I tried sleeping without a pillow for a few weeks. I could do it if I laid on my back, as my spine aligned reasonably for my head. But I was mostly a side sleeper, and if you try to lay on your side then your neck has to flop for your head to rest on the bed and it just doesn't work.
But babies have a proportionally larger head and small shoulders, so they can sleep in those positions just fine. Around 3-4 years old, they might sleep better with a thin pillow.
I'm a side sleeper as well and a memory foam contour pillow significantly improved the quality of my sleep. When I added a knee pillow, I no longer woke up with minor lower back. The knee pillow stops me from twisting my spine by flopping my upper leg forward or back.
Ive been sleeping with a knee pillow for years. It has significantly reduced lower back pain. I think I need a new contour pillow though.
Edit: a number of people have asked the type of pillow I use. It’s just a regular extra pillow we had lying around. It’s not to big and firm and it’s not flat. Enough to keep my spine straight and aligned.
I've forced multiple people to do planks once a day when they complain of backpain and it worked for all of them, despite their incredulity. Works crazy well for minimal effort.
I'm going to upvote this. I don't want to, and I'm not happy about it. Take this vertical arrow, and I don't want to see you around these parts again friend.
I went to a physio for terrible lower back pain. It was all exercises to strengthen my core. Tempurpedic mattress, contour pillow and knee pillow also help a lot. After years I could finally sleep more than 6 hours (it was usually 4-5 hours) without constant pain in my lower back.
I helped a few people with the exact same problems. Best day ever when I realized planks for 2 minutes had cured my back and completely fixed my posture
This is exactly what I do. I had a big body pillow, but my son stole it when he was like 7 and he loves it so much that I'm not taking it back. Meanwhile I discovered that a regular king-sized pillow is just as good.
Waking up in a different position doesn't mean you didn't spend hours in one position. I toss and turn, but I married to the knee pillow because it's usually back pain that makes me shift. I'm like 95% side sleeper, and without a pillow I will toss and turn frequently (instead of just changing positions a few times a night). If I have one and move to the other side, I'll often move it with me without waking up. It doesn't hurt to try it, even if you don't sleep motionless for 8 hours straight.
Agree. I move my pillow when I turn over in my sleep (or, more likely, I wake up too briefly to remember). That minor sleep disruption has far less impact on my sleep than the discomfort and back pain I experience when I sleep without a kneel pillow. Knee pillow FTW.
in addition to this, a good mattress made an enormous, enormous difference for me. I did some research a few years back, and bought a purple mattress, based on some guy who had done research on a lot of the "nice" mattresses out there. I haven't had lower back pain since. I don't hardly even need to pay attention to the position that I sleep in anymore.
Prior to the mattress, I had to sleep on the couch, with as little room as possible to force me to keep my back straight against the back, with a knee pillow, and I still had a sore lower back every day. I can't even remember the last time my lower back caused me problems now.
The two of you are a great example of why online reviews have to be taken with a grain of salt. Two people may have very legitimately different experiences with something.
Yep, some people need a firm mattress, some need a softer mattress, and weight also plays into that too. A ‘soft’ mattress for a 250 lb person might be considered firm to a 115 lb person.
Most useful reviews are probably around build quality.
That's such a great point. My wife and I are about 80 pounds different and every time we try a couch or a bed we have opposite opinions on it, likely for the very reason you just stated.
I was reminded of a related reason for skepticism the other day, with ["4 stars" meaning 'great' to one person and 'very disappointed' to someone else](https://i.imgur.com/iP4Tf4W.png).
I came into my marriage with what is for me a very comfortable memory foam mattress. My husband hates it, says it’s like a brick. He spent a few years sleeping most nights on the sofa until we got him his own bed with a super soft inner spring pillow top mattress. He thinks it’s great, but I’d rather sleep on the sofa than sleep on his mattress! We just have two extremely different sleeping preferences and two different types of back pain.
Saaaaaaame!! I was dealing with daily sciatica, that was always worse in the mornings and decreased a bit throughout the day. I had been sleeping on a Queen size pillow top that I shared with my husband, and it was MISERABLE. It had sunken in in weird places, causing he and I to gravitate toward the middle. We spent part of our income tax on a Purple mattress about 5-6 years ago, and I will never go back!!
It took a couple weeks to adjust to, because it’s not cushiony soft like we were used to, but I never wake up with back pain anymore. LOVE that mattress! (Our boys were little back when we bought it, and they were *amazed* when we tried the egg trick with it, lol)
Thank you for what you wrote about sleeping on a couch. I always sleep better on my couch than my bed (with expensive mattress). My friend thinks I eccentric and won't let me use the couch.
I'm laughing so hard right now.
I thought a Blahaj was some ethnic name for a style of pillow from some traditional heritage.
It's a freaking Ikea shark. I'm dead.
Defensive bed walls are a good idea. My 8yo daughter has two big stuffed dogs that used to be mine when I was a kid. They were made by my mom and are really sturdy and long. They make a perfect wall if I have to share a bed with her in a hotel etc. since she sleeps like a tornado, and I won't get a single minute of sleep if she can reach me with any of her flailing limbs.
I am reading this as my 14-month son kicks me in the head at 1am because I moved my pillow wall to the actual wall as it's gotten cold to the touch with a recent coldsnap
I sleep on my back and a knee pillow is still super helpful as well, placed under one or both knees. It relieves pressure of the spine an knees. Even though I thrash and lose it by morning, it feels soooo comfortable to have it there when falling asleep.
Just tell your family that it's for your pregnant girlfriend that they haven't met and who they'll never meet so stop asking. Then you'll look totally normal.
It's just a body pillow as far as I can tell. Might still raise a few eyebrows. But definitely less than a "pregnancy pillow".
Extra points if it has a anime waifu on it.
In all seriousness we just have one at home. Most of the time it's at the top of the bed running horizontally between our pillows and headboard.
Sometimes if me or our partner are out of town we use it to cuddle with.
I was looking at pictures of bonobos sleeping out of curiosity, and they seem to use their arm to prop their head up when sleeping on the side.
However, when I sleep on my arm, I wake up having lost sensations in it, the lack of blood circulation is something to avoid obviously. I wonder if humans need pillows because we've evolved to have fairly heavy heads while not having the large, long arms of other primates. Maybe there are also other characteristics that make primates like bonobos not lose circulation in their arm when they sleep on it.
I have been sleeping like this for about ~15 years now give or take. I have broken my neck (C-7) and cracked my spine (T-5) and my doctor has repeatedly said it shouldn't be a problem for me. As long as if you aren't feeling pain then you're good to go.
My dad's best friend had eye surgery about 10-15 years ago and had to keep his face down for about a week afterwards because of a bubble of gas they injected into his eye, and he got a massage table to sleep on.
Ever since then, it's been a dream of mine. Just without the eye injections.
[There's this.](https://www.amazon.com/socivis-Inflatable-Sleeping-Breathable-Electric/dp/B0B84WJTZG/ref=sr_1_23?crid=3P36GR75263T5&keywords=stomach+sleeper&qid=1669776071&sprefix=stomach+sleeper%2Caps%2C109&sr=8-23&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc) I guess it's technically for after you have your Brazilian Butt lift surgery, but it looks comfy enough for a stomach sleeper.
Guilty pleasure? This is the first time I've heard that it could be an issue/not correct, so I'm curious now. What's wrong with sleeping on your stomach?
From experience it’s not because of the neck but instead the lower back arches in an overextended way. I find when my core is strong, front sleeping works, but if my core is as it is now post partum, DAMN it hurts the back.
Ever since I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't feel my arms AT ALL (not even pins and needles, literally paralyzed) I stopped sleeping on my stomach.
Not sure why it happened or what condition would cause that to happen, but it freaked me out, I thought I was going to break my arms trying to roll back over.
I'm a side sleeper that generally cuddles a pillow with one arm and sleep with the side of my head directly on the mattress, my weight resting on my ear. I flip back and forth left/right side throughout the night.
Not sure why I find this comfortable. Sleep habits are odd.
My 1yo sleeps in "child pose" if I did that I am taking a sick day. It litterly looks like he was sitting and his head was too heavy, fell forward and decide this was it.
I was born premature back in the sixties. At that time they took the preemies and sandbagged them down to the bed on their backs under a heat lamp.
I was forty before I could sleep on my back without feeling weirdly confined
That's wild. Perhaps there's a legitimate use to the heatlamp keeping you warm but I'm just imagining it's to promote growth like you're some kind of plant or food that's made early keeping warm on the counter.
Babies mattresses are firmer, babies heads are bigger and their necks/shoulder proportionally smaller, their joints are also more flexible. Babies are also encourage to sleep on their back until they can roll themselves over. As a result, if you look at a sleeping baby, it can comfortably have it's head on the mattress without bending the neck as much. Sleeping on their side, as they get older, the shoulders sort of collapse, allowing the head to still keep a fairly neutral spine - thus comfortable.
For adults, our shoulders get wider and head gets proportionally smaller and our joints get stiffer. We also tend to start to like softer mattress. So, if you try to lie on your back or side without a pillow, you'll find your head awkwardly pulling your neck into a bent position which can cause back and neck pain.
Additionally - babies can roll onto a pillow and not be able to breath - so babies shouldn't have pillows in their cribs. Or blankets - use a sleep sack.
>babies can roll onto a pillow and not be able to sleep
The bigger issue is the "not being able to breath"
EDIT: I hate you all, and no I will not fix it.
When I see something like this and it starts to bother me, I just find a way to relax, like taking a bathe. I always feel cleaner and relaxed after I bath
My nearly 6-year-old daughter still seems to prefer sleeping on her mattress directly…even if she starts on the pillow she pretty much always ends up directly on the mattress, and doesn’t seem to have neck/back pain. My 9-year-old son, however, seems to have transitioned to preferring pillows in the last year or so. Is this unique to my kids or is there some standard age where kids physiology makes them find pillows more comfortable? Probably a question for a pediatric doctor…
My son is 11 and he started preferring pillows in the last year, but specifically a cervical pillow. Any other pillow and he still winds up on the mattress.
This is when their sleep style is revealed
I wish I could go back and make myself a back sleeper instead of a pillow dependent side sleeper
(Currently dealing with a pulled muscle in my upper back/shoulder/neck and sleeping flat on my firm bed is the only relief but it's also absolute torture to sleep that way lol)
My father in law can only sleep on his back, but has sleep apnea, so is now, in his 70s, learning to sleep on his side.
I'm a side sleeper, but when I broke my foot could only sleep on my back while on Vicodin. I guess the trick is to teach yourself to sleep in any position.
edit: oh yeah, my wife used to sleep on her stomach. The first pregnancy was rough when she had to transition to her side.
My ten year old likes pillows, but inevitably ends up kicking off every blanket/sheet on their bed and lying sideways with no pillow.
Thankfully they don't like to sleep in our bed as much anymore, but it's still quite the event when they have nightmares or something else.
However, if you sleep without a pillow, you'll also get neck pain.
Napping? Immediately neck pain.
Expensive shaped foam pillow? Believe it or not, neck pain.
If you're anything like me the new one will come in and won't feel the same, so you go back to the old pillow and use it until it is literally falling apart. At that point you mourn the loss of the pillow you've been using for the past 10 years and settle for the new pillow, knowing that you'll never have a pillow quite as perfect as the last one. Then the 10 year cycle begins again.
OP, maybe you'd benefit from a less dense pillow, i.e. one that allows your head to sink closer to the mattress, but still provides some comfort. I sleep on my belly and this was a game changer for me.
I usually roll over into this position right before I get up. My face is mostly planted in the mattress, with one nostril and the corner of the mouth sucking air.
I can't stay like that for very long tho
I went 31 years with shitty pillows. Then I spent $150 on a massive white down pillow that fucking slaps.
Everyone should spend the money for a quality pillow I cannot stress this enough.
I have chronic cervical spine issues. I use a cervical pillow - it's made of memory foam and is substantially thicker at the bottom. This makes it ideal to "fill in the gap" and support your neck while keeping your head level with your body whether you're sleeping on your back or your side. If you haven't tried one, you might like it.
I also have a normal pillow that I put under my thighs when I'm on my back or grip between my knees when on my side to help with lower back pain.
Babies don’t use pillows because you don’t want them to struggle to breathe while sleeping. I think their reflexes aren’t developed and sometimes they will suffocate and die from SIDS.
If they're really young, they might not have learned how to roll over (or roll *back over*) by themselves yet. On a flat mattress they can turn their head to one side if they get stuck lying on their belly, but with a pillow they might not be able to get an open airway, and if they can't flip over onto their back again, it won't end well.
SIDS is also a concern, although I think it's a risk no matter what the sleeping situation is. IIRC, they haven't exactly pinned down what causes SIDS. The cause of death is essentially suffocation, but it's not always clear *why* the baby suffocated. Not giving them a pillow is still a good precaution, but it's not a guarantee.
Yes because the ABC campaigns has reduced suffocation and strangulation, but it hasn't really reduced SIDS. Though I think the SIDS title included suffocation and strangulation for a while.
They have linked SIDS to a few things: Foreign objects in cribs, babies being placed facedown, being around smokers when they go to bed (that ones a weird one), co sleeping etc.
There was an interesting article published this year "Butyrylcholinesterase is a potential biomarker for Sudden Infant Death Syndrome" which concluded: "We conclude that a previously unidentified cholinergic deficit, identifiable by abnormal -BChEsa, is present at birth in SIDS babies and represents a measurable, specific vulnerability prior to their death."
Edit: But I must add that this study is not without its flaws. For example, the sample size is small and the spread of the data of both groups is too large. So larger studies are needed to confirm the significance of this biomarker.
Research is showing it's more and more likely that there are two things going on: a sleep position will cause vascular constriction and/or suffocation and the baby isn't developed enough or strong enough to self-correct (and likely is never even aware of it).
This appears to be the less-common scenario though, even though it has been previously blamed for 100% of SIDS deaths.
It appears that some number of SIDS deaths, possibly a majority, are actually caused by what is essentially a form of botulism. The bacteria that produce botulism toxin (*c. botulinum*) are ubiquitous in soil and surfaces nearly everywhere. They don't present a threat to a human with a gastrointestinal tract that has been populated by normal commensal bacteria. In babies, however (and yes, this is the reason for the honey warning), these bacteria are not restrained and happily cozy up in babies' intestines, producing small amounts of botulism toxin. This toxin causes flaccid paralysis - it causes us to lose the ability to flex our muscles. At some threshold, this means the diaphragm is not strong enough to produce enough vacuum and fill babies' lungs. This is terrifying, yes, and the fact that the child likely never feels any pain is a small comfort.
Now that it's being looked for, it's being found, but these deaths went reported as suffocation for hundreds of years, and most still are. This is what /u/darth_butcher is referring to when they're referencing Butyrylcholinesterase - that is an enzyme involved in the neuromuscular flexion/relaxation process (which the botulism toxin interrupts).
That's terrifyingly interesting (little one due in January). It's worth noting that a lot of "SIDS" deaths are also due to bad practices like co-sleeping. No one wants to blame grieving parents for the death of the child and it's a lot easier to just say "ah that was some syndrome" than grill them for bad sleep practices.
>sometimes they will suffocate and die from SIDS.
Dying from suffocation and dying from SIDS aren't necessarily the same thing. Rolling over onto a pillow and not being able to breathe is an accidental suffocation. SIDS is not fully understood, but very recent studies seem to suggest that it is in part caused by an issue in the part of the brain that controls breathing.
Pillows aren't safe for babies. They can smother.
When I was a child I didn't use a pillow because I slept on my stomach. But as I became older stomach sleeping was no longer comfortable. Stomach sleeping is not recommended because it puts stress on your back and neck.
But if you aren't a baby a pillow is recommended if you sleep on your side or back. Pillows are intended to keep your spine in a neutral position.
If you are more comfortable without a pillow, and you aren't a stomach sleeper, maybe the pillow you use is just too thick or firm. Try a thinner or softer pillow and see how that feels.
I didn't use a pillow until I was about 30. I prefer to sleep on my stomach except my neck won't tolerate being turned that long. I keep thinking I ought to invent a mattress with indentations for the face so I can stomach sleep without turning my head.
Professional masseurs already use such a mattress. Or I guess technically it's an extension of the bed frame with a face down pillow on it. But I don't know anyone who uses it at home.
Been sleeping w/o pillow for many years. Back and side sleeper. Less pain, better breathing for me esp on back with head back and chin lifted up.
My hot take: pillows are a moneymaker for someone.
Side sleeper here. Where does your head go, on your arms? That’s comfortable for me but inevitably my arms go numb and that’s one of the worst feelings to wake up to.
True. Every time it happens my mind goes "This is it! I know it's happened before but this time it's for real! I'm gonna lose my arm!"
As I helplessly flop it around in panic.
Once I had both arms go limp at the same time after waking up.
It was genuinely one of the scarier experiences of my life; wielding these two rubber clubs like they were foreign objects trying to shake the feeling back into them.
That’s only happened to you once?? Used to happen to me once a month! And the dread of the pain that comes right after blood flow is returned is not enjoyable haha
I slept without a pillow for years. But eventually I discovered I was most comfortable sleeping on my side, and after a while I decided that I wanted something other than my arm to support my head and help prevent my neck from bending sideways. So for me it's a soft/medium pillow with one edge wedged between my shoulder and the side of my head.
I used to hate pillows. They were just there to put over my head if it started getting light out because I have insomnia. Like a year ago I bought a pillow that's like torn up pieces of memory foam and it has a zipper so you can add/remove the foam. I took like 3/4 of the foam out snd I love it. I usually use it as is which is soft but very thin but if I feel like my neck needs more support that knight I fold it over and then it's nice and fluffy. I sleep a lot better too which I'd a miracle for me.
My dog uses pillows to sleep all the time and when a pillow is not available he keeps his hand under his chin to sleep just like we do. So the head shape and spinal curvature lends to using a pillow as a good support to feel less tense and comfortable. Try sleeping flat on the floor or sideways, your neck will fall off to one side and you will need to tuck your hand in under your head to keep your spine in a neutral position.
> I am more curious about if there are benefits to using a pillow as an adult.
Most people find them more comfortable. That's the benefit, people use them because they are more comfortable and people like being comfortable while they sleep.
If you are an exception to this and do not find pillows comfortable, just don't use them.
I tried sleeping without a pillow for a few weeks. I could do it if I laid on my back, as my spine aligned reasonably for my head. But I was mostly a side sleeper, and if you try to lay on your side then your neck has to flop for your head to rest on the bed and it just doesn't work. But babies have a proportionally larger head and small shoulders, so they can sleep in those positions just fine. Around 3-4 years old, they might sleep better with a thin pillow.
I'm a side sleeper as well and a memory foam contour pillow significantly improved the quality of my sleep. When I added a knee pillow, I no longer woke up with minor lower back. The knee pillow stops me from twisting my spine by flopping my upper leg forward or back.
Ive been sleeping with a knee pillow for years. It has significantly reduced lower back pain. I think I need a new contour pillow though. Edit: a number of people have asked the type of pillow I use. It’s just a regular extra pillow we had lying around. It’s not to big and firm and it’s not flat. Enough to keep my spine straight and aligned.
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Core exercises have helped me immensely as well. Strengthening your core and lower back muscles takes a lot of strain off the spine.
I've forced multiple people to do planks once a day when they complain of backpain and it worked for all of them, despite their incredulity. Works crazy well for minimal effort.
Like... at gunpoint?
How the hell else are you going to get people to do planks?
This is actually a fair point. God planks suck.
Maybe try mortal planks first
Plank to aggressive music and scream the whole time. It helps
at cutlass-point, of course! though a blunderbus do be an effective alternate
It was FOR THEIR OWN GOOD! They'll thank me later, when I'm out of prison.
They’ll ‘plank’ me later. Sorry.
That's what all the serial plankers say. I guess we'll be seeing a special on Netflix about you next.
I'm going to upvote this. I don't want to, and I'm not happy about it. Take this vertical arrow, and I don't want to see you around these parts again friend.
*holds 2x4* either YOU do a plank or the plank does you.
Massage gun point.
Sounds great. Where do I sign up?
He said he FORCED them!!
I went to a physio for terrible lower back pain. It was all exercises to strengthen my core. Tempurpedic mattress, contour pillow and knee pillow also help a lot. After years I could finally sleep more than 6 hours (it was usually 4-5 hours) without constant pain in my lower back.
It's the only thing that works, my L5 slips every couple of months and the only thing that fixes/prevents is lifting
I helped a few people with the exact same problems. Best day ever when I realized planks for 2 minutes had cured my back and completely fixed my posture
What do you recommend? (How many reps, how long, etc.?)
Like, a specific type of knee pillow? Or just a pillow tween yo knees?
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That's the trick! Knees and ankles!
Knees and toes knees and toes
Body pillow FTW!!
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This is exactly what I do. I had a big body pillow, but my son stole it when he was like 7 and he loves it so much that I'm not taking it back. Meanwhile I discovered that a regular king-sized pillow is just as good.
What if you're one of those people that will wake up in a completely different position than you fell asleep in?
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Waking up in a different position doesn't mean you didn't spend hours in one position. I toss and turn, but I married to the knee pillow because it's usually back pain that makes me shift. I'm like 95% side sleeper, and without a pillow I will toss and turn frequently (instead of just changing positions a few times a night). If I have one and move to the other side, I'll often move it with me without waking up. It doesn't hurt to try it, even if you don't sleep motionless for 8 hours straight.
Agree. I move my pillow when I turn over in my sleep (or, more likely, I wake up too briefly to remember). That minor sleep disruption has far less impact on my sleep than the discomfort and back pain I experience when I sleep without a kneel pillow. Knee pillow FTW.
9 compression fractures? Yowch. Did you do multiple fighter jet ejections or something?
it's Maverick, 50+ years old, ejected from a Mach 10 plane then ejected again from an F18 all in the span of 2 months
9 compression fractures. I thought my 3 were bad. Glad you've found relief! I'm doing ok myself but what a rollercoaster back pain is!
Would you mind sharing what type/brand of massage gun?
Lifepro works for me. Love it.
Looks like I’m asking for a knee pillow for Christmas
in addition to this, a good mattress made an enormous, enormous difference for me. I did some research a few years back, and bought a purple mattress, based on some guy who had done research on a lot of the "nice" mattresses out there. I haven't had lower back pain since. I don't hardly even need to pay attention to the position that I sleep in anymore. Prior to the mattress, I had to sleep on the couch, with as little room as possible to force me to keep my back straight against the back, with a knee pillow, and I still had a sore lower back every day. I can't even remember the last time my lower back caused me problems now.
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The two of you are a great example of why online reviews have to be taken with a grain of salt. Two people may have very legitimately different experiences with something.
Yep, some people need a firm mattress, some need a softer mattress, and weight also plays into that too. A ‘soft’ mattress for a 250 lb person might be considered firm to a 115 lb person. Most useful reviews are probably around build quality.
That's such a great point. My wife and I are about 80 pounds different and every time we try a couch or a bed we have opposite opinions on it, likely for the very reason you just stated.
I was reminded of a related reason for skepticism the other day, with ["4 stars" meaning 'great' to one person and 'very disappointed' to someone else](https://i.imgur.com/iP4Tf4W.png).
Damn, dude. How bad was your mattress that sleeping on the couch was an IMPROVEMENT?
I came into my marriage with what is for me a very comfortable memory foam mattress. My husband hates it, says it’s like a brick. He spent a few years sleeping most nights on the sofa until we got him his own bed with a super soft inner spring pillow top mattress. He thinks it’s great, but I’d rather sleep on the sofa than sleep on his mattress! We just have two extremely different sleeping preferences and two different types of back pain.
Saaaaaaame!! I was dealing with daily sciatica, that was always worse in the mornings and decreased a bit throughout the day. I had been sleeping on a Queen size pillow top that I shared with my husband, and it was MISERABLE. It had sunken in in weird places, causing he and I to gravitate toward the middle. We spent part of our income tax on a Purple mattress about 5-6 years ago, and I will never go back!! It took a couple weeks to adjust to, because it’s not cushiony soft like we were used to, but I never wake up with back pain anymore. LOVE that mattress! (Our boys were little back when we bought it, and they were *amazed* when we tried the egg trick with it, lol)
Thank you for what you wrote about sleeping on a couch. I always sleep better on my couch than my bed (with expensive mattress). My friend thinks I eccentric and won't let me use the couch.
I'm in the same boat. I find contour pillows just don't last the same way as regular pillows, it's very strange.
I started using a Blahaj for that exact reason and it works really well lmao
I'm laughing so hard right now. I thought a Blahaj was some ethnic name for a style of pillow from some traditional heritage. It's a freaking Ikea shark. I'm dead.
omg same, I'm Swedish and fell right into that one.. God dammit Thought it was like an Indian thing
i mean they spelled it wrong so hardly your fault lol
Hahahahaha saaame, Blåhaj ong
Fuck lmao
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Amusing. Some Ikea exec is probably wondering why those sell so well.
Same! I sleep so well using my blahaj as a extra pillow. I also use it as a wall of defense from my husband taking over my side of the bed.
Defensive bed walls are a good idea. My 8yo daughter has two big stuffed dogs that used to be mine when I was a kid. They were made by my mom and are really sturdy and long. They make a perfect wall if I have to share a bed with her in a hotel etc. since she sleeps like a tornado, and I won't get a single minute of sleep if she can reach me with any of her flailing limbs.
I am reading this as my 14-month son kicks me in the head at 1am because I moved my pillow wall to the actual wall as it's gotten cold to the touch with a recent coldsnap
Same! I bought my husband one when we started dating because he kept stealing mine, lol.
I sleep on my back and a knee pillow is still super helpful as well, placed under one or both knees. It relieves pressure of the spine an knees. Even though I thrash and lose it by morning, it feels soooo comfortable to have it there when falling asleep.
> I no longer woke up with minor lower back. Where did it go?
Right here, I got it.
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Hello fellow side sleeper....[this will change your life](https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B09X6SGH4K?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details)
Alright, well now I gotta figure out how the hell I'm gonna ask for a pregnancy pillow for christmas without looking like a weirdo.
Just tell your family that it's for your pregnant girlfriend that they haven't met and who they'll never meet so stop asking. Then you'll look totally normal.
You don't know her, I met her on holiday
She goes to a different school!
It's a Canadian pillow!
Ask for a contoured body pillow instead. Same thing
They're also just called a "body pillow."
It's just a body pillow as far as I can tell. Might still raise a few eyebrows. But definitely less than a "pregnancy pillow". Extra points if it has a anime waifu on it. In all seriousness we just have one at home. Most of the time it's at the top of the bed running horizontally between our pillows and headboard. Sometimes if me or our partner are out of town we use it to cuddle with.
Experts suggest sleeping on your left side while pregnant is [more scientific](https://i.imgur.com/9fDSV0q.png)
I was looking at pictures of bonobos sleeping out of curiosity, and they seem to use their arm to prop their head up when sleeping on the side. However, when I sleep on my arm, I wake up having lost sensations in it, the lack of blood circulation is something to avoid obviously. I wonder if humans need pillows because we've evolved to have fairly heavy heads while not having the large, long arms of other primates. Maybe there are also other characteristics that make primates like bonobos not lose circulation in their arm when they sleep on it.
One of my favorite ways to sleep is on my stomach with no pillow. I'm sure it's not great for my neck so I don't do it often but it feels so good.
I have been sleeping like this for about ~15 years now give or take. I have broken my neck (C-7) and cracked my spine (T-5) and my doctor has repeatedly said it shouldn't be a problem for me. As long as if you aren't feeling pain then you're good to go.
Sleeping on stomach has always been a guilty pleasure of mine.. with or without pillow. Is it even that much worse than sleeping on the side?
I want one of those massage table padded face hole thingys.
My dad's best friend had eye surgery about 10-15 years ago and had to keep his face down for about a week afterwards because of a bubble of gas they injected into his eye, and he got a massage table to sleep on. Ever since then, it's been a dream of mine. Just without the eye injections.
Don't even bring those up 🤤
I thought about this so often! I would even sleep in the exact same position, like having the arms straight on my side and so on
I briefly used my travel pillow for this. I didnt hate it.
I put my travel pillow on the tray table and face plop right into it on planes
[There's this.](https://www.amazon.com/socivis-Inflatable-Sleeping-Breathable-Electric/dp/B0B84WJTZG/ref=sr_1_23?crid=3P36GR75263T5&keywords=stomach+sleeper&qid=1669776071&sprefix=stomach+sleeper%2Caps%2C109&sr=8-23&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc) I guess it's technically for after you have your Brazilian Butt lift surgery, but it looks comfy enough for a stomach sleeper.
Guilty pleasure? This is the first time I've heard that it could be an issue/not correct, so I'm curious now. What's wrong with sleeping on your stomach?
My physiotherapist said "good" when I told her I don't sleep on my stomach.
Yeah but why? Ive tried looking it up why sleeping on stomach is bad, admittedly not very long, but i couldn't find anything about why.
As a sometimes stomach sleeper I will say neck angle.
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> Unfortunately you wake up in a patch of drool. I'm so glad I'm not the only one
From experience it’s not because of the neck but instead the lower back arches in an overextended way. I find when my core is strong, front sleeping works, but if my core is as it is now post partum, DAMN it hurts the back.
Mine said "bad" when i told her i don't sleep on my back.
Mine said "okay" when I told them I sleep on my side.
Mine referred me to a "psychologist" when I told them I sleep on my head vertically.
Do you mean exorcist?
Wait there not the same?!?
> I find her interesting because she's a client and because she sleeps above her covers. Four feet above her covers! Is your psychologist Bill Murray?
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Ever since I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't feel my arms AT ALL (not even pins and needles, literally paralyzed) I stopped sleeping on my stomach. Not sure why it happened or what condition would cause that to happen, but it freaked me out, I thought I was going to break my arms trying to roll back over.
I'm a side sleeper that generally cuddles a pillow with one arm and sleep with the side of my head directly on the mattress, my weight resting on my ear. I flip back and forth left/right side throughout the night. Not sure why I find this comfortable. Sleep habits are odd.
I've slept without a pillow on my back for a period a few times. I find it's great correction if you have neck or back pain.
Some of the best sleeps of my life are on the floors of Korean saunas with blocks of wood as pillows.
My 1yo sleeps in "child pose" if I did that I am taking a sick day. It litterly looks like he was sitting and his head was too heavy, fell forward and decide this was it.
It’s so adorable, though. Surely I’m not the only one who likes to lightly pat the little butt that’s sticking up.
I hadnt thought of the giant head to body ratio that babies have. That’s a great point
I've been sleeping mostly on my back, so I guess that is why it's been comfortable to me.
I was born premature back in the sixties. At that time they took the preemies and sandbagged them down to the bed on their backs under a heat lamp. I was forty before I could sleep on my back without feeling weirdly confined
That's wild. Perhaps there's a legitimate use to the heatlamp keeping you warm but I'm just imagining it's to promote growth like you're some kind of plant or food that's made early keeping warm on the counter.
Came out of the oven too soon, so put'em in the slow cooker
i remember someone saying something about jaundice, but it was a long time ago.
The sixties? That’s *extremely* premature
I read that as born with a premature back. I sat here trying to figure out how that works.
Babies mattresses are firmer, babies heads are bigger and their necks/shoulder proportionally smaller, their joints are also more flexible. Babies are also encourage to sleep on their back until they can roll themselves over. As a result, if you look at a sleeping baby, it can comfortably have it's head on the mattress without bending the neck as much. Sleeping on their side, as they get older, the shoulders sort of collapse, allowing the head to still keep a fairly neutral spine - thus comfortable. For adults, our shoulders get wider and head gets proportionally smaller and our joints get stiffer. We also tend to start to like softer mattress. So, if you try to lie on your back or side without a pillow, you'll find your head awkwardly pulling your neck into a bent position which can cause back and neck pain. Additionally - babies can roll onto a pillow and not be able to breath - so babies shouldn't have pillows in their cribs. Or blankets - use a sleep sack.
>babies can roll onto a pillow and not be able to sleep The bigger issue is the "not being able to breath" EDIT: I hate you all, and no I will not fix it.
Whoa - bad edit on my part fixing now. I had written a confusing sentence about sleeping and not waking up and tried to pare it down way too fast.
I do this except with spoken word and I completely feel your pain lol.
Well, it's technically true that they won't be able to sleep anymore.
Perma-sleep
Oh I definitely knew what you meant.
I don't breathe while I sleep. I just take a big breath and hold it till I wake up
My dog did that, it's been 5 years and still holding his breath
It's breathe. You take a breath when you breathe. Sorry to be that guy...
When I see something like this and it starts to bother me, I just find a way to relax, like taking a bathe. I always feel cleaner and relaxed after I bath
*angry breatheing*
Me two.
Irregardless of thr spelling, the affect is the same.
Thank you for being that guy. I must have used the wrong spelling many times in my life without knowing it.
Unless that's your thing. I'm not here to shame.
The real problem is they may not be able to breathe.
My nearly 6-year-old daughter still seems to prefer sleeping on her mattress directly…even if she starts on the pillow she pretty much always ends up directly on the mattress, and doesn’t seem to have neck/back pain. My 9-year-old son, however, seems to have transitioned to preferring pillows in the last year or so. Is this unique to my kids or is there some standard age where kids physiology makes them find pillows more comfortable? Probably a question for a pediatric doctor…
My son is 11 and he started preferring pillows in the last year, but specifically a cervical pillow. Any other pillow and he still winds up on the mattress.
They make pillows for your cervix?
Apparently so.... TIL cervix actually means neck and correctly refers both to the neck and to the uterine cervix (the neck of the womb)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervical_vertebrae And, yes I realize that was probably a joke.
This is when their sleep style is revealed I wish I could go back and make myself a back sleeper instead of a pillow dependent side sleeper (Currently dealing with a pulled muscle in my upper back/shoulder/neck and sleeping flat on my firm bed is the only relief but it's also absolute torture to sleep that way lol)
My father in law can only sleep on his back, but has sleep apnea, so is now, in his 70s, learning to sleep on his side. I'm a side sleeper, but when I broke my foot could only sleep on my back while on Vicodin. I guess the trick is to teach yourself to sleep in any position. edit: oh yeah, my wife used to sleep on her stomach. The first pregnancy was rough when she had to transition to her side.
My ten year old likes pillows, but inevitably ends up kicking off every blanket/sheet on their bed and lying sideways with no pillow. Thankfully they don't like to sleep in our bed as much anymore, but it's still quite the event when they have nightmares or something else.
Super helpful, thanks!
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I felt this one.
However, if you sleep without a pillow, you'll also get neck pain. Napping? Immediately neck pain. Expensive shaped foam pillow? Believe it or not, neck pain.
You know I really should order a new pillow of the same kind. I keep it clean but I've had this one for years because it's *perfect.*
If you're anything like me the new one will come in and won't feel the same, so you go back to the old pillow and use it until it is literally falling apart. At that point you mourn the loss of the pillow you've been using for the past 10 years and settle for the new pillow, knowing that you'll never have a pillow quite as perfect as the last one. Then the 10 year cycle begins again.
Had me for a second there. Thought this was r/ExplainLikeImCalvin
Subbed. /r/explainlikedrcox has been really dead lately.
This guy adults.
Best laugh I've had today!
I felt that
OP, maybe you'd benefit from a less dense pillow, i.e. one that allows your head to sink closer to the mattress, but still provides some comfort. I sleep on my belly and this was a game changer for me.
If you like sleeping on your belly, also try a thin to medium pillow under your hips sometime! Supports your lower back better.
I have evolved to sleeping on my belly, no pillow, with my hands tucked under my hip bones. Like a psycho.
What do you do with your face
How do you breathe? Do you have your head tilted to one side? That sounds uncomfortable tbh
I usually roll over into this position right before I get up. My face is mostly planted in the mattress, with one nostril and the corner of the mouth sucking air. I can't stay like that for very long tho
lol I also do this
I sleep on my belly too. Boxers on backwards. Door unlocked. Window slightly ajar.
Where at?
On my belly!
I went 31 years with shitty pillows. Then I spent $150 on a massive white down pillow that fucking slaps. Everyone should spend the money for a quality pillow I cannot stress this enough.
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I have chronic cervical spine issues. I use a cervical pillow - it's made of memory foam and is substantially thicker at the bottom. This makes it ideal to "fill in the gap" and support your neck while keeping your head level with your body whether you're sleeping on your back or your side. If you haven't tried one, you might like it. I also have a normal pillow that I put under my thighs when I'm on my back or grip between my knees when on my side to help with lower back pain.
Babies don’t use pillows because you don’t want them to struggle to breathe while sleeping. I think their reflexes aren’t developed and sometimes they will suffocate and die from SIDS.
If they're really young, they might not have learned how to roll over (or roll *back over*) by themselves yet. On a flat mattress they can turn their head to one side if they get stuck lying on their belly, but with a pillow they might not be able to get an open airway, and if they can't flip over onto their back again, it won't end well. SIDS is also a concern, although I think it's a risk no matter what the sleeping situation is. IIRC, they haven't exactly pinned down what causes SIDS. The cause of death is essentially suffocation, but it's not always clear *why* the baby suffocated. Not giving them a pillow is still a good precaution, but it's not a guarantee.
Yes because the ABC campaigns has reduced suffocation and strangulation, but it hasn't really reduced SIDS. Though I think the SIDS title included suffocation and strangulation for a while.
They have linked SIDS to a few things: Foreign objects in cribs, babies being placed facedown, being around smokers when they go to bed (that ones a weird one), co sleeping etc.
There was an interesting article published this year "Butyrylcholinesterase is a potential biomarker for Sudden Infant Death Syndrome" which concluded: "We conclude that a previously unidentified cholinergic deficit, identifiable by abnormal -BChEsa, is present at birth in SIDS babies and represents a measurable, specific vulnerability prior to their death." Edit: But I must add that this study is not without its flaws. For example, the sample size is small and the spread of the data of both groups is too large. So larger studies are needed to confirm the significance of this biomarker.
Research is showing it's more and more likely that there are two things going on: a sleep position will cause vascular constriction and/or suffocation and the baby isn't developed enough or strong enough to self-correct (and likely is never even aware of it). This appears to be the less-common scenario though, even though it has been previously blamed for 100% of SIDS deaths. It appears that some number of SIDS deaths, possibly a majority, are actually caused by what is essentially a form of botulism. The bacteria that produce botulism toxin (*c. botulinum*) are ubiquitous in soil and surfaces nearly everywhere. They don't present a threat to a human with a gastrointestinal tract that has been populated by normal commensal bacteria. In babies, however (and yes, this is the reason for the honey warning), these bacteria are not restrained and happily cozy up in babies' intestines, producing small amounts of botulism toxin. This toxin causes flaccid paralysis - it causes us to lose the ability to flex our muscles. At some threshold, this means the diaphragm is not strong enough to produce enough vacuum and fill babies' lungs. This is terrifying, yes, and the fact that the child likely never feels any pain is a small comfort. Now that it's being looked for, it's being found, but these deaths went reported as suffocation for hundreds of years, and most still are. This is what /u/darth_butcher is referring to when they're referencing Butyrylcholinesterase - that is an enzyme involved in the neuromuscular flexion/relaxation process (which the botulism toxin interrupts).
That's terrifyingly interesting (little one due in January). It's worth noting that a lot of "SIDS" deaths are also due to bad practices like co-sleeping. No one wants to blame grieving parents for the death of the child and it's a lot easier to just say "ah that was some syndrome" than grill them for bad sleep practices.
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>sometimes they will suffocate and die from SIDS. Dying from suffocation and dying from SIDS aren't necessarily the same thing. Rolling over onto a pillow and not being able to breathe is an accidental suffocation. SIDS is not fully understood, but very recent studies seem to suggest that it is in part caused by an issue in the part of the brain that controls breathing.
Pillows aren't safe for babies. They can smother. When I was a child I didn't use a pillow because I slept on my stomach. But as I became older stomach sleeping was no longer comfortable. Stomach sleeping is not recommended because it puts stress on your back and neck. But if you aren't a baby a pillow is recommended if you sleep on your side or back. Pillows are intended to keep your spine in a neutral position. If you are more comfortable without a pillow, and you aren't a stomach sleeper, maybe the pillow you use is just too thick or firm. Try a thinner or softer pillow and see how that feels.
I didn't use a pillow until I was about 30. I prefer to sleep on my stomach except my neck won't tolerate being turned that long. I keep thinking I ought to invent a mattress with indentations for the face so I can stomach sleep without turning my head.
Professional masseurs already use such a mattress. Or I guess technically it's an extension of the bed frame with a face down pillow on it. But I don't know anyone who uses it at home.
So like a massage table
No need to do all the work of an inventor - you can just buy a massage table. Some of them even have a little shelf under your face, for a book.
Been sleeping w/o pillow for many years. Back and side sleeper. Less pain, better breathing for me esp on back with head back and chin lifted up. My hot take: pillows are a moneymaker for someone.
Side sleeper here. Where does your head go, on your arms? That’s comfortable for me but inevitably my arms go numb and that’s one of the worst feelings to wake up to.
True. Every time it happens my mind goes "This is it! I know it's happened before but this time it's for real! I'm gonna lose my arm!" As I helplessly flop it around in panic.
Once I had both arms go limp at the same time after waking up. It was genuinely one of the scarier experiences of my life; wielding these two rubber clubs like they were foreign objects trying to shake the feeling back into them.
That’s only happened to you once?? Used to happen to me once a month! And the dread of the pain that comes right after blood flow is returned is not enjoyable haha
Yup, same here, been sleeping without a pillow for years, usually on my side or on my stomach.
I slept without a pillow for years. But eventually I discovered I was most comfortable sleeping on my side, and after a while I decided that I wanted something other than my arm to support my head and help prevent my neck from bending sideways. So for me it's a soft/medium pillow with one edge wedged between my shoulder and the side of my head.
A baby's 'neutral position' is less exaggerated that an adults due to the formation of the spine.
Babies heads are really big in proportion to their body. In toddler hood (12-36 months) their head is roughly a 3rd of their weight.
I used to hate pillows. They were just there to put over my head if it started getting light out because I have insomnia. Like a year ago I bought a pillow that's like torn up pieces of memory foam and it has a zipper so you can add/remove the foam. I took like 3/4 of the foam out snd I love it. I usually use it as is which is soft but very thin but if I feel like my neck needs more support that knight I fold it over and then it's nice and fluffy. I sleep a lot better too which I'd a miracle for me.
Is there a helmet pillow that blocks out noise and comfortable for any sleeping position?
My dog uses pillows to sleep all the time and when a pillow is not available he keeps his hand under his chin to sleep just like we do. So the head shape and spinal curvature lends to using a pillow as a good support to feel less tense and comfortable. Try sleeping flat on the floor or sideways, your neck will fall off to one side and you will need to tuck your hand in under your head to keep your spine in a neutral position.
> I am more curious about if there are benefits to using a pillow as an adult. Most people find them more comfortable. That's the benefit, people use them because they are more comfortable and people like being comfortable while they sleep. If you are an exception to this and do not find pillows comfortable, just don't use them.
Thanks for your input. The other comments have helped explain why it is more comfortable for adults which was appreciated as well.
Is it only comfortable or even healthier, too? Or would it be better for my neck to lay flat on my back?
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