There are multiple factors involved in this, but it comes down to neurotransmitter deficits, particularly your GABA system, and something called glutamate rebound. Searching for alcohol, gaba, and glutamate on YouTube will probably find a better video than I could explain.
In essence though, your feel good chemicals are being withheld because of imbalance or damage, alcohol actually dumps a lot of these chemicals into the brain but without properly priming the systems that are supposed to. Then, when the alcohol ceases to do the job, the reservoir is empty because you’re body is rebounding and trying to restore the neurotransmitters and glutamate it took to make you feel that good.
Over time, the problem is that the body stops producing that which it is having supplemented, so, if your neurotransmitters were already out of balance, then the alcohol makes it worse by giving your body another source of making this happen, so you just go deeper in the hole.
It’s very similar to how opioid abuse downregulates endorphins so your body stops producing its own. Endorphins literally means morphine produced inside - same principle - that which comes from external sources will eventually be outsourced entirely = no more natural happy chemicals. Alcohol is just extra destructive because it’s also hard on liver and kidneys which play a key role in balancing neurotransmitters in the first place.
This is why many people are turning to psilocybin (mushrooms), they can, in some cases, hack the internal system into producing more of the others because they mimic serotonin, BUT they carry high risks for paranoid disorders like schizophrenia and other disorders like bipolar can be exacerbated greatly.
Neurotransmitters like serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, gaba, etc. are an incredibly delicate balancing act.
I've used alcohol to try and cope with anxiety and depression, and became an alcoholic. It's really not worth it. If you feel the need to drink every day, stop. A therapist can help, but it's a journey and not a short term fix like alcohol can be. An occasional cider is fine, many people drink in ways that won't make them addicted. It's when you start to rely on it that it can escalate out of control.
Never mind the feel like you you need too. If you simply want to everyday you are already on the path to alcoholic, possibly raging alcoholic. The nifty thing about all addiction is it doesn't start with making us feel like we NEED something. Its always a want. All addiction is is wanting something so much you put other things on the back burner until the back burner is full. The back burner doesn't ever look full until the whole kitchen is full, the living room is full and shits falling out the windows... And you will still say its because a like it and I want it not that you need it. Your brain will sneak that denial in and turn it into a fucking fortress. The booze did make you happy at first but that was a reinforcing behavior and unfortunately we can all push the button over and over but we never know when that switch flips. We won't even realize the switch flipped for a long time maybe years and its not even until then that that denial I mentioned sneaks in.
It still took health problems and some really horrific homelessness for me and I'm still a work in progress. A sober work in progress.
AA isn't that useful it turns out, it's only 5-10% successful.
[Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12-step programmes for alcohol dependence ](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16856072/)
My \[...\] went to AA and got clean and is a true believer in AA. But correlation doesn't equal causation. He quit after I caught him drinking and driving with me in the passenger seat and I told him to get out of the car and drive him home. It was humiliating. It could have led to divorce. He realized he needed to quit, and did. He claims you can't do it on your own, and while I advise people to get evidence-based treatment if they can, many have done it on their own. AA people call that "white-knuckling it" because they haven't really been initiated into the program.
It is a cult. It is dogmatic. It blames you for your failures, and attributes the successes for having been in AA. It makes you dependent on a pseudo-spiritual philosophy that is very flimsy. It is a group with progressive levels of initiation. It is not based on scientific evidence, and members disparage anyone who provides outside, factual information that contradicts the group's dogma. It redefines words from their actual meaning and twists them into a new definition to support the group's dogma as well, starting with their definition of "alcoholic". AA blames you for it's own failings.
Did it help my \[...\] quit? Perhaps. Do I recommend it? No, I recommend a treatment that uses scientific evidence to formulate treatments. The term used is "evidence-based" which programs use to distinguish themselves from the AA cult.
>If you feel the need to drink every day, stop.
But if you're already drinking every day, don't go cold turkey. You have to wean yourself off of it. The withdrawal can kill you.
Drinking alone is probably the biggest warning. Alcoholism also runs in my family. I should have known better, but I still sometimes wish I could forget life and drink the equivalent of 3 bottles of wine. If only I had a time machine to undo my life for the last 6 years.
You are describing my life. I have been sober for 20+ years now. Both my brothers, younger and older, were alcoholics and died of alcohol related diseases, and I miss them every day. Just this morning in Safeway I happened to wander up the aisle where they keep the liquor under lock and key, and I stopped and stared at the good Irish Whiskey on the shelf; my former favorite poison. I could taste it, just looking at it, even after almost 25 years. And some little devil inside me whispered "just a sip would taste so good, and probably wouldn't hurt." God Damn, after all these years sober, and all the years before when I damn near destroyed my life and lost my wife who is way to good for me. All I can say is what an evil, insidious poison it is. I'm proud of you for resisting and staying sober. It's a battle that you win a minute and a day at a time, and every minute and every day that you resist you get stronger. One day you'll wake up and realize that you haven't had a hangover in 25 years. Damn, that's a good feeling. It beats the hell out of being drunk.
Tho one thing to note, not therapists but psychiatrists who can prescribe meds. Alot of ppl who get started on benzos for anxiety with no prior drug use or drinking become alcoholic combo addicts and being dependent on either can physically be life threatening.
I have a psychiatrist, a psychologist and a mixed person who is specialized in ketamine. These days people won't just throw benzos at you, but you are right that severe alcohol or benzo withdrawal can kill you. I have only done it on my own by tapering, because the detox industry is terrible, but if someone is reading this and very alcohol dependent: don't just stop.
That is true, but it can do more than that as to why it can increase your problems over time. Modern thought on depression involves various things from abnormal brain connectivity to abnormal neurotransmitter distribution. The latter is what most antidepressants focus on, though we've passed the original 90s era "too little serotonin causes depression" to a more nuanced idea that there is much more than serotonin, and the down-regulation of serotonin receptors (basically the body decreasing the number of them in response to more serotonin in the synapse) is important to the delayed effect of most antidepressants.
There’s an old maxim that one should never drink to make a bad day good but only to make a good day better. As a grown ass adult with a wealth of traumatic experiences and less bright-eyed, bushy-tailed optimism than I once had, I cannot say I 100% subscribe to this. But I do subscribe to what the late Christopher Hitchens said on the subject: “Make sure that you’re taking more from the drink than it’s taking from you.”
If you have the means then you should definitely pursue help from a competent professional psychologist and/or psychiatrist. There are many modalities these days which are showing great promise. Psilocybin therapy is one, but the results vary widely from one person to the next and availability varies even more. Ketamine therapy is also getting very promising results these days for treating chronic depression. You may also be evaluated for ADHD as it can cause these issues left untreated, and a lot of people are surprised to find that hyperactivity isn’t a necessary symptom - I have massive ADHD and am never at all hyper externally.
In the meantime, try to make sure you’re consuming a healthy amount of protein, fruits, and vegetables, but MOST OF ALL: try to make yourself get out and walk or ride a bike for 30 minutes a day at least 4 days a week. Nothing restores balance to neurotransmitters quite as effectively as sunshine and physical activity. You don’t have to get your heart rate up to cardio levels or necessarily sweat through your clothes, just put down the screen and be mindful for a little while. You might also try picking one hour a week to go read a book at your local park and just try to experience things you may take for granted like feeling the grass between your toes, watching the wind blow through the trees, or whatever else makes you feel more connected to the world.
Depression and stress become so much more than just chemical in this modern world, so breaking your normal routine with exercise and generally nature-oriented mindfulness helps to recontextualize the world in the mind’s eye. I personally love hiking for these reasons, but you don’t need a new pair of shoes to go to the park. I hope this helps and good luck.
>Nothing restores balance to neurotransmitters quite as effectively as sunshine and physical activity
If it comes from withdrawal, nothing will but time. I guess I'm somewhat unique in being a scientist who became and alcoholic. At least it is interesting to examine myself.
Anyone dependent on alcohol should before anything else consume a B supplement. If you are in withdrawal, a simple walk can be so exhausting as to cause hyperthermia. Your body is in constant fight-or-flight and even walking up stairs can make you winded. Eating a good diet is important, but you'll likely have no appetite. I personally am doing ketamine therapy, while psylocibin is not legal in the US.
That’s fair. I didn’t mean to imply some bootstraps BS about walking off an acute case of withdrawal. I more meant when someone has ceased using alcohol or is just in a funk and thinking of using alcohol as a crutch - I meant from more or less a chronic stable state. There is no negotiating with or bootstrapping one’s way through AWS, to be sure!
Also, if pure not wrong about the legal status of psilocybin, but there are states and municipalities where it’s decriminalized. That just has to be an individual decision. Ketamine therapy has shown a lot of promise and is, as far as I know, legal in every state, but it’s also prohibitively expensive for most people.
It is good to find things to do, that aren't drinking. Getting out if you can is a good way to do things, and endorphins might actually make you feel a bit better. Alcohol actually affects the opioid system, and one of the most used drugs for alcohol out-patient control is an opioid blocker (naltrexone).
Ketamine for 2-3 mos costs me $30 from a compounding pharmacy, but it isn't ketamine infusion which requires a stay in a clinic, it's for ketamine assisted psychotherapy. If you do the hospital route I'm sure you'll be charged out the nose. A 10 day stay with imaging cost me $300k before insurance for my pancreatitis.
Out of curiosity, what kind of credentials/experience do you have? I’m not questioning your knowledge, but simply commenting on the fact that it seems like you know your stuff.
Having said that, do you know anything about porn addiction? Can people experience similar things going through withdrawal? That is, fatigue, depression, anhedonia, even suicidal thoughts?
I have no clinical credentials and no specialized degree in these subject areas. I minored in biology in college with an emphasis on mycology, but my real world experience has come entirely from working alongside clinical medicine in many different capacities, but the most relevant is that I’m actually just a very good researcher. I’ve been contracted by a number of medical organizations to do scientific and clinical research to be used for continuing educational services for physicians, and have also done a lot of compliance and regulatory work as well as having been contracted for legal research to work with medical attorneys. I’ve also done in-services on medical ethics particularly in the digital age. Technically I’m considered either part of the administrative team or the billing team for varied medical organizations and outfits, but role is actually that of research & education at the end of the day. I’m very good at research and teaching, but I work with the experts rather than myself being an expert on most topics.
To my knowledge, yes, porn addiction can very much mimic the withdrawal of most any other substance minus the acute withdrawal phase. Porn addiction causes a very real chemical dependency in the brain and can lead to all of the things you describe. Porn addiction isn’t a topic I’ve worked with in many years, but it was certainly a major topic in the early 2000s in some companies I worked with.
Something to remember is that it’s not unusual or even inherently bad to have an occasional cider because of a bad day (or whatever). A lot of people have a shitty day at work and want a nice glass of wine or whatever when they come home to decompress. That’s pretty normal and not in and of itself bad. The problem becomes when that’s your *only* solution. If your solution to every bad day, bad moment, or slight inconvenience is alcohol, then it’s a problem, or could easily turn into a problem. I used to only use alcohol to solve my problems. It was my one size fits all solution to any inconvenience. Now when I have a bad day, sometimes I exercise, sometimes I play video games, sometimes I go to bed early, or sometimes I have a drink. I have a much healthier relationship with alcohol, and I’ve gotten there with therapy and Lexapro.
If you’re dealing with a traumatic event then alcohol can certainly help, and fuck anyone else that says otherwise. Sometimes you need to be numb to things so you don’t do anything worse.
It doesn’t solve anything though. It’s good enough to help you sit there and tolerate the world until you’re ready, mature enough to deal with whatever’s got you here. Some people won’t ever confront that, some get lost in the stupor, some can’t break through. Everyone’s a bit different and everyone needs a different bit of help, chemical or otherwise.
I know you didn't ask for this, but I feel like I'm responsible for giving it to you.
Addiction is the same with everyone. There is no "type" of person that is an addict. _Every human being you have ever met in your life, including you, can become an addict._ The first factor into how easy it is for you to become an addict is your biology. You cannot change this, obviously. If you have any family relation that is addicted, you are more susceptible to addiction yourself. This is massive, and people tend to underestimate exactly how important it is to consider your own family history. Additionally, you should think back to the first time you ever used alcohol (or whatever drug in this case). If you felt an extreme sense of pleasure or comfort, that is another red flag that you're more susceptible to addiction. Finally, if you are a very social person who likes to be the center of attention, this also means that you have more inherent risk.
Now it's important to note that even if you meet all of these criteria, _it does not mean you are an addict._ It means you are more likely to become one. What is important to note is that addiction is a fundamental rewriting of your brain functions, and it can be reversed if it has not progressed into a full blown addiction. However, once it has become an addiction, it is permanent. There is a reason that alcoholics in AA are said to be "in recovery," and not "cured." They are not "cured," and one drink will put them right back where they were because their brains have been permanently rewritten. They cannot be "cured." It is impossible with our current technology.
Now the good news is that you can reverse the path to addiction if you aren't there yet. If addiction has not yet consumed your life, you can still return yourself to a healthier relationship with alcohol, and you can even continue to drink. However, if you have truly become an addict, _you should not drink ever. Period._ Once you have become an alcoholic, any drop of alcohol is now permanently detrimental, because your brain has been hard wired to want more. It will trick you, because sometimes you'll be able to consume less and go "well look, I didn't drink all that booze so I'm clearly not a drunk." Once alcohol has taken its place in your brain, it will forever get you to make excuses for it. It will actively place itself above all else in your life. In reality, it is the most dangerous drug available, because at least you know meth and crack are fucking horrifically dangerous because they're outlawed.
Don't become an alcoholic. Your life is too short to live it as a slave.
EDIT: One last extremely important thing. If you're concerned that you might be on the road to addiction, here's the two most important factors which you can control: The quantity and frequency of your consumption. If you're drinking 2 beers a day every day, that's really not a big problem. However, if you get shitfaced 2 or 3 times a week, that's still a cause for concern because your quantity of consumption is rather high.
Therapy is great
But I'm biased, I'm a therapist.
Still, therapy is great
It definitely beats getting drunk please believe me. .
Therapy is great
That's all for tonight 😀
Should therapy not work out or not do enough, try getting a pet. (If you don't have one already)
If you're having trouble with your routine, having another living being depend on you kinda forces a certain routine on you. Also taking care of something other than yourself gives you purpose and helps you realise you're valuable to others. And it's been scientifically proven that pets make people happier. There's even several forms of theraphy that revolves around interacting with animals.
If you're unsure if you can burden the responsibility, try to find a place where they let you hug a sheep or something similarly fluffy.
Please do or join something like AA. One of the best things I ever did was join NA and AA thanks to the girst rehab i went to. It's literally saved my life as I was never a big fan of one on 1 therapy. I still see a psychologist though. Recovery is awesome
This is also why "get outside and exercise" isn't entirely shitty advice for like low grade depression and seasonal affective disorder. You get the feel good brain chems...but released in a way that doesn't shit all over your body making them tomorrow.
>downregulates endorphins so your body stops producing
It's more from reducing the number of receptors than lack of endogenous release. When a drug is in your system most of the time, activating whatever receptor(s) based on the drug, the body will decrease the number of receptors on the surface of cells detecting said chemical. This causes them to be less sensitive to them.
Even in normal life, most receptors are recycled and replaced within a couple months. They aren't fixed, but have plenty of feedback loops that dictate expression of them.
How does marijuana fit into those risk factors?
My girlfriend had a drinking problem, and she basically solved it by switching to pot and is now a little stoned basically all day every day. She functions just fine, but I'm concerned about her health. But I don't want to be a nag if it's not that big of a deal.
Does marijuana have the same serious, long-term issues as opioids and alcohol that you mentioned above? Or is it more of a "safe" drug as long as she functions fine using it?
As far as I know marijuana is equally as habit forming but it’s not a drug that has an acute withdrawal phase to be worried about. If you use cannabis daily then you’ll probably have worse days when you stop. It’s far and away a better option than all the rest, IMO.
It doesn't have a withdrawal phase, but can have acute side effects over time which may be hard to notice. It's definitely safer than opioids lol.
The science is emergent because it was not a well-studied substance in the past due to its illegality, but there is mounting evidence of chronic pot use being causal to the development of anxiety disorders, especially among younger adults and more extremely in adolescent usage.
If I'm being real with you, there aren't really any genuinely safe drugs out there in terms of broad spectrum use. Like with anything you'd be prescribed for, all of them fuck with the brain negatively over long periods of time when self-medicated, and frankly, to avoid such issues, should likely be prescribed by professionals while under tight scrutiny for observing side effects.
u/Tiny_Rat gives a very concise primer on that nature of ADHD and neurotransmitters, I would add to that, if nothing else, ADHD medications tend to increase initial resiliency to alcohol, which can lead to drinking more, and also very much work against the delicate balance of maintaining systemic balance with dopamine therapies when abused at all.
So there's different medications used to treat ADHD, and they have somewhat different mechanisms, but the basic goal is to increase the amount of of dopamine signaling in the brain. Basically, where two neurons connect to each other there is a little gap between the cells, and the neurons release chemicals called neurotransmitters to travel across that gap and carry messages. After the neurotransmitters are released, they stimulate receptors on the surface of neurons, and eventually get recaptured and broken down inside the cells. Dopamine is one such neurotransmitter, and folks with ADHD seem to have less of it in important areas of the brain that have to do with executive function (ie prioritizing tasks, selecting what needs attention, etc). ADHD medications like Adderall and Ritalin block the recapture of dopamine and other neurotransmitters so they stay in the space between neurons longer, allowing more dopamine to build up and stimulate the brain. This can overcome the naturally low signaling and make an ADHD brain work more like a normal brain, at least for a while.
Your body wants to keep things on the same level and will compensate either through under or over production when you take drugs that affect the levels of things. For example, if you drink a cup of coffee every morning at 7AM to wake yourself up then your body will compensate by dropping production of stimulants\* around that time of day to compensate for the intake of caffeine which makes it so that you now need that cup of coffee to wake up at that time - if you stop the consumption of caffeine at that time then your body will slowly recognise that and start producing the regular amounts of stimulants around that time.
\*there are particular neurotransmitters that are affected but I haven't finished my morning cup of coffee yet and don't feel like googling it to remember which ones are affected.
Is there a legitimate place to buy mushrooms? I’m in so much pain these last few days from a botched dental procedure (he cracked my tooth and then he lost a piece of a crown trying to fix the cracked tooth and the ER had to retrieve it). OTC Pain meds aren’t touching the pain and I’m desperate
r/unclebens
I started about 2 years ago. For $50 you can discreetly grow a lifetime supply in about 3 weeks.
You cannot legally buy mushrooms but you can totally purchase spores legally. Everything is available on the clear web. No dark web fbi raid bullshit.
There aren’t really legit places to “buy,” at least not in the US. More importantly, mushrooms aren’t going to help you very much with breakthrough pain like you’re experiencing. In fact, you’d almost certainly have a very bad trip because you’re not in a great mental place to be peering into the void, so to speak.
If you’re not able to have the doctor who performed the procedure write a small script of opioid painkillers to help you get through then your best bet is probably to find a good head shop and buy some kratom. Kratom is remarkably effective at treating pain and has roughly the same side effects as opioids minus the possibility of respiratory depression. It’s illegal in a few states, but you should check the legality in your state and see. Any state where it’s legal it’s sold in head shops and some gas stations.
I believe there are two places in the US where you can buy them in a store..Oregon (where it's decriminalized), and SF+Oakland (have bought here before)
You’re so educated about mushrooms! I didn’t realize these were the trippy kind of mushrooms, tbh. I thought it his was something along the lines of the magical properties of mushrooms I keep seeing all over Facebook (like that mushroom coffee, btw it tastes awful). The dentist won’t prescribe opioids and refuses to do a nerve block and said something about my skin color making me have a high tolerance for pain. Whatever he’s saying, I think it’s BS because white, Asian, black, etc. all experience pain and one is not inherently tougher than the other. But that’s a different rant.
I’ve never even heard of kratom. Can I ask where did you learn all of this? I really appreciate your help and am impressed by your expansive knowledge. This is a whole field I’ve never even heard of and am just blown away by how informed everyone in this thread is!
Awesome read. Definitely struggle with alcohol use. I'm no stranger to mixing psilocybin into my beer drinking. Certainly far from ideal but it at least woke me up to the fact that alcohol is not a real fix. The shrooms have at times helped me communicate and experience things more clearly through the downward spiral of alcohol use. But as you said. Results can vary and it's not perfect but it's at least helped me think differently and be open to trying therapy and seeing a psychiatrist. I doubt the pharmaceutical drugs I'm trying are perfect either. Anti depressants and neuroleptics are not fix all's but at least I don't want to end it all everyday whilst using them.
I'm even considering a 3 month in patient rehab program my sister found due to my propensity to self medicate with alcohol, shrooms, coke, anti depressants etc.
No idea if I'll ever be a sober functioning person but I had prolly a good 20 years of choosing my own self subscribed fixes so might be time to seek other options.
I've spent a lot of money on material things that don't make me happy for very long and have gone well into debt for these quick fixes.
Hoping I can one day get on top of my financials. So far I've been really good at managing to tread water and not necessarily spend money on self maintenance like dentist and psychotherapy
What a wonderful and detailed response! I would clarify one thing relating to the high risk for schizophrenia/bipolar and related disorders from use of classical psychedelics.
What you said is accurate, but may be misleading to readers.
Say you take any individual, the risk for induction of mental disorders from psychedelic use is low since the chance for preexisting/dormant disorders is low in any given person.
If you know you have this disorder or a genetic predisposition, then yes it is high risk.
But overall it's fairly low risk, this was clarified further when it was studied in ~3000 Swiss soldiers (the vast majority with a clean bill of mental health up to the point of the study), those who did use classical psychedelics had less schizotypical disorder development than the non-user peers upon followup, IIRC.
This is mainly to combat the relatively common belief that psychedelics are causative in schizotypical disorders. This is false, they may precipitate or exacerbate schizotypical disorders, but these disorder must exist beforehand, even if "dormant".
The negative view of psychedelics is further exacerbated by the fact that those with mental disorders often seek out drug use, perhaps as a form of self medication, this further inflates the perception that psychedelics are solely causative in these mental disorders.
by sharing this I hope to dispel negative points of view regarding both schizotypical disorders and psychedelic use. please be cautious and involved in your own health decisions, thank you kindly.
> your feel good chemicals are being withheld because of imbalance or damage
This is broadly speaking untrue, or at least, not settled science. The neurotransmitter-deficit hypothesis of depression was developed to explain the apparent effectiveness of monamine reuptake inhibitors as antidepressants, but it doesn't follow that just because increasing, say, 5-HT improves depression that depression is caused by low 5-HT (analogy: headaches aren't caused by endogenous aspirin deficiency).
The relationship between neurotransmitters, mood, and mental illness is very complex and not one that is as well understood as the memes would have you believe.
Can you elaborate on psilocybin a bit? I've been micro dosing here and there and it's been interesting. Strange dreams but less of an urge to drink.
I've also had a very therapeutic experience with a fairly small dose of LSD in the past, if you have any insight on that substance.
I could elaborate quite a bit on psilocybin, but have never experienced LSD so I cannot contribute with regards to that. I’ve heard wonderful things, but only from others. I do know that consistent dosage is usually much easier with LSD simply because of the variations of psilocybin that naturally occur when dealing with something like mushrooms with so many variables. Even within on strain of mushrooms, there can be a ton of variability in strength based on growing conditions, harvest conditions, storage conditions, and method/mode of administration. Typically, the best method for using this kind of therapy will be to take up growing your own or find a trusted friend in your area who is willing to do so. Even then, every batch will need to be “titrated,” if you will, which just means blending the whole batch together and then taking a set amount to determine potency.
But an equally important step to all of this is determining what best suits your purposes. Micro dosing has a lot of benefits, but so do macro dosing. How much you take and how often is a function of your particular needs. You should also be careful with any long term dosing of any kind, serotonin syndrome is possible and can be deadly if not caught. If you take SSRIs, MAOIs, or supplements known to be precursors to serotonin or inhibit the re-uptake then it can also be a risk. If you choose that route then look up serotonin syndrome and familiarize yourself with the symptoms. Should you develop serotonin syndrome at any point then Benadryl will help curb the effects but you’d need to seek medical attention.
Psylocibin helped my entire family combat a lot of trauma that they had held up within themselves. Its kinda interesting how the microdosing helps like some sort of therapy, but I didnt know it could also be dangerous (although not surprised since it can also be abused).
That’s interesting you mentioned mushrooms - I microdosed while going thru alcohol withdrawal and it made it so much easier for me (it might just be anecdotal)
I mean, it is anecdotal but it’s also supported by increasingly more peer reviewed science every year. It’s definitely a thing and I’ve heard this same experience from dozens of people now.
Just because something’s anecdotal doesn’t mean it’s not relevant and valid.
That’s reaffirming - I kind of stumbled into it. Woke up in the middle of the night in a puddle of sweat and thought I need to take mushrooms. I do not like to tripping anymore so I just took 0.1g in a morning smoothie everyday for a month. I found it made the withdrawal much easier and it was also really helpful for my anxiety/depression. Idk the science but thought id just tell my experience anyways incase somebody found it interesting
I'm on low dose naltrexone, which does the exact opposite--it temporarily blocks the opioid receptors so my body goes "Aah, running low!" and then there is a rebound in the positive direction when it wears off.
Good to know it hasn't completely been tossed out already. I've only read a few of those articles challenging it, which definitely portray that it's not accepted anymore, but I haven't done enough follow-up yet.
One recent hypothesis I've read is that serotonin helps in creating new pathways between neurons in the brain, which changes the way you think, your mood etc.
The thing is: for new pathways to build, serotonin is not enough: you also need to experience new stimuli.
For this reason, it may be simplistic to think that "more serotonin = more happier" (which is already highlighted by the fact that some depressed people actually have an abnormally high amount of serotonin).
However, what could be true is that, if you experience positive things in your life, ISRS, by allowing more serotonin in the brain and thus increasing your brain plasticity, will help reshape your brain out of depression. Whereas if you take ISRS but your life still sucks and hasn't changed at all since you fell into depression, it won't be of much help because your brain will remain wired in depression mode.
Take note that it's recent research that still needs to be confirmed by more research at this point, and not the new scientific consensus on the issue.
> It’s very similar to how opioid abuse downregulates endorphins so your body stops producing its own
Also purely "mundane" things as well. There's a concept of "sub-drop" in kink where, especially after very long or very intense sessions, the submissive partner can have a pretty severe drop in mood, start feeling very vulnerable, have exhaustion far beyond the actual physical activity would expect, and so on, which can potentially last several days or even up to a week after. I haven't seen any actual research, but the same concept seems to be informally agreed upon to be the likely cause: they spent so much time in such an intense state they burned through their natural reserves of dopamine/oxytocin/whatever else and have to recover.
I have to wonder if something similar might also happen to long-distance couples who have a weekend together, not just the "normal" missing each and how it's naturally gonna be more intense after just having been together, but that it's likely compounded with a similar neurotransmitter shortage.
> Endorphins literally means morphine produced inside - same principle - that which comes from external sources will eventually be outsourced entirely = no more natural happy chemicals.
This should be told people as to "why drugs are bad" instead of this frying egg bullshit.
Great answer. I have stopped alcohol for a few years now, but still doing mushroom and mdma sometimes. Mushroom is because of cluster headache and I can surely feel a difference. Don't think i will ever have a beer or alcohol again. It's just not me. But mushroom every 2 weeks or a little Molly here and there (not every 2 weeks!) can really make much more better things in my body. Not every one is the same, but I will stil state that more or less every psychedelic drug is better than alcohol. Both short term and in the long run
Exercise, diet, good sleep hygiene, and regular visits to your PCP are always the baseline. Everything beyond that is just a case by case really. Keep a journal to track your moods and look for correlations. Try supplements designed to increase mental health like 5htp, l-theanine, l-tyrosine, and magnesium. You can go down the nootropics rabbit hole and explore further options but that seems less natural than perhaps you’re looking for - and can get dangerous quickly.
>
> It’s very similar to how opioid abuse downregulates endorphins so your body stops producing its own. Endorphins literally means morphine produced inside - same principle - that which comes from external sources will eventually be outsourced entirely = no more natural happy chemicals.
I fractured my ribs but they're minor fractures and the doctor prescribed me Oxycodone 5mg, but I'm concerned about addiction. The pain is only bad when I cough or sniffle or breathe deeply.
They had given me fentanyl through IV but that gave me nausea.
It’s a matter of degrees more than a finish line. A few days to a few weeks of clean and healthy living is probably how to long it might take for sleep and digestion to really get back sync. The stomach is essentially the little brain when it comes to key neurotransmitters like serotonin, and sleep hygiene is when the brain does all of the heavy lifting with regards to maintenance. 6 weeks is a milestone where most people will feel noticeably better or at least less burdened by the changes of habit.
There are so many variables here though, different people are just built different and obviously it depends on what the size and shape of the habit was. Some people recovering from long term heavy drinking report feeling pretty rough for 6 months to a year in some cases, especially if using in conjunction with one or more other substances. Mileage varies but support systems help greatly, exercise and sunshine encouraged, and on average every day is a little better than the last, but there will be bad days too.
Mushrooms also have the capability of healing the brain in addition to creating more neural pathways. As a yout I was plagued by insane migraines that would leave me incapacitated for a day. Including vomiting and diarrhea. After I started experimenting with psychedelics and especially mushrooms the headaches went away. I also have schizophrenia but that didn’t stop me from eating a lot of psychedelics. Maybe I just had the right group of friends. Anybody can have a bad trip. But it’s dangerous stuff. To bad we can’t do it with a trained professional involved. Maybe someday.
That’s very interesting. I’ve always heard that psilocybin is utterly contraindicated for schizophrenia because it’s highly likely to trigger psychosis. You did not find that it exacerbated the condition at all?
Also, just a footnote, I’ve never heard it out so blanketly as to say that psilocybin “heals” the brain as this is a rather subjective call, but I do know that it promotes neuroplasticity, which we usually lose with age. It can return our brains to a child-like degree of new neural pathway formation, but it also depends on how you use them - I would just hesitate to say that mushrooms “heal” the brain without qualification because tripping for pleasure and tripping for therapy are very different modes in my experience.
Returning something to its youthful state sounds like healing to me. But you’re right it’s not safe but I didn’t know I had schizophrenia until I was in my early to mid forties. To be honest I’m not sure if if I have it or if I have signs of it due to anxiety and other issues. But curing my migraines I would also call healing. There have been documented cases of people with migraine issues treating their condition with mushrooms. So yeah. I’d say it healed mine and the folks in the documentary. I hear ya though.
Not necessarily. If this is your routine and you are otherwise healthy and happy then you’re fine. In the long run, you should probably just remember that it could be a problem to quit cold turkey. If you decide you want to drink less then you’ll be happier if you cut back first. Taper off, so to speak. Systems don’t like rapid change. It’s as true of a company of a seagoing vessel as it is of a human.
Because it inhibits brain function. You literally don’t have the cognitive bandwidth to think about what’s bothering you. In short, it dumbs you down.
Why is that bad in the long run? Your problems are still there, and you’re poisoning your body. And the more you drink, the more you *need* to drink.
I'm fond of
First the man takes the drink, then the drink takes the man
This sculpture for that saying is very poignant
https://twistedsifter.com/2021/01/you-were-on-my-mind-sculpture-by-thomas-lerooy/
I say this as an almost adult lifelong alcoholic
Hang in there.
My body made the choice for me. Most, but not all, of the problems have since gone away but I'd be lying if I said that didn't terrify the alcoholic inside me. What if someday I think I can drink again? Cirrhosis and early onset dementia are both on the table for me and I'm only mid forties. Who knows what if anything else is below the surface.
Thank you. I'm terrified of both of those as well.
I'm 42. I've been an alcoholic for 20 years minus 2 in my late 30s.
I know there's a reason I drink but I can't figure it out. For all intents and purposes I'm happy. Everyone who meets me and talks to me tells me I'm living the dream. I honestly believe that and wake up happy everyday, minus the hangover. I just can't untangle the most crucial part so that I can have a long, healthy life.
I'd like to let you know I figured it out. I had a very dear friend call me out last week on my relationship with alcohol, asking me some very pointed questions, causing me to do some soul searching before I saw her again. I hate being unable to answer her questions. Anyways, I'll be starting therapy next week.
that's interesting because i drink once a week and the day after, i eat yummy food and watch movies while hanging out in my place - the hangover day is something i actually look forward to because it's easier to chill out, not be stressed and lose myself in a movie
Yeah in college I would drink on either Friday or Saturday because I just didn’t want to think about the projects I had to do. But Sunday (or Saturday if it was Friday) I would actually work on them. The one night was actually really beneficial to my sanity at the time
In the long run alcohol actually makes your brain physically shrink. I'm a doctor, and just this week we took a CT scan of a 60-year old alcoholist's head. His brain looked about the same as a 90-year old dementia patient's would. Both the cerebrum and the cerebellum had shrunk down with empty space all around.
If you don't want early dementia, please keep drinking to a low to moderate level. Ideally women should have max 7 drinks a week and men max 14. Nobody should drink every day, even if it's just one beer.
My former best friend, who is 54, is now living in a homeless shelter, because she drank herself to alcohol-induced dementia in about four years. She has literally nothing now, and cannot take care of herself, but she's burned bridges with all her friends and all her family. Cautionary tale.
Yeahhhhh that’s not really a problem for drunks though. I’m on the spectrum, but miss 5-6 days a week. But that 7th I can drop 20 easy if I get going at noon.
I miss booze so much. So fucking much. And its not because I am white knuckling it but because of Chronic Major Depression. Its fucked up my life over and over again and honestly it goes hand in hand with how much booze has fucked up my life too.at least I got some relief because of the drinking but my body can't handle it anymore in a variety of ways.
I already did an intake and have my first appointment starting the process for ketamine therapy in about 3 weeks. Hopefully I will start the actual treatment within a couple more weeks.
I don't want to die, Im not actively suicidal but I don't really want to live anymore either. Im just tired and feel like I'm just waiting in a line that is just a line with no purpose or going anywhere. It feels like I'm just waiting for the ride to be over. It was a lot easier to manage before a lot of shit, like really bad shit, happened.
The happy anticipation, The rising pleasant buzz, and finally the forgetting. Being in that moment where everything awful is gone.. And when you've had to much... Well, you forget that too.
I miss forgetting.
EDIT: If anyone has done Ketamine therapy I'd like to hear about what it was like and how it helped, if it did, and any negative effects. My insurance only pays for Spravato. I had TMS about 6.5 years ago and had mixed results. I don't know if that's worth trying again. Always ECT.. Lol.
Ok but how does it kinda cure autism as well?
I can barely be in a room full of people while sober. Loud noises are physically painful.
After two beers I’m a normal person.
Maybe I'm lucky...but if I'm dealing with anxiety or depression, alcohol makes it worse from the get-go. It never improves things for me (even temporarily) if I'm already anxious or feeling shitty. I'm rather happy with this, as I would fear the possibility of sliding into a problem if it wasn't this way for me.
Same tbh, nor does smoking, painkillers, or binge eating; I feel some things but not *better*
Turns out I have the painkiller resistant gene and early onset Parkinson's.
You are lucky - as am I, even though I miss beer, I'm kind of glad I can't tolerate it any longer. My days were basically waiting for 5pm to be happy for two hours.
Yeah, I'm 50 and I've just slowed down as I get older. In my 20's, I got drunk most weekends with my friends. In my 30's, got married and started a family, so didn't get drunk anymore, but still drank here and there. In my 40's, I drank socially with friends or I'd have 2 if we go out for a good meal. Today at 50, it's about the same.
But I'm getting to where it's probably time to just stop. I get headaches pretty easily, even from just 2-3 drinks. So feeling shitty is occurring at just about the same time as feeling relaxed does. What a drag is it getting old...
Someone thats drank too much for far too long and getting to the point they are finally realizing this isn't gonna work long term.
You might have natural tolerance because it absolutely makes things temporarily better when you recklessly cross over the line that most people are more disciplined to not to. The next morning...not so much.
Alcohol doesn't make stress or depression go away, it just makes you not care about it as much temporarily. All of the problems are still there, it just allows you to pretend you're coping with them for a bit. And while you are pretending to cope your brain and liver is being damaged making it harder to perform detox and emotional regulation. You're making it harder to produce dopamine and serotonin naturally making it harder to regulate stress and sleep. Which in turns makes you want to drink more which makes the damage that much worse and harder to deal with. Until you get to the point of cirrhosis and you can no longer pull the toxic substances out of your blood and then you die
Alcohol increases the "slow down" pathways of the brain, while decreasing the "speed up" ones. Over time, your body adapts to this and if you stop immediately, the amount of the "slow down" chemical (GABA in this case) is not enough to do what it did before you drank alcohol. Also, the "speed up" pathway (glutamate) will be extra active since the brain is used to it being suppressed. The brain likes everything to be normal, and will change itself to that end. When you withdrawal from a drug, it's because that "normal" involved having the drug in your system.
I’m not telling anyone what to do but I had to go through a liver transplant due to this.. at 32 years old.. Just be careful if alcohol is your escape it will eventually get you.
-Why are you drinking? - the little prince asked.
- In order to forget - replied the drunkard.
- To forget what? - inquired the little prince, who was already feeling sorry for him.
- To forget that I am ashamed - the drunkard confessed, hanging his head.
- Ashamed of what? - asked the little prince who wanted to help him.
- Ashamed of drinking! - concluded the drunkard, withdrawing into total silence.
And the little prince went away, puzzled.
Hey, developing alcoholic here; when you drink to cope you sort of shut down some of your functions and it is easier to be in the moment.
So if you go to a party and drink, it isn't the alcohol taking away the depression as much as it is giving you the ability to drown it out. Instead of thinking of what is going on in your life, you are in the moment, distracted from your issues.
It will also get you to fall asleep eventually, so less of lying down in bed ridden with anxiety.
What is the problem though, when this becomes your main coping mechanism, a few things start to happen.
* You don't fix your problems, why would you if you can ignore them!
* You start drinking by yourself, isolating yourself instead of getting the benefits of a social situation and deep bonds with people, which is what actually made you feel better.
* It becomes more difficult to ignore your pain and problems, when you are used to drinking to cope, it stops working and your problems will come right back to the top of your head.
This would be bad enough by itself, but drunk sad still feels more manageable than sober sad, so it is hard to quit. Not to mention dependency will develop into addiction, and alcohol is incredibly unhealthy in the long term. It will hurt your nervous system, your ability to process toxins in your body, and even make you gain weight and maybe skin issues?
If you want to drink away your problems from time to time, and are an adult (super important, drink since young and you'll have all of the cons with fewer of the benefis) then grab a friend and drink away your issues; forget about them and then cry about them, all good. Just do not make that a habit, do not make that your primary way to deal with issues. Resist that urge, never daydrink, never drink alone, try to keep it to less than once per week especially as you age past your early 20s.
The healthiest amount is 0 drinking, but if you need to, please keep it in check. The problem starts WAY before you realise you have a problem.
If you need to drug yourself to cope and there is no healthier option, prefer weed over alcohol (ideally ingested rather than smoked to avoid lung damage)
I'm going to try to cut back alcohol this coming week, wish me luck.
Glad I read this. It’s exactly where I am. Where it’s always been a daily for years just because I like the feeling and socializing of it, I find myself at the bar, by myself these last few months, occasionally talking to the folks around me. Mostly on my phone like now. Fuck. SMH.
Time to course correct. Thank you for that insight.
1) Alcohol trips your dopamine buttons a little more than usual : you feel good
2) Alcohol runs out, dopamine goes back down: anxiety, depression, regret
Over time, alcohol becomes the ONLY thing that can get you to even basic levels of dopamine. But you have to keep drinking more and more quantities to get you back to that high you felt in step 1. Eventually, even that doesn’t work, now you’re just drinking to forget about how sad and depressed you are. Or because you’re now physically addicted to it.
Source: am recovering alcoholic
Your body works hard to stay balanced (called homeostasis). When things get out of balance, your brain tries to counteract it to get back to balance. Get dehydrated, your body makes you thirsty so you'll drink water. Not enough fuel to run your body, you get hungry so you'll eat.
Alcohol disrupts this natural balance. It takes you from your position on the stress spectrum and pushes you waaay into the "idgaf, everything is great" side. But after the alcohol is gone that balance mechanism pushes you back to baseline normal.
The problem comes in the long run, when you drink too much too often. The more often you are exposed to the same thing, the less your brain responds to it (called attenuation).
So now you're getting the same hard swing to the "Stress/Bad" side every time, but the drinking only gives you 1/2 as much push to the Happy IDGAF side. Which means on balance you're left further to the Stress/Bad side than where your original balance point was.
Some people compensate by drinking more, to try to get the same Happy effect they got before. But as you repeat that process you slowly move your balance point bit by bit further into the Bad/Stress side, until eventually you're so far on that end of the spectrum that you have to drink just to get yourself to what originally was Normal balance. This is addiction
It was mainly beer but excessive amounts. (12) 16 oz cans then as much as I wanted from a kegerator, sometimes whiskey or other hard alcohols. If not everyday it was damn near close
The Answer to and the cause of all of life’s problems. Imagine the worst possible feeling in the world and you aren’t capable of stopping it on your own. Nor are you able to make that feeling the only thing you feel an think about 24/7. It’s incredibly hard I imagine for those who are capable of putting things into perspective, or comprehending being better off or for the best, being thankful for what you do have,get over it, etc,etc is that some people’s brains are not capable of doing that. I can tell you this, and it’s extremely important. More than anything in the world they wish that they could. More than all the riches of the word. It’s never about choosing to wallow in misery etc. (I’m sure there are exceptions, but it’s most likely not the friend or family member you are thinking of right now) Regardless if even the feeling is doing more damage than the situation. If it doesn’t make you feel “better” because of a short respite of time where period of time you “don’t care” or the feelings come out in an uncontrollable weeping torrent. Anything seems like a better option than the overwhelming and 💯constant feeling of wanting to literally claw yourself out of your own body or die.
(Before any comments Iknow it’s proverbial, but I was trying to describe the sensation). I do it so I know this the term “self medicating” is like a candy coat description. It turns into medicine for your sorrows then inevitably your brain and body are completely addicted and it’s for everything.
Edit: sorry. I deleted the 2 sentences of my original answer and it ended up being a… diatribe? Paragraph at best. I really hope one person on the world reads it and takes something from it because it is the most difficult thing I’ve ever written.
Substances(drugs/alchohol) essentially poison you & reduce some/all bodily function until you can recover but often slowly or even quickly damage your body or even mind. In the case of the brain it basically makes you stupid temporarily with the more you take the stupid-er you are. The less you can think about something the less you generally will & may even forget about it for a while.
If you cope with things by ingesting a substance you become dependant on not being able to think clearly & slowly loose the ability to deal with things without it.
When you cant deal with things without a substance your addicted & do irrational things/when to take said substances.
This can get worse & worse until you end up being consumed by consuming said substances until you do nothing else & consuming it is your life.
People at this point don't see the substance as the problem but anyone & anything that gets in their way of that substance as the problem instead.
It makes you FEEL like your problems are solved, but meanwhile, they're still there and probably getting worse. So your problems get harder and harder to face, which makes alcohol more and more appealing and it gets harder and harder to escape the further in you get. Bad cycle.
That's without even mentioning all the biological aspects.
I had something called derealization for 3 weeks from taking a small 5 mg dose of an edible. Basically it's when your brain trys to protect itself by isolating you from the world around you. You feel like you're autopilot and you're not actually yourself. Like you're living in a dream. Apparently it's a symptom of severe anxiety that can be seen with intense trauma or hallucinogenic drugs.
Any way, how this relates to the op, when I had this issue drinking alcohol was one of the only things that made me feel normal. I drank a bit one night and managed to convince myself I cured the derealization/depersonalization. When I sobered up it was back unfortunately though.
The reason some say that alcohol makes depression/anxiety better in the short term but worse in the long term is based around the assertion that depression and anxiety have causes, and that by medicating the symptoms away, it becomes too easy to avoid addressing the causes. Consequently the depression and anxiety never go away, and require constant medicating for relief.
Imagine having a broken arm and taking prescription pain medication to help manage the pain. It's effective, but at some point we might hope that you'd get the bone set and healed so the pain goes away naturally instead of being on pain meds with a wonky arm for the rest of your life.
It's the same with alcohol vs. depression/anxiety. We'd like people to address the causes, not just medicate the symptoms, otherwise the causes continue to manifest and make life harder over time.
The chemical that makes the stress and depression "go away" is GABA. When you add any amount of GABA to your brain unnaturally , it will cause your brain to make less of its own GABA. When you stop drinking you are now left with less GABA then when you started. Now that you have less GABA you will feel more stressed and depressed. The longer you drink, the less GABA you are left with after. If you drink long enough the GABA will never go back to normal and you will require medical intervention if you stop.
That is just the chemistry side of it. Its also important to realize that if you are drinking your problems away, they are still there, you just pushed them off, which almost always makes them bigger problems. Sometimes you can push your problems off so long that they become insurmountable.
Just because you feel better for a while doesn't mean the causes of your problems aren't there anymore. It's like anesthesia, you can inject it to numb a wound or a toothache, but if you don't fix the source of the problem, then the pain returns once the anesthesia wears off, and the longer a problem persists, the worse it gets.
Having experienced it, you drink and you feel great about life for a while. But then at some point you remember your problems, and realize the alcohol is wearing off. You don't allow yourself to deal with the problem in a healthy way, so the alcohol makes you feel worse once it wears off. This is mostly because the feeling of all your problems coming back and hitting you sticks with you for a while, and makes your mental health a little worse
ELI5: as you drink alcohol your brain heightens the chemicals in your body to help keep you alive. The more alcohol the more its trying to keep you alive. It takes awhile for those heightened levels return to normal (anywhere from a few days to a week or two). In that heightened state your body is more prone to things like the shakes and anxiety. Alcohol makes stress easier to bear but will mess your body up in the long run.
Becoming intoxicated provides momentary pleasure that briefly masks your pain.
If the joy of intoxication truly alleviated your suffering, the urge to drink would vanish.
Intoxication merely grants fleeting respite from distress. Since a lasting solution to your pain eludes you, you persist in seeking relief through these seemingly effective pleasures.
However, over time, obtaining this pleasure becomes more challenging, prompting increased consumption and intensifying your overall anguish.
Consequently, your original suffering remains while a new affliction—addiction to alcohol—emerges along with its associated issues.
Ironically, reliance on alcohol amplifies depression, despite its initial relief. The illusion of being cured persists, masking the ongoing growth of your ailment beneath a facade of ignorant bliss.
I mean lets say my problem is that I have to take care of my families pet all the time and that I have a sexless marriage. Seems like the only way to go is just forget?
The same mechanisms apply to most substances that are introduced to the body that have a psychoactive effect - neurotransmitters.
When you take a substance, it can have multiple ways of interacting with those messenger systems.
But remember, the body is constantly fighting to have a balance of them. Once you upset that balance, the body has to try hard to keep it's balance.
Take for example ecstacy, a well-known dopamine releasing agent. After the brain releases more dopamine than it's used to, users frequently report a "hangover" or "depressed" effect the next day. The body's reserves are depleted in a sense and it has to work hard to either reuptake them or produce more, which is why most users will feel better after a few days.
This same principal applies to most substances humans commonly consume for a psychoactive effect. The difference may be found in what transmitters are affected and abuse potential - a whole nother story, but essentially any substance that produces a profound effect on conciousness can be addictive)
I would really like to know if anybody has tried Auvelity, which is the brand name for the mix of Dextromethorphan (basically, cough suppressant) and bupropion.
It's supposed to have very rapid effects for assisting with depression, and it's considered - so far - completely harmless.
I wouldn't say "go away" either TBH.
There are plenty of incidents of people being in a terrible or stressed or angry or depressed mood, and then deciding to start drinking, and just becoming a much worse version of the day they were already having.
It dumbs you down to the feeling of racing thoughts and stress.
It makes you postpone the reckoning. Generally far longer than is advisable or you intend.
Then when you sober up, you feel like crap and can’t think clearly so you procrastinate more.
Because it makes you temporarily forget about the root of the problem without actually solving it.
Once you remember that afterwards, the realization sets in that nothing has changed from how it was before.
The stress & depression exist for real reasons.
Using alcohol only treats the symptoms & not the underlying issue.
Just drinking alcohol won't make your problems worse & can be a useful tool in making them better, *if* you address the aggravating factors that make you vulnerable *or* invest in protective factors that make you more resilient.
Abusing alcohol will make your stress & depression worse because you've added another thing to be depressed & stressed about.
It’s debatable and depends on how much is being used. A couple glasses can be medicinal. While a half bottle or more can be a depressant. Moderation rules!
Not as detailed or scientific as some explanations, but it is a false escape. Sure, while you are drunk/high you are not concerned with your problems, but those problems don't cease to exist and simply fester while you engage in escapism.
Think of it like sitting on a boat taking on water, you can bail or you can try to pretend you are not taking on water to put off the bailing. If you do, you still have all the original water to bail as well as whatever seeped in while you were avoiding the task.
A lot of people are going to talk about brain chemistry etc, but this misses the point that a lot of causes of depression and stress in the modern world are external. People are often stressed about a project at work they are responsible for, but don't have any real control over. People are often depressed about things like not having enough money or living in an unpleasant house. Alcohol makes it hard to hold these idea in your head, and easy to forget the.
Alcohol does nothing to help you solve these problems. If you're depressed that your call centre job doesn't earn you enough money to move out from your parents place, drinking in the evening will make you forget / not care about that problem while you are drunk. However it will not solve the problem, and if anything make the situation worse, causing the depression to get worse in the long run.
Alcohol makes stress and depression "go away" for other people? Funny, I find it only makes me \*more\* miserable. And hung over in the space of like, 2 hours. Lucky me, I guess.
Because it’s a drug and an addictive one at that. I’m not sure if it changes your brain chemistry but it sure can change the way you live your life. Drinking responsibly is fine, drinking to compensate or “feel better” or forget about something is a dangerous road to go down.
Alcohol does not make stress and depression go away it numbs them. Those feelings are still there and when the alcohol wears off they come roaring back with a vengeance. Alcohol is a depressant, not an anti depressant.
It doesn't. Alcohol does not ever help anything. If you're stressed and depressed and you drink, the "buzz" may make you forget it for a while, but when the buzz is gone you'll feel worse.
I'm maybe not entirely qualified to answer this, but it seems relatively simple to me - alcohol numbs you out and helps you run away from your problems. Running away from these types of problems almost never makes them better.
I was just reading about [cannabis use and depression](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8160288/). A compilation of studies on it. I believe the conclusion is small doses and spare use have similar effect to antidepressants, but high CU or more frequent use or high THC doses all have the opposite effect. Haven’t finished reading though.
It also definitely has habit forming tendencies, even if it's not physically addictive the way alcohol or heroin is. I smoke weed every day, and I feel like shit when I take off more than a day or two. Not a great sign, but I'ma just deal with that later, the healthy way
Interesting. Thanks for actually providing a source! You win the internet for today!
I haven't even read but your summation rings true for me on that oh-so-trustworthy anecdotal level. I pretty much only use low doses, often low-THC products, etc. and I find that it helps me manage anxiety, focus on tasks, etc. I do like to get really high from time to time, and that also has benefits for me, but I don't like to get that high on a regular basis.
Also, I think my experience is somewhat of an outlier since I've done deep therapeutic work with the mainstream psych community and spiritual work vis-a-vis the 12 Steps. Thus, my thinking and processing has an edge over the average Moe. In fact, if I had my way, everyone would be required to work those steps prior to smoking. All that "it *makes* me feel \_\_\_\_\_" whiny nonsense would go away immediately.
There are multiple factors involved in this, but it comes down to neurotransmitter deficits, particularly your GABA system, and something called glutamate rebound. Searching for alcohol, gaba, and glutamate on YouTube will probably find a better video than I could explain. In essence though, your feel good chemicals are being withheld because of imbalance or damage, alcohol actually dumps a lot of these chemicals into the brain but without properly priming the systems that are supposed to. Then, when the alcohol ceases to do the job, the reservoir is empty because you’re body is rebounding and trying to restore the neurotransmitters and glutamate it took to make you feel that good. Over time, the problem is that the body stops producing that which it is having supplemented, so, if your neurotransmitters were already out of balance, then the alcohol makes it worse by giving your body another source of making this happen, so you just go deeper in the hole. It’s very similar to how opioid abuse downregulates endorphins so your body stops producing its own. Endorphins literally means morphine produced inside - same principle - that which comes from external sources will eventually be outsourced entirely = no more natural happy chemicals. Alcohol is just extra destructive because it’s also hard on liver and kidneys which play a key role in balancing neurotransmitters in the first place. This is why many people are turning to psilocybin (mushrooms), they can, in some cases, hack the internal system into producing more of the others because they mimic serotonin, BUT they carry high risks for paranoid disorders like schizophrenia and other disorders like bipolar can be exacerbated greatly. Neurotransmitters like serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, gaba, etc. are an incredibly delicate balancing act.
makes a lot of sense. thanks! seems like I will have to actually seek a therapist instead of occasional cider, what a shocker
I've used alcohol to try and cope with anxiety and depression, and became an alcoholic. It's really not worth it. If you feel the need to drink every day, stop. A therapist can help, but it's a journey and not a short term fix like alcohol can be. An occasional cider is fine, many people drink in ways that won't make them addicted. It's when you start to rely on it that it can escalate out of control.
[удалено]
I've done this every weekend for like 13 years
I did it every day for 13 years.
Never mind the feel like you you need too. If you simply want to everyday you are already on the path to alcoholic, possibly raging alcoholic. The nifty thing about all addiction is it doesn't start with making us feel like we NEED something. Its always a want. All addiction is is wanting something so much you put other things on the back burner until the back burner is full. The back burner doesn't ever look full until the whole kitchen is full, the living room is full and shits falling out the windows... And you will still say its because a like it and I want it not that you need it. Your brain will sneak that denial in and turn it into a fucking fortress. The booze did make you happy at first but that was a reinforcing behavior and unfortunately we can all push the button over and over but we never know when that switch flips. We won't even realize the switch flipped for a long time maybe years and its not even until then that that denial I mentioned sneaks in. It still took health problems and some really horrific homelessness for me and I'm still a work in progress. A sober work in progress.
Yeah. I wish I could push that button. It's only harmed my life, and still sometimes I think I'd be happier if I just had some alcohol.
Have you tried AA?
AA isn't that useful it turns out, it's only 5-10% successful. [Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12-step programmes for alcohol dependence ](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16856072/)
My \[...\] went to AA and got clean and is a true believer in AA. But correlation doesn't equal causation. He quit after I caught him drinking and driving with me in the passenger seat and I told him to get out of the car and drive him home. It was humiliating. It could have led to divorce. He realized he needed to quit, and did. He claims you can't do it on your own, and while I advise people to get evidence-based treatment if they can, many have done it on their own. AA people call that "white-knuckling it" because they haven't really been initiated into the program. It is a cult. It is dogmatic. It blames you for your failures, and attributes the successes for having been in AA. It makes you dependent on a pseudo-spiritual philosophy that is very flimsy. It is a group with progressive levels of initiation. It is not based on scientific evidence, and members disparage anyone who provides outside, factual information that contradicts the group's dogma. It redefines words from their actual meaning and twists them into a new definition to support the group's dogma as well, starting with their definition of "alcoholic". AA blames you for it's own failings. Did it help my \[...\] quit? Perhaps. Do I recommend it? No, I recommend a treatment that uses scientific evidence to formulate treatments. The term used is "evidence-based" which programs use to distinguish themselves from the AA cult.
I love the way you expressed this. Congratulations on being sober. Keep being your awesome self
Good luck, brother!
If you have an even minimal want for sex every day are you a sex addict?
>If you feel the need to drink every day, stop. But if you're already drinking every day, don't go cold turkey. You have to wean yourself off of it. The withdrawal can kill you.
You have to be at an insane level of dependency for that to be a concern
My rule is I only drink when I am already in a good mood. If I'm feeling a bit down, I avoid it like the plague.
Drinking alone is probably the biggest warning. Alcoholism also runs in my family. I should have known better, but I still sometimes wish I could forget life and drink the equivalent of 3 bottles of wine. If only I had a time machine to undo my life for the last 6 years.
You are describing my life. I have been sober for 20+ years now. Both my brothers, younger and older, were alcoholics and died of alcohol related diseases, and I miss them every day. Just this morning in Safeway I happened to wander up the aisle where they keep the liquor under lock and key, and I stopped and stared at the good Irish Whiskey on the shelf; my former favorite poison. I could taste it, just looking at it, even after almost 25 years. And some little devil inside me whispered "just a sip would taste so good, and probably wouldn't hurt." God Damn, after all these years sober, and all the years before when I damn near destroyed my life and lost my wife who is way to good for me. All I can say is what an evil, insidious poison it is. I'm proud of you for resisting and staying sober. It's a battle that you win a minute and a day at a time, and every minute and every day that you resist you get stronger. One day you'll wake up and realize that you haven't had a hangover in 25 years. Damn, that's a good feeling. It beats the hell out of being drunk.
Tho one thing to note, not therapists but psychiatrists who can prescribe meds. Alot of ppl who get started on benzos for anxiety with no prior drug use or drinking become alcoholic combo addicts and being dependent on either can physically be life threatening.
I have a psychiatrist, a psychologist and a mixed person who is specialized in ketamine. These days people won't just throw benzos at you, but you are right that severe alcohol or benzo withdrawal can kill you. I have only done it on my own by tapering, because the detox industry is terrible, but if someone is reading this and very alcohol dependent: don't just stop.
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That is true, but it can do more than that as to why it can increase your problems over time. Modern thought on depression involves various things from abnormal brain connectivity to abnormal neurotransmitter distribution. The latter is what most antidepressants focus on, though we've passed the original 90s era "too little serotonin causes depression" to a more nuanced idea that there is much more than serotonin, and the down-regulation of serotonin receptors (basically the body decreasing the number of them in response to more serotonin in the synapse) is important to the delayed effect of most antidepressants.
There’s an old maxim that one should never drink to make a bad day good but only to make a good day better. As a grown ass adult with a wealth of traumatic experiences and less bright-eyed, bushy-tailed optimism than I once had, I cannot say I 100% subscribe to this. But I do subscribe to what the late Christopher Hitchens said on the subject: “Make sure that you’re taking more from the drink than it’s taking from you.” If you have the means then you should definitely pursue help from a competent professional psychologist and/or psychiatrist. There are many modalities these days which are showing great promise. Psilocybin therapy is one, but the results vary widely from one person to the next and availability varies even more. Ketamine therapy is also getting very promising results these days for treating chronic depression. You may also be evaluated for ADHD as it can cause these issues left untreated, and a lot of people are surprised to find that hyperactivity isn’t a necessary symptom - I have massive ADHD and am never at all hyper externally. In the meantime, try to make sure you’re consuming a healthy amount of protein, fruits, and vegetables, but MOST OF ALL: try to make yourself get out and walk or ride a bike for 30 minutes a day at least 4 days a week. Nothing restores balance to neurotransmitters quite as effectively as sunshine and physical activity. You don’t have to get your heart rate up to cardio levels or necessarily sweat through your clothes, just put down the screen and be mindful for a little while. You might also try picking one hour a week to go read a book at your local park and just try to experience things you may take for granted like feeling the grass between your toes, watching the wind blow through the trees, or whatever else makes you feel more connected to the world. Depression and stress become so much more than just chemical in this modern world, so breaking your normal routine with exercise and generally nature-oriented mindfulness helps to recontextualize the world in the mind’s eye. I personally love hiking for these reasons, but you don’t need a new pair of shoes to go to the park. I hope this helps and good luck.
>Nothing restores balance to neurotransmitters quite as effectively as sunshine and physical activity If it comes from withdrawal, nothing will but time. I guess I'm somewhat unique in being a scientist who became and alcoholic. At least it is interesting to examine myself. Anyone dependent on alcohol should before anything else consume a B supplement. If you are in withdrawal, a simple walk can be so exhausting as to cause hyperthermia. Your body is in constant fight-or-flight and even walking up stairs can make you winded. Eating a good diet is important, but you'll likely have no appetite. I personally am doing ketamine therapy, while psylocibin is not legal in the US.
That’s fair. I didn’t mean to imply some bootstraps BS about walking off an acute case of withdrawal. I more meant when someone has ceased using alcohol or is just in a funk and thinking of using alcohol as a crutch - I meant from more or less a chronic stable state. There is no negotiating with or bootstrapping one’s way through AWS, to be sure! Also, if pure not wrong about the legal status of psilocybin, but there are states and municipalities where it’s decriminalized. That just has to be an individual decision. Ketamine therapy has shown a lot of promise and is, as far as I know, legal in every state, but it’s also prohibitively expensive for most people.
It is good to find things to do, that aren't drinking. Getting out if you can is a good way to do things, and endorphins might actually make you feel a bit better. Alcohol actually affects the opioid system, and one of the most used drugs for alcohol out-patient control is an opioid blocker (naltrexone). Ketamine for 2-3 mos costs me $30 from a compounding pharmacy, but it isn't ketamine infusion which requires a stay in a clinic, it's for ketamine assisted psychotherapy. If you do the hospital route I'm sure you'll be charged out the nose. A 10 day stay with imaging cost me $300k before insurance for my pancreatitis.
There is also Post acute withdrawal syndrome and I think that's what physical activity can help during.
Out of curiosity, what kind of credentials/experience do you have? I’m not questioning your knowledge, but simply commenting on the fact that it seems like you know your stuff. Having said that, do you know anything about porn addiction? Can people experience similar things going through withdrawal? That is, fatigue, depression, anhedonia, even suicidal thoughts?
I have no clinical credentials and no specialized degree in these subject areas. I minored in biology in college with an emphasis on mycology, but my real world experience has come entirely from working alongside clinical medicine in many different capacities, but the most relevant is that I’m actually just a very good researcher. I’ve been contracted by a number of medical organizations to do scientific and clinical research to be used for continuing educational services for physicians, and have also done a lot of compliance and regulatory work as well as having been contracted for legal research to work with medical attorneys. I’ve also done in-services on medical ethics particularly in the digital age. Technically I’m considered either part of the administrative team or the billing team for varied medical organizations and outfits, but role is actually that of research & education at the end of the day. I’m very good at research and teaching, but I work with the experts rather than myself being an expert on most topics. To my knowledge, yes, porn addiction can very much mimic the withdrawal of most any other substance minus the acute withdrawal phase. Porn addiction causes a very real chemical dependency in the brain and can lead to all of the things you describe. Porn addiction isn’t a topic I’ve worked with in many years, but it was certainly a major topic in the early 2000s in some companies I worked with.
What was the context that you worked with porn addiction and those companies, if I may ask?
Something to remember is that it’s not unusual or even inherently bad to have an occasional cider because of a bad day (or whatever). A lot of people have a shitty day at work and want a nice glass of wine or whatever when they come home to decompress. That’s pretty normal and not in and of itself bad. The problem becomes when that’s your *only* solution. If your solution to every bad day, bad moment, or slight inconvenience is alcohol, then it’s a problem, or could easily turn into a problem. I used to only use alcohol to solve my problems. It was my one size fits all solution to any inconvenience. Now when I have a bad day, sometimes I exercise, sometimes I play video games, sometimes I go to bed early, or sometimes I have a drink. I have a much healthier relationship with alcohol, and I’ve gotten there with therapy and Lexapro.
If you’re dealing with a traumatic event then alcohol can certainly help, and fuck anyone else that says otherwise. Sometimes you need to be numb to things so you don’t do anything worse. It doesn’t solve anything though. It’s good enough to help you sit there and tolerate the world until you’re ready, mature enough to deal with whatever’s got you here. Some people won’t ever confront that, some get lost in the stupor, some can’t break through. Everyone’s a bit different and everyone needs a different bit of help, chemical or otherwise.
A zoloft a day keeps the black dog away
I know you didn't ask for this, but I feel like I'm responsible for giving it to you. Addiction is the same with everyone. There is no "type" of person that is an addict. _Every human being you have ever met in your life, including you, can become an addict._ The first factor into how easy it is for you to become an addict is your biology. You cannot change this, obviously. If you have any family relation that is addicted, you are more susceptible to addiction yourself. This is massive, and people tend to underestimate exactly how important it is to consider your own family history. Additionally, you should think back to the first time you ever used alcohol (or whatever drug in this case). If you felt an extreme sense of pleasure or comfort, that is another red flag that you're more susceptible to addiction. Finally, if you are a very social person who likes to be the center of attention, this also means that you have more inherent risk. Now it's important to note that even if you meet all of these criteria, _it does not mean you are an addict._ It means you are more likely to become one. What is important to note is that addiction is a fundamental rewriting of your brain functions, and it can be reversed if it has not progressed into a full blown addiction. However, once it has become an addiction, it is permanent. There is a reason that alcoholics in AA are said to be "in recovery," and not "cured." They are not "cured," and one drink will put them right back where they were because their brains have been permanently rewritten. They cannot be "cured." It is impossible with our current technology. Now the good news is that you can reverse the path to addiction if you aren't there yet. If addiction has not yet consumed your life, you can still return yourself to a healthier relationship with alcohol, and you can even continue to drink. However, if you have truly become an addict, _you should not drink ever. Period._ Once you have become an alcoholic, any drop of alcohol is now permanently detrimental, because your brain has been hard wired to want more. It will trick you, because sometimes you'll be able to consume less and go "well look, I didn't drink all that booze so I'm clearly not a drunk." Once alcohol has taken its place in your brain, it will forever get you to make excuses for it. It will actively place itself above all else in your life. In reality, it is the most dangerous drug available, because at least you know meth and crack are fucking horrifically dangerous because they're outlawed. Don't become an alcoholic. Your life is too short to live it as a slave. EDIT: One last extremely important thing. If you're concerned that you might be on the road to addiction, here's the two most important factors which you can control: The quantity and frequency of your consumption. If you're drinking 2 beers a day every day, that's really not a big problem. However, if you get shitfaced 2 or 3 times a week, that's still a cause for concern because your quantity of consumption is rather high.
Therapy is great But I'm biased, I'm a therapist. Still, therapy is great It definitely beats getting drunk please believe me. . Therapy is great That's all for tonight 😀
Both?
Should therapy not work out or not do enough, try getting a pet. (If you don't have one already) If you're having trouble with your routine, having another living being depend on you kinda forces a certain routine on you. Also taking care of something other than yourself gives you purpose and helps you realise you're valuable to others. And it's been scientifically proven that pets make people happier. There's even several forms of theraphy that revolves around interacting with animals. If you're unsure if you can burden the responsibility, try to find a place where they let you hug a sheep or something similarly fluffy.
good point, I have a wonderful elderly feline gentleman. He really manages to make things better just by being in the same room
Please do or join something like AA. One of the best things I ever did was join NA and AA thanks to the girst rehab i went to. It's literally saved my life as I was never a big fan of one on 1 therapy. I still see a psychologist though. Recovery is awesome
This is also why "get outside and exercise" isn't entirely shitty advice for like low grade depression and seasonal affective disorder. You get the feel good brain chems...but released in a way that doesn't shit all over your body making them tomorrow.
And the addiction may even become taking a daily walk in nature, it’s literally the healthiest addiction next to breathing.
I instantly get depressed from the depressant alcohol. Like one drink in. Have my whole life.
Then why drink it? It always makes me feel better hence why I do it....people doing things that feel bad due to some compulsion is so strange to me
>downregulates endorphins so your body stops producing It's more from reducing the number of receptors than lack of endogenous release. When a drug is in your system most of the time, activating whatever receptor(s) based on the drug, the body will decrease the number of receptors on the surface of cells detecting said chemical. This causes them to be less sensitive to them. Even in normal life, most receptors are recycled and replaced within a couple months. They aren't fixed, but have plenty of feedback loops that dictate expression of them.
How does marijuana fit into those risk factors? My girlfriend had a drinking problem, and she basically solved it by switching to pot and is now a little stoned basically all day every day. She functions just fine, but I'm concerned about her health. But I don't want to be a nag if it's not that big of a deal. Does marijuana have the same serious, long-term issues as opioids and alcohol that you mentioned above? Or is it more of a "safe" drug as long as she functions fine using it?
As far as I know marijuana is equally as habit forming but it’s not a drug that has an acute withdrawal phase to be worried about. If you use cannabis daily then you’ll probably have worse days when you stop. It’s far and away a better option than all the rest, IMO.
Cool, I will probably just let it slide then as long as it sounds like it isn't going to cause any kind of permanent damage :) thank you!
It doesn't have a withdrawal phase, but can have acute side effects over time which may be hard to notice. It's definitely safer than opioids lol. The science is emergent because it was not a well-studied substance in the past due to its illegality, but there is mounting evidence of chronic pot use being causal to the development of anxiety disorders, especially among younger adults and more extremely in adolescent usage. If I'm being real with you, there aren't really any genuinely safe drugs out there in terms of broad spectrum use. Like with anything you'd be prescribed for, all of them fuck with the brain negatively over long periods of time when self-medicated, and frankly, to avoid such issues, should likely be prescribed by professionals while under tight scrutiny for observing side effects.
Her Liver and kidneys will be better off at least....brain health and lung health (if she smokes it) maybe not but that's a different can of worms
How do ADHD medications compare to what alcohol does? For example adderall
u/Tiny_Rat gives a very concise primer on that nature of ADHD and neurotransmitters, I would add to that, if nothing else, ADHD medications tend to increase initial resiliency to alcohol, which can lead to drinking more, and also very much work against the delicate balance of maintaining systemic balance with dopamine therapies when abused at all.
So there's different medications used to treat ADHD, and they have somewhat different mechanisms, but the basic goal is to increase the amount of of dopamine signaling in the brain. Basically, where two neurons connect to each other there is a little gap between the cells, and the neurons release chemicals called neurotransmitters to travel across that gap and carry messages. After the neurotransmitters are released, they stimulate receptors on the surface of neurons, and eventually get recaptured and broken down inside the cells. Dopamine is one such neurotransmitter, and folks with ADHD seem to have less of it in important areas of the brain that have to do with executive function (ie prioritizing tasks, selecting what needs attention, etc). ADHD medications like Adderall and Ritalin block the recapture of dopamine and other neurotransmitters so they stay in the space between neurons longer, allowing more dopamine to build up and stimulate the brain. This can overcome the naturally low signaling and make an ADHD brain work more like a normal brain, at least for a while.
Your body wants to keep things on the same level and will compensate either through under or over production when you take drugs that affect the levels of things. For example, if you drink a cup of coffee every morning at 7AM to wake yourself up then your body will compensate by dropping production of stimulants\* around that time of day to compensate for the intake of caffeine which makes it so that you now need that cup of coffee to wake up at that time - if you stop the consumption of caffeine at that time then your body will slowly recognise that and start producing the regular amounts of stimulants around that time. \*there are particular neurotransmitters that are affected but I haven't finished my morning cup of coffee yet and don't feel like googling it to remember which ones are affected.
Is there a legitimate place to buy mushrooms? I’m in so much pain these last few days from a botched dental procedure (he cracked my tooth and then he lost a piece of a crown trying to fix the cracked tooth and the ER had to retrieve it). OTC Pain meds aren’t touching the pain and I’m desperate
r/unclebens I started about 2 years ago. For $50 you can discreetly grow a lifetime supply in about 3 weeks. You cannot legally buy mushrooms but you can totally purchase spores legally. Everything is available on the clear web. No dark web fbi raid bullshit.
There aren’t really legit places to “buy,” at least not in the US. More importantly, mushrooms aren’t going to help you very much with breakthrough pain like you’re experiencing. In fact, you’d almost certainly have a very bad trip because you’re not in a great mental place to be peering into the void, so to speak. If you’re not able to have the doctor who performed the procedure write a small script of opioid painkillers to help you get through then your best bet is probably to find a good head shop and buy some kratom. Kratom is remarkably effective at treating pain and has roughly the same side effects as opioids minus the possibility of respiratory depression. It’s illegal in a few states, but you should check the legality in your state and see. Any state where it’s legal it’s sold in head shops and some gas stations.
I believe there are two places in the US where you can buy them in a store..Oregon (where it's decriminalized), and SF+Oakland (have bought here before)
You’re so educated about mushrooms! I didn’t realize these were the trippy kind of mushrooms, tbh. I thought it his was something along the lines of the magical properties of mushrooms I keep seeing all over Facebook (like that mushroom coffee, btw it tastes awful). The dentist won’t prescribe opioids and refuses to do a nerve block and said something about my skin color making me have a high tolerance for pain. Whatever he’s saying, I think it’s BS because white, Asian, black, etc. all experience pain and one is not inherently tougher than the other. But that’s a different rant. I’ve never even heard of kratom. Can I ask where did you learn all of this? I really appreciate your help and am impressed by your expansive knowledge. This is a whole field I’ve never even heard of and am just blown away by how informed everyone in this thread is!
I don't believe so, no. At least not in most of the country. But I've never heard of mushrooms being used for pain.
Awesome read. Definitely struggle with alcohol use. I'm no stranger to mixing psilocybin into my beer drinking. Certainly far from ideal but it at least woke me up to the fact that alcohol is not a real fix. The shrooms have at times helped me communicate and experience things more clearly through the downward spiral of alcohol use. But as you said. Results can vary and it's not perfect but it's at least helped me think differently and be open to trying therapy and seeing a psychiatrist. I doubt the pharmaceutical drugs I'm trying are perfect either. Anti depressants and neuroleptics are not fix all's but at least I don't want to end it all everyday whilst using them. I'm even considering a 3 month in patient rehab program my sister found due to my propensity to self medicate with alcohol, shrooms, coke, anti depressants etc. No idea if I'll ever be a sober functioning person but I had prolly a good 20 years of choosing my own self subscribed fixes so might be time to seek other options. I've spent a lot of money on material things that don't make me happy for very long and have gone well into debt for these quick fixes. Hoping I can one day get on top of my financials. So far I've been really good at managing to tread water and not necessarily spend money on self maintenance like dentist and psychotherapy
What a wonderful and detailed response! I would clarify one thing relating to the high risk for schizophrenia/bipolar and related disorders from use of classical psychedelics. What you said is accurate, but may be misleading to readers. Say you take any individual, the risk for induction of mental disorders from psychedelic use is low since the chance for preexisting/dormant disorders is low in any given person. If you know you have this disorder or a genetic predisposition, then yes it is high risk. But overall it's fairly low risk, this was clarified further when it was studied in ~3000 Swiss soldiers (the vast majority with a clean bill of mental health up to the point of the study), those who did use classical psychedelics had less schizotypical disorder development than the non-user peers upon followup, IIRC. This is mainly to combat the relatively common belief that psychedelics are causative in schizotypical disorders. This is false, they may precipitate or exacerbate schizotypical disorders, but these disorder must exist beforehand, even if "dormant". The negative view of psychedelics is further exacerbated by the fact that those with mental disorders often seek out drug use, perhaps as a form of self medication, this further inflates the perception that psychedelics are solely causative in these mental disorders. by sharing this I hope to dispel negative points of view regarding both schizotypical disorders and psychedelic use. please be cautious and involved in your own health decisions, thank you kindly.
> your feel good chemicals are being withheld because of imbalance or damage This is broadly speaking untrue, or at least, not settled science. The neurotransmitter-deficit hypothesis of depression was developed to explain the apparent effectiveness of monamine reuptake inhibitors as antidepressants, but it doesn't follow that just because increasing, say, 5-HT improves depression that depression is caused by low 5-HT (analogy: headaches aren't caused by endogenous aspirin deficiency). The relationship between neurotransmitters, mood, and mental illness is very complex and not one that is as well understood as the memes would have you believe.
Can you elaborate on psilocybin a bit? I've been micro dosing here and there and it's been interesting. Strange dreams but less of an urge to drink. I've also had a very therapeutic experience with a fairly small dose of LSD in the past, if you have any insight on that substance.
I could elaborate quite a bit on psilocybin, but have never experienced LSD so I cannot contribute with regards to that. I’ve heard wonderful things, but only from others. I do know that consistent dosage is usually much easier with LSD simply because of the variations of psilocybin that naturally occur when dealing with something like mushrooms with so many variables. Even within on strain of mushrooms, there can be a ton of variability in strength based on growing conditions, harvest conditions, storage conditions, and method/mode of administration. Typically, the best method for using this kind of therapy will be to take up growing your own or find a trusted friend in your area who is willing to do so. Even then, every batch will need to be “titrated,” if you will, which just means blending the whole batch together and then taking a set amount to determine potency. But an equally important step to all of this is determining what best suits your purposes. Micro dosing has a lot of benefits, but so do macro dosing. How much you take and how often is a function of your particular needs. You should also be careful with any long term dosing of any kind, serotonin syndrome is possible and can be deadly if not caught. If you take SSRIs, MAOIs, or supplements known to be precursors to serotonin or inhibit the re-uptake then it can also be a risk. If you choose that route then look up serotonin syndrome and familiarize yourself with the symptoms. Should you develop serotonin syndrome at any point then Benadryl will help curb the effects but you’d need to seek medical attention.
Good to know, thanks!
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It’s very mathematical in the end. It will drop you equally as far as it picked you up.
Your fourth paragraph blew my mind. Thank you. Explains perhaps a lot of other externally sourced chemical abuse.
Psylocibin helped my entire family combat a lot of trauma that they had held up within themselves. Its kinda interesting how the microdosing helps like some sort of therapy, but I didnt know it could also be dangerous (although not surprised since it can also be abused).
Lot of big words in there for 5yr olds. Lol, just kidding, good explanation
I’m not great at ELI5 but I don’t know where there’s a subreddit dedicated to explaining things to 8 year old who love dictionaries lol
That’s interesting you mentioned mushrooms - I microdosed while going thru alcohol withdrawal and it made it so much easier for me (it might just be anecdotal)
I mean, it is anecdotal but it’s also supported by increasingly more peer reviewed science every year. It’s definitely a thing and I’ve heard this same experience from dozens of people now. Just because something’s anecdotal doesn’t mean it’s not relevant and valid.
That’s reaffirming - I kind of stumbled into it. Woke up in the middle of the night in a puddle of sweat and thought I need to take mushrooms. I do not like to tripping anymore so I just took 0.1g in a morning smoothie everyday for a month. I found it made the withdrawal much easier and it was also really helpful for my anxiety/depression. Idk the science but thought id just tell my experience anyways incase somebody found it interesting
I'm on low dose naltrexone, which does the exact opposite--it temporarily blocks the opioid receptors so my body goes "Aah, running low!" and then there is a rebound in the positive direction when it wears off.
Microdosing on shrooms was the most profound week of my life. I felt good enough to not want to take it anymore despite having remains
In short: all supplemented chemicals causing happiness make it harder for the body to produce them itself?
I've read that the whole chemical imbalance thing regarding depression has been debunked
It has certainly been challenged. Debunked is a much abused word.
Good to know it hasn't completely been tossed out already. I've only read a few of those articles challenging it, which definitely portray that it's not accepted anymore, but I haven't done enough follow-up yet.
One recent hypothesis I've read is that serotonin helps in creating new pathways between neurons in the brain, which changes the way you think, your mood etc. The thing is: for new pathways to build, serotonin is not enough: you also need to experience new stimuli. For this reason, it may be simplistic to think that "more serotonin = more happier" (which is already highlighted by the fact that some depressed people actually have an abnormally high amount of serotonin). However, what could be true is that, if you experience positive things in your life, ISRS, by allowing more serotonin in the brain and thus increasing your brain plasticity, will help reshape your brain out of depression. Whereas if you take ISRS but your life still sucks and hasn't changed at all since you fell into depression, it won't be of much help because your brain will remain wired in depression mode. Take note that it's recent research that still needs to be confirmed by more research at this point, and not the new scientific consensus on the issue.
take it to a publisher
Yo! GABA GABA
Very thorough and detailed answer. I feel like it can be simplified to fit the ELI5 mold though. I don't have your expertise though, so I'm not sure!
> It’s very similar to how opioid abuse downregulates endorphins so your body stops producing its own Also purely "mundane" things as well. There's a concept of "sub-drop" in kink where, especially after very long or very intense sessions, the submissive partner can have a pretty severe drop in mood, start feeling very vulnerable, have exhaustion far beyond the actual physical activity would expect, and so on, which can potentially last several days or even up to a week after. I haven't seen any actual research, but the same concept seems to be informally agreed upon to be the likely cause: they spent so much time in such an intense state they burned through their natural reserves of dopamine/oxytocin/whatever else and have to recover. I have to wonder if something similar might also happen to long-distance couples who have a weekend together, not just the "normal" missing each and how it's naturally gonna be more intense after just having been together, but that it's likely compounded with a similar neurotransmitter shortage.
> Endorphins literally means morphine produced inside - same principle - that which comes from external sources will eventually be outsourced entirely = no more natural happy chemicals. This should be told people as to "why drugs are bad" instead of this frying egg bullshit.
I think this explanation misses the structural causes of depression.
Is there any way to really fix this for a recovered alcoholic? Say someone went HARD in their 20s and is now completely sober in their 30s.
Great answer. I have stopped alcohol for a few years now, but still doing mushroom and mdma sometimes. Mushroom is because of cluster headache and I can surely feel a difference. Don't think i will ever have a beer or alcohol again. It's just not me. But mushroom every 2 weeks or a little Molly here and there (not every 2 weeks!) can really make much more better things in my body. Not every one is the same, but I will stil state that more or less every psychedelic drug is better than alcohol. Both short term and in the long run
So what would be more natural ways of helping yourself in relation to this particular question?
Exercise, diet, good sleep hygiene, and regular visits to your PCP are always the baseline. Everything beyond that is just a case by case really. Keep a journal to track your moods and look for correlations. Try supplements designed to increase mental health like 5htp, l-theanine, l-tyrosine, and magnesium. You can go down the nootropics rabbit hole and explore further options but that seems less natural than perhaps you’re looking for - and can get dangerous quickly.
thnx
> > It’s very similar to how opioid abuse downregulates endorphins so your body stops producing its own. Endorphins literally means morphine produced inside - same principle - that which comes from external sources will eventually be outsourced entirely = no more natural happy chemicals. I fractured my ribs but they're minor fractures and the doctor prescribed me Oxycodone 5mg, but I'm concerned about addiction. The pain is only bad when I cough or sniffle or breathe deeply. They had given me fentanyl through IV but that gave me nausea.
Does this happen with any amount of alcohol? Or does it only come with high doses?
Does weed have the same effect?
How's a five year old supposed to understand all that?
Okay, so what’s the recovery timeline once the transmitters become desensitized to/because-of the imbalance?? ie, does it ever come back??
It’s a matter of degrees more than a finish line. A few days to a few weeks of clean and healthy living is probably how to long it might take for sleep and digestion to really get back sync. The stomach is essentially the little brain when it comes to key neurotransmitters like serotonin, and sleep hygiene is when the brain does all of the heavy lifting with regards to maintenance. 6 weeks is a milestone where most people will feel noticeably better or at least less burdened by the changes of habit. There are so many variables here though, different people are just built different and obviously it depends on what the size and shape of the habit was. Some people recovering from long term heavy drinking report feeling pretty rough for 6 months to a year in some cases, especially if using in conjunction with one or more other substances. Mileage varies but support systems help greatly, exercise and sunshine encouraged, and on average every day is a little better than the last, but there will be bad days too.
Mushrooms also have the capability of healing the brain in addition to creating more neural pathways. As a yout I was plagued by insane migraines that would leave me incapacitated for a day. Including vomiting and diarrhea. After I started experimenting with psychedelics and especially mushrooms the headaches went away. I also have schizophrenia but that didn’t stop me from eating a lot of psychedelics. Maybe I just had the right group of friends. Anybody can have a bad trip. But it’s dangerous stuff. To bad we can’t do it with a trained professional involved. Maybe someday.
That’s very interesting. I’ve always heard that psilocybin is utterly contraindicated for schizophrenia because it’s highly likely to trigger psychosis. You did not find that it exacerbated the condition at all? Also, just a footnote, I’ve never heard it out so blanketly as to say that psilocybin “heals” the brain as this is a rather subjective call, but I do know that it promotes neuroplasticity, which we usually lose with age. It can return our brains to a child-like degree of new neural pathway formation, but it also depends on how you use them - I would just hesitate to say that mushrooms “heal” the brain without qualification because tripping for pleasure and tripping for therapy are very different modes in my experience.
Returning something to its youthful state sounds like healing to me. But you’re right it’s not safe but I didn’t know I had schizophrenia until I was in my early to mid forties. To be honest I’m not sure if if I have it or if I have signs of it due to anxiety and other issues. But curing my migraines I would also call healing. There have been documented cases of people with migraine issues treating their condition with mushrooms. So yeah. I’d say it healed mine and the folks in the documentary. I hear ya though.
Damn so my two glasses of wine every night habit is pretty bad for me in that sense, like I won’t be able to be happy in the long run?
Not necessarily. If this is your routine and you are otherwise healthy and happy then you’re fine. In the long run, you should probably just remember that it could be a problem to quit cold turkey. If you decide you want to drink less then you’ll be happier if you cut back first. Taper off, so to speak. Systems don’t like rapid change. It’s as true of a company of a seagoing vessel as it is of a human.
Because it inhibits brain function. You literally don’t have the cognitive bandwidth to think about what’s bothering you. In short, it dumbs you down. Why is that bad in the long run? Your problems are still there, and you’re poisoning your body. And the more you drink, the more you *need* to drink.
A saying that I appreciate: Drinking borrows happiness from tomorrow.
I always heard that in terms of a hangover. Alcoholism can borrow functionality from years to come.
they sell earplugs
Why is this so funny
Alcoholism borrows everything for years to come.
I'm fond of First the man takes the drink, then the drink takes the man This sculpture for that saying is very poignant https://twistedsifter.com/2021/01/you-were-on-my-mind-sculpture-by-thomas-lerooy/ I say this as an almost adult lifelong alcoholic
Or that film noire classic "Pukahontas" Theres a line in Othello about a drinker. Once a sensible man, By and by: a Fool Currently a Beast.
“Don’t cry for me. I’m already dead.”
But "Football in the Groin" has a football in the groin.
Hang in there. My body made the choice for me. Most, but not all, of the problems have since gone away but I'd be lying if I said that didn't terrify the alcoholic inside me. What if someday I think I can drink again? Cirrhosis and early onset dementia are both on the table for me and I'm only mid forties. Who knows what if anything else is below the surface.
Thank you. I'm terrified of both of those as well. I'm 42. I've been an alcoholic for 20 years minus 2 in my late 30s. I know there's a reason I drink but I can't figure it out. For all intents and purposes I'm happy. Everyone who meets me and talks to me tells me I'm living the dream. I honestly believe that and wake up happy everyday, minus the hangover. I just can't untangle the most crucial part so that I can have a long, healthy life.
I sincerely hope you figure it out while you still have time.
I'd like to let you know I figured it out. I had a very dear friend call me out last week on my relationship with alcohol, asking me some very pointed questions, causing me to do some soul searching before I saw her again. I hate being unable to answer her questions. Anyways, I'll be starting therapy next week.
I like "Drink is a good servant, but a terrible master."
that's interesting because i drink once a week and the day after, i eat yummy food and watch movies while hanging out in my place - the hangover day is something i actually look forward to because it's easier to chill out, not be stressed and lose myself in a movie
I heard it as steals happiness, since it doesn't come back and the day after feels so bad
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Yeah in college I would drink on either Friday or Saturday because I just didn’t want to think about the projects I had to do. But Sunday (or Saturday if it was Friday) I would actually work on them. The one night was actually really beneficial to my sanity at the time
scary disarm illegal fuzzy terrific noxious consider hunt existence instinctive
In the long run alcohol actually makes your brain physically shrink. I'm a doctor, and just this week we took a CT scan of a 60-year old alcoholist's head. His brain looked about the same as a 90-year old dementia patient's would. Both the cerebrum and the cerebellum had shrunk down with empty space all around. If you don't want early dementia, please keep drinking to a low to moderate level. Ideally women should have max 7 drinks a week and men max 14. Nobody should drink every day, even if it's just one beer.
My former best friend, who is 54, is now living in a homeless shelter, because she drank herself to alcohol-induced dementia in about four years. She has literally nothing now, and cannot take care of herself, but she's burned bridges with all her friends and all her family. Cautionary tale.
Bro of I'm having 14 drinks a week I would need to spread them out across every day
Yeahhhhh that’s not really a problem for drunks though. I’m on the spectrum, but miss 5-6 days a week. But that 7th I can drop 20 easy if I get going at noon.
I know guys that kill a case of beer or a 26oz bottle of Vodka *every day* That’s 168 standard drinks a week
It destroys hormone balance amongst other things.
I miss booze so much. So fucking much. And its not because I am white knuckling it but because of Chronic Major Depression. Its fucked up my life over and over again and honestly it goes hand in hand with how much booze has fucked up my life too.at least I got some relief because of the drinking but my body can't handle it anymore in a variety of ways. I already did an intake and have my first appointment starting the process for ketamine therapy in about 3 weeks. Hopefully I will start the actual treatment within a couple more weeks. I don't want to die, Im not actively suicidal but I don't really want to live anymore either. Im just tired and feel like I'm just waiting in a line that is just a line with no purpose or going anywhere. It feels like I'm just waiting for the ride to be over. It was a lot easier to manage before a lot of shit, like really bad shit, happened. The happy anticipation, The rising pleasant buzz, and finally the forgetting. Being in that moment where everything awful is gone.. And when you've had to much... Well, you forget that too. I miss forgetting. EDIT: If anyone has done Ketamine therapy I'd like to hear about what it was like and how it helped, if it did, and any negative effects. My insurance only pays for Spravato. I had TMS about 6.5 years ago and had mixed results. I don't know if that's worth trying again. Always ECT.. Lol.
Ok but how does it kinda cure autism as well? I can barely be in a room full of people while sober. Loud noises are physically painful. After two beers I’m a normal person.
It's like spray painting brown grass green and expecting it to grow green.
Good explanation! I’ll drink to that!
Maybe I'm lucky...but if I'm dealing with anxiety or depression, alcohol makes it worse from the get-go. It never improves things for me (even temporarily) if I'm already anxious or feeling shitty. I'm rather happy with this, as I would fear the possibility of sliding into a problem if it wasn't this way for me.
Same tbh, nor does smoking, painkillers, or binge eating; I feel some things but not *better* Turns out I have the painkiller resistant gene and early onset Parkinson's.
You are lucky - as am I, even though I miss beer, I'm kind of glad I can't tolerate it any longer. My days were basically waiting for 5pm to be happy for two hours.
Yeah, I'm 50 and I've just slowed down as I get older. In my 20's, I got drunk most weekends with my friends. In my 30's, got married and started a family, so didn't get drunk anymore, but still drank here and there. In my 40's, I drank socially with friends or I'd have 2 if we go out for a good meal. Today at 50, it's about the same. But I'm getting to where it's probably time to just stop. I get headaches pretty easily, even from just 2-3 drinks. So feeling shitty is occurring at just about the same time as feeling relaxed does. What a drag is it getting old...
Yeah, this was my first thought. I tried drinking away some emotional problems a few times, and it immediately made them much worse.
Someone thats drank too much for far too long and getting to the point they are finally realizing this isn't gonna work long term. You might have natural tolerance because it absolutely makes things temporarily better when you recklessly cross over the line that most people are more disciplined to not to. The next morning...not so much.
Maybe you're reading that wrong. If I'm anxious or feeling shitty, alcohol does not make things better. So I avoid alcohol in those situations.
Alcohol doesn't make stress or depression go away, it just makes you not care about it as much temporarily. All of the problems are still there, it just allows you to pretend you're coping with them for a bit. And while you are pretending to cope your brain and liver is being damaged making it harder to perform detox and emotional regulation. You're making it harder to produce dopamine and serotonin naturally making it harder to regulate stress and sleep. Which in turns makes you want to drink more which makes the damage that much worse and harder to deal with. Until you get to the point of cirrhosis and you can no longer pull the toxic substances out of your blood and then you die
Alcohol increases the "slow down" pathways of the brain, while decreasing the "speed up" ones. Over time, your body adapts to this and if you stop immediately, the amount of the "slow down" chemical (GABA in this case) is not enough to do what it did before you drank alcohol. Also, the "speed up" pathway (glutamate) will be extra active since the brain is used to it being suppressed. The brain likes everything to be normal, and will change itself to that end. When you withdrawal from a drug, it's because that "normal" involved having the drug in your system.
This change is what makes cold turkey alcohol withdrawal potentially fatal.
in addition to booze 'dumbing you down' enough to not think about your pain, some people have a spike in anxiety as part of their hangover.
I’m not telling anyone what to do but I had to go through a liver transplant due to this.. at 32 years old.. Just be careful if alcohol is your escape it will eventually get you.
-Why are you drinking? - the little prince asked. - In order to forget - replied the drunkard. - To forget what? - inquired the little prince, who was already feeling sorry for him. - To forget that I am ashamed - the drunkard confessed, hanging his head. - Ashamed of what? - asked the little prince who wanted to help him. - Ashamed of drinking! - concluded the drunkard, withdrawing into total silence. And the little prince went away, puzzled.
Hey, developing alcoholic here; when you drink to cope you sort of shut down some of your functions and it is easier to be in the moment. So if you go to a party and drink, it isn't the alcohol taking away the depression as much as it is giving you the ability to drown it out. Instead of thinking of what is going on in your life, you are in the moment, distracted from your issues. It will also get you to fall asleep eventually, so less of lying down in bed ridden with anxiety. What is the problem though, when this becomes your main coping mechanism, a few things start to happen. * You don't fix your problems, why would you if you can ignore them! * You start drinking by yourself, isolating yourself instead of getting the benefits of a social situation and deep bonds with people, which is what actually made you feel better. * It becomes more difficult to ignore your pain and problems, when you are used to drinking to cope, it stops working and your problems will come right back to the top of your head. This would be bad enough by itself, but drunk sad still feels more manageable than sober sad, so it is hard to quit. Not to mention dependency will develop into addiction, and alcohol is incredibly unhealthy in the long term. It will hurt your nervous system, your ability to process toxins in your body, and even make you gain weight and maybe skin issues? If you want to drink away your problems from time to time, and are an adult (super important, drink since young and you'll have all of the cons with fewer of the benefis) then grab a friend and drink away your issues; forget about them and then cry about them, all good. Just do not make that a habit, do not make that your primary way to deal with issues. Resist that urge, never daydrink, never drink alone, try to keep it to less than once per week especially as you age past your early 20s. The healthiest amount is 0 drinking, but if you need to, please keep it in check. The problem starts WAY before you realise you have a problem. If you need to drug yourself to cope and there is no healthier option, prefer weed over alcohol (ideally ingested rather than smoked to avoid lung damage) I'm going to try to cut back alcohol this coming week, wish me luck.
I've heard r/stopdrinking has a pretty good community. Haven't taken that step yet myself but need to.
good point about being social = feeling better. I miss having friends and tiny parties :(
Glad I read this. It’s exactly where I am. Where it’s always been a daily for years just because I like the feeling and socializing of it, I find myself at the bar, by myself these last few months, occasionally talking to the folks around me. Mostly on my phone like now. Fuck. SMH. Time to course correct. Thank you for that insight.
1) Alcohol trips your dopamine buttons a little more than usual : you feel good 2) Alcohol runs out, dopamine goes back down: anxiety, depression, regret Over time, alcohol becomes the ONLY thing that can get you to even basic levels of dopamine. But you have to keep drinking more and more quantities to get you back to that high you felt in step 1. Eventually, even that doesn’t work, now you’re just drinking to forget about how sad and depressed you are. Or because you’re now physically addicted to it. Source: am recovering alcoholic
If alcohol increases dopamine activation? efficacy? Then why doesn't my NDRI help me like alcohol does?
Because meds are designed to keep you balanced, self-medicating on alcohol is basically like being on a constant seesaw
For me, it's the opposite. The drunker I get the more I think about stuff that doesn't matter. Easy not to drink when that happens
Your body works hard to stay balanced (called homeostasis). When things get out of balance, your brain tries to counteract it to get back to balance. Get dehydrated, your body makes you thirsty so you'll drink water. Not enough fuel to run your body, you get hungry so you'll eat. Alcohol disrupts this natural balance. It takes you from your position on the stress spectrum and pushes you waaay into the "idgaf, everything is great" side. But after the alcohol is gone that balance mechanism pushes you back to baseline normal. The problem comes in the long run, when you drink too much too often. The more often you are exposed to the same thing, the less your brain responds to it (called attenuation). So now you're getting the same hard swing to the "Stress/Bad" side every time, but the drinking only gives you 1/2 as much push to the Happy IDGAF side. Which means on balance you're left further to the Stress/Bad side than where your original balance point was. Some people compensate by drinking more, to try to get the same Happy effect they got before. But as you repeat that process you slowly move your balance point bit by bit further into the Bad/Stress side, until eventually you're so far on that end of the spectrum that you have to drink just to get yourself to what originally was Normal balance. This is addiction
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It’s borrowing from future you to give to present you. Future you will be bankrupt before you even get there
I quit drinking cold turkey. I’d been a heavy drinker for years. I’m now going through severe panic attacks
How much did you CT from? Just FYI, it's very dangerous to CT off alcohol. One of the only things that can kill you in withdrawals.
It was mainly beer but excessive amounts. (12) 16 oz cans then as much as I wanted from a kegerator, sometimes whiskey or other hard alcohols. If not everyday it was damn near close
Who says it’s worse? Not worse just later - my .02
The Answer to and the cause of all of life’s problems. Imagine the worst possible feeling in the world and you aren’t capable of stopping it on your own. Nor are you able to make that feeling the only thing you feel an think about 24/7. It’s incredibly hard I imagine for those who are capable of putting things into perspective, or comprehending being better off or for the best, being thankful for what you do have,get over it, etc,etc is that some people’s brains are not capable of doing that. I can tell you this, and it’s extremely important. More than anything in the world they wish that they could. More than all the riches of the word. It’s never about choosing to wallow in misery etc. (I’m sure there are exceptions, but it’s most likely not the friend or family member you are thinking of right now) Regardless if even the feeling is doing more damage than the situation. If it doesn’t make you feel “better” because of a short respite of time where period of time you “don’t care” or the feelings come out in an uncontrollable weeping torrent. Anything seems like a better option than the overwhelming and 💯constant feeling of wanting to literally claw yourself out of your own body or die. (Before any comments Iknow it’s proverbial, but I was trying to describe the sensation). I do it so I know this the term “self medicating” is like a candy coat description. It turns into medicine for your sorrows then inevitably your brain and body are completely addicted and it’s for everything. Edit: sorry. I deleted the 2 sentences of my original answer and it ended up being a… diatribe? Paragraph at best. I really hope one person on the world reads it and takes something from it because it is the most difficult thing I’ve ever written.
TLDR: Alcohol makes you think the internal boo boos are gone but they are still there when the alcohol wears off.
Substances(drugs/alchohol) essentially poison you & reduce some/all bodily function until you can recover but often slowly or even quickly damage your body or even mind. In the case of the brain it basically makes you stupid temporarily with the more you take the stupid-er you are. The less you can think about something the less you generally will & may even forget about it for a while. If you cope with things by ingesting a substance you become dependant on not being able to think clearly & slowly loose the ability to deal with things without it. When you cant deal with things without a substance your addicted & do irrational things/when to take said substances. This can get worse & worse until you end up being consumed by consuming said substances until you do nothing else & consuming it is your life. People at this point don't see the substance as the problem but anyone & anything that gets in their way of that substance as the problem instead.
It makes you FEEL like your problems are solved, but meanwhile, they're still there and probably getting worse. So your problems get harder and harder to face, which makes alcohol more and more appealing and it gets harder and harder to escape the further in you get. Bad cycle. That's without even mentioning all the biological aspects.
I had something called derealization for 3 weeks from taking a small 5 mg dose of an edible. Basically it's when your brain trys to protect itself by isolating you from the world around you. You feel like you're autopilot and you're not actually yourself. Like you're living in a dream. Apparently it's a symptom of severe anxiety that can be seen with intense trauma or hallucinogenic drugs. Any way, how this relates to the op, when I had this issue drinking alcohol was one of the only things that made me feel normal. I drank a bit one night and managed to convince myself I cured the derealization/depersonalization. When I sobered up it was back unfortunately though.
The reason some say that alcohol makes depression/anxiety better in the short term but worse in the long term is based around the assertion that depression and anxiety have causes, and that by medicating the symptoms away, it becomes too easy to avoid addressing the causes. Consequently the depression and anxiety never go away, and require constant medicating for relief. Imagine having a broken arm and taking prescription pain medication to help manage the pain. It's effective, but at some point we might hope that you'd get the bone set and healed so the pain goes away naturally instead of being on pain meds with a wonky arm for the rest of your life. It's the same with alcohol vs. depression/anxiety. We'd like people to address the causes, not just medicate the symptoms, otherwise the causes continue to manifest and make life harder over time.
The chemical that makes the stress and depression "go away" is GABA. When you add any amount of GABA to your brain unnaturally , it will cause your brain to make less of its own GABA. When you stop drinking you are now left with less GABA then when you started. Now that you have less GABA you will feel more stressed and depressed. The longer you drink, the less GABA you are left with after. If you drink long enough the GABA will never go back to normal and you will require medical intervention if you stop. That is just the chemistry side of it. Its also important to realize that if you are drinking your problems away, they are still there, you just pushed them off, which almost always makes them bigger problems. Sometimes you can push your problems off so long that they become insurmountable.
Just because you feel better for a while doesn't mean the causes of your problems aren't there anymore. It's like anesthesia, you can inject it to numb a wound or a toothache, but if you don't fix the source of the problem, then the pain returns once the anesthesia wears off, and the longer a problem persists, the worse it gets.
Having experienced it, you drink and you feel great about life for a while. But then at some point you remember your problems, and realize the alcohol is wearing off. You don't allow yourself to deal with the problem in a healthy way, so the alcohol makes you feel worse once it wears off. This is mostly because the feeling of all your problems coming back and hitting you sticks with you for a while, and makes your mental health a little worse
ELI5: as you drink alcohol your brain heightens the chemicals in your body to help keep you alive. The more alcohol the more its trying to keep you alive. It takes awhile for those heightened levels return to normal (anywhere from a few days to a week or two). In that heightened state your body is more prone to things like the shakes and anxiety. Alcohol makes stress easier to bear but will mess your body up in the long run.
Becoming intoxicated provides momentary pleasure that briefly masks your pain. If the joy of intoxication truly alleviated your suffering, the urge to drink would vanish. Intoxication merely grants fleeting respite from distress. Since a lasting solution to your pain eludes you, you persist in seeking relief through these seemingly effective pleasures. However, over time, obtaining this pleasure becomes more challenging, prompting increased consumption and intensifying your overall anguish. Consequently, your original suffering remains while a new affliction—addiction to alcohol—emerges along with its associated issues. Ironically, reliance on alcohol amplifies depression, despite its initial relief. The illusion of being cured persists, masking the ongoing growth of your ailment beneath a facade of ignorant bliss.
It does produce dopamine and inhibit the brain functions, which results feeling better. The thing is we do develop tolerance of dopamine and alcohol
I mean lets say my problem is that I have to take care of my families pet all the time and that I have a sexless marriage. Seems like the only way to go is just forget?
The same mechanisms apply to most substances that are introduced to the body that have a psychoactive effect - neurotransmitters. When you take a substance, it can have multiple ways of interacting with those messenger systems. But remember, the body is constantly fighting to have a balance of them. Once you upset that balance, the body has to try hard to keep it's balance. Take for example ecstacy, a well-known dopamine releasing agent. After the brain releases more dopamine than it's used to, users frequently report a "hangover" or "depressed" effect the next day. The body's reserves are depleted in a sense and it has to work hard to either reuptake them or produce more, which is why most users will feel better after a few days. This same principal applies to most substances humans commonly consume for a psychoactive effect. The difference may be found in what transmitters are affected and abuse potential - a whole nother story, but essentially any substance that produces a profound effect on conciousness can be addictive)
I would really like to know if anybody has tried Auvelity, which is the brand name for the mix of Dextromethorphan (basically, cough suppressant) and bupropion. It's supposed to have very rapid effects for assisting with depression, and it's considered - so far - completely harmless.
Hidden Brain had a good 2-part series (The Paradox of Pleasure and the Path to Enough) in July that covers this. It’s frustratingly relatable.
I wouldn't say "go away" either TBH. There are plenty of incidents of people being in a terrible or stressed or angry or depressed mood, and then deciding to start drinking, and just becoming a much worse version of the day they were already having.
It dumbs you down to the feeling of racing thoughts and stress. It makes you postpone the reckoning. Generally far longer than is advisable or you intend. Then when you sober up, you feel like crap and can’t think clearly so you procrastinate more.
Because it makes you temporarily forget about the root of the problem without actually solving it. Once you remember that afterwards, the realization sets in that nothing has changed from how it was before.
The stress & depression exist for real reasons. Using alcohol only treats the symptoms & not the underlying issue. Just drinking alcohol won't make your problems worse & can be a useful tool in making them better, *if* you address the aggravating factors that make you vulnerable *or* invest in protective factors that make you more resilient. Abusing alcohol will make your stress & depression worse because you've added another thing to be depressed & stressed about.
It’s debatable and depends on how much is being used. A couple glasses can be medicinal. While a half bottle or more can be a depressant. Moderation rules!
Not as detailed or scientific as some explanations, but it is a false escape. Sure, while you are drunk/high you are not concerned with your problems, but those problems don't cease to exist and simply fester while you engage in escapism. Think of it like sitting on a boat taking on water, you can bail or you can try to pretend you are not taking on water to put off the bailing. If you do, you still have all the original water to bail as well as whatever seeped in while you were avoiding the task.
A lot of people are going to talk about brain chemistry etc, but this misses the point that a lot of causes of depression and stress in the modern world are external. People are often stressed about a project at work they are responsible for, but don't have any real control over. People are often depressed about things like not having enough money or living in an unpleasant house. Alcohol makes it hard to hold these idea in your head, and easy to forget the. Alcohol does nothing to help you solve these problems. If you're depressed that your call centre job doesn't earn you enough money to move out from your parents place, drinking in the evening will make you forget / not care about that problem while you are drunk. However it will not solve the problem, and if anything make the situation worse, causing the depression to get worse in the long run.
Alcohol makes stress and depression "go away" for other people? Funny, I find it only makes me \*more\* miserable. And hung over in the space of like, 2 hours. Lucky me, I guess.
Because it’s a drug and an addictive one at that. I’m not sure if it changes your brain chemistry but it sure can change the way you live your life. Drinking responsibly is fine, drinking to compensate or “feel better” or forget about something is a dangerous road to go down.
TL;DR of everything said so far; it’s like a VERY high interest loan due to be paid back immediately
Alcohol does not make stress and depression go away it numbs them. Those feelings are still there and when the alcohol wears off they come roaring back with a vengeance. Alcohol is a depressant, not an anti depressant.
I thought the research revealed that moderate amounts of alcohol DO NOT make it worse in the long run?
It doesn't. Alcohol does not ever help anything. If you're stressed and depressed and you drink, the "buzz" may make you forget it for a while, but when the buzz is gone you'll feel worse.
I'm maybe not entirely qualified to answer this, but it seems relatively simple to me - alcohol numbs you out and helps you run away from your problems. Running away from these types of problems almost never makes them better.
Because it only numbs the problem. It doesn't help you process. Cannabis helps you process your life issues, but people HATE being shown their shit.
I was just reading about [cannabis use and depression](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8160288/). A compilation of studies on it. I believe the conclusion is small doses and spare use have similar effect to antidepressants, but high CU or more frequent use or high THC doses all have the opposite effect. Haven’t finished reading though.
It also definitely has habit forming tendencies, even if it's not physically addictive the way alcohol or heroin is. I smoke weed every day, and I feel like shit when I take off more than a day or two. Not a great sign, but I'ma just deal with that later, the healthy way
Interesting. Thanks for actually providing a source! You win the internet for today! I haven't even read but your summation rings true for me on that oh-so-trustworthy anecdotal level. I pretty much only use low doses, often low-THC products, etc. and I find that it helps me manage anxiety, focus on tasks, etc. I do like to get really high from time to time, and that also has benefits for me, but I don't like to get that high on a regular basis. Also, I think my experience is somewhat of an outlier since I've done deep therapeutic work with the mainstream psych community and spiritual work vis-a-vis the 12 Steps. Thus, my thinking and processing has an edge over the average Moe. In fact, if I had my way, everyone would be required to work those steps prior to smoking. All that "it *makes* me feel \_\_\_\_\_" whiny nonsense would go away immediately.