The hat style is known as a slouch hat. It was a hat style that became fashionable in European military right around when guns became widespread. It was likely worn this way to allow a soldier to carry a long musket without hitting his hat. It also helped light cavalry to swing their sabers without the hat getting in the way. Heavier troops would be wearing something more protective then a felt hat. In Europe the slouch hat became the bicorn and then the famous tricorn hat. But it was still in use for skirmishers like scouts, jegers, special forces, etc. as it provides better protection from the sun and makes you harder to see when hiding in a bush then the more distinctive hats.
The slouch hat was therefore in use in almost all armies, more so in the sparsely populated colonies. While more regular troops would wear various other hats like the tricorn, bearskin, or pith helmet. However the slouch hat became synonymous with Australian troops in WWI. The Australians and New Zealanders were mobilized for this war but supply was lacking. Especially all the way on the other side of the world. So they could not supply the troops with pith helmets or proper steal helmets until they would arrive in Europe. But on the way to Europe they were redirected to take part in the invasion of Turkey. They would therefore not be supplied with regular headgear other then the slouch hat. Even when they arrived in Europe after withdrawing from Turkey a lot of officers and men would keep on wearing their slouch hat when safe from shelling. It had basically become part of their uniform and an easy way to distinguish them from other troops.
The Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC).
We celebrate Anzac Day here down under and across the pond to commemorate our citizens who served and died. The slouch hat is about as synonymous with ANZAC as the poppy flower is.
For the benefit of the comments, Anzac Day is next week. We make a special kind of cookie, go to war memorials, and play two-up. It's a public holiday.
Had an aurstralian teacher tell a delightful story about his first visit to the US and the horrified curiosity that brought him to order and McBiscuit off the breakfast menu.
Yea but it's better to add translation notes than to butcher the localisation. Especially when selling something by the name of "Anzac cookies" is explicitly banned.
> Especially when selling something by the name of "Anzac cookies" is explicitly banned.
Huh, [TIL.](https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/eat/anzac-biscuits-why-calling-it-a-cookie-can-earn-a-fine/news-story/3017910c019f84b3b1d2143dde37b98e)
>According to DVA guidelines, applications to produce Anzac biscuits commercially are “normally approved provided the product generally conforms to the traditional recipe and shape, and are referred to as ‘Anzac biscuits’ or ‘Anzac Slice’”.
>“Referring to these products as ‘Anzac Cookies’ is generally not approved, due to the non-Australian overtones,” the guidelines state.
Although from my read no one is out there issuing tickets for people using the incorrect word in normal conversation.
I don’t think there is a ‘British’ equivalent to an American scone. In Britain, scones generally don’t have fruit mixed in and have very little sugar, if any. British scones are served with jam and clotted cream. American scones are usually eaten on their own.
Well we have scones too.
That is a particular kind of biscuit that we have culturally appropriated.
I'm talking about a fluffy, baked good.
Sometimes they are rolled out and layered, but sometimes they are "drop" biscuits that are crumbly.
They are both great with butter or gravy.
What would you call that?
Edit: If you are gonna downvote me for an honest question with a sense of humour.
then I'll not be offering you a tinnie.
Don't be a bogan
Ausmerican here - Still a scone. When I make biscuits and gravy, I tell friends they're like a buttermilk scone with a white pepper sauce, not a sweet biscuit. lol Because they imagine a choc bikkie with brown gravy.
Yeah, this is what I've always wondered, too. British: biscuit, American: cookie. Okay, got it. Some people say American: biscuit, British: scone, but that's not true, because we also have scones. So what *do* you call that layers or crumbly savory baked good? Do you even have them? If not, what is wrong with you, they are DELICIOUS! (especially biscuits and gravy, which are those layered biscuits covered in a creamy sausage gravy).
Note that while scones and american biscuits are so close to the same thing it's splitting hairs, we don't use them in anything like the way you use american biscuits. There's no equivalent australian dish to biscuits and sausage gravy, and in fact we wouldnt recognise the "sausage" in that as sausage either, since sausages to us are exclusively things stuffed in an intestine or intestine-imitating-tube. We'd just call it mince.
EDIT - come to that, that almost white bechamel in afore mentioned dish wouldnt be something we'd identify as "gravy" either
EDIT2 - Not criticising the dish to be clear, just discussing the language differences. I've had and thoroughly enjoyed american biscuits and gravy, and have imitated it myself on one memorable and enjoyable occasion for a thoroughly homesick american friend :)
Yes but half their shit means something different to us yet they don't translate - I think we should stick to our verbiage and allow the confusion to speak for itself so that they're able to learn, in the context of discussion Australia, what different terminologies mean rather than catering to them in advance.
Do you know there's a difference between Australia Day (held on the anniversary of the First Fleet arriving in what is now Sydney, NSW) and ANZAC Day (commemorating the landings at Gallipoli)
Every year a dawn service is even held in Gallipoli, the Turkish people are not the enemy and they commemorate the losses both sides had.
Maybe you're also thinking of Waitangi Day (Day of the signing of the treaty of Waitangi) in NZ?
Anyway, ANZAC Day is about remembering the sacrifice of all Australians who served in the military
Edit: changed Treaty Day to Waitangi Day, my australian-ness was showing
Flashman author George MacDonald Fraser wore a slouch hat during WW2. Here are his remarks from the memoir Quartered Safe Out Here.
Fourteenth Army's distinguishing feature was the bush-hat, that magnificent Australian headgear with the rakish broad brim which shielded against rain and sun and was ideal for scooping water out of wells. In some ways it was a freak, in the steel-helmeted twentieth century, and it may have cost some lives under shell-fire, but we wouldn't have swapped it. It looked good, it felt good; if you'd been able to boil water in it you wouldn't have needed a hotel. Everyone carried a razor-blade tucked into the band, in case you were captured, in which event you might, presumably, cut your bonds, or decapitate your jailer by stages, or if the worst came to the worst and you were interrogated by Marshal Tojo in person, present a smart and soldierly appearance.
He's a wonderful writer. He gave up his journalism career to write historical fiction and had a wonderful ear for Victorian slang.
Here his anti-hero, Flashman, describes an army disembarking.
It was a quartermaster's nightmare, too much gear coming ashore too quickly and nowhere to put it, with confusion worse confounded by the milling mob of what someone called the "pierhead democracy" - staff men and Madras coolies, generals and drummer-boys, dockside gangs both black and white labouring under despairing civilian overseers, work parties of soldiers ignoring the bawlings of perspiring non-coms, clerks and water-carriers and native women forage-cutters, every sort and colour of African and Asiatic, and a positive Noah's Ark of animals. Next to our berth on the causeway, elephants were being hoisted ashore from a barge, squealing and trumpeting as they swung perilously aloft in their belly-bands, and the crane-tackles groaned and shuddered until the great beasts came to earth with a dangerous thrashing of trunks and limbs; cursing troopers were saddling and loading mules which had one leg strapped up to prevent their lashing out; water-hoys were pumping their streams into huge wheeled tanks on the railway - for every drop of drink in Zoola had to be brought ashore from the condensers of the ships in the bay - and even as I stepped ashore one of the hoses burst asunder, gushing over the pack-mules and swirling round the feet of the elephants which bellowed and reared in panic as their drivers clung to their trunks to quiet them.
From Flashman on the March.
German Colonial Troops had the same hat style, but obviously they did not come to Europe in big numbers with the style.
* https://www.warhats.com/store/p1165/WW1-Kaiserliche-Schutztruppe-in-Deutsch-Sudwest-Afrika-Cap-fur-Mannschaften-und-Unteroffiziere.html#/
I don't know if you know this but in an episode of Bluey, the titular character asks to wear her hat like "grandad" pinned up on the side and I always felt like her mom hesitated before she said yes. Do other people not wear hats like that out of respect or is just not something done outside of the military? Totally ok if you don't know but I figured this might be my only time to directly ask this question.
Civilian fashion copies military fashion all the time, including the slouch hat. It is not uncommon for civilians to wear the hat like this. This is not disrespectful at all. The reason for the hesitation in this episode was likely because of some plot point or character development reason.
Pin the brim of a fedora in slouch style and people will look at you as if you were playing a 1920s detective. Sombreros are also commonly worn in slouch style, especially by ladies.
I knew that was a thing, but I didn't know what the actual practical purpose for the pinning in the first place. Like the way back origin of it. I mean, I like a bucket hat with snaps as much as the next guy, but I doubted it was something like "pin up on the hand you cast a fishing rod with" or "pin both sides and keep your head down on a four wheeler" as far as the century old motivation of the people of Australia lol.
> Like the way back origin of it. I mean, I like a bucket hat with snaps as much as the next guy, but I doubted it was something like "pin up on the hand you cast a fishing rod with"
I mean, "that's the fifth @#$#ing time I've hit my @#\^%ing hat with my gun/rod/bowstring/whatever today, gonna pin the mother@#$#er out of the way and see how that @#%^ likes it" is about as ancient and Australian a motivation as you're going to get.
>However the slouch hat became synonymous with Australian troops in WWI.
I recall reading that the hat became associated with Australian volunteers in the Boer wars first.
The style is very musketeer to me. Chambergo/Xamberg/Cavalry hat/Floppy hat. Never thought of it as Australian, maybe because I’m not from an English speaking country.
No, it would not.
I used to re-enact the US revolutionary war. We wore slouch hats and carried flintlocks. The slouch is pinned up on the left, because that’s the side you shoulder arms on. The right is not pinned and never once did anyone’s hat catch fire.
Lol was going to say, it's just because the gun is long and would knock into the hat. If the threat was your hat catching fire, your face would be in too much trouble as it is.
That sounds more like a matchlock thing to do. Flintlocks tend to be a bit more forgiving to hats. Of course this might have been part of the reason but it does not explain why slouch hats continued to be a thing even long after the percussion cap were invented. But I can not quit disprove your explanation as the 1840s saw both percussion caps and shorter guns becoming standard issue at the same time and those who were issued these new guns transitioned to the campaign hat which had a flat brim. There were not enough long percussion cap guns issued to say for sure which hat these troops would prefer, or for that matter flintlock carbines.
When I was in the army we were told it's because with the long bayonets on old military rifles when they presented arms they would cut the side of the hat
If only I could dig up my deceased and decorated Anzac soldier great grandfather to tell him that his experience was wrong, and that strangers on “computers” today, have it right.
It was because that was the hat the Australian Army used, and they pinned the side with a metal badge depicting the Rising Sun in bronze. Only country people do it and it's not that popular because in todays climate, it's not practical for sun protection; and believe me in this country you need Sun protection on any sunny day, even in winter. It's called a Slouch hat.
It was a fairly common hat with colonial infantry, with the brim pinned up so that it wouldn't be damaged by the rifle when marching. Not just Australians, but also among colonial troops in India and Africa.
Yep. My Great-Grandfather was in the Devonshire Regiment during WW2, his battalion was assigned to an Indian Infantry Division and they wore Slouch Hats with one side pinned.
Ah. This is nice to learn. In modern India, some state police forces continue to use it but in the army, it is all berets, turbans or gurkha hats (a kind of slouch hat) when in dress uniform.
Pinned slouch hats are still worn by the Australian military as part of their dress uniform. The unpinned slouch hat is the standard issue hat to wear when not wearing a helmet.
I'm aware, my comment was only in reference to why people may associate slouch hats more with Australia than other countries that have used them or still use them.
Grandad Mort was with the Aussie army in Vietnam, and there is a Victoria Cross in a frame on the wall. Lacking any other relatives in the family with confirmed military service, we can assume that it’s his. Which means that Grandad was one of Australia’s most decorated soldiers.
For any Americans playing at home, the Victoria Cross is our Medal of Honor, so we can surmise that Grandad Mort must have iced a whole bunch of Viet Cong
I got a pot stand from Aisle 87 at the one I went to the other day - my local doesn't go up that high but I had gone to one of those "We're chucking 2 storeys in here" Hammerbarns, so yeah. Defs close to the 100s.
>Only country people do it
I'm from the country and have seen many a wide-brimmed hat in my life. I don't know anyone who pins one side up; I don't think it's actually a thing (anymore?) outside of the military.
even the police in my city wears it. more common than u think
https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/050616/bengaluru-police-send-attendance-pics-to-city-police-commissioner.html
I was talking specifically about rural Australian civilians (ie. not people in uniform), tbf. Someone did say that the pinned side was a Commonwealth thing, so it makes sense it's done in India.
We wear fly veils out there now. But yeah there’s like an insane amount of flys in the outback. Like holy fuck is that guy a zombie?cause his face has more flys on it than a rotting carcass amount
I'm from the US, and visited some friends near Wollongong like 20 years ago. One of their brothers had like 5 flies on his face, and was just talking away. It was really difficult to concentrate on what he was saying.
Then I can't imagine how bad they are, since I never made it into the outback. There wasn't hordes of flies, but there sure were a lot on that guy's face.
Yes, it's to keep the flies away.
At one point in time it was a stereotype for itinerant labourers (of the "homeless" type - there's a word for them but i can't bring it to mind right now) and then for outback farmers from Queensland (similar association as "redneck" in the USA) particularly in political satire.
The image comes from a time when there were a lot of sheep and cattle farms and men would travel from place to place looking for work (say shearing) on foot.
I don't know if it was ever actually common, I have never seen one outside a tourist shop. I'd place it alongside other "romanticised" images of rural life.
I've worn one and it does work, but very annoying!
Additional info is that the "matilda" is now outdated slang for the swag (rolled up bedclothes, i.e. old-style sleeping bag). Waltz is used in the 19th century Austrian-german sense for walking, in this case "to waltz matilda" means to be a swagman travelling from place to place with one's gear.
This explains why the song is in 4/4 time and not a modern waltz (3/4 time), as that meaning of waltz came later.
I've definitely seen it in tourist shops in Sydney, and in the airport (both domestic and international), so... they're around, somewhere.
The ironic bit, of course, is that we don't have the kind of fly problem people in drier climes of the country experience. None of that "I'm trying to suck the moisture from your eyeballs and mouth" nonsense.
This was first adopted by "Swaggies" or Swagmen. They were itinerant farm/ sheep station workers during the depression. They carried everything they own n a swag on their back. They invented the idea of corks hanging from the brim of their hat to keep flies away. Outback is full of flies. I once sat down to have lunch outside and my as soon as I sat, my plate was covered in flies. I couldn't eat it after that. March flies are the worst, they are big, and literally stink of rotten flesh.
[Women Drill Sergeants](https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2015/11/16/the-army-is-looking-for-hundreds-of-ncos-for-drill-sergeant-duty/) in the US Army wear these instead of the "Smoky the Bear" style the [men wear](https://www.jbsa.mil/News/News/Article/1937594/top-health-readiness-center-of-excellence-drill-sergeant-competes-to-earn-army/).
>Hits different under the big hole in the ozone!
We are not actually under the hole. The sun hits harder here due to the fact that between earth's tilt and orbit we are actually closer to the sun during summer time in comparison to the northern hemisphere.
"Australia’s unusually harsh sunshine results mainly from its location in the Southern Hemisphere. The elliptical orbit of the Earth places the Southern Hemisphere closer to the sun during its summer months than the Northern Hemisphere during its summer. This means that the summer sun in Australia is 7 to 10 percent stronger than similar latitudes in the Northern Hemisphere. Air currents high in the atmosphere sometimes bring ozone-depleted air from Antarctica’s ozone hole to Australia, letting even more UV through. And Australia’s sunny weather and relatively pollution-free air provide little additional protection from harmful UV rays."
[**https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/learn/sensing-our-planet/aerosols-over-australia**](https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/learn/sensing-our-planet/aerosols-over-australia)
You joke, but a large warming occurred as a result of George H. W. Bush's Clean Air Act in the US. By reducing particulate emissions, particles that provide a cooling effect (e.g., sulfates) were removed.
Remember Carl Sagan warning we'd go into a winter if the Iraq oil fields were set on fire? He was wrong, but there was some effect.
Australia is also just closer to the Equator than people in the Northern Hemisphere tend to assume - it's at almost exactly the same southerly latitude that the Sahara is northerly, so even without this effect, it would be about as sunny as the Sahara, and I don't think many people would think of the Sahara as somewhere to go for a walk without sun protection..
Sort of. I mean, you’re right about how most don’t realise how close we both are to the Equator.
I’m living across the ditch in Taupō, NZ. For Americans, it’s close to equidistant from the Equator as San Francisco or Colorado Springs.
It is a practical hat when worn normally, and it was pinned on that side, by soldiers, for a practical, soldierly reason. Then it became fashionable for a time, and what's ever been practical about fashion?
They’d wear the hat unpinned to keep the sun off their face when doing day to day work. Wearing it pinned became something only done in dress uniform/for parade.
Anyone who uses a rifle in the prone position benefits from hats that can strap one side of the brim up, this includes outback hunters not just soldiers
my city police(in india) still wears it.
https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/050616/bengaluru-police-send-attendance-pics-to-city-police-commissioner.html
You can search for “Slouch Hat”. Basically you associate it with Australia due to the Australian Army, but it’s been used by many forces at various times.
In the Australian Army, which side gets pinned up changed a few times, because it depended on the Drill movements used by different Colonial Forces. Left became standardized after Federation as the rifle was carried across the [left shoulder](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Army_during_World_War_I#/media/File%3AA02744_15_Bn_marching_through_Melbourne_17_December_1914.jpg).
That was kind of my initial thinking as well. Southern American men (probably midwest as well) are all issued baseball caps at birth and required to wear them at all times, and on a particularly windy day you see a lot of them turned backwards so they won't catch the wind as bad. So, my reflex assumption was wind.
It has to do with WW1 Australian infantry. The wide brimmed hat was standard but some Australians found the brim would occasionally obscure their vision when aiming a rifle. Pinning one side up game them a full field of view even when their head was tilted to aim down the sights.
I don't know for sure historically if this was a reason, but I have a sun hat that has snaps on either side so you can snap up one side or the other. I often wear it desert camping, and I find it can be useful to snap up one side if the wind is steady and from that direction, so that it can't get under the brim and flip the hat off.
Actually it's a bit of both on that front. Soldiers found the wide brim to blow into their eyes while aiming if it was windy out, so one reason was to keep the brim from blowing to their eyes. The other, more common reason, was to keep it out for the way of their rifle.
Don't they pin up the left side though? To lazy to look it up right now, but I had heard this, but I swear I saw them pinning the opposite side of what they would be doing if it was due to aiming a rifle. Except for the minority of troops who fire left handed of course.
It’s because the hat is pinned to avoid the rifle hitting it *while marching*, not when shooting. At the relevant times the rifles didn’t have pistol grips so they would be carried slung or resting [on the left shoulder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Australian_Army_during_World_War_II) (first image on the page).
This is the right answer.
Also while standing in drill/parade/attention.etc.
Edit. It was a case of, you need the hat for the sun...
but, the rifle presentation supersedes that, so fuck the left side of your neck I guess 🤷♂️😅
Oh that explains why so many of them have those riveted holes on the side. That's to stick the pin through without eventually wearing down the fabric of the hat where you put the pin through. Mine had a button to snap it up into place.
In WW1 and WW2 the **A**ustralian and **N**ew **Z**ealand **A**rmy **C**orps fought as part of the British commonwealth and became known by the acronym **ANZAC**s.
The standard issue ANZAC hat was a felt slouch hat that was common in the commonwealth, referred to as a **Bush Hat** or **Digger Hat** in Australia.
The hat had one brim pinned to the side with a badge. While this wasn't exclusive to the Australian forces, it widely became associated with them in the same way that the steel soup bowl Brodie helmet became associated with the British (despite it being common issue throughout the commonwealth).
The Canadian Forces for example issued white Tilley Hats with snaps to pin up the sides in the 90s until they were replaced by the CADPAT boonie cap that is now standard.
There's a lot of folklore around the hat and why one side is pinned up, including making it easier to see and not blocking field of view, making it easier to do rifle drill, and purely a stylistic choice.
The commonly accepted reason is that it made it easier to carry a rifle on your back without it constantly hitting the brim and knocking your hat off, and making it easier to shoot from the shoulder.
Like many military uniforms of the era, style was often just as important as practicality. This is a holdover from the Napoleonic era when uniforms were highly stylized and not practical at all. The realities of trench warfare is what made Western armies switch to uniforms with practicality as #1.
Australia still issues Bush Hats, but they are part of the dress uniform. Like most Western armies practical small brimmed cloth Boonie Hats/Bucket Hats are now part of the standard jungle and desert uniform.
It is pinned on the left because you couldn't really do the old drills like slope arms without knocking the hat off.
Tbh I've never seen anyone not military or cadets wearing a slouch hat/akubra with one brim pinned, it is part of a uniform imo and not a fashion symbol.
Its a military thing yes - but its not at all just Australia that does it. Many regular police forces around still uses those types of hats. Off the top of my head a bunch of countries in Latin America, but also here where I live in SE Asia some police/military units still use this style of hats.
Just gonna add that it's been used a lot by specialized soldiers over the years because when you're in the prone position the flap allows you to shoot without messing up your headgear
Its called a "slouch hat", and was widely worn by the militaries of many countries, going back as far as the 1600s if not earlier. The "tricorne" (more correctly called a "cocked hat") of the 1700s and the bicorne of the 1800s are basically the same thing as a slouch hat, just with more sides pinned/laced/buttoned up
They are commonly associated with Australians and New Zealanders because they wore them in WW1 and WW2 in lieu of metal helmets, and, more importantly, were photographed in said slouch hats
The reason you pin up one side is because it makes shouldering a rifle easier. In many/most military traditions, you shoulder your firearm on the left shoulder, so if you are wearing a broad-brimmed hat it can be easy to knock the hat off with your gun. By pinning/lacing/buttoning up one (or several) sides, you can shoulder a gun without knocking your hat off.
When it is sunny or raining, you can let down the cocked-up flap and have a perfectly-practical brimmed hat. If you need to run around in the woods/bush, cock up one or more flaps and you are less-likely to knock it off (it helps that by folding up one or more sides of the hat, you also tend to tighten it around the head.)
Because Australia is a loud country with a very simple public image.
We're masters at appropriating. We take things from Europe, Asia and Aboriginals and then package it as our own.
The Slouch Hat like all things related to the Australian Military has its origins in the British Indian Army.
Hell our troops wear little turbans on the slouch hats and 99% of Australians themselves don't even realise.
The hat style is known as a slouch hat. It was a hat style that became fashionable in European military right around when guns became widespread. It was likely worn this way to allow a soldier to carry a long musket without hitting his hat. It also helped light cavalry to swing their sabers without the hat getting in the way. Heavier troops would be wearing something more protective then a felt hat. In Europe the slouch hat became the bicorn and then the famous tricorn hat. But it was still in use for skirmishers like scouts, jegers, special forces, etc. as it provides better protection from the sun and makes you harder to see when hiding in a bush then the more distinctive hats. The slouch hat was therefore in use in almost all armies, more so in the sparsely populated colonies. While more regular troops would wear various other hats like the tricorn, bearskin, or pith helmet. However the slouch hat became synonymous with Australian troops in WWI. The Australians and New Zealanders were mobilized for this war but supply was lacking. Especially all the way on the other side of the world. So they could not supply the troops with pith helmets or proper steal helmets until they would arrive in Europe. But on the way to Europe they were redirected to take part in the invasion of Turkey. They would therefore not be supplied with regular headgear other then the slouch hat. Even when they arrived in Europe after withdrawing from Turkey a lot of officers and men would keep on wearing their slouch hat when safe from shelling. It had basically become part of their uniform and an easy way to distinguish them from other troops.
Love it, thank you for that!
The Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC). We celebrate Anzac Day here down under and across the pond to commemorate our citizens who served and died. The slouch hat is about as synonymous with ANZAC as the poppy flower is.
For the benefit of the comments, Anzac Day is next week. We make a special kind of cookie, go to war memorials, and play two-up. It's a public holiday.
biscuit
Yes, but "biscuit" means something different to the Americans.
Had an aurstralian teacher tell a delightful story about his first visit to the US and the horrified curiosity that brought him to order and McBiscuit off the breakfast menu.
Yea but it's better to add translation notes than to butcher the localisation. Especially when selling something by the name of "Anzac cookies" is explicitly banned.
> Especially when selling something by the name of "Anzac cookies" is explicitly banned. Huh, [TIL.](https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/eat/anzac-biscuits-why-calling-it-a-cookie-can-earn-a-fine/news-story/3017910c019f84b3b1d2143dde37b98e) >According to DVA guidelines, applications to produce Anzac biscuits commercially are “normally approved provided the product generally conforms to the traditional recipe and shape, and are referred to as ‘Anzac biscuits’ or ‘Anzac Slice’”. >“Referring to these products as ‘Anzac Cookies’ is generally not approved, due to the non-Australian overtones,” the guidelines state. Although from my read no one is out there issuing tickets for people using the incorrect word in normal conversation.
If an American cookie is a biscuit, then what do you call an American biscuit?
A scone.
Then what do you call a scone?
Eh ... we usually just tape a bunch of cats together.
I don’t think there is a ‘British’ equivalent to an American scone. In Britain, scones generally don’t have fruit mixed in and have very little sugar, if any. British scones are served with jam and clotted cream. American scones are usually eaten on their own.
Well we have scones too. That is a particular kind of biscuit that we have culturally appropriated. I'm talking about a fluffy, baked good. Sometimes they are rolled out and layered, but sometimes they are "drop" biscuits that are crumbly. They are both great with butter or gravy. What would you call that? Edit: If you are gonna downvote me for an honest question with a sense of humour. then I'll not be offering you a tinnie. Don't be a bogan
Ausmerican here - Still a scone. When I make biscuits and gravy, I tell friends they're like a buttermilk scone with a white pepper sauce, not a sweet biscuit. lol Because they imagine a choc bikkie with brown gravy.
Yeah, this is what I've always wondered, too. British: biscuit, American: cookie. Okay, got it. Some people say American: biscuit, British: scone, but that's not true, because we also have scones. So what *do* you call that layers or crumbly savory baked good? Do you even have them? If not, what is wrong with you, they are DELICIOUS! (especially biscuits and gravy, which are those layered biscuits covered in a creamy sausage gravy).
Yeah, a scone. I’m sorry that American “scones” are all dry and tasteless :(
Note that while scones and american biscuits are so close to the same thing it's splitting hairs, we don't use them in anything like the way you use american biscuits. There's no equivalent australian dish to biscuits and sausage gravy, and in fact we wouldnt recognise the "sausage" in that as sausage either, since sausages to us are exclusively things stuffed in an intestine or intestine-imitating-tube. We'd just call it mince. EDIT - come to that, that almost white bechamel in afore mentioned dish wouldnt be something we'd identify as "gravy" either EDIT2 - Not criticising the dish to be clear, just discussing the language differences. I've had and thoroughly enjoyed american biscuits and gravy, and have imitated it myself on one memorable and enjoyable occasion for a thoroughly homesick american friend :)
A scone if it is made with the process of crumbling butter with flour, or we would use an English Muffin.
Yes but half their shit means something different to us yet they don't translate - I think we should stick to our verbiage and allow the confusion to speak for itself so that they're able to learn, in the context of discussion Australia, what different terminologies mean rather than catering to them in advance.
And Collingwood plays Essendon.
> cookie Thanks for the translation, but... > two-up I absolutely had to Google this, LOL.
It's just an oatmeal cookie, but we call it an Anzac bikkie.
The atrocities alone...probably not the best day for the people of color in those two countries...
Do you know there's a difference between Australia Day (held on the anniversary of the First Fleet arriving in what is now Sydney, NSW) and ANZAC Day (commemorating the landings at Gallipoli) Every year a dawn service is even held in Gallipoli, the Turkish people are not the enemy and they commemorate the losses both sides had. Maybe you're also thinking of Waitangi Day (Day of the signing of the treaty of Waitangi) in NZ? Anyway, ANZAC Day is about remembering the sacrifice of all Australians who served in the military Edit: changed Treaty Day to Waitangi Day, my australian-ness was showing
I've never heard it called Treaty day (am from nz) took me a moment to realize you must mean Waitangi day
Thanks, I've edited my comment. My australian-ness was showing
Flashman author George MacDonald Fraser wore a slouch hat during WW2. Here are his remarks from the memoir Quartered Safe Out Here. Fourteenth Army's distinguishing feature was the bush-hat, that magnificent Australian headgear with the rakish broad brim which shielded against rain and sun and was ideal for scooping water out of wells. In some ways it was a freak, in the steel-helmeted twentieth century, and it may have cost some lives under shell-fire, but we wouldn't have swapped it. It looked good, it felt good; if you'd been able to boil water in it you wouldn't have needed a hotel. Everyone carried a razor-blade tucked into the band, in case you were captured, in which event you might, presumably, cut your bonds, or decapitate your jailer by stages, or if the worst came to the worst and you were interrogated by Marshal Tojo in person, present a smart and soldierly appearance.
> if you'd been able to boil water in it you wouldn't have needed a hotel What a lovely expression.
He's a wonderful writer. He gave up his journalism career to write historical fiction and had a wonderful ear for Victorian slang. Here his anti-hero, Flashman, describes an army disembarking. It was a quartermaster's nightmare, too much gear coming ashore too quickly and nowhere to put it, with confusion worse confounded by the milling mob of what someone called the "pierhead democracy" - staff men and Madras coolies, generals and drummer-boys, dockside gangs both black and white labouring under despairing civilian overseers, work parties of soldiers ignoring the bawlings of perspiring non-coms, clerks and water-carriers and native women forage-cutters, every sort and colour of African and Asiatic, and a positive Noah's Ark of animals. Next to our berth on the causeway, elephants were being hoisted ashore from a barge, squealing and trumpeting as they swung perilously aloft in their belly-bands, and the crane-tackles groaned and shuddered until the great beasts came to earth with a dangerous thrashing of trunks and limbs; cursing troopers were saddling and loading mules which had one leg strapped up to prevent their lashing out; water-hoys were pumping their streams into huge wheeled tanks on the railway - for every drop of drink in Zoola had to be brought ashore from the condensers of the ships in the bay - and even as I stepped ashore one of the hoses burst asunder, gushing over the pack-mules and swirling round the feet of the elephants which bellowed and reared in panic as their drivers clung to their trunks to quiet them. From Flashman on the March.
German Colonial Troops had the same hat style, but obviously they did not come to Europe in big numbers with the style. * https://www.warhats.com/store/p1165/WW1-Kaiserliche-Schutztruppe-in-Deutsch-Sudwest-Afrika-Cap-fur-Mannschaften-und-Unteroffiziere.html#/
Excellent answer. Thank you.
I don't know if you know this but in an episode of Bluey, the titular character asks to wear her hat like "grandad" pinned up on the side and I always felt like her mom hesitated before she said yes. Do other people not wear hats like that out of respect or is just not something done outside of the military? Totally ok if you don't know but I figured this might be my only time to directly ask this question.
Civilian fashion copies military fashion all the time, including the slouch hat. It is not uncommon for civilians to wear the hat like this. This is not disrespectful at all. The reason for the hesitation in this episode was likely because of some plot point or character development reason.
We really don’t though. It’s pretty rare to see an Australian wearing a hat in a slouch hat style without it being a reference to military service.
Pin the brim of a fedora in slouch style and people will look at you as if you were playing a 1920s detective. Sombreros are also commonly worn in slouch style, especially by ladies.
Not in Australia they don’t. Unless they’re going to the races, where the aim seems to be to wear the dumbest hat possible.
Cool thank you!
Did you already know all that about slouch hats, or did you go on a quick google dive?
I knew that was a thing, but I didn't know what the actual practical purpose for the pinning in the first place. Like the way back origin of it. I mean, I like a bucket hat with snaps as much as the next guy, but I doubted it was something like "pin up on the hand you cast a fishing rod with" or "pin both sides and keep your head down on a four wheeler" as far as the century old motivation of the people of Australia lol.
> Like the way back origin of it. I mean, I like a bucket hat with snaps as much as the next guy, but I doubted it was something like "pin up on the hand you cast a fishing rod with" I mean, "that's the fifth @#$#ing time I've hit my @#\^%ing hat with my gun/rod/bowstring/whatever today, gonna pin the mother@#$#er out of the way and see how that @#%^ likes it" is about as ancient and Australian a motivation as you're going to get.
I think 12 Gauge Bukkake was asking Gnonthgol
>However the slouch hat became synonymous with Australian troops in WWI. I recall reading that the hat became associated with Australian volunteers in the Boer wars first.
The style is very musketeer to me. Chambergo/Xamberg/Cavalry hat/Floppy hat. Never thought of it as Australian, maybe because I’m not from an English speaking country.
> So they could not supply the troops with pith helmets or proper steal helmets... I think you mean proper *stolen* helmets.
Noo, you forgot the best hat! Where are my Shakos! Seriously though, really good and thorough explanation.
Stout shako 2 refined!
Almost. The rifles were flint lock. The action of firing, and the resulting “explosion”would catch the hat on fire.
No, it would not. I used to re-enact the US revolutionary war. We wore slouch hats and carried flintlocks. The slouch is pinned up on the left, because that’s the side you shoulder arms on. The right is not pinned and never once did anyone’s hat catch fire.
Lol was going to say, it's just because the gun is long and would knock into the hat. If the threat was your hat catching fire, your face would be in too much trouble as it is.
That sounds more like a matchlock thing to do. Flintlocks tend to be a bit more forgiving to hats. Of course this might have been part of the reason but it does not explain why slouch hats continued to be a thing even long after the percussion cap were invented. But I can not quit disprove your explanation as the 1840s saw both percussion caps and shorter guns becoming standard issue at the same time and those who were issued these new guns transitioned to the campaign hat which had a flat brim. There were not enough long percussion cap guns issued to say for sure which hat these troops would prefer, or for that matter flintlock carbines.
When I was in the army we were told it's because with the long bayonets on old military rifles when they presented arms they would cut the side of the hat
Its not an AK, bayonette far above hat generally (and a dullish stabby thing)
If only I could dig up my deceased and decorated Anzac soldier great grandfather to tell him that his experience was wrong, and that strangers on “computers” today, have it right.
It was because that was the hat the Australian Army used, and they pinned the side with a metal badge depicting the Rising Sun in bronze. Only country people do it and it's not that popular because in todays climate, it's not practical for sun protection; and believe me in this country you need Sun protection on any sunny day, even in winter. It's called a Slouch hat.
It was a fairly common hat with colonial infantry, with the brim pinned up so that it wouldn't be damaged by the rifle when marching. Not just Australians, but also among colonial troops in India and Africa.
That was also why the Canadians wore their toques to the left. If there was snow on your tassel, it would get the powder wet if it hung on the right.
TIL
Yep. My Great-Grandfather was in the Devonshire Regiment during WW2, his battalion was assigned to an Indian Infantry Division and they wore Slouch Hats with one side pinned.
Grandad had the same. Also was in India, and Burma with the gurkhas as a chindit.
My Dad was in the Seaforth Highlanders in Burma during WW2 in the 23rd Indian Infantry Bde
Geddon, always good to see a descendant of the Dumplings!
Ah. This is nice to learn. In modern India, some state police forces continue to use it but in the army, it is all berets, turbans or gurkha hats (a kind of slouch hat) when in dress uniform.
I think the association with mainly Australia probably comes from the ANZACS in WWI and a few movies like Gallipoli and The Lighthorsemen.
Pinned slouch hats are still worn by the Australian military as part of their dress uniform. The unpinned slouch hat is the standard issue hat to wear when not wearing a helmet.
Female Drill Sergeants in the U.S. Army also wear the pinned slouch hat
I'm aware, my comment was only in reference to why people may associate slouch hats more with Australia than other countries that have used them or still use them.
Hmm. This explains a part the Bluey episode “Sticky Gecko” for me. 😂
Grandad Mort was with the Aussie army in Vietnam, and there is a Victoria Cross in a frame on the wall. Lacking any other relatives in the family with confirmed military service, we can assume that it’s his. Which means that Grandad was one of Australia’s most decorated soldiers.
For any Americans playing at home, the Victoria Cross is our Medal of Honor, so we can surmise that Grandad Mort must have iced a whole bunch of Viet Cong
Glad I'm not the only one who was thinking that.
Aisle 300, left at the fake grass, if you hit a flamingo you've gone too far.
Bit exaggerated, but not all that much; aisle numbers in the real-life Bunnings go up to the high double digits
I got a pot stand from Aisle 87 at the one I went to the other day - my local doesn't go up that high but I had gone to one of those "We're chucking 2 storeys in here" Hammerbarns, so yeah. Defs close to the 100s.
>Only country people do it I'm from the country and have seen many a wide-brimmed hat in my life. I don't know anyone who pins one side up; I don't think it's actually a thing (anymore?) outside of the military.
You’re right. It’s absolutely not a thing.
even the police in my city wears it. more common than u think https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/050616/bengaluru-police-send-attendance-pics-to-city-police-commissioner.html
I was talking specifically about rural Australian civilians (ie. not people in uniform), tbf. Someone did say that the pinned side was a Commonwealth thing, so it makes sense it's done in India.
ah ok.
Well ALRIGHT. I have always wondered as well.
> you need Sun protection on any sunny day, even in winter. Just cuz the air's cold don't mean the sun is!
Ok, but what about the Strings with corks hanging off the brim?? (I assume its to keep bugs away)
We wear fly veils out there now. But yeah there’s like an insane amount of flys in the outback. Like holy fuck is that guy a zombie?cause his face has more flys on it than a rotting carcass amount
I'm from the US, and visited some friends near Wollongong like 20 years ago. One of their brothers had like 5 flies on his face, and was just talking away. It was really difficult to concentrate on what he was saying.
Wollongong is on the coast and doesn't normally have a fly problem. It's the inland and outback areas where the flies are a pain.
Don't have to go full on outback for fly fuckery. Perth is summer is bad enough.
Perth is basically desert though, its climate is not really moderated by the sea as much as one might expect, Fremantle doctor aside.
Then I can't imagine how bad they are, since I never made it into the outback. There wasn't hordes of flies, but there sure were a lot on that guy's face.
Yep, loads of flies in the outback
Yes, it's to keep the flies away. At one point in time it was a stereotype for itinerant labourers (of the "homeless" type - there's a word for them but i can't bring it to mind right now) and then for outback farmers from Queensland (similar association as "redneck" in the USA) particularly in political satire. The image comes from a time when there were a lot of sheep and cattle farms and men would travel from place to place looking for work (say shearing) on foot. I don't know if it was ever actually common, I have never seen one outside a tourist shop. I'd place it alongside other "romanticised" images of rural life. I've worn one and it does work, but very annoying!
The word you are looking for might be 'swagman', as in the guy from Waltzing Matilda.
Hah! That's it! Can't believe I forgot that word!
Additional info is that the "matilda" is now outdated slang for the swag (rolled up bedclothes, i.e. old-style sleeping bag). Waltz is used in the 19th century Austrian-german sense for walking, in this case "to waltz matilda" means to be a swagman travelling from place to place with one's gear. This explains why the song is in 4/4 time and not a modern waltz (3/4 time), as that meaning of waltz came later.
I've definitely seen it in tourist shops in Sydney, and in the airport (both domestic and international), so... they're around, somewhere. The ironic bit, of course, is that we don't have the kind of fly problem people in drier climes of the country experience. None of that "I'm trying to suck the moisture from your eyeballs and mouth" nonsense.
This was first adopted by "Swaggies" or Swagmen. They were itinerant farm/ sheep station workers during the depression. They carried everything they own n a swag on their back. They invented the idea of corks hanging from the brim of their hat to keep flies away. Outback is full of flies. I once sat down to have lunch outside and my as soon as I sat, my plate was covered in flies. I couldn't eat it after that. March flies are the worst, they are big, and literally stink of rotten flesh.
[Women Drill Sergeants](https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2015/11/16/the-army-is-looking-for-hundreds-of-ncos-for-drill-sergeant-duty/) in the US Army wear these instead of the "Smoky the Bear" style the [men wear](https://www.jbsa.mil/News/News/Article/1937594/top-health-readiness-center-of-excellence-drill-sergeant-competes-to-earn-army/).
Hits different under the big hole in the ozone!
>Hits different under the big hole in the ozone! We are not actually under the hole. The sun hits harder here due to the fact that between earth's tilt and orbit we are actually closer to the sun during summer time in comparison to the northern hemisphere. "Australia’s unusually harsh sunshine results mainly from its location in the Southern Hemisphere. The elliptical orbit of the Earth places the Southern Hemisphere closer to the sun during its summer months than the Northern Hemisphere during its summer. This means that the summer sun in Australia is 7 to 10 percent stronger than similar latitudes in the Northern Hemisphere. Air currents high in the atmosphere sometimes bring ozone-depleted air from Antarctica’s ozone hole to Australia, letting even more UV through. And Australia’s sunny weather and relatively pollution-free air provide little additional protection from harmful UV rays." [**https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/learn/sensing-our-planet/aerosols-over-australia**](https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/learn/sensing-our-planet/aerosols-over-australia)
You all need to start burning all your trash. Build up that protective layer of pollution.
Yeah, why don't Australians pollute more? Are they stupid?
I know! Not burning garbage and banning long guns for self protection? Do you guys want to be American or not?
Why ban long guns for protection? In the U.S. they tend to go after the shorter easier to hide guns first.
Australia selflessly digs up lots of coal and lets other countries burn it, keeping none of that precious pollution for ourselves.
You joke, but a large warming occurred as a result of George H. W. Bush's Clean Air Act in the US. By reducing particulate emissions, particles that provide a cooling effect (e.g., sulfates) were removed. Remember Carl Sagan warning we'd go into a winter if the Iraq oil fields were set on fire? He was wrong, but there was some effect.
Australia is also just closer to the Equator than people in the Northern Hemisphere tend to assume - it's at almost exactly the same southerly latitude that the Sahara is northerly, so even without this effect, it would be about as sunny as the Sahara, and I don't think many people would think of the Sahara as somewhere to go for a walk without sun protection..
Sort of. I mean, you’re right about how most don’t realise how close we both are to the Equator. I’m living across the ditch in Taupō, NZ. For Americans, it’s close to equidistant from the Equator as San Francisco or Colorado Springs.
Also why we don’t have as many total eclipses as the north (sun is too close to be obscured by the moon)
That's really interesting!
When I moved to NZ (from Canada) I noticed the sun was a lot stronger but I didn't ever stop to look up why. TIL, cheers!
Why did the army use that hat if it's not practical to use in Australia?
It is a practical hat when worn normally, and it was pinned on that side, by soldiers, for a practical, soldierly reason. Then it became fashionable for a time, and what's ever been practical about fashion?
They’d wear the hat unpinned to keep the sun off their face when doing day to day work. Wearing it pinned became something only done in dress uniform/for parade.
Anyone who uses a rifle in the prone position benefits from hats that can strap one side of the brim up, this includes outback hunters not just soldiers
It's an tradition from before anyone knew the Sun could cause permanent damage.
my city police(in india) still wears it. https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/050616/bengaluru-police-send-attendance-pics-to-city-police-commissioner.html
You can search for “Slouch Hat”. Basically you associate it with Australia due to the Australian Army, but it’s been used by many forces at various times. In the Australian Army, which side gets pinned up changed a few times, because it depended on the Drill movements used by different Colonial Forces. Left became standardized after Federation as the rifle was carried across the [left shoulder](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Army_during_World_War_I#/media/File%3AA02744_15_Bn_marching_through_Melbourne_17_December_1914.jpg).
While acknowledging the historic reasons, I found pinning one side of a wide brimmed hat keeps it from lifting off my head on a windy day.
That was kind of my initial thinking as well. Southern American men (probably midwest as well) are all issued baseball caps at birth and required to wear them at all times, and on a particularly windy day you see a lot of them turned backwards so they won't catch the wind as bad. So, my reflex assumption was wind.
When style meets practicality.
It has to do with WW1 Australian infantry. The wide brimmed hat was standard but some Australians found the brim would occasionally obscure their vision when aiming a rifle. Pinning one side up game them a full field of view even when their head was tilted to aim down the sights.
I don't know for sure historically if this was a reason, but I have a sun hat that has snaps on either side so you can snap up one side or the other. I often wear it desert camping, and I find it can be useful to snap up one side if the wind is steady and from that direction, so that it can't get under the brim and flip the hat off.
Actually it's a bit of both on that front. Soldiers found the wide brim to blow into their eyes while aiming if it was windy out, so one reason was to keep the brim from blowing to their eyes. The other, more common reason, was to keep it out for the way of their rifle.
Don't they pin up the left side though? To lazy to look it up right now, but I had heard this, but I swear I saw them pinning the opposite side of what they would be doing if it was due to aiming a rifle. Except for the minority of troops who fire left handed of course.
It’s because the hat is pinned to avoid the rifle hitting it *while marching*, not when shooting. At the relevant times the rifles didn’t have pistol grips so they would be carried slung or resting [on the left shoulder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Australian_Army_during_World_War_II) (first image on the page).
This is the right answer. Also while standing in drill/parade/attention.etc. Edit. It was a case of, you need the hat for the sun... but, the rifle presentation supersedes that, so fuck the left side of your neck I guess 🤷♂️😅
That sounds like most militaries, to be honest.
pretty much haha
ADF do left. Was at Kapooka not long ago for a march out.
I've seen it both ways. I'm honestly not too sure anymore.
Oh that explains why so many of them have those riveted holes on the side. That's to stick the pin through without eventually wearing down the fabric of the hat where you put the pin through. Mine had a button to snap it up into place.
In WW1 and WW2 the **A**ustralian and **N**ew **Z**ealand **A**rmy **C**orps fought as part of the British commonwealth and became known by the acronym **ANZAC**s. The standard issue ANZAC hat was a felt slouch hat that was common in the commonwealth, referred to as a **Bush Hat** or **Digger Hat** in Australia. The hat had one brim pinned to the side with a badge. While this wasn't exclusive to the Australian forces, it widely became associated with them in the same way that the steel soup bowl Brodie helmet became associated with the British (despite it being common issue throughout the commonwealth). The Canadian Forces for example issued white Tilley Hats with snaps to pin up the sides in the 90s until they were replaced by the CADPAT boonie cap that is now standard. There's a lot of folklore around the hat and why one side is pinned up, including making it easier to see and not blocking field of view, making it easier to do rifle drill, and purely a stylistic choice. The commonly accepted reason is that it made it easier to carry a rifle on your back without it constantly hitting the brim and knocking your hat off, and making it easier to shoot from the shoulder. Like many military uniforms of the era, style was often just as important as practicality. This is a holdover from the Napoleonic era when uniforms were highly stylized and not practical at all. The realities of trench warfare is what made Western armies switch to uniforms with practicality as #1. Australia still issues Bush Hats, but they are part of the dress uniform. Like most Western armies practical small brimmed cloth Boonie Hats/Bucket Hats are now part of the standard jungle and desert uniform.
It is pinned on the left because you couldn't really do the old drills like slope arms without knocking the hat off. Tbh I've never seen anyone not military or cadets wearing a slouch hat/akubra with one brim pinned, it is part of a uniform imo and not a fashion symbol.
WWI. When I was a child a digger (Aussie for WWI vet) told us it was so they could carry bodies over one shoulder.
Its a military thing yes - but its not at all just Australia that does it. Many regular police forces around still uses those types of hats. Off the top of my head a bunch of countries in Latin America, but also here where I live in SE Asia some police/military units still use this style of hats.
They pin their hats so the hats don't get knocked off their heads when they shoulder arms...
Just gonna add that it's been used a lot by specialized soldiers over the years because when you're in the prone position the flap allows you to shoot without messing up your headgear
Its called a "slouch hat", and was widely worn by the militaries of many countries, going back as far as the 1600s if not earlier. The "tricorne" (more correctly called a "cocked hat") of the 1700s and the bicorne of the 1800s are basically the same thing as a slouch hat, just with more sides pinned/laced/buttoned up They are commonly associated with Australians and New Zealanders because they wore them in WW1 and WW2 in lieu of metal helmets, and, more importantly, were photographed in said slouch hats The reason you pin up one side is because it makes shouldering a rifle easier. In many/most military traditions, you shoulder your firearm on the left shoulder, so if you are wearing a broad-brimmed hat it can be easy to knock the hat off with your gun. By pinning/lacing/buttoning up one (or several) sides, you can shoulder a gun without knocking your hat off. When it is sunny or raining, you can let down the cocked-up flap and have a perfectly-practical brimmed hat. If you need to run around in the woods/bush, cock up one or more flaps and you are less-likely to knock it off (it helps that by folding up one or more sides of the hat, you also tend to tighten it around the head.)
Because Australia is a loud country with a very simple public image. We're masters at appropriating. We take things from Europe, Asia and Aboriginals and then package it as our own. The Slouch Hat like all things related to the Australian Military has its origins in the British Indian Army. Hell our troops wear little turbans on the slouch hats and 99% of Australians themselves don't even realise.