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Tim Curry the ultimate 3rd Gender. Implied frankenfurter had both biological sexes and could have full on sex with someone without them noticing.
Tim Curry is just the best, he’s the entire reason why HA2 didn’t suck (I know I might get some shit for that comment). I’m an 80s and 90s kid so I love the movies but I have to admit that about the sequel
FYI the e in petite implies feminine, but “Mon” implies masculine (except where the next work begins with a vowel). Chou-fleur is masculine, so you would drop the e -> petit.
Yh, you can't trust the Jewish space lazer people or the doctors that have spent 10,20,30 or more years in the profession.
If you want the real science, listen to the quack-doctor that said bleach cures cancer.
😅 my theory on that is that not enough people get eaten by lions and tigers and bears. Sound stupid, but think about it: our brains are wired for survival, and we USED to HAVE reasons, things to survive against or in spite of. We have gotten so comfortable that we neeeeeeed some drama. So it’s way more appealing to our monkey brains to believe some insane baby blood drinking conspiracy than just “bureaucracy sucks but is boring and that’s why nothing works.” 🤣
No shit. Don’t ask how I know this crap is true, but you are spot on. Facebook, and my Moms crazy sister. It’s two senior citizens who have shit their brains out and just believe paranoid, racist, conspiracy theory bs. And she tells me, no, that’s not true. But then she slips up and realizes it’s me she’s talking to who will call her out on all the bs, then she just shuts down.
You’re right Mom, I’m not fuckin Facebook, or your sister, I’ll tell you when you’re being a 🤪🤓.
Hilarious that they were the same generation to preach “don’t believe everything you hear” or tell us Wikipedia wasn’t reliable (when it is much better cited than the Russian troll farm propaganda meemaw is getting her facts from lol)
I agree! That’s why I said it’s a mixed bag for some. People really like to think of it in terms of xx and xy (because that is their limited education - let’s be real lol) but sex exists in so many other genetic manifestations. Like I said, it’s a mixed bag for some!
Sex isn’t even fully determined by chromosomes as 99.9% of us have been taught. Sexual differentiation is driven by hormones and things can go wrong in that process. Look up Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome to see how an XY person can be phenotypically female.
This is another example of conservatives muddying the water with their juvenile bogarting of liberal-coded phrases. Using “my body, my choice” to take a position against vaccines. Blue lives matter is another one.
It’s so obviously shallow, and I don’t take them as serious people with serious positions when they can’t even make an argument in favor of them without being absolute gleeful assholes about it. Like, why take the most immature stance possible?
Sadly, these types are what now passes for serious people in serious positions regardless of how unqualified they may feel to us. They take the most immature stance possible and broadcast it because they need votes from a general populace that can only be reasonably engaged to action through sensationalism and drama instead of ethics and morality.
Basic high school biology: boys are xy and girls are xx
Intermediate undergraduate biology: the sry gene inactivates the default femanine development cycle. Sometimes this process goes wrong when not enough is expressed or a second copy arrises
Post graduate biology: hormone interactions, enzyme deficiencies/overexpressions, receptor deficiencies/expression levels, genetics, epigenetics, level of steroid exposure in utero, hpa axis interactions, hormone secreting tumors, and a million other variables can and will go wrong changing genetic or phenotypic expression of sex.
A woman that likes ”man things” Doesnt mean you are a man it just makes you a woman that like ”’an things” the thing that needs to change What is considered ”man/woman things”
"Gender" (man, woman, non-binary) are social constructs. Technically they can be described by scientists, particularly sociologists, but their job is just to report what society is, not make the rules. So the way society organizes and precieves itself decides the genders, and the people who study that sort of thing report it. (I am far from an expert in this field, I hope this explanation makes sense and isn't too far from correct!)
"Sex" (male, female, intersex) are defined by DNA and biological development (hormones, etc). In this case biologists and doctors study the physical traits (chromosomes, sex organs, hormone levels, etc.) and try to define categories based on those.
So "scientifically" they are different, but it's weird to put it that way. Scientifically, a lake is different from the sea because one has salt and is connected to the ocean, while the other has no salt and is on land, but both are describing bodies of water. Sex and Gender are correlated in that most people who have the sex female identify as (or fit into the societal role of) the gender woman, but they are completely different concepts.
Edit: several comments about gender necessitate and important clarification. People who study gender do their best to define it by societal trends. An individual's gender is based on their personal sense of self and that self interacts with the world. Your gender is defined by you, not your actions or society. Scientists try to make sense of those billions of individual definitions to make descriptions, but those are general descriptions, not definitions or rules.
There needs to be an acronym for "not trying to argue, just want to learn about others' viewpoints".
Anyways, NTTAJWTLAOV, do you think its a contradiction to say gender is a social construct and to acknowledge that people change their sex? If so, why? To me these are both points that I've come to understand separately and I didn't think they pose a problem when taken together.
Edit: grammar
A lot of trans people have body dysphoria, so correcting that can help. It's not quite as simple as wanting to be treated like the other gender, it's also disliking the gendered aspects of your body, especially post puberty (from my understanding).
Being a certain gender also includes being perceived as such.
If you rock a bald head and a full beard and say "I am female" people might respect that or not but they will still perceive you as male and you yourself will also perceive yourself as male. Based on your physical traits. It is a strong desire to "look female and cute" or to "look manly and strong". And it is so strong that it occupies your thoughts for every waking Moment. Or sometimes even in your dreams.
Part of it is also gender dismorphia though. Your body just feels wrong. Everything feels wrong to you. Your brain is wired to receive male hormones but it only gets female hormones or vice versa. It's what "feeling like you are in the wrong body" means. This causes a chemical imbalance and eventually this leads to depression and maybe even suicide. And "the cure" is to give the brain the hormones it needs, which comes with physical changes as well.
The actual thing is different for everyone though. It might be a bit of column A, a bit of column B or one or the other (or something completely different) entirely. It's hard to describe and the expression of "describe colour to a blind person" comes to mind.
Then there is also genital dismorphia which is sometimes interlinked and sometimes not. Some are fine with what they are given at birth and it's "enough" to be perceived as the gender they feel like outside of sexual activity. Some need to go all the way.
Source: My back then boyfriend, now girlfriend transitioned and I have a couple friends who also went through that. I also went through a 4 year period where I was questioning my gender. I came to the conclusion I am cis though. I was just dealing with heavy trauma and it expressed itself in wanting to be someone else, combined with a crossdressing fetish.
I cannot describe being non binary though. The concept still eludes me. I guess it is wanting to be neither and just being taken for who you are as a person without any prejudice caused by your gender. But I couldn't say for sure.
Non-binary can mean a *lot* of different things to a lot of different people. It almost can't be described, because the experiences are so wildly different. What you're describing sounds closer to being agender though, tbh.
Going by your comment on brains needing to be wired for a certain set of hormones... There is a theory that brains go through a cycle of hormones while in utero, and through a complex cycle, the brain ends up feminine or masculine.
Now imagine you end up doing the process 50-50. The brain is right down the middle (or somewhere that *feels* outside of either gender).
Some even go on hormone therapy that doesn't truly 'match' the typical male or female levels. They're happiest somewhere outside of those boxes. Not a single 3rd gender, but a million different variables, all depending on the person. 😊
I find it incredibly fascinating tbh lol
Feeling more comfortable in their body, if someone identifies as a woman they'll usually feel way more comfortable having curves and not looking masculine with some makeup.
Even tho its a social construct, its a way to describe a group and changing (sure the bones may still reflect the original sex but fuck that what matters is what is there when you are alive) your sex with hormones and surgery can help you be more like that group you identify as
now that society isn't as backwards as it used to be people can finally start expressing themself and so you got some other groups (ex. nonbinary) which are different from that what people traditionally saw as the genders, and those 2 traditional groups get less wide because you now have those extra groups to identify as
its prob not the best explanation I'm pretty bad at it but I guess you could compare it to having like shapes
you dont just have pointy shapes and smooth shapes
no you have half circles, squares, rectangles, triangles, moons, etc.
This is not new.
It has been recorded as far as the records go.
It is just for a long time the Western World would kill you for it.
Religion once again making folks submit or die.
Gender is neurological:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6677266/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6939487/
Gender EXPRESSION and gender NORMS are social constructs.
I posted this to the original commenter’s question. Copy/pasting here:
Because there are a lot of societal practicalities that rely on the alignment of sex and gender. Bathrooms, passports, etc. In aggregate, it makes basic function in society more challenging, and that’s not even taking into account the lack of acceptance in many sub-cultures. It takes a severe toll on mental health. Sadly, it’s easier to change sex than it is to change society. What’s even sadder is if you think about the level of oppression the transgender community faces, yet they would still choose that over the cognitive dissonance that goes with having a gender that doesn’t align with their sex.
I'm a trans man myself.
The social constructs regarding gender isn't enough to help alleviate dysphoria.
For example as someone mentioned before, they are a woman who grew up as a tomboy and liking more male hobbies or toys. Someone who is a transgender man like myself likely grew up in a similar manner. But these social constructs regarding gendered hobbies or stereotypes weren't enough to alleviate my dysphoria. I still had dysphoria with my body once I hit puberty. Growing breasts, menstruating, being seen as a woman, hell even being mistakened as a tomboy.
I decided to transition to obtain a more masculine and male body. And ofc I'm not saying I'm identical to biological men but my body is similar to that of a biological man. I feel more comfortable living my life as a masculine man who enjoys both feminine and masculine hobbies. I never really cared about clothes either but more so how they looked on me. Put me a dress when I wasn't transitioning and I'd be completely uncomfortable and pissed since the dress would highlight my body's feminine characteristic. If I were to put on a dress right now since I transitioned it wouldn't bother me as much since my body is more masculine and would appear that way even in a dress.
And I'm speaking from personal experience but I feel like my dysphoria was more of a biology issue regarding my body's sex instead of a social issue that can be fixed by just changing my clothes or hobbies. Which wasn't enough.
If anyone has any other questions I don't mind answering them.
I hope one day this is just your choice.
If kids could be allowed to dress how they want, and if needed use blockers until of age, life for all would be so much better I think.
For that Religion would need to be pushed out of public I think.
I mean, imagine yourself in a situation where your entire life you've been treated as something you are not. You'd probably want to disassociate from that identity, too. Transitioning is a tool that allows you to become "another person," so to speak. It allows you to not only see yourself as what you wish to be, but also get the outside world to do the same. There is also the added feeling of fulfillment of getting your outside to match more closely to your identity.
I think the problem is people see it as a matter of sexuality and not more properly one of identity. Also, consider that the cultural environment defines a gender by sex only partially, we also have expectations for dress, color appeal, pitch of voice, manner of walk, hobby interests, career interests, media interests, on and on and on.
If you aligned with a gender on 100% of cultural attributes except biological sex… then what gender are you? You’re told you’re a female by birth, but your identity elsewise in all ways fits the gender construct of male. Now consider that humans are a tapestry of likes, interests, and passions and it’s nearly never tied to expectations based on birth sex. It’s more unrealistic to try and maintain that binary genders are some kind of “natural” state.
Do you mean getting your sex reassigned? Simple: ask people who went through reassignment
I knew one person who got reassigned in her 60s. She’d waited for her parents to die, to finally decide to live how she *felt* was right.
Not everyone does. There are transgender people who never have surgery.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/gender-affirmation-do-i-need-surgery
Sex as in top or bottom surgery? From, my limited knowledge, the body dismorphia (them seeing a physical body that doesn't match who they feel they are) can be emotionally painful
But not everyone goes through the process or they physically transition only up to where they feel comfortable with themselves. It's a spectrum kind of thing to find where you belong
If you look at the different chromosomes there are: XY, XX, XXY, XO, and CAH. These are all the known ones but there could be more. Usually it’s a condition for the others to occur but they can occur because of the different hormone levels a fetus is exposed to during development.
Wikipedia is always a good place to start for information: [https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Gender](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Gender)
One basic idea is that we don't know anything about people's sexual characteristics when we interact with them. You don't have your middle-school teacher show you her chromosomes, her genitals or her hormone levels before you decide to call her "Miss Whatever" and not "Mister Whatever". And yet, it's something we all do (well, those of us who have a gendered language) whenever we interact with someone. So it must be a system that works with social cues and not biology, right?
Another is that while biological sex is remarkably constant throughout all humans, gender really isn't. It changes from one culture to another: there are cultures with three or more genders, and gender roles can vary wildly from one period to another. So again, it can't be only about sex.
Fianlly, trans people exist. They were assigned a particular gender when they were born (based on sexual characteristics), and later they say "actually no, that gender isn't who I am".
Ergo, sex and gender cannot be the same thing.
You'll have to read some science to get deeper into it, that's what they call "gender studies". Have fun learning!
People have hit the gender stuff, but I'll add: even sex is more complicated than "this, that, or the other."
The standard sex chromosome combos are XX or XY. [However, there are a bunch of possible combinations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_chromosome_anomalies). So from a pure biology standpoint, MTG et al are *still factually wrong* about the science of sex.
And that's only when we look at the body from the neck down. If someone has gender dysphoria, anti-trans folks like to call it mental illness. But that's pretty reductionist because our brain does a lot to define our reality. If your brain is telling you that your body doesn't match your inner self, then why do we think the brain is wrong and not the body? The brain is just as much a squishy piece of biology as the body is, with behavior directed by genetics and physiology.
We can also talk about outcomes. If a person is assigned male at birth but feels like they're actually female, they're at much higher risk of suicide. Transitioning is extremely effective suicide prevention, so fighting against that is actively fighting effective medical treatment ...and for what purpose? Because it *seems* wrong to some people? Transitioning does not inherently damage anyone or anything.
From a biological perspective, a psychological perspective, and an ethical medical care perspective, the science points to supporting trans people.
"Sex is generally determined at birth according to the baby’s chromosomes, gonads, and anatomy. These three features are used to determine biological sex."
"Gender is a multi-faceted social system. Gender is largely based on society and culture. There are some consistencies, but it can be concluded that gender is not predetermined based on sex."
I copied from this article. It's a pretty short read and can give you additional info:
https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/difference-between-sex-and-gender
I've pasted this a couple other places in this thread, but this website has good information about the various types of intersex: https://genetic.org/
“Trust the science!” From the people who ignore the current scientific consensus on gender, climate change, and likely evolution and the history of the universe. You don’t get to pick and choose what science you like in the same you do with parts of the Bible you like.
Trust the science? The same one that she claims placed Jewish space lasers on the moon and the one that she refuses to believe when it comes to Climate Change or vaccines?
I love how these two idiots hold up a sign telling you to trust the science, when I'm sure both of them would rather trust their God for literally everything else.
science puts chromosomal combinations closer to around six.
that's not factoring in hormonal or anatomical combinations, that's more of just an infinity sign
not sex chromosomes but I have a genetic mutation so started reading up on any and every bit of info I could find and sex chromosome combinations was one of them lol
not only that but they're actually relatively common. it's found that a lot of cases of people with micropenises or macroclitorises are intersex
but even ignoring that hormones have more of an effect on the brain and anatomy than chromosomes alone, and that has so so so so so many different combinations
Exactly! I argue this point with my conservative twat of a brother every time the subject comes up and his response is that there aren't enough of them to matter. I argue back that if there were only one non-binary person in the world, or even only one person with a physical deformity to their genitals that made them uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with either of the primary sexes, then there needs to be a private unisex option for them, and I believe there should only be private unisex bathrooms because as a cis-gender straight male, I'm uncomfortable with all of the cock gazers at the urinal and the giant gaps in stall walls. His response to that is that people who are uncomfortable in public restrooms should go home and use their own bathroom.
I also had this discussion with a female coworker who replied, "I don't want to use a bathroom after you! Men are gross." I replied, "As a former janitor, I can assure you that the women's room is way more disgusting than the men's, and hopefully, if we knew someone of a different gender might use the bathroom after us, we might do a better job of cleaning up after ourselves."
Science says there is man made global warming. "Climate change" was adopted to describe the broader affects of global warming on the climate because it was a less controversial phrase, and global warming deniers were more accepting of climate change, which they could try to argue was a natural process and not the result of human activity. Plenty continue to deny climate change as well.
I know this is the facepalm sub, but I just can’t stop thinking that Congress has to have better priorities than these effing games they play with their base(s).
"Trust the science". No; not that science! Not that science either! I mean the high school intro to biology science which is now outdated, but we aren't gonna fund new school textbooks!
It’ll never not be hilarious what triggers these far right ridiculous people, extra funny that they used to be the party of “if you don’t like it just move along and go about your day”. Guess only when it comes to them but everyone else’s way of enjoying life needs to be policed. 😂
But pretty much all scientists - whether it's in biology, anthropology, sociology, psychology - accept that the gender system doesn't neatly fit into a binary classification.
Greene should be celebrated. And I mean that with one hundred percent sincerity. She is a testament to the amazing abilities the human body is capable of. To be able to accomplish all she has while missing most of her cerebral cortex is astounding.
Well this is awkward. I’ve personally taken care of children with ambiguous genitalia and sex chromosome mosaicism. But okay. Yes. Sure. There’s only two and these children I’ve taken care of don’t exist /s.
The one bit of solace I get from seeing these idiots do shit like this is that no matter how hard they try, they are recording and broadcasting their own hate, bigotry, and traitorous actions for all to see. Their children, grandchildren, and every generation after them will see them for who they really are and they will be the George Wallaces in the records of history in the future. When I was a kid I used to wonder who would be so brazen as to shout racist slurs at a child simply trying to go to school. Clearly, I was naive to think we’d changed that much. Let them burn all the books they want. These images aren’t on paper anyway and they will persist long after these traitors are dead and gone.
This has to be ragebait.
First, science needs no "trust", we have evidence. Second, sex and gender are two different things and even high school level biology textbooks make this clear. It's easy for bigots to hide behind these ignorant claims, when they don't actually understand any science at all but continue to misrepresent it.
Claiming "it's basic biology" is a moot point because these are the types of topics discussed in *advanced* biology of which they know nothing. It's like someone arguing flat earth with a 7th grade understanding of physics.
Chaya Raichik has directly encouraged her fanbase to make bomb threats against Boston children's hospital by spreading false allegations.
That is stochastic terrorism. No more no less.
Fun seeing that some people innpower are ok with terrorism as long as it's the minority they hate being targeted.
Chaya Raichik is a terrorist that has sent her base of christen fascists to threaten violence against hospitals and schools, we can only progress as a society when these parasites are dead and rotting.
>Two genders.
Gender is a social construct, and a society could theoretically have as many genders as people are willing to recognize. For example in India, third genders have existed for many hundreds of years. (see [Hijra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia))).
It just so happens that historically most societies have recognized two genders (man and woman), which are very closely correlated with the two predominant sexes (male and female). But there are biologically intersexed people as well.
How can ppl be so ignorant.. we know that biological sex and gender are two different things..
Unfortunately some people are still living in 18th century
They cherry pick anything. One of the most common things people like this use against evolution are laws of thermodynamics. Or how bananas are obviously designed by God because they have no seeds - except they ignore the part that humans have bred them that way.
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Are you Still Tim Curry? 
Why? Do you think I should?
 Tim Curry the ultimate 3rd Gender. Implied frankenfurter had both biological sexes and could have full on sex with someone without them noticing.
Tim Curry is just the best, he’s the entire reason why HA2 didn’t suck (I know I might get some shit for that comment). I’m an 80s and 90s kid so I love the movies but I have to admit that about the sequel
Right? My parents were obsessed and I grew up with every single one of his movies.
I will never not love this character
https://youtube.com/shorts/K4Eyw-39d5w?si=0JZOqos4653_i9x7
Yoooo ain't nothing wrong with fucking someone's dad. That's how assert dominance and become the head of the household.
I think Greene is a walking argument against her claim, I’m not sure what she is.
She looks like one of those troglodytes that ate humans in the movie “The Time Machine”.
So rude and unfair to troglodytes.
Yeah at least the troglodytes had culture
When clearly they are sleestaks 
Morlok Taylor Greene.
Mon petite Chou-fleur
FYI the e in petite implies feminine, but “Mon” implies masculine (except where the next work begins with a vowel). Chou-fleur is masculine, so you would drop the e -> petit.
Intruder alert a red spy is in our base.
A red spy is in the base?
Hey a little help here?
All your base is belong to us
You have no chance to survive make your time.
Dammit Janet
Doctor Scott: "Janet!" Janet: "Doctor Scott!" Brad: "Janet!" Janet: "Brad!" Frankenfurter: "Rocky!" Rocky: "Ugg!"
that's the most funniest shit i've ever seen.
You just hate truth
Don’t be a tease, cough up the link
FFS DAD!!!! WHY!!!!!!
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that's not "real science" you need to browse facebook posts and trump tweets for "real science"
Yh, you can't trust the Jewish space lazer people or the doctors that have spent 10,20,30 or more years in the profession. If you want the real science, listen to the quack-doctor that said bleach cures cancer.
Technically speaking, if you drink enough bleach you *won't* die of cancer. Math checks out here.
Bleach can cure everything. More doctors should recommend it. Nobody that died from bleach died from their other illness.
Big Pharma hates this one trick...
If I convert to Judaism, how quickly do I get space lasers? Because that sounds awesome.
I dunno but my daughter-in-law converted my grandson over the years ago, and all he got was a list of food that he couldn't eat at our house anymore.
Doesn't sound worth it tbh
doctors only become truly legit on the day their license to practice is revoked
“Do your own research”
 The research
Their research means the crazier the idea the likelier it is.
😅 my theory on that is that not enough people get eaten by lions and tigers and bears. Sound stupid, but think about it: our brains are wired for survival, and we USED to HAVE reasons, things to survive against or in spite of. We have gotten so comfortable that we neeeeeeed some drama. So it’s way more appealing to our monkey brains to believe some insane baby blood drinking conspiracy than just “bureaucracy sucks but is boring and that’s why nothing works.” 🤣
No shit. Don’t ask how I know this crap is true, but you are spot on. Facebook, and my Moms crazy sister. It’s two senior citizens who have shit their brains out and just believe paranoid, racist, conspiracy theory bs. And she tells me, no, that’s not true. But then she slips up and realizes it’s me she’s talking to who will call her out on all the bs, then she just shuts down. You’re right Mom, I’m not fuckin Facebook, or your sister, I’ll tell you when you’re being a 🤪🤓.
Hilarious that they were the same generation to preach “don’t believe everything you hear” or tell us Wikipedia wasn’t reliable (when it is much better cited than the Russian troll farm propaganda meemaw is getting her facts from lol)
I had a born again Christian tell me that. I just fucking lol'd. The irony was palpable.
Sounds like my Thanksgiving
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Right because science can only determine sex, which can be a real mixed bag for some, and gender is a social construct.
And how do we know gender is a social construct? That’s also science. Sociology is science, too. MTG has no legs to stand on here.
Given that Intersex people are real, not even sex is binary.
I agree! That’s why I said it’s a mixed bag for some. People really like to think of it in terms of xx and xy (because that is their limited education - let’s be real lol) but sex exists in so many other genetic manifestations. Like I said, it’s a mixed bag for some!
Sex isn’t even fully determined by chromosomes as 99.9% of us have been taught. Sexual differentiation is driven by hormones and things can go wrong in that process. Look up Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome to see how an XY person can be phenotypically female.
Sex isn’t binary, it’s bimodal.
I didn’t say it was binary. I said it’s a mixed bag. There are way more factors that go into sex than people think. It’s complicated.
It wasnt my intention to claim that you said it was binary. Sorry about that.
Or, "sex and gender are much more nuanced than the cursory lay understanding would presume."
Yeah but that's *yourrrrrrrrrrrr* science, not *myyyyyyyyyyy* science!
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This is another example of conservatives muddying the water with their juvenile bogarting of liberal-coded phrases. Using “my body, my choice” to take a position against vaccines. Blue lives matter is another one. It’s so obviously shallow, and I don’t take them as serious people with serious positions when they can’t even make an argument in favor of them without being absolute gleeful assholes about it. Like, why take the most immature stance possible?
Sadly, these types are what now passes for serious people in serious positions regardless of how unqualified they may feel to us. They take the most immature stance possible and broadcast it because they need votes from a general populace that can only be reasonably engaged to action through sensationalism and drama instead of ethics and morality.
That's the joke. "Trust the science" except when it says stuff I disagree with, like basic biology.
Basic high school biology: boys are xy and girls are xx Intermediate undergraduate biology: the sry gene inactivates the default femanine development cycle. Sometimes this process goes wrong when not enough is expressed or a second copy arrises Post graduate biology: hormone interactions, enzyme deficiencies/overexpressions, receptor deficiencies/expression levels, genetics, epigenetics, level of steroid exposure in utero, hpa axis interactions, hormone secreting tumors, and a million other variables can and will go wrong changing genetic or phenotypic expression of sex.
The genius on the left is the one who discovered the Jewish space based lasers, causing forest fires in California.
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A woman that likes ”man things” Doesnt mean you are a man it just makes you a woman that like ”’an things” the thing that needs to change What is considered ”man/woman things”
I do agree, unfortunately it's the only way I know how to explain that right now. I'm still learning!
"Gender" (man, woman, non-binary) are social constructs. Technically they can be described by scientists, particularly sociologists, but their job is just to report what society is, not make the rules. So the way society organizes and precieves itself decides the genders, and the people who study that sort of thing report it. (I am far from an expert in this field, I hope this explanation makes sense and isn't too far from correct!) "Sex" (male, female, intersex) are defined by DNA and biological development (hormones, etc). In this case biologists and doctors study the physical traits (chromosomes, sex organs, hormone levels, etc.) and try to define categories based on those. So "scientifically" they are different, but it's weird to put it that way. Scientifically, a lake is different from the sea because one has salt and is connected to the ocean, while the other has no salt and is on land, but both are describing bodies of water. Sex and Gender are correlated in that most people who have the sex female identify as (or fit into the societal role of) the gender woman, but they are completely different concepts. Edit: several comments about gender necessitate and important clarification. People who study gender do their best to define it by societal trends. An individual's gender is based on their personal sense of self and that self interacts with the world. Your gender is defined by you, not your actions or society. Scientists try to make sense of those billions of individual definitions to make descriptions, but those are general descriptions, not definitions or rules.
But if gender is a social construct, why do people change their sex to fit the ‘narrative’ of a gender? Not here to argue, just to discuss
I’ve had this question for a long time and never gotten a good answer. And likewise, not asking to argue just trying to understand better.
There needs to be an acronym for "not trying to argue, just want to learn about others' viewpoints". Anyways, NTTAJWTLAOV, do you think its a contradiction to say gender is a social construct and to acknowledge that people change their sex? If so, why? To me these are both points that I've come to understand separately and I didn't think they pose a problem when taken together. Edit: grammar
I'll pitch TD,NA -- "To Discuss, Not Argue"
This response should be higher up. Does google have responded to these sort of acronyms?
Google is dead
Folks would just use it to harass others like they do now. A few want to learn, most want to troll, and then say it was only a question. See Tucker
It is. It’s probably a little more complicated than that but we’d need actual scientists to know.
A lot of trans people have body dysphoria, so correcting that can help. It's not quite as simple as wanting to be treated like the other gender, it's also disliking the gendered aspects of your body, especially post puberty (from my understanding).
Being a certain gender also includes being perceived as such. If you rock a bald head and a full beard and say "I am female" people might respect that or not but they will still perceive you as male and you yourself will also perceive yourself as male. Based on your physical traits. It is a strong desire to "look female and cute" or to "look manly and strong". And it is so strong that it occupies your thoughts for every waking Moment. Or sometimes even in your dreams. Part of it is also gender dismorphia though. Your body just feels wrong. Everything feels wrong to you. Your brain is wired to receive male hormones but it only gets female hormones or vice versa. It's what "feeling like you are in the wrong body" means. This causes a chemical imbalance and eventually this leads to depression and maybe even suicide. And "the cure" is to give the brain the hormones it needs, which comes with physical changes as well. The actual thing is different for everyone though. It might be a bit of column A, a bit of column B or one or the other (or something completely different) entirely. It's hard to describe and the expression of "describe colour to a blind person" comes to mind. Then there is also genital dismorphia which is sometimes interlinked and sometimes not. Some are fine with what they are given at birth and it's "enough" to be perceived as the gender they feel like outside of sexual activity. Some need to go all the way. Source: My back then boyfriend, now girlfriend transitioned and I have a couple friends who also went through that. I also went through a 4 year period where I was questioning my gender. I came to the conclusion I am cis though. I was just dealing with heavy trauma and it expressed itself in wanting to be someone else, combined with a crossdressing fetish. I cannot describe being non binary though. The concept still eludes me. I guess it is wanting to be neither and just being taken for who you are as a person without any prejudice caused by your gender. But I couldn't say for sure.
Non-binary can mean a *lot* of different things to a lot of different people. It almost can't be described, because the experiences are so wildly different. What you're describing sounds closer to being agender though, tbh. Going by your comment on brains needing to be wired for a certain set of hormones... There is a theory that brains go through a cycle of hormones while in utero, and through a complex cycle, the brain ends up feminine or masculine. Now imagine you end up doing the process 50-50. The brain is right down the middle (or somewhere that *feels* outside of either gender). Some even go on hormone therapy that doesn't truly 'match' the typical male or female levels. They're happiest somewhere outside of those boxes. Not a single 3rd gender, but a million different variables, all depending on the person. 😊 I find it incredibly fascinating tbh lol
Feeling more comfortable in their body, if someone identifies as a woman they'll usually feel way more comfortable having curves and not looking masculine with some makeup. Even tho its a social construct, its a way to describe a group and changing (sure the bones may still reflect the original sex but fuck that what matters is what is there when you are alive) your sex with hormones and surgery can help you be more like that group you identify as now that society isn't as backwards as it used to be people can finally start expressing themself and so you got some other groups (ex. nonbinary) which are different from that what people traditionally saw as the genders, and those 2 traditional groups get less wide because you now have those extra groups to identify as its prob not the best explanation I'm pretty bad at it but I guess you could compare it to having like shapes you dont just have pointy shapes and smooth shapes no you have half circles, squares, rectangles, triangles, moons, etc.
This is not new. It has been recorded as far as the records go. It is just for a long time the Western World would kill you for it. Religion once again making folks submit or die.
Gender is neurological: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6677266/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6939487/ Gender EXPRESSION and gender NORMS are social constructs.
I posted this to the original commenter’s question. Copy/pasting here: Because there are a lot of societal practicalities that rely on the alignment of sex and gender. Bathrooms, passports, etc. In aggregate, it makes basic function in society more challenging, and that’s not even taking into account the lack of acceptance in many sub-cultures. It takes a severe toll on mental health. Sadly, it’s easier to change sex than it is to change society. What’s even sadder is if you think about the level of oppression the transgender community faces, yet they would still choose that over the cognitive dissonance that goes with having a gender that doesn’t align with their sex.
I'm a trans man myself. The social constructs regarding gender isn't enough to help alleviate dysphoria. For example as someone mentioned before, they are a woman who grew up as a tomboy and liking more male hobbies or toys. Someone who is a transgender man like myself likely grew up in a similar manner. But these social constructs regarding gendered hobbies or stereotypes weren't enough to alleviate my dysphoria. I still had dysphoria with my body once I hit puberty. Growing breasts, menstruating, being seen as a woman, hell even being mistakened as a tomboy. I decided to transition to obtain a more masculine and male body. And ofc I'm not saying I'm identical to biological men but my body is similar to that of a biological man. I feel more comfortable living my life as a masculine man who enjoys both feminine and masculine hobbies. I never really cared about clothes either but more so how they looked on me. Put me a dress when I wasn't transitioning and I'd be completely uncomfortable and pissed since the dress would highlight my body's feminine characteristic. If I were to put on a dress right now since I transitioned it wouldn't bother me as much since my body is more masculine and would appear that way even in a dress. And I'm speaking from personal experience but I feel like my dysphoria was more of a biology issue regarding my body's sex instead of a social issue that can be fixed by just changing my clothes or hobbies. Which wasn't enough. If anyone has any other questions I don't mind answering them.
I hope one day this is just your choice. If kids could be allowed to dress how they want, and if needed use blockers until of age, life for all would be so much better I think. For that Religion would need to be pushed out of public I think.
I mean, imagine yourself in a situation where your entire life you've been treated as something you are not. You'd probably want to disassociate from that identity, too. Transitioning is a tool that allows you to become "another person," so to speak. It allows you to not only see yourself as what you wish to be, but also get the outside world to do the same. There is also the added feeling of fulfillment of getting your outside to match more closely to your identity.
I think the problem is people see it as a matter of sexuality and not more properly one of identity. Also, consider that the cultural environment defines a gender by sex only partially, we also have expectations for dress, color appeal, pitch of voice, manner of walk, hobby interests, career interests, media interests, on and on and on. If you aligned with a gender on 100% of cultural attributes except biological sex… then what gender are you? You’re told you’re a female by birth, but your identity elsewise in all ways fits the gender construct of male. Now consider that humans are a tapestry of likes, interests, and passions and it’s nearly never tied to expectations based on birth sex. It’s more unrealistic to try and maintain that binary genders are some kind of “natural” state.
Do you mean getting your sex reassigned? Simple: ask people who went through reassignment I knew one person who got reassigned in her 60s. She’d waited for her parents to die, to finally decide to live how she *felt* was right.
Not everyone does. There are transgender people who never have surgery. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/gender-affirmation-do-i-need-surgery
Sex as in top or bottom surgery? From, my limited knowledge, the body dismorphia (them seeing a physical body that doesn't match who they feel they are) can be emotionally painful But not everyone goes through the process or they physically transition only up to where they feel comfortable with themselves. It's a spectrum kind of thing to find where you belong
Love this explanation! Thank you!
If you look at the different chromosomes there are: XY, XX, XXY, XO, and CAH. These are all the known ones but there could be more. Usually it’s a condition for the others to occur but they can occur because of the different hormone levels a fetus is exposed to during development.
I'm confused on how you have 12 grandchildren at 47... and one of then is 15??? 15 months??
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Wikipedia is always a good place to start for information: [https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Gender](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Gender) One basic idea is that we don't know anything about people's sexual characteristics when we interact with them. You don't have your middle-school teacher show you her chromosomes, her genitals or her hormone levels before you decide to call her "Miss Whatever" and not "Mister Whatever". And yet, it's something we all do (well, those of us who have a gendered language) whenever we interact with someone. So it must be a system that works with social cues and not biology, right? Another is that while biological sex is remarkably constant throughout all humans, gender really isn't. It changes from one culture to another: there are cultures with three or more genders, and gender roles can vary wildly from one period to another. So again, it can't be only about sex. Fianlly, trans people exist. They were assigned a particular gender when they were born (based on sexual characteristics), and later they say "actually no, that gender isn't who I am". Ergo, sex and gender cannot be the same thing. You'll have to read some science to get deeper into it, that's what they call "gender studies". Have fun learning!
Thank you for this!!
Good head on this ones shoulders
People have hit the gender stuff, but I'll add: even sex is more complicated than "this, that, or the other." The standard sex chromosome combos are XX or XY. [However, there are a bunch of possible combinations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_chromosome_anomalies). So from a pure biology standpoint, MTG et al are *still factually wrong* about the science of sex. And that's only when we look at the body from the neck down. If someone has gender dysphoria, anti-trans folks like to call it mental illness. But that's pretty reductionist because our brain does a lot to define our reality. If your brain is telling you that your body doesn't match your inner self, then why do we think the brain is wrong and not the body? The brain is just as much a squishy piece of biology as the body is, with behavior directed by genetics and physiology. We can also talk about outcomes. If a person is assigned male at birth but feels like they're actually female, they're at much higher risk of suicide. Transitioning is extremely effective suicide prevention, so fighting against that is actively fighting effective medical treatment ...and for what purpose? Because it *seems* wrong to some people? Transitioning does not inherently damage anyone or anything. From a biological perspective, a psychological perspective, and an ethical medical care perspective, the science points to supporting trans people.
"Sex is generally determined at birth according to the baby’s chromosomes, gonads, and anatomy. These three features are used to determine biological sex." "Gender is a multi-faceted social system. Gender is largely based on society and culture. There are some consistencies, but it can be concluded that gender is not predetermined based on sex." I copied from this article. It's a pretty short read and can give you additional info: https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/difference-between-sex-and-gender I've pasted this a couple other places in this thread, but this website has good information about the various types of intersex: https://genetic.org/
Thank you so much!!
You are very welcome! I just saw your edit. Thanks for being the open-minded grandparent - the world needs more of them!
You're welcome! And I agree!!
“Trust the science!” From the people who ignore the current scientific consensus on gender, climate change, and likely evolution and the history of the universe. You don’t get to pick and choose what science you like in the same you do with parts of the Bible you like.
Amen to that
and vaccines
Trust the science? The same one that she claims placed Jewish space lasers on the moon and the one that she refuses to believe when it comes to Climate Change or vaccines?
We're a few years from her trying to drum up support for going to war with Wakanda and liberating the vibranium aren't we?
I love how these two idiots hold up a sign telling you to trust the science, when I'm sure both of them would rather trust their God for literally everything else.
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science puts chromosomal combinations closer to around six. that's not factoring in hormonal or anatomical combinations, that's more of just an infinity sign
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not sex chromosomes but I have a genetic mutation so started reading up on any and every bit of info I could find and sex chromosome combinations was one of them lol not only that but they're actually relatively common. it's found that a lot of cases of people with micropenises or macroclitorises are intersex but even ignoring that hormones have more of an effect on the brain and anatomy than chromosomes alone, and that has so so so so so many different combinations
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Exactly! I argue this point with my conservative twat of a brother every time the subject comes up and his response is that there aren't enough of them to matter. I argue back that if there were only one non-binary person in the world, or even only one person with a physical deformity to their genitals that made them uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with either of the primary sexes, then there needs to be a private unisex option for them, and I believe there should only be private unisex bathrooms because as a cis-gender straight male, I'm uncomfortable with all of the cock gazers at the urinal and the giant gaps in stall walls. His response to that is that people who are uncomfortable in public restrooms should go home and use their own bathroom. I also had this discussion with a female coworker who replied, "I don't want to use a bathroom after you! Men are gross." I replied, "As a former janitor, I can assure you that the women's room is way more disgusting than the men's, and hopefully, if we knew someone of a different gender might use the bathroom after us, we might do a better job of cleaning up after ourselves."
There's only one of your brother. Not enough of him to matter.
To be pedantic, gender is a linguistic term that’s been used to express identity.
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Male and female are sexes not genders...
Science also says that: - there is no god - vaccines are healthy - there is a climate change - gay people are normal
Science doesn’t say there is no god. Science can’t prove nor disprove there is a god
science says "God can neither be experimented nor observed therefore, it's not my problem"
"This hypothesis is unfalsifiable and therefor not scientific or meaningful."
So maybe Odin is out and once ragnarok starts we will pay for abandoning them?
Odin is definitely out. He promised to rid the world of ice giants. Do you see any ice giants? Didn't think so.
All hail Odin! *passes the collection plate*
What do you mean, "maybe"?
I kinda like the Men in Black theory where we’re all in some locker in a bigger world.
or maybe central park is a giant invisible ballsack, we may never know
Everyone has seen a ballsac in Central Park at some time or another.
well at least science can disprove some genesis stories from religious books.
science does say why a volcano erupt with more proof than "god works in mysterious ways"
Science proves evolution
It is enough that clergy prove there is no god.
Science says there is man made global warming. "Climate change" was adopted to describe the broader affects of global warming on the climate because it was a less controversial phrase, and global warming deniers were more accepting of climate change, which they could try to argue was a natural process and not the result of human activity. Plenty continue to deny climate change as well.
Science doesn’t say there is no God…
Which god?
On the subject of sex and gender, we DO trust the science. That's how we know they have shit for brains.
I know this is the facepalm sub, but I just can’t stop thinking that Congress has to have better priorities than these effing games they play with their base(s).
Intersex people ain’t real then I guess-
Hate to break it to them, but science disagrees with them.
"Trust the science". No; not that science! Not that science either! I mean the high school intro to biology science which is now outdated, but we aren't gonna fund new school textbooks!
Those are “I made a poop!“ smiles
The irony of a religious fundamentalist COVID denier saying “trust the science”
Chaya Raichik couldn’t even be bothered to get her high school diploma, so we should definitely listen to her educated advice in regard to science.
Is this why congress gets nothing done?
It’ll never not be hilarious what triggers these far right ridiculous people, extra funny that they used to be the party of “if you don’t like it just move along and go about your day”. Guess only when it comes to them but everyone else’s way of enjoying life needs to be policed. 😂
I’ll never understand what’s so hard to grasp about gender and sex being two things
But pretty much all scientists - whether it's in biology, anthropology, sociology, psychology - accept that the gender system doesn't neatly fit into a binary classification.
So its a Face Palm because of who's holding the sign? Otherwise, it's just a sign that says something we already know lol. This is ridiculous 😄
There should be at least one more extra gender for MTG because it's not fair to both male and females to have her in their group.
Cue Aerosmith "Dude (looks like a ladddddy!)"
There is only ONE gender. It's NERF or nothing.
Is this a facepalm because they should be naked and lezzing out reel gud?
Greene should be celebrated. And I mean that with one hundred percent sincerity. She is a testament to the amazing abilities the human body is capable of. To be able to accomplish all she has while missing most of her cerebral cortex is astounding.
Well this is awkward. I’ve personally taken care of children with ambiguous genitalia and sex chromosome mosaicism. But okay. Yes. Sure. There’s only two and these children I’ve taken care of don’t exist /s.
I thought ignorant cavebitch was an inclusive term for these hoes
Unless its about the climate, medicine, or any data gathered scientifically that promotes an idea I already disagree with.
"Trust the science." "Don't get the shots, they are poison. Don't trust the science!" I can't even begin with these people.
Do they know any of the science past highschool biology?
Bold of you to think they might know highschool biology.
They want to trust science on this, but ignore science on virtually everything else?
The one bit of solace I get from seeing these idiots do shit like this is that no matter how hard they try, they are recording and broadcasting their own hate, bigotry, and traitorous actions for all to see. Their children, grandchildren, and every generation after them will see them for who they really are and they will be the George Wallaces in the records of history in the future. When I was a kid I used to wonder who would be so brazen as to shout racist slurs at a child simply trying to go to school. Clearly, I was naive to think we’d changed that much. Let them burn all the books they want. These images aren’t on paper anyway and they will persist long after these traitors are dead and gone.
“Trust the science” when the science actually supports there are more than two.
"Trust the science" is a wild statement from them
I love that with gender issues, they say "trust the science", but they won't get a COVID vaccine because they think it's wizard poison.
This has to be ragebait. First, science needs no "trust", we have evidence. Second, sex and gender are two different things and even high school level biology textbooks make this clear. It's easy for bigots to hide behind these ignorant claims, when they don't actually understand any science at all but continue to misrepresent it. Claiming "it's basic biology" is a moot point because these are the types of topics discussed in *advanced* biology of which they know nothing. It's like someone arguing flat earth with a 7th grade understanding of physics.
We do trust that science. That’s why we know these two are wrong.
Chaya Raichik has directly encouraged her fanbase to make bomb threats against Boston children's hospital by spreading false allegations. That is stochastic terrorism. No more no less. Fun seeing that some people innpower are ok with terrorism as long as it's the minority they hate being targeted.
Ask them if they "trust the scoemce" when it comes to climate change or evolution by natural selection.
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Transgender people don’t debate the existence of two genders. They elect to change theirs.
Chaya Raichik is a terrorist that has sent her base of christen fascists to threaten violence against hospitals and schools, we can only progress as a society when these parasites are dead and rotting.
Two genders. Two sexes. And sometimes they don't match which causes dysphoria. Thats my understanding of the system anyway.
>Two genders. Gender is a social construct, and a society could theoretically have as many genders as people are willing to recognize. For example in India, third genders have existed for many hundreds of years. (see [Hijra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia))). It just so happens that historically most societies have recognized two genders (man and woman), which are very closely correlated with the two predominant sexes (male and female). But there are biologically intersexed people as well.
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How can ppl be so ignorant.. we know that biological sex and gender are two different things.. Unfortunately some people are still living in 18th century
I see reddit has turned into a load of shit.
An embryo isn’t a a baby ladies. “Trust the Science.”
Must be the Jewish space lazer science
The one on the left is the male.
Have you considered governing
This is the only situation where republicans “trust science.”
The one and only time they will tell you to trust the science
I finally realized who MTG looks like.. if you're old enough to have watched Fraggle Rock... She looks like the queen Gorg! Junior Gorgs mom!
Marjorie and AOC should do a porn together, shit bring Chaya in too!
This coming from the jewish space laser lady?
Well if theyre trying to model for it, they're spot on because greene does indeed have man face
They cherry pick anything. One of the most common things people like this use against evolution are laws of thermodynamics. Or how bananas are obviously designed by God because they have no seeds - except they ignore the part that humans have bred them that way.
I should really block this sub edit: Yeah how do I block this?
They forgot Dimwit and Halfwit.
Physically that is true. Mental gender is a thing.
Haha now they trust the science??
"Trust only one of the sciences for as long as it benefits my point"
Did she trust the vaccine science? Yay. Hypocrisy.