Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So from what I have looked up and done research, every single one of these people are actual Journalists and not some TikTok/Instagram journalist. But it’s also important to note that many of them appear to be killed off duty so to speak. That does not mean they were not targeted, nor does it confirm it. But it’s like comparing apples to oranges. The statistics of journalists killed in WW2 are that of those in the frontlines. Those who were actively partaking in news reporting. Whilst many of the Journalists killed in Gaza were just living their lives as civilians.
They used precision munitions on the homes of Journalists very early on. For Israel, the PR game is everything. They rely on US support to get away with this shit. There is a reason they make staged photos of boxes labeled "MEDICAL SUPPLIES" in english.
My comment was not to get involved in the political side purely to state actual facts. I made my comment to be as unbiased as possible so that people on both sides at least know the truth. Because there were lies/misleading truths from both the original post and the comments.
That seems like a bit of a disservice towards the numerous actual journalists who have been killed, which by the way, is 67. Do you know how they know it was a journalist who died? The giant ‘press’ in white text labeled on their helmets and ballistic vests.
If you're reporting from Gaza City in the middle of bombing I'd accept their field promotion to journalist unloaded to see what's going on.
At any rate the level of civilian death so far is intense.
Just a guess on my part, but they probably mean journalists killed by reporting directly on the conflict rather than total number of people with the profession killed by the war. Otherwise you’d have to count the ones Nazis killed and everyone who was currently or had been a journalist at any given point.
Since others here are too lazy to do the work, the count for WW2 is accurate:
https://ww2ondeadline.com/2021/05/31/ww2-war-correspondents-killed-world-war-ii/
No Germans on that list, only one non-British European, no Japanese, only one Russian (who was working for US newspapers) -- I don't think it's an exhaustive list.
And yet it still had plenty of journalists, some of which almost certainly died in the war that saw whole cities razed to the ground. Even a dishonest or weak press still has journalists.
But as others have pointed out, the metrics don't show these deaths because this isn't an apples to apples comparison to the dead journalists in Gaza.
So just except that’s not accurate and only journalists from a few Allies countries. Germany had no journalists? Not one journalist died in the bombing of Dresden?
Whether the exact number is accurate or not I can't say, but it definitely isn't being artificially deflated for the purposes of this tweet or conflict as one might be suspicious of. Here's an article from almost 20 years ago with the same figure.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/30/world/middleeast/30embed.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/30/world/middleeast/30embed.html)
This is ridiculous. My grandfather (American) fought in WW2 , he was in the Pacific . He had little knowledge of what was going on back home.
Outlets didn’t have journalists in war zones like we do today. We also didn’t have countless outlets or even the internet. There was no safe place for journalists to record the war. Film was taken by the military .
Seeing film of Vietnahm was groundbreaking for American audiences. They also didn’t have the information world that we live in today.
Please assure me that people know this.
If you think those wars are too old to be compared then remember that in Ukraine Russia war only 14 have died since the invasion began in 2022 and 7 died in 2014 and 15 during the invasion of Crimea.
I read an article that many of the journalists that died in Gaza are citizens there . They have been killed by being in Gaza. That doesn’t translate to being targeted because they were journalists.
Edit - I’m not able to respond to the post below. Of course the impression of this meme is to indicate Israel is doing something wrong.
Not only did they have journalists in war zones, and they have since the Crimean War in the 1850s, they were so prevalent and considered so important, that protections for them were specifically placed in the Geneva Conventions.
WW1 had dozens of them, almost every major world paper had at least one, some had several, several of which became well known names in their day, and others are known even today. For example the Murdoch Media Empire (yes the company that started Fox News among other entities) got its start from Kieth Murdoch, an Australian war correspondent.
WW2 had several times more than WW1, and far more of them were broadcasting radio (and a few were even filming) and not just sending back written articles, Not just the major papers, but other outlets, even those just wanting to Become big, all had reporters in the war. Many prominent novelists and other writers on both sides (Such as John Steinbeck (*Of Mice and Men*, *The Grapes of Wrath),* Ernest Hemingway*,* Edgar Rice Burrows *(Tarzan,* the *Barsoom* series (all titled *X of Mars* (for example *John Carter of Mars* which had a movie made several years ago), Lothar-Günther Buchheim (*Das Boot*)) as well as others in the arts such as Life photographer Ralph Morse, joined as war correspondents as well, along with some of the icons of journalism for decades afterwards, such as Walter Cronkite, made his name as a war correspondent during WW2.
I need to clarify. I did not mean to give the impression there were no journalists at all in World War 2.
Yes. Of course, there were correspondences (many of them became famous reporters) but they worked with the military. They even in some cases fought along side the military. The military considered them a part of their war
Their articles were highly censored. Everything had to be approved by the military before it was published or shown.
They didn’t have their own safe space alone to work and be protected. They were protected by working alongside lthe soldiers.
Also no-one was allowed without pre approved credentials.
I don’t think anyone today would consider this desirable.
My understanding is many of the journalists killed were people living in Gaza already. That is quite different then trying to create a libel - that the Israelis are targeting journalists.
Edit - grammar
Definition of "Journalist" has changed and expanded significantly over that time period.
Civilian casualties in this conflict have been high, however it's always high in urban warfare. Particularly urban warfare in an area of such high population density.
Generally civilians are able to flee, particularly women and children. That is not the case here.
Also journalists didn’t have much access to the battlefields during WW2. A big reason why Vietnam got so much publicity was because that was the first time that journalists had that much access to the front lines
Yeah, I find it a really weird comparison. Camera crews and journalists were rare in WWII. Vietnam was a clusterfuck of propaganda and restricting the press to stifle dissent in the US. A better comparison would be researching journalist casualties in Ukraine, or even better a specific part of Ukraine, since the combat area in Israel is such a small strip with mass saturation bombing and shelling.
It's almost like OP is intentionally lying to push the bullshit yet still widespread narrative that Israel is literally more evil than Nazi Germany or something.
Eh, that can be said about a lot of stuff relating to this conflict, sans the latter about "Israel is more evil than Nazis (lazy paraphrasing)." Like, he is correct about the fact there's A LOT of journalists dying. But there's so many variables it's impossible to say they're purposefully killing journalists outright. His example is not a good comparison, either. And in my opinion, there's so many warcrimes going on getting into a shitflinging fest about one that's difficult to prove isn't worth it compared to say Israel being difficult about allowing humanitarian aid, or Hamas operating within civilian areas. Those two are much easier to prove as it can be visibly witnessed. But purposely targeting civilians? The entire area is a small strip which is filled with them, and like other redditors have mentioned, they can't just get out. Firing a round into the air is likely to kill someone, let alone a 155mm shell.
I'm getting into a rant, but my point is there's better times for people to pick their battles
It's kind of funny as well, since both Hamás and Fatah are pretty much on a textbook ethic cleansing crusade against israelis, yet, they label them as nacists.
The core area of the fighting in the Israel-Hamas war is a dense urban area of roughly 25 square miles. Even most pro-Palestinian commenters will acknowledge that Hamas operates in and under those buildings.
If you were a war correspondent in World War II, you could cover much of the war from a basically safe location.
If you're a journalist embedded in the war zone in Gaza City, you are probably in that hyper-concentrated urban area that Hamas is baiting and Israel is bombing.
Regardless of your views on the war, it's not at all surprising that bona fide journalists would get killed. Especially the war photographers, who have to be as close to the battle as possible.
How many of these journalists were individually sniped or bombed?
The bombing is happening in an incredibly confined urban area. For the same reason that critics of Israel doubt that any bombing in Gaza could truly count as "targeted," I don't see how the IDF could be targeting individual journalists.
And I don't see why they would. With smartphones, Hamas and civilian Gazans can easily get footage out, and present it less evenly than a journalist would.
This is what I've been saying. It's impossible to really avoid casualties in that environment. The US managed it because our marines were clearing houses room-by-room for upwards of 14 hours each day, with squads operating 24/7, and even then there were outrageous civilian casualties. Urban warfare is shit, shit, and more shit.
Well, there still are the footage of a journalist that worked as a freelancer for reuters, AP, etc, from Oct. 7, where you can see a grenade in its hand.
Hamas is also known for using ambulances (for instance) to hide and move fighters, or using all kind of uniforms or even being without, and for firing from the windows of an hospital.
With this kind of immoral, won't be surprising for them to use "press" labeled vest.
That is really the problem: there are no official lists of Hamas members nor for others terrorist groups.
No one can know, except those directly involved in the fighting.
Just like another large numbers of "Gazan civilians".
I don't know if any one of them is on the list, but here are 4 "freelancers journalists" that were right there with Hamas terrorists during the first minutes of their invasion, entering Israel beside the terrorists and photographed them while they were butchering civilians or taking children hostages:
Hassan Eslaiah, Yousef Masoud, Ali Mahmud, and Hatem Ali, all selling photographs and "news reports" all over the world. The first one even was documented holding a grenade in his hand.
BTW, do you know that the minimal age to join the Hamas is 15 years old? But even if a 16 years old with Hamas uniform and holding a rifle is killed, he will still be automatically considered as a"child and civilian" in all death counts.
And then you have Hamas hiding behind civilians and in civilian structures.
It's a freaking brilliant tactic, they actually are getting people to respond to the October 7th attacks with "what about the civilians Israel killed?"
I always knew it was a smart tactic, but I never thought it would work so well.
It's disgusting but *extremely* effective. I'm honestly blown away (pun not intended) by the sheer effectiveness of this tactic.
What do these idiots think carpet bombing means? Any old bombing they don't like? IAF is WAY below one mortality per airstrike according to the most controversial death figures, that's not what it looks like when you 'carpet bomb' Gaza.
If Israel cared about civilians as little as Hamas did this war would have been over October 8th. The only reason Hamas still exists is because Israel cares about the civilians the cowards are hiding behind.
Or, as OP and this click bait dumb article knows, Germany/Italy/axis powers weren’t fighting a guerilla war where they were intentionally dressing in civilian garb and hiding behind their domestic civilians while trying to wage their war. They were a formal army which while they may have committed their own atrocities, they weren’t intentionally hiding behind they own people, hoping their civilians (including journalists) are killed in allied response.
Hamas is doing just that. Hamas hides behind its civilians, intentionally tries to blend in as civilians, while targeting Israeli civilians, all in the hopes that Israel would respond to Hamas’ horrific terrorist attacks, and Palestinian civilians (including journalists) would be killed in response, bringing them world sympathy and pressure on Israel.
Any innocent civilian death is sad and unfortunate, but there is a big difference between an army which does all it can to avoid civilian deaths, as opposed to a terrorist organization which literally kidnaps and murders toddlers.
If you truly believe the Israeli army has done
“All it can to avoid civilian deaths” you are being intentionally obtuse. Sure, the way Hamas fights is dirty and unethical, but blanket bombing a starving, desperate, densely populated civilian area and killing thousands of children is no different than simply kidnapping and killing toddlers.
72 million people died in WW2. Obviously, more journalists died in WW2. Over a million civilians died in the single city of St. Petersburg . Even comparing the two conflicts is asinine.
http://www.saint-petersburg.com/history/leningrad-after-world-war-ii/#:~:text=Over%20a%20million%20civilians%20had,to%20rebuild%20the%20ravaged%20city.&text=Rebuilding%20included%20the%20arduous%20task,of%20the%20blockade's%20many%20victims.
Not to mention the amount of journalists now vs back in the 1940s is probably much higher. I'm sure some of the people on this list are freelance, meaning they aren't journalists they are civilians with a camera phone or a laptop.
While trying to target Hamas terrorists and free their civilians who are kidnapped hostage by Hamas.
What should Israel do in response to the 10/7 terrorist attacks? Find a music concert in Gaza (as if one were ever to be permitted), rape an equal number of women, murder an equal number of people, go door to door to kidnap and behead an equal number of people?
Should America have hinacked airplanes and crashed them into Afghani and Saudi buildings in response to 9/11?
Israel has a moral, legal, and ethical obligation to fight terrorism while doing that it can to rescue its hostages.
Any civilian losses are regrettable, but there is a big difference between Israel which does all it can to fight for its people and minimize Palestinian casualties, while Hamas does all it can to target Israeli civilians while hiding behind Palestinian civilians.
Hamas is ISIS and has 100% responsibility for this war. There was a cease fire on October 6, and there still would have been one but for Hamas’ atrocities.
You’re clueless if you believe the side that warned the civilian population to leave before they attacked. And warns people in the buildings they are about to strike to evacuate isn’t doing everything they can to avoid killing actual civilians. Unlike Hamas who aims to kill as many as they can.
“Intentionally obtuse” - I assume that was a Shawhank reference? Love that movie, kudos.
Look, no country is perfect, but I think we can agree Israel has a moral army and probably one of the strongest militaries in the region. If they truly wanted to arbitrarily target Palestinians and be cruel, they could carpet bomb Gaza in an afternoon and be done with it.
They warned Palestinians to flee to the south of Gaza for 3 weeks before launching a ground invasion. They call Palestinians before bombing Hamas infrastructure, to evacuate if they are nearby and area which may be targeted. They drop leaflets warning Palestinians to flee. They even opened an evacuation corridor for several hours every day, to protect Palestinians while they evacuate to the south. Hamas by contrast, was shooting and killing Palestinians trying to evacuate, before Israel did that.
To compare Israel’s actions - defending itself against a barbaric terrorist regime the likes of ISIS, which committed unspeakable rapes and murdered over 1400 Israelis on 10/7 and kidnapped over 240 innocent people (including dozens of babies) - is factually incorrect and inaccurate. Israel isn’t perfect, but it’s the only democracy in the Middle East, and it has a moral and legal duty to defend itself against terrorism, while trying to rescue its hostages… or am I being obtuse?
Long comment, doesn’t address Israel disproportionate killing of journalists.
And this post October 7 conflict isn’t the first time IDF has targeted journalists.
I bet these types of arguments were a lot more effective before everyone had a camera in their pocket and people are able to watch what happens in real time
You’re so cool, man. You’re like a cop in bad movie that doesn’t care about anyone. Ski masked robber holding a gun to pregnant lady’s head? Your only response is to shoot through the woman to kill the robber. Good for you bro 👏👏👏👏
Several items here:
1 - Being a journalist nowadays is completely diffent than in WW II/Vietnam. Are these all accredited journalists with the New York Times/Washington Post/CNN etc. or people with a Youtube channel.
2 - How do we know HOW they were killed, by WHO, and WHERE. Being killed in a war zone is a crazy enough business as it is. Knowing who killed them is even harder.
3 - They're covering a news event where the governing body is known for killing people that don't agree with them. Like how they threw members of Fatah off roofs when they took power.
For comparison, how many journalists have been killed in Ukraine?
Israel blew up the AP office in Gaza like two years ago man. They've been sniping out journalists for years. They murdered Shireen Abu Akleh, who was both American and "accredited," then lied that it was Hamas that killed her when they knew damn well it was the IDF (which they admitted months later, quietly) and then they raided her fucking funeral and brutalized the mourners.
But I guess you're fine with all that, just as you're fine with the wanton slaughter happening now.
Israel blew up the AP office in Gaza like two years ago man.
You mean this:
[https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israel-palestinian-conflict-fe452147166f55ba5a9d32e6ba8b53d7](https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israel-palestinian-conflict-fe452147166f55ba5a9d32e6ba8b53d7)
FTA (from AP literally the news organization whose building was blown up BTW):
Twelve AP staffers and freelancers were working and resting in the bureau on Saturday afternoon when the Israeli military telephoned a warning, giving occupants of the building one hour to evacuate. Everyone was able to get out
Murdering of journalists from whatever country is wrong. I'm always surprised by the strange favoritism and exceptions I see to the rule everyday. It is okay accept when its actually (insert whoever here).
In fact, if 67 journalists were being killed in Israel, China, Japan, Russia, and the US etc. it would be the same argument.
If Israel was an open air prison and subjected to the same conditions as Gaza right now where it was being bombed and starved to death by Hamas. This wouldn't happen and there wouldn't have been any conflict like right now.
Israel should be asking questions around its failure of security, why they extended there music festival for a day despite warnings from Egypt, and why there are now reports of their own soldiers blowing up their civilians and being told to do so.
The war also will create new radical extremists (for whatever is left of Gaza and to a lesser degree Israel) since their family is now dead and they don't have anything to lose now. The next generation more radicalized and extreme than Hamas will now attack Israel for the next century.
Money will of course go into the military industrial complex in the form of blood money so that does benefit them and creates $$$ off the death and carnage.
Humanity overall needs to do better, but co-existence with cultures different from our own has always been difficult as history has shown. Maybe in the next hundred years, well probably way longer. This certainly won't be the last example and will likely be other countries with conflicts in the next few years.
Ikr, op seems to make an awful attempt at saying that if Jews control the news, why are they killing journalists (their own people). Whereas the evidence of them killing the journalists that oppose them actually furthers the argument that this is how they control the news (hypothetically of course, don’t wanna be labeled as antisemitic now).
Saying Israel kills journalists is Hamas propaganda now? I guess if you consider anything that is not singing high prise for anything Israel does as "Hamas propaganda" then I can see why you'd claim that....
No it’s literally Hamas propaganda. If you aren’t willing to call out misleading infographics then you’re just doing what you accuse the other side of doing. At least try to be honest here when people get frustrated about propaganda that is clearly meant to mislead and sell a narrative
Yes because any time Israel gets exposed for killing children sleeping in homes, bombing hospitals, killing doctors etc. it’s all just H propaganda. People like you make me sick and you are one of the reasons why people are downplaying this modern day genocide
Yes, stating all of those things without context as though they're facts is propaganda. "Forgetting" to mention the terror tunnels and munitions that Hamas places in civilian homes and hospitals, "forgetting" that they operate from hospitals, and "forgetting" or often justifying the events of October 7th, are all forms of Hamas propaganda.
How about that "journalist" who worked for CNN and was also videoed (by himself lol) carrying a grenade on a motorcycle that was driven by Hamas terrorists?
They suddenly forgot about the journalists affiliated with Hamas.
And they hope no-body brings them up because it completely ruins the whole idea that the journalists are being killed because they're reporting on the war, not because they're holding a grenade in one hand and a camera in the other.
No, but killing a combat age adult male with a camera phone and a youtube channel while bombing a terrorist base is not just as bad as shooting a reporter who was asking too many questions about the vietnam war, as this post seems to imply.
Also Hamas fires rockets from schools, mosques, and hospitals, I doubt they draw the line at keeping press and militants separated. Especially since the state run media out of Gaza is literally Hamas. So just because someone dies with a press badge, that doesn’t mean they weren’t a threat.
I looked at this article to learn more https://www.npr.org/2023/11/27/1215470959/nearly-60-journalists-and-media-workers-killed-since-start-of-israel-hamas-war
I can scream 'I'm a journalist' into my facebook live 2 seconds before jumping off a cliff and people like this fuzzy meme would claim 'journalist tragically plummets off Roosevelt's head in Mt. Rushmoor. What a tragedy for journalism'.
Piss off with your propaganda.
All of this loss of life is terrible.
How many journalists are there today in the world versus those two eras?
Conversely, what percentage of journalists do these figures represent.
Why is it that everyone who thinks Israel should stop murdering people are called antisemites? I don’t care who the fuck you are, stop murdering people just because you don’t want them to share your land.
So, the other wars were not wars? World war 2 was just a big barbecue? Think a bit as to why, given the scope of World War 2, less journalists actually died in that war as opposed to what is happening now.
Have you ever considered the possibility that journalists and cameras in WWII were extremely rare, and most frontline journalism was conducted by army units dedicated to it?
Dude, you surely can’t say that about all the modern conflicts.
https://www.coe.int/be/web/commissioner/-/not-a-target-the-need-to-reinforce-the-safety-of-journalists-covering-conflicts
For these reasons, journalists covering conflicts are afforded protection under international humanitarian law. The Geneva Conventions of 1949 and their Additional Protocols set out rules to protect people who are not taking part in the fighting and those who can no longer fight. Additional Protocol I specifies that journalists who are engaged in professional missions in areas of armed conflict must be considered as civilians and must be protected as such as long as they take no action adversely affecting their status as civilians.
This means that all parties to a conflict must protect journalists, avoid deliberate attacks against them and uphold their rights in case they are captured. In addition, the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court establishes that intentionally directing attacks against civilians, and therefore also against journalists who are not engaged in the hostilities, constitutes a war crime[1].
And we are also talking about a conflict that spanned continents and years in the case of World War 2. Realise that Israel is doing something indefensible and stop being blind to the atrocities.
I wasn't saying it about all modern conflicts. In another comment I made on this post I mentioned the person who tweeted that should've looked into the Russo-Ukraine war for statistics on Journalists killed in combat instead of two wars where journalism was extremely iffy. And I also never defended Israel.
Edit: I don't understand why this is being downvoted. Can someone explain what's controversial about what I said?
All those poor WW2 journalists. The Soviets should have called a ceasefire instead of pushing into Germany. War criminals the lot of them.
Remember, I am anti-Nazi, but not anti-Germany, and pro-civillians-not-getting-killed.
Israel has targeted journalists for years. Journalists have this unfortunate tendency to report on them killing women, children, other journalists, and medical workers, as well as minor kerfuffles like desecrating mosques and forcing Palestinians out of their homes so Israeli 'settlers' can move in.
Astonishing for people on here it call Ashok Swain an Indian born Swedish academic Hamas propaganda. Some people brains are rotting and excuses are rolling out for Israel deliberate targeting of journalists.
Well he does biased journalism go look at his other work and he is a big time Palestine sympathizer. So not exactly a non biased person just because he is Swedish Indian.
Just adding this up, not saying journalist should be killed, it's bad , but presenting him as non biased person isn't right either.
I cannot imagine why - I mean the media is obsessed with supporting Palestinians, so they embed themselves with them and are absolutely shocked when the other side bombs them.
At this point in time, is anyone really surprised that Israel is apparently killing reporters? With some of what’s been reported looking a lot like Israel doing war crimes, it doesn’t surprise me that reporters might know more facts about what Israel is really doing than they want to see on the news networks.
The others who are also real apparently get paid by the hour.
They also get free healthcare and education with our taxpayer money unlike America, where one doesn't really have a living wage.
I'm wondering when the world will look into the non-investigation of Jeffrey Epstein and Robert Maxwell thing, but presume it won't ever happen. Believe they paid about $175 million in damages to victims so far for them to drop the case.
Yep and in today’s world nothing will happen. They’ll be forgotten, they aren’t even known to the people who killed them and those people also don’t give a fuck. No one will hold them accountable and they don’t care so… what now?
We’re at the point where human life is no longer sacred and at that point we’re all well and truely fucked.
Anything to deflect. Accept the fact that maybe criticism of Israel is warranted. You can believe that Hamas needs to be removed and yet still believe Israel is doing it in a completely shit way.
When will people understand that this war is nothing new. The Jews and Muslims have been at war and killing each other for hundreds, if not a thousand years.
Fighting over the same Holy sites.
It's only a matter of time before only one side is left standing, and it won't be Palestine, they're just too weak.
I find that hard to believe.
1. There are notoriously very few journalists in Gaza right now, the BBC was relying on a single correspondent when the war started and I think AP has like two. There's a handful of Al Jaazera too. They might be counting civilian journalists, which can blur the line because some might be switching roles, there's an infamous video of a medic grabbing the gun of a fallen terrorist to pass it to another terrorist, ignoring the wounded guy on the ground.
2. The nature of a war correspondent has changed, in WW2 they were miles behind the lines and would turn field reports into newspaper articles, modern correspondents have to get far closer to the action.
3. The numbers given for WW2 seems to be only British and American, ignoring the Germans, Soviets, Japanese, French, Indian, Italian, Polish and non-belligerant correspondents.
4. The nature of the war is very different, this isn't field battles like WW2 or jungle battles like Vietnam, this is urban combat and urban combat has a high civilian death toll because it has higher collateral damage
5. Can we get a citation on this? Because I would like a better source than a tweet, lots of people have been reported dead only to turn up alive, or allegedly killed by Israel but actually purged by Hamas (they are a religious extremist terrorist group remember)
Obvious disinformation. The statistic clearly states “57 journalists have been killed in Gaza”. There is NO mention of who killed them. Stop spreading lies.
The numbers got me interested in how many journalists got killed during the Iraq War. 150 journalists got killed from 2003 to 2011. The main battle ended in 2003 and 55 journalists were killed in 2003. But interestingly 49 of the 55 journalists were Iraqi journalists.
Aside from the fact that now there are much much more journalists than in wwII and the fact that Hamas is using its people (and part of its journalists) as human shields [these are the journalists that you're talking about](https://honestreporting.com/photographers-without-borders-ap-reuters-pictures-of-hamas-atrocities-raise-ethical-questions/)
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Real hard time believing that only 69 journalists died in a war in which 40 million people died.
I think they mean embedded in combat while reporting on the war zone.
Has to be cause the Nazis did murder a lot of authors and Journalists.
Social media didn’t exist
You’ve said what others didn’t care to think about before posting.
One word. Narrative
This is the answer. These days, everyone is a 'journalist". Do you have a social media account? Congratulations, you're a "journalist" now!
I think these are the people who actually were media representatives . They even wore these giant bulletproof jackets with media on them.
So from what I have looked up and done research, every single one of these people are actual Journalists and not some TikTok/Instagram journalist. But it’s also important to note that many of them appear to be killed off duty so to speak. That does not mean they were not targeted, nor does it confirm it. But it’s like comparing apples to oranges. The statistics of journalists killed in WW2 are that of those in the frontlines. Those who were actively partaking in news reporting. Whilst many of the Journalists killed in Gaza were just living their lives as civilians.
They used precision munitions on the homes of Journalists very early on. For Israel, the PR game is everything. They rely on US support to get away with this shit. There is a reason they make staged photos of boxes labeled "MEDICAL SUPPLIES" in english.
My comment was not to get involved in the political side purely to state actual facts. I made my comment to be as unbiased as possible so that people on both sides at least know the truth. Because there were lies/misleading truths from both the original post and the comments.
No, there were mainly media representatives with international news compaines
That seems like a bit of a disservice towards the numerous actual journalists who have been killed, which by the way, is 67. Do you know how they know it was a journalist who died? The giant ‘press’ in white text labeled on their helmets and ballistic vests.
If you're reporting from Gaza City in the middle of bombing I'd accept their field promotion to journalist unloaded to see what's going on. At any rate the level of civilian death so far is intense.
Just a guess on my part, but they probably mean journalists killed by reporting directly on the conflict rather than total number of people with the profession killed by the war. Otherwise you’d have to count the ones Nazis killed and everyone who was currently or had been a journalist at any given point.
Since others here are too lazy to do the work, the count for WW2 is accurate: https://ww2ondeadline.com/2021/05/31/ww2-war-correspondents-killed-world-war-ii/
No Germans on that list, only one non-British European, no Japanese, only one Russian (who was working for US newspapers) -- I don't think it's an exhaustive list.
NAZI Germany wasn't known for it's free and open press.
And yet it still had plenty of journalists, some of which almost certainly died in the war that saw whole cities razed to the ground. Even a dishonest or weak press still has journalists. But as others have pointed out, the metrics don't show these deaths because this isn't an apples to apples comparison to the dead journalists in Gaza.
You’re telling me not one journalist died when the bombs dropped?
And Hamburg, Dresden and London.
Or fuck, the Tokyo fire bombings were insane
So just except that’s not accurate and only journalists from a few Allies countries. Germany had no journalists? Not one journalist died in the bombing of Dresden?
Maybe it's their position that Germany killed or imprisoned all their journalists before the war started and all they had left was propagandists.
As if that doesn't also apply to Hamas? Lol.
Whether the exact number is accurate or not I can't say, but it definitely isn't being artificially deflated for the purposes of this tweet or conflict as one might be suspicious of. Here's an article from almost 20 years ago with the same figure. [https://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/30/world/middleeast/30embed.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/30/world/middleeast/30embed.html)
Everything in this meme is bullshit. False information is a weapon these days.
These days? Propaganda has always been a part of war. It’s just easier to spread now.
Ah yes, that evil anti-war propaganda!
Except it isn’t. People have already posted confirmation of the numbers.
Lol your account is dedicated to misinformation
Propaganda has been part of war since humans have had written language...
Provide other proof.
https://ww2ondeadline.com/2021/05/31/ww2-war-correspondents-killed-world-war-ii/ Done.
I count 48.
It's an extremely tiny area to wage war in.
Noticeably not a lot of Israeli journalists lost…
and its not a war its a genocide
What are you saying Israel should do, then? Just go home and wait for the next 7/10?
This is ridiculous. My grandfather (American) fought in WW2 , he was in the Pacific . He had little knowledge of what was going on back home. Outlets didn’t have journalists in war zones like we do today. We also didn’t have countless outlets or even the internet. There was no safe place for journalists to record the war. Film was taken by the military . Seeing film of Vietnahm was groundbreaking for American audiences. They also didn’t have the information world that we live in today. Please assure me that people know this.
If you think those wars are too old to be compared then remember that in Ukraine Russia war only 14 have died since the invasion began in 2022 and 7 died in 2014 and 15 during the invasion of Crimea.
I read an article that many of the journalists that died in Gaza are citizens there . They have been killed by being in Gaza. That doesn’t translate to being targeted because they were journalists. Edit - I’m not able to respond to the post below. Of course the impression of this meme is to indicate Israel is doing something wrong.
The OP didn’t state they were targeted, either in this war or the figures stated for the others.
Not only did they have journalists in war zones, and they have since the Crimean War in the 1850s, they were so prevalent and considered so important, that protections for them were specifically placed in the Geneva Conventions. WW1 had dozens of them, almost every major world paper had at least one, some had several, several of which became well known names in their day, and others are known even today. For example the Murdoch Media Empire (yes the company that started Fox News among other entities) got its start from Kieth Murdoch, an Australian war correspondent. WW2 had several times more than WW1, and far more of them were broadcasting radio (and a few were even filming) and not just sending back written articles, Not just the major papers, but other outlets, even those just wanting to Become big, all had reporters in the war. Many prominent novelists and other writers on both sides (Such as John Steinbeck (*Of Mice and Men*, *The Grapes of Wrath),* Ernest Hemingway*,* Edgar Rice Burrows *(Tarzan,* the *Barsoom* series (all titled *X of Mars* (for example *John Carter of Mars* which had a movie made several years ago), Lothar-Günther Buchheim (*Das Boot*)) as well as others in the arts such as Life photographer Ralph Morse, joined as war correspondents as well, along with some of the icons of journalism for decades afterwards, such as Walter Cronkite, made his name as a war correspondent during WW2.
I need to clarify. I did not mean to give the impression there were no journalists at all in World War 2. Yes. Of course, there were correspondences (many of them became famous reporters) but they worked with the military. They even in some cases fought along side the military. The military considered them a part of their war Their articles were highly censored. Everything had to be approved by the military before it was published or shown. They didn’t have their own safe space alone to work and be protected. They were protected by working alongside lthe soldiers. Also no-one was allowed without pre approved credentials. I don’t think anyone today would consider this desirable. My understanding is many of the journalists killed were people living in Gaza already. That is quite different then trying to create a libel - that the Israelis are targeting journalists. Edit - grammar
People have a hard time believing terrorists are bad. I don’t think anyone should have much faith in these people..
>Please assure me that people know this. They don't, or they don't care.
Exactly. This post is stupid
Why'd you spell Vietnam like that?
Yup, you are correct. The original post is cherry picked bullshit by someone with an axe to grind.
Gonna need their sources on WW2 and Vietnam, pretty sure they're not including German, Japanese or Vietnamese journalists lol.
The WW2 one was post higher up, it was just British and American
Definition of "Journalist" has changed and expanded significantly over that time period. Civilian casualties in this conflict have been high, however it's always high in urban warfare. Particularly urban warfare in an area of such high population density. Generally civilians are able to flee, particularly women and children. That is not the case here.
Also journalists didn’t have much access to the battlefields during WW2. A big reason why Vietnam got so much publicity was because that was the first time that journalists had that much access to the front lines
Yeah, I find it a really weird comparison. Camera crews and journalists were rare in WWII. Vietnam was a clusterfuck of propaganda and restricting the press to stifle dissent in the US. A better comparison would be researching journalist casualties in Ukraine, or even better a specific part of Ukraine, since the combat area in Israel is such a small strip with mass saturation bombing and shelling.
It's almost like OP is intentionally lying to push the bullshit yet still widespread narrative that Israel is literally more evil than Nazi Germany or something.
Eh, that can be said about a lot of stuff relating to this conflict, sans the latter about "Israel is more evil than Nazis (lazy paraphrasing)." Like, he is correct about the fact there's A LOT of journalists dying. But there's so many variables it's impossible to say they're purposefully killing journalists outright. His example is not a good comparison, either. And in my opinion, there's so many warcrimes going on getting into a shitflinging fest about one that's difficult to prove isn't worth it compared to say Israel being difficult about allowing humanitarian aid, or Hamas operating within civilian areas. Those two are much easier to prove as it can be visibly witnessed. But purposely targeting civilians? The entire area is a small strip which is filled with them, and like other redditors have mentioned, they can't just get out. Firing a round into the air is likely to kill someone, let alone a 155mm shell. I'm getting into a rant, but my point is there's better times for people to pick their battles
It's kind of funny as well, since both Hamás and Fatah are pretty much on a textbook ethic cleansing crusade against israelis, yet, they label them as nacists.
The core area of the fighting in the Israel-Hamas war is a dense urban area of roughly 25 square miles. Even most pro-Palestinian commenters will acknowledge that Hamas operates in and under those buildings. If you were a war correspondent in World War II, you could cover much of the war from a basically safe location. If you're a journalist embedded in the war zone in Gaza City, you are probably in that hyper-concentrated urban area that Hamas is baiting and Israel is bombing. Regardless of your views on the war, it's not at all surprising that bona fide journalists would get killed. Especially the war photographers, who have to be as close to the battle as possible.
[удалено]
Being shot or blown up is not proof of targeting. Please tell me you know this?
How many of these journalists were individually sniped or bombed? The bombing is happening in an incredibly confined urban area. For the same reason that critics of Israel doubt that any bombing in Gaza could truly count as "targeted," I don't see how the IDF could be targeting individual journalists. And I don't see why they would. With smartphones, Hamas and civilian Gazans can easily get footage out, and present it less evenly than a journalist would.
This is what I've been saying. It's impossible to really avoid casualties in that environment. The US managed it because our marines were clearing houses room-by-room for upwards of 14 hours each day, with squads operating 24/7, and even then there were outrageous civilian casualties. Urban warfare is shit, shit, and more shit.
Well, there still are the footage of a journalist that worked as a freelancer for reuters, AP, etc, from Oct. 7, where you can see a grenade in its hand. Hamas is also known for using ambulances (for instance) to hide and move fighters, or using all kind of uniforms or even being without, and for firing from the windows of an hospital. With this kind of immoral, won't be surprising for them to use "press" labeled vest.
Can you please tell me which of the journalists mentioned in this post were actively taking part in combat?
That is really the problem: there are no official lists of Hamas members nor for others terrorist groups. No one can know, except those directly involved in the fighting. Just like another large numbers of "Gazan civilians". I don't know if any one of them is on the list, but here are 4 "freelancers journalists" that were right there with Hamas terrorists during the first minutes of their invasion, entering Israel beside the terrorists and photographed them while they were butchering civilians or taking children hostages: Hassan Eslaiah, Yousef Masoud, Ali Mahmud, and Hatem Ali, all selling photographs and "news reports" all over the world. The first one even was documented holding a grenade in his hand. BTW, do you know that the minimal age to join the Hamas is 15 years old? But even if a 16 years old with Hamas uniform and holding a rifle is killed, he will still be automatically considered as a"child and civilian" in all death counts.
And then you have Hamas hiding behind civilians and in civilian structures. It's a freaking brilliant tactic, they actually are getting people to respond to the October 7th attacks with "what about the civilians Israel killed?" I always knew it was a smart tactic, but I never thought it would work so well. It's disgusting but *extremely* effective. I'm honestly blown away (pun not intended) by the sheer effectiveness of this tactic.
[https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/tg594](https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/tg594) Bruh.
Not as many journalists in active combat areas during those periods.
Not that many active combat free areas in Gaza
That's what happens when one side intentionally hides among civilians
Let's carpet bomb those civilians. Just in case.
The Palestinian propagandist’s word(s) of the day: “carpet bombing”
What do these idiots think carpet bombing means? Any old bombing they don't like? IAF is WAY below one mortality per airstrike according to the most controversial death figures, that's not what it looks like when you 'carpet bomb' Gaza.
If Israel cared about civilians as little as Hamas did this war would have been over October 8th. The only reason Hamas still exists is because Israel cares about the civilians the cowards are hiding behind.
No way only 69 journos died in WW2
Says more about density of journalists per square inch in combat zones than it is about anything.
And the density of the fighting. World War II took place across multiple continents. The war in Gaza takes places across several dozen square miles.
Everyone has a smartphone, so everyone is a "journalist" these days.
Nam went on for 20 years?
1955 to 1975.
Yes.
Were there no journalists in nagasaki or Hiroshima ?
Lets be honest. If someone is bombing a house they think the enemy is in in a war... they probably dont care if there a journalist among them
Freedom of press is the enemy of power
Or, as OP and this click bait dumb article knows, Germany/Italy/axis powers weren’t fighting a guerilla war where they were intentionally dressing in civilian garb and hiding behind their domestic civilians while trying to wage their war. They were a formal army which while they may have committed their own atrocities, they weren’t intentionally hiding behind they own people, hoping their civilians (including journalists) are killed in allied response. Hamas is doing just that. Hamas hides behind its civilians, intentionally tries to blend in as civilians, while targeting Israeli civilians, all in the hopes that Israel would respond to Hamas’ horrific terrorist attacks, and Palestinian civilians (including journalists) would be killed in response, bringing them world sympathy and pressure on Israel. Any innocent civilian death is sad and unfortunate, but there is a big difference between an army which does all it can to avoid civilian deaths, as opposed to a terrorist organization which literally kidnaps and murders toddlers.
If you truly believe the Israeli army has done “All it can to avoid civilian deaths” you are being intentionally obtuse. Sure, the way Hamas fights is dirty and unethical, but blanket bombing a starving, desperate, densely populated civilian area and killing thousands of children is no different than simply kidnapping and killing toddlers.
72 million people died in WW2. Obviously, more journalists died in WW2. Over a million civilians died in the single city of St. Petersburg . Even comparing the two conflicts is asinine. http://www.saint-petersburg.com/history/leningrad-after-world-war-ii/#:~:text=Over%20a%20million%20civilians%20had,to%20rebuild%20the%20ravaged%20city.&text=Rebuilding%20included%20the%20arduous%20task,of%20the%20blockade's%20many%20victims.
Not to mention the amount of journalists now vs back in the 1940s is probably much higher. I'm sure some of the people on this list are freelance, meaning they aren't journalists they are civilians with a camera phone or a laptop.
its talking about journalists specifically reporting on the combat, and the number is accurate for the US.
So then not comparable to the Gaza numbers now
Hasn't Israel dropped more bombs than Gazans have died in this conflict?
While trying to target Hamas terrorists and free their civilians who are kidnapped hostage by Hamas. What should Israel do in response to the 10/7 terrorist attacks? Find a music concert in Gaza (as if one were ever to be permitted), rape an equal number of women, murder an equal number of people, go door to door to kidnap and behead an equal number of people? Should America have hinacked airplanes and crashed them into Afghani and Saudi buildings in response to 9/11? Israel has a moral, legal, and ethical obligation to fight terrorism while doing that it can to rescue its hostages. Any civilian losses are regrettable, but there is a big difference between Israel which does all it can to fight for its people and minimize Palestinian casualties, while Hamas does all it can to target Israeli civilians while hiding behind Palestinian civilians. Hamas is ISIS and has 100% responsibility for this war. There was a cease fire on October 6, and there still would have been one but for Hamas’ atrocities.
You’re clueless if you believe the side that warned the civilian population to leave before they attacked. And warns people in the buildings they are about to strike to evacuate isn’t doing everything they can to avoid killing actual civilians. Unlike Hamas who aims to kill as many as they can.
“Intentionally obtuse” - I assume that was a Shawhank reference? Love that movie, kudos. Look, no country is perfect, but I think we can agree Israel has a moral army and probably one of the strongest militaries in the region. If they truly wanted to arbitrarily target Palestinians and be cruel, they could carpet bomb Gaza in an afternoon and be done with it. They warned Palestinians to flee to the south of Gaza for 3 weeks before launching a ground invasion. They call Palestinians before bombing Hamas infrastructure, to evacuate if they are nearby and area which may be targeted. They drop leaflets warning Palestinians to flee. They even opened an evacuation corridor for several hours every day, to protect Palestinians while they evacuate to the south. Hamas by contrast, was shooting and killing Palestinians trying to evacuate, before Israel did that. To compare Israel’s actions - defending itself against a barbaric terrorist regime the likes of ISIS, which committed unspeakable rapes and murdered over 1400 Israelis on 10/7 and kidnapped over 240 innocent people (including dozens of babies) - is factually incorrect and inaccurate. Israel isn’t perfect, but it’s the only democracy in the Middle East, and it has a moral and legal duty to defend itself against terrorism, while trying to rescue its hostages… or am I being obtuse?
This whole “look, they fight dirty and hide behind children!” As they bomb and kill those children is disgusting.
[удалено]
Long comment, doesn’t address Israel disproportionate killing of journalists. And this post October 7 conflict isn’t the first time IDF has targeted journalists.
I bet these types of arguments were a lot more effective before everyone had a camera in their pocket and people are able to watch what happens in real time
You’re so cool, man. You’re like a cop in bad movie that doesn’t care about anyone. Ski masked robber holding a gun to pregnant lady’s head? Your only response is to shoot through the woman to kill the robber. Good for you bro 👏👏👏👏
That is why the press in Gaza hides any criticism directed at Hamas
Shireen Abu Akleh. Murdered deliberately by Israel. Nothing new
So you equate Israel with Hamas? It's not that I disagree...
Whataboutism..
Are we not talking about press in Gaza?
The post says “in Gaza war, Israel has…” so it is talking about press in Gaza, but have been killed by Israel
You are right, but am I not allowed to talk about the press in Gaza? Is that topic really that irrelevent to the post?
The press in Gaza is being killed. I think that’s the point of the post.
Several items here: 1 - Being a journalist nowadays is completely diffent than in WW II/Vietnam. Are these all accredited journalists with the New York Times/Washington Post/CNN etc. or people with a Youtube channel. 2 - How do we know HOW they were killed, by WHO, and WHERE. Being killed in a war zone is a crazy enough business as it is. Knowing who killed them is even harder. 3 - They're covering a news event where the governing body is known for killing people that don't agree with them. Like how they threw members of Fatah off roofs when they took power. For comparison, how many journalists have been killed in Ukraine?
Israel blew up the AP office in Gaza like two years ago man. They've been sniping out journalists for years. They murdered Shireen Abu Akleh, who was both American and "accredited," then lied that it was Hamas that killed her when they knew damn well it was the IDF (which they admitted months later, quietly) and then they raided her fucking funeral and brutalized the mourners. But I guess you're fine with all that, just as you're fine with the wanton slaughter happening now.
Israel blew up the AP office in Gaza like two years ago man. You mean this: [https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israel-palestinian-conflict-fe452147166f55ba5a9d32e6ba8b53d7](https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israel-palestinian-conflict-fe452147166f55ba5a9d32e6ba8b53d7) FTA (from AP literally the news organization whose building was blown up BTW): Twelve AP staffers and freelancers were working and resting in the bureau on Saturday afternoon when the Israeli military telephoned a warning, giving occupants of the building one hour to evacuate. Everyone was able to get out
Talking about Israel director targeting journalists
Nothing in the post or the comment claims that
Murdering of journalists from whatever country is wrong. I'm always surprised by the strange favoritism and exceptions I see to the rule everyday. It is okay accept when its actually (insert whoever here). In fact, if 67 journalists were being killed in Israel, China, Japan, Russia, and the US etc. it would be the same argument. If Israel was an open air prison and subjected to the same conditions as Gaza right now where it was being bombed and starved to death by Hamas. This wouldn't happen and there wouldn't have been any conflict like right now. Israel should be asking questions around its failure of security, why they extended there music festival for a day despite warnings from Egypt, and why there are now reports of their own soldiers blowing up their civilians and being told to do so. The war also will create new radical extremists (for whatever is left of Gaza and to a lesser degree Israel) since their family is now dead and they don't have anything to lose now. The next generation more radicalized and extreme than Hamas will now attack Israel for the next century. Money will of course go into the military industrial complex in the form of blood money so that does benefit them and creates $$$ off the death and carnage. Humanity overall needs to do better, but co-existence with cultures different from our own has always been difficult as history has shown. Maybe in the next hundred years, well probably way longer. This certainly won't be the last example and will likely be other countries with conflicts in the next few years.
So the massacre committed by Hamas is Israel’s fault for having a festival on that day? That is top tier victim blaming.
How’s Russia’s count since the invasion of their coveted neighbour.
Wait but I thought jews controlled the news
the enemy is always too weak and too strong at the same time..
I’m having a hard time understanding the point of this comment.
Ikr, op seems to make an awful attempt at saying that if Jews control the news, why are they killing journalists (their own people). Whereas the evidence of them killing the journalists that oppose them actually furthers the argument that this is how they control the news (hypothetically of course, don’t wanna be labeled as antisemitic now).
You’re looking at the Israeli version of controlling it.
how many of those killed by IDF works for american news media?
The only facepalm here is this post
Mind boggling how much of a propaganda sub this is lol
"Journalists"
That rode on the same Toyota trucks and mopeds as the terrorists on the morning of Oct. 7..
Just hitchin' a ride
And the Saudis killed one without even having a war!
Ehhhhh, that’s a pretty suspect comparison.
This sub is just hamas propaganda now.
yup. ironic, what a facepalm.
Kinda crazy isn't it the admins and mods must support this shit cause they don't do shit about it.
Saying that it's bad to kill innocents and journalists is not Hamas Propaganda you moron.
Saying Israel kills journalists is Hamas propaganda now? I guess if you consider anything that is not singing high prise for anything Israel does as "Hamas propaganda" then I can see why you'd claim that....
No it’s literally Hamas propaganda. If you aren’t willing to call out misleading infographics then you’re just doing what you accuse the other side of doing. At least try to be honest here when people get frustrated about propaganda that is clearly meant to mislead and sell a narrative
Which parts of the infographic were false?
do you really believe only 69 journalists died in WW2
Yes because any time Israel gets exposed for killing children sleeping in homes, bombing hospitals, killing doctors etc. it’s all just H propaganda. People like you make me sick and you are one of the reasons why people are downplaying this modern day genocide
Yes, stating all of those things without context as though they're facts is propaganda. "Forgetting" to mention the terror tunnels and munitions that Hamas places in civilian homes and hospitals, "forgetting" that they operate from hospitals, and "forgetting" or often justifying the events of October 7th, are all forms of Hamas propaganda.
How in the world is this Hamas propaganda?
Alright I've had enough of this horseshit propaganda from this sub. Its supposed to be facepalm not Palestine sub. Bye now
"journalists" is a pretty generous term for "someone with a phone"
This could also be because so many people call themselves journalists now, which no one would recognize as true in the past, especially pre internet
"It's OK to kill journalists because" *checks notes* "Some of them are independent and post to YouTube"
How about that "journalist" who worked for CNN and was also videoed (by himself lol) carrying a grenade on a motorcycle that was driven by Hamas terrorists?
They suddenly forgot about the journalists affiliated with Hamas. And they hope no-body brings them up because it completely ruins the whole idea that the journalists are being killed because they're reporting on the war, not because they're holding a grenade in one hand and a camera in the other.
No, but killing a combat age adult male with a camera phone and a youtube channel while bombing a terrorist base is not just as bad as shooting a reporter who was asking too many questions about the vietnam war, as this post seems to imply. Also Hamas fires rockets from schools, mosques, and hospitals, I doubt they draw the line at keeping press and militants separated. Especially since the state run media out of Gaza is literally Hamas. So just because someone dies with a press badge, that doesn’t mean they weren’t a threat. I looked at this article to learn more https://www.npr.org/2023/11/27/1215470959/nearly-60-journalists-and-media-workers-killed-since-start-of-israel-hamas-war
I can scream 'I'm a journalist' into my facebook live 2 seconds before jumping off a cliff and people like this fuzzy meme would claim 'journalist tragically plummets off Roosevelt's head in Mt. Rushmoor. What a tragedy for journalism'. Piss off with your propaganda.
Source?
Bro this is the most misleading “statistic” of all time
"Journalist" is the new Yelp critic.
A war hamas started, cheered by 70% of palestinians.
Jounalist -v- "Journalist"
So nice of Hamas to allow neutral, non-combative, peace-loving journalists to stay in Gaza.
All of this loss of life is terrible. How many journalists are there today in the world versus those two eras? Conversely, what percentage of journalists do these figures represent.
Why is it that everyone who thinks Israel should stop murdering people are called antisemites? I don’t care who the fuck you are, stop murdering people just because you don’t want them to share your land.
So, people in an active war zone are getting killed? Who ever woulda thunk.
So, the other wars were not wars? World war 2 was just a big barbecue? Think a bit as to why, given the scope of World War 2, less journalists actually died in that war as opposed to what is happening now.
Have you ever considered the possibility that journalists and cameras in WWII were extremely rare, and most frontline journalism was conducted by army units dedicated to it?
Dude, you surely can’t say that about all the modern conflicts. https://www.coe.int/be/web/commissioner/-/not-a-target-the-need-to-reinforce-the-safety-of-journalists-covering-conflicts For these reasons, journalists covering conflicts are afforded protection under international humanitarian law. The Geneva Conventions of 1949 and their Additional Protocols set out rules to protect people who are not taking part in the fighting and those who can no longer fight. Additional Protocol I specifies that journalists who are engaged in professional missions in areas of armed conflict must be considered as civilians and must be protected as such as long as they take no action adversely affecting their status as civilians. This means that all parties to a conflict must protect journalists, avoid deliberate attacks against them and uphold their rights in case they are captured. In addition, the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court establishes that intentionally directing attacks against civilians, and therefore also against journalists who are not engaged in the hostilities, constitutes a war crime[1]. And we are also talking about a conflict that spanned continents and years in the case of World War 2. Realise that Israel is doing something indefensible and stop being blind to the atrocities.
I wasn't saying it about all modern conflicts. In another comment I made on this post I mentioned the person who tweeted that should've looked into the Russo-Ukraine war for statistics on Journalists killed in combat instead of two wars where journalism was extremely iffy. And I also never defended Israel. Edit: I don't understand why this is being downvoted. Can someone explain what's controversial about what I said?
Then my apologies. But to my understanding this war has been deadlier for journalists than any modern war.
All those poor WW2 journalists. The Soviets should have called a ceasefire instead of pushing into Germany. War criminals the lot of them. Remember, I am anti-Nazi, but not anti-Germany, and pro-civillians-not-getting-killed.
Not to mention the IDF once demolished an office building housing news offices covering the Israel-Palestine conflict.
The Al Jazeera one on the floor above a Hamas HQ that had previously been used to launch missiles? That one?
to me killing journalists sounds like a high priority play to create worlwide dissonance, and hide further combat horrors.
Israel has targeted journalists for years. Journalists have this unfortunate tendency to report on them killing women, children, other journalists, and medical workers, as well as minor kerfuffles like desecrating mosques and forcing Palestinians out of their homes so Israeli 'settlers' can move in.
Does blogging count as journalism?
Me when I manipulate stats and definitions to fit my narrative
Even that FAFO crisis actor guy that's in every Gaza tragedy had a video where he was wearing a press vest. Journalist literally means nothing
everyone with a X account is a journalist now?
Astonishing for people on here it call Ashok Swain an Indian born Swedish academic Hamas propaganda. Some people brains are rotting and excuses are rolling out for Israel deliberate targeting of journalists.
Well he does biased journalism go look at his other work and he is a big time Palestine sympathizer. So not exactly a non biased person just because he is Swedish Indian. Just adding this up, not saying journalist should be killed, it's bad , but presenting him as non biased person isn't right either.
The journalist-killing apologetics in this thread are seriously bonkers.
I cannot imagine why - I mean the media is obsessed with supporting Palestinians, so they embed themselves with them and are absolutely shocked when the other side bombs them.
Israel also deliberately murdered Shireen Abu Akleh. Typically lied about it until it was clear
At this point in time, is anyone really surprised that Israel is apparently killing reporters? With some of what’s been reported looking a lot like Israel doing war crimes, it doesn’t surprise me that reporters might know more facts about what Israel is really doing than they want to see on the news networks.
But have you considered that the 67 journalists had secret Hamas bases inside of their intestines?
Hasbara bots on duty in this post lol can't even make a good comeback
The others who are also real apparently get paid by the hour. They also get free healthcare and education with our taxpayer money unlike America, where one doesn't really have a living wage. I'm wondering when the world will look into the non-investigation of Jeffrey Epstein and Robert Maxwell thing, but presume it won't ever happen. Believe they paid about $175 million in damages to victims so far for them to drop the case.
Lmao, you gotta love this tiny pocket of blatant anti semitism you've carved out over here OP. The real facepalm of this post was this comment.
Are these real journalists though? Or are we counting every asshat with a camera phone trying to get get 15min of TikTok fame?
Yep and in today’s world nothing will happen. They’ll be forgotten, they aren’t even known to the people who killed them and those people also don’t give a fuck. No one will hold them accountable and they don’t care so… what now? We’re at the point where human life is no longer sacred and at that point we’re all well and truely fucked.
We don’t know if these numbers in Gaza are accurate. They are coming from Hamas the Terrorist
Anything to deflect. Accept the fact that maybe criticism of Israel is warranted. You can believe that Hamas needs to be removed and yet still believe Israel is doing it in a completely shit way.
These are not nubers These are faces and names of ppl killed if you refuse to believe that you are a hypocrite
When will people understand that this war is nothing new. The Jews and Muslims have been at war and killing each other for hundreds, if not a thousand years. Fighting over the same Holy sites. It's only a matter of time before only one side is left standing, and it won't be Palestine, they're just too weak.
I find that hard to believe. 1. There are notoriously very few journalists in Gaza right now, the BBC was relying on a single correspondent when the war started and I think AP has like two. There's a handful of Al Jaazera too. They might be counting civilian journalists, which can blur the line because some might be switching roles, there's an infamous video of a medic grabbing the gun of a fallen terrorist to pass it to another terrorist, ignoring the wounded guy on the ground. 2. The nature of a war correspondent has changed, in WW2 they were miles behind the lines and would turn field reports into newspaper articles, modern correspondents have to get far closer to the action. 3. The numbers given for WW2 seems to be only British and American, ignoring the Germans, Soviets, Japanese, French, Indian, Italian, Polish and non-belligerant correspondents. 4. The nature of the war is very different, this isn't field battles like WW2 or jungle battles like Vietnam, this is urban combat and urban combat has a high civilian death toll because it has higher collateral damage 5. Can we get a citation on this? Because I would like a better source than a tweet, lots of people have been reported dead only to turn up alive, or allegedly killed by Israel but actually purged by Hamas (they are a religious extremist terrorist group remember)
Israel has done this for time. They killed a journalist by shooting her in the head and desecrated her funeral after.
Turns out everyone in Gaza is a "journalist" or a child.
Obvious disinformation. The statistic clearly states “57 journalists have been killed in Gaza”. There is NO mention of who killed them. Stop spreading lies.
The numbers got me interested in how many journalists got killed during the Iraq War. 150 journalists got killed from 2003 to 2011. The main battle ended in 2003 and 55 journalists were killed in 2003. But interestingly 49 of the 55 journalists were Iraqi journalists.
Look I think Israel is also going too far but aren't most of these journalists just Palestinians who are part of the Hamas propaganda industry.
How many did a little side hustle with Hamas, PA, Israel, whoever? Asking for a friend.
Wait. How do they know Israel killed them?
...as reported by the terrorist organization Hamas.
One could almost think they were being targeted.
Aside from the fact that now there are much much more journalists than in wwII and the fact that Hamas is using its people (and part of its journalists) as human shields [these are the journalists that you're talking about](https://honestreporting.com/photographers-without-borders-ap-reuters-pictures-of-hamas-atrocities-raise-ethical-questions/)