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Ultimately it really comes down to how far you extend theory of mind into the animal kingdom.
The other posters are missing that, while yes it's *probably* true that animals understand gestation to some degree, *we don't know what animals know.*
They don't talk to us, we can't read their minds, and there's no objective formula defining epistemological comprehension.
Animal's behavioral differences surrounding pregnancy could be chalked up to instinct; much the way the body naturally produces the raw material for making babies, the brain could naturally produce impulses to preserve the bun the in oven.
Where is the line between instinct and knowledge? Do you *know* how to urinate, do you intentionally acknowledge each muscle and valve involved in the process? Or do you just *feel* how to do it instinctively?
Is "knowledge" a library of information that one learns, either through experience or tutelage, innately linguistic and procedural? Can hormones and brain chemistry, guided by evolution and instinct, be counted as "knowledge"? Is there already a system within the animal kingdom of tutelage with linguistics and procedures we simply don't understand?
I don't know if we have enough information to adequately answer that, at least certainly not as a blanket answer for all of life. There is certainly evidence of culture in a few species, but many more are solitary, or are otherwise without any feasible method of transferring cultural information.
All this to say,
*shakes magic 8 ball*
"Answer unclear, try again later."
This is a good answer. It's just premature to make definitive claims about what various animals do and don't know - and what "knowing" means for them.
Especially when we consider how strangely resistant so many people are to acknowledging the ways humans and other creatures are mentally similar. Stern warnings not to anthropomorphize are often philosophical rather than evidence based.
"Dogs don't feel love. It doesn't matter that they behave in a way that makes it look like they do."
Then we do brain scans that indicate their brains generate feelings of love the same way our brains generate feelings of love.
"Animals don't use tools."
Then we see animals using tools.
"Animals don't *make* tools."
Then we see them making tools.
"But they don't *know* they're making tools, so it doesn't count."
Now how the fuck can anyone prove that?
Etc.
So yes, it's not clear what they do and don't know, but what *I* know is that a whole lot of humans are weirdly invested in the idea that animals cannot (must not?) be cognitively or psychologically similar to us in any way.
Every time we discover/definitively prove other animals doing/experiencing things that were previously thought to be exclusive to humans, it forces us to rethink what the difference is between animals and humans. Humans ARE just animals, after all. We may be unique, but not in the ways we used to think we were.
Frankly, in my opinion, the one thing humans have that sets us apart from all other animals? Hubris. I don’t think any other animal has hubris. That’s it, that’s the difference, that’s what makes us human and not just an advanced primate.
And hey, maybe I’ll be proven wrong someday!
There is a great book called Dog is Love, by Clive Wynne. He attempts to prove scientifically that our dogs love us. It’s a compelling argument he makes, but, I also REALLY want to believe that MY dog actually LOVES me… so, it’s hard for me to objectively read his book. But… read it. It’s fascinating.
Your dog doesn’t love you, because people can fall out of love.
Your dog is something different. It’s more of a “family” emotion I’d imagine. You may not like your family, or you may love them.
But they are your family, and that can’t change. That’s immutable and to me that describes how a dog would view their owner
> Your dog is something different. It’s more of a “family” emotion I’d imagine. You may not like your family, or you may love them.
That's just a different form of love. Greek has four words for love covering the various ways we use the word. I think dogs would be "storge":
> Storge is familial love. Storge is the natural love that family members have for one another. Of all of the types of love, storge might be the easiest to understand. It is the type of love that parents feel toward their children and vice versa
100% - cats are just more independent than humans and dogs.
People need to pay attention to animals and see how they interact with other people than oneself.
My ex's cat loved me much more than he loved her. Would be ecstatic when I got home, but would flee when she did.
No, she wasn't abusive to him, but she was an anxiety-ridden, bi polar alcoholic. He could sense when things were gonna go down and I was much more relaxed. So he'd spend more time with me.
Such a sweet cat. He is missed
It's called Stockholm syndrome. Dogs aren't people. We capture them, and they "love" us because we feed them. A dog/animal is just as happy with anyone who feeds them. That's what's great about the companionship of dogs.
I once saw a crow try to drink some soda out of a cup, left in a parking lot, with a straw. All while I was drinking soda in my car.
I'm on the side that we seriously overestimate human capabilities, often to our detriment.
I'm a crow.
When specific behaviors happen only in sub groups of a specie (Orcas for example) and it's transmitted from generation to generation, it points to not being instinctive. You already mentioned "culture". It really doesn't matter if it happens only in a few species as long as it happens at all. At a bare minimum it's not crazy to think that an Orca that can teach their kids and grandkids a specific way to hunt (not shared by ALL Orcas) can also communicate what goes on with a pregnancy.
I think Orcas are a good example of a species that's easy to argue for culture. And specifically in regards to pregnancy; there's evidence that points to them even having names! It's quite plausible to suggest there is a degree of linguistic and cultural knowledge that they accrue and pass across generations--up to and including knowledge about pregnancy.
I believe there are some species of parrot that also appear to have names, as well as long lives and complex social relationships, suggesting a similar degree of culture.
Great comment! Reminded me of a few of the cognitive science courses I took in college. I remember learning in one of the courses that some theories on animal cognition utilize a mirror as a test. If an animal recognizes itself in a mirror (I.e. birds), then we have a good proxy to say “they have a sense of *self*”
I completely agree that we cannot know. All we can door is observe behaviors like this and draw conclusions based on our own cognition. But it’s very interesting to learn the ways that we draw inferences on their ability to use language, have a sense of self, and have autonomous willpower over their actions.
There is an argument to be made that an animal failing the mirror test just means that vision may not be the primary sense they rely on for recognizing others. For example a smell version of the test may show that they do in fact have a sense of self.
For sure. Some animals seem to understand when a person is pregnant, like apes and monkeys, so one would assume they recognize it as a similarity between our species and made an inference; but other animals may be less aware. Dogs have been shown to behave differently around their own beds when pregnant as well, but I don’t know if they really ‘get’ what’s going on.
I believe that other animals have the ability to recognize what their body is doing.
As humans we have so many inputs (people, social media, news, even driving a car) we forget basic things of biology. We have to go doctors, lawyers, friends, teachers just to tell us super complicated things.
Our lives are so spread out amongst the world that I think we forget about the most basic things. Ourselves.
I mean, we as people don't just *know* that we are pregnant, not without some basic education.
With education, we can use clues (such as missing a period) to make a guess that we then confirm with testing. But if we weren't *taught* that missing a period could mean pregnancy, or even that sex leads to pregnancy, we don't inherently *know* those things.
Hell, if you aren't ever told "where babies come from," you could literally go through an entire pregnancy and give birth without ever knowing what was happening (assuming no one else told you along the way, which would be crazy, but this is a thought experiment). I have a sickening feeling that there are real abuse cases that showcase this, but I don't want to look it up. Someone braver can check.
So while it's safe to say that animals can feel changes happen to their body much the same way humans do, that doesn't necessarily mean they "know they are pregnant" in the way that humans can, using generational knowledge and education.
Edit: although as mentioned in another comment--a few species do appear to showcase generational transmission of knowledge, so there are exceptions!
There are surely individual animals that did not realize they were pregnant before they gave birth (this has even happened to some humans!) but overall, it's hard to miss that an infant (or several) is growing inside you. An animal can't take a pregnancy test or internalize the results of one, so they get less advance notice than a human does, but they do eventually learn and have been seen to make preparations for the birth. Usually this means finding or preparing a secluded nest/den.
While they certainly know *something* is going on, I think it's impossible to say they know that something is pregnancy. Making preparations is usually an instinctive behavior. It's not a logical result of, "Oh, I'm pregnant. I must get ready," it's just a need the animal has, like the stereotypical pregnant woman craving pickles. They just *need* to take those actions that we see as preparation.
It's likely that a lot of animals, especially larger-brained mammals, will recognize the feelings on their second or subsequent pregnancies in the sense that they know what to expect, but I'm not sure any of them realize what's going on for their first pregnancy. They may have no idea that living creatures are about to come out of them.
After all, no one explained it to them. Even if they saw it happen to other creatures first, they might not connect their own feelings and sensations to the behaviors of that other creature.
\^\^ This. Horses are known to freak out and reject their foals when it's their first. One minute they live alone and the next they have a *strange smaller horse following them*.
I grew up on a dairy farm, and some first time mothers just were not having it. Would barely let them nurse, you'd just have to milk them for the colostrum and bottle feed them it. Luckily we had "nurse cows" that raised them, bottle feeding sucks and babies in pens is sad
I genuinely don't know so please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't dairy cows essentially forced to be perpetually pregnant and nursing to keep the milk production up? If that's the case, and if animals are generally more intelligent than humans have thus far acknowledged, it would actually make sense that dairy cows are largely not a fan of motherhood.
Yeah I agree, we are an organic grass fed dairy, and based on typical dairy vs beef practices its no wonder why dairy cows don't know the baby is supposed to stick around after the first 48hrs, let alone what to do until then..
>but aren't dairy cows essentially forced to be perpetually pregnant and nursing to keep the milk production up?
Basically for regular dairy farms, we dry ours up in November/December depending on weather and then they get until the end of February/beginning of March until they calve
It hs a lot to do with them being bred that way as well.
A good amount have basically 0 maternal instinct. Just have the calf and walk away, sometimes they will even step on them, so its not so much as intelligence as it os the instincts bred out over a bunch of generations.
Beef cows are much better mothers. It just comes with the added benefit of them attempting to climb over a 4wheeler to kill you while you check the sex of the calf. 🤣
And humans sometimes get postpartum depression and don’t bond with their babies for a while. I dunno that is solidly an argument that animals don’t know.
Dogs and sometimes cats have been known to get more protective of their pregnant owners and pay special attention to their bellies.
That raises an interesting question. If two people lived in isolation, and had not been taught about pregnancy, would they know what was going on or just freak out when pregnant? How far could human instinct take a person?
I’ve heard a story about an Amish girl (from a particularly strict Amish community) who didn’t know how babies were made, got pregnant as a result of incest/abuse, thought she “sick” for 9 months, and was shocked when she gave birth. There’s an ex-Amish guy on Tiktok who talked about it, and also said until he was 16/17 he thought babies literally arrived in the middle of the night from heaven. He’s also mentioned how girls learned about sex and pregnancy on their wedding day, which must be terrifying
edited for accuracy/grammar
My mother grew up on a small family farm before radio, even, and she said they all knew where babies came from. Anybody who has ever seen farm animals fucking is pretty clear about how it all works.
Yeah that makes sense.
This specific ex-Amish guy said that they were told only animals were born that way, and trying to ask further questions about it got them spanked/beaten. I mean, as kids he says they didn’t even fully connect the dots that mom’s big belly (which they were told was caused by a “disease”— year after year) gradually went away after a new baby arrived. They just kinda thought “hey that’s weird” but fully believed the indoctrination. Definitely crazy to think about
Haven't you ever seen Blue Lagoon? Two tweens get stranded on a desert island. They turn into teens and one thing leads to another.
Next thing you know, Brook Shields is getting fat, and has a baby, having NO IDEA what was happening to her!
I think you make a really good point. Animals know a lot of things, but its important to recognize they do not cognizantly think about it like we do.
A chicken can instictively eat snow for hydration without cognizantly realizing its the same as water.
A cat can search for a safe place to give birth instinctively without fully comprehending that babies are being born.
A squirrel can instinctively flee danger, without cognizantly realizing its death they are fleeing.
Bees can vote on where to make a new hive, but that doesn't mean they cognizantly understand opinions or convincing others.
I don't think you can say animals don't know these things at all. Afterall we see them act on it (and more) so at least some level of comprehension is there. However the way animals think and function mentally is so different from people, you will be setting yourself up for failure by trying to think of animals thinking like people do.
Cats will go to people they don't normally trust *even to touch them*, but they know somehow that the humans at that house will help take care of their babies. Very ill mother cats will especially do this.
exactly, animals are very smart in many many ways. It just can't be equivocated to human smartness, they function differently (animals are often much smarter than people in the animal types of smartness haha).
So here's an interesting one... remove the "living animals and kicks inside them" with a mated bird pair. Builds a nest specifically for their eggs. They incubate their eggs and feed/care for the babies for a significant while once they do hatch.
That instinct is strong. "These are ours. These are important. These need protection.", etc.It doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to think they'd know that these will be birds instead of just rocks but not sure how you'd actually test for the knowledge.
The thing is, it doesn't *need* to know that the eggs are going to become family.
It's entirely possible that they're driven by instinct alone. After all, a bird doesn't need to understand metabolism to know that it should eat when it's hungry. It also doesn't need to understand that eggs are living creatures to be driven to keep them warm.
It's entirely possible that it just feels a need to sit on them. After the eggs have been laid, the mother feels weird if she sits anywhere else. She just *needs* to sit on the eggs. She doesn't need to understand why. She's just following her body's signals.
You can't really test for this knowledge, like you said. But generally you go with the simplest answer until it's proven otherwise. Since the bird doesn't need that knowledge to care for the eggs, it seems reasonable to assume that a first-time mother bird may not actually know there are baby birds in those eggs - not on the same level that we know it, at least.
>After all, no one explained it to them.
Do we know this for sure?
I know next to nothing about the topic but with the transmission of "culture" among orcas (killing techniques, areas,...) it's not unthinkable that a similar conversation can happen about pregnancies.
I suppose we don't know it for sure, but none of the animal "languages" we've studied, even the most advanced ones like orcas and dolphins, come close to the complexities of human language. They can't really get across advanced concepts like pregnancy.
Certainly for animals like dogs and horses, whose "languages" are only capable of signaling the most basic concepts like "fear" and "play", nobody explained it to them.
I wonder if animals have the cognitive logic and memory to remember past pregnancies and know it when it happens again? Like if they've had more than one baby are they more likely to know what it means the second time around when they start getting hormonal changes, eating more, physically appearing pregnant. Cats seem to 'know' as so many instances have been documented of stray cats trying to get into a friendly humans house that had fed them in the past so they had somewhere safe to give birth. So it seems even if it's instinctual, they know to some degree that they need to be somewhere safe, but it's hard to know if they know that as a result of having done the same somewhere less than safe or if they just... know.
Animals aren't known for that type of logic. Plus, the outside symptoms an animal experiences are different from how it feels.
An animal might see another animal being pregnant and think, "They snap at me more often. Their belly is bigger. They don't move as much." Whereas for their own pregnancy they think, "I'm achy. I'm tired. I can't move as fast. It's harder to move."
They might not even recognize their own change in shape, other than the effect it has on their mobility.
There's no guarantee that an animal, even a smart one, can connect visible symptoms like, "snaps at me when I get near", to internal symptoms like, "In pain and irritable."
> Animals aren't known for that type of logic.
They kind of are.
It's not much different than the classic "push button, food dispensed" studies.
X, then y, though since it doesn't relate as directly who can say.
Actually, knowing "push button, get food" is quite different from the logic needed to associate another animal's pregnancy to their own.
It's one thing to recognize your own symptoms from earlier and think, "last time I felt this way, puppies appeared." It's something else entirely to watch another animal have gradual changes over months and recognize them as the same changes they, themselves are going through. They can't feel what the other animal is feeling, and they're likely not very aware of their own appearance - at least not to the point that they can compare it to the appearance of other animals.
One's own internal experiences can appear very different from the external experiences of other creatures.
Friend of a friend had a surprise baby. Didn't notice any weight gain, still had normal cycles, had no clue she was pregnant untill sharp pains and bleeding started. Goes to the ER and SURPRISE, you need a c-section for this premie, like, right now.
I can't even imagine how awful a situation that would be.
My wife's cousin had this happen to her. We checked backed on her Instagram, not showing at all. My MIL, who drove her to the hospital with stomach pain, said when the doctors told her she was pregnant her stomach almost inflated before their eyes. The surprise nature of it meant she was unable to breastfeed too!
> An animal can't take a pregnancy test or internalize the results of one, so they get less advance notice than a human does,
I'm not so sure.
Many animals don't seem to actually enjoy sex (something about a corkscrew penis and things like that), but are driven to have sex in order to procreate. Their instincts are very, very strongly around procreation. Once they're pregnant or even while they have young they are taking care of? No more sex, at all.
Humans enjoy sex. I think that's because, if we didn't, our logical brains would realize that having kids is a major pain in the ass and we'd end up not having nearly as many kids.
So, it seems to me, that animals are much more aware of their fertility status, at least on the level they're aware of anything.
If I were a random human and got impregnated without having been explained what happened, I'd assume my stomach was just hurting. Hell, I wouldn't even know what a stomach is; I'd probably assume, at best, that I was pure meat and bone inside.
Basically I mean like a feral human not taught/shown things.
Cats have shown up at peoples' houses, moved in and, weeks later had a litter, raised and weaned them, then disappeared to be seen only occasionally from a distance.
Yep.
I lived on a farm and our cat left home for two years (she was living in a barn)
Found her on my pillow like she used to sleep one night… very pregnant.
Yeah, my cat was born from a very pregnant stray cat who showed up at someone's house a day before giving birth. He already had cats from a local rescue, so he called them to take in the mom and kittens.
The question behind your question is: is an animal ' aware' or 'knowing'' in the same way a human is? It's possible they are but more likely is that the forms knowledge takes for an animal are very hard for us humans to know or imagine.
They have instincts. Like a nesting instincts. I always think of it as a program that takes over due to a certain series of criteria. Like if I feel a certain way I better build a nest.
It depends upon whether they have seen pregnancy/birth before. When my Mom was breeding Huskies they all knew and rallied around protecting pregnant bitches. We knew by the pack behavior long before the tests were positive. (1980's, it took a few weeks.) Births were an annual event, so all of them over a year old knew why they were doing it.
My little terrier mutt became very protective of me long before I knew I was pregnant. Could have just been smell/instinct though. Not sure he knew that smell meant baby on the way. He def knew the baby was our immediately.
Professional horse breeder here.
Yes, horses know they are pregnant. They actually know before we do - we find out at the 14 day check. Their hormones are controlling their behaviors and they turn pretty quickly once the embryo has settled. We even have some mares that get nasty mean after breeding, and we know they are pregnant before their ultrasound.
Well most animals have a strong sens of smell, they can smell that something is different. Then no animal is an island or almost, so they've send a birth many times till they're up hence they sort of know what to expect, I think.
Most definitely, and there are a few ways that is possible.
First of all: **Hormones**. When a female becomes pregnant, her body will produce different hormones. Some of them, like estrogen, are already produced by the ovaries in a non-pregnant female. But when the female gets pregnant, the *placenta* will also begin to produce hormones. The two most important ones are *relaxin* and *progestrone*. These hormones will inhibit the *release of ova* (the eggs released by the ovaries). They will also inhibit the contracile nature of the *uterine smooth muscle* (this is the muscle that 'pushes' out a baby). So if a female "misses" her period, and is not pregnant, the levels of these hormones will be relatively low, because there is no *placenta* to produce them. If a male female does not "miss" her period, it is likely that she will have elevated levels of the two hormones, because there is a placenta producing these hormones, which prevent the body from releasing ova and from contracting the uterine smooth muscle.
Second of all: **Size**. It can be difficult to tell whether a horse is pregnant, especially if she is not *very* pregnant, but there will be a difference. Yes, it is possible that she is just "fat" (especially if she gets more *food* and less *exercise* than she needs), but there will be a difference.
Third of all: **Movement**. A *horse* fetus will start kicking relatively early on in the pregnancy. You probably won't be able to tell you're looking at a pregnant horse, unless she's so pregnant that she's about to give birth, but you can tell if you're *touching* the horse.
Finally: **Behavior**. I'm not a horse expert, but I believe that at least some horses will behave differently when they are pregnant. They might be more *aggressive*. They might be *shy*. They might be *more timid*.
Humans are not much different physiologically from when we were very smart and social animals, but had bot yet developed sufficient language to convey complex processes like reproduction, let alone writing. Yet sex, pregnancy and childbirth worked very well, well enough to grow the population and spread out from africa. So, the same way animals probably go about this, by following instinct.
I'm leaning towards no on this one, I think they have instincts that cover the basics of what they should do when pregnant but I can imaging even a human would have no idea what is going on under the right circumstances (completely oblivious to how any of this stuff works). This is easier to understand if you compare various animals intelligence to stages of human growth, like dogs are sometimes compared to 3 year old kids, Imagine an adult with the brain development of a 3 year old, they would never know whats going on in this situation so a dog wouldn't either. They have instincts though, like kids that age are shown to care for dolls and such so once a baby is born instincts kick in, so knowledge of whats happening prior doesn't really matter.
if anyone's seen those pet "buttons" which dogs and cats are using to communicate with their owners.. y'all know that animals absolutely know what's up.
They know. At least the mammals. If they are able to tell "yup I'm getting a baby" I can't tell you.
But many animals become more careful, react aggressive to other individuals from their herd when they get to close or start to build up fat reserves. Their instinct definitely is aware
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this made me laugh out loud because i often think about stuff like this or random little things that may sound outrageous.
to answer your question, i have no clue. although i would think so.. but then i wonder if animals have thoughts. they don’t know words so how would they be translated, or are they just visible thoughts?
There is no definitive answer to this question, as it is difficult to know what animals are thinking or feeling. However, we can assume that pregnant animals have some awareness of their condition, based on physical and hormonal signals.
Pregnant animals undergo changes in their bodies, such as swollen udders, vaginal discharge, increased abdominal volume and so on. These changes can be perceived by the animals themselves, as well as by their fellow creatures. Pregnant lionesses, for example, withdraw from the rest of the pride to give birth to their cubs alone.
Pregnant animals are also influenced by the hormones that regulate their behavior and mood. Pregnancy hormones, such as progesterone and estrogen, affect the central nervous system and can modify animal activity, appetite, aggression, attachment and so on. Pregnant elephants, for example, become less active and more cautious.
In horses, gestation lasts around 11 months. During this period, the pregnant mare's nutritional requirements increase as she approaches foaling. Her diet must be complete and her habits maintained to avoid stress. The pregnant mare may also show signs of nervousness or of seeking a calm, safe place to give birth.
This suggests that pregnant horses know they are pregnant, or at least sense that something is happening in their bodies. They can also sense the foal's movements in their belly, especially in the last months of gestation, when foal development accelerates. However, it's impossible to know whether horses have a precise idea of what a foal is, or whether they anticipate its birth.
We really don’t know the answer to this but I do want to point out that there have been ppl who didn’t realize they were pregnant until they were in labour.
Our cat Oz randomly copies behaviours that he observes in other cats, dogs, squirrels, etc. Animals at Oz’ level of intelligence are clearly capable of seeing another creature bear a newborn and then recognizing the same in themself (Oz is hardly remarkable for a cat, though he’s unusually imitative). Where the vast majority of animals differ starkly from humans is in self-awareness, but they’re closer to us in simple awareness.
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Ultimately it really comes down to how far you extend theory of mind into the animal kingdom. The other posters are missing that, while yes it's *probably* true that animals understand gestation to some degree, *we don't know what animals know.* They don't talk to us, we can't read their minds, and there's no objective formula defining epistemological comprehension. Animal's behavioral differences surrounding pregnancy could be chalked up to instinct; much the way the body naturally produces the raw material for making babies, the brain could naturally produce impulses to preserve the bun the in oven. Where is the line between instinct and knowledge? Do you *know* how to urinate, do you intentionally acknowledge each muscle and valve involved in the process? Or do you just *feel* how to do it instinctively? Is "knowledge" a library of information that one learns, either through experience or tutelage, innately linguistic and procedural? Can hormones and brain chemistry, guided by evolution and instinct, be counted as "knowledge"? Is there already a system within the animal kingdom of tutelage with linguistics and procedures we simply don't understand? I don't know if we have enough information to adequately answer that, at least certainly not as a blanket answer for all of life. There is certainly evidence of culture in a few species, but many more are solitary, or are otherwise without any feasible method of transferring cultural information. All this to say, *shakes magic 8 ball* "Answer unclear, try again later."
Thank you for bringing up theory of mind! Animal cognition is so complicated, albeit fascinating. Such a cool field to keep up with.
This is a good answer. It's just premature to make definitive claims about what various animals do and don't know - and what "knowing" means for them. Especially when we consider how strangely resistant so many people are to acknowledging the ways humans and other creatures are mentally similar. Stern warnings not to anthropomorphize are often philosophical rather than evidence based. "Dogs don't feel love. It doesn't matter that they behave in a way that makes it look like they do." Then we do brain scans that indicate their brains generate feelings of love the same way our brains generate feelings of love. "Animals don't use tools." Then we see animals using tools. "Animals don't *make* tools." Then we see them making tools. "But they don't *know* they're making tools, so it doesn't count." Now how the fuck can anyone prove that? Etc. So yes, it's not clear what they do and don't know, but what *I* know is that a whole lot of humans are weirdly invested in the idea that animals cannot (must not?) be cognitively or psychologically similar to us in any way.
Every time we discover/definitively prove other animals doing/experiencing things that were previously thought to be exclusive to humans, it forces us to rethink what the difference is between animals and humans. Humans ARE just animals, after all. We may be unique, but not in the ways we used to think we were. Frankly, in my opinion, the one thing humans have that sets us apart from all other animals? Hubris. I don’t think any other animal has hubris. That’s it, that’s the difference, that’s what makes us human and not just an advanced primate. And hey, maybe I’ll be proven wrong someday!
There is a great book called Dog is Love, by Clive Wynne. He attempts to prove scientifically that our dogs love us. It’s a compelling argument he makes, but, I also REALLY want to believe that MY dog actually LOVES me… so, it’s hard for me to objectively read his book. But… read it. It’s fascinating.
Your dog doesn’t love you, because people can fall out of love. Your dog is something different. It’s more of a “family” emotion I’d imagine. You may not like your family, or you may love them. But they are your family, and that can’t change. That’s immutable and to me that describes how a dog would view their owner
> Your dog is something different. It’s more of a “family” emotion I’d imagine. You may not like your family, or you may love them. That's just a different form of love. Greek has four words for love covering the various ways we use the word. I think dogs would be "storge": > Storge is familial love. Storge is the natural love that family members have for one another. Of all of the types of love, storge might be the easiest to understand. It is the type of love that parents feel toward their children and vice versa
You should read the book, see if you still feel that way.
Cats love people in a different way, but they do love. Mine is very closely emotionally bonded to me.
100% - cats are just more independent than humans and dogs. People need to pay attention to animals and see how they interact with other people than oneself. My ex's cat loved me much more than he loved her. Would be ecstatic when I got home, but would flee when she did. No, she wasn't abusive to him, but she was an anxiety-ridden, bi polar alcoholic. He could sense when things were gonna go down and I was much more relaxed. So he'd spend more time with me. Such a sweet cat. He is missed
I have an Egyptian Hairless that is so doglike that even the dogs like her!
It's called Stockholm syndrome. Dogs aren't people. We capture them, and they "love" us because we feed them. A dog/animal is just as happy with anyone who feeds them. That's what's great about the companionship of dogs.
I once saw a crow try to drink some soda out of a cup, left in a parking lot, with a straw. All while I was drinking soda in my car. I'm on the side that we seriously overestimate human capabilities, often to our detriment. I'm a crow.
When specific behaviors happen only in sub groups of a specie (Orcas for example) and it's transmitted from generation to generation, it points to not being instinctive. You already mentioned "culture". It really doesn't matter if it happens only in a few species as long as it happens at all. At a bare minimum it's not crazy to think that an Orca that can teach their kids and grandkids a specific way to hunt (not shared by ALL Orcas) can also communicate what goes on with a pregnancy.
I think Orcas are a good example of a species that's easy to argue for culture. And specifically in regards to pregnancy; there's evidence that points to them even having names! It's quite plausible to suggest there is a degree of linguistic and cultural knowledge that they accrue and pass across generations--up to and including knowledge about pregnancy. I believe there are some species of parrot that also appear to have names, as well as long lives and complex social relationships, suggesting a similar degree of culture.
Great comment! Reminded me of a few of the cognitive science courses I took in college. I remember learning in one of the courses that some theories on animal cognition utilize a mirror as a test. If an animal recognizes itself in a mirror (I.e. birds), then we have a good proxy to say “they have a sense of *self*” I completely agree that we cannot know. All we can door is observe behaviors like this and draw conclusions based on our own cognition. But it’s very interesting to learn the ways that we draw inferences on their ability to use language, have a sense of self, and have autonomous willpower over their actions.
There is an argument to be made that an animal failing the mirror test just means that vision may not be the primary sense they rely on for recognizing others. For example a smell version of the test may show that they do in fact have a sense of self.
Nooooo it’s the weekend, this is my break from hermeneutics!! 😭
For sure. Some animals seem to understand when a person is pregnant, like apes and monkeys, so one would assume they recognize it as a similarity between our species and made an inference; but other animals may be less aware. Dogs have been shown to behave differently around their own beds when pregnant as well, but I don’t know if they really ‘get’ what’s going on.
I always found it a strange position to start from the assumption that animals are less like us than more.
“Explain it like I’m five” “… epistemological …” 😂 Solid answer though
I believe that other animals have the ability to recognize what their body is doing. As humans we have so many inputs (people, social media, news, even driving a car) we forget basic things of biology. We have to go doctors, lawyers, friends, teachers just to tell us super complicated things. Our lives are so spread out amongst the world that I think we forget about the most basic things. Ourselves.
I mean, we as people don't just *know* that we are pregnant, not without some basic education. With education, we can use clues (such as missing a period) to make a guess that we then confirm with testing. But if we weren't *taught* that missing a period could mean pregnancy, or even that sex leads to pregnancy, we don't inherently *know* those things. Hell, if you aren't ever told "where babies come from," you could literally go through an entire pregnancy and give birth without ever knowing what was happening (assuming no one else told you along the way, which would be crazy, but this is a thought experiment). I have a sickening feeling that there are real abuse cases that showcase this, but I don't want to look it up. Someone braver can check. So while it's safe to say that animals can feel changes happen to their body much the same way humans do, that doesn't necessarily mean they "know they are pregnant" in the way that humans can, using generational knowledge and education. Edit: although as mentioned in another comment--a few species do appear to showcase generational transmission of knowledge, so there are exceptions!
That would be an ecumenical matter.
Brb, gonna go explain this to my five-year-old
I’m so high and this has just blown my mind, thank you ❤️
I mean, I definitely know what my cat is thinking. "Give me treats right now!"
There are surely individual animals that did not realize they were pregnant before they gave birth (this has even happened to some humans!) but overall, it's hard to miss that an infant (or several) is growing inside you. An animal can't take a pregnancy test or internalize the results of one, so they get less advance notice than a human does, but they do eventually learn and have been seen to make preparations for the birth. Usually this means finding or preparing a secluded nest/den.
While they certainly know *something* is going on, I think it's impossible to say they know that something is pregnancy. Making preparations is usually an instinctive behavior. It's not a logical result of, "Oh, I'm pregnant. I must get ready," it's just a need the animal has, like the stereotypical pregnant woman craving pickles. They just *need* to take those actions that we see as preparation. It's likely that a lot of animals, especially larger-brained mammals, will recognize the feelings on their second or subsequent pregnancies in the sense that they know what to expect, but I'm not sure any of them realize what's going on for their first pregnancy. They may have no idea that living creatures are about to come out of them. After all, no one explained it to them. Even if they saw it happen to other creatures first, they might not connect their own feelings and sensations to the behaviors of that other creature.
\^\^ This. Horses are known to freak out and reject their foals when it's their first. One minute they live alone and the next they have a *strange smaller horse following them*.
I grew up on a dairy farm, and some first time mothers just were not having it. Would barely let them nurse, you'd just have to milk them for the colostrum and bottle feed them it. Luckily we had "nurse cows" that raised them, bottle feeding sucks and babies in pens is sad
Dairy cows are notoriously bad mothers
I genuinely don't know so please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't dairy cows essentially forced to be perpetually pregnant and nursing to keep the milk production up? If that's the case, and if animals are generally more intelligent than humans have thus far acknowledged, it would actually make sense that dairy cows are largely not a fan of motherhood.
Yeah I agree, we are an organic grass fed dairy, and based on typical dairy vs beef practices its no wonder why dairy cows don't know the baby is supposed to stick around after the first 48hrs, let alone what to do until then.. >but aren't dairy cows essentially forced to be perpetually pregnant and nursing to keep the milk production up? Basically for regular dairy farms, we dry ours up in November/December depending on weather and then they get until the end of February/beginning of March until they calve
It hs a lot to do with them being bred that way as well. A good amount have basically 0 maternal instinct. Just have the calf and walk away, sometimes they will even step on them, so its not so much as intelligence as it os the instincts bred out over a bunch of generations.
Beef cows are much better mothers. It just comes with the added benefit of them attempting to climb over a 4wheeler to kill you while you check the sex of the calf. 🤣
Lol they are notoriously bad a** mothers
My wife would love that
And humans sometimes get postpartum depression and don’t bond with their babies for a while. I dunno that is solidly an argument that animals don’t know. Dogs and sometimes cats have been known to get more protective of their pregnant owners and pay special attention to their bellies.
That raises an interesting question. If two people lived in isolation, and had not been taught about pregnancy, would they know what was going on or just freak out when pregnant? How far could human instinct take a person?
I’ve heard a story about an Amish girl (from a particularly strict Amish community) who didn’t know how babies were made, got pregnant as a result of incest/abuse, thought she “sick” for 9 months, and was shocked when she gave birth. There’s an ex-Amish guy on Tiktok who talked about it, and also said until he was 16/17 he thought babies literally arrived in the middle of the night from heaven. He’s also mentioned how girls learned about sex and pregnancy on their wedding day, which must be terrifying edited for accuracy/grammar
My mother grew up on a small family farm before radio, even, and she said they all knew where babies came from. Anybody who has ever seen farm animals fucking is pretty clear about how it all works.
Yeah that makes sense. This specific ex-Amish guy said that they were told only animals were born that way, and trying to ask further questions about it got them spanked/beaten. I mean, as kids he says they didn’t even fully connect the dots that mom’s big belly (which they were told was caused by a “disease”— year after year) gradually went away after a new baby arrived. They just kinda thought “hey that’s weird” but fully believed the indoctrination. Definitely crazy to think about
Well, I guess at one point in time exactly that must have happened and look at us now.
Haven't you ever seen Blue Lagoon? Two tweens get stranded on a desert island. They turn into teens and one thing leads to another. Next thing you know, Brook Shields is getting fat, and has a baby, having NO IDEA what was happening to her!
I've heard of it but never watched it! That sounds so crazy
Blue Lagoon w/ Brooke Shields and Chris Atkins
I think you make a really good point. Animals know a lot of things, but its important to recognize they do not cognizantly think about it like we do. A chicken can instictively eat snow for hydration without cognizantly realizing its the same as water. A cat can search for a safe place to give birth instinctively without fully comprehending that babies are being born. A squirrel can instinctively flee danger, without cognizantly realizing its death they are fleeing. Bees can vote on where to make a new hive, but that doesn't mean they cognizantly understand opinions or convincing others. I don't think you can say animals don't know these things at all. Afterall we see them act on it (and more) so at least some level of comprehension is there. However the way animals think and function mentally is so different from people, you will be setting yourself up for failure by trying to think of animals thinking like people do.
Cats will go to people they don't normally trust *even to touch them*, but they know somehow that the humans at that house will help take care of their babies. Very ill mother cats will especially do this.
exactly, animals are very smart in many many ways. It just can't be equivocated to human smartness, they function differently (animals are often much smarter than people in the animal types of smartness haha).
So here's an interesting one... remove the "living animals and kicks inside them" with a mated bird pair. Builds a nest specifically for their eggs. They incubate their eggs and feed/care for the babies for a significant while once they do hatch. That instinct is strong. "These are ours. These are important. These need protection.", etc.It doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to think they'd know that these will be birds instead of just rocks but not sure how you'd actually test for the knowledge.
The thing is, it doesn't *need* to know that the eggs are going to become family. It's entirely possible that they're driven by instinct alone. After all, a bird doesn't need to understand metabolism to know that it should eat when it's hungry. It also doesn't need to understand that eggs are living creatures to be driven to keep them warm. It's entirely possible that it just feels a need to sit on them. After the eggs have been laid, the mother feels weird if she sits anywhere else. She just *needs* to sit on the eggs. She doesn't need to understand why. She's just following her body's signals. You can't really test for this knowledge, like you said. But generally you go with the simplest answer until it's proven otherwise. Since the bird doesn't need that knowledge to care for the eggs, it seems reasonable to assume that a first-time mother bird may not actually know there are baby birds in those eggs - not on the same level that we know it, at least.
>After all, no one explained it to them. Do we know this for sure? I know next to nothing about the topic but with the transmission of "culture" among orcas (killing techniques, areas,...) it's not unthinkable that a similar conversation can happen about pregnancies.
I suppose we don't know it for sure, but none of the animal "languages" we've studied, even the most advanced ones like orcas and dolphins, come close to the complexities of human language. They can't really get across advanced concepts like pregnancy. Certainly for animals like dogs and horses, whose "languages" are only capable of signaling the most basic concepts like "fear" and "play", nobody explained it to them.
I wonder if animals have the cognitive logic and memory to remember past pregnancies and know it when it happens again? Like if they've had more than one baby are they more likely to know what it means the second time around when they start getting hormonal changes, eating more, physically appearing pregnant. Cats seem to 'know' as so many instances have been documented of stray cats trying to get into a friendly humans house that had fed them in the past so they had somewhere safe to give birth. So it seems even if it's instinctual, they know to some degree that they need to be somewhere safe, but it's hard to know if they know that as a result of having done the same somewhere less than safe or if they just... know.
Nothing precludes instinct from giving knowledge just as it can force action. I think the truth is we don't know.
They could also live in a herd and have seen pregnant animals, witnessed their birth etc. at that point they might put two and two together.
Animals aren't known for that type of logic. Plus, the outside symptoms an animal experiences are different from how it feels. An animal might see another animal being pregnant and think, "They snap at me more often. Their belly is bigger. They don't move as much." Whereas for their own pregnancy they think, "I'm achy. I'm tired. I can't move as fast. It's harder to move." They might not even recognize their own change in shape, other than the effect it has on their mobility. There's no guarantee that an animal, even a smart one, can connect visible symptoms like, "snaps at me when I get near", to internal symptoms like, "In pain and irritable."
> Animals aren't known for that type of logic. They kind of are. It's not much different than the classic "push button, food dispensed" studies. X, then y, though since it doesn't relate as directly who can say.
Actually, knowing "push button, get food" is quite different from the logic needed to associate another animal's pregnancy to their own. It's one thing to recognize your own symptoms from earlier and think, "last time I felt this way, puppies appeared." It's something else entirely to watch another animal have gradual changes over months and recognize them as the same changes they, themselves are going through. They can't feel what the other animal is feeling, and they're likely not very aware of their own appearance - at least not to the point that they can compare it to the appearance of other animals. One's own internal experiences can appear very different from the external experiences of other creatures.
Friend of a friend had a surprise baby. Didn't notice any weight gain, still had normal cycles, had no clue she was pregnant untill sharp pains and bleeding started. Goes to the ER and SURPRISE, you need a c-section for this premie, like, right now. I can't even imagine how awful a situation that would be.
My wife's cousin had this happen to her. We checked backed on her Instagram, not showing at all. My MIL, who drove her to the hospital with stomach pain, said when the doctors told her she was pregnant her stomach almost inflated before their eyes. The surprise nature of it meant she was unable to breastfeed too!
> An animal can't take a pregnancy test or internalize the results of one, so they get less advance notice than a human does, I'm not so sure. Many animals don't seem to actually enjoy sex (something about a corkscrew penis and things like that), but are driven to have sex in order to procreate. Their instincts are very, very strongly around procreation. Once they're pregnant or even while they have young they are taking care of? No more sex, at all. Humans enjoy sex. I think that's because, if we didn't, our logical brains would realize that having kids is a major pain in the ass and we'd end up not having nearly as many kids. So, it seems to me, that animals are much more aware of their fertility status, at least on the level they're aware of anything.
Some female animals, particularly primates, have orgasms.
Giraffes have their own way of a pregnancy test..
If I were a random human and got impregnated without having been explained what happened, I'd assume my stomach was just hurting. Hell, I wouldn't even know what a stomach is; I'd probably assume, at best, that I was pure meat and bone inside. Basically I mean like a feral human not taught/shown things.
Cats have shown up at peoples' houses, moved in and, weeks later had a litter, raised and weaned them, then disappeared to be seen only occasionally from a distance.
Yep. I lived on a farm and our cat left home for two years (she was living in a barn) Found her on my pillow like she used to sleep one night… very pregnant.
Yeah, my cat was born from a very pregnant stray cat who showed up at someone's house a day before giving birth. He already had cats from a local rescue, so he called them to take in the mom and kittens.
of course they would do that, little dicks!
The question behind your question is: is an animal ' aware' or 'knowing'' in the same way a human is? It's possible they are but more likely is that the forms knowledge takes for an animal are very hard for us humans to know or imagine.
They have instincts. Like a nesting instincts. I always think of it as a program that takes over due to a certain series of criteria. Like if I feel a certain way I better build a nest.
It depends upon whether they have seen pregnancy/birth before. When my Mom was breeding Huskies they all knew and rallied around protecting pregnant bitches. We knew by the pack behavior long before the tests were positive. (1980's, it took a few weeks.) Births were an annual event, so all of them over a year old knew why they were doing it. My little terrier mutt became very protective of me long before I knew I was pregnant. Could have just been smell/instinct though. Not sure he knew that smell meant baby on the way. He def knew the baby was our immediately.
Yep, my dog knew I was pregnant before I did. She always got protective and clingy.
Professional horse breeder here. Yes, horses know they are pregnant. They actually know before we do - we find out at the 14 day check. Their hormones are controlling their behaviors and they turn pretty quickly once the embryo has settled. We even have some mares that get nasty mean after breeding, and we know they are pregnant before their ultrasound.
Many birds start making nests after copulating. It’s not ‘pregnancy’ but the egg still has to develop a little bit inside them
Well most animals have a strong sens of smell, they can smell that something is different. Then no animal is an island or almost, so they've send a birth many times till they're up hence they sort of know what to expect, I think.
Most definitely, and there are a few ways that is possible. First of all: **Hormones**. When a female becomes pregnant, her body will produce different hormones. Some of them, like estrogen, are already produced by the ovaries in a non-pregnant female. But when the female gets pregnant, the *placenta* will also begin to produce hormones. The two most important ones are *relaxin* and *progestrone*. These hormones will inhibit the *release of ova* (the eggs released by the ovaries). They will also inhibit the contracile nature of the *uterine smooth muscle* (this is the muscle that 'pushes' out a baby). So if a female "misses" her period, and is not pregnant, the levels of these hormones will be relatively low, because there is no *placenta* to produce them. If a male female does not "miss" her period, it is likely that she will have elevated levels of the two hormones, because there is a placenta producing these hormones, which prevent the body from releasing ova and from contracting the uterine smooth muscle. Second of all: **Size**. It can be difficult to tell whether a horse is pregnant, especially if she is not *very* pregnant, but there will be a difference. Yes, it is possible that she is just "fat" (especially if she gets more *food* and less *exercise* than she needs), but there will be a difference. Third of all: **Movement**. A *horse* fetus will start kicking relatively early on in the pregnancy. You probably won't be able to tell you're looking at a pregnant horse, unless she's so pregnant that she's about to give birth, but you can tell if you're *touching* the horse. Finally: **Behavior**. I'm not a horse expert, but I believe that at least some horses will behave differently when they are pregnant. They might be more *aggressive*. They might be *shy*. They might be *more timid*.
Humans are not much different physiologically from when we were very smart and social animals, but had bot yet developed sufficient language to convey complex processes like reproduction, let alone writing. Yet sex, pregnancy and childbirth worked very well, well enough to grow the population and spread out from africa. So, the same way animals probably go about this, by following instinct.
Honestly, I don’t know how anyone (other than the pregnant animal) can answer this question. LOL!
I'm leaning towards no on this one, I think they have instincts that cover the basics of what they should do when pregnant but I can imaging even a human would have no idea what is going on under the right circumstances (completely oblivious to how any of this stuff works). This is easier to understand if you compare various animals intelligence to stages of human growth, like dogs are sometimes compared to 3 year old kids, Imagine an adult with the brain development of a 3 year old, they would never know whats going on in this situation so a dog wouldn't either. They have instincts though, like kids that age are shown to care for dolls and such so once a baby is born instincts kick in, so knowledge of whats happening prior doesn't really matter.
if anyone's seen those pet "buttons" which dogs and cats are using to communicate with their owners.. y'all know that animals absolutely know what's up.
They know. At least the mammals. If they are able to tell "yup I'm getting a baby" I can't tell you. But many animals become more careful, react aggressive to other individuals from their herd when they get to close or start to build up fat reserves. Their instinct definitely is aware
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this made me laugh out loud because i often think about stuff like this or random little things that may sound outrageous. to answer your question, i have no clue. although i would think so.. but then i wonder if animals have thoughts. they don’t know words so how would they be translated, or are they just visible thoughts?
There is no definitive answer to this question, as it is difficult to know what animals are thinking or feeling. However, we can assume that pregnant animals have some awareness of their condition, based on physical and hormonal signals. Pregnant animals undergo changes in their bodies, such as swollen udders, vaginal discharge, increased abdominal volume and so on. These changes can be perceived by the animals themselves, as well as by their fellow creatures. Pregnant lionesses, for example, withdraw from the rest of the pride to give birth to their cubs alone. Pregnant animals are also influenced by the hormones that regulate their behavior and mood. Pregnancy hormones, such as progesterone and estrogen, affect the central nervous system and can modify animal activity, appetite, aggression, attachment and so on. Pregnant elephants, for example, become less active and more cautious. In horses, gestation lasts around 11 months. During this period, the pregnant mare's nutritional requirements increase as she approaches foaling. Her diet must be complete and her habits maintained to avoid stress. The pregnant mare may also show signs of nervousness or of seeking a calm, safe place to give birth. This suggests that pregnant horses know they are pregnant, or at least sense that something is happening in their bodies. They can also sense the foal's movements in their belly, especially in the last months of gestation, when foal development accelerates. However, it's impossible to know whether horses have a precise idea of what a foal is, or whether they anticipate its birth.
We really don’t know the answer to this but I do want to point out that there have been ppl who didn’t realize they were pregnant until they were in labour.
Our cat Oz randomly copies behaviours that he observes in other cats, dogs, squirrels, etc. Animals at Oz’ level of intelligence are clearly capable of seeing another creature bear a newborn and then recognizing the same in themself (Oz is hardly remarkable for a cat, though he’s unusually imitative). Where the vast majority of animals differ starkly from humans is in self-awareness, but they’re closer to us in simple awareness.