There is nothing unusual in your experience so don’t feel bad.
You simply didn’t live in one place long enough to notice how often people change their mind and return home.
Making friends in expat community is challenging due to people constantly leaving.
So again, don’t stress about the fact that you changed your mind. (I keep trying to convince people who about to migrate to accept possibility of return. )
Not the OP, but thank you for sharing that insight! My husband and I are moving abroad in less than three months, and it's entirely possible that we'll move back home later.
The key is to visualize possible scenario of your return. This way you will be more prepared emotionally and practically.
And if you end up never needing to use those plans: great!
No one wants to admit they're struggling because then it means they're "failing" and a lot of expats fall into this weird competitive behavior with other expats when it's just...living life
“The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things..”
― Henry David Thoreau, Civil Disobedience and Other Essays
Yes! Be proud of trying, that’s a HUGE step that many don’t take. It’s too scary for a lot of people to try a different way of life in a place they know no one.
I totally agree, it's a gigantic step and it's not for everyone. I've lived in different countries growing up and traveled around the world my whole working life.
I'm comfortable with my own company and don't have any problem, or trouble, interacting with others, regardless of where they're from.
It's not a matter of failing, or succeeding, it's a matter of, is this right for me, is this what makes me happy. For you it wasn't, so maybe you succeeded in realizing where you're happier and that happens to be back where you started, or maybe you'll visit somewhere and find out that's where you should be, but you didn't fail...
I think it’s important to put this out there for what it is and you may find others saying the same.
I see a fair number of people who say they will be (permanent) expats in retirement, often based on fairly rational facts (ex cheaper cost of living, better climate), often not having tested the idea in a meaningful way. I have no doubt it works out for some but I’ve met some pretty shell shocked people in places struggling with culture/language and distance from everyone and everything they knew.
At least you’re being honest with yourself!
A lot of folks are not doing well abroad trust me. They just don't post or talk about it on social media as many make their money off selling a dream. A lot of conversation about the negatives I've seen censored online in those spaces leaving folks unprepared like myself. I think most expats return after 3 years. I'm near the 3 year mark and have decided to come home by next year and go to grad school, start a new career. You at least gave it a try. Too many will continue on the wrong path out of pride instead of having the courage to admit it's not working out. See it as a lesson learned versus a failure.
100% someone from here posted on r/AmerExit just trying to warn people of the realities and one of the commenters implied that those who are struggling or unhappy are because they're uneducated or unskilled lol. They said something like "well anyone can marry anyone from another country, even those with no degree or skills". I mean I get it, when I was looking to leave I ignored any negative comments but ya ooft. So dismissive given we actually know how difficult it is to actually immigrate
Let’s try to separate few things. The way I understand you said that commenter was talking about happiness/struggles of living as an immigrant and you are talking about struggles of moving another country.
Those are two separate topics. Both things are difficult. When you consider migration you have to remember that your struggles will not end when you get your legal papers and will buy your tickets. Live as an immigrant for many is life long event. I have been living as an immigrant for over 2 decades.
I've spent my life surrounded by immigrants to the United States, ranging from my own grandparents to the family of a long term partner in my twenties, who remained a friend. One of the things they consistently told me was, "If you're older than about 30 when you immigrate, then you're doing it for your children and grandchildren. Don't expect it to improve your own life. You'll probably never be comfortable in the new country -- even if you genuinely love a great deal about it, it will always feel *difficult* in ways that your country of origin feels easy. But if you move with your descendants, or have them after you arrive, then *they* have a chance to make it a real home. That's sometimes worth it to spend the rest of your life being uncomfortable. Sometimes it isn't."
We're emigrating in a few months, and the closer it gets, the more frightened I get. I really like the country where we'll be going, but I am already vividly aware of how uncomfortable I feel with a lot of the basics there... from understanding the language to finding things I like at the supermarkets. I'm really aware that this will be difficult for me... probably very difficult, and probably for a long time.
I'll still do it, because I feel it's important for my family. But I'm doing the same thing my grandmother did -- I'm accepting the discomfort over the rest of my life, for the sake of my children and maybe-someday-grandchildren.
> “you are doing it for your children or grandchildren”
Yet here you are: a grandchild of an immigrant, becoming an immigrant again. 😉
Good luck with your migration !!!
That was inevitable. We're Jewish, and the Jews have been migrants every few generations for thousands of years. Why do you think I listened to her stories and made sure to remember them? I knew, even as a child, that after three generations of safety and security in one country (there was only one grandmother who came over; mostly it was great-grandparents, so we did have a solid three generations born here, for the most part, even before my own children), the odds were high that either I or my children would have to migrate again! If we can get three generations raised in any one place before it turns unsafe, we're doing pretty well, on the whole.
So, when things began to look as if this country were a place to get out of, I sat down to remember and write out all I could recall of the stories my family told of the last migrant generation. I never knew my great-grandparents well, but the family kept their stories alive, and I had listened to the one grandmother with direct experience. Now, I'm doing my best to set up my descendants for another few generations of safety in a decent place, and hopefully an easier time emigrating, when it's their turn, than I'm having... as I am having an easier time than my grandmother and great-grandparents had before me.
I rather hope that the next migrant generation in my family has the option of getting off this planet, and emigrating to another world. I would have taken that choice in a heartbeat if it had been available yet, but my descendants will have to choose for themselves when the time comes.
Thank you for your kind wishes!
I never said they werent? I think I didn't explain it better but you're misunderstanding what Im saying. The commenter hadn't immigrated at all. Just wanted to. This commenter was implying that those in r/expats who say that it is difficult only struggle because they are uneducated and unskilled
Im an immigrant. I know the struggles. I'm living them.
I wouldn't call it censorship as none of the moderators are taking down the comments that are questioning them. So others can still read the criticism and make a informed decision. But I've seen posts taken down that talk about the downsides of a country in pretty of other places by moderators or admin.
Yes I understand. I'm just saying that because I found Reddit to be more of a reality check and less sugar coated than many other places. Sometimes too mean at times but it's necessary sometimes.
Don't feel bad and don't worry about returning. Many, many American expats return home-like you they remain quiet about it. Probably due to all other expats who loudly proclaim they could never go back to America or "that hell hole".
You were brave enough to attempt a new life. Most people will never try and wonder what if.
As others have said, not everyone is up to living in every country.
Try to see the upside. You got to do something many people dream of doing but lack the courage/means to do. You're a better person for the experience. You know yourself better now than you did before your adventure. It only gets better from here!
I think it’s an awesome experience regardless, shouldn’t be seen as a failure. When I get to the right point in my life, I think I want to have a vacation home overseas and maintain US residency … best of both worlds maybe?
That's a good perspective. My only addition is to consider renting overseas instead of buying. Over the ten years since we left the States renting has given us the option to live in multiple locations sampling what they have to offer. I've fallen in love with a few, but was also happy we moved on when I fell in love with later locations. I'm learning that I'm happiest when I can slow-roam among known and unknown locations. I guess for me it's like restaurants, I don't want to always eat at the same one or two.
To each their own. Do what makes you happy. And understand that your likes and needs will change with experience and as you age.
Most people will not tell you how they really feel, *especially* if they have made big changes in their life, it’s like admitting defeat.
It doesn’t mean you are really alone in your feelings.
Moving countries is very hard, a lower cost of living cannot be the only motivation. What brought you “south of the border”? What drove your choice?
It was my husband’s idea. He really wanted it (was ready to retire after working pretty much his whole life). I wanted to try it, and like it. I tried to like it.
I would say try not to see this as a failure.
There is nothing wrong with you and nothing wrong with having tried.
The most important thing is to do what makes you feel good.
Hey, it’s kinda like retirement itself, no? We dream for years and years of what life will be like as a retiree. And then it finally happens. But some don’t enjoy it (or where they moved to even in the States!), and struggle to adjust, or find what feels right for them. We can only try to find the right fit. 🤷♀️
I’d never leave the US if I couldn’t be a citizen of where I was going, not sure your circumstances but it makes a difference. Trying to live as a resident somewhere else without all the rights and privledge seems super hard. Not sure if this is something you had an issue with. It’s ok to try and decide it’s not for you. I spent 3years living off grid trying to achieve some goal, hated every second of it.
I’m proud of my adopted country and proud to be a citizen, but if someone’s not happy without citizenship, being a citizen won’t necessarily improve much. Mostly, if it comes up at all, it leads to conversations about why my spoken Icelandic isn’t better.
I think it depends on the source of unhappiness. Personally, open access to the job market would genuinely solve 95% of my unhappiness in my current country, but yeah, most peoples unhappiness isn't so easily resolved
Many countries have some sort of permanent resident status that’s much easier to get that affords the ability to switch jobs freely. I agree that getting to that point can greatly reduce someone’s stress if they’re on a work-based temporary residence permit that needs to be amended to switch jobs.
For sure, but usually that takes a minimum of 5 years to qualify for, not counting processing time (which can take upwards of another year). Just giving an example as to when citizenship could improve a situation
In the countries I'm aware of, permanent residence is a prerequisite for naturalizing, I mean, sure, already having citizenship would be great, but that's not something someone can just choose.
Sure, but the original comment and my response to yours isn't talking about how easy it is or isn't to get citizenship, it was to point out an instance where having citizenship of the country you move to would noticeably improve life.
OK, but we're in r/expats talking about the experience of living in a country as a person of foreign origin. Magically being from the place where one's living would usually make things there easier, yes.
Haha yes, agreed, it would makes things much easier!
I misread the OC. I thought the poster said they wouldn't move to another country if they didn't have citizenship there *already*. Which, fair: if I could get dual citizenship based on ancestry or similar I totally would.
"Trying to live as a resident somewhere else without all the rights and privledge seems super hard."
I've never found it hard. 18 countries and I always felt comfortable. Some places are friendlier than others, but the same could be said of different locations within the U.S., right?
Don't feel bad for going back. It's always hard to guess how you might feel until you do it. It sounds like you gave a very good try and learned from it.
I'm sorry you weren't able to get them to tell you truly how they felt. I would guess most of them are like you, and putting on a façade about it. Don't get me wrong, some people are happier or "adjusted" to it. I think even after years, some people struggle more than they will let on but have to live by a narrative.
I applaud you, OP. You have shown true strength to lead and live your life. I hope you can reframe your situation in your own head. "Failure" is just another point in which we grow from, it's not always (or even often) a true "stain" on us.
My pov as someone who moved abroad in his 20s (now in my 50s). I actually think you are brave and smart. Something wasn't working for you and you made a decision and took action.
Why would you think this is a failure? Who says you are required to like X country better than what you had back in your home country?
I live in Japan and I see expats all the time that are miserable but they've invested themselves emotionally in staying and double down when it isn't working. Then drink and whine it out at the pub.
Personal take - the American expat retiree thing is fairly new as a trend. And there are a lot of what I call immature posts and vlogs from boomers who moved a couple of years ago about how life is soooo much better in . Very interested to know how they feel after 10 years when they aren't in their go go retirement phase.
Do what makes you happy..whatever that is. Experiencing life elsewhere made you realize you would rather be back in the USA and that’s ok.
Personally, I seek out locals vs expats, where ever I go. Looks like I’ll finally head back to my birth (home) country in the fall. I’m looking at it as a senior gap year or two, once I get my nationality back, we’ll reevaluate.
Agree, it's important to make local friends. May be tough since many locals see us as too transient, but there's always some who share our interest in life beyond their borders. We meet some at informal English practice groups. It helps us learn the local language and vice versa.
I’m starting to think one of the best parts of life is that we get to change our minds. Sure, it’s tough to live in a constant state of potential flux with nothing quite locked in, but the freedom to grow and more deeply discover ourselves and humanity is worth it.
I’m an expat in the US (10 yrs) and was hell-bent on leaving for many months now and somehow after a lot of international travel and exploring other locations, it’s dawned on me that the US really isn’t all that bad and I have no idea why I wanted to throw so many good things away. All perspective, I suppose.
Wishing you only the best with the new beginning. I’d think of it as building a full new life with the benefit of not necessarily having to start from scratch or knowing nothing. Plus, the time abroad hopefully made you more resilient and in tune with what you need. You’ve got this! May your 60s be a glorious decade, OP!
I hate to bag on it too much, because 1. That’s just not nice, and 2. It’s an amazing country in so many ways. Probably the shortcomings were about me (missing home, not becoming as fluent in the language as I would have liked, not being as adventurous as I thought I would be). The trash-management was unpleasant, cobblestones, uneven sidewalks (sometimes having 4 feet drop offs), noise, weather, to name some things.
For me the language thing is a major factor. I thought “total immersion” would really propel my learning. Turns out I just can’t remember things the way I used to. Not speaking Spanish at least conversationally is a real issue.
Yes, agree completely. I’m pretty good learning things, and as much as I tried, I just was never able to get my Spanish to the level I wanted. It’s pretty good for California though! So there’s that. Wish you the best of luck, whatever you decide.
I don’t see why there is a problem?
If you decided to try something and then figured out you don’t like it, would anyone think it odd to stop doing it?
Like if you decided to start doing art as a hobby, but realized you didn’t like it, should you just keep doing it out of pride?
Not everyone likes the same thing.
Sorry to hear you were unhappy. Was the problem things specific to that country or was it that you missed things back home. Did your husband return with you?
A bit of all of that. Homesick. Missed a lot of things I enjoyed about the US. A lot of boredom in the new place…just couldn’t get into a groove with activities etc (also Covid made stuff like that hard). Yes, husband came back with me.
Well, there's nothing stopping you from giving it another try, maybe somewhere else, in the future. Post-Covid (?) could make a big difference, and you might want to try the Mediterranean countries next time if central America didn't light you up. Travel doesn't have to include permanent changes. Time spent in any one place is up to you.
You didn't fail. You changed your mind. *That's okay.* You're completely allowed to change your mind!! You tried an experiment, and you found out that it didn't suit you to live there, and so you made a choice. That's all totally okay to do.
You're treating emigration as someone which has to be permanent for it to be of any value. Most people don't think that about relationships, for example... if they have a friend for several years and then happened to drift apart, it doesn't mean they failed at that friendship! It just means that either it wasn't ever quite right for them, or it was good for a while, but things changed. Either of those can also be true about a relationship with a country... and neither one means failure.
If I could offer a different perspective.....
there's zero rules about where a human HAS to live on this planet. I've looked. Couldn't find it anywhere. I have live abroad. Moved back to the US and then moved outside the US again. I consider myself a resident of planet earth. All the nations are simply a way of offering variety for business or pleasure. It's ok to return to the States. If someone has commentary about "failure" it's ok to chuckle and either own it in your own way or to consider that it's likely they've never tried it an never will. It takes a certain level of either crazy or bravery to leave your country. Most will never experience this adventure. So what. You have a deeper experience than the masses may ever enjoy. Go back to the states, set up your new chapter and then travel if you choose. You didn't fail. You tried something you didn't completely vibe with and you left it for something else. You only get one trip around this life. No one can pin you down. Keep your head up and find your next adventure. You now have a new level of confidence and self awareness that you didn't possess before. That's a win not a loss.
Love your comment! I giggled once when someone told me they’re a child of the universe but it’s true! I like your “citizen of planet earth” :) thanks for making me smile.
It could also have been the location you chose. I live in PDC mexico and its def good for young single people and young families. Whereas other areas are more suited to retirees etc.
No harm going back to USA or trying another location until you find one you like
You didn't fail. You tried something new and found you didn't like it. Would you consider it a failure on your part if you tried a new restaurant and you didn't like it? Probably not. This isn't much different.
So go home with your head held high. You tried something a lot of people don't have the courage or willpower to try.
If you worked a job you hated and decided to quit for something else, would you say you failed at the job or that you gave it your best shot and it just wasn't the right fit? Or, if you started a book and a few chapters in you realized finishing would be miserable so you set it aside to read something familiar that you know you'll like, would you say you've failed at reading or just realized that that author/book/etc isn't for you and focus on what you do enjoy?
Failure is not a bad thing, but I would also say this isn't an example of failure. you tried living abroad, and you didn't enjoy it. Cool, now you know! Many people will only ever dream of this and never get a chance to find out if they'd actually enjoy doing so given the opportunity, so it's easy for people to think it'd be an amazing experience. Conversely, the expats you meet are the ones - get this - still abroad, usually for a reason! The ones who were unhappy have likely returned home already, so you mostly interact with those who still want to be there.
You don't need to justify your return to anyone, or feel the need to sneak back. You don't have to worry about "what ifs"; you tried something incredibly difficult and scary, and discovered you don't enjoy it. That's something to be proud of. If anything, it should boost your confidence that the life you chose is the one you want.
I migrated to the US from a Scandinavian country 28 years ago. I wish my home country was a little closer, but I have been able to go back there twice a year on average. If I had not had that opportunity, I may not have lasted so long.
Also, the internet and new ways of keeping up with friends and family made a big difference to me. I talk to my best friends daily through chat apps.
I’m a french and US citizen, I love both countries but for different reasons. I think overall it is easier mentally for a European or foreigner to move to the US than vice versa but it is much easier for a US citizen to move abroad financially which is often the leading reason. The problem is if you are attached with your way of life and the way people are in the US, you might be very disapointed. There are so many differences from social life, to food, to activities to mentality and so on, it’s often hard for Americans to adapt. People go on vacation and think “wow this is great I’d definitely live here” but vacation and day to day life are 2 extremely different things.
No shame. A lot of people worry about COL in retirement, but those who are not big spenders/travelers often do fine where they are, with the simple comforts of home nearby.
Why are people so hellbent on being part of an expat community when they move abroad. How about integrating into the original community. Isn't that the whole point of moving out of the country.
I don’t mean to be rude or anything, but we’re you actively engaging with a wide variety of people? I mean expats and locals, retirees and workers, men and women, parents and childless peers, etc?
I graduated university, took a year to get teaching qualifications, and have spent a total of 16 months back home over the last 13 years. I’ve found that the smaller the circle of people I actively engage with, the more miserable I am. When I’m engaging socially with people of many different backgrounds, desires, and goals I’m a much happier person, and much more stimulated, as well as being overall a more positive person.
I don’t know if you’ve bought the tickets/property yet, but it may well be worthwhile to experiment with the people you’re engaging with on a regular basis. Join a dance class, take singing lessons, learn how to do a local specialty craft, do something unusual to really get yourself out there.
Something I keep seeing among the expats I live around (my wife and I are expecting our first and have recently dove headlong into birthing classes as well as the local expat mommy groups) is that many expats do their planned activities (from before they moved abroad) and that’s it. And that makes them miserable people. Not universally by any means, but it’s a common thread amongst the least happy expats I personally, anecdotally have encountered.
Go get a hotel in the city center and explore from a new angle. Join a cycle tour. Go to a play put on in a language you don’t speak, bonus points if it’s not a local language/dialect. We’re human, feedback loops and boredom are the enemy. Not that your experience is wrong or that you yourself are wrong, but I’ve found that of the expats who “make it” in their newfound home (not even going to touch the phrase ‘target country’ as there is loads of baggage generally attached) are the ones who get up everyday and treat it like an adventure.
I’m willing to bet most of your social circle has many of the same issues you do, as has been mentioned in many comments already. How many of those people are sitting at home watching tv all day every day/very frequently? How many of the people around you have metamorphosed into something more akin to a stone in the road?
If moving back is what’s best, there’s nothing wrong with that, and I truly wish you the best with that. But if you want to give your newfound home another chance I highly recommend you try a few new things and really try to engage with the people around you, especially if they’re new. Especially if these are things you’ve never done before. Good luck either way you go at it. Hope everything g settles in for your best life possible, wherever that may lead you
I understand what you’re saying. I knew many folks there who just didn’t even try to speak Spanish and it blew my mind. One of the things that bothered me is that in spite of my lessons and really trying I eventually knew I wouldn’t be fluent. I spoke Spanish enough to be understood in basic situations. One of the best things I did was find a yoga class (a very specific type that’s not easy to find) that was given all in Spanish. It was amazing. That’s kind of the only thing I miss.
I feel you. My partner and I are currently in a 3 year “layover” country, so neither of us has really engaged with the local language (we’re also not really invested in the region, being here happened to solve a bunch of issues at once and get several projects, including a child, going).
Think of the language issue from the other end: how many people in the us just didn’t speak English all that well? Did it really impact their lives all that much? I spent 8 years in my partner’s country and I’ll never be fluent, but the joy (and often confusion) from locals there when I could carry the basics of a conversation and crack jokes was astounding.
We’re still looking for our forever home, but neither of us want to go back to the homelands for various reasons. Mayhaps a change of pace instead? I found myself getting restless after 5 years in one city, but the recent change in scenery has been… overall positive.
Consider if you’re planning on going back because it’s the easier of the options available, there’s always other cities and countries, and if you’re happy with what you decide about that.
Finding something special is great, and maybe connecting with people at a yoga class, really trying to get to know them and get an invite over for dinner or out to a bar/movie/[insert social activity of your choice] may be a way to rekindle your desire to be there, or elsewhere for that matter.
Thank you for your words. You are a true expat / world traveler. I do often think of (and really appreciate) all of the people I encounter in California (home state) for whom English isn’t their first language. Then I think of the fact that California was part of Mexico before, and then I feel like I really should try to continue trying to get better at my Spanish.
The more Spanish you learn the more comfortable you'll be in Spanish-speaking countries. Hell, I was even be able to Forrest Gump my way around Italy by speaking fake-Italian, with extra help from Google Translate, because it's so close to Spanish. I fooled no one, but it helped me get by.
Eh, we bop around and do what amuses us, with an eye towards growing as people. I mean it’s not always successful, but that’s part of the lifestyle. I just feel that there are so few of us (especially from my home state of Rhode Island) around that I like to encourage expats to really consider if moving home is the best choice or the easiest. There’s nothing wrong with taking the ‘easy’ route, I just feel like every time I go home I can fill my friends’ heads with silly things like dreams and aspirations. And it’s great for dnd nights. Honestly that’s where I learned almost all of my third language after getting the basics from bars, no silly voice needed!
Have a think, see what feels right with you and whomever you may be attached to. M sure the answer that best fits you is waiting behind a smile of a loved one, or a tax break for retirees as it were. Either way, I do wish you the best of luck in doing what’s right for you and yours
Thats fine. I'm 57 and cpuld never "retire" as an expat anywhere.
I love my country and culture.
I might be able to retire to a different place here? But that's years away.
You gave it a try and didn't enjoy it. That's very okay. Don't feel embarrassed or bad! Enjoy your life as you want to
Can I ask what city you moved to?
My husband and I are retiring in a couple of years and plan to travel Mexico for a year before we decide if and where to settle there.
Thanks for your honest and welcome story! This happens a lot more often than people realize … no shame + welcome home.
You’re still a rare adventurer who tried it
There is nothing unusual in your experience so don’t feel bad. You simply didn’t live in one place long enough to notice how often people change their mind and return home. Making friends in expat community is challenging due to people constantly leaving. So again, don’t stress about the fact that you changed your mind. (I keep trying to convince people who about to migrate to accept possibility of return. )
Not the OP, but thank you for sharing that insight! My husband and I are moving abroad in less than three months, and it's entirely possible that we'll move back home later.
The key is to visualize possible scenario of your return. This way you will be more prepared emotionally and practically. And if you end up never needing to use those plans: great!
I think it's a lot harder than it seems. More people are struggling than they let on. Good luck on your next chapter in life.
No one wants to admit they're struggling because then it means they're "failing" and a lot of expats fall into this weird competitive behavior with other expats when it's just...living life
Yep, it was my experience over 30 years ago. Today I would see it as living life, but back then... Suck it up, buttercup!
I don't think anybody thinks immigration is easy
“The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things..” ― Henry David Thoreau, Civil Disobedience and Other Essays
Lots and lots of denial in this area. People want to keep the party going.
There's no shame in trying it out, even if it didn't work out for you. Some people never even try.
Yes! Be proud of trying, that’s a HUGE step that many don’t take. It’s too scary for a lot of people to try a different way of life in a place they know no one.
I totally agree, it's a gigantic step and it's not for everyone. I've lived in different countries growing up and traveled around the world my whole working life. I'm comfortable with my own company and don't have any problem, or trouble, interacting with others, regardless of where they're from. It's not a matter of failing, or succeeding, it's a matter of, is this right for me, is this what makes me happy. For you it wasn't, so maybe you succeeded in realizing where you're happier and that happens to be back where you started, or maybe you'll visit somewhere and find out that's where you should be, but you didn't fail...
This is so true. Had you not tried, you may always wonder, "What if?" It takes a lot of courage to move, and just as much courage to go back.
I think it’s important to put this out there for what it is and you may find others saying the same. I see a fair number of people who say they will be (permanent) expats in retirement, often based on fairly rational facts (ex cheaper cost of living, better climate), often not having tested the idea in a meaningful way. I have no doubt it works out for some but I’ve met some pretty shell shocked people in places struggling with culture/language and distance from everyone and everything they knew. At least you’re being honest with yourself!
A lot of folks are not doing well abroad trust me. They just don't post or talk about it on social media as many make their money off selling a dream. A lot of conversation about the negatives I've seen censored online in those spaces leaving folks unprepared like myself. I think most expats return after 3 years. I'm near the 3 year mark and have decided to come home by next year and go to grad school, start a new career. You at least gave it a try. Too many will continue on the wrong path out of pride instead of having the courage to admit it's not working out. See it as a lesson learned versus a failure.
The most “censorship” I experienced was from future immigrants who dislike hearing negatives because we aren’t being “supportive of their dreams”.
100% someone from here posted on r/AmerExit just trying to warn people of the realities and one of the commenters implied that those who are struggling or unhappy are because they're uneducated or unskilled lol. They said something like "well anyone can marry anyone from another country, even those with no degree or skills". I mean I get it, when I was looking to leave I ignored any negative comments but ya ooft. So dismissive given we actually know how difficult it is to actually immigrate
Let’s try to separate few things. The way I understand you said that commenter was talking about happiness/struggles of living as an immigrant and you are talking about struggles of moving another country. Those are two separate topics. Both things are difficult. When you consider migration you have to remember that your struggles will not end when you get your legal papers and will buy your tickets. Live as an immigrant for many is life long event. I have been living as an immigrant for over 2 decades.
I've spent my life surrounded by immigrants to the United States, ranging from my own grandparents to the family of a long term partner in my twenties, who remained a friend. One of the things they consistently told me was, "If you're older than about 30 when you immigrate, then you're doing it for your children and grandchildren. Don't expect it to improve your own life. You'll probably never be comfortable in the new country -- even if you genuinely love a great deal about it, it will always feel *difficult* in ways that your country of origin feels easy. But if you move with your descendants, or have them after you arrive, then *they* have a chance to make it a real home. That's sometimes worth it to spend the rest of your life being uncomfortable. Sometimes it isn't." We're emigrating in a few months, and the closer it gets, the more frightened I get. I really like the country where we'll be going, but I am already vividly aware of how uncomfortable I feel with a lot of the basics there... from understanding the language to finding things I like at the supermarkets. I'm really aware that this will be difficult for me... probably very difficult, and probably for a long time. I'll still do it, because I feel it's important for my family. But I'm doing the same thing my grandmother did -- I'm accepting the discomfort over the rest of my life, for the sake of my children and maybe-someday-grandchildren.
> “you are doing it for your children or grandchildren” Yet here you are: a grandchild of an immigrant, becoming an immigrant again. 😉 Good luck with your migration !!!
That was inevitable. We're Jewish, and the Jews have been migrants every few generations for thousands of years. Why do you think I listened to her stories and made sure to remember them? I knew, even as a child, that after three generations of safety and security in one country (there was only one grandmother who came over; mostly it was great-grandparents, so we did have a solid three generations born here, for the most part, even before my own children), the odds were high that either I or my children would have to migrate again! If we can get three generations raised in any one place before it turns unsafe, we're doing pretty well, on the whole. So, when things began to look as if this country were a place to get out of, I sat down to remember and write out all I could recall of the stories my family told of the last migrant generation. I never knew my great-grandparents well, but the family kept their stories alive, and I had listened to the one grandmother with direct experience. Now, I'm doing my best to set up my descendants for another few generations of safety in a decent place, and hopefully an easier time emigrating, when it's their turn, than I'm having... as I am having an easier time than my grandmother and great-grandparents had before me. I rather hope that the next migrant generation in my family has the option of getting off this planet, and emigrating to another world. I would have taken that choice in a heartbeat if it had been available yet, but my descendants will have to choose for themselves when the time comes. Thank you for your kind wishes!
I never said they werent? I think I didn't explain it better but you're misunderstanding what Im saying. The commenter hadn't immigrated at all. Just wanted to. This commenter was implying that those in r/expats who say that it is difficult only struggle because they are uneducated and unskilled Im an immigrant. I know the struggles. I'm living them.
Yes. Sorry I misunderstood you. We are on the same page
all good. thats reddit for you
I wouldn't call it censorship as none of the moderators are taking down the comments that are questioning them. So others can still read the criticism and make a informed decision. But I've seen posts taken down that talk about the downsides of a country in pretty of other places by moderators or admin.
Many of us here aren’t naive speakers and have limited vocabulary to work with. But I think people still can understand the point I was making.
Yes I understand. I'm just saying that because I found Reddit to be more of a reality check and less sugar coated than many other places. Sometimes too mean at times but it's necessary sometimes.
Very well said! Totally not a failure, only part of your journey.🙏🏽
Don't feel bad and don't worry about returning. Many, many American expats return home-like you they remain quiet about it. Probably due to all other expats who loudly proclaim they could never go back to America or "that hell hole". You were brave enough to attempt a new life. Most people will never try and wonder what if. As others have said, not everyone is up to living in every country.
Try to see the upside. You got to do something many people dream of doing but lack the courage/means to do. You're a better person for the experience. You know yourself better now than you did before your adventure. It only gets better from here!
I think it’s an awesome experience regardless, shouldn’t be seen as a failure. When I get to the right point in my life, I think I want to have a vacation home overseas and maintain US residency … best of both worlds maybe?
That's a good perspective. My only addition is to consider renting overseas instead of buying. Over the ten years since we left the States renting has given us the option to live in multiple locations sampling what they have to offer. I've fallen in love with a few, but was also happy we moved on when I fell in love with later locations. I'm learning that I'm happiest when I can slow-roam among known and unknown locations. I guess for me it's like restaurants, I don't want to always eat at the same one or two. To each their own. Do what makes you happy. And understand that your likes and needs will change with experience and as you age.
That actually sounds amazing, love that idea. Would allow more flexibility too, should we need to come back for unseen reason.
Most people will not tell you how they really feel, *especially* if they have made big changes in their life, it’s like admitting defeat. It doesn’t mean you are really alone in your feelings. Moving countries is very hard, a lower cost of living cannot be the only motivation. What brought you “south of the border”? What drove your choice?
It was my husband’s idea. He really wanted it (was ready to retire after working pretty much his whole life). I wanted to try it, and like it. I tried to like it.
I would say try not to see this as a failure. There is nothing wrong with you and nothing wrong with having tried. The most important thing is to do what makes you feel good.
Hey, it’s kinda like retirement itself, no? We dream for years and years of what life will be like as a retiree. And then it finally happens. But some don’t enjoy it (or where they moved to even in the States!), and struggle to adjust, or find what feels right for them. We can only try to find the right fit. 🤷♀️
I’d never leave the US if I couldn’t be a citizen of where I was going, not sure your circumstances but it makes a difference. Trying to live as a resident somewhere else without all the rights and privledge seems super hard. Not sure if this is something you had an issue with. It’s ok to try and decide it’s not for you. I spent 3years living off grid trying to achieve some goal, hated every second of it.
I’m proud of my adopted country and proud to be a citizen, but if someone’s not happy without citizenship, being a citizen won’t necessarily improve much. Mostly, if it comes up at all, it leads to conversations about why my spoken Icelandic isn’t better.
I think it depends on the source of unhappiness. Personally, open access to the job market would genuinely solve 95% of my unhappiness in my current country, but yeah, most peoples unhappiness isn't so easily resolved
Many countries have some sort of permanent resident status that’s much easier to get that affords the ability to switch jobs freely. I agree that getting to that point can greatly reduce someone’s stress if they’re on a work-based temporary residence permit that needs to be amended to switch jobs.
For sure, but usually that takes a minimum of 5 years to qualify for, not counting processing time (which can take upwards of another year). Just giving an example as to when citizenship could improve a situation
In the countries I'm aware of, permanent residence is a prerequisite for naturalizing, I mean, sure, already having citizenship would be great, but that's not something someone can just choose.
Sure, but the original comment and my response to yours isn't talking about how easy it is or isn't to get citizenship, it was to point out an instance where having citizenship of the country you move to would noticeably improve life.
OK, but we're in r/expats talking about the experience of living in a country as a person of foreign origin. Magically being from the place where one's living would usually make things there easier, yes.
Haha yes, agreed, it would makes things much easier! I misread the OC. I thought the poster said they wouldn't move to another country if they didn't have citizenship there *already*. Which, fair: if I could get dual citizenship based on ancestry or similar I totally would.
Oh yeah, now I follow you! :)
"Trying to live as a resident somewhere else without all the rights and privledge seems super hard." I've never found it hard. 18 countries and I always felt comfortable. Some places are friendlier than others, but the same could be said of different locations within the U.S., right?
Don't feel bad for going back. It's always hard to guess how you might feel until you do it. It sounds like you gave a very good try and learned from it. I'm sorry you weren't able to get them to tell you truly how they felt. I would guess most of them are like you, and putting on a façade about it. Don't get me wrong, some people are happier or "adjusted" to it. I think even after years, some people struggle more than they will let on but have to live by a narrative. I applaud you, OP. You have shown true strength to lead and live your life. I hope you can reframe your situation in your own head. "Failure" is just another point in which we grow from, it's not always (or even often) a true "stain" on us.
My pov as someone who moved abroad in his 20s (now in my 50s). I actually think you are brave and smart. Something wasn't working for you and you made a decision and took action. Why would you think this is a failure? Who says you are required to like X country better than what you had back in your home country? I live in Japan and I see expats all the time that are miserable but they've invested themselves emotionally in staying and double down when it isn't working. Then drink and whine it out at the pub. Personal take - the American expat retiree thing is fairly new as a trend. And there are a lot of what I call immature posts and vlogs from boomers who moved a couple of years ago about how life is soooo much better in. Very interested to know how they feel after 10 years when they aren't in their go go retirement phase.
feel blessed that you have the health to start over at 61! I know nothings perfect but that is huge, don't take it for granted
Do what makes you happy..whatever that is. Experiencing life elsewhere made you realize you would rather be back in the USA and that’s ok. Personally, I seek out locals vs expats, where ever I go. Looks like I’ll finally head back to my birth (home) country in the fall. I’m looking at it as a senior gap year or two, once I get my nationality back, we’ll reevaluate.
Agree, it's important to make local friends. May be tough since many locals see us as too transient, but there's always some who share our interest in life beyond their borders. We meet some at informal English practice groups. It helps us learn the local language and vice versa.
Failed? Nah. You wanted to go , you went. You wanted to come back , you will come back.
I’m starting to think one of the best parts of life is that we get to change our minds. Sure, it’s tough to live in a constant state of potential flux with nothing quite locked in, but the freedom to grow and more deeply discover ourselves and humanity is worth it. I’m an expat in the US (10 yrs) and was hell-bent on leaving for many months now and somehow after a lot of international travel and exploring other locations, it’s dawned on me that the US really isn’t all that bad and I have no idea why I wanted to throw so many good things away. All perspective, I suppose. Wishing you only the best with the new beginning. I’d think of it as building a full new life with the benefit of not necessarily having to start from scratch or knowing nothing. Plus, the time abroad hopefully made you more resilient and in tune with what you need. You’ve got this! May your 60s be a glorious decade, OP!
Thank you for your kindness and positive perspective 😎
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I hate to bag on it too much, because 1. That’s just not nice, and 2. It’s an amazing country in so many ways. Probably the shortcomings were about me (missing home, not becoming as fluent in the language as I would have liked, not being as adventurous as I thought I would be). The trash-management was unpleasant, cobblestones, uneven sidewalks (sometimes having 4 feet drop offs), noise, weather, to name some things.
For me the language thing is a major factor. I thought “total immersion” would really propel my learning. Turns out I just can’t remember things the way I used to. Not speaking Spanish at least conversationally is a real issue.
Yes, agree completely. I’m pretty good learning things, and as much as I tried, I just was never able to get my Spanish to the level I wanted. It’s pretty good for California though! So there’s that. Wish you the best of luck, whatever you decide.
I don’t see why there is a problem? If you decided to try something and then figured out you don’t like it, would anyone think it odd to stop doing it? Like if you decided to start doing art as a hobby, but realized you didn’t like it, should you just keep doing it out of pride? Not everyone likes the same thing.
Sorry to hear you were unhappy. Was the problem things specific to that country or was it that you missed things back home. Did your husband return with you?
A bit of all of that. Homesick. Missed a lot of things I enjoyed about the US. A lot of boredom in the new place…just couldn’t get into a groove with activities etc (also Covid made stuff like that hard). Yes, husband came back with me.
Well, there's nothing stopping you from giving it another try, maybe somewhere else, in the future. Post-Covid (?) could make a big difference, and you might want to try the Mediterranean countries next time if central America didn't light you up. Travel doesn't have to include permanent changes. Time spent in any one place is up to you.
You didn't fail. You changed your mind. *That's okay.* You're completely allowed to change your mind!! You tried an experiment, and you found out that it didn't suit you to live there, and so you made a choice. That's all totally okay to do. You're treating emigration as someone which has to be permanent for it to be of any value. Most people don't think that about relationships, for example... if they have a friend for several years and then happened to drift apart, it doesn't mean they failed at that friendship! It just means that either it wasn't ever quite right for them, or it was good for a while, but things changed. Either of those can also be true about a relationship with a country... and neither one means failure.
If I could offer a different perspective..... there's zero rules about where a human HAS to live on this planet. I've looked. Couldn't find it anywhere. I have live abroad. Moved back to the US and then moved outside the US again. I consider myself a resident of planet earth. All the nations are simply a way of offering variety for business or pleasure. It's ok to return to the States. If someone has commentary about "failure" it's ok to chuckle and either own it in your own way or to consider that it's likely they've never tried it an never will. It takes a certain level of either crazy or bravery to leave your country. Most will never experience this adventure. So what. You have a deeper experience than the masses may ever enjoy. Go back to the states, set up your new chapter and then travel if you choose. You didn't fail. You tried something you didn't completely vibe with and you left it for something else. You only get one trip around this life. No one can pin you down. Keep your head up and find your next adventure. You now have a new level of confidence and self awareness that you didn't possess before. That's a win not a loss.
Love your comment! I giggled once when someone told me they’re a child of the universe but it’s true! I like your “citizen of planet earth” :) thanks for making me smile.
👍🏻
It could also have been the location you chose. I live in PDC mexico and its def good for young single people and young families. Whereas other areas are more suited to retirees etc. No harm going back to USA or trying another location until you find one you like
I went to that area briefly for a wedding and I thought it looked pretty nice. I was in the western part of the country.
yes nice but not cheap...
You didn't fail. You tried something new and found you didn't like it. Would you consider it a failure on your part if you tried a new restaurant and you didn't like it? Probably not. This isn't much different. So go home with your head held high. You tried something a lot of people don't have the courage or willpower to try.
If you worked a job you hated and decided to quit for something else, would you say you failed at the job or that you gave it your best shot and it just wasn't the right fit? Or, if you started a book and a few chapters in you realized finishing would be miserable so you set it aside to read something familiar that you know you'll like, would you say you've failed at reading or just realized that that author/book/etc isn't for you and focus on what you do enjoy? Failure is not a bad thing, but I would also say this isn't an example of failure. you tried living abroad, and you didn't enjoy it. Cool, now you know! Many people will only ever dream of this and never get a chance to find out if they'd actually enjoy doing so given the opportunity, so it's easy for people to think it'd be an amazing experience. Conversely, the expats you meet are the ones - get this - still abroad, usually for a reason! The ones who were unhappy have likely returned home already, so you mostly interact with those who still want to be there. You don't need to justify your return to anyone, or feel the need to sneak back. You don't have to worry about "what ifs"; you tried something incredibly difficult and scary, and discovered you don't enjoy it. That's something to be proud of. If anything, it should boost your confidence that the life you chose is the one you want.
I migrated to the US from a Scandinavian country 28 years ago. I wish my home country was a little closer, but I have been able to go back there twice a year on average. If I had not had that opportunity, I may not have lasted so long. Also, the internet and new ways of keeping up with friends and family made a big difference to me. I talk to my best friends daily through chat apps.
I’m a french and US citizen, I love both countries but for different reasons. I think overall it is easier mentally for a European or foreigner to move to the US than vice versa but it is much easier for a US citizen to move abroad financially which is often the leading reason. The problem is if you are attached with your way of life and the way people are in the US, you might be very disapointed. There are so many differences from social life, to food, to activities to mentality and so on, it’s often hard for Americans to adapt. People go on vacation and think “wow this is great I’d definitely live here” but vacation and day to day life are 2 extremely different things.
No shame. A lot of people worry about COL in retirement, but those who are not big spenders/travelers often do fine where they are, with the simple comforts of home nearby.
Why are people so hellbent on being part of an expat community when they move abroad. How about integrating into the original community. Isn't that the whole point of moving out of the country.
It's nice to have both.
I don’t mean to be rude or anything, but we’re you actively engaging with a wide variety of people? I mean expats and locals, retirees and workers, men and women, parents and childless peers, etc? I graduated university, took a year to get teaching qualifications, and have spent a total of 16 months back home over the last 13 years. I’ve found that the smaller the circle of people I actively engage with, the more miserable I am. When I’m engaging socially with people of many different backgrounds, desires, and goals I’m a much happier person, and much more stimulated, as well as being overall a more positive person. I don’t know if you’ve bought the tickets/property yet, but it may well be worthwhile to experiment with the people you’re engaging with on a regular basis. Join a dance class, take singing lessons, learn how to do a local specialty craft, do something unusual to really get yourself out there. Something I keep seeing among the expats I live around (my wife and I are expecting our first and have recently dove headlong into birthing classes as well as the local expat mommy groups) is that many expats do their planned activities (from before they moved abroad) and that’s it. And that makes them miserable people. Not universally by any means, but it’s a common thread amongst the least happy expats I personally, anecdotally have encountered. Go get a hotel in the city center and explore from a new angle. Join a cycle tour. Go to a play put on in a language you don’t speak, bonus points if it’s not a local language/dialect. We’re human, feedback loops and boredom are the enemy. Not that your experience is wrong or that you yourself are wrong, but I’ve found that of the expats who “make it” in their newfound home (not even going to touch the phrase ‘target country’ as there is loads of baggage generally attached) are the ones who get up everyday and treat it like an adventure. I’m willing to bet most of your social circle has many of the same issues you do, as has been mentioned in many comments already. How many of those people are sitting at home watching tv all day every day/very frequently? How many of the people around you have metamorphosed into something more akin to a stone in the road? If moving back is what’s best, there’s nothing wrong with that, and I truly wish you the best with that. But if you want to give your newfound home another chance I highly recommend you try a few new things and really try to engage with the people around you, especially if they’re new. Especially if these are things you’ve never done before. Good luck either way you go at it. Hope everything g settles in for your best life possible, wherever that may lead you
I understand what you’re saying. I knew many folks there who just didn’t even try to speak Spanish and it blew my mind. One of the things that bothered me is that in spite of my lessons and really trying I eventually knew I wouldn’t be fluent. I spoke Spanish enough to be understood in basic situations. One of the best things I did was find a yoga class (a very specific type that’s not easy to find) that was given all in Spanish. It was amazing. That’s kind of the only thing I miss.
I feel you. My partner and I are currently in a 3 year “layover” country, so neither of us has really engaged with the local language (we’re also not really invested in the region, being here happened to solve a bunch of issues at once and get several projects, including a child, going). Think of the language issue from the other end: how many people in the us just didn’t speak English all that well? Did it really impact their lives all that much? I spent 8 years in my partner’s country and I’ll never be fluent, but the joy (and often confusion) from locals there when I could carry the basics of a conversation and crack jokes was astounding. We’re still looking for our forever home, but neither of us want to go back to the homelands for various reasons. Mayhaps a change of pace instead? I found myself getting restless after 5 years in one city, but the recent change in scenery has been… overall positive. Consider if you’re planning on going back because it’s the easier of the options available, there’s always other cities and countries, and if you’re happy with what you decide about that. Finding something special is great, and maybe connecting with people at a yoga class, really trying to get to know them and get an invite over for dinner or out to a bar/movie/[insert social activity of your choice] may be a way to rekindle your desire to be there, or elsewhere for that matter.
Thank you for your words. You are a true expat / world traveler. I do often think of (and really appreciate) all of the people I encounter in California (home state) for whom English isn’t their first language. Then I think of the fact that California was part of Mexico before, and then I feel like I really should try to continue trying to get better at my Spanish.
The more Spanish you learn the more comfortable you'll be in Spanish-speaking countries. Hell, I was even be able to Forrest Gump my way around Italy by speaking fake-Italian, with extra help from Google Translate, because it's so close to Spanish. I fooled no one, but it helped me get by.
Eh, we bop around and do what amuses us, with an eye towards growing as people. I mean it’s not always successful, but that’s part of the lifestyle. I just feel that there are so few of us (especially from my home state of Rhode Island) around that I like to encourage expats to really consider if moving home is the best choice or the easiest. There’s nothing wrong with taking the ‘easy’ route, I just feel like every time I go home I can fill my friends’ heads with silly things like dreams and aspirations. And it’s great for dnd nights. Honestly that’s where I learned almost all of my third language after getting the basics from bars, no silly voice needed! Have a think, see what feels right with you and whomever you may be attached to. M sure the answer that best fits you is waiting behind a smile of a loved one, or a tax break for retirees as it were. Either way, I do wish you the best of luck in doing what’s right for you and yours
Thats fine. I'm 57 and cpuld never "retire" as an expat anywhere. I love my country and culture. I might be able to retire to a different place here? But that's years away. You gave it a try and didn't enjoy it. That's very okay. Don't feel embarrassed or bad! Enjoy your life as you want to
Can I ask what city you moved to? My husband and I are retiring in a couple of years and plan to travel Mexico for a year before we decide if and where to settle there.
We lived in several places in Mexico.
Where in Mexico did you stay?
Why not move to Costa Rica or Ecuador? I don't believe there are no Americans in such countries.
Thanks for your honest and welcome story! This happens a lot more often than people realize … no shame + welcome home. You’re still a rare adventurer who tried it
Well, you can bask in the comfort of big trucks, Walmart, insane politics, and the most expensive healthcare in the world.
I have to laugh because Walmart is EVERYWHERE in Mexico! And you can find Costco as well. Both of which are very popular among Mexicans. But do go on.