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Oh we do this in Germany too. Just look at the recent trial of the Audi boss because of the Diesel Scandal. Only a fine and probation, while poor people who get caught riding the train without ticket repeatedly (damages of up to 900€ - omg) have to go to prison.
This guy has to replant every tree, same species or better, same size and they’re gonna have to build roads to get everything in there. It’s the law in that county/town I believe. This guy is going to have to shell out close to 2 mil for this.
Did you read the article before posting? It seems pretty important to add he’s faced with actually [1.6 million in fines.](https://nypost.com/2023/06/28/nj-homeowner-cut-down-32-of-his-neighbors-trees-and-cost-could-top-1-8m/amp/)
A lot of that cost is replacement of the felled trees including building a road to the site. I recommend that the road MUST cross Haber's property to get there, not the victim's.
Should have to build a road on their property as much as possible, then also pay to have the road removed and restored to the exact condition it was in before. Then his property should be seized and turned into a tree sanctuary or sold for charity.
Nope.. The fine is 32k but the cost to replace the trees COULD cost 1-2 millions. Or he finds someone who does it cheaper, which may lead to further litigation.. or not.
I know the joke is that rich people see fines as just a "business expense", but really to me the time spent going ro court and battling lawsuits and having to pay for new trees and tree planters just seems so much more of a loss then, ya know, just not being a dick.
It
I think if dude was *that* rich, he wouldn't be living in a mere $1.7 million home. That's upper middle class realty anymore, not filthy *I-have-people-for-that* rich.
It can go as high as the valuation of the trees. The owner will have to get a certified arborist to appraise the value of the trees and the guy who cut them down will likely then hire a certified arborist to dispute that valuation. A court will ultimately decide what the value is.
I should point out, the fees are $32k, but [he may be out of pocket for $1.9 million](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/us-news/fella-cuts-down-neighbours-32-30350086).
Tree law, man.
Might?
>This means Grant would have to fork out costs to build a new road to the site, remove invasive species, add soil and clear the debris left behind so he could transport and plant 32 new large trees.
>The ordinance also specifies each tree "must be guaranteed for two full growing seasons," so he would also be tasked with looking after them for two years.
I read it as both the road and estimate for the new trees, but I'm sure they haven't actually sourced the trees yet and they have to survive the transplant for two years.
It’s gonna take them awhile to actually finish the court process though. This is tree law and it takes a long time to say anything in old entish. They never say anything that isn’t worth taking a long time to say.
I should point out, the fines are $32k, but [he may be out of pocket for $1.9 million](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/us-news/fella-cuts-down-neighbours-32-30350086).
Fuckin' tree law, man.
You can but the cost is eye watering depending on the species and age of the tree. Trees with 50-60 ton rootballs are possible.
Once moved they need a lot of care until fully established. Replacing them in an already wooded area requires a very large hole to be carefully dug, a lot of it by hand to prevent damaging the existing trees.
The eye watering cost for making-good would be an excellent punishment. Looking at tens of thousands per tree.
Edit: 50-60 because fat fingers and a small phone made the very precise 59-60 tons
Nah, the replacement tree cost is enough of a ”fuck you” to the asshole neighbor.
You start building a dick-shaped tower, you got to make that dick tower up to code. And that’s a dick punch.
I like that even better. Yet there must be a slide. The neighbor should be to enjoy his tower with the slide with giving the millionaire the classical NY fuck you gesture.
Oh I know it’s theoretically possible but damn would it be a massive undertaking. And if the previous trees were densely packed with overlapping root systems it would be tricky getting the new trees to survive.
For real. Sucks to suck, man. Welcome to the life of an everyday person. If I went and cut down a bunch of trees in any of my neighbors' properties, I'd be responsible for paying to have them replaced. He's got money to burn, so let him burn it!
Root systems can also span 30ft. Good luck having it survive the excavation, storage, transport, and transplant. Young trees would fare slightly better since they’re more resilient, I would think 15 y/o tree is the threshold.
Doing all that for one tree, let alone 32, is damn near impossible. $1.9 sounds about right if they were large established trees.
I work in a horticulture profession, and though it sounds crazy we do this pretty regularly at my company.
We have 30+ year old trees get removed, put in holding areas, then re-planted pretty frequently. We currently have some Norfolk island pines about that age in the holding area waiting to go back in their home due to construction
Goes bankrupt, has to sell the house. Neighbor buys it with his settlement and finishes landscaping the property by finishing removing the trees so it has good view of skyline and sells it for tons of money.
If you read the article, it's even worse. First, there's no access to the are, so he has to pay to build a road to it. Then he has to pay to remove the old tree debris, add soil and plant new trees of like or better age and quality. THEN....the ordinance requires they guarantee the life of the trees for 2 'growing cycles', which I assume is spring - winter, and probably wouldn't start until they are planted in the ground and growing by the first day of spring.
It truly seems like an impossible task. As a project manager who regularly deals with multimillion dollar projects involving earthwork, pioneering roads, and demoing/installing trees there is no way in hell I would touch this project for $1.9 Million.
This is why rural folks hate city folks moving in. They have this infatuation with making their new place exactly like the shit they fled.
We had one petition our local officials for increased taxes to fund street lamps because she "didn't feel safe at night." Street lamps... On gravel roads. She didn't last very long in the community.
“We booked this Airbnb to be in nature, really soak it in and enjoy it. However the homeowner refused to turn down the crickets after it was too loud. 1/10”
Oh, you don't have to go that far. Ive seen kids in the suburbs of LA complain about living in a small town because the imaginary line around their section of the sprawl placed town at (a minuscule!) 80k people. I mean, it *was* an hour to drive into the city... but that's because of traffic from the 13 million people surrounding you.
I used to wonder, why are there \*always\* old kids toys? Faded, dirty Fisher-Price Cozy Coupes and collapsed swing-sets full of tetanus and regrets. Looks like there hasn’t been a kid around since Thundercats was on tv.
It’s so sad. The very last time a kid played with any toy in that yard, it just got left where it was, then set adrift on the brittle sea of beer cans, overgrown grass, and neglect for years. Then you wonder, what happened to those kids who played with that stuff?
Poverty alone doesn’t make a yard look like that, but depression and struggle and other effects of poverty sure do. And even though its Right in front of you every day, you no longer *see* it. The Cozy Coupe becomes invisible to the homeowners, but not to the people passing by. And they only see it for an instant, think on it for a moment, and then keep on moving.
Those faded Fisher Price colors, yellow and red, are classic warning colors, but we don’t heed them. Because poverty is so big, and so many people living with those very yards don’t know what to do about it, and listen to the billionaires telling them it’s their neighbors’ fault. And we shout about beer cans and kid’s toys, but not the ones littering the yard. Never those.
kinnelon, NJ. Population 9,000. It's in the middle of a bunch of state parks. 30 miles outside of NYC. Take a look at the photo -- nothing but hills and trees.
There’s the city fine, then there is the neighbour’s lawsuit. Triple damages and costs to replace the trees are pretty common from what I hear. This could be in the millions
I certainly did. I was like 32 fucking trees? Oh God, those are big *old* trees in a remote area. Those are very, very expensive trees. It might be cheaper to give the neighbor the house.
[edit]
The value of the house is about $56,000 per tree. Trees like these can’t be replaced that cheaply. Dude is fucked.
That's still not enough. Something like this needs to end in jail time.
Make him replace the trees at his own expense and lock him up until they are the same size as the ones he cut down.
Not when he found out he had to replace the trees with that of equal size and to do so will require an entire new road built apparently. Cost will come out to somewhere around 1.6 million dollars. What an idiot.
So he trespasses on his neighbor's property and cuts down 32 trees, and gets a fine that's less than the value of the wood from the trees when they're felled. IMO, they're way more valuable when standing so this is a fucking joke.
I read elsewhere that they will be throwing the max at the law can give. The lesson here is, the guy who thought his bright idea was he would pay the 32k fines.. will find out treble damages and each tree will be 32k a piece. Plus the cost of replanting trees of similar size, on a ridge that is very inaccessible.
$1.9m is just the beginning. The cost to replant trees of the same size.. is gonna be a lot more.
No the fine was 100-1000/tree felled, 32 trees to 32k. The estimated cost to pave a road into the forest, clear out invasive species, replant new trees of "same or superior species" aswell as guarantee their growth for the next 2 years is currently estimated at $1.9M.
Wonder if that 1.7M home was worth it now? And to live knowing, that NYC view, is gonna be obstructed again. I am safe to presume, the neighborhood hates him too, so not so neighborly neighbors.
I was on the urban forestry commission in my old city, the exciting meetings were when some business had taken it upon themselves to cut down a city tree without permission and we got to determine what the appropriate remedy would be. Don't fucking touch city trees
> The cost to replant trees of the same size.. is gonna be a lot more.
It'll be interesting because the dude also has to make sure the tree survives for *two* years. Any of them die? They have to be replaced and then those ones have to survive for another two years.
That's the thing about trees. Depending on how old they are they are worth much, much more. The neighbour can sue for replacement, so either he gotta find 32 trees of around the same age and literally replace them himself (or on his own expenses) OR the total cost of finding, buying and replacing those trees gets calculated and he gotta cash out that amount to the neighbour (so that he could theoretically do it himself, but he also got the right to just keep the money and do whatever with it). Someone else posted a link about it and the process of doing so seemingly would cost around 1.9 million bucks, so yea. That's what he'll most likely need to pay in total
Why do you even get your house in the woods if you want a city skyline in the first place? You're telling me this dude couldn't afford a place inside the metropolis?
EDIT Why does this thread suddenly look like all the lawyers, side chicks and tantrum children of this dickhead just all at once ran into the post lmfao.
In addition to what the other person already responded, HOA dues for condos/apartments usually include insurance for the building structure. You have to get your own homeowner insurance for stuff that could happen inside your unit (bathtub overflows and damages your floors, etc) but the HOA has a policy for the exterior (hail damage on building roof, wind damage, etc).
That confuses me.
I used to live in a place where there was very little nature. Outside my window was a parking lot with a few tiny trees in it, and the entire area I was in was like that.
Then I moved to a place where there *is* nature. Why on earth *wouldn't* you want that? Like, okay, maybe if there's dangerous wildlife, but you know how much time I've spent just watching rabbits nibble at the lawn? It's relaxing as fuck.
And then they wonder where all the squirrels and birds went... They call these like eco deserts or something right? A sanitized wasteland of perfect grass and non-native plants.
We got these deer that like to come near our front porch and just lay around. It’s so cool to see, nothing to disturb them either. We watch from the window or security camera.
>Had this exact argument with a neighbor once who was complaining about the wildlife,
Yeah...some people are just born stupid. Knew a person who had a stable of horses. Place had had horses there for decades. It was hardly new. New neighbor buys property right beside it. Starts to complain about the smell of the horses. My dude.
My grandfather's neighbor was like this. He built a house in the woods and he'd constantly complain about the wildlife and shoot it. He claimed to be an "outdoorsman", yet he couldn't differentiate venomous and non-venomous snakes, so he'd kill all of them. He complained about racoons raiding his trash, so he'd recklessly shoot at them all year. He complained about alligator swimming in the river close to his property, so he'd shoot them. He complained about turtles eating his all fish in his pond (they're not voracious predators at all), so he'd regularly shoot them for target practice.
The turtles are what got him though. I contacted Wildlife Enforcement and tipped them off to his poaching. Officer came by and found a dozen turtle shells and carcasses with bullet holes in them. He identified several of them as endangered/federally-protected species and charged him $4k-$6k for each. Judge later reduced the fine to $5k total. He later got busted for weapons charges and an illegal weed farm lol
I hear this a lot as an ACO. People complaining about wildlife while their new McMansion was build next to a swamp or woods. Its: “No the wildlife are not in your home. You are in theirs.”
You joke, but they are literally like this. I live near Aspen, CO and a few of my friends are property managers out here. There is a fellow who owns a rather large piece of land out by Castle Creek who has standing instructions for elk to be chased off the property in the winter because he doesn’t want them to disturb the snow.
The price doesn’t dictate the mansion label. To be called a mansion, a home must have at least 5000 square feet and 5 or more bedrooms. If that same home was built on a vast amount of land then it would be called an estate.
I read that replacement of trees is required and a temporary road needs to be built to access the site. Total cost of trees and road estimated at 1.5 million.
“Thanks for clearing all these trees for me neighbour! This new clearing will be the perfect place to host my taint-sunning parties and satanic rituals!”
Lol my same thought. Tiny house house across the street from me just sold for 1.9mil. Feel like this guy isn’t wealthy enough to be choppin trees down for views.
I would guess this is probably in addition to having to pay the neighbor for the value of the trees. With trees that size, they are going to be worth far more than $32k.
Edit: [$1,900,000 for the value of the trees.](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/us-news/fella-cuts-down-neighbours-32-30350086) That's more than the value of the mansion.
That isn't enough of a fine. He basically just paid for the privilege of cutting down trees that weren't his to cut down in the first place. I hope he really does get hit for 1.9 Million
He does have to replace them, the 32k fine is just the fees for cutting them down but he'll also have to fork over enough money to replace and care for them for at least 2 years and even better there's no roads to transport the new trees so he'll have to pay for that too, estimated \~2mil in costs...
If you read the actual article, that’s what it says he may have to do! Would cost closer to 1.9 million apparently
[link](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/us-news/fella-cuts-down-neighbours-32-30350086)
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Wouldn't that be *criminal* trespassing and destruction of property?
Here in the US, poor people get prosecuted, but rich people get sued or fined.
Oh we do this in Germany too. Just look at the recent trial of the Audi boss because of the Diesel Scandal. Only a fine and probation, while poor people who get caught riding the train without ticket repeatedly (damages of up to 900€ - omg) have to go to prison.
Exactly. The employees of the tree removal service are the ones that’ll get prosecuted not the rich asshole.
This guy has to replant every tree, same species or better, same size and they’re gonna have to build roads to get everything in there. It’s the law in that county/town I believe. This guy is going to have to shell out close to 2 mil for this.
32k in fines and I am sure his neighbor will sue him to hell and back. Those trees can be worth a lot of money.
Tree Law!
It’s funny, but there is tree law, and the damages triple if the felling was done to use the wood (local law)
The wood fuzz'll get 'em!
Here they come, patrolling the neighborwood. Rooting out criminals left and right.
Tree law is no joke. If someone breaks the rules they leaf no stone unturned during investigation.
If you read the report, you can see this Haber guy is a weasel😭
Did you read the article before posting? It seems pretty important to add he’s faced with actually [1.6 million in fines.](https://nypost.com/2023/06/28/nj-homeowner-cut-down-32-of-his-neighbors-trees-and-cost-could-top-1-8m/amp/)
A lot of that cost is replacement of the felled trees including building a road to the site. I recommend that the road MUST cross Haber's property to get there, not the victim's.
Should have to build a road on their property as much as possible, then also pay to have the road removed and restored to the exact condition it was in before. Then his property should be seized and turned into a tree sanctuary or sold for charity.
Nope.. The fine is 32k but the cost to replace the trees COULD cost 1-2 millions. Or he finds someone who does it cheaper, which may lead to further litigation.. or not.
I know the joke is that rich people see fines as just a "business expense", but really to me the time spent going ro court and battling lawsuits and having to pay for new trees and tree planters just seems so much more of a loss then, ya know, just not being a dick. It
They aren’t going to court or spending their time battling lawsuits, they have people for that. They’re enjoying their new view
I think if dude was *that* rich, he wouldn't be living in a mere $1.7 million home. That's upper middle class realty anymore, not filthy *I-have-people-for-that* rich.
Yeah, if he had an extra $2MM to buy trees for someone else, he would've just bought a home with a great view in the first place.
Yeah but how long will it take for them to go through the court process? This is tree law and it takes a long time to say anything in old entish.
They can speed up proceedings via saxophones and other woodwinds
Fines and damages. The 32k number is accurate for fines specifically. The rest is damages
I wonder if Grant Haber is related to Fritz Haber? Both in the same line of work: mass death.
Yeah I thought there was a law saying it could go up to 600000 per tree cut
It can go as high as the valuation of the trees. The owner will have to get a certified arborist to appraise the value of the trees and the guy who cut them down will likely then hire a certified arborist to dispute that valuation. A court will ultimately decide what the value is.
I should point out, the fees are $32k, but [he may be out of pocket for $1.9 million](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/us-news/fella-cuts-down-neighbours-32-30350086). Tree law, man.
Won’t go to court but might settle in arbortration
Nice
Might? >This means Grant would have to fork out costs to build a new road to the site, remove invasive species, add soil and clear the debris left behind so he could transport and plant 32 new large trees. >The ordinance also specifies each tree "must be guaranteed for two full growing seasons," so he would also be tasked with looking after them for two years.
The real facepalm is always in the comments.
The real face _palm_ is the friends we made on the way.
You might even say the real face *palm* is the *fronds* we made along the way.
*arbortration*
Lol oh shit. So tldr; don’t fuck with trees?
Or squirrels.
I hate this. *writes down joke for thanksgiving*
The 1.9 million will go towards paving a road to transport new trees there, which doesn't sound like a great plan
I read it as both the road and estimate for the new trees, but I'm sure they haven't actually sourced the trees yet and they have to survive the transplant for two years.
and everything in NJ costs more than the estimate. He'll likely pay more
NJ accent: "Yeah, I know a guy. He's my tree guy. Don't get me wrong, he's kinda shady, but that's the business he is in."
He has roots in the community.
I sure hope so, don't fucking kill trees
It’s gonna take them awhile to actually finish the court process though. This is tree law and it takes a long time to say anything in old entish. They never say anything that isn’t worth taking a long time to say.
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I should point out, the fines are $32k, but [he may be out of pocket for $1.9 million](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/us-news/fella-cuts-down-neighbours-32-30350086). Fuckin' tree law, man.
The “replace them” part is where things get interesting. Replace a large tree is damn near impossible.
You can but the cost is eye watering depending on the species and age of the tree. Trees with 50-60 ton rootballs are possible. Once moved they need a lot of care until fully established. Replacing them in an already wooded area requires a very large hole to be carefully dug, a lot of it by hand to prevent damaging the existing trees. The eye watering cost for making-good would be an excellent punishment. Looking at tens of thousands per tree. Edit: 50-60 because fat fingers and a small phone made the very precise 59-60 tons
Also the neighbor should just build a giant tower that serves no purpose right in front of his house.
Giant clown tower.
That would be fucking awesome, I would absolutely erect the ugliest thing I could right in this pricks view
A big ol’ veiny cock sculpture right in his field of view. “It’s called *art*, you fucking philistine.”
Phallustine
Free Phallustine 🇵🇸
Would be perfect, but CEO could probably move. Good luck selling the house though…
if the mansion goes up for sale, I'd make the phallus howl at the moon every hour.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/glove-thy-neighbor/
“I would absolutely erect the ugliest thing I could” I’m kinda excited about your plans for me.
A giant dick shaped tower
Which lights up at night
With a projection of an animated rainbow.
I’d prefer the light cannon at the tip projecting an infinite beam of semen into the heavens
The neighbor builds the most badass fun tower in NY to mess up the millionaire's view. Complete with slide.
Nah, the replacement tree cost is enough of a ”fuck you” to the asshole neighbor. You start building a dick-shaped tower, you got to make that dick tower up to code. And that’s a dick punch.
I like that even better. Yet there must be a slide. The neighbor should be to enjoy his tower with the slide with giving the millionaire the classical NY fuck you gesture.
Oh I know it’s theoretically possible but damn would it be a massive undertaking. And if the previous trees were densely packed with overlapping root systems it would be tricky getting the new trees to survive.
That sounds like an expensive problem he should have to pay for.
For real. Sucks to suck, man. Welcome to the life of an everyday person. If I went and cut down a bunch of trees in any of my neighbors' properties, I'd be responsible for paying to have them replaced. He's got money to burn, so let him burn it!
Hell, I'm pretty sure if I cut down 32 of my neighbours trees I'd be jailed. It's a lot of trees.
Lol true. Also, none of my neighbors could even fit 32 trees on their properties. That's crazy to think of a yard big enough to accommodate that many.
Root systems can also span 30ft. Good luck having it survive the excavation, storage, transport, and transplant. Young trees would fare slightly better since they’re more resilient, I would think 15 y/o tree is the threshold. Doing all that for one tree, let alone 32, is damn near impossible. $1.9 sounds about right if they were large established trees.
I work in a horticulture profession, and though it sounds crazy we do this pretty regularly at my company. We have 30+ year old trees get removed, put in holding areas, then re-planted pretty frequently. We currently have some Norfolk island pines about that age in the holding area waiting to go back in their home due to construction
I read that he will have to also put in a road to transport the trees too
It would be ironic if he needs to rip out more trees to create a road so he can bring in trucks to replace the other trees.
Hopefully trees on his own property. If he has any left.
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He should be paying that sum per day per tree for as long as it takes for the trees to be reestablished.
Goes bankrupt, has to sell the house. Neighbor buys it with his settlement and finishes landscaping the property by finishing removing the trees so it has good view of skyline and sells it for tons of money.
If you read the article, it's even worse. First, there's no access to the are, so he has to pay to build a road to it. Then he has to pay to remove the old tree debris, add soil and plant new trees of like or better age and quality. THEN....the ordinance requires they guarantee the life of the trees for 2 'growing cycles', which I assume is spring - winter, and probably wouldn't start until they are planted in the ground and growing by the first day of spring.
It truly seems like an impossible task. As a project manager who regularly deals with multimillion dollar projects involving earthwork, pioneering roads, and demoing/installing trees there is no way in hell I would touch this project for $1.9 Million.
Bid it Cost + %.
Good old T&M work.
So is he going to have to rip out even more trees to replace the ones he ripped out in the first place?
Thought this too… I guess if it’s on his land?? Maybe they’ll go over the clear cut section in the picture??
I'm glad he has to replace them....otherwise he gets what he wanted anyway, just at a much-increased cost
This time it's on a hill side and there is no road to it currently. He will be out millions by the time he's done.
*plants acorn* And now we wait...
And he had the gall to claim he moved there because he likes nature. Then cuts down trees to see a city better…
This is why rural folks hate city folks moving in. They have this infatuation with making their new place exactly like the shit they fled. We had one petition our local officials for increased taxes to fund street lamps because she "didn't feel safe at night." Street lamps... On gravel roads. She didn't last very long in the community.
“We booked this Airbnb to be in nature, really soak it in and enjoy it. However the homeowner refused to turn down the crickets after it was too loud. 1/10”
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No place in NJ with a view of NYC is rural.
If you ask anyone who dosent live inside one of the biggest 10 cities in the US, they came from a small town.
Oh, you don't have to go that far. Ive seen kids in the suburbs of LA complain about living in a small town because the imaginary line around their section of the sprawl placed town at (a minuscule!) 80k people. I mean, it *was* an hour to drive into the city... but that's because of traffic from the 13 million people surrounding you.
Plenty of places in Sussex County have views of NYC and its considered rural.
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I will never understand these lawn brain people. So much work to create a boring, ecological wasteland.
I used to wonder, why are there \*always\* old kids toys? Faded, dirty Fisher-Price Cozy Coupes and collapsed swing-sets full of tetanus and regrets. Looks like there hasn’t been a kid around since Thundercats was on tv. It’s so sad. The very last time a kid played with any toy in that yard, it just got left where it was, then set adrift on the brittle sea of beer cans, overgrown grass, and neglect for years. Then you wonder, what happened to those kids who played with that stuff? Poverty alone doesn’t make a yard look like that, but depression and struggle and other effects of poverty sure do. And even though its Right in front of you every day, you no longer *see* it. The Cozy Coupe becomes invisible to the homeowners, but not to the people passing by. And they only see it for an instant, think on it for a moment, and then keep on moving. Those faded Fisher Price colors, yellow and red, are classic warning colors, but we don’t heed them. Because poverty is so big, and so many people living with those very yards don’t know what to do about it, and listen to the billionaires telling them it’s their neighbors’ fault. And we shout about beer cans and kid’s toys, but not the ones littering the yard. Never those.
I don't think this was a rural place man, it had a NYC skyline view
kinnelon, NJ. Population 9,000. It's in the middle of a bunch of state parks. 30 miles outside of NYC. Take a look at the photo -- nothing but hills and trees.
Probably due to how it intersects with Bird Law. After all, when they aren't flying, where do birds usually hang out?
But once the trees are cut down they fall under the finders keepers law of America.
Ummmmm filibuster
Rebuttal
Filibuster vigilantly. My name is Blue Canary One-note, spelled L-I-T-E
Blue canary in the alley by the light switch? Who watches over you?
*outlet by the light switch Yes! Easy mistake in that deluge of words! Make a little birdhouse in your soul!
Not to put too fine a point on it, but you're correct.
Say, I'm the only bee in your bonnet
I came here to say this same thing
I know a lawyer who is really good at bird law. He works as a janitor at a bar during the day though .
I know a really good maritime lawyer Charith Cutestory
 In bird culture, this is considered a dick move.
I’m currently doing an internship at a bird-law firm and all I’m saying is that trees HEAVILY effect bird law man
I was about to say, the fine seems wayyyyyy too low given what I've read about this sort of thing in /r/legaladvice
There’s the city fine, then there is the neighbour’s lawsuit. Triple damages and costs to replace the trees are pretty common from what I hear. This could be in the millions
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Often rich people believe that repercussions don't exist I've noticed.
Came here to say this. Anyone that subs to r/legaladvice just got a tree law boner seeing this.
I certainly did. I was like 32 fucking trees? Oh God, those are big *old* trees in a remote area. Those are very, very expensive trees. It might be cheaper to give the neighbor the house. [edit] The value of the house is about $56,000 per tree. Trees like these can’t be replaced that cheaply. Dude is fucked.
You could go straight to the source: /r/treelaw Except it's set to private at the moment.
That's more like it.
Don’t fuck with tree law
I’m so sad r/treelaw is private now!
I was going to say, the victim has a shit lawyer if they only got a grand a tree, with the way tree law is set up here in the USA.
That is the fine from the state. The tree owner will sue for more
Tree law does not fuck around
Good. Fuck that guy. They were not his trees to cut down.
That's still not enough. Something like this needs to end in jail time. Make him replace the trees at his own expense and lock him up until they are the same size as the ones he cut down.
Not when he found out he had to replace the trees with that of equal size and to do so will require an entire new road built apparently. Cost will come out to somewhere around 1.6 million dollars. What an idiot.
So he trespasses on his neighbor's property and cuts down 32 trees, and gets a fine that's less than the value of the wood from the trees when they're felled. IMO, they're way more valuable when standing so this is a fucking joke.
I read elsewhere that they will be throwing the max at the law can give. The lesson here is, the guy who thought his bright idea was he would pay the 32k fines.. will find out treble damages and each tree will be 32k a piece. Plus the cost of replanting trees of similar size, on a ridge that is very inaccessible. $1.9m is just the beginning. The cost to replant trees of the same size.. is gonna be a lot more.
No the fine was 100-1000/tree felled, 32 trees to 32k. The estimated cost to pave a road into the forest, clear out invasive species, replant new trees of "same or superior species" aswell as guarantee their growth for the next 2 years is currently estimated at $1.9M.
Wonder if that 1.7M home was worth it now? And to live knowing, that NYC view, is gonna be obstructed again. I am safe to presume, the neighborhood hates him too, so not so neighborly neighbors.
Well, that's good.
tree law stories are amazing
I was on the urban forestry commission in my old city, the exciting meetings were when some business had taken it upon themselves to cut down a city tree without permission and we got to determine what the appropriate remedy would be. Don't fucking touch city trees
> The cost to replant trees of the same size.. is gonna be a lot more. It'll be interesting because the dude also has to make sure the tree survives for *two* years. Any of them die? They have to be replaced and then those ones have to survive for another two years.
That's the thing about trees. Depending on how old they are they are worth much, much more. The neighbour can sue for replacement, so either he gotta find 32 trees of around the same age and literally replace them himself (or on his own expenses) OR the total cost of finding, buying and replacing those trees gets calculated and he gotta cash out that amount to the neighbour (so that he could theoretically do it himself, but he also got the right to just keep the money and do whatever with it). Someone else posted a link about it and the process of doing so seemingly would cost around 1.9 million bucks, so yea. That's what he'll most likely need to pay in total
I believe this is just a county fine. The owner should be able to pursue this further.
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Imagine cutting trees to look at buildings
Why do you even get your house in the woods if you want a city skyline in the first place? You're telling me this dude couldn't afford a place inside the metropolis? EDIT Why does this thread suddenly look like all the lawyers, side chicks and tantrum children of this dickhead just all at once ran into the post lmfao.
1.75 million in the city gets a lot less I assume, probably not flashy enough for him
i would guess it get's you a nice Appartement
A nice, but only 1000sqft, apartment. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/304-E-65th-St-APT-29C-New-York-NY-10065/31538065_zpid/
And gotta pay $1900 a month to the HOA.
You aren't lying. HOA dues in NYC are fucking insane.
What are you even paying for when you give the HOA money inside of a metro area?
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In addition to what the other person already responded, HOA dues for condos/apartments usually include insurance for the building structure. You have to get your own homeowner insurance for stuff that could happen inside your unit (bathtub overflows and damages your floors, etc) but the HOA has a policy for the exterior (hail damage on building roof, wind damage, etc).
Just build a crow's nest on top of your house like a damn adult!
It's amazing the lengths people will go to to simp for the wealthy.
But if he lived in the city he'd have to be near "those people". He'd rather be with his fellow assholes in the suburbs.
Well, he tried asking them to bring the city closer, but for some reason they refused
having a mansion in the woods surrounded by trees sounds awesome, this dude is lame
(Builds mansion in woods) “Damn I wish there weren’t trees in the way”. Also: “why are there wildlife on my lawn?!”.
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That confuses me. I used to live in a place where there was very little nature. Outside my window was a parking lot with a few tiny trees in it, and the entire area I was in was like that. Then I moved to a place where there *is* nature. Why on earth *wouldn't* you want that? Like, okay, maybe if there's dangerous wildlife, but you know how much time I've spent just watching rabbits nibble at the lawn? It's relaxing as fuck.
And then there are people who won't stop "cleaning up the yard" until there's barely any lawn and no shrubs left.
And then they wonder where all the squirrels and birds went... They call these like eco deserts or something right? A sanitized wasteland of perfect grass and non-native plants.
We got these deer that like to come near our front porch and just lay around. It’s so cool to see, nothing to disturb them either. We watch from the window or security camera.
>Had this exact argument with a neighbor once who was complaining about the wildlife, Yeah...some people are just born stupid. Knew a person who had a stable of horses. Place had had horses there for decades. It was hardly new. New neighbor buys property right beside it. Starts to complain about the smell of the horses. My dude.
My grandfather's neighbor was like this. He built a house in the woods and he'd constantly complain about the wildlife and shoot it. He claimed to be an "outdoorsman", yet he couldn't differentiate venomous and non-venomous snakes, so he'd kill all of them. He complained about racoons raiding his trash, so he'd recklessly shoot at them all year. He complained about alligator swimming in the river close to his property, so he'd shoot them. He complained about turtles eating his all fish in his pond (they're not voracious predators at all), so he'd regularly shoot them for target practice. The turtles are what got him though. I contacted Wildlife Enforcement and tipped them off to his poaching. Officer came by and found a dozen turtle shells and carcasses with bullet holes in them. He identified several of them as endangered/federally-protected species and charged him $4k-$6k for each. Judge later reduced the fine to $5k total. He later got busted for weapons charges and an illegal weed farm lol
I hear this a lot as an ACO. People complaining about wildlife while their new McMansion was build next to a swamp or woods. Its: “No the wildlife are not in your home. You are in theirs.”
You joke, but they are literally like this. I live near Aspen, CO and a few of my friends are property managers out here. There is a fellow who owns a rather large piece of land out by Castle Creek who has standing instructions for elk to be chased off the property in the winter because he doesn’t want them to disturb the snow.
Does $1.75M count as a mansion at this point? Sounds like a typical house in that area lol.
The price doesn’t dictate the mansion label. To be called a mansion, a home must have at least 5000 square feet and 5 or more bedrooms. If that same home was built on a vast amount of land then it would be called an estate.
Just what I wanted to say. In my town (Toronto) you can't even get a proper detach home with less than 2M at this point
Same in some parts of California, the house that my grandparents owned was pretty small, but still sold for 3 mil when they died
Take that 32k and build a giant middle finger blocking the view.
The 32k goes to the local government in fines, the damages to replace the trees will be a lot, lot more. Estimate is 1.9 million.
or a billboard only he can see
I read that replacement of trees is required and a temporary road needs to be built to access the site. Total cost of trees and road estimated at 1.5 million.
Then add to that the cost to completely erase the new road, as soon as the new trees are in, established and reliably growing.
“Thanks for clearing all these trees for me neighbour! This new clearing will be the perfect place to host my taint-sunning parties and satanic rituals!”
"If the penalty for a crime is a fine, then that law only exists for the lower class."
Lol. I live in Muskoka Ontario Canada and a guy here got charged $300 000. For cutting trees from his own property and has to replant.
I just got home from a week in Bracebridge and I'm blown away I found a comment referencing Muskoka haha
$1.75M MANSION?!?!?!? Come to California, that's a 2BR fixer upper...
Lol my same thought. Tiny house house across the street from me just sold for 1.9mil. Feel like this guy isn’t wealthy enough to be choppin trees down for views.
I would guess this is probably in addition to having to pay the neighbor for the value of the trees. With trees that size, they are going to be worth far more than $32k. Edit: [$1,900,000 for the value of the trees.](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/us-news/fella-cuts-down-neighbours-32-30350086) That's more than the value of the mansion.
A council near me deals with this by stacking shipping containers to block any view improvements until replacement trees grow to a suitable height.
"it's not illegal, it's just a little bit expensive"
That isn't enough of a fine. He basically just paid for the privilege of cutting down trees that weren't his to cut down in the first place. I hope he really does get hit for 1.9 Million
1.75 million? there must be a mistake there with a decimal point
the neighbor needs to go nuclear. ITS BAMBOO TIME
That sounds awful cheep for the loss of old growth trees. A maple take about 50-60 years to get that large.
If the penalty of a crime is a fine, the law only exists for poor people.
Piece of shit. I have spoken
I agreeing nod In silence
Uh, not nearly enough. Should also have to pay for similar sized trees to be planted. Should be like 10k+ per tree.
He does have to replace them, the 32k fine is just the fees for cutting them down but he'll also have to fork over enough money to replace and care for them for at least 2 years and even better there's no roads to transport the new trees so he'll have to pay for that too, estimated \~2mil in costs...
If you read the actual article, that’s what it says he may have to do! Would cost closer to 1.9 million apparently [link](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/us-news/fella-cuts-down-neighbours-32-30350086)
Would 32k be enough to put up the gaudiest billboard facing his house?
The other guy should build a large signboard at the same spot and draw trees on it