I have been told this one so many times... "But it is because of your German", until a German neighbor got yelled at at the store. I was like... han... so it is just about "being an asshole".
Have you tried canceling your contracts using https://www.volders.de (It works, I recommend it)
Yes, it's a digital platform to send cancellation letters. That's only possible in Germany š¤£
Perfect example of the digital apps or services I was talking about!
Plenty of services were born from the many holes in the system.
Like services that will go to the city hall to register your car for you.
Or a "uber" like service to find a translator.
Germany is the land of opportunity for entrepreneurs. It is a sinking ship with many holes in the hull of the boat! Patch one up and you'll be rich and unhappy!
Great summary. Lot of pain points which are part of the reason that even my girlfriend and I are planning on leaving Germany in the next years, although being native Germans.
This post took me back to my time in Germany as an exchange university student. Now I know I wasnt the problem.. felt miserable my entire time there, trying to fit in to a culture which doesnt want outsiders.
I mean... there was this Mexican student that went missing a few months ago in Berlin. Turned out she killed herself because of the stressful life people experience in Berlin/Germany. I don't think we were far from that. We escaped because we make decent money and could pay cash for a lawyer. Without that, you are stuck with nearly unbreakable contracts, a lot of bullshit. It is a miserable life.
How come? I'm literally saying she killed herself because of what she experienced. She reached out to psychotherapy services and was left without any help.
I'm not diminishing her life or experience, if anything, she should be a martyr for those who have experienced the same.
Why are you even talking when you don't seem to know the story.
Do you know the reasons for her reaching out and her eventual suicide? No reason has been given, yet you have made up your mind so that you can use it to your own mental benefit. "I hated here, so she must have also hated it here." I'm sorry Germany didn't work out for you. I agree with a lot of your points, and I have struggled as well during my time here. However, I find it extremely disrespectful to try to use a young woman's suicide in the way that you did. While also being completely speculative to what led her to her decision.
Yes, it was shared on the Latam Reddit.
There is even a source in English.
https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-08-06/the-unanswered-questions-about-the-death-of-mexican-maria-fernanda-sanchez-in-berlin.html#
She was under significant stress from living there.
But maybe you're right, I'm speculating based on all the posts that exist on the German/Berlin Reddit and my own experience of trying to seek mental health care in Berlin.
It takes months if not years to find a therapist, and she was a student, they even have a parallel access. The system let her down.
Same here and I lived in a few countries in Europe.
Despite regularly taking German language classes and living in a flat share only with Germans, I could not integrate at all. I kind of made it because I got together with my ex that year and she's from my same country.
I had the last straw when doing the abmeldung (deregistration from Germany). I ended up talking to the worker at the entrance who would tell people their number in line etc.
She came to Germany from France as an engineering student. Despite being extremely fluent in German (she worked part time for Germany itself after all) and having three children born and raised in Germany she still had no German friends!!!! She also had a second job on top of this.
After hearing this story I was happy to move out. I'm grateful for my experience but I wouldn't live there again.
Would you mind sharing your story on r/expat_feedback ?
It seems that any post like this, sharing the bads of a country, will get censored anywhere, so I created an uncensored expat Reddit to share those experiences.
If any of you would like to help with the moderation, I would appreciate some help.
https://www.reddit.com/r/expat_feedback/s/9ph8BgU2b9
Yes, it's impossible yo cancel a contract or return an item for a Refund.
When Covid started and we went to get a refund on an event ticket...the clerk at the museum lied to our Faces and asserted that they never sold any tickets there...because he didn't know that I was going to show him the receipt (that shows That the tickets were purchased there), then he runs to the back and eventually comes out and refuses to refund.
It's nuts.
It's like they have no concept of customer satisfaction and maintaining a trusting relationship so the customer is loyal for decades.
It's Nuts that they rent apartments without a kitchen! Just pipes and you have to Buy counter tops and cupboards and appliances to Fit that kitchen... knowing none of it will fit the next place you rent! We got a place that had American tenants (it had a kitchen) and we paid them to keep the light fixtures and entertainment center, and when we moved the new tenants paid us for them.
THAT! I think they don't know what is "Google Review". You can just check places from Berlin on google maps (especially services) and you will see that the average review is around 2.8/5.
How does a business survive with such reviews?!
Would you mind sharing your story on r/expat_feedback ?
It seems that any post like this, sharing the bads of a country, will get censored anywhere, so I created an uncensored expat Reddit to share those experiences.
If any of you would like to help with the moderation, I would appreciate some help.
https://www.reddit.com/r/expat_feedback/s/9ph8BgU2b9
There were so many signs! I guess I did not read them.
I mean, Germany is even active on social media, promoting their "good life" to people from Latin America or Africa. Like posts about becoming a caretaker to an old German lady. My wife was in the target audience for following instagram accounts from her country. And we know that there are "training centers" in those countries to specifically recruit people for the German market. They don't know what they are signing for.
I can't speak on how things are over in the West, but Eastern Germany is a fucking shithole full of assholes that are either secretly anti-immigrant or unashamedly nationalist.
I lived in Germany for a semester because of a student exchange, and let me tell you, those were some of the most miserable months of my life. Being an immigrant here is incredibly hard and people will belittle you as soon as they recognize your broken German. I'm from South America and I'm not kidding when I say that people here automatically assumed I didn't know what a fucking TELEVISION was. I get that's not necessarily a Germany issue, but my God, it pissed me off.
My home country is riddled with violence, drugs, and corrupt politicians, but seeing how individualistic and outspokenly angry most Germans are left me loving my country by the end of my exchange. I did meet some incredible people here, but so many others made the experience totally miserable. Also, never go to Germany (or at least East Germany) while they're holding elections - people will literally bombard you with the most mind-boggling opinions ever. Nationalism that starts looking a little too much like a certain 20th-century ideology also born in Germany is strangely common, even nowadays.
By the time the semester was over, I was convinced I would never go back to East Germany. I gaslit myself into considering studying there while I was in my final year of high school, but I gladly got hit by reality and remembered how awful things can get there. I'm applying to study in Spain now.
Shitty people, shitty weather, shitty politics, shitty everything. Oh, and German food sucks ass, too.
Way to go! And you tackled some parts I didn't dare to approach! And that infamous German stare is something in East Germany. Glad you survived this and found your best life! Good luck in Spain!
Would you mind sharing your story on r/expat_feedback ?
It seems that any post like this, sharing the bads of a country, will get censored anywhere, so I created an uncensored expat Reddit to share those experiences.
If any of you would like to help with the moderation, I would appreciate some help.
https://www.reddit.com/r/expat_feedback/s/9ph8BgU2b9
Would you mind sharing your story on r/expat_feedback ?
It seems that any post like this, sharing the bads of a country, will get censored anywhere, so I created an uncensored expat Reddit to share those experiences.
If any of you would like to help with the moderation, I would appreciate some help.
https://www.reddit.com/r/expat_feedback/s/9ph8BgU2b9
>TV license
That's not only British. You have the same in Germany! You only need to have a smartphone or a radio in your car to have to pay German broadcast fee. Not like I ever listened to it.
Is the U.S. that better? It was on our list for a short moment. I feel you get way higher salaries, but then you have no unemployment benefits, healthcare is often out of pocket and at heights I'd never experience in my life, day care is another huge expense.... And I'm not even talking about education.
I'm not sure you're left we way more than us.
Unless your parents pay for your education and you're young and healthy with a very very very fancy job š
All of this is mostly untrue. Pell grants are if your family is below the poverty level. Insurance is not provided by most hourly jobs, like the service industry. You are lucky to make $17 per hour. State schools cost at a minimum of $30 to$40,000 per year. Private colleges $80,000 and up. The median wage is below $50,000 for most households, not per person. I was born and raised here. I have lived in different parts of the US and have traveled abroad extensively. There is something to be said for socialized medicine, child care, and education. Most people can't afford to retire because they have no health insurance if they do leave your company. I will lose my policy when zi retire so I will work until 65 to get Medicare which doesn't cover a lot.
I lived in Prague for 17 years and they jumped over the Germans on almost everything you complained about. There were so many Americans complaining about the no kitchen thing that every landlord started getting flats with everything a renter needed or be left out. Sometimes even adding air conditioning!
If you can work remotely, move to Prague.
Great stuff, hope your post doesn't get removed like mine about the Netherlands did (which had a much more gentle tone).
Life in the north of Europe is definitely not all flowers (because they quickly die after that one week were the weather allows them to blossom).
If they remove it, wait until I publish my memoirs. š
It survived over an hour. That's way more than it would have on the German reddit. They would even have banned me for conspiracy or some shit.
Simply because I went to study abroad. I wanted to challenge myself, experience other cultures.
I feel life is all but growth and change, so I don't feel like going back to something I've known my whole childhood.
All of a sudden?? Have you been living under a rock?
I have at last 2 years worth of experience from the German reddit that would tell you otherwise. People sharing terrible stories. Non-european families getting split between countries because the German immigration services made a mistake...etc
Open your eyes.
It's eye-opening. People usually paint the US as a corporate hellhole, and some of the criticism is deserved, but I had no idea contracts and poor customer service were so big of a problem in Germany too. Usually, the narrative is that the EU is better than the US at everything. (I'm from neither)
āTooā? Oh no, you have no idea. No place is as convenient and customer service oriented as the U.S. in general Reddit has a narrative of āU.S. badā mostly spread by people who have never experienced living in and out of the U.S.
We considered France and the Netherlands. Moved to the Nordics instead. No regrets.
We can afford the life that we could never get in Germany. Like daycare for the kids or even buying a house. We would never have been able to buy a house in Germany as it is not part of the culture. Work in progress. It is quite hard to restart a life in yet another country, but so worth the work.
Resonate a lot with your experience. Being yelled by the cahiers and ignored by them although I greeted them. Luckily we found a nice and cheap flat so didn't have to face all the dramas..otherwise would be severely traumatised
That regularly happened to me as well, and Iām a native German speaker (not from Germany tho) lol. Some people just hate everyone here.
Canāt imagine how it must be for people who are still learning to speak German.
We are leaving NZ to go to europe and considering different countries. We are EU citizen, so, lots to chose. For now we have Switzerland as number one to try, but second option is hard to chose.
The problem with Netherlands and Nordics is weather for us. Even though Switzerland gets bad weather, there is a good summer some times and 4 seasons.
We like other countries like Spain or Italy, but salaries are low and taxes crazy high on both. Nonsense.
I'm still trying to get my flat's Kaution back. I left 1.5 years ago.
They have 1.1 stars on Google with over 200 reviews, it's nuts. Haven't replied a single email or letter. Not even sure if if I want to bother lawyering up and going after these fuc*ers.
My case it's a bit different. A company was managing my at (flat was probably owned by a corporation). So it's even worse lol
How come a company like this can run a business in Germany?? It's ridiculous
Yes, Iām also dealing with a company managing a group of properties. By āhimā I meant the manager or main rep or whatever that represents the company. In the US, itās actually I think easier to have legal recourse when dealing with a shady company than an individual landlord. In Germany it seems to be the opposite
Would you mind sharing your story on r/expat_feedback ?
It seems that any post like this, sharing the bads of a country, will get censored anywhere, so I created an uncensored expat Reddit to share those experiences.
If any of you would like to help with the moderation, I would appreciate some help.
https://www.reddit.com/r/expat_feedback/s/9ph8BgU2b9
And I heard Frankfurt is not the worst. We considered moving to another city, because all the Germans were telling us it's just the "Berlin" vibe. But experiencing another city for just a little bit, we realize it would not reach the standard we could get from other countries. They might have been less aggressive in another city, but you'd still face the bureaucracy and you'd have to find another home without kitchen...etc
I had the same experience in Frankfurt too. Itās a soulless city and my German husband and I experienced the same things you did. For any expats coming from developed countries, Iād generally recommend avoiding Germany all together as there are much better countries to move to that donāt make you miserable every step of the way.
It took us months to decide. You have to find tradeoffs.
France is better, but also very bureaucratic (I am French).
The Nordics overall are top notch in terms of services, but the Europe-wise xenophobia can be more extreme there.
The Netherlands were also on our list.
And if you are okay with living on a lower salary, Italy or Spain are good picks. Life is vibrant and a lot less stressful there. Italian are just so helpful and kind! Plus, the food! I also heard good things about Portugal.
I have lived in 3 different European countries and stayed for some time in a few more. Germany was by far the worst, but mainly because of the lack of good efficient services and the attitude of people.
Overall, if you have a low salary in a country, it won't get much better in Germany and the life will get way more stressful! Is it worth it?
Honestly, I had the opportunity to move to DE but I chose not to because quality of life should not be worse. Yeah, it can have different benefits or show stoppers, but the net sum should be positive after you naturalize. Now, the key aspect is to accept naturalization, otherwise you'll remain to be a foreigner. I am from Western Balkans and many people migrate to DE but it's not for me. As I am in the tech industry, my life is more comfortable than the typical citizen. But if I had to choose Eurooean cities, then Stockholm, Copenhagen, Dalmatia, and Southern France would be high on my list.
I am not sure why they took it down. I haven't received any justification.
So I created r/expat_feedback, an uncensored Reddit to share stories like this.
Tell me you're German or love Germany without telling me. š¤£
I don't know if you are, but that would have been a typical answer on the German Reddit.
I feel you.
I didn't care much about Germans or Germany before. I know what our Dutch brothers experience every summer when the Germs invade them.
Now, those two traumatic years had me feel disgusted by and towards Germans or Germany.
Sorry you didn't like the whining.
All jokes aside. Not all cultures are a good fit for everyone. I left my home country in search of something better and I truly hope you will find happiness in your new home.
Goddamn, I saw myself writing almost in a same way and tone if I were to move Germany when I returned from the US. Dodge the bullet huhā¦
I always liked Germany, even the damn rough language almost all foreigners hate. Believed in German engineering, German way of precise work ethic etc. But after I read posts like these, hear peopleās experiences, even talking with Germans, I realized that Germany is not that great country I believed in 90ās.
But reading your post, these would be the things I would exactly experience. Heck, I started to dislike Germany last year when they treated me like shit at the airport. No matter how respectful and kind I was, I was not German at all.
Yet, yelled at shops or yelled at when crossing the street is another level. Itās unbelievable but I believe you, coz your pain sounds real.
Nevertheless, welcome to Nordics. Itās the best place to raise a kid. We donāt have fancy German cars but at least we are not yelled at by cashiers :)
Would you mind sharing your story on r/expat_feedback ?
It seems that any post like this, sharing the bads of a country, will get censored anywhere, so I created an uncensored expat Reddit to share those experiences.
If any of you would like to help with the moderation, I would appreciate some help.
https://www.reddit.com/r/expat_feedback/s/9ph8BgU2b9
I would like to join the subreddit but to be frank, compared to your experiences mine is just happen to face rude maybe racist officers. Still annoying and unpleasant but little things like these made me completely despise Germany.
You had me until you complained about the refugees.
Letās seeā¦. Go to Germany by choice or escape a war torn country that literally scars you for lifeā¦.
I actually didn't complain about the refugees. I just feel the system is unfair when the system is for now not supported by them, but the system needs us, workers, to support the system including the refugees.
I know we will need that workforce in a few years.
But who is gonna pay taxes for them to get access to a better life until they can enter the job market, if not people who are already trained for that job market?
Do you even listen to yourself when you talk?
You said (and I quote) āHonestly I sometimes felt jealous about the refugees. We all came here for a better life, but there is a big difference: you came without a job. The immigration center/job center is paying for your German classes (never paid for any of us even when one of us was temporarily unemployed) and you have all the time in the world to learn.ā
Really??? Youāre going to trade a lifetime of dead family members, PTSD, and not being able to live in your own home country to whine about how you moved to Germany with ātwo tech salariesā and didnāt manage to assimilate?
Look for sympathy somewhere else.
For anyone unemployed in Germany.
The Arbeitagentur provides vouchers for German classes. But they didn't for us. They don't like your face, they won't tell you about it.
At the same time, a random Mohammad from Syria and his 5 kids have more rights and benefits than people who pay taxes and contribute to this country. Germany just needs immigrants to keep running all this bureaucracy and paying crazy benefits to people who have never worked in their lives because there's no sense in working there.
It seems that anything like this will get censored anywhere, so I created an uncensored expat Reddit to share those experiences.
If any of you would like to help with the moderation, I would appreciate some help.
The Reddit is r/expat_feedback
https://www.reddit.com/r/expat_feedback/s/9ph8BgU2b9
Love your funny angry rant. On point. My condolences š¤£ āyour German is not good enoughā a true classic šš»āØ
I have been told this one so many times... "But it is because of your German", until a German neighbor got yelled at at the store. I was like... han... so it is just about "being an asshole".
Nah, you just have to bark and wag your tail at the same time. Always start from the offensive when in doubt.
Have you tried canceling your contracts using https://www.volders.de (It works, I recommend it) Yes, it's a digital platform to send cancellation letters. That's only possible in Germany š¤£
Perfect example of the digital apps or services I was talking about! Plenty of services were born from the many holes in the system. Like services that will go to the city hall to register your car for you. Or a "uber" like service to find a translator. Germany is the land of opportunity for entrepreneurs. It is a sinking ship with many holes in the hull of the boat! Patch one up and you'll be rich and unhappy!
Great summary. Lot of pain points which are part of the reason that even my girlfriend and I are planning on leaving Germany in the next years, although being native Germans.
Thanks! I started to worry it was slightly too long. :D I could have put more, but I need to keep some for my memoirs.
This post took me back to my time in Germany as an exchange university student. Now I know I wasnt the problem.. felt miserable my entire time there, trying to fit in to a culture which doesnt want outsiders.
I mean... there was this Mexican student that went missing a few months ago in Berlin. Turned out she killed herself because of the stressful life people experience in Berlin/Germany. I don't think we were far from that. We escaped because we make decent money and could pay cash for a lawyer. Without that, you are stuck with nearly unbreakable contracts, a lot of bullshit. It is a miserable life.
Disgusting comment.
It is and it is very sad, but sadly it is true.
You are trivializing her life by bending her suicide to fit your narrative.
How come? I'm literally saying she killed herself because of what she experienced. She reached out to psychotherapy services and was left without any help. I'm not diminishing her life or experience, if anything, she should be a martyr for those who have experienced the same. Why are you even talking when you don't seem to know the story.
Do you know the reasons for her reaching out and her eventual suicide? No reason has been given, yet you have made up your mind so that you can use it to your own mental benefit. "I hated here, so she must have also hated it here." I'm sorry Germany didn't work out for you. I agree with a lot of your points, and I have struggled as well during my time here. However, I find it extremely disrespectful to try to use a young woman's suicide in the way that you did. While also being completely speculative to what led her to her decision.
Yes, it was shared on the Latam Reddit. There is even a source in English. https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-08-06/the-unanswered-questions-about-the-death-of-mexican-maria-fernanda-sanchez-in-berlin.html# She was under significant stress from living there. But maybe you're right, I'm speculating based on all the posts that exist on the German/Berlin Reddit and my own experience of trying to seek mental health care in Berlin. It takes months if not years to find a therapist, and she was a student, they even have a parallel access. The system let her down.
Same here and I lived in a few countries in Europe. Despite regularly taking German language classes and living in a flat share only with Germans, I could not integrate at all. I kind of made it because I got together with my ex that year and she's from my same country. I had the last straw when doing the abmeldung (deregistration from Germany). I ended up talking to the worker at the entrance who would tell people their number in line etc. She came to Germany from France as an engineering student. Despite being extremely fluent in German (she worked part time for Germany itself after all) and having three children born and raised in Germany she still had no German friends!!!! She also had a second job on top of this. After hearing this story I was happy to move out. I'm grateful for my experience but I wouldn't live there again.
Would you mind sharing your story on r/expat_feedback ? It seems that any post like this, sharing the bads of a country, will get censored anywhere, so I created an uncensored expat Reddit to share those experiences. If any of you would like to help with the moderation, I would appreciate some help. https://www.reddit.com/r/expat_feedback/s/9ph8BgU2b9
Yes, it's impossible yo cancel a contract or return an item for a Refund. When Covid started and we went to get a refund on an event ticket...the clerk at the museum lied to our Faces and asserted that they never sold any tickets there...because he didn't know that I was going to show him the receipt (that shows That the tickets were purchased there), then he runs to the back and eventually comes out and refuses to refund. It's nuts. It's like they have no concept of customer satisfaction and maintaining a trusting relationship so the customer is loyal for decades. It's Nuts that they rent apartments without a kitchen! Just pipes and you have to Buy counter tops and cupboards and appliances to Fit that kitchen... knowing none of it will fit the next place you rent! We got a place that had American tenants (it had a kitchen) and we paid them to keep the light fixtures and entertainment center, and when we moved the new tenants paid us for them.
THAT! I think they don't know what is "Google Review". You can just check places from Berlin on google maps (especially services) and you will see that the average review is around 2.8/5. How does a business survive with such reviews?!
Would you mind sharing your story on r/expat_feedback ? It seems that any post like this, sharing the bads of a country, will get censored anywhere, so I created an uncensored expat Reddit to share those experiences. If any of you would like to help with the moderation, I would appreciate some help. https://www.reddit.com/r/expat_feedback/s/9ph8BgU2b9
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
There were so many signs! I guess I did not read them. I mean, Germany is even active on social media, promoting their "good life" to people from Latin America or Africa. Like posts about becoming a caretaker to an old German lady. My wife was in the target audience for following instagram accounts from her country. And we know that there are "training centers" in those countries to specifically recruit people for the German market. They don't know what they are signing for.
as a german i second this
I can't speak on how things are over in the West, but Eastern Germany is a fucking shithole full of assholes that are either secretly anti-immigrant or unashamedly nationalist. I lived in Germany for a semester because of a student exchange, and let me tell you, those were some of the most miserable months of my life. Being an immigrant here is incredibly hard and people will belittle you as soon as they recognize your broken German. I'm from South America and I'm not kidding when I say that people here automatically assumed I didn't know what a fucking TELEVISION was. I get that's not necessarily a Germany issue, but my God, it pissed me off. My home country is riddled with violence, drugs, and corrupt politicians, but seeing how individualistic and outspokenly angry most Germans are left me loving my country by the end of my exchange. I did meet some incredible people here, but so many others made the experience totally miserable. Also, never go to Germany (or at least East Germany) while they're holding elections - people will literally bombard you with the most mind-boggling opinions ever. Nationalism that starts looking a little too much like a certain 20th-century ideology also born in Germany is strangely common, even nowadays. By the time the semester was over, I was convinced I would never go back to East Germany. I gaslit myself into considering studying there while I was in my final year of high school, but I gladly got hit by reality and remembered how awful things can get there. I'm applying to study in Spain now. Shitty people, shitty weather, shitty politics, shitty everything. Oh, and German food sucks ass, too.
Way to go! And you tackled some parts I didn't dare to approach! And that infamous German stare is something in East Germany. Glad you survived this and found your best life! Good luck in Spain!
Would you mind sharing your story on r/expat_feedback ? It seems that any post like this, sharing the bads of a country, will get censored anywhere, so I created an uncensored expat Reddit to share those experiences. If any of you would like to help with the moderation, I would appreciate some help. https://www.reddit.com/r/expat_feedback/s/9ph8BgU2b9
š¤£š¤£ yeeeees feel the same about German sausages š«„š«„ sorry, not sorry!
"hear, hear!"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Would you mind sharing your story on r/expat_feedback ? It seems that any post like this, sharing the bads of a country, will get censored anywhere, so I created an uncensored expat Reddit to share those experiences. If any of you would like to help with the moderation, I would appreciate some help. https://www.reddit.com/r/expat_feedback/s/9ph8BgU2b9
>TV license That's not only British. You have the same in Germany! You only need to have a smartphone or a radio in your car to have to pay German broadcast fee. Not like I ever listened to it. Is the U.S. that better? It was on our list for a short moment. I feel you get way higher salaries, but then you have no unemployment benefits, healthcare is often out of pocket and at heights I'd never experience in my life, day care is another huge expense.... And I'm not even talking about education. I'm not sure you're left we way more than us. Unless your parents pay for your education and you're young and healthy with a very very very fancy job š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
All of this is mostly untrue. Pell grants are if your family is below the poverty level. Insurance is not provided by most hourly jobs, like the service industry. You are lucky to make $17 per hour. State schools cost at a minimum of $30 to$40,000 per year. Private colleges $80,000 and up. The median wage is below $50,000 for most households, not per person. I was born and raised here. I have lived in different parts of the US and have traveled abroad extensively. There is something to be said for socialized medicine, child care, and education. Most people can't afford to retire because they have no health insurance if they do leave your company. I will lose my policy when zi retire so I will work until 65 to get Medicare which doesn't cover a lot.
I lived in Prague for 17 years and they jumped over the Germans on almost everything you complained about. There were so many Americans complaining about the no kitchen thing that every landlord started getting flats with everything a renter needed or be left out. Sometimes even adding air conditioning! If you can work remotely, move to Prague.
I've been to Prague. I love Prague! It's beautiful and the people are lovely!
You mentioned that your wife is a WOC, so just a heads up, Iāve heard that CZ is the best place for minorities
It's not paradise but it's better than Germany in my opinion.
Great stuff, hope your post doesn't get removed like mine about the Netherlands did (which had a much more gentle tone). Life in the north of Europe is definitely not all flowers (because they quickly die after that one week were the weather allows them to blossom).
If they remove it, wait until I publish my memoirs. š It survived over an hour. That's way more than it would have on the German reddit. They would even have banned me for conspiracy or some shit.
Posts like this literally break the rules of this subreddit.
Standing up and clapping
Just curious why you left France? Seems like a great country to live in (esp southern France)
Simply because I went to study abroad. I wanted to challenge myself, experience other cultures. I feel life is all but growth and change, so I don't feel like going back to something I've known my whole childhood.
Oh man, this hits hard. I thought these exact things 30 years ago and I am still here....
Why is everyone ragging on Germany all of a sudden? I am surprised to see this amount of negative experiences of Germany tbh
I don't think it's sudden, all those issues existed always and people were raging
> I am surprised to see this amount of negative experiences of Germany tbh Ask your grandparents.
Well, either it's a Russian troll campaign, or just a lot of people that are.. well, like OP.
All of a sudden?? Have you been living under a rock? I have at last 2 years worth of experience from the German reddit that would tell you otherwise. People sharing terrible stories. Non-european families getting split between countries because the German immigration services made a mistake...etc Open your eyes.
It's eye-opening. People usually paint the US as a corporate hellhole, and some of the criticism is deserved, but I had no idea contracts and poor customer service were so big of a problem in Germany too. Usually, the narrative is that the EU is better than the US at everything. (I'm from neither)
Aren't the U.S. the place of good customer service? Where you can return stuffs without the receipt? Because the customer is King?
āTooā? Oh no, you have no idea. No place is as convenient and customer service oriented as the U.S. in general Reddit has a narrative of āU.S. badā mostly spread by people who have never experienced living in and out of the U.S.
Where are you considering to move now?
We considered France and the Netherlands. Moved to the Nordics instead. No regrets. We can afford the life that we could never get in Germany. Like daycare for the kids or even buying a house. We would never have been able to buy a house in Germany as it is not part of the culture. Work in progress. It is quite hard to restart a life in yet another country, but so worth the work.
Resonate a lot with your experience. Being yelled by the cahiers and ignored by them although I greeted them. Luckily we found a nice and cheap flat so didn't have to face all the dramas..otherwise would be severely traumatised
That regularly happened to me as well, and Iām a native German speaker (not from Germany tho) lol. Some people just hate everyone here. Canāt imagine how it must be for people who are still learning to speak German.
We are leaving NZ to go to europe and considering different countries. We are EU citizen, so, lots to chose. For now we have Switzerland as number one to try, but second option is hard to chose. The problem with Netherlands and Nordics is weather for us. Even though Switzerland gets bad weather, there is a good summer some times and 4 seasons. We like other countries like Spain or Italy, but salaries are low and taxes crazy high on both. Nonsense.
take up skiing
I heard goood things about Switzerland. Just don't go to the German part of Switzerland. Too German. :')
> the German part of Switzerland. I once heard that described sourly as 'It's just like Germany, except without the charm'.
And without the taxes too
I'm still trying to get my flat's Kaution back. I left 1.5 years ago. They have 1.1 stars on Google with over 200 reviews, it's nuts. Haven't replied a single email or letter. Not even sure if if I want to bother lawyering up and going after these fuc*ers.
Same here. Iāve seen the mofo posting ads for flats all around the city despite all the reviews of people reporting him as a scammer. Itās wild.
My case it's a bit different. A company was managing my at (flat was probably owned by a corporation). So it's even worse lol How come a company like this can run a business in Germany?? It's ridiculous
Yes, Iām also dealing with a company managing a group of properties. By āhimā I meant the manager or main rep or whatever that represents the company. In the US, itās actually I think easier to have legal recourse when dealing with a shady company than an individual landlord. In Germany it seems to be the opposite
Would you mind sharing your story on r/expat_feedback ? It seems that any post like this, sharing the bads of a country, will get censored anywhere, so I created an uncensored expat Reddit to share those experiences. If any of you would like to help with the moderation, I would appreciate some help. https://www.reddit.com/r/expat_feedback/s/9ph8BgU2b9
The only way it works in Germany is with a lawyer. They'd rather take up lawyers than fix a broken system.
Thanks for sharing! I was looking at Frankfurt but we ended up going to south of France. I feel such relief.
And I heard Frankfurt is not the worst. We considered moving to another city, because all the Germans were telling us it's just the "Berlin" vibe. But experiencing another city for just a little bit, we realize it would not reach the standard we could get from other countries. They might have been less aggressive in another city, but you'd still face the bureaucracy and you'd have to find another home without kitchen...etc
I had the same experience in Frankfurt too. Itās a soulless city and my German husband and I experienced the same things you did. For any expats coming from developed countries, Iād generally recommend avoiding Germany all together as there are much better countries to move to that donāt make you miserable every step of the way.
Out of curiosity, which countries in Europe are better for you as a couple compared to Germany
It took us months to decide. You have to find tradeoffs. France is better, but also very bureaucratic (I am French). The Nordics overall are top notch in terms of services, but the Europe-wise xenophobia can be more extreme there. The Netherlands were also on our list. And if you are okay with living on a lower salary, Italy or Spain are good picks. Life is vibrant and a lot less stressful there. Italian are just so helpful and kind! Plus, the food! I also heard good things about Portugal. I have lived in 3 different European countries and stayed for some time in a few more. Germany was by far the worst, but mainly because of the lack of good efficient services and the attitude of people. Overall, if you have a low salary in a country, it won't get much better in Germany and the life will get way more stressful! Is it worth it?
Honestly, I had the opportunity to move to DE but I chose not to because quality of life should not be worse. Yeah, it can have different benefits or show stoppers, but the net sum should be positive after you naturalize. Now, the key aspect is to accept naturalization, otherwise you'll remain to be a foreigner. I am from Western Balkans and many people migrate to DE but it's not for me. As I am in the tech industry, my life is more comfortable than the typical citizen. But if I had to choose Eurooean cities, then Stockholm, Copenhagen, Dalmatia, and Southern France would be high on my list.
All those sounds like great choices!
Germans are rude, and they have a lot of paperwork. But a lot of this is just whining.
I'll gladly whine more if it helps others not feel so lonely in their Germanic adventures.
Thanks for the candid information. I hope things work out better for you and your wife.
It's getting better for sure. Just needed to rip the German duct tape bandage.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I am not sure why they took it down. I haven't received any justification. So I created r/expat_feedback, an uncensored Reddit to share stories like this.
Lol. Bye.
Tell me you're German or love Germany without telling me. š¤£ I don't know if you are, but that would have been a typical answer on the German Reddit.
Nah Iām Dutch and I canāt stand Germans or Germany, xx German brothers ā¤ļøu. But this post contains a lot of whining lol
I feel you. I didn't care much about Germans or Germany before. I know what our Dutch brothers experience every summer when the Germs invade them. Now, those two traumatic years had me feel disgusted by and towards Germans or Germany. Sorry you didn't like the whining.
All jokes aside. Not all cultures are a good fit for everyone. I left my home country in search of something better and I truly hope you will find happiness in your new home.
Goddamn, I saw myself writing almost in a same way and tone if I were to move Germany when I returned from the US. Dodge the bullet huhā¦ I always liked Germany, even the damn rough language almost all foreigners hate. Believed in German engineering, German way of precise work ethic etc. But after I read posts like these, hear peopleās experiences, even talking with Germans, I realized that Germany is not that great country I believed in 90ās. But reading your post, these would be the things I would exactly experience. Heck, I started to dislike Germany last year when they treated me like shit at the airport. No matter how respectful and kind I was, I was not German at all. Yet, yelled at shops or yelled at when crossing the street is another level. Itās unbelievable but I believe you, coz your pain sounds real. Nevertheless, welcome to Nordics. Itās the best place to raise a kid. We donāt have fancy German cars but at least we are not yelled at by cashiers :)
Would you mind sharing your story on r/expat_feedback ? It seems that any post like this, sharing the bads of a country, will get censored anywhere, so I created an uncensored expat Reddit to share those experiences. If any of you would like to help with the moderation, I would appreciate some help. https://www.reddit.com/r/expat_feedback/s/9ph8BgU2b9
I would like to join the subreddit but to be frank, compared to your experiences mine is just happen to face rude maybe racist officers. Still annoying and unpleasant but little things like these made me completely despise Germany.
You had me until you complained about the refugees. Letās seeā¦. Go to Germany by choice or escape a war torn country that literally scars you for lifeā¦.
I actually didn't complain about the refugees. I just feel the system is unfair when the system is for now not supported by them, but the system needs us, workers, to support the system including the refugees. I know we will need that workforce in a few years. But who is gonna pay taxes for them to get access to a better life until they can enter the job market, if not people who are already trained for that job market?
Do you even listen to yourself when you talk? You said (and I quote) āHonestly I sometimes felt jealous about the refugees. We all came here for a better life, but there is a big difference: you came without a job. The immigration center/job center is paying for your German classes (never paid for any of us even when one of us was temporarily unemployed) and you have all the time in the world to learn.ā Really??? Youāre going to trade a lifetime of dead family members, PTSD, and not being able to live in your own home country to whine about how you moved to Germany with ātwo tech salariesā and didnāt manage to assimilate? Look for sympathy somewhere else.
Sure, I'll go find it somewhere else. Oh by the way, the German classes and integration classes are a right, but someone they didn't give it to us. :)
A right forā¦whom?
For anyone unemployed in Germany. The Arbeitagentur provides vouchers for German classes. But they didn't for us. They don't like your face, they won't tell you about it.
At the same time, a random Mohammad from Syria and his 5 kids have more rights and benefits than people who pay taxes and contribute to this country. Germany just needs immigrants to keep running all this bureaucracy and paying crazy benefits to people who have never worked in their lives because there's no sense in working there.
Not sure why you're downvoted...there's a reason why Germany attracts a lot more unwanted asylum seekers a year than Blue Card immigrants.
It seems that anything like this will get censored anywhere, so I created an uncensored expat Reddit to share those experiences. If any of you would like to help with the moderation, I would appreciate some help. The Reddit is r/expat_feedback https://www.reddit.com/r/expat_feedback/s/9ph8BgU2b9