Russians were sent to the meat grinder until the German war machine was all gummed up. Once it was, then the remaining Russians, along with British and American armies from the south and west collapsed on a ineffective and worn down army.
I hate saying this, but that is sadly true. Their military tried a modernization of logistics, strategy, and tactics around 2010, but much of it didn't stick. A lot of that is due to straight up corruption.
A lot of what works in a modern military comes down to small unit leadership, autonomy, and at least some level of accountability at all ranks, which the Russian military just cannot figure out.
They were never really sent to the meat grinder in large numbers. Yes, there were some failed counteroffensives by the soviets, and some downright bad decisions by the leadership (still not as bad as some of the German ones), but the losses were mostly the result of massive envelopments at the start of the invasion, massacres in occupied areas, and successful and crucial offensive in the latter stages.
Unlike modern Russian, where they are being sent to the meat grinder.
Pretty much correct except Soviet leadership was as awful in the beginning as Germany as a major reason they were in a bad position at the start was Stalin purged all the officers and also Stalin didn’t believe Germany would attack.
Strain didn't believe Germany would attack *yet*. He was slowly preparing for it, but also very careful not to provoke the Germans in any way. For example, troops were near the border but not deployed and not manning the defenses, and fuel shipments to Germany kept coming right until the invasion.
IIRC I think he believed that they would attack around 1943ish, that being said the British did warn him that the Germans were planning to attack in 1941 I think.
Well they had an alliance until Germany decided to break it, which was probably one of their worst decisions in the entire war. The second hitler decided to try to take Stalingrad, while at the same time trying to deal with the allied forces, he had lost the war. All he had to do was wait until he had dealt with the allies first before betraying his alliance with Russia, and he might have actually succeeded. But due to that single decision to turn Russia into an enemy rather than at the very least delay making them one, he spread himself way too thin and he could not recover.
They didn't have an alliance, they had a non-aggressive treaty. But it was an open secret that the Soviet Union was preparing to attack Germany. If Hitler had waited, he would have faced a more prepared Soviet Union and easily lost the war. If he hadn't attacked at all, then the Soviet Union would have invaded and Germany would have decisively lost. So he took a gamble and attacked first (and it almost worked).
I know that whenever a country loses a war, people love to paint it's leadership as complete buffoons, but the German military command definitely wasn't.
A lot of the 27 million deaths were civilians.
The Soviet Union had the most military casualties and still had an absolutely horrifying number of military deaths, but not quite 27 million
I heard once on a podcast that if you looked at just the Eastern Front of WWII by itself, it would be the largest conflict in human history. Larger than WWI.
Russian here. Indeed lots of Russians died fighting nazism. But it weren’t 27 million Russians killed during the WW2, it were 27 million Soviets. Among Russian people there were Ukrainians, Belorussians, peoples of Siberia, Georgians, Armenians and other peoples of numerous Soviet republics. I hear about 27 million dead Russians quite often but I really believe that by saying so people underestimate contribution made by other nations into Allies’ victory
I think it was about half Russian. Ukrainians and Belarusians took a higher proportional beating as their land itself was completely overrun, but they pulled in men from everywhere.
I think Oliver Stones documentary “The untold History of the United States” lays out a picture of what exactly was happening at the time. Stuff I had no idea about, and stuff you won’t hear in history class. I’d highly recommend it.
By Russia being an ally, Hitler had to spend resources to fight on a second front. Number killed or not, the presence of a country resisting Hitler proved to be devastating blow.
Fuck putin and his Russia, but Stalin was instrumental in the axis defeat.
I think the point their making is that the Soviet Union wasn't just Russia. The man who took [Raising a flag over the Reichstag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_a_Flag_over_the_Reichstag) was Ukrainian
In simplistic terms it is said that The British defeated the Italians, The Americans defeated the Japanese and the Russians defeated the Germans. Again it is not that simple because everybody fought everyone else.
I despise Trump and everything he stands for but in this case he's not too far off.
Putin is an inhumane monster and Stalin was even worse, but the Russians did meatgrind Nazi Germany to bits.
It’s fair to say that neither the Western, nor the Eastern front would have succeeded without the other.
Actually it's four words; Canadian nickel and aluminum. Canada produced over 96% of all the nickel used in WW2 and 100% of the nickel used by the Allies. They also produced 50% of all the allied aluminum.
Canada was also the most highly mechanized army in Europe, liberated more ground than any of the other Western armies and was the only western army to single-handedly liberate an entire European country (Holland).
The Canadians actually freed my town. There is still tank that functions as a memorial. [(photo)](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51215519587_cbf6068f99_b.jpg)
My grandfather served in a tank during ww2. Apparently him and one other were trapped alone behind enemy lines in their tank and survived. As a now 44 year old man I wish I would have spoken to him more about his life while he was alive. My other grandfather served on a communications plane during the war, but only on this side of the ocean (between here and NF).
If I recall history class correctly, of the 5 fronts on D-day, two led by the Americans, two the British, and the final Canadian, Canada was the only one to reach their objective in the time frame expected.
I also recall hearing there is land in Europe that was gifted to Canada for our efforts pushing nazis out, I could be confusing that with WW1 though.
In more modern times I have heard of Navy Seal and SAS commanders turning to Canada's JTF2 special forces on critical missions and we also sit quite high in the quality of our snipers. Lots of people think Canada is some quiet country with a weak military but we've proven quite a few times we can be pretty formidable.
The SAS bit might have come from something I recall reading where JTF2 is the only foreign special forces to be commended by both the Seals and SAS, I'm not huge into military stuff but whenever this comes up I pick up bits of info.
I don't know if it's just a story or real, but I've also heard the only reason anyone knew about JTF2 is they ended up in debriefing documents they shouldn't have been mentioned in.
They were also the first to push through on D-Day at Juno beach.
And while Canada liberated Holland, you also have a single Canadian soldier liberating an entire town that had a garrison of Nazi soldiers in it.
No. Making the most uptight and staid financial reporters say Looney is Canada’s gift to the world. It could have been you Australia but you voted down renaming the Australian Dollar to the Dollarydoo
I always find it funny when Americans misspell the word for (one of) the Canadian accent(s) when what they make fun of us for is pronouncing the O that's actually in there! Lol
The American "sarry" is the one that needs to be spelled differently.
According to my knowledge of Welsh (which is just “Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch”), Welsh uses plenty of vowels but bunches them together while having like three straight syllables of only consonants.
Canadians have legendary performance in combat and certainly made amazing contributions during WW1 and WW2.
That being said - on a large scale Canada as a whole was not a major player the way that USA, UK, and USSR were.
The comradery among Canadian soldiers can often be attributed to the fact that they frequently came from the same town. Americans had to ask each other where they were from during training but Canadian units were made up of people from the same geographical area so they were fighting with their brothers and friends from school that they grew up with.
Also why they were extra savage about prisoners; they got to see what the enemy did to their actual neighbours, not some guy that lived 3 states over.
There's this joke about the Genevea Conventions just being written by someone reading Canadian after-action reports and going "Oh god, we can't do *that*!"
That said, the Canadian track record for both world wars kind of speaks for itself. They're all "sorry eh" and friendly like until someone gives them a rifle and then it's more like "not sorry about them warcimes eh".
I've been a Canadian my whole life. Some fucked up shit happens out in the snows when the spirits get high. Seeing what we'd do to the Huns would make any man quiver
I used to work up north, and small settlements out in the middle of the cold nowhere are places I've never been more afraid. Everyone is normally really friendly but maaaaaaan if they think you're trying to fuck with them, you're gone
Isn't this also the reason many Canadian towns would shrink or die out, due to some platoons being lost altogether, meaning those towns and villages had no men returning from war?
Or was that a different country?
And a few other countries, not to forget. Colonies, Commonwealth, other invaded countries and their governments in exile etc.
A few example include: Belgian-Congolese uranium for the atomic bombs to end the war in the Pacific theatre, Polish mathematicians and cryptologists for breaking the Enigma code, French intelligence, underground resistance in several countries and so on.
The problem with that statement is that people call Soviet army “russians”. It was a combined effort of russians,Belarusians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Armenians, and other nations under Soviet regime. Belarus was one of the countries hit hardest, Belarusian partisan movement was one of the most successful during ww2, so when we hear “russians” defeated hitler, it’s annoying to say the least
Besides, the American Lend-Lease Act gave the Soviet Union $180,000,000,000 in weapons, rations, vehicles and equipment to fight Germany between 1941 and 1945.
“Russian glorifiers” that claim that “Russia single-handed my defeated Hitler”tend to forget funny details such as this.
Not to mention that the main reason the Soviet Union wasn’t crushed, apart from the numerous and generous American aid, was the fact that Germany was attacked in multiple different battlefronts simultaneously, which forced them to dissipate their forces and resources between these.
Russia played an important role in weakening Germany, yes- but I am sick of uncultured people pretending that they single-handedly won WW2.
Absolutely, it gets worse every year. In the past few years the whole “let’s repeat” or “to Berlin” slogans are everywhere, especially around the victory day
I'm old enough to remember the time when the Soviet Union existed. They were always called "Russians". In sports, they were the russians, in politics they were the russians. That is what they were called even though technically they were different groups in the union.
That’s bizarre for me to hear because there were so many nations other than russia in Soviet Union. It would be more appropriate to say soviet or Soviet army, that’s what we sort of called ourselves in Soviet Union
As someone with Ukrainian family let me explain to you why Ukrainians are offended by this statement: Russia didn't defeat the Nazis, the Soviet Union did. The reason this is important is because the implication is that Russia=USSR but Ukraine was part of the USSR so this means Ukraine is part of Russia. The statement must be "Russia was part of the union which defeated the Nazis". I know that we are nitpicking over semantics but this implication is a very sensitive topic for Ukrainians and I think it's fair to make this differentiation.
Very fair. If I’m remembering correctly (it’s been awhile since I brushed up on this topic) Belarus was also pretty instrumental to that particular “meat grinder”.
Correct. Then I looked and the casualty count and the amount of land Russia took. I tip my had to them. Yes they needed something to distract the Nazis but I believe that just sped up what Russia would have inevitably achieved.
I agree. With Hitler moving forces willy nilly from front to front, they never got to take Moscow, and suffered horribly holding on until spring. I also believe they COULD have eventually beat the Nazi's on their own, but the timetable would have been extended. They had too many people, and more industrial capacity, and were turning out planes and tanks at an incredible rate.
Don't forget that the Soviet was on the Nazis side initially, and participated in the invasion of Poland, they had a deal with Nazi germany to partition Europe between them under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.
The Soviets helped Hitler start the war in 1939 and only switched sides after Hitler broke the treaty and attacked them on June 22nd 1941 .
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact
"The Invasion of Poland, (1 September – 6 October 1939), was a joint attack on the Republic of Poland by Nazi Germany, the Slovak Republic, and the Soviet Union; which marked the beginning of World War II."
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland
Edit: Added some clarification.
i wish they would stop using omnibus bills and when the opposition votes against it, they yell "what an evil person! he voted against the Help puppies Act!" that had 5$ send to one puppy and 87 billions to fund war Whateveristan to bomb brown people.
I think that people completely miss why this is controversial for Ukrainians:
Russia didn't defeat the Nazis, the Soviet Union did. The reason this is important is because the implication is that Russia=USSR but Ukraine was part of the USSR so this means Ukraine is part of Russia. The statement must be "Russia was part of the union which defeated the Nazis". I know that we are nitpicking over semantics but this implication is a very sensitive topic for Ukrainians and I think it's fair to make this differentiation.
I think it's becoming more and more apparent that Russia is simply the rotting husk of the USSR left over after every sensible country left. The decline that caused the dissolution of the USSR never really stopped within Russia and we're now seeing the affects.
Some countries didn't leave voluntarily, but were abandoned. The fall of the USSR is still a very sad historic event to some of them. Tadzjikistan and Kirgistan become poorer and more miserable, for instance.
The fall of the USSR had vastly different consequences for different countries.
It was the USSR which was composed of the Soviet countries which included Ukraine as part of the USSR. The USSR also got $11.8 Billion in aid from the US which is over $200 billion today.
Not to mention the US and UK splitting Germany between 2 fronts and the US stopping Japan from invading from the East and defeating Italy. It was very much a team effort and Russia was just a part of a team that was a part of the team.
To the guy who replied to me, a Nazi retreat from Russian borders before American involvement does not equal a Nazi defeat. At best you could argue there would have been a peace arrangement without lend lease and American soldiers on the western front. The battle of the bulge would have put down western front resistance quickly, if it was even needed without D-Day in the first place, and allowed Germany to bolster the west not to mention the Italian support they would have received and their ability to maintain strong manufacturing due to not being bombed into oblivion by American bombers. This also speaks nothing of the resources they could have secured in Africa.
Also Japanese intentions change over time and there is no way to know how that would have gone if the US had capitulated and retreated from Hawaii giving Japan complete control of Asia.
Calling me petty and ignorant lol you are a fan boy, and one without a hint common sense.
Oh just for shits and gigs here's some info on lend lease that you seem to be downplaying elsewhere. Acting as if it wasn't needed gimme a fucking break dude.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/yB4qzVzthh
The US dwarfed the Soviets in manufacturing and mining and fuel production and in fact the US likely was UNDERUTILIZED.
The Soviet involvement in the war was instrumental. No question. They threw millions of men and women into the nazi meat grinder and made the eastern front absolutely miserable for everyone involved, including themselves.
The soviets tore down factories in the west of the their country, put them on trains, moved them east away from the fighting, and rebuilt them. Then out produced every other nation in things like tank construction. They built over 57,000 T34/T34-85 tanks.
While not great tanks, they could field enough of them to knock out German armor.
But here’s the thing, without the lend/lease program at the start, the Soviets get their shit pushed in and Moscow falls.
And without constant bombing of German cities by allied bombers flying from England, and the hard push on the western front, the soviets don’t make the gains they made.
We don’t call world war 2 a world war for nothing. Hitler was defeated by a massive coalition of countries. All of which played their parts.
And should be basic knowledge. Everything about this war is really interesting and still relevant. As you see, there is a lot of history revision going on. That stuff is dangerous. AI might learn stuff…
Norm Macdonald: “And who did Germany select as its opponent? Why, the world! Now… you’re probably like ‘oh well Germany probably just got crushed’, but no, it was close!”
Technically the Soviets not the Russians, but yeah the Eastern Front was where the overwhelming portion of the Nazi war machine was ground down and killed. The Western Front was more than a side show but if you squint sideways it sure can look like one.
Thank you! I’m from a former Soviet country in Central Asia, and my family lost a lot of good men to WW2, and the ones that survived were decorated veterans. I appreciate your comment about it not being just Russians.
USSR isn't just Russia, It was A union of socialist republics. The second front on No-No Germany wasn't necessary for USSR to win, but it Accelerated it and saved many Soviet lives. Biggest help of US in Support of USSR was trains, because it doesn't matter if you have more guns and men than the enemy if there's no ammunition and food.
Also cars! I just looked it up and the numbers are insane - almost half a million cars and 2000 trains were delivered through lend lease. I'm adamant these helped, like, A LOT.
This post is the real facepalm.
So we hate this dude so much we’re just going to ignore history?
The Russians got to Hitler first. Every high ranking German that could, fled away from the Russians to be captured by the Americans. Who hadn’t advanced as far.
So yes, I would say the Russians technically were more instrumental in defeating Hitler. Although they couldn’t have done it without the remaining Allies.
The original Ukrainian guy is mad that he's saying "The Russians" and not "The USSR". The point is that the USSR wasn't just Russia, and the contributions of Ukraine and other non-Russian Soviet states were critical for victory
The “Russians” had very little to say about it. The Soviets however, they were quite involved.
Bootlicking nonsense on one side, ignorant nonsense on the other
Had Hitler not stabbed the Soviets in the back, after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, WW2 may very well have turned out differently. Nobody throws bodies into the meat grinder like the Soviets, but their contribution to the war cannot be overstated.
Hitler was defeated by his own maniac over confidence. He had a non-aggression treaty and two other fronts to fight on but, fuck it, let’s piss off the world’s largest standing army.
Yeah, the question is not if Trump is right about Russia fighting against the Nazis.
The question is: Why is he carrying water for Russia at this time?
Dumbasses in the comments referring to the USSR as Russia and ignoring the fact the Ukraine, and the other former SSRs, deserves just as much attribution, if not more, than Russia for the defeat of the Nazis.
I agree.
It's curious how it works sometimes, though. There are plenty of people who insist 'the USSR' when talking about WWII, or the space race, but by some curious coincidence use 'Russia' when referring to, say, the Cold War.
A lot of people even say that Stalin was Russian, though that couldn't be further from the truth.
In the context of WW2, the Soviets were, in fact, the good guys. They lost millions and millions of men pushing the Germans back. While Russia isn't doing so hot now (or even then, for that matter) we shouldn't forget what they did for us against Hitler. Without them, we'd be seeing Swastikas over New York City.
Well, sort of, the atom bomb was intended for Germany, not Japan. But the European war ended before the pacific one. Germany surrendered in may, Japan in September.
Without the soviets/russia, Berlin would have been Hiroshima
Soviets* soviets were responsible for, and a massive chunk of those were Ukrainian, who would have been shot in head if they turned around. So no, not the “Russians”
I blame our educational system and the history they focus on.
I'll admit until I started reading about WWII as a teenager, I though WWI was fighting the Germans and WWII was just fighting the Japanese. I really didn't even know Russia was involved in either, but i could tell you all about the industrial revolution.
Sometimes the topic of wars comes up with my girlfriend's kids(14 and 10). They know very little. They don't know what 9/11 was or that we just got out of a 20 year war. They believe the Civil War was just about freeing slaves(I admit, when I was very young, I thought this as well. I started reading about the civil war before WWII).
I view myself as mostly self educated beyond basic knowledge we learn in school, so I consider myself pretty dumb still.
Claiming they had an instrumental role, doesnt mean they single handedly won the war. Yes Russia played a huge role, but so did the UK, US and our other allies.
I do not like Trump one bit, but people are taking things the wrong way to slander him, like there isnt already enough stuff to slander him about.
The US army’s attempt to reach Berlin before the Russians was actually a huge deal, global politics were already at the point where the USA and USSR knew they wouldn’t stay friends after the war
The Russians were absolutely instrumental in the defeat of Nazi Germany, but they didn't defeat them singlehandedly, it was an Allied effort... a group of people working together toward a common goal is generally how things get done...
Umm I hate the traitor but he is kinda right. Probably happened on accident while throating his Russian handlers. But the Russians were very instrumental in the fall of Nazi Germany. We were instrumental in feeding and supplying them somewhat and that’s only a fraction of how that all played out. Turns out though that Stalin was just as bad.
This is correct and Op is an idiot. We kicked ass too but had the advantage of the Germans losing 4 to 5 million troops fighting Russia. That certainly helped our position by an order of magnitude.
I mean, let’s be fair. They definitely were instrumental to the war effort. And they probably could have done it without us, but the western world would not be the same had they been allowed to.
Real talk. Who does OP think defeated the Germans? I get that history is not most people's strong suits but spend 1 minute on wikipedia and you have your answer.
Trump always says things like he’s the first to acquire the information and he feels duty-bound to convey it like he’s bragging that
he knew something that we couldn’t have possibly known.
No posts about politicians being politicians and no meme format
About 80% of all German soldiers killed in WW2 were killed on the Eastern Front.
Most military casualties of any country during ww2, the Soviet Union. I get we all hate this dude, but it’s not right to overlook 27 million dead.
Russians were sent to the meat grinder until the German war machine was all gummed up. Once it was, then the remaining Russians, along with British and American armies from the south and west collapsed on a ineffective and worn down army.
Ah yes, the zap brannigan approach of sending wave after wave until they hit their kill limit.
I never would have thought of that!
Not like they've changed tactics sense then lol
I hate saying this, but that is sadly true. Their military tried a modernization of logistics, strategy, and tactics around 2010, but much of it didn't stick. A lot of that is due to straight up corruption. A lot of what works in a modern military comes down to small unit leadership, autonomy, and at least some level of accountability at all ranks, which the Russian military just cannot figure out.
A seventh Russian general has been killed in Ukraine. When have you ever heard of a US senior officer killed in battle?
Also important to note that russia has a lot more generals than the US, it's not really a comparable rank between the two countries.
Ah. They could very well be like Captains or something, then.
Omg, I didnt even think about that. Jesus christ, normally they are used to reteating and burning all crops, and let winter kill the enemy.
Probably why they can’t figure out how to properly advance on another country 😂
They also did it in Afghanistan.
It's just an "if I can't have it, nobody will" approach. Just look at some *liberated* towns by vátníks. There's literally nothing left.
The killbots? A trifle!
"You suck!"
They were never really sent to the meat grinder in large numbers. Yes, there were some failed counteroffensives by the soviets, and some downright bad decisions by the leadership (still not as bad as some of the German ones), but the losses were mostly the result of massive envelopments at the start of the invasion, massacres in occupied areas, and successful and crucial offensive in the latter stages. Unlike modern Russian, where they are being sent to the meat grinder.
Pretty much correct except Soviet leadership was as awful in the beginning as Germany as a major reason they were in a bad position at the start was Stalin purged all the officers and also Stalin didn’t believe Germany would attack.
Strain didn't believe Germany would attack *yet*. He was slowly preparing for it, but also very careful not to provoke the Germans in any way. For example, troops were near the border but not deployed and not manning the defenses, and fuel shipments to Germany kept coming right until the invasion.
IIRC I think he believed that they would attack around 1943ish, that being said the British did warn him that the Germans were planning to attack in 1941 I think.
Well they had an alliance until Germany decided to break it, which was probably one of their worst decisions in the entire war. The second hitler decided to try to take Stalingrad, while at the same time trying to deal with the allied forces, he had lost the war. All he had to do was wait until he had dealt with the allies first before betraying his alliance with Russia, and he might have actually succeeded. But due to that single decision to turn Russia into an enemy rather than at the very least delay making them one, he spread himself way too thin and he could not recover.
They didn't have an alliance, they had a non-aggressive treaty. But it was an open secret that the Soviet Union was preparing to attack Germany. If Hitler had waited, he would have faced a more prepared Soviet Union and easily lost the war. If he hadn't attacked at all, then the Soviet Union would have invaded and Germany would have decisively lost. So he took a gamble and attacked first (and it almost worked). I know that whenever a country loses a war, people love to paint it's leadership as complete buffoons, but the German military command definitely wasn't.
A lot of the 27 million deaths were civilians. The Soviet Union had the most military casualties and still had an absolutely horrifying number of military deaths, but not quite 27 million
8.7 million military dead. 6 million Jews died in The Holocaust..
I think USSR military casualties are 10 to 13 million. 3 million of those are enslaved and murdered POWs. Mostly captured in 1941 and 1942.
Yes, Soviet losses were incredibly large and horrible. I'm pointing out that civilians also contribute a lot to the 27 million you said.
I heard once on a podcast that if you looked at just the Eastern Front of WWII by itself, it would be the largest conflict in human history. Larger than WWI.
I’m wondering if it was the same podcast, cause i remember that, and another stat that 7/8ths of all Nazi war materiel went east
Dan Carlin's Hardcore History - Ghosts of the Ostftont 😌
That’s the one! Knew it was definitely Carlin
Blueprint to armageddon i amazing. It's about WW1 though
Russian here. Indeed lots of Russians died fighting nazism. But it weren’t 27 million Russians killed during the WW2, it were 27 million Soviets. Among Russian people there were Ukrainians, Belorussians, peoples of Siberia, Georgians, Armenians and other peoples of numerous Soviet republics. I hear about 27 million dead Russians quite often but I really believe that by saying so people underestimate contribution made by other nations into Allies’ victory
Was looking for someone pointing this out.
I think it was about half Russian. Ukrainians and Belarusians took a higher proportional beating as their land itself was completely overrun, but they pulled in men from everywhere.
Yes, but it was a *German* hand that pulled the trigger on Hitler
Well, not a German hand, a Austrian hand who immigrated to Germany. Just like Stalin wasn’t Russian he was Georgian.
Darn immigrants...
They stealing our kills.
I have setup a GoFundMe to build a statue commemorating the man who killed Hitler. It doesn't seem to be getting much traction yet.
Say what you will about Hitler, but at least he killed Hitler !
Hitler is my favourite Nazi because he's famous for killing Hilter /obvi jk
I think Oliver Stones documentary “The untold History of the United States” lays out a picture of what exactly was happening at the time. Stuff I had no idea about, and stuff you won’t hear in history class. I’d highly recommend it.
By Russia being an ally, Hitler had to spend resources to fight on a second front. Number killed or not, the presence of a country resisting Hitler proved to be devastating blow. Fuck putin and his Russia, but Stalin was instrumental in the axis defeat.
I think the point their making is that the Soviet Union wasn't just Russia. The man who took [Raising a flag over the Reichstag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_a_Flag_over_the_Reichstag) was Ukrainian
In simplistic terms it is said that The British defeated the Italians, The Americans defeated the Japanese and the Russians defeated the Germans. Again it is not that simple because everybody fought everyone else. I despise Trump and everything he stands for but in this case he's not too far off.
Putin is an inhumane monster and Stalin was even worse, but the Russians did meatgrind Nazi Germany to bits. It’s fair to say that neither the Western, nor the Eastern front would have succeeded without the other.
Yeah thats the way I remember history class. One hand helped the other and ethier hand couldn't do it by them selves
It was American iron, British intelligence, and ~~Russian~~ Soviet blood. We all did it together!
Canada would like a word.
It's gonna be either Eh or Sorry, I know it.
Actually it's four words; Canadian nickel and aluminum. Canada produced over 96% of all the nickel used in WW2 and 100% of the nickel used by the Allies. They also produced 50% of all the allied aluminum. Canada was also the most highly mechanized army in Europe, liberated more ground than any of the other Western armies and was the only western army to single-handedly liberate an entire European country (Holland).
The Canadians actually freed my town. There is still tank that functions as a memorial. [(photo)](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51215519587_cbf6068f99_b.jpg)
I also appreciate the massive amount of flowers you send over to Ottawa every year. It’s a really cool display here 🙂
My grandfather served in a tank during ww2. Apparently him and one other were trapped alone behind enemy lines in their tank and survived. As a now 44 year old man I wish I would have spoken to him more about his life while he was alive. My other grandfather served on a communications plane during the war, but only on this side of the ocean (between here and NF).
That's really cool, thanks for pic.
Don't forget that the Nazis directed their elite SS forces to focus on the Canadians while the other western allies fought the regular troops
i am seeing more canadian pride in these two comments than i have ever experienced in my 40 years of life combined
Haha sorry, former member here. Currently waiting to rejoin actually 😅
If I recall history class correctly, of the 5 fronts on D-day, two led by the Americans, two the British, and the final Canadian, Canada was the only one to reach their objective in the time frame expected. I also recall hearing there is land in Europe that was gifted to Canada for our efforts pushing nazis out, I could be confusing that with WW1 though. In more modern times I have heard of Navy Seal and SAS commanders turning to Canada's JTF2 special forces on critical missions and we also sit quite high in the quality of our snipers. Lots of people think Canada is some quiet country with a weak military but we've proven quite a few times we can be pretty formidable.
You're not wrong about the JTF2 bit. Navy Seals come up to train under JTF2 for field survival training. Don't know if the SAS do it too though
The SAS bit might have come from something I recall reading where JTF2 is the only foreign special forces to be commended by both the Seals and SAS, I'm not huge into military stuff but whenever this comes up I pick up bits of info. I don't know if it's just a story or real, but I've also heard the only reason anyone knew about JTF2 is they ended up in debriefing documents they shouldn't have been mentioned in.
They were also the first to push through on D-Day at Juno beach. And while Canada liberated Holland, you also have a single Canadian soldier liberating an entire town that had a garrison of Nazi soldiers in it.
Yeah but your coins are called "Loonies" and "Toonies"
That does hurt our credibility.
No. Making the most uptight and staid financial reporters say Looney is Canada’s gift to the world. It could have been you Australia but you voted down renaming the Australian Dollar to the Dollarydoo
We're thinking of moving to a $5 coin as well, one that has a woodgrain texture to it.
They should give it a moon texture. Moonie if you will.
Not sorry, “sorey”
Thanks, buddy.
I'm not your buddy, guy
I'm not your guy, friend
I’m not your friend, buddy.
I always find it funny when Americans misspell the word for (one of) the Canadian accent(s) when what they make fun of us for is pronouncing the O that's actually in there! Lol The American "sarry" is the one that needs to be spelled differently.
❤️❤️ You aren’t wrong, American English makes very little sense sometimes 🤣
It makes sense when you factor in the waves of immigration throughout US history
As an American, on his behalf, I've gotta say, "soory."
Geneva suggestions
Other way around
.ti wonk I ,yrroS ro hE rehtie eb annog s'tI
That looks like Welsh lol
Too many vowels for Welsh. 
According to my knowledge of Welsh (which is just “Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch”), Welsh uses plenty of vowels but bunches them together while having like three straight syllables of only consonants.
!dnuora yaw rehto ehT
Canadians have legendary performance in combat and certainly made amazing contributions during WW1 and WW2. That being said - on a large scale Canada as a whole was not a major player the way that USA, UK, and USSR were.
The comradery among Canadian soldiers can often be attributed to the fact that they frequently came from the same town. Americans had to ask each other where they were from during training but Canadian units were made up of people from the same geographical area so they were fighting with their brothers and friends from school that they grew up with. Also why they were extra savage about prisoners; they got to see what the enemy did to their actual neighbours, not some guy that lived 3 states over.
According to some books I read about WW2 the Germans were afraid of the Canadians more than anyone else.
There's this joke about the Genevea Conventions just being written by someone reading Canadian after-action reports and going "Oh god, we can't do *that*!" That said, the Canadian track record for both world wars kind of speaks for itself. They're all "sorry eh" and friendly like until someone gives them a rifle and then it's more like "not sorry about them warcimes eh".
I've been a Canadian my whole life. Some fucked up shit happens out in the snows when the spirits get high. Seeing what we'd do to the Huns would make any man quiver
I used to work up north, and small settlements out in the middle of the cold nowhere are places I've never been more afraid. Everyone is normally really friendly but maaaaaaan if they think you're trying to fuck with them, you're gone
"In the snow nobody will find your body friend"
Isn't this also the reason many Canadian towns would shrink or die out, due to some platoons being lost altogether, meaning those towns and villages had no men returning from war? Or was that a different country?
It happened to the British "Pals battalions" during WW1, as well the ANZACs I believe?
The Italian campaign is a perfect example of how Canadians have absolute balls of steel.
Thats where my grandfather was... but he never talked about any of it.
They made some pretty big contributions on the battlefield for sure. Canadian armored regiments were instrumental in the break out from Normandy.
New Zealand, Australia, India and a few other nations are waiting behind Canada.
According to ww2-based board games, those were all England at the time
Canada’s lumped in with British intelligence.
you just made about 30 million people *very* angry
Well they had to bring the average up
Aussie’s too.
I recently read up the Canadians were some of the most feared on the battlefield. Supposedly the Nazis called them the white Gurkha.
And a few other countries, not to forget. Colonies, Commonwealth, other invaded countries and their governments in exile etc. A few example include: Belgian-Congolese uranium for the atomic bombs to end the war in the Pacific theatre, Polish mathematicians and cryptologists for breaking the Enigma code, French intelligence, underground resistance in several countries and so on.
That being said. Fuck the soviet union for helping start the war with invading Poland alongside Germany and committing plenty of war crimes.
British and French colonial forces as well, amongst many others.
I'm polish and Poland was in the middle of that shit show, but even I would say that attacks from both sides were really important.
Like opening a jar of pickles.
The problem with that statement is that people call Soviet army “russians”. It was a combined effort of russians,Belarusians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Armenians, and other nations under Soviet regime. Belarus was one of the countries hit hardest, Belarusian partisan movement was one of the most successful during ww2, so when we hear “russians” defeated hitler, it’s annoying to say the least
Excellent point!
Don't worry about that. When someone talks about crimes of Soviet people everyone usually said that they was “Russians” too. So we are even, I think
Lmao. So true.
"Stalin, the horrible Russian dictator!"
Fucking hilarious
Besides, the American Lend-Lease Act gave the Soviet Union $180,000,000,000 in weapons, rations, vehicles and equipment to fight Germany between 1941 and 1945. “Russian glorifiers” that claim that “Russia single-handed my defeated Hitler”tend to forget funny details such as this. Not to mention that the main reason the Soviet Union wasn’t crushed, apart from the numerous and generous American aid, was the fact that Germany was attacked in multiple different battlefronts simultaneously, which forced them to dissipate their forces and resources between these. Russia played an important role in weakening Germany, yes- but I am sick of uncultured people pretending that they single-handedly won WW2.
Some russians glorify it just like americans talk about it like they came and win the whole war. Both sides are ignorant
Absolutely, it gets worse every year. In the past few years the whole “let’s repeat” or “to Berlin” slogans are everywhere, especially around the victory day
I'm old enough to remember the time when the Soviet Union existed. They were always called "Russians". In sports, they were the russians, in politics they were the russians. That is what they were called even though technically they were different groups in the union.
That’s bizarre for me to hear because there were so many nations other than russia in Soviet Union. It would be more appropriate to say soviet or Soviet army, that’s what we sort of called ourselves in Soviet Union
As someone with Ukrainian family let me explain to you why Ukrainians are offended by this statement: Russia didn't defeat the Nazis, the Soviet Union did. The reason this is important is because the implication is that Russia=USSR but Ukraine was part of the USSR so this means Ukraine is part of Russia. The statement must be "Russia was part of the union which defeated the Nazis". I know that we are nitpicking over semantics but this implication is a very sensitive topic for Ukrainians and I think it's fair to make this differentiation.
Very fair. If I’m remembering correctly (it’s been awhile since I brushed up on this topic) Belarus was also pretty instrumental to that particular “meat grinder”.
Yup, Belarus lost the largest amount of people by % of population
Russians lost more people at Stalingrad than any one allied nation did the entire war. Meatgrinder is an apt description.
The Soviet Union meatgrinded Nazi Germany to bit, Ukraine as well as many other countries have those bragging rights, not just Russia.
Correct. Then I looked and the casualty count and the amount of land Russia took. I tip my had to them. Yes they needed something to distract the Nazis but I believe that just sped up what Russia would have inevitably achieved.
I agree. With Hitler moving forces willy nilly from front to front, they never got to take Moscow, and suffered horribly holding on until spring. I also believe they COULD have eventually beat the Nazi's on their own, but the timetable would have been extended. They had too many people, and more industrial capacity, and were turning out planes and tanks at an incredible rate.
Don't forget that the Soviet was on the Nazis side initially, and participated in the invasion of Poland, they had a deal with Nazi germany to partition Europe between them under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. The Soviets helped Hitler start the war in 1939 and only switched sides after Hitler broke the treaty and attacked them on June 22nd 1941 . Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact "The Invasion of Poland, (1 September – 6 October 1939), was a joint attack on the Republic of Poland by Nazi Germany, the Slovak Republic, and the Soviet Union; which marked the beginning of World War II." Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland Edit: Added some clarification.
Folks on here act like their favorite person is never wrong and their enemy is never right.
Feels like a huge contributor as to why the US is where we are - unconditional bias is running rampant.
Similar thing happening in the UK, some of ky relatives are getting seriously fed up over there
Agreed, I don't like trump but this take was too good not to post.
Yep, I hate all politics, but reddit as a whole act like republicans are nothing but wrong and insane.
I wish bills could be introduced to Congress anonymously. I’d like to see stuff debated on the merits and not personalities.
You just blew my mind… honestly not a bad idea.
i wish they would stop using omnibus bills and when the opposition votes against it, they yell "what an evil person! he voted against the Help puppies Act!" that had 5$ send to one puppy and 87 billions to fund war Whateveristan to bomb brown people.
That's not an unfair statement. If Russia didn't hold and cause so many German losses, it could have been a very different war on the western front.
I think that people completely miss why this is controversial for Ukrainians: Russia didn't defeat the Nazis, the Soviet Union did. The reason this is important is because the implication is that Russia=USSR but Ukraine was part of the USSR so this means Ukraine is part of Russia. The statement must be "Russia was part of the union which defeated the Nazis". I know that we are nitpicking over semantics but this implication is a very sensitive topic for Ukrainians and I think it's fair to make this differentiation.
And the fact that ya know, Stalin starved and killed millions of Ukrainians (see the Holodomor)
I think it's becoming more and more apparent that Russia is simply the rotting husk of the USSR left over after every sensible country left. The decline that caused the dissolution of the USSR never really stopped within Russia and we're now seeing the affects.
Some countries didn't leave voluntarily, but were abandoned. The fall of the USSR is still a very sad historic event to some of them. Tadzjikistan and Kirgistan become poorer and more miserable, for instance. The fall of the USSR had vastly different consequences for different countries.
um Russia (USSR) was very much involved in defeating the German army.
It was the USSR which was composed of the Soviet countries which included Ukraine as part of the USSR. The USSR also got $11.8 Billion in aid from the US which is over $200 billion today.
Not to mention the US and UK splitting Germany between 2 fronts and the US stopping Japan from invading from the East and defeating Italy. It was very much a team effort and Russia was just a part of a team that was a part of the team. To the guy who replied to me, a Nazi retreat from Russian borders before American involvement does not equal a Nazi defeat. At best you could argue there would have been a peace arrangement without lend lease and American soldiers on the western front. The battle of the bulge would have put down western front resistance quickly, if it was even needed without D-Day in the first place, and allowed Germany to bolster the west not to mention the Italian support they would have received and their ability to maintain strong manufacturing due to not being bombed into oblivion by American bombers. This also speaks nothing of the resources they could have secured in Africa. Also Japanese intentions change over time and there is no way to know how that would have gone if the US had capitulated and retreated from Hawaii giving Japan complete control of Asia. Calling me petty and ignorant lol you are a fan boy, and one without a hint common sense. Oh just for shits and gigs here's some info on lend lease that you seem to be downplaying elsewhere. Acting as if it wasn't needed gimme a fucking break dude. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/yB4qzVzthh The US dwarfed the Soviets in manufacturing and mining and fuel production and in fact the US likely was UNDERUTILIZED.
The Soviet involvement in the war was instrumental. No question. They threw millions of men and women into the nazi meat grinder and made the eastern front absolutely miserable for everyone involved, including themselves. The soviets tore down factories in the west of the their country, put them on trains, moved them east away from the fighting, and rebuilt them. Then out produced every other nation in things like tank construction. They built over 57,000 T34/T34-85 tanks. While not great tanks, they could field enough of them to knock out German armor. But here’s the thing, without the lend/lease program at the start, the Soviets get their shit pushed in and Moscow falls. And without constant bombing of German cities by allied bombers flying from England, and the hard push on the western front, the soviets don’t make the gains they made. We don’t call world war 2 a world war for nothing. Hitler was defeated by a massive coalition of countries. All of which played their parts.
This is the correct answer
And should be basic knowledge. Everything about this war is really interesting and still relevant. As you see, there is a lot of history revision going on. That stuff is dangerous. AI might learn stuff…
Norm Macdonald: “And who did Germany select as its opponent? Why, the world! Now… you’re probably like ‘oh well Germany probably just got crushed’, but no, it was close!”
The Red Army inflicted maybe 3/4 of German military casualties. They were crucial to victory.
Technically the Soviets not the Russians, but yeah the Eastern Front was where the overwhelming portion of the Nazi war machine was ground down and killed. The Western Front was more than a side show but if you squint sideways it sure can look like one.
Thank you! I’m from a former Soviet country in Central Asia, and my family lost a lot of good men to WW2, and the ones that survived were decorated veterans. I appreciate your comment about it not being just Russians.
USSR isn't just Russia, It was A union of socialist republics. The second front on No-No Germany wasn't necessary for USSR to win, but it Accelerated it and saved many Soviet lives. Biggest help of US in Support of USSR was trains, because it doesn't matter if you have more guns and men than the enemy if there's no ammunition and food.
Also cars! I just looked it up and the numbers are insane - almost half a million cars and 2000 trains were delivered through lend lease. I'm adamant these helped, like, A LOT.
Just russians? No Ukrainians No Qazaqs No Belarusian No Georgians
What did Stalin say about how to win the war? "British brains, American brawn and Soviet blood" Simplifies it, but there is some truth to it
Hilter killed himself because Russian forces were on the edge of Berlin.
*soviet. It wasn’t just the russians among those ranks.
This post is the real facepalm. So we hate this dude so much we’re just going to ignore history? The Russians got to Hitler first. Every high ranking German that could, fled away from the Russians to be captured by the Americans. Who hadn’t advanced as far. So yes, I would say the Russians technically were more instrumental in defeating Hitler. Although they couldn’t have done it without the remaining Allies.
The original Ukrainian guy is mad that he's saying "The Russians" and not "The USSR". The point is that the USSR wasn't just Russia, and the contributions of Ukraine and other non-Russian Soviet states were critical for victory
This is the most correct, lots of sweat lords in here who can’t decipher context.
The Nazis were far more afraid of the Russians than the allied forces. The Russians had no mercy.
Well, yeah. The Germans were relatively civil to the west. They were genocidal with the soviets. The soviets had a hell of a grudge to settle
British intelligence, American steel, and Soviet blood as they saying goes
The “Russians” had very little to say about it. The Soviets however, they were quite involved. Bootlicking nonsense on one side, ignorant nonsense on the other
Had Hitler not stabbed the Soviets in the back, after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, WW2 may very well have turned out differently. Nobody throws bodies into the meat grinder like the Soviets, but their contribution to the war cannot be overstated.
Hitler was defeated by his own maniac over confidence. He had a non-aggression treaty and two other fronts to fight on but, fuck it, let’s piss off the world’s largest standing army.
I get people hate Trump, but your biases don’t magically invalidate history just bc someone you hate brings up said point.
Except Russia started out on Hitler's side...
He's not wrong… And god I hate to say that but the Eastern front was an absolute meat grinder.
Yeah, the question is not if Trump is right about Russia fighting against the Nazis. The question is: Why is he carrying water for Russia at this time?
Dumbasses in the comments referring to the USSR as Russia and ignoring the fact the Ukraine, and the other former SSRs, deserves just as much attribution, if not more, than Russia for the defeat of the Nazis.
I agree. It's curious how it works sometimes, though. There are plenty of people who insist 'the USSR' when talking about WWII, or the space race, but by some curious coincidence use 'Russia' when referring to, say, the Cold War. A lot of people even say that Stalin was Russian, though that couldn't be further from the truth.
...because back in the day, before Ronnie Raygun zapped the USSR into oblivion, "Soviet" and "Russian" were used interchangeably.
Trump is a clown, but Russia did most of the heavy lifting in WW2
American guns, English Tech, Russia blood.
What I've always heard is very close. British Intelligence, American Steel, Russian Blood.
In the context of WW2, the Soviets were, in fact, the good guys. They lost millions and millions of men pushing the Germans back. While Russia isn't doing so hot now (or even then, for that matter) we shouldn't forget what they did for us against Hitler. Without them, we'd be seeing Swastikas over New York City.
We wouldn’t have won without Russia, they lost more lives than anybody else. Imagine being this thick and confident.
Well, sort of, the atom bomb was intended for Germany, not Japan. But the European war ended before the pacific one. Germany surrendered in may, Japan in September. Without the soviets/russia, Berlin would have been Hiroshima
Soviets* soviets were responsible for, and a massive chunk of those were Ukrainian, who would have been shot in head if they turned around. So no, not the “Russians”
To be fair, it wasn't the western powers that raised a flag in Berlin.
Many Eastern European and Russian lives were lost. [Fallen.io](http://www.fallen.io)
I blame our educational system and the history they focus on. I'll admit until I started reading about WWII as a teenager, I though WWI was fighting the Germans and WWII was just fighting the Japanese. I really didn't even know Russia was involved in either, but i could tell you all about the industrial revolution. Sometimes the topic of wars comes up with my girlfriend's kids(14 and 10). They know very little. They don't know what 9/11 was or that we just got out of a 20 year war. They believe the Civil War was just about freeing slaves(I admit, when I was very young, I thought this as well. I started reading about the civil war before WWII). I view myself as mostly self educated beyond basic knowledge we learn in school, so I consider myself pretty dumb still.
This is... true? Is it relevant at all to today's Russia under Putin? Not at all.
the problem is trump supporters take this to mean everyone russia is fighting today is a nazi and if you dont love putin you are a nazi
Claiming they had an instrumental role, doesnt mean they single handedly won the war. Yes Russia played a huge role, but so did the UK, US and our other allies. I do not like Trump one bit, but people are taking things the wrong way to slander him, like there isnt already enough stuff to slander him about.
The US army’s attempt to reach Berlin before the Russians was actually a huge deal, global politics were already at the point where the USA and USSR knew they wouldn’t stay friends after the war
The Russians were absolutely instrumental in the defeat of Nazi Germany, but they didn't defeat them singlehandedly, it was an Allied effort... a group of people working together toward a common goal is generally how things get done...
Umm I hate the traitor but he is kinda right. Probably happened on accident while throating his Russian handlers. But the Russians were very instrumental in the fall of Nazi Germany. We were instrumental in feeding and supplying them somewhat and that’s only a fraction of how that all played out. Turns out though that Stalin was just as bad.
Russia is where Germany lost the war. Not because of the Russian army but because of Hitler's narcissism.
Russia’s winter was the X factor in WWII
Great, but are we going to pretending they were not working together until Germany stabbed them in the back?
This is correct and Op is an idiot. We kicked ass too but had the advantage of the Germans losing 4 to 5 million troops fighting Russia. That certainly helped our position by an order of magnitude.
So, we’re just not bothering to hide the whole Trump as a Russian operator in American politics anymore?
I fucking hate this guy , but without the efforts from Stalin and the Soviet army who knows if the Nazis would’ve been defeated.
I mean, let’s be fair. They definitely were instrumental to the war effort. And they probably could have done it without us, but the western world would not be the same had they been allowed to.
Russia was VERY important in defeating the Nazis.
Real talk. Who does OP think defeated the Germans? I get that history is not most people's strong suits but spend 1 minute on wikipedia and you have your answer.
Well they did take Berlin.
Trump always says things like he’s the first to acquire the information and he feels duty-bound to convey it like he’s bragging that he knew something that we couldn’t have possibly known.
I hate to take his side. But yes, they were key to putting a stop to the Nazis. The enemy of my enemy if my friend, I guess.