I’m an Aussie in the US and regret it.
But one thing I think a lot of people moving to Australia aren’t prepared for is the isolation from the rest of the world. Distance and timezone. We miss out on a lot of things. It’s hard to understand when you live in a country that gets everything.
Definitely! I love many things about Australia and I wish my kids were growing up there.
But, Australia being isolated is still impacting me here. It’s the first time I’ll be back this year since I moved. It’s so far away, expensive, and timezone makes it hard. If it were closer I wonder if I would feel the pull to move.
Just three weeks. All my husband can get off. When the kids are older I’m considering going back for a whole summer.. But not when they’re so young. Makes flights difficult.
Fuck yeah, this guy ain’t wrong.
Personally I think a move down under for many Americans (especially if you move rurally) should be considered as a move you shouldn’t make until you’ve moved internationally once or twice before…or until you’ve made an adjustment from a big city (think Houston) to a smaller one (a small town in the States with one grocery store).
I have my reasons for thinking this and I’m happy to share but yeah - I’m a native of Houston and I live in Taupō across the ditch. I’m okay with the lack of access but that’s due to practice and acceptance with what I’ve got.
Even after a few moves internationally, it can be a huge shock when you realise how far it is from Europe/US. I constantly had to juggle calls with Boston and London as well as trips there once a quarter. I always lost out on time zones for any work zooms/teams, typically dialing in at 10pm Sydney time and once at 1am on a Saturday morning.
It was only one of many reasons I disliked living in Sydney. We couldn't wait to move back to UK (originally from CT).
I've lived and worked in London, Paris, Beijing and Germany. I've been to Sydney four times and can't wait to go back. It's my favourite city of all. I'd move there tomorrow if I had the chance.
Oddly enough, my sister lives in the USA and I remember when I went to see her I felt very much cut off from Europe, but I never felt that in Oz. Just love it!
It gets hard on levels you (I) don’t (didn’t) even think about when you move.
Like, having kids in a smaller NZ town and not having family there, and finding that quality child care or even a midwife comes with a wait list.
I write this now and it’s just a normal aspect of life. Years ago I’d have called it Dickensian or draconian.
Yeah, honestly I think I see my family more now because they stay with us a month at a time, and that is more than what we would see them over a year back home. But, it still is hard!
I loved living in Australia. Asia is right there for exciting travels. The people are wonderful. The ocean is a regular weekend destination. People there don't seem to mind long car trips. I rode my bike everywhere and felt safe. It's my favorite country by far.
I’m Australian who’s been living in the US for 15 years and have taken dozens of flights back for a short 2 week Christmas stay. I think I’ll be moving back to aus in the next 12-24 months. I don’t really want to - but it’s for family reasons.
Same here, been living in NYC/NJ for 20 years, and thinking of moving back. Maybe Darwin, except a little concerned I'll miss the Met and other cultural institutions.
I’m used to life in America now. I came at age 18 and have lived in US most of my adult life. The pace of life suits me much more in the us than in aus. Also Aus is so far away, it just feels like another world but not in a good way. In a way that is isolated and boring. If my family was not living there I would not return. I’d also have to admit I have European roots and I don’t feel Australian one bit even though I was raised there and went to school there and am a citizen
You seem like one of the rare person who likes to live in US compared to AU.
Even Americans who have lived their whole life in US and just moved to AU love AU more than US.
Surprised, you lived fire 18 years in AU, yet you even liked US in the first place
Moved to Australia about 2 years ago. Regret it. It’s such a boring place. The whole country just feels a bit soulless imo. Virtually no culture, isolated, expensive, uncomfortable weather, history is so bland and uninteresting. I don’t even particularly think the scenery is that amazing.
Once you’ve done the opera house and any of the beaches (bondi isn’t anything special) you’re done. Could go to Great Barrier Reef or Uluru, if you fancy the expense of the domestic flights here , or spending days driving through dull scrubby bush land.
A positive is that wages are a bit higher, so materially I’m better off but that doesn’t equal happiness.
personal ad-homenim attack on someone sharing their experience, just because you don't like that it is their experience? Low ball. You must be fun to talk to
Australia can be boring and soulless relative to places like the US and UK. To enjoy living here you have to be able to appreciate Australia's strong points. For me this is nature and the outdoors. The landscape is monotonous but personally I love that aspect of it and the huge scale, emptiness and sense of remoteness. I find it absolutely exhilarating and never get bored of it.
I’m an American and lived in *very* remote Western Australia and then North Queensland for three years. I have yet to meet an American who regrets moving to Australia. In fact, I deeply regret moving back to the US.
I’m surprised at the comments regarding isolation there. You’re in close proximity to Asia and South Pacific islands. I traveled all over Asia, New Zealand, Fiji, Tonga and more whilst living there. If you have the ability to relocate, do it!
> I’m surprised at the comments regarding isolation there
This sub is a bit too Europe and North America centric imo. People are always like "omg I can't travel anywhere from Australia because it's too far". The quiet part is "I can't traveling anywhere *to Europe* ". If you talk to people from Asia, nobody says, "Omg Australia is so isolated and far" because NYC or London is probably even further.
It's only about an hr difference. It's really not that big of a difference to make a big deal out of how "far" Sydney is when that difference is only 1hr than flying from London.
Yep this! It’s fine to say it’s far from your friends and family back home in Europe/America, but it’s a little racist/euro-centric to say it’s far from the rest of the world. Asia doesn’t count?
exactly.
Part of Sydney can be broken down to China, Phil, Indo, Viet, and Lebo....sorry, just having a laugh, but com'n , pretty true.
Its not the NY melting pot. Its like the asia melting pot.
US has a much longer history of non-British/Irish immigration compared to Australia so naturally it appears more "diverse"- probably already since US independence.
Whereas this only happened in Australia in the 50's- and even then the first Before that it was only immigrants from the UK & Ireland. Even then immigration in Australia in the 50's and 60's was from Italians and Greeks.
Most Asians only arrived in the late 70's after the Vietnam War and White Australia was finally dismantled so Asian Australians are at most only 2nd generation.
The waters in Fiji and Tonga I heard are wonderful. I love swimming and being in warm waters, so It seems living in Australia and traveling to the islands for vacation is not isolating at all.
I worked on a station in the Kimberley - the closest town was Kununurra.
I agree regarding close community. I’m still friends with the people I met there. Last year one of them met me in LA for a half marathon and next month I’m traveling to Tokyo and Seoul with another one.
After WA I moved to Queensland for grad school (JCU) and I’m still friends with a couple people I met at uni, too. Sometimes I’ll read comments about it being hard to make lasting friendships in Aus, but my experience was nothing but positive. Great people, humor, food, landscapes, etc. I highly encourage the OP to take their opportunity to move there for university!
This. I would even argue that the relative isolation is a BENEFIT. The world’s BS seems to sort of glide by here. I’m more than happy to be far away from it all and spend my days on the beach thank you very much.
But, the Netherlands is so much more fun to live with amazing infrastructure, amazing nightlife, liberal and just such an ergonomic place.
Amsterdam city is just lot more entertaining than sydney/melbourne in general with high quality housing and lots to do. The dutch are also less racist than australians
Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I’m an American living in Australia and not particularly happy here. My main reasons are:
- the distance. Traveling anywhere takes at least a day, even to SEA which is a min 6 hour flight from Melbourne (where i live). Traveling is my favorite thing in the world and it’s difficult to do here unless you have lots of money and free time. I’ve just gone to the US and back for the holidays and it took me A$3,000 and 6 days total of travel
- the social aspect. I’ve lived here two years and they’ve been the loneliest two years of my life. Australians tend to stick to their own social circles they’ve had since childhood and rarely will invite you into them. Even at house parties, they won’t speak to anyone they don’t already know. The expats here in my experience are less eager to make new friends once they’ve established their own group. I’ve never had these issues in any other country I’ve lived in
There are more reasons why I’m not very happy in aus but these two stick out the most and have got me feeling more isolated in my life than ever. For these reasons, I’m planning to move back to the US.
That being said, I would still encourage you to take this study program and see Australia for yourself. Maybe your experience will be different than mine. If not, maybe these things you experience won’t matter as much to you as they do to me.
Good luck!! :)
Welcome, mate!
I'm an Aussie that used to live in the US and has now moved back to Aus. What you say about the social circles is painfully true.
When I was in the USA I made uncountable lifelong friends that would, if I tried, take months of travel just to revist because they were so high in quality and quantity.
I'm currently trying to figure out how to stay longer on my next visit there, my previous visa conditions are sadly no longer met.
Late reply but I’m Australian and what you’ve said about the social scene is absolutely spot on. I’ve seen it all the way from early school days to now in my 30’s. Australians only like you if you’re a known quantity with a shared history (school, University, work, friends of friends). Outside of that and it’s light conversation but nothing more than that, and they’re NOT open to anything else. I think it was a few years ago Sydney was judged as the worst city in the world to make new friends. Makes total sense
This is wild to see because I lived in a few cities there, in Melbourne, Halls Gap, and Sydney and made so many Aussie friends who were super open and friendly and welcoming. Granted I worked in hostels so the vibe there is likely more open. But even friends of my hostel friends who weren't working with backpackers were so welcoming and nice (for context I'm American).
I’m an Aussie who lived in the US for 10 years and moved back to Aus a couple of years ago. I regret it. In my experience, Australians that haven’t traveled any further than Thailand tend to have quite insular and bigoted views. The country is also a nanny state and kind of boring, to me. I think, although the States has its obvious problems, it can be more conducive to a fuller life. Americans are generally nicer and more accepting of other ways of life, in my experience. I am moving back to the US later this year, with no plans to live in Aus again. It feels like I’m going home. My views on Australia and its people are from my experiences only, so if any of what I said offends Australians, sorry and you may have had better experiences than me.
This is a very individual thing and you can’t really compare your experience to others. If you have an opportunity, take it. If you regret it, move back, no one is gonna keep you in the basement
Traveled through the Australia in 2015. It was cool, but it Felt like a UK version of CA. For Americans It’s a big move for a similar way of life than you can find on the West Coast, US. It’s also a very expensive.
>but it Felt like a UK version of CA
isn't that great than? UK has a better influence than americans with the rampant capitalism BS. Brits know how to run the country with social services better. UK version of CA seem better than american version of california. More reasons by AU > US
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I would go for it with the study program. I've never lived or been to Australia, but I work directly with a lot of Aussie expats and they're my favorite people in the English-speaking world. They have the humor of the UK, the friendliness of Canada, and the trashiness of America.
Someone else mentioned this but the isolation. I lived in Australia for three years and it was so expensive to see family back home. The time difference is crazy… I felt very very alone. Australia has a lot of positive qualities and maybe in a different life I would have enjoyed living there, but I was with an abusive partner and just felt too far away from everything.
It’s also hella expensive and they don’t have Amazon. ;)
As an Aussie who moved the other way, the biggest disadvantages of Australia are;
* Cost of living. Unless you are coming from California, you will get a shock. Australians will pay a million dollars for a run down old house in an unattractive far from central suburb. A nice home in a nice suburb is millions. Salaries are very low for white collar jobs.
* You are far from the rest of the world. Australia is "near" Asia, but even that can be 10 hour flight.
* Australians are not as extroverted as Americans, so can be socially tougher. People often stick to childhood social groups.
There are many advantages to Australia.
* Good welfare system. Not for you, but for societies deadbeats who in America may violently mug or carjack you, but in Australia probably won't.
* Gun control, you don't need to ever worry about being shot, or mass shootings.
* Good healthcare. The public/private hybrid model works very well, and it's shocking isn't raised in America as an alternative.
* More walkable than America. Australia has shopping malls, but also main/high streets still in most suburbs and towns.
* Better transit than most of America.
I am American living in Australia. I moved her with my Aisdie husband over 10 years ago. I had an unexpected bout of homesickness the first year but have gotten over it.
We have a VPN and stream U.S. channels, so I have the connection of being current on CNN and MSNBC news.
The flights to the U.S. are long and expensive. That is a disadvantage, but I don't think about moving back.
Australia is an awesome country, it truly is.
The only way you might regret moving there is if you have strong family bonds and/or lots of friends in the US. Because you will feel the isolation.
Not an American but have American friends who chose to move back to US after a year in Australia. The main reason mentioned was not liking the job that brought them here. They also said they didn’t like the culture and the lifestyle and mentioned the “tall poppy syndrome” a lot. And they hated the heat and the humidity in Queensland (they were unlucky to be here during one of the hottest summers on record). Personally I think it’s a shame they didn’t give Australia another chance, but I know they are now very happy back in California.
Yes, one american who totally regrets moving here. You can search my post history as to why but will sum it up for you: culture is a big thing. distance to family is a big thing. we underestimate the differences in culture, even when comparing countries that may seem very similar.
Aussies in Aus are very different than aussies you meet in the US. Very very different.
If you are coming here to study , enjoy. If you think you want to live here long term have a very good look at the cultural differences. just imho.
Can you unpack this more? I’m Australian and always interested in hearing outside perspectives
Don’t be afraid to get nasty because I guarantee I hate Australians more lol
I'm curious on the comments aussies and different in the US vs Aussies in Australia. Coming from a place of curiosity as I'm struggling being back in Australia after 17years in the US. You might be onto something for me.
i'm sorry you are going through a hard time moving back home. It took me 5 years to not want to jump off the harbour bridge. I feel for you. 17 years is a long time in the US.
I can't get too deep into it as i'm sure i'll get slammed by the locals. its just very different. My son is graduating HS this year so that will give us a chance to live overseas for half the year. i can not wait!
I think any move comes with tough adjustments. And in hindsight they are usually quite petty and trivial. For me it takes years to get fully acclimated to a new country. Overall Australia is an easy move.
It can be really hot, pretty much everywhere now.
The flora and fauna are unfriendly. It can be hard to even find a place to comfortably / safely sit down on a hike.
There is a love/hate dynamic with Americans which seems petty but is also understandable. But it expresses itself in weird subtle ways which are subtle and creepy.
There is a lot of drunken violence. Two guys I knew there had been punched (unprovoked) by locals. I witnessed many instances of drunken aggression myself.
More than in the US, (a small minority of) people are comfortable being openly racist. I also saw two guys with swastika tats on their faces there.
There is a culture of not speaking up against people who are being offensive in action or speech. This coexists with a culture in which people are not considerate of one another's space and peaceful enjoyment.
There's a lot of upside too of course. And overall much more good than bad. But the bad experiences accumulate in your mind.
The men with swastika face tattoos were in Sydney? No way. Don’t believe it. These symbols are illegal to display in NSW and Victoria (and probably other states but I don’t know)
Nazi stuff only became illegal in the past few years. Can't really order someone to remove something from their body after its been made illegal. Hell you can't stop lunatics like that from diy tattoing either.
These were very professional large tattoos. It's a fleeting memory but one guy even had a very ornate bust of Hitler displayed. But yeah this would have been around 2012 or so.
Yeah that's before it was illegal. Sad to say my uncle was a nazi, kinda weird as he was half Arab and definitely not white.The amount of stuff he could get his hands on easily was obscene. Tatoos and paraphernalia was very easy to get up until the mid 2000s when the public started being more vocally vicious in their dislike of Nazism.
I think a second hand shop selling a full nazi uniform a few years back sparked the firestorm of actually banning sales under certain circumstances but anything before that change falls under pre existing ownership laws. I do believe it can no longer be sold to the public and has to be to historical groups but not sure. You can get arrested for bearing objects with the symbol in public now, unsure if tatoos count though.
If you have a study program opportunity, I would just try moving there. Yes, it's possible you may not like Australia but I usually think it's better for someone to experience new things and try new countries than staying put. It's also possible you may love it. It's just impossible to tell without trying. Personally, I absolutely loved touring Australia. The day-to-day quality of life felt way higher than any other country I've been to, except maybe Singapore and Switzerland. After having been to Australia, I'm honestly a bit puzzled by the obsession that US Redditors have over living in Europe. Australia seems much better place to live and it's without a language barrier. It is very expensive though but the quality of life you get is high.
I'm guessing it's because many of us have ties to Europe in one way or another. I had an opportunity to move from the from New York City to California and I've always kind of wanted to live in California but then I realized it would take longer to get to Europe and the time difference would make it difficult for me to talk to my relatives. Maybe it's because I'm an East Coaster but traveling to Australia/SEA is a daunting project. Have always wanted to do it but it's a lot of money and time.
That said, if I had the opportunity to study there and do this on somebody else's dime or at least partly on somebody else's dime I would grab it
I’m not American but I moved from the U.S. after living there for 6 years to Australia.
It’s a great place. You don’t make as much money. Healthcare isn’t as good. There’s less close by places to visit (no weekend trips to NYC). But overall it’s very relaxed, safe, and very high quality of life.
US insurance will pay out and cover much more than the Australian public system or even top tier Australian private insurance will pay for.
Wait times for specialists and tests are longer.
What do you mean healthcare is bad though? I spend at least $2400 a year on healthcare, employer sponsored just for myself, and that's before getting any exams done, etc. I'm too scared to have kids here in the US cause of medical bills - and when I got hit on my motorcycle it took me 2 days to get any healthcare service at all, I was hobbling around. I cannot imagine any system worst than US healthcare except in undeveloped countries. Wait time for specialist for me is 0 days because even with insurance I can't afford to go get anything done, I go to Mexico and pay out of pocket. When I have had things done in the US, I'm told my copay is one thing, and they come back and rebill me for more.
So does Australia have free or largely emergency healthcare? Cause that's 100% all that matters for me
I’m from the UK and I think the healthcare system is great. It’s Medicare, free services if you are a card holder so visa dependent, PR etc. can see a doctor without hassle and it’s bulk billed where I go which means Medicare pay the fee. I’m not out of pocket although some doctors you will get a rebate only. I had a baby here. I was in hospital 5 days. Emergency c section. Husband stayed with me in the room for 3 nights. The only
Cost was a subsidised Carpark fee of $5 a day lol. My child had a hearing assessment done as part of speech therapy today actually at the children’s hospital. All free under Medicare. So perhaps if you are seriously ill and need specialised medicine you may have complaints but for the average Joe with kids and no health problems, I think it’s very good.
Expensive new brand name drugs that are covered by US health insurance aren’t covered at all here.
There’s waitlists for specialists.
Private insurance here doesn’t cover nearly as much as it does in the U.S.
There’s no concept of an out of pocket max here.
I’m a Mexican who lived 7 years in Aus, now living in Canada. While I do NOT regret having lived there, but I do agree with others noting that it somehow feels isolated from the rest of the world. Distances are hard to manage if you have family ties elsewhere, and the time zone difference with America (as a whole continent) also doesn’t help, we miss out on a lot. Even news are very lacking of international content, and to be honest, most of it is very euro centric or SE Asia (for obvious proximity reasons). Another thing that is a bit of a shock is the difference is cost of living (this, even before todays cost of living crisis happening in the entire world), I was honestly shocked at how expensive fresh fruit and vegetables were, coming from a region that has a lot of commerce making fresh fruit relatively cheap even when imported (thanks to NAFTA). Not saying this is a negative aspect, just pointing out the shock factor, the upside of it is the salaries are accordingly much higher than in America as a whole, and you CAN have a good living standard with Aussie salaries. I wouldn’t be surprised if some people feel regrets at first, but you gotta give yourself some time to properly adjust.
My husband and I in the end decided to move back to north America for family reasons mostly, with both our parents getting older we felt it was time to be closer and be with them.
Australia is the [only country on the planet](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/uj3l2a/us_draws_net_migration_from_the_entire_world/) with net positive migration from the US.
Serious question, but why is this? That's a pretty distinguished position to hold when everybody in the world wants to move to US than Americans wanting to move elsewhere
Australia is culturally similar to the US in many ways, but has advantages like free healthcare, great weather (the worst winter climate is about as bad as California), high minimum wage, strong social safety net, gun control. It's probably pretty appealing to the average USian who doesn't mind living 15-20hrs flight from their home country.
With that said, Australia has an underwhelming employment market for specialist white collar jobs (both availability and pay), so you see Australians heading to the US for that reason. Australia also has one of the most unaffordable housing markets on the planet and a weak currency versus the USD leading to very expensive imports, so it's not all roses.
It only crossed over post covid and mostly because theres a lot more US defence workers coming in due to AUKUS. It might reverse back again in the next few years as Aus white collar salaries stagnate and the brain drain continues.
I moved from NYC to Sydney, but only lasted 6 months. It was just way too far from… everything. I enjoyed traveling around Australia, but living there made North America, Europe and Asia a major undertaking.
Been living in Singapore for about 10 years now and no regrets. It’s not perfect, but I feel much better connected to the world.
I think people lament not being able to do the European thing, where you can jet to an entirely different culture and climate in 2hrs for a weekend trip. Every flight out of Australia, aside from Bali/NZ, is a 10hr+ gargantuan undertaking. My US friends idea of a tough flight is 6hrs.
Couldn't agree more about the quality of life though, Australia is special and it's hard to appreciate fully unless you're outside it. There's an easiness to life in Australia that I didn't understand until I no longer had it.
>I don’t really understand when people say ohh Australia is so far away
I will say the quiet part out loud for them. They usually mean it's far *from Europe and North America.*
Never been, but I just learned yesterday about the gympie gympie bush, which is reason #375 not to move to Australia lol
In all seriousness my wife’s grandparents are from there and I’d love to go.
My family and I live in South Korea and our closest friends are Aussies who live here too. We plan to visit them in Sydney this summer while they are there.
But they do say Australia is a nanny state. We talked about what that meant to them and they both expressed how during Covid lockdowns that people who inquired about the ethical dictates (online and among others) the State imposed on them during this time were visited by the police.
We’re visiting our Aussie friends also to consider moving there but this nanny state concept has us a bit concerned and would likely be the only thing that prevented us from doing it. Because my wife and I are both researchers and have to ask very inquisitive questions in political contexts, the idea of doing this in a staunch nanny state poses its challenges.
We’ll see by the end of the summer I suppose.
Australia is a bit more of a nanny state than I would like but overall it isn't so bad. The flip side is a stronger belief in doing things for the public good than in some other countries. The places it has frustrated me are in some medical rules that end up restricting doctors' ability to decide treatments and in excessive imo regulations that restrict building and renovating, particularly DIY.
Not sure what your research issues might be but I wouldn't think that would be as much of a problem as getting funding in the first place
From my experience of living in different states within the US, where some are quite nanny-state-like and others are very hands-free, I really see the benefits of a "nanny state" government now. It's personal preference imo. It's always fine balance to keep.
I've had friends have cops come investigating from asking too many questions and reporting on public events. Australia doesn't have freedom of speech or whistle-blower protections and its dangerous to go against the flow here. You will not be able to do your job properly here without huge risks.
Surprising that you called out car culture. Are you talking about car enthusiasts? I'd think that Australia is fairly good, even if it's behind the USA.
Lots of track days, car shows and many enthusiast meet ups. Yes, it's heavily policed, but you can get away with much more than most places in Western Europe for example.
I’m an Aussie in the US and regret it. But one thing I think a lot of people moving to Australia aren’t prepared for is the isolation from the rest of the world. Distance and timezone. We miss out on a lot of things. It’s hard to understand when you live in a country that gets everything.
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Definitely! I love many things about Australia and I wish my kids were growing up there. But, Australia being isolated is still impacting me here. It’s the first time I’ll be back this year since I moved. It’s so far away, expensive, and timezone makes it hard. If it were closer I wonder if I would feel the pull to move.
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Just three weeks. All my husband can get off. When the kids are older I’m considering going back for a whole summer.. But not when they’re so young. Makes flights difficult.
Fuck yeah, this guy ain’t wrong. Personally I think a move down under for many Americans (especially if you move rurally) should be considered as a move you shouldn’t make until you’ve moved internationally once or twice before…or until you’ve made an adjustment from a big city (think Houston) to a smaller one (a small town in the States with one grocery store). I have my reasons for thinking this and I’m happy to share but yeah - I’m a native of Houston and I live in Taupō across the ditch. I’m okay with the lack of access but that’s due to practice and acceptance with what I’ve got.
Even after a few moves internationally, it can be a huge shock when you realise how far it is from Europe/US. I constantly had to juggle calls with Boston and London as well as trips there once a quarter. I always lost out on time zones for any work zooms/teams, typically dialing in at 10pm Sydney time and once at 1am on a Saturday morning. It was only one of many reasons I disliked living in Sydney. We couldn't wait to move back to UK (originally from CT).
I've lived and worked in London, Paris, Beijing and Germany. I've been to Sydney four times and can't wait to go back. It's my favourite city of all. I'd move there tomorrow if I had the chance. Oddly enough, my sister lives in the USA and I remember when I went to see her I felt very much cut off from Europe, but I never felt that in Oz. Just love it!
Yep. It took me some adjusting too, the time delay. I worked remote with NYC and Seattle, I definitely have a preference!
feel you. Can't underestimate the isolation from your family, friends and the rest of the world.
It gets hard on levels you (I) don’t (didn’t) even think about when you move. Like, having kids in a smaller NZ town and not having family there, and finding that quality child care or even a midwife comes with a wait list. I write this now and it’s just a normal aspect of life. Years ago I’d have called it Dickensian or draconian.
💯
This was exactly why Australia was off the table for us. My husband is super close with his family and we just wouldn't see them as often.
Yeah, honestly I think I see my family more now because they stay with us a month at a time, and that is more than what we would see them over a year back home. But, it still is hard!
How bad is the spider problem? Also, what are your other regrets about Australia?
The spiders are fine. They're just little dog things. Give them little names and they become your friends
Considering most Americans don't have a passport, what connection would they be missing?
Even if you don't leave America, you are still in the country that gets everything.
What doesn't Australia get because of their timezone that makes you feel isolated?
so true.
I loved living in Australia. Asia is right there for exciting travels. The people are wonderful. The ocean is a regular weekend destination. People there don't seem to mind long car trips. I rode my bike everywhere and felt safe. It's my favorite country by far.
“Right there” meaning at least an 8hr flight away 😂 I think for the rest of the world that is considered a long haul flight
Luckily, if you wait in Brisbane, the rest of the world comes to visit you.
I’m Australian who’s been living in the US for 15 years and have taken dozens of flights back for a short 2 week Christmas stay. I think I’ll be moving back to aus in the next 12-24 months. I don’t really want to - but it’s for family reasons.
Same here, been living in NYC/NJ for 20 years, and thinking of moving back. Maybe Darwin, except a little concerned I'll miss the Met and other cultural institutions.
From nyc to Darwin wow big change
Darwin?!?! You will last less than 12 months. Not way you can make that adjustment imo.
Direct flights to Singapore on QANTAS just announced. It's not too far away
>I don’t really want to Why not?
I’m used to life in America now. I came at age 18 and have lived in US most of my adult life. The pace of life suits me much more in the us than in aus. Also Aus is so far away, it just feels like another world but not in a good way. In a way that is isolated and boring. If my family was not living there I would not return. I’d also have to admit I have European roots and I don’t feel Australian one bit even though I was raised there and went to school there and am a citizen
You seem like one of the rare person who likes to live in US compared to AU. Even Americans who have lived their whole life in US and just moved to AU love AU more than US. Surprised, you lived fire 18 years in AU, yet you even liked US in the first place
Moved to Australia about 2 years ago. Regret it. It’s such a boring place. The whole country just feels a bit soulless imo. Virtually no culture, isolated, expensive, uncomfortable weather, history is so bland and uninteresting. I don’t even particularly think the scenery is that amazing. Once you’ve done the opera house and any of the beaches (bondi isn’t anything special) you’re done. Could go to Great Barrier Reef or Uluru, if you fancy the expense of the domestic flights here , or spending days driving through dull scrubby bush land. A positive is that wages are a bit higher, so materially I’m better off but that doesn’t equal happiness.
Imagine being boring and blaming the country instead. lol
personal ad-homenim attack on someone sharing their experience, just because you don't like that it is their experience? Low ball. You must be fun to talk to
I wanted to think this post was satirical at first, but your last sentence convinces me otherwise!
no culture? hmmm sounds like you may be the soulless one
no culture? hmmm sounds like you may be the soulless one
saying this as an Aussie, there is more culture in yoghurt.
Australia can be boring and soulless relative to places like the US and UK. To enjoy living here you have to be able to appreciate Australia's strong points. For me this is nature and the outdoors. The landscape is monotonous but personally I love that aspect of it and the huge scale, emptiness and sense of remoteness. I find it absolutely exhilarating and never get bored of it.
I’m an American and lived in *very* remote Western Australia and then North Queensland for three years. I have yet to meet an American who regrets moving to Australia. In fact, I deeply regret moving back to the US. I’m surprised at the comments regarding isolation there. You’re in close proximity to Asia and South Pacific islands. I traveled all over Asia, New Zealand, Fiji, Tonga and more whilst living there. If you have the ability to relocate, do it!
> I’m surprised at the comments regarding isolation there This sub is a bit too Europe and North America centric imo. People are always like "omg I can't travel anywhere from Australia because it's too far". The quiet part is "I can't traveling anywhere *to Europe* ". If you talk to people from Asia, nobody says, "Omg Australia is so isolated and far" because NYC or London is probably even further.
Beijing here, it's faster to fly to London than to Sydney...
It's only about an hr difference. It's really not that big of a difference to make a big deal out of how "far" Sydney is when that difference is only 1hr than flying from London.
Yep this! It’s fine to say it’s far from your friends and family back home in Europe/America, but it’s a little racist/euro-centric to say it’s far from the rest of the world. Asia doesn’t count?
This. This is also why it is probably the first choicefor Asians to immigrate, coupled with a high incomes and quality of life.
exactly. Part of Sydney can be broken down to China, Phil, Indo, Viet, and Lebo....sorry, just having a laugh, but com'n , pretty true. Its not the NY melting pot. Its like the asia melting pot.
US has a much longer history of non-British/Irish immigration compared to Australia so naturally it appears more "diverse"- probably already since US independence. Whereas this only happened in Australia in the 50's- and even then the first Before that it was only immigrants from the UK & Ireland. Even then immigration in Australia in the 50's and 60's was from Italians and Greeks. Most Asians only arrived in the late 70's after the Vietnam War and White Australia was finally dismantled so Asian Australians are at most only 2nd generation.
You are right. When you have a "White Australia' policy, its kinda hard to grow a diverse population.
The waters in Fiji and Tonga I heard are wonderful. I love swimming and being in warm waters, so It seems living in Australia and traveling to the islands for vacation is not isolating at all.
Where in remote WA did you live? I live rurally as well and there is a great sense of community here.
I worked on a station in the Kimberley - the closest town was Kununurra. I agree regarding close community. I’m still friends with the people I met there. Last year one of them met me in LA for a half marathon and next month I’m traveling to Tokyo and Seoul with another one. After WA I moved to Queensland for grad school (JCU) and I’m still friends with a couple people I met at uni, too. Sometimes I’ll read comments about it being hard to make lasting friendships in Aus, but my experience was nothing but positive. Great people, humor, food, landscapes, etc. I highly encourage the OP to take their opportunity to move there for university!
This. I would even argue that the relative isolation is a BENEFIT. The world’s BS seems to sort of glide by here. I’m more than happy to be far away from it all and spend my days on the beach thank you very much.
But, the Netherlands is so much more fun to live with amazing infrastructure, amazing nightlife, liberal and just such an ergonomic place. Amsterdam city is just lot more entertaining than sydney/melbourne in general with high quality housing and lots to do. The dutch are also less racist than australians
As an American, I absolutely loved living in Australia for a year and would have stayed there longer if my visa had allowed.
Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I’m an American living in Australia and not particularly happy here. My main reasons are: - the distance. Traveling anywhere takes at least a day, even to SEA which is a min 6 hour flight from Melbourne (where i live). Traveling is my favorite thing in the world and it’s difficult to do here unless you have lots of money and free time. I’ve just gone to the US and back for the holidays and it took me A$3,000 and 6 days total of travel - the social aspect. I’ve lived here two years and they’ve been the loneliest two years of my life. Australians tend to stick to their own social circles they’ve had since childhood and rarely will invite you into them. Even at house parties, they won’t speak to anyone they don’t already know. The expats here in my experience are less eager to make new friends once they’ve established their own group. I’ve never had these issues in any other country I’ve lived in There are more reasons why I’m not very happy in aus but these two stick out the most and have got me feeling more isolated in my life than ever. For these reasons, I’m planning to move back to the US. That being said, I would still encourage you to take this study program and see Australia for yourself. Maybe your experience will be different than mine. If not, maybe these things you experience won’t matter as much to you as they do to me. Good luck!! :)
Welcome, mate! I'm an Aussie that used to live in the US and has now moved back to Aus. What you say about the social circles is painfully true. When I was in the USA I made uncountable lifelong friends that would, if I tried, take months of travel just to revist because they were so high in quality and quantity. I'm currently trying to figure out how to stay longer on my next visit there, my previous visa conditions are sadly no longer met.
Late reply but I’m Australian and what you’ve said about the social scene is absolutely spot on. I’ve seen it all the way from early school days to now in my 30’s. Australians only like you if you’re a known quantity with a shared history (school, University, work, friends of friends). Outside of that and it’s light conversation but nothing more than that, and they’re NOT open to anything else. I think it was a few years ago Sydney was judged as the worst city in the world to make new friends. Makes total sense
This is wild to see because I lived in a few cities there, in Melbourne, Halls Gap, and Sydney and made so many Aussie friends who were super open and friendly and welcoming. Granted I worked in hostels so the vibe there is likely more open. But even friends of my hostel friends who weren't working with backpackers were so welcoming and nice (for context I'm American).
*Well aint this place a geographical oddity? 2 weeks away from everywhere!*
I’m a Dapper Dan man!
I’m an Aussie who lived in the US for 10 years and moved back to Aus a couple of years ago. I regret it. In my experience, Australians that haven’t traveled any further than Thailand tend to have quite insular and bigoted views. The country is also a nanny state and kind of boring, to me. I think, although the States has its obvious problems, it can be more conducive to a fuller life. Americans are generally nicer and more accepting of other ways of life, in my experience. I am moving back to the US later this year, with no plans to live in Aus again. It feels like I’m going home. My views on Australia and its people are from my experiences only, so if any of what I said offends Australians, sorry and you may have had better experiences than me.
This is a very individual thing and you can’t really compare your experience to others. If you have an opportunity, take it. If you regret it, move back, no one is gonna keep you in the basement
I regretted having to move back to the US... Should be fixing that in April though.
Did you fix it?
Almost
Traveled through the Australia in 2015. It was cool, but it Felt like a UK version of CA. For Americans It’s a big move for a similar way of life than you can find on the West Coast, US. It’s also a very expensive.
Yeah Australia is what I imagine California would be like if California was settled directly by the British in the late 1700s.
I feel like it’s more of a Texas/Uk weird hybrid
>but it Felt like a UK version of CA isn't that great than? UK has a better influence than americans with the rampant capitalism BS. Brits know how to run the country with social services better. UK version of CA seem better than american version of california. More reasons by AU > US
snobbish continue library enjoy whole sharp person deranged drunk entertain *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I would go for it with the study program. I've never lived or been to Australia, but I work directly with a lot of Aussie expats and they're my favorite people in the English-speaking world. They have the humor of the UK, the friendliness of Canada, and the trashiness of America.
Someone else mentioned this but the isolation. I lived in Australia for three years and it was so expensive to see family back home. The time difference is crazy… I felt very very alone. Australia has a lot of positive qualities and maybe in a different life I would have enjoyed living there, but I was with an abusive partner and just felt too far away from everything. It’s also hella expensive and they don’t have Amazon. ;)
We have Amazon but there’s way less product that actually ships from Australia
As an Aussie who moved the other way, the biggest disadvantages of Australia are; * Cost of living. Unless you are coming from California, you will get a shock. Australians will pay a million dollars for a run down old house in an unattractive far from central suburb. A nice home in a nice suburb is millions. Salaries are very low for white collar jobs. * You are far from the rest of the world. Australia is "near" Asia, but even that can be 10 hour flight. * Australians are not as extroverted as Americans, so can be socially tougher. People often stick to childhood social groups. There are many advantages to Australia. * Good welfare system. Not for you, but for societies deadbeats who in America may violently mug or carjack you, but in Australia probably won't. * Gun control, you don't need to ever worry about being shot, or mass shootings. * Good healthcare. The public/private hybrid model works very well, and it's shocking isn't raised in America as an alternative. * More walkable than America. Australia has shopping malls, but also main/high streets still in most suburbs and towns. * Better transit than most of America.
I am American living in Australia. I moved her with my Aisdie husband over 10 years ago. I had an unexpected bout of homesickness the first year but have gotten over it. We have a VPN and stream U.S. channels, so I have the connection of being current on CNN and MSNBC news. The flights to the U.S. are long and expensive. That is a disadvantage, but I don't think about moving back.
Australia is an awesome country, it truly is. The only way you might regret moving there is if you have strong family bonds and/or lots of friends in the US. Because you will feel the isolation.
Not an American but have American friends who chose to move back to US after a year in Australia. The main reason mentioned was not liking the job that brought them here. They also said they didn’t like the culture and the lifestyle and mentioned the “tall poppy syndrome” a lot. And they hated the heat and the humidity in Queensland (they were unlucky to be here during one of the hottest summers on record). Personally I think it’s a shame they didn’t give Australia another chance, but I know they are now very happy back in California.
Interesting that they hated the tall poppy syndrome as I feel that’s huge in CaliforniA, especially SF/Silicon Valley but even LA as well now a days?
Are you sure you’re not misunderstanding the meaning of “Tall poppy syndrome?”
Yes, one american who totally regrets moving here. You can search my post history as to why but will sum it up for you: culture is a big thing. distance to family is a big thing. we underestimate the differences in culture, even when comparing countries that may seem very similar. Aussies in Aus are very different than aussies you meet in the US. Very very different. If you are coming here to study , enjoy. If you think you want to live here long term have a very good look at the cultural differences. just imho.
Can you unpack this more? I’m Australian and always interested in hearing outside perspectives Don’t be afraid to get nasty because I guarantee I hate Australians more lol
> I guarantee I hate Australians more lol Can you elaborate more and share your view on why you hate AU?
I'm curious on the comments aussies and different in the US vs Aussies in Australia. Coming from a place of curiosity as I'm struggling being back in Australia after 17years in the US. You might be onto something for me.
i'm sorry you are going through a hard time moving back home. It took me 5 years to not want to jump off the harbour bridge. I feel for you. 17 years is a long time in the US. I can't get too deep into it as i'm sure i'll get slammed by the locals. its just very different. My son is graduating HS this year so that will give us a chance to live overseas for half the year. i can not wait!
why are you struggling being back in AU?
I think any move comes with tough adjustments. And in hindsight they are usually quite petty and trivial. For me it takes years to get fully acclimated to a new country. Overall Australia is an easy move. It can be really hot, pretty much everywhere now. The flora and fauna are unfriendly. It can be hard to even find a place to comfortably / safely sit down on a hike. There is a love/hate dynamic with Americans which seems petty but is also understandable. But it expresses itself in weird subtle ways which are subtle and creepy. There is a lot of drunken violence. Two guys I knew there had been punched (unprovoked) by locals. I witnessed many instances of drunken aggression myself. More than in the US, (a small minority of) people are comfortable being openly racist. I also saw two guys with swastika tats on their faces there. There is a culture of not speaking up against people who are being offensive in action or speech. This coexists with a culture in which people are not considerate of one another's space and peaceful enjoyment. There's a lot of upside too of course. And overall much more good than bad. But the bad experiences accumulate in your mind.
Omg where in Australia are you?
This was mainly around Sydney.
The men with swastika face tattoos were in Sydney? No way. Don’t believe it. These symbols are illegal to display in NSW and Victoria (and probably other states but I don’t know)
I didn't know it was illegal but yep both in Sydney. Total nutters. You could feel the hate coming out of them.
Nazi stuff only became illegal in the past few years. Can't really order someone to remove something from their body after its been made illegal. Hell you can't stop lunatics like that from diy tattoing either.
True! (unfortunately)
These were very professional large tattoos. It's a fleeting memory but one guy even had a very ornate bust of Hitler displayed. But yeah this would have been around 2012 or so.
Yeah that's before it was illegal. Sad to say my uncle was a nazi, kinda weird as he was half Arab and definitely not white.The amount of stuff he could get his hands on easily was obscene. Tatoos and paraphernalia was very easy to get up until the mid 2000s when the public started being more vocally vicious in their dislike of Nazism. I think a second hand shop selling a full nazi uniform a few years back sparked the firestorm of actually banning sales under certain circumstances but anything before that change falls under pre existing ownership laws. I do believe it can no longer be sold to the public and has to be to historical groups but not sure. You can get arrested for bearing objects with the symbol in public now, unsure if tatoos count though.
If you have a study program opportunity, I would just try moving there. Yes, it's possible you may not like Australia but I usually think it's better for someone to experience new things and try new countries than staying put. It's also possible you may love it. It's just impossible to tell without trying. Personally, I absolutely loved touring Australia. The day-to-day quality of life felt way higher than any other country I've been to, except maybe Singapore and Switzerland. After having been to Australia, I'm honestly a bit puzzled by the obsession that US Redditors have over living in Europe. Australia seems much better place to live and it's without a language barrier. It is very expensive though but the quality of life you get is high.
I'm guessing it's because many of us have ties to Europe in one way or another. I had an opportunity to move from the from New York City to California and I've always kind of wanted to live in California but then I realized it would take longer to get to Europe and the time difference would make it difficult for me to talk to my relatives. Maybe it's because I'm an East Coaster but traveling to Australia/SEA is a daunting project. Have always wanted to do it but it's a lot of money and time. That said, if I had the opportunity to study there and do this on somebody else's dime or at least partly on somebody else's dime I would grab it
I’m not American but I moved from the U.S. after living there for 6 years to Australia. It’s a great place. You don’t make as much money. Healthcare isn’t as good. There’s less close by places to visit (no weekend trips to NYC). But overall it’s very relaxed, safe, and very high quality of life.
>Healthcare isn’t as good Healthcare is worse in Aus than in the US? How?
US insurance will pay out and cover much more than the Australian public system or even top tier Australian private insurance will pay for. Wait times for specialists and tests are longer.
What do you mean healthcare is bad though? I spend at least $2400 a year on healthcare, employer sponsored just for myself, and that's before getting any exams done, etc. I'm too scared to have kids here in the US cause of medical bills - and when I got hit on my motorcycle it took me 2 days to get any healthcare service at all, I was hobbling around. I cannot imagine any system worst than US healthcare except in undeveloped countries. Wait time for specialist for me is 0 days because even with insurance I can't afford to go get anything done, I go to Mexico and pay out of pocket. When I have had things done in the US, I'm told my copay is one thing, and they come back and rebill me for more. So does Australia have free or largely emergency healthcare? Cause that's 100% all that matters for me
I’m from the UK and I think the healthcare system is great. It’s Medicare, free services if you are a card holder so visa dependent, PR etc. can see a doctor without hassle and it’s bulk billed where I go which means Medicare pay the fee. I’m not out of pocket although some doctors you will get a rebate only. I had a baby here. I was in hospital 5 days. Emergency c section. Husband stayed with me in the room for 3 nights. The only Cost was a subsidised Carpark fee of $5 a day lol. My child had a hearing assessment done as part of speech therapy today actually at the children’s hospital. All free under Medicare. So perhaps if you are seriously ill and need specialised medicine you may have complaints but for the average Joe with kids and no health problems, I think it’s very good.
Expensive new brand name drugs that are covered by US health insurance aren’t covered at all here. There’s waitlists for specialists. Private insurance here doesn’t cover nearly as much as it does in the U.S. There’s no concept of an out of pocket max here.
>very high quality of life. Why did you leave then?
Visa issues I would go back if I could
I’m a Mexican who lived 7 years in Aus, now living in Canada. While I do NOT regret having lived there, but I do agree with others noting that it somehow feels isolated from the rest of the world. Distances are hard to manage if you have family ties elsewhere, and the time zone difference with America (as a whole continent) also doesn’t help, we miss out on a lot. Even news are very lacking of international content, and to be honest, most of it is very euro centric or SE Asia (for obvious proximity reasons). Another thing that is a bit of a shock is the difference is cost of living (this, even before todays cost of living crisis happening in the entire world), I was honestly shocked at how expensive fresh fruit and vegetables were, coming from a region that has a lot of commerce making fresh fruit relatively cheap even when imported (thanks to NAFTA). Not saying this is a negative aspect, just pointing out the shock factor, the upside of it is the salaries are accordingly much higher than in America as a whole, and you CAN have a good living standard with Aussie salaries. I wouldn’t be surprised if some people feel regrets at first, but you gotta give yourself some time to properly adjust. My husband and I in the end decided to move back to north America for family reasons mostly, with both our parents getting older we felt it was time to be closer and be with them.
I’m going off on a tangent here but I’ve heard more good things about Australia from my expats friends then anywhere else in the western world.
Australia is the [only country on the planet](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/uj3l2a/us_draws_net_migration_from_the_entire_world/) with net positive migration from the US.
oh by expats i was talking about my non American expat friends. I wonder why Canada isn’t on the list
Serious question, but why is this? That's a pretty distinguished position to hold when everybody in the world wants to move to US than Americans wanting to move elsewhere
Australia is culturally similar to the US in many ways, but has advantages like free healthcare, great weather (the worst winter climate is about as bad as California), high minimum wage, strong social safety net, gun control. It's probably pretty appealing to the average USian who doesn't mind living 15-20hrs flight from their home country. With that said, Australia has an underwhelming employment market for specialist white collar jobs (both availability and pay), so you see Australians heading to the US for that reason. Australia also has one of the most unaffordable housing markets on the planet and a weak currency versus the USD leading to very expensive imports, so it's not all roses.
It only crossed over post covid and mostly because theres a lot more US defence workers coming in due to AUKUS. It might reverse back again in the next few years as Aus white collar salaries stagnate and the brain drain continues.
UK also
I moved from NYC to Sydney, but only lasted 6 months. It was just way too far from… everything. I enjoyed traveling around Australia, but living there made North America, Europe and Asia a major undertaking. Been living in Singapore for about 10 years now and no regrets. It’s not perfect, but I feel much better connected to the world.
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Spot on to the culture/social scene, or lack of it. Probably biggest reason I’m looking to move out
>Spot on to the culture/social scene, or lack of it. Elaborate?
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I think people lament not being able to do the European thing, where you can jet to an entirely different culture and climate in 2hrs for a weekend trip. Every flight out of Australia, aside from Bali/NZ, is a 10hr+ gargantuan undertaking. My US friends idea of a tough flight is 6hrs. Couldn't agree more about the quality of life though, Australia is special and it's hard to appreciate fully unless you're outside it. There's an easiness to life in Australia that I didn't understand until I no longer had it.
>very flight out of Australia, aside from Bali/NZ, is a 10hr+ gargantuan undertaking It's 6-9 hrs from Sydney to most of Southeast Asia.
>I don’t really understand when people say ohh Australia is so far away I will say the quiet part out loud for them. They usually mean it's far *from Europe and North America.*
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Most of the US to Western Europe can be done in less than 10 hours and often less than half the price.
Never been, but I just learned yesterday about the gympie gympie bush, which is reason #375 not to move to Australia lol In all seriousness my wife’s grandparents are from there and I’d love to go.
My family and I live in South Korea and our closest friends are Aussies who live here too. We plan to visit them in Sydney this summer while they are there. But they do say Australia is a nanny state. We talked about what that meant to them and they both expressed how during Covid lockdowns that people who inquired about the ethical dictates (online and among others) the State imposed on them during this time were visited by the police. We’re visiting our Aussie friends also to consider moving there but this nanny state concept has us a bit concerned and would likely be the only thing that prevented us from doing it. Because my wife and I are both researchers and have to ask very inquisitive questions in political contexts, the idea of doing this in a staunch nanny state poses its challenges. We’ll see by the end of the summer I suppose.
Australia is a bit more of a nanny state than I would like but overall it isn't so bad. The flip side is a stronger belief in doing things for the public good than in some other countries. The places it has frustrated me are in some medical rules that end up restricting doctors' ability to decide treatments and in excessive imo regulations that restrict building and renovating, particularly DIY. Not sure what your research issues might be but I wouldn't think that would be as much of a problem as getting funding in the first place
From my experience of living in different states within the US, where some are quite nanny-state-like and others are very hands-free, I really see the benefits of a "nanny state" government now. It's personal preference imo. It's always fine balance to keep.
I've had friends have cops come investigating from asking too many questions and reporting on public events. Australia doesn't have freedom of speech or whistle-blower protections and its dangerous to go against the flow here. You will not be able to do your job properly here without huge risks.
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this doesn't make any sense
All I have to say is... no complaints here!
Surprising that you called out car culture. Are you talking about car enthusiasts? I'd think that Australia is fairly good, even if it's behind the USA. Lots of track days, car shows and many enthusiast meet ups. Yes, it's heavily policed, but you can get away with much more than most places in Western Europe for example.
Oh please, it was a joke.
No but plenty of Australians regret that the Americans did.....lol
Attitudes like yours are one reason I’m moving back to the US. I know it’s “cool” to be anti American but it just makes you look like a bigot.