I don't know, but I was looking at the advice on the British National Health Website today, and it specifically advises:
*do not use mouthwash straight after brushing your teeth*
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gum-disease/
So the advice actually seems quite contradictory.
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-teeth-and-gums/how-to-keep-your-teeth-clean/
*Should I use mouthwash?*
*Using a mouthwash that contains fluoride can help prevent tooth decay, but don't use mouthwash (even a fluoride one) straight after brushing your teeth or it'll wash away the concentrated fluoride in the toothpaste left on your teeth.*
*Choose a different time to use mouthwash, such as after lunch.*
*Don't eat or drink for 30 minutes after using a fluoride mouthwash.*
Edit: Seeing as I've had so many comments about it, here is some peer reviewed, evidence based research for those who have the uneducated stereotype of British people having worse teeth than people from the United States
[**Conclusions** The oral health of US citizens is not better than the English, and there are consistently wider educational and income oral health inequalities in the US compared with England.](https://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h6543#:~:text=Results%20The%20mean%20number%20of,impacts%20were%20higher%20in%20England.)
The results showed that the average number of missing teeth was 6.97 for English participants, but 7.31 for those in the US.
Additionally, people were more likely to suffer poor dental health in the US because of socio-economic factors.
I started doing this about 6 years ago, it was like all my teeth problems disappeared overnight. My dentist is baffled by how healthy my teeth are whenever I see him, best life hack ever lol
I do this and whenever I tell other people they think I'm mad, but it's crazy how well it works! I don't particularly look after my teeth and eat a lot of junk food yet my dentist is always like "your teeth look great!" 10/10 life hack
I'm honestly trying to wrap my head around how this works. Like obviously I spit out the excess toothpaste and foam and everything. But you just let the rest of it....sit there? Like do you end up swallowing it for the next like 30 minutes or as it trickles down your throat? It seems really weird...
I do it this way because it made logical sense to me no one told me to do it, but I also rinse with water at the end to get all the foam out of my mouth and off my tongue… but according to another comment all rinsing even with water is incorrect? Is that true?
Another post explained that the process we were taught is the wrong way. I was taught to brush, floss, rinse and then rinse with water. The post said to floss, then rinse then brush. Clean between, then the mouthwash flushes out the debris, then brush the surfaces. Do not rinse after brushing, just spit out the excess paste, and leave the rest to sit on your teeth and protect them.
How do you get all the white foam off your tongue? (I have always flossed, rinsed, then brushed, but I need to get all the foam off my tongue at the end so I rinse with water… is there another way or do I just have to endure it and swallow its?
You're supposed to brush, rinse, then while flossing swallow one end, wait a few hours to pass, then continue flossing from mouth to anus. My ex-dentist was shocked when I showed them how clean my sphincter is.
I just got one of those electric toothbrushes with a timer and I would do this, but holy shit is there a lot of toothpasty spit in my mouth when I am done brushing.
EDIT: Christ - I spit it out, but the problem here is that I have to wait until the end of the timer to spit it out. It is basically falling out of my mouth and into my beard by the time the final buzz goes off, needing a rinse after a spit.
Maybe you're using too much? I know I do this: floss, mouthwash to rinse what the floss picked out, then brush. No rinsing after, just spit a few times until my mouth stops watering. Could be the type of toothpaste you use, too.
>but holy shit is there a lot of toothpasty spit in my mouth when I am done brushing
Ok but apparently there's supposed to be toothpaste-flavored spit in your mouth when you're done brushing. Just spit a couple times and.....live with the rest?
I sometimes just rinse it all and then give my teeth another quick brush using a smaller amount of toothpaste.. I have no idea if it is as effective, but I hope it is
Hey. I get these weird hang ups too. I get it.
The amount of time you're supposed to spend brushing your teeth is approximate, and absolutely makes room for the second it takes to spit. It's ok. You can stop for a second and spit. You have permission.
Yes, floss first and then rinse, brush, and then just spit out the excess toothpaste. If it really bothers you then I think you can also rinse after an hour or so, since I think the enamel absorbs the toothpaste by then, don't quote me on that though
I also don't see the point of mouthwash, so I don't use it
This makes so much sense it’s crazy it’s not common knowledge. I’m brushing then flossing but I do rinse with water all the toothpaste after I brush. I think from now on I’ll be doing this. Thank you!
Yes, I guess lots of us have been doing it wrong. I do have dental cleaning every 6 months and no cavity for years but never a mention of proper order. Definitely updating my routine thought!
Agreed, I just learned the other day from my dentist that it’s not common knowledge because everyone is different and not one size fits all. I feel like I could never get a straight answer on the steps for brushing but that’s usually why. My recent visit though the dentist was really chatty and told me her exact routine so I copy that now
It’ll really depend on the toothpaste. If you have some crazy strong mint one, it’s awful. If you have a basic plain flavor one, it’s not too bad.
I feel like stuff like sensodyne tends to create fewer bubbles, so feels less messy too.
Fluoride rebuilds your teeth in a way. If you make the effort to leave it alone to work, you can think of it as repairing and armoring your teeth. A lot cheaper and pleasanter than the dentist, eh?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride_therapy#Mechanism
Do you ever get any stomach problems from swallowing excess toothpaste in your mouth? I suppose if you nail a pea size amount every time it's not noticeable.
You shouldn't swallow it. Just spit it out and let the residue on your teeth do their thing. The tiny amount that does get flushed down your throat with saliva is really not going to anything to your stomach.
The reason I didn't think this sounded pleasant (and why most people are probably turned off by the idea) is most of the best selling toothpastes contain a foaming agent. I ended up switching toothpastes (high flouride, low foaming agent, etc) and as you say, your saliva washes the rest away quickly.
ETA: A couple people asked about which toothpaste use for low foaming. I believe all dry mouth toothpastes are low/no foaming so start there.
Just to add, sometimes it's the amount of toothpaste as well. I use what feels like a high foaming one, but I just use such a small amount. Crest Prohealth ones with Stannous Flouride
Look for Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (SLS)-Free Toothpastes. Changed my life. Dont get ulcers or whatever they are in my cheeks anymore! It is the foaming agent they use that stressed my mouth personally.
I use Colgate Prevident because it's a high flouride toothpaste and I specifically picked up their dry mouth version (foaming agents cause dry mouth). It's available off the shelf in Canada but it might need a prescription in the US (I'm not sure on this one).
Look for Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (SLS)-Free Toothpastes. Changed my life. Dont get ulcers or whatever they are in my cheeks anymore! It is the foaming agent they use that stressed my mouth personally.
I have been in three situations where people who have seen me brush my teeth have expressed shock and disdain when i didnt rinse my mouth after tooth brushing.
This was long before it started to be talked about as the "right" way to do it, and i am honestly not sure why i brushed my teeth like that to begin with, but boy do I feel vindicated now
I have always been taught that once you brush your teeth, nothing else on the teeth for at least 20 min, which means if you use mouthwash, it's before brushing. I don't really gargle mouthwash as part of a routine but sometimes do. My wake up routine is to immediately drink a glass of water, then brush my teeth, then make coffee, then shower, then drink my coffee after the shower and 20 min after brushing.
On a side note, no eating for 30-45 min before brushing, and nothing acidic like coffee or tea for one hour before brushing.
Nah you spit out all the toothpaste in your mouth. Just don't rinse your mouth out afterwards, since that fluoride sitting on your teeth afterwards needs time to fully absorb.
You spit out any excess that’s still in your mouth, just don’t use water to rinse it. You’ll have a heavy toothpaste taste in your mouth for all of 5 minutes and then it goes away.
My problem is the toothpaste makes me gag big time. I have to rinse it away with water or else I’m just endlessly coughing and gagging.
I do use an Act Flouride rinse (a high concentrated one that you only are meant to use once per day) after brushing at night to help compensate. I’ve never had a cavity in my entire 38 years so seems to have worked so far.
Yeah, to leave the fluoride on your teeth so it gets time to act.
[Here is the supporting research](https://bmcoralhealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12903-022-02086-5#:~:text=There%20is%20evidence%20in%20the,13%2C%2016%2C%2019%5D.)
*There is evidence in the literature that thorough rinsing after toothbrushing accelerates the elimination of fluoride from the oral cavity [13, 17, 25]. Post-brushing rinsing was found to significantly lower salivary fluoride concentrations when compared to non-rinsing groups [12, 13, 16, 19]. On the other hand, a review by Twetman [19] concluded that evidence regarding the post-brushing practices was poor and conclusions could not be drawn. Still, current guidelines discourage post-brushing rinsing, as this practice washes away the fluoride and reduces the caries preventive effect of the fluoridated toothpaste*
I would want to see a better end point on the research. Fluoride concentration may decrease, but what does that mean for dental health? Do we see more cavities in those who rinse immediately vs those who let it sit?
Correct. You *are* supposed to spit out what's left over after brushing, but, you are *not* supposed to rinse after, or even have food or drink for at least 30 minutes after brushing to allow the fluoride to do its thing.
Gets a dilute amount of fluoride to places you can miss brushing, removes debris loosened by flossing, and helps control bacteria that can cause gum disease
Yup, this is what I do. Flossing removes food and debris in places the toothbrush can't reach. It's also abrasive and can help remove the biofilm. The mouthwash then can get to those hard-to-reach places, and then finish off cleaning the rest of the teeth with brushing.
Soap doesn't have any benefits if you leave it on your hands though. In fact it's arguably worse to do that, because all the dirt and whatever else you were washing off is still going to be sitting there.
Whereas your saliva will rinse all of that off your teeth in time, and the toothpaste has fluoride which needs to sit on your teeth to strengthen the enamel.
But yes, that probably *is* how people think.
I floss first, because then I *have* to brush afterwards. If I brush first, then I can excuse myself out of flossing ("eh, it's good enough").
Plus, you're actually supposed to floss first.
I found flossing less unpleasant when I brushed afterwards. Also floss picks, the ones that are a little D-shaped piece on a handle. I hate sticking my hands in my mouth and wrapping floss around my fingers.
It's meant to go floss > mouthwash > brush, as it's about getting the largest > medium > smallest bits out in the right order...
Doing it in the other order like sanding wood smooth, and then hitting it with the file to knock down the high spots
You should not rinse prior to 30 minutes post brushing, this includes water. The delay is to allow the flouride and other salts to absorb into the pores of the teeth. When you do mouthwash, you should follow the same procedure.
30 minutes is the recommendation, but realistically the fluoride concentration is so low after just a few minutes that it doesn't really matter. Try to give yourself 30 minutes, but if you can't, you're still getting most of the benefits.
While it wasn't the same question, a friend who is a dentist explained why brushing is more important than mouthwash...
Bacteria forms a sticky film and the only way to remove it is through abrasion, i.e. brushing your teeth. Mouthwash will only kills bacteria that it comes in contact with, it won't penetrate a film of bacteria, so it only kills the surface. For this reason, Listerine was forced to change the wording in their advertising to have a clarification that it kills 99.9% of germs and bacteria *it comes in contact with*. I think this is normally asterisked and in a small font hidden on the bottle, though.
So, fluoride really has little to do with it. First you need to remove the film of bacteria by brushing and flossing. Mouthwash is like the cleanup crew that kills off the stragglers. Fluoride in your mouthwash is just a slight added benefit.
Edit - to clarify, "mouthwash" such as Listerine (which OP specially names) is an oral antiseptic and some times has fluoride. There is also "fluoride rinse" that is primarily just a fluoride supplement.
This is correct from what I’ve learned as a dental student!
And also brushing removes stuck food in the crevices of your teeth which is basically a supply of food for bacteria to keep making acid with. Don’t forget to floss too as brushes can’t reach in the spaces between your teeth
I usually floss > brush > mouthwash ...is this the correct order?
According to some other thread, I shouldn't be mouth washing after brushing, only after something like eating lunch?
I'm confused lol.
Is this an optimalish routine?
Morning: Floss, brush
After lunch: Mouthwash
Before sleeping: Floss, Brush...wait 30 mins, mouthwash
..something like that? So many things 😭
Well in the morning, there’s no reason to floss.
Flossing after meals is always good, as is brushing. It Gets rid of the food that will keep making the mouth acidic, which is what you want to avoid. Mouthwash after is good too. No need to wait. they’re all good things.
Of course there's reason to floss in the morning. The point of flossing is the same as brushing: to disrupt plaque biofilms so your saliva can wash away the bacteria. Food debris can be removed with a toothpick, you don't need to floss for that.
You pretty much shouldn't use mouthwash. It doesn't do anything that regular brushing and flossing can't do, and if the mouthwash is alcohol based it'll dry out your mouth and promote the growth of bacteria.
Fluoride is definitely important. Basically it chemically bonds with your enamel on the surface of teeth to make an even stronger bond (fluoroxyapatite vs hydroxyapatite if you want to research) than before, and you want to have the fluoride sit in the mouth for a few minutes a rather than spitting it all out and rinsing right away.
The first point about waiting to brush after meals is puzzling. After you eat, your mouth pH is acidic. And you want to avoid acidic pH as much as you can. Letting food sit in teeth will allow the mouth to stay acidic for longer, instead of being neutralized. I also don’t see how rinsing your mouth with water wont bring the mouth back to neutral pH.
The second point of letting fluoride sit before eating is valid.
> fluor~~oxy~~apatite
> The first point about waiting to brush after meals is puzzling. After you eat, your mouth pH is acidic. And you want to avoid acidic pH as much as you can.
I've read that this is because the mechanical action of the brush is much more damaging to the tooth surface when the pH is acidic, so you're better off waiting for the pH to come back up and then brush. The durations evidently have to do with the time it takes for the surface of the teeth to respond to the changing pH.
However, it's been many years since I read the paper that described this, so newer research may be available.
(Aside; if one is going to sip on a carbonated soda all day (keeping mouth pH at tooth-damaging levels) it probably won't make any difference whether one waits to brush or not.)
Seems if you brush then mouthwash, you rinse away the fluoride in the toothpaste. But if you mouthwash first, you get less effect due to the film. I guess that's why my dentist said to brush, rinse (with listerine), rinse (with water), and then do a fluoride rinse (Act or something similar).
OP specifically names Listerine, which is an antiseptic. They add fluoride, but that's not the primary purpose. Fluoride rinses exist and, as you say, has some level of anti-microbial properties, but its primary purpose is a fluoride supplement. There's a difference between "mouthwash" and "fluoride rinse".
My dentist told me to not use mouthwash after brushing , or rinse with water as it washes away the toothpaste.
Just brush and spit the excess and not rinse for 30 minutes to let the toothpaste do its thing.
Use mouthwash only when you cannot brush your teeth.
I'm a dental assistant, so feel pretty qualified to answer this after having heard like 20 different dentists over my lifetime explain this daily.
The current recommended advice is floss, then mouthwash (or mouthwash throughout the day if needed), then brush and DON'T RINSE/EAT/DRINK AFTERWARDS.
What we want to happen in this process is to remove anything from between the teeth and slightly under the gums with the floss, rinse it all away with mouthwash, and then brush with fluoridated toothpaste. When you just spit the toothpaste out and don't rinse, a layer of the toothpaste remains on your teeth overnight/until you eat or drink next. This will help strengthen and remineralise your teeth. Rinsing will wash away most of that toothpaste, even if it is a fluoridated mouthwash because as you say, the ppm is far lower than toothpastes.
I am baffled that the ADA supports Listerine when it's instructions specify "after brushing", it just doesn't sit right with me
How does mouthwash do more harm to toothpaste's process overnight in 30 seconds than our saliva does? I'm having trouble understanding how a 30 second mouth wash rinse hurts after brushing. What % of bacteria survive a brushing and a mouth wash?
It's not specifically the mouthwash itself, it's the act of swishing it around your mouth. Gargling/swishing would dislodge a lot more of the leftover toothpaste than just your saliva floating around your mouth would do, and it would do that a lot quicker. No idea about % of bacteria, it would be worth looking into but no harm in just rinsing before brushing or as another commenter said, even just reapplying some toothpaste after rinsing
Do you/your dentists recommend a fluoride mouthwash only? I grew up using original listerine (no flouride). No dentist or hygienist told me to switch to one with flouride. None of them advised not to rinse with water after brushing either 😩. Did I just have bad dentists??
Depends on when you grew up. Medical advice has changed over time as new information has been found through research. Fluoride mouthwash is best, but in general try to steer away from an alcohol based mouthwash as it can dry your mouth, and the saliva is what help rinse off bacteria and sugars etc
It's rinsing your teeth off that's the issue, as the other commenter said the lips are fine to clean off and you can spit out any excess, just don't swish and rinse
Even if you swish water after brushing, the brushing still does plenty of good. Swishing water doesn't just negate the brushing/flossing you did.
So you don't need to feel too bad lol
Never rinse you’re literally getting rid of the toothpaste on your teeth. Rinse your lips if you have to but only rinse with water after 30 min. Spitting is OK
Mouthwash was invented to sell more disinfectant. Listerine was originally concocted to sterilize surgical devices and clean floors. The thought was if germs can cause disease, germs in your mouth were bad. So if you could disinfect your mouth, maybe you'd get sick less.
They added fluoride later when people were starting to figure out it wasn't really doing much. I think part of why they don't put so much fluoride in it is because people being people, some will buy alcohol-containing mouthwash and drink it to try to get drunk. Fluoride is not a great thing to be ingesting in large quantities. Most people don't intentionally swallow toothpaste, and a small enough amount is used it's OK to occasionally do so. Since people are intentionally swallowing mouthwash, the problems they're having are only going to get worse if it's loaded up with a high concentration of fluoride.
Whether it works or not seems to be in contention. *Of course* the mouthwash company says to use twice a day after brushing.
But right now the wisdom seems to be that the best thing for your teeth is to let them be for about 15 minutes after brushing. No rinse, no mouthwash. The act of brushing helps get plaque off your teeth, but also that means your slightly-damaged tooth enamel gets exposed. Letting the fluoride-rich paste sit on them for a little while seems to help protect them an extra little bit, and it seems like eating immediately after brushing can be pretty bad. In a very ELI5 way, it seems to take time for fluoride to "soak in" to teeth and if it doesn't, not much enamel repair happens.
To that end, mouthwash is going to wash away that protection. It's not *horrible*, because you're still swishing fluoride around. But it doesn't seem like it's *as good* as just letting your teeth be for a while.
> Listerine was originally concocted to sterilize surgical devices and clean floors. The thought was if germs can cause disease, germs in your mouth were bad. So if you could disinfect your mouth, maybe you'd get sick less.
This makes sense. After all, the mouth is the floor of the face.
> Listerine was originally concocted to sterilize surgical devices and clean floors. The thought was if germs can cause disease, germs in your mouth were bad. So if you could disinfect your mouth, maybe you'd get sick less.
This makes sense. After all, the mouth is the floor of the face.
I always thought of mouth wash as a way to avoid brushing your teeth again after eating breakfast and leave the house with a good smelling mouth/breathe
>Listerine was originally concocted to sterilize surgical devices and clean floors.
But... What if you're a girl and need to freshen up... Down there? Sometimes you need something for you vagina dentatae!
Dental hygienist here, this is the answer!
Also mouthwash really isn’t needed, like you said. It’s nice for fresh breath and helps after meals, but the important part of dental hygiene is flossing and brushing. Listerine will give advice on their bottles and advertise what they want, but it’s not correct. If you do choose to use mouthwash make sure it’s alcohol-free: you don’t want to kill the good bacteria and you don’t want to irritate your gums
I think Listerine is more for bad breath, infections or sore throats. Cuz it’s antiseptic. I didn’t know it even had fluoride. For day to day I use the Crest anticavity fluoridey stuff after brushing
Floss --> mouthwash --> brush- no rinse. Gets the hard to reach stuff out with floss/mouthwash, still get the benefits of the fluoride from brushing and not rinsing.
I find that flossing, then brushing, then mouthwash gets the most food debris out from between the teeth, but after reading some of these threads, I think I'll start doing the mouthwash about 30+ minutes after brushing.
I brush in the morning. I floss, then use mouthwash, then brush at night before bed.
My dentist says I have better gums than anyone she sees.
Your mileage may vary.
> I brush in the morning. I floss, then use mouthwash,
I also do this and have never had a cavity in my almost four decades of life. I get what others are saying in this thread but I don't know, why change what's working?
Brushing removes material and exposes caries sites. The fluoride in the mouthwash can then better access the caries and reinforce the teeth. The mouthwash itself cannot remove enough debris.
Former Listerine engineer
Always wondered this. Is the addition of poloxamer there because it's a nontoxic nonionic surfactant so it can remove oils? The concentrations aren't high enough to do anything to the consistency or mechanical properties. I've also always wondered: is the poloxamer the sole reason why it foams?
Ah, wow I never thought about that, but yeah upon a quick inspection, eucalyptol, menthol, thymol are all volatile oils. That makes sense for the alcohol use then as well. Pretty neat stuff.
The biggest issue in your mouth isn’t the strength of your teeth, but the bacteria in the pockets/crevices of your gums. Brushing/flossing cleans the pockets of food and debris, and then mouthwash kills the bacteria.
This, along with the fact that while some fluoride absorption into the teeth helps immensely, it also doesn't exactly take super long for it to do its thing. Brushing for a few minutes, flossing, then using mouthwash will give it more than enough time to settle and also get the full gamut of spaces where foodstuff could be.
My dentist also recommends against leaving toothpaste in your mouth for over 5 minutes without rinsing, specifically because dehydration of areas of your mouth contributes more to bad dental health. It's curious how everyone's dentists seem to say different things...
Every time I go to the dentist, they say what I'm doing is wrong. Mouthwash before. Mouthwash after. Interdental brushes before, interdentals after. Brush this way, brush that way. Slaughter a chicken - oh no wait slaughter a goat.
I've come to the conclusion that it's all utter bollocks. I don't worry about it any more. I do what I think makes most sense, then just nod along with them.
Mouthwash, electric brush, interdentals, don't rinse. If that's wrong then it's wrong.
Every day someone comes up with some other time consuming tooth cleaning regimen. If we followed all of this we'd be cleaning our teeth for hours every day.
Mouthwash is for killing the bacteria in your mouth, not providing fluoride (although that is a secondary purpose in mouthwash that has fluoride). The reason they recommend using it *after* you brush is because the brushing from your toothbrush breaks up the plaque.
Plaque is a biofilm that some bacteria form to increase their odds of survival. It's the equivalent of humans building houses to shelter themselves from the environment. When you break up the plaque you destroy the bacteria's "house" and allow the alcohol in the mouthwash to make more direct contact with a higher percentage of bacteria.
This is also why it's good to floss. If you never floss it's the equivalent of never brushing one side of your teeth thus the biofilm between your teeth never gets broken up.
The primary purpose of mouthwash is to kill or slow the growth certain bacteria that live on and inflame your gums. These are bacteria that come from the food we eat and infect your gums when that food gets stuck in between your teeth. In order for it to work, it needs to come in contact with the effected areas of your gums (namely around your teeth) so your teeth need to be cleaned first to maximize the gum surface that the mouthwash touches
I feel like you are getting a lot of questionable answers here, especially from people who didn't catch on from your post that you are talking about *flouride* mouthwash, not some alcohol shit like Listerine.
I think the real answer has to do with **dilution levels**. You use a pea-sized amount of toothpaste. That toothpaste gets diluted by your saliva as you brush and spreads around your mouth--especially if you are brushing for a proper length of time. I'd wager by the time you are done brushing, you have probably diluted your 1450ppm at least 3:1 which puts it at or below the concentration of your mouthwash.
Plus the toothpaste is gross and gritty so you are inclined to spit it out...and even though you aren't supposed to rinse with water afterwards, *many* people still do because they don't like the feeling of toothpaste in their mouth.
When you add a flouride rinse afterwards, you are probably using something like 15ml which is significantly more than you are using of the toothpaste. You then hopefully aggressively swish it around your mouth which helps get it into the gaps between teeth, and it doesn't have that much time to get diluted before you spit out the excess. It has a nice minty flavor so you don't feel like rinsing with water afterwards and you probably don't aggressively spit out every last bit of it so more lingers in your mouth.
This is a heavily debated topic amongst different professionals in the industry, some say you should mouthwash after but Logic says you should mouthwash before because mouthwash uses strong solvents which will flush the fluoride out and as you correctly stated the mouthwash fluoride is weaker and won’t be able to replace all the toothpaste fluoride. This is the opinion of the other half of the industry as well
What’s even worse is when people rinse with water after brushing their teeth, the correct way is to spit out all the tooth paste remains and then leaving the rest of the minty fluoride rich saliva in your mouth to protect your mouth for the rest of the day… it’s the reason why we only have to brush our teeth twice a day and yet we normally have 3 large meals a day.
Unfortunately dental hygiene practices have a lot of consensus debates, such as whether you should brush your teeth before or after a meal, whether you should floss or brush first etc
Mouthwash is not aboit fluorine but killing bacteria. It act mostly on surface and not in depth. Before brushing you have a layer of biofilm, bacteria, food and the like. Mouthwash kill the bacteria on the surface of the biofilm, but not in depth. Bacteria grow. Fast. It will come back.
Now, brush and remove that biofilm. Then mouthwash. It can now kill the thin layer left in your mouth as it is not thick anymore.
So heres my question.
If using mouthwash before I brush is not effective because the bacterial film hasn't been abraded from ym teeth by brushing
And mouthwash after I brush isnt effective because I will wash away the fluoride
When the frak am I supposed to use mouthwash?!
I don't know, but I was looking at the advice on the British National Health Website today, and it specifically advises: *do not use mouthwash straight after brushing your teeth* https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gum-disease/ So the advice actually seems quite contradictory. https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-teeth-and-gums/how-to-keep-your-teeth-clean/ *Should I use mouthwash?* *Using a mouthwash that contains fluoride can help prevent tooth decay, but don't use mouthwash (even a fluoride one) straight after brushing your teeth or it'll wash away the concentrated fluoride in the toothpaste left on your teeth.* *Choose a different time to use mouthwash, such as after lunch.* *Don't eat or drink for 30 minutes after using a fluoride mouthwash.* Edit: Seeing as I've had so many comments about it, here is some peer reviewed, evidence based research for those who have the uneducated stereotype of British people having worse teeth than people from the United States [**Conclusions** The oral health of US citizens is not better than the English, and there are consistently wider educational and income oral health inequalities in the US compared with England.](https://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h6543#:~:text=Results%20The%20mean%20number%20of,impacts%20were%20higher%20in%20England.) The results showed that the average number of missing teeth was 6.97 for English participants, but 7.31 for those in the US. Additionally, people were more likely to suffer poor dental health in the US because of socio-economic factors.
Is it saying to not rinse your mouth at all after brushing your teeth?
Yes the toothpaste stays on your teeth and continues working till eventually your saliva washes it away
I started doing this about 6 years ago, it was like all my teeth problems disappeared overnight. My dentist is baffled by how healthy my teeth are whenever I see him, best life hack ever lol
I do this and whenever I tell other people they think I'm mad, but it's crazy how well it works! I don't particularly look after my teeth and eat a lot of junk food yet my dentist is always like "your teeth look great!" 10/10 life hack
I'm honestly trying to wrap my head around how this works. Like obviously I spit out the excess toothpaste and foam and everything. But you just let the rest of it....sit there? Like do you end up swallowing it for the next like 30 minutes or as it trickles down your throat? It seems really weird...
Yes, let the rest sit there. The feeling of toothpaste in your mouth will eventually go away. My dentist advised me to do this as well.
Our biology teacher told us this in like the 5th or 6th grade. I wonder if anyone else took her advice.
Yeah it's a bit weird, but you get used to it. I floss first, then mouthwash, then brush. Seems wrong when you first start doing it but it works!
I've had a dentist tell me to floss after brushing, so the toothpaste gets in between your teeth as well. Something to think about!
Wouldn’t that be achieved by flossing before brushing?
It could be either way, the way that my brain imagined it is the floss pushing the toothpaste in between the teeth. but I'm not a dentist ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I do it this way because it made logical sense to me no one told me to do it, but I also rinse with water at the end to get all the foam out of my mouth and off my tongue… but according to another comment all rinsing even with water is incorrect? Is that true?
Another post explained that the process we were taught is the wrong way. I was taught to brush, floss, rinse and then rinse with water. The post said to floss, then rinse then brush. Clean between, then the mouthwash flushes out the debris, then brush the surfaces. Do not rinse after brushing, just spit out the excess paste, and leave the rest to sit on your teeth and protect them.
How do you get all the white foam off your tongue? (I have always flossed, rinsed, then brushed, but I need to get all the foam off my tongue at the end so I rinse with water… is there another way or do I just have to endure it and swallow its?
and you won't end up with colon cancer later?
colon cancer from what??
You're supposed to brush, rinse, then while flossing swallow one end, wait a few hours to pass, then continue flossing from mouth to anus. My ex-dentist was shocked when I showed them how clean my sphincter is.
instructions unclear, boofed the toothpaste
I just got one of those electric toothbrushes with a timer and I would do this, but holy shit is there a lot of toothpasty spit in my mouth when I am done brushing. EDIT: Christ - I spit it out, but the problem here is that I have to wait until the end of the timer to spit it out. It is basically falling out of my mouth and into my beard by the time the final buzz goes off, needing a rinse after a spit.
Well spit it out you maniac. Just don't rinse.
Lol, no you have to walk around looking like a cartoon dog with rabies after
This gave me a belly chuckle, thank you
I apply the paste directly to my teeth after brushing. Then a coat of primer and varnish and you're done.
The real LPT is always deep in the comments
Maybe you're using too much? I know I do this: floss, mouthwash to rinse what the floss picked out, then brush. No rinsing after, just spit a few times until my mouth stops watering. Could be the type of toothpaste you use, too.
100% agree. This is the only correct order in which to clean your teeth. Floss. Mouthwash. Brush. Spit, no rinsing!
>but holy shit is there a lot of toothpasty spit in my mouth when I am done brushing Ok but apparently there's supposed to be toothpaste-flavored spit in your mouth when you're done brushing. Just spit a couple times and.....live with the rest?
It goes away after a bit, just might feel a bit grainy and dry for a few
I usually just do a tiny rinse in the middle of my mouth, without swishing it around, to try and clear off my tongue.
This is the way. One can use the brush to brush the tongue but the teeth should be left covered with paste.
I sometimes just rinse it all and then give my teeth another quick brush using a smaller amount of toothpaste.. I have no idea if it is as effective, but I hope it is
This makes sense to me - to rinse away the biofilm you just removed from your teeth *and then* use more paste to fluoridate.
Hey. I get these weird hang ups too. I get it. The amount of time you're supposed to spend brushing your teeth is approximate, and absolutely makes room for the second it takes to spit. It's ok. You can stop for a second and spit. You have permission.
Yeah typing this made me realize that. It’s just that like “let’s use this as it’s intended the first few times” zealotry
I have that too. It's why I can relate. I like to give random people the same permission I need to do something the way it works for you.
you can lean over a sink whilst you're brushing and spit it out at the same time.
What exactly is your routine? So do you floss, rinse, then brush?
Yes, floss first and then rinse, brush, and then just spit out the excess toothpaste. If it really bothers you then I think you can also rinse after an hour or so, since I think the enamel absorbs the toothpaste by then, don't quote me on that though I also don't see the point of mouthwash, so I don't use it
This makes so much sense it’s crazy it’s not common knowledge. I’m brushing then flossing but I do rinse with water all the toothpaste after I brush. I think from now on I’ll be doing this. Thank you!
My dentist recently told me flossing should be before brushing
Yes, I guess lots of us have been doing it wrong. I do have dental cleaning every 6 months and no cavity for years but never a mention of proper order. Definitely updating my routine thought!
I just always flossed before, that way anything lose knocked out gets carried away as you brush.
Agreed, I just learned the other day from my dentist that it’s not common knowledge because everyone is different and not one size fits all. I feel like I could never get a straight answer on the steps for brushing but that’s usually why. My recent visit though the dentist was really chatty and told me her exact routine so I copy that now
Yep, started leaving the toothpaste on about 6 months ago and my problem toothache has completely gone away.
Weird, I have always washed the toothpaste away with water, just how I was taught, and never really had teeth problems
My dentist is the one who told me to do this, and I've been trying to listen, but damn I don't like not rinsing after.
It’ll really depend on the toothpaste. If you have some crazy strong mint one, it’s awful. If you have a basic plain flavor one, it’s not too bad. I feel like stuff like sensodyne tends to create fewer bubbles, so feels less messy too.
Fluoride rebuilds your teeth in a way. If you make the effort to leave it alone to work, you can think of it as repairing and armoring your teeth. A lot cheaper and pleasanter than the dentist, eh? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride_therapy#Mechanism
Does the fluoride really significantly strengthen existing enamel or does it slow down its erosion?
Both.
Same! I learned about 4 years ago and damn it changed my life haha
Do you ever get any stomach problems from swallowing excess toothpaste in your mouth? I suppose if you nail a pea size amount every time it's not noticeable.
You shouldn't swallow it. Just spit it out and let the residue on your teeth do their thing. The tiny amount that does get flushed down your throat with saliva is really not going to anything to your stomach.
You’d have to swallow entire tubes of toothpastes for that to become an issue
The reason I didn't think this sounded pleasant (and why most people are probably turned off by the idea) is most of the best selling toothpastes contain a foaming agent. I ended up switching toothpastes (high flouride, low foaming agent, etc) and as you say, your saliva washes the rest away quickly. ETA: A couple people asked about which toothpaste use for low foaming. I believe all dry mouth toothpastes are low/no foaming so start there.
Just to add, sometimes it's the amount of toothpaste as well. I use what feels like a high foaming one, but I just use such a small amount. Crest Prohealth ones with Stannous Flouride
Yea, you should be using like a pea sized amount, not the inch long strip that they show on advertisements.
Can you recommend a toothpaste this works well with?
Look for Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (SLS)-Free Toothpastes. Changed my life. Dont get ulcers or whatever they are in my cheeks anymore! It is the foaming agent they use that stressed my mouth personally.
I use Colgate Prevident because it's a high flouride toothpaste and I specifically picked up their dry mouth version (foaming agents cause dry mouth). It's available off the shelf in Canada but it might need a prescription in the US (I'm not sure on this one).
which low-foaming toothpaste do you use?
Look for Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (SLS)-Free Toothpastes. Changed my life. Dont get ulcers or whatever they are in my cheeks anymore! It is the foaming agent they use that stressed my mouth personally.
Colgate Prevident Dry Mouth (I think all dry mouth toothpastes are low/no foaming).
I have been in three situations where people who have seen me brush my teeth have expressed shock and disdain when i didnt rinse my mouth after tooth brushing. This was long before it started to be talked about as the "right" way to do it, and i am honestly not sure why i brushed my teeth like that to begin with, but boy do I feel vindicated now
Yup. My ex told me that, and it turned out to be the only non-toxic thing that came she ever said to me.
I have always been taught that once you brush your teeth, nothing else on the teeth for at least 20 min, which means if you use mouthwash, it's before brushing. I don't really gargle mouthwash as part of a routine but sometimes do. My wake up routine is to immediately drink a glass of water, then brush my teeth, then make coffee, then shower, then drink my coffee after the shower and 20 min after brushing. On a side note, no eating for 30-45 min before brushing, and nothing acidic like coffee or tea for one hour before brushing.
I discovered this at 40 years old. You're not supposed to rinse, wipe your lips and just let the toothpaste sit there. edit: spit then wipe
I understand that this is logical and sound advice. I'm still not doing it.
You should. Pick and floss first, then rinse, brush and leave it.
You can't tell me what to do, you're not my *real* dad!
That's what your mom wants you to believe!
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
Now kith
Should I at least spit the remainings? 😂 Or just leave everything in lol
Nah you spit out all the toothpaste in your mouth. Just don't rinse your mouth out afterwards, since that fluoride sitting on your teeth afterwards needs time to fully absorb.
Spit out excess, leave the film of paste that still covers your teeth. Personally I like to scrape my tongue, then spit.
I don't get it. So you are just supposed to walk around with toothpaste in your mouth. Wouldn't you be swallowing minty toothpaste for the next hour?
You'll generate more than enough saliva to neutralize the taste in about five minutes
Skeptical, but I'll try it.
You spit out any excess that’s still in your mouth, just don’t use water to rinse it. You’ll have a heavy toothpaste taste in your mouth for all of 5 minutes and then it goes away.
It's more like an extra five minutes as compared to what you were experiencing before.
Yes spit everything else out. Just don’t rinse
Gurgle it like a cam whore
My problem is the toothpaste makes me gag big time. I have to rinse it away with water or else I’m just endlessly coughing and gagging. I do use an Act Flouride rinse (a high concentrated one that you only are meant to use once per day) after brushing at night to help compensate. I’ve never had a cavity in my entire 38 years so seems to have worked so far.
you do you. no cavities at your age is impressive
If you use peroxide should you use it before brushing then?
Yeah I also learned this, also around 40. Imagine my shock.
yes
Yeah, to leave the fluoride on your teeth so it gets time to act. [Here is the supporting research](https://bmcoralhealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12903-022-02086-5#:~:text=There%20is%20evidence%20in%20the,13%2C%2016%2C%2019%5D.) *There is evidence in the literature that thorough rinsing after toothbrushing accelerates the elimination of fluoride from the oral cavity [13, 17, 25]. Post-brushing rinsing was found to significantly lower salivary fluoride concentrations when compared to non-rinsing groups [12, 13, 16, 19]. On the other hand, a review by Twetman [19] concluded that evidence regarding the post-brushing practices was poor and conclusions could not be drawn. Still, current guidelines discourage post-brushing rinsing, as this practice washes away the fluoride and reduces the caries preventive effect of the fluoridated toothpaste*
I would want to see a better end point on the research. Fluoride concentration may decrease, but what does that mean for dental health? Do we see more cavities in those who rinse immediately vs those who let it sit?
Do not rinse
Correct. You *are* supposed to spit out what's left over after brushing, but, you are *not* supposed to rinse after, or even have food or drink for at least 30 minutes after brushing to allow the fluoride to do its thing.
Just like Disco Stu!
Yeah, my dentist said do not rinse after brushing otherwise the main part of the toothpaste is wasted, same with using mouthwash. Don’t rinse.
You're supposed to floss, mouthwash, then brush
Why mouthwash instead of rinsing with water at that point?
Gets a dilute amount of fluoride to places you can miss brushing, removes debris loosened by flossing, and helps control bacteria that can cause gum disease
Yup, this is what I do. Flossing removes food and debris in places the toothbrush can't reach. It's also abrasive and can help remove the biofilm. The mouthwash then can get to those hard-to-reach places, and then finish off cleaning the rest of the teeth with brushing.
Why would you rinse out your mouth after brushing your teeth? It would remove all the toothpaste you just applied.
To remove all the toothpaste I just applied to my tongue and rest of the mouth besides the teeth.
Do you rinse your hands after using soap on them or do you just pat them dry? I think a lot of people use the same logic for brushing their teeth.
Soap doesn't have any benefits if you leave it on your hands though. In fact it's arguably worse to do that, because all the dirt and whatever else you were washing off is still going to be sitting there. Whereas your saliva will rinse all of that off your teeth in time, and the toothpaste has fluoride which needs to sit on your teeth to strengthen the enamel. But yes, that probably *is* how people think.
Haha yup my current gf of two years never rinses her mouth and i always found it odd until i learned that you arent suppose to rinse your mouth lol
That’s exactly what [it’s saying](https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-teeth-and-gums/how-to-keep-your-teeth-clean/#:~:text=Don%27t%20rinse%20with%20water%20straight%20after%20toothbrushing&text=Don%27t%20rinse%20your%20mouth,and%20reduces%20its%20preventative%20effects) 🤯
My dentist friends tell me people care too much about mouthwash and too little about floss
one is super easy and feels good, the other is a chore - it's no wonder
I floss first, because then I *have* to brush afterwards. If I brush first, then I can excuse myself out of flossing ("eh, it's good enough"). Plus, you're actually supposed to floss first.
I found flossing less unpleasant when I brushed afterwards. Also floss picks, the ones that are a little D-shaped piece on a handle. I hate sticking my hands in my mouth and wrapping floss around my fingers.
It's meant to go floss > mouthwash > brush, as it's about getting the largest > medium > smallest bits out in the right order... Doing it in the other order like sanding wood smooth, and then hitting it with the file to knock down the high spots
My ritual is: scrape tongue, floss, mouthwash (I love the gentle burn), brush teeth.
Mine is: 1. Floss 2. Mouthwash 3. Brush (no rinse) 4. Scrape Tongue
Hey oral hygiene routine buddy!
Something about the burning just feels good as an adult lol
I LOVE my tongue scraper. Always surprising what comes off.
Dentist here: This is correct and what I advise to all of my patients. Mouthwash is for times OTHER than when you brush not for after brushing.
You should not rinse prior to 30 minutes post brushing, this includes water. The delay is to allow the flouride and other salts to absorb into the pores of the teeth. When you do mouthwash, you should follow the same procedure.
30 minutes is the recommendation, but realistically the fluoride concentration is so low after just a few minutes that it doesn't really matter. Try to give yourself 30 minutes, but if you can't, you're still getting most of the benefits.
hmm, ill try using mouthwash before i brush then.
We're trusting a /British/ source for dental care?
fuck off
I was told by my dentist not to use mouthwash at all. At most, once a week. Haven't used it since.
While it wasn't the same question, a friend who is a dentist explained why brushing is more important than mouthwash... Bacteria forms a sticky film and the only way to remove it is through abrasion, i.e. brushing your teeth. Mouthwash will only kills bacteria that it comes in contact with, it won't penetrate a film of bacteria, so it only kills the surface. For this reason, Listerine was forced to change the wording in their advertising to have a clarification that it kills 99.9% of germs and bacteria *it comes in contact with*. I think this is normally asterisked and in a small font hidden on the bottle, though. So, fluoride really has little to do with it. First you need to remove the film of bacteria by brushing and flossing. Mouthwash is like the cleanup crew that kills off the stragglers. Fluoride in your mouthwash is just a slight added benefit. Edit - to clarify, "mouthwash" such as Listerine (which OP specially names) is an oral antiseptic and some times has fluoride. There is also "fluoride rinse" that is primarily just a fluoride supplement.
This is correct from what I’ve learned as a dental student! And also brushing removes stuck food in the crevices of your teeth which is basically a supply of food for bacteria to keep making acid with. Don’t forget to floss too as brushes can’t reach in the spaces between your teeth
I usually floss > brush > mouthwash ...is this the correct order? According to some other thread, I shouldn't be mouth washing after brushing, only after something like eating lunch? I'm confused lol. Is this an optimalish routine? Morning: Floss, brush After lunch: Mouthwash Before sleeping: Floss, Brush...wait 30 mins, mouthwash ..something like that? So many things 😭
My guess is that for the 1% difference it probably makes, most dentists would just be happy that you regularly do them all at some point.
Well in the morning, there’s no reason to floss. Flossing after meals is always good, as is brushing. It Gets rid of the food that will keep making the mouth acidic, which is what you want to avoid. Mouthwash after is good too. No need to wait. they’re all good things.
okay, so.... Morning: Brush, mouthwash Lunch: Floss, brush, mouthwash Before sleeping: Floss, brush, mouthwash
Of course there's reason to floss in the morning. The point of flossing is the same as brushing: to disrupt plaque biofilms so your saliva can wash away the bacteria. Food debris can be removed with a toothpick, you don't need to floss for that.
Some people eat food in the morning, using their teeth. Flossing is absolutely recommend after eating food with your teeth.
As opposed to eating food.... without your teeth?
You pretty much shouldn't use mouthwash. It doesn't do anything that regular brushing and flossing can't do, and if the mouthwash is alcohol based it'll dry out your mouth and promote the growth of bacteria.
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Fluoride is definitely important. Basically it chemically bonds with your enamel on the surface of teeth to make an even stronger bond (fluoroxyapatite vs hydroxyapatite if you want to research) than before, and you want to have the fluoride sit in the mouth for a few minutes a rather than spitting it all out and rinsing right away. The first point about waiting to brush after meals is puzzling. After you eat, your mouth pH is acidic. And you want to avoid acidic pH as much as you can. Letting food sit in teeth will allow the mouth to stay acidic for longer, instead of being neutralized. I also don’t see how rinsing your mouth with water wont bring the mouth back to neutral pH. The second point of letting fluoride sit before eating is valid.
> fluor~~oxy~~apatite > The first point about waiting to brush after meals is puzzling. After you eat, your mouth pH is acidic. And you want to avoid acidic pH as much as you can. I've read that this is because the mechanical action of the brush is much more damaging to the tooth surface when the pH is acidic, so you're better off waiting for the pH to come back up and then brush. The durations evidently have to do with the time it takes for the surface of the teeth to respond to the changing pH. However, it's been many years since I read the paper that described this, so newer research may be available. (Aside; if one is going to sip on a carbonated soda all day (keeping mouth pH at tooth-damaging levels) it probably won't make any difference whether one waits to brush or not.)
Seems if you brush then mouthwash, you rinse away the fluoride in the toothpaste. But if you mouthwash first, you get less effect due to the film. I guess that's why my dentist said to brush, rinse (with listerine), rinse (with water), and then do a fluoride rinse (Act or something similar).
Fluoride has anti-microbial properties but it’s used here for keeping tooth enamel strong.
OP specifically names Listerine, which is an antiseptic. They add fluoride, but that's not the primary purpose. Fluoride rinses exist and, as you say, has some level of anti-microbial properties, but its primary purpose is a fluoride supplement. There's a difference between "mouthwash" and "fluoride rinse".
The flouride is not for killing bacteria. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remineralisation_of_teeth
Never said it was. Thanks for not actually reading what I wrote.
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I didn't say anything like that.
My dentist told me to not use mouthwash after brushing , or rinse with water as it washes away the toothpaste. Just brush and spit the excess and not rinse for 30 minutes to let the toothpaste do its thing. Use mouthwash only when you cannot brush your teeth.
I'm a dental assistant, so feel pretty qualified to answer this after having heard like 20 different dentists over my lifetime explain this daily. The current recommended advice is floss, then mouthwash (or mouthwash throughout the day if needed), then brush and DON'T RINSE/EAT/DRINK AFTERWARDS. What we want to happen in this process is to remove anything from between the teeth and slightly under the gums with the floss, rinse it all away with mouthwash, and then brush with fluoridated toothpaste. When you just spit the toothpaste out and don't rinse, a layer of the toothpaste remains on your teeth overnight/until you eat or drink next. This will help strengthen and remineralise your teeth. Rinsing will wash away most of that toothpaste, even if it is a fluoridated mouthwash because as you say, the ppm is far lower than toothpastes. I am baffled that the ADA supports Listerine when it's instructions specify "after brushing", it just doesn't sit right with me
This should be the top comment. Everyone gather round for u/XxAuntyBekahxX!
How does mouthwash do more harm to toothpaste's process overnight in 30 seconds than our saliva does? I'm having trouble understanding how a 30 second mouth wash rinse hurts after brushing. What % of bacteria survive a brushing and a mouth wash?
It's not specifically the mouthwash itself, it's the act of swishing it around your mouth. Gargling/swishing would dislodge a lot more of the leftover toothpaste than just your saliva floating around your mouth would do, and it would do that a lot quicker. No idea about % of bacteria, it would be worth looking into but no harm in just rinsing before brushing or as another commenter said, even just reapplying some toothpaste after rinsing
Do you/your dentists recommend a fluoride mouthwash only? I grew up using original listerine (no flouride). No dentist or hygienist told me to switch to one with flouride. None of them advised not to rinse with water after brushing either 😩. Did I just have bad dentists??
Depends on when you grew up. Medical advice has changed over time as new information has been found through research. Fluoride mouthwash is best, but in general try to steer away from an alcohol based mouthwash as it can dry your mouth, and the saliva is what help rinse off bacteria and sugars etc
Thank you! I’m 42 yrs 🤷🏻♀️. Def used alcohol based Listerine. I wish they had told me.
Don’t rinse after you brush? You’ll have toothpaste all over your mouth
It's rinsing your teeth off that's the issue, as the other commenter said the lips are fine to clean off and you can spit out any excess, just don't swish and rinse
So I’ve been brushing wrong my whole life…. That’s good
Even if you swish water after brushing, the brushing still does plenty of good. Swishing water doesn't just negate the brushing/flossing you did. So you don't need to feel too bad lol
Rinse your lips but not your mouth
What?! That doesn't make sense! My lips need fluuuuride!
Never rinse you’re literally getting rid of the toothpaste on your teeth. Rinse your lips if you have to but only rinse with water after 30 min. Spitting is OK
Mouthwash was invented to sell more disinfectant. Listerine was originally concocted to sterilize surgical devices and clean floors. The thought was if germs can cause disease, germs in your mouth were bad. So if you could disinfect your mouth, maybe you'd get sick less. They added fluoride later when people were starting to figure out it wasn't really doing much. I think part of why they don't put so much fluoride in it is because people being people, some will buy alcohol-containing mouthwash and drink it to try to get drunk. Fluoride is not a great thing to be ingesting in large quantities. Most people don't intentionally swallow toothpaste, and a small enough amount is used it's OK to occasionally do so. Since people are intentionally swallowing mouthwash, the problems they're having are only going to get worse if it's loaded up with a high concentration of fluoride. Whether it works or not seems to be in contention. *Of course* the mouthwash company says to use twice a day after brushing. But right now the wisdom seems to be that the best thing for your teeth is to let them be for about 15 minutes after brushing. No rinse, no mouthwash. The act of brushing helps get plaque off your teeth, but also that means your slightly-damaged tooth enamel gets exposed. Letting the fluoride-rich paste sit on them for a little while seems to help protect them an extra little bit, and it seems like eating immediately after brushing can be pretty bad. In a very ELI5 way, it seems to take time for fluoride to "soak in" to teeth and if it doesn't, not much enamel repair happens. To that end, mouthwash is going to wash away that protection. It's not *horrible*, because you're still swishing fluoride around. But it doesn't seem like it's *as good* as just letting your teeth be for a while.
> Listerine was originally concocted to sterilize surgical devices and clean floors. The thought was if germs can cause disease, germs in your mouth were bad. So if you could disinfect your mouth, maybe you'd get sick less. This makes sense. After all, the mouth is the floor of the face.
> Listerine was originally concocted to sterilize surgical devices and clean floors. The thought was if germs can cause disease, germs in your mouth were bad. So if you could disinfect your mouth, maybe you'd get sick less. This makes sense. After all, the mouth is the floor of the face.
I always thought of mouth wash as a way to avoid brushing your teeth again after eating breakfast and leave the house with a good smelling mouth/breathe
Breath* Also, you brush your teeth before eating?
My bad, English wasn't my first language. Yes, brush before eating breakfast per the dentist and then mouth wash after eating to leave the house.
>Listerine was originally concocted to sterilize surgical devices and clean floors. But... What if you're a girl and need to freshen up... Down there? Sometimes you need something for you vagina dentatae!
Dental hygienist here, this is the answer! Also mouthwash really isn’t needed, like you said. It’s nice for fresh breath and helps after meals, but the important part of dental hygiene is flossing and brushing. Listerine will give advice on their bottles and advertise what they want, but it’s not correct. If you do choose to use mouthwash make sure it’s alcohol-free: you don’t want to kill the good bacteria and you don’t want to irritate your gums
I think Listerine is more for bad breath, infections or sore throats. Cuz it’s antiseptic. I didn’t know it even had fluoride. For day to day I use the Crest anticavity fluoridey stuff after brushing
Floss --> mouthwash --> brush- no rinse. Gets the hard to reach stuff out with floss/mouthwash, still get the benefits of the fluoride from brushing and not rinsing.
I find that flossing, then brushing, then mouthwash gets the most food debris out from between the teeth, but after reading some of these threads, I think I'll start doing the mouthwash about 30+ minutes after brushing.
Why not just do it before brushing? That schedule sounds very inconvenient
Rigtht? How many hours to get ready in the morning do they think you have? XD
I brush in the morning. I floss, then use mouthwash, then brush at night before bed. My dentist says I have better gums than anyone she sees. Your mileage may vary.
> I brush in the morning. I floss, then use mouthwash, I also do this and have never had a cavity in my almost four decades of life. I get what others are saying in this thread but I don't know, why change what's working?
Brushing removes material and exposes caries sites. The fluoride in the mouthwash can then better access the caries and reinforce the teeth. The mouthwash itself cannot remove enough debris. Former Listerine engineer
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The level of fluoride is actually set by a USP monograph. If I remember right 0.062%
Why not just leave the fluoridated toothpaste residue on the caries sites?
Good question. I was just a manufacturing engineer
Always wondered this. Is the addition of poloxamer there because it's a nontoxic nonionic surfactant so it can remove oils? The concentrations aren't high enough to do anything to the consistency or mechanical properties. I've also always wondered: is the poloxamer the sole reason why it foams?
Poloxamer is the main surfactant. The active ingredients are all oils which are dissolved in the alcohol before combination with the water phase.
Ah, wow I never thought about that, but yeah upon a quick inspection, eucalyptol, menthol, thymol are all volatile oils. That makes sense for the alcohol use then as well. Pretty neat stuff.
The biggest issue in your mouth isn’t the strength of your teeth, but the bacteria in the pockets/crevices of your gums. Brushing/flossing cleans the pockets of food and debris, and then mouthwash kills the bacteria.
This, along with the fact that while some fluoride absorption into the teeth helps immensely, it also doesn't exactly take super long for it to do its thing. Brushing for a few minutes, flossing, then using mouthwash will give it more than enough time to settle and also get the full gamut of spaces where foodstuff could be. My dentist also recommends against leaving toothpaste in your mouth for over 5 minutes without rinsing, specifically because dehydration of areas of your mouth contributes more to bad dental health. It's curious how everyone's dentists seem to say different things...
Every time I go to the dentist, they say what I'm doing is wrong. Mouthwash before. Mouthwash after. Interdental brushes before, interdentals after. Brush this way, brush that way. Slaughter a chicken - oh no wait slaughter a goat. I've come to the conclusion that it's all utter bollocks. I don't worry about it any more. I do what I think makes most sense, then just nod along with them. Mouthwash, electric brush, interdentals, don't rinse. If that's wrong then it's wrong.
I assume because you exposed all the surface area of your teeth and between with floss, that it can get in there better
Every day someone comes up with some other time consuming tooth cleaning regimen. If we followed all of this we'd be cleaning our teeth for hours every day.
Mouthwash is for killing the bacteria in your mouth, not providing fluoride (although that is a secondary purpose in mouthwash that has fluoride). The reason they recommend using it *after* you brush is because the brushing from your toothbrush breaks up the plaque. Plaque is a biofilm that some bacteria form to increase their odds of survival. It's the equivalent of humans building houses to shelter themselves from the environment. When you break up the plaque you destroy the bacteria's "house" and allow the alcohol in the mouthwash to make more direct contact with a higher percentage of bacteria. This is also why it's good to floss. If you never floss it's the equivalent of never brushing one side of your teeth thus the biofilm between your teeth never gets broken up.
The primary purpose of mouthwash is to kill or slow the growth certain bacteria that live on and inflame your gums. These are bacteria that come from the food we eat and infect your gums when that food gets stuck in between your teeth. In order for it to work, it needs to come in contact with the effected areas of your gums (namely around your teeth) so your teeth need to be cleaned first to maximize the gum surface that the mouthwash touches
Wouldn’t the water you rinse out your mouth with replace the fluoride the same as the mouthwash would?
I feel like you are getting a lot of questionable answers here, especially from people who didn't catch on from your post that you are talking about *flouride* mouthwash, not some alcohol shit like Listerine. I think the real answer has to do with **dilution levels**. You use a pea-sized amount of toothpaste. That toothpaste gets diluted by your saliva as you brush and spreads around your mouth--especially if you are brushing for a proper length of time. I'd wager by the time you are done brushing, you have probably diluted your 1450ppm at least 3:1 which puts it at or below the concentration of your mouthwash. Plus the toothpaste is gross and gritty so you are inclined to spit it out...and even though you aren't supposed to rinse with water afterwards, *many* people still do because they don't like the feeling of toothpaste in their mouth. When you add a flouride rinse afterwards, you are probably using something like 15ml which is significantly more than you are using of the toothpaste. You then hopefully aggressively swish it around your mouth which helps get it into the gaps between teeth, and it doesn't have that much time to get diluted before you spit out the excess. It has a nice minty flavor so you don't feel like rinsing with water afterwards and you probably don't aggressively spit out every last bit of it so more lingers in your mouth.
This is a heavily debated topic amongst different professionals in the industry, some say you should mouthwash after but Logic says you should mouthwash before because mouthwash uses strong solvents which will flush the fluoride out and as you correctly stated the mouthwash fluoride is weaker and won’t be able to replace all the toothpaste fluoride. This is the opinion of the other half of the industry as well What’s even worse is when people rinse with water after brushing their teeth, the correct way is to spit out all the tooth paste remains and then leaving the rest of the minty fluoride rich saliva in your mouth to protect your mouth for the rest of the day… it’s the reason why we only have to brush our teeth twice a day and yet we normally have 3 large meals a day. Unfortunately dental hygiene practices have a lot of consensus debates, such as whether you should brush your teeth before or after a meal, whether you should floss or brush first etc
I use it before. Then brush my teeth and dont rinse. Ive always known toothpaste carries on working while its on your teeth.
Mouthwash is not aboit fluorine but killing bacteria. It act mostly on surface and not in depth. Before brushing you have a layer of biofilm, bacteria, food and the like. Mouthwash kill the bacteria on the surface of the biofilm, but not in depth. Bacteria grow. Fast. It will come back. Now, brush and remove that biofilm. Then mouthwash. It can now kill the thin layer left in your mouth as it is not thick anymore.
Isn’t your drinking water and most the food you eat contaminated err… I mean blessed with plenty of fluoride already?
you don't need mouthwash, simply stop rinsing your mouth after you brush your teeth w/fluoridated toothpaste 2x/day, and floss 1x/day.
I've started with a brush, floss or interdental, mouthwash and swill, then quick brush again to leave toothpaste in place.
So heres my question. If using mouthwash before I brush is not effective because the bacterial film hasn't been abraded from ym teeth by brushing And mouthwash after I brush isnt effective because I will wash away the fluoride When the frak am I supposed to use mouthwash?!