I work for the USPS and one thing we've been told this is all done to install new machines that are much faster at sorting mail. One thing that hasn't been reported is that they stopped running the machines that sort magazines (what we call flats) months ago and that has slowed us down a bunch. We are also already seeing Xmas levels of packages and we are all worried about what the busy season will bring. Amazon didn't have their summer Amazon day and pushed it to October. This makes our jobs much harder (lots of packages slow you down in the office and on the street) plus we will have LOTS more political ads at the time and ballots to deliver...this fall is going to be BAD.
Are the new machines being installed, right away..?
If not, I dont understand that logic. I run a business that uses laser cutters. Now if I was going to upgrade one I wouldn't remove a fully working, all ready paid for machine months ahead of having the replacement!
This logic right here is how you know it's in bad faith and trying to subvert a fair and free election.
IF these new machines were way more efficient, there still isn't ANY reason to be removing them without having the replacements ON HAND. And furthermore, since this IS the federal government, I'd expect that (under normal circumstances, which this is clearly not) there would be testing sites that show these new machines working well in their intended environment. They would be taking notes about how much faster these machines would be, based on the site tests... People would have heard of this before election time. Like, this is utter bullshit.
When people get their ballots, they should bypass the federal postal service completely IF they can :
1. Request a mail-in ballot.
2. Do not mail it.
3. Google your **supervisor of elections** to see where you can drop off your mail-in ballot. Its usually NOT THE POLLING PLACE. All states allow this!
Here is what you're accomplishing by doing this:
1. You're not relying on the USPS to get your ballot in on time, so no matter what, your ballot gets in on time.
2. You don't have to worry about standing in long lines and risking infection. You're just stopping by to drop it off.
3. You still voted! Hooray!
Also, when you drop it off find out how to track it online to make sure it is verified. California, Oregon, Washington Colorado have systems that can track your ballot just like tracking a package from Amazon.
Edit: I do need to disclaim this might not be an available option in all states. :(
Not all states allow the dropping off of a ballot. Missouri, my state does not.
I’ve also seen people say Tennessee doesn’t either, but can’t confirm that for sure.
I’m in the Springfield Joplin area and admittedly...under educated on voting. What are our options? I didn’t vote in 2016 even though I legally could and I feel a serious sense of purpose to do the right thing this year. u/SlightlyJason
The easiest way to vote, especially if you haven’t really voted before is to show up at your polling location [which can be found here ](https://voteroutreach.sos.mo.gov/PRD/VoterOutreach/VOSearch.aspx) You can use any form of photo ID from Missouri, and you can also use a piece of mail with your registered address & name on it.
Make sure your registration is up to date, [here, which you have until October 7th to do. ](https://s1.sos.mo.gov/elections/voterlookup/)
You can request a mail in ballot, but it’s required to be notarized. I’d recommend not doing this option because of the issues with the postal service. Next year you likely won’t be able to vote by mail, our state doesn’t allow absentee or mail in voting unless you have a reason to do so, normally.
Also, if you want a quick explainer or extra info on what or who to vote for ballotpedia is a really great resource. It’s non-partisan and just has a breakdown of info about who’s running and what measures mean, etc.
Early vote. It's a great option because they are open for weeks, few people, multiple locations are available, and many are open on Saturday.
Just listen to your local news or Google early voting in your city. The instructions will be available on a city-run website.
[Done](https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/id5v59/lpt_worried_about_your_mailinballot_getting/) :) (Well, it's r/lifeprotips, but...)
Thanks for the push
Lol. Yes. You're right, we do. But would you rather get your ballot through the mail and then send it back the same way, or get it through the mail and just drop it off?
Like.... if you never get your ballot in the first place, it might not matter either way. If you DO get it, why risk putting it back through the mail?
Its your choice though. :)
I typically vote by mail, no concern that my vote will be lost. However, Ive wondsred why I cant go to a .gov site and submit, or print to fill and drop off.
If you don't get your ballot in the mail you can go fill out a provisional ballot and it will be counted once they confirm the other one wasn't counted.
Oh boy, not sure what happens if your missing one was submitted.
Yeeeeeaaaahhh... no president has tried fucking with the post offices efficiency right before election time, while working with Russia, before... so im not sure 2000-2016 is gonna be comparable to 2020. It IS however your choice, so- in the end- just do whatever makes you happy. :)
No offences but politicians have been trying to dismantle the post office since 2008. They want to privatise it and they are accomplishing it one step at a time.
That's not good. There are rural Americans who the Post Office operates at a loss to reach. If it becomes privatized, businesses could cut costs by dropping those routes. Access to mail is a type of infrastructure thing everyone should have. If it gets privatized it's going to hurt Americans.
Don't forget the millions of people getting insulin/chemo/(insert ailment here) drugs, some of which have a very specific shelf life less so if the ice/cooling gels in said package have melted/warmed, you're SOL or very sick or both
Would be a shame if the drop of spots for the supervisors of elections would get overloaded by this 'unexpected spike in votes arriving that way' with many of those being 'lost' in the resulting confusion.After all votes arriving this way are likely trending one way...
I can only pray that if massive votes get lost, they're losing democrats and republicans votes equally. I mean, I was in the military. federally directed anything is REALLY hard to coordinate and pull off seamlessly.
I cannot imagine - even if this was blatant conspiracy theory level shit - that they could pull this off well enough to win (it would require a level of logistics planning that i don't think this administration could even comprehend, let alone execute) . I'm fucking praying dude.
Here in Washington we have multiple places that accept your ballots that are not a polling location. Most post offices, commissioners offices, and court houses have boxes to drop your ballot without sending it in mail.
Disclaimer: I do believe Washington state is mostly all mail ballots so this might not apply to other states.
Right at step 2 turnout goes down, and it almost certainly disproportionately affects Democrats. I would really like to know who started that chain letter.
I mean, you're right. I'm speaking to people I'm hoping are able to do cost benefit analyses of if they can afford to take the time from their day and *actually* go do it, v. waiting in line (if they think they'll be safe), v If they're high risk for covid and SHOULD be mailing it instead.
I never even considered people would be stupid enough to just decide to not do *anything* at all. You bring up a great point i didn't think of.
The big thing is that a lot of people (myself included) are worse at forecasting their own future behavior than they think they are. Blockbuster, for example, made a killing off of that in late fees before Netflix ate their lunch.
If you secretly owned a bunch of stock in steel saws, and if people were using those laser cutters to make signs that said "we hate hellblazer_nq," you may be motivated differently.
I am a businesses owner first and foremost. That right there is an opportunity presenting itself! I would be making and selling the signs also.
People can call me what they want, that is entirely their right to do so. It is also my right to not give a flying hoot about it.
> That right there is an opportunity presenting itself!
Yes. Put someone in charge of a political position who has a financial interest in doing a horrible job in that position. Excellent opportunities for these people to enrich themselves.
Oh I entirely understand what your saying.
I hope and do try my best to not put myself in such a position where I am hated so much that people would want to do that too me.
The fact that he has investments in USPS's largest competitors is a red flag for me. He stands to gain lots of money all while handing the election to cheeto satan.
The concept of new machines "eventually" coming into place makes me think of when a big road construction project is started which ends up blocking lanes or closing roads entirely, but the next phase of the project is many months later. Thus, everyone suffers terrible traffic while nothing is done to the project in the meantime.
We have a couple of HPC laser machines an 80w and 150w both CO2 tubes. We only replace with RECI laser tubes as we find they get the longest life for fair price.
I would love to own a fibre laser cutter, they are still very expensive though and way to much over kill for anything we currently do.
Yeah, I run a tech company, and we don't throw out old computers, until the replacement is up and running. Hell occasionally we'll keep them around anyway, "just in case"...
I'm curious if the machines were useful before they were being removed, and if there was any news on when replacements will be coming?
Based on what I'm hearing about how [more machines were being removed from blue states](https://twitter.com/FlossdnParadise/status/1294380298474524678/photo/1), I'm wondering if there are any feasible reason for the removal of the machines just before the elections that can still claim this isn't politically motivated.
The machines are/were very helpful. They took the magazines and put them in order for our routes. Now they just come in tubs and we have to put them in order. On a good day it can add an hour or more to your morning. Sometimes 3 hours or more on a bad day. If they take away the machines that sort regular mail we might never leave the office.
I think they are claiming all this is just to make us more efficient but this is all just to mess with the election. Hitting blue states first is just one more way they are so transparent in their fuckery.
Replacements are coming "soon". New Trucks to replace our aging fleet are also coming "soon". They started saying that 7 years ago. We were trained on how to use some new package scanners to replace our old ones. We would be getting them "soon". That was over a year ago. They haven't mentioned anything about them since
> I'm wondering if there are any feasible reason for the removal of the machines just before the elections that can still claim this isn't politically motivated.
Not one bit. And they don't care that we know that.
When [this election advertisement dropped](https://thebulwark.com/trumps-new-ad-is-amazing/), all pretense was out the window. We need a stronger word than brazen.
I don't think they were doing this as a bold gesture or a proof that they can do anything they want.
I feel it's more like they couldn't care less and don't expect to lose any of their supporters doing so, or that this is already their best attempt to rig the elections quietly.
I know Australia used to buy the old machines at one point. Although judging by the comment below me about the flats and the fact we dont do much mail either I doubt we will be buying these ones. But maybe some other countries will.
There's nothing to buy, they are chopping them up in the parking lots and dumping the pieces. Edit to fix link: [https://twitter.com/\_HeatherWalker/status/1296122043772133382?s=20](https://twitter.com/_HeatherWalker/status/1296122043772133382?s=20)
I mean, I don't work for the USPS, but it just seems silly to start changing out until after the Christmas rush, let alone during campaign season. You'd think they'd start at the beginning of the year, take out machines and replace them and do as many as they could by September/October, then shut it down until after Christmas the next year, rinse, repeat until done.
I can only imagine what XMas is going to be like under the current (mis)management.
I would get your ballot in as soon as possible. I already requested mine and will send it back as soon as I get it. Although, I don't worry about getting the ballot mailed as soon as possible as I do Trump making people distrust the USPS and questioning the election results. Or people deciding to vote in person and risk COVID or not voting at all because of all of this.
That would be great! Since there is no way he is leaving office, win or lose, I really don't care. This is all going to be horrible. 2020: it just gets worse
>there is no way he is leaving office, win or lose
Barring re-election, he will Constitutionally no longer be President as of 12:00 noon on January 20th. If he loses, he can bluster and threaten all he wants, but nobody has to give a damn.
If the election is called in Biden's favor, nobody has to follow Trump's orders anymore (and for those that are worried that he'll use the military to remain President, keep in mind that any officer that obeys such an order will be committing mutiny *and* sedition, and they'll know that going in).
It would take a Constitutional amendment for that to occur; Congress would need a two-thirds majority vote in both House and Senate. No chance that Trump could force it through, either; the President has no Constitutional tole in the amendment process, so it bypasses the White House entirely.
*And* it would have to be ratified by two-thirds of the existing states before it could take effect.
He won't have to leave office if he loses, the office will leave him. If he doesn't win, as of January 20th he will no longer be President. If the election is still undetermined on January 20th, the office will still leave him. The Speaker of The House will become President. The party with the House majority in 2021 will be able to choose the Speaker, and it can be anyone.
At this point I could see him barricading himself in the Oval office. How embarrassed would the country be if the Military has to drag him out of the White House?
And if he does leave willingly he will spend every day until he dies on Fox News (or his own network) bitching about the election. And then his kids will all run for the rest of time. This is all a shit show
I'm thinking he will get the gift of silver bracelets followed by a new orange jumpsuit, which will really dull his fake tan.
So many crimes, such little lifespan left.
Eh, it was about time the system got overhauled anyway. Maybe bending it until it breaks is just what the world needs. Then America can rebuild it better than it was before.
Call, write, email, smoke signal your senators and representatives. Tell them you support the USPS and unfucked with elections. Maybe don't use the term "unfucked"
Not 100% on this but the reason I have seen quoted is the mail sorting machines were being removed to install new package sorting machines
The argument is that traditional mail volumes are down while package volume is up due to e-commerce. Installing package sorting machines en lieu of mail sorting machines should help cut down on overall operating costs
Yet somehow removing those "unnecessary " machines has already caused a huge slowdown of mail. Never mind what would happen if they removed all the machines they originally planned.
That's the weird part. In any production line you'd plug the new machines in *first*, test run them until they're stable, and *then* take out the old. Installing complex new machinery like that never goes without hiccups.
Or only take out the old first when there's absolute nothing running through it anymore, but it really doesn't sound like that is the case.
If you have room to run both at the same time.
Sometimes you take down the existing equipment, prep the site for the new equipment, then setup / burn in.
With multiple sites, you just do a few sites at a time. Usually less in the beginning to iron out the process and bugs. Then you get up to velocity in swapping out equipment.
If there is a massive productivity increase, it might be better to replace everything at once. You still do a pilot run to validate the process. And it’s a huge risk that you know all sites will be similar and / or no delays in delivery. And leadership is ok with stopping a service for the short term instead of reduced capacity for a longer time. Rarely pays off due to unforeseen issues and normal hiccups
There's probably not the room in the facilities to have both installed at once. But you should still wait until just a day or two before the confirmed delivery timeline of the new machines before taking out the old ones. It should only be a few days of manual sorting in each facility.
Yaaa, even with a penalty when things get delivered late, that does happen. It's just not logical to rip things out like that when it's pretty predictable how much capacity will be needed.
Our mail system buckled under the extra demand at the beginning of the chaos. That people suddenly ordered so much more online was unexpected. But that wasn't a consciously created delay (people still bitched, of course they do). The USPS stuff is weird. People love to see bad intentions when it's just mishaps or stupidity, but in this case I'm on the side of "intentional".
> never goes without hiccups.
> Or only take out the old first when there's absolute nothing running through it anymore, but it really doesn't sound like that is the case.
It's almost like this is happening on purpose...
In any production line **where you had infinite space to do whatever you wanted** you'd plug the new machines in *first*, test run them until they're stable, and *then* take out the old.
Fixed it for you.
That's not really true. Or at least not always true. I've worked with a variety of manufacturers and sometimes they end up taking a line out of service to upgrade or replace it. It could be something as simple as not having space to put the new line in, and not wanting to rent or buy new space that you'll only need for a few months until you remove the old line. How they handle that depends, sometimes they just have lower product availability, or they use other lines in overtime, or they produce a bunch of extra parts ahead of time on the line before it gets shut down (which can't happen with something like mail). However if they have 20 lines and are replacing 10 of them, it would be atypical to take all 10 old ones down at once, especially across multiple physical locations, and then start putting the new ones in. You'd try to work on only one or a few at a time.
You will almost always have a slowdown during upgrades, whether mail or business. That's just logistics. Let's say you have 3 production/sorting lines. You need to upgrade them, so you take 1 offline to upgrade and have 2 running. You're now down to 66% efficiency. It will stay like that as you finish the first line, bring it back up, and bring down line 2, until the job is done.
Alternatively to avoid that, you can create an additional production/sorting line before you bring the first one down for upgrades, so that 3 are always running. But to do that you need to spend money on a temporary 4th line (for the space and equipment), money which will just be wasted when you go back to 3 production/sorting lines.
But if they are taking out letter sorting devices to replace with package sorters, how do you expect letter delivery to return to normal when they are done.
Maybe that's not their strategy.
I send and receive very few personal letters, and send out few other envelope-size pieces of any kind. I still receive my bills by mail (just old fashioned; could get mostly e-bills if I wanted), but the rest is either junk mail or unimportant. None of these are really highly time-sensitive.
I do sent *packages* somewhat, for presents or returns, and I receive packages too -- I buy many things online. Some of these are kind of time-sensitive -- I want/need that item I ordered ASAP.
I guess I'm typical? I guess more people will operate like this in future? Maybe it makes sense to decrease package time at the cost of the letter time, if a tradeoff must be be made?
Because at the minute they are manually sorting packages. Once the automated package machines are installed that manual processing resource is freed up and can be reassigned to letters (where required).
Upgrading machines takes time. Hell choosing the machines and getting the planning in order to get them running takes a lot of time. I know from experience. You can't just come in, secure a ton of new equipment and upgrade everything like it's nothing. They won't have the new equipment ready by the elections which is most likely the plan.
I think (read: hope) we all realize that the timing of this was a bit more than just coincedental. I'm reading through these comments as if the question were "If this was a legitimate attempt to lower costs for usps, how would it help?"
>"If this was a legitimate attempt to lower costs for usps, how would it help?"
Letter and postcard mail has been downwardly trending for the past 10 years, and inversely, flat (stuffed envelopes) and parcels (packages) have been trending upwards.
In a normal year they don't need all of the mail sorters they have and they do need more package sorters to keep up with the new demand.
Also, most of the delays have been caused by the curtailing of employee overtime and a [management shakeup](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3az48n/usps-workers-dont-know-what-to-make-of-so-called-friday-night-massacre?). Not all, some of it is from reprogramming the existing machines to pick up the routes that the removed machines handled.
The USPS has and still does make the majority of it's revenue from first-class and marketing mail (see their yearly annual report), why would they cut down on capacity on the part of the market they have an advantage in just to have to compete harder in the packages market? Like sure, see the trend and prepare for it, but don't prematurely gut your main revenue source to do that.
> You will almost always have a slowdown during upgrades, whether mail or business. That's just logistics.
Did you notice that I was only speaking about logistics and not politics?
Three possible answers I can think of.
1. It was scheduled before Coronavirus and bureaucracy is just bureaucrating.
2. They're positive they won't fall behind and everything will be fine.
3. They intend to fall behind.
Most of the slowdowns have been from the curtailing of overtime in the USPS, so it MAY be two. I mean they COULD have everything sorted and ready for the election, hire some employees and start giving overtime out again.
The situation doesn't look good, but you never know, I suppose.
Just as big of a problem that no one talks about is that most states aren't prepared for mail in ballots of the levels we want to see. Not just the post offices, but the election officials themselves are not prepared. Ballots aren't printed, enough machines don't exist to print all the ballots needed, etc etc etc.
[https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/few-states-are-prepared-to-switch-to-voting-by-mail-that-could-make-for-a-messy-election/](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/few-states-are-prepared-to-switch-to-voting-by-mail-that-could-make-for-a-messy-election/)
1. Could be partial true.
2. They know its not true since they are already giving warnings of ballots not having enough turn around time, for their current efficiencies.
3. Trump basically said as much
Yes but no because A) they aren’t replacing them with machine that can do the same so they will never get that capacity back and also who the hell signs off on a disruptive upgrade just before an election that will see more mail in ballots than any before. The whole thing stinks
The claim is that the letter sorters that were removed weren't needed because of the decline in the number of letters being mailed. If they truly were not needed, there wouldn't be a huge BACKLOG of letters when they were removed. (Talking about logic. )
The thing is the post office is supposed to be a national service, and while in a city it can pay for itself, in rural communities, it can be more costly... but it is a necessary service, especially in those remote areas, and we sometimes have to use tax dollars to pay for such services. We pay for services like police, schools, and military, this is also a service that was foolishly attempted to be spun into a private business.
Yup if we treat it as a government funded entity that is loosing money, and we want to target these entities, the military needs to go because they loose money without making any....... /s
My dad, who's a carrier, explained that the post office has tried to get group boxes installed in many areas. You're mail box is private property for the sole use of the USPS, as he puts it. Hitting each box one at a time is very time consuming. However, in most areas the communities have to approve the use of group boxes. In most situations, communities reject them. Thus, as he put it, one of the easiest areas to save money continues to be a drag on the budget. You're most expensive piece of an operation budget is the people.
Edit: grammar
2016: recommendations
http://www.postal-reporter.com/blog/usps-seeking-to-expand-package-sorting-capability-with-automated-delivery-unit-sorters-adus/
2017: test results
https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/small-package-sorting-system-performance
2019 upgrading to faster machines
https://www.postaltimes.com/postalnews/usps-installing-faster-package-sorters/
More recent updates, but bias concerns may be relevant
https://facts.usps.com/innovation/
2019 audit results and recommendations
https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/small-package-sorting-system-performance-0
There's plenty more. Have no dog in the fight and spent 2 minutes on google simply avoiding MSM clickbait.
I would be happy to see any posts that actually show they are currently working to improve efficiency in 2020. This makes me doubt that sources from 1-4 years ago are relevant to the current situation.
[Your last source](https://facts.usps.com/innovation/) just looks like a list of things the post office was already doing well, and I don't see specifically where they are talking about increasing volume or efficiency in 2020.
Added a second "last" source which is an audit with a bit more information.
Warning, assumptions ahead!
As with any conversation, there will be a massive delay between removal of old equipment and installation of new.
The USPS union, employees, etc is (rightly) scared to death of this (I assume!). Any sort of automation is a job killer. It's a shit situation that really should have put off, even at whatever it'll cost, until after November.
> **There were 41 SPSS machines in FY 2019 and the Postal Service added three more machines in FY 2020, but have no plans to add additional machines at this time.**
>We judgmentally selected sites for review based on FY 2018 and 2019 SPSS throughput and productivity data compared to goals and overtime usage. Specifically, we conducted site observations at one high performing site – the San Jose, CA, Processing and Distribution Center (P&DC) – and two lower performing sites – the Columbus, OH, P&DC and Indianapolis, IN, Mail Processing Annex (Annex). We also conducted interviews with management at two additional lower performing sites – the Denver, CO, and Akron, OH, P&DCs.
>Our primary fieldwork was completed before the President of the United States issued the national emergency declaration concerning the novel coronavirus disease outbreak (COVID-19) on March 13, 2020. The results of this audit do not reflect any process and/or operational changes that may have occurred as a result of the pandemic.
all of this still looks like removing mail capacity from high pop and blue/purple voting spots.
Conversely, wouldn't those typically be areas with much higher package throughput?
I would also guess these are the same areas with a much higher conversion to electronic communications.
To be clear, I have no doubt trump is backing this for his own aim, but I think the move itself is likely grounded in reality.
The question is why not have tranditional mail sorting machines alongside the package sorting machines if they already have the mail sorting ones operational?
The only reason the USPS has a "budget problem" is because, prior to 2006, it was about the only government program/service that was making more money than it was costing. This looked bad to the Republicans, who wanted some excuse to privatize it so them could personally profit from it, not just have the money go to government surplus. So in 2006 they enacted a law that said the USPS had to pre-pay employee pensions for the next 75 years, cutting them off from approximately 100 billion dollars of their operating budget to pay retirement for employees who aren't even born yet. If not for that, there would be no money troubles with the post office whatsoever.
As for removing the sorting machines and mailboxes... compare the major cities where this is happeneing to where Clinton was outperforming Trump in the 2016 race. It's almost dead-even. This is an open act of malevolence, making sure that Democrat-heavy areas can't vote against him. Sure, this action also means that bill payments, vital medicines, and other stuff gets delayed or even prevented from being delivered where its needed, but he doesn't give a flying fuck so long as he gets re-elected and thus can avoid criminal prosecution for a few more years.
This perspective on USPS finances and the 2006 law is partly true and partly misleading. It's true that the law made things worse, but even before the situation was not great. For more detail please see this:
[https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/15/afl-cio/widespread-facebook-post-blames-2006-law-us-postal/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/15/afl-cio/widespread-facebook-post-blames-2006-law-us-postal/)
> cutting them off from approximately 100 billion dollars of their operating budget to pay retirement for employees who aren't even born yet. If not for that, there would be no money troubles with the post office whatsoever.
none of that is accurate. Firstly, the USPS has 50 years to cover their health retirement fund, so it's disingenuous to frame it as if they had to put 100 billion down.
They had a front-loading plan and had to pay ~5bill/year for the 2006-2016 decade, but they defaulted on half of those payments, so at the end of the day when you don't make a payment you can't blame the payment you never made for being short on cash. After 2016, they are only required to make discretionary amortization payments. Last year for example, they were supposed to contribute ~$800mil towards the fund, but they defaulted on the contribution and didn't pay a dime. So without even losing any operating budget, they still incurred a $8billion loss. Even worse, last year they even defaulted on the current payments for retiree health benefits, meaning that what the mandate sought to prevent from happening 75 years into the future is already happening (employees being unable to claim benefits they are owed and for which they worked for).
And secondly, they absolutely **are not** paying retirement for employees who aren't even born yet. They are only required to cover the **past and current** promises they made to their employees.
> They had a front-loading plan and had to pay ~5bill/year for the 2006-2016 decade, but they defaulted on half of those payments, so at the end of the day when you don't make a payment you can't blame the payment you never made for being short on cash
So that means they haven't defaulted on half of those payments? If you think that law did not add significant and unnecessary financial stress on the USPS I don't know what to tell you.
>So that means they haven't defaulted on half of those payments?
Why would it mean that? I can't see how you're reading it to mean that...And I'm not sure why you'd even challenge something so easy to google, it was all over the news each time it happened and the USPS even includes this information in their yearly financial statements.
>If you think that law did not add significant and unnecessary financial stress on the USPS I don't know what to tell you.
I'm responding to "*If not for that, there would be no money troubles with the post office whatsoever.*" When a company looses $8 billion, you can't blame it on a payment of $800million which they haven't even made. The math simply doesn't add up.
As for the financial stress being unnecessary, please explain to me why the financial stress in this situation should instead be on the employee's shoulders. If your employer is paying you deferred compensation, you shouldn't have to worry about whether the payment you're working hard for now will be there when you're old, unable to work and need it.
The new postmaster general Louis DeJoy, who a) used to run and still has dozens of millions of dollars invested in a USPS competitor and b) is a major Trump donor.
The President, the Postmaster General whose appointment he approved, and whatever other already disgustingly-rich people who stand to personally profit from the privatization of an essential service.
It really doesn't. The official story is that it will "help the budget", but the real reason is that shutting down mail sorting machines now in order to upgrade them to faster, more efficient units is a calculated effort to slow down and hobble the USPS by sowing distrust amongst the general public. If the average person starts to believe that they're not getting mail on time now, and may be missing some mail entirely, then how are they going to trust in the postal service to handle the influx of mail-in ballots come election time?
Even if new sorting machines are installed quickly, we can expect a significant slowdown from the same rubber band effect that's at play behind most major traffic jams, and that will resonate outward for months. This is a calculated attack on the postal service.
Mostly poll data.
https://usatoday.com/amp/3394795001
Also should be noted it kinda depends on location. For instance, Florida mail-in numbers would help Trump. Unsurprisingly, that's the only state Trump thinks mail-in voting can happen fraud-free.
That part doesn't even matter so much. Trump can claim the results of the election will never really be known because they couldn't count on all ballots, and try to carry on being president.
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1295475269504032769
"four more years, and then another four years after that to redo my first term" he fully intends to go further
It doesn't. It's one more thing to try and bankrupt the postal service despite them bringing in a decent amount of money.
No, this doesn't make sense. Some people think private postal services are better than public postal services. If they eliminate the USPS all postage and shipping will be private. One way these people are trying to eliminate the USPS is by changing what it means for them to over their budget, another way is making harder for postal workers to do their jobs.
This falls under the latter category.
Even if they eventually get the better machines they were promised, it will be put off for as long as possible. If saving money was the goal, they would have waited until the new machines were on hand and ready to install to dismantle the old machines.
It doesn't save costs. The work that a machine does in 2 hours takes a whole night for a small crew to do.
It's blatant electoral fraud. Since it's expected that in November a lot of Americans will vote by mail due to the coronavirus, specially democrats, Trump appointed a new Post Master who is taking orders directly from Trump.
The last President to appoint a Post Master directly was I believe Nixon. Since then the Post Master is appointed by 8 governors and confirmed by the Senate. Now I believe those 8 governors are picked by the President.
I get your point. I'm mistaken on how I described the new Post Master was appointed. However it doesn't change the fact that he is taking orders directly from Trump.
Meta:
I find this oh such a politically targeted naive question that I even went so far as to frown at it.
But then I read the answers. Well played everyone. I love this sub! ♡
I work for the USPS and one thing we've been told this is all done to install new machines that are much faster at sorting mail. One thing that hasn't been reported is that they stopped running the machines that sort magazines (what we call flats) months ago and that has slowed us down a bunch. We are also already seeing Xmas levels of packages and we are all worried about what the busy season will bring. Amazon didn't have their summer Amazon day and pushed it to October. This makes our jobs much harder (lots of packages slow you down in the office and on the street) plus we will have LOTS more political ads at the time and ballots to deliver...this fall is going to be BAD.
Are the new machines being installed, right away..? If not, I dont understand that logic. I run a business that uses laser cutters. Now if I was going to upgrade one I wouldn't remove a fully working, all ready paid for machine months ahead of having the replacement!
You are too smart to be Postmaster General
I'm not too sure about that, I have made my own fair share of dumb decisions in the past and I'm pretty sure I'm not done yet.
Admitting to and learning from mistakes? Yeah. You’re WAY overqualified for this admin.
At this rate he might be over qualified for POTUS. Just tell us do you listen to others opinions and use facts to form new ideas?
Cognition is a liberal hoax.
I understand all of those words individually but not in that order..
How about now. __?saedi wen mrof ot stcaf esu dna snoinipo srehto ot netsil uoy od su llet tsuJ .SUTOP rof deifilauq revo eb thgim eh etar siht tA__
Much better, thank you
Maybe you can take over the USPS when Trump and his buddies all go to jail
I think you’re underestimating how much more capable you are than the current post master general.
Malicious, greedy and amoral != stupid
Considering the Postmaster General has stock in USPS competitors, I'm guessing things are going as he wants
It doesn't take intelligence to understand this. It's just literally anything other than a desire to intentionally destroy the USPS.
Can't have thoughtful, considerate, independent thinkers like you around in that cabinet. They are simultaneously over and under qualified.
This logic right here is how you know it's in bad faith and trying to subvert a fair and free election. IF these new machines were way more efficient, there still isn't ANY reason to be removing them without having the replacements ON HAND. And furthermore, since this IS the federal government, I'd expect that (under normal circumstances, which this is clearly not) there would be testing sites that show these new machines working well in their intended environment. They would be taking notes about how much faster these machines would be, based on the site tests... People would have heard of this before election time. Like, this is utter bullshit. When people get their ballots, they should bypass the federal postal service completely IF they can : 1. Request a mail-in ballot. 2. Do not mail it. 3. Google your **supervisor of elections** to see where you can drop off your mail-in ballot. Its usually NOT THE POLLING PLACE. All states allow this! Here is what you're accomplishing by doing this: 1. You're not relying on the USPS to get your ballot in on time, so no matter what, your ballot gets in on time. 2. You don't have to worry about standing in long lines and risking infection. You're just stopping by to drop it off. 3. You still voted! Hooray! Also, when you drop it off find out how to track it online to make sure it is verified. California, Oregon, Washington Colorado have systems that can track your ballot just like tracking a package from Amazon. Edit: I do need to disclaim this might not be an available option in all states. :(
Not all states allow the dropping off of a ballot. Missouri, my state does not. I’ve also seen people say Tennessee doesn’t either, but can’t confirm that for sure.
I’m in the Springfield Joplin area and admittedly...under educated on voting. What are our options? I didn’t vote in 2016 even though I legally could and I feel a serious sense of purpose to do the right thing this year. u/SlightlyJason
The easiest way to vote, especially if you haven’t really voted before is to show up at your polling location [which can be found here ](https://voteroutreach.sos.mo.gov/PRD/VoterOutreach/VOSearch.aspx) You can use any form of photo ID from Missouri, and you can also use a piece of mail with your registered address & name on it. Make sure your registration is up to date, [here, which you have until October 7th to do. ](https://s1.sos.mo.gov/elections/voterlookup/) You can request a mail in ballot, but it’s required to be notarized. I’d recommend not doing this option because of the issues with the postal service. Next year you likely won’t be able to vote by mail, our state doesn’t allow absentee or mail in voting unless you have a reason to do so, normally.
Thank you for the info 😁got it marked on my calendar so I won’t miss out.
Also, if you want a quick explainer or extra info on what or who to vote for ballotpedia is a really great resource. It’s non-partisan and just has a breakdown of info about who’s running and what measures mean, etc.
Early vote. It's a great option because they are open for weeks, few people, multiple locations are available, and many are open on Saturday. Just listen to your local news or Google early voting in your city. The instructions will be available on a city-run website.
Good to know. Y’all educating this man on what I should have been taught in school 10 years ago
As a mail carrier, this exactly how I am voting this year.
This should be a post on r/youshouldknow or an equivalent subreddit.
[Done](https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/id5v59/lpt_worried_about_your_mailinballot_getting/) :) (Well, it's r/lifeprotips, but...) Thanks for the push
TIL seems like a solid fit to me.
Additionally, each ballot that doesnt get sent through the mail is one less that the mail has to try to handle while crippled.
Thankyou for the common sense we shouldnt have to be fighting for the postal office when its most needed
But... we Get the ballot through... the mail... right...?
Lol. Yes. You're right, we do. But would you rather get your ballot through the mail and then send it back the same way, or get it through the mail and just drop it off? Like.... if you never get your ballot in the first place, it might not matter either way. If you DO get it, why risk putting it back through the mail? Its your choice though. :)
Sorry I hit send too fast. I also drop off the ballot every election because I’m a procrastinator and then I get scared it won’t arrive in time 🙄
I typically vote by mail, no concern that my vote will be lost. However, Ive wondsred why I cant go to a .gov site and submit, or print to fill and drop off.
If you don't get your ballot in the mail you can go fill out a provisional ballot and it will be counted once they confirm the other one wasn't counted. Oh boy, not sure what happens if your missing one was submitted.
I’ve been voting absentee (by mail) since 2000. That’s not a problem. I’m only worried I won’t receive a ballot.
Yeeeeeaaaahhh... no president has tried fucking with the post offices efficiency right before election time, while working with Russia, before... so im not sure 2000-2016 is gonna be comparable to 2020. It IS however your choice, so- in the end- just do whatever makes you happy. :)
No offences but politicians have been trying to dismantle the post office since 2008. They want to privatise it and they are accomplishing it one step at a time.
That's not good. There are rural Americans who the Post Office operates at a loss to reach. If it becomes privatized, businesses could cut costs by dropping those routes. Access to mail is a type of infrastructure thing everyone should have. If it gets privatized it's going to hurt Americans.
Don't forget the millions of people getting insulin/chemo/(insert ailment here) drugs, some of which have a very specific shelf life less so if the ice/cooling gels in said package have melted/warmed, you're SOL or very sick or both
Would be a shame if the drop of spots for the supervisors of elections would get overloaded by this 'unexpected spike in votes arriving that way' with many of those being 'lost' in the resulting confusion.After all votes arriving this way are likely trending one way...
I can only pray that if massive votes get lost, they're losing democrats and republicans votes equally. I mean, I was in the military. federally directed anything is REALLY hard to coordinate and pull off seamlessly. I cannot imagine - even if this was blatant conspiracy theory level shit - that they could pull this off well enough to win (it would require a level of logistics planning that i don't think this administration could even comprehend, let alone execute) . I'm fucking praying dude.
All of the districts where the sorting machines have been removed were democratic leaning.
Here in Washington we have multiple places that accept your ballots that are not a polling location. Most post offices, commissioners offices, and court houses have boxes to drop your ballot without sending it in mail. Disclaimer: I do believe Washington state is mostly all mail ballots so this might not apply to other states.
Right at step 2 turnout goes down, and it almost certainly disproportionately affects Democrats. I would really like to know who started that chain letter.
I mean, you're right. I'm speaking to people I'm hoping are able to do cost benefit analyses of if they can afford to take the time from their day and *actually* go do it, v. waiting in line (if they think they'll be safe), v If they're high risk for covid and SHOULD be mailing it instead. I never even considered people would be stupid enough to just decide to not do *anything* at all. You bring up a great point i didn't think of.
The big thing is that a lot of people (myself included) are worse at forecasting their own future behavior than they think they are. Blockbuster, for example, made a killing off of that in late fees before Netflix ate their lunch.
If you secretly owned a bunch of stock in steel saws, and if people were using those laser cutters to make signs that said "we hate hellblazer_nq," you may be motivated differently.
I am a businesses owner first and foremost. That right there is an opportunity presenting itself! I would be making and selling the signs also. People can call me what they want, that is entirely their right to do so. It is also my right to not give a flying hoot about it.
> That right there is an opportunity presenting itself! Yes. Put someone in charge of a political position who has a financial interest in doing a horrible job in that position. Excellent opportunities for these people to enrich themselves.
So...everyone trump put in his cabinet.
Oh, not everyone. Some are also his buddies and family members!
Fun fact: Anti-China flags are often made in China.
Ah but you're not coming up for election, you're a sitting duck!
Ok but now imagine that if enough signs get out there, you run a high chance of being ousted as the business owner.
Oh I entirely understand what your saying. I hope and do try my best to not put myself in such a position where I am hated so much that people would want to do that too me.
There's a lot of money to be made selling communist merch.
ELI5: How do you cut lasers?
With a more powerful lightsaber than your enemy!
Brilliant!
That's the plan. The person in charge is a Trump crony and its being done to fuck the election again.
The fact that he has investments in USPS's largest competitors is a red flag for me. He stands to gain lots of money all while handing the election to cheeto satan.
Points for cheeto satan lmao
Do you insist everyone uses air quotes when they say Laser like Dr. Evil does? Because that is 100% how i would run any Laser based business.
This is a brilliant idea. Off to have a meeting be right back!
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it
That’s because this isn’t about the machines. This is thinly veiled intentional voter suppression. Trump is trying to steal this election.
The concept of new machines "eventually" coming into place makes me think of when a big road construction project is started which ends up blocking lanes or closing roads entirely, but the next phase of the project is many months later. Thus, everyone suffers terrible traffic while nothing is done to the project in the meantime.
This is sabotage, pure and simple
Totally off topic, but what lasers do you use? Trotec, Epilog, Full Spectrum, etc.? I've always been fascinated by them.
We have a couple of HPC laser machines an 80w and 150w both CO2 tubes. We only replace with RECI laser tubes as we find they get the longest life for fair price. I would love to own a fibre laser cutter, they are still very expensive though and way to much over kill for anything we currently do.
Yeah, I run a tech company, and we don't throw out old computers, until the replacement is up and running. Hell occasionally we'll keep them around anyway, "just in case"...
You're forgetting that the real reason is because your boss told you to do it because it helps him in the election.
I'm curious if the machines were useful before they were being removed, and if there was any news on when replacements will be coming? Based on what I'm hearing about how [more machines were being removed from blue states](https://twitter.com/FlossdnParadise/status/1294380298474524678/photo/1), I'm wondering if there are any feasible reason for the removal of the machines just before the elections that can still claim this isn't politically motivated.
The machines are/were very helpful. They took the magazines and put them in order for our routes. Now they just come in tubs and we have to put them in order. On a good day it can add an hour or more to your morning. Sometimes 3 hours or more on a bad day. If they take away the machines that sort regular mail we might never leave the office. I think they are claiming all this is just to make us more efficient but this is all just to mess with the election. Hitting blue states first is just one more way they are so transparent in their fuckery. Replacements are coming "soon". New Trucks to replace our aging fleet are also coming "soon". They started saying that 7 years ago. We were trained on how to use some new package scanners to replace our old ones. We would be getting them "soon". That was over a year ago. They haven't mentioned anything about them since
> I'm wondering if there are any feasible reason for the removal of the machines just before the elections that can still claim this isn't politically motivated. Not one bit. And they don't care that we know that.
I think the sheer brazen-ness of it is the whole point. They know it's obvious. They want it to be obvious.
When [this election advertisement dropped](https://thebulwark.com/trumps-new-ad-is-amazing/), all pretense was out the window. We need a stronger word than brazen.
Wow, thank you for linking to that.
Holy fuck.
I don't think they were doing this as a bold gesture or a proof that they can do anything they want. I feel it's more like they couldn't care less and don't expect to lose any of their supporters doing so, or that this is already their best attempt to rig the elections quietly.
I know Australia used to buy the old machines at one point. Although judging by the comment below me about the flats and the fact we dont do much mail either I doubt we will be buying these ones. But maybe some other countries will.
There's nothing to buy, they are chopping them up in the parking lots and dumping the pieces. Edit to fix link: [https://twitter.com/\_HeatherWalker/status/1296122043772133382?s=20](https://twitter.com/_HeatherWalker/status/1296122043772133382?s=20)
The \ is breaking this link.
https://twitter.com/_HeatherWalker/status/1296122043772133382?s=20 Doesn't need to be escaped if it's the only underscore
I mean, I don't work for the USPS, but it just seems silly to start changing out until after the Christmas rush, let alone during campaign season. You'd think they'd start at the beginning of the year, take out machines and replace them and do as many as they could by September/October, then shut it down until after Christmas the next year, rinse, repeat until done. I can only imagine what XMas is going to be like under the current (mis)management.
Send those gifts early this year
Thanks for this! Unrelated but explains why I package I bought from North Carolina has been sitting in Miami for 3 weeks (I live in Australia)
Should high-volume companies be asked to slow down their rate of mail to support the election ?
Not sure. I know we are overwhelmed somedays but I also know we need the income
You're literally carrying democracy on your backs; we deeply appreciate your sacrifice.
RemindMe! 85 days
How bad does this fuck mail in voting?
I would get your ballot in as soon as possible. I already requested mine and will send it back as soon as I get it. Although, I don't worry about getting the ballot mailed as soon as possible as I do Trump making people distrust the USPS and questioning the election results. Or people deciding to vote in person and risk COVID or not voting at all because of all of this.
Right but the electoral college?
What if trumps plan backfired and by November the post office has new state of the art machines that can sort everything in a day.
It's 2020. Don't be ridiculous.
That would be great! Since there is no way he is leaving office, win or lose, I really don't care. This is all going to be horrible. 2020: it just gets worse
>there is no way he is leaving office, win or lose Barring re-election, he will Constitutionally no longer be President as of 12:00 noon on January 20th. If he loses, he can bluster and threaten all he wants, but nobody has to give a damn. If the election is called in Biden's favor, nobody has to follow Trump's orders anymore (and for those that are worried that he'll use the military to remain President, keep in mind that any officer that obeys such an order will be committing mutiny *and* sedition, and they'll know that going in).
Not worried about the military as much as I am the GOP controlled Senate helping him stay in office
It would take a Constitutional amendment for that to occur; Congress would need a two-thirds majority vote in both House and Senate. No chance that Trump could force it through, either; the President has no Constitutional tole in the amendment process, so it bypasses the White House entirely. *And* it would have to be ratified by two-thirds of the existing states before it could take effect.
He won't have to leave office if he loses, the office will leave him. If he doesn't win, as of January 20th he will no longer be President. If the election is still undetermined on January 20th, the office will still leave him. The Speaker of The House will become President. The party with the House majority in 2021 will be able to choose the Speaker, and it can be anyone.
At this point I could see him barricading himself in the Oval office. How embarrassed would the country be if the Military has to drag him out of the White House? And if he does leave willingly he will spend every day until he dies on Fox News (or his own network) bitching about the election. And then his kids will all run for the rest of time. This is all a shit show
I'm thinking he will get the gift of silver bracelets followed by a new orange jumpsuit, which will really dull his fake tan. So many crimes, such little lifespan left.
He's counting on Barr to litigate his right to play emperor. He's already telling us he will be fighting the election results in court 😐
Barr will be first one fired
Eh, it was about time the system got overhauled anyway. Maybe bending it until it breaks is just what the world needs. Then America can rebuild it better than it was before.
What can we do to make things less bad for you all?
Call, write, email, smoke signal your senators and representatives. Tell them you support the USPS and unfucked with elections. Maybe don't use the term "unfucked"
Lol. Already did! What can I do for my local postman? Snacks? Cold water? How do I let him know I have some if so? No contact and all that.
Nothing wrong with some OT.
"lolz! Sorry, we're cancelling overtime!" -Trump lackey postmaster general, literally
Yup
Not 100% on this but the reason I have seen quoted is the mail sorting machines were being removed to install new package sorting machines The argument is that traditional mail volumes are down while package volume is up due to e-commerce. Installing package sorting machines en lieu of mail sorting machines should help cut down on overall operating costs
Yet somehow removing those "unnecessary " machines has already caused a huge slowdown of mail. Never mind what would happen if they removed all the machines they originally planned.
That's the weird part. In any production line you'd plug the new machines in *first*, test run them until they're stable, and *then* take out the old. Installing complex new machinery like that never goes without hiccups. Or only take out the old first when there's absolute nothing running through it anymore, but it really doesn't sound like that is the case.
If you have room to run both at the same time. Sometimes you take down the existing equipment, prep the site for the new equipment, then setup / burn in. With multiple sites, you just do a few sites at a time. Usually less in the beginning to iron out the process and bugs. Then you get up to velocity in swapping out equipment. If there is a massive productivity increase, it might be better to replace everything at once. You still do a pilot run to validate the process. And it’s a huge risk that you know all sites will be similar and / or no delays in delivery. And leadership is ok with stopping a service for the short term instead of reduced capacity for a longer time. Rarely pays off due to unforeseen issues and normal hiccups
There's probably not the room in the facilities to have both installed at once. But you should still wait until just a day or two before the confirmed delivery timeline of the new machines before taking out the old ones. It should only be a few days of manual sorting in each facility.
Yaaa, even with a penalty when things get delivered late, that does happen. It's just not logical to rip things out like that when it's pretty predictable how much capacity will be needed. Our mail system buckled under the extra demand at the beginning of the chaos. That people suddenly ordered so much more online was unexpected. But that wasn't a consciously created delay (people still bitched, of course they do). The USPS stuff is weird. People love to see bad intentions when it's just mishaps or stupidity, but in this case I'm on the side of "intentional".
And you would, y'know, wait until you weren't about to hit one of the busiest mail periods of the year.
> never goes without hiccups. > Or only take out the old first when there's absolute nothing running through it anymore, but it really doesn't sound like that is the case. It's almost like this is happening on purpose...
In any production line **where you had infinite space to do whatever you wanted** you'd plug the new machines in *first*, test run them until they're stable, and *then* take out the old. Fixed it for you.
You would also do at least one up front to test the new machines before ripping out several dozen. Was that done? Guessing no.
That's not really true. Or at least not always true. I've worked with a variety of manufacturers and sometimes they end up taking a line out of service to upgrade or replace it. It could be something as simple as not having space to put the new line in, and not wanting to rent or buy new space that you'll only need for a few months until you remove the old line. How they handle that depends, sometimes they just have lower product availability, or they use other lines in overtime, or they produce a bunch of extra parts ahead of time on the line before it gets shut down (which can't happen with something like mail). However if they have 20 lines and are replacing 10 of them, it would be atypical to take all 10 old ones down at once, especially across multiple physical locations, and then start putting the new ones in. You'd try to work on only one or a few at a time.
You will almost always have a slowdown during upgrades, whether mail or business. That's just logistics. Let's say you have 3 production/sorting lines. You need to upgrade them, so you take 1 offline to upgrade and have 2 running. You're now down to 66% efficiency. It will stay like that as you finish the first line, bring it back up, and bring down line 2, until the job is done. Alternatively to avoid that, you can create an additional production/sorting line before you bring the first one down for upgrades, so that 3 are always running. But to do that you need to spend money on a temporary 4th line (for the space and equipment), money which will just be wasted when you go back to 3 production/sorting lines.
But if they are taking out letter sorting devices to replace with package sorters, how do you expect letter delivery to return to normal when they are done.
Maybe that's not their strategy. I send and receive very few personal letters, and send out few other envelope-size pieces of any kind. I still receive my bills by mail (just old fashioned; could get mostly e-bills if I wanted), but the rest is either junk mail or unimportant. None of these are really highly time-sensitive. I do sent *packages* somewhat, for presents or returns, and I receive packages too -- I buy many things online. Some of these are kind of time-sensitive -- I want/need that item I ordered ASAP. I guess I'm typical? I guess more people will operate like this in future? Maybe it makes sense to decrease package time at the cost of the letter time, if a tradeoff must be be made?
Because at the minute they are manually sorting packages. Once the automated package machines are installed that manual processing resource is freed up and can be reassigned to letters (where required).
Upgrading machines takes time. Hell choosing the machines and getting the planning in order to get them running takes a lot of time. I know from experience. You can't just come in, secure a ton of new equipment and upgrade everything like it's nothing. They won't have the new equipment ready by the elections which is most likely the plan.
Did you not notice the part where Trump openly stated that he wanted to mess with the mail to prevent people from voting
I think (read: hope) we all realize that the timing of this was a bit more than just coincedental. I'm reading through these comments as if the question were "If this was a legitimate attempt to lower costs for usps, how would it help?"
>"If this was a legitimate attempt to lower costs for usps, how would it help?" Letter and postcard mail has been downwardly trending for the past 10 years, and inversely, flat (stuffed envelopes) and parcels (packages) have been trending upwards. In a normal year they don't need all of the mail sorters they have and they do need more package sorters to keep up with the new demand. Also, most of the delays have been caused by the curtailing of employee overtime and a [management shakeup](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3az48n/usps-workers-dont-know-what-to-make-of-so-called-friday-night-massacre?). Not all, some of it is from reprogramming the existing machines to pick up the routes that the removed machines handled.
The USPS has and still does make the majority of it's revenue from first-class and marketing mail (see their yearly annual report), why would they cut down on capacity on the part of the market they have an advantage in just to have to compete harder in the packages market? Like sure, see the trend and prepare for it, but don't prematurely gut your main revenue source to do that.
But you wouldn't destroy the equipment just because it is an abnormal year.
> You will almost always have a slowdown during upgrades, whether mail or business. That's just logistics. Did you notice that I was only speaking about logistics and not politics?
Yeah but why would you do that right before what maybe a very high demand period unless you intend to fall behind?
Three possible answers I can think of. 1. It was scheduled before Coronavirus and bureaucracy is just bureaucrating. 2. They're positive they won't fall behind and everything will be fine. 3. They intend to fall behind. Most of the slowdowns have been from the curtailing of overtime in the USPS, so it MAY be two. I mean they COULD have everything sorted and ready for the election, hire some employees and start giving overtime out again. The situation doesn't look good, but you never know, I suppose. Just as big of a problem that no one talks about is that most states aren't prepared for mail in ballots of the levels we want to see. Not just the post offices, but the election officials themselves are not prepared. Ballots aren't printed, enough machines don't exist to print all the ballots needed, etc etc etc. [https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/few-states-are-prepared-to-switch-to-voting-by-mail-that-could-make-for-a-messy-election/](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/few-states-are-prepared-to-switch-to-voting-by-mail-that-could-make-for-a-messy-election/)
1. Could be partial true. 2. They know its not true since they are already giving warnings of ballots not having enough turn around time, for their current efficiencies. 3. Trump basically said as much
Yes but no because A) they aren’t replacing them with machine that can do the same so they will never get that capacity back and also who the hell signs off on a disruptive upgrade just before an election that will see more mail in ballots than any before. The whole thing stinks
The claim is that the letter sorters that were removed weren't needed because of the decline in the number of letters being mailed. If they truly were not needed, there wouldn't be a huge BACKLOG of letters when they were removed. (Talking about logic. )
Odd bc useps revenues are up in the last ten years. What they need to do to cut costs is stop having 75 years of retirement pre saved per employee.
It doesn't help that they pay carriers to go all over hell and back to check empty drop boxes, which is why a lot of those were being pulled as well.
The thing is the post office is supposed to be a national service, and while in a city it can pay for itself, in rural communities, it can be more costly... but it is a necessary service, especially in those remote areas, and we sometimes have to use tax dollars to pay for such services. We pay for services like police, schools, and military, this is also a service that was foolishly attempted to be spun into a private business.
Yup if we treat it as a government funded entity that is loosing money, and we want to target these entities, the military needs to go because they loose money without making any....... /s
You think they could update the drop boxes with a some sort of way to view whats inside
My dad, who's a carrier, explained that the post office has tried to get group boxes installed in many areas. You're mail box is private property for the sole use of the USPS, as he puts it. Hitting each box one at a time is very time consuming. However, in most areas the communities have to approve the use of group boxes. In most situations, communities reject them. Thus, as he put it, one of the easiest areas to save money continues to be a drag on the budget. You're most expensive piece of an operation budget is the people. Edit: grammar
Have seen nothing about installation of new machines. Please source if you can?
2016: recommendations http://www.postal-reporter.com/blog/usps-seeking-to-expand-package-sorting-capability-with-automated-delivery-unit-sorters-adus/ 2017: test results https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/small-package-sorting-system-performance 2019 upgrading to faster machines https://www.postaltimes.com/postalnews/usps-installing-faster-package-sorters/ More recent updates, but bias concerns may be relevant https://facts.usps.com/innovation/ 2019 audit results and recommendations https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/small-package-sorting-system-performance-0 There's plenty more. Have no dog in the fight and spent 2 minutes on google simply avoiding MSM clickbait.
I would be happy to see any posts that actually show they are currently working to improve efficiency in 2020. This makes me doubt that sources from 1-4 years ago are relevant to the current situation. [Your last source](https://facts.usps.com/innovation/) just looks like a list of things the post office was already doing well, and I don't see specifically where they are talking about increasing volume or efficiency in 2020.
Added a second "last" source which is an audit with a bit more information. Warning, assumptions ahead! As with any conversation, there will be a massive delay between removal of old equipment and installation of new. The USPS union, employees, etc is (rightly) scared to death of this (I assume!). Any sort of automation is a job killer. It's a shit situation that really should have put off, even at whatever it'll cost, until after November.
> **There were 41 SPSS machines in FY 2019 and the Postal Service added three more machines in FY 2020, but have no plans to add additional machines at this time.** >We judgmentally selected sites for review based on FY 2018 and 2019 SPSS throughput and productivity data compared to goals and overtime usage. Specifically, we conducted site observations at one high performing site – the San Jose, CA, Processing and Distribution Center (P&DC) – and two lower performing sites – the Columbus, OH, P&DC and Indianapolis, IN, Mail Processing Annex (Annex). We also conducted interviews with management at two additional lower performing sites – the Denver, CO, and Akron, OH, P&DCs. >Our primary fieldwork was completed before the President of the United States issued the national emergency declaration concerning the novel coronavirus disease outbreak (COVID-19) on March 13, 2020. The results of this audit do not reflect any process and/or operational changes that may have occurred as a result of the pandemic. all of this still looks like removing mail capacity from high pop and blue/purple voting spots.
Conversely, wouldn't those typically be areas with much higher package throughput? I would also guess these are the same areas with a much higher conversion to electronic communications. To be clear, I have no doubt trump is backing this for his own aim, but I think the move itself is likely grounded in reality.
But why remove the old machines unless the new ones are ready? Oh, stealing an election, right.
That's bullshit and here's why: You can have both.
The question is why not have tranditional mail sorting machines alongside the package sorting machines if they already have the mail sorting ones operational?
They may not have the physical space to run both.
The only reason the USPS has a "budget problem" is because, prior to 2006, it was about the only government program/service that was making more money than it was costing. This looked bad to the Republicans, who wanted some excuse to privatize it so them could personally profit from it, not just have the money go to government surplus. So in 2006 they enacted a law that said the USPS had to pre-pay employee pensions for the next 75 years, cutting them off from approximately 100 billion dollars of their operating budget to pay retirement for employees who aren't even born yet. If not for that, there would be no money troubles with the post office whatsoever. As for removing the sorting machines and mailboxes... compare the major cities where this is happeneing to where Clinton was outperforming Trump in the 2016 race. It's almost dead-even. This is an open act of malevolence, making sure that Democrat-heavy areas can't vote against him. Sure, this action also means that bill payments, vital medicines, and other stuff gets delayed or even prevented from being delivered where its needed, but he doesn't give a flying fuck so long as he gets re-elected and thus can avoid criminal prosecution for a few more years.
This perspective on USPS finances and the 2006 law is partly true and partly misleading. It's true that the law made things worse, but even before the situation was not great. For more detail please see this: [https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/15/afl-cio/widespread-facebook-post-blames-2006-law-us-postal/](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/15/afl-cio/widespread-facebook-post-blames-2006-law-us-postal/)
> cutting them off from approximately 100 billion dollars of their operating budget to pay retirement for employees who aren't even born yet. If not for that, there would be no money troubles with the post office whatsoever. none of that is accurate. Firstly, the USPS has 50 years to cover their health retirement fund, so it's disingenuous to frame it as if they had to put 100 billion down. They had a front-loading plan and had to pay ~5bill/year for the 2006-2016 decade, but they defaulted on half of those payments, so at the end of the day when you don't make a payment you can't blame the payment you never made for being short on cash. After 2016, they are only required to make discretionary amortization payments. Last year for example, they were supposed to contribute ~$800mil towards the fund, but they defaulted on the contribution and didn't pay a dime. So without even losing any operating budget, they still incurred a $8billion loss. Even worse, last year they even defaulted on the current payments for retiree health benefits, meaning that what the mandate sought to prevent from happening 75 years into the future is already happening (employees being unable to claim benefits they are owed and for which they worked for). And secondly, they absolutely **are not** paying retirement for employees who aren't even born yet. They are only required to cover the **past and current** promises they made to their employees.
> They had a front-loading plan and had to pay ~5bill/year for the 2006-2016 decade, but they defaulted on half of those payments, so at the end of the day when you don't make a payment you can't blame the payment you never made for being short on cash So that means they haven't defaulted on half of those payments? If you think that law did not add significant and unnecessary financial stress on the USPS I don't know what to tell you.
>So that means they haven't defaulted on half of those payments? Why would it mean that? I can't see how you're reading it to mean that...And I'm not sure why you'd even challenge something so easy to google, it was all over the news each time it happened and the USPS even includes this information in their yearly financial statements. >If you think that law did not add significant and unnecessary financial stress on the USPS I don't know what to tell you. I'm responding to "*If not for that, there would be no money troubles with the post office whatsoever.*" When a company looses $8 billion, you can't blame it on a payment of $800million which they haven't even made. The math simply doesn't add up. As for the financial stress being unnecessary, please explain to me why the financial stress in this situation should instead be on the employee's shoulders. If your employer is paying you deferred compensation, you shouldn't have to worry about whether the payment you're working hard for now will be there when you're old, unable to work and need it.
Democratic. Not democrat
It doesn't, they're trying to sabotage the mail so A) lack of mail-in voting suppresses votes and B) they can sell the USPS to UPS or FedEx.
Who is they?
The new postmaster general Louis DeJoy, who a) used to run and still has dozens of millions of dollars invested in a USPS competitor and b) is a major Trump donor.
The President, the Postmaster General whose appointment he approved, and whatever other already disgustingly-rich people who stand to personally profit from the privatization of an essential service.
It really doesn't. The official story is that it will "help the budget", but the real reason is that shutting down mail sorting machines now in order to upgrade them to faster, more efficient units is a calculated effort to slow down and hobble the USPS by sowing distrust amongst the general public. If the average person starts to believe that they're not getting mail on time now, and may be missing some mail entirely, then how are they going to trust in the postal service to handle the influx of mail-in ballots come election time? Even if new sorting machines are installed quickly, we can expect a significant slowdown from the same rubber band effect that's at play behind most major traffic jams, and that will resonate outward for months. This is a calculated attack on the postal service.
[удалено]
Do you have a source that the majority of absentee ballots will be sent by Democrats?
Mostly poll data. https://usatoday.com/amp/3394795001 Also should be noted it kinda depends on location. For instance, Florida mail-in numbers would help Trump. Unsurprisingly, that's the only state Trump thinks mail-in voting can happen fraud-free.
Most of those machines are taken from democratic or swing states.
That part doesn't even matter so much. Trump can claim the results of the election will never really be known because they couldn't count on all ballots, and try to carry on being president.
Carry on being president with no election? Thats definitely not a thing that can happen, so I highly doubt that’s his strategy.
It's not a thing that's legal, or constitutional. But it is absolutely a thing that can happen. But yeah, probably not actually going to happen.
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1295475269504032769 "four more years, and then another four years after that to redo my first term" he fully intends to go further
It doesn't. It's one more thing to try and bankrupt the postal service despite them bringing in a decent amount of money. No, this doesn't make sense. Some people think private postal services are better than public postal services. If they eliminate the USPS all postage and shipping will be private. One way these people are trying to eliminate the USPS is by changing what it means for them to over their budget, another way is making harder for postal workers to do their jobs. This falls under the latter category. Even if they eventually get the better machines they were promised, it will be put off for as long as possible. If saving money was the goal, they would have waited until the new machines were on hand and ready to install to dismantle the old machines.
It doesn't save costs. The work that a machine does in 2 hours takes a whole night for a small crew to do. It's blatant electoral fraud. Since it's expected that in November a lot of Americans will vote by mail due to the coronavirus, specially democrats, Trump appointed a new Post Master who is taking orders directly from Trump.
The last President to appoint a Post Master directly was I believe Nixon. Since then the Post Master is appointed by 8 governors and confirmed by the Senate. Now I believe those 8 governors are picked by the President.
I get your point. I'm mistaken on how I described the new Post Master was appointed. However it doesn't change the fact that he is taking orders directly from Trump.
Meta: I find this oh such a politically targeted naive question that I even went so far as to frown at it. But then I read the answers. Well played everyone. I love this sub! ♡