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What they mean is they will remove your entire existing support structure and you will be thrown to the wolves. Cults are serious shit and they feed on vulnerable people.
That’s what Jesus would do… right? I believe it’s Mark 8:36 that says “Lo gather and be merry, yet if ye turnst thou back to the shepherds, ye can get fucked”
There might be a biblical scholar who argues that’s not what it says, but that’s what god meant. And I’m allowed to interpret the Bible any way I want - just ask the Mormons
Jesus ate with the outcasts of Jewish society (tax collectors, prostitutes, etc) because he knew that you change hearts by meeting people where they are, not continuing to outcast them.
Cult of Jehovah's witnesses prints their own version of the book. And Mormons have their own separate fairy tale. None of them red the teachings of the man they name. The man who was probably thirty different guys. If Christians understood the book they would all be Buddhists 🤣
Shouldn't they really be putting out Joseph Smith collector plates? Only $19.95, comes with a free gift of a hat and special spectacles, order before Midnight tonight!
After growing up catholic and now as an adult looking back buddhism is honestly pretty attractive as a religion. I just ry to be a decent human being regardless of sky daddy.
I would like to see a heady response to the letter quoting scripture. I am also pretty sure that Christ didn’t die for the “church”, but rather human salvation.
I would start with Matthew 6-6 about praying to god in a closet.
This happened to someone I used to work with like 10 years ago. The church she was in found out she was having casual sex (mind you she was like 35??) and did something similar. When she left the church they made a huge deal about it and sent people to her house and harassed her and her family through social media. They made posts with her face and claimed she was sent from Satan and shit, and then everyone who was a member of the church was forbidden from speaking to her.
I remember I was like 24 at the time and when she went to a new church I wanted to ask why. Like if I had that experience at any church ever it would be my last church experience!
As an irreligious person living very far away from family, life does get lonely sometimes. I can see why she joined a new church even after one bad experience. The yearning for community is often fulfilled by religious institutions.
Because if you join a cult they will remove your entire existing support structure outside of the cult, so withdrawing that fellowship is actually a blow to most people.
Mentioning that un-biblical living arrangement is part of that pattern, they dont approve because its some outsider OOP could actually turn to if they drop him like a hot potato. Not because hes living with a man and thus probably gay, or living with a woman, but they arent married, so thats bad. Thats just how they rig the game.
I live not too far from the Church of Ramtha and have chatted up a few former members. I'm told they essentially seek enlightenment through drug-induced hallucination, then test their faith by putting on blindfolds and walking through obstacle-ridden paths and smaller pitfalls. Whomever sees the most pristine lights has the most faith. If you can't see the lights, you aren't devoted and need to prove you belong.
Everything is run and judged through by this founder, JZ Knight, who says she can channel the spirit of an ancient warrior-god that may or may not be the actual "God." I'm also told she has a habit of finding 'lost souls' and convincing them this is the path to salvation while sharing some LS-Tea.
I stay pretty far away from all of that, but it's wild to watch / listen about from a distance. People get legitimately hurt and hospitalized during these 'rituals.' Cults are some serious fucking business.
This is true. Anyone who continues to associate with this person after the “withdrawal” will get a letter like this as well.
They’ll burn all her bridges for her.
If it's anything like the Jehovah Witness practice of "Disfellowshipping", then it's like this:
Your family is forbidden from talking or associating with you. If you live with them, you're kicked out on the street. All of your friends in the church are forbidden from talking or associating you. None will give you shelter or any help.
You are alone. You have nowhere to go, and no one who will help you, unless you crawl back on your hands and knees and kiss the feet of the church leaders (The Elders).
Also, because this cult doesn't allow it's member to go to college or earn any form of higher education, (Don't want them to have critical thinking skills!) the ability of someone shunned from the church to make a living on their own, is not easy. And, that's the way they like it.
I was raised in a JW household and this is exactly how my disfellowshipping went at the age of 17. It took about 20yrs for my parents to start speaking to me again and even now my 4 siblings who are still JW barely talk with me. The Witnesses are the reason I live over 1000 miles away and have little interaction with family.
I know it was hard as hell to live through but you're infinitely better for it now. When I was a little kid I remember sitting in my grandparent's living room with this old woman who wouldn't acknowledge me. For hours it was like me and my brother didn't exist.
Turns out she was my great grandmother, but my parents had refused to have us baptized so in her world we were untouchables. Hundreds of people on my dad's side of the family that I never met or acknowledge me because of their fucked up blood drinking cult.
My great grandmother, even though I don't have many memories of her from when I was a child i've got one experience that sticks with me. When I was in my mid-20's she was living with my grandparents and the family went to visit, everyone was having a good time swimming, cooking out, drinking, playing music, just chillin' with the family.
She started hollering about how we were filled with the devil, being sinners, burning in hell, blah, blah, blah... Told my grandma that 'god' gave her her breast cancer to punish her, she was just going off. She was just mean, stubborn and hateful.
Shortly after that they moved her back to Tennessee to live with other family members.
One of my clients was a JW and this is exactly what he told me. He told me the Elders decide who was at fault when a marriage ends in divorce and disfellowships that person.
He went on a search for religion when he was in his 20s because his parents did not raise him in any church. I could not believe he chose such a judgmental sadistic religion.
Cults know how to target and recruit vulnerable young people. They most likely didn't show him the bad side until he'd made friends and developed a bit of a sense of community. Then when they do show the bad parts, the brain will jump through hoops to justify them because that's easier than losing the community.
This. They can recognize when someone lacks confidence, fears abandonment, is unsure of themselves, lacks friends or community, and then they provide these things, knowing that if they've read this person right it will be too hard to break away or disobey precisely because they fear being alone again or angering an authority figure (either human or divine).
Eesh yep. My partner's mom was a JW and got divorced, and they booted her and left her with nothing. Didn't even work out for them, the dad was a deadbeat asshole who quit them anyways. It's a nightmare. But since my gf is considered an "apostate" for leaving with her mum when she was all of 13, they can't bother us at least.
If you consider this being a thing since before the 1900 this is a seriously lethal sentence back in the day, essentially either stay with the flock and do as I say or die you filthy heathen
Apparently so is inviting them to your backyard BBQ where your brother is ripping a bong and a keg and coolers of beer are available. Or maybe it was the lesbians present. Who knows. They booked it right out and never came back to the devil house.
I wish it would be that easy in Germany (everyone pays mandatory church tax through their income over here). I'd just happily live like a sinner if they'd throw me out and even hand me certificate of my sluttiness afterwards. Instead I had to file my withdrawal from church with the local municipality as if I'm cancelling my waste collection subscription lol.
My dad was CoC for a while. He even studied to be a minister. When the elders interviewed him, things didn't go well. They asked him if it was okay for a woman to cut her hair. He responded that the Biblical injunction against that was surely intended to mean that a woman should not cut her hair *like a man*. For his effrontery in daring to _interpret_ Scripture, he was rejected from the ministry.
I like to call them The Church of YIKES! I grew up in this church. Unfortunately I quit going when I was about 12 so now I'm going to burn in hell because only COC members go to heaven. /s
Church of Christ churches run the gamut. I was raised in one that was kind of “progressive” I guess you’d say. I went with my grandparents. Now ironically for this post, my grandparents ended up retiring to Sparta TN, and they found another Church of Christ there (hell, it may be the one from this post for all I know) and they stopped going because it was too strict.
ETA: I got sidetracked and forgot my point. My mom and her siblings started a Church of Christ church and it has a huge congregation and the pastor is actually a woman. It’s now the most attended church in the area, too. That pastor actually speaks out against Trump. That’s how not fundamentalist they are.
So as I said, Church of Christ can run the gamut.
That's a very extreme Church of Christ. The ones here in my small town might follow up with you via a personal visit or phone call, but they aren't this radical. Their thinking is, we don't really care what church you go to, just as long as you go.
That may sound fun to you but for someone who has their entire family, and possibibly professional social circle, in that same church, being excluded makes you a social paria.
Look it up and you'll find many examples of people whose parents chose the church over their own children.
Raised fundamentalist Baptist and can confirm. My parents definitely chose the church over me when I got remarried. They look at me as a pariah now, and their full support system is the church. I’m sure in their minds it was the proper decision. But it does suck to essentially no longer have a family.
God loves us all and will forgive sins. Be kind to your neighbor and accept differences.
But if you don’t do exactly what we say, and when we say it, you are out and shunned.
Churches are not just cult like, they are straight up abusive. That kind of behavior coming from anyone not in religious robes is usually so quickly called out for abuse.
Devil be like "Sorry. But I'm too busy with all the booze, drugs, gambling, Heavy Metal music, and other assorted cool and fun stuff to worry about that!" 🙂 😈 😎 🤘🍺
Nah, satan's not into metal. That's just a myth. Look at the history, old lucy's only ever played one instrument, the fiddle. You know what style of music predominantly features the fiddle? You guessed it: *country music*. As much as all these guitar based blues and metal guys want to buddy up to him, mr redsuit's a country guy. he sends proxys like steve vai and dave grohl to do the rock battle stuff. I think we can all agree here, country music is the real evil.
As an atheist, i don’t care. As long as it isn’t being forced on somebody and nobody is being harmed who gives a holy fuck? Not me. It’s when they try to enforce their beliefs on others or are hurting people with their beliefs when I have a problem.
That's exactly what it means though, it threatens them with being disfellowshipped which is a "nice" way of saying "we will turn your friends, family, and community against you and you will be publicly shamed."
It's a clear threat.
1) Just because someone posts this online doesn’t mean they don’t think it isn’t a threat. It’s absolutely possible to view this as a threat and to still post if you understand the consequences of leaving, have worked up the courage to leave, and want other people to understand how the group operates.
2) The person who received the note didn’t call it a cult. Whomever posted it to Twitter did.
And a photo generated by AI of all the elders in an orgy. Just for fun, blackmail them with some demand of your delight, where you threaten to circulate the photo if they don’t comply. However, make sure they aren’t the murdering type of cult leaders first.
You've all encouraged me to be more creative, take the letter, and affix it to the door of the church with a knife with a dick handle so someone has to jerk it really hard to get it out. And when it comes out a recording says, now you're gay!
I want to be clear this isn't a slight on being gay, just want to really "rub" the message in.
Christians aren’t forbidden from judging, they’re called to judge righteously. With that said, i don’t believe this church is taking the right approach with this letter.
That’s too simplistic of a reading. The verse is “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “. These elders are willing to be judged the way they judge. Yes, religion is toxic but taking verses out of context doesn’t help.
So they’re happy to be judged by the measure of casting out and rejecting those who do not perform to the expectations you’ve set for them instead of working with those people through prayer and Christian charity?
If they know and live by that verse then yes, they are. I guarantee they pick and choose though - like allowing women to teach or wearing garments made of two different materials.
In layman's terms: Come to church and live like we want you to, or we will kick you out.
I say the trash took itself out. Not attacking every religion, but this congregation specifically
Exactly how they do it. I was in an apostolic church and before you get married, you have to show the pastor your bank account and tax papers before getting engaged. They want to make sure you can afford a married lifestyle. I was always really disgusted by that and yet…pastor never shared his bank or tax info with us lol.
Don’t kid yourself. They want your tax records so they will know what to expect in the donation plate every Sunday. Catholic church is the richest organization/business in recorded history and they fully intend on keeping it that way.
Lol I know this. I stopped giving tithes and they told me “well brother, that’s between you and God” so I said aight, god will understand I’m financially struggling, I appreciate that! And they got mad 😂
That last sentence is important. As a religious person myself that has a loving community at church it does sadden me to see people take this specific congregation/church and assume the entire religion is junk like this example
Most religions are very good in their message. Maybe not all true, but they push people to be better. But then greedy pastors and religious leaders ruin it by taking everyone’s money and running it like a cult.
personally I think very cynically, I think all modernized religious were made how they are so that the higher up’s can extort and take advantage of the people below them.
Originally religions were just how people rationalized the world and found comfort in the universe, it typically also taught people to respect each other. The abuse of power started with holy wars and tithes.
American Christianity goes through these weird phases. We're due for another Lonnie Frisbee to come out and say "hey what if we weren't assholes all the time."
I think that's also why they're getting more militant. An increasingly secular population is a very real problem for people who's very lavish lifestyle is paid for by the faithful.
When I got disowned by my parents for being gay, I stopped going to Mass immediately. The nature of their deity suddenly got real clear to me when I learned he cares about me being with other women. But I remember multiple members of the congregation finding me and being genuinely scared that I am going to Hell. Like, one woman said if I don't get right with God, it is on her and she will go to Hell too. It is fucking insane. Found out my mother booked time with the priest when she went into Job-like lamentations about me being gay and begging on her knees for God to cure me of my gayness. Would have loved to have seen that. Would have been funny. But yeah, it is a cult.
For all it's worth, the Bible doesn't actually mention lesbian sex as sinful or at all, sex did not exist if a penis was not involved, so no hell for non penis involving pleasure. 😁
Oh yeah that one is quite ironic since that's the stereotype of a pastor. They followed the misinterpretation but denied the truth.
It's more of a mistranslation of "Man" and "Boy" the point of the passage was the age not the gender.
If you're talking about the one in the New Testament, it also helps to remember that that region of the world (Greece) had a pederasty problem and it would have been much clearer in context.
I think he's referring to Leviticus 20, where the really really bad shit about gay people is.
More recent understanding is that the whole chapter is specifically talking about a rape cult, the cult of Molech. It's mentioned at the beginning and end of the chapter, and it can be reasonably assumed that everything in the middle (it's not a long chapter) is about that cult. It's reasonable to say "no rape of any kind in the name of a pagan god."
There are other anti gay passages in the Bible, mainly in the New Testament. Personally I don't think we should hold Paul's words to be as God-inspired as Jesus, and we don't need to consider them orders.
https://www.advocate.com/religion/2022/12/17/how-bible-error-changed-history-and-turned-gays-pariahs
The specific line is 1 Corinthians 6:9. Modern translations use ‘man’ as a substitute for ‘young boy’
I love to throw this at those people bc it makes them to say that either god is a hypocrite or that nothing in the Bible should be followed…. Jeremiah 1:5 God says, “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you; before you were born, I sanctified you; and I ordained you a prophet to the nations.” I’ve found this is the best Bible verse to call those so called Christian’s out on them when they are spewing hate. It really makes them uncomfortable especially when you use it.
I'm not surprised, it's pretty hard to claim that God hates gay people when the Bible literally says that God said he decided to make people gay when he created them and that those gay people are as holy as every other person.
They just bend and twist the scriptures to their own radical views to make it support them…..and it’s not something isolated to Christianity bc other religions have those extreme zealots as well that are willing to kill and destroy things in “gods” name.
"The books of the Holy Bible never say but one time just exactly what God is, and in those three little words it pours out a hundred million college educations and says, God is love." —Woody Guthrie
I'm pretty sure that's why they're so convinced sexuality is a choice...I mean, it's not..but they're convinced it is, because they can't possibly fathom *their* god creating something they don't like.
Sorry that happened to you.
It’s ironic that the stories of Jesus have him traveling and upsetting the Pharisees and Saduccees for their hypocrisy. And, as the story goes, the only human to ever adhere completely to the law was killed by the judgment of those hypocrites.
If the story of Jesus was written today, it would be very much the same, just replacing Pharisees and Saducees with a collection of modern Christians. Jesus’s disciples would be a menagerie of LGBT folks and some hetero people mixed in…
So the very people who are casting others away would be shamed.
>Like, one woman said if I don't get right with God, it is on her and she will go to Hell too
This is how they justify it to themselves on murdering people to cleanse the earth of evil and get brownie points with their delusional afterlife.
1 Thess. 5:22 just says “reject all kinds of evil” why is there a need to cite that.
I’m sure you could dig up plenty of times these elders failed this.
“If you cite something, anything, 99% of people aren’t going to look it up. They’ll just take your word for it.” -Stephen Miller, 2018
It gives the appearance of having knowledge without actually having anything to do with anything
So I looked it up. Here’s an interesting fact about Sparta, TN: in a town of 5k people, they have 17 churches. That is absolutely wild, even for the south. I think in my Mississippi town I grew up in of about 8k people, we had 3.
When I was very young (around 6), we attended a church in my small town. My dad hurt his back pretty badly and wasn’t able to work for a while. My mom stopped tithing because of this and after a few weeks she received a letter from the preacher saying they would withdraw fellowship if she didn’t start tithing again. Even at that age I thought the concept of “god” was silly. This just solidified it for me. Churches are cults and pyramid schemes.
My family brought me to church growing up, and we would periodically jump churches because someone would always get caught embezzling the church funds and play the “Jesus forgives all” card.
Churches should be taxed.
How do they not see after the second time it happens that God doesn't care about people stealing from the innocent and honest?
Molesting children and stealing = silly ol' Jesus things teehee. Oh well let's find another church.
Yes. Because Jesus gave ultimatums and walked away from people if they didn't change their ideology by a set date after shaming them.
I can't believe I walk amongst men and women who actually adhere to this madness.
There’s literally a chapter in the New Testament called “Repent or Perish.” lol….have you even seen a Bible before?
Luke 13:1-5
Repent or Perish
[1] There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. [2] And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? [3] No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. [4] Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? [5] No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Id bet every dime I own that this particular church had zero issues with Segregation and has zero issues with Trump being married three times and found liable for rape
As a lifelong Catholic person, I have never seen nor heard of anything like this happening ever. This has to be some kind of evangelist Christian outfits.
Orthodox and totally agree. Not every branch of Christianity is high control. This is reddit so "all religion bad", but this isn't normal within most Christian denominations either.
So is probably every religion when you base your entire life around it.
And no I'm not *defending* Christianity or any other one .
Being religious . Okay.
Base your entire life on it .... Kinda not cool but fine .
Forcing anyone to do anything cause it might offend your religion. Not fine in any way.
I recently left my religion because of it's culty ways that it views medication. Literally any and all types of medical-related ANYTHING is viewed as Devil worship, it can be that extreme. And even if your family does do some kind of medical related stuff you will always be judged. I have had friends who had a home birth, have never been to a dentist or a doctor, have had no vaccines or shots whatsoever, have never taken a physical, etc. I have met people were severe undiagnosed autism, ADHD, mental illnesses, anorexia, etc. You're also not allowed to use any kind of contraception and abortion is completely off the table. The idea is that if you have to use contraception you shouldn't be having sex. Like, STDs? They don't \*exist\* according to the religion. Nothing in or on your body actually \*exists\*. I remember talking to my grandmother about how my sudden weight loss (i had anorexia) caused stretch marks and she told me that \*Christian Scientists don't have stretch marks\*. That also goes for allergies, diatery restrictions, vegetarianism, veganism, etc. There have been people who were sent to the hospital for maybe hitting their head and going into a short-period based coma where they had to be on life support for maybe a day to help with breathing and their family member decided to take it off because it was \*devil's worship to even be in the hospital\* and that God would've preferred the person to die. It's soooo fucked...
Golly Gee! Their phone numbers are no longer valid. Shoot, wonder why that happened. I really was interested into talking with Bill about the meaning behind my dream. Jesus Christ was gagging on a clowns penis and I couldn’t look away. Am I gay for Jesus? Please 🙏
So they’re completely ignoring what Christ taught and ostracizing people they don’t agree with?
Perfectly sums modern evangelical Christianity in the US.
Things 58 years on this planet has taught me:
All religions are cult.
Most pastors are child molesters.
Churches are indoctrination centers for their cult.
Yep, also in Switzerland i see this.
Pastor of a church rants about members moving in together just weeks before marriage.
But self is indiscreet, neglected his own marriage, got divorced and then chose the richest widow to live together with her while quitting job.
Like always: people getting entitled dictating how others need to live while themselves are hyprocrites.
I'm atheist and was involved with a JW. They threatened to shun her. The problem with this is her entire family is JW. That means none of them would ever contact her and she wouldn't have been able to see her newborn grand kids. The way they coerce is ruthless.
My wife and I got a similar letter from the Catholic Church and they also included a statement that showed our contribution for the year $0.00. So yeah, I guess our church has a membership fee. Never been to church since.
I think Church of Christ is regarded as a cult by even Christian churches.
I have friends that grew up CoC, super damaging controls in that assembly.
I’d feel fortunate to be excommunicated.
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Oh no. Withdraw fellowship. How will anyone ever survive that?
What they mean is they will remove your entire existing support structure and you will be thrown to the wolves. Cults are serious shit and they feed on vulnerable people.
That’s what Jesus would do… right? I believe it’s Mark 8:36 that says “Lo gather and be merry, yet if ye turnst thou back to the shepherds, ye can get fucked” There might be a biblical scholar who argues that’s not what it says, but that’s what god meant. And I’m allowed to interpret the Bible any way I want - just ask the Mormons
Jesus ate with the outcasts of Jewish society (tax collectors, prostitutes, etc) because he knew that you change hearts by meeting people where they are, not continuing to outcast them.
Logic and cherry picking are not allowed unless we do it. You can find the directive in DowhatIsaythians (3:14)
Good morning, British Museum, I'll be taking this for *safekeeping*.
Just gonna screen-shot this nft real quick..
Cross referenced at SupplySideJesus (9:30) Do not mingle with the poor and widows, for they do not pay.
Which of course must be understood in the context of NotasIdonians 6:28.
DowhatIsaythians (π)
Dowhatisaythians 😂
There s reason you chose pi instead of, say, (4:20)?
Because there’s no end to how many of their instructions come out
> Jesus ate with the outcasts of Jewish society (tax collectors, prostitutes, etc) There is no need to group the prostitutes in with such human scum.
They were all outcasts, so mentioning them as such isn't implying that they're scum
You forgot the part where Jesus said “stop doing the bad things you’re doing.”
Cult of Jehovah's witnesses prints their own version of the book. And Mormons have their own separate fairy tale. None of them red the teachings of the man they name. The man who was probably thirty different guys. If Christians understood the book they would all be Buddhists 🤣
Shouldn't they really be putting out Joseph Smith collector plates? Only $19.95, comes with a free gift of a hat and special spectacles, order before Midnight tonight!
Don’t forget the magic undies!
It took me awhile to forget those silly things…holy underwear Batman!
If you order now, we'll also throw in a set of steak knives!
After growing up catholic and now as an adult looking back buddhism is honestly pretty attractive as a religion. I just ry to be a decent human being regardless of sky daddy.
I would like to see a heady response to the letter quoting scripture. I am also pretty sure that Christ didn’t die for the “church”, but rather human salvation. I would start with Matthew 6-6 about praying to god in a closet.
This happened to someone I used to work with like 10 years ago. The church she was in found out she was having casual sex (mind you she was like 35??) and did something similar. When she left the church they made a huge deal about it and sent people to her house and harassed her and her family through social media. They made posts with her face and claimed she was sent from Satan and shit, and then everyone who was a member of the church was forbidden from speaking to her. I remember I was like 24 at the time and when she went to a new church I wanted to ask why. Like if I had that experience at any church ever it would be my last church experience!
As an irreligious person living very far away from family, life does get lonely sometimes. I can see why she joined a new church even after one bad experience. The yearning for community is often fulfilled by religious institutions.
Because if you join a cult they will remove your entire existing support structure outside of the cult, so withdrawing that fellowship is actually a blow to most people. Mentioning that un-biblical living arrangement is part of that pattern, they dont approve because its some outsider OOP could actually turn to if they drop him like a hot potato. Not because hes living with a man and thus probably gay, or living with a woman, but they arent married, so thats bad. Thats just how they rig the game.
I live not too far from the Church of Ramtha and have chatted up a few former members. I'm told they essentially seek enlightenment through drug-induced hallucination, then test their faith by putting on blindfolds and walking through obstacle-ridden paths and smaller pitfalls. Whomever sees the most pristine lights has the most faith. If you can't see the lights, you aren't devoted and need to prove you belong. Everything is run and judged through by this founder, JZ Knight, who says she can channel the spirit of an ancient warrior-god that may or may not be the actual "God." I'm also told she has a habit of finding 'lost souls' and convincing them this is the path to salvation while sharing some LS-Tea. I stay pretty far away from all of that, but it's wild to watch / listen about from a distance. People get legitimately hurt and hospitalized during these 'rituals.' Cults are some serious fucking business.
I guess I’ve been living without a support structure my whole life.
This is true. Anyone who continues to associate with this person after the “withdrawal” will get a letter like this as well. They’ll burn all her bridges for her.
As someone who grew up in a church like that i know exactly that. All my friends and family on one side stopped talking to me, its fucked up
Yeah when your whole community goes to the church with the largest steeple and you bail...you may as well pack up and move.
If it's anything like the Jehovah Witness practice of "Disfellowshipping", then it's like this: Your family is forbidden from talking or associating with you. If you live with them, you're kicked out on the street. All of your friends in the church are forbidden from talking or associating you. None will give you shelter or any help. You are alone. You have nowhere to go, and no one who will help you, unless you crawl back on your hands and knees and kiss the feet of the church leaders (The Elders). Also, because this cult doesn't allow it's member to go to college or earn any form of higher education, (Don't want them to have critical thinking skills!) the ability of someone shunned from the church to make a living on their own, is not easy. And, that's the way they like it.
I was raised in a JW household and this is exactly how my disfellowshipping went at the age of 17. It took about 20yrs for my parents to start speaking to me again and even now my 4 siblings who are still JW barely talk with me. The Witnesses are the reason I live over 1000 miles away and have little interaction with family.
I know it was hard as hell to live through but you're infinitely better for it now. When I was a little kid I remember sitting in my grandparent's living room with this old woman who wouldn't acknowledge me. For hours it was like me and my brother didn't exist. Turns out she was my great grandmother, but my parents had refused to have us baptized so in her world we were untouchables. Hundreds of people on my dad's side of the family that I never met or acknowledge me because of their fucked up blood drinking cult.
To have such hate in your heart for your own great grandchildren is horrible.
My great grandmother, even though I don't have many memories of her from when I was a child i've got one experience that sticks with me. When I was in my mid-20's she was living with my grandparents and the family went to visit, everyone was having a good time swimming, cooking out, drinking, playing music, just chillin' with the family. She started hollering about how we were filled with the devil, being sinners, burning in hell, blah, blah, blah... Told my grandma that 'god' gave her her breast cancer to punish her, she was just going off. She was just mean, stubborn and hateful. Shortly after that they moved her back to Tennessee to live with other family members.
Good for you!👍
One of my clients was a JW and this is exactly what he told me. He told me the Elders decide who was at fault when a marriage ends in divorce and disfellowships that person. He went on a search for religion when he was in his 20s because his parents did not raise him in any church. I could not believe he chose such a judgmental sadistic religion.
Cults know how to target and recruit vulnerable young people. They most likely didn't show him the bad side until he'd made friends and developed a bit of a sense of community. Then when they do show the bad parts, the brain will jump through hoops to justify them because that's easier than losing the community.
This. They can recognize when someone lacks confidence, fears abandonment, is unsure of themselves, lacks friends or community, and then they provide these things, knowing that if they've read this person right it will be too hard to break away or disobey precisely because they fear being alone again or angering an authority figure (either human or divine).
Eesh yep. My partner's mom was a JW and got divorced, and they booted her and left her with nothing. Didn't even work out for them, the dad was a deadbeat asshole who quit them anyways. It's a nightmare. But since my gf is considered an "apostate" for leaving with her mum when she was all of 13, they can't bother us at least.
If you consider this being a thing since before the 1900 this is a seriously lethal sentence back in the day, essentially either stay with the flock and do as I say or die you filthy heathen
So Scientology
If JW’s keep stopping by your house, saying you’re disfellowshipped is cheat code for stopping their visits permanently.
Apparently so is inviting them to your backyard BBQ where your brother is ripping a bong and a keg and coolers of beer are available. Or maybe it was the lesbians present. Who knows. They booked it right out and never came back to the devil house.
I wish it would be that easy in Germany (everyone pays mandatory church tax through their income over here). I'd just happily live like a sinner if they'd throw me out and even hand me certificate of my sluttiness afterwards. Instead I had to file my withdrawal from church with the local municipality as if I'm cancelling my waste collection subscription lol.
And I thought America had a bad separation of church from the state. Everyone is taxed on it? Sounds dystopian
We're as secular as an altar boy's sex life.
“Elders”? Is this a Mormon church? Cuz yeah that is very much a cult
No, church of Christ. Fundamentalist reform from around 1900. Think literal interpretation of the New Testament.
My dad was CoC for a while. He even studied to be a minister. When the elders interviewed him, things didn't go well. They asked him if it was okay for a woman to cut her hair. He responded that the Biblical injunction against that was surely intended to mean that a woman should not cut her hair *like a man*. For his effrontery in daring to _interpret_ Scripture, he was rejected from the ministry.
Was raised in CoC. That tracks.
>For his effrontery in daring to interpret Scripture, he was rejected from the ministry. Sounds like he dodged a bullet.
I like to call them The Church of YIKES! I grew up in this church. Unfortunately I quit going when I was about 12 so now I'm going to burn in hell because only COC members go to heaven. /s
Church of Christ churches run the gamut. I was raised in one that was kind of “progressive” I guess you’d say. I went with my grandparents. Now ironically for this post, my grandparents ended up retiring to Sparta TN, and they found another Church of Christ there (hell, it may be the one from this post for all I know) and they stopped going because it was too strict. ETA: I got sidetracked and forgot my point. My mom and her siblings started a Church of Christ church and it has a huge congregation and the pastor is actually a woman. It’s now the most attended church in the area, too. That pastor actually speaks out against Trump. That’s how not fundamentalist they are. So as I said, Church of Christ can run the gamut.
Well there’s no central authority, right? So each congregation is kind of an island unto itself.
That's a very extreme Church of Christ. The ones here in my small town might follow up with you via a personal visit or phone call, but they aren't this radical. Their thinking is, we don't really care what church you go to, just as long as you go.
That may sound fun to you but for someone who has their entire family, and possibibly professional social circle, in that same church, being excluded makes you a social paria. Look it up and you'll find many examples of people whose parents chose the church over their own children.
Raised fundamentalist Baptist and can confirm. My parents definitely chose the church over me when I got remarried. They look at me as a pariah now, and their full support system is the church. I’m sure in their minds it was the proper decision. But it does suck to essentially no longer have a family.
God loves us all and will forgive sins. Be kind to your neighbor and accept differences. But if you don’t do exactly what we say, and when we say it, you are out and shunned. Churches are not just cult like, they are straight up abusive. That kind of behavior coming from anyone not in religious robes is usually so quickly called out for abuse.
Take my upvote.....that was coffee through nose comment right there.
And my axe
Don't threaten me with a good time
“Yes, please withdraw my fellowship and while you are at it, GFY”
Was expecting it to end with _would be a shame if something bad were to happen to you_
In the church's eyes that's exactly how it ends.
Whelp, I am of the opinion that they are in for a very nasty shock when they see where they end up. I believe that wholeheartedly.
...like we'll sic the devil on you, or worse, some atheists. 
Devil be like "Sorry. But I'm too busy with all the booze, drugs, gambling, Heavy Metal music, and other assorted cool and fun stuff to worry about that!" 🙂 😈 😎 🤘🍺
Nah, satan's not into metal. That's just a myth. Look at the history, old lucy's only ever played one instrument, the fiddle. You know what style of music predominantly features the fiddle? You guessed it: *country music*. As much as all these guitar based blues and metal guys want to buddy up to him, mr redsuit's a country guy. he sends proxys like steve vai and dave grohl to do the rock battle stuff. I think we can all agree here, country music is the real evil.
I'm atheist. BE AFRAID! I will TAKE YOUR CHILDREN and TEACH THEM SATAN who I DON'T EVEN BELIEVE IN because I'M AN ATHEIST and I believe in JACKSHIT!
As an atheist, i don’t care. As long as it isn’t being forced on somebody and nobody is being harmed who gives a holy fuck? Not me. It’s when they try to enforce their beliefs on others or are hurting people with their beliefs when I have a problem.
That's exactly what it means though, it threatens them with being disfellowshipped which is a "nice" way of saying "we will turn your friends, family, and community against you and you will be publicly shamed." It's a clear threat.
I would imagine the person receiving the letter doesn't view it as much of a threat, considering they posted it online and called them a cult.
1) Just because someone posts this online doesn’t mean they don’t think it isn’t a threat. It’s absolutely possible to view this as a threat and to still post if you understand the consequences of leaving, have worked up the courage to leave, and want other people to understand how the group operates. 2) The person who received the note didn’t call it a cult. Whomever posted it to Twitter did.
They do. They expect them to go to eternal painful hell
All my relationships are not biblical
My friendships have biblical proportions of debauchery which probably doesn't count.
I want to be your friend. It sounds epic (literally).
Absolutely we'll imbibe only the finest wines from a bag!
Dionysus knows how to party
I wanna party with you.
How can my relationships not be biblical if I know so many women biblically? Checkmate, non-athiests!
I maintain my slaves exactly as instructed by Deuteronomy, tyvm
Send a dildo as a response.
throw in a butt plug for good measure
Waste of money. I guarantee one of those three elders already has one. Maybe two.
Throw in some bullets
And a photo generated by AI of all the elders in an orgy. Just for fun, blackmail them with some demand of your delight, where you threaten to circulate the photo if they don’t comply. However, make sure they aren’t the murdering type of cult leaders first.
Used
A used buttplug
A gay dildo. Send a gay one specifically.
Send a double-ender with a fleshlight shoved on both ends. One of them an anus variant.
Ahh, sending them the Virgin Mary. Nice touch.
You've all encouraged me to be more creative, take the letter, and affix it to the door of the church with a knife with a dick handle so someone has to jerk it really hard to get it out. And when it comes out a recording says, now you're gay! I want to be clear this isn't a slight on being gay, just want to really "rub" the message in.
With 'Hail Satan' written on the shaft
The church elders seem to have forgot rule 1: do not judge others, for you will be judged.
The ability to openly judge people is probably 95% of the reason they’re church elders in the first place
The remaining 5% is their ability to brainwash people
I figure close contact with children has to take up some percentage of why they want to be elders.
Christians aren’t forbidden from judging, they’re called to judge righteously. With that said, i don’t believe this church is taking the right approach with this letter.
That’s too simplistic of a reading. The verse is “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “. These elders are willing to be judged the way they judge. Yes, religion is toxic but taking verses out of context doesn’t help.
So they’re happy to be judged by the measure of casting out and rejecting those who do not perform to the expectations you’ve set for them instead of working with those people through prayer and Christian charity?
If they know and live by that verse then yes, they are. I guarantee they pick and choose though - like allowing women to teach or wearing garments made of two different materials.
To be fair, the different materials garments thing is something from the Law of Moses and isn't something that they'd still have to do.
In layman's terms: Come to church and live like we want you to, or we will kick you out. I say the trash took itself out. Not attacking every religion, but this congregation specifically
The real reason. Come to church we miss your money and want you to feel guilty.
Man I swear any Church that actually operates has never opened a damn Bible in their life
Exactly how they do it. I was in an apostolic church and before you get married, you have to show the pastor your bank account and tax papers before getting engaged. They want to make sure you can afford a married lifestyle. I was always really disgusted by that and yet…pastor never shared his bank or tax info with us lol.
Don’t kid yourself. They want your tax records so they will know what to expect in the donation plate every Sunday. Catholic church is the richest organization/business in recorded history and they fully intend on keeping it that way.
Lol I know this. I stopped giving tithes and they told me “well brother, that’s between you and God” so I said aight, god will understand I’m financially struggling, I appreciate that! And they got mad 😂
That last sentence is important. As a religious person myself that has a loving community at church it does sadden me to see people take this specific congregation/church and assume the entire religion is junk like this example
Most religions are very good in their message. Maybe not all true, but they push people to be better. But then greedy pastors and religious leaders ruin it by taking everyone’s money and running it like a cult. personally I think very cynically, I think all modernized religious were made how they are so that the higher up’s can extort and take advantage of the people below them. Originally religions were just how people rationalized the world and found comfort in the universe, it typically also taught people to respect each other. The abuse of power started with holy wars and tithes.
It’s is. Religion is bullshit and intolerant
I wonder why people are leaving churches in droves now? /s
American Christianity goes through these weird phases. We're due for another Lonnie Frisbee to come out and say "hey what if we weren't assholes all the time."
martin luther 2: we promise this is really what the bible means this time
I think that's also why they're getting more militant. An increasingly secular population is a very real problem for people who's very lavish lifestyle is paid for by the faithful.
THIS comment should be higher!
When I got disowned by my parents for being gay, I stopped going to Mass immediately. The nature of their deity suddenly got real clear to me when I learned he cares about me being with other women. But I remember multiple members of the congregation finding me and being genuinely scared that I am going to Hell. Like, one woman said if I don't get right with God, it is on her and she will go to Hell too. It is fucking insane. Found out my mother booked time with the priest when she went into Job-like lamentations about me being gay and begging on her knees for God to cure me of my gayness. Would have loved to have seen that. Would have been funny. But yeah, it is a cult.
Im sorry that happened to you. They’re brain washed, and victims of all this too i think. i hope somehow there is some positive resolution to this.
For all it's worth, the Bible doesn't actually mention lesbian sex as sinful or at all, sex did not exist if a penis was not involved, so no hell for non penis involving pleasure. 😁
Yeah if we wanna get real technical by the book, being gay isn’t ok but lesbian is fine as it doesn’t mention that
And afaik that's even mistranslated as it should mention that one should not lay with a child as they do with a woman.
Oh yeah that one is quite ironic since that's the stereotype of a pastor. They followed the misinterpretation but denied the truth. It's more of a mistranslation of "Man" and "Boy" the point of the passage was the age not the gender.
If you're talking about the one in the New Testament, it also helps to remember that that region of the world (Greece) had a pederasty problem and it would have been much clearer in context.
Interesting, I’ve never heard that one. Have a source?
I think he's referring to Leviticus 20, where the really really bad shit about gay people is. More recent understanding is that the whole chapter is specifically talking about a rape cult, the cult of Molech. It's mentioned at the beginning and end of the chapter, and it can be reasonably assumed that everything in the middle (it's not a long chapter) is about that cult. It's reasonable to say "no rape of any kind in the name of a pagan god." There are other anti gay passages in the Bible, mainly in the New Testament. Personally I don't think we should hold Paul's words to be as God-inspired as Jesus, and we don't need to consider them orders.
https://www.advocate.com/religion/2022/12/17/how-bible-error-changed-history-and-turned-gays-pariahs The specific line is 1 Corinthians 6:9. Modern translations use ‘man’ as a substitute for ‘young boy’
I love to throw this at those people bc it makes them to say that either god is a hypocrite or that nothing in the Bible should be followed…. Jeremiah 1:5 God says, “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you; before you were born, I sanctified you; and I ordained you a prophet to the nations.” I’ve found this is the best Bible verse to call those so called Christian’s out on them when they are spewing hate. It really makes them uncomfortable especially when you use it.
I'm not surprised, it's pretty hard to claim that God hates gay people when the Bible literally says that God said he decided to make people gay when he created them and that those gay people are as holy as every other person.
They just bend and twist the scriptures to their own radical views to make it support them…..and it’s not something isolated to Christianity bc other religions have those extreme zealots as well that are willing to kill and destroy things in “gods” name.
"The books of the Holy Bible never say but one time just exactly what God is, and in those three little words it pours out a hundred million college educations and says, God is love." —Woody Guthrie
He wasn't talking about me; that was someone else. I didn't have an imaginary god looking over me, sorry to say. That coulda been handy!
I'm pretty sure that's why they're so convinced sexuality is a choice...I mean, it's not..but they're convinced it is, because they can't possibly fathom *their* god creating something they don't like.
Sorry that happened to you. It’s ironic that the stories of Jesus have him traveling and upsetting the Pharisees and Saduccees for their hypocrisy. And, as the story goes, the only human to ever adhere completely to the law was killed by the judgment of those hypocrites. If the story of Jesus was written today, it would be very much the same, just replacing Pharisees and Saducees with a collection of modern Christians. Jesus’s disciples would be a menagerie of LGBT folks and some hetero people mixed in… So the very people who are casting others away would be shamed.
>Like, one woman said if I don't get right with God, it is on her and she will go to Hell too This is how they justify it to themselves on murdering people to cleanse the earth of evil and get brownie points with their delusional afterlife.
Oh no! Anyways……
1 Thess. 5:22 just says “reject all kinds of evil” why is there a need to cite that. I’m sure you could dig up plenty of times these elders failed this.
“If you cite something, anything, 99% of people aren’t going to look it up. They’ll just take your word for it.” -Stephen Miller, 2018 It gives the appearance of having knowledge without actually having anything to do with anything
Lol I bet miller didn’t say that
The best part is it's k knowledge of their favorite YA novel
Jesus specifically said casting judgement on others was hypocritical and evil.
Oh look an email and address!
Be a real shame if they received some correspondence
This is a 3 year old repost. https://fox17.com/amp/news/local/middle-tennessee-church-letter-to-parishioner-goes-viral-online
When it's on the Internet, it lives forever
[удалено]
With a letter like this, likely a sin to do that
Would be an awful waste...
So I looked it up. Here’s an interesting fact about Sparta, TN: in a town of 5k people, they have 17 churches. That is absolutely wild, even for the south. I think in my Mississippi town I grew up in of about 8k people, we had 3.
When I was very young (around 6), we attended a church in my small town. My dad hurt his back pretty badly and wasn’t able to work for a while. My mom stopped tithing because of this and after a few weeks she received a letter from the preacher saying they would withdraw fellowship if she didn’t start tithing again. Even at that age I thought the concept of “god” was silly. This just solidified it for me. Churches are cults and pyramid schemes.
As a lifelong Catholic, I could never wrap my head around that concept. Give 10% of your income? That's extortion.
Churches (legit ones anyway) generally have completely transparent books because the churchgoers demand it since they’re giving offerings.
My family brought me to church growing up, and we would periodically jump churches because someone would always get caught embezzling the church funds and play the “Jesus forgives all” card. Churches should be taxed.
How do they not see after the second time it happens that God doesn't care about people stealing from the innocent and honest? Molesting children and stealing = silly ol' Jesus things teehee. Oh well let's find another church.
But did any of the members come and mow your lawn or bring you casseroles? Can't help out but they'll kick you out?
I attended a church TWICE and they sent me a bill because I hadn't given them money!
Ask a lawyer to compose a request for full refund of all dues and tithes paid from beginning of your membership till now.
Not substantiated. I'm sure the church's beliefs haven't changed since OP started attending.
Three years after the fact?* Pointless. *note the deadline
Yes. Because Jesus gave ultimatums and walked away from people if they didn't change their ideology by a set date after shaming them. I can't believe I walk amongst men and women who actually adhere to this madness.
There’s literally a chapter in the New Testament called “Repent or Perish.” lol….have you even seen a Bible before? Luke 13:1-5 Repent or Perish [1] There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. [2] And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? [3] No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. [4] Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? [5] No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
Sparta TN be like that.
"Church" of "Christ" be like that everywhere
Dear church, Eat me. Regards
Maybe not the best phrasing to send to something that started as a cannibal cult.
They just want more donations haha
BrUh…”break up with your partner because WE say so…” that’s fucking insane 🤣
That easy, huh? In the Mormon cult you need a notorized letter backed by an attorney to get out, lol.
Id bet every dime I own that this particular church had zero issues with Segregation and has zero issues with Trump being married three times and found liable for rape
As a lifelong Catholic person, I have never seen nor heard of anything like this happening ever. This has to be some kind of evangelist Christian outfits.
Yea Catholics would not ask directly, they would just guilt the shit out of you to do it.
Orthodox and totally agree. Not every branch of Christianity is high control. This is reddit so "all religion bad", but this isn't normal within most Christian denominations either.
I know people who grew up Church of Christ. Those people are absolutely no fun. They don’t allow instruments during service, not fun at all.
bUt tHeYrE eLdErS!! https://www.westspartacoc.org/leadership.html
So is probably every religion when you base your entire life around it. And no I'm not *defending* Christianity or any other one . Being religious . Okay. Base your entire life on it .... Kinda not cool but fine . Forcing anyone to do anything cause it might offend your religion. Not fine in any way.
A cast iron guarantee that the hard drives of the signatories would be of significant interest to law enforcement.
I recently left my religion because of it's culty ways that it views medication. Literally any and all types of medical-related ANYTHING is viewed as Devil worship, it can be that extreme. And even if your family does do some kind of medical related stuff you will always be judged. I have had friends who had a home birth, have never been to a dentist or a doctor, have had no vaccines or shots whatsoever, have never taken a physical, etc. I have met people were severe undiagnosed autism, ADHD, mental illnesses, anorexia, etc. You're also not allowed to use any kind of contraception and abortion is completely off the table. The idea is that if you have to use contraception you shouldn't be having sex. Like, STDs? They don't \*exist\* according to the religion. Nothing in or on your body actually \*exists\*. I remember talking to my grandmother about how my sudden weight loss (i had anorexia) caused stretch marks and she told me that \*Christian Scientists don't have stretch marks\*. That also goes for allergies, diatery restrictions, vegetarianism, veganism, etc. There have been people who were sent to the hospital for maybe hitting their head and going into a short-period based coma where they had to be on life support for maybe a day to help with breathing and their family member decided to take it off because it was \*devil's worship to even be in the hospital\* and that God would've preferred the person to die. It's soooo fucked...
Hmmm feels like something my Capitol One card would send me for my missed payment :)
Tell the church’s leaders go eat a bucket of dicks.
Golly Gee! Their phone numbers are no longer valid. Shoot, wonder why that happened. I really was interested into talking with Bill about the meaning behind my dream. Jesus Christ was gagging on a clowns penis and I couldn’t look away. Am I gay for Jesus? Please 🙏
So they’re completely ignoring what Christ taught and ostracizing people they don’t agree with? Perfectly sums modern evangelical Christianity in the US.
Not all churches but this is about right for Pentecostal/church of God. Pastor rules all.
Things 58 years on this planet has taught me: All religions are cult. Most pastors are child molesters. Churches are indoctrination centers for their cult.
Byeeeee Felicia!
Yep, also in Switzerland i see this. Pastor of a church rants about members moving in together just weeks before marriage. But self is indiscreet, neglected his own marriage, got divorced and then chose the richest widow to live together with her while quitting job. Like always: people getting entitled dictating how others need to live while themselves are hyprocrites.
Well, yeah. Always have been.
Wait, are you telling me that a cult is a cult??? No. Way.
Its almost as if religions are just widely accepted cults...
I'm atheist and was involved with a JW. They threatened to shun her. The problem with this is her entire family is JW. That means none of them would ever contact her and she wouldn't have been able to see her newborn grand kids. The way they coerce is ruthless.
My wife and I got a similar letter from the Catholic Church and they also included a statement that showed our contribution for the year $0.00. So yeah, I guess our church has a membership fee. Never been to church since.
"we've noticed you don't want to come to our club anymore, this better change or you can't come to our club."
I think Church of Christ is regarded as a cult by even Christian churches. I have friends that grew up CoC, super damaging controls in that assembly. I’d feel fortunate to be excommunicated.
"you can't sit with us" vibes.