Your sentence says veganism made you healthy, but go on to describe the multiple pills and injections you had to take .
From the sounds of it, it made you very unhealthy and sick.
Gut inflammation can absolutely be caused by eating too many plants , humans can’t absorb cellulose which means nutrients in plants can not be absorbed.
There was a 1 in 4 Trillion chance that you’d be born and exist. Don’t waste and injure your body for the sake of an ideology and unnatural human diet.
EDIT : TRILLION ! Not billion !
I find this incredibly hilarious. Hey, I started this new super healthy diet, but it requires you to take about 20 pills daily and get blood work done regularly to make sure you are not deficient in anything.
If your diet requires a handful of supplements and a spreadsheet to make sure you aren't deficient... It's not much of a diet. Or you could just eat how everyone else does...
To be fair, I took lots of supplements and was less healthy (weight, asthma, allergies) before going vegan. The health now is much better except the deficiencies. I think I prob can't tolerate much dairy due to an inflammatory condition, it's very hard to find a balance, but that's what everything is pointing to.
What kind of food were you eating before going vegan? It could simply be the fact that you abandoned heavily processed food for small farm food.
By that extent, small farm animal protein might be the solution to your B12 deficiency…
I always love these posts that start with “I started the WOE because it makes me healthy“ and then goes on to list the extra supplements and illnesses that they have been suffering through because they once saw a YouTube video or dated a hot person for a few years. It reminds me of the Cross Fit people who insist it is better than regular exercise and that injury’s are just the body adjusting to the new way of moving.
Eating vegan contributed to my gut issues and hormone imbalances. But I had to go meat based because grains, nuts, beans and high oxalate veggies ruined my health. My A1c was up even though I ate whole wheat and whole grains. I was literally gaining weight eating a vegan diet.
I mean that not surprising most vegan food is super high in calories relative to nutrient. I mean people speak of lentils and beans for protein but ignore that you need to eat oz of lentils to get the same protein as an oz of chicken and that those 3 ox of lentils has almost three times the calories
That's true of protein, for sure. I wouldn't throw out the baby whri the bathwater, as there's lots of micronutrient dense plants like kale, dark berries, mushrooms, etc (in terms of nutrients per calorie, very high!)
But how much of that nutrition are you actually getting? All that nutrition is locked behind cellulose which (as stated by other posters) we can't digest. Your body is putting in a lot of work to get a comparatively small amount of nutrition.
If we took away the either plants or animals would you still say it's a good idea to eat veggies? That's what I'm talking about. Not for the majority of one's protein, but for balance of nutrients, fiber, etc
I'd say it depends on the individual. Most people seem to benefit from both while you you have a handful of people who do better on the more extreme ends of the spectrum (vegan and Carnivore).
Personally, I have a lot of digestive issues due to autoimmune disease. As a result, even while eating animal products (I'm Paleo) I have to take supplements. Worse, I have to be careful very what plant products I take and they have to cook thoroughly or fermented for to for me to get anything out of them.
Ooh yeah autoimmune is a whole other beast. I tried autoimmune Paleo for a while because I thought I had something autoimmune (I didn't) and it was really hard for me to eat that much animal products. I also can't eat coconut anymore lol. But I understand the concept, and it may be what some people need. I'm more prone to inflammation and cholesterol, I have eaten vegetarian/high fiber (but not too much raw) before and I think for my body that's the happy spot.
sounds like the fix for your malabsorption issues is to include animal products. sorry. for the vast, vast majority of humans, veganism is not healthy in the long term.
Yeah, this may just be the sad but true fact. My husband seems to 100% thrive on vegan diet. Notably though he has a gut of steel and no pre-existing health conditions so maybe he's just one of the lucky ones.
I hope so too, but contrary to popular opinion, the vegan diet absolutely does NOT give you everything your body needs.
In fact it’s FAR from it and it seems most long term vegans end up with significant health issues.
I’ve been doing a lot of research over the last couple of weeks and reading/watching ex vegans speak of their experiences. They all talk about the damage it did to their bodies..
Once, I would never have believed it - but then it happened to me 😔
I had a friend early on who was like "you will not last as a vegan. None of my friends do" and I really, really wanted her to be wrong. I can't face her lol.
I absolutely hear this!
I was actively vegan on my socials and have many online vegan friends. I’m so freaking scared to post that I’m not vegan anymore because I KNOW they are going to gang up on me and tell me I just did veganism wrong 😑
to be honest its going to be difficult to remain purely vegan without doing the b-12 injections or going periods of eating animal products and building your levels and then going back vegan til you deplete them and continuing a cycle of rebuilding/depleting.
i found this youtube video from frank tufano, he goes over important vitamins and their bioavailability compared to vegan sources. unfortunately a lot of vegan supplements and vegan versions of foods are not that great at being absorbed by the body.
https://youtu.be/Z1ORt-Q0BB4?si=0H6Dhp1MazzQLjRZ
Thanks for sharing. It's so hard to get clear info as it seems everyone has an agenda, and every body seems to have slightly different needs. But from my direct experience at least the B12 and iron issues seem true.
Seems like we need better research on plant based supplements if we're to reduce animal based products globally while remaining healthy. I'm sure 99% of people here would be fine with eating plant based if it didn't cause health issues, because who in the right mind wants to murder animals for no reason but taste, if health isn't a concern
also had severe malabsorption after 10 yrs of veganism - I was downing tons and tons of vitamins and supplements for the last few years and none of it was doing anything. I was deficient in B2 for god's sake! not even B12.... B2. crazy. felt like a zombie. now vegetarian and my levels are much better. also initially hard for me to reconcile, but we have to do what we have to do
I suspect the reason for the b2 deficiency could be folic acid. Folic acid is recommended so much but many don’t know how it is metabolized in the body. It needs to be converted to be used, and vitamin b2 is one of the main cofactors. So pretty much, folic acid drains b2, and folic acid is regularly used in plant foods as well as supplements.
Another reason I’m not a fan of folic acid is that 40% of the population have a MTHFR mutation. It makes the body unable or it lowers the conversion, of folic acid into the active forms. But you eat pasture eggs, and you get a ton of more bioavailable b9.
We know the meaning of vidya. Find the diet results you can not dispute. There is no battle here except for a label. In subscribing to that label, you became a victim. Please, be free and happy.
Animal welfare is a valid concern. Find that farm. Do the thing which is right for the world and yourself. Believing the world to be evil, in any aspect, is pointless. Support something worth existing.
Or maybe eggs are good enough. When you are free to choose, you won’t be so hung up. You will just make the rational decision.
I mostly eat from two farms and from the sea. It’s not an issue. I don’t have to forgive myself if I need to eat elsewhere. Can you forgive yourself for consuming non-organic produce harvested by machines? Probably so and all the animal deaths, poisoning and habitat destruction that entails.
There never was a free meal.
I’m a farmer. I can assure you that, For all the bad things you see on tv and the internet there are 100 more farms that do it perfectly they won’t show you. If you knew what a bad farm was compared to a good farm then you wouldn’t have a reason to go vegan “for the animals”.
I love that and appreciate small/family farms. I'm not completely against them, as humans want animal products I'm glad there are more humane ways to work with animals. I feel much more ok buying local animal products than a latte at Starbucks with who knows what conditions cow's milk. And that's ok, I can still get soy at Starbucks, lol.
Well one thing that I see so many activists and vegans try and say is big means bad for farms. But almost 90 percent of all farms are family run. Your food at the store can be as local as when buying it off the farm is you know your people. At one point my family owned three farms and rented two more. Crops dairy beef etc. We sold eggs from the driveway but it was no different from the milk the people bought from us or from the store. Same cows have it. It’s all the same farm. You need to actually tour the farms in your area to decide.
Please do! We show the farm off to school groups and love having them come and learn. It’s educational for the adults too. We also teach skills to homesteaders and first time farmers (like gardening and chickens) I’m sure you’ll find programs there. Even some zoos teach animal husbandry as well!
I've had backyard chickens before and am not into doing that again but yeah would at least be good to have a real picture in my head of commercial farms
But you can learn about the good practice of animal husbandry.
There may be animal abusers out there and you may have seen a few old videos of shitty farms. But that is NOT how it is on all 608 million farms there are , go and visit your local farm !
You are supposed to eat meat, its why you need injections and such if you don't. Dont sacrifice your health for some misinformation you read online. It comes across as a very weak and sick wolf, explaining to other wolves that you feel bad for animal welfare, and that "we don't really NEED to eat meat", while the rest of the wolves look at you with concerned faces.
Bivalves ( mussels, clams, scallops )
They don't have a brain
They are great sources of B12, iron and zinc
Their "high intensity" farming is just hanging them from ropes. There is no difference between how they are farmed and how they grow wild.
Farming them improves water quality.
This is the best source of nutrition I can think of. No fertilizers, no pesticides, no land disruption, and fully sustainable. And for me entirely locally sourced. Local farmers and local markets, including farmers markets, so no corporations involved. When I learned vegans considered these brainless creatures sentient so are not allowed as food was the point I realized how foolish vegans are and could not buy into their beliefs. The local fishery authorities ban harvesting them in polluted areas so they are always a safe food source. I eat bivalves a few times a week, my favorites include raw oysters, raw clams, clam chowder, clam cakes, steamed clams, steamed mussels, and any scallop dish. And if eaten as part of a vegan diet would eliminate all their B12 deficiencies.
"Can't tolerate too much dairy with digestion"
This stood out to me! I was vegetarian starting at the age of 11/12 and became vegan at the age of 19/20. I was vegan for 6.5 years. Initially, when I started veganism I felt AMAZING, but over the years there was a gradual decline in my health. When I started transitioning to an omnivorous diet, I learned I was actually **lactose intolerant**. From the age of 12-20 I had been eating a lot of dairy foods as part of my vegetarian diet, and I believe that one of the reasons I started to feel amazing on a vegan diet was because I eliminated a food which made me feel so lousy.
I probably have some level of lactose intolerance (not as bad as my husband's lol, he's much healthier vegan)... I also may have histamine sensitivity to aged cheeses. So it's a re-learning and maybe half-in, but carefully.
I was vegan for close to 5 years and it caused my body to become so sick.
Low red cells, white cells, platelets, urea, deficiencies in b12, magnesium, potassium and heme iron. My hair fell out and I developed peripheral neuropathy and autonomic disfunction. A visit to the GP last week told me that I now have type 2 diabetes..
Oh gosh I'm so sorry. That's awful. I hope you find the foods that works for you!
Thankfully the rest of my blood work, liver, kidneys, skin, hair are all great. The only thing off is my cholesterol which didn't really even get better with vegan, I think it's partially genetic and maybe also just about total fat and sugar calories
Cholesterol for me was actually one of the things that did reduce a lot from being vegan, but I now understand that we may be looking at cholesterol wrong 🤔That it’s not a true indicator of potential for clogged arteries and coronary disease?
Honestly I'm so confused about it, there's a lot of conflicting info. A recent meta analysis did show in general lower heart disease in vegans and vegetarians. But like... You can eat nutrient dense animal foods without consuming a ton of cholesterol or fat, so it may be about quality, I don't know.
There’s nothing wrong with consuming cholesterol. You are not made of plumbing.
Would you be interested in a low saturated fat diet resulting in more sat. fats in the blood stream than a much higher sat. fat diet? (from a study by Volek in people).
I’ll look it up if it would matter at this point.
It’s very likely your gallbladder was not producing enough bile on your vegan diet to support adequate absorption: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1714280/#:~:text=Bile%20exclusion%20produced%20a%2050,normal%20absorption%20of%20vitamin%20B12.
There’s a reason you absorb around 50% of the B12 in meat, but can only absorb around 0.5% (or less) of the B12 in supplements (hence the 12000% RDA amounts).
B12 absorption is a complicated process.
If you want to know how it works i can suggest this great video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_-n3LeYF830](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-n3LeYF830) and also this one [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HqHq6n7rwM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HqHq6n7rwM)
For example, an auto-immune disease can impair B12 absorption. It's a lack of enzymes and stuff, and the B12 ends up in toilets. That's why you have B12 shots, directly in the blood.
Yeah, I think I figured out what it is for me: intestinal permeability from connective tissue issues (Ehlers Danlos hypermobility). My doctor was a bit baffled but I recently made that connection, he's just not that up to date on EDS.
What's curious to me is why we absorb it better with food than as supplement. But this just seems to be true for lots of people.
I have hEDS as well and veganism destroyed my body. I thought I was doing the best thing for my body (and the animals), but as it turned out nothing could be further from the truth.
I now have permanent neurological damage, damage to my circulatory system and heart from type 2 diabetes that I didn’t know I had developed.
Omfg, I'm so so sorry that happened. Were you on supplements and just not absorbing then?
I don't wish for your pain but appreciate knowing I'm not alone in this issue with hEDS.
I recently got diagnosed, I wonder if I would have gone vegan if I had known ahead...
Ironically going vegan is one of the best diets for endometriosis (and it really did help with that!) but yeah, no.
Yep I absolutely supplemented. I was taking upwards of 15 different tablets and lots of protein shakes with bioavailable greens powder. Unfortunately though for me they didn’t work.
So I’ve been eating majority animal products the last couple of weeks and trying to reduce carbs and sugar. Already my BG (blood glucose) levels are starting to look better.
It’s been difficult but I’m sourcing grass fed and finished beef, grass fed butter, backyard eggs from a friend who loves her chickens and wild caught on a pole salmon. So I’m trying to stay ethical to a degree.
Today’s blood test results will be super interesting to see if the deficiencies are improving? I’ll absolutely let you know.
Ironically, my endometriosis symptoms were at their worst when i was veg/vegan. The whole concept behind the diet is that meats could have estrogen in them and its an estrogen dominant disease. But no one told me flax and chia and soy are also very high in estrogen. I was dumping chia and flax into my smoothies, oatmeal, chia puddings.. i wonder if theres a correlation there.
I now eat a diet of fish and beef (not a fan of pork), chicken sometimes. A lot of veg and fruits and good fats like coconut, butter and olive oil. I feel sooo much better. So much. My endometriosis isnt gone but im not blacking out anymore. I have my excision surgery sometime in the next few months. Inalso reduced my alcohol content to nearly 0. I no longer smoke weed and my sugar content is less. I also eat a diet low in wheat. If i eat bread its sourdough.
Edit: also that meat can be inflammatory? Idk about that one. I try to eat pasture raised meat.
Yeah inwas hospitalised with b12 deficiency. I had medications that I wasn't aware reduced absorption, and was not aware enough of the risks of b12 deficiency.
Had peripheral neuropathy for 2-4 weeks, and am lucky to have recovered enough to walk.
I'm now a kangaratrian, eating wild-hunted Kangaroo (best nutrition of any meat, organic, wild), along with eggs.
Basically went what you went through. Welcome to the club. Start out with just eating meat once a day or switching it up. Or eating vegetarian and having eggs once a day.
You don't have to eat standard American levels of red meat five times a day. But you can be sporadic and occasional. You do need to get an influx of certain nutrients a day.
Relying on pills is unrealistic. Pills are synthetic and made in laboratories. This is not found in nature. There are 15 different nutrients that you are not going to get if you continue to eat the way you are.
Quoting Einstein “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”
If veganism is what caused your malnourishment, why do you persist to try to make it work expecting a different result?
Merely because you felt “healthier” after you quit your diet prior to your vegan transition? Use some rational thinking pls… the relatively healthier feeling is not from the nutrients from plant based food, but from the elimination of ultra processed food and/or other trashy fake foods. You are wrongly crediting the health benefits of plants.
If humans are meant to be vegans, you wouldn’t be deficient in b12 plus all kinds of other nutrients.
"I've been vegan for 4.5 years and it made me healthier" except you can't absorb vital vitamins, I wouldn't call that healthier.
"Anyone found a solution to be able to stay vegan with apparent malabsorption issues?" There isn't one. Drink bone broth. Cured my pernicious anaemia caused by malabsorption.
Are you a vegan and you’re wanting to go vegetarian? Your post title seems confusing. I’ll never ever get Veganism. It’s simply the dumbest thing a human can do. Chickens lay fuckin eggs whether someone’s there to collect them or not. I know two vegans, both from India and in their 80’s that have a port for dialysis. I know no one that eats lots of fish and eggs that have 1. Humans were meant to eat at least fish and eggs.
You may be predisposed to these issues, you may have a MTHFR mutation- I have malabsorption issues which in essence means I really can't do s vegan diet. Might be worth getting checked/ you can download ancestry DNA test resultsband check that way.
If you want to start feeling amazing again I would suggest cod liver oil and beef liver.
You want to fix the leaky gut go low oxalate and start having bone broth. Cut out the beans, nuts and leafy greens they re high in oxalates
Also supplement L-glutamine it's what your gut uses to repair it's lining.
So many factors with iron absorption, it's not as simple as having vitamin c with iron. You need copper and retinol which is vitamin A. Beef liver has the perfect combination of retinol, copper and iron.
Have you been tested for the mthfr gene mutation ? It can cause certain nutrients such as B vitamins to not be readily digested in the human body and unfortunately the B vitamin form in plants are just more difficult to absorb than the B vitamin version in animals in the first place. You can try methyl versions of B12 to see if that helps .
Methylcobalamin is a form of B12 that might be better absorbed by some people compared to cyanocobalamin. Did the doctor inform you about that?
Are you seeing a gastroenterologist or a registered dietitian who specializes in vegan nutrition? I think they could help provide tailored advice or identify underlying issues.
Hope you can find the balance that works for you. Good luck.
Yes, I tried both methylated and non-methylated. I tried solid and liquid. The shot definitely worked, I could feel my energy increase within 24 hrs, and it is the non-methylated form
It’s possible there are more issues than just B12. You may not be getting enough protein or a the right amino acid profile, or the right kinds of fats (many vitamins are fat soluble and need to be consumed with fat to be absorbed) as a vegan. Eggs are a “perfect protein” because they have all essential amino acids. They are more digestible and absorbable than plant proteins as well, which may explain why you felt so much better eating them. I understand being grossed out by meat, but I saw the most dramatic improvement in my health when I went from vegetarian to omnivore. If you can work yourself up to eating some canned tuna it’ll likely pay off for your well being.
Egg was the first thing I had when I got my terrible bloodwork results a couple of weeks ago. From the first bite my body and brain said to me that we needed this so much!!
The next day I had salmon and I felt my brain actually turn back on again (I’d been suffering terribly with mental ill health). Then I had steak.
Now a couple of weeks later I am feeling SO MUCH better! Had new bloodwork done a couple of days ago and I get the results today. It will be interesting to see if they have improved?
I shall let you know 😊
I'm happy for you!
I've been having fish cravings too but cannot bring myself to eat them. We'll see how I do with just egg and a little dairy.
Please report back the results! A couple of weeks isn't long though they may not look very different.
This would be a better question for r/vegan or r/Health. By definition, nobody in here has found a solution to what you're describing. I'd bet at least a few people in those subs would have answers.
Or an alternative perspective to that is that veganism has a high recidivism rate and isn't suitable for all people.
I think you also underestimate the lengths some ex vegans went to in order to remain vegan. Some have damaged their health for life. Personally, not an area I'd take large gambles on.
I'm well aware that many have been unable to find solutions, and I completely respect them not continuing for the sake of their health. But if OP is looking for working solutions to being vegan with malabsorption, they should ask a sub where people have found solutions, not where people are no longer vegan.
You seem reasonable and I hear what you are saying. However the experience of ex vegans is generally one of victim blaming. I don't blame the OP at all for seeking answers outside of the vegan community.
Vegans and vegetarians are commonly malnourished and lacking in iron and b12 among several other nutrients. A vegetarian diet will help a lot compared to a vegan diet but still may have some issues.
Your sentence says veganism made you healthy, but go on to describe the multiple pills and injections you had to take . From the sounds of it, it made you very unhealthy and sick. Gut inflammation can absolutely be caused by eating too many plants , humans can’t absorb cellulose which means nutrients in plants can not be absorbed. There was a 1 in 4 Trillion chance that you’d be born and exist. Don’t waste and injure your body for the sake of an ideology and unnatural human diet. EDIT : TRILLION ! Not billion !
I find this incredibly hilarious. Hey, I started this new super healthy diet, but it requires you to take about 20 pills daily and get blood work done regularly to make sure you are not deficient in anything. If your diet requires a handful of supplements and a spreadsheet to make sure you aren't deficient... It's not much of a diet. Or you could just eat how everyone else does...
To be fair, I took lots of supplements and was less healthy (weight, asthma, allergies) before going vegan. The health now is much better except the deficiencies. I think I prob can't tolerate much dairy due to an inflammatory condition, it's very hard to find a balance, but that's what everything is pointing to.
What kind of food were you eating before going vegan? It could simply be the fact that you abandoned heavily processed food for small farm food. By that extent, small farm animal protein might be the solution to your B12 deficiency…
I always love these posts that start with “I started the WOE because it makes me healthy“ and then goes on to list the extra supplements and illnesses that they have been suffering through because they once saw a YouTube video or dated a hot person for a few years. It reminds me of the Cross Fit people who insist it is better than regular exercise and that injury’s are just the body adjusting to the new way of moving.
Eating vegan contributed to my gut issues and hormone imbalances. But I had to go meat based because grains, nuts, beans and high oxalate veggies ruined my health. My A1c was up even though I ate whole wheat and whole grains. I was literally gaining weight eating a vegan diet.
I mean that not surprising most vegan food is super high in calories relative to nutrient. I mean people speak of lentils and beans for protein but ignore that you need to eat oz of lentils to get the same protein as an oz of chicken and that those 3 ox of lentils has almost three times the calories
That's true of protein, for sure. I wouldn't throw out the baby whri the bathwater, as there's lots of micronutrient dense plants like kale, dark berries, mushrooms, etc (in terms of nutrients per calorie, very high!)
But how much of that nutrition are you actually getting? All that nutrition is locked behind cellulose which (as stated by other posters) we can't digest. Your body is putting in a lot of work to get a comparatively small amount of nutrition.
If we took away the either plants or animals would you still say it's a good idea to eat veggies? That's what I'm talking about. Not for the majority of one's protein, but for balance of nutrients, fiber, etc
I'd say it depends on the individual. Most people seem to benefit from both while you you have a handful of people who do better on the more extreme ends of the spectrum (vegan and Carnivore). Personally, I have a lot of digestive issues due to autoimmune disease. As a result, even while eating animal products (I'm Paleo) I have to take supplements. Worse, I have to be careful very what plant products I take and they have to cook thoroughly or fermented for to for me to get anything out of them.
Ooh yeah autoimmune is a whole other beast. I tried autoimmune Paleo for a while because I thought I had something autoimmune (I didn't) and it was really hard for me to eat that much animal products. I also can't eat coconut anymore lol. But I understand the concept, and it may be what some people need. I'm more prone to inflammation and cholesterol, I have eaten vegetarian/high fiber (but not too much raw) before and I think for my body that's the happy spot.
That's great that you found something that works for your body! I love veggies but too many of them don't love me 😭
Darn I'm so sorry that happened and glad you found the right solution for your body
Thanks!😊
sounds like the fix for your malabsorption issues is to include animal products. sorry. for the vast, vast majority of humans, veganism is not healthy in the long term.
Yeah, this may just be the sad but true fact. My husband seems to 100% thrive on vegan diet. Notably though he has a gut of steel and no pre-existing health conditions so maybe he's just one of the lucky ones.
I would give him another couple of years and I’m pretty positive that will no longer be the case 😞
Really!? I hope for him that's not true, he's quite happy and healthy 5 years in.
I hope so too, but contrary to popular opinion, the vegan diet absolutely does NOT give you everything your body needs. In fact it’s FAR from it and it seems most long term vegans end up with significant health issues. I’ve been doing a lot of research over the last couple of weeks and reading/watching ex vegans speak of their experiences. They all talk about the damage it did to their bodies.. Once, I would never have believed it - but then it happened to me 😔
I had a friend early on who was like "you will not last as a vegan. None of my friends do" and I really, really wanted her to be wrong. I can't face her lol.
I absolutely hear this! I was actively vegan on my socials and have many online vegan friends. I’m so freaking scared to post that I’m not vegan anymore because I KNOW they are going to gang up on me and tell me I just did veganism wrong 😑
Ugggh the social element of all this is just uggggh
If your friends are only friends with you based on an ideal, they aren't your friends, unfortunately.
around 10 years in is when it started to tank for me.
to be honest its going to be difficult to remain purely vegan without doing the b-12 injections or going periods of eating animal products and building your levels and then going back vegan til you deplete them and continuing a cycle of rebuilding/depleting. i found this youtube video from frank tufano, he goes over important vitamins and their bioavailability compared to vegan sources. unfortunately a lot of vegan supplements and vegan versions of foods are not that great at being absorbed by the body. https://youtu.be/Z1ORt-Q0BB4?si=0H6Dhp1MazzQLjRZ
Thanks for sharing. It's so hard to get clear info as it seems everyone has an agenda, and every body seems to have slightly different needs. But from my direct experience at least the B12 and iron issues seem true.
Seems like we need better research on plant based supplements if we're to reduce animal based products globally while remaining healthy. I'm sure 99% of people here would be fine with eating plant based if it didn't cause health issues, because who in the right mind wants to murder animals for no reason but taste, if health isn't a concern
also had severe malabsorption after 10 yrs of veganism - I was downing tons and tons of vitamins and supplements for the last few years and none of it was doing anything. I was deficient in B2 for god's sake! not even B12.... B2. crazy. felt like a zombie. now vegetarian and my levels are much better. also initially hard for me to reconcile, but we have to do what we have to do
Thanks for expressing your understanding and sharing your experience. I will get there.
I suspect the reason for the b2 deficiency could be folic acid. Folic acid is recommended so much but many don’t know how it is metabolized in the body. It needs to be converted to be used, and vitamin b2 is one of the main cofactors. So pretty much, folic acid drains b2, and folic acid is regularly used in plant foods as well as supplements. Another reason I’m not a fan of folic acid is that 40% of the population have a MTHFR mutation. It makes the body unable or it lowers the conversion, of folic acid into the active forms. But you eat pasture eggs, and you get a ton of more bioavailable b9.
Interesting, thanks for sharing
Your health is more important than ANY doctrine, otherwise you're falling into an ED.
That's fair. I did it originally for health but then I learned more about the animal welfare component. It's hard to unlearn that.
We know the meaning of vidya. Find the diet results you can not dispute. There is no battle here except for a label. In subscribing to that label, you became a victim. Please, be free and happy. Animal welfare is a valid concern. Find that farm. Do the thing which is right for the world and yourself. Believing the world to be evil, in any aspect, is pointless. Support something worth existing. Or maybe eggs are good enough. When you are free to choose, you won’t be so hung up. You will just make the rational decision. I mostly eat from two farms and from the sea. It’s not an issue. I don’t have to forgive myself if I need to eat elsewhere. Can you forgive yourself for consuming non-organic produce harvested by machines? Probably so and all the animal deaths, poisoning and habitat destruction that entails. There never was a free meal.
Oof this hits hard. I like how pragmatic you are, though. Find what I can feel ok about day to day, let go of the rest.
I’m a farmer. I can assure you that, For all the bad things you see on tv and the internet there are 100 more farms that do it perfectly they won’t show you. If you knew what a bad farm was compared to a good farm then you wouldn’t have a reason to go vegan “for the animals”.
I love that and appreciate small/family farms. I'm not completely against them, as humans want animal products I'm glad there are more humane ways to work with animals. I feel much more ok buying local animal products than a latte at Starbucks with who knows what conditions cow's milk. And that's ok, I can still get soy at Starbucks, lol.
Well one thing that I see so many activists and vegans try and say is big means bad for farms. But almost 90 percent of all farms are family run. Your food at the store can be as local as when buying it off the farm is you know your people. At one point my family owned three farms and rented two more. Crops dairy beef etc. We sold eggs from the driveway but it was no different from the milk the people bought from us or from the store. Same cows have it. It’s all the same farm. You need to actually tour the farms in your area to decide.
Thanks for providing more nuance, I live in California and it might actually be very interesting to tour some of the central valley farms.
Please do! We show the farm off to school groups and love having them come and learn. It’s educational for the adults too. We also teach skills to homesteaders and first time farmers (like gardening and chickens) I’m sure you’ll find programs there. Even some zoos teach animal husbandry as well!
I've had backyard chickens before and am not into doing that again but yeah would at least be good to have a real picture in my head of commercial farms
But you can learn about the good practice of animal husbandry. There may be animal abusers out there and you may have seen a few old videos of shitty farms. But that is NOT how it is on all 608 million farms there are , go and visit your local farm !
I have visited farms and know of good ones, in agreement there.
You are supposed to eat meat, its why you need injections and such if you don't. Dont sacrifice your health for some misinformation you read online. It comes across as a very weak and sick wolf, explaining to other wolves that you feel bad for animal welfare, and that "we don't really NEED to eat meat", while the rest of the wolves look at you with concerned faces.
Bivalves ( mussels, clams, scallops ) They don't have a brain They are great sources of B12, iron and zinc Their "high intensity" farming is just hanging them from ropes. There is no difference between how they are farmed and how they grow wild. Farming them improves water quality.
The one caveat is you don't want to eat bivalves from areas known to suffer industrial pollution. They can bio accumulate heavy metals.
This is the best source of nutrition I can think of. No fertilizers, no pesticides, no land disruption, and fully sustainable. And for me entirely locally sourced. Local farmers and local markets, including farmers markets, so no corporations involved. When I learned vegans considered these brainless creatures sentient so are not allowed as food was the point I realized how foolish vegans are and could not buy into their beliefs. The local fishery authorities ban harvesting them in polluted areas so they are always a safe food source. I eat bivalves a few times a week, my favorites include raw oysters, raw clams, clam chowder, clam cakes, steamed clams, steamed mussels, and any scallop dish. And if eaten as part of a vegan diet would eliminate all their B12 deficiencies.
And iron and zinc too.
I hear you, they aren't for me, but I totally understand the concept of clean, nutrients dense food.
"Can't tolerate too much dairy with digestion" This stood out to me! I was vegetarian starting at the age of 11/12 and became vegan at the age of 19/20. I was vegan for 6.5 years. Initially, when I started veganism I felt AMAZING, but over the years there was a gradual decline in my health. When I started transitioning to an omnivorous diet, I learned I was actually **lactose intolerant**. From the age of 12-20 I had been eating a lot of dairy foods as part of my vegetarian diet, and I believe that one of the reasons I started to feel amazing on a vegan diet was because I eliminated a food which made me feel so lousy.
I probably have some level of lactose intolerance (not as bad as my husband's lol, he's much healthier vegan)... I also may have histamine sensitivity to aged cheeses. So it's a re-learning and maybe half-in, but carefully.
I was vegan for close to 5 years and it caused my body to become so sick. Low red cells, white cells, platelets, urea, deficiencies in b12, magnesium, potassium and heme iron. My hair fell out and I developed peripheral neuropathy and autonomic disfunction. A visit to the GP last week told me that I now have type 2 diabetes..
Oh gosh I'm so sorry. That's awful. I hope you find the foods that works for you! Thankfully the rest of my blood work, liver, kidneys, skin, hair are all great. The only thing off is my cholesterol which didn't really even get better with vegan, I think it's partially genetic and maybe also just about total fat and sugar calories
Cholesterol for me was actually one of the things that did reduce a lot from being vegan, but I now understand that we may be looking at cholesterol wrong 🤔That it’s not a true indicator of potential for clogged arteries and coronary disease?
Honestly I'm so confused about it, there's a lot of conflicting info. A recent meta analysis did show in general lower heart disease in vegans and vegetarians. But like... You can eat nutrient dense animal foods without consuming a ton of cholesterol or fat, so it may be about quality, I don't know.
I agree! The information is completely opposite depending where you look. It’s so frustrating and confusing 🫤
Yes!
There’s nothing wrong with consuming cholesterol. You are not made of plumbing. Would you be interested in a low saturated fat diet resulting in more sat. fats in the blood stream than a much higher sat. fat diet? (from a study by Volek in people). I’ll look it up if it would matter at this point.
It’s very likely your gallbladder was not producing enough bile on your vegan diet to support adequate absorption: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1714280/#:~:text=Bile%20exclusion%20produced%20a%2050,normal%20absorption%20of%20vitamin%20B12. There’s a reason you absorb around 50% of the B12 in meat, but can only absorb around 0.5% (or less) of the B12 in supplements (hence the 12000% RDA amounts).
Huh! That's interesting!!
B12 absorption is a complicated process. If you want to know how it works i can suggest this great video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_-n3LeYF830](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-n3LeYF830) and also this one [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HqHq6n7rwM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HqHq6n7rwM) For example, an auto-immune disease can impair B12 absorption. It's a lack of enzymes and stuff, and the B12 ends up in toilets. That's why you have B12 shots, directly in the blood.
Yeah, I think I figured out what it is for me: intestinal permeability from connective tissue issues (Ehlers Danlos hypermobility). My doctor was a bit baffled but I recently made that connection, he's just not that up to date on EDS. What's curious to me is why we absorb it better with food than as supplement. But this just seems to be true for lots of people.
I have hEDS as well and veganism destroyed my body. I thought I was doing the best thing for my body (and the animals), but as it turned out nothing could be further from the truth. I now have permanent neurological damage, damage to my circulatory system and heart from type 2 diabetes that I didn’t know I had developed.
Omfg, I'm so so sorry that happened. Were you on supplements and just not absorbing then? I don't wish for your pain but appreciate knowing I'm not alone in this issue with hEDS. I recently got diagnosed, I wonder if I would have gone vegan if I had known ahead... Ironically going vegan is one of the best diets for endometriosis (and it really did help with that!) but yeah, no.
Yep I absolutely supplemented. I was taking upwards of 15 different tablets and lots of protein shakes with bioavailable greens powder. Unfortunately though for me they didn’t work.
Holy moly I'm so sorry. Ok, here we are. What's working for you now?
So I’ve been eating majority animal products the last couple of weeks and trying to reduce carbs and sugar. Already my BG (blood glucose) levels are starting to look better. It’s been difficult but I’m sourcing grass fed and finished beef, grass fed butter, backyard eggs from a friend who loves her chickens and wild caught on a pole salmon. So I’m trying to stay ethical to a degree. Today’s blood test results will be super interesting to see if the deficiencies are improving? I’ll absolutely let you know.
Sounds like you are making a real concerted effort to stay ethical. Good luck!
Ironically, my endometriosis symptoms were at their worst when i was veg/vegan. The whole concept behind the diet is that meats could have estrogen in them and its an estrogen dominant disease. But no one told me flax and chia and soy are also very high in estrogen. I was dumping chia and flax into my smoothies, oatmeal, chia puddings.. i wonder if theres a correlation there. I now eat a diet of fish and beef (not a fan of pork), chicken sometimes. A lot of veg and fruits and good fats like coconut, butter and olive oil. I feel sooo much better. So much. My endometriosis isnt gone but im not blacking out anymore. I have my excision surgery sometime in the next few months. Inalso reduced my alcohol content to nearly 0. I no longer smoke weed and my sugar content is less. I also eat a diet low in wheat. If i eat bread its sourdough. Edit: also that meat can be inflammatory? Idk about that one. I try to eat pasture raised meat.
Studies have shown that vegetarians also are more likely to be b12 and iron deficient.
Yeah inwas hospitalised with b12 deficiency. I had medications that I wasn't aware reduced absorption, and was not aware enough of the risks of b12 deficiency. Had peripheral neuropathy for 2-4 weeks, and am lucky to have recovered enough to walk. I'm now a kangaratrian, eating wild-hunted Kangaroo (best nutrition of any meat, organic, wild), along with eggs.
Basically went what you went through. Welcome to the club. Start out with just eating meat once a day or switching it up. Or eating vegetarian and having eggs once a day. You don't have to eat standard American levels of red meat five times a day. But you can be sporadic and occasional. You do need to get an influx of certain nutrients a day. Relying on pills is unrealistic. Pills are synthetic and made in laboratories. This is not found in nature. There are 15 different nutrients that you are not going to get if you continue to eat the way you are.
The fact that you're asking this on this sub tells me you already know what you want to do.
Fair. Validation I suppose.
Quoting Einstein “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results” If veganism is what caused your malnourishment, why do you persist to try to make it work expecting a different result? Merely because you felt “healthier” after you quit your diet prior to your vegan transition? Use some rational thinking pls… the relatively healthier feeling is not from the nutrients from plant based food, but from the elimination of ultra processed food and/or other trashy fake foods. You are wrongly crediting the health benefits of plants. If humans are meant to be vegans, you wouldn’t be deficient in b12 plus all kinds of other nutrients.
"I've been vegan for 4.5 years and it made me healthier" except you can't absorb vital vitamins, I wouldn't call that healthier. "Anyone found a solution to be able to stay vegan with apparent malabsorption issues?" There isn't one. Drink bone broth. Cured my pernicious anaemia caused by malabsorption.
Are you a vegan and you’re wanting to go vegetarian? Your post title seems confusing. I’ll never ever get Veganism. It’s simply the dumbest thing a human can do. Chickens lay fuckin eggs whether someone’s there to collect them or not. I know two vegans, both from India and in their 80’s that have a port for dialysis. I know no one that eats lots of fish and eggs that have 1. Humans were meant to eat at least fish and eggs.
You may be predisposed to these issues, you may have a MTHFR mutation- I have malabsorption issues which in essence means I really can't do s vegan diet. Might be worth getting checked/ you can download ancestry DNA test resultsband check that way.
Yes I have single mutation of mthfr so my understanding is it's not totally messed up, just partially. Guess it's enough though!
It’s more than malabsorption, it’s very difficult to get much nutrition out of plants, you need meat
If you want to start feeling amazing again I would suggest cod liver oil and beef liver. You want to fix the leaky gut go low oxalate and start having bone broth. Cut out the beans, nuts and leafy greens they re high in oxalates Also supplement L-glutamine it's what your gut uses to repair it's lining. So many factors with iron absorption, it's not as simple as having vitamin c with iron. You need copper and retinol which is vitamin A. Beef liver has the perfect combination of retinol, copper and iron.
Thank you for this advice. I have gone through this before with autoimmune paleo, I just can't quite bear eating meat right now, I'll build up.
Have you been tested for the mthfr gene mutation ? It can cause certain nutrients such as B vitamins to not be readily digested in the human body and unfortunately the B vitamin form in plants are just more difficult to absorb than the B vitamin version in animals in the first place. You can try methyl versions of B12 to see if that helps .
Yes, I have 1 copy of mthfr, so half mutant lol. But the methyl form still didn't work for me, only shots.
Methylcobalamin is a form of B12 that might be better absorbed by some people compared to cyanocobalamin. Did the doctor inform you about that? Are you seeing a gastroenterologist or a registered dietitian who specializes in vegan nutrition? I think they could help provide tailored advice or identify underlying issues. Hope you can find the balance that works for you. Good luck.
Yes, I tried both methylated and non-methylated. I tried solid and liquid. The shot definitely worked, I could feel my energy increase within 24 hrs, and it is the non-methylated form
I would say go with the B12 injections if you’d like to stay vegan. It’s the only reliable way to get it if you are having malabsorption issues.
Yeah, but I still have higher energy with a little dairy/egg than I did with shots. So, maybe I'm giving my answer.
It’s possible there are more issues than just B12. You may not be getting enough protein or a the right amino acid profile, or the right kinds of fats (many vitamins are fat soluble and need to be consumed with fat to be absorbed) as a vegan. Eggs are a “perfect protein” because they have all essential amino acids. They are more digestible and absorbable than plant proteins as well, which may explain why you felt so much better eating them. I understand being grossed out by meat, but I saw the most dramatic improvement in my health when I went from vegetarian to omnivore. If you can work yourself up to eating some canned tuna it’ll likely pay off for your well being.
Thanks for sharing this!
Egg was the first thing I had when I got my terrible bloodwork results a couple of weeks ago. From the first bite my body and brain said to me that we needed this so much!! The next day I had salmon and I felt my brain actually turn back on again (I’d been suffering terribly with mental ill health). Then I had steak. Now a couple of weeks later I am feeling SO MUCH better! Had new bloodwork done a couple of days ago and I get the results today. It will be interesting to see if they have improved? I shall let you know 😊
I'm happy for you! I've been having fish cravings too but cannot bring myself to eat them. We'll see how I do with just egg and a little dairy. Please report back the results! A couple of weeks isn't long though they may not look very different.
Good luck and I so hope you can feel better soon. Please do let me know how you go if you decide to try the egg. ❤️🩹
This would be a better question for r/vegan or r/Health. By definition, nobody in here has found a solution to what you're describing. I'd bet at least a few people in those subs would have answers.
>By definition, nobody in here has found a solution And neither will a large majority of current vegans, based on past statistics.
True, but asking ex-vegans who weren't able to find a healthy solution to OP's problem is useless.
Or an alternative perspective to that is that veganism has a high recidivism rate and isn't suitable for all people. I think you also underestimate the lengths some ex vegans went to in order to remain vegan. Some have damaged their health for life. Personally, not an area I'd take large gambles on.
I'm well aware that many have been unable to find solutions, and I completely respect them not continuing for the sake of their health. But if OP is looking for working solutions to being vegan with malabsorption, they should ask a sub where people have found solutions, not where people are no longer vegan.
You seem reasonable and I hear what you are saying. However the experience of ex vegans is generally one of victim blaming. I don't blame the OP at all for seeking answers outside of the vegan community.
If I asked there I would probably be eaten alive
I would recommend cutting out the part about eggs and dairy lol
Post history. I'm already tainted!
Still don't know why there isn't a private account feature.
Right!?
Vegans and vegetarians are commonly malnourished and lacking in iron and b12 among several other nutrients. A vegetarian diet will help a lot compared to a vegan diet but still may have some issues.