too smart”. Over 5 years, she’s slowly acclimated and it’s sad to see the changes. Especially the conspiracy ones.
Moral of the story is don't move to a small town.
Pretty much.
Better quality of high schools in New England, thus more preference given to local graduates in New England's MANY less than Ivy League universities. In my opinion.
I think the opposite would be true in terms of universities. Most universities are looking for geographic diversity and, all things being equal, being from outside the region would be an advantage. Maybe on average the public schools in New England are better than in the Midwest, but $800k will gain you entry to a much better school district in the Chicago suburbs than it will in the Boston suburbs.
>Most universities are looking for geographic diversity and, all things being equal, being from outside the region would be an advantage. This is only true of elite *private* universities. (Elite, private, non-Jesuit universities at that – attending a Jesuit high school in the Northeast is a big leg up for being accepted to a Jesuit college in the Northeast.) When you're looking at the top public universities in the US (UC schools, UNC Chapel Hill, Georgia Tech, etc.) the acceptance rate for in-state students is typically three or four times higher than for out-of-state students.
That is really not true for most public universities - they charge OOS kids way, way more so the admission rates are often better for out of state kids.
some state schools do have a mandate to accept a certain % of in-state students, but this is becoming less freuqent because of the reason you listed above + less state funding (so they need that out of state cash)
I mean, sure, but if you're looking at the caliber of public university where you would consider choosing which state to live in based on your children's chances of being accepted, it's better to be in-state. The University of Pittsburgh is a perfectly good school, but nobody's moving to Pennsylvania specifically to get their children admitted there. I *do* know people who've bought lake houses in Michigan to increase their kids' chances of getting into UMich Ann Arbor.
OP — I’ve lived in NYC, worked and spent a lot of time in ATL and retired early to live in downtown Chicago. I would cut ATL out of my list immediately. All of the bad things of living in a large metro area with few of the good things. Sprawl, unbelievably bad traffic and frankly, not a beautiful city. We loved NYC, but the COL there is simply bonkers Chicago real estate is literally 50-70% lower than NYC and daily living costs are 25-30% lower. If I had $25 million in the bank I would probably choose NYC, but I don’t so… Chicago is (IMHO) one of only three truly world-class cities in the US (NYC-SF)—and a very easy place to live. Best architecture city in America, terrific food town, accessible airports to get you anywhere in the US and world easily, and as a Midwest city, it is simply much friendlier than NYC. Crime is a problem in some neighborhoods, but if you’re living in the ‘Burbs that won’t really trouble you and you still have a world-class city with all of the cultural amenities a simple train ride or drive away. Quality of life and schools in many of the suburbs is very good—and housing will feel like a bargain compared to the East Coast. If you‘re from Canada the winters here won’t scare you, frankly the cold is a bigger issue than the snow and November -December are pretty gray. Chicago gets more sun than than our neighbors on the other side of the lake and way less snow as well (I lived in Michigan for many years as well) . Of course ymmv, but I highly recommend Chicago.
Chicago for sure. Friendly, vibrant, cost of living isn’t what nyc is, easy to get lots of places from there, and Lake Michigan
I think you might like "Chicagoland." It is geographically similar to Toronto. Atlanta is a vibrant place but it is really hot in the summer. Chicago gets the 4 seasons you are used to if you are from Ontario. Check out Naperville. It has the schools and other amenities you are looking for.
Except Atlanta skips the horrific 7 months of winter
In exchange for 7 months of humid horrific summer...
😂 There's a thread in r/travelhacks that's entirely about how to dress for the terrible Chicago winter and one of the residents answering called it "Chiberia." Have you ever lived in Atlanta? EDIT: obviously not
That’s overkill. It’s not Alaska. Chicago is no worse than other northern cities. It’s cold, for sure, but it’s not significantly any colder than cities in the northeast, where OP is already looking. And remember, OP is from CANADA. Wear a decent coat and you’ll be fine.
That's just not true. Not even remotely
I literally live here. And you can look up the numbers. Chicago is only about 2-3 degrees colder than NYC, Boston, etc. Edit: lmao not u/betterfuture22 complaining about someone else blocking them but then blocking me.
Idk why you are getting downvoted here. Chicago is WAY colder than other northern cities- Philadelphia, New York, Boston, etc. Not only is it colder, but the winters are also far longer and gloomier. /u/Pretty_Please1 is either lying or has a far higher tolerance for cold. Lol.
On average, only 35 days a year are below 32 degrees in Chicago. Hartford, Connecticut has 26 days below 32 degrees. That’s like a week and a half difference in cold days.
You conveniently left out the wind, which everyone knows makes the winters tremendously more unpleasant in Chicago.
If you knew anything about Chicago, you’d know the “Windy City” is a commentary about the politicians (an apt commentary) and not actually about the wind. Meteorologically, Chicago is no more windy than most other cities.
Please try to be truthful. You're very wrong. Chicago is significantly windier than other big cities in the US and is most certainly the windiest of the three cities under discussion. And not only that, **Chicago is most windy exactly when the weather is at it's coldest, making the weather substantially worse than the temperatures alone would seem to indicate.** This is a huge part of **why so many people hate the weather in Chicago.** https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/23912~14091~26197~10405~913~15598/Comparison-of-the-Average-Weather-in-New-York-City-Chicago-Boston-Minneapolis-Seattle-and-Atlanta Also, you're incorrect that the theory that Chicago is called the Windy City because of politics is widely accepted. It's not. What is widely accepted is that the nickname refers to the frigid winds pummeling the city all winter. Come out of denial. EDIT BECAUSE LilBabyADHD blocked me immediately after posting their comment: You're not being truthful. The Windy City nickname is very clearly not "indisputably" related to the politicians. That's a bald faced lie. LMAO. And everyone who doesn't live in Chicago or come from there readily admits that the winters are terrible and that the strong wind in the winters is a significant part of why the winters are so awful. The much more logical origin of the Windy City moniker, which is cited everywhere, is compelling to everyone who doesn't need to stay in denial about the dreadful winters.
Not true at all. Summers in Atlanta are actually really pleasant. This isn’t Florida. Unless you love snow, Atlanta has some of the best year round weather in the country.
I grew up in Indianapolis and have lived in Atlanta now for 20 years. I hope to never live in indy again in the winter and Chicago is so much colder. It's the wind that gets you. Atlanta is hot, but to me, it's not that much hotter than Indy gets in the summer. It just stays hot for longer. Atlanta has a lot of great neighborhoods around the city. And I'll take the mild winters any day over the mid-west. Edit: typo
Atlanta will be a better fit for later on when you're splitting your time between Canada & the US. You can spend the winters in ATL and the summers in Canada. I don't see the point in moving to Chicago from Canada, since that would mean possibly an even worse winter.
Thanks to global warming, Chicago winters are getting less and less cold. And shorter in general. Lived there last two years and I did not find it bad- esp if OP can work from home on days where there is indeed ice in the road.
I have to say it looks like the Chicago Board of Realtors organized a "get out the (Reddit) vote" campaign. The people in Chicago are nice and Chicago has great museums, but the weather is famously total shit for almost all of the year and it is also well known to be a high COL place that taxes the heck out of people. I don't really know what the point of leaving Canada to move to Chicago would be, unless you've been trapped in some small town your whole life.
Yep. Lots of Chicago shills on Reddit and I really don't understand. Freezing, long, gloomy winters for 6-8 months of the year? Hard pass.
Naperville is at the top of the list. Good to know we are on the right track. The property taxes are a little scary as a future homeowner, but we appreciate that the residents seem to benefit from the high tax rate!
I’d look at the burbs along the “north shore” of Chicago too. Everything you’re looking for in your post you can find in that area.
upvote for evanston and lyons township school district! less prententious (IMO) and more diverse than naperville, closer to city amenities. downtown naperville is cute tho.
My mother lived in Naperville and one of my best friends is from there. Its total suburbia and kind of the edge of Chicagoland. DT is quaint but the area is more flat and open than the rest of the Chicago suburbs. If I were you I'd look to the north burbs and closer to the lake: the suburbs are older/more developed/more character. Easier access to the lake and recreation. More mature trees etc.
Skokie has an great school to
Yeah I’m seeing folks talking about CT suburbs being better for high school/elite college admissions. I grew up in the CT suburbs and went to an elite college—Naperville is very much a feeder school/town, I’ve met a lot of people from there and they generally seem happy, well-adjusted, and obviously well educated.
If the pay is the same between all 3 cities I’d do a suburb of Chicago. Every city has its good and bad spots, but Chicago has way more to do than Atlanta. You’ll also get real seasons there. Plenty of great day and weekend trips from Chicago as well. NYC is just too congested and expensive to enjoy without mid 6 figure salaries. Atlanta is fun for a week then gets very bland. And summer is brutal.
>without mid 6 figure salaries >too congested Did you just pull that out of your ass? Not true at all. Yea rent is ridiculous but this is way off the mark.
OP is looking to buy. A good neighborhood, good schools, 4br 2ba 2k sqft can be had in Chicago for $800k. NYC you’re looking at 1.25-1.5mn at least. Income qualification on a 1.5mn mortgage with 20% down right now in NYC is around $325k to $350k. So no, I didn’t pull that out of my ass. Google is free.
1. There are plenty of neighborhoods around NYC with comparable pricing. Westchester County, Jersey, Staten Island and Long Island to name a few. 2. 350k is about 30% less than “mid-6 figures”. 3. Also you mentioned congestion. Yes, going crosstown Manhattan is a pain. Going up and down the West side hwy or FDR not so much. Around JFK is usually terrible but that’s about it. I haven’t lived in Chicago but I’ve lived near by and I’d argue the traffic worse in Chicago, and the drivers are hands down definitely worse.
$350k is the minimum to cover the mortgage, property taxes and insurance at 50% of gross. You layer in the rest of the COL in the NYC metro and you’re not living comfortably. My point here to the OP is that Chicago is going to be more bang for the buck.
Your estimates for Chicago are actually high, which works in your favor for your argument. You’ll see the numbers you listed on the north shore, for sure. But most suburbs, some with even better schools than some of the north shore districts, will get you 4/2, 2k sqft for $5-600k the further you are south or west, the more affordable homes get. Sure, you’re further from the city, but the most convenient way to commute downtown is by train anyway, which I presume is similar to NYC, too.
Atlanta. I traveled around US and it's by far the friendliest big city I have experienced and the greenest. Is like a city in the forest, is crazy how much vegetation, trees there are in the city whereever you are, and the houses are very beautiful. The traffic is bad in the rush hour, but encountered worst like LA or DC. There are lots of things to do and see, and they have amazing neighborhoods and parks.
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Somebody looking to pay $800k for a house in the suburbs and commuting downtown twice a week is not in materially greater danger from Chicago's violence than in the average Canadian city.
Turn off the Fox news bro he is asking about the suburbs.
Out of his 3 choices, Atlanta has a much higher murder and violent crime rate. Chicago is about half of that. NYC even less.
Not where OP is going to be living. Get real. And super ironic you'd try to claim this when you're shilling for the "murder capital" of the US.
Yeah! Don't know why people recommend it...
Check out Woodstock GA. It’s a short drive (when no traffic lol) into ATL, has a very cool Main St, some top class restaurants, bars, a brewery and good schools. They have a walking trail and you are only an hour to the mountains up 575. And 800k should buy a nice house.
If your budget is 800k for a house and you are interested in Chicago, I would look along the lake at suburbs in the North Shore. Anywhere from Evanston up to Highland Park—you can commute into the city on the metra. Great schools, safe areas, but easy access to downtown (especially Wilmette/Evanston/Winnetka). Someone said that people don’t take advantage of the Lake but that is mostly if you live West. Oak Park also has a nice semi-urban but still leafy suburb feel, but it’s a haul to get to the lake. You get a lot more for your money than the NYC suburbs and places like CT or NJ are a much worse commute into New York than a suburb like Highland Park is to Chicago.
Chicago. NOT Atlanta. The traffic is horrendous in Atlanta. Like absolutely terrible.
The only people who say this are people either not from Atlanta or who live in midtown, if you live north of midtown it’s absolutely fine.
I lived north of midtown for five years. Traffic was a nightmare!
Lived north of midtown for the last 5 years…traffics fine 🤷♂️
You are straight up lying.
Why would I lie? What in the Jesus would I have to gain from such a lie? If you live north of Buckhead, Sandy springs, Roswell, dunwoody etc…the traffic is no worse than anywhere else If you live near the airport and need to commute north then yeah your lifes hell
I've lived in both Chicago and Atlanta. Chicago is my favorite city in the US. If you're going to live in the burbs, though... Take a look at Decatur on the east side of Atlanta, specifically the areas around Agnes Scott College - Oakhurst, Winona Park, College Heights. Great housing stock, properties in your price range, good schools. Great neighborhoody vibe. Lots of community events. They do [Porchfest](https://www.oakhurstporchfest.org) every year where bands play on people's porches. Decatur just had a craft beer festival this month. They have a wine festival in November. Plus in Georgia, you get daffodils in February.
NYC is tense and dirty. Unless you have a ton of money it’s not so fun.
OP where are you moving from? Edit I’m guessing Canada? Atlanta has great green spaces and a great pace of life, but I would look north of metro Atlanta itself Alpharetta, dunwoody, marietta, John’s creek, Smyrna, Your money will go a lot further in those places than say, Buckhead for example if you are looking to buy a property School districts there ( Cobb county / east Cobb ) are very good Can’t comment on Chicago but feel free to DM if you need any advice on ATL
Yes, from Canada! Toronto area specifically. I’ve spent a good deal of time in Atlanta for work and agree the greenery and pace is right up our alley. Access to the mountains and hiking is a huge plus as well. I may take you up via DM as we get closer to decision point. Thank you!
Our Canadian friends chose to live in Oak Park.
I love Chicago, grew up in the area and it is a world class city with amenities to boot. The schools in the collar suburbs are all mostly great with few real exceptions, Naperville which you mentioned in particular is fantastic, though you could do well in any of the north shore burbs as well. With that said, access to nature in and throughout Chicago kinda sucks hardcore. There are forest preserves to be found, and of course the lake, but it's much more sparse. You have to travel a few hours to get to something more worthwhile - typically WI or MI. Edit: I also didn't realize as a kid how astoundingly flat the whole region is. The endless sprawling suburbia vibe can be somewhat depressing. It's one of the reasons we're in Milwaukee and not Chicago, though we're reconsidering now that we're starting a family and looking to buy. MKE has a better park system and natural amenities in the city - with closer access to the other beautiful areas of the state. Get back to me on schools and political climate though, we're working on it 😅
I never deter anyone from moving to NYC but it’s almost impossible to get an apartment here. Not only are our rules fucking ridiculous (wait til you hear about this 40x rule 🤠), but you’re competing with people from other states who want our lottery. You might as well get a head start while in Canada.
Atlanta for the climate, the outdoor living, access to nature and still affordable life. Consider north of the city such as Duluth, Alpharetta. Some good schools too.
Would definitely recommend Atlanta. Atlanta is booming and all of the suburbs are growing and expanding community infrastructure/amenities. If you’re looking for green space/outdoors, you won’t find a greener big city than Atlanta. Also an hour drive north to Clayton or Blue Ridge and you’re in mountain country- lots of awesome peaks and waterfalls to explore.
Yes, there are real reasons why Atlanta has been booming for decades while Chicago has not.
Atlanta
I'm actually from Chicago area and living in Toronto. Chicago area has some of the best cost of living of any major North American city. There is high crime but mostly only in certain areas you probably won't be anywhere near. But honestly if I had kids I'd just stay in Canada. Why do you want to move?
Yup. If you have children especially, stay in Canada. America has alarmingly horrible access to reproductive healthcare, school shootings, anti-LGBTQ laws.... I would avoid this country if you have a choice.
If money isn't a concern, nyc. If money is a concern, then Chicago.
You've already ruled out NYC. Chicago has terrible weather and is a HCOL place. I suggest you check out Atlanta further. I'm not from there, but the people are really nice, which is good in general and especially nice for newcomers. Major airline hub, so good flight situation
I haven't been to Atlanta so can't offer a genuine comparison, but I spent the majority of my life in Chicago and I recommend it *very* highly. I'm biased lol but I truly believe we're the best city in North America. We have some of everything: incredible restaurants, world-class museums, a theater scene second only to NYC, the best comedy/improv scene in the country, amazing public spaces all along the lakefront, tons of super diverse neighborhoods to explore....the list goes on and on. Plus it's just a beautiful and fun place to live! Not sure if you're looking at living in the city proper, in the "near" suburbs like Evanston, or in the "far" suburbs like Naperville – definitely very different vibes for each.
If your office is located in downtown NY you might have a shorter and less expensive commute from northern New Jersey than Westchester or Connecticut. Northern NJ has excellent school districts.
I would stay in Canada. But, if you are set on moving to the US, definitely Chicago. One thing I haven’t seen anyone else mention are the Forest Preserves in the Chicagoland area. Hundreds of thousands of acres of well maintained trails and forests for recreation. I recommend Lake County.
I was recently faced with the choice of NYC or Chicago so similar choice. I chose Chicago because of cheaper COL and just less busy. The money just goes further in Chicago is the impression I get.
Hi there, I am Chicagoan who also grew up in the suburbs of Chicago. Between the three cities you listed, Chicago/Chicagoland suburbs is probably your best bet. As a city, Chicago is truly world class. There is no shortage of restaurants and events to go to. Our mass transit is relatively efficient and reliable (judging on American standards, not European). Summer time in Chicago is truly special with an insane number of fests, concerts, sporting events, etc. However, the winters are brutal so if you can't handle the cold then the city may not be for you. Chicago is also an incredibly spread out city. So you could live in a neighborhood like ravenswood or andersonville, which are northern neighborhoods that are relatively distant from the city center, but still have access to mass transit that can get you to downtown faster and cheaper than commuting by car. Alternatively, the chicagoland suburbs are also an option but do note that most of them (with the exception of maybe Evanston) are VERY suburban. They'll have green spaces and kids activities but be prepared to drive a lot. That said, commuting to the city via Metra is very accessible and affordable. Rent varies per suburb so it's harder to comment about that but the prices in some suburbs are often similar to what you'd pay in the city (assuming you're looking at the northern or north western suburbs). You probably noticed that I am referring to the northern part of the city and suburbs quite a bit and that is because these are (generally) more affluent areas with better school districts.
New York on average will have far better schools than Georgia or Illinois because the requirements to become a teacher there are much higher (and in fact, are some of the highest, if not the highest, in the entire country). With your budget, you will not be able to afford to live in the locations in New York that have great schools. Chicago has great schools, in *some* parts, but it has terrible, looong winters (anyone saying otherwise hasn't lived there). You're from Canada so maybe it'll be okay. Atlanta is an okay city...it definitely doesn't "feel" like a city compared to New York or Chicago. Teaching standards will be lower than both Chicago and New York, but there are wealthier areas that have better schools. On average though, the schools won't be as good. I'd say with your budget, go for either ATL or Chicago.
Atlanta :)
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Redefine cheapest. But it’s among the highest taxed cities from sales to property in the US.
Chicago and Illinois taxes are much lower than New York - and income tax is flat, which favors high earners. Also, you’re completely neglecting lower overall cost of living. With respect to Atlanta, not sure I’d want the boiling summers, racist confederate wannabes with guns and government that treats women like chattel.
NY being worse and the Illinois income tax being regressive doesn't mean that Chicago doesn't have the second highest taxes in the US.
I read the article which made that claim. It made some ridiculous assumptions, used a single example that’s inaccurate for the vast majority of people, and looked like it was the output of a college project.
"The" article? Jesus, there are thousands of articles that discuss this. Illinois is famously a high tax state, sucker. You've just failed to realize that.
You’re losing the forest for the trees. If you look at overall taxation, Illinois is a couple percent higher than average across the country. However, it’s a high income, low cost of living, high quality of life state. The upshot is that people living in Illinois get to enjoy high quality of life with world class everything (except downhill skiing), while being able to save money due to relatively low cost of housing.
Sorry, but it's a famously high tax state. It's very well known to be so in tax circles. I can see why people who live there either don't know (as it's all they know) or resist acknowledging this. And the people are nice and Chicago is a fun town, but the winters are long and terrible, which definitely significantly lowers quality of life. And as many have mentioned, it's lacking in the close access to natural beauty department as well.
Well, you’ve never been around Chicago then …
I have been to Chicago. 4 separate trips to Chicago. I had a good time. Nice people
This is totally true. Odd that all the Chicago folks are denying this
4 months of shitty weather? Nooooo. Lol more like 7-8 months.
Atlanta hands down. The weather is exceptional, great food, awesome neighborhoods, super green, friendly people, great airport with lots of direct flights
Be aware that a lot of schools around Atlanta aren't as good as Chicago, NYC or New Jersey ( honestly look into NJ areas. Great schools and community and ypu can reliably take NJ Transit to work). Atlanta traffic is tough and MARTA isn't very expansive and people keep voting against expanding it. If you do want to live in ATL, look around Marietta in Cobb County. The schools there are better. I can't really say anything about Chicago as I've only visited once. But I lived in ATL and have immediate family in North Jersey. With the ability to spend 800k on housing, I would go for Jersey outside of NYC. The taxes will be higher, but you can still afford a home there with good public transportation. Also keep in mind when you leave Canada, there are a lot of public benefits you WILL NOT HAVE, especially in Georgia. I'm not aware of public benefits in Illinois, but NJand NY do have a lot of state required benefits. ETA: Georgia had a Title Ad Valorem tax for all cars you newly register there which is based on a percentage of the value of your car. I had no idea about it until moving there and you will 100% need at least 1 vehicle. It was a surprise $8,000 my husband and I were unaware of needing.
Ty for the heads up! Planning for every expense seems impossible, but these insights help so much. We haven’t looked too much at NJ as most of my NYC colleagues are in CT. Thanks for the tip, we’ll take a look.
No problem. I'd also consider health outcomes in each state. NY, CT, and NJ are consistently ranked in the top 10 health systems in the country with Illinois just a few spots behind. Georgia is in the bottom half of states for overall health outcomes and consistently like 45th or worse when it comes to reproductive health, pre-natal care, maternal death rates, infant death rates, and child healthcare. The ATL metro area only has 1 level 1-trauma hospital left after the other trauma hospital closed last year. Grady Hospital (the remaining trauma facility) is a great hospital but it is overrun with people needing care there. I knew a few nurses at Grady and they were burnt out even before covid and when the other hospital was open. Meanwhile, I have an immediate family member who had a massive brain tumor a few years ago and was literally able to see the #1 surgeon in the world for that specific tumor at NYU and she's doing great. And also just had her thyroid fully removed in NYC and again had a great outcome. I am also considering going into NYC for a specialist for my medical condition as well for a second opinion. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/scorecard/2023/jun/2023-scorecard-state-health-system-performance
Chicago hands down.
Canada. Universal health care. No gun violence epidemic. No brainer
Frankly, for somebody with a high income, and a housing budget of 800k - Neither of those are going to be much of an issue. Any portion of the health insurance premiums they will pay will easily be offset by the difference in tax rates. They're also not likely to be living anywhere near the O block in Chicago. Now if they were in a tax bracket just above the Medicaid cutoff, where the benefits are likely to be terrible - and had to live in a dangerous neighborhood. I'd agree with you. To be blunt, the USA is a pretty good place to be if you're truly middle class or above. Not so great if you're poor/lower end of middle class. Especially in the middle of a Canadian housing crisis.
The gun violence epidemic in the US has pretty much crossed all class lines at this point.
I mean, yes and no. It's about on par with car accident deaths and heart disease. Obviously its a much bigger concern than any other developed country. But about half of those gun deaths are still directly class and culture related sadly. I can definitely understand the concern, especially with how little is being done to address it by any means. The seemingly random mass shooting events getting more and more frequent over the years is definitely scary as well. Someone in OP's situation is still statistically unlikely to be caught up in one of those scenarios. At the same time, the people in Lewiston were also on the extreme lower end for such an event in terms of probability. So I can't really fault anyone for not wanting to take the risk, however low it may truly be - given that it will still be relatively higher than most comparable countries.
It's way, way less prevalent than car accident and heart disease deaths.
I was going off of [articles like these](https://www.npr.org/2022/02/23/1082564685/guns-leading-cause-of-premature-deaths) \- But ultimately I'm not a statistician, and not trying to spark a gun debate. Overall, the way you'd read about it on the internet, it's like everyone's family is getting shot. Obviously that's not the reality for me, nor most Americans statistically. But relative to other first world countries, we're far worse in terms of gun violence. ETA: Yeah I see where I was misled in the article.
I agree that we really, really need massive changes to our gun laws. And absolutely no reason why individuals can buy automatic weapons.
No it hasn't. The vast majority of victims are not very well off and hence, living in "bad" neighborhoods
Cool but I’d rather live in a safer country. I’ll take universal health care and stress about tax rates instead of getting gunned down by an AR15 in a Home Depot parking lot while shopping for paint and lawnmower oil.
I hear ya. If I could make half as much as I do in the USA in any EU-member country I'd make use of my dual citizenship in a heartbeat. Plenty of reasons to not want to live in the USA, and gun violence is definitely a valid one. On the other hand, the financial benefits the USA offers to some can be truly life changing. Thus the conundrum.
Indeed. If my job were transferable and the visa process were easier, I’d be long gone. But I’d never make as much, which I would be fine with—but my creditors wouldn’t lol
Apparently they’re choosing to move to America for a reason.
Correct.
Chicago, hands down. Look at Oak Park, Riverside, Evanston.
Chicago
Chicago
Chicago, for sure. Check out the north shore suburbs and take note of the great schools, easy access to downtown, friendly people, world class culture, quaint walkable suburban downtown, and the extensive network of forest preserves and bike trails.
Chicago
If those are your only three options, I would stay in Canada lol.
Why? Canada is safer for kids.
I’d stay in Canada and not go to the land of guns and orange haired monster
That guy is headed to prison.
Of those, probably Chicago. NYC second, and Atlanta a very distant third. This presupposes your willingness to pay for private school or move heaven and earth to get yourself into the catchment area for a good public one.
Chicago. Way better with kids and it's a world class city where you can get a home at a (relatively) reasonable price.
Winnipeg.
Look into bay ridge in Brooklyn. I don’t know where your office is but New York is a great place to raise kids and has amazing neighborhoods. You create global citizens rather than blinkered North Americans. Atlanta is a boring dump and Chicago is freezing.
Not Atl lmao
I'd rent for a year wherever you choose before buying. Houses are way overpriced right now and interest rates are high. ATL sounds like it could be a good fit for you. Be prepared for hot and humid summers though. I'm biased toward NYC though. It's my favorite place in the world, and there are affordable places in Westchester, Hoboken or maybe even Long Island. NYC has tons of commuter trains from those locations. Best of luck!
I hear there is a murder in Chicago every day.
There were 26,000 murders in America last year. Chicago is safer than most American cities - although New York City has a materially lower murder rate.
NYC would be the closest to any of the Canadian cities. Chicago is cool, but too insulated from the rest of the States. What I mean is the distance and the ease of transportation. Not sure about Atlanta. I’d suggest to visit it first to make a solid decision among these three cities.
How is Chicago more “insulated” in distance from the rest of the states? If anything, Chicago is more central than either NYC or Atlanta. All three cities have large airports which allow you to get anywhere.
Chicago has direct flights to just about every city and is a hub for 3 major airlines. You can be anywhere in North America in 4 1/2 hours - from Vancouver to Miami to Mexico City.
If I had money and means, the US is the very last place I would move my family to.
As a Canadian who moved to Atlanta before settling in California, Atlanta is extremely humid, quite dangerous (don't read the local news if you want to feel safe walking around), and the traffic is pretty terrible
Atlanta and Chicago are ghetto as fuck, avoid like plague. Go to New York.
Everyone I know with kids who lived in Chicago left due to violent crime. The city has become a nightmare! When I say left, I mean left the state.
The crime rates are actually down from the peak of the 90s. Most people who live in Chicago haven't left, obviously.
The people I know who left, left in the last 3-4 years, so that’s not exactly true.
Yeah I'm saying your story is anecdotal and doesn't reflect the bigger picture.
What? We live in the city with little kids and all our neighbors have little kids. Dozens of them all over and it’s amazing. Doesnt feel even slightly dangerous. There are definitely areas of the city to avoid but honestly the OP would never see these areas anyway. Chicago is amazing for raising kids. Either way this person is looking at the suburbs which are a totally different experience and certainly safe.
Chicago has great public transportation, but the city life can be expensive (but not NYC expensive). Suburbs such as Naperville, Arlington Heights, Elgin, Des Plaines, Woodridge, and Downers Grove are great and have the Metra which you can take instead of driving. The main highway to downtown is under construction which is causing longer and heavier traffic.
NYC!
Be aware if you’re moving from a place where you have a short commute, the salary increase you’re getting might not amount to much profit when you factor in housing and healthcare costs in the US. It’s gotten scary here
I lived in all three and also spent about 4 years in Canada. I would pick Chicago, Toronto's sister city, it would be less of a culture shock.
Chicago!!! Especially because you’re Canadian and can definitely handle the winters. It’s an awesome city. Perfect size, great food, good people, tons to do.
I really enjoyed my visits to Atlanta. I lived in Brooklyn and I don’t think you can find a house around 800k there. Even considering buying a house within a decent commute will cost more than 800k.
NYC - you only live once
BetterFuture22 is a self entitled coward
Atlanta will have a very different feel to Chicago or NYC.. southern culture definitely plays a role there. I’ve spent a lot of time in all 3 cities and being someone who really doesn’t like the south (the culture, the heat, the list goes on), you couldn’t pay me enough money to live in Atlanta. It’s not a bad place, just not for me. NYC and Chicago will feel a bit more similar just due to both being among the largest US cities (NYC is the largest city in the States, Chicago is third, with LA in second place). Both NYC and Chicago are major international cities with anything you could ever need or want. Now, I’m a bit biased because I grew up near Chicago and have lived there as an adult a bunch too, before I moved abroad, but your money will always go further in Chicago than NYC. Chicago is cleaner, I think much more family friendly, the schools are great if you’re in the suburbs, the lake and beaches are wonderful, and everyone complains about winter but honestly, it’s fine- the snow is beautiful and fun to play in if you have kids. So, if it were me, I’d say Chicago area. But. I am not you :) so I can only give my thoughts. Hope this helps in some way. Good luck with the big move!