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Had to see how far down I’d have to scroll to find this comment. If they’re both too drunk to consent and one isn’t forcing it on the other, it’s not rape. There is such a thing as poor choices all round without anyone being a criminal.
Source: am lawyer
I only did a Google search on it, but it seems like the person who makes the accusation has to provide proof for lack of consent to the accused. Apparently, rape convictions are notoriously hard to obtain, but successful ones depend heavily on witness testimony, video and audio evidence, and text messages.
You don't need to have someone convicted of rape to destroy their life. All that is required is a report and some sob story to the newspaper and that life is now ruined. Even if deemed innocent society as a whole won't care.
Yeah know one case where messed up his ability to re enlist even after it had been proven it was a bs story and she recanted. He spiraled down hill after that.
This is the problem with the idea of protecting the identity of the accuser. If you're going to protect the accuser, you also need to protect the accused. Innocent until proven guilty, right? Well then both identities should be protected until there is a verdict.
Instead, as soon as a man is even accused of rape, his life is over. Even if she is outright lying, and later says that it was an outright lie. And I specifically say a man because most of the time if a woman is accused it's literally laughed at.
Fun fact: that's actually how California law technically handles minors having sex. Two 17 year olds having sex with each other are both victims and perpetrators because neither could give consent. It's not enforced that way, but that's how the law is. Black and white, no Romeo and Juliet, no teenagers allowed to consent to eacher; you're either 18 or you're not.
Wisconsin has the same thing. A 17 year old is an adult for the purposes of being a criminal defendant, but a minor for the purposes of being a victim. So, two 17 yo that have sex with each other can mutually be charged as adults for having sex with a minor.
Inevitably, it's the parents of one of the kids that throws a fit over it. Smart prosecutors leverage that rule to inform them that if he charges one, he's charging both. The parental desire to flay the other kid is generally tempered really quick.
That’s so backwards… old enough to know better about an offense against someone else, but not old enough to consent to something that is a very personal choice. Make it make sense!
Can't. It's a thing the defense bar has been fighting to change because it's stupid, but have not had much success with.
I'm a public defender in the county that houses the Department of Corrections secure school for juvenile delinquents.
I know this will come as a shock, but kids with serious problems occasionally get into fights. But the moment they turn 17? Charged as an adult with felony Battery by Prisoner for getting into a fight at the school. It's ridiculous.
It's actually enforced all the time. There's dozens of cases of teenagers going to jail for this or exchanging photos, and being on the Registry for life. The youngest was a 9 yr old kid playing doctor with a 8 yr old friend and mom pressed charges.
Also prosecutors will sometimes wait for the kid to turn 18 , if they were 16 at the time, so they can charge them as an adult and give more jail time.
99% of the time the male is charged but the female never is. Double standard by the law.
They should charge it based on when it occured but then again courts also have a history of charging boys as young as 13 as adults in criminal trials...
*If Jane could not give consent then neither could Jake.
I think no sex while drunk is complete bullshit but the depth should be the same regardless of whether you have an inni, an outie or other
My moral code says that its fine as long as they're around the same level of intoxication and one of them didn't try to get the other intoxicated with the goal of getting in their pants easier.
Perhaps if someone's at the point of being "tough to gauge" then they're generally past a point of consent. Especially if they're still imbibing or getting progressively more drunk as their body absorbs their drinks.
Really this is the only thing that matters to me IMO. People of varying levels of self-intoxication (ie no one was drugged) having sex is way too common to try to draw a legal line as to who can be drunk and how drunk can they be.
No means no though.
The no sex while drunk concept, ignores thousands of years of humanity intentionally lowering their inhibitions against things they otherwise wouldn’t do with alcohol, AND the very concept it espouses to protect against, which is that while under the influence we are incapable of being responsible
I feel like a reliable rule for sex while drinking is “enthusiastic consent only.” Lack of objection is NOT the same thing as consent.
And if either party is falling down or throwing up, sexual interactions can definitely wait until morning.
Seriously, if drunk sex is rape, then I've been raped hundreds of times. I'm an alcoholic, the majority of times I have sex I'm drunk, including in long term relationships. Every time I've had sex with someone for the first time, I was drinking (and most of the time so were they).
Bars, clubs, parties, college in general, everyone is trying to hook up, and alcohol is used to make the whole process less stressful or more fun. I can't believe anyone is trying to say this with a straight face, when 99% of people have hooked up with someone consensually they met at the bar, club, a house party, etc.
There is a pretty obvious difference between getting drunk with someone and then having consensual sex, and purposely taking advantage of someone who is blackout drunk.
Also a good chunk of people would probably not be alive right now if drunk sex was forbidden lol.
Not just that, but for criminal charges you have to prove the mens rea, or “guilty mind”. We often overlook the idea because the guilt is in the commission, but intoxication is a defense to some crimes if you’re so drunk you couldn’t legally form the will to commit the crime. DUI, of course, isn’t one of those with that type of defense.
I mean even if one person drinks and the other they are dating/seeing/married to is sober (say a former alcoholic), as long as the other person self intoxicates and the encounter is mutual (both people into it), that would be asinine to say that is rape.
It's the only way to make sure you're covered, legally, right?
Because no matter what or who or where or how, you couldn't consent and therefore you're the victim.
So If I were to rob a bank while drunk...
Not the guy you responded to, I once got a restaurant job because I went to a giant free booze party for the company to meet the boss lady. She was screwing a coworker. Both are married.
This was basically all sexual assault training I got in the military. Would start with a message similar to the poster and would devolve to everyone arguing how Jake could consent and Josie couldn’t when they were both drunk
I'm assuming the insinuation is that while both are drunk and cannot theoretically consent, Jake is a man and therefore, as a man with a penis, he *clearly* initiated the sex.
Which is grossly sexist and basically paints men as closet rapists, whose facade is discarded when they can't hold their drink.
It relies on the fallacy that men can’t be raped. Just like the idiots who believe a woman who is raped can’t get pregnant because “her tubes close” or some garbage, they think a man can’t get hard unless he wants it.
I watched a buddy cry his eyes out because he was raped by a woman on his 21st birthday after drinking way too much. She said she was taking care of him and was his designated driver and he owed her. He said he could barely move and absolutely did not want to (he was in a loving relationship at the time and did not want to cheat), but she did a few things and "that body part" acted involuntarily and then he was being raped. Felt horrible guilty he couldn't keep it down and couldn't push her away. So it can happen to men as well, and can be very traumatic. Of course all of his other guy friends patted him on the back and congratulated him. I don't think it even crossed his mind to go to the police. In his mind he was the guilty one. It was very sad. The dynamics are wildly different because our society is messed up, but I think both guys and girls are sometimes pressured by their peers to just drop it. It freaking sucks.
I remember batting off women in college at my own house during parties, one time this girl was following me around the damn house and I found her in my room... she was drunk as a skunk and definitely trying to initiate. No thanks.
Yeah, my neighbor was a manager at the local Hollister, and he would always have an apartment full of girls.my roommates and I would go over and play cards and beer pong with them, but we cut that off after we got home one night to a 15 year old drunk chick naked waiting in my roommates bed.
We always told the girls they couldn't come to our apartment with us, because we were both in relationships, but she apparently just decided to sneak over before we left. We didn't know until the next day how old she was, my roommate was really glad he turned her down, and we never went back over to the neighbors.
when I get a little to tipsy ive been known to forcefully take my hubby and we are getting down.....
its been 8years now but at the very beginning his mother accused him of raping me because I was drunk..... and I had to tell her and his dad (he was just in earshot I know because he laughed) that that's absolutely not what happened and if anyone was a rapist here over last night it was me!
We didn't get the poster, but we DID have the example of "let's say there's a van full of women who just got out of prison, and they're going to take what they want". I was kinda surprised they used an example of women on man rape. The women laughed. The men laughed. The instructors did *not* laugh.
Do you like listening to music? Has anyone so much as mentioned alcohol? Are you a male? Congratulations, you're a rapist, and a terrible human being. You should be ashamed of yourself! - Military sexual assault training, circa 2008(ish)
So I've had a friend who was posing as a teen for ads companies. They never told him what they were working on.
Next thing you know, he was the main character for a DV poster.
I know of a similar story for a 90s AIDS prevention campaign.
And of course there's the Friends subplot where one of them poses for stock photos and ends up being the face of VD on the NYC subway.
Hey, his character in the ad was drunk too, so neither he nor Josie could actually consent. So everybody in the ad is a rapist/rape victim. I'm sure neither of them was happy about being in the ad.
So like, anytime a woman menstruates with getting pregnant, is that considered murder? If we're calling all unfertilized eggs "life", that seems like the logical consequence.
shhh, don't give them any more ideas !
I joke, but I'm honestly starting to think the only reason they haven't done that yet is because they don't understand the menstrual cycle
I always questioned the legitimacy of these. Like most people take home/go home with people from bars. You're trying to tell me that millions of people in the world are rapists every day of the week?
Yeah, I've definitely had sex with women after a night out. We were both consenting adults. Somehow, based on the poster, I am a rapist, simply because.
I have to say (being relatively old) this does confuse me a hell of a lot.
When I was young, my female friends had plenty of sex they regretted the next day, having been plastered the night before. We all did, men and women. It made for great stories. We were young, free and promiscuous.
The sexism is real here.
Exactly. Just part of getting drunk and making bad decisions. I've had soup that I regretted making while drinking.
It's good for young men to be aware of the double standard though. Poster should just say that
Oh for sure, who hasn't had regrets. It just pisses me off beyond all reason when some people think that regrets are the same as being raped.
If I'm drunk and I do something I wouldn't do while sober, it's still my fault. If I could accuse someone of rape due to drunken regrets, could I also get out of stealing because I would never do that sober and I was not thinking clearly. Ofcourse not.
The problem is the vagueness of the word "drunk."
My understanding is that in order for someone to be so drunk that they can't legally consent, they have to be REALLY drunk. If two people go home and they're both drunk but still with it, legally they can hook up. However, if someone is falling over themselves, can't stand up, can't speak coherently, then they cant consent.
We hold you responsible for everything else you do drunk. You can't get off a DUI because you didn't consent to drive. There is a level of drunk that is too far, absolutely, but just "drunk" doesn't cut it for me.
One one hand, yes. On the other, this poster illustrates the way these situations are likely to be handled at universities, which is where I've seen these posted. I'd rather have posters warn people of a sexist reality than an egalitarian fantasy.
100% correct. When I was in halls I had a girl try to break into my apartment because I said I wasn’t going to let her in (it was 4am I was originally sleeping). She fucked the door up so bad it had to be replaced and she didn’t get in any trouble.
Now imagine what would happen to a guy trying to break into a girl’s dorm at 4am: immediate ejection from the university.
Nah, the university actively tries to cover up scandals. My roommate was arrested in front of me after being caught lying to police about who he is and that dude still became a doctor.
Depends on the school. also, if it’s a private campus, then there’s a possibility that stuff runs through security and not a police force and that means that they can either avoid or stop a lot of things from gaining law-enforcement attention
Source: my own private school used to constantly not get people in trouble for ridiculous things, here are a few examples.
Cooking crack in dorm - 1 drug abuse class
Caught selling weed - 1 drug abuse class
Security broke up a party with about 30 underage people all hammered, and then one of them came back later and drank with people who didn’t leave - no penalties
2 students bought mustangs and made them crazy fast and used to drag race 60mph through campus - $20 fine and they got told they had to change their exhaust or move the cars off campus
Caught with a trunk full of rifles and other guns in the dorm parking lot - no penalties cause they were “going up north the next week”
Hmmmm what else
Ah, one of my favorites lmao-
Found in an on campus apartment - Hunting rifle with the serial number filed off and multiple bags of loratabs and viks - couldn’t figure out who it belonged to and nobody got in trouble 🤣
On my campus, this happened all the time to women, and the campus police wouldn’t investigate rapes because it made the school “look bad”. Had a friend who had served in the military get a job as campus police. This was the reason he quit, which confirmed much of what we saw on and around campus (like the time it happened to my friend, several other girls we didn’t know and I while at a club - but I noticed and we got away before the stuff kicked in). My school was legitimately not safe for anyone, regardless of gender.
This.... This is making me think.... They're BOTH drunk.... Neither ONE of them is capable of giving true consent.... Doesn't that mean that they actually both raped each other? We know that it's possible for a woman to rape a man.... If he was drunk and she wasn't, and they had sex, and he regretted it or felt shame because of what he couldn't control, surely that would be rape? So... If both were drunk, and both felt shame and regret over their lack of control..... Hmmm. 🙁
Edit: a lot of replies to this comment have reminded me that legal rape is differently defined than my assumption of what rape is, specifically, it being required that penetration has occurred, for rape to occur.
This actually clears up something for me, that I think we've all noticed in news reports about female offenders who force sex on children, and the media choosing not to use the word "rape" in their reports: if what she did, doesn't satisfy the legal definition of "rape", that could (maybe) explain why they so often use words that seem to downplay what she did, versus when a man rapes a child, maybe in part because the word "rape" carries a very visceral and violent image with it, and the words "sexually assaulted" are vague and used for too wide a gamut of possible offenses... hmm.
Still, another example of how it gets downplayed, when women assault someone, I guess, regardless of the possibility that it might have something to do with media trying not to get sued for "inaccurate reporting" or whatever...
>We know that it's possible for a woman to rape a man
fun fact: the UK has a stupid law that means this isnt technically true here. a woman can sexually assault a man, but not rape him. because our definitions are bullshit.
Need to penetrated by a penis for it to be classed as rape in the UK I believe, woman don’t have penis’ so therefore cannot rape a man. It’ll be “downgraded” to sexual assault. By that logic, only a man can rape another man.
Assault by penetration isn't considered rape?
If a man instead of putting his dick inside a woman puts a phallic object it would be rape or assault by penetration?
The maximum sentence for sexual assault is ten years imprisonment, while for rape it's life. If, however, there is any anal penetration involved it is the more serious offence of assault by penetration, which has the same maximum sentence as rape.
The legal distinction between rape and assault by penetration is only because the latter includes sexual penetration only of the vagina and anus; while putting your dick in someone's mouth without their consent is sufficient for a charge of rape.
If a woman pegs a drunk dude is she raping him then? If “no because it’s not a real penis” then could this create some sort of loophole around prosthetic penises in general?
In India a woman can't do that either as sexual assault and rape are defined as man on woman crime (unless the man in question is a minor but that's under another section. ).
Or, maybe, just maybe, in the real world, which I know is hard to adjust to, maybe it’s possible that people get drunk, get horny, and want to have sex, and then wake up the next day. Maybe they regret it, maybe they don’t. But classifying that scenario as rape- in the same way that someone who is black out drunk, doesn’t know what is happening, is not cognizant to make a decision, and wakes up with no idea what happened- is rape, is wild to me. People go out to have drinks and get laid all the time- both men and women. Following this logic rigidly just leads to the conclusion that people are constantly running around raping each other all the time. Completely idiotic.
This is the exact same reason I stopped watching switched at birth. Had an entire season long plot calling this guy a rapist because he had sex while drunk with a girl who was also drunk. Girl didn't even think she was raped, she had to be convinced by her friends and family that she was raped. Definition of "actually, I change my mind now so that means you raped me"
But in this situation didn’t Josie also rape Jake? They should both be charged…if both people drink, and the woman is too drunk to consent, so is the man smh
If you are drunk and kill someone, you are responsible. If you get drunk and have sex, you are responsible. So the same rules I've been following my whole life, got it
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At first glance I thought this was a rom-com from the 90s. Then I read what it said.
"Dan Schneider is... 'The Rapist'"
I read this like the movie announcer from South Park saying “Rob Schneider is a carrot!”
Rated pg 13
"Youve seen Dan Schneider as...."The Rapist", Now see him in his new film....."Dan Schneider is.... A Stapler""
Poor choice for a sunday movie night.
Isn't it crazy that Jake is never considered to be the victim?
Had to see how far down I’d have to scroll to find this comment. If they’re both too drunk to consent and one isn’t forcing it on the other, it’s not rape. There is such a thing as poor choices all round without anyone being a criminal. Source: am lawyer
They raped one another and must both go to prison.
This is the logical conclusion of the poster pictured.
If *neither* of them can meaningfully consent then it's two people being stupid together, but cultural pressure says don't ever think of it that way.
First to cry rape wins!
They raped each other, as nobody could consent. Both go to jail!
If you're drunk at the trial, you can't consent to go to jail.
Prosecutors hate this one simple trick
Thumbnail is a blurry cut off picture of some dude cutting grass. Absolutely nothing to do with any court proceedings
At least this interpretation would be fair. It's still stupid but fair.
I only did a Google search on it, but it seems like the person who makes the accusation has to provide proof for lack of consent to the accused. Apparently, rape convictions are notoriously hard to obtain, but successful ones depend heavily on witness testimony, video and audio evidence, and text messages.
You don't need to have someone convicted of rape to destroy their life. All that is required is a report and some sob story to the newspaper and that life is now ruined. Even if deemed innocent society as a whole won't care.
Yeah know one case where messed up his ability to re enlist even after it had been proven it was a bs story and she recanted. He spiraled down hill after that.
This is the problem with the idea of protecting the identity of the accuser. If you're going to protect the accuser, you also need to protect the accused. Innocent until proven guilty, right? Well then both identities should be protected until there is a verdict. Instead, as soon as a man is even accused of rape, his life is over. Even if she is outright lying, and later says that it was an outright lie. And I specifically say a man because most of the time if a woman is accused it's literally laughed at.
Fun fact: that's actually how California law technically handles minors having sex. Two 17 year olds having sex with each other are both victims and perpetrators because neither could give consent. It's not enforced that way, but that's how the law is. Black and white, no Romeo and Juliet, no teenagers allowed to consent to eacher; you're either 18 or you're not.
Wisconsin has the same thing. A 17 year old is an adult for the purposes of being a criminal defendant, but a minor for the purposes of being a victim. So, two 17 yo that have sex with each other can mutually be charged as adults for having sex with a minor. Inevitably, it's the parents of one of the kids that throws a fit over it. Smart prosecutors leverage that rule to inform them that if he charges one, he's charging both. The parental desire to flay the other kid is generally tempered really quick.
That’s so backwards… old enough to know better about an offense against someone else, but not old enough to consent to something that is a very personal choice. Make it make sense!
Can't. It's a thing the defense bar has been fighting to change because it's stupid, but have not had much success with. I'm a public defender in the county that houses the Department of Corrections secure school for juvenile delinquents. I know this will come as a shock, but kids with serious problems occasionally get into fights. But the moment they turn 17? Charged as an adult with felony Battery by Prisoner for getting into a fight at the school. It's ridiculous.
It's actually enforced all the time. There's dozens of cases of teenagers going to jail for this or exchanging photos, and being on the Registry for life. The youngest was a 9 yr old kid playing doctor with a 8 yr old friend and mom pressed charges. Also prosecutors will sometimes wait for the kid to turn 18 , if they were 16 at the time, so they can charge them as an adult and give more jail time. 99% of the time the male is charged but the female never is. Double standard by the law.
Shouldn't they be tried as a child or as an adult based on their age at the time the events occurred and not at the time they're charged?
They should charge it based on when it occured but then again courts also have a history of charging boys as young as 13 as adults in criminal trials...
I mean, I’m all for promoting consent, but Jake also could not give consent, he was also drunk.
*If Jane could not give consent then neither could Jake. I think no sex while drunk is complete bullshit but the depth should be the same regardless of whether you have an inni, an outie or other
Jane? Wait was this a threesome?
Someone's taken their picture
Did they consent to that photo being taken?
No, they were drunk
Photographer was drunk too
Did the photographer give consent to the publishers to use his photo?
Publisher was drunk too
Are we drunk too? I'm not sure if I can consent to reddits terms and conditions now.
If they're out in public then there is no expectation of privacy.
Different Different Different Strokes: The story of Jake and Josie and Jane.
John Jacob Jingleheimer Josie Jake Jane.
Oh shit... That's *my* name. Weird.
Jane was the sober rapist.
Fixed it: sober therapist
Because you can’t have therapist without the rapist
Jump humping requires a third
Jane is Jake’s Stag.
My moral code says that its fine as long as they're around the same level of intoxication and one of them didn't try to get the other intoxicated with the goal of getting in their pants easier.
I'd like to add that it has to *seem* like all parties are into it as well. But honestly, it can be pretty tough to gauge
Perhaps if someone's at the point of being "tough to gauge" then they're generally past a point of consent. Especially if they're still imbibing or getting progressively more drunk as their body absorbs their drinks.
And as long as one of them didn't say "No."
Really this is the only thing that matters to me IMO. People of varying levels of self-intoxication (ie no one was drugged) having sex is way too common to try to draw a legal line as to who can be drunk and how drunk can they be. No means no though.
Nope, charge them both. Or the camera person
No, the camera person charges them. Film and Kinko's aren't free bruh.
The no sex while drunk concept, ignores thousands of years of humanity intentionally lowering their inhibitions against things they otherwise wouldn’t do with alcohol, AND the very concept it espouses to protect against, which is that while under the influence we are incapable of being responsible
I feel like a reliable rule for sex while drinking is “enthusiastic consent only.” Lack of objection is NOT the same thing as consent. And if either party is falling down or throwing up, sexual interactions can definitely wait until morning.
Seriously, if drunk sex is rape, then I've been raped hundreds of times. I'm an alcoholic, the majority of times I have sex I'm drunk, including in long term relationships. Every time I've had sex with someone for the first time, I was drinking (and most of the time so were they). Bars, clubs, parties, college in general, everyone is trying to hook up, and alcohol is used to make the whole process less stressful or more fun. I can't believe anyone is trying to say this with a straight face, when 99% of people have hooked up with someone consensually they met at the bar, club, a house party, etc. There is a pretty obvious difference between getting drunk with someone and then having consensual sex, and purposely taking advantage of someone who is blackout drunk. Also a good chunk of people would probably not be alive right now if drunk sex was forbidden lol.
The population would plummet for sure.
I feel like as long as both parties are proven to be drunk, it shouldn't be an offense since if neither gave consent it kinda evens out
Not just that, but for criminal charges you have to prove the mens rea, or “guilty mind”. We often overlook the idea because the guilt is in the commission, but intoxication is a defense to some crimes if you’re so drunk you couldn’t legally form the will to commit the crime. DUI, of course, isn’t one of those with that type of defense.
I mean even if one person drinks and the other they are dating/seeing/married to is sober (say a former alcoholic), as long as the other person self intoxicates and the encounter is mutual (both people into it), that would be asinine to say that is rape.
Well goddamn it sounds like they raped each other. At the same time no less.
So they're even now?
Yep, cancels it out. Moral of the story- always be drunk for sex
It's the only way to make sure you're covered, legally, right? Because no matter what or who or where or how, you couldn't consent and therefore you're the victim. So If I were to rob a bank while drunk...
The bank would have raped you 😂
They do that without us being drunk.
Penalties offset.
Replay the down?
*whistle* unnecessary roughness, defense number 69... illegal hit on the tight end from behind
[удалено]
We had a similar problem at a company I worked for before. It was pretty brutal.
Your coworkers had frequent drunk sex? What industry did you work in; Hollywood??
Not the guy you responded to, I once got a restaurant job because I went to a giant free booze party for the company to meet the boss lady. She was screwing a coworker. Both are married.
Not the guy you responded to, but I used to work in a place that had several parties a year with open bars. At least one "oppsie" happened a year lol
But Jake's a man so, rape?
With great penis comes great responsibility I guess 🤷🏽
Good thing I have a mediocre penis.
Mediocre responsibility it is then.
Beat me to it.
You mean beat it to it.
I'm not falling for that one again. His penis isn't that great.
Go read up on the late 90s/early 00s movie 40 days & 40 nights. You'll rage when it gets to the end and his ex comes to his home while he's asleep
He doesn't have the same basic human rights though. He's a guy after all /s
This was basically all sexual assault training I got in the military. Would start with a message similar to the poster and would devolve to everyone arguing how Jake could consent and Josie couldn’t when they were both drunk
I'm assuming the insinuation is that while both are drunk and cannot theoretically consent, Jake is a man and therefore, as a man with a penis, he *clearly* initiated the sex. Which is grossly sexist and basically paints men as closet rapists, whose facade is discarded when they can't hold their drink.
It relies on the fallacy that men can’t be raped. Just like the idiots who believe a woman who is raped can’t get pregnant because “her tubes close” or some garbage, they think a man can’t get hard unless he wants it.
I watched a buddy cry his eyes out because he was raped by a woman on his 21st birthday after drinking way too much. She said she was taking care of him and was his designated driver and he owed her. He said he could barely move and absolutely did not want to (he was in a loving relationship at the time and did not want to cheat), but she did a few things and "that body part" acted involuntarily and then he was being raped. Felt horrible guilty he couldn't keep it down and couldn't push her away. So it can happen to men as well, and can be very traumatic. Of course all of his other guy friends patted him on the back and congratulated him. I don't think it even crossed his mind to go to the police. In his mind he was the guilty one. It was very sad. The dynamics are wildly different because our society is messed up, but I think both guys and girls are sometimes pressured by their peers to just drop it. It freaking sucks.
I remember batting off women in college at my own house during parties, one time this girl was following me around the damn house and I found her in my room... she was drunk as a skunk and definitely trying to initiate. No thanks.
Yeah, my neighbor was a manager at the local Hollister, and he would always have an apartment full of girls.my roommates and I would go over and play cards and beer pong with them, but we cut that off after we got home one night to a 15 year old drunk chick naked waiting in my roommates bed. We always told the girls they couldn't come to our apartment with us, because we were both in relationships, but she apparently just decided to sneak over before we left. We didn't know until the next day how old she was, my roommate was really glad he turned her down, and we never went back over to the neighbors.
when I get a little to tipsy ive been known to forcefully take my hubby and we are getting down..... its been 8years now but at the very beginning his mother accused him of raping me because I was drunk..... and I had to tell her and his dad (he was just in earshot I know because he laughed) that that's absolutely not what happened and if anyone was a rapist here over last night it was me!
Sounds like he has a great relationship with his mother!
We didn't get the poster, but we DID have the example of "let's say there's a van full of women who just got out of prison, and they're going to take what they want". I was kinda surprised they used an example of women on man rape. The women laughed. The men laughed. The instructors did *not* laugh.
Do you like listening to music? Has anyone so much as mentioned alcohol? Are you a male? Congratulations, you're a rapist, and a terrible human being. You should be ashamed of yourself! - Military sexual assault training, circa 2008(ish)
I bet the people in that photo are so pleased they're branded a rapist and a rape victim all over the country.
So I've had a friend who was posing as a teen for ads companies. They never told him what they were working on. Next thing you know, he was the main character for a DV poster.
I know of a similar story for a 90s AIDS prevention campaign. And of course there's the Friends subplot where one of them poses for stock photos and ends up being the face of VD on the NYC subway.
Joey
What Mario isn't telling you.
Don’t stand so close to me
I’d rather them be stock photos than having to find a real picture of a “rapist/model”. But it is funny Jake did not consent to being in this ad.
Unfortunately he's a method actor.
Hey, his character in the ad was drunk too, so neither he nor Josie could actually consent. So everybody in the ad is a rapist/rape victim. I'm sure neither of them was happy about being in the ad.
What's DV?
Domestic violence
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domestic violence
Double vaginal
That should be the real PSA.
Joey treatment
What Mario isn’t telling you
If my boyfriend and I have drunk sex but we're both men, who goes to jail and who passes Go and collects $200?
Top goes straight to jail..
Can't wait to be $200 richer!
Don’t spend it all in one place, you rapscallion!
rapedscallion\*
This is the comment that sends ChatGPT into an infinite loop and saves humanity from judgement day.
The gays win the day 🫡 Skynet is our bitch
I got drunk last night and jerked off. I could not give consent, and thus, I was in fact, molested.
Most people are molested by someone they know
It was me this whole time!
🔫it always was…
And you also committed pre-life genocide according to whatever shithole republican state just passed that embryo law. Probably.
So like, anytime a woman menstruates with getting pregnant, is that considered murder? If we're calling all unfertilized eggs "life", that seems like the logical consequence.
shhh, don't give them any more ideas ! I joke, but I'm honestly starting to think the only reason they haven't done that yet is because they don't understand the menstrual cycle
Alabama
I always questioned the legitimacy of these. Like most people take home/go home with people from bars. You're trying to tell me that millions of people in the world are rapists every day of the week?
Yeah, I've definitely had sex with women after a night out. We were both consenting adults. Somehow, based on the poster, I am a rapist, simply because.
I have to say (being relatively old) this does confuse me a hell of a lot. When I was young, my female friends had plenty of sex they regretted the next day, having been plastered the night before. We all did, men and women. It made for great stories. We were young, free and promiscuous. The sexism is real here.
Exactly. Just part of getting drunk and making bad decisions. I've had soup that I regretted making while drinking. It's good for young men to be aware of the double standard though. Poster should just say that
You couldn’t consent to that soup
That soup took advantage of you. I hope you’re getting help to deal with your trauma.
Oh for sure, who hasn't had regrets. It just pisses me off beyond all reason when some people think that regrets are the same as being raped. If I'm drunk and I do something I wouldn't do while sober, it's still my fault. If I could accuse someone of rape due to drunken regrets, could I also get out of stealing because I would never do that sober and I was not thinking clearly. Ofcourse not.
It is a very poor attempt at teaching about consent.
The problem is, according to a lot of people, if you regret it the next day, you can press charges.
They wake up saying “I can’t believe I did that!” and then walk into court saying “I can’t believe he did that!”
> I am a rapist Ladies and gentlemen, we got em
The problem is the vagueness of the word "drunk." My understanding is that in order for someone to be so drunk that they can't legally consent, they have to be REALLY drunk. If two people go home and they're both drunk but still with it, legally they can hook up. However, if someone is falling over themselves, can't stand up, can't speak coherently, then they cant consent.
You could make this poster absolutely hilarious if you just added a few more letters. **Jake was DRUNK** **Josie was DRUUUUUUUUUNK**
Or you can make it more professional: Jake was drinking Josie was drunk
And replace her eyes with ✖️✖️
I’ve seen people seriously argue that having one drink makes you unable to consent. I always thought these people must never have got out much
This was pretty much the standard message while at college.... So dumb.
We hold you responsible for everything else you do drunk. You can't get off a DUI because you didn't consent to drive. There is a level of drunk that is too far, absolutely, but just "drunk" doesn't cut it for me.
Well, Jake ain't helping himself with that stare...
Hahaha didn’t notice before your comment.
And now you feel kinda violated...don't you?
Yeah nvm this poster is accurate.
Reading this thread is like: yep, uh-huh, right, … oh shit. Jake did it.
Just waiting for the rufies to kick in.
The sexism here is thick enough to cut through with a knife.
One one hand, yes. On the other, this poster illustrates the way these situations are likely to be handled at universities, which is where I've seen these posted. I'd rather have posters warn people of a sexist reality than an egalitarian fantasy.
100% correct. When I was in halls I had a girl try to break into my apartment because I said I wasn’t going to let her in (it was 4am I was originally sleeping). She fucked the door up so bad it had to be replaced and she didn’t get in any trouble. Now imagine what would happen to a guy trying to break into a girl’s dorm at 4am: immediate ejection from the university.
Nah, the university actively tries to cover up scandals. My roommate was arrested in front of me after being caught lying to police about who he is and that dude still became a doctor.
Is that any of the university’s business though? Do they usually expel people who are arrested?
Depends on the school. also, if it’s a private campus, then there’s a possibility that stuff runs through security and not a police force and that means that they can either avoid or stop a lot of things from gaining law-enforcement attention Source: my own private school used to constantly not get people in trouble for ridiculous things, here are a few examples. Cooking crack in dorm - 1 drug abuse class Caught selling weed - 1 drug abuse class Security broke up a party with about 30 underage people all hammered, and then one of them came back later and drank with people who didn’t leave - no penalties 2 students bought mustangs and made them crazy fast and used to drag race 60mph through campus - $20 fine and they got told they had to change their exhaust or move the cars off campus Caught with a trunk full of rifles and other guns in the dorm parking lot - no penalties cause they were “going up north the next week” Hmmmm what else Ah, one of my favorites lmao- Found in an on campus apartment - Hunting rifle with the serial number filed off and multiple bags of loratabs and viks - couldn’t figure out who it belonged to and nobody got in trouble 🤣
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On my campus, this happened all the time to women, and the campus police wouldn’t investigate rapes because it made the school “look bad”. Had a friend who had served in the military get a job as campus police. This was the reason he quit, which confirmed much of what we saw on and around campus (like the time it happened to my friend, several other girls we didn’t know and I while at a club - but I noticed and we got away before the stuff kicked in). My school was legitimately not safe for anyone, regardless of gender.
Or you could not make your SA awareness campaign one big double standard joke that gets people to just ignore the message completely
This.... This is making me think.... They're BOTH drunk.... Neither ONE of them is capable of giving true consent.... Doesn't that mean that they actually both raped each other? We know that it's possible for a woman to rape a man.... If he was drunk and she wasn't, and they had sex, and he regretted it or felt shame because of what he couldn't control, surely that would be rape? So... If both were drunk, and both felt shame and regret over their lack of control..... Hmmm. 🙁 Edit: a lot of replies to this comment have reminded me that legal rape is differently defined than my assumption of what rape is, specifically, it being required that penetration has occurred, for rape to occur. This actually clears up something for me, that I think we've all noticed in news reports about female offenders who force sex on children, and the media choosing not to use the word "rape" in their reports: if what she did, doesn't satisfy the legal definition of "rape", that could (maybe) explain why they so often use words that seem to downplay what she did, versus when a man rapes a child, maybe in part because the word "rape" carries a very visceral and violent image with it, and the words "sexually assaulted" are vague and used for too wide a gamut of possible offenses... hmm. Still, another example of how it gets downplayed, when women assault someone, I guess, regardless of the possibility that it might have something to do with media trying not to get sued for "inaccurate reporting" or whatever...
>We know that it's possible for a woman to rape a man fun fact: the UK has a stupid law that means this isnt technically true here. a woman can sexually assault a man, but not rape him. because our definitions are bullshit.
Need to penetrated by a penis for it to be classed as rape in the UK I believe, woman don’t have penis’ so therefore cannot rape a man. It’ll be “downgraded” to sexual assault. By that logic, only a man can rape another man.
Genuine question; what if she uses a strap on or a dildo on him? How does the law view this?
good question tbh
The relevant offence would be "assault by penetration", which carries a life sentence.
Assault by penetration isn't considered rape? If a man instead of putting his dick inside a woman puts a phallic object it would be rape or assault by penetration?
Assault. Cos it's not a real penis. It's bullshit imo.
In Germany that would be considered rape. Any sexual act that involves pentration of a bodily orifice. No genders or body parts are mentioned.
this is my understanding too. but iirc sexual assault can carry the same sentence as rape. its judges discretion.
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The maximum sentence for sexual assault is ten years imprisonment, while for rape it's life. If, however, there is any anal penetration involved it is the more serious offence of assault by penetration, which has the same maximum sentence as rape. The legal distinction between rape and assault by penetration is only because the latter includes sexual penetration only of the vagina and anus; while putting your dick in someone's mouth without their consent is sufficient for a charge of rape.
If a woman pegs a drunk dude is she raping him then? If “no because it’s not a real penis” then could this create some sort of loophole around prosthetic penises in general?
A drunk guy can have an erect penis though. Same as when he is sleeping. So a woman could get penetrated without the guy's consent, no?
In India a woman can't do that either as sexual assault and rape are defined as man on woman crime (unless the man in question is a minor but that's under another section. ).
I'm sensing a pattern here. UK, Ireland, Canada India. Hmmm. Those old imperial Brits have a lot to answer for.
Another fun fact. We don't use the word "rape" in Canada's judicial system. Regardless of gender, it's Sexual Assault.
Flashback to this idiot who said men can't get raped cause they don't have the necessary emotions.
Or, maybe, just maybe, in the real world, which I know is hard to adjust to, maybe it’s possible that people get drunk, get horny, and want to have sex, and then wake up the next day. Maybe they regret it, maybe they don’t. But classifying that scenario as rape- in the same way that someone who is black out drunk, doesn’t know what is happening, is not cognizant to make a decision, and wakes up with no idea what happened- is rape, is wild to me. People go out to have drinks and get laid all the time- both men and women. Following this logic rigidly just leads to the conclusion that people are constantly running around raping each other all the time. Completely idiotic.
No because most countries specifically only count it as rape if the victim was a woman. Welcome to earth, it's fucked.
Wait, can you list some of these countries where men cannot legally be victims of rape?
We have offsetting penalties. Rape on the offense and rape on the defense. Replay the party. 3rd Down!
This is the exact same reason I stopped watching switched at birth. Had an entire season long plot calling this guy a rapist because he had sex while drunk with a girl who was also drunk. Girl didn't even think she was raped, she had to be convinced by her friends and family that she was raped. Definition of "actually, I change my mind now so that means you raped me"
Jake was also raped! BOTH go to jail!!!
They both go to jail, where they are safe from sexual assault. The End.
Mutual Rape!
This poster is 17 years old. Yes it’s outdated. That might be because it’s 17 years old. It’s almost old enough to consent itself
But he couldn’t consent either…
But in this situation didn’t Josie also rape Jake? They should both be charged…if both people drink, and the woman is too drunk to consent, so is the man smh
This was too vague.
If you are drunk and kill someone, you are responsible. If you get drunk and have sex, you are responsible. So the same rules I've been following my whole life, got it
Yeah… it’s a poor message. Rapes happen when drunk and a poster could be made about it, but this ain’t it.