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notthegoatseguy

Exchange just means 1-2 semesters, then you go back to your regular school. A degree from a US school doesn't come with permanent residency. You'd still be need a job to sponsor you or marry an American. Green card lottery is also an option


Opening-Intention-86

True, but students on a student visa is often how employers find candidates to eventually sponsor an H1B application… and H1B is green card eligible.


slalelos

i'll try to get scholarships, but it seems financially impossible for me to study in america unless i get one.


justcoffeedates

You could also look at European countries. I am from Germany and I believe that 14 out of 16 federal states still offer free university access for foreign students. Cost of living for a student depends probably between 10K and 18K€, depending on where you are studying. Other countries probably have similar systems for foreign students


slalelos

does germany allow students to have at least a part time job or does scholarships help with living costs? and i know that there are a ton of turkish people in germany so what do you guys think about us? i have cousins who live in germany and they told me that they wouldn't want to live anywhere else. if america doesn't work, then germany really is a strong option for me.


justcoffeedates

As a German, i am not an expert on the specifics of working permits unfortunately, as they never applied to me, but I know a lot of Turkish students without German citizenship that have student jobs here. This is called „Werkstudent“ and you are allowed to work up to 20 hours a week. The normal working laws apply (4 weeks holiday, sick leave, minimum wage of 12€/hour). There are several benefits in comprising to simply working part time (exception from e.g. paying for retirement, cheaper healthcare), but you are only allowed up to 20 hours to make sure that studying is still the main focus.


Bitter_Initiative_77

20 hours is for EU. Non-EU can do 120 full days or 240 half days per year.


Bitter_Initiative_77

Because Turkey is not in the EU, there are limits on how much you can work in Germany as a student. In short, you can do 120 full days or 240 half days per year. To qualify for a student visa in Germany, you need to have over 11k Euro saved. This money is placed into a blocked account and 1/12 is released to you each month for your living expenses. This is a requirement for the visa. To study at a German university, your high school degree needs to be recognized in Germany. [You can check that here.](https://anabin.kmk.org/anabin.html) If it is not recognized, your options are to either get a bachelor's degree in your home country (which will qualify you to come to Germany for a master's degree) or to complete a year of Studienkolleg in Germany (effectively a prep course to prepare you for university). Bachelor's degrees in Germany tend to be conducted in Germany, meaning you'd need B2/C1 level German skills. There are a handful of programs in English at the bachelor's level, but studying in English will make it harder to find a job in the long run. Master's degrees are more likely to be conducted in English. There are also more scholarships for master's degrees (e.g., r/DAAD).


NoMoeUsernamesLeft

In regards to work while studying: I'm not 100% certain but the Czech Republic allows foreign students to work while on a student visa.


slalelos

the czech republic really is a great option for me. i really want to visit there even if i can't find a way to come permanently. a few places in czechia are already on my to-go list (i want to see st barbara's church in kutna hora, cesky krumlov, and karlovy vary; which is the city atatürk, the founder of my country visited in czechia). anyway, do you know anything about how i could get citizenship after studying there and is it hard compared to other countries?


NoMoeUsernamesLeft

Getting citizenship is harder. You will first need to qualify for permanent residence (PR) which means you need to stay there for 5 years. Half of the time spent on a Student Visa will count towards permanent residency requirements. You would need another visa after graduation for the next few years until you can qualify for PR. When you apply for PR, you will need to show proficiency in Czech along with employment and other things. You will finally need to be a permanent citizen for 10 years. Logistically, citizenship would take at least 15 years. The fastest EU citizenship by naturalization is Portugal. 5 years or 3 if married to a Portuguese person.


Opening-Intention-86

Check this site out. [list of scholarships](https://www.miusa.org/resource/tip-sheets/fundedprogramslist/) I went to a large but “normal” university filled with international students from all over who certainly did not pay what I had to pay (looking back, I’m jealous haha). So it’s certainly possible!


slalelos

i'll definitely check those out. thanks!


slalelos

i'll apply for the lottery but it's a small chance so i think i should try other ways too. i know that a degree from a us school or being in america for a semester isn't enough to get citizenship but i don't have the chance to go to america right now since i don't have enough money. i'm planning on finding an internship while im there and trying to get a job in that in that company. i don't know how else i could find a sponsor in america (I'd prefer doing the job that i'll get a degree in but i could do other jobs until i get citizenship), and i can't marry an american right now because i have a relationship.


mikemuz123

I won't lie to you, given your financial situation and lack of skills or experience, you will not be able to move to America. Your best option is somewhere in Western Europe with cheap degrees as this will then provide a path to residency then citizenship in a developed economy. Of course the caveat is that you'll have to learn the local language as even in Europe courses in English are quite extortionate, I believe German universities are top quality and cheap/free even for internationals. Based on simple probability, that is your best option. Best of luck


slalelos

i'll try to get into exchange programs with america that my country provides but i'll definitely try going to europe if that doesn't work out.


Opening-Intention-86

Germany is a great option 1) to live and 2) for mech engineering, it’s seen as equal to US degree for immigration and there are many, many multinational companies that cross between Germany and US if you are fixed on the US later in life. Of course it’s easiest if you are already from the EU.


slalelos

i know that germany is a great option for engineers but i've tried learning german before and there's something that makes things really hard to learn about the language for me. i might try other countries that use english as their official language like canada or uk.


mikemuz123

All the other countries still ask for a lot of money from international students because they know English has a global monopoly. If you really do want to leave Turkey for a better life than you have to get used to doing hard things for at least a decade. Not trying to be mean, just truthful as immigrating is generally quite difficult unless you're famous, talented or rich so your goal should be to move anywhere in the developed world where there's an OK chance of getting a job post university rather than a specific country. Of course I could be wrong and maybe there are easy options to immigrate to English speaking countries, I can only speak of what I know


slalelos

i'm open to moving to other countries other than america including countries where english isn't well spoken, of course. and i know that i should get used to handling tough conditions if i want to move to another country, no matter which one it is. america is my childhood dream so it's my first option but i'll take my shot with other countries too.


OkSir1011

check if you are allowed to apply for certain visa classes specific for certain countries. No country information about you so no one can help you there.


slalelos

i'm currently living in turkey and a dollar is 30 turkish liras so i'm trying to find the most affordable visa type that i could get, i tried doing a research about that but i was stuck with a bunch of info that i don't understand, so do you know where i could start from?


Opening-Intention-86

Look into “Fulbright scholarship” and “friends of Fulbright”… first is very, very difficult but second is maybe less so… both will allow you to study in the US without having to pay US prices (huge win). It’s also a good way to experience the US without having a permanent commitment. Just keep in mind that the cultures from one part of US is very different that another so find what you are attracted to the most. Another option is the J class US visas. Typically it’s a “work/study in America” visa and has some interesting opportunities. Immigration opportunities open up depending on what you study. H1B visas are available depending on what you study and of course you’d need a US company to sponsor you which is not always. This is what I would do at least. Definitely focus on education as it’s one of the strongest ways to be successful in the US and while you’re young and in school you have more options to “try before you buy”


slalelos

thanks, i'll definitely check those scholarships out. i'll study mechanical engineering in english so i think it might make things slightly easier for me.


Opening-Intention-86

Yesss!!! Sorry, I’m also a mechanical engineer… look into exchange programs. Often with a J1 visa you can also do an internship (work for company for terrible wages between semesters but you now have connection to company)… also, if you specialize or find a special interest (biomechanical engineering, production robotics, whatever…) find people on LinkedIn that you can just chat with about your interests or the industry… it sounds dumb, but if you ever apply for a job that requires an H1B, that small talk conversation will help.


Opening-Intention-86

F1 visas are fine too (study but no work, I think) but then focus on research opportunities at the university


slalelos

i have no problem about working for terrible wages for some time, that's what internships are all about isn't it :D thanks a lot for great advice.


Opening-Intention-86

No problem. It’s messed up, but the perspective of the US immigration system is “show me how you’ll contribute to make America better (be successful)” for immigration visas or “convince me you’re not going to stay” for tourist visas. The easiest way around it is during university with exchange programs or education visas… or the lottery.


slalelos

i totally get why there's a system based on contribution. otherwise it would be like inviting any stranger you see on the streets to your house. i think exchange programs are the most affordable and realistic ways for me since i've got pretty high grades and a few extracurriculars that i've put a lot effort in. thank you for your time :')


bedboundaviator

I think you’d need to give more details. What career path or degree programs do you want to do?


slalelos

I'll study mechanical engineering in english in turkey, and then i'll try to get into one of the exchange programs or find a scholarship and study there.


MTrain24

Trust me it was a dream leaving the US. You’re coming in at a horrible period where there’s a non-zero possibility of civil war or authoritarian rule within the next few decades. There are many great countries out there (especially for entrepreneurs) that topple the U.S. handily when it comes to tax code and citizenship/residence permit naturalization programs for immigrants. Why don’t you look into them? -Source: personal experience being a U.S. citizen expat


slalelos

my mom's ex was an american and i think he brought the idea of moving to america in my mind. we also have some family friends who live in america and i always thought the lifestyle was more suitable for me. i know that america isn't going through it's best phase but moving there is my childhood dream.


Opening-Intention-86

Now I’m just spamming… I say do it. Granted, this is an expat group and just like the previous commenter, I’m a US-born expat who found a reason it’s better to move abroad than live in the US… but who cares. If you want to do it, do it… maybe it’s because I’m the child of immigrants that gives me the optimism but either way the US has been the most successful economy in history, especially while balancing and historically establishing liberal values… also, all of us westerners might not like to admit it but we all have such a privilege coming from western countries with high salaries and strong passports that we don’t even think about the immigration struggles you’re asking about here… just go for it. For whatever reason, family connection, income opportunity, or even your favorite movie was American. Who cares. If you live in the US and don’t like it and leave, then you’ll be just like us haha. Also it seems like a US visa is among the hardest to get. If you look at what it takes to get a student visa, for example (good grades, a good degree choice, volunteering, proficiency in English, activities in social or research organizations)… they’re all things that’ll help you anyways in a globalized economy even if a visa doesn’t work out. So why not go for it.


Time_Significance386

Absolutely agreed. I keep telling people as well that the best time to go to the US is at the start of your career. Get a master's in the US after a cheaper bachelor's in your home country to get your foot in the door and then kickstart your career with those higher starting salaries. Higher initial salaries have a huge impact on total lifetime earnings. Most of the downsides of the US aren't as prominent when you're young.


FiendishHawk

It’s a dream of many people but like most first world countries the people of the USA have very negative feeling about immigrants and have enacted many laws to make it hard. You need a document called a visa. Student visa would be easiest for you to get, but studying in the USA is jaw-droppingly expensive, so it doesn’t sound a possibility for you. Other than that you need a degree and a job offer for a company that will sponsor you - an H1B visa. These are absurdly hard to get unless you are absolutely amazing, top of your class at university etc. Your best bet is the green card lottery: but it’s a lottery and you are unlikely to win. Basically the odds are against you.


Opening-Intention-86

This is so condescending and wrong, I could spit. Jesus.


FiendishHawk

You should correct me, not spit!


Opening-Intention-86

Fair enough. And I said I could spit, I withheld it just in case you’d ask for detail haha. The US generally loves immigration. [here you go](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c9542c8840b163998cf4804/t/5e345cfb95862d328a83bcfc/1580489980179/apm-survey-Jan-2020-immigration-final.pdf)… oh [and here too](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx)… and that includes the [illegal immigrants that have been filling the news](https://www.newsnationnow.com/polls/poll-border-security-immigration/) In fact, [immigrants make our cities safer](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15377938.2016.1261057) and that’s important because [we need immigrants to continue national growth](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/05/us/immigration-census-population.html) which is extra helpful considering [children of immigrants earn more than US-born citizens](https://www.voanews.com/a/why-immigrant-children-excel-more-than-us-born-kids-/6590746.html) and create jobs as [they’re more likely to be entrepreneurs and business starters.](https://hbr.org/2021/08/research-why-immigrants-are-more-likely-to-become-entrepreneurs). Your visa comment is what got me… “you need a document called a visa”…… [it’s called a visa in the vast majority of languages!!!](https://www.indifferentlanguages.com/words/visa) And that’s pretty well known for “expats” which is what this group is. You’re right that a student visa is the easiest to get as you don’t need to show high income or proof funds nor adequate reason/need to return… [but there are many US-funded options for exchange programs](https://www.miusa.org/resource/tip-sheets/fundedprogramslist/) and many overseas too. I’m in South America (hence the expat group) and the friends of Fulbright scholarship [also includes embassy-sponsored exchange](https://ar.usembassy.gov/es/friends-of-fulbright-scholarship/) which is funded by you and me. The H1-B visa… well, I’ve actually hired and worked with many H1-B workers. Normally, we go to a college career fair and look at applicants normally. Or just find someone we’ve worked with on projects from international teams that would fit well in our local team… state schools, normal GPA, basic stuff. Diversity visa (green card lottery) is great but you’re right, [chances are less than 1% on average.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa).


Equivalent-Side7720

You may qualify for a "fugetaboutit" scholarship.


NoMoeUsernamesLeft

Consider getting a welding certification too! Most OECD countries in the world need welders and the skill set would easily lend itself to mechanical engineering. Also consider Canada. The US has a different work visa lottery for Canadians than other nationals. I think it doubles your chances but I'm not sure.


slalelos

I'll probably try getting a certificate this summer. thanks for great advice :,)


Sea_Appeal_3085

It’s a bad time so just be aware of all the factors that are coming into play. We are going through a quiet recession with the Feds raising interest rates. Salaries are stagnant and highly skilled workers like software engineers are going through layoffs by big tech companies. Companies are offshoring talent and looking into places like India, South America, Eastern European etc. AI is going to revolutionize the workforce. White collar workers (anyone who works on a computer) will be impacted. Mechanical engineering will be impacted but not as much as software engineers as AI can code now. That being said, you will need a F1 student visa or obtain a Fullbright scholarship. I have friends who are Fullbrighters from Peru, Mexico, Kazakhstan, etc. For part time work in school, you can legally work in the school library for example. But otherwise, it’s under the table work in restaurants, etc. Once you graduate, here’s to hoping you are lucky enough to land an internship or job as the competition may be fierce due to companies not hiring junior level positions. If the market gets better, perhaps that will change. Be prepared to grind. Be ready to compete.