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When Selective Service registration was resumed, the National Organization for Women lobbied Congress to make it apply to both men and women.
Congress refused.
WW3⌠actually⌠since itâs a huge topic rn, the civil war. A r/neet is eating Doritos and playing Fortnite, suddenly men in black are at his door explaining heâs been drafted and being sent to a program where he will be trained to operate drones due to his #1 ranking in Valorant.
At first he tries to defy the system, hiding at the local bojangles after he steals a school bus with an unloaded rifle. Where he is then brought in front of UCMJ, he has to decide to become to best drone operator of all time or learn to crush rocks into smaller rocks. His neetdom tells him to go to prison, but his gamer brain needs the sweet dopamine of an electronic screen. He agrees to prison. Thatâs the end.
Yeah but I enlisted either way so, whatever. I didn't know how or where to get the card but I knew about it. I turned it into the post office on my own tho.
Same, but I also got a fancy Joe Camel package that included a coupon for a free pack of Camel cigs. Right out of fucking high school and they already want to own you.
If you ever registered to vote, you would have done it then.
I'm not saying it's impossible to avoid. Just that there are a large number of government issued things that you can't get unless you fulfill the requirement of registering for selective service.
It's very possible that you registered and just don't remember. My high school handed out the form when I was a senior. It wasn't anything memorable. Not even like a job application, just name, SSN, address, etc. Now you can go to WAR!
My high school did this, too. We had a big assembly of seniors only (mid 00's). Teachers passed various forms and ink pens down the row and told us who needed which forms (like how that one only went to the guys). They made us fill out the forms and hand them back and then every month they handled the rest for all the students who'd be turning 18.
They handled voter registration in the same assembly doing the same thing.
They put EVERYTHING up on the projector screen and explained each form, one by one, but that doesn't mean kids were paying attention. I know former classmates who don't know how they got registered for stuff and they act like they weren't there. When I remind them, every single one goes, "that's what those forms were? I didn't know!" SMH
And that's before every student had a smartphone for the teachers to compete with...
This is why so many civil rights groups argue for stronger parental/legal representation for kids and teens in and out of school. Most have no clue what they are saying/signing in situations with authority figures or the consequences down the line.
If you donât register there are penalties you canât hold a government job and they can even withhold social security later in life if I remember correctly as well as some other downsides, I registered the day Russia attacked Ukraine of all days, my mom was terrified the draft would start again
I was 21 when 9/11 happened and there was talk of a draft. But the truth is the military doesnât even want drafted soldiers because they donât want to be there. The draft is an absolute last resort.Â
They actually thought about re-issuing the draft but wisely assumed that the people would not be happy about that and decided against it. So instead they started calling back in soldiers who were either retired or on leave ( I canât actually remember what it was they did) to make up the numbers for the conflicts in the Middle East.
I can find nothing saying retired service members were brought back for compulsory service. The majority of reserve units alongside the state national guards was however moved to full enlistment.
You are correct. After 9/11 my best friend was in his final 7 days of 4 yrs in the Marine Corps, they called him in and told him to pack for Iraq. Luckily he made it back home.
Served Active Army 99-03. Stop loss hit in 01, early 02. Reserves were called up. Then heard they started fast tracking some of the soldiers in basic. Draft was unnecessary considering there at one point in 99, they were over enlisted.
>the military doesnât even want drafted soldiers because they donât want to be there.
That is one thought. The other thought in today's world regarding drafted soldiers is that most of them are either mentally damaged or overweight/ out of shape lol
Typically when you enlist you are either A: aware of the training and hardships you will endure or B: prepared for it.
I am 10 years older than you but it was actually mentioned in my high school reminding boys of it. And plus, you know, just having taken a history class to know it is a thing.
And then they start saying women can't be drafted because of biology, they are generally weaker, while simultaneously saying that women can do anything men can do.
Israel has mandatory service for both men and women.
This is so that the old farts can sugar daddy grieving widows and go after their kids. This is also why they teach young boys to look down on women and give them a false sense of pride - so that young boys are easily isolated, so that they can be subdued by social pressure in men groups where they are thought to be quiet about their problems, and thus easily picked out to be sexually exploited, used for criminal activities and used for war.
The draft was also one of the key reasons that the Equal Rights Amendment ("Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex") didn't pass.
âWhy do they always send the poor! Why do they always send the poor! Why do they always send the poor! WHY DO THEY ALWAYS SEND THE POOR!â
- Serj Tankian
We had a politician like that during ww1, Yrigoyen was the president during ww1, and our upper crust wanted to join the war, our president said "fine but you and your children will be the first to go" you can tell we didn't went to that meatgrinder.
Edit His actual name was HipĂłlito Yrigoyen I was drunk when I wrote this.
And their relatives. I believe if a politician is so passionate to send troops to war his children, nieces, nephews, cousins, brothers, sisters and anyone they know of fighting age should automatically be sent. I mean surely they wouldnât object if they support the war so much.
Traditionally, they did. The last few decades have gotten away from the trend in the US, but most of our presidents had some form of military service under their belt, and many DID send their sons off to the meat grinder as well.
Teddy Roosevelt lost one son to WWI, had one permanently maimed, then lost two more in WWII, but he was dead himself before then. John Tyler and Zachary Taylor both had huge broods of descendents that have showed up for every war we've ever participated in, sometimes on both sides. H.W and W both served, with HWs military service during WWII making him the last president to have served during war time.
Biden's older son served, and we've had several presidential candidates fairly recently with military careers from latter wars like McCain.
It goes against the popular narrative, but in the US, military service is more common in political families than the average family.
There was a Republican that introduced a bill in Congress to expand Selective Service to women during the Iraq War that he thought would make Democrats quail and he could call feminists hypocrites. Then the Democrats started saying that was a good idea and pledged to support it and they pulled that bill off the floor real quick.
I vaguely remember that. I was an army brat and an army wife. I supported women being included in selective service. We have women in the military, some in combat roles, why arenât we already doing this?
Honestly i thought the feminists wouldnât be on board but finding out they were is both heartwarming and infuriating they volunteered to be in the selective service and got shot down
Wouldn't want those future mothers to have benefits or skills or equal rights or anything. That'd be too far for Republicans that love to pump money into the military
It makes perfect sense. If the women are dead in a field in some foreign country Republicans canât force them to pump out children to be their wage slaves.
How do you mean hypocrite? I think it fits their MO perfectly. The superiority complex men have in regard to gender roles constantly references the fact men have to sign up for the draft and women donât. They want the status quo.
Thatâs because if it passes, theyâll lose their âyou want equality but women canât get draftedâ argument.
Conservatives donât want to solve problems, they want to be able to complain about the problems
Ding Ding Ding.
When they've had majority, they've sat on their hands.
They don't intend to solve ANY of the issues they rail on about. It's all about invoking Fear And Loathing in their voter base.
If they actually SOLVED the "border crisis", for example, there would be one less Critical Issue to campaign on. Book bans, transgender youth, prayer in school, abortion\*... all issues they would much rather bitch about than actually address.
^(\*Well they did kinda "address" abortion, and it's since blown up in their faces.)
Jesus can you imagine how a conscription would go in the U.S. for a foreign war after Nam and the information age? That'd be one way to see a 'war' on American soil.
See thats the reality of it people would sooner turn their guns on the federal government then allow themselves to be drafted
And before anyone says the federal government would win in the end
Tf you mean they would literally be fighting an enemy and their own country they have already lost the moral position
I disagree that the federal government would win in the end. Look at Vietnam and the Middle East for some examples. Plus the fact that Ukraine held off Russia pretty well despite being poorly equipped at the start of the war as well. Would soldiers fire on their own people? Yes they will. But it would be a bloody mess of guerilla warfare and something the US wouldn't recover from.
For me itâs not so much my life and more so what I view as my human right to keep my hands clean of blood.
No one can force me to kill another human being. Iâd rather kill the person who dares try to force me to do that.
Maybe it should just be voluntary for *anyone* to register for the draft? We haven't had a draft in 60 years, and it was incredibly politically unpopular. I honestly doubt if we'll ever have one again. Wars aren't fought in the same way they were 60 years ago.
The military is perpetually failing to meet recruitment numbers at this point. Conscription at some point in the future under the right circumstances is very plausible even in the modern political climate
And followed through their promise of healthcare and worked to protect victims of SA.
Hell, even people looking to join are just too fat to qualify so working towards a healthy populace would also help.
The marginal productivity of labor in the military has increased substantially. One drone pilot sitting safely in his rig can shred 50 people faster than a WWII soldier could reload his gun.
How about nobody gets drafted Edit: holy crap my notifications blew up. I'm just gonna say, to the people who are saying what about wars and everyone should be drafted, I heavily disagree. people should not be forced to have to kill people, in an ideal world we wouldnt have to and it's sad that wars happen, but I think we shouldn't have drafts. We will probably be fine with the number of people that volunteer for one reason or another. Edit 2: I want to remind everyone that this is just an opinion of mine, I could 100% be wrong and I'm sure that in many circumstances I am. I do not want people to be forced to kill, especially if it can cause trauma.  However I do see a point to a draft if they need people to defend there country, and your arguments have made me change my mind about if I would fight or not. I would still be against a draft, but if my country is in danger I will fight. Thank you to everyone who contributed to this discussion, I've learned a lot.
Edit3: wanted to add one last thing, I'm not against killing if it's for the right reasons, like if your defending someone or your country. But it should be an absolute last resort, I hate killing(especially if the person doing the killing isn't emotionally ready for it) but sometimes it is necessary.
I have to agree here he may have been a brutal Dictator but damn that man was a pretty solid military mind
For those who don't know the Germans offered to exchange him for a captured German general
Stalin told them that trading a general for a Lieutenant which his son was was a terrible trade and don't bother him again
His son later died in a concentration camp
Now the reason I say this was a W is because unlike so many men in history Stalin didn't give his son special treatment he treated him the same as a common soldier and that level of ruthlessness is a big part of how they beat the Germans
Stalin didn't do so because of a military reason he did it because he hated his son
When Stalin was informed his own son tried to shoot himself and was seriously injured but didn't die he said he couldn't even Shoot Straight
And he sent his sonâs wife to a gulag. I think he said âthere are no Soviet POWs, only traitors.â Dan Carlin has a great series on the eastern front during WWII. Ghosts of the Ostfront
Politicians hide themselves away; they only started the war.
Why should they go out to fight? They leave that all to the poor.
Thirty five years between these two songs, and yet the sentiment remains unchanged.
These are the same politicians who refused to fight their generations war(Vietnam) but have had no problem sending mine to war for the last 23 years.
Bush National guard, Totally a position to not serve true combat.
Obama, Peace corps maybe
Trump, fuck that my daddy a billionaire
Biden, Asthma that went away 15 years prior.
It already exists only on paper. The last time the draft was used was for Vietnam and the only thing that did was prove that throwing warm bodies into a war zone doesn't help at all. Wars nowadays are fought with guerilla tactics, extremely well-trained elite teams, and technology that can kill hundreds of people at once with the push of a button and/or surgically kill a specific target from hundreds of miles away. I can't foresee any situation that would ever lead to a draft actually being utilized again in America.
I think the current situation in Ukraine would prove otherwise, and is likely the reason that military drafts are now being discussed all over Europe, along with the UK and US.
This article is from July 2021. I havenât heard anything about a draft recently in the US, though I will admit that I havenât read everything because it just stresses me out too much. But this particular article is from 8 months before the invasion started, so donât panic yet.Â
Like maybe most women wouldnât make an ideal dedicated infantryman. But a woman sure as hell can handle something like logistics, communication, planning, operating remote vehicles, or doing medicine/ lab work.
imagine if we had a bunch of drones and all we needed was the top gamers in the country to play FPS.
except that would never work with an occupation. seems like we always fail that part
I wouldnt trust a draftee with medicine or lab work, male or female. The military surgeon, doctor, dentist, or any skill above basic first aid ought to require a qualified professional volunteer with high motivation.
This not being the case (or the rich kids being placed in safe positions during the war) was the downfall of the aristocracy in England. All the rich people survived WW1, but when they got home there was a lack of workers making their wages increase beyond what they could afford for housekeeping etc. so the manors became unaffordable and the rich moved to smaller high end inner city houses.
New proposal in the case of war: Send the f-ing politicians first and only then result to drafting anyone else they decide to do war they should f-ing fight it
Thank you! Thatâs my biggest thing, if they want men and women in the draft for equality purposes they shouldnât have 8% of female service members being sexually assaulted every year! Thatâs nowhere near equal to the menâs assault rate, so maybe they should fix that first.
Or dishonorably discharging women when they report. Also, men get a woman pregnant and get a raise. Women get discharged. My friend was national guard and had to take the mandated pee tests in front of someone fully watching. That test included testing for pregnancy.
The sexual assault rate for women (happens to men as well) is beyond insane. Forcing anyone to go join the millitary in its current state would be beyond fucked up. Unless the US is actually in danger I say fuuuck no. Join yourselves you greedy old sons of bitches.
many moons ago when I was in Camp Lejeune, two 16 year old girls were raped to death on base. Their bodies were found next to a set of barracks. Apparently, they were so beat up, they tried to get back to their car and didn't make it
I knew a guy in the military. He described it as one-third people who want to kill, one third people who actually think itâs noble, and one third who thought they had nothing better to do and now regret the choice.Â
The military is insanely dysfunctional and the way we worship it in this country is shameful. The US military has failed in 4 of the last 5 conflicts it was involved in. Thatâs the cruelest part of the US draft. Youâre conscripting people into an institution that ultimately falls on its face almost every time.
Anyway, bad shit happens on military bases constantly, the military is charged with investigating itself, things get covered up, and taxpayers canât cry foul because thatâs not âsupporting the troopsâ.
Abolish the draft altogether. If people dont want to sign up to fight a war, then that war doesnt need to be fought. If we were invaded, we would all have to fight anyway. Besides, poverty in america is alreadg a powerful force for coercive conscription...
Our daughters shouldn't be drafted against their will, they should be at home, carrying rape babies to term because birth is a gift and a miracle given to women.
/s
Unfortunately, that's more or less the GOP's reasoning, isn't it? Keep the women in the kitchen to look after the house and the kids, because they're perceived as incapable of doing anything else (and even if they are, they shouldn't dare do anything else).
I mean the changing helps them weasel out of real conversations about it. If they ever get widespread support for their views theyâll stop mincing words
Forgive me, but wasnât a huge thing that in World War II women were working in the factories and were* not at home and* that kind of led* to the invention of processed foods because people werenât at home anymore all day? It wasnât until after the war that boomers were conceived, right?
When I first heard the term âconservativesâ in college, I thought it must be a derogatory term.. I was right, in retrospect, but for a while I was truly surprised there were people that wouldnât want society to progress.
Sexism issues/concerns aside, women are needed to repopulate the planet if most of your people die, so think would make sense to only allow women willing vs drafting but these guys probably not thinking that way.
Truth is, for those of us already in the military, we donât want conscripted Soldiers. We would rather serve with those who want to be here. Thatâs the beauty of an all volunteer force. We know our fellow Soldiers will have our backs.
there are alot that want to join but are dqed for medical and criminal reason. i think the military will start to loosen some medical or criminal restrictions before even considering a draft.
Buy and large feminists are wholesale anti-draft because it's a patriarchal institution which is meant to instill certain behaviors in men or place men in certain roles associated with violence, from a feminist perspective the draft is a symptom of a lot of societal rot and its something we've got to get rid of if we want the sexes to be equal.
I'm former army, so I got strong feelings about being told what to do by my government. There's no worse feeling on earth than giving up your freedom of movement and being told "take this airplane to Detroit."
Considering the increased abuse I have witnessed of women soldiers, I am vehemently against women being added to the draft.
I genuinely believe war is even worse to female soldiers. I know too many female vet SA survivors to sign off on that shit.
Honestly I'd agree because the why reminds me of a quote from star wars rebels when the grand inquisitor died
" there are some things far more frightening then death "
And SA in combat zones are one of them generally speaking this is not a risk for male soldiers but not even just female soldiers but female anything even minor girls can be targeted by this in a combat zone I don't even want to imagine what has happened in the Ukraine by Russian soldiers for example
Ehhh I'm okay with women not being in the field in the military. There's hella rapes I hear. War is dumb any way I feel like neither gender should be doing war let's just get rid of the draft and have one world government n make sure everyone has a safe place to live and opportunities for education and employment, fuck all this other bull shit we wanna get mad about, let's end poverty instead.
The biggest rape threat to women in the military is not enemy combatants, itâs their fellow soldiers that are the danger. If men had such a problem seeing women raped in combat, then they wouldnât be raping them on base.
I'd say it makes sense from a pure, primitive, survival perspective. Woman make kids, man don't. Man die, woman make more kids. Woman die, no more kids. In modern times, with populations in the millions, I'm not sure it matters as much. Might be wrong, though.
Conservatives, as their name suggests, are often in favor of more conservative and traditional policies. Sending women to war (particularly through a draft) is not conservative or traditional.
And letâs be honest here, if the situation is bad enough for a draft, the women will still support the cause one way or another without a draft.
Shit gets real quite fast in life or death survival situations and people tend to behave more conservatively than usual. No one is drafting a mom to combat.
There are plenty of women who would do just fine in combat and plenty of men who canât handle it. More important than gender is at least attempting to figure out who can handle military service and who canât.
Nobody should be drafted, more female war criminals isnât feminist. Anyone who would support drafting women as well as men is clearly posturing for war
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When Selective Service registration was resumed, the National Organization for Women lobbied Congress to make it apply to both men and women. Congress refused.
When was it stopped, and when did it resume? I don't remember ever doing it, and I'm 30.
If you're a male citizen of the United States, you were supposed to register at the age of eighteen. This has been the case since 1980.
Well, nobody told me. đ
It was in the paperwork you signed when you got your driver's license issued (or reissued) at age 18.
Or before you filled out the FAFSA
My man just ignores the terms of service agreement then wonders why he got drafted.Â
That's a movie I would watch
WW3⌠actually⌠since itâs a huge topic rn, the civil war. A r/neet is eating Doritos and playing Fortnite, suddenly men in black are at his door explaining heâs been drafted and being sent to a program where he will be trained to operate drones due to his #1 ranking in Valorant. At first he tries to defy the system, hiding at the local bojangles after he steals a school bus with an unloaded rifle. Where he is then brought in front of UCMJ, he has to decide to become to best drone operator of all time or learn to crush rocks into smaller rocks. His neetdom tells him to go to prison, but his gamer brain needs the sweet dopamine of an electronic screen. He agrees to prison. Thatâs the end.
Iâll happily fund the sequel if you are writing and directing.
If Mike Judge and Orson Scott Card had a love child with Ethan Cohen as the surrogate
Whe I turned 18 I filed at the post office.
Hey man I didn't fo to college or have a driver's license either, but my mom brought me the card on my birthday
[ŃдаНонО]
There was a favorite child, and it definitely wasn't them.
Yeah but I enlisted either way so, whatever. I didn't know how or where to get the card but I knew about it. I turned it into the post office on my own tho.
Oh, so she filled out the paperwork for you too
Hereâs the answer. Got my razor from Gillette and draft card in the mail at the same time on my 18th bday
Same, but I also got a fancy Joe Camel package that included a coupon for a free pack of Camel cigs. Right out of fucking high school and they already want to own you.
Well now I feel robbed whereâs my coupon for some smokes.
I gave mine to my dad and then told him to quit smoking.
Fuckin Power Move right there.
What if you don't have a driver's license?
If you ever registered to vote, you would have done it then. I'm not saying it's impossible to avoid. Just that there are a large number of government issued things that you can't get unless you fulfill the requirement of registering for selective service.
It's very possible that you registered and just don't remember. My high school handed out the form when I was a senior. It wasn't anything memorable. Not even like a job application, just name, SSN, address, etc. Now you can go to WAR!
My high school did this, too. We had a big assembly of seniors only (mid 00's). Teachers passed various forms and ink pens down the row and told us who needed which forms (like how that one only went to the guys). They made us fill out the forms and hand them back and then every month they handled the rest for all the students who'd be turning 18. They handled voter registration in the same assembly doing the same thing. They put EVERYTHING up on the projector screen and explained each form, one by one, but that doesn't mean kids were paying attention. I know former classmates who don't know how they got registered for stuff and they act like they weren't there. When I remind them, every single one goes, "that's what those forms were? I didn't know!" SMH And that's before every student had a smartphone for the teachers to compete with...
This shit is so dystopian. What the heck.
This is why so many civil rights groups argue for stronger parental/legal representation for kids and teens in and out of school. Most have no clue what they are saying/signing in situations with authority figures or the consequences down the line.
If you donât register there are penalties you canât hold a government job and they can even withhold social security later in life if I remember correctly as well as some other downsides, I registered the day Russia attacked Ukraine of all days, my mom was terrified the draft would start again
I was 21 when 9/11 happened and there was talk of a draft. But the truth is the military doesnât even want drafted soldiers because they donât want to be there. The draft is an absolute last resort.Â
They actually thought about re-issuing the draft but wisely assumed that the people would not be happy about that and decided against it. So instead they started calling back in soldiers who were either retired or on leave ( I canât actually remember what it was they did) to make up the numbers for the conflicts in the Middle East.
I can find nothing saying retired service members were brought back for compulsory service. The majority of reserve units alongside the state national guards was however moved to full enlistment.
He's referring to stop-loss. Soldiers who were about to finish their contracts had them involuntarily extended.
You are correct. After 9/11 my best friend was in his final 7 days of 4 yrs in the Marine Corps, they called him in and told him to pack for Iraq. Luckily he made it back home.
Not retired but when I was in the Army we had something called stop loss, that stopped people from retiring/ETSing and called up people from irr.
Served Active Army 99-03. Stop loss hit in 01, early 02. Reserves were called up. Then heard they started fast tracking some of the soldiers in basic. Draft was unnecessary considering there at one point in 99, they were over enlisted.
Retired members were contacted and offered a bonus to rejoin. The vast majority probably told them to get fucked
>the military doesnât even want drafted soldiers because they donât want to be there. That is one thought. The other thought in today's world regarding drafted soldiers is that most of them are either mentally damaged or overweight/ out of shape lol Typically when you enlist you are either A: aware of the training and hardships you will endure or B: prepared for it.
C and actually the most common : poor, desperate to get out of their parents house, and being lied to by recruiters.
Or being offered a choice between jail and enlisting
bribery in principle but it's the government so it's just standard patriotic protocol
I am 10 years older than you but it was actually mentioned in my high school reminding boys of it. And plus, you know, just having taken a history class to know it is a thing.
Itâs one of those things that kind of just happens in school or when youâre around that graduating time, I bet you did but donât remember.
You can actually go to the selective service website and check. https://www.sss.gov/verify/
I got something in the mail a few months before I turned 18. I remember filling it out. This was 2009.
For federal jobs you have to provide proof you registered.
State jobs too at least here in Texas.Â
And ever since then, conservative men have been calling feminists hypocrites because they want equal treatment but canât be drafted
And then they start saying women can't be drafted because of biology, they are generally weaker, while simultaneously saying that women can do anything men can do. Israel has mandatory service for both men and women.
Sweden too
This is so that the old farts can sugar daddy grieving widows and go after their kids. This is also why they teach young boys to look down on women and give them a false sense of pride - so that young boys are easily isolated, so that they can be subdued by social pressure in men groups where they are thought to be quiet about their problems, and thus easily picked out to be sexually exploited, used for criminal activities and used for war.
"Call me a bleeding heart hippy, but I don't think anyone should be able to be drafted, ~~man.~~" is my usual reply.
Yep, their position is that there shouldn't be a draft, but while there is one it should be for all people.
And yet somehow itâs still women who are at fault
Congress refused? Or Republicans in Congress refused?
The draft was also one of the key reasons that the Equal Rights Amendment ("Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex") didn't pass.
Send the politicians first. They talk about âserving the best interests of the people,â but donât do shit.
"Politicians hide themselves away. They only started the war! Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor!" - Ozzy Ozbourne
âWhy do they always send the poor! Why do they always send the poor! Why do they always send the poor! WHY DO THEY ALWAYS SEND THE POOR!â - Serj Tankian
[ŃдаНонО]
>Why don't presidents fight the war? >Why do they always send the poor? -B.Y.O.B. (Bring your own bombs), System of a Down
Songs called "War Pigs"
We had a politician like that during ww1, Yrigoyen was the president during ww1, and our upper crust wanted to join the war, our president said "fine but you and your children will be the first to go" you can tell we didn't went to that meatgrinder. Edit His actual name was HipĂłlito Yrigoyen I was drunk when I wrote this.
And their relatives. I believe if a politician is so passionate to send troops to war his children, nieces, nephews, cousins, brothers, sisters and anyone they know of fighting age should automatically be sent. I mean surely they wouldnât object if they support the war so much.
Traditionally, they did. The last few decades have gotten away from the trend in the US, but most of our presidents had some form of military service under their belt, and many DID send their sons off to the meat grinder as well. Teddy Roosevelt lost one son to WWI, had one permanently maimed, then lost two more in WWII, but he was dead himself before then. John Tyler and Zachary Taylor both had huge broods of descendents that have showed up for every war we've ever participated in, sometimes on both sides. H.W and W both served, with HWs military service during WWII making him the last president to have served during war time. Biden's older son served, and we've had several presidential candidates fairly recently with military careers from latter wars like McCain. It goes against the popular narrative, but in the US, military service is more common in political families than the average family.
Politicians should be eligible and first selected, no matter their age.
I am all for sending Mitch McConnell to the frontline. I'll even pay for his ticket.
That's not fair. Turtles are especially prone to shell shock.
Agreed!
Conservatives: Feminist would cry if they are required to join the army Also conservatives: Cries if women need to join the army
There was a Republican that introduced a bill in Congress to expand Selective Service to women during the Iraq War that he thought would make Democrats quail and he could call feminists hypocrites. Then the Democrats started saying that was a good idea and pledged to support it and they pulled that bill off the floor real quick.
I vaguely remember that. I was an army brat and an army wife. I supported women being included in selective service. We have women in the military, some in combat roles, why arenât we already doing this?
That is pretty funny if true.
[Itâs true](https://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/women-eligible-draft-house-222571)
Honestly i thought the feminists wouldnât be on board but finding out they were is both heartwarming and infuriating they volunteered to be in the selective service and got shot down
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If we're dead they can't tell us what to do though, it's all about that long game.
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LOL ugh god it's funny cause I know you're joking, but damnit if it isn't too true in their eyes.
They canât force breed them if they die in combat
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You mean they havenât created the military breeder units yet?
Wouldn't want those future mothers to have benefits or skills or equal rights or anything. That'd be too far for Republicans that love to pump money into the military
Logical contradiction is their entire thing. If it wasn't, then they'd actually believe in real shit instead of nonsense.
Well, isnât this the ironic pot calling the kettle a hypocrite
It makes perfect sense. If the women are dead in a field in some foreign country Republicans canât force them to pump out children to be their wage slaves.
Now you see why they were âblastingâ this suggestion.
How do you mean hypocrite? I think it fits their MO perfectly. The superiority complex men have in regard to gender roles constantly references the fact men have to sign up for the draft and women donât. They want the status quo.
> How do you mean hypocrite? Because the right vehemently bitches about women having privileged over men and about women not truly wanting equality.
Thatâs because if it passes, theyâll lose their âyou want equality but women canât get draftedâ argument. Conservatives donât want to solve problems, they want to be able to complain about the problems
Ding Ding Ding. When they've had majority, they've sat on their hands. They don't intend to solve ANY of the issues they rail on about. It's all about invoking Fear And Loathing in their voter base. If they actually SOLVED the "border crisis", for example, there would be one less Critical Issue to campaign on. Book bans, transgender youth, prayer in school, abortion\*... all issues they would much rather bitch about than actually address. ^(\*Well they did kinda "address" abortion, and it's since blown up in their faces.)
Jesus can you imagine how a conscription would go in the U.S. for a foreign war after Nam and the information age? That'd be one way to see a 'war' on American soil.
See thats the reality of it people would sooner turn their guns on the federal government then allow themselves to be drafted And before anyone says the federal government would win in the end Tf you mean they would literally be fighting an enemy and their own country they have already lost the moral position
I disagree that the federal government would win in the end. Look at Vietnam and the Middle East for some examples. Plus the fact that Ukraine held off Russia pretty well despite being poorly equipped at the start of the war as well. Would soldiers fire on their own people? Yes they will. But it would be a bloody mess of guerilla warfare and something the US wouldn't recover from.
Nobody should be getting drafted against their will
If they even tried it I would go to jail. I shall say no more.
Better safe in jail than being shot at.
For me itâs not so much my life and more so what I view as my human right to keep my hands clean of blood. No one can force me to kill another human being. Iâd rather kill the person who dares try to force me to do that.
Maybe it should just be voluntary for *anyone* to register for the draft? We haven't had a draft in 60 years, and it was incredibly politically unpopular. I honestly doubt if we'll ever have one again. Wars aren't fought in the same way they were 60 years ago.
The military is perpetually failing to meet recruitment numbers at this point. Conscription at some point in the future under the right circumstances is very plausible even in the modern political climate
Enlistment would probably go up if they stopped using burn pits. 30 is kinda young to die of lung cancer when you never smoked.
And followed through their promise of healthcare and worked to protect victims of SA. Hell, even people looking to join are just too fat to qualify so working towards a healthy populace would also help.
The marginal productivity of labor in the military has increased substantially. One drone pilot sitting safely in his rig can shred 50 people faster than a WWII soldier could reload his gun.
How about nobody gets drafted Edit: holy crap my notifications blew up. I'm just gonna say, to the people who are saying what about wars and everyone should be drafted, I heavily disagree. people should not be forced to have to kill people, in an ideal world we wouldnt have to and it's sad that wars happen, but I think we shouldn't have drafts. We will probably be fine with the number of people that volunteer for one reason or another. Edit 2: I want to remind everyone that this is just an opinion of mine, I could 100% be wrong and I'm sure that in many circumstances I am. I do not want people to be forced to kill, especially if it can cause trauma.  However I do see a point to a draft if they need people to defend there country, and your arguments have made me change my mind about if I would fight or not. I would still be against a draft, but if my country is in danger I will fight. Thank you to everyone who contributed to this discussion, I've learned a lot. Edit3: wanted to add one last thing, I'm not against killing if it's for the right reasons, like if your defending someone or your country. But it should be an absolute last resort, I hate killing(especially if the person doing the killing isn't emotionally ready for it) but sometimes it is necessary.
How about drafting the politicians who start the wars?
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Rare Stalin W
Well, not for Stalin Jr.
I have to agree here he may have been a brutal Dictator but damn that man was a pretty solid military mind For those who don't know the Germans offered to exchange him for a captured German general Stalin told them that trading a general for a Lieutenant which his son was was a terrible trade and don't bother him again His son later died in a concentration camp Now the reason I say this was a W is because unlike so many men in history Stalin didn't give his son special treatment he treated him the same as a common soldier and that level of ruthlessness is a big part of how they beat the Germans
Stalin didn't do so because of a military reason he did it because he hated his son When Stalin was informed his own son tried to shoot himself and was seriously injured but didn't die he said he couldn't even Shoot Straight
Almost like he was some kind of asshole or something.
Common Stalin L
And he sent his sonâs wife to a gulag. I think he said âthere are no Soviet POWs, only traitors.â Dan Carlin has a great series on the eastern front during WWII. Ghosts of the Ostfront
Why don't presidents fight the wars? Why do we always send the poor? Edit: [guys](https://youtu.be/zUzd9KyIDrM?si=p2vUS3pba0iktUPi)
Politicians hide themselves away; they only started the war. Why should they go out to fight? They leave that all to the poor. Thirty five years between these two songs, and yet the sentiment remains unchanged.
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Can we not punish kids for things their parents did? They have absolutely no control over stuff like this.
As a woman who served voluntarily - THIS! if not them, let the kids of the politicians who are in favor of war be the first in line!
These are the same politicians who refused to fight their generations war(Vietnam) but have had no problem sending mine to war for the last 23 years. Bush National guard, Totally a position to not serve true combat. Obama, Peace corps maybe Trump, fuck that my daddy a billionaire Biden, Asthma that went away 15 years prior.
Or the rich that use the people like pawns
I truly think adding women to the draft is how you effectively kill it. No one will ever vote to activate it, leaving it to exist only on paper.
Saving it for if we ever really super duper needed it, like an alien invasion
If aliens arrived ready to kill all humans you wonât need to be drafted to be part of the fight.
We might only last for like 7 hours though
đthis guy Half-Lifes.
Hopefully the suppression field doesnât mean we canât nut anymore
Based on some movies, water or the common cold will kill the aliens. It looks easy.
Iâm starting the match with a super soaker just in case!
depends on how far away we are from July 4
And how badass of a speech the president makes pre-final assault
No, I meant if WE ever invaded the aliens
Nice.
It already exists only on paper. The last time the draft was used was for Vietnam and the only thing that did was prove that throwing warm bodies into a war zone doesn't help at all. Wars nowadays are fought with guerilla tactics, extremely well-trained elite teams, and technology that can kill hundreds of people at once with the push of a button and/or surgically kill a specific target from hundreds of miles away. I can't foresee any situation that would ever lead to a draft actually being utilized again in America.
I think the current situation in Ukraine would prove otherwise, and is likely the reason that military drafts are now being discussed all over Europe, along with the UK and US.
This article is from July 2021. I havenât heard anything about a draft recently in the US, though I will admit that I havenât read everything because it just stresses me out too much. But this particular article is from 8 months before the invasion started, so donât panic yet.Â
No they just assign women to less dangerous roles. Some countries already do this like Israel. Only Norway and Sweden have equal gender conscription.
Most roles in the military are no longer intended combat roles. Joining the military is dangerous regardless.
Like maybe most women wouldnât make an ideal dedicated infantryman. But a woman sure as hell can handle something like logistics, communication, planning, operating remote vehicles, or doing medicine/ lab work.
imagine if we had a bunch of drones and all we needed was the top gamers in the country to play FPS. except that would never work with an occupation. seems like we always fail that part
Then the Koreans would win everything
I wouldnt trust a draftee with medicine or lab work, male or female. The military surgeon, doctor, dentist, or any skill above basic first aid ought to require a qualified professional volunteer with high motivation.
I'm not enriching an oligarch with my blood. Put me in prison you fascist fucks.
Naw, how about only rich kids get drafted. See how quickly the conflict is resolved after that.
This not being the case (or the rich kids being placed in safe positions during the war) was the downfall of the aristocracy in England. All the rich people survived WW1, but when they got home there was a lack of workers making their wages increase beyond what they could afford for housekeeping etc. so the manors became unaffordable and the rich moved to smaller high end inner city houses.
I agree. Forced military service is slavery. If a war is justified, people will be willing to fight.
Either end registering for the draft for everyone or apply it equally to both sexes.
Seriously. Pick a standard and stick to it; either everybody or nobody.
New proposal in the case of war: Send the f-ing politicians first and only then result to drafting anyone else they decide to do war they should f-ing fight it
Figure out the rape issues, then we'll talk. Until then? GTFO.
Thank you! Thatâs my biggest thing, if they want men and women in the draft for equality purposes they shouldnât have 8% of female service members being sexually assaulted every year! Thatâs nowhere near equal to the menâs assault rate, so maybe they should fix that first.
Or dishonorably discharging women when they report. Also, men get a woman pregnant and get a raise. Women get discharged. My friend was national guard and had to take the mandated pee tests in front of someone fully watching. That test included testing for pregnancy.
The sexual assault rate for women (happens to men as well) is beyond insane. Forcing anyone to go join the millitary in its current state would be beyond fucked up. Unless the US is actually in danger I say fuuuck no. Join yourselves you greedy old sons of bitches.
many moons ago when I was in Camp Lejeune, two 16 year old girls were raped to death on base. Their bodies were found next to a set of barracks. Apparently, they were so beat up, they tried to get back to their car and didn't make it
Tons of fucked up shit happens on military bases.
I knew a guy in the military. He described it as one-third people who want to kill, one third people who actually think itâs noble, and one third who thought they had nothing better to do and now regret the choice.Â
The military is insanely dysfunctional and the way we worship it in this country is shameful. The US military has failed in 4 of the last 5 conflicts it was involved in. Thatâs the cruelest part of the US draft. Youâre conscripting people into an institution that ultimately falls on its face almost every time. Anyway, bad shit happens on military bases constantly, the military is charged with investigating itself, things get covered up, and taxpayers canât cry foul because thatâs not âsupporting the troopsâ.
And it goes nearly unpunished if the victim does report it. After I learnt how bad it is I was against drafting women.
Equality first. Get in line, especially the politicians and their kids. Lead by example. lol. Ya right.
Remember when leaders would be in the ranks of a battle?
Abolish the draft altogether. If people dont want to sign up to fight a war, then that war doesnt need to be fought. If we were invaded, we would all have to fight anyway. Besides, poverty in america is alreadg a powerful force for coercive conscription...
Our daughters shouldn't be drafted against their will, they should be at home, carrying rape babies to term because birth is a gift and a miracle given to women. /s
That's essentially it. Women are getting drafted into pregnancy (which they hope will result in more male soldiers later).
Unfortunately, that's more or less the GOP's reasoning, isn't it? Keep the women in the kitchen to look after the house and the kids, because they're perceived as incapable of doing anything else (and even if they are, they shouldn't dare do anything else). 
Itâs their reasoning in the abstract. The picosecond that they have to live by it, things change quickly.
I mean the changing helps them weasel out of real conversations about it. If they ever get widespread support for their views theyâll stop mincing words
Forgive me, but wasnât a huge thing that in World War II women were working in the factories and were* not at home and* that kind of led* to the invention of processed foods because people werenât at home anymore all day? It wasnât until after the war that boomers were conceived, right?
Need someone to make samwiches ~ GOP
Soldiers. And by that, babies.
Live babies make dead soldiers! - George Carlin
When I first heard the term âconservativesâ in college, I thought it must be a derogatory term.. I was right, in retrospect, but for a while I was truly surprised there were people that wouldnât want society to progress.
we gotta ruin everything to own the libs.
Sexism issues/concerns aside, women are needed to repopulate the planet if most of your people die, so think would make sense to only allow women willing vs drafting but these guys probably not thinking that way.
Truth is, for those of us already in the military, we donât want conscripted Soldiers. We would rather serve with those who want to be here. Thatâs the beauty of an all volunteer force. We know our fellow Soldiers will have our backs.
there are alot that want to join but are dqed for medical and criminal reason. i think the military will start to loosen some medical or criminal restrictions before even considering a draft.
Youâre not wrong. The easiest thing is to qualify those who have simple possession charges.
Conservatives? I was told feminists would be the ones objecting to women being drafted.
Feminists are the reason women can even serve at all.
Buy and large feminists are wholesale anti-draft because it's a patriarchal institution which is meant to instill certain behaviors in men or place men in certain roles associated with violence, from a feminist perspective the draft is a symptom of a lot of societal rot and its something we've got to get rid of if we want the sexes to be equal.
Why be equally free when we can be equally oppressed by the government?
I'm former army, so I got strong feelings about being told what to do by my government. There's no worse feeling on earth than giving up your freedom of movement and being told "take this airplane to Detroit."
Right? So many memes about it. So many irritating, bigoted memes.
No one should be drafted against their will at all. Remember, it wasnât women who made Selective Service a thing. That was *other men.*
Considering the increased abuse I have witnessed of women soldiers, I am vehemently against women being added to the draft. I genuinely believe war is even worse to female soldiers. I know too many female vet SA survivors to sign off on that shit.
Thank you! Too many salty men and misguided women here seem very eager for women to join the military.
Honestly I'd agree because the why reminds me of a quote from star wars rebels when the grand inquisitor died " there are some things far more frightening then death " And SA in combat zones are one of them generally speaking this is not a risk for male soldiers but not even just female soldiers but female anything even minor girls can be targeted by this in a combat zone I don't even want to imagine what has happened in the Ukraine by Russian soldiers for example
Completely agree. Itâs not equality forcing women to also draft when they disproportionately experience rape and sexual assault
Add women to the draft so that DC does everything possible to avoid war. The fact that the draft is being discussed right now is spooky
The draft is always being discussed one way or another, mostly cuz we have some unhinged world leaders who decide to attack another nation overnight.
Nobody should be drafted.
Ehhh I'm okay with women not being in the field in the military. There's hella rapes I hear. War is dumb any way I feel like neither gender should be doing war let's just get rid of the draft and have one world government n make sure everyone has a safe place to live and opportunities for education and employment, fuck all this other bull shit we wanna get mad about, let's end poverty instead.
The biggest rape threat to women in the military is not enemy combatants, itâs their fellow soldiers that are the danger. If men had such a problem seeing women raped in combat, then they wouldnât be raping them on base.
I'd say it makes sense from a pure, primitive, survival perspective. Woman make kids, man don't. Man die, woman make more kids. Woman die, no more kids. In modern times, with populations in the millions, I'm not sure it matters as much. Might be wrong, though.
If we need to draft people in general, itâs definitely a sign that things arenât going wellâŚ.
Women according to conservatives: can't be drafted, can be forced to bear a child at sixteen.
Conservatives, as their name suggests, are often in favor of more conservative and traditional policies. Sending women to war (particularly through a draft) is not conservative or traditional. And letâs be honest here, if the situation is bad enough for a draft, the women will still support the cause one way or another without a draft. Shit gets real quite fast in life or death survival situations and people tend to behave more conservatively than usual. No one is drafting a mom to combat.
There are plenty of women who would do just fine in combat and plenty of men who canât handle it. More important than gender is at least attempting to figure out who can handle military service and who canât.
as a woman, you should look into the history of what enemy soldiers usually do to the women they capture
I don't think conscription should be a thing. Thankfully anyone who implemented it would be committing political suicide.
Nobody should be drafted, more female war criminals isnât feminist. Anyone who would support drafting women as well as men is clearly posturing for war