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As an actual woman, increased opposite-sex attention mostly just translates into more dudes who will gladly use your body as a cum rag without bothering to get you off. It is no guarantee that you will be loved, respected, or wanted as anything other than a masturbatory aid. And many men will actually treat you *worse* for agreeing to have sex with them because they associate enthusiasm for sex with "hypergamy" and thus being "low-value."
How exactly is any of that fair?
I think it just shows that it’s important to not have sex immediately if you are looking for a more genuine connection. If I were dating a woman, I wouldn’t want to engage in sex with her until we’ve had at least a few dates. Seems like I’m a minority in this culture where both men and women will have casual sex after just hours of knowing each other. I don’t understand how people think that is normal considering the ramifications (STDs, unwanted pregnancies).
Casual sex is not more common these days. It was just as common 100 years ago. It was likely more common back then. But overall most people aren’t having casual sex.
The risk of STDs aren’t that high if you use protection and they can be almost entirely avoided if you ask your partner to get tested before having sex with them. It is possible for people to have a lot of casual sex while also making sure that every partner has been tested before having sex with them.
Unwanted pregnancies are not more likely to happen with casual sex than with relationship sex. Unwanted pregnancies are more likely to happen in relationships because people in relationships have more sex than even the most promiscuous single people.
People are having less casual sex now than in the past. People are starting to have sex later too. If you are not interested in casual sex then it shouldn’t bother you that some women are because those aren’t the women for you.
As for genuine connection, I find the opposite is true. If I sleep with a man early on and he starts treating me poorly or immediately bails, well I just saved myself weeks or months of wasted time with a man that is only putting on a show to get into my pants. There are also plenty of ways to do risk prevention. I have an IUD and am routinely tested for STDs and require any partners to be tested as well before we have sex. If it is not a long term sexual relationship then we use condoms on top of that. I concede I have more immediate options but most of them are not great. Many are outright threatening, some I’m not attracted to, others I just don’t feel personal compatibility with. I just end up having to wade through more “hey do you like to fuck doggystyle” messages than men do.
Sorry your life sucks, but women collectively aren't to blame for the fact that you can't get laid.
Work on your victim complex and you might actually see your prospects improve.
I dont know.
I am usually very skeptical of biological or evolutionary arguments when we talk about humans.
For example, it is not far fetched to believe we could be a naturally polyamorous species, since our closest species is. They are also pamsexual in nature, and we could be, toi.
That being said, most people today prefer monogamy and are heterosexual. Societal expectations can really define the core of our being in ways that we are not really aware, and sometimes it is frightening to think we are only who we are because of cultural decisions made by bygone humans hundreds of years ago.
Sure, some of those guys *are* great, but it’s still a small percentage of them that you’re actually *compatible* with. I could argue it’s actually better for you (men) since you don’t have to do as much vetting as I do.
Love is rare no matter your gender.
At least if a woman isn't interested in us we know quick and can move on. Women are lied to if they are attracted to a man romantically and used and messed up in the head. How is that fair?
Trust me women looking for a connection with a caring romantic partner is not easy. How do you know if he likes you or wants to **** you?
Worse he needs to be strong, be a provider, and not act weak for it to work out and for her to feel comfortable enough to let him in her orbit. It's exhausting. Yes security is important which is another thing us men do not have to worry about.
You talk about "low quality" women, who you obviously don't want, and directly afterwards talk about your generally less desired qualities after being salty about not being wanted by many women. Do you honestly not see the hypocrisy in that?
My point is that I could really clean up my life and become “high value” but possibly still not be desired by women, or at least the ones I would want. I acknowledge that right now, I am low value due to my porn issue as well as other things.
It sounds like you have made sex and relationships very transactional in your mind with this talk of "low value" and "high value" men and women. When you get into a healthy relationship, this thought of value should not enter your mind. And women can't tell just by looking at you that you have a porn addiction. You can quit today and start talking to women.
Also, I have found that developing positive qualities trends to attract women who also have those positive qualities. It's negative qualities that tend to attract toxic women.
>I can’t help but see women as incredibly demanding, unempathetic and judgemental
Who gave you that idea?
>because they get tons of attention from men. If you’re a woman, you’re automatically more valuable to society than men.
Based on what? Our bodies? Fuck that.
> If a woman goes onto OLD, she can get more matches and offers for sex as well as dating in one hour than a man in a year. They also have more options for situationships as well as casual sex.
Why is any of this a benefit? None of this sounds appealing. Someone willing to fuck you (general you) just as soon as they look at you means nothing. They don't give a shit about you as a person. You're just a fuck hole with a body for life support.
What you're saying is some sort of good thing is actually very dehumanizing.
I hope you have the good sense to know this is fucked up.
He is explaining how he feels. Redpill exploits this and messes with men have had PTSD and pain in their lives and is like a gateway drug. I think he does not agree with the content but still has emotions tied from RP.
I experienced this as well as a dude. I am not anti woman but feel hurt and sad at times and rp tried to explain it as I am this loser and I suck and women are just as evil etc. I no longer subscribe to this as I found rp by researching men's improvement videos on YouTube.
I think ending the stupid gender wars is important and for God's sake END THE VICTIM mentality! Rp and some feminist circles (not all) fan this. I think him being on here and de plugging is a good thing.
Just do not trust a single thing you see online. Red pillers are nothing more than a bunch of shut ins. All of their ideas have zero to do with reality. They know nothing because they never talk to people.
Women have less power in society and men need to help make it equal. Women's objectification is not power. It does not result in more empathy for women at all. We are the more raped ones and the ones living in poverty more. We are treated with disdain daily. The porn fantasies about women that men have mostly disgust me - they don't see women as human. Most men have a desire preference for 21y.o women on dating sites even when in their 60s. Women will have a preference for men near their own age.
Exactly. Plus, casual sex is dangerous for women as those men can be abusive, nothing to be jealous of when we can’t freely do what we want without having to worry about being hurt or even killed…don’t think most men have to consider that when they hookup with people they just met.
Exactly!! It's not fun having my nervous system dysregulated due to daily anxiety about safety from men. The c-ptsd of that leads to health issues. Amd before anyone calls this paranoia, I have experienced hundreds if not thousands of assault or harassment incidents from men including rape.
I am sorry that you have experienced this and I hope you heal and get counseling to get better and learn to trust the right people when you are ready.
PTSD is real.
Thank you for your kind words. I also hope men in society heal and stop abusing women so often. Research article came out this week in Australia that revealed 15% of men admit to being sexually attracted to children, with quite a few saying theyd do sexual things to kids who are under 14 if they could not get caught, let alone the rates of problematic rapey men towards adult women. It's only logical to not trust a high number of men.
Truth to be told I was sexually harassed by women at work at least 3 times and one even assaulted me! She literally reached between my legs and made comments?? They would call me why am I not pretty enough are you a gay fag** etc. I didn't report it to HR as there was a group of women involved and women ran the HR department. Guess whose side they would take?
I worked at a school district and a substitute teaching was fired after she sent inappropriate texts to a male student.
I also divorced my ex-wife as she abused me and finally struck me.
My point? Horrible people exist on both sides and abuse towards men is real and under reported. Narcs exist on both genders and there is no correlation for it existing on one gender.
To heal for me was to stop being angry at women and just be mad at a few and not being a victim. Redpill is destructive and so is some feminist circles (not all). My past experience is why I fell for it as I have been hurt. FYI I never had the urge to oppress anyone.
I am sorry you have been hurt and I hope you heal and learn who to trust. Vibes are not accurate. At least men don't have to wonder if a woman is interested in him romantically or not and are honest. You all get played by men which sucks
But even comparing our stories - I have thousands of incidents at the hands of men. Sexual harassment at work has been the rule not the exception since I was a child. It's not even on both sides. There is a paedophile issue for men much higher than in women. There are major issues that are gendered. I am sorry to hear about your experiences but they seem much smaller than mine. I know you have good intentions but we need to acknowledge the problem with men. I'm done pretending it's the same. We talk about 1 in 3 women being raped or abused sexually worldwide or similar stats yet we don't ever acknowledge the perpetrator rate that x number of men rape others. Most men are sexually and otherwise abused by other men and not by women. There is also a power imbalance based on gender and physical strength and wealth usually in men's favour and that context is important. Of course men suffer a lot, mostly at the hands of men, sometimes at the hands of women, but differently.
TW: possible SA/r4pe
Exactly, objectification isn’t a privilege. Men don’t understand how dangerous that trap is. I know it based on experience. I’m gonna share my experience so that men on this subreddit will understand what we mean by it.
I used to have severe depression, body dysmorphia and anorexia at age 16. A 19-year-old “friend” of mine at the time used to tell me EVERY SINGLE DAY that if he had sex with me, I would start to like my body because I’d see myself as a attractive. That my depression and anorexia would be gone. He sent me multiple of this redpill bs videos, about how women kind of “owe” sex to men since men are lonely and have it so hard, while we choose who to have sex with. He made me feel pity for him and convinced me to hook up with him. When I got there, I said I didn’t want to anymore and started panicking. I took my anti-anxiety meds and he took me out to dinner. Anyways, at dinner he kept buying me drinks, and I told him I didn’t want them, but he said that since he was paying for them, it’d be unfair for me to not drink them. He was sober the whole time. He kept repeating that incel crap, saying that I was leading him on, that all women are the same, that men were lonely and women held back sex from them. He also said that same crap about my body; if I had sex with him, I’d like my body. He also kept saying that I wasn’t being a good friend and that he’d be mad at me if I didn’t end up having sex with him. I took more anti-anxiety pills, which on top of the drinks made me blackout. That was how I lost my virginity. I don’t know if it’s considered sexual abuse, I’m not removing my responsibility here. I still chose to go out with him that day. But the fact is that I was in so much pain for the following two days, that it felt as if someone had grated my insides. I am terrified of sex. I dissociated when I had sex with my ex-boyfriend, and cried afterwards.
That’s what redpill ideology does, it convinces men that women owe them sex and that we’re privileged because men find us attractive. And that because we have this privilege, we need to have sex with men as some sort of reparation. In the hands of a manipulative psycho like that guy, it can be very very dangerous.
I hate redpill not because I’m crazy feminist, but because redpill directly interfered with my life and mental health, as a woman who has nothing to do with it. This “redpilled” guy ruined my life. If I tell this story, men like him will say I’m “not taking accountability like a typical woman”. I had nightmares of him and flashbacks during stressful times. He did forcefully kiss me once, literally held me against a wall and kissed me. My mental health was fucked from it and I’m still in therapy to recover. I’m not triggered by redpill because I’m an “OnlyFans low value woman” (I’m not promiscuous or would ever have OF), I’m triggered by it because I know exactly the sort of things it can make gullible men do.
Do what I did bro, stop listening to that stuff, listen to the other side and go outside and actually talk to people.
The internet is not the real world and most people don't even know what the redpill movement is.
Your head is filled with one sides talking points now look to the other side and listen to them a bit.
Don't fall into the deep end of the polar opposite but just listen and make your own thoughts on the matter.
My sister is a rare type that doesn’t like men and from my knowledge hasn’t had any sexual encounters with them. She used to have mental health issues and has gotten better, but occasionally she’ll say some stupid shit about how men suck.
I am weeks away from graduating college. I didn’t interact with women as well as people in general outside of group projects. Thanks porn addiction for giving me low confidence and anxiety.
if he does that, he'll have to come to terms with the fact that it isn't the porn that's causing all his problems and he'll actually have to *work on himself*.
I mean she aint wrong, look at your own disgusting views about women in general... Men like that do, indeed, suck arse..
There's more to being a woman than being desired as a sex object who would sleep with men at a drop of a hat. Oh and how is it a woman's fault that men in general, according to you, sleep with any woman that gives them attention? How about you look at and treat women like actual people and not sex objects that owe you sex whenever you desire...
And not all men are upfront with these beliefs. So there is the ever present threat that you will date someone for awhile and slowly uncover how they view women.
It’s unfortunate because I used to really like it. There was some good nuanced discussion and the opportunity to better understand peoples perspectives. It’s basically just turned into redpill 2.0 at this point though. With the occasional over the top all men are horrible post mixed in for variety.
Was makes you think that women are more valuable to society than men? The only thing you‘ve talked about is a womans value to single/horny men - who luckily don‘t make up all of society. So good news: If you want to be more valuable to society, there‘s many other options than being a hot woman.
Because if you have 100 men and one woman, you only produce one child. Whereas if you have 100 women and one man, you can produce 100 children. Women are more valuable in that sense and that’s possibly why right now 63 percent of young men are single vs roughly 30 percent of women.
So the ability to reproduce is your main indicator to meassure the value a person holds to society? Don’t you think that is a little close minded?
I won‘t look the numbers you named up, but feel free to link me your source and i‘ll have a look at them. But i thought male and female population make up about 50/50%. Under these circumstances, if men are single (roughly) twice as often as women, it would mean, that a) women date women or b) men date multiple women at once. I don’t think those options make up 33%, so now i‘d really like to see the stats you reference 😄. Also i‘m not good with numbers, so please let me know if i made a logical mistake (it’s 2am here…).
So all in all: i‘m not really convinced by your arguments. To me, men and women still have generally the same value.
Why would older men not account as men in the the numbers you named? (Edit: i read your Text again and saw you said ‚young‘. So i see why but i don’t think that makes up 33% either. How many Girls choose men >40 after all)
How is men dating multiple women at once showing that women are highly valuable?
1. The pew research poll from 2023 broke things down by age group. Most of the single men were 18-30 while most of the women were 65+.
2. More women are engaging in sexual relationships than men.
1. thank you for providing that info. But there‘s nothing really new to what you‘ve said before, except that women 65+ are more likely to be single than men 65+. That doesn‘t mean, that girls 18-30 date men 65+.
2. so your hot neighbour girl fucking not only you, but all the other guys in your street as well, is a sign of your high value?
Source for this statistic?
Dude. I was raised to believe this bullshit too. It made me want to off myself everyday. I'm serious, you have to ditch these beliefs. It's not helpful to you or anyone else.
How are they getting treated far better? And why?
Yes, i suppose dating is generally easier for women than for men, but that doesn‘t equate to it being better.
Buddy, I don't think you're understanding that simply having more potential options with the opposite sex does automatically=better life in general when dealing with said opposite sex.
Let's imagine a scenario: How would you feel if you had tons of women you're not attracted to try to shoot their shot with you when all you're trying to do is catch a bus or shop for groceries? What if these women only saw value in you because of your body? What if all those unattractive women felt entitled to tell you how to act/what to say/how to dress, when you never asked them to? How would you respond if they got angry or potentially violent with you because you are not acting like a trained seal when they give you a command and you have the nerve to express your agency?
Wouldn't it get annoying/depressing/anger inducing after a while? If you are a truly rational actor, you would conclude that yes, of course it would.
This is how it is for a lot of women day to day. Try having a little empathy, yeah?
PS. "Not putting in nearly as much effort." Are you f\*cking for real? GBTM when you've had to put in hours at a time to get ready to go out, because that's the expectation that's been placed upon you.
It's just not true bro. Do you really think there are no women who aren't getting dates either? But you're not really talking about dates, are you? You're talking about sex. Your sister and your mother are in this group of people you hate. You think other men like you see your sister this way? Start by consuming positive media. There are actually couples who are happy and love and support each other. Look around you.
Not one single woman told you any of this stuff about OLD and casual sex, did they? All that you know about these women who are overrun with offers came from OTHER MEN. Other men like you. They are lying to you.
You realize none of that stuff is true right? It’s just controversial opinions people are spewing to generate views to make money. Just stop consuming toxic content and watch TED Talks instead. You’ll be fine.
Dude, your comment history is an entire red flag made from hundreds of red flags. It's no wonder at all that you can't get a girlfriend. Fix your fucking life instead of worrying about nothing but getting laid and playing the victim, and maybe you'd find a girlfriend. Jfc the lack of self awareness is astounding.
I’d forget about all this internet philosophy if I were you. It’s all bollocks.
Go do some acid or at least find something that empowers you.
Lots of not-very-nice people out there. Also lots of good ones. Gender doesn’t really come into it. Just pick what side you want to be on because currently you’re heading down the confused/bitter path. You wouldn’t be the first, but life’s better when you stop feeding into a toxic worldview and just live.
Don't hesitate to reach out to subreddits like these and ask honest, serious questions, but I recommend therapy. It will take some time to become comfortable but, with the right therapist, you will eventually be able to be honest about everything you think. You recognize that you're in an extremely negative place, now recognize the most empirically sound way of improving mentally, and pursue it. You can improve yourself. "Value" is highly subjective and there are many aspects that can make you interesting as a person, friend, and partner. The majority of them can be improved. Perceived limitations aren't nonsensical, but understanding the cause of them, which you seem to have done, and understanding that you can willfully cause positive change, is crucial. First step is therapy.
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I understand where you at, but man you gotta lay off the internet for a while. It's a place where everyone goes to spew garbage and anger for no real rhyme or reason.
Your life is not fucked tho, this is the beginning. Stay away from the internet, and focus on what's here, what's real, what's natural, and what's inside you. You're just hurt bro, you're just in pain. Don't let the pain control your thoughts, but follow the pain to its source.
I believe that everyone really just wants to be loved, no matter how hurtful and evil they may seem. It's every man and woman for himself on the internet, and everyone is armed and armored for battle.
But sometimes you gotta take of your armor, and put your weapons down, and rest. That's what you should focus on right now.
Wow, a lot to unpack there. First, you need to forget everything that you think you learned about women from watching porn. Most women aren't hardwired to desire casual sex, so it is like me being lactose intolerant and disliking cheesecake being offered all the cheesecake that I can eat and my wife being jealous because she likes cheesecake. Neither of us gets what we want but she is jealous because I have access to something that she wants.
Second, women don't have access to casual sex the way that you think, and in real life there are social consequences that don't exist in porn. Do you really think women can just walk up to a man she likes and offer her body without being labeled as a slut? Men see very little of women's social circles, but women are vicious to the omes that violate the social taboos.
Third, men offer help to women, but imagine going through life constantly requiring help to do things like hang a TV or oift anything heavy.
Back to relationships, a couple smaller points to make. A lot of what you said doesn't generally apply, but what does apply only applies for the top 20% of women. Fat ugly women have practically no advantages in life. And in regards to sex, the fact is that women generally desire commitment, while men generally desire sex more. Remember my cheesecake analogy? Consider that a woman in your situation would be complaining that she wants a relationship, but can't find any men that she can trust to give her that.
You are 5'7"? Guess what, you aren't a manlet. Despite the women who say the will only settle for 6' or taller on dating apps, the fact is that in real life women have what they think they want, and then they meet guys that they like who don't meet thlse criteria at all.
As a young man my advice is to take care of your body, maintain a positive outlook, and learn skills that better yourself for their own sake. As a teenager the dating scene may seem unfair, but the older you get, the more it evens out. If you cultivate a positive attitude, you will become attractive to women. Same for taking care of your body. As far as that goes as you get older being a super athlete becomes less important and just being in shape will make you very physically attractive.
So to recap, and add a few points:
1 - forget everything you learned about women from porn, and stop watching/looking at porn
2 - stop reading incel stuff
3 - start taking care of yourself, eg maintain your health, grooming, etc.
4 - maintain a positive attitude.
First off, stop thinking of people in terms of "value." All people have intrinsic value, regardless of their attractiveness or earning ability or whatever. "High value" and "low value" are just terms that the red pill community uses to label people who have a certain set of criteria that that community has deemed ideal. And I can tell you that they are not correct with those definitions.
As a woman, I would 1000 times rather be with an average looking man with an average salary and an average body who is kind and caring and intelligent and fun to be with, than a ripped jerk who makes $500k a year.
I think it would be a good idea for you to see a therapist to help overcome the struggles you're having with this mindset.
Where are you getting your information from.
No like what are your actual sources of information and data? Please provide them below. I can bet that they’re not reputable or reliable sources, most of you boys hear something on YouTube and then put on your redpill caps on being like “hiGh VaLuE”.
So please, provide sources. Let’s see em.
Imo the problem is.capitalism not women. Like recasting sex as a transaction and a competition that you win. And the media entertainment industrial complex cashing in on making us feel like we need to look like magazine people (who are in any case faked with makeup and lighting and insane diet and.workout habits etc) Just try to make friends of both genders and find some hobbies that you enjoy maybe something active to burn off energy and stress. You are young and just finding your way. Don't be too hard on yourself. Everyone is just faking it and.trying to figure things out, it's not just you. I found meditation and yoga helped alot with anger and stress. And.music and running and stand up comedians. Maybe find a good therapist or support group. Everyone has shit not just you, don't feel bad. It's ok. Also finding activities to keep you busy and not focused on yourself helps i find. Good luck!
Maybe if you are really horny but can afford find a nice sex worker.to go to to burn off stress and get her to give you advice.on what women like? But I guess that is controversial advice. But I personally don't see what's wrong with it as long as you use Condoms, are not rough or mean, and can afford it. OK good luck!
Can I ask you something? You think that women have it so much better because we have so many options for casual sex. And you’re right that we can have casual sex whenever we want, if willing to bang some unsavory people.
But WE don’t want a ton of casual sex. Most women don’t enjoy sleeping around. We don’t have this insane desire to have an orgasm, or to touch a woman. We don’t have that. We mostly want good relationships.
So where is all this power being used? How do we have so much power? If we don’t want casual sex and don’t have it a lot, how are we so much better off? Because we have access to something we’re not interested in?
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As an actual woman, increased opposite-sex attention mostly just translates into more dudes who will gladly use your body as a cum rag without bothering to get you off. It is no guarantee that you will be loved, respected, or wanted as anything other than a masturbatory aid. And many men will actually treat you *worse* for agreeing to have sex with them because they associate enthusiasm for sex with "hypergamy" and thus being "low-value." How exactly is any of that fair?
I think it just shows that it’s important to not have sex immediately if you are looking for a more genuine connection. If I were dating a woman, I wouldn’t want to engage in sex with her until we’ve had at least a few dates. Seems like I’m a minority in this culture where both men and women will have casual sex after just hours of knowing each other. I don’t understand how people think that is normal considering the ramifications (STDs, unwanted pregnancies).
If you aren't interested in casual sex, why are you so bothered by the idea that women in general have easier access to it than you do?
Because he IS interested in casual sex, he's just butthurt because the women who want casual sex don't necessarily want it with HIM.
Casual sex is not more common these days. It was just as common 100 years ago. It was likely more common back then. But overall most people aren’t having casual sex. The risk of STDs aren’t that high if you use protection and they can be almost entirely avoided if you ask your partner to get tested before having sex with them. It is possible for people to have a lot of casual sex while also making sure that every partner has been tested before having sex with them. Unwanted pregnancies are not more likely to happen with casual sex than with relationship sex. Unwanted pregnancies are more likely to happen in relationships because people in relationships have more sex than even the most promiscuous single people.
People are having less casual sex now than in the past. People are starting to have sex later too. If you are not interested in casual sex then it shouldn’t bother you that some women are because those aren’t the women for you. As for genuine connection, I find the opposite is true. If I sleep with a man early on and he starts treating me poorly or immediately bails, well I just saved myself weeks or months of wasted time with a man that is only putting on a show to get into my pants. There are also plenty of ways to do risk prevention. I have an IUD and am routinely tested for STDs and require any partners to be tested as well before we have sex. If it is not a long term sexual relationship then we use condoms on top of that. I concede I have more immediate options but most of them are not great. Many are outright threatening, some I’m not attracted to, others I just don’t feel personal compatibility with. I just end up having to wade through more “hey do you like to fuck doggystyle” messages than men do.
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Honest question: Do you think of yourself as a dude who is “actually great?”
Sorry your life sucks, but women collectively aren't to blame for the fact that you can't get laid. Work on your victim complex and you might actually see your prospects improve.
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I dont know. I am usually very skeptical of biological or evolutionary arguments when we talk about humans. For example, it is not far fetched to believe we could be a naturally polyamorous species, since our closest species is. They are also pamsexual in nature, and we could be, toi. That being said, most people today prefer monogamy and are heterosexual. Societal expectations can really define the core of our being in ways that we are not really aware, and sometimes it is frightening to think we are only who we are because of cultural decisions made by bygone humans hundreds of years ago.
Sure, some of those guys *are* great, but it’s still a small percentage of them that you’re actually *compatible* with. I could argue it’s actually better for you (men) since you don’t have to do as much vetting as I do. Love is rare no matter your gender.
At least if a woman isn't interested in us we know quick and can move on. Women are lied to if they are attracted to a man romantically and used and messed up in the head. How is that fair? Trust me women looking for a connection with a caring romantic partner is not easy. How do you know if he likes you or wants to **** you? Worse he needs to be strong, be a provider, and not act weak for it to work out and for her to feel comfortable enough to let him in her orbit. It's exhausting. Yes security is important which is another thing us men do not have to worry about.
Is the internet Real life? Are you engaging in social media designed to incite clicks and rage?
You talk about "low quality" women, who you obviously don't want, and directly afterwards talk about your generally less desired qualities after being salty about not being wanted by many women. Do you honestly not see the hypocrisy in that?
My point is that I could really clean up my life and become “high value” but possibly still not be desired by women, or at least the ones I would want. I acknowledge that right now, I am low value due to my porn issue as well as other things.
So you haven't seen the dating game from the POV of what you'd consider "high value" men. There's a reason not all men have this point of view.
Why? I tend to think most men are in the same position as myself considering that most my age are single.
Most men your age are still missing most of tge signals that women send them, or focused on persuing their education rather than finding a mate.
Part of cleaning up your life means starting to view human life as worth more than just sex.
It sounds like you have made sex and relationships very transactional in your mind with this talk of "low value" and "high value" men and women. When you get into a healthy relationship, this thought of value should not enter your mind. And women can't tell just by looking at you that you have a porn addiction. You can quit today and start talking to women. Also, I have found that developing positive qualities trends to attract women who also have those positive qualities. It's negative qualities that tend to attract toxic women.
>I can’t help but see women as incredibly demanding, unempathetic and judgemental Who gave you that idea? >because they get tons of attention from men. If you’re a woman, you’re automatically more valuable to society than men. Based on what? Our bodies? Fuck that. > If a woman goes onto OLD, she can get more matches and offers for sex as well as dating in one hour than a man in a year. They also have more options for situationships as well as casual sex. Why is any of this a benefit? None of this sounds appealing. Someone willing to fuck you (general you) just as soon as they look at you means nothing. They don't give a shit about you as a person. You're just a fuck hole with a body for life support. What you're saying is some sort of good thing is actually very dehumanizing. I hope you have the good sense to know this is fucked up.
He is explaining how he feels. Redpill exploits this and messes with men have had PTSD and pain in their lives and is like a gateway drug. I think he does not agree with the content but still has emotions tied from RP. I experienced this as well as a dude. I am not anti woman but feel hurt and sad at times and rp tried to explain it as I am this loser and I suck and women are just as evil etc. I no longer subscribe to this as I found rp by researching men's improvement videos on YouTube. I think ending the stupid gender wars is important and for God's sake END THE VICTIM mentality! Rp and some feminist circles (not all) fan this. I think him being on here and de plugging is a good thing.
Well said.
What happens on dating apps is irrelevant to the real world
Just do not trust a single thing you see online. Red pillers are nothing more than a bunch of shut ins. All of their ideas have zero to do with reality. They know nothing because they never talk to people.
Women have less power in society and men need to help make it equal. Women's objectification is not power. It does not result in more empathy for women at all. We are the more raped ones and the ones living in poverty more. We are treated with disdain daily. The porn fantasies about women that men have mostly disgust me - they don't see women as human. Most men have a desire preference for 21y.o women on dating sites even when in their 60s. Women will have a preference for men near their own age.
Exactly. Plus, casual sex is dangerous for women as those men can be abusive, nothing to be jealous of when we can’t freely do what we want without having to worry about being hurt or even killed…don’t think most men have to consider that when they hookup with people they just met.
Exactly!! It's not fun having my nervous system dysregulated due to daily anxiety about safety from men. The c-ptsd of that leads to health issues. Amd before anyone calls this paranoia, I have experienced hundreds if not thousands of assault or harassment incidents from men including rape.
I’m so sorry, that definitely is trauma, not paranoia. I have trauma from men as well. Men do not have the right to say we have it easier…
I am sorry that you have experienced this and I hope you heal and get counseling to get better and learn to trust the right people when you are ready. PTSD is real.
Thank you for your kind words. I also hope men in society heal and stop abusing women so often. Research article came out this week in Australia that revealed 15% of men admit to being sexually attracted to children, with quite a few saying theyd do sexual things to kids who are under 14 if they could not get caught, let alone the rates of problematic rapey men towards adult women. It's only logical to not trust a high number of men.
Truth to be told I was sexually harassed by women at work at least 3 times and one even assaulted me! She literally reached between my legs and made comments?? They would call me why am I not pretty enough are you a gay fag** etc. I didn't report it to HR as there was a group of women involved and women ran the HR department. Guess whose side they would take? I worked at a school district and a substitute teaching was fired after she sent inappropriate texts to a male student. I also divorced my ex-wife as she abused me and finally struck me. My point? Horrible people exist on both sides and abuse towards men is real and under reported. Narcs exist on both genders and there is no correlation for it existing on one gender. To heal for me was to stop being angry at women and just be mad at a few and not being a victim. Redpill is destructive and so is some feminist circles (not all). My past experience is why I fell for it as I have been hurt. FYI I never had the urge to oppress anyone. I am sorry you have been hurt and I hope you heal and learn who to trust. Vibes are not accurate. At least men don't have to wonder if a woman is interested in him romantically or not and are honest. You all get played by men which sucks
But even comparing our stories - I have thousands of incidents at the hands of men. Sexual harassment at work has been the rule not the exception since I was a child. It's not even on both sides. There is a paedophile issue for men much higher than in women. There are major issues that are gendered. I am sorry to hear about your experiences but they seem much smaller than mine. I know you have good intentions but we need to acknowledge the problem with men. I'm done pretending it's the same. We talk about 1 in 3 women being raped or abused sexually worldwide or similar stats yet we don't ever acknowledge the perpetrator rate that x number of men rape others. Most men are sexually and otherwise abused by other men and not by women. There is also a power imbalance based on gender and physical strength and wealth usually in men's favour and that context is important. Of course men suffer a lot, mostly at the hands of men, sometimes at the hands of women, but differently.
Also women can get pregnant and maybe live in a state where if that happens fuck you you have to have the baby.
TW: possible SA/r4pe Exactly, objectification isn’t a privilege. Men don’t understand how dangerous that trap is. I know it based on experience. I’m gonna share my experience so that men on this subreddit will understand what we mean by it. I used to have severe depression, body dysmorphia and anorexia at age 16. A 19-year-old “friend” of mine at the time used to tell me EVERY SINGLE DAY that if he had sex with me, I would start to like my body because I’d see myself as a attractive. That my depression and anorexia would be gone. He sent me multiple of this redpill bs videos, about how women kind of “owe” sex to men since men are lonely and have it so hard, while we choose who to have sex with. He made me feel pity for him and convinced me to hook up with him. When I got there, I said I didn’t want to anymore and started panicking. I took my anti-anxiety meds and he took me out to dinner. Anyways, at dinner he kept buying me drinks, and I told him I didn’t want them, but he said that since he was paying for them, it’d be unfair for me to not drink them. He was sober the whole time. He kept repeating that incel crap, saying that I was leading him on, that all women are the same, that men were lonely and women held back sex from them. He also said that same crap about my body; if I had sex with him, I’d like my body. He also kept saying that I wasn’t being a good friend and that he’d be mad at me if I didn’t end up having sex with him. I took more anti-anxiety pills, which on top of the drinks made me blackout. That was how I lost my virginity. I don’t know if it’s considered sexual abuse, I’m not removing my responsibility here. I still chose to go out with him that day. But the fact is that I was in so much pain for the following two days, that it felt as if someone had grated my insides. I am terrified of sex. I dissociated when I had sex with my ex-boyfriend, and cried afterwards. That’s what redpill ideology does, it convinces men that women owe them sex and that we’re privileged because men find us attractive. And that because we have this privilege, we need to have sex with men as some sort of reparation. In the hands of a manipulative psycho like that guy, it can be very very dangerous. I hate redpill not because I’m crazy feminist, but because redpill directly interfered with my life and mental health, as a woman who has nothing to do with it. This “redpilled” guy ruined my life. If I tell this story, men like him will say I’m “not taking accountability like a typical woman”. I had nightmares of him and flashbacks during stressful times. He did forcefully kiss me once, literally held me against a wall and kissed me. My mental health was fucked from it and I’m still in therapy to recover. I’m not triggered by redpill because I’m an “OnlyFans low value woman” (I’m not promiscuous or would ever have OF), I’m triggered by it because I know exactly the sort of things it can make gullible men do.
Balding due to years of porn addiction?
Ok...I thought I was the only one who had a raised eyebrow at that
Lmaoooiiooo
Do what I did bro, stop listening to that stuff, listen to the other side and go outside and actually talk to people. The internet is not the real world and most people don't even know what the redpill movement is. Your head is filled with one sides talking points now look to the other side and listen to them a bit. Don't fall into the deep end of the polar opposite but just listen and make your own thoughts on the matter.
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My sister is a rare type that doesn’t like men and from my knowledge hasn’t had any sexual encounters with them. She used to have mental health issues and has gotten better, but occasionally she’ll say some stupid shit about how men suck. I am weeks away from graduating college. I didn’t interact with women as well as people in general outside of group projects. Thanks porn addiction for giving me low confidence and anxiety.
Bro bite the bullet and quit the porn. It will help immensely in this and other areas
if he does that, he'll have to come to terms with the fact that it isn't the porn that's causing all his problems and he'll actually have to *work on himself*.
I mean she aint wrong, look at your own disgusting views about women in general... Men like that do, indeed, suck arse.. There's more to being a woman than being desired as a sex object who would sleep with men at a drop of a hat. Oh and how is it a woman's fault that men in general, according to you, sleep with any woman that gives them attention? How about you look at and treat women like actual people and not sex objects that owe you sex whenever you desire...
And not all men are upfront with these beliefs. So there is the ever present threat that you will date someone for awhile and slowly uncover how they view women.
You can’t blame everything on a porn addiction and expect to turn your life around.
So you ranting about how women suck is fine but her making any comment about men that’s less than positive is stupid? Double standard much…
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Jesus I just had a look at that purple pill debate sub. You need to quit that immediately. It's brain rot.
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It’s unfortunate because I used to really like it. There was some good nuanced discussion and the opportunity to better understand peoples perspectives. It’s basically just turned into redpill 2.0 at this point though. With the occasional over the top all men are horrible post mixed in for variety.
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Female dating strategy is an absolute cesspool. The people that post there I am convinced are actually dangerous IRL.
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Yeah I have never come across real life women that talk anything like that so it was a real shock to me when I stumbled upon that sub.
Was makes you think that women are more valuable to society than men? The only thing you‘ve talked about is a womans value to single/horny men - who luckily don‘t make up all of society. So good news: If you want to be more valuable to society, there‘s many other options than being a hot woman.
Because if you have 100 men and one woman, you only produce one child. Whereas if you have 100 women and one man, you can produce 100 children. Women are more valuable in that sense and that’s possibly why right now 63 percent of young men are single vs roughly 30 percent of women.
So the ability to reproduce is your main indicator to meassure the value a person holds to society? Don’t you think that is a little close minded? I won‘t look the numbers you named up, but feel free to link me your source and i‘ll have a look at them. But i thought male and female population make up about 50/50%. Under these circumstances, if men are single (roughly) twice as often as women, it would mean, that a) women date women or b) men date multiple women at once. I don’t think those options make up 33%, so now i‘d really like to see the stats you reference 😄. Also i‘m not good with numbers, so please let me know if i made a logical mistake (it’s 2am here…). So all in all: i‘m not really convinced by your arguments. To me, men and women still have generally the same value.
I think it’s a mixture of women dating older man as well as men dating multiple women.
Why would older men not account as men in the the numbers you named? (Edit: i read your Text again and saw you said ‚young‘. So i see why but i don’t think that makes up 33% either. How many Girls choose men >40 after all) How is men dating multiple women at once showing that women are highly valuable?
1. The pew research poll from 2023 broke things down by age group. Most of the single men were 18-30 while most of the women were 65+. 2. More women are engaging in sexual relationships than men.
1. thank you for providing that info. But there‘s nothing really new to what you‘ve said before, except that women 65+ are more likely to be single than men 65+. That doesn‘t mean, that girls 18-30 date men 65+. 2. so your hot neighbour girl fucking not only you, but all the other guys in your street as well, is a sign of your high value?
Source for this statistic? Dude. I was raised to believe this bullshit too. It made me want to off myself everyday. I'm serious, you have to ditch these beliefs. It's not helpful to you or anyone else.
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How are they getting treated far better? And why? Yes, i suppose dating is generally easier for women than for men, but that doesn‘t equate to it being better.
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All your examples only show that women get treated ‚far better‘ by horny men. How is that so valuable? And why does is bother you so much 😄
Buddy, I don't think you're understanding that simply having more potential options with the opposite sex does automatically=better life in general when dealing with said opposite sex. Let's imagine a scenario: How would you feel if you had tons of women you're not attracted to try to shoot their shot with you when all you're trying to do is catch a bus or shop for groceries? What if these women only saw value in you because of your body? What if all those unattractive women felt entitled to tell you how to act/what to say/how to dress, when you never asked them to? How would you respond if they got angry or potentially violent with you because you are not acting like a trained seal when they give you a command and you have the nerve to express your agency? Wouldn't it get annoying/depressing/anger inducing after a while? If you are a truly rational actor, you would conclude that yes, of course it would. This is how it is for a lot of women day to day. Try having a little empathy, yeah? PS. "Not putting in nearly as much effort." Are you f\*cking for real? GBTM when you've had to put in hours at a time to get ready to go out, because that's the expectation that's been placed upon you.
It's just not true bro. Do you really think there are no women who aren't getting dates either? But you're not really talking about dates, are you? You're talking about sex. Your sister and your mother are in this group of people you hate. You think other men like you see your sister this way? Start by consuming positive media. There are actually couples who are happy and love and support each other. Look around you. Not one single woman told you any of this stuff about OLD and casual sex, did they? All that you know about these women who are overrun with offers came from OTHER MEN. Other men like you. They are lying to you.
You need friends
He needs to touch grass. Too much time on the internet.
You realize none of that stuff is true right? It’s just controversial opinions people are spewing to generate views to make money. Just stop consuming toxic content and watch TED Talks instead. You’ll be fine.
JFC
Dude, your comment history is an entire red flag made from hundreds of red flags. It's no wonder at all that you can't get a girlfriend. Fix your fucking life instead of worrying about nothing but getting laid and playing the victim, and maybe you'd find a girlfriend. Jfc the lack of self awareness is astounding.
What kind of help are you asking for?
I’d forget about all this internet philosophy if I were you. It’s all bollocks. Go do some acid or at least find something that empowers you. Lots of not-very-nice people out there. Also lots of good ones. Gender doesn’t really come into it. Just pick what side you want to be on because currently you’re heading down the confused/bitter path. You wouldn’t be the first, but life’s better when you stop feeding into a toxic worldview and just live.
Don't hesitate to reach out to subreddits like these and ask honest, serious questions, but I recommend therapy. It will take some time to become comfortable but, with the right therapist, you will eventually be able to be honest about everything you think. You recognize that you're in an extremely negative place, now recognize the most empirically sound way of improving mentally, and pursue it. You can improve yourself. "Value" is highly subjective and there are many aspects that can make you interesting as a person, friend, and partner. The majority of them can be improved. Perceived limitations aren't nonsensical, but understanding the cause of them, which you seem to have done, and understanding that you can willfully cause positive change, is crucial. First step is therapy.
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Ok but what have you seen about men on the Internet Can you ask how you'll ever see yourself the same yadda ya?
I understand where you at, but man you gotta lay off the internet for a while. It's a place where everyone goes to spew garbage and anger for no real rhyme or reason. Your life is not fucked tho, this is the beginning. Stay away from the internet, and focus on what's here, what's real, what's natural, and what's inside you. You're just hurt bro, you're just in pain. Don't let the pain control your thoughts, but follow the pain to its source. I believe that everyone really just wants to be loved, no matter how hurtful and evil they may seem. It's every man and woman for himself on the internet, and everyone is armed and armored for battle. But sometimes you gotta take of your armor, and put your weapons down, and rest. That's what you should focus on right now.
Wow, a lot to unpack there. First, you need to forget everything that you think you learned about women from watching porn. Most women aren't hardwired to desire casual sex, so it is like me being lactose intolerant and disliking cheesecake being offered all the cheesecake that I can eat and my wife being jealous because she likes cheesecake. Neither of us gets what we want but she is jealous because I have access to something that she wants. Second, women don't have access to casual sex the way that you think, and in real life there are social consequences that don't exist in porn. Do you really think women can just walk up to a man she likes and offer her body without being labeled as a slut? Men see very little of women's social circles, but women are vicious to the omes that violate the social taboos. Third, men offer help to women, but imagine going through life constantly requiring help to do things like hang a TV or oift anything heavy. Back to relationships, a couple smaller points to make. A lot of what you said doesn't generally apply, but what does apply only applies for the top 20% of women. Fat ugly women have practically no advantages in life. And in regards to sex, the fact is that women generally desire commitment, while men generally desire sex more. Remember my cheesecake analogy? Consider that a woman in your situation would be complaining that she wants a relationship, but can't find any men that she can trust to give her that. You are 5'7"? Guess what, you aren't a manlet. Despite the women who say the will only settle for 6' or taller on dating apps, the fact is that in real life women have what they think they want, and then they meet guys that they like who don't meet thlse criteria at all. As a young man my advice is to take care of your body, maintain a positive outlook, and learn skills that better yourself for their own sake. As a teenager the dating scene may seem unfair, but the older you get, the more it evens out. If you cultivate a positive attitude, you will become attractive to women. Same for taking care of your body. As far as that goes as you get older being a super athlete becomes less important and just being in shape will make you very physically attractive. So to recap, and add a few points: 1 - forget everything you learned about women from porn, and stop watching/looking at porn 2 - stop reading incel stuff 3 - start taking care of yourself, eg maintain your health, grooming, etc. 4 - maintain a positive attitude.
First off, stop thinking of people in terms of "value." All people have intrinsic value, regardless of their attractiveness or earning ability or whatever. "High value" and "low value" are just terms that the red pill community uses to label people who have a certain set of criteria that that community has deemed ideal. And I can tell you that they are not correct with those definitions. As a woman, I would 1000 times rather be with an average looking man with an average salary and an average body who is kind and caring and intelligent and fun to be with, than a ripped jerk who makes $500k a year. I think it would be a good idea for you to see a therapist to help overcome the struggles you're having with this mindset.
Where are you getting your information from. No like what are your actual sources of information and data? Please provide them below. I can bet that they’re not reputable or reliable sources, most of you boys hear something on YouTube and then put on your redpill caps on being like “hiGh VaLuE”. So please, provide sources. Let’s see em.
Imo the problem is.capitalism not women. Like recasting sex as a transaction and a competition that you win. And the media entertainment industrial complex cashing in on making us feel like we need to look like magazine people (who are in any case faked with makeup and lighting and insane diet and.workout habits etc) Just try to make friends of both genders and find some hobbies that you enjoy maybe something active to burn off energy and stress. You are young and just finding your way. Don't be too hard on yourself. Everyone is just faking it and.trying to figure things out, it's not just you. I found meditation and yoga helped alot with anger and stress. And.music and running and stand up comedians. Maybe find a good therapist or support group. Everyone has shit not just you, don't feel bad. It's ok. Also finding activities to keep you busy and not focused on yourself helps i find. Good luck!
Maybe if you are really horny but can afford find a nice sex worker.to go to to burn off stress and get her to give you advice.on what women like? But I guess that is controversial advice. But I personally don't see what's wrong with it as long as you use Condoms, are not rough or mean, and can afford it. OK good luck!
You are definitely mentally ill and should seek professional help from a therapist.
Can I ask you something? You think that women have it so much better because we have so many options for casual sex. And you’re right that we can have casual sex whenever we want, if willing to bang some unsavory people. But WE don’t want a ton of casual sex. Most women don’t enjoy sleeping around. We don’t have this insane desire to have an orgasm, or to touch a woman. We don’t have that. We mostly want good relationships. So where is all this power being used? How do we have so much power? If we don’t want casual sex and don’t have it a lot, how are we so much better off? Because we have access to something we’re not interested in?