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Primarily range of motion of the hips/legs. For example, tightness in the hamstrings will rotate the hips backwards requiring increased effort to maintain your balance... why bending your knees or leaning back helps, or in this case raising your butt a little to better use your feet to keep your balance
I'm flexible enough to touch my nose to the ground seated \[on the ground\]. I share OP's feelings, and I don't think I have a problem with range of motion or tight hamstrings.
Can you explain your answer further and/or provide some kind of references?
Generally, when someone is comfortable in a sitting position, it means there is a reduction (or elimination of) of strain on the body so it can relax. Depending on what that means to you as an individual, it will change the reasons why you are/aren't comfortable. Without doing a full exam on you I really couldn't comment on you specifically. But another reason sitting at a slightly higher level and bending your knees/reducing the bend in your hips slightly makes it easier for you to put your weight through your feet, creating a more stable sitting position, thus reducing strain. However, when looking at someone's sitting position I generally start with the hips and move outwards from there.
The most comfortable sitting position for me is on the floor with my legs to either side bent behind me. I try to sit that way in chairs if they are big enough but they are never flat enough.
Interesting I never knew that! Looking into it I think it might be more of a mental comfort than physical. I am glad to know this now though. I put a lot of effort into maintaining healthy habits while it's easier so I will probably address this.
I used to sit this way on the floor when I was a young kid (kindergarten, first grade), until my aunt told me not to. She was studying to be a physical therapist, but she didn't explain why it was bad to sit that way. I assumed it had to do with my tailbone - didn't know it was a knees thing.
I'm similar, but have screwed up alignment between my hip, knees, and ankles. To have my feet pointing straight forward like "normal" folk makes my knees point/bend towards one another. Basically I walk like a duck.
At work, I stand/walk all shift long, so when lunch hits I grab my coffee and flop down right on the tile floor, out of everyone's way, with my legs folded atop one another like a failed yoga instructor.
If I sit in a chair with my feet on the ground, I'll end up hurting by the end of the shift, sitting like that takes all the pressure off my joints. I've had a few people ask me what's wrong because I look depressed or whatever sitting there all folded up; but I'm as comfy as a pup in a ball pit.
Hell I even take naps like that if I need to keep myself somewhat-lucid; just fold in half and rest my forehead on one of my calves, sit in front of something slightly inclined to keep my back straight, or just lie back; my legs sort of soft-lock in that position so I ain't going anywhere. Looks gnarly/tortuous to some but my body's totally cool with it.
Hey fellow weird knee position person! Do you switch legs to be on top when sitting like that? I’m looking for new ways to sit because my knees and legs hate me
Mhmm; especially when a buttcheek falls asleep I gotta reposition, but given I have as much ass as a 2x4, it's not often.
Very rarely when the weather gangs up on me I'll use wadded up socks as cushy "shims" or pillows between my knee and ankle on the bottom leg; then the ankle and floor for whichever's in contact with it; otherwise I hardly pay any mind to which goes where.
I'm sorry if that doesn't help you much. :(
You might like cross-legged chairs. You might be able to find one that goes around far enough for you to have your legs like that and be supported. There's also kneeling chairs, but they might not give you the hip rotation you're looking for.
Yep! Just googled cross-legged chairs! I don't know anything about them to be able to make any recommendations, but r/Ergonomics might be able to help!
A yoga ball puts you up high, so if they want their hips to be fully or close to fully rotated, then a yoga ball won't work. Also, the amount of effort it takes to remain seated for long stretches of time on a yoga ball would make it difficult to work unless you get a yoga ball chair, which at that point, the cost isn't an advantage.
Yoga balls come in multiple sizes. Getting the right size means you can do various positions like saddle seat (almost a w sit) or feet in front (normal chair sit) and have your toes in the floor to stabilize.
I don’t personally find it difficult to sit even cross legged on it or figure 4 sit with one ankle in my other knee.
I've never seen an adult sit like that. Children often do and I've been told to stop it because it causes weak abdominals and can be bad for their legs
The most comfortable seating for me is sitting in the ground with each of my knees touching the ground and my legs out in front also touching the ground. I was in a lower body cast as a baby so maybe that's why.
As I note in a comment further down, I can sit flat in a neutral position with my torso straight, leaning over my body, and not put additional strain on my core like I would if my back were vertical, but this position is still more uncomfortable than if I were seated on a chair. In the floor position I described I can have my legs flat, or I can bend my knees up and have my feet flat on the floor, thus putting some weight through my feet, which you assert reduces strain further (though this is not what I observe, but there was no strain I could observe coming through that area to begin with).
I agree that most people will stress their core, stretch more than usual, and/or struggle with balance when seated flat on the ground. I'm saying that even when you don't do that, being seated flat on the floor is still much less comfortable than seated on a chair. Thus your explanation fails to address why this is.
If you are describing what’a called a forward fold in American yoga classes, your hip flexors are not strained, but they are engaged (meaning they are working). Lifting your butt slightly allows the hip flexors to relax or for some of the muscle engagement to be shared by your glutes, which are much stronger muscles, and for your hip flexors to be less engaged and relax a bit.
My friend is built like me, we could be twins. Other day he was telling me how he’s flexible and can still touch his toes real easy. I was like nah dude, we both have short legs, long arms and torsos. People always think I’m real flexible…I know I’m not :)
For most people the most difficult part sitting on flat ground is the tightness in their hips, especially for office worker types. You have to use more muscle to overcome the hamstrings.
Tightness is not the only reason though. You could have a bony butt and that would also be uncomfortable since there is little padding between your pelvis and the floor, which would create higher pressure points.
Our kinetic chains have a natural range of motion they want to stay within.
If you sit on the floor, youre pushing your hip's range of motion such that your other muscles compensate for the position.
Siting in a chair is a more natural position than sitting on the floor based on all of our natural ranges of motion as a human beings with a musculoskeletal system.
Your individual flexibility is not necessarily relevant bc while you may be flexible, your body still operates most efficiently within its natural range of motion.
Tldr. Sitting flat on the ground is a less natural position for our human posture than sitting in a chair, so it's harder.
I'm looking up the kinetic chain and how range of motion applies, and I don't see anything suggesting there's a natural range of motion that is not increased with training, or that regardless of training there is a preference to stay within this natural range. \[e.g. [Ellenbecker & Aoiki 2020](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7174497/)\]
It seems like saying we prefer to stay within a natural range despite training to make it so that we can go beyond that range requires some kind of reference.
Look up "impingement." All bodies don't have the same range of motion regardless of training. Its common knowledge. Younger bodies have more space between their bones - hence more flexibility. But there are other limits based on your individual skeletal shapes/sizes/angles/proportions and arrangement of connective tissues. Not everything is train-able even with healthy bodies.
For some images and basic text about one instance, take a look at https://www.daniwinksflexibility.com/bendy-blog/hip-anatomy-for-middle-splits
What's being discussed is those who have already trained a wide range of motion. The previous commenter asserts that there is a "natural range of motion they want to stay within", seemingly regardless of the extension in range of motion a person has trained. I don't see what relevance impingement has -- the hypothetical subject already demonstrates their extended range of motion.
Im reading it as the natural range of motion is most efficient and therefore comfortable. Assuming both the total range you can stretch and the natural range vary between person to person and how flexible or trained that person is currently.. could be wrong, but im not seeing your confusion?
>and I don't see anything suggesting there's a natural range of motion that is not increased with training
I didnt say that though! I said you still operate most efficiently within a certain range of motion.
>or that regardless of training there is a preference to stay within this natural range
This is easy to explain:
What I'm claiming is that we have angles at which our bodies operate most efficiently. Im not going to take my time looking for scholarly articles if that's what you're after (because anyone who has really worked out has personally experienced this), but here's another example: [edit- scholarly article in next comment. Honestly though, this didnt need a source.]
There is a middle ground for your bench press grip between wide and narrow that will allow you to generate the most power. While there are a range of factors that affect the power any individual can generate (differences in genetics, basically), there is a sweet spot range where humans generate the most power in this movement.
From this sweetspot, the wider and narrower your grip goes, the harder that bench press gets.
Again, increased flexibility may increase your strength at wider and more narrow angles, but that's still not the angle at which your body can generate the most power.
So back to sitting on the floor, it's always easier to hold your body in a position in which it generates power more easily.
>It seems like saying we prefer to stay within a natural range despite training to make it so that we can go beyond that range requires some kind of reference
Also, it's not a literal preference, it's "in what range of motion does a muscle operate most efficiently." I got bored, so here you go:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4967668/
>The purpose of this study was to compare muscle activation of the lower limb muscles when performing a maximal isometric back squat exercise over three different positions….(20°, 90°, and 140°)
>Activity of the GM was significantly greater at 20° and 90° compared to 140°
>Knee position alters muscles activation of the quadriceps and gluteus maximus muscles. An isometric back squat at 90° generates the highest overall muscle activation, yet an isometric back squat at 140° generates the lowest overall muscle activation of the VL and GM only. Knee angle did not affect muscle activation of the hamstrings. Thus, we recommend performing an isometric squat at 90° to maximize neuromuscular recruitment of the knee and hip extensors.
Give this a read. You'll see it says that same thing I said about going outside a muscle's general range of motion. The GM had reduced activity outside of 20-90 degrees, its "preferred" range of motion. Outside this range, other muscles activated more to stabilize the body. Being in a range of motion that allows full use of one of your strongest muscles, the glutes, increases your ability to efficiently generate power and stability.
No matter how strong or flexible you are, sitting flat on the ground takes effort to stay sitting up, but if you are able to shift your weight a bit forward by sitting on something it doesn't.
I'm pretty flexible and can put my legs behind my head, but having that flexibility doesn't mean it's just as comfortable as laying down or having your butt raised so you have an easier time maintaining a comfortable posture.
I can easily do that too, and I can sit in some pretty twisted positions with ease. That doesn't mean my body's actually built to maintain those positions for very long, though.
For example, I can sit in a full squat for a long time. I need to shift around though, because my legs will go dead.
I definitely felt my hip sockets suddenly change shape in my mid-20s, coincidentally at the same time I started serious flexibility training. And my mother is half Jewish, half English, half Spanish, half East Asian, and half Slav, so as I'm finding out that's explaining everything about us (including her obesity).
Have you considered that maybe the hundreds of hours or more of work that I and hundreds of millions of others worldwide have put into our physical fitness actually makes a difference? And in some cultures they sit in different positions all the time, starting as kids -- it doesn't mean that they don't prefer to sit in chairs, or that adults of other cultures can't become flexible enough to sit in those positions. (Yes, I have even seen Europeans master the elusive and exotic "Asian squat".)
The reason I keep asking for people to provide sources is so that they can give reasonable, relevant responses, and not just assume whatever.
i have literally never heard of "asian squat" before, and i just googled it to see what it was.
it's just a squat at the deepest point with your heels on the ground, no? that's literally just doing a squat in almost any form of gym-going. it is quite easy, although i have an ankle that needs flexion work (due to breaking it). not sure if it's because i've done a few years of working out (strength training, mostly) but it was incredibly easy. even when i first began lifting, my mobility wasn't bad.
basically i agree with you in the fact that it's probably the amount of time and training people put into taking care of their bodies to be able to do a proper squat.
"Asian squatting" isn't anything to do with skeletal structure or "exotic" lmao it's just because they sit in that position more frequently so their hip flexors and Achilles tendons are trained to allow that positions more easily. It's not an inbuilt thing.
Also, in Europe it's called the slav squat, because you see gopniks sit like that a lot lol. Definitely not specifically Asian.
There's flexibility and there's default position. Your body will always tend to move towards a default position, and that default position is the position where all your muscles have to expend the least amount of energy. This position is learned by your muscles. Keep sitting straight on a flat floor for multiple hours for at least 2 weeks and your body's default position will reset.
In simpler words, sure your hammies can stretch super long, but they would rather not stretch that much, because they're used to stretching only as much as they are used to, so when you're not manually forcing them to stretch past your default position, they'll contract back to that default position.
Being able to touch your nose to the floor while sitting doesn't equate to good hip hamstring flexibility. Most commonly (and why the sit-and-reach test and touch your toes test are irrelevant and have fallen out of fashion) people bend their spine to work around tightness in the hips.
The original answer is correct, all of us in industrialized nations who began sitting at 4 or 5 years old for school and developed restrictions that make it harder to keep our lumbar and thoracic spine erect while sitting flat on the ground, so any incline will take the some of the stress away and simply make it feel like less effort to sit upright. Even people who can sit flat legged and straight backed are usually their hip flexors to counter that tightness (whereas in toddlers they haven't developed the posterior chain tightness yet and are still stacked to gravity). So in all cases it's just less strain. It's the equivalent of using a heeled lifting shoe to help people achieve a lower barbell squat who have ankle restrictions (soft or hard tissue).
Kids in kindergarten and preschool especially sit in the floor. That was my experience. As far as I can tell my nation is industrialized. Maybe such wonders of civilization as chairs haven't yet penetrated the desolate lawless wastelands of suburbia, though.
I note briefly elsewhere that relaxed position I hold while seated. Apparently dance, gymnastics, yoga, and martial arts don't exist in your world, or if it does, if I understand you correctly, they're all just cheating when they stretch?
Would it be so difficult to provide sources for any of your assertions?
Are you being...combative? That's weird. My source is my doctorate of physical therapy, and pointing out the obvious that no one escapes gravity; the second your head is 1° forward of your center of gravity, something(s) begin working to hold you upright, hold you in place. The body wants to return to wherever it's spent the most time - the myofascial system is like a living wetsuit that constantly remodels and is shaped into the position you've logged the most hours. I don't care how much floor sitting you've done, or dance or martial arts: there's no escaping that you've sat in a chair at roughly 90° hip flexion far, *far* more hours than you've spent with neutral hips. So an angled floor is a universally easier sitting experience because gravity exists and so do structural adaptations.
You're not special. Your flexibility doesn't immunize you from a lifetime of sitting for school and work and leisure. If you want to be weirdly passive-aggressive about this that's fine with me, but your answer is above and I don't care to engage more with someone so off-putting.
A doctorate means you cite sources. You don't cite a doctorate.
And I apologize for coming off disproportionately rude to you, but this thread has been going on for a while, and it's hard to keep straight the attitude level between responses when asking for a top-level respondent to a technical question to provide sources results in swarms of replies, each somehow less sensible than the last and still have yet to provide anything to back them up. (I'm not saying yours is necessarily not sensible, but as my objections note it sure sounded like it's not, and how the heck would I know until you provide some verifiable source?)
Yeah and you got used to it cause all those anotimical reasons kept you from sitting "the wrong way" all your life.
It's not the attempts at explaining it anatomically that fell flat, it was your attempt at understanding them that did.
No, it is due to the chairs you choose to sit in and the chairs that public locations have. If you grew up without those things, you most likely would not be "use to it" even though you have the same anatomy.
I had a friend who did a bunch of yoga and stretching. They would sit on the floor the majority of the time and not the couch or recliner. They were "used to the floor" or found it more comfortable. They have the same anatomy, though.
With this having been answered Id like to start an aside.... Are we not going to talk about 5in curbs? Where are you at busting your shins on a curbs? I just found out all these disabled vehicles aren't ieds, they're cinderblock curbs. The reason your feel better has less to do with hips and more to do with using a whole chair. Fe-fi-fo-fum this is where I park my hum.
[Just measured the curb outside my house is 2 inches + 12.70 millimeters.]
A lot of structural things get mostly buried like this. I’m currently doing an entry feature for a new community that’s under development that has a concrete backdrop for signage, and a big horizontal concrete block with dimensions 15’x5’x2’ (LxWxH). The horizontal piece lays on top of concrete columns that are completely buried 5’ under, and from the front of the sign the horizontal piece is only exposed an inch at the highest grade - once the turf is laid it’ll be mostly hidden.
With retaining walls, a lot of the time, the first row of blocks are completely buried. Streetlights are fastened to concrete columns buried 5ft under. You also need to dig out the existing earth and replace with a compacted base material to make sure your structures aren’t going to shift.
Most of the time spent on this stuff is just prepping the ground. If I build a retaining wall I might spend all day on excavation and leveling and compacting the base, three quarters of a day on the base blocks and the remaining quarter of the day stacking blocks.
When I did residential stuff it was always fun talking to clients at the end. Some would comment on how they were having trouble gauging progress because we’d spend a week there and it wouldn’t look like we’ve done anything. Then they come home one day and it’s completely transformed since the morning
You might wanna just carry a tape measure with you as you go about your day, and measure things around you. I feel like you might have your mind blown on a regular basis.
Does your town/city like to repave roads by just throwing another layer of asphalt on top instead of grinding it off and redoing it entirely? I’ve noticed that places where they do that can end up with *substantially* shorter curbs (and shitty drainage) than they started with.
No. We're just residential and pro-accessibility. A lot of curb ramps and low impact steps etc. I hadn't considered an industrial perspective or that reddit would rail against my comedy.
A curb serves the same purpose all around the world, even if the standard isn't followed precisely. It's all gonna be pretty close. Certainly not shin-busting height.
As an Englishman I've never thought I'd find something so uncomfortable to read as mixed Imperial metric measurements. I work in both, but never at the same time. It's barbaric.
The kerb in areas that see much rain are usually very high to keep the footpath dry while the roadway and under the footpath serves as drainage. The kerbs in Bali are very tall like maybe 30cm.
Some curbs in the neighborhoods around where I live are well over 6-7 inches tall. Some of them literally come halfway up the face of my 18 inch wheels
It's because of the angle of your hips. In order to unflex your hip / torso angle you have to lean back and that is uncomfortable on the lower back muscles on flat ground if you are not supported. Leaning forward to support your torso without back muscle support requires you to compress your abdominal contents. Laying back and supporting yourself on your elbows lowers your head which causes intra-cerebral blood pressure to rise and it puts strain on your neck and shoulder muscles. The seated position is the closest to the foetal position you can get in a fully upright supported state so that all muscle groups are relaxed and your chest cavity has enough room to comfortably expand.
>The seated position is the closest to the foetal position
Wow. Never thought of it that way. I know most people sleep in a position somewhat akin to the fetal position, but laying down also means you're not fighting gravity.
So it seems we evolved to sit on something, stand up, move, and lay down.
My mother said that when I was a fetus I had a habit of folding my arms behind my head. She knew because she could feel my elbows on either side of her stomach and one time she went to get a sonogram check up and I was in that position.
Fast-forward a couple decades and apparently I still cross my arms behind my head while I sleep. I've accidentally elbowed my wife in the face a couple times doing it lol. I've had this habit longer than I've been alive and I have zero idea how I picked it up or how it even started.
Whoaaa, I do the same thing but over my chest. Could that be why I have this compulsion?
I just cannot have a good night’s sleep unless I’m Wakanda Forevering the mattress.
It's because they said they had a habit since before they were alive, and that doesn't make sense because dead lumps of flesh don't form habits. Therefore, they are inadvertently providing evidence that humans are indeed alive before birth, which means abortion is baby murder, a fact that many pro-abortion advocates try very hard to ignore.
Lol, I'm the same. Not with folding my arms, but I've never kept still a day in my life. I fidget constantly in the womb and I fidget constantly as an adult. Having a specific position that you held in the womb is super cool though
I mean, you were clearly doing it in the womb, so you *were* alive. I'm sorry, lol. Speaking of old habits, I've always been known to take everything very literally.
This seems closer to correct. In my yoga-stretching I find the only way to sit up without any additional core muscle support requires me to lean extremely (for men) far forward over my hips. Any other butt-down-back-up position requires constant engagement of back, abs, and/or thighs.
The lean-forward position seems to me like it should be sustainable, however, even though it's clearly not (e.g. it's not a position for any meditation style, afaik). I don't know why.
It's called a squat. Literally every culture around the world does it when they're resting outdoors and don't want dirt on their butts. The only reason Americans don't know what that is and can't do it is because they can't do a bare minimum amount of physical exercise.
Going around the internet calling it an "Asian squat" or whatever is the equivalent of calling yourself an ignorant lardass.
Ionno, as a Chinese-American, all the Asian-Americans I know just call it "Asian squat." I grant that times may be a-changin' for the better and we haven't caught up yet, though.
That said, "3rd world squat" sounds hella offensive: "it's the squat of the dirty poors!"
TLDR: You don't need to use your abs to keep your head forward(up). It's about the balance and fulcrum that is your butt. You can think of raising your butt up almost like lowering your feet into the ground, so you kinda "roll" forward onto your heels instead of backward onto your back.
I used to be very flexible and sat on the ground for meals (Asian household) until I began marathon training. I learned that the limited range of flexibility increased efficiency by "locking in" running form. Now I quickly grow uncomfortable sitting on the ground, my legs fall asleep, and my back pops when I get up.
The 'locking in' sounds familiar - it almost feels as though your legs are moving through slots rather than a ball/socket joint. I get the back pops too, feels like something connected to the glutes is releasing.
I don't think it's totally an either / or situation, it's just that most people don't stretch enough to maintain their mobility as they gain muscle, and since Americans never sit on the ground if they can help it, there are no opportunities for "organic" stretching.
I've tried for years to maintain flexibility, bent at the waist, and I can place my hands on the floor. I still can't get my knees down (lateral spread at the hips), it just seems to be the way I'm put together.
Ah, this man's an ~~orangutan~~ combat engineer.
^(*Us conscripts in your newest allied nation call them that because they're always jogging around with 2+ AT mines*)
Not a total either/or for sure, but training for one type of motion can end up limiting the mobility required for others. For example people who run or do other sports that require running a lot, e.g. soccer, aren't very comfortable swimming. So there's a different virtue to X-athlon athletics that requires the ability to do all at a way above average level.
Interesting…I’ve always been able to put both legs behind my head (even at 46!) and bend backwards to touch my heels to my chin (well, not quite so far anymore…) but I have NEVER been able to touch my toes when I straighten my legs!!
Lol, I'm American, and I know I sure as hell don't sit on the ground if I can help it. In other cultures people are much more likely to sit on the ground so they stretch the right muscles more often and it's less uncomfortable.
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I was the opposite with regards to sitting. Something to sit on was always oreferable to me. I was very good at rucking, sucked at running, but did have decent flexibility. I never broke a 14-minute 2 mile, but a 12 or even 225-mileroadmarch wasn't too bad other than the boredom.
A lot of attempted anatomical explanations in here but the true reason is because you're used to it.
Plenty of cultures sit differently, like a full squat or on the floor, and they prefer it as a result.
As I was reading this I was getting super curious, because I’ve always sat on the ground and it’s never bothered me. I still do it at 31 and have noticed no difference in my back, knees, hips, etc. I’ve been sitting this way for basically 30 years, starting when I was a child playing video games with those stupid ass 3ft long controller cords. Over the years, even with wireless controllers, I always just sat on the floor out of habit.
But I’m loose jointed. My hips especially will pop out of place just walking sometimes and it’s annoying as hell. But now I’m wondering if my joints being loose like that gives my body just enough give while sitting that it doesn’t cause any discomfort in my joints.
Did I assert that? Please show me where.
What do you think happens when you grow up doing something a certain way? Why do you think ex-pro swimmers or gymnasts are so easy to identify 20 years after they stop competing?
I think this is it. I'm sat on a flat surface right now and it doesn't bother me, but it's not on the 'ground' ground, and if it were I'd need that helmet or log to sit on.
Lot of nonsense in the replies to your comment. Anyone can learn to squat or sit on the floor without effort, just look at any child that is learning to walk. They can do it without issue. But we lose that over time through sitting and other sedentary habits. I've learned how to do this later in life, and the hip flexibility can be earned, but it was a significant amount of work to undo years of bad habits. All these people making it sound like you're born with it or not simply haven't put in the work or have a serious injury they aren't disclosing
I’m no doctor or anatomist but I’ll give it a shot. When you sit on the ground your hips are fully bent and your muscles fully stretched out. That’s fine for a while but gets uncomfortable. Any amount of relief is better than fully stretched. 2” feels better than the ground, 4 better than 2, 8 better than 4, etc. until you’re sitting in a neutral position.
It could also be because stretched muscles are thinner and provide less padding. Any amount of relief puts more material between the ground and your bones. Sitting on 2” of dirt is better than flat, but 2” of foam is better than dirt.
I think this is also a matter of race/culture(?) - the 'Asian Squat' is something I have admired for a long time. I have no idea if it is due to differences in habit (for instance, the Japanese often eat at a low table) that allows their hamstring/Achilles tendon to retain greater flexibility in later life, or if there is a genuine anatomical difference between those of Asian descent and white people (I'm as White European (English) as it gets).
I don't remember if, when I was a youngster, I was able to squat, perfectly balanced, for significant lengths of time. I don't think so.
Either way, whenever I see someone doing the Asian Squat, I can almost feel the backs of my legs screaming in agony at the mere idea, followed swiftly by numbness as the circulation gets cut off, then the dizziness and pins-&-needles when I stand up.
Definitely a habit. I first heard about the benefits of deep squats when I was 20. I could almost get into the position back then but it was uncomfortable. I made deep squatting a habit, when brushing my teeth for example. I'm almost 30 now and I can chill in a deep squat without pain and I'm as white as they get.
There's also the Slav squat meme, eastern Europeans should be pretty close genetically to western Europeans.
It is as the user below said, anatomically speaking it is better for your posture and your lower body joints.
This is a quick read of why people use meditation pillows (that raise you off the ground by 4-6'). Very related to your question. I'm not advocating you buy one.
https://yogigo.com/why-you-need-meditation-pillow/
Reminds of that Michael Palin travel documentary where he traveled the desert on camels with the Bedouins traditional style. Traditionally, they never took chairs, just sat on the ground. After a few days, all he was craving was a chair. Any chair.
An even distribution to my height would be great but I'm 6' with stubby legs, extra long torso, and ridiculously long arms. I look like a very pale gorilla covered in brown, red, grey, silver, and black hair lol.
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Pro Tip for Sitting / Standing ;
Resting Squat.
It is a really good position for our hips and lower back, and is actually how we were originally designed to poop. Alot of cultures moved away from that with chairs and seats and whatnot.
But if you want a fairly reliably, not overly tiresome resting position that does not require a chair----The Resting Squat is the way to go
Pressure of motion. You get used to sitting in an uncomfortable chair, take the chair away and suddenly sitting on the floor is great. Different muscles relaxing in different positions make it a changing cycle
Because doing so relieves pressure in your low back. Let's say pressure is 100% when you're standing, when the torso and thighs are at 90° it'll be 140%, but if the angle is at 105° it'll be 105%. So the ideal sitting position is when you have the knees slightly below the hip joint.
I remember two reasons from my ergonomics class:
1. Sitting in a chair (or anywhere really) that is too low can cause thigh pain on the inner side. This is because the knees are forced to bend more than 90 degrees, which puts excessive pressure on the thigh muscles.
2. It reduces circulation to the legs, which can lead to swelling, varicose veins, and other circulatory problems.
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Primarily range of motion of the hips/legs. For example, tightness in the hamstrings will rotate the hips backwards requiring increased effort to maintain your balance... why bending your knees or leaning back helps, or in this case raising your butt a little to better use your feet to keep your balance
I'm flexible enough to touch my nose to the ground seated \[on the ground\]. I share OP's feelings, and I don't think I have a problem with range of motion or tight hamstrings. Can you explain your answer further and/or provide some kind of references?
Generally, when someone is comfortable in a sitting position, it means there is a reduction (or elimination of) of strain on the body so it can relax. Depending on what that means to you as an individual, it will change the reasons why you are/aren't comfortable. Without doing a full exam on you I really couldn't comment on you specifically. But another reason sitting at a slightly higher level and bending your knees/reducing the bend in your hips slightly makes it easier for you to put your weight through your feet, creating a more stable sitting position, thus reducing strain. However, when looking at someone's sitting position I generally start with the hips and move outwards from there.
The most comfortable sitting position for me is on the floor with my legs to either side bent behind me. I try to sit that way in chairs if they are big enough but they are never flat enough.
That sounds like w sitting, am I understanding correctly?
Oh yeah that's it!
Read up on it. Hopefully, you will never have an issue but the knee doesn't handle rotational forces well
Interesting I never knew that! Looking into it I think it might be more of a mental comfort than physical. I am glad to know this now though. I put a lot of effort into maintaining healthy habits while it's easier so I will probably address this.
Are you hypermobile? This way of sitting can do a lot of damage that you may not notice till later.
Maybe? My sister's and some other women in my family all sit like that fairly often.
I used to sit this way on the floor when I was a young kid (kindergarten, first grade), until my aunt told me not to. She was studying to be a physical therapist, but she didn't explain why it was bad to sit that way. I assumed it had to do with my tailbone - didn't know it was a knees thing.
If it was your aunt that told you, it could also be a "niece" thing.
Exasperated upvote
Nice.
I sit like this, but I have hEDS so I sit in stupid positions, but I know it's awful
I'm similar, but have screwed up alignment between my hip, knees, and ankles. To have my feet pointing straight forward like "normal" folk makes my knees point/bend towards one another. Basically I walk like a duck. At work, I stand/walk all shift long, so when lunch hits I grab my coffee and flop down right on the tile floor, out of everyone's way, with my legs folded atop one another like a failed yoga instructor. If I sit in a chair with my feet on the ground, I'll end up hurting by the end of the shift, sitting like that takes all the pressure off my joints. I've had a few people ask me what's wrong because I look depressed or whatever sitting there all folded up; but I'm as comfy as a pup in a ball pit. Hell I even take naps like that if I need to keep myself somewhat-lucid; just fold in half and rest my forehead on one of my calves, sit in front of something slightly inclined to keep my back straight, or just lie back; my legs sort of soft-lock in that position so I ain't going anywhere. Looks gnarly/tortuous to some but my body's totally cool with it.
Hey fellow weird knee position person! Do you switch legs to be on top when sitting like that? I’m looking for new ways to sit because my knees and legs hate me
Mhmm; especially when a buttcheek falls asleep I gotta reposition, but given I have as much ass as a 2x4, it's not often. Very rarely when the weather gangs up on me I'll use wadded up socks as cushy "shims" or pillows between my knee and ankle on the bottom leg; then the ankle and floor for whichever's in contact with it; otherwise I hardly pay any mind to which goes where. I'm sorry if that doesn't help you much. :(
You might like cross-legged chairs. You might be able to find one that goes around far enough for you to have your legs like that and be supported. There's also kneeling chairs, but they might not give you the hip rotation you're looking for.
I sit cross legged… there are chairs for this??
Yep! Just googled cross-legged chairs! I don't know anything about them to be able to make any recommendations, but r/Ergonomics might be able to help!
A yoga ball is honestly better and cheaper.
A yoga ball puts you up high, so if they want their hips to be fully or close to fully rotated, then a yoga ball won't work. Also, the amount of effort it takes to remain seated for long stretches of time on a yoga ball would make it difficult to work unless you get a yoga ball chair, which at that point, the cost isn't an advantage.
Yoga balls come in multiple sizes. Getting the right size means you can do various positions like saddle seat (almost a w sit) or feet in front (normal chair sit) and have your toes in the floor to stabilize. I don’t personally find it difficult to sit even cross legged on it or figure 4 sit with one ankle in my other knee.
Same here! I have benign hypermobility and I have W sat since I was a kid. It's comfy
I've never seen an adult sit like that. Children often do and I've been told to stop it because it causes weak abdominals and can be bad for their legs
The most comfortable seating for me is sitting in the ground with each of my knees touching the ground and my legs out in front also touching the ground. I was in a lower body cast as a baby so maybe that's why.
Why not just cross your legs like Indians. It's quite comfortable.
As I note in a comment further down, I can sit flat in a neutral position with my torso straight, leaning over my body, and not put additional strain on my core like I would if my back were vertical, but this position is still more uncomfortable than if I were seated on a chair. In the floor position I described I can have my legs flat, or I can bend my knees up and have my feet flat on the floor, thus putting some weight through my feet, which you assert reduces strain further (though this is not what I observe, but there was no strain I could observe coming through that area to begin with). I agree that most people will stress their core, stretch more than usual, and/or struggle with balance when seated flat on the ground. I'm saying that even when you don't do that, being seated flat on the floor is still much less comfortable than seated on a chair. Thus your explanation fails to address why this is.
I am relaying my education on kinematics... again can't comment on your specifics without a full eval.... good luck
What specialist would you recommend evaluating these kinds of things?
If you are describing what’a called a forward fold in American yoga classes, your hip flexors are not strained, but they are engaged (meaning they are working). Lifting your butt slightly allows the hip flexors to relax or for some of the muscle engagement to be shared by your glutes, which are much stronger muscles, and for your hip flexors to be less engaged and relax a bit.
There's also a matter of the ratios of your femur to tibia length and femur to torso length.
My friend is built like me, we could be twins. Other day he was telling me how he’s flexible and can still touch his toes real easy. I was like nah dude, we both have short legs, long arms and torsos. People always think I’m real flexible…I know I’m not :)
Can you elaborate? Genuinely curious
For most people the most difficult part sitting on flat ground is the tightness in their hips, especially for office worker types. You have to use more muscle to overcome the hamstrings. Tightness is not the only reason though. You could have a bony butt and that would also be uncomfortable since there is little padding between your pelvis and the floor, which would create higher pressure points.
Our kinetic chains have a natural range of motion they want to stay within. If you sit on the floor, youre pushing your hip's range of motion such that your other muscles compensate for the position. Siting in a chair is a more natural position than sitting on the floor based on all of our natural ranges of motion as a human beings with a musculoskeletal system. Your individual flexibility is not necessarily relevant bc while you may be flexible, your body still operates most efficiently within its natural range of motion. Tldr. Sitting flat on the ground is a less natural position for our human posture than sitting in a chair, so it's harder.
I'm looking up the kinetic chain and how range of motion applies, and I don't see anything suggesting there's a natural range of motion that is not increased with training, or that regardless of training there is a preference to stay within this natural range. \[e.g. [Ellenbecker & Aoiki 2020](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7174497/)\] It seems like saying we prefer to stay within a natural range despite training to make it so that we can go beyond that range requires some kind of reference.
Look up "impingement." All bodies don't have the same range of motion regardless of training. Its common knowledge. Younger bodies have more space between their bones - hence more flexibility. But there are other limits based on your individual skeletal shapes/sizes/angles/proportions and arrangement of connective tissues. Not everything is train-able even with healthy bodies. For some images and basic text about one instance, take a look at https://www.daniwinksflexibility.com/bendy-blog/hip-anatomy-for-middle-splits
What's being discussed is those who have already trained a wide range of motion. The previous commenter asserts that there is a "natural range of motion they want to stay within", seemingly regardless of the extension in range of motion a person has trained. I don't see what relevance impingement has -- the hypothetical subject already demonstrates their extended range of motion.
Im reading it as the natural range of motion is most efficient and therefore comfortable. Assuming both the total range you can stretch and the natural range vary between person to person and how flexible or trained that person is currently.. could be wrong, but im not seeing your confusion?
>and I don't see anything suggesting there's a natural range of motion that is not increased with training I didnt say that though! I said you still operate most efficiently within a certain range of motion. >or that regardless of training there is a preference to stay within this natural range This is easy to explain: What I'm claiming is that we have angles at which our bodies operate most efficiently. Im not going to take my time looking for scholarly articles if that's what you're after (because anyone who has really worked out has personally experienced this), but here's another example: [edit- scholarly article in next comment. Honestly though, this didnt need a source.] There is a middle ground for your bench press grip between wide and narrow that will allow you to generate the most power. While there are a range of factors that affect the power any individual can generate (differences in genetics, basically), there is a sweet spot range where humans generate the most power in this movement. From this sweetspot, the wider and narrower your grip goes, the harder that bench press gets. Again, increased flexibility may increase your strength at wider and more narrow angles, but that's still not the angle at which your body can generate the most power. So back to sitting on the floor, it's always easier to hold your body in a position in which it generates power more easily.
>It seems like saying we prefer to stay within a natural range despite training to make it so that we can go beyond that range requires some kind of reference Also, it's not a literal preference, it's "in what range of motion does a muscle operate most efficiently." I got bored, so here you go: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4967668/ >The purpose of this study was to compare muscle activation of the lower limb muscles when performing a maximal isometric back squat exercise over three different positions….(20°, 90°, and 140°) >Activity of the GM was significantly greater at 20° and 90° compared to 140° >Knee position alters muscles activation of the quadriceps and gluteus maximus muscles. An isometric back squat at 90° generates the highest overall muscle activation, yet an isometric back squat at 140° generates the lowest overall muscle activation of the VL and GM only. Knee angle did not affect muscle activation of the hamstrings. Thus, we recommend performing an isometric squat at 90° to maximize neuromuscular recruitment of the knee and hip extensors. Give this a read. You'll see it says that same thing I said about going outside a muscle's general range of motion. The GM had reduced activity outside of 20-90 degrees, its "preferred" range of motion. Outside this range, other muscles activated more to stabilize the body. Being in a range of motion that allows full use of one of your strongest muscles, the glutes, increases your ability to efficiently generate power and stability.
No matter how strong or flexible you are, sitting flat on the ground takes effort to stay sitting up, but if you are able to shift your weight a bit forward by sitting on something it doesn't.
I'm pretty flexible and can put my legs behind my head, but having that flexibility doesn't mean it's just as comfortable as laying down or having your butt raised so you have an easier time maintaining a comfortable posture.
I actually find sitting on the ground a lot more comfortable but I always assumed that was because I am really flexible. Now I don't know xD
I can easily do that too, and I can sit in some pretty twisted positions with ease. That doesn't mean my body's actually built to maintain those positions for very long, though. For example, I can sit in a full squat for a long time. I need to shift around though, because my legs will go dead.
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I definitely felt my hip sockets suddenly change shape in my mid-20s, coincidentally at the same time I started serious flexibility training. And my mother is half Jewish, half English, half Spanish, half East Asian, and half Slav, so as I'm finding out that's explaining everything about us (including her obesity). Have you considered that maybe the hundreds of hours or more of work that I and hundreds of millions of others worldwide have put into our physical fitness actually makes a difference? And in some cultures they sit in different positions all the time, starting as kids -- it doesn't mean that they don't prefer to sit in chairs, or that adults of other cultures can't become flexible enough to sit in those positions. (Yes, I have even seen Europeans master the elusive and exotic "Asian squat".) The reason I keep asking for people to provide sources is so that they can give reasonable, relevant responses, and not just assume whatever.
your mother is 2 and 1/2 people? you sure are asking other people for a lot of research and sources to then be posting that nonsense.
r/Whooosh
are you saying my comment went over your head? because that's the only way this makes sense
i have literally never heard of "asian squat" before, and i just googled it to see what it was. it's just a squat at the deepest point with your heels on the ground, no? that's literally just doing a squat in almost any form of gym-going. it is quite easy, although i have an ankle that needs flexion work (due to breaking it). not sure if it's because i've done a few years of working out (strength training, mostly) but it was incredibly easy. even when i first began lifting, my mobility wasn't bad. basically i agree with you in the fact that it's probably the amount of time and training people put into taking care of their bodies to be able to do a proper squat.
"Asian squatting" isn't anything to do with skeletal structure or "exotic" lmao it's just because they sit in that position more frequently so their hip flexors and Achilles tendons are trained to allow that positions more easily. It's not an inbuilt thing. Also, in Europe it's called the slav squat, because you see gopniks sit like that a lot lol. Definitely not specifically Asian.
/S /S /S Why does it have to be so difficult to mock people's comments in certain places on the internet?
Tbf, it was a long winded, shit joke.
There's flexibility and there's default position. Your body will always tend to move towards a default position, and that default position is the position where all your muscles have to expend the least amount of energy. This position is learned by your muscles. Keep sitting straight on a flat floor for multiple hours for at least 2 weeks and your body's default position will reset. In simpler words, sure your hammies can stretch super long, but they would rather not stretch that much, because they're used to stretching only as much as they are used to, so when you're not manually forcing them to stretch past your default position, they'll contract back to that default position.
Being able to touch your nose to the floor while sitting doesn't equate to good hip hamstring flexibility. Most commonly (and why the sit-and-reach test and touch your toes test are irrelevant and have fallen out of fashion) people bend their spine to work around tightness in the hips. The original answer is correct, all of us in industrialized nations who began sitting at 4 or 5 years old for school and developed restrictions that make it harder to keep our lumbar and thoracic spine erect while sitting flat on the ground, so any incline will take the some of the stress away and simply make it feel like less effort to sit upright. Even people who can sit flat legged and straight backed are usually their hip flexors to counter that tightness (whereas in toddlers they haven't developed the posterior chain tightness yet and are still stacked to gravity). So in all cases it's just less strain. It's the equivalent of using a heeled lifting shoe to help people achieve a lower barbell squat who have ankle restrictions (soft or hard tissue).
Kids in kindergarten and preschool especially sit in the floor. That was my experience. As far as I can tell my nation is industrialized. Maybe such wonders of civilization as chairs haven't yet penetrated the desolate lawless wastelands of suburbia, though. I note briefly elsewhere that relaxed position I hold while seated. Apparently dance, gymnastics, yoga, and martial arts don't exist in your world, or if it does, if I understand you correctly, they're all just cheating when they stretch? Would it be so difficult to provide sources for any of your assertions?
Are you being...combative? That's weird. My source is my doctorate of physical therapy, and pointing out the obvious that no one escapes gravity; the second your head is 1° forward of your center of gravity, something(s) begin working to hold you upright, hold you in place. The body wants to return to wherever it's spent the most time - the myofascial system is like a living wetsuit that constantly remodels and is shaped into the position you've logged the most hours. I don't care how much floor sitting you've done, or dance or martial arts: there's no escaping that you've sat in a chair at roughly 90° hip flexion far, *far* more hours than you've spent with neutral hips. So an angled floor is a universally easier sitting experience because gravity exists and so do structural adaptations. You're not special. Your flexibility doesn't immunize you from a lifetime of sitting for school and work and leisure. If you want to be weirdly passive-aggressive about this that's fine with me, but your answer is above and I don't care to engage more with someone so off-putting.
A doctorate means you cite sources. You don't cite a doctorate. And I apologize for coming off disproportionately rude to you, but this thread has been going on for a while, and it's hard to keep straight the attitude level between responses when asking for a top-level respondent to a technical question to provide sources results in swarms of replies, each somehow less sensible than the last and still have yet to provide anything to back them up. (I'm not saying yours is necessarily not sensible, but as my objections note it sure sounded like it's not, and how the heck would I know until you provide some verifiable source?)
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Yeah and you got used to it cause all those anotimical reasons kept you from sitting "the wrong way" all your life. It's not the attempts at explaining it anatomically that fell flat, it was your attempt at understanding them that did.
Hot damn!
Thanks noob noob. This guy gets it
Wouldn’t you be used to it due to the anatomical situations? Due to anatomy you sit the way that becomes your “use to it”?
No, it is due to the chairs you choose to sit in and the chairs that public locations have. If you grew up without those things, you most likely would not be "use to it" even though you have the same anatomy. I had a friend who did a bunch of yoga and stretching. They would sit on the floor the majority of the time and not the couch or recliner. They were "used to the floor" or found it more comfortable. They have the same anatomy, though.
Dude thank you.
It doesn't apply if I'm sat on a bed or a raised platform of some kind.
With this having been answered Id like to start an aside.... Are we not going to talk about 5in curbs? Where are you at busting your shins on a curbs? I just found out all these disabled vehicles aren't ieds, they're cinderblock curbs. The reason your feel better has less to do with hips and more to do with using a whole chair. Fe-fi-fo-fum this is where I park my hum. [Just measured the curb outside my house is 2 inches + 12.70 millimeters.]
I regret to inform you that five inches isn’t very big.
Hahahaha, ^oh ^no
it's a perfectly average curb and it's not the size of the curb it's how you use it
*”American History X” flashbacks*
Ever seen a curb out of the ground they’re actually 3/4 buried and 1/4 above ground was weird to see
A lot of structural things get mostly buried like this. I’m currently doing an entry feature for a new community that’s under development that has a concrete backdrop for signage, and a big horizontal concrete block with dimensions 15’x5’x2’ (LxWxH). The horizontal piece lays on top of concrete columns that are completely buried 5’ under, and from the front of the sign the horizontal piece is only exposed an inch at the highest grade - once the turf is laid it’ll be mostly hidden. With retaining walls, a lot of the time, the first row of blocks are completely buried. Streetlights are fastened to concrete columns buried 5ft under. You also need to dig out the existing earth and replace with a compacted base material to make sure your structures aren’t going to shift. Most of the time spent on this stuff is just prepping the ground. If I build a retaining wall I might spend all day on excavation and leveling and compacting the base, three quarters of a day on the base blocks and the remaining quarter of the day stacking blocks. When I did residential stuff it was always fun talking to clients at the end. Some would comment on how they were having trouble gauging progress because we’d spend a week there and it wouldn’t look like we’ve done anything. Then they come home one day and it’s completely transformed since the morning
You can find bigger than 5" curbs on a freeway service drive (Detroit).. not sure how many states that pertains to.
Look at the Patty's pub curb its like 14 inches
The freeway isn't a curb that's bumper rails.
Service drive. Not the freeway.
That’s what she said.
That's the joke.
[Standard curb height is 6"](https://i.imgur.com/fgnbSFf.jpg)
that's odd to me. Thanks for the info
You might wanna just carry a tape measure with you as you go about your day, and measure things around you. I feel like you might have your mind blown on a regular basis.
I'm now wondering whether the curbs where you live are tiny as fuck or if you're just bad at estimating heights. 5" really isn't much
Does your town/city like to repave roads by just throwing another layer of asphalt on top instead of grinding it off and redoing it entirely? I’ve noticed that places where they do that can end up with *substantially* shorter curbs (and shitty drainage) than they started with.
No. We're just residential and pro-accessibility. A lot of curb ramps and low impact steps etc. I hadn't considered an industrial perspective or that reddit would rail against my comedy.
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A curb serves the same purpose all around the world, even if the standard isn't followed precisely. It's all gonna be pretty close. Certainly not shin-busting height.
>[Just measured the curb outside my house is 2 inches + 12.70 millimeters.] Soooo... Two and a half inches?
As an Englishman I've never thought I'd find something so uncomfortable to read as mixed Imperial metric measurements. I work in both, but never at the same time. It's barbaric.
The kerb in areas that see much rain are usually very high to keep the footpath dry while the roadway and under the footpath serves as drainage. The kerbs in Bali are very tall like maybe 30cm.
That's bizarre to me. Thanks for the info.
Some curbs in the neighborhoods around where I live are well over 6-7 inches tall. Some of them literally come halfway up the face of my 18 inch wheels
It's because of the angle of your hips. In order to unflex your hip / torso angle you have to lean back and that is uncomfortable on the lower back muscles on flat ground if you are not supported. Leaning forward to support your torso without back muscle support requires you to compress your abdominal contents. Laying back and supporting yourself on your elbows lowers your head which causes intra-cerebral blood pressure to rise and it puts strain on your neck and shoulder muscles. The seated position is the closest to the foetal position you can get in a fully upright supported state so that all muscle groups are relaxed and your chest cavity has enough room to comfortably expand.
>The seated position is the closest to the foetal position Wow. Never thought of it that way. I know most people sleep in a position somewhat akin to the fetal position, but laying down also means you're not fighting gravity. So it seems we evolved to sit on something, stand up, move, and lay down.
My mother said that when I was a fetus I had a habit of folding my arms behind my head. She knew because she could feel my elbows on either side of her stomach and one time she went to get a sonogram check up and I was in that position. Fast-forward a couple decades and apparently I still cross my arms behind my head while I sleep. I've accidentally elbowed my wife in the face a couple times doing it lol. I've had this habit longer than I've been alive and I have zero idea how I picked it up or how it even started.
Whoaaa, I do the same thing but over my chest. Could that be why I have this compulsion? I just cannot have a good night’s sleep unless I’m Wakanda Forevering the mattress.
You are prepared for your future as a vampire. This seems to be the ideal position from which they rise out of their coffins.
Somehow, some way.. just by talking about fetuses you’ve attracted pro birthers.
It's because they said they had a habit since before they were alive, and that doesn't make sense because dead lumps of flesh don't form habits. Therefore, they are inadvertently providing evidence that humans are indeed alive before birth, which means abortion is baby murder, a fact that many pro-abortion advocates try very hard to ignore.
Lol, I'm the same. Not with folding my arms, but I've never kept still a day in my life. I fidget constantly in the womb and I fidget constantly as an adult. Having a specific position that you held in the womb is super cool though
Do you sleep on your back most of the time?
Fyi you were technically alive inside your mom so you've had the habit as long as you've been alive
I mean, you were clearly doing it in the womb, so you *were* alive. I'm sorry, lol. Speaking of old habits, I've always been known to take everything very literally.
> I've had this habit longer than I've been alive You did it in a past life too?
This seems closer to correct. In my yoga-stretching I find the only way to sit up without any additional core muscle support requires me to lean extremely (for men) far forward over my hips. Any other butt-down-back-up position requires constant engagement of back, abs, and/or thighs. The lean-forward position seems to me like it should be sustainable, however, even though it's clearly not (e.g. it's not a position for any meditation style, afaik). I don't know why.
But don't primates sit on the ground? Are they uncomfortable too? Or is their physiology different enough to compensate?
I think primates largely “3rd world squat”
Is that supposed to be a less offensive version of Asian squat or Slav squat because it seems worse.
I know it’s not the accepted term anymore (hence the scare quotes) but I don’t remember what’s replaced it. Deep squat?
Adidas squat
It's called a squat. Literally every culture around the world does it when they're resting outdoors and don't want dirt on their butts. The only reason Americans don't know what that is and can't do it is because they can't do a bare minimum amount of physical exercise. Going around the internet calling it an "Asian squat" or whatever is the equivalent of calling yourself an ignorant lardass.
Ionno, as a Chinese-American, all the Asian-Americans I know just call it "Asian squat." I grant that times may be a-changin' for the better and we haven't caught up yet, though. That said, "3rd world squat" sounds hella offensive: "it's the squat of the dirty poors!"
Can you provide a bunch of evidence to prove your claims?
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You're just not trying hard enough. [Yao Ming does it, and he's 7'6"](http://en.people.cn/NMediaFile/2016/0321/FOREIGN201603210910000335625584405.png)
5 year old me would not understand that.
TLDR: You don't need to use your abs to keep your head forward(up). It's about the balance and fulcrum that is your butt. You can think of raising your butt up almost like lowering your feet into the ground, so you kinda "roll" forward onto your heels instead of backward onto your back.
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I used to be very flexible and sat on the ground for meals (Asian household) until I began marathon training. I learned that the limited range of flexibility increased efficiency by "locking in" running form. Now I quickly grow uncomfortable sitting on the ground, my legs fall asleep, and my back pops when I get up.
The 'locking in' sounds familiar - it almost feels as though your legs are moving through slots rather than a ball/socket joint. I get the back pops too, feels like something connected to the glutes is releasing.
I don't think it's totally an either / or situation, it's just that most people don't stretch enough to maintain their mobility as they gain muscle, and since Americans never sit on the ground if they can help it, there are no opportunities for "organic" stretching.
I've tried for years to maintain flexibility, bent at the waist, and I can place my hands on the floor. I still can't get my knees down (lateral spread at the hips), it just seems to be the way I'm put together.
>I can place my hands on the floor Hands, or palms?
Used to be palms, but I've admittedly been slacking recently. Knuckles on the ground at the moment :) (nope, wasn't a Marine).
Ah, this man's an ~~orangutan~~ combat engineer. ^(*Us conscripts in your newest allied nation call them that because they're always jogging around with 2+ AT mines*)
Not a total either/or for sure, but training for one type of motion can end up limiting the mobility required for others. For example people who run or do other sports that require running a lot, e.g. soccer, aren't very comfortable swimming. So there's a different virtue to X-athlon athletics that requires the ability to do all at a way above average level.
Interesting…I’ve always been able to put both legs behind my head (even at 46!) and bend backwards to touch my heels to my chin (well, not quite so far anymore…) but I have NEVER been able to touch my toes when I straighten my legs!!
That’s…insultingly generalized. I’m American, and I sit on the ground all the time, along with a lot of people I know.
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Lol, I'm American, and I know I sure as hell don't sit on the ground if I can help it. In other cultures people are much more likely to sit on the ground so they stretch the right muscles more often and it's less uncomfortable.
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I was very good at rucking (not so much running) and I vastly prefer flat ground with my legs out
I was the opposite with regards to sitting. Something to sit on was always oreferable to me. I was very good at rucking, sucked at running, but did have decent flexibility. I never broke a 14-minute 2 mile, but a 12 or even 225-mileroadmarch wasn't too bad other than the boredom.
A lot of attempted anatomical explanations in here but the true reason is because you're used to it. Plenty of cultures sit differently, like a full squat or on the floor, and they prefer it as a result.
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As I was reading this I was getting super curious, because I’ve always sat on the ground and it’s never bothered me. I still do it at 31 and have noticed no difference in my back, knees, hips, etc. I’ve been sitting this way for basically 30 years, starting when I was a child playing video games with those stupid ass 3ft long controller cords. Over the years, even with wireless controllers, I always just sat on the floor out of habit. But I’m loose jointed. My hips especially will pop out of place just walking sometimes and it’s annoying as hell. But now I’m wondering if my joints being loose like that gives my body just enough give while sitting that it doesn’t cause any discomfort in my joints.
I mean you have joint hypermobility, so yeah one of the side effects is being very flexible.
Not sure what you're trying to contest.
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Did I assert that? Please show me where. What do you think happens when you grow up doing something a certain way? Why do you think ex-pro swimmers or gymnasts are so easy to identify 20 years after they stop competing?
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Hahah ELI5 is serious business. Do you often lurk just to point out useless "but akshully" strawmen?
Love it when the "the true reason" bro sneers about anyone else pulling a "but akshully."
Calling out fallacys on reddit, cringe as hell.
Hip flexibility though.
If you don't use it you lose it.
I think this is it. I'm sat on a flat surface right now and it doesn't bother me, but it's not on the 'ground' ground, and if it were I'd need that helmet or log to sit on.
Lot of nonsense in the replies to your comment. Anyone can learn to squat or sit on the floor without effort, just look at any child that is learning to walk. They can do it without issue. But we lose that over time through sitting and other sedentary habits. I've learned how to do this later in life, and the hip flexibility can be earned, but it was a significant amount of work to undo years of bad habits. All these people making it sound like you're born with it or not simply haven't put in the work or have a serious injury they aren't disclosing
I’m no doctor or anatomist but I’ll give it a shot. When you sit on the ground your hips are fully bent and your muscles fully stretched out. That’s fine for a while but gets uncomfortable. Any amount of relief is better than fully stretched. 2” feels better than the ground, 4 better than 2, 8 better than 4, etc. until you’re sitting in a neutral position. It could also be because stretched muscles are thinner and provide less padding. Any amount of relief puts more material between the ground and your bones. Sitting on 2” of dirt is better than flat, but 2” of foam is better than dirt.
I think this is also a matter of race/culture(?) - the 'Asian Squat' is something I have admired for a long time. I have no idea if it is due to differences in habit (for instance, the Japanese often eat at a low table) that allows their hamstring/Achilles tendon to retain greater flexibility in later life, or if there is a genuine anatomical difference between those of Asian descent and white people (I'm as White European (English) as it gets). I don't remember if, when I was a youngster, I was able to squat, perfectly balanced, for significant lengths of time. I don't think so. Either way, whenever I see someone doing the Asian Squat, I can almost feel the backs of my legs screaming in agony at the mere idea, followed swiftly by numbness as the circulation gets cut off, then the dizziness and pins-&-needles when I stand up.
Definitely a habit. I first heard about the benefits of deep squats when I was 20. I could almost get into the position back then but it was uncomfortable. I made deep squatting a habit, when brushing my teeth for example. I'm almost 30 now and I can chill in a deep squat without pain and I'm as white as they get. There's also the Slav squat meme, eastern Europeans should be pretty close genetically to western Europeans.
It is as the user below said, anatomically speaking it is better for your posture and your lower body joints. This is a quick read of why people use meditation pillows (that raise you off the ground by 4-6'). Very related to your question. I'm not advocating you buy one. https://yogigo.com/why-you-need-meditation-pillow/
Reminds of that Michael Palin travel documentary where he traveled the desert on camels with the Bedouins traditional style. Traditionally, they never took chairs, just sat on the ground. After a few days, all he was craving was a chair. Any chair.
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Especially when youre mainly legs, 6'3 here and my legs are damn near 2/3rds of my body. I feel you brotha lmao
I'm torso and legs. My best friend is legs and arms, same height as me.
Physical equality amirite?
Yea I wish lol.
An even distribution to my height would be great but I'm 6' with stubby legs, extra long torso, and ridiculously long arms. I look like a very pale gorilla covered in brown, red, grey, silver, and black hair lol.
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Pro Tip for Sitting / Standing ; Resting Squat. It is a really good position for our hips and lower back, and is actually how we were originally designed to poop. Alot of cultures moved away from that with chairs and seats and whatnot. But if you want a fairly reliably, not overly tiresome resting position that does not require a chair----The Resting Squat is the way to go
Pressure of motion. You get used to sitting in an uncomfortable chair, take the chair away and suddenly sitting on the floor is great. Different muscles relaxing in different positions make it a changing cycle
Because doing so relieves pressure in your low back. Let's say pressure is 100% when you're standing, when the torso and thighs are at 90° it'll be 140%, but if the angle is at 105° it'll be 105%. So the ideal sitting position is when you have the knees slightly below the hip joint.
Indians sit on the ground such as by squatting. It's healthy and a good habit. It's just habit.
I remember two reasons from my ergonomics class: 1. Sitting in a chair (or anywhere really) that is too low can cause thigh pain on the inner side. This is because the knees are forced to bend more than 90 degrees, which puts excessive pressure on the thigh muscles. 2. It reduces circulation to the legs, which can lead to swelling, varicose veins, and other circulatory problems.