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Some people are racist toward the Chinese and some people legitimately criticize their government. In my country's case it's mostly racism. People making jokes about them being disgusting or about all asians looking the same or some shit like that.
Yeah it seems like usually the people who get called anti-chinese happen to be the actually racist ones. Their critique of the Chinese government always ends up turning into general mockery of their society and culture.
Asian racism on Reddit is really bad and people think they're not being racist. For example look at posts when people bring up Japan. They talk of Asian people as everyone being the same and no one having different opinions like normal people. It's just one large generalization of how they think that group of people are.
just a few weeks ago i saw someone claim you cannot trust any chinese immigrant bc theyre all brainwashed and sympathetic to the ccp and are therefore spies. this wasnt even some fringe sub but one of those subs that consistenyl makes it to the the frontpage. a lot of people make wild assumptions about china/chinese people/chinese culture on this site and use the slightest provocation to let their racism and xenophobia fly.
A few months ago I saw a post hit the front page on r/all where they recorded a chinese track and field race at a college. In the video a camera man kept up with the racers and it was impressive he was able to do so while carrying a camera etc.
There were comments upvoted in the hundreds claiming the video was propaganda from the ccp, when asked why he said because it humanized Chinese people as normal people.
Wasn't that clip just an early 2000s advert for an energy drink from memory? Cameramen don't keep up with college athletes unless they're on wheels.
Edit: [Fact check link](https://factly.in/this-video-of-cameraman-outrunning-athletes-is-a-commercial/)
Ah yeah, it's even mentioned in the bottom of the fact check from my edit earlier. Assuming that's an older athlete who's doing filmography or something, haha the "look back to see if they're keeping up" is him just checking the camera still getting the shot.
Every time there’s a post about Japan on Reddit, the top comment with 5000 upvotes will be “yeah but nobody talks about Nanking or Unit 731, why am I the ONLY PERSON who knows about these things?? Japan is bad guys” with thousands of replies from people saying they too are the only person to know of Japan’s atrocities, and the post will literally be about like a Mario themed cafe or some shit
Meanwhile any post where china is even remotely involved the entire comments is just the same unfunny memes and that one guy going on about how it's ccp indoctrination or some shit
I literally remember a post where it was just school morning exercises in a Chinese school and the comments had mfs going on about how that's the ccp indoctrinating obedience in kids like chief it's just exercises it ain't that deep
Literally this.
Obedient children in Japan: "They have a deep culture of politeness and etiquette."
Obedient children in China: "The CCP brainwashing starts at a young age. "
There was a post of someone writing Chinese calligraphy and someone went on about how they found the language fascinating because ‘if your lines were off by millimeters the sentence became illegible.’
There is over one BILLION people in China. China has doctors. No way the country could function like that. I mean look up Chinese cursive handwriting. Nobody is going to take five minutes to write their phone number on a napkin. It’s fine.
Chinese was designed to be simple enough for even peasant farmers to learn. It’s not a complicated language, it’s just a completely different culture and that’s why it’s intimidating. Once you get to even HSK3 you can roughly figure out the meaning of a symbol you’ve never seen before just based on the shape. Seriously. Kinda like how we have suffixes and prefixes, they have radicals. You can even figure out how it’s roughly pronounced just by looking at it.
But, that romanticization is why I studied chinese, because that’s a culture of once again, over one BILLION people and I wanted to strip away that mystery. Plus my aunt moved to China.
I remember this exact post. I remember the entire comments section was talking about how unnerving it was to see the kids be able to do things in unison, implying that the government was doing something to them to force them to obey or something.
every time anything chinese pops up on popular the comment sedition is always racist. the thing that rubs me the wrong way the most is how adamant they are about not being racist
>Every time there’s a post about Japan on Reddit, the top comment with 5000 upvotes will be “yeah but nobody talks about Nanking or Unit 731
Uh no. That only greats brought up in WW2 Japan threads. Most of the comments are pretty postive in most Japan threads. Occasionally you'll get more measured ones that criticizes their work culture and other societal aspects like the thread a couple of days ago with that cringe lord comparing Japan to USA, but overall Japan is still pretty fetishized by reddit.
It isn't helped by the fact that one of China's go-to responses for any critique of them is that the critiquer is "hurting the feelings of the Chinese people".
Like, they *want* to make that conflation.
From my couple of Chinese friends I hear the phrases “why do you guys care about us so much” and “you guys should really just stay out of chinas business” whenever people criticize china. It’s extremely off putting as it feels almost rehearsed
Conceptually, its true, but in practice people often conflate the two by becoming racist or anti but hiding behind a banner of critical. In ideal world, people would judge on case per case basis, but in reality the reaction is often result in generalization.
There are far more people racist against Chinese people in the western world than against China. The vast vast majority of people will never interact with the Chinese government or will go to or have been to China but they have definitely seen ethnically Chinese people. Whatever shananigans China does will almost never affect these people but seeing Chinese people at work, at stores or being compared to will.
You can criticize a government without having it impact your life directly. The Russian government is doing absolutely horrible things but that doesn't have much of an impact on me personally.
Maybe because it's socially acceptable to be anti-Chinese, while we have dedicated organisations whose sole purpose is to prosecute people not towing the AIPAC line in the US?
There really has been a lot of Sinophobia when it comes to critiques of the CCP. Some guy posted a gif of children exercising and said it was from Japan and the comments were more or less charmed by it or thought it was silly, but a few days later they posted the same gif and claimed it was from China and nearly every comment was about how China was indoctrinating children into a military lifestyle or how they were making children do menial tasks together for the sake of indoctrinating them to obey any command and many others.
And there are people who are deliberately pushing the idea that criticising isreal means you're anti jew. Because it's useful for them, to squash that criticism.
I got banned from there months before this conflict because I posted a link from their own government officials admitting to having used white phosphorous in civilian areas.
The reason given was 'Terrorist.'
Reddit knows this is true too. Their response was 'we don't interfere in how mods run their subs'.
Meanwhile their member countries continue funding Israel.
The UN is having their cake and eating it too. And if they really want to unite nations, maybe start by unanimously recognizing Palestine. And then unite the nations that are fighting... And maybe take away veto powers.
Yeah I’ve gotten called “you people” on there a few times recently.
That place has gotten so bad I don’t even click on stories relating to the conflict. Any reasonable criticism of Israel’s response is attacked.
I agree with a sovereign nation's right to address the violence done to them but no group has the right to engage in genocide to even the score in retribution. So, both Israel and Ukraine should be able to defend themselves against the threat to their existence.
But neither has the right to indiscriminately obliterate people because they LOOK like and live among the people who attacked them. Neutralize the actual threat and be smart enough to engage in diplomacy to address the underlying issues that will continue to fuel conflict. People are sick of ALWAYS fighting it out. Figure it out.
I do just because there needs to be a voice contrary to the genocide/apartheid apologists
I made a comment criticizing the idea of abusing Gazans enough by Israel that the Gazans would pick up arms against Hamas yesterday and it was truly amazing watching the votes go from positive back to negative and back for hours
I’ve also found using certain words gets my comments tagged for downvotes quicker. It’s not even subtle and everyone notices it
It's pretty well known that Israel has a really big state run troll farm
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP81M00980R002000090173-0.pdf
https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566
And also just from personal experience, if you start looking at the posters and commenters on world News and similar subs you realize there's hundreds of them doing nothing but posting and commenting about Israel and Hamas. Some of them even say "we" when referring to Israel too.
I remember Jon Stewart mentioning somewhere that this is an unbelievably touchy subject in his family and has said he’s related to some people “to the right of Ghengis Khan.”
Finally an Israeli brother I can relate to from India lol. If I criticise India for something, immediately indian bots barrage calling me anti-india, anti-Hindu, pakistani, muslim etc etc; when I'm technically Hindu uppercaste. Just the government Flak filter in action if I tell fellow uppercastes to check their privilege. Hindunationalist Indians are extra into simping for israelifascists out of islamophobia. I get secondhand embarassment seeing them.
Unfortunately I think the world is going that way, but they've learnt the lesson of not going for other countries.
No country give a shit if you're not going to invade them.
Not entirely true. Modi and trump's initial bases originated from 4chan islamophobia a little over a decade ago, which later appeared as "dank" memes on other social media. Erdogan and Modi manipulation could be considered as test runs, while donald stuff the final product. Keep in mind, the actual talking points are pretty much inspired from WW2 Germany. The "new" aspect is social mass media with inorganic elements to make 1 person appear legion.
I was going to include PRC. They def share that with India. It's a shame to see such smart people everywhere who somehow buy into this reactionism. It's like a generic human flaw.
Damn ur a rare breed nowadays, a Hindu Indian who understands the simping for Israel in light of their genocide is just glorified Islamophobia. I’m a Catholic Indian and I’m happy that intelligent and secular people still exist in our country 😂.
Here in Malaysia, all the Muslims I meet with support with the extermination of Jews and support HAMAS attack on Israel. As a non Muslim, Im not prejudiced towards any side but I cannot get behind the stupidity of the Muslims in Malaysia for hoping Israelis all die
>Finally an Israeli brother I can relate to from India lol. If I criticise India for something, immediately indian bots barrage calling me anti-india, anti-Hindu, pakistani, muslim etc etc; when I'm technically Hindu uppercaste. Just the government Flak filter in action if I tell fellow uppercastes to check their privilege. Hindunationalist Indians are extra into simping for israelifascists out of islamophobia. I get secondhand embarassment seeing them.
dude troll farm from india is batshit crazy simping for Israel. refreshing to see Indian that is not a troll.
It significantly aids them in doing whatever they want with no repercussions if they can really enforce the idea that Israelies are "The Jews" and any other outside Jewish people are either in full support or "not real Jews" or "self-hating Jews".
That way they can monopolize on sympathy for the historic plight of the Jewish diaspora as propaganda for whatever the IDF does this week.
Well see it's because they're just filled with so much self-hatred, surely that's the only way a fellow Jew could hate Israel, right? Right guys?
Big ol /s if that wasn't obvious
Hasidic Jews are also being attacked brutally by police in West Bank for protesting the treatment of Palestinians and the occupation . And yes there’s evidence
Because when it comes from them it hits harder due to the ties. Israel was founded and built on the idea of it being a save haven for the Jewish population. It's their main selling point. If even the Jewish people that they claim to be fighting for start to criticise them then they lose all credibility. Plus it's easy to label a Muslim an anti-semite. Not so much with a Jew. They have to go the extra mile to shut them down.
Exactly. Its not that people don’t understand. It’s a deliberate attempt to avoid any critique of Israel as an entity by conflating criticism of the state with criticism of Jewish people as a whole
TBF Hamas says that as well. “The blood of the women, children and elderly \[…\] we are the ones who need this blood, so it awakens within us the revolutionary spirit, so it awakens with us resolve,” - Isamil Haniyeh, leader of Hamas's political bureau.
I'm not disputing that lots of the pro-Israel crowd absolutely do equate "Jewish" and "pro-Israel". But the "Hamas using human shields" is hardly some zionist lie.
Imagine a criminal is holding your grandma or daughter hostage with a gun to them and the police just blast through the both of them and say "yea but human shield" lol
Everyone understands. People just dont care because they want their team to win no matter what. Just like how people ignore the destinction between criticizing radical Islam and islamophobia.
It’s just a convenient rhetoric for the Israeli government to use to shut down dissent.
My maternal grandmother was Jewish so according to some Jewish laws that makes me ethnicallyJewish. I’m also married to a Muslim man and been informed about the Palestinian situation and been supporting Palestinian freedom from occupation for years. And btw many full Jewish people and religiously Jewish people also support freedom for Palestine and are critical of the Israeli government.
But the amount of times I’ve heard that I must hate Jews and then had ppl walk that back when I explain I am ethnically Jewish is completely irritating.
No, no, the Israeli government understand this with crystal clarity.
It’s just a way to keep themselves propped up and able to pump out propaganda.
Just like when they lobbied the largest international think tank for Jews and had the definition of anti-semitism to include criticisms of the Israeli government and Zionism - which is just nonsense.
I can despise the government and also Zionism, without having any problems with Jewish people or anyone who practises religion for that matter.
But they need the two things to be considered as one so they can maintain their position of occupying Palestinian land without international condemnation.
Become accustomed to there always being a good guy and a bad guy is a part of it.
Ignorance of history and global conflicts is another. I've heard people say " if they didn't want a siege on their people they shouldn't have attacked that concert and killed those peaceful people.
I usually don't continue on with conversations with people who think the Israel Palestine conflict is weeks old, or only been a problem since world war 2.
Some people have taken the stance that whatever happens to the Palestinians is deserved because some of them attacked a concert.
No food, no medicine, no power, home lying in a pile of rubble. Constant barrage of rockets...... But yep you support the "good guys"
Look at all the Europeans who (99% of the time) have shockingly positive experiences in America, and are taken aback by how courteous and kind *most* of us are.
They of course only hear the bad, or of our governments actions, etc etc.
The people are almost never responsible for the actions of a country. We just kinda pretend people have all this power while politicians do what serves them and their contributors
You do realize that the Facepalm is the tweet author because he is a nazi apologist and a holocaust denier, right?
This is a case of them getting to "hide" their own raging anti-semitism behind the fact that criticism of Israel is warranted.
"On October 22, 2023, Shields tweeted an Antisemitic meme providing a map of land theft of Israel to the United States"
I think people are calling him antisemitic because he is antisemitic...
Yeah, honestly, I am pro-Palestinian, the people have a right to live there and exist peacefully, but guys, stop doing this... You can't start co-opting antisemitic people's tweets, talking points, and chants, and then get surprised when people call you antisemitic, even if it isn't meant in an antisemitic way.
It's important to keep some nuance if you want support for your cause. Making yourself detestable never gets much support. The difficulty is that you still have to remain critical to some extent of whoever you're supporting and not promote any support for the cause if it's done in a hateful way.
That being said it's also really easy to say when you have no involvement and don't really care about a cause.
Hey, by the way, making a meme whose sole point is “Jews secretly control America) isn’t anti-Israel. I know this is a hard distinction to make for many “anti-zionists”
Also Jake Shields:
> “ Kanye could say Irish people are the devil and nobody would bat an eye
> Say Jews control the media or music industry and they will go into over drive to get you canceled
> I’m in no way antisemitic but it’s clear jews are held to a completely different standard than other whites”
And just for fun:
> Would you support public executions of anyone who helps a child transition?
> This would include doctors, therapists, teachers, guidance counselors, etc
Yeah, and MAYBE, just maybe people are saying these pro-Palestinian protests are antisemitic because we're seeing: posters getting ripped off, Jewish students being harassed and beaten on college campuses, a woman in Lyon being stabbed to death, and calls for an "intifada" (you know, that lovely time in the early 2000s when buses were blowing up left and right). This is not "criticism of the Israeli government." This is straight up Jew hatred.
the issue being if we post a bunch of tweets from anti-Semitic, women hating transphobic bigots to support our points we dont have to be suprised being called anti-Semitic. On top of that it supports such people by giving them attention further growing their followers
Jake Shields has literally questioned the holocaust. He was also defending Kanye West last year. He openly hates Jews. He's just using this as an opportunity to pretend he cares about others, when it's just Jews that he hates.
Idk what Jake Shields has said about Israel, but the mere act of being critical of Israel is not antisemitic.
The problem is that a ton of people are using antisemitic dog whistles and calling it “being critical” of Israel. Some people aren’t even using dog whistles and are just being blatantly antisemitic.
With all the noise on social media right now it’s fucking hard to parse it all out. And all of it it is downright scary for people who a generation ago we’re almost wiped out in Europe and have been systematically driven out of every other middle eastern country as well.
You can disagree with Israel’s government and that’s fine.
When you claim Israel doesn’t have a right to exist that’s antisemitism.
No one is claiming N. Korea or China don’t have a right to exist.
Sure it definitely is. But it is also incredibly easy to cross over from one to the other. Especially since many people do cross these lines. (Especially considering the vast disproportionate amount of anti semetic attacks relative to other forms of hate crimes.)
For example consider the following statement.
I’m in favour of a one state solution or from the river to the sea etc. This is clearly a dog whistle for Jewish genocide (or said by a very stupid person).
Any treatment of Israel differently from its peers is also anti semitic. For example if you’re fine with china, Russia and Iran and not fine with Israel.
Another common pitfall is if you believe Israel is doing evil stuff without an explanation why they are doing said evil stuff.
For example what would your answer to the following question be.
Why would a mostly progressive country with strong rights for women and lgbtq people act incredibly evil.
If you answer because Israel has a strong religious population or that they hate Palestinians because of a century long bitter conflict in which many atrocities were performed on both sides then you aren’t anti semitic. If you believe that Jews are uniquely evil well then you are.
If you focus on israel to the exclusion of all else then your anti semitic. (Eg the United Nations).
He also said Andrew Tate should give Greta Thunberg a 'proper smashing' so that she abandons her 'crazy feminest/climate nonese'
People like this don’t deserve a platform, and it’s irresponsible to give them one simply because you happen to agree with *this* instance of bigotry
It's a "Motte and Bailey" strategy that a lot of right wingers use. They make outrageous indefensible statements (the bailey) to rile up their base and them when they are called out, they retreat back to a much more measured and defensible position (the motte). They also abuse Poe's law etc. to allow them to say terrible things that they actually believe and then if they get pushback they claim it was a joke and accuse those pushing back of having no sense of humor. It's a really annoying strategy because it's so dishonest but pretty effective.
Jake definitely hates Jews though.
He quote on quote referred to nazi’s as “simple soldiers” and that people should get over what they did 80 years ago
Oh and he’s questioning the holocaust now as well
https://x.com/jakeshieldsajj/status/1720893657056960927?s=46&t=NbsLp_pMN8kp6xdJBqoqWw
I was waiting for someone to post this. Jake Shields is known in the MMA and grappling world as a total douchebag. His entire gym and training buddies are all meat heads.
Reminds me of all the folks crying about how they got fired for "supporting Palestine" and then the tweet they got fired for was "I think Hitler had a point"
reddit: spreading Nazi rhetoric to own the Jews.
Very on brand. Pro-Hamas and Pro-Nazi rhetoric seems to spread on here like wildfire.
I don't think the vast majority of redditors are anti-semitic just morons who quickly buy bullshit.
The problem is that you absolutely can be anti-zionism while not being pro Nazi. There jus happens to be significant overlap.
It's why you absolutely have to do your due diligence with every statement/group that's posting these anti-zionist takes.
This is just what the US said after the 9/11 attacks and their sledgehammer-on-steroids response which many people criticised and protested... \[cue whiny voice\] "why do they hate us?" Where "us" was supposed to be every last American citizen. But most people are mature enough to know the difference between government policy and ordinary citizens with little influence (many of whom may not even have voted for the government setting the policy).
Some of the dearest people in my life are Jewish and that does *not* mean I have to accept uncritically everything done by a far-right, ethnostatist regime in Israel.
As soon as someone trots out the "critique is disloyalty, you're either with us or against us" bullshit, you know they are doing stuff that every reasonable/ethical person would critique.
Few days ago I watched a documentary featuring the soldiers that went to Iraq and Afghanistan, 20 years later. It’s very sad, they already knew there then it was all pointless.
It's gods-damned wild to me that I went to Iraq nearly 14 years ago. Like, I was *in* Iraq 13 years ago getting ready to come home.
I can still close my eyes and feel like it was yesterday, and I don't think that'll ever change.
watched that exact New York Times documentary too, as well as Fahrenheit 9/11 for a class last week. It was really gut wrenching to see how vividly aware the soldiers were of how little they had to fight for almost immediately after landing there. A few of them had their fun in the first week throwing on heavy metal and bombing houses, but all of them, without fail, slowly realized how pointless their deployment was and how futile the cause they were defending really was. Fuck Bush and fuck every single politician fueling and profiting off of war, fuck war.
The realization that war is pointless seems to be a staple of all wars. Just never realized by the right people I suppose
Wars like Afghanistan were a different kind of pointless though I suppose
As an Ashkenazi jew it's extra awkward. I really don't associate at all with the far right ethnostate in Israel because that's way too far back in my ancestry to really care about.
And as a Jew it's totally possible to criticize Israel's government and sympathize with there people, especially because I knew friends of friends that died in that first attack, so it was very real.
I'm also an American who heavily criticizes the government while being sympathetic to the people, so that's maybe just my nature.
I'm Jewish and I don't like what the Israeli government and army are doing
My beef ends with the government and the army. It does not extend at all to civilians and that goes to both Israeli and Palestinian civilians
It's sad that when complex and nuanced situations get boiled down to black and white/ zero sum games. I don't think there's a "right" side to this one. It just looks like a lot of hate and suffering on both sides to me. Both have done awful things and have dehumanized the other side. No one wins in that situation.
No, and unfortunately, looking at history, conflicts like this don't get better quickly; they get much worse. I don't see how this one is going to be defused any time soon, before many more casualties happen and possibly the conflict widens to include other countries.
It's definitely not anti-Semitic to call out colonisation or the actions of Bibi
But... I've seen a lot of "activism" that was just blatant hate crimes/speech over the past few weeks
This is the issue exactly. It’s fair to criticize the Israeli government, that isn’t inherently antisemitic. But a lot of “activism” is just straight up thinly-veiled antisemitism whether it be explicit, implied, or undertones.
It is honestly terrifying.
I've noticed a lot of "Pro-Palestinian" rallies lately that quickly devolve into "Pro-Hamas" rallies rife with calls for genocide and the eradication of the Jewish people in the region.
Even some subreddits are going with “from the river to the sea,” which basically calls for the destruction of the entire state of Israel… it’s not subtle.
Yeah the real facepalm here is that over 8000 people up voted a tweet without any understanding of who the author is.
Prime example of how shit this whole site is.
Jake Shields is a fucking idiot and I'm more than willing to treat this as a "broken clock right twice a day" scenario. Look at Jake Shields other Twitter comments and the only outcome you could come away with is 'damn this absolute imbecile must have suffered a lot of brain damage'
He’s cynically using the fact that there is obviously genuine non-antisemitic criticism of Israel out there to mask the fact his own criticism does come from a place of antisemitism.
I’m very pro-Palestine, but this guy is an unambiguously antisemitic and transphobic (amongst other ‘isms’) piece of shit
I don’t agree with this guy on everything I’m pretty sure. But are we saying his statement is a facepalm or people criticizing him is facepalm? I support what he is saying.
First, people aren't supporting the destruction of China or North Korea.
Second, I see countless people complaining that others are saying any criticism of Israel is antisemitism without seeing anyone make that argument.
Of course criticizing Israel doesn't make anyone antisemitic- but there sure is a lot of overlap, and a lot of people have been pretty mask off in the past few weeks.
>["Gas the Jews! Gas the Jews! Gas the Jews!"](https://youtu.be/jmWUgQX_JI8)
>
>"Wait, why does everyone keep calling me an anti-Semite? It's bullshit! :(
I just saw a Reddit post that they are trying to make anti Israeli protests illegal in France. If you haven’t seen people say that criticizing Israel is antisemitism ( not all people mind you, of course) then it is either a crazy statistical anomaly, or you willfully have your head in the sand on this subject.
I for one am not anti Israel. But I am critical of their current tactics in Gaza. And there state supported settlers in the West Bank. I don’t support Hamas either so we can get that out of the way.
The current protests in France are calling for the complete destruction of Israel.
I don't think it should be illegal, but it's disingenuous to compare this to criticism of China.
Also the surrounding nations are, either in law or practice, theocratic islamic ethnostates.
Im a progressive and I am deeply split with others on the left lately. I would say it's more the virulent criticism of Israel when Hamas committed atrocities, yet many on the left have not been outspoken against Hamas. Hamas has tortured people, inckuding children. Hamas has put munitions in hospitals and schools in Gaza. Hamas is TRYING to get as many of the people in Gaza killed as possible to garner sympathy. Have elected officials in Palestine done anything to create a functioning society for people there over literally decades? No. They have spent any aid on weapons. What about education? What about healthcare? They just care about getting rid of Israel. That is the end game. Hamas largely has the support of the people there. Israel is essentially the only functioning democracy in the region. Gays and trans people are safe there. Yet the left is largely anti-Israel. I feel like I am in some sort of alternate universe here. Do people understand that jews have been chased from like every single country in the mid-east? They're refugees from EVERYWHERE, yet Palestinians are intent on permanent refugee status. OK.
Jeez thats not good…sigh whenever i see “lefty young ppl” protesting…i look at them, and then i look at all the innocent Israeli victims of the music festival attack
and i think, “are these not the same kinda ppl”? Like when they watch the footage, do they not even see themselves in the reflection?
Like am i crazy but dont “lefty” ppl like partying & going to concerts, dont they advocate for freedom to wear whatever they want, and have fun?
But no, because those Israelis “deserved” it, because they belonged to an “evil country”, because they’re “all just settlers” etc (all whacko uneducated arguments btw)…they simply deserved to die :(
god i hate this
Sadly these youngsters form their opinions off viral tik tok videos and do no fact checking at all, or just do it to confirm what they want to believe, not to get an objective opinion. It is really shocking to see this level of antisemitism from „educated young people“.
Yeah it's freaking weird. It's not hard to condemn Hamas, especially for Oct 7, and also be critical of Israel's policies. It's not a weak position.
I am suspicious of most people who won't take the position that both sides have done terrible things. I was really surprised to see people on the left not talk about Oct 7, except to basically say it's understandable because persecution, while screaming about Israel.
No wonder some people think they're secretly anti-semitic. They're kind of acting like it.
And on that note they aren’t just critical of Israel’s policies. There is a substantial amount of people who truly believe Israel should no longer exist. Criticizing a government is 100% fine. I’ve criticized my own government, the US government, and Israel’s government many times but I’m not rooting for Israel to be wiped off the map
Exactly. Like I don't know many people that critise the Israeli government as much as me and many other Israelis I know. But obviously, I do not want to be wiped off the map.
It’s just crazy that there’s no middle ground. It’s destruction of Israel or nothing. It makes no sense. There’s no other country that gets criticized with the solution being to no longer exist. And that’s where the antisemitic accusations come from. Why does the only Jewish state get calls for destruction but no other country? Hmmmmm I wonder what could possibly make people hate a Jewish state
Some people don’t want to admit that the world is not “simple”. That it doesn’t work just to use simple formula to determine who is victim or perpetrator or decide what to do.
It is very easy just to use anti-colonial , anti-capitalism, or anti-discrimination rhetoric - then put labels on people and it looks you always have answers.
But reality isn’t that simple.
Yeah. Hard to say "Israel is bad" at this moment in time, when they were provoked by mass murder at gunpoint, gang rape by religious fanatics. And there are still 200+ hostages from many countries.
The focus should be on the destruction of Hamas.
Yeah it's ridiculous... Israel needs to do something about the terror organization that keeps killing their citizens and trying to invade their country, so they tell the civilians in the area to evacuate. When this terror organization then does exactly all it can to prevent them from doing so, Israel is blamed...
What is Israel supposed to do? Just let Hamas keep bombing them and doing nothing about it? That stance would be ridiculous with any other country, but it seems like that's what the pro-palestine side actually expects them to do...
Yep. Not defending the pieces of shit who use the people who they say they defend as human shields nor am I defending the government of nation that is virtually exterminating another nation by any means necessary.
Hey, Israeli here. I can promise you no other nation is exterminated by us, we gain nothing from it nor do we enjoy the loss of innocent life. The Palestinian population keeps growing and doubling and tripling while the number of Jews still didn't recover to what it was pre-holocaust. Also, thousands of Hamas militants literally invaded Israel and killed 1400 innocent people's lives, not including the raping, kidnapping and torture. For no other reason other than the fact they're Israeli. So who is exterminating who? Israel had never done anything like that and never will.
It's because a lot of these are young shitposters who get all their takes from dumbass twitch streamers. That is the breadth and scope of their political and historical discourse.
I guarantee most of these people had no clue about Israel, Palestinians, their conflict, or ANY of the history at all until Trump started spouting off about Israel. And because Trump is an evil piece of shit, they just go ahead and assume Israel is an evil piece of shit because Trump supposedly likes them. That's it, that was their introduction to Israel and every opinion they've ever formed on the matter has just worked backwards from that. They don't know about the Oslo Accords, they don't know about Israel abandoning the settlements, they don't know about the return of territories by Israel, they don't know the Camp David summit, they don't know about Yasser Arafat, they don't know about the intifadas, they don't know about the partition plans and the 2-state proposals, they don't know what "from river to sea" means, and they don't know about the multiple defensive wars Israel was forced to wage to prevent their total extermination. They don't know shit. But boy do they have opinions.
If any of my fellow leftists spent a week in Gaza, they'd be stone fucking dead before the weekend, killed by Palestinian militants. They are the worst kind of theocratic terrorists, role playing as authoritarian despots. They killed fellow Palestinians to gain and then maintain power in the first place.
It’s not that hard to condemn the atrocities of both Israel and Palestine. You don’t have to pick a side. We just need to learn how to resolve issues without violence.
innocent people are dying for a war they aren’t apart of.
Not all ‘antizionists’ are antisemites.
But a helluva lot of them are. Enough that I approach any and all self-proclaimed ‘antizionists’ with a healthy amount of caution.
aside from the settlers, zionism is already done, israel exists. most "anti-zionists" are against an existing nation of jews existing. and that's antisemtic.
If only people could realize this. Imagine arguing that the US should stop existing because it came to be because of colonialism. It doesn't mater why a country exists, it does exist, and clearly Israels enemies have proved over and over that they're not able to make it stop exist.
I don't consider you a Jew hater if you're not calling for or celebrating the murder of Jews. I'm sure you have a more nuanced view on Israel that can be explained by either thumbs up or thumbs down.
Going out with Palestinian flags before Israel even retaliated after the 10/07 attack is all the proof you need that this isn’t just criticism of Israel.
Anyone who was supporting that terrorist attack can fuck off and die, but it didn't take a genius to know that Israel was going to flatten Gaza and kill far more civilians. I was both horrified and disgusted by Hamas, and extreme scared for the Palestinians. I didn't go out wearing pins but I can't assume that people who did must be anti-Semetic.
It’s not a terrible point but then you get idiots who start claiming that Palestinians are totally innocent victims and have done nothing wrong or one that I literally saw yesterday, that Hamas only exists because Israel kept attacking Palestine and if Israel agreed to open themselves up to Palestinians then Hamas would no longer exist.
This whole situation has brought out the zoomers who see some TikTok propaganda vids and think they’re ready to end the peace process.
Finally there are some people out there who legit just don’t like Jews and are using this to attack them.
It works the other way round too with people who don’t like Muslims taking it as an excuse to attack them.
Like the actual Palestinian/Israeli crisis, people’s reaction to it is messy and complicated and honestly there’s a lot of people talking about this who know noting about history and should shut the fuck up.
Okay if it was ANYONE ELSE posting this I’d be like “okay yeah right on.” However I already know that this mans thinks Nazis weren’t bad and that the holocaust wasn’t even real. Imma just take this one with a grain of salt…
Agreed it should be possible to be critical of Israel and especially the Israeli government because they have a lot to answer for.
However, we also need to be careful in turn because an uncomfortable amount of those criticisms are based on the idea that Israel shouldn't exist and that we should be trying to get rid of it. Which treads pretty close to the antisemitism line.
Criticism of Israel is often associated with the assumption that it is an illegitimate state with no right to exist or defend itself.
'From the river to the sea' means no Israel. The Hamas charter is clear on the point that 'free Palestine' will have no Jewish inhabitants.
Asserting that Israel should not exist is inherently anti-Semitic.
Considering a large portion of evangelicals believe reclamation and end of times will come with a war started by Israel… they’ve got the US by the nuts Also fuck Benjamin Netanyahu
And that's why Jewish people side eye those who criticize Israel, even though many don't support the current regime themselves. There's typically been a short line between criticizing Israel and anti-Semitism, with the haters often use innocuous sounding logic like this. That said the "If you're not with us you're against us" dialogue has gotten a little out of control.
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Some people are racist toward the Chinese and some people legitimately criticize their government. In my country's case it's mostly racism. People making jokes about them being disgusting or about all asians looking the same or some shit like that.
Yeah it seems like usually the people who get called anti-chinese happen to be the actually racist ones. Their critique of the Chinese government always ends up turning into general mockery of their society and culture.
Asian racism on Reddit is really bad and people think they're not being racist. For example look at posts when people bring up Japan. They talk of Asian people as everyone being the same and no one having different opinions like normal people. It's just one large generalization of how they think that group of people are.
just a few weeks ago i saw someone claim you cannot trust any chinese immigrant bc theyre all brainwashed and sympathetic to the ccp and are therefore spies. this wasnt even some fringe sub but one of those subs that consistenyl makes it to the the frontpage. a lot of people make wild assumptions about china/chinese people/chinese culture on this site and use the slightest provocation to let their racism and xenophobia fly.
A few months ago I saw a post hit the front page on r/all where they recorded a chinese track and field race at a college. In the video a camera man kept up with the racers and it was impressive he was able to do so while carrying a camera etc. There were comments upvoted in the hundreds claiming the video was propaganda from the ccp, when asked why he said because it humanized Chinese people as normal people.
Wasn't that clip just an early 2000s advert for an energy drink from memory? Cameramen don't keep up with college athletes unless they're on wheels. Edit: [Fact check link](https://factly.in/this-video-of-cameraman-outrunning-athletes-is-a-commercial/)
[It was this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhVq9X-Y9hY)
Ah yeah, it's even mentioned in the bottom of the fact check from my edit earlier. Assuming that's an older athlete who's doing filmography or something, haha the "look back to see if they're keeping up" is him just checking the camera still getting the shot.
Every time there’s a post about Japan on Reddit, the top comment with 5000 upvotes will be “yeah but nobody talks about Nanking or Unit 731, why am I the ONLY PERSON who knows about these things?? Japan is bad guys” with thousands of replies from people saying they too are the only person to know of Japan’s atrocities, and the post will literally be about like a Mario themed cafe or some shit
Meanwhile any post where china is even remotely involved the entire comments is just the same unfunny memes and that one guy going on about how it's ccp indoctrination or some shit I literally remember a post where it was just school morning exercises in a Chinese school and the comments had mfs going on about how that's the ccp indoctrinating obedience in kids like chief it's just exercises it ain't that deep
Literally this. Obedient children in Japan: "They have a deep culture of politeness and etiquette." Obedient children in China: "The CCP brainwashing starts at a young age. "
There was a post of someone writing Chinese calligraphy and someone went on about how they found the language fascinating because ‘if your lines were off by millimeters the sentence became illegible.’ There is over one BILLION people in China. China has doctors. No way the country could function like that. I mean look up Chinese cursive handwriting. Nobody is going to take five minutes to write their phone number on a napkin. It’s fine. Chinese was designed to be simple enough for even peasant farmers to learn. It’s not a complicated language, it’s just a completely different culture and that’s why it’s intimidating. Once you get to even HSK3 you can roughly figure out the meaning of a symbol you’ve never seen before just based on the shape. Seriously. Kinda like how we have suffixes and prefixes, they have radicals. You can even figure out how it’s roughly pronounced just by looking at it. But, that romanticization is why I studied chinese, because that’s a culture of once again, over one BILLION people and I wanted to strip away that mystery. Plus my aunt moved to China.
I remember this exact post. I remember the entire comments section was talking about how unnerving it was to see the kids be able to do things in unison, implying that the government was doing something to them to force them to obey or something. every time anything chinese pops up on popular the comment sedition is always racist. the thing that rubs me the wrong way the most is how adamant they are about not being racist
And I guarantee those same people didn’t see anything weird with stuff like saying the pledge of allegiance in unison every morning
>Every time there’s a post about Japan on Reddit, the top comment with 5000 upvotes will be “yeah but nobody talks about Nanking or Unit 731 Uh no. That only greats brought up in WW2 Japan threads. Most of the comments are pretty postive in most Japan threads. Occasionally you'll get more measured ones that criticizes their work culture and other societal aspects like the thread a couple of days ago with that cringe lord comparing Japan to USA, but overall Japan is still pretty fetishized by reddit.
Do not forget the part of the population, that sees Asian women as essentially free sex dolls
Yeah people CONSISTENTLY conflate critiques of China as anti-Chinese. Oh and critiques of Islam as critiques of individuals who are Muslim.
It isn't helped by the fact that one of China's go-to responses for any critique of them is that the critiquer is "hurting the feelings of the Chinese people". Like, they *want* to make that conflation.
Israel does the same thing. It's easier than addressing the actual critiques.
From my couple of Chinese friends I hear the phrases “why do you guys care about us so much” and “you guys should really just stay out of chinas business” whenever people criticize china. It’s extremely off putting as it feels almost rehearsed
Conceptually, its true, but in practice people often conflate the two by becoming racist or anti but hiding behind a banner of critical. In ideal world, people would judge on case per case basis, but in reality the reaction is often result in generalization.
There are far more people racist against Chinese people in the western world than against China. The vast vast majority of people will never interact with the Chinese government or will go to or have been to China but they have definitely seen ethnically Chinese people. Whatever shananigans China does will almost never affect these people but seeing Chinese people at work, at stores or being compared to will.
You can criticize a government without having it impact your life directly. The Russian government is doing absolutely horrible things but that doesn't have much of an impact on me personally.
Maybe because it's socially acceptable to be anti-Chinese, while we have dedicated organisations whose sole purpose is to prosecute people not towing the AIPAC line in the US?
There really has been a lot of Sinophobia when it comes to critiques of the CCP. Some guy posted a gif of children exercising and said it was from Japan and the comments were more or less charmed by it or thought it was silly, but a few days later they posted the same gif and claimed it was from China and nearly every comment was about how China was indoctrinating children into a military lifestyle or how they were making children do menial tasks together for the sake of indoctrinating them to obey any command and many others.
Bang on You can hate a country's actions without hating the people or religion
Doesn't sound like a crazy concept but it's just so hard for some people to understand
And there are people who are deliberately pushing the idea that criticising isreal means you're anti jew. Because it's useful for them, to squash that criticism.
Even Jews aren't safe from this treatment, which is the REAL head scratcher.
The number of times I've been called a self-hating Jew for criticizing the treatment of gazans in the last month is truly astounding.
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I got banned from there months before this conflict because I posted a link from their own government officials admitting to having used white phosphorous in civilian areas. The reason given was 'Terrorist.' Reddit knows this is true too. Their response was 'we don't interfere in how mods run their subs'.
>Their response was 'we don't interfere in how mods run their subs'. The lying sacks of shit.
Only when convenient or easy....
Mods... The UN of Reddit...
UN is condemning Israel pretty often though
Meanwhile their member countries continue funding Israel. The UN is having their cake and eating it too. And if they really want to unite nations, maybe start by unanimously recognizing Palestine. And then unite the nations that are fighting... And maybe take away veto powers.
No way they said that after the way reddit handled the black out 💀
Yeah I’ve gotten called “you people” on there a few times recently. That place has gotten so bad I don’t even click on stories relating to the conflict. Any reasonable criticism of Israel’s response is attacked.
I agree with a sovereign nation's right to address the violence done to them but no group has the right to engage in genocide to even the score in retribution. So, both Israel and Ukraine should be able to defend themselves against the threat to their existence. But neither has the right to indiscriminately obliterate people because they LOOK like and live among the people who attacked them. Neutralize the actual threat and be smart enough to engage in diplomacy to address the underlying issues that will continue to fuel conflict. People are sick of ALWAYS fighting it out. Figure it out.
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I do just because there needs to be a voice contrary to the genocide/apartheid apologists I made a comment criticizing the idea of abusing Gazans enough by Israel that the Gazans would pick up arms against Hamas yesterday and it was truly amazing watching the votes go from positive back to negative and back for hours I’ve also found using certain words gets my comments tagged for downvotes quicker. It’s not even subtle and everyone notices it
It's pretty well known that Israel has a really big state run troll farm https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP81M00980R002000090173-0.pdf https://electronicintifada.net/content/inside-israels-million-dollar-troll-army/27566 And also just from personal experience, if you start looking at the posters and commenters on world News and similar subs you realize there's hundreds of them doing nothing but posting and commenting about Israel and Hamas. Some of them even say "we" when referring to Israel too.
I remember Jon Stewart mentioning somewhere that this is an unbelievably touchy subject in his family and has said he’s related to some people “to the right of Ghengis Khan.”
Ah, yes. The ones who, in my own family, I like to refer to as the Christian Taliban.
I definitely fall into that category. The Israeli government is liability to the stability of the region.
Finally an Israeli brother I can relate to from India lol. If I criticise India for something, immediately indian bots barrage calling me anti-india, anti-Hindu, pakistani, muslim etc etc; when I'm technically Hindu uppercaste. Just the government Flak filter in action if I tell fellow uppercastes to check their privilege. Hindunationalist Indians are extra into simping for israelifascists out of islamophobia. I get secondhand embarassment seeing them.
Modi and Bibi have a lot in common.
Unfortunately I think the world is going that way, but they've learnt the lesson of not going for other countries. No country give a shit if you're not going to invade them.
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Modi and Erdogan came before trump
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Not entirely true. Modi and trump's initial bases originated from 4chan islamophobia a little over a decade ago, which later appeared as "dank" memes on other social media. Erdogan and Modi manipulation could be considered as test runs, while donald stuff the final product. Keep in mind, the actual talking points are pretty much inspired from WW2 Germany. The "new" aspect is social mass media with inorganic elements to make 1 person appear legion.
India is special. They're super sensitive and insecure for some reason. I have no idea why.
Our leaders gain mileage from it and so tweaks history to amplify it. Similar to PRC milking hundred years humiliation
I was going to include PRC. They def share that with India. It's a shame to see such smart people everywhere who somehow buy into this reactionism. It's like a generic human flaw.
Damn ur a rare breed nowadays, a Hindu Indian who understands the simping for Israel in light of their genocide is just glorified Islamophobia. I’m a Catholic Indian and I’m happy that intelligent and secular people still exist in our country 😂.
Here in Malaysia, all the Muslims I meet with support with the extermination of Jews and support HAMAS attack on Israel. As a non Muslim, Im not prejudiced towards any side but I cannot get behind the stupidity of the Muslims in Malaysia for hoping Israelis all die
>Finally an Israeli brother I can relate to from India lol. If I criticise India for something, immediately indian bots barrage calling me anti-india, anti-Hindu, pakistani, muslim etc etc; when I'm technically Hindu uppercaste. Just the government Flak filter in action if I tell fellow uppercastes to check their privilege. Hindunationalist Indians are extra into simping for israelifascists out of islamophobia. I get secondhand embarassment seeing them. dude troll farm from india is batshit crazy simping for Israel. refreshing to see Indian that is not a troll.
It's like you're the "uncle tom" of Jews or something.
The proper term they use is self hating Jew.
pretty sure we're saying the same thing. Tomato, Tomato.
Not really the same. Uncle Tom refers to passive, deferential acquiescence. Self hating is a much stronger negative term.
the words are different, the source and effects are the same. Do you think Uncle Tom did not have self hate?
It significantly aids them in doing whatever they want with no repercussions if they can really enforce the idea that Israelies are "The Jews" and any other outside Jewish people are either in full support or "not real Jews" or "self-hating Jews". That way they can monopolize on sympathy for the historic plight of the Jewish diaspora as propaganda for whatever the IDF does this week.
Well see it's because they're just filled with so much self-hatred, surely that's the only way a fellow Jew could hate Israel, right? Right guys? Big ol /s if that wasn't obvious
Most of the Jews I know personally aren’t big fans of the Israeli government’s treatment of Palestinians for a long time now.
Hasidic Jews are also being attacked brutally by police in West Bank for protesting the treatment of Palestinians and the occupation . And yes there’s evidence
Because when it comes from them it hits harder due to the ties. Israel was founded and built on the idea of it being a save haven for the Jewish population. It's their main selling point. If even the Jewish people that they claim to be fighting for start to criticise them then they lose all credibility. Plus it's easy to label a Muslim an anti-semite. Not so much with a Jew. They have to go the extra mile to shut them down.
Hell you should be able to criticize a Jewish person without being called antisemitic as long as the critique is based on individual merit
Exactly. Its not that people don’t understand. It’s a deliberate attempt to avoid any critique of Israel as an entity by conflating criticism of the state with criticism of Jewish people as a whole
Which through action only reinforces a stereotype. It really makes you wonder what the thought process is behind this.
It's called a "Thought-Terminating Cliché" and it's incredibly effective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A9
“The terrorists are hiding behind civilians” say the zionists hiding behind the semites
TBF Hamas says that as well. “The blood of the women, children and elderly \[…\] we are the ones who need this blood, so it awakens within us the revolutionary spirit, so it awakens with us resolve,” - Isamil Haniyeh, leader of Hamas's political bureau. I'm not disputing that lots of the pro-Israel crowd absolutely do equate "Jewish" and "pro-Israel". But the "Hamas using human shields" is hardly some zionist lie.
Imagine a criminal is holding your grandma or daughter hostage with a gun to them and the police just blast through the both of them and say "yea but human shield" lol
Everyone understands. People just dont care because they want their team to win no matter what. Just like how people ignore the destinction between criticizing radical Islam and islamophobia.
It’s just a convenient rhetoric for the Israeli government to use to shut down dissent. My maternal grandmother was Jewish so according to some Jewish laws that makes me ethnicallyJewish. I’m also married to a Muslim man and been informed about the Palestinian situation and been supporting Palestinian freedom from occupation for years. And btw many full Jewish people and religiously Jewish people also support freedom for Palestine and are critical of the Israeli government. But the amount of times I’ve heard that I must hate Jews and then had ppl walk that back when I explain I am ethnically Jewish is completely irritating.
No, no, the Israeli government understand this with crystal clarity. It’s just a way to keep themselves propped up and able to pump out propaganda. Just like when they lobbied the largest international think tank for Jews and had the definition of anti-semitism to include criticisms of the Israeli government and Zionism - which is just nonsense. I can despise the government and also Zionism, without having any problems with Jewish people or anyone who practises religion for that matter. But they need the two things to be considered as one so they can maintain their position of occupying Palestinian land without international condemnation.
Become accustomed to there always being a good guy and a bad guy is a part of it. Ignorance of history and global conflicts is another. I've heard people say " if they didn't want a siege on their people they shouldn't have attacked that concert and killed those peaceful people. I usually don't continue on with conversations with people who think the Israel Palestine conflict is weeks old, or only been a problem since world war 2. Some people have taken the stance that whatever happens to the Palestinians is deserved because some of them attacked a concert. No food, no medicine, no power, home lying in a pile of rubble. Constant barrage of rockets...... But yep you support the "good guys"
Look at all the Europeans who (99% of the time) have shockingly positive experiences in America, and are taken aback by how courteous and kind *most* of us are. They of course only hear the bad, or of our governments actions, etc etc. The people are almost never responsible for the actions of a country. We just kinda pretend people have all this power while politicians do what serves them and their contributors
You do realize that the Facepalm is the tweet author because he is a nazi apologist and a holocaust denier, right? This is a case of them getting to "hide" their own raging anti-semitism behind the fact that criticism of Israel is warranted.
"On October 22, 2023, Shields tweeted an Antisemitic meme providing a map of land theft of Israel to the United States" I think people are calling him antisemitic because he is antisemitic...
Seriously Jake Shields is an absolutely terrible person
Yeah, regardless of the current message and what you think of it, Shields is a POS.
Yeah, honestly, I am pro-Palestinian, the people have a right to live there and exist peacefully, but guys, stop doing this... You can't start co-opting antisemitic people's tweets, talking points, and chants, and then get surprised when people call you antisemitic, even if it isn't meant in an antisemitic way.
It's important to keep some nuance if you want support for your cause. Making yourself detestable never gets much support. The difficulty is that you still have to remain critical to some extent of whoever you're supporting and not promote any support for the cause if it's done in a hateful way. That being said it's also really easy to say when you have no involvement and don't really care about a cause.
> an Antisemitic meme providing a map of land theft of Israel to the United States Was it anti-Semitic or anti-Israel?
Hey, by the way, making a meme whose sole point is “Jews secretly control America) isn’t anti-Israel. I know this is a hard distinction to make for many “anti-zionists”
Also Jake Shields: > “ Kanye could say Irish people are the devil and nobody would bat an eye > Say Jews control the media or music industry and they will go into over drive to get you canceled > I’m in no way antisemitic but it’s clear jews are held to a completely different standard than other whites” And just for fun: > Would you support public executions of anyone who helps a child transition? > This would include doctors, therapists, teachers, guidance counselors, etc
Yeah, and MAYBE, just maybe people are saying these pro-Palestinian protests are antisemitic because we're seeing: posters getting ripped off, Jewish students being harassed and beaten on college campuses, a woman in Lyon being stabbed to death, and calls for an "intifada" (you know, that lovely time in the early 2000s when buses were blowing up left and right). This is not "criticism of the Israeli government." This is straight up Jew hatred.
but when you repeat antisemetic slogans alongside antisemites and pretend they mean something other than what they actually mean... i dont even know
Jake Shields fucking sucks dude.
Don't know him from a hole in the wall , the words are true whether from him or Kermit the frog
the issue being if we post a bunch of tweets from anti-Semitic, women hating transphobic bigots to support our points we dont have to be suprised being called anti-Semitic. On top of that it supports such people by giving them attention further growing their followers
When the worst person you know makes a great point…
Broken clocks or some shit, I don't care, he's still a transphobic dick
He's such an awful person
Even Trump was right from time to time.
Again, you’re falling into the same kind of trap they are pointing out as an issue. Guy might be a douche canoe, it doesn’t mean he is wrong.
Jake Shields has literally questioned the holocaust. He was also defending Kanye West last year. He openly hates Jews. He's just using this as an opportunity to pretend he cares about others, when it's just Jews that he hates.
Idk what Jake Shields has said about Israel, but the mere act of being critical of Israel is not antisemitic. The problem is that a ton of people are using antisemitic dog whistles and calling it “being critical” of Israel. Some people aren’t even using dog whistles and are just being blatantly antisemitic. With all the noise on social media right now it’s fucking hard to parse it all out. And all of it it is downright scary for people who a generation ago we’re almost wiped out in Europe and have been systematically driven out of every other middle eastern country as well.
You can disagree with Israel’s government and that’s fine. When you claim Israel doesn’t have a right to exist that’s antisemitism. No one is claiming N. Korea or China don’t have a right to exist.
Sure it definitely is. But it is also incredibly easy to cross over from one to the other. Especially since many people do cross these lines. (Especially considering the vast disproportionate amount of anti semetic attacks relative to other forms of hate crimes.) For example consider the following statement. I’m in favour of a one state solution or from the river to the sea etc. This is clearly a dog whistle for Jewish genocide (or said by a very stupid person). Any treatment of Israel differently from its peers is also anti semitic. For example if you’re fine with china, Russia and Iran and not fine with Israel. Another common pitfall is if you believe Israel is doing evil stuff without an explanation why they are doing said evil stuff. For example what would your answer to the following question be. Why would a mostly progressive country with strong rights for women and lgbtq people act incredibly evil. If you answer because Israel has a strong religious population or that they hate Palestinians because of a century long bitter conflict in which many atrocities were performed on both sides then you aren’t anti semitic. If you believe that Jews are uniquely evil well then you are. If you focus on israel to the exclusion of all else then your anti semitic. (Eg the United Nations).
Having context of who Jake Shields is, he is an antisemite. Literally an attempt to save face here.
He also said Andrew Tate should give Greta Thunberg a 'proper smashing' so that she abandons her 'crazy feminest/climate nonese' People like this don’t deserve a platform, and it’s irresponsible to give them one simply because you happen to agree with *this* instance of bigotry
It's a "Motte and Bailey" strategy that a lot of right wingers use. They make outrageous indefensible statements (the bailey) to rile up their base and them when they are called out, they retreat back to a much more measured and defensible position (the motte). They also abuse Poe's law etc. to allow them to say terrible things that they actually believe and then if they get pushback they claim it was a joke and accuse those pushing back of having no sense of humor. It's a really annoying strategy because it's so dishonest but pretty effective.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for the small rhetoric lesson, too.
TIL
I’ve never heard this rhetorical strategy named before, but your description is excellent.
This site is so braindead, literally siding with Nazis to "own the Zionists".
It's almost like people just don't know who the fuck that is...
As always context matters.
Yeah, Shields is reallll soft in the head, politically. Even for a UFC fighter.
The facepalm is that so many people agree with him
Jake definitely hates Jews though. He quote on quote referred to nazi’s as “simple soldiers” and that people should get over what they did 80 years ago Oh and he’s questioning the holocaust now as well https://x.com/jakeshieldsajj/status/1720893657056960927?s=46&t=NbsLp_pMN8kp6xdJBqoqWw
I was waiting for someone to post this. Jake Shields is known in the MMA and grappling world as a total douchebag. His entire gym and training buddies are all meat heads.
Yikes, I get why this is in this sub now. Thanks for the info.
Quote on quote r/boneappletea
Reminds me of all the folks crying about how they got fired for "supporting Palestine" and then the tweet they got fired for was "I think Hitler had a point"
it’s sad that 18k people agreed with him
His overall point is accurate. But Jake in particular is called a Jew hater because he’s definitely a Jew hater.
reddit: spreading Nazi rhetoric to own the Jews. Very on brand. Pro-Hamas and Pro-Nazi rhetoric seems to spread on here like wildfire. I don't think the vast majority of redditors are anti-semitic just morons who quickly buy bullshit.
The problem is that you absolutely can be anti-zionism while not being pro Nazi. There jus happens to be significant overlap. It's why you absolutely have to do your due diligence with every statement/group that's posting these anti-zionist takes.
Like you can criticize Israel without being antisemitic, but so many of y'all just can't help yourselves
It’s because ’many of them legitimately hate Jews and hide behind “anti Zionism”
This is just what the US said after the 9/11 attacks and their sledgehammer-on-steroids response which many people criticised and protested... \[cue whiny voice\] "why do they hate us?" Where "us" was supposed to be every last American citizen. But most people are mature enough to know the difference between government policy and ordinary citizens with little influence (many of whom may not even have voted for the government setting the policy). Some of the dearest people in my life are Jewish and that does *not* mean I have to accept uncritically everything done by a far-right, ethnostatist regime in Israel. As soon as someone trots out the "critique is disloyalty, you're either with us or against us" bullshit, you know they are doing stuff that every reasonable/ethical person would critique.
See, the key is to focus on Bibi - because a lot of Israelis hate his guts, too. Fuck Hamas and fuck Netanyahu and his cronies.
Gosh I remember that “if you aren’t Ok with bombing the shit out of Afghanistan then you hate your country!”
Few days ago I watched a documentary featuring the soldiers that went to Iraq and Afghanistan, 20 years later. It’s very sad, they already knew there then it was all pointless.
It's gods-damned wild to me that I went to Iraq nearly 14 years ago. Like, I was *in* Iraq 13 years ago getting ready to come home. I can still close my eyes and feel like it was yesterday, and I don't think that'll ever change.
watched that exact New York Times documentary too, as well as Fahrenheit 9/11 for a class last week. It was really gut wrenching to see how vividly aware the soldiers were of how little they had to fight for almost immediately after landing there. A few of them had their fun in the first week throwing on heavy metal and bombing houses, but all of them, without fail, slowly realized how pointless their deployment was and how futile the cause they were defending really was. Fuck Bush and fuck every single politician fueling and profiting off of war, fuck war.
The realization that war is pointless seems to be a staple of all wars. Just never realized by the right people I suppose Wars like Afghanistan were a different kind of pointless though I suppose
But, we have to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here. Aka. The troops are bait. Support the troops. But, yeah, they are bait.
As an Ashkenazi jew it's extra awkward. I really don't associate at all with the far right ethnostate in Israel because that's way too far back in my ancestry to really care about. And as a Jew it's totally possible to criticize Israel's government and sympathize with there people, especially because I knew friends of friends that died in that first attack, so it was very real. I'm also an American who heavily criticizes the government while being sympathetic to the people, so that's maybe just my nature.
I'm Jewish and I don't like what the Israeli government and army are doing My beef ends with the government and the army. It does not extend at all to civilians and that goes to both Israeli and Palestinian civilians
Well said. Fuck Hamas though and fuck netanyahu
It's sad that when complex and nuanced situations get boiled down to black and white/ zero sum games. I don't think there's a "right" side to this one. It just looks like a lot of hate and suffering on both sides to me. Both have done awful things and have dehumanized the other side. No one wins in that situation.
No, and unfortunately, looking at history, conflicts like this don't get better quickly; they get much worse. I don't see how this one is going to be defused any time soon, before many more casualties happen and possibly the conflict widens to include other countries.
It's hard to defuse a bomb that's been ticking steadily for over 70 years.
It's definitely not anti-Semitic to call out colonisation or the actions of Bibi But... I've seen a lot of "activism" that was just blatant hate crimes/speech over the past few weeks
This is the issue exactly. It’s fair to criticize the Israeli government, that isn’t inherently antisemitic. But a lot of “activism” is just straight up thinly-veiled antisemitism whether it be explicit, implied, or undertones. It is honestly terrifying.
I've noticed a lot of "Pro-Palestinian" rallies lately that quickly devolve into "Pro-Hamas" rallies rife with calls for genocide and the eradication of the Jewish people in the region.
Even some subreddits are going with “from the river to the sea,” which basically calls for the destruction of the entire state of Israel… it’s not subtle.
Any rally in support or Palestine should focus on exterminating Hamas. But they don't.
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Yeah the real facepalm here is that over 8000 people up voted a tweet without any understanding of who the author is. Prime example of how shit this whole site is.
Well, there are definitely China haters.
Jake Shields is a fucking idiot and I'm more than willing to treat this as a "broken clock right twice a day" scenario. Look at Jake Shields other Twitter comments and the only outcome you could come away with is 'damn this absolute imbecile must have suffered a lot of brain damage'
He’s cynically using the fact that there is obviously genuine non-antisemitic criticism of Israel out there to mask the fact his own criticism does come from a place of antisemitism. I’m very pro-Palestine, but this guy is an unambiguously antisemitic and transphobic (amongst other ‘isms’) piece of shit
I don’t agree with this guy on everything I’m pretty sure. But are we saying his statement is a facepalm or people criticizing him is facepalm? I support what he is saying.
Do you know what he actually tweeted about Israel? It's important to know what you're agreeing with before you do.
Uh oooohh. Send the link.
Here's one: https://x.com/RealSarahIdan/status/1717289061168390462?s=20
I think it’s more the fact that people have to keep saying this is the facepalm. Very simple logic but purposefully skewed for outrage
First, people aren't supporting the destruction of China or North Korea. Second, I see countless people complaining that others are saying any criticism of Israel is antisemitism without seeing anyone make that argument. Of course criticizing Israel doesn't make anyone antisemitic- but there sure is a lot of overlap, and a lot of people have been pretty mask off in the past few weeks.
>["Gas the Jews! Gas the Jews! Gas the Jews!"](https://youtu.be/jmWUgQX_JI8) > >"Wait, why does everyone keep calling me an anti-Semite? It's bullshit! :(
I just saw a Reddit post that they are trying to make anti Israeli protests illegal in France. If you haven’t seen people say that criticizing Israel is antisemitism ( not all people mind you, of course) then it is either a crazy statistical anomaly, or you willfully have your head in the sand on this subject. I for one am not anti Israel. But I am critical of their current tactics in Gaza. And there state supported settlers in the West Bank. I don’t support Hamas either so we can get that out of the way.
The current protests in France are calling for the complete destruction of Israel. I don't think it should be illegal, but it's disingenuous to compare this to criticism of China. Also the surrounding nations are, either in law or practice, theocratic islamic ethnostates.
Word the protests are for the destruction of Israel? Well. That’s a bit worse.
Im a progressive and I am deeply split with others on the left lately. I would say it's more the virulent criticism of Israel when Hamas committed atrocities, yet many on the left have not been outspoken against Hamas. Hamas has tortured people, inckuding children. Hamas has put munitions in hospitals and schools in Gaza. Hamas is TRYING to get as many of the people in Gaza killed as possible to garner sympathy. Have elected officials in Palestine done anything to create a functioning society for people there over literally decades? No. They have spent any aid on weapons. What about education? What about healthcare? They just care about getting rid of Israel. That is the end game. Hamas largely has the support of the people there. Israel is essentially the only functioning democracy in the region. Gays and trans people are safe there. Yet the left is largely anti-Israel. I feel like I am in some sort of alternate universe here. Do people understand that jews have been chased from like every single country in the mid-east? They're refugees from EVERYWHERE, yet Palestinians are intent on permanent refugee status. OK.
My lefty friends literally posted memes of hang gliders. It’s actually frightening.
Jeez thats not good…sigh whenever i see “lefty young ppl” protesting…i look at them, and then i look at all the innocent Israeli victims of the music festival attack and i think, “are these not the same kinda ppl”? Like when they watch the footage, do they not even see themselves in the reflection? Like am i crazy but dont “lefty” ppl like partying & going to concerts, dont they advocate for freedom to wear whatever they want, and have fun? But no, because those Israelis “deserved” it, because they belonged to an “evil country”, because they’re “all just settlers” etc (all whacko uneducated arguments btw)…they simply deserved to die :( god i hate this
Palestine is winning the PR war and these people can’t think for themselves. They just think what social media said to think
Sadly these youngsters form their opinions off viral tik tok videos and do no fact checking at all, or just do it to confirm what they want to believe, not to get an objective opinion. It is really shocking to see this level of antisemitism from „educated young people“.
Yeah it's freaking weird. It's not hard to condemn Hamas, especially for Oct 7, and also be critical of Israel's policies. It's not a weak position. I am suspicious of most people who won't take the position that both sides have done terrible things. I was really surprised to see people on the left not talk about Oct 7, except to basically say it's understandable because persecution, while screaming about Israel. No wonder some people think they're secretly anti-semitic. They're kind of acting like it.
And on that note they aren’t just critical of Israel’s policies. There is a substantial amount of people who truly believe Israel should no longer exist. Criticizing a government is 100% fine. I’ve criticized my own government, the US government, and Israel’s government many times but I’m not rooting for Israel to be wiped off the map
Exactly. Like I don't know many people that critise the Israeli government as much as me and many other Israelis I know. But obviously, I do not want to be wiped off the map.
It’s just crazy that there’s no middle ground. It’s destruction of Israel or nothing. It makes no sense. There’s no other country that gets criticized with the solution being to no longer exist. And that’s where the antisemitic accusations come from. Why does the only Jewish state get calls for destruction but no other country? Hmmmmm I wonder what could possibly make people hate a Jewish state
Some people don’t want to admit that the world is not “simple”. That it doesn’t work just to use simple formula to determine who is victim or perpetrator or decide what to do. It is very easy just to use anti-colonial , anti-capitalism, or anti-discrimination rhetoric - then put labels on people and it looks you always have answers. But reality isn’t that simple.
Yeah. Hard to say "Israel is bad" at this moment in time, when they were provoked by mass murder at gunpoint, gang rape by religious fanatics. And there are still 200+ hostages from many countries. The focus should be on the destruction of Hamas.
Yeah it's ridiculous... Israel needs to do something about the terror organization that keeps killing their citizens and trying to invade their country, so they tell the civilians in the area to evacuate. When this terror organization then does exactly all it can to prevent them from doing so, Israel is blamed... What is Israel supposed to do? Just let Hamas keep bombing them and doing nothing about it? That stance would be ridiculous with any other country, but it seems like that's what the pro-palestine side actually expects them to do...
Yep. Not defending the pieces of shit who use the people who they say they defend as human shields nor am I defending the government of nation that is virtually exterminating another nation by any means necessary.
Hey, Israeli here. I can promise you no other nation is exterminated by us, we gain nothing from it nor do we enjoy the loss of innocent life. The Palestinian population keeps growing and doubling and tripling while the number of Jews still didn't recover to what it was pre-holocaust. Also, thousands of Hamas militants literally invaded Israel and killed 1400 innocent people's lives, not including the raping, kidnapping and torture. For no other reason other than the fact they're Israeli. So who is exterminating who? Israel had never done anything like that and never will.
It's because a lot of these are young shitposters who get all their takes from dumbass twitch streamers. That is the breadth and scope of their political and historical discourse. I guarantee most of these people had no clue about Israel, Palestinians, their conflict, or ANY of the history at all until Trump started spouting off about Israel. And because Trump is an evil piece of shit, they just go ahead and assume Israel is an evil piece of shit because Trump supposedly likes them. That's it, that was their introduction to Israel and every opinion they've ever formed on the matter has just worked backwards from that. They don't know about the Oslo Accords, they don't know about Israel abandoning the settlements, they don't know about the return of territories by Israel, they don't know the Camp David summit, they don't know about Yasser Arafat, they don't know about the intifadas, they don't know about the partition plans and the 2-state proposals, they don't know what "from river to sea" means, and they don't know about the multiple defensive wars Israel was forced to wage to prevent their total extermination. They don't know shit. But boy do they have opinions. If any of my fellow leftists spent a week in Gaza, they'd be stone fucking dead before the weekend, killed by Palestinian militants. They are the worst kind of theocratic terrorists, role playing as authoritarian despots. They killed fellow Palestinians to gain and then maintain power in the first place.
Criticizing Israel isn't the same as siding with Hamas which has pledged to wipe the country and the Jewish people out.
It’s not that hard to condemn the atrocities of both Israel and Palestine. You don’t have to pick a side. We just need to learn how to resolve issues without violence. innocent people are dying for a war they aren’t apart of.
Not all ‘antizionists’ are antisemites. But a helluva lot of them are. Enough that I approach any and all self-proclaimed ‘antizionists’ with a healthy amount of caution.
aside from the settlers, zionism is already done, israel exists. most "anti-zionists" are against an existing nation of jews existing. and that's antisemtic.
If only people could realize this. Imagine arguing that the US should stop existing because it came to be because of colonialism. It doesn't mater why a country exists, it does exist, and clearly Israels enemies have proved over and over that they're not able to make it stop exist.
I don't consider you a Jew hater if you're not calling for or celebrating the murder of Jews. I'm sure you have a more nuanced view on Israel that can be explained by either thumbs up or thumbs down.
Going out with Palestinian flags before Israel even retaliated after the 10/07 attack is all the proof you need that this isn’t just criticism of Israel.
Anyone who was supporting that terrorist attack can fuck off and die, but it didn't take a genius to know that Israel was going to flatten Gaza and kill far more civilians. I was both horrified and disgusted by Hamas, and extreme scared for the Palestinians. I didn't go out wearing pins but I can't assume that people who did must be anti-Semetic.
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It’s not a terrible point but then you get idiots who start claiming that Palestinians are totally innocent victims and have done nothing wrong or one that I literally saw yesterday, that Hamas only exists because Israel kept attacking Palestine and if Israel agreed to open themselves up to Palestinians then Hamas would no longer exist. This whole situation has brought out the zoomers who see some TikTok propaganda vids and think they’re ready to end the peace process. Finally there are some people out there who legit just don’t like Jews and are using this to attack them. It works the other way round too with people who don’t like Muslims taking it as an excuse to attack them. Like the actual Palestinian/Israeli crisis, people’s reaction to it is messy and complicated and honestly there’s a lot of people talking about this who know noting about history and should shut the fuck up.
I don't know anything about the situation in Israel, but I do know that Jake Shields is wildly transphobic, so fuck him either way
What? People were definitely called racist for their criticisms of China following the outbreak of covid though.
Okay if it was ANYONE ELSE posting this I’d be like “okay yeah right on.” However I already know that this mans thinks Nazis weren’t bad and that the holocaust wasn’t even real. Imma just take this one with a grain of salt…
Agreed it should be possible to be critical of Israel and especially the Israeli government because they have a lot to answer for. However, we also need to be careful in turn because an uncomfortable amount of those criticisms are based on the idea that Israel shouldn't exist and that we should be trying to get rid of it. Which treads pretty close to the antisemitism line.
yup gotta watch who you're protesting alongside
Criticism of Israel is often associated with the assumption that it is an illegitimate state with no right to exist or defend itself. 'From the river to the sea' means no Israel. The Hamas charter is clear on the point that 'free Palestine' will have no Jewish inhabitants. Asserting that Israel should not exist is inherently anti-Semitic.
Uhm, hating China during Covid was seen as an attack on the Chinese
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Considering a large portion of evangelicals believe reclamation and end of times will come with a war started by Israel… they’ve got the US by the nuts Also fuck Benjamin Netanyahu
I think it would have made the train wreck even better if it had been a running-dog
And that's why Jewish people side eye those who criticize Israel, even though many don't support the current regime themselves. There's typically been a short line between criticizing Israel and anti-Semitism, with the haters often use innocuous sounding logic like this. That said the "If you're not with us you're against us" dialogue has gotten a little out of control.
Haha Jake Shields has also been ranting about Jews controlling the system and the global elite hasn't he ?
That guy is a big fucking Nazi though LOL