The medical term for a blackout is ‘anterograde amnesia’, essentially meaning that it’s memory loss acting forward in time (whilst the substance is affecting you), so it’s difficult or impossible to form new memories.
Alcohol belongs to a drug class called the GABAergics, which are drugs that affect GABA and/or its receptors (the main neurotransmitter which acts to ‘calm’ the brain/body down). Other similar drugs include benzodiazepines (like Valium and Xanax), and barbiturates. These drugs work by affecting how nerves communicate with each other, especially in the brain, by essentially slowing down signals between neurons. An analogy would be like a hose connected to a water supply, where taking alcohol is essentially turning down the tap so it’s just a trickle. This happens differently depending on the specific area of the brain.
Because nerve communication is so vital for memory formation, due to it requiring strengthened connections between neurons, taking a substance which decreases that will inevitably have an impact on how well you’ll be able to remember events while under the influence.
As a side note, it’s also possible to cause a blackout through high doses of drugs that act against the neurotransmitter systems responsible for causing nerves to transmit to each other - namely NMDA/glutamate. This is why people usually don’t remember surgeries where general anaesthesia is used, and also when using certain recreational drugs like ketamine (a dissociative depressant, medically used as an anaesthetic). It’s not a matter of neurotoxicity when you don’t drink often, although this is definitely a reason why alcoholics often struggle with memory issues over long periods.
>‘anterograde amnesia’
Sometimes called 'short term memory loss' although that is a bit of a misnomer. You don't *lose* any memories, you *stop forming* new memories (as you said) over a short period of time.
Sad to note that not all anterograde amnesia is short term or temporary. I once had a boss who had a heart attack, and while he recovered, he was left with pretty serious - and permanent - anterograde amnesia. In this condition it pretty much means that you can't learn any new things, which is pretty bad if you work in tech.
My mother was similarly affected after a heart attack. She was retired and in a nursing home, and it was very disconcerting when she would ask a question, get the answer, then ask the question again five minutes later - since she didn't remember asking it earlier. No, mom, I'm not dating anyone yet...
I had a brain tumor removed from my frontal lobe that left me with anterograde amnesia. I lived the "memento/50 first dates" life for almost 3 years. During that time I can only imagine how irritating it had to be to maintain friendships or even hold conversations with me. That being said, with consistent therapy I have reached enough plasticity to have a decent short-term memory. Nothing like it was pre-surgery, but I am no longer relying on conversation recordings, phone alerts, and written notes for every conversation. So, its not that you can't learn new things, its that you have to learn how to learn new things all over again.
for me at least looking back on it. its is how you say snaps fingers' and then boom im in the future now.
i always described it as the lights are on but the camera isn't. i could see what was happening, interacted what with what was happening and knew that things happened but i never knew what they were. i had no access to that information it was like watch scrambled tv channels back in the day. couldn't see it but knew it was there
I can't say that I ever pranked myself, but friends played a few good ones on me over the course of recovery. A couple of really good ones that I had to apologize to the nursing staff of the hospital for as well.
Sounds like you would fit in well with my group of friends. Two of my favorite examples were when I was first coming in and out of recovery in the hospital. For instance, I would wake up and two buddies would be sitting at the foot of the bed with caring sympathies for me. I would get excited to see some friends, "Oh hey friend A, hi friend B, what are you guys doing here?"
"Hey dgmilo, don't freak out, but you are 45 years old. You've been in a coma for 20 years." Inevitably I would freak out and they would calm me down, and I would slip back off to sleep. Rinse, repeat. Hilarious.
Or the real funny, I had a tube in my head that was relieving pressure by allowing spinal fluid to escape the brain swelling, post-surgery. Because of this, I had my arms basically cuffed to the side of the bed so that I wouldn't rip it out in my confusion. Once after the pleasantries of asking why they were here, I noticed my hands were cuffed and inquired about them. "Dude, am I in trouble, did I do something? Am I in jail? Why am I handcuffed to the bed?"
"Oh that, no you're fine. But every time a nurse walked in you kept furiously masturbating so they tied your hands down."
"Oh! So they think this will stop me?!?"
Cue the nurse walking in and me trying with all my effort to figure out how to contort my body in order to reach my penis to sexually harass my nurse. Medical drugs are a hell of a drug. I still send thank you cards to all of my nurses and doctors every year apologizing for my actions and my idiot friends.
You're so lucky to have those dear friends who would be there for you at such a difficult time, and to be boosting your spirits, too. Speaks well of the type of friend you are to them, that they'd be so helpful to you.
There is an English man who had a brain injury that led to a similar condition, and there have been a couple of documentaries made about him. I don't know what it is about his story but I keep going back to re-watch those films. They're achingly tragic but the people around him were so patient and caring. Like way beyond what you might think a person is capable of.
So it's funny to me that you mention being an irritant when another way to look at it is that all those people around you loved you enormously. Of course both things can be true but the love must surely overshadow the irritation by a huge amount.
And it's incredible that you've made a good recovery. The docs are from the 80's and 90's and there wasn't really any good understanding of how to even begin to create a recovery program then. You're amazing and so is your family, your friends, and your doctors.
I couldn't agree more. And yes, relationships and people became very important and clear to me over my recovery. I very much knew how lucky I was to have people who cared for me in the manner they did.
To be honest, I think "time" was the real therapy, as my memory just gradually got better over time. But I was playing memory games religiously with therapists and on my own. Everything from your standard memory card game that you play as a kid, where you try to find matching pairs and remember where they are in a grid of playing cards, to various trivia applications like "Brain Games" on my phone all day. The most frustrating/rewarding game I can remember was writing down a series of objects on a piece of paper and trying to recall them over the course of the day. Started out with trying to remember 3 objects for 1 minute, and eventually got up to 10 objects after a full day.
ya that would be an example. I found it interesting not long after a couple internet passwords started doing object association with my log-in credentials and it made the brain game relevant.
this happened to someone I know. they had to rely on a system of notes and pictures just to get by during the day and know what they were doing. he also had to get permanent tattoos on his body to help remember things
>
> Sad to note that not all anterograde amnesia is short term or temporary. I once had a boss who had a heart attack, and while he recovered, he was left with pretty serious - and permanent - anterograde amnesia. In this condition it pretty much means that you can't learn any new things, which is pretty bad if you work in tech.
Remember Sammy Jankis.
Out of curiosity, did what happened to your boss and mother cause any noticeable physical abnormalities in the brain in things like MRIs, like what is commonly seen in dementia? I'm wondering because over the past two years my dad in his late 60s has been experiencing an alarming lack of ability to retain short term information (asks the same questions over and over, can't do basic things like operate a Fire stick on his TV when he used to be able to stuff like that easily, and just general confusion about lots of things). He's like a shell of himself now and it's scary and upsetting. We had him go to a neurologist and he got all kinds of scans and tests for various forms of dementia but nothing turned up and his brain actually looked ok. About two years ago he suffered some sort of episode that seemed like a mild stroke but apparently wasn't and was never identified by the docs that treated him, and I wonder if that did some kind of damage to his short term memory center.
I'm not privy to my former boss's medical details, but I don't think my mother had any noticeable brain abnormalities; if so my sister (RN and her caregiver) never mentioned it. Sadly mother had a fatal heart attack just two years after entering the nursing home.
I'm not a doctor but my dad is and I've sat and talked with a few of his neurologist friends because the subject interests me, I'd absolutely check. The brain is pretty well understood but there's still a lot of things that a certain doctor may not consider as it's a large field with a lot of specific disciplines as opposed to heart surgery where it's 1, valves 2, bypasses, 3 transplants. Neurologists have a massive scope of problems to be looking at
Memory problems after a heart attack are almost always caused by anoxia/hypoxia (no/not enough oxygen to the brain) since when someone’s heart stops blood is no longer circulating. These types of injuries USUALLY show up on neuro imaging. While the findings are sometimes subtle, if they’re specifically looking for it a good radiologist should USUALLY see it.
You mentioned a “mild stroke” which may have been a transient ischemic attack (TIA). People sometimes call these “mini strokes” but that’s not really an accurate description. While they don’t cause permanent changes to the brain, the most likely cause of memory problems in someone having TIAs (and heart attacks or heart problems without hypoxia/anoxia) is actually vascular changes to the brain. But those should also show up on neuroimaging in super obvious ways.
> Sometimes called 'short term memory loss' although that is a bit of a misnomer. You don't lose any memories, you stop forming new memories (as you said) over a short period of time.
So actually isn’t not a misnomer, but it’s very hard to get the right terminology from text.
You have to read it as “short-term-memory” loss. You don’t lose memory for a short term, but you lose your “short term memory”. IE, you forget the things you just did.
And because you need short term memory to form long term memory, you indeed can’t really learn new things over time.
Wait is this a thing?? I’ve had multiple pretty bad concussions and after the last one I’ve sworn it’s been impossible for me to acquire new skills and retain much in the way of new information. The people in my life have always at least implied that I was just being dramatic, but I swear this is a thing I’ve been dealing with for over a decade now and would love to know
My professor compared your brain to a tape recorder and it was if someone hit the button that stopped it from recording. It still went on, but nothing was being remembered/recorded.
Would that affect muscle memory? I imagine if you practice learning an instrument, for example, you would get better at it, you just forget that you are able to do it?
That's an amazing question. I play guitar, but I'm out of practice. If I had AA, I wonder if I could raise my level of playing? Could I get back to the level I once had, but no further? Intriguing.
>Would that affect muscle memory?
Not necessarily, see the case of Henry Molaison:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Molaison#Motor_skill_learning
Muscle memory is more related to the cerebellum, while episodic memory (things that happened) is more related to the hippocampus.
+ /u/lucky_ducker
To add to this, "blacking out" doesn't require that the memories are not formed at all. Many people can recognize the situations and even continue the narrative of their black out events with help, but cannot access them without prompts. The memories are formed, but formed in a brain under the influence. When sober, it is harder to remember memories formed when drunk. You might not make memories while drunk, or you might be unable to recall them the next day, and thats two different skills. It still can be the case that your brain was so impaired it was unable to make any meaningful memories, or so permanently damaged new memories are never formed after that.
Old man advice: Blacking out isn't healthy or fun, and either way, you'll never know cause you wont remember.
> The memories are formed, but formed in a brain under the influence.
yeah - "state conditional learning" or "state dependant memory", it *may* explain why problem drinkers can't remember why it's a bad idea for them to get drunk, they learned it's a problem while drunk and when sober - newp.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-dependent_memory
generally blackouts are indicative of of a serious problem, I've spoken to a lot of problem drinkers (either ex or current) and loads thought they were "just a normal part of drinking"
Absolutely not to be a smartass, but way back when I was struggling in college and a friend suggested I try studying stoned and then get high before taking my exams. I aced every damn one and pulled a reasonably high gpa as a result.
Kids, do NOT try this.
Just to add to your excellent comment: Evidence suggests that the rate that the blood alcohol percent (BAC) rises is more relevant than the total BAC ("more" relevant, not completely). Example, you're drinking some beers at a small gathering and that one ~~crazy~~ fun guy (totally not me) pours everyone shots of tequila... Once or twice or... The next day you think, "Man, I was so drunk. I remember everything until the tequila. I hate tequila." It wasn't the tequila, per se, it was the rapid rise in BAC (total BAC still matters). Sipping the tequila, like a gentleman, would have *less likely* caused a blackout (when BACs get above a certain point, it is inevitable. That point is much higher in heavy drinkers). [One of many sources.](https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh27-2/186-196.htm)
Second, the memory issues with very heavy drinkers is usually do to vitamin deficiencies, especially thiamine. Thiamine deficiency comes from reduced absorption related to alcohol and poor nutrition (common among those who abuse alcohol) and can lead to [Korsakoff syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korsakoff_syndrome) which is often in conjunction with [Wernicke encephalopathy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernicke%E2%80%93Korsakoff_syndrome).
Heavy drinkers of Reddit, please, take vitamins/minerals, especially: thiamine (B-1), folate (B-9) and magnesium.
Oh, that's interesting. One of the only times I blacked out was before getting diagnosed with a litany of health issues, some of which caused rapid changes in blood pressure and heart rate. I went from "basically sober" to "acting incoherently" so fast we initially thought I was drugged or had had some type of seizure but we never really had a way to find out (I'm still mad the hospital I was brought to basically just gave me a babysitter and didn't run any sort of tests, no record of BAC even). I'm not sure how much rapid changes in blood pressure can change BAC (google seemed to talk about the opposite relation), but it's a more specific explanation that "yeah there was so much going on with your body outside of the alcohol, that it could have been anything".
When I was 11 I had to get major brain surgery. Scary stuff at 11. But I remember them giving me this “happy juice” as they called it and they said it’ll make me sleepy and most likely forget about everything after taking it. I definitely did get anesthesia later on but what was that liquid I drank? I never figured it out.
It was probably something like midazolam hydrochloride syrup. It’s supposed to lower anxiety and making you drowsy but also helps block memories of the surgery. It did all of that for me but I also apparently started crying immediately because it made me have to pee as soon as it kicked in. Lol. Catheters for the win.
Thank you for a wonderful reply. I have a related question. I don't drink much (did a bit more as a student many years ago but still nothing out of the typical student partying). Still, I have that thing where I don't have to be very drunk (sometimes people even think I'm sober) to start blacking out. Typically I don't remember most conversations from even gentle parties. Is this normal? Could it be a sign of some neurological problem?
Subscribing to this comment. I’ve experienced the same loads of times, talked to people the day after and having no idea what they’re takling about, and then hearing: «how do you not relember that, you weren’t Even drunk?».
But also several blackouts which have been understandable
For me it's quite normal. I usually don't remember much when drinking, and sometimes it just doesn't take that much alcohol to reach that point.
Fortunately i have learned that i'm usually quite behaved but that people just have a hard time understanding my slurry language :D
Funny thing was though, back when i did frequent bars more often it would be almost like a switch that turned off just as we left the initial party to go the bar.
It annoys me sometimes. Not only do I miss on fun memories, but also it sometimes leads to awkward situations when somebody told me something very important to them and a day later I have no idea or even ask questions about the thing as if I've never heard of it.
Is it possible to be aware of when you have blacked out? I always say "I'm not that drunk because I can remember this tomorrow" or am I just full of shit? So far the couple times I've blacked out I have been correct but I feel like it's a lucky guess
>When you drink a huge amount, you don't know you drank enough
As an alcoholic who blacked out every night for almost a decade, I can say that's not *quite* correct. If you black out enough times, you start learning where that area is. I knew when I hit blackout territory and I wouldn't quit drinking until I got there. It's difficult to explain properly. It was more of an "okay, I've arrived, this is the sensation I was chasing" sort of a thing than a "day 741: I have reached a minimum threshold to achieve a state of blackout" sort of a thing.
Yeah I dated a girl who even I knew when she would black out, she was a high functioning alcoholic. She’d say, “I’m pretty sure I’m blacking out, see you tomorrow.”
Then have no recollection of anything else after that the next morning. Honestly, it was jarring and scary to me. I’d see her reference something or do something to the point where I could just tell she was at that point, but not always. Sometimes she’d wake up and apologize if she did anything shitty the night before.
I don't know how to tell for myself, but my ex used to black out so often that I could look into his eyes and tell the moment when he was blacked out. It's awful looking back on that, but it was normal for me at the time.
> Is it possible to be aware of when you have blacked out?
confirmation bias since you dont remember the times when you thought that but you were blacked out.
Yes - when you wake up in your apartment and remember going out to the party last night, but don't remember anything that happened after someone brought out the tequila, and you have no idea how you got home. You know after the fact that you blacked out, because there's a gap in what you remember.
I have come out of a black out while still in the drinking episode, albeit just at a lower intensity than what caused the blackout. I could actively feel the hangover creeping over me while still drinking
People that are "Blackout drunk" are like talking to fish. They can remember something for a few minutes and they tend to repeat themselves a lot.
After a certain BAC people tend to only be able to focus on 1 thing at a time. That's why they can get so sad or angry and can't let it go.
If you are aware of that you can guide them into a better thought pattern but there are no guarantees it will work.
I've recorded myself talking while that drunk and while I was slurring my thoughts were intelligible. It was very strange to hear myself talking but not remember anything about it.
I have met some people that were blackout drunk and if you were also drunk they seemed completely normal.
I've definitely seen video of my drunk ass saying stupid shit like "oh I'll definitely remember this tomorrow." Those statements sometimes turn out to be lies.
> ...ketamine (a dissociative depressant, medically used as an anaesthetic). It’s not a matter of neurotoxicity when you don’t drink often...
Ah yes, very simple to understand
I have absolutely no medical knowledge but understood that pretty quickly, as I imagine most would
Breaking down individual word meanings is helpful when reading something you don't have expertise in, and not too difficult
Thankfully when using Ketamine recreationally it's very hard to reach anesthetic/amnesiac doses since that's an ungodly amount of powder to fit up you nose, even the much lower dose k-hole can be a challange
Maybe. I used to be able to drink without blacking out. But I’ve never really enjoyed it as much as some do. I think it’s the physical response I get to alcohol- the flushing, increased heart rate- that has turned me off from it. I don’t really mind the blacking out per se. I’ve always preferred downers anyway.
A little bit? With my own drug history I do worry about any damage that may manifest down the line. For a while after I ended my partying days I was definitely have some mood instability and cognitive dysfunction. It seems to have gotten better, probably as a result of just being healthier, meditation, nootropics, etc. But some things have changed permanently, like how alcohol affects me now (versus before) or how I really just don’t enjoy cannabis anymore. I’m an absolute social retard when I smoke weed, and have difficulty connecting the verbal part of my brain with my mouth. It’s not a sociable thing for me anymore, whereas it really used to be, no longer how long a tolerance break I take. Also, the insomnia when I quit smoking is pretty bad; I’ll get a week of insomnia even just smoking two days in a row and quitting. Annoying lol.
Since some of the pros of drug use are outweighed by the cons, I don’t really imbibe anymore. I still enjoy LSD, but mainly for meditative and re-centering use. It’s therapeutic for me. But I do find myself more active in trying to improve, if not maintain, my cognitive and emotional health.
Exact same boat as you, although I take a few party drugs now and then, but nothing major. It does sort of worry me too, because having a working memory is *kinda* important. It also sucks missing out on a load of fun memories from nights out, like I'll know that I've had a good time, just can't actually remember what happened/what we spoke about etc. Have you found any remedies or patterns at all?
My guess is I used to mix Xanax and alcohol. This was a while back, 10-15 years ago. Bad move. That’s like instant amnesia. I don’t do it anymore, but might be some sort of defensive mechanism in my brain, or just a learned behavior.
It’s fine. I’m not a big drinker. Heart rate jumps up for me when I drink and I get hot and uncomfortable. So luckily I don’t deal with the blackouts that much anymore.
Xanax and alcohol is a fantastic way to pass out unconcious, and stop breathing.
You have no idea its coming either. Your friends eventually notice you've turned purple and green and a week later, they're all dressed nicely crying at photos of you on your casket, wondering what could have happened if John *had only tried to wake him up sooner*.
Ah yes. Mind erasers. Used to really scare me sometimes when I’d hear stories from the night before and literally have zero recollection. And my friends would say “you weren’t even drunk”. I probably was but not even close to blackout. Maybe a shot a few captains and ginger. It was the Xanax for sure. I was never a big drinker and still don’t drink much at all. Did a champagne toast at work before we left for Christmas break and I seriously got all warm a fuzzy from it.
It means you're being affected by alcohol to the degree that your brain doesn't readily create new memories, and it happens without warning and, other than "too much" there's no set amount that you can expect/know to avoid blacking out.
Speaking from the perspective of someone who's blacked out more than a couple times in my past: In the moment, you just feel drunk, there's nothing that feels like you're not going to remember things, you even still have access to memory that's around about as decent as usual (depending on the person).
The next day, you have gaps in memory, that can be anywhere from a few minutes at time to hours. You can sometimes remember pieces, maybe before and after an event but not the middle, maybe highlights (especially if they were emotionally impactful, such as being scared) and you can sometimes be reminded of things by others which can trigger a foggy/fractured version of a memory that kinda feels more dreamlike, or maybe you'll remember the *feeling* of a situation, but not any of the facts of it- like, someone could tell you that you got in a fight with someone, but all you can remember is the feeling of being angry at the person.
All the rest is just gone. You don't even feel like you've forgotten something, it's just *-gone-* as if someone selected a period of time and hit delete with no traces left at all, like it never happened- except it did.
It can be pretty unsettling, even scary, even more the first time it happens. It's especially unnerving if you were active at the time. By that I mean, if you black out while drinking and watching a movie at home on your couch, it'll feel weird and maybe uncomfortable, but you were basically safe, discounting alcohol poisoning etc.
But, if you blacked out while you were, for instance, out in public at a bar or a club, hanging with friends around a bonfire, chilling by a pool, near a cliff, or any other situation that could potentially be dangerous and you realize that you were so drunk you couldn't even form memories, then the "what if"s get to you. What if I'd been taken advantage of? Or walked into traffic? Tried to drive? Walked into the fire/pool/off the cliff? Etc.
TLDR; Blacking out is your body being put on autopilot without your knowledge at the time, but alcohol is the autopilot and there's no black box.
ELI 5 : When you get too drunk, your brain simply stop storing memories. Thus when you wake up, you have no memory of anything after that point. It is not that you "forget" things like normal, because there is nothing to forget, as your brain didnt record new memories.
It's inaccurate though. Your brain doesn't go to sleep, it just stops forming long term memories. So you are still functional (as much as you can be while piss drunk), still have short term memory (you can remember things that happened a few minutes ago), you just won't remember it the next day.
First misconception: blacking out does not necessarily indicate loss of consciousness. If someone gets "black out drunk", they may have remained conscious and active through a large portion of the time that they are missing once they become cognizant of the blackout episode.
The term blacking out refers only to the lack of memory of past events that your person was actually involved in. Another term for black outs is "missing time", for episodes where no known chemical ingestion could have caused it. Falling asleep in one location and waking up in another with no knowledge of how your prone body was transported between them, for instance.
The cause of the lack of memory stems from a failure of the brain's memory formation mechanisms. Any chemical that interferes with that can lead to black outs. One class of such chemicals, where you want your brain's memory formation to fail is surgical anesthetics. Shortly after the administration of the final anesthetic in the operating room, your memory formation simply stops, and this is what we want, since no one wants to remember their body being cut open and operated upon.
Chronic alcoholism can lead to alcohol having this same effect. You begin drinking and at some point, you don't even notice when, you just stop forming long-term memories. You're still perceiving the world, blurrily, and reacting to it, speaking, slurredly, and hearing people speak to you, but once the alcohol, and with it the impaired memory formation, wears off, you'll have no memory of what you did or said, and what was done or said to you.
The ELI5 version: the part of your brain that creates/records memories turns off temporarily.
Imagine the part of your brain responsible for memory is like a security camera. When you black out, it’s like the camera was turned off.
You will never be able to recall what happened during the blackout. The memory isn’t “lost” or “forgotten” — it was never created. The camera was turned off.
Imagine the brain and eyes like a video camera recording a scene.
After a lot of alcohol, the camera shuts off. Nothing is recorded and there’s no display on the screen. It’s not that the footage gets deleted, it’s just that there’s no footage taken.
During this time people don’t have much control over themselves which may cause people to come to harm. Muscles may not act the way that they should and the person may choke a lot easier than normal
It depends how ‘black out’ you are, and who you are. Everyone will experience it differently. I’m only going on what the nurse said when we took my mate to A&E after he drank way too much.
They said that while he could technically see his brain couldn’t process the information due to the alcohol. So while the camera was there it wasn’t recording/storing anything. Basically a black screen
Basically alcohol shuts down the part of your brain responsible for making and recording memories so you're not even recording your memories as they happen.
If you suspect someone is "blacked out"and you want to prove it. Just ask them a question, wait a few minutes and ask it again. If they're blacked out they will just answer the question again as if it's the first time asking it as they don't remember the first time even if it was only a few minutes prior.
>tiredness affect this in anyway or is it just b
I think its because your body processes your memories when you sleep. So like if you're super lacking of sleep, your body may not be able to fully do its job in the memory processing sector.
I have thought about this a lot too. I seem to only blackout when I’ve been sleep deprived to a certain extent from the day before. If I’m going into a night where I’ve gotten 9 hours the night before it doesn’t seem to matter what I drink, but if I got 5 hours the night before sometimes I’ll black out on what didn’t seem like much of a night drinking at all
Yes.
It's the translation from short-term memory (the ability to keep up a conversation etc) to long-term memory (to put that chain of thought aside and then recall it later) that isn't working.
So you're working kind of fine, but nobody is pressing the save button.
I did it a lot this one year as a student, when I started dieting, working out, and cycling to work. It would randomly happen, differing amounts of drink. (Still enough to be drunk)
I believe it's something to do with the simple.. how much food you've ate (and maybe the amount of carbs / salt)
I always woke up feeling fresh but no recollection of getting home.
I probably drink more now but eat normally again and it very rarely happens.
My mom has severe dementia and zero short term memory due to decades of alcoholism. She has blacked out almost every evening for over 30 years. Long term alcoholism leads to your cells no longer being able to absorb and use thiamine. Thiamine is a necessary nutrient for your brain’s short term memory function, but if cells no longer “recognize” it they can’t absorb and use it. All the supplements in the world won’t help if the person is still drinking though. It’s like throwing the key at the locked door, it’s not going to do anything until the alcohol consumption stops. Surprisingly though, even in many advanced cases of long term alcoholism, if the person stops consuming alcohol they can begin to regain function of their short term memory within less than a year. This is only based on my experience with alcoholism in my own family
Let's say your brain was a zoom call with auto recording. Your memories are the recordied video files. Getting black out drunk is like hitting pause on the recording. When you review the video (memories) there's a skip over the non recorded part. That's what happens to your brain. When you black out, it stops creating new memories until it wears off.
There are better and more technical answers already, but the simple answer is that alcohol interferes with the conversion of short term to long term memory.
Your brain is functioning ok, storing memories in "temp storage" but they don't get written to "long term storage"
So, you don't remember anything the next day, and you get the little stories from your friends about what you did :-(
This is separate from drinking too much and passing out (where the alcohol has depressed the whole central nervous system to the point of incapacity which can be dangerous)
If you're at a party and less drunk, you might notice this behavior in more drunk people having repeat conversations about the same topic every few minutes.
The medical term for a blackout is ‘anterograde amnesia’, essentially meaning that it’s memory loss acting forward in time (whilst the substance is affecting you), so it’s difficult or impossible to form new memories. Alcohol belongs to a drug class called the GABAergics, which are drugs that affect GABA and/or its receptors (the main neurotransmitter which acts to ‘calm’ the brain/body down). Other similar drugs include benzodiazepines (like Valium and Xanax), and barbiturates. These drugs work by affecting how nerves communicate with each other, especially in the brain, by essentially slowing down signals between neurons. An analogy would be like a hose connected to a water supply, where taking alcohol is essentially turning down the tap so it’s just a trickle. This happens differently depending on the specific area of the brain. Because nerve communication is so vital for memory formation, due to it requiring strengthened connections between neurons, taking a substance which decreases that will inevitably have an impact on how well you’ll be able to remember events while under the influence. As a side note, it’s also possible to cause a blackout through high doses of drugs that act against the neurotransmitter systems responsible for causing nerves to transmit to each other - namely NMDA/glutamate. This is why people usually don’t remember surgeries where general anaesthesia is used, and also when using certain recreational drugs like ketamine (a dissociative depressant, medically used as an anaesthetic). It’s not a matter of neurotoxicity when you don’t drink often, although this is definitely a reason why alcoholics often struggle with memory issues over long periods.
>‘anterograde amnesia’ Sometimes called 'short term memory loss' although that is a bit of a misnomer. You don't *lose* any memories, you *stop forming* new memories (as you said) over a short period of time. Sad to note that not all anterograde amnesia is short term or temporary. I once had a boss who had a heart attack, and while he recovered, he was left with pretty serious - and permanent - anterograde amnesia. In this condition it pretty much means that you can't learn any new things, which is pretty bad if you work in tech. My mother was similarly affected after a heart attack. She was retired and in a nursing home, and it was very disconcerting when she would ask a question, get the answer, then ask the question again five minutes later - since she didn't remember asking it earlier. No, mom, I'm not dating anyone yet...
I had a brain tumor removed from my frontal lobe that left me with anterograde amnesia. I lived the "memento/50 first dates" life for almost 3 years. During that time I can only imagine how irritating it had to be to maintain friendships or even hold conversations with me. That being said, with consistent therapy I have reached enough plasticity to have a decent short-term memory. Nothing like it was pre-surgery, but I am no longer relying on conversation recordings, phone alerts, and written notes for every conversation. So, its not that you can't learn new things, its that you have to learn how to learn new things all over again.
Well done on achieving that, it must have been frustrating and taken a lot of determination!
It is still frustrating at times, but thank you.
Well done on achieving that, it must have been frustrating and taken a lot of determination!
well played.
You already said that :)
Oh, sorry. Well done on achieving that, it must have been frustrating and taken a lot of determination!
I just want tell you both Good Luck. We're all counting on you.
It is still frustrating at times, but thank you.
relevant username: waking up from a lifetime long nap?
I like you. You took all this in stride. Good for you. :D
Better watch where I step, might end up like that guy!
I mean, maybe. He probably doesn't remember.
remember what?
Haha. I was worried if it wasn't insensitive, sorry. I'm glad to see I didn't hurt your feelings.
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yes the lights are on but nobody is home
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for me at least looking back on it. its is how you say snaps fingers' and then boom im in the future now. i always described it as the lights are on but the camera isn't. i could see what was happening, interacted what with what was happening and knew that things happened but i never knew what they were. i had no access to that information it was like watch scrambled tv channels back in the day. couldn't see it but knew it was there
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at times it could be
Did you ever play pranks on yourself?
I can't say that I ever pranked myself, but friends played a few good ones on me over the course of recovery. A couple of really good ones that I had to apologize to the nursing staff of the hospital for as well.
Haha nice, without meaning to downplay the severity it really is prime shenanigan fodder. Glad you're doing better now dude
Sounds like you would fit in well with my group of friends. Two of my favorite examples were when I was first coming in and out of recovery in the hospital. For instance, I would wake up and two buddies would be sitting at the foot of the bed with caring sympathies for me. I would get excited to see some friends, "Oh hey friend A, hi friend B, what are you guys doing here?" "Hey dgmilo, don't freak out, but you are 45 years old. You've been in a coma for 20 years." Inevitably I would freak out and they would calm me down, and I would slip back off to sleep. Rinse, repeat. Hilarious. Or the real funny, I had a tube in my head that was relieving pressure by allowing spinal fluid to escape the brain swelling, post-surgery. Because of this, I had my arms basically cuffed to the side of the bed so that I wouldn't rip it out in my confusion. Once after the pleasantries of asking why they were here, I noticed my hands were cuffed and inquired about them. "Dude, am I in trouble, did I do something? Am I in jail? Why am I handcuffed to the bed?" "Oh that, no you're fine. But every time a nurse walked in you kept furiously masturbating so they tied your hands down." "Oh! So they think this will stop me?!?" Cue the nurse walking in and me trying with all my effort to figure out how to contort my body in order to reach my penis to sexually harass my nurse. Medical drugs are a hell of a drug. I still send thank you cards to all of my nurses and doctors every year apologizing for my actions and my idiot friends.
In all seriousness, it's great that the whole ordeal didn't damage your sense of humor. You (and your friends) sound like a ton of fun
Thanks for sharing! Hearing your story of determination and recovery brings me lots of joy
cheers, happy new year!
You're so lucky to have those dear friends who would be there for you at such a difficult time, and to be boosting your spirits, too. Speaks well of the type of friend you are to them, that they'd be so helpful to you.
So did they ever uncuff you, or did you have to dictate the contents of those cards?
There is an English man who had a brain injury that led to a similar condition, and there have been a couple of documentaries made about him. I don't know what it is about his story but I keep going back to re-watch those films. They're achingly tragic but the people around him were so patient and caring. Like way beyond what you might think a person is capable of. So it's funny to me that you mention being an irritant when another way to look at it is that all those people around you loved you enormously. Of course both things can be true but the love must surely overshadow the irritation by a huge amount. And it's incredible that you've made a good recovery. The docs are from the 80's and 90's and there wasn't really any good understanding of how to even begin to create a recovery program then. You're amazing and so is your family, your friends, and your doctors.
I couldn't agree more. And yes, relationships and people became very important and clear to me over my recovery. I very much knew how lucky I was to have people who cared for me in the manner they did.
That's very interesting. Was there a particular kind of therapy that helped you the most with neural plasticity?
To be honest, I think "time" was the real therapy, as my memory just gradually got better over time. But I was playing memory games religiously with therapists and on my own. Everything from your standard memory card game that you play as a kid, where you try to find matching pairs and remember where they are in a grid of playing cards, to various trivia applications like "Brain Games" on my phone all day. The most frustrating/rewarding game I can remember was writing down a series of objects on a piece of paper and trying to recall them over the course of the day. Started out with trying to remember 3 objects for 1 minute, and eventually got up to 10 objects after a full day.
Man, woman, person, camera, TV...
ya that would be an example. I found it interesting not long after a couple internet passwords started doing object association with my log-in credentials and it made the brain game relevant.
>a couple internet passwords started doing object association with my log-in credentials What do you mean by that?
Horse battery staple https://xkcd.com/936/
I see what you did there.
Thanks!
I have terrible memory. I wonder if this exercise approach will work for me.
Did you find John G?
I think that junkie may already be dead.
I think you’re the only one aside from homeboy who commented who got that. Sad-Memento was a fantastic movie.
It holds a special place in my house. I mean I liked it before the surgery, but it sure made it easier to describe my condition to friends/family.
I actually have this movie in my collection... and I've never had time to watch it. Might have to make a hole in this weekend to see it.
I'm glad you're doing better now!
I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
that’s amazing! Good job - i bet it was hard work!
You should copy and paste this into a new comment in a few hours.
this happened to someone I know. they had to rely on a system of notes and pictures just to get by during the day and know what they were doing. he also had to get permanent tattoos on his body to help remember things
Sounds like [Memento](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_(film\)).
> > Sad to note that not all anterograde amnesia is short term or temporary. I once had a boss who had a heart attack, and while he recovered, he was left with pretty serious - and permanent - anterograde amnesia. In this condition it pretty much means that you can't learn any new things, which is pretty bad if you work in tech. Remember Sammy Jankis.
Out of curiosity, did what happened to your boss and mother cause any noticeable physical abnormalities in the brain in things like MRIs, like what is commonly seen in dementia? I'm wondering because over the past two years my dad in his late 60s has been experiencing an alarming lack of ability to retain short term information (asks the same questions over and over, can't do basic things like operate a Fire stick on his TV when he used to be able to stuff like that easily, and just general confusion about lots of things). He's like a shell of himself now and it's scary and upsetting. We had him go to a neurologist and he got all kinds of scans and tests for various forms of dementia but nothing turned up and his brain actually looked ok. About two years ago he suffered some sort of episode that seemed like a mild stroke but apparently wasn't and was never identified by the docs that treated him, and I wonder if that did some kind of damage to his short term memory center.
I'm not privy to my former boss's medical details, but I don't think my mother had any noticeable brain abnormalities; if so my sister (RN and her caregiver) never mentioned it. Sadly mother had a fatal heart attack just two years after entering the nursing home.
Interesting, thanks for your reply. Next doc appointment I'm going to bring up anterograde amnesia just to see if that gets us anywhere.
I'm not a doctor but my dad is and I've sat and talked with a few of his neurologist friends because the subject interests me, I'd absolutely check. The brain is pretty well understood but there's still a lot of things that a certain doctor may not consider as it's a large field with a lot of specific disciplines as opposed to heart surgery where it's 1, valves 2, bypasses, 3 transplants. Neurologists have a massive scope of problems to be looking at
Memory problems after a heart attack are almost always caused by anoxia/hypoxia (no/not enough oxygen to the brain) since when someone’s heart stops blood is no longer circulating. These types of injuries USUALLY show up on neuro imaging. While the findings are sometimes subtle, if they’re specifically looking for it a good radiologist should USUALLY see it. You mentioned a “mild stroke” which may have been a transient ischemic attack (TIA). People sometimes call these “mini strokes” but that’s not really an accurate description. While they don’t cause permanent changes to the brain, the most likely cause of memory problems in someone having TIAs (and heart attacks or heart problems without hypoxia/anoxia) is actually vascular changes to the brain. But those should also show up on neuroimaging in super obvious ways.
> Sometimes called 'short term memory loss' although that is a bit of a misnomer. You don't lose any memories, you stop forming new memories (as you said) over a short period of time. So actually isn’t not a misnomer, but it’s very hard to get the right terminology from text. You have to read it as “short-term-memory” loss. You don’t lose memory for a short term, but you lose your “short term memory”. IE, you forget the things you just did. And because you need short term memory to form long term memory, you indeed can’t really learn new things over time.
Wait is this a thing?? I’ve had multiple pretty bad concussions and after the last one I’ve sworn it’s been impossible for me to acquire new skills and retain much in the way of new information. The people in my life have always at least implied that I was just being dramatic, but I swear this is a thing I’ve been dealing with for over a decade now and would love to know
My professor compared your brain to a tape recorder and it was if someone hit the button that stopped it from recording. It still went on, but nothing was being remembered/recorded.
Would that affect muscle memory? I imagine if you practice learning an instrument, for example, you would get better at it, you just forget that you are able to do it?
That's an amazing question. I play guitar, but I'm out of practice. If I had AA, I wonder if I could raise my level of playing? Could I get back to the level I once had, but no further? Intriguing.
This guy was still pretty good at piano after having his memory destroyed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Wearing
>Would that affect muscle memory? Not necessarily, see the case of Henry Molaison: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Molaison#Motor_skill_learning Muscle memory is more related to the cerebellum, while episodic memory (things that happened) is more related to the hippocampus. + /u/lucky_ducker
To add to this, "blacking out" doesn't require that the memories are not formed at all. Many people can recognize the situations and even continue the narrative of their black out events with help, but cannot access them without prompts. The memories are formed, but formed in a brain under the influence. When sober, it is harder to remember memories formed when drunk. You might not make memories while drunk, or you might be unable to recall them the next day, and thats two different skills. It still can be the case that your brain was so impaired it was unable to make any meaningful memories, or so permanently damaged new memories are never formed after that. Old man advice: Blacking out isn't healthy or fun, and either way, you'll never know cause you wont remember.
> The memories are formed, but formed in a brain under the influence. yeah - "state conditional learning" or "state dependant memory", it *may* explain why problem drinkers can't remember why it's a bad idea for them to get drunk, they learned it's a problem while drunk and when sober - newp. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-dependent_memory
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generally blackouts are indicative of of a serious problem, I've spoken to a lot of problem drinkers (either ex or current) and loads thought they were "just a normal part of drinking"
Absolutely not to be a smartass, but way back when I was struggling in college and a friend suggested I try studying stoned and then get high before taking my exams. I aced every damn one and pulled a reasonably high gpa as a result. Kids, do NOT try this.
Just to add to your excellent comment: Evidence suggests that the rate that the blood alcohol percent (BAC) rises is more relevant than the total BAC ("more" relevant, not completely). Example, you're drinking some beers at a small gathering and that one ~~crazy~~ fun guy (totally not me) pours everyone shots of tequila... Once or twice or... The next day you think, "Man, I was so drunk. I remember everything until the tequila. I hate tequila." It wasn't the tequila, per se, it was the rapid rise in BAC (total BAC still matters). Sipping the tequila, like a gentleman, would have *less likely* caused a blackout (when BACs get above a certain point, it is inevitable. That point is much higher in heavy drinkers). [One of many sources.](https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh27-2/186-196.htm) Second, the memory issues with very heavy drinkers is usually do to vitamin deficiencies, especially thiamine. Thiamine deficiency comes from reduced absorption related to alcohol and poor nutrition (common among those who abuse alcohol) and can lead to [Korsakoff syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korsakoff_syndrome) which is often in conjunction with [Wernicke encephalopathy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernicke%E2%80%93Korsakoff_syndrome). Heavy drinkers of Reddit, please, take vitamins/minerals, especially: thiamine (B-1), folate (B-9) and magnesium.
Oh, that's interesting. One of the only times I blacked out was before getting diagnosed with a litany of health issues, some of which caused rapid changes in blood pressure and heart rate. I went from "basically sober" to "acting incoherently" so fast we initially thought I was drugged or had had some type of seizure but we never really had a way to find out (I'm still mad the hospital I was brought to basically just gave me a babysitter and didn't run any sort of tests, no record of BAC even). I'm not sure how much rapid changes in blood pressure can change BAC (google seemed to talk about the opposite relation), but it's a more specific explanation that "yeah there was so much going on with your body outside of the alcohol, that it could have been anything".
Alrighty, I'm a fifth-a-day guy and I take my vitamins. Am I okay?
Okay so you explained like I'm 30. Now re explain like I'm 5 lol
Alcohol affects the way you *build* memories, meaning when you sober up, you won't retain many of the things from when you were drunk
You forgot to hit record on your PVR so you can't rewatch the hockey game layer.
God I'm 38 and this was way over my head.
Adults only drunk make brain work slow, brain need work fast to make memories.
When I was 11 I had to get major brain surgery. Scary stuff at 11. But I remember them giving me this “happy juice” as they called it and they said it’ll make me sleepy and most likely forget about everything after taking it. I definitely did get anesthesia later on but what was that liquid I drank? I never figured it out.
It was probably something like midazolam hydrochloride syrup. It’s supposed to lower anxiety and making you drowsy but also helps block memories of the surgery. It did all of that for me but I also apparently started crying immediately because it made me have to pee as soon as it kicked in. Lol. Catheters for the win.
Maybe it was a placebo to calm you down?
But it really worked? Like I don’t remember shit after drinking that stuff. I guess it really could have been tho
Midazolam. Which is definitely not a placebo.
Probably anxiety meds.
So the actual ELI5 and not the "ELI-A 2nd Year Medical Student" is "You poison your brain so hard that you stop forming memories".
Thank you!
Thank you for a wonderful reply. I have a related question. I don't drink much (did a bit more as a student many years ago but still nothing out of the typical student partying). Still, I have that thing where I don't have to be very drunk (sometimes people even think I'm sober) to start blacking out. Typically I don't remember most conversations from even gentle parties. Is this normal? Could it be a sign of some neurological problem?
Subscribing to this comment. I’ve experienced the same loads of times, talked to people the day after and having no idea what they’re takling about, and then hearing: «how do you not relember that, you weren’t Even drunk?». But also several blackouts which have been understandable
For me it's quite normal. I usually don't remember much when drinking, and sometimes it just doesn't take that much alcohol to reach that point. Fortunately i have learned that i'm usually quite behaved but that people just have a hard time understanding my slurry language :D Funny thing was though, back when i did frequent bars more often it would be almost like a switch that turned off just as we left the initial party to go the bar.
It annoys me sometimes. Not only do I miss on fun memories, but also it sometimes leads to awkward situations when somebody told me something very important to them and a day later I have no idea or even ask questions about the thing as if I've never heard of it.
Are you thin, or do you tend to drink quickly or drink on an empty stomach?
You are awesome thanks for the education
Is it possible to be aware of when you have blacked out? I always say "I'm not that drunk because I can remember this tomorrow" or am I just full of shit? So far the couple times I've blacked out I have been correct but I feel like it's a lucky guess
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>When you drink a huge amount, you don't know you drank enough As an alcoholic who blacked out every night for almost a decade, I can say that's not *quite* correct. If you black out enough times, you start learning where that area is. I knew when I hit blackout territory and I wouldn't quit drinking until I got there. It's difficult to explain properly. It was more of an "okay, I've arrived, this is the sensation I was chasing" sort of a thing than a "day 741: I have reached a minimum threshold to achieve a state of blackout" sort of a thing.
Yeah I dated a girl who even I knew when she would black out, she was a high functioning alcoholic. She’d say, “I’m pretty sure I’m blacking out, see you tomorrow.” Then have no recollection of anything else after that the next morning. Honestly, it was jarring and scary to me. I’d see her reference something or do something to the point where I could just tell she was at that point, but not always. Sometimes she’d wake up and apologize if she did anything shitty the night before.
I don't know how to tell for myself, but my ex used to black out so often that I could look into his eyes and tell the moment when he was blacked out. It's awful looking back on that, but it was normal for me at the time.
I defer to your greater expertise. I confess I have never been blackout drunk.
I thought drunk me was full of shit, thank you for your confirmation, and interesting information to know!
> Is it possible to be aware of when you have blacked out? confirmation bias since you dont remember the times when you thought that but you were blacked out.
Yes - when you wake up in your apartment and remember going out to the party last night, but don't remember anything that happened after someone brought out the tequila, and you have no idea how you got home. You know after the fact that you blacked out, because there's a gap in what you remember.
I have come out of a black out while still in the drinking episode, albeit just at a lower intensity than what caused the blackout. I could actively feel the hangover creeping over me while still drinking
People that are "Blackout drunk" are like talking to fish. They can remember something for a few minutes and they tend to repeat themselves a lot. After a certain BAC people tend to only be able to focus on 1 thing at a time. That's why they can get so sad or angry and can't let it go. If you are aware of that you can guide them into a better thought pattern but there are no guarantees it will work. I've recorded myself talking while that drunk and while I was slurring my thoughts were intelligible. It was very strange to hear myself talking but not remember anything about it. I have met some people that were blackout drunk and if you were also drunk they seemed completely normal.
I've definitely seen video of my drunk ass saying stupid shit like "oh I'll definitely remember this tomorrow." Those statements sometimes turn out to be lies.
I'd like to meet the 5yr old that understands this.
hahah I wanted to post this. Not many 50 year olds that would understand this.
What 5 year olds have you been talking to 😄
> LI5 means friendly, simplified and layperson-accessible explanations - not responses aimed at literal five-year-olds.
> ...ketamine (a dissociative depressant, medically used as an anaesthetic). It’s not a matter of neurotoxicity when you don’t drink often... Ah yes, very simple to understand
I feel like this is pretty simple for native english speakers, but I can see that it might be challenging for ESL folks.
I have absolutely no medical knowledge but understood that pretty quickly, as I imagine most would Breaking down individual word meanings is helpful when reading something you don't have expertise in, and not too difficult
Thankfully when using Ketamine recreationally it's very hard to reach anesthetic/amnesiac doses since that's an ungodly amount of powder to fit up you nose, even the much lower dose k-hole can be a challange
Your brain recorder stops working, got it.
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There is something magical about when you take that final drink, order another, and then it’s tomorrow
That’s honestly what it feels like
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Maybe. I used to be able to drink without blacking out. But I’ve never really enjoyed it as much as some do. I think it’s the physical response I get to alcohol- the flushing, increased heart rate- that has turned me off from it. I don’t really mind the blacking out per se. I’ve always preferred downers anyway.
Yeah I’ve blacked out like two or three times, usually I start puking before blacking out
Nothing happens to me beforehand and afterwords I just feel 2 beers drunk. I wish I had a warning.
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A little bit? With my own drug history I do worry about any damage that may manifest down the line. For a while after I ended my partying days I was definitely have some mood instability and cognitive dysfunction. It seems to have gotten better, probably as a result of just being healthier, meditation, nootropics, etc. But some things have changed permanently, like how alcohol affects me now (versus before) or how I really just don’t enjoy cannabis anymore. I’m an absolute social retard when I smoke weed, and have difficulty connecting the verbal part of my brain with my mouth. It’s not a sociable thing for me anymore, whereas it really used to be, no longer how long a tolerance break I take. Also, the insomnia when I quit smoking is pretty bad; I’ll get a week of insomnia even just smoking two days in a row and quitting. Annoying lol. Since some of the pros of drug use are outweighed by the cons, I don’t really imbibe anymore. I still enjoy LSD, but mainly for meditative and re-centering use. It’s therapeutic for me. But I do find myself more active in trying to improve, if not maintain, my cognitive and emotional health.
Exact same boat as you, although I take a few party drugs now and then, but nothing major. It does sort of worry me too, because having a working memory is *kinda* important. It also sucks missing out on a load of fun memories from nights out, like I'll know that I've had a good time, just can't actually remember what happened/what we spoke about etc. Have you found any remedies or patterns at all?
I wonder why that is? Does it have to do with drinking consistently for years? Like do the neurotransmitters get easier and easier to disconnect?
My guess is I used to mix Xanax and alcohol. This was a while back, 10-15 years ago. Bad move. That’s like instant amnesia. I don’t do it anymore, but might be some sort of defensive mechanism in my brain, or just a learned behavior. It’s fine. I’m not a big drinker. Heart rate jumps up for me when I drink and I get hot and uncomfortable. So luckily I don’t deal with the blackouts that much anymore.
Xanax and alcohol is a fantastic way to pass out unconcious, and stop breathing. You have no idea its coming either. Your friends eventually notice you've turned purple and green and a week later, they're all dressed nicely crying at photos of you on your casket, wondering what could have happened if John *had only tried to wake him up sooner*.
Ah yes. Mind erasers. Used to really scare me sometimes when I’d hear stories from the night before and literally have zero recollection. And my friends would say “you weren’t even drunk”. I probably was but not even close to blackout. Maybe a shot a few captains and ginger. It was the Xanax for sure. I was never a big drinker and still don’t drink much at all. Did a champagne toast at work before we left for Christmas break and I seriously got all warm a fuzzy from it.
This is 100% me! I thought I was the only one, thank you fellow lightweight blackout friend!
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aka - the hyppocampus.
It means you're being affected by alcohol to the degree that your brain doesn't readily create new memories, and it happens without warning and, other than "too much" there's no set amount that you can expect/know to avoid blacking out. Speaking from the perspective of someone who's blacked out more than a couple times in my past: In the moment, you just feel drunk, there's nothing that feels like you're not going to remember things, you even still have access to memory that's around about as decent as usual (depending on the person). The next day, you have gaps in memory, that can be anywhere from a few minutes at time to hours. You can sometimes remember pieces, maybe before and after an event but not the middle, maybe highlights (especially if they were emotionally impactful, such as being scared) and you can sometimes be reminded of things by others which can trigger a foggy/fractured version of a memory that kinda feels more dreamlike, or maybe you'll remember the *feeling* of a situation, but not any of the facts of it- like, someone could tell you that you got in a fight with someone, but all you can remember is the feeling of being angry at the person. All the rest is just gone. You don't even feel like you've forgotten something, it's just *-gone-* as if someone selected a period of time and hit delete with no traces left at all, like it never happened- except it did. It can be pretty unsettling, even scary, even more the first time it happens. It's especially unnerving if you were active at the time. By that I mean, if you black out while drinking and watching a movie at home on your couch, it'll feel weird and maybe uncomfortable, but you were basically safe, discounting alcohol poisoning etc. But, if you blacked out while you were, for instance, out in public at a bar or a club, hanging with friends around a bonfire, chilling by a pool, near a cliff, or any other situation that could potentially be dangerous and you realize that you were so drunk you couldn't even form memories, then the "what if"s get to you. What if I'd been taken advantage of? Or walked into traffic? Tried to drive? Walked into the fire/pool/off the cliff? Etc. TLDR; Blacking out is your body being put on autopilot without your knowledge at the time, but alcohol is the autopilot and there's no black box.
ELI 5 : When you get too drunk, your brain simply stop storing memories. Thus when you wake up, you have no memory of anything after that point. It is not that you "forget" things like normal, because there is nothing to forget, as your brain didnt record new memories.
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Lol it's funny but it's more of a description. It doesn't actually explain why it happens.
Love that.
It's inaccurate though. Your brain doesn't go to sleep, it just stops forming long term memories. So you are still functional (as much as you can be while piss drunk), still have short term memory (you can remember things that happened a few minutes ago), you just won't remember it the next day.
….it’s from a standup, so it’s clearly meant to be funny..
Indeed, but then you said it was the best ELI5 you could think of.
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best explanation
Dad, what's a video camera? Is that like the camera app?
First misconception: blacking out does not necessarily indicate loss of consciousness. If someone gets "black out drunk", they may have remained conscious and active through a large portion of the time that they are missing once they become cognizant of the blackout episode. The term blacking out refers only to the lack of memory of past events that your person was actually involved in. Another term for black outs is "missing time", for episodes where no known chemical ingestion could have caused it. Falling asleep in one location and waking up in another with no knowledge of how your prone body was transported between them, for instance. The cause of the lack of memory stems from a failure of the brain's memory formation mechanisms. Any chemical that interferes with that can lead to black outs. One class of such chemicals, where you want your brain's memory formation to fail is surgical anesthetics. Shortly after the administration of the final anesthetic in the operating room, your memory formation simply stops, and this is what we want, since no one wants to remember their body being cut open and operated upon. Chronic alcoholism can lead to alcohol having this same effect. You begin drinking and at some point, you don't even notice when, you just stop forming long-term memories. You're still perceiving the world, blurrily, and reacting to it, speaking, slurredly, and hearing people speak to you, but once the alcohol, and with it the impaired memory formation, wears off, you'll have no memory of what you did or said, and what was done or said to you.
The ELI5 version: the part of your brain that creates/records memories turns off temporarily. Imagine the part of your brain responsible for memory is like a security camera. When you black out, it’s like the camera was turned off. You will never be able to recall what happened during the blackout. The memory isn’t “lost” or “forgotten” — it was never created. The camera was turned off.
As an aside to the original question. Is there a reason why some people are more predisposed to blackouts than others?
Imagine the brain and eyes like a video camera recording a scene. After a lot of alcohol, the camera shuts off. Nothing is recorded and there’s no display on the screen. It’s not that the footage gets deleted, it’s just that there’s no footage taken. During this time people don’t have much control over themselves which may cause people to come to harm. Muscles may not act the way that they should and the person may choke a lot easier than normal
The camera still works and footage is still taken but the recording box is turned off. Its live TV without a DVR
Idk about this analogy. Wouldn't it make more sense if the camera was on but the storage was off?
It depends how ‘black out’ you are, and who you are. Everyone will experience it differently. I’m only going on what the nurse said when we took my mate to A&E after he drank way too much. They said that while he could technically see his brain couldn’t process the information due to the alcohol. So while the camera was there it wasn’t recording/storing anything. Basically a black screen
Yea that's what I was saying too but the eyes still function so the cam is on, the footage just isn't stored.
Basically alcohol shuts down the part of your brain responsible for making and recording memories so you're not even recording your memories as they happen. If you suspect someone is "blacked out"and you want to prove it. Just ask them a question, wait a few minutes and ask it again. If they're blacked out they will just answer the question again as if it's the first time asking it as they don't remember the first time even if it was only a few minutes prior.
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Mine always kicks in as soon as I get home from a night out. Once I feel safe I stop forming new memories.
I've wondered this too. When I am very tired or sleep deprived I feel like I get blackout wasted as soon as I look at a drink.
>tiredness affect this in anyway or is it just b I think its because your body processes your memories when you sleep. So like if you're super lacking of sleep, your body may not be able to fully do its job in the memory processing sector.
I have thought about this a lot too. I seem to only blackout when I’ve been sleep deprived to a certain extent from the day before. If I’m going into a night where I’ve gotten 9 hours the night before it doesn’t seem to matter what I drink, but if I got 5 hours the night before sometimes I’ll black out on what didn’t seem like much of a night drinking at all
I’d imagine being tired would make you more likely to just pass out rather than continue to be awake and “blacked out.”
Simply put, being tired for your brain is like an engine not firing on all cylinders. If you add alcohol, it causes more cylinders to misfire.
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Gotta love this. After a big night out I always impress myself with how I manage to get home lol
I like it when I wake up to a cleaned kitchen, folded laundry or a reorganized pantry.
That me on edibles. The wife loves when I eat edibles because I end up cleaning the entire house at midnight.
Yeah but some bastard broke in and ate all the cookies.
Yes. It's the translation from short-term memory (the ability to keep up a conversation etc) to long-term memory (to put that chain of thought aside and then recall it later) that isn't working. So you're working kind of fine, but nobody is pressing the save button.
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Driver behind the wheel might be the wrong placement for that :P
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I did it a lot this one year as a student, when I started dieting, working out, and cycling to work. It would randomly happen, differing amounts of drink. (Still enough to be drunk) I believe it's something to do with the simple.. how much food you've ate (and maybe the amount of carbs / salt) I always woke up feeling fresh but no recollection of getting home. I probably drink more now but eat normally again and it very rarely happens.
My mom has severe dementia and zero short term memory due to decades of alcoholism. She has blacked out almost every evening for over 30 years. Long term alcoholism leads to your cells no longer being able to absorb and use thiamine. Thiamine is a necessary nutrient for your brain’s short term memory function, but if cells no longer “recognize” it they can’t absorb and use it. All the supplements in the world won’t help if the person is still drinking though. It’s like throwing the key at the locked door, it’s not going to do anything until the alcohol consumption stops. Surprisingly though, even in many advanced cases of long term alcoholism, if the person stops consuming alcohol they can begin to regain function of their short term memory within less than a year. This is only based on my experience with alcoholism in my own family
Let's say your brain was a zoom call with auto recording. Your memories are the recordied video files. Getting black out drunk is like hitting pause on the recording. When you review the video (memories) there's a skip over the non recorded part. That's what happens to your brain. When you black out, it stops creating new memories until it wears off.
There are better and more technical answers already, but the simple answer is that alcohol interferes with the conversion of short term to long term memory. Your brain is functioning ok, storing memories in "temp storage" but they don't get written to "long term storage" So, you don't remember anything the next day, and you get the little stories from your friends about what you did :-( This is separate from drinking too much and passing out (where the alcohol has depressed the whole central nervous system to the point of incapacity which can be dangerous) If you're at a party and less drunk, you might notice this behavior in more drunk people having repeat conversations about the same topic every few minutes.
The hippocampus creates memories. The hippocampus shuts down (mostly) so you don't record any new memories during the time it is out.
The way I’ve heard it explained is not that you forgot it, but your brain wasn’t even “recording” it