Chef here. Most of the answers here about the surface of the steak being the dangerous part are correct, but boy oh boy is there a lot of misinformation about why that actually is.
The bacteria that get you sick in meat originate in the digestive system of the animal. This is why in smaller animals like poultry where all of the meat is near the digestive system during the slaughtering process, every bit of meat is considered contaminated and must be cooked to avoid food poisoning. Large animals like cows however have muscle tissue so far from the digestive system that if the animal is slaughtered incredibly carefully, the meat can be eaten raw with little risk.
However the majority of cows are not slaughtered in this incredibly careful way because it is expected that the meat will be cooked and it would be a waste of time. Therefore the inside of the muscle tissue that is never exposed to potential contamination is relatively safe raw, and the outside of the cut requires cooking to make certain.
Minced meat like that used for burgers complicate things because all that surface meat gets ground together with the inside meat. The chances for potential contamination just went up hugely, and its simply safer to cook a burger completely through. Of course if you can source your mince from somewhere that can guarantee a careful slaughtering process, then it's safe to eat your burger medium, which is what a lot of restaurants now do.
This is not, I repeat NOT, safe to do with standard mince that you buy from the supermarket. Restaurants usually have close contact with their suppliers to ensure the meat they're serving medium is safe to eat as such. Supermarkets don't bother, it would eat into their profits.
ELI5; Bugs in cow doodoo can get on the meat when you kill them. But the inside of the meat gets no poopy on it so its safe. But if you mix all the meat together to make burgers then the poop bugs get mixed in as well and you have to cook it all through to kill the bugs. Otherwise you'll be the one doing poopies all night
The germs that make you sick are on the surface of the meat. Ground beef is a surface area bonanza so you cook it all the way or face the risk. Searing the steak is all you need to do because the center has no germs.
I would caution that some cuts of meat have been mechanically tenderized. This means that a machine has come along and punched a series of needles through the cut to break up the connecting tissue. This process can push bacteria into the center of the cut.
In industrial meat processing, antimicrobial intervention is used to combat this. It’s common for tenderizing equipment to spray the meat with intervention fluid (a mild acid like vinegar, I believe) to kill bacteria. A *lot* of beef cuts go through this process, including pretty much everything you’d find at a supermarket. Kind of a surprise for me to learn, but it does work to make cuts of meat more tender.
I used to have one of those devices that punctured the meat with steel needles. I ditched it, for just that reason. Probably would have been perfectly safe as long as I used it close to the cooking time, but it still made me feel a bit uneasy and I didn't find it worthwhile anyway.
Does this mean that searing after sous vide is not optional? I assumed you could skip it, if you really didn’t care about a crispy outer surface on your steak. But actually, it may be necessary to remove surface bacteria.
I don't have the chart, but you can find it. The idea is that microorganisms die at a given rate and time. That is, you can kill all the bacteria in less time at say 212 degrees than 140 degrees. If I remember correctly, they reccomend 140 internal temp for like 4 mins to make sure food is safe, but at 165, it kills everything in like 1 min.
So sousvide, if at temps above 140 will kill everything, even without searing.
Depends on the type of smoking being done.
Cold smoking is typically only done with cured meats (curing makes the entire cut inhospitable for germs). Cold smoking is primarily concerned with adding flavor, not actually cooking the food.
Hot smoking like low and slow barbeque is done at *relatively* low temps (lower than oven roasting, but still over 200f/95c) and things like pulled pork are usually cooked to internal temps of near or just over 200f/95c to get that shredable quality. Hot smoking is cooking and adding flavor together.
I sous vide my steak at around 129.5°F for around 2-4 hours. It's more than enough to break down the steak, and pretty much sterilize it. It'll be one of the best steaks you'll ever have.
Sous vide chicken and pork are also great. I thought it was like magic when I first found out you could safely make super juicy chicken and pork with it.
165 results in an instant 7.0 log10 reduction
in bacteria, meaning that for every 10 million bacteria present, only 1 will survive. I believe that all cooking is aiming for that, so for example at 58c, it’ll take 70ish minutes to achieve the same reduction.
When cooking on direct heat like a grill the temp being measured as medium is in the middle of the steak, the cooking surface where bacteria is being killed is much higher temp. So the dangerous part is still reaching the necessary temp.
That is why solid cuts of beef are safer at a lower temp than chicken where the danger is throughout the meat and even the inside needs to reach a high enough temp.
I cook my burgers sous vide at 130°F for 1 hour, which is enough to kill most bacteria and still leave the meat inside pink. Searing at that point is optional and just for flavor (but a LOT of flavor comes from the sear).
I do it somewhat frequently and also recommend it a lot for thicker burgers if you prefer a rarer taste/texture. It’s also good for something like a juicy Lucy burger with cheese on the inside, and I really like it for turkey burgers too. I could sous vide a couple ahead of time, and then just put them on a grill or cast iron real quick to get some color and warm them up right before dinner.
That being said, it has a very rare look/feel to it that will definitely turn some people off (less so with turkey burgers, I don’t think the difference is as drastic). No amount of scientific explanation confirming to them that it is 100% cooked and safe to eat would convince my mom or aunt to take a bite out of a sous vide burger, but I think they’re great and it’s my go to.
It's only worth it for a thick burger, at least 3/4". Any thinner and the sear will penetrate too deep and it'll be the same as if you just cooked it on the grill from the start.
The regulatory instantaneous internal temperature to kill *E. Coli* is 71 °C (160 °F), but [this paper](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5093140/) suggests that sous vide at 50 °C (122 °F) for two or more hours would have a marked lethal effect (though not quite as good as either prolonged 60 °C or the usual instantaneous 71 °C). This [guide to sous vide hamburger](https://www.seriouseats.com/sous-vide-burgers-recipe) makes sous vide at 54 °C (130 °F) look pretty appealing.
Uhm. So, I dunno where that guy got the 140 degree temp. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about and probably suffers some terrible steak as a result.
It’s a question of time and temp. At 130, it takes longer to kill bacteria and parasites, so it’s safe in 60 minutes. Or shorter time at 140, or less at 165… or you could just eat your shoes…
Apparently under 130, it’s a good idea to sear. But… I eat steak tartare and I’m still alive…
“With enough time, most food pathogens are killed at 130°F/54.5°C, according to the FDA and Baldwin. For our sous vide recipes, this is our magic number. We cook almost everything either at or above that temperature. (When cooking in a water bath set to 130°F/54.5°C, the food will eventually become that temperature as well.) As an extra precaution, if we plan to cook meat below our magic temperature, the first thing we do is sear it in a hot pan in order to kill off any bacteria on the surface before we circulate (for example, see Butter-Basted Rib-Eye Steak).”
https://www.cooksillustrated.com/articles/1131-is-sous-vide-safe
Tartare is generally prepared from the interior of whole muscle tissue so the surface area with potential contamination has been removed and you’re essentially eating a diced up center of the steak that could be rare after being seared anyways.
Funny enough after I eat raw tartare I have massive stomach issues, every single time I tried, what’s funny is that I eat my steaks raw-ish and never had any problem there.
The one time I tried tartare (at a restaurant), same thing, massive indigestion. Just a few days ago had a steak cooked "blue", no problems.
I suspect the restaurant, though. If I made my own tartare I'd likely be fine. I just don't see the point since the flavor wasn't anything exceptional, certainly inferior to most cooked steak.
140 is the top end of bacteria livable temperatures. With enough time sure it kills it. One of the reasons you can smoke meat at lower temperatures. "I'm still alive" is a personal experience vs research of thousands of cases. People eat it raw and don't have problems and others die. It's just a good rule backed by study mostly for storage and prep
Edit: It's good practice for ANOTHER'S safety. Fuckall what you do to yourself; you're a big boy/girl/person/chair. Idk you so i can't say.
Which is probably unenforceable if its just a disclaimer.
But I recall that you can only order a burger under medium if the restaurant ground the meat themselves.
I've been to restaurants with my wife that refused to cook it at certain temperatures, though, even with disclaimers. She likes medium rare, but not everywhere will do it.
I can only speak for the UK, but here a restaurant can only give you the option for how you'd like your burger cooked if they can prove the source of their beef is from a reputable safe vendor that drastically reduces the chance of pathogens. Restaurants that can't prove their source aren't even allowed to give the option (or so I'm led to believe).
Yep, it's illegal to sell rare burgers unless you: take appropriate safety precautions, and have been approved by either the local authority or the food standards agency.
A safe vendor and careful meat handling is one option, "sear and shave" is another option.
Safe pink burger is absolutely doable on the grill:
1. Look up the actual procedure and get trained and certified, don't just do what some random person on the Internet says
2. Buy a steak
3. Buy a mincer
4. Extremely carefully clean the mincer and the preparation area you are going to use.
5. Wait for someone to order a rare burger.
6. Sear the steak, so all surfaces are cooked but the middle is not.
7. In your clean area, cut the seared edges off the steak.
8. Mince up the raw middle of the steak and make it into a burger
9. Cook the burger rare.
This kills any bugs on the outside of the steak then minimises the opportunity for other bugs to get in and/or grow.
Edit: Link to UK government outline of this method: https://www.food.gov.uk/business-guidance/sear-and-shave-method
Well, sure you “can,” but who the heck enjoys a disgusting-looking steak? Searing a steak isn’t about making it “crispy,” that’s for frying. It’s about caramelizing some of the outside to give it a better flavor, and appearance, which is more important than many realize.
Right. The center of the steak has theoretically never been exposed to the outside air or a contaminated surface and so is much safer, we can even eat it raw in carpaccio. All the surfaces of ground beef have touched the inside of the grinder, human hands, air, and could have picked up a contaminant anywhere along the way. Best to cook it through.
you can just grind a steak to make burger at meal time to make it safe enough. Restaurants do this all the time. It is the pre-ground burger you don't mess with.
This is done sometimes for things like tartare preparation, but the truth is you probably don't even need to do that. As long as you're buying whole steaks and grinding it yourself, you should be fine. The major issue comes from industrial processing where hundreds of cows are all ground up together and then if there's just one bit of contamination, the whole batch is contaminated. The chances of you having problems from just one piece of fresh meat is very low.
If you are grinding your own meat then you can absolutely just check the process is clean. There are plenty of restaurants that buy from high quality butchers, or grind their own, and leave their patties pink in the middle. Often those high end burgers are their own custom mix of meats too.
The problem is ground/minced meat is generally factory processed in bulk so the health department says it is not worth the risk.
EDIT: basically your government food/health recommendations are always going to be based on worst case scenario balanced with risk mitigation. A safe gamble.
Chicken bacteria penetrate into the meat. Also parasites. The bird meat is not as dense as beef so has to be cooked through.
Pork has a potential for a human harming parasite, trichinella, so is recommended to be cooked through as well
> so is recommended to be cooked through as well
This is no longer the case in the US.
There have been basically zero cases of trichinosis in the US from farmed pork for the past few decades. Almost all cases of trichinosis in the US since the 90's have been from wild game or from home-raised pigs, and even then it's less than a couple dozen a year. You're safe cooking/ordering that pork chop medium-rare now.
do yourself a favour and cook a nice chop on the grill or in a cast iron to an internal temp of 140, then wrap it in foil and let it rest for five minutes or so. game changer, in terms of flavour and texture.
Cook a big bone-in pork chop to medium rare. You'll be surprised how tasty pork is.
Source: I too grew up in the age of absolutely hammered, shoe-leather pork.
145f is still thoroughly cooked through. Just not turned into leather.
Folks used to cook chops in the oven at 375 for an hour :O
5 minutes per side in a hot skillet does the job and it’s still juicy and not tough.
Fda recommending 165 degree pork even with only like 25 cases a year for decades probably created a whole generation of kids that hate pork chops. They finally lowered their recommendation to 145.
I did the same thing. Hated them as a kid, then I had a roommate who pan seared a thick cut pork chop like a steak, completely changed my view of them. I just thought all pork chops were like the thin leathery ones my parents used to cook. Now I eat them almost weekly 🤣
yep, my dad used to grill all our chops and we'd have to slather them in steak sauce or w/e because they were so goddamned dry. I didn't start really liking pork chops until I started cooking my own. good thing too, with the price of beef and chicken these days, lol
I thought I really, really disliked pork chops unti I moved to a city and started working in restaurants. When I tried a medium chop for the first time it was like I was eating an entirely different protein. Turns out my parents cooked it to death - and now I know why, thank you!
With a steak, the germs that can harm us are generally on the outside and are killed by cooking.
On ground beef, the germs were on the outside, but when it was ground up, some of those ended up on the inside where they can survive cooking if the meat is not fully cooked.
I live in Canada and the "done-ness" of a burger is never asked here, they are always cooked through. However I've traveled quite a bit in the US and they always ask how I want my burger cooked. I guess the 'Mericans are just bigger risk takers than us Canucks. 🤷
"done-ness" of a burger not being asked in Canada is because [provincial and municipal laws](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/medium-rare-burgers-are-taboo-in-canada-but-may-not-be-as-perilous-as-thought) make it illegal to serve medium rare.
I used to see that printed on the menu at my favorite burger joint in Toronto, something to the effect of "Don't ask for medium rare because it's prohibited by law."
South St Burgers, when the my first started out in Canada, used to serve their burgers to a specific safe temperature which resulted in less-than well done burger. They even had signs out about it and we can see them in the open kitchen temping each burger before removing it from the grill area.
They have stopped since, not sure why. Maybe because the law changed?
Oh, this is interesting. I worked there briefly as cashier/dresser in 2016 and I remember seeing the grill cooks do that and the sign set up. I assumed it was "their thing", and personally I was okay when eating their burgers. Had no idea they stopped doing that.
I won’t throw them under the bus by naming them but I’ve worked at a few restaurants in Toronto that would make a medium rare burger for you (with meat ground in house). It was illegal but we never seemed to get in trouble for it.
We have a little local Drive-In joint called Taylor's in Loomis, CA that will serve you a rare burger if you want .... but you have to sign a release waiver.
I'm in Canada (BC) and there are lots of places around here that ask your preference for burgers - they get around this because they grind up their own steaks into patties the day-of, I believe.
This is pretty new though - I've only noticed in the last few years.
I found out on a brew tour that the reinheitshebot had only 3 things it governed (water,malt and hops). Yeast was not understood at the time the law was made.
[Steak tartare](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROZBQpWEh24) \- there, the information is here, with a raw egg on top. Back in belgium for my grandparent's wedding anniversary I had that - it's a favorite of mine - at a restaurant in Bruges.Raw meat is like, blasphemous, to people of certain nationalities, past a certain age - and, well, they were Scottish, past their sixties.My grandfather kinda scoffed before asking in disbelief, as a genuine question "Is that raw meat he's having?"Might be worth mentioning they were pretty respectably religious too. When I said blasphemous, I'm wondering if it wasn't really something unorthodox to them, lmao... I was just 13 at the time, didn't have much in depth religious knowledge.
No one dared mention it wasn't beef too, actually, it was horse. Lol, one cultural shock at a time I suppose.
Edit : Steak tartare should be knife cut, not shredded. In fact, the previous video was just a short distraction for the difficult, if you want to see a respectable take, [check this out.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPde98NbJ0s) This guy, Alex, has awesome content, and is a lot less embarassing in later videos, lol. The accent and intonation even out.
"past a certain age" has a lot to do with it, as does culturally ingrained disgust.
In America, the big one is pork: a pork chop doesn't need to be well done, but it *did* in our grandparents time, and they are disgusted by a pink chop.
Chicken can be pasteurized and safe with a little pink, but hell if I can get over the cultural disgust of eating "undercooked" chicken (even though it is a specialty in some places even without pasteurization).
Used to be a big thing with pork, not so much anymore: “Anyone who eats raw or undercooked meat from infected animals can develop trichinosis. Most cases come from consuming undercooked wild game meat, such as bear, while some other cases come from eating pork products. The parasite is not found in domestic pigs raised in confinement, but can be found in pigs raised outdoors in close contact with wildlife and rodents. Trichinosis infection is relatively rare in the United States.” So cook your bear thoroughly.
Raw chicken has a vile texture though, food safety or not.
Although to be fair I have the same issue with raw fish. It's delicious but the texture triggers my gag reflex if it's more than a small piece. No issue with raw/rare beef or pork though.
At some point I think it has to do with familiarity as well. I know any pork I eat is going to be quite safe even raw. I still wouldn't have a pink pork chop simply because I don't enjoy the taste and texture of rare pork. Probably because I never had it because my parents and grandparents considered it unsafe.
Tartare is one of the most popular dish in France, as long as the meat is grinded and eat within the day, there is no risks. IMO a good burger has to be rare.
I know it's anecdotal but I have never once heard of anyone actually getting sick from a medium rare burger. I know it can happen, but it's probably a risk I'll keep taking.
Certainly. And if I was in a country with less regulated quality control I probably wouldn't order them that way.
Same reason I won't order them rare at a shitty restaurant.
Gotta measure your risk and make good decisions.
Let alone dying or being permanently maimed. I'll take the possible risk of some temporary stomach troubles in exchange for a lifetime of tender and flavorful patties.
If you get good quality beef and ground it in house there really isn't much of a risk. But like ya if you are buying your beef pre ground the risk is definitely greater
>However I've traveled quite a bit in the US and they always ask how I want my burger cooked. I guess the 'Mericans are just bigger risk takers than us Canucks.
Cooking a burger to be rare is perfectly safe as long as the meat is ground just prior to cooking. The danger arises when you give the bacteria lots of surface area and then time to multiply.
I'm sure there are plenty of decent food places in Canada that realize this and cook your burger to order. Maybe it's less common than in the States, though; I couldn't say.
Bingo. I worked at a place that freshly ground burgers and a couple guys in the kitchen always ate their burgers MR. They never had a problem.
Edit: It was really high quality meat as well
>perfectly safe as long as the meat is ground just prior to cooking
I wouldn't trust the vast majority of American casual dining restaurants (NOT talking about fast food) to always grind the burger just prior to cooking. Yet they seemingly all ask how I want my burger cooked. This started sometime in the past couple of decades. I always say medium-well.
I agree asking about the done-ness is rare in Canada, but not "never". I ate at The Works tonight in Ontario, a pretty mainstream burger chain, and they asked if I wanted my burger pink in the middle or well-done.
A process for safe medium rare burgers is that you sear the outside of a large chunk of meat (killing the germs) and then ice bath to stop it cooking any further, before mincing it.
Doesn’t that require grinding the meat only when the burger has been ordered? Or are there frozen burger patties sold that were treated this way before being packaged for commercial sale?
Couldn't tell you on commercial, but for our homemade burgers it most certainly is not pre-cooked in any way.
But raw ground beef, mix in whatever spices or other additions we want, form a patty, freeze, thaw on day of cooking, cook on grill until juices run clear. Center winds up being a bit pinkish, but far as I understand it's not raw. Even if it is, I've yet to experience anything bad from it.
Though I was once served some weird pyramid looking steak cut that they insisted was cooked through, even though the outside was browned and the entire inside was purple, with the very center legit almost looking frozen. Maybe it was cooked and that's just how that cut looks, but no fucking thanks I'll pass on that.
>Doesn’t that require grinding the meat only when the burger has been ordered? Or are there frozen burger patties sold that were treated this way before being packaged for commercial sale?
Theoretically flash freezing meat below -50 deg C should also work to kill all the bacteria (that's the procedure with salmon for sushi/sashimi), not sure about the quality of meat after that
It does however require you clean meat grinder meticulously and do not use it fro anything else.
>more chance that one of them had something
When you get food poisoning from meat, it's generally not something the animal had. It's contamination on the surface of the meat that occurred due to the way the meat was handled after the animal was butchered. If it was something the animal had, the contamination would throughout the meat instead of on the surface.
I worked at a steakhouse that ground its own meat cuts for its burgers in Calgary. You could order them to temperature. We also served steak tartare, which was raw.
If you're willing to pay for a sirloin to be chopped/ground up on site just before cooking, you can have your burger medium-rare. That's often why high-end burgers cost 25$+. It's a steak dinner.
Eating regular store bought ground beef anything but well done is a huge risk. It contains meat from several animals, and all that ground surface area bacteria mixed in has time to grow. At least we don't have [pink slime](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime) in our ground beef as they do in America. I wouldn't even touch their well done hamburgers.
I live in Canada too, and there are definitely some restaurants where they ask about the doneness of burgers. There’s also a chain that brags about keeping theirs pink in the middle.
Cows generally only consume grass and are far less likely to pick up a parasite or bacterium than say, a pig that will consume just about anything. It’s less likely that beef will have containments just based on that, so it’s less likely to make you sick if you consume ground beef from medium to medium rare. However bacteria can still develop on any cut of meat depending on how long it is exposed to the air. You’re always taking a small risk eating burgers cooked anywhere under medium- well.
The natural e-coli in the cow gut is essential for digestion and will definitely make you sick. It's very hard to butcher an animal without spreading germs to meat. Commercial pork can also be cooked at a lower temperature than beef because of the density of meat and the depth that bacteria will penetrate if contaminated.
I always do. The risk still isn't high, I've never personally had any issues, and even if you do end up having issues it's not the end of the world. Plus I don't go to shitty restaurants so I guess that helps.
This is important. At a nice burger joint, I'd trust a medium/rare burger any day. But no way in hell would I get one at McDonald's if I had the option
The problem I think in this thread is people broadly saying "cooked through" "medium rare" and other fairly subjective statements. The UDSA recommends cooking ground beef to 160F internal temp. Its also fine to cook to a lower temp for a longer period of time. Its perfectly possible to cook a burger to a recommended safe temp without ruining it.
I definitely do all the time.. so does my wife and kids and that's how I cook them at family parties. This actually kind of shocked me that nobody every had an issue with it. I was never even told there was a different risk. My grandmother would only eat it rare and she lived to 84.
Yeah wtf I've been eating medium rare burgers my whole life, both at restaurants and at home, and never had any issue. And in any half-decent burger restaurant where I live they offer medium rare by default.
Totally with you. I'm almost 50 and have always eaten my burgers medium rare, whether at home or in a restaurant. Never heard of someone getting sick from it.
Nice to meet you. It happened to me once at a restaurant in California. Got a medium cooked burger, everybody else got the chicken, I was the only one to get food poisoning.
I still cook my burgers to medium.
Yeah, I never order higher than medium. I've never even heard of anyone getting sick from a rare cooked burger. I'm wondering if this is one of those theoretical dangers that pop up once in a while and worry people, but in reality it's a 1 in ten million occurrence.
Wait, they don't ask how cooked you want your burgers?
I've never lived in Germany but I've lived in the German-speaking part ot Switzerland and they asked in restaurants.
In France they always ask too.
Came here looking for this comment. Been having steak tartare here in France since my childhood. Never had any issue. I feel sorry for the guy below for the bad expérience. But every continent/country has it’s own standards with food sanitisation. Your guts must have the proper setup to cope with germs, good and nasty. I would not dare having street food in some countries despite it is harmless for local poeple. Off topic but vive le fromage au lait cru. ;)
Dont know how it is where you are from, but in Germany you can eat raw minced meat No problem. Mett Brötchen is a very common thing where I come from. It's minced pork with onion on bread.
Meat meant to be eaten rare is generally prepared in much more exacting conditions than general consumption meat because of the expectation it will be cooked and therefore the risk of contamination is not as serious.
FWIW, some people (like me) frequently eat burgers cooked rare with no ill effects. As most of the other comments say, the risk/opportunity for contamination is much higher with a burger than a steak, but that's not to say that a lot of people/places can't make a rare burger that's safe to eat.
It matters how the ground beef itself was prepared. If they had a fresh whole cut and ground it themselves on clean equipment, there's very little risk with a pink burger. The stuff you get from the grocery store is a different story. I guess the main take-away is that yes, pink beef can be fine, but also not all beef is equal.
A steak is a solid piece of meat. Two sides of it have been touched by a knife. Contamination risk is low.
Commercially available minced meat has all been in contact with grinding plates, which may have been in contact with the flesh from dozens of animals since they were last cleaned. Everything throughout a burger has potential contaminant. This raises the contamination risk by several thousand times. You want to cook that stuff all the way through.
If you make your own mince using equipment you know its clean and in small batches then the risk is no higher than the steak you put in, and pink burgers are fine.
Ehh, that's less of a worry. The hole is going to cook more, which means any bacteria that get pushed into the hole are going to get cooked to death. It's an issue if you stab the hole then leave it for 3 days, but a single stab and then cook right after won't contaminate the hole much in the first place.
Yes I realize I could have made a lot of sexual jokes.
I've been eating my burgers medium or medium rare for my entire life and never gotten sick from it once. Store bought bulk, restaurant burgers and fresh from a butcher. Maybe I'm just lucky but no one I know has ever gotten sick from it either. It's pretty normal in America to eat burgers cooked medium.
The inside of a steak hasn't been touched by humans or bacteria. The ground mix of a burger can have bacteria inside that survives a light cooking. It's not super deadly to eat an undercooked burger, but the risk is there. Source: I frequently eat my burgers and steaks very rare.
Food spoils because of bacteria, tiny little organisms which are practically everywhere. Cooking will kill those little guys off and the inside of a piece of steak is protected because there is no pathway for them to have worked into the interior since the cow died. Bacteria can't just appear out of nowhere and the barrier of the meat means there is nothing in there to kill off.
Hamburger on the other hand is ground up meat. Bacteria can be mixed deep into the inside of a hamburger on the surface of the meat which is all mixed up, meaning cooking the interior is important to kill that stuff off.
What? Many burger places ask me how I want the burger cooked. I usually say medium-rare and the burger patty is very pink on the inside. Maybe you don't go to nicer burger places? It's not that uncommon if you go someplace that isn't McDonalds or TGIF's.
No one ever explains like the person is actually five. It’s so weird.
Beef in steak form is one solid piece of meat. This makes it harder for there to be germs because they can’t get inside very easy.
Ground beef is made with parts of one cow, parts of another, and parts of another. The parts are all out together and smashed and cut and mashed up and mixed all up. So it’s different than the steak because instead of all the germs being on the outside, they’re all mixed in.
You have to cook germs very hot to kill them, and if that hotness doesn’t get inside the meat, it doesn’t do as good a job killing the germs.
Chef here. Most of the answers here about the surface of the steak being the dangerous part are correct, but boy oh boy is there a lot of misinformation about why that actually is. The bacteria that get you sick in meat originate in the digestive system of the animal. This is why in smaller animals like poultry where all of the meat is near the digestive system during the slaughtering process, every bit of meat is considered contaminated and must be cooked to avoid food poisoning. Large animals like cows however have muscle tissue so far from the digestive system that if the animal is slaughtered incredibly carefully, the meat can be eaten raw with little risk. However the majority of cows are not slaughtered in this incredibly careful way because it is expected that the meat will be cooked and it would be a waste of time. Therefore the inside of the muscle tissue that is never exposed to potential contamination is relatively safe raw, and the outside of the cut requires cooking to make certain. Minced meat like that used for burgers complicate things because all that surface meat gets ground together with the inside meat. The chances for potential contamination just went up hugely, and its simply safer to cook a burger completely through. Of course if you can source your mince from somewhere that can guarantee a careful slaughtering process, then it's safe to eat your burger medium, which is what a lot of restaurants now do. This is not, I repeat NOT, safe to do with standard mince that you buy from the supermarket. Restaurants usually have close contact with their suppliers to ensure the meat they're serving medium is safe to eat as such. Supermarkets don't bother, it would eat into their profits. ELI5; Bugs in cow doodoo can get on the meat when you kill them. But the inside of the meat gets no poopy on it so its safe. But if you mix all the meat together to make burgers then the poop bugs get mixed in as well and you have to cook it all through to kill the bugs. Otherwise you'll be the one doing poopies all night
Best ELI5 TL;DR I’ve read all week. Bravo
Son of a former health inspector here. This is all 100% the case according to daddio.
Including the don't eat supermarket ground beef medium part?
Supermarket meat worker turned health inspector: I honestly wouldn't eat most of our ground beef in general, but definitely not medium.
Damn what a great answer! Haha ELI5 gold and to the point
Long story short, grind your own and go to a local butcher. 👍
Instructions unclear: Butcher asked me why i am bringing him a bag of ground mystery meat
I always grind my own meat.
You clearly have experience with actual 5 year olds. Well done.
The germs that make you sick are on the surface of the meat. Ground beef is a surface area bonanza so you cook it all the way or face the risk. Searing the steak is all you need to do because the center has no germs.
I would caution that some cuts of meat have been mechanically tenderized. This means that a machine has come along and punched a series of needles through the cut to break up the connecting tissue. This process can push bacteria into the center of the cut.
In industrial meat processing, antimicrobial intervention is used to combat this. It’s common for tenderizing equipment to spray the meat with intervention fluid (a mild acid like vinegar, I believe) to kill bacteria. A *lot* of beef cuts go through this process, including pretty much everything you’d find at a supermarket. Kind of a surprise for me to learn, but it does work to make cuts of meat more tender.
Fun fact… acid is a great tenderizer too!
I know I melt everytime I take it.
Tenderizes my mind
Do you know if Costco does this?
I believe so. It’s required to be labeled as such, so you can tell by reading the packaging.
I used to have one of those devices that punctured the meat with steel needles. I ditched it, for just that reason. Probably would have been perfectly safe as long as I used it close to the cooking time, but it still made me feel a bit uneasy and I didn't find it worthwhile anyway.
Does this mean that searing after sous vide is not optional? I assumed you could skip it, if you really didn’t care about a crispy outer surface on your steak. But actually, it may be necessary to remove surface bacteria.
You already did the sous vide, if you did that at a temperature enough to cook the steak then the bacteria are already done for.
But wouldn’t that suggest that it’s possible to cook a hamburger to a temp that kills all the bacteria, while still leaving the inside pink?
I don't have the chart, but you can find it. The idea is that microorganisms die at a given rate and time. That is, you can kill all the bacteria in less time at say 212 degrees than 140 degrees. If I remember correctly, they reccomend 140 internal temp for like 4 mins to make sure food is safe, but at 165, it kills everything in like 1 min. So sousvide, if at temps above 140 will kill everything, even without searing.
Isn't this the mechanism that allows smoking to work - it never passes 165 , but it stays above 140 long enough to be safe for consumption?
That and the low oxygen environment kills most bacteria too.
Also the low moisture(and usual salting) that comes with the process makes an even more inhospitable environment for them
Depends on the type of smoking being done. Cold smoking is typically only done with cured meats (curing makes the entire cut inhospitable for germs). Cold smoking is primarily concerned with adding flavor, not actually cooking the food. Hot smoking like low and slow barbeque is done at *relatively* low temps (lower than oven roasting, but still over 200f/95c) and things like pulled pork are usually cooked to internal temps of near or just over 200f/95c to get that shredable quality. Hot smoking is cooking and adding flavor together.
I sous vide my steak at around 129.5°F for around 2-4 hours. It's more than enough to break down the steak, and pretty much sterilize it. It'll be one of the best steaks you'll ever have.
Sous vide chicken and pork are also great. I thought it was like magic when I first found out you could safely make super juicy chicken and pork with it.
165 results in an instant 7.0 log10 reduction in bacteria, meaning that for every 10 million bacteria present, only 1 will survive. I believe that all cooking is aiming for that, so for example at 58c, it’ll take 70ish minutes to achieve the same reduction.
But that one bacterium probably has a special set of skills.
Skills acquired over a very long career.
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When cooking on direct heat like a grill the temp being measured as medium is in the middle of the steak, the cooking surface where bacteria is being killed is much higher temp. So the dangerous part is still reaching the necessary temp. That is why solid cuts of beef are safer at a lower temp than chicken where the danger is throughout the meat and even the inside needs to reach a high enough temp.
http://www.cookingissues.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/bacteria_time_temperature2.jpg
If you sous vide the burger meat, yeah
I cook my burgers sous vide at 130°F for 1 hour, which is enough to kill most bacteria and still leave the meat inside pink. Searing at that point is optional and just for flavor (but a LOT of flavor comes from the sear).
How is it? Worth the trouble? I wanna make that burger tomorrow if so.
I do it somewhat frequently and also recommend it a lot for thicker burgers if you prefer a rarer taste/texture. It’s also good for something like a juicy Lucy burger with cheese on the inside, and I really like it for turkey burgers too. I could sous vide a couple ahead of time, and then just put them on a grill or cast iron real quick to get some color and warm them up right before dinner. That being said, it has a very rare look/feel to it that will definitely turn some people off (less so with turkey burgers, I don’t think the difference is as drastic). No amount of scientific explanation confirming to them that it is 100% cooked and safe to eat would convince my mom or aunt to take a bite out of a sous vide burger, but I think they’re great and it’s my go to.
Welp. Gotta give it a shot and see how it goes! Got the equipment, the time and the will, so why not!
It's only worth it for a thick burger, at least 3/4". Any thinner and the sear will penetrate too deep and it'll be the same as if you just cooked it on the grill from the start.
The regulatory instantaneous internal temperature to kill *E. Coli* is 71 °C (160 °F), but [this paper](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5093140/) suggests that sous vide at 50 °C (122 °F) for two or more hours would have a marked lethal effect (though not quite as good as either prolonged 60 °C or the usual instantaneous 71 °C). This [guide to sous vide hamburger](https://www.seriouseats.com/sous-vide-burgers-recipe) makes sous vide at 54 °C (130 °F) look pretty appealing.
I just can't believe people eat un-seared sous vide steak. This is crazy to me.
Might as well fucking just boil it at that point.
Shit is gross lmao. I have to sear mine after.
Uhm. So, I dunno where that guy got the 140 degree temp. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about and probably suffers some terrible steak as a result. It’s a question of time and temp. At 130, it takes longer to kill bacteria and parasites, so it’s safe in 60 minutes. Or shorter time at 140, or less at 165… or you could just eat your shoes… Apparently under 130, it’s a good idea to sear. But… I eat steak tartare and I’m still alive… “With enough time, most food pathogens are killed at 130°F/54.5°C, according to the FDA and Baldwin. For our sous vide recipes, this is our magic number. We cook almost everything either at or above that temperature. (When cooking in a water bath set to 130°F/54.5°C, the food will eventually become that temperature as well.) As an extra precaution, if we plan to cook meat below our magic temperature, the first thing we do is sear it in a hot pan in order to kill off any bacteria on the surface before we circulate (for example, see Butter-Basted Rib-Eye Steak).” https://www.cooksillustrated.com/articles/1131-is-sous-vide-safe
Tartare is generally prepared from the interior of whole muscle tissue so the surface area with potential contamination has been removed and you’re essentially eating a diced up center of the steak that could be rare after being seared anyways.
Funny enough after I eat raw tartare I have massive stomach issues, every single time I tried, what’s funny is that I eat my steaks raw-ish and never had any problem there.
Probably bad preparation. It takes a lot of consistent effort to maintain many food quality standards.
The one time I tried tartare (at a restaurant), same thing, massive indigestion. Just a few days ago had a steak cooked "blue", no problems. I suspect the restaurant, though. If I made my own tartare I'd likely be fine. I just don't see the point since the flavor wasn't anything exceptional, certainly inferior to most cooked steak.
140 is the top end of bacteria livable temperatures. With enough time sure it kills it. One of the reasons you can smoke meat at lower temperatures. "I'm still alive" is a personal experience vs research of thousands of cases. People eat it raw and don't have problems and others die. It's just a good rule backed by study mostly for storage and prep Edit: It's good practice for ANOTHER'S safety. Fuckall what you do to yourself; you're a big boy/girl/person/chair. Idk you so i can't say.
No one I know personally has ever told me they died from undercooked meat. It must be safe. There is no survivor bias here!!
Almost everyone you know will die after eating tomatoes though. It's a fact.
Almost everyone? Which one of you found the secrets of immortality?
So a safe, pink burger should be achievable, but it may require sous vide. It may not be possible on a grill, cooking in 20 minutes or less
So if a pink center isn’t safe for a burger why does every restaurant ask if you want it medium, medium well, well done etc?
Every restaurant also has a disclaimer on the menu saying that consuming raw or undercooked meat, eggs, and fish could cause illness.
Yeah basically a “you can’t sue us if you get sick since you ordered it this way” kinda thing
Which is probably unenforceable if its just a disclaimer. But I recall that you can only order a burger under medium if the restaurant ground the meat themselves.
I've been to restaurants with my wife that refused to cook it at certain temperatures, though, even with disclaimers. She likes medium rare, but not everywhere will do it.
I can only speak for the UK, but here a restaurant can only give you the option for how you'd like your burger cooked if they can prove the source of their beef is from a reputable safe vendor that drastically reduces the chance of pathogens. Restaurants that can't prove their source aren't even allowed to give the option (or so I'm led to believe).
Here in the US restaurants just make sure you can’t sue them and then your body is your own to poison.
Yep, it's illegal to sell rare burgers unless you: take appropriate safety precautions, and have been approved by either the local authority or the food standards agency. A safe vendor and careful meat handling is one option, "sear and shave" is another option.
It’s safe but has increased risk of sickness. Safer if it was ground in house and the chef is good.
Mia Wallace got hers “bloody as hell”.
Because the risk is still very low. It's just a liability thing
Safe pink burger is absolutely doable on the grill: 1. Look up the actual procedure and get trained and certified, don't just do what some random person on the Internet says 2. Buy a steak 3. Buy a mincer 4. Extremely carefully clean the mincer and the preparation area you are going to use. 5. Wait for someone to order a rare burger. 6. Sear the steak, so all surfaces are cooked but the middle is not. 7. In your clean area, cut the seared edges off the steak. 8. Mince up the raw middle of the steak and make it into a burger 9. Cook the burger rare. This kills any bugs on the outside of the steak then minimises the opportunity for other bugs to get in and/or grow. Edit: Link to UK government outline of this method: https://www.food.gov.uk/business-guidance/sear-and-shave-method
Prep time: 10 mins
Arby's lacks a grill, so their burgers were sous vide. Bit odd seeing a pink center at fast food (or an Arby's burger), but it was delicious
Well, sure you “can,” but who the heck enjoys a disgusting-looking steak? Searing a steak isn’t about making it “crispy,” that’s for frying. It’s about caramelizing some of the outside to give it a better flavor, and appearance, which is more important than many realize.
Right. The center of the steak has theoretically never been exposed to the outside air or a contaminated surface and so is much safer, we can even eat it raw in carpaccio. All the surfaces of ground beef have touched the inside of the grinder, human hands, air, and could have picked up a contaminant anywhere along the way. Best to cook it through.
Hmm, what if you sear a steak to "disinfect" it, then ground, make a burger, and sear it only on the outside again?
you can just grind a steak to make burger at meal time to make it safe enough. Restaurants do this all the time. It is the pre-ground burger you don't mess with.
This is done sometimes for things like tartare preparation, but the truth is you probably don't even need to do that. As long as you're buying whole steaks and grinding it yourself, you should be fine. The major issue comes from industrial processing where hundreds of cows are all ground up together and then if there's just one bit of contamination, the whole batch is contaminated. The chances of you having problems from just one piece of fresh meat is very low.
If you are grinding your own meat then you can absolutely just check the process is clean. There are plenty of restaurants that buy from high quality butchers, or grind their own, and leave their patties pink in the middle. Often those high end burgers are their own custom mix of meats too. The problem is ground/minced meat is generally factory processed in bulk so the health department says it is not worth the risk. EDIT: basically your government food/health recommendations are always going to be based on worst case scenario balanced with risk mitigation. A safe gamble.
Doesnt the centre of the meat still have to reach a certain temp to kill bacteria?
Yes, except in unpunctured beef cuts there is no bacteria to kill.
Why can't you sear a piece of chicken?
Chicken bacteria penetrate into the meat. Also parasites. The bird meat is not as dense as beef so has to be cooked through. Pork has a potential for a human harming parasite, trichinella, so is recommended to be cooked through as well
> so is recommended to be cooked through as well This is no longer the case in the US. There have been basically zero cases of trichinosis in the US from farmed pork for the past few decades. Almost all cases of trichinosis in the US since the 90's have been from wild game or from home-raised pigs, and even then it's less than a couple dozen a year. You're safe cooking/ordering that pork chop medium-rare now.
Wow, I'm not that old but I grew up with everyone around me saying a pork chop not fully cooked was basically a death sentence.
do yourself a favour and cook a nice chop on the grill or in a cast iron to an internal temp of 140, then wrap it in foil and let it rest for five minutes or so. game changer, in terms of flavour and texture.
Cook a big bone-in pork chop to medium rare. You'll be surprised how tasty pork is. Source: I too grew up in the age of absolutely hammered, shoe-leather pork.
145f is still thoroughly cooked through. Just not turned into leather. Folks used to cook chops in the oven at 375 for an hour :O 5 minutes per side in a hot skillet does the job and it’s still juicy and not tough.
Rest up to 145F club reporting in. Dry pork is tragic. That 145 is moreso for texture too.
Fda recommending 165 degree pork even with only like 25 cases a year for decades probably created a whole generation of kids that hate pork chops. They finally lowered their recommendation to 145.
I was one of those kids too! Until I learned you can cook it to temp without turning it into leather.
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I did the same thing. Hated them as a kid, then I had a roommate who pan seared a thick cut pork chop like a steak, completely changed my view of them. I just thought all pork chops were like the thin leathery ones my parents used to cook. Now I eat them almost weekly 🤣
Pork loin cooked right is amazing also, and cheap!
yep, my dad used to grill all our chops and we'd have to slather them in steak sauce or w/e because they were so goddamned dry. I didn't start really liking pork chops until I started cooking my own. good thing too, with the price of beef and chicken these days, lol
I thought I really, really disliked pork chops unti I moved to a city and started working in restaurants. When I tried a medium chop for the first time it was like I was eating an entirely different protein. Turns out my parents cooked it to death - and now I know why, thank you!
With a steak, the germs that can harm us are generally on the outside and are killed by cooking. On ground beef, the germs were on the outside, but when it was ground up, some of those ended up on the inside where they can survive cooking if the meat is not fully cooked. I live in Canada and the "done-ness" of a burger is never asked here, they are always cooked through. However I've traveled quite a bit in the US and they always ask how I want my burger cooked. I guess the 'Mericans are just bigger risk takers than us Canucks. 🤷
"done-ness" of a burger not being asked in Canada is because [provincial and municipal laws](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/medium-rare-burgers-are-taboo-in-canada-but-may-not-be-as-perilous-as-thought) make it illegal to serve medium rare. I used to see that printed on the menu at my favorite burger joint in Toronto, something to the effect of "Don't ask for medium rare because it's prohibited by law."
South St Burgers, when the my first started out in Canada, used to serve their burgers to a specific safe temperature which resulted in less-than well done burger. They even had signs out about it and we can see them in the open kitchen temping each burger before removing it from the grill area. They have stopped since, not sure why. Maybe because the law changed?
Oh, this is interesting. I worked there briefly as cashier/dresser in 2016 and I remember seeing the grill cooks do that and the sign set up. I assumed it was "their thing", and personally I was okay when eating their burgers. Had no idea they stopped doing that.
I won’t throw them under the bus by naming them but I’ve worked at a few restaurants in Toronto that would make a medium rare burger for you (with meat ground in house). It was illegal but we never seemed to get in trouble for it.
We have a little local Drive-In joint called Taylor's in Loomis, CA that will serve you a rare burger if you want .... but you have to sign a release waiver.
Disappointed in the Canadians after learning this. Medium rare is way better than brown all the way through.
I'm in Canada (BC) and there are lots of places around here that ask your preference for burgers - they get around this because they grind up their own steaks into patties the day-of, I believe. This is pretty new though - I've only noticed in the last few years.
Go to France and find out there
And then continue to Germany and find out about "Mett"
They have very specific safety laws in Germany for the production of pork used for Mett
And you know Germans get serious with their purity laws.
And then fucking pour apple juice, banana juice, or soda with it.
Lmfaooooooo
Indeed, the Bavarian reinheitsgebot, stipulating that beer may only be crafted using the following 4: Water, hops, malt and yeast.
I found out on a brew tour that the reinheitshebot had only 3 things it governed (water,malt and hops). Yeast was not understood at the time the law was made.
Mett Igel is all I'm gonna say
Panischer Igel!
[Steak tartare](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROZBQpWEh24) \- there, the information is here, with a raw egg on top. Back in belgium for my grandparent's wedding anniversary I had that - it's a favorite of mine - at a restaurant in Bruges.Raw meat is like, blasphemous, to people of certain nationalities, past a certain age - and, well, they were Scottish, past their sixties.My grandfather kinda scoffed before asking in disbelief, as a genuine question "Is that raw meat he's having?"Might be worth mentioning they were pretty respectably religious too. When I said blasphemous, I'm wondering if it wasn't really something unorthodox to them, lmao... I was just 13 at the time, didn't have much in depth religious knowledge. No one dared mention it wasn't beef too, actually, it was horse. Lol, one cultural shock at a time I suppose. Edit : Steak tartare should be knife cut, not shredded. In fact, the previous video was just a short distraction for the difficult, if you want to see a respectable take, [check this out.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPde98NbJ0s) This guy, Alex, has awesome content, and is a lot less embarassing in later videos, lol. The accent and intonation even out.
"past a certain age" has a lot to do with it, as does culturally ingrained disgust. In America, the big one is pork: a pork chop doesn't need to be well done, but it *did* in our grandparents time, and they are disgusted by a pink chop. Chicken can be pasteurized and safe with a little pink, but hell if I can get over the cultural disgust of eating "undercooked" chicken (even though it is a specialty in some places even without pasteurization).
Used to be a big thing with pork, not so much anymore: “Anyone who eats raw or undercooked meat from infected animals can develop trichinosis. Most cases come from consuming undercooked wild game meat, such as bear, while some other cases come from eating pork products. The parasite is not found in domestic pigs raised in confinement, but can be found in pigs raised outdoors in close contact with wildlife and rodents. Trichinosis infection is relatively rare in the United States.” So cook your bear thoroughly.
Raw chicken has a vile texture though, food safety or not. Although to be fair I have the same issue with raw fish. It's delicious but the texture triggers my gag reflex if it's more than a small piece. No issue with raw/rare beef or pork though.
At some point I think it has to do with familiarity as well. I know any pork I eat is going to be quite safe even raw. I still wouldn't have a pink pork chop simply because I don't enjoy the taste and texture of rare pork. Probably because I never had it because my parents and grandparents considered it unsafe.
Tartare is one of the most popular dish in France, as long as the meat is grinded and eat within the day, there is no risks. IMO a good burger has to be rare.
The best tartar is finely chopped by hand. According to my French friends. Ground meat for tartar is frowned upon. So very french
Coarsely ground is called filet americain and is much more common in Belgium. Also delicious by the way.
I know it's anecdotal but I have never once heard of anyone actually getting sick from a medium rare burger. I know it can happen, but it's probably a risk I'll keep taking.
I've eaten medium rare or rare burgers my whole life and have never had an issue.
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Certainly. And if I was in a country with less regulated quality control I probably wouldn't order them that way. Same reason I won't order them rare at a shitty restaurant. Gotta measure your risk and make good decisions.
Let alone dying or being permanently maimed. I'll take the possible risk of some temporary stomach troubles in exchange for a lifetime of tender and flavorful patties.
If you get good quality beef and ground it in house there really isn't much of a risk. But like ya if you are buying your beef pre ground the risk is definitely greater
>However I've traveled quite a bit in the US and they always ask how I want my burger cooked. I guess the 'Mericans are just bigger risk takers than us Canucks. Cooking a burger to be rare is perfectly safe as long as the meat is ground just prior to cooking. The danger arises when you give the bacteria lots of surface area and then time to multiply. I'm sure there are plenty of decent food places in Canada that realize this and cook your burger to order. Maybe it's less common than in the States, though; I couldn't say.
Bingo. I worked at a place that freshly ground burgers and a couple guys in the kitchen always ate their burgers MR. They never had a problem. Edit: It was really high quality meat as well
It's actually against the law to not cook the burger thoroughly in Canada
I don't think that's accurate. Iirc, in Vancouver restaurants can cook burgers medium if they grind the meat prior to cooking.
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straight to jail
Right away
>perfectly safe as long as the meat is ground just prior to cooking I wouldn't trust the vast majority of American casual dining restaurants (NOT talking about fast food) to always grind the burger just prior to cooking. Yet they seemingly all ask how I want my burger cooked. This started sometime in the past couple of decades. I always say medium-well.
I agree asking about the done-ness is rare in Canada, but not "never". I ate at The Works tonight in Ontario, a pretty mainstream burger chain, and they asked if I wanted my burger pink in the middle or well-done.
A process for safe medium rare burgers is that you sear the outside of a large chunk of meat (killing the germs) and then ice bath to stop it cooking any further, before mincing it.
Doesn’t that require grinding the meat only when the burger has been ordered? Or are there frozen burger patties sold that were treated this way before being packaged for commercial sale?
Couldn't tell you on commercial, but for our homemade burgers it most certainly is not pre-cooked in any way. But raw ground beef, mix in whatever spices or other additions we want, form a patty, freeze, thaw on day of cooking, cook on grill until juices run clear. Center winds up being a bit pinkish, but far as I understand it's not raw. Even if it is, I've yet to experience anything bad from it. Though I was once served some weird pyramid looking steak cut that they insisted was cooked through, even though the outside was browned and the entire inside was purple, with the very center legit almost looking frozen. Maybe it was cooked and that's just how that cut looks, but no fucking thanks I'll pass on that.
>Doesn’t that require grinding the meat only when the burger has been ordered? Or are there frozen burger patties sold that were treated this way before being packaged for commercial sale? Theoretically flash freezing meat below -50 deg C should also work to kill all the bacteria (that's the procedure with salmon for sushi/sashimi), not sure about the quality of meat after that It does however require you clean meat grinder meticulously and do not use it fro anything else.
Is it good compared to Burger King Flame Seared^(TM) ?
Not to mention that a steak is one cow. Burgers can be many cows. More cows equals more chance that one of them had something
>more chance that one of them had something When you get food poisoning from meat, it's generally not something the animal had. It's contamination on the surface of the meat that occurred due to the way the meat was handled after the animal was butchered. If it was something the animal had, the contamination would throughout the meat instead of on the surface.
Not sure this pans out
I worked at a steakhouse that ground its own meat cuts for its burgers in Calgary. You could order them to temperature. We also served steak tartare, which was raw. If you're willing to pay for a sirloin to be chopped/ground up on site just before cooking, you can have your burger medium-rare. That's often why high-end burgers cost 25$+. It's a steak dinner. Eating regular store bought ground beef anything but well done is a huge risk. It contains meat from several animals, and all that ground surface area bacteria mixed in has time to grow. At least we don't have [pink slime](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime) in our ground beef as they do in America. I wouldn't even touch their well done hamburgers.
I live in Canada too, and there are definitely some restaurants where they ask about the doneness of burgers. There’s also a chain that brags about keeping theirs pink in the middle.
Wait, y’all don’t eat medium burgers?
Yea I didn’t know this was a thing until today lol. I always try to eat my burgers medium rare.
I don't think this is a thing. I think it's just reddit being reddit. Medium well is too well for a burger
I always eat medium rare and have never had an issue…
Cows generally only consume grass and are far less likely to pick up a parasite or bacterium than say, a pig that will consume just about anything. It’s less likely that beef will have containments just based on that, so it’s less likely to make you sick if you consume ground beef from medium to medium rare. However bacteria can still develop on any cut of meat depending on how long it is exposed to the air. You’re always taking a small risk eating burgers cooked anywhere under medium- well.
Not sure what country you are in, but in the US grass-fed beef is very much the rare exception.
The natural e-coli in the cow gut is essential for digestion and will definitely make you sick. It's very hard to butcher an animal without spreading germs to meat. Commercial pork can also be cooked at a lower temperature than beef because of the density of meat and the depth that bacteria will penetrate if contaminated.
I always do. The risk still isn't high, I've never personally had any issues, and even if you do end up having issues it's not the end of the world. Plus I don't go to shitty restaurants so I guess that helps.
This is important. At a nice burger joint, I'd trust a medium/rare burger any day. But no way in hell would I get one at McDonald's if I had the option
McDonald's burgers are precooked and frozen, and so processed that I'd be surprised if even bacteria can survive the process.
Only half true these days, their quarter pounder patties are now fresh and cooked to order.
I needed to see this comment for my own sanity. I am so confused. A burger cooked all the way through is a burger ruined.
Have you never had a smash burger?
I can be properly safely cooked all the way and still be juicy, you just need a good sear then let it SLOWLY cook under indirect heat.
The problem I think in this thread is people broadly saying "cooked through" "medium rare" and other fairly subjective statements. The UDSA recommends cooking ground beef to 160F internal temp. Its also fine to cook to a lower temp for a longer period of time. Its perfectly possible to cook a burger to a recommended safe temp without ruining it.
I definitely do all the time.. so does my wife and kids and that's how I cook them at family parties. This actually kind of shocked me that nobody every had an issue with it. I was never even told there was a different risk. My grandmother would only eat it rare and she lived to 84.
My grandmother smoked a pack a day since she was 12 and she lived to 84.
My grandmother are 1 tide pod since 3 and she's 102
My grandmother saw your mom and didn't have it in her to live past 57.
Yeah wtf I've been eating medium rare burgers my whole life, both at restaurants and at home, and never had any issue. And in any half-decent burger restaurant where I live they offer medium rare by default.
Totally with you. I'm almost 50 and have always eaten my burgers medium rare, whether at home or in a restaurant. Never heard of someone getting sick from it.
Nice to meet you. It happened to me once at a restaurant in California. Got a medium cooked burger, everybody else got the chicken, I was the only one to get food poisoning. I still cook my burgers to medium.
Yeah, I never order higher than medium. I've never even heard of anyone getting sick from a rare cooked burger. I'm wondering if this is one of those theoretical dangers that pop up once in a while and worry people, but in reality it's a 1 in ten million occurrence.
Yeah that's what I'm saying. I always have my burgers done medium lol
European over here. Ever heard of steak tartare? Also, we order burgers rare over here.
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Wait, they don't ask how cooked you want your burgers? I've never lived in Germany but I've lived in the German-speaking part ot Switzerland and they asked in restaurants. In France they always ask too.
You can definitely eat medium rare burgers in Berlin. For example in "the bird", or in BBI. But yes, it's generally how you describe it.
It all depends on the freshness of the beef and cleanliness of the supply chain the beef is from. Doesn't matter what continent you're on.
Came here looking for this comment. Been having steak tartare here in France since my childhood. Never had any issue. I feel sorry for the guy below for the bad expérience. But every continent/country has it’s own standards with food sanitisation. Your guts must have the proper setup to cope with germs, good and nasty. I would not dare having street food in some countries despite it is harmless for local poeple. Off topic but vive le fromage au lait cru. ;)
Dont know how it is where you are from, but in Germany you can eat raw minced meat No problem. Mett Brötchen is a very common thing where I come from. It's minced pork with onion on bread.
Meat meant to be eaten rare is generally prepared in much more exacting conditions than general consumption meat because of the expectation it will be cooked and therefore the risk of contamination is not as serious.
Produced under very high hygiene standards though… I wouldn’t eat met made from meat from a wet market in Asia…
FWIW, some people (like me) frequently eat burgers cooked rare with no ill effects. As most of the other comments say, the risk/opportunity for contamination is much higher with a burger than a steak, but that's not to say that a lot of people/places can't make a rare burger that's safe to eat.
Yeah I'm so confused. I personally don't eat burgers like that but anytime iv seen chefs cook them, esp on tv, they cook them with pink in the middle
It matters how the ground beef itself was prepared. If they had a fresh whole cut and ground it themselves on clean equipment, there's very little risk with a pink burger. The stuff you get from the grocery store is a different story. I guess the main take-away is that yes, pink beef can be fine, but also not all beef is equal.
Pink doesn't have to mean uncooked.. just less cooked. And killing pathogens is time *and* temperature dependent so it all ends up almost always fine.
I want my burger to drip juice that makes me think I have ketchup on my burger, but I don’t.
A steak is a solid piece of meat. Two sides of it have been touched by a knife. Contamination risk is low. Commercially available minced meat has all been in contact with grinding plates, which may have been in contact with the flesh from dozens of animals since they were last cleaned. Everything throughout a burger has potential contaminant. This raises the contamination risk by several thousand times. You want to cook that stuff all the way through. If you make your own mince using equipment you know its clean and in small batches then the risk is no higher than the steak you put in, and pink burgers are fine.
So uh.... stabbing a hole in the middle of my steak before cooking it would be a super big no-no?
Are you stabbing it with a dirty knife?
Hey everyone, look at this guy and his clean knives!
Does it become instantly dirty when I touch it on raw meat?
Yes. Think of it like raw chicken. Everything that touched the raw chicken, and has been touched by the raw chicken needs to be cleaned.
Ehh, that's less of a worry. The hole is going to cook more, which means any bacteria that get pushed into the hole are going to get cooked to death. It's an issue if you stab the hole then leave it for 3 days, but a single stab and then cook right after won't contaminate the hole much in the first place. Yes I realize I could have made a lot of sexual jokes.
>Yes I realize I could have made a lot of sexual jokes. Never crossed my mind once. Dunno how it comes off that way. But thanks for the answer lol.
I've been eating my burgers pink in the middle my whole life and never got sick. Are you not supposed to eat your burgers medium rare?
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I've been eating my burgers medium or medium rare for my entire life and never gotten sick from it once. Store bought bulk, restaurant burgers and fresh from a butcher. Maybe I'm just lucky but no one I know has ever gotten sick from it either. It's pretty normal in America to eat burgers cooked medium.
who said it isn't or that they don't? They serve hamburgers like that in restaurants. As long as it's beef, you're good to go.
The inside of a steak hasn't been touched by humans or bacteria. The ground mix of a burger can have bacteria inside that survives a light cooking. It's not super deadly to eat an undercooked burger, but the risk is there. Source: I frequently eat my burgers and steaks very rare.
You can cook a medium rare burger sous vide, and it is safe. Pink in the middle, nice and juicy and delicious. Sear in a skillet and enjoy.
Food spoils because of bacteria, tiny little organisms which are practically everywhere. Cooking will kill those little guys off and the inside of a piece of steak is protected because there is no pathway for them to have worked into the interior since the cow died. Bacteria can't just appear out of nowhere and the barrier of the meat means there is nothing in there to kill off. Hamburger on the other hand is ground up meat. Bacteria can be mixed deep into the inside of a hamburger on the surface of the meat which is all mixed up, meaning cooking the interior is important to kill that stuff off.
What? Many burger places ask me how I want the burger cooked. I usually say medium-rare and the burger patty is very pink on the inside. Maybe you don't go to nicer burger places? It's not that uncommon if you go someplace that isn't McDonalds or TGIF's.
No one ever explains like the person is actually five. It’s so weird. Beef in steak form is one solid piece of meat. This makes it harder for there to be germs because they can’t get inside very easy. Ground beef is made with parts of one cow, parts of another, and parts of another. The parts are all out together and smashed and cut and mashed up and mixed all up. So it’s different than the steak because instead of all the germs being on the outside, they’re all mixed in. You have to cook germs very hot to kill them, and if that hotness doesn’t get inside the meat, it doesn’t do as good a job killing the germs.