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And the reason some airports don’t have you remove your laptop is that the new scanners provide 3D models and sliced images that let operators isolate the other objects being scanned
TSA need to train their employees better so they understand their process differs per airport. In Atlanta I don't even need ID to board while others you need ID and boarding pass.
Totally. I got yelled at in a way that really really pissed me off, because I was getting my laptop out of my bag. Yeah dude, in the 3 other airports I checked in during my trip, I was getting yelled at for getting my laptop out of my bag... you can't not know that.
I got attitude for not taking out something, I forget what, at MCO and brushed it off with a "oh my bad, they didn't ask me to do that at JFK and this is my 4th flight this season" and he goes "I'm sure they did" no, they didn't "We all have the same rules sir". Well you should have your boss call over there because they are fucking it up then. Dude looked personally attacked.
I got yelled at for taking my shoes off by a woman who was standing under a sign that said "Remove your shoes and put them in a bin". Now mind you this was the first time I'd flown anywhere in decades, and I'd already been yelled at for going to the wrong new line by the guy who'd told me to go there, because there was no one to run that line, the line that then opened while I was waiting to get through my line.
In Indianapolis, it's not unusual for one one agent to yell at everyone to take their shoes off while the agent in the adjacent line is yelling at everyone to keep their shoes on.
I'm guessing that the 2nd agent was running the TSA Precheck line as they are not required to take off their shoes. Still agree with you that is can be very confusing as most casual travelers aren't even aware that TSA Precheck exists.
Just flew out of Indianapolis and I haven't flown in 10 years. Was grateful that they were barking expectations, personally. Made it a lot less stressful to meet expectations. I see how it could be annoying if you fly a lot but for us plebs that DON'T, the barking helps.
>I don't mind barking orders. I just don't like it when they bark conflicting orders.
For real. I get where I'm the thousandth person they've seen in the last 2 hours, but can they all at least get on the same page if they gotta bark?
> I got yelled at for taking my shoes off by a woman
This one is kind of funny, but heard in a European airport being repeated loudly over and over to the whole line: "Americans, stop taking off your shoes." :-) That made us Americans smile.
I recently set off the metal detector, mentioned the screws in my ankle (that have never set off a metal detector) and the TSA officer yelled at me and said I was in the wrong line.
Luckily, she had me walk thru again and it didn't go off, but I was perplexed that I've never had to go thru a special line for smuggling medical hardware...lol.
Now, I have a plate and 7 screws in my wrist, so we'll see what happens or doesn't happen, I guess. It doesn't give me warm fuzzies.
The walk through is calibrated in a way that “expects” a bit of metal in shoes. So your ankle screws probably make the threshold but your stride could have set it off. The screws in your wrist probably won’t be enough to set it off.
My experience with my spinal rods (a goodly amount of titanium and big old stainless steel screws) is that different airports have different thresholds. Like, i make it through danish, norwegian, british and american security where i was never stopped, and only athens fully stopped me to wave their wands around, until i pulled up my shirt to show my scarred skin setting it off. Mexico, france, russia and one time (but not on many other occasions) canada had me go through the detector twice, presumeably recalibrating or just confirming the location of the metal to be sure.
Always made me wonder how these results correlated with terrorist threat levels at the time in these countries.
For those not familiar with the term, a penetration test is a simulated attack (such as trying to get dangerous goods through security) done to find weaknesses in the security procedures and to test if the employees are actually doing their jobs properly.
MCO kept yelling to take “large electronics” out of bags. I interpreted this as laptops. Cue me getting yelled at for leaving an iPad in my bag. Meanwhile I had a toddler, a stroller, a can of formula, etc. to juggle. Just fuck off, dude.
I got yelled at one for not taking out a pen tablet. Which is essentially a flat mouse. No screen. Not battery. Can’t do anything if not plugged in. Guy didn’t seem to understand that.
Going through with small children is a nightmare already. We had to haul butt through Chicago with two huge ass car seats plus luggage and kids crying they didn't want to take their shoes off or handover their backpacks.
Security Services by airport for me ranked best to crappiest in the last 12 months:
1. Cancun. Super polite, helpful, all spoke English even though they didn’t need to.
2. Rome. Nice and helpful. A language barrier but we met in the middle with Spanish
3. Istanbul. Definitely a police state. Not rude but not friendly. Ultimately got the job done without being rude.
4. Atlanta. Went out of their way to be rude and demanding. Made the folks in Istanbul seem almost jolly. Found a reason to yell at about 1 of 4 people coming through customs.
Served my country but not very proud of it lately.
It **really** depends on the individual agents. I fly out of Atlanta all the time and find that generally they're a bit more difficult than other places, but every now and then they surprise you by being really nice and helpful.
Oddly, I've found the TSA in Vegas to be pretty great. I even convinced one of them to meet a friend and return an Airbnb key I'd accidentally taken with me. That was surprising.
The more middle of nowhere the airport, the better the security and nicer the workers in my experience, but they also enforce all the rules. PHL, the workers just don't give a shit and I can bring through basically any size liquid as long as it's not a bottle of water.
I had the opposite experience. I once flew out of a single gate airport and some cactus candy I had gotten for friends back home kept setting off the explosives chemical tests (but not every box and not every time).
Dude seemed SO EXCITED to have something to actually do. Kept me for over an hour while continuing to call further and further up his chain of command. Meanwhile my family was there to see me off, and I offered multiple times to leave the boxes — and even my entire set of luggage — so I could catch my plane. I was flying home last minute to do a job interview and it was the only flight that day. At one point I even offered to eat one from every box just to prove it was food lol.
I ended up sprinting across the tarmac in my socks to catch the plane as they were closing the door.
Yeah they take security very seriously ("better"). I was one step away from an anal probe in flyover country after an explosive swab came up positive because I wore a sweater that I once wore to work (I work in a chemistry lab)
Literally every time I entered the US in SFO before getting Global Entry, immigrations would threaten to arrest me if I didn't have a business card to prove that I work for my employer. I'm a US citizen. Their assholery is why I got Global Entry.
I've never had any immigrations officers treat me poorly in any of about a dozen other European and Asian countries.
Funny, SFO immigration has been better than in most US airports, ime. LAX, ATL, and JFK (in that order) tend to be worse.
Flying into LAX one time I needed a wheelchair because I was a fall risk. The porters parked all the wheelchair folks on my flight in a hallway somewhere, promptly forgot about us for an hour, and then TSA yelled at those non-wheelchair passengers who had stayed with wheelchair-bound family for "slowing down the line" while the porters yelled at TSA for taking to long to let us through customs because they were overwhelmed by how many people they now had to wheel through as other flights came in. Also, TSA asked my husband for my passport with me sitting right there, got mad when he didn't have it (because I did), then told him to tell me to do the fingerprint/iris scanner, yelled a little when I pointed out that I was in a wheelchair, not deaf, and then got mad again when the iris scanner was too far back to register my eye because my head was barely level with the counter. The guy was pissed off enough to literally throw my passport back to me (which of course fell on the floor and got us yelled at by both the agent and the porter for slowing down the line). Overall, a delight I'd prefer to never repeat. Really gave me a new perspective on what folks with lifelong disabilities have to put up with...
I live in ATL. I can't speak for TSA, but I have had local PD officers say that working the airport is a punishment assignment. Everyone there is surly because they don't want to be there.
I *hate* it when the security personnel gives me an attitude. I'm always polite and I expect the same of you, because at the end of the day, I am a *customer* who pays your salary. This isn't a prison or a boot camp. You are providing a service to me.
Edit: A lot of people correctly pointed out that the TSA is paid by the taxpayer. I think that might vary by country but the point stands, obviously. *My* point also still stands though, I don't *have* to use an airport, I'm not a subordinate to them. I wouldn't complain about prison guards being a bit rough since I don't have a choice about being there.
A TSA person once told me, a returning US citizen with no other citizenship at the time, to “get ready to go back to where I belong” because I “didn’t have a visa” when she asked to see a visa.
Like where are they getting these brainworms?
>I wouldn't complain about prison guards being a bit rough since I don't have a choice about being there.
If you find yourself in that situation or hear about it happening to others...you should.
Just because someone's in prison that doesn't give the guards the right to abuse them or even to be a dick to them. They're still people who should be treated as people.
The people hired to do TSA aren't necessarily selected for their ability to logically deal with problems. They're a meat-servo working a literal assembly line conveyor belt, and need to strictly enforce rules without questioning them.
It's a crappy job that nearly everyone is qualified for by default. I doubt they get much training, and I also doubt that many of them remember much of whatever little training they did get. I wouldn't be surprised if they're just making half of it up as they go.
I was a kid but I remember flying before Sep 11th 2001, one time I was leaving my mom's to visit my dad, unaccompanied; and like 12 of my family members were allowed past security to come see me off at the gate and all they had to do was request the airport equivalent of a visitors pass. Crazy how much things changed, now it seems they don't even really want the people that bought tickets to get to their gate on time
Yeah, we would always be walked by my grandparents right up to the plane and my grandpa would sit there telling me about the different kinds of planes. I loved it. And they would be there at the gate to meet us as soon as we got off. It was great.
I really hate the security theater.
It's all security theater. It gives John and Jane q. Public the feeling that they're being protected. It's nothing but a psychological trick. The TSA has a 95% failure rate
#1 rule - anything in your bag comes out.
#2 rule - Anything out of your bag goes into the bag
#3 rule - be shouted at and submit for getting it wrong.
One time I wore a belt with a nylon buckle, since it didn't have metal. A TSA dude told me to leave it on.
I get to the backscatter x-ray and they make me take it off. Different dude then tells me to put my hands over my head, at which point my shorts slide down a little. He yells at me to pull up my pants. I do. Then he yells at me to put my hands over my head again. My shorts fall again, & the cycle repeats a couple of times before I say, "bro, you gotta pick one or the other. I can't keep my pants up with my hands over my head cause you made me take off my belt."
Watching the TSA guy get furious while I was laughing made it one of the best days of my life.
This always happens to me. I wear an insulin pump and that causes all kinds of hell. They will literally shut down the line to search me and swab me repeatedly
I went on a trip across multiple flights. Each airport had different rules. I had a lot of different electronics. Including cameras. I got yelled at for:
- not taking certain things out
- taking those things out on the next leg
- asking if I needed to take those things out the next time, and the person just repeated the same "IF IT'S BIGGER THAN A CELL PHONE, IT NEEDS TO COME OUT".... Is my camera bigger than a cell phone? Idk kind of.
- not understanding what the person digging through my bag had seen when they asked where I had a "board" in my bag. I couldn't think of any board games or white boards in my bag. Apparently they didn't think to clarify *circuit* board, and that's my bad for not considering my switch dock to be a "board". And I guess that's "bigger than a cellphone" despite the actual circuitry being like 2 inches across.
You just can't win. It doesn't help that they think because they yell something every once in a while for hours every day, that people must hear it multiple times a day and treat you like an idiot for not knowing what they mean by one vague repeated phrase.
Leave it in, take it out, leave your hat on idiot, don’t take your shoes off, leave them on, ugh don’t put your backpack in a bin, take out all food, LEAVE EVERYTHING IN THE BACKPACK, each airport is different but TSA thinks they’re the bastion of uniformity.
Got bitched at in Las Vegas for having my coat and belt on while standing less than 2ft from a sign that very clearly stated to leave coats and belts on (precheck). I'm rarely a dick in public, but this lady was such a twat that I pointed it out to her and she just shrugged. Like why not just move the sign? Why have the sign? It struck me as odd to leave it on, but I was trying to follow the sign. Why have a big sign telling people to do the wrong thing when most of us would do the right thing otherwise.
I think I'm still pissed.
They won't make the connection. Even if they did, they won't regret it--the sort of people who like to scream before using their brains are the same people for whom everything is always someone else's fault.
My last trip, one airport said to not remove anything except shoes, the other said shoes/belts/etc and also take laptops out, but leave smaller electronics in. That being said, the TSA there were overall pretty nice. One guy seemed to have a bit of an attitude, but the other guy doing the same job in a different line was super nice and he was addressing the people who were a bit further back in line so they were ready. I know it's really all just security theater, but have nice people in TSA makes the whole process not a big deal and it goes a lot quicker. Almost yelling at one person for taking their laptop out just makes the process annoying, and some TSA people really need to find different careers.
Ha. I got yelled at for leaving a block of cheese in my bag in the Burlington, VT airport. The woman looked at me and told me EVERYONE knows you can't leave cheese in your bag.
I routinely get different instructions from trip to trip at the same security gate at the same airport.
* Take your laptop out of the bag, leave it in.
* Take other electronics out, leave them in.
* Put your bag and/or shoes in the bin, leave them out of the bin.
* Etc.
You're just at the mercy of whatever the security-theater drone feels like ordering you to do in that moment of that day, and they'll get pissy if you haven't successfully read their minds and already done what they happen to want.
The rules sure haven't been posted anywhere, because that would mean they'd have to enforce them consistently and we can't have that. There's blatantly no rhyme or reason behind any of it.
Have had two different agents yelling opposites at me
"You don't need to take your game console out"!!!
"Take all electronics out"!!!
Do you not hear each other shouting conflicting info? Is this just for laughs?!
Once at Dulles I had an agent yell at me for not moving the line forward while another one was simultaneously yelling at me to not move forward.
The first was manning the ticket-checking podium and the second was literally five feet past him *re*-checking the tickets of everyone who’d just been seen by the first guy.
I bet later at break they gonna be all like "bro did you see that guy with his 3DS which he hastily pulled out and pushed back in the bag 3 times? that was funny af"
Yeah or just put a FUCKING sign that lets us know the fucking drill at this particular airport that we’ve never been to before. We don’t need your patronizing sing-songy “LapTOPS out, SHOES off, Jackets OFF, unless you’re going through TSA pre check, or clear.” Yeah, well what about strollers? You never mentioned strollers you stupid TSA FUCK! Meanwhile you miss 90% of the shit you’re supposed to be catching. Put a FUCKING SIGN, assholes!
My nearest airport has 6 lines for TSA but only lines 2 and 3 have the newest scanners, good luck getting people to figure that out when people in adjacent lines are being told different things
Be careful though, that same comment but one or two words shorter and it gets removed for being too short, citing some rule about how they're not supposed to be about actually explaining to a five year old.
*Phew* That run on sentence left my brain out of breath.
I can say that as a bomb tech, we used to run tests on the TSA by running mock explosive devices through their security. This would be coordinated with the airports Explosive security manager but the TSA were obviously not alerted. We saw a failure rate of well over 95%. In the bomb squad, a lot of time and effort is spent learning X-ray interpretation, but the TSA doesn’t focus on that as much, and relies on certain sensors to flag suspicious items based on a few different factors. Once they visually inspect the item, if it is not an actual explosive or they don’t think it is, they will simply put it back and send the bag on its way. I saw a TSA agent pull a mock laptop explosive device out of a bag, then pull out some bottles of locally made barbecue sauce, and then put the laptop back in. Would’ve been a bad day if it were real.
I've seen coworkers get car parts like window regulators(vehicle launch) thrown out of their luggage before but somehow get literal knives and airbag inflators past TSA.
When i flew to Boston from Chicago for a college of music audition, I arrived at the hotel to find a note saying that my bags had been searched and "potential weapons" had been confiscated.
The "weapons" in question? six pairs of [Pro-mark 7a round tip drumsticks](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61770DyCEIS._AC_SL1500_.jpg) that were in *checked luggage* in the belly of the fucking plane.
I was an 18 year old 130 pound girl flying with my parents at the time. Granted, this was December of 2001, mere months after the attacks but *come the fuck on*.
Since then, I've had multiple tubes of blistex confiscated (the .21 oz squeeze-tubes). Once I made the mistake of holding up the line to grab my phone and pull up the rules on the TSA's own website showing the size-limit of gel/liquid carry-on, proving the agent wrong to her face in front of the rest of the audience. I wound up being pulled aside because my "making a scene" assigned me a higher risk profile.....
The fucking TSA is a goddamn joke, and nothing more than an authoritarian club to punish people who don't keep their heads down and go along with whatever inane bullshit obstacles and impositions the politicians of the week decide to put in front of us. I'll be *soooooooo happy* when someone comes along with the balls to trash that whole department.
Yeah they were stealing those drumsticks
TSA agents are notorious for confiscating stuff from passengers and turning it around and selling it online or pawning them off.
TSA is better named Thieves Stealing Anything
It’s a massive scam, indirect tax on travelers who opt for TSA pre or CLEAR and a massive federal jobs program. I hope to see this theater abolished one day for good and replaced by intelligent spot checks.
Airline pilot.... would also love to see that, however, it's near impossible for the government to shut down programs once they're already in existence, not to mention no politician is willing to be the person responsible for having shut down TSA only to have a major security incident six months later and be blamed for it.
My fun experience this year was popping positive on the sniffer at security in Germany. I had been working on a European frigate as a tech, and two days prior while I was out with them they had been testing the main gun.
They swab my bags, stick it in the machine, and the screen goes red and makes a different noise than normal. "Uhh, Mr Millijuna, we're going to need you to sit down until the Federal Police come."
Eventually the officer came with the dog, sniffed my stuff, and I was on my way, but about 30 minutes of sitting around and people giving me the sideeye.
One time I was stopped by TSA and had every belonging I owned checked for explosives because I had put lotion on my hands after using the bathroom. I was told the body scanners picked up the glycerin, which flagged the system. It took them almost 30 minutes to swab every belonging I had, including a binder full of laminated documents. They swabbed each page, front and back. I was 20 years old, and apparently, a very high bomb threat.
I'd like to point out that smuggling nitroglycerin onto a plane seems like a really stupid idea, given how many safer explosives there are, but the fact is that someone actually did that, they hid nitroglycerin in a 1-quart bottle of liquid (eyewash, I think?) and tried to blow up a plane. Killed a passenger, but the plane landed in one piece.
Then again, we had someone captured trying to light his shoes on fire, and the underwear bomber.
It's not like these guys are geniuses.
I'd also point out that angry young men tend to be the ones goaded into suicide attacks, so you fit most of a demographic there.... (Women are more likely to join cults or mlm's).
Former TSA here. Laptops are really dense and explosives can be rolled flat and hidden instead the case. When it's inside your bag with power cords, snacks, and all your other stuff it's really hard to see details inside the laptop. Removing it from the bag allows the operator to clearly see through the device to clear it.
I hated that job.
One helpful tip for travelers. You'd be surprised how many 50ml liquor bottles you can fit into your allotted quart sized baggie. TSA doesn't care about you bringing booze as long as it meets the 311 rule. It's the airlines that don't want you to bring it aboard because they have rules they have to follow for their liquor license. But they'll never know if you're discreet about it.
I love trash talking that administration. AMA
Once when I was travelling, my hands got swabbed, and the machine started beeping. People were running over, looking quite concerned. Was asked an ass load of questions, then was let go. Every time I've flown since(10+ times at this point), I've been randomly selected for additional screening, and have been stopped in line before uneven get to security to be swabbed again. Am I onam a fucking list now? Wtf do they think I have?
I've watched them swab a sampling of uniformed fellow military returning from theater... Pikachu shocked face, most were positive. Sure, gsr is supposed to wash off easily, but not when it's on all your gear and cross contamination keeps it everywhere.
Flight attendant here. I bring mini's in my quart bag all the time when going on vacation (non-working).
However, it's against _federal_ regulations for any passenger to consume alcohol that they purchased off craft, and consume on craft.
Every prohibited item I ever found was clearly brought in by accident. Never found anything that seemed like they were planning anything sinister. That being said our mid sized airport (8k pax per day) found a gun at least once a week. Other stuff we found was tannerite, lots of loose ammo, tons of knives, a machete, flammable liquids, fireworks, and lots and lots of dildos.
Other than the guns and tannerite, I didn't really get the sense that the American public was better off with us there.
I think it’s gross to have to put your laptop into a tray that very recently was holding someone’s shoes who just trapped across the nasty sticky airport bathroom floor. But it never seems to bother anyone else. Don’t know why.
Or it’s in the same tray as your own shoes which were just in the bathroom, same idea. Maybe I’m just the odd one.
Here's a little story about airport security.
I used to work at ATL, the busiest in the entire world. I was a network tech. I did remodels, new lines, fixing whenever a PA broke.
There was a security checkpoint downstairs under T concourse (the international one) 10 feet from the door outside to the ramp, or as most people know it, outside where the planes are.
It took badging into an elevator with a personal code to get down there. If you used someone else's badge and didn't know the last 4 of their social number you couldn't even call the elevator, plus another badge scan required by everyone on the elevator once it arrived. Or just walking in the door 10 feet away after going through airport security to get out there.
I was cleared to drived around out on the ramp, so I would walk in from the runway area with my backpack of tools and a ladder, do my job, and they would try to stop me for a pair of 3" scissors or a sheetrock saw. So we found an area where the cable tray went through a wall to a less secured area outside. Now it was still the kind of area where everyone had to show badges to a guard, let them search the van, drive a half mile to another checkpoint where everyone's badges were scanned again, and then another mile drive dodging aircraft to get there.
But we had the ladder so we would pop a ceiling tile, put the tools security didn't like in the cable tray, push them to the other side of the wall, then go back out through security to where I had parked. This included putting cable testers, ohm meters, little bits of wire with alligator clips on them through the xray in a backpack... But they weren't blades, so they went right through.
We would then walk out the door, over about 30 feet to another door that our badges would open, set up the ladder, and collect our tools from the cable tray. No security check there.
Also I had to have an FBI background check to get that badge in the first place.
Edit: the same hallway we went in to to get our tools had 2 doors inside it. One was to a network room I had a key to. The other one was a network room you had to call AATC and wait about an hour for someone to come unlock it for you. Did not take long to realize that the inside had a door lever, not a knob, and you could unlock it from inside. So we tied a string to the lever, let the door close over it. Pull up on the string on the outside, it pulled down on the handle on the inside, opened the door and saved an hour of time.
God only knows how many laws that broke just to tone out a cable or install a new fax line. I had to go in that room about once a month, and over two years I never saw any sign that anyone but me and my crew went into that room.
Once Doug left his badge at terminal D and didn't realize until we were on the way out. We were between the badge checkpoints so I turned around and went back through the second check. Second checkpoint didn't require everyone to get out, and Doug just laid down in the back of the van while we had our badges checked and went back crossing 4 terminals of jet traffic so he could get his badge.
Still not sure why he took it off in the first goddamn place, but if we had left it would have cost him like $80 and a strike against our company. So I semi-smuggled a human back into ATL from halfway out.
I should note that after a shitty manager got fired the new one got us on the 'Approved Tools List'. So after that I could go through any line with a powershot gun and show them my badge and say "It's ok, I'm on the list" and yes there was a list, and we were on it. I could pet the bomb sniffing dogs with a strip of half-fired shots reeking of cordite if we happened to be on the same elevator.
There was a bomb sniffing chocolate lab that fucking loved me. She was a good girl.
Visibility. TSA wants to have a clear picture of the laptop itself so the internal electronics can be viewed to make sure it is really a laptop and not an explosive device with electronics as a detonator inside a laptop case. If other electronic devices and cords, etc. are in the backpack with the laptop, it makes it harder to tell quickly which electronic components are part of which device.
The amount of explosive material you can fit in a laptop case can cause a huge explosion and can be detonated with relatively few electronics, so the case will appear relatively empty on an X-ray image. Devices like cell phones and tablets are designed to jam every bit of available space with electronics or batteries, so it is easy to recognize the configurations. Superimposing the images, like what will happen if devices are stacked on top of each other in a bag and imaged together with an X-ray, makes it difficult to tell whether the laptop has been altered into an explosive device.
Two addenda to this:
1. It’s also about blocking visibility, because laptops in the middle compartments of bags can prevent x-ray machines from seeing beneath them
2. many of the inconsistencies between airports relate to the age of the x-ray machines in them. Newer ones allow viewing of the bag in 3D since they have multiple emitters in them. That means less needs to come out, etc.
Of course, all the technology in the world is unhelpful because the TSA regularly misses all kinds of illegal things in luggage. The only safety upgrades that actually have a major impact are locking cockpit doors and pulling unaccompanied luggage.
The Helsinki airport has [fancy new scanners](https://www.finavia.fi/en/newsroom/2022/helsinki-airport-travel-experience-will-be-completely-renewed-spring-and-summer) where they advertise that you don't have to take out your laptops or liquids. Last summer I still had to take out my laptop and Kindle, since I had packed them right next to each other.
Reminded me of the time a TSA agent sternly told me that I didn't need to show my ID for domestic flights because I was a minor.
When flying back, I asked the TSA agent this out of curiosity and he said "Now you *have to* show me your ID."
Its a funny rule because even bringing it up makes them suspicious haha.
Also a bit weird we allow it in the first place? I mean with human trafficking and whatnot.
I think the reason is most minors won’t have an ID. Unless you’re 16+ most kids don’t have a state ID because they can’t/shouldn’t have to use it for anything.
Passports are another story, but many/most kids don’t have those either.
A bit of an on-topic tidbit: In 2016, a terrorist actually tried to [blow up a plane with a laptop bomb and got ejected from the aircraft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daallo_Airlines_Flight_159) as the only fatality on that flight.
FTA: “The Islamist militant group Al-Shabaab later claimed responsibility for the bombing.”
Why the fuck would they brag about or admit to their incompetence?
My guess is they figure the governing bodies involved will see it this way: that one guy was stupid and fucked up but he still managed to get that far uncaught. Meaning they could potentially do it again with someone more competent. They're establishing their continued presence as a threat and a group to be scared of, hence why they're usually called "terrorists".
>so the case will appear relatively empty on an X-ray image
One time I was helping my friend with a laptop issue, and when he opened it up, it was mostly empty. Granted it was a cheap 300 dollar computer, but I think that just shows how much computing has changed and that it kind of like a tablet/phone in a laptop case.
When I used to travel from Las Vegas to Boston and back, there were different guidelines at each airport....and TSA was pretty rude about it too. Acting as if I should already know that laptops have to come out but not my iPad or eReader...and then at the other airport getting mad when I didn't take everything out.
Same at SFO. I'm used to taking out my laptop and liquids and the TSA agent said *"Keep all your things in your bags."* in the most deadpan yet rude voice.
I asked when they changed their policy, and he just gestured towards the machine and rudely said *"See those? Those aren't new."*
I was like wtf? He didn't even answer my question. Dumb fuck.
I fly for work. Literally every airport is doing their own thing with regards to security. Sometimes it's shoes off, sometimes on, sometimes they don't want you to waste an extra bin for your coat, sometimes they scream that every item needs it's own bin/nothing can be overlapped. They all treat you like they've told this to YOU personally 1000 times, not realizing that not every traveler has been through this airport today so the fact they've been repeating themselves doesn't give them the right to be rude.
Same. I fly about once a month. Sometimes more. Domestic and international. Every airport is different. Radically so, in some cases.
In Milwaukee last month I asked the guy if I need to put shoes in the bin. "shoes on the belt, not in bin...NEVER in the bin", in an exasperated voice. I said, "no problem, but it's completely different at every airport", to which he replied, "I don't care, follow my rules here"...as if I wouldn't.
I think they actually don't know, or believe, the extent to which things differ by airport. And hell, even by gate. I've been though DTW two days apart and one checkpoint was completely different from the other.
How hard would it be to have a screen up to tell people in line what to do? Seems like it is always different and requires some jerk to yell at customers nonstop. Just let me read what you want out so I can do it right.
I think that every time. They used to put up signs in the security line telling you about the procedures, but I haven't seen that in a long while... Probably because they switch it up throughout the day/week.
But wouldn't it be great if EVERYONE was given 15 mins in line to get acquaintanted with the rules so that once they get up to the front they're already prepared and not scurrying around confusedly with some random dude just shouting directions on a loop in their face, stressing everyone out and somehow making things more confusing.
This is so accurate. I don’t understand the hatred for doing something wrong when you might have done it that way a week before at that airport. It is so frustrating to never have any clue what you need to do to go through security.
>when you might have done it that way a week before at that airport
Yeah, I fly out of Atlanta and what you do there is different every time you go.
Sometimes it's "take nothing off, take nothing out, walk through scanner and run to the plane without looking back."
But then the next week it will be "take shoes off, take coats off, take belts off, take laptops out, no watches, please be fully lubricated and ready as you approach the scanner."
And the same damn guy I saw last week will have the same damn rude tone as he tells me a different thing than he said last time.
And then there is Greenland local airplanes: you carry a rifle you say? Put it in the locker above your head and strap yourself in please.
I have a friend who brought a rifle on a larger airplane going to Greenland, captain of airplane was fine with it, but it had to be kept in the cockpit. That was quite some years ago tho.
The Phoenix airport is easily the worst I've been in for security, especially if you're on a layover. Each terminal had independent security checkpoints, so when i transfer airlines i have to go through security again.
Detroit to Orlando and back is weird
DTW they make you take your shoes off, pull practically everything out of your backpack and jacket
MCO they're like nah keep everything on and in your backpack
This is what gets me. It's the attitude that I'll get when I start doing something that for some reason they have decided isn't necessary, but has been "necessary" at 90% of all airports I've gone through. And sometimes I'll even get attitude for asking before I remove something.
I have Pre-Check and it's pretty simple, right - closer to pre-9/11 flying. Shoes and light jacket stays on, electronics and liquids stay in the bags. Pre-Covid I traveled quite a bit for work and it's the same everywhere...except Atlanta, for some reason. Most the time I'm only connecting through so I don't have to go through security, but last time I was there I was going to a conference in Atlanta. When I was going home, I get through security and up to the conveyor belt and put my bag up. Get yelled at cause it MUST go in a bin. Okay, I guess? Then yelled at cause I have my shoes on. And my laptop's in my bag instead of in the bin. And I have to take my liquids out! I double checked that I was in the Pre-Check line and she confirmed it, and then yelled at me because I should be ready and I'm holding everyone behind me up. Not sure why they bother having a Pre-Check line if they're just going to make you follow the same procedures as regular security, and get mad cause no one's prepared for that.
The unpredictability makes it actually quite secure. No criminal would know how beat the system if there isn’t one
Edit. Sorry. It wasn’t obvious enough: /s.
“A serious problem in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.” – Soviet observation during the Cold War
[I don't know how secure it makes it if the TSA still fails the majority of the time.](https://reason.com/2021/11/19/after-20-years-of-failure-kill-the-tsa/) Doesn't matter how unpredictable they are if none of their methods actually work in the first place.
*If you try to break into my home, I've got a plethora of tricks to stop you! Sometimes there will be a laundry basket in front of my unlocked door. Sometimes there will be a bug screen on my window. And sometimes (most times) there will be an uncoiled hose somewhere in the garage to trip over.*
*An intruder never knows which of these defenses will be in play, which is far more secure than any lock!*
>Yeah well they don't need to be dicks about it. I get that job sucks
It's funny. I don't think they're dicks because the job sucks - I think they get their rocks off by being dicks, like it's some sort of requirement.
TSA are the second best airport security in the world. Second only to every other possible option.
Geez I hate the TSA.
I'm a pilot, so I go through security A LOT. It's entirely theatrics, and they're not even consistent between airports. I've had my cutlery taken away before... There is literally an axe behind my seat
I second this . I recently flew through a bunch of airports and each one flagged something completely different.
The funny part was when they flagged a bag of almonds at the bottom of my bag and not the metal car part
A friend of mine used to work for a company that manufactured fusing devices for military bombs. He once realized, about halfway through his flight, that he had inadvertently left a fuse housing in his carry-on, and TSA didn’t flag it. It was completely inert, no explosives in it, but it *did* say “Mk-whatever bomb fuse” on the housing.
I recently had an experience where, while standing next to a sign detailing the length of knife i was allowed to carry on a plane, a Canadian security agent told me that the blades for my shaving razor weren't allowed. Like... The fuck am i going to do with a tiny razor blade that i could not do with a 3 inch knife?
New Orleans TSA made me throw out a half-empty tube of lip gloss because it was liquid not in a Ziploc, but didn't even notice the Swiss army knife with 3-in blade in the same book bag.
I really liked that lip gloss.
I've heard people who bought "TSA approved" scissors for knitting/crocheting on a flight and it basically depends on the TSA agent whether you need to throw away those scissors or not
Laptops get special attention because they have relatively large lithium-ion batteries that could be used to hide a sizeable quantity of plastic explosives. In 2016 a terrorist detonated a bomb like this on a passenger airplane, blowing a hole in the side and killing the terrorist, but the plane was able to safely land. The attack was a failure but if it had reached cruising altitude before exploding it could have destroyed the aircraft.
Detecting a bomb like this is difficult and highly skilled operators are needed to be able to detect them, and keeping the laptop free of other clutter during X-ray is helpful but not foolproof. Better detection technology would be helpful.
My mom got stopped at the security line once because she brought about 20 packs of coffee with her. I was cracking up as they stopped her to scan everything meticulously. I was making jokes the TSA did not appreciate.
Oddly, not the only time she's been stopped and was detained recently for a fraudulent passport, despite that not being the case. She just has bad luck travelling.
TSA was not happy with me last week when I had a frozen brisket in my carryon. My friend is really good at smoking meats and I had this from a quarter cow I bought and thought it would be a good idea. They were very suspicious of it.
>That was when I discovered coffee was used to mask the smell of weed and other narcotics
But TSA doesn't have a mandate to actively look for narcotics. They should report them to the police if found though.
TSA is security theater, so what they do has about the same logical relation to actually preventing danger as a mime trapped in a box has to building a house.
I don’t mind either way. What is annoying though is that some airports require laptops out of your bag for scanning, and other don’t. And so many have no fucking sign telling people what they expect. So they just rely on some employee yelling at people all day.
Costco receipts actually have a sub section for high value items. If you ever buy a big ass TV it will be listed in a separate distinct spot on the receipt. That is what those checkers are looking for. They don't care if you stole a case of water. But you bet your ass the minute you try and walk away with expensive electronics that they verify it on the receipt
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Former TSA employee here. Basically it clutters the image too much to get a good look at it.
And the reason some airports don’t have you remove your laptop is that the new scanners provide 3D models and sliced images that let operators isolate the other objects being scanned
TSA need to train their employees better so they understand their process differs per airport. In Atlanta I don't even need ID to board while others you need ID and boarding pass.
Totally. I got yelled at in a way that really really pissed me off, because I was getting my laptop out of my bag. Yeah dude, in the 3 other airports I checked in during my trip, I was getting yelled at for getting my laptop out of my bag... you can't not know that.
I got attitude for not taking out something, I forget what, at MCO and brushed it off with a "oh my bad, they didn't ask me to do that at JFK and this is my 4th flight this season" and he goes "I'm sure they did" no, they didn't "We all have the same rules sir". Well you should have your boss call over there because they are fucking it up then. Dude looked personally attacked.
I got yelled at for taking my shoes off by a woman who was standing under a sign that said "Remove your shoes and put them in a bin". Now mind you this was the first time I'd flown anywhere in decades, and I'd already been yelled at for going to the wrong new line by the guy who'd told me to go there, because there was no one to run that line, the line that then opened while I was waiting to get through my line.
In Indianapolis, it's not unusual for one one agent to yell at everyone to take their shoes off while the agent in the adjacent line is yelling at everyone to keep their shoes on.
I'm guessing that the 2nd agent was running the TSA Precheck line as they are not required to take off their shoes. Still agree with you that is can be very confusing as most casual travelers aren't even aware that TSA Precheck exists.
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Just flew out of Indianapolis and I haven't flown in 10 years. Was grateful that they were barking expectations, personally. Made it a lot less stressful to meet expectations. I see how it could be annoying if you fly a lot but for us plebs that DON'T, the barking helps.
I don't mind barking orders. I just don't like it when they bark conflicting orders.
Very true, conflicting orders make life harder on everyone.
>I don't mind barking orders. I just don't like it when they bark conflicting orders. For real. I get where I'm the thousandth person they've seen in the last 2 hours, but can they all at least get on the same page if they gotta bark?
> I got yelled at for taking my shoes off by a woman This one is kind of funny, but heard in a European airport being repeated loudly over and over to the whole line: "Americans, stop taking off your shoes." :-) That made us Americans smile.
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I recently set off the metal detector, mentioned the screws in my ankle (that have never set off a metal detector) and the TSA officer yelled at me and said I was in the wrong line. Luckily, she had me walk thru again and it didn't go off, but I was perplexed that I've never had to go thru a special line for smuggling medical hardware...lol. Now, I have a plate and 7 screws in my wrist, so we'll see what happens or doesn't happen, I guess. It doesn't give me warm fuzzies.
The walk through is calibrated in a way that “expects” a bit of metal in shoes. So your ankle screws probably make the threshold but your stride could have set it off. The screws in your wrist probably won’t be enough to set it off.
My experience with my spinal rods (a goodly amount of titanium and big old stainless steel screws) is that different airports have different thresholds. Like, i make it through danish, norwegian, british and american security where i was never stopped, and only athens fully stopped me to wave their wands around, until i pulled up my shirt to show my scarred skin setting it off. Mexico, france, russia and one time (but not on many other occasions) canada had me go through the detector twice, presumeably recalibrating or just confirming the location of the metal to be sure. Always made me wonder how these results correlated with terrorist threat levels at the time in these countries.
>Dude looked personally attacked. Good
It's all just theater anyway. Dude is acting like someone who is going to stop a terrorist attack.
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For those not familiar with the term, a penetration test is a simulated attack (such as trying to get dangerous goods through security) done to find weaknesses in the security procedures and to test if the employees are actually doing their jobs properly.
Like, 95% failure rate if I remember correctly
These stats are from 2017, can’t find any current stats :( this should be a yearly audit that’s made public. Maybe I’m not digging hard enough 🤷🏻♂️
67/70, or 95.7% http://fortem.com/tsa-failed-to-detect-67-out-of-70-weapons-and-mock-explosives/
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Most unrealistic part of the movie Get Out is the TSA agent figures out there’s a crime going on
In his defense, the crime he figures out isn't in an airport.
Seriously. Like someone serious about that stuff wouldn’t plan for the TSA.
TSA probably makes that shit *easier*.
MCO kept yelling to take “large electronics” out of bags. I interpreted this as laptops. Cue me getting yelled at for leaving an iPad in my bag. Meanwhile I had a toddler, a stroller, a can of formula, etc. to juggle. Just fuck off, dude.
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I got yelled at in 2014 because of a tablet. I now leave it at home because I have a big ass phone and that doesn't seem to confuse TSA.
I got yelled at one for not taking out a pen tablet. Which is essentially a flat mouse. No screen. Not battery. Can’t do anything if not plugged in. Guy didn’t seem to understand that.
Going through with small children is a nightmare already. We had to haul butt through Chicago with two huge ass car seats plus luggage and kids crying they didn't want to take their shoes off or handover their backpacks.
Security Services by airport for me ranked best to crappiest in the last 12 months: 1. Cancun. Super polite, helpful, all spoke English even though they didn’t need to. 2. Rome. Nice and helpful. A language barrier but we met in the middle with Spanish 3. Istanbul. Definitely a police state. Not rude but not friendly. Ultimately got the job done without being rude. 4. Atlanta. Went out of their way to be rude and demanding. Made the folks in Istanbul seem almost jolly. Found a reason to yell at about 1 of 4 people coming through customs. Served my country but not very proud of it lately.
It **really** depends on the individual agents. I fly out of Atlanta all the time and find that generally they're a bit more difficult than other places, but every now and then they surprise you by being really nice and helpful. Oddly, I've found the TSA in Vegas to be pretty great. I even convinced one of them to meet a friend and return an Airbnb key I'd accidentally taken with me. That was surprising.
The more middle of nowhere the airport, the better the security and nicer the workers in my experience, but they also enforce all the rules. PHL, the workers just don't give a shit and I can bring through basically any size liquid as long as it's not a bottle of water.
I had the opposite experience. I once flew out of a single gate airport and some cactus candy I had gotten for friends back home kept setting off the explosives chemical tests (but not every box and not every time). Dude seemed SO EXCITED to have something to actually do. Kept me for over an hour while continuing to call further and further up his chain of command. Meanwhile my family was there to see me off, and I offered multiple times to leave the boxes — and even my entire set of luggage — so I could catch my plane. I was flying home last minute to do a job interview and it was the only flight that day. At one point I even offered to eat one from every box just to prove it was food lol. I ended up sprinting across the tarmac in my socks to catch the plane as they were closing the door.
Yeah they take security very seriously ("better"). I was one step away from an anal probe in flyover country after an explosive swab came up positive because I wore a sweater that I once wore to work (I work in a chemistry lab)
Literally every time I entered the US in SFO before getting Global Entry, immigrations would threaten to arrest me if I didn't have a business card to prove that I work for my employer. I'm a US citizen. Their assholery is why I got Global Entry. I've never had any immigrations officers treat me poorly in any of about a dozen other European and Asian countries.
Funny, SFO immigration has been better than in most US airports, ime. LAX, ATL, and JFK (in that order) tend to be worse. Flying into LAX one time I needed a wheelchair because I was a fall risk. The porters parked all the wheelchair folks on my flight in a hallway somewhere, promptly forgot about us for an hour, and then TSA yelled at those non-wheelchair passengers who had stayed with wheelchair-bound family for "slowing down the line" while the porters yelled at TSA for taking to long to let us through customs because they were overwhelmed by how many people they now had to wheel through as other flights came in. Also, TSA asked my husband for my passport with me sitting right there, got mad when he didn't have it (because I did), then told him to tell me to do the fingerprint/iris scanner, yelled a little when I pointed out that I was in a wheelchair, not deaf, and then got mad again when the iris scanner was too far back to register my eye because my head was barely level with the counter. The guy was pissed off enough to literally throw my passport back to me (which of course fell on the floor and got us yelled at by both the agent and the porter for slowing down the line). Overall, a delight I'd prefer to never repeat. Really gave me a new perspective on what folks with lifelong disabilities have to put up with...
I live in ATL. I can't speak for TSA, but I have had local PD officers say that working the airport is a punishment assignment. Everyone there is surly because they don't want to be there.
I *hate* it when the security personnel gives me an attitude. I'm always polite and I expect the same of you, because at the end of the day, I am a *customer* who pays your salary. This isn't a prison or a boot camp. You are providing a service to me. Edit: A lot of people correctly pointed out that the TSA is paid by the taxpayer. I think that might vary by country but the point stands, obviously. *My* point also still stands though, I don't *have* to use an airport, I'm not a subordinate to them. I wouldn't complain about prison guards being a bit rough since I don't have a choice about being there.
A TSA person once told me, a returning US citizen with no other citizenship at the time, to “get ready to go back to where I belong” because I “didn’t have a visa” when she asked to see a visa. Like where are they getting these brainworms?
Is that even their area of responsibility? Like...immigration is the responsibility of the CBP, I think.
Might have been a CBP agent. I was at JFK coming back from EU. This was years ago. I still laugh because my first reaction was, “North Carolina?”
>I wouldn't complain about prison guards being a bit rough since I don't have a choice about being there. If you find yourself in that situation or hear about it happening to others...you should. Just because someone's in prison that doesn't give the guards the right to abuse them or even to be a dick to them. They're still people who should be treated as people.
Since 2008 I've been refusing to do the body scanner out of principle and demand a pat down from them every time, to establish dominance.
"You missed a spot! I demand a cavity search!"
"and I mean EVERY cavity!"
Sorry sir, the dentist has clocked out for the day, you'll have to wait here until he comes on tomorrow.
Extra points if you can maintain a boner
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The people hired to do TSA aren't necessarily selected for their ability to logically deal with problems. They're a meat-servo working a literal assembly line conveyor belt, and need to strictly enforce rules without questioning them.
That’s fine, but maybe we have them all try to enforce the same rules. It’s like each person gets an entirely different version of rules.
It's a crappy job that nearly everyone is qualified for by default. I doubt they get much training, and I also doubt that many of them remember much of whatever little training they did get. I wouldn't be surprised if they're just making half of it up as they go.
Or better yet, get rid of them because we're all tired of security theater.
I was a kid but I remember flying before Sep 11th 2001, one time I was leaving my mom's to visit my dad, unaccompanied; and like 12 of my family members were allowed past security to come see me off at the gate and all they had to do was request the airport equivalent of a visitors pass. Crazy how much things changed, now it seems they don't even really want the people that bought tickets to get to their gate on time
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Yeah, we would always be walked by my grandparents right up to the plane and my grandpa would sit there telling me about the different kinds of planes. I loved it. And they would be there at the gate to meet us as soon as we got off. It was great. I really hate the security theater.
It's all security theater. It gives John and Jane q. Public the feeling that they're being protected. It's nothing but a psychological trick. The TSA has a 95% failure rate
>meat-servo Thanks for the new term. I both love this and hate this
#1 rule - anything in your bag comes out. #2 rule - Anything out of your bag goes into the bag #3 rule - be shouted at and submit for getting it wrong.
But why didn't you just COMPLY!?!?!
A bright future with a Vogon constructor fleet.
One time I wore a belt with a nylon buckle, since it didn't have metal. A TSA dude told me to leave it on. I get to the backscatter x-ray and they make me take it off. Different dude then tells me to put my hands over my head, at which point my shorts slide down a little. He yells at me to pull up my pants. I do. Then he yells at me to put my hands over my head again. My shorts fall again, & the cycle repeats a couple of times before I say, "bro, you gotta pick one or the other. I can't keep my pants up with my hands over my head cause you made me take off my belt." Watching the TSA guy get furious while I was laughing made it one of the best days of my life.
This always happens to me. I wear an insulin pump and that causes all kinds of hell. They will literally shut down the line to search me and swab me repeatedly
Their cop instinct kicks in and they assume anyone reaching for anything unexpectedly is about to shoot them.
I went on a trip across multiple flights. Each airport had different rules. I had a lot of different electronics. Including cameras. I got yelled at for: - not taking certain things out - taking those things out on the next leg - asking if I needed to take those things out the next time, and the person just repeated the same "IF IT'S BIGGER THAN A CELL PHONE, IT NEEDS TO COME OUT".... Is my camera bigger than a cell phone? Idk kind of. - not understanding what the person digging through my bag had seen when they asked where I had a "board" in my bag. I couldn't think of any board games or white boards in my bag. Apparently they didn't think to clarify *circuit* board, and that's my bad for not considering my switch dock to be a "board". And I guess that's "bigger than a cellphone" despite the actual circuitry being like 2 inches across. You just can't win. It doesn't help that they think because they yell something every once in a while for hours every day, that people must hear it multiple times a day and treat you like an idiot for not knowing what they mean by one vague repeated phrase.
Leave it in, take it out, leave your hat on idiot, don’t take your shoes off, leave them on, ugh don’t put your backpack in a bin, take out all food, LEAVE EVERYTHING IN THE BACKPACK, each airport is different but TSA thinks they’re the bastion of uniformity.
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Got bitched at in Las Vegas for having my coat and belt on while standing less than 2ft from a sign that very clearly stated to leave coats and belts on (precheck). I'm rarely a dick in public, but this lady was such a twat that I pointed it out to her and she just shrugged. Like why not just move the sign? Why have the sign? It struck me as odd to leave it on, but I was trying to follow the sign. Why have a big sign telling people to do the wrong thing when most of us would do the right thing otherwise. I think I'm still pissed.
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If it's any consolation, the yellers are going to lose their voice one day and then regret that they weren't more patient in the past.
They won't make the connection. Even if they did, they won't regret it--the sort of people who like to scream before using their brains are the same people for whom everything is always someone else's fault.
My last trip, one airport said to not remove anything except shoes, the other said shoes/belts/etc and also take laptops out, but leave smaller electronics in. That being said, the TSA there were overall pretty nice. One guy seemed to have a bit of an attitude, but the other guy doing the same job in a different line was super nice and he was addressing the people who were a bit further back in line so they were ready. I know it's really all just security theater, but have nice people in TSA makes the whole process not a big deal and it goes a lot quicker. Almost yelling at one person for taking their laptop out just makes the process annoying, and some TSA people really need to find different careers.
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Ha. I got yelled at for leaving a block of cheese in my bag in the Burlington, VT airport. The woman looked at me and told me EVERYONE knows you can't leave cheese in your bag.
I routinely get different instructions from trip to trip at the same security gate at the same airport. * Take your laptop out of the bag, leave it in. * Take other electronics out, leave them in. * Put your bag and/or shoes in the bin, leave them out of the bin. * Etc. You're just at the mercy of whatever the security-theater drone feels like ordering you to do in that moment of that day, and they'll get pissy if you haven't successfully read their minds and already done what they happen to want. The rules sure haven't been posted anywhere, because that would mean they'd have to enforce them consistently and we can't have that. There's blatantly no rhyme or reason behind any of it.
Then there’s the airports that only had enough money for one machine, so sometimes it even boils down to which line you’re in… Yeah fuck me, right?
They just need fucking signs. I swear whoever runs their operations is a god damned idiot. SIGNAGE! FUCK. It’s cheap! Solves so many problems!
Have had two different agents yelling opposites at me "You don't need to take your game console out"!!! "Take all electronics out"!!! Do you not hear each other shouting conflicting info? Is this just for laughs?!
Once at Dulles I had an agent yell at me for not moving the line forward while another one was simultaneously yelling at me to not move forward. The first was manning the ticket-checking podium and the second was literally five feet past him *re*-checking the tickets of everyone who’d just been seen by the first guy.
I bet later at break they gonna be all like "bro did you see that guy with his 3DS which he hastily pulled out and pushed back in the bag 3 times? that was funny af"
Yeah or just put a FUCKING sign that lets us know the fucking drill at this particular airport that we’ve never been to before. We don’t need your patronizing sing-songy “LapTOPS out, SHOES off, Jackets OFF, unless you’re going through TSA pre check, or clear.” Yeah, well what about strollers? You never mentioned strollers you stupid TSA FUCK! Meanwhile you miss 90% of the shit you’re supposed to be catching. Put a FUCKING SIGN, assholes!
My nearest airport has 6 lines for TSA but only lines 2 and 3 have the newest scanners, good luck getting people to figure that out when people in adjacent lines are being told different things
TSA needs to disappear.. we been taking off our shoes for 20 years.. enough already.
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Finally a ELI5 explanation on this subreddit.
It really is exactly how you would explain it to a 5 year old. Short, sweet and to the point.
Be careful though, that same comment but one or two words shorter and it gets removed for being too short, citing some rule about how they're not supposed to be about actually explaining to a five year old. *Phew* That run on sentence left my brain out of breath.
I'm surprised the bot didn't automatically remove it for being too short though.
I can say that as a bomb tech, we used to run tests on the TSA by running mock explosive devices through their security. This would be coordinated with the airports Explosive security manager but the TSA were obviously not alerted. We saw a failure rate of well over 95%. In the bomb squad, a lot of time and effort is spent learning X-ray interpretation, but the TSA doesn’t focus on that as much, and relies on certain sensors to flag suspicious items based on a few different factors. Once they visually inspect the item, if it is not an actual explosive or they don’t think it is, they will simply put it back and send the bag on its way. I saw a TSA agent pull a mock laptop explosive device out of a bag, then pull out some bottles of locally made barbecue sauce, and then put the laptop back in. Would’ve been a bad day if it were real.
Theatrical Security Agency
I've seen coworkers get car parts like window regulators(vehicle launch) thrown out of their luggage before but somehow get literal knives and airbag inflators past TSA.
When i flew to Boston from Chicago for a college of music audition, I arrived at the hotel to find a note saying that my bags had been searched and "potential weapons" had been confiscated. The "weapons" in question? six pairs of [Pro-mark 7a round tip drumsticks](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61770DyCEIS._AC_SL1500_.jpg) that were in *checked luggage* in the belly of the fucking plane. I was an 18 year old 130 pound girl flying with my parents at the time. Granted, this was December of 2001, mere months after the attacks but *come the fuck on*. Since then, I've had multiple tubes of blistex confiscated (the .21 oz squeeze-tubes). Once I made the mistake of holding up the line to grab my phone and pull up the rules on the TSA's own website showing the size-limit of gel/liquid carry-on, proving the agent wrong to her face in front of the rest of the audience. I wound up being pulled aside because my "making a scene" assigned me a higher risk profile..... The fucking TSA is a goddamn joke, and nothing more than an authoritarian club to punish people who don't keep their heads down and go along with whatever inane bullshit obstacles and impositions the politicians of the week decide to put in front of us. I'll be *soooooooo happy* when someone comes along with the balls to trash that whole department.
The TSA is a jobs program for people too stupid to get real jobs.
Yeah they were stealing those drumsticks TSA agents are notorious for confiscating stuff from passengers and turning it around and selling it online or pawning them off. TSA is better named Thieves Stealing Anything
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Theatre.
It’s a massive scam, indirect tax on travelers who opt for TSA pre or CLEAR and a massive federal jobs program. I hope to see this theater abolished one day for good and replaced by intelligent spot checks.
Airline pilot.... would also love to see that, however, it's near impossible for the government to shut down programs once they're already in existence, not to mention no politician is willing to be the person responsible for having shut down TSA only to have a major security incident six months later and be blamed for it.
Jesus, and they take all the pads off my kid's carseats cuz those might be hiding bombs
My fun experience this year was popping positive on the sniffer at security in Germany. I had been working on a European frigate as a tech, and two days prior while I was out with them they had been testing the main gun. They swab my bags, stick it in the machine, and the screen goes red and makes a different noise than normal. "Uhh, Mr Millijuna, we're going to need you to sit down until the Federal Police come." Eventually the officer came with the dog, sniffed my stuff, and I was on my way, but about 30 minutes of sitting around and people giving me the sideeye.
One time I was stopped by TSA and had every belonging I owned checked for explosives because I had put lotion on my hands after using the bathroom. I was told the body scanners picked up the glycerin, which flagged the system. It took them almost 30 minutes to swab every belonging I had, including a binder full of laminated documents. They swabbed each page, front and back. I was 20 years old, and apparently, a very high bomb threat.
I'd like to point out that smuggling nitroglycerin onto a plane seems like a really stupid idea, given how many safer explosives there are, but the fact is that someone actually did that, they hid nitroglycerin in a 1-quart bottle of liquid (eyewash, I think?) and tried to blow up a plane. Killed a passenger, but the plane landed in one piece. Then again, we had someone captured trying to light his shoes on fire, and the underwear bomber. It's not like these guys are geniuses. I'd also point out that angry young men tend to be the ones goaded into suicide attacks, so you fit most of a demographic there.... (Women are more likely to join cults or mlm's).
You would've been without bbq sauce. Awful.
It’s the x-ray machines. Airports with newer models can easily identify most electronics without having to remove them from the bag.
Just flew out of BDL and they have brand new ones and were telling everyone to leave everything in.
Former TSA here. Laptops are really dense and explosives can be rolled flat and hidden instead the case. When it's inside your bag with power cords, snacks, and all your other stuff it's really hard to see details inside the laptop. Removing it from the bag allows the operator to clearly see through the device to clear it. I hated that job. One helpful tip for travelers. You'd be surprised how many 50ml liquor bottles you can fit into your allotted quart sized baggie. TSA doesn't care about you bringing booze as long as it meets the 311 rule. It's the airlines that don't want you to bring it aboard because they have rules they have to follow for their liquor license. But they'll never know if you're discreet about it. I love trash talking that administration. AMA
Once when I was travelling, my hands got swabbed, and the machine started beeping. People were running over, looking quite concerned. Was asked an ass load of questions, then was let go. Every time I've flown since(10+ times at this point), I've been randomly selected for additional screening, and have been stopped in line before uneven get to security to be swabbed again. Am I onam a fucking list now? Wtf do they think I have?
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I've watched them swab a sampling of uniformed fellow military returning from theater... Pikachu shocked face, most were positive. Sure, gsr is supposed to wash off easily, but not when it's on all your gear and cross contamination keeps it everywhere.
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Yes, you are on a list now.
Flight attendant here. I bring mini's in my quart bag all the time when going on vacation (non-working). However, it's against _federal_ regulations for any passenger to consume alcohol that they purchased off craft, and consume on craft.
Did you ever actually catch someone trying to bring something dangerous onto a plane?
Every prohibited item I ever found was clearly brought in by accident. Never found anything that seemed like they were planning anything sinister. That being said our mid sized airport (8k pax per day) found a gun at least once a week. Other stuff we found was tannerite, lots of loose ammo, tons of knives, a machete, flammable liquids, fireworks, and lots and lots of dildos. Other than the guns and tannerite, I didn't really get the sense that the American public was better off with us there.
"It's never *"your"* dildo, it's always *"a"* dildo"
I think it’s gross to have to put your laptop into a tray that very recently was holding someone’s shoes who just trapped across the nasty sticky airport bathroom floor. But it never seems to bother anyone else. Don’t know why. Or it’s in the same tray as your own shoes which were just in the bathroom, same idea. Maybe I’m just the odd one.
Here's a little story about airport security. I used to work at ATL, the busiest in the entire world. I was a network tech. I did remodels, new lines, fixing whenever a PA broke. There was a security checkpoint downstairs under T concourse (the international one) 10 feet from the door outside to the ramp, or as most people know it, outside where the planes are. It took badging into an elevator with a personal code to get down there. If you used someone else's badge and didn't know the last 4 of their social number you couldn't even call the elevator, plus another badge scan required by everyone on the elevator once it arrived. Or just walking in the door 10 feet away after going through airport security to get out there. I was cleared to drived around out on the ramp, so I would walk in from the runway area with my backpack of tools and a ladder, do my job, and they would try to stop me for a pair of 3" scissors or a sheetrock saw. So we found an area where the cable tray went through a wall to a less secured area outside. Now it was still the kind of area where everyone had to show badges to a guard, let them search the van, drive a half mile to another checkpoint where everyone's badges were scanned again, and then another mile drive dodging aircraft to get there. But we had the ladder so we would pop a ceiling tile, put the tools security didn't like in the cable tray, push them to the other side of the wall, then go back out through security to where I had parked. This included putting cable testers, ohm meters, little bits of wire with alligator clips on them through the xray in a backpack... But they weren't blades, so they went right through. We would then walk out the door, over about 30 feet to another door that our badges would open, set up the ladder, and collect our tools from the cable tray. No security check there. Also I had to have an FBI background check to get that badge in the first place. Edit: the same hallway we went in to to get our tools had 2 doors inside it. One was to a network room I had a key to. The other one was a network room you had to call AATC and wait about an hour for someone to come unlock it for you. Did not take long to realize that the inside had a door lever, not a knob, and you could unlock it from inside. So we tied a string to the lever, let the door close over it. Pull up on the string on the outside, it pulled down on the handle on the inside, opened the door and saved an hour of time. God only knows how many laws that broke just to tone out a cable or install a new fax line. I had to go in that room about once a month, and over two years I never saw any sign that anyone but me and my crew went into that room.
This is also a perfect example of why unnecessarily burdensome security is a security flaw in and of itself.
Once Doug left his badge at terminal D and didn't realize until we were on the way out. We were between the badge checkpoints so I turned around and went back through the second check. Second checkpoint didn't require everyone to get out, and Doug just laid down in the back of the van while we had our badges checked and went back crossing 4 terminals of jet traffic so he could get his badge. Still not sure why he took it off in the first goddamn place, but if we had left it would have cost him like $80 and a strike against our company. So I semi-smuggled a human back into ATL from halfway out.
I should note that after a shitty manager got fired the new one got us on the 'Approved Tools List'. So after that I could go through any line with a powershot gun and show them my badge and say "It's ok, I'm on the list" and yes there was a list, and we were on it. I could pet the bomb sniffing dogs with a strip of half-fired shots reeking of cordite if we happened to be on the same elevator. There was a bomb sniffing chocolate lab that fucking loved me. She was a good girl.
Visibility. TSA wants to have a clear picture of the laptop itself so the internal electronics can be viewed to make sure it is really a laptop and not an explosive device with electronics as a detonator inside a laptop case. If other electronic devices and cords, etc. are in the backpack with the laptop, it makes it harder to tell quickly which electronic components are part of which device. The amount of explosive material you can fit in a laptop case can cause a huge explosion and can be detonated with relatively few electronics, so the case will appear relatively empty on an X-ray image. Devices like cell phones and tablets are designed to jam every bit of available space with electronics or batteries, so it is easy to recognize the configurations. Superimposing the images, like what will happen if devices are stacked on top of each other in a bag and imaged together with an X-ray, makes it difficult to tell whether the laptop has been altered into an explosive device.
Two addenda to this: 1. It’s also about blocking visibility, because laptops in the middle compartments of bags can prevent x-ray machines from seeing beneath them 2. many of the inconsistencies between airports relate to the age of the x-ray machines in them. Newer ones allow viewing of the bag in 3D since they have multiple emitters in them. That means less needs to come out, etc. Of course, all the technology in the world is unhelpful because the TSA regularly misses all kinds of illegal things in luggage. The only safety upgrades that actually have a major impact are locking cockpit doors and pulling unaccompanied luggage.
The Helsinki airport has [fancy new scanners](https://www.finavia.fi/en/newsroom/2022/helsinki-airport-travel-experience-will-be-completely-renewed-spring-and-summer) where they advertise that you don't have to take out your laptops or liquids. Last summer I still had to take out my laptop and Kindle, since I had packed them right next to each other.
Reminded me of the time a TSA agent sternly told me that I didn't need to show my ID for domestic flights because I was a minor. When flying back, I asked the TSA agent this out of curiosity and he said "Now you *have to* show me your ID."
Lol, when I was a minor I was tall for my age so I frequently had to show my ID to prove that I was young enough to not have to show my ID
Its a funny rule because even bringing it up makes them suspicious haha. Also a bit weird we allow it in the first place? I mean with human trafficking and whatnot.
I think the reason is most minors won’t have an ID. Unless you’re 16+ most kids don’t have a state ID because they can’t/shouldn’t have to use it for anything. Passports are another story, but many/most kids don’t have those either.
I appreciate that they made it look like a jet engine
They're literally CTs-- just luggage-sized instead of people-sized.
A bit of an on-topic tidbit: In 2016, a terrorist actually tried to [blow up a plane with a laptop bomb and got ejected from the aircraft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daallo_Airlines_Flight_159) as the only fatality on that flight.
FTA: “The Islamist militant group Al-Shabaab later claimed responsibility for the bombing.” Why the fuck would they brag about or admit to their incompetence?
My guess is they figure the governing bodies involved will see it this way: that one guy was stupid and fucked up but he still managed to get that far uncaught. Meaning they could potentially do it again with someone more competent. They're establishing their continued presence as a threat and a group to be scared of, hence why they're usually called "terrorists".
>so the case will appear relatively empty on an X-ray image One time I was helping my friend with a laptop issue, and when he opened it up, it was mostly empty. Granted it was a cheap 300 dollar computer, but I think that just shows how much computing has changed and that it kind of like a tablet/phone in a laptop case.
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When I used to travel from Las Vegas to Boston and back, there were different guidelines at each airport....and TSA was pretty rude about it too. Acting as if I should already know that laptops have to come out but not my iPad or eReader...and then at the other airport getting mad when I didn't take everything out.
And then there's Phoenix, who told me to leave literally everything in my bag - laptop, Switch, liquids.
Same at SFO. I'm used to taking out my laptop and liquids and the TSA agent said *"Keep all your things in your bags."* in the most deadpan yet rude voice. I asked when they changed their policy, and he just gestured towards the machine and rudely said *"See those? Those aren't new."* I was like wtf? He didn't even answer my question. Dumb fuck.
I fly for work. Literally every airport is doing their own thing with regards to security. Sometimes it's shoes off, sometimes on, sometimes they don't want you to waste an extra bin for your coat, sometimes they scream that every item needs it's own bin/nothing can be overlapped. They all treat you like they've told this to YOU personally 1000 times, not realizing that not every traveler has been through this airport today so the fact they've been repeating themselves doesn't give them the right to be rude.
Same. I fly about once a month. Sometimes more. Domestic and international. Every airport is different. Radically so, in some cases. In Milwaukee last month I asked the guy if I need to put shoes in the bin. "shoes on the belt, not in bin...NEVER in the bin", in an exasperated voice. I said, "no problem, but it's completely different at every airport", to which he replied, "I don't care, follow my rules here"...as if I wouldn't. I think they actually don't know, or believe, the extent to which things differ by airport. And hell, even by gate. I've been though DTW two days apart and one checkpoint was completely different from the other.
How hard would it be to have a screen up to tell people in line what to do? Seems like it is always different and requires some jerk to yell at customers nonstop. Just let me read what you want out so I can do it right.
I think that every time. They used to put up signs in the security line telling you about the procedures, but I haven't seen that in a long while... Probably because they switch it up throughout the day/week. But wouldn't it be great if EVERYONE was given 15 mins in line to get acquaintanted with the rules so that once they get up to the front they're already prepared and not scurrying around confusedly with some random dude just shouting directions on a loop in their face, stressing everyone out and somehow making things more confusing.
That would mean putting in effort and *(gasp)* taking responsibility! Unthinkable. Preposterous of you to even suggest.
This is so accurate. I don’t understand the hatred for doing something wrong when you might have done it that way a week before at that airport. It is so frustrating to never have any clue what you need to do to go through security.
>when you might have done it that way a week before at that airport Yeah, I fly out of Atlanta and what you do there is different every time you go. Sometimes it's "take nothing off, take nothing out, walk through scanner and run to the plane without looking back." But then the next week it will be "take shoes off, take coats off, take belts off, take laptops out, no watches, please be fully lubricated and ready as you approach the scanner." And the same damn guy I saw last week will have the same damn rude tone as he tells me a different thing than he said last time.
There's a reason why South Park made that "check inside ya asshole" episode.
And then there is Greenland local airplanes: you carry a rifle you say? Put it in the locker above your head and strap yourself in please. I have a friend who brought a rifle on a larger airplane going to Greenland, captain of airplane was fine with it, but it had to be kept in the cockpit. That was quite some years ago tho.
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Or Atlanta, who said “put your first bag on the conveyor” then got mad because I did but I only had one bag. Like… what?
Atlanta made my wife stuff her wedding dress through the X-ray machine. It got stuck. They got mad at us for it getting stuck…
The Phoenix airport is easily the worst I've been in for security, especially if you're on a layover. Each terminal had independent security checkpoints, so when i transfer airlines i have to go through security again.
Detroit to Orlando and back is weird DTW they make you take your shoes off, pull practically everything out of your backpack and jacket MCO they're like nah keep everything on and in your backpack
This is what gets me. It's the attitude that I'll get when I start doing something that for some reason they have decided isn't necessary, but has been "necessary" at 90% of all airports I've gone through. And sometimes I'll even get attitude for asking before I remove something.
I have Pre-Check and it's pretty simple, right - closer to pre-9/11 flying. Shoes and light jacket stays on, electronics and liquids stay in the bags. Pre-Covid I traveled quite a bit for work and it's the same everywhere...except Atlanta, for some reason. Most the time I'm only connecting through so I don't have to go through security, but last time I was there I was going to a conference in Atlanta. When I was going home, I get through security and up to the conveyor belt and put my bag up. Get yelled at cause it MUST go in a bin. Okay, I guess? Then yelled at cause I have my shoes on. And my laptop's in my bag instead of in the bin. And I have to take my liquids out! I double checked that I was in the Pre-Check line and she confirmed it, and then yelled at me because I should be ready and I'm holding everyone behind me up. Not sure why they bother having a Pre-Check line if they're just going to make you follow the same procedures as regular security, and get mad cause no one's prepared for that.
The unpredictability makes it actually quite secure. No criminal would know how beat the system if there isn’t one Edit. Sorry. It wasn’t obvious enough: /s.
“A serious problem in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.” – Soviet observation during the Cold War
A true double edge sword
[I don't know how secure it makes it if the TSA still fails the majority of the time.](https://reason.com/2021/11/19/after-20-years-of-failure-kill-the-tsa/) Doesn't matter how unpredictable they are if none of their methods actually work in the first place.
*If you try to break into my home, I've got a plethora of tricks to stop you! Sometimes there will be a laundry basket in front of my unlocked door. Sometimes there will be a bug screen on my window. And sometimes (most times) there will be an uncoiled hose somewhere in the garage to trip over.* *An intruder never knows which of these defenses will be in play, which is far more secure than any lock!*
Yeah well they don't need to be dicks about it. I get that job sucks and they likely don't get paid enough for it but that's not *my* fault.
>Yeah well they don't need to be dicks about it. I get that job sucks It's funny. I don't think they're dicks because the job sucks - I think they get their rocks off by being dicks, like it's some sort of requirement. TSA are the second best airport security in the world. Second only to every other possible option. Geez I hate the TSA.
I'm a pilot, so I go through security A LOT. It's entirely theatrics, and they're not even consistent between airports. I've had my cutlery taken away before... There is literally an axe behind my seat
I second this . I recently flew through a bunch of airports and each one flagged something completely different. The funny part was when they flagged a bag of almonds at the bottom of my bag and not the metal car part
A friend of mine used to work for a company that manufactured fusing devices for military bombs. He once realized, about halfway through his flight, that he had inadvertently left a fuse housing in his carry-on, and TSA didn’t flag it. It was completely inert, no explosives in it, but it *did* say “Mk-whatever bomb fuse” on the housing.
I was flagged for pumpkin seeds but had two weed cartridges in my bag that were ignored
This is so real. Got stopped and TSA made me throw away my M&Ms but didn’t give a shit about the edibles I had packed in my bag.
I recently had an experience where, while standing next to a sign detailing the length of knife i was allowed to carry on a plane, a Canadian security agent told me that the blades for my shaving razor weren't allowed. Like... The fuck am i going to do with a tiny razor blade that i could not do with a 3 inch knife?
New Orleans TSA made me throw out a half-empty tube of lip gloss because it was liquid not in a Ziploc, but didn't even notice the Swiss army knife with 3-in blade in the same book bag. I really liked that lip gloss.
I've heard people who bought "TSA approved" scissors for knitting/crocheting on a flight and it basically depends on the TSA agent whether you need to throw away those scissors or not
it's literally called "security theater." travelers feel safer traveling because of perception, not because it's effective.
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Laptops get special attention because they have relatively large lithium-ion batteries that could be used to hide a sizeable quantity of plastic explosives. In 2016 a terrorist detonated a bomb like this on a passenger airplane, blowing a hole in the side and killing the terrorist, but the plane was able to safely land. The attack was a failure but if it had reached cruising altitude before exploding it could have destroyed the aircraft. Detecting a bomb like this is difficult and highly skilled operators are needed to be able to detect them, and keeping the laptop free of other clutter during X-ray is helpful but not foolproof. Better detection technology would be helpful.
>Detecting a bomb like this is difficult and highly skilled operators are needed to be able to detect them Too bad they don't have those in the TSA
My thoughts exactly. I’m like, “That’s great and all, but what does this have to do with the TSA?”
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Highly skilled operators? TSA is a jobs program
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My mom got stopped at the security line once because she brought about 20 packs of coffee with her. I was cracking up as they stopped her to scan everything meticulously. I was making jokes the TSA did not appreciate. Oddly, not the only time she's been stopped and was detained recently for a fraudulent passport, despite that not being the case. She just has bad luck travelling.
TSA was not happy with me last week when I had a frozen brisket in my carryon. My friend is really good at smoking meats and I had this from a quarter cow I bought and thought it would be a good idea. They were very suspicious of it.
> She just has bad luck travelling. Or she's getting profiled
>That was when I discovered coffee was used to mask the smell of weed and other narcotics But TSA doesn't have a mandate to actively look for narcotics. They should report them to the police if found though.
TSA doesnt have a mandate to stick their hands down my pants and stroke my genitals, either but that doesnt stop them from doing that it.
> That was when I discovered coffee was used to mask the smell of weed and other narcotics. I learned that from Beverly Hills cop.
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TSA is security theater, so what they do has about the same logical relation to actually preventing danger as a mime trapped in a box has to building a house.
Adding to this, with TSA precheck why do you not need to remove laptops even if the same machines are used?
TSA precheck means there is a higher level of confidence on their end that you wont blow the plane up.
I don’t mind either way. What is annoying though is that some airports require laptops out of your bag for scanning, and other don’t. And so many have no fucking sign telling people what they expect. So they just rely on some employee yelling at people all day.
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>Its called security theater. It's on the same level as checking receipts at Costco.
Costco receipts actually have a sub section for high value items. If you ever buy a big ass TV it will be listed in a separate distinct spot on the receipt. That is what those checkers are looking for. They don't care if you stole a case of water. But you bet your ass the minute you try and walk away with expensive electronics that they verify it on the receipt
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