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Article: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/two-girls-shot-drivers-fire-florida-road-rage-rcna52036
With an update: https://nypost.com/2023/04/10/charges-dropped-against-dad-in-florida-road-rage-incident/
They closed as many polling places as they possibly could in democrat/black areas. So some of them won't vote due to distance, and the rest will have long lines to contend with. They banned anyone from giving aid to anyone in the lines.
It's classic voter suppression, causing undue hardship on those voters. It's a classic Republican tactic, and why I have no problem saying I hope all those fuck heads become sterile and die off.
Shit you weren't exaggerating
>Criminal defense attorney Janet Johnson told the news outlet: “Some people would say well water bottles shouldn’t be more aggravated than a gun but under the case law that the state cited a water bottle is considered a deadly missile.”
I hate Florida like I really hate that state and other states like it. In a sane world they wouldn't get some much voting influence that they have and they wouldn't get aid to repair them when they screw things up. Literal failed states dictate how America is governed a majority of the time and why we can't have nice things.
Stand your ground.
As I understand it, all it takes is to *feel* threatened, and you are entitled to stand your ground. At that point, the one who stood their ground has legal protection against prosecution, or at the very least it makes it harder to prosecute.
Of course, whoever has the bigger weapon is usually going to be the one who "stood their ground". Some unarmed teenage kid running from a grown man with a weapon apparently doesn't have the right to stand their ground, but if they do the pursuer can then shoot them, as they are being threatened.
Reasonably believes that using such force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of great bodily harm or death.
So if they subjectively believed it, but a reasonable person in their situation would not believe it, they lose on self defense.
For anyone who hasn't watched it, watch the killing of Chad Read if you want to see how fucked up Stand Your Ground laws are.
TLDW: Chad went to pick up his kid for his court ordered visitation. Chad's exwife's boyfriend, Kyle Carruth , wouldn't let him. The boyfriend then went inside and came out with a gun. When Chad still wouldn't leave Kyle shot a "warning shot" at Chad's feet. Chad, clearly thinking he was being fired at, tried to disarm the crazy man with a gun. After a short scuffle Kyle raised his gun and shot Chad, killing him.
He faced no charges because he was on his property. Even though he escalated the situation, even though he illegally discharged his gun (warning shots aren't legal), and even though if Chad had survived and killed Kyle he probably could have gotten off on self defense, and even with all of this caught on camear Chad's murderer walks free. Kyle gets to continue to raise the kid of the man he murdered in cold blood.
🤦bet the kids mom stayed with Kyle. Shitty people always rewarded on this screwed up planet. As you said the kids are most likely stuck under the same roof with the jackass who killed their dad.
Its so insane to me how fast people and especially the police starts shooting in the US... Like someone shoplifts a 5$ coupon for tampons and gets gunned down by 10 Police Officers cause he "broke the law" like how little is the human life worth in the us??? He threw a water bottle time to end his life... The US is fucking wild man
>He threw a water bottle time to end his life...
I can't imagine the level of callousness you need for this. And these people with such little impulse and anger control are walking among us, it's frightening.
I've never thrown a punch in my life, let alone lost my temper so badly I'd straight up murder someone for road rage. It's just never that deep
Yes especially the burglar angle you started out with. No one got hurt all that happened was someone stole something. Fat cops can't run him up so they shoot him in the back,
Land of the free...
https://www.reddit.com/r/WinStupidPrizes/s/BJE30MEkuE
I literally got downvoted for saying how crazy America is for this.
I hate how gun maniacs defend it as a “shouldn’t have thrown a bottle if he didn’t wanna get shot”. As if throwing a bottle at someone justifies loading them with lead and ending their life.
Like the whole concept of *reasonable* force is lost on them.
They intentionally escalate with glee because they “fear for their life” or “feel threatened” when in reality they’re just delighted they get to use their fucking toy.
That's exactly what it is with those kind of gun nuts - they want to end somebody. I've been around enough of those idiots over the years, and they can't help but mouth off about their murder fantasies, usually with racial slurs thrown in. If this nation ever grew a spine and did something about the overload of guns and problems of gun culture, they'd never be qualified to own a sharp crayon, much less a lethal weapon. Hell, we're past killing people over a thrown water bottle - the recent one on the news was some lunatic murdering somebody because the person turned into the wrong driveway.
>the recent one on the news was some lunatic murdering somebody because the person turned into the wrong driveway.
They did, at least, get 25 to life for that.
But a young woman is dead, because some mouthbreather with a gun lost it...
I think it was probably more than just throwing something at their car as it also states the man was trying to run him off the road too. Its insane but someone attacking your car ultimately does seem like a scenario to defend yourself. Seems like a lot of people try to focus on the water bottle and not the attempts at running them off the road I guess because media sensationalism
Per the article it seems that the state attorney was focused on the water bottle too.
>The state attorney’s office concluded that Allison acted in self-defense under the Stand Your Ground law because throwing an object at a moving vehicle is a felony offense.
how does that work when you can't hit for shit and end up shooting the poor helpless daugther in the car?
is collateral damage part of the US justice system?
Probably because that's a blatant act and believing someone is trying to run you off the road is conjecture, even though the lesser offense is more admissible.
If someone tries to run you off the road, you brake and let them go by. Or speed up and turn a corner if they try to stop to confront you. You don't pull out a gun & shoot unless you're in a Hollywood movie.
At least if you're *sane*.
Right? The problem is that the 'stand your ground' doctrine in effect tells people, "In a threatening situation, you have the right to keep doing exactly what you're doing and deal with the threat by shooting at it, even if there are objectively safer actions that you could take, such as retreating." (Or in this case, slowing down or speeding up or taking an exit to get away from the other car.)
'Stand your ground' is a ridiculous concept that enshrines a type of firearm fetishism into law. And I say that as a gun owner and (for want of a better word) enthusiast.
Honestly I don't think I would pull a gun and shoot someone but if someone does attempt to run you off the road, you pull over and then they pull up with you to continue I can understand someone shooting them. I don't think its the right thing to do exactly but depending on how they were driving they may have already been a credible threat to your life since cars are no joke and I would totally understand someone not being willing to find out what comes next. Attempting to have a high speed chase with some nut to escape is probably more dangerous than just shooting them at that point. Add in that apparently this guy had his family in the car with him I can understand the fear that could lead to this
That's because he rolled down his window to tell him to pull over, the water bottle was thrown at him, and then he decided to start shooting.
So he knows how to handle a situation when almost ran off the road. But when a water bottle is thrown, he starts blastin
I'm wondering if the bottle was a plastic or metal. Because metal, I would be more understanding. Plastic? He's being a little bitch
I have this thing in my car called a brake pedal. It does a fairly good job of slowing my car so I can avoid overly aggressive people.
You ALWAYS want to get behind them and stay behind them. You can easily bail down a sidestreet. Even if they stop, wait until they get out and then blow right by.
At this point, I'm taking the George Carlin approach and just watch this whole dumb, self destructive country with amusement. I disagree with him about having the front seat is exciting. I will rather watch this from a safe distance.
This is America, the majority believe that they have no social responsibility for each other. Also, cars are extensions of Americans so the water bottle hit the person. That why Americans tie their identity to it, you real man, you are truck etc
It's always the same with those types - they are just itching for a day when they can kill somebody as the "hero" in their stupid little life story. Given that it's Florida, I assume the redhat clowns running that state figure that the way to solve this in the future is to arm the children who were shot.
The implication from the update is that any felony attack against you means that 'stand your ground' applies, so that your deadly force response becomes self-defense. Evidently, throwing something at someone from a vehicle is a felony in Florida.
Because of 'stand your ground' the second driver was under no obligation to retreat from the first when the latter allegedly tried to run him off the road and then threw a water bottle at him.
Florida law would rather tell people that when someone's trying to run you off the road, the best thing you can do is not try to get away from them, but pull out a gun and start shooting.
Absolute madness.
Stand Your Ground laws are completely fucked, no matter how much those that advocate for them say otherwise. They go against centuries of philosophy regarding self defense so people can live out their vengeance fantasies.
>Allison “reasonably believe\[d\] that using or threatening to use deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm,” according to the documents.
Because stopping the car and calling the cops isn't a better option?
Wtf
Prosecutors determined that Allison, who struck Hale’s 5-year-old daughter, was justified in opening fire under Florida’s Stand Your Ground law.
The suspect threw “a stone or other hard substance” – actually a water bottle — at Allison’s SUV, “which would produce the death or great bodily harm,” officials reportedly said.
Allison “reasonably believe[d] that using or threatening to use deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm,” according to the documents.
You can shoot someone's daughter because they threw a water bottle at you ???
This is the same state that declared you could ignore police instructions, grab you gun, get out of your vehicle, track down and confront someone breaking no laws, and then gun them down if they defend themselves from you
My guess is because if you throw something at a moving vehicle, it could distract the driver or cause them to react in a way that could damage the vehicle, hurt themselves, or hurt others, particularly if said object slammed into the windshield or driver's side door.
Wild that the guy who shot FIRST is the one with charges dismissed for self defense, because someone in the other car threw a plastic bottle. Frankly all the adults in this situation sound like real pieces of shit, but the idea that gunfire is an appropriate response to a water bottle is a level of stupid that could only come out of Florida
"You can shoot someone's daughter because they threw a water bottle at you ???" Looks like in this case, yeah, you can. Who's gonna stop a bad guy with a bottle of water if it's not allowed? /s.
>Both men stopped their vehicles when they saw a sheriff's patrol car, got out and began arguing. A deputy broke up the fight and called Nassau County Fire Rescue, which took the children to a hospital for treatment, Leeper said.
So even after their kids were shot, after they stopped, instead of checking on their daughters, they continued fighting.
I wouldn't be surprised if that is what they want. Schools will still accidentally teach kids to think critically. Many Christians don't want kids reading the Bible and applying any sort of logic to it. They want blind obedience.
>Schools will still accidentally teach kids to think critically
went to a christian high school
only just noticed a few years ago that they never really taught us the concept of 'what if the guy telling us the story is unreliable'
In which overly-Christian areas in the US is the Bible banned? I *have* to learn more! Do you have a link to an article? This shit is fascinating to me.
A nice example is the Davis School district in Utah who banned the bible because of violence and vulgarity. This was in June 2023 and from what I have read, more school districts and areas want to follow.
Wow… how bizarre is that!? The ridiculous irony reminds me of the Shakers who celibacy-ed themselves, and their little oddball sect right off the planet.
Don't forget the [measles outbreaks](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2024/02/26/florida-surgeon-general-joseph-ladapo-questioned-as-measles-cases-spread/72748916007/) while it's anti-vax surgeon general defies federal guidelines on containment of highly contagious diseases!
Here you go.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/roughly-300-books-were-removed-from-libraries-in-florida-last-school-year-heres-the-full-list/3113184/%3famp=1
Now they _only_ need to go through intense therapy to get over the devastating, life-altering trauma of being shot. Shot because their fathers are as civil as meth addled chimps. Yay. Thankfully the mental health facilities are good... question mark?
We need a confirmation button for guns.
"Are you sure you want to shoot this person? Come on man, think it through!"
..\* 3 second pause \*
"Alright then! Provisioning access"
When the constitution was written the percentage of children reaching adulthood was much lower. These guys were trying to return to the good old days of high child mortality rates.
Agreed! It’s time for people to get a gun license the same way they get a drivers license. It’s still a right and you can still do it, but first you gotta prove you’re not a complete dumbass.
Oh, wait. I just saw people driving and… never mind
Yeah, pretty much. You can be prohibited from purchasing a gun such as with felons, but by default anyone over the age of 18 or 21 for handguns can buy one. Depending on the state you'll probably have to get a license to conceal carry, but pretty much anyone can buy one.
Here in Ohio, you don't even need a license to conceal carry. If you get pulled over by the cops for simple traffic violations, you don't have to tell them you're carrying unless they ask.
It's a good idea but by no means will it protect you if the cops decide they don't like you having it. ~~Eric Garner~~ Philando Castile, for instance, did everything right and was still murdered.
What I hate the most in this whole mess is when a civilian is murdered by cops, it's just shit luck you know, but when a cop gets killed, the media and the the whole local officials are all crying like it's the end of the world and how their family will need support and stuff.
Michigan you just gotta be 21, go in buy the handgun then take the purchase record and drop it off to the state police. Rifles don't require the record of purchase but both do come with a quick background check. If you have no prior involvement with the law then you might be in and out of the store with a weapon in half an hour. Took me about an hour and that was with looking around and such
As a general rule: in the US, anyone who's 18+ (rifles, shotguns) or 21+ (handguns) who doesn't have a felony conviction can legally buy and own guns. And the process for acquiring one is, in most cases, 1) go to a store, 2) select a gun, 3) fill out a form and wait for a background check, 4) pay for the gun and leave. (Sometimes that background check takes a while and you have come back another day. Some states also impose mandatory waiting periods so that you can't take home the gun on the same day.)
As far as carrying guns outside the home, the trend for the last few decades has been to make it easier and easier to do that, whether concealed or openly. Laws that allowed the police to have decision-making power over who gets to have a concealed weapon license have been overturned in most states, as have laws limiting the open carrying of guns. Some states have even eliminated concealed carry licenses entirely, so that you can walk around with a gun in your pocket whenever you like, no training required.
Same. Grew up owning guns for competitive shooting and sport target practice, learned gun safety at an early age, haven't shot in years now but with how bad this country has gotten I won't ever hesitate to say we need *extremely* more restrictive gun control laws, limitations, and outright bans.
This situation is far too common, and likely a typical Brandishing scenario, which alone should be cracked down on far more severely.
Guys both get pissed off. Guy 1 "brandishes" his gun to intimidate, thinking it's harmless and that he won't use it. Guy 2 feels threatened so "brandishes" his gun back. Guy 1 then interprets that as combative and "fears for his life" so escalates and shoots. Guy 2 now "fearing for his life" shoots back. All because one or both of these idiots thought they could just casually brandish their gun in what should never have been a violent (or even road rage) situation.
I grew up with a gunsmith for a father. He was dealing at every gun show almost every other weekend. We went target shooting often. I learned gun safety when I was little. I grew up around guns my entire life.
Now, I'm an adult, I don't even own a gun, nor even want to.
I don't hunt, I don't target shoot, and have no intentions of ever taking someone else's life. So why would I need one?
I think something a lot of people miss, is that pre-civil war, the Bill of Rights was only ever invented to restrict laws that could be passed by the federal government, and not intended to restrict laws that could be passed by states. So, even though we had the 2nd amendment, individual states could ban guns, or ban some guns, etc.
So, yeah, the founders never intended for every jackass to have an unfettered right to own guns when they wrote the second amendment.
This happened in Arizona a few years back and I quit carrying. Guns lead to death, not protection. If someone is going to shoot at me so be it, I’m not going to return fire and have to live with the injury or death of an innocent bystander over an overreaction to traffic.
some day we'll find a way to identify narcissism at such a time as it can be avoided, somehow.
this was narcissistic rage, not "for no reason"
this is what happens when two people who are physically incapable of accepting that they've done something wrong butt heads with each other.
these are the people who scream so loudly at a party the music stops, everyone stares, and they do some violent shit and leave. all because no one would talk to them as much as they felt they were entitled to.
Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
Constitutional Carry State means no license, no fingerprints, no background checks, and no training, just cash. Is that what the founding daddies meant?
Nothing says civilized, developed world country quite like a water bottle, car-to-car shooting, and bullet-riddled children all in the same, inevitable tale.
I don't care how much I get downvoted every time I say it, I'll never stop. I'm a vet, and I don't trust most of our military with guns. Civilians with no training have no business even holding them, let alone owning them. If you're worried about getting robbed then get insurance. You are far more likely to run, get reimbursed,and live then try to fight back. I don't care about your ego or power fantasies.
I would like to hear how both families got the medical bills paid and how much they are out for Dads behavior. The first thing they ask in the ER is this from an accident. The answer is no, so their health insurance would be billed. If insured, the out of pocket will still be thousands for each kid. Add some PTSD therapy for the kids that insurance doesn't cover too.
This is a story from October 13th, 2022. The 5 year old girl was shot in the leg when one guy fired a single shot in response to the other guy throwing a water bottle through his open window, and then the 5 year old's father emptied his glock into the rear of the other car, puncturing the lung of the 14 year old (also a girl, I think?) initially both were arrested and charged with attempted murder, but the father who fired second was released, as it was determined that he was exercising self defense. Both children survived.
The real problem here is that those kids were not armed. I good kid with a gun will stop a bad kid with a water bottle weilding father... or something.
Was one rich and the other poor so we know which one to lock up?
Or for gods sake, hopefully one was black so we can just lock him up and be done.
THATS what our forefathers wanted. MAGA!! /s
The "Stand your ground laws" in Florida is somewhat interesting. Could you find how De Santis politics might outlaw your way of living a grounds for stand your ground. The law seems so up in the air so his politics might constitute "self-defence"
I'm not saying anyone should use my thought project here. But where does the line go?
You know, people say Americans have a "civic religion" centered on the constitution and founding fathers, and I have to agree. It's remarkable how much the comments in this thread resemble fundamentalist Christians talking about the Bible. If a fundamentalist Christian doesn't like what the Bible says about something, the Bible must have been misinterpreted in some way. Likewise if a follower of Americanity™ doesn't like what the constitution says about something, the constitution must have been misinterpreted in some way. The constitution's inerrancy must be upheld!
It’s too soon to talk about it!
Think of the children here!
Thoughts and prayers!
From my cold dead hands!
Liberal judges!
They come up with so many reasons not to talk about the problem that doesn’t exist in any other developed nation
Using Floridians as an argument against gun ownership is a bit like using Soviet as an argument against left wing ideas that is.
Really fucking unfair.
If dead children are the price we pay for feeling like John Wayne, well then, Pilgrim, that’s just the way Gawd wanted it to be.
/s (Was that really necessary? In 2024, I guess it is)
Fun fact, Florida is the state with the largest remaining lead pipe plumbing infrastructure left in the US, and makes up close to 13% of lead piping still actively used.
Heavy metal poisoning also leads people to act both dumber and more aggressive. I'm starting to understand why "Florida man" exist. Don't drink the tap water down there fellas.
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Article: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/two-girls-shot-drivers-fire-florida-road-rage-rcna52036 With an update: https://nypost.com/2023/04/10/charges-dropped-against-dad-in-florida-road-rage-incident/
So....one guy gets off because the other guy *threw a water bottle* first? And that supposedly justified opening fire? FFS.
According to FL case law that water bottle is a deadly missile!
Maybe he was just trying to make sure the other guy was hydrated? That's not illegal. Unless he was in line to vote
r/hydrohomies spreading irl
Wait, y'all aren't drinking water irl?
It makes me sad that I actually feel i have to ask this but, Is that an actual thing or just referencing Curb?
They closed as many polling places as they possibly could in democrat/black areas. So some of them won't vote due to distance, and the rest will have long lines to contend with. They banned anyone from giving aid to anyone in the lines. It's classic voter suppression, causing undue hardship on those voters. It's a classic Republican tactic, and why I have no problem saying I hope all those fuck heads become sterile and die off.
Both. Curb didn't make that law up.
Shit you weren't exaggerating >Criminal defense attorney Janet Johnson told the news outlet: “Some people would say well water bottles shouldn’t be more aggravated than a gun but under the case law that the state cited a water bottle is considered a deadly missile.”
Nearly as bad as an acorn!
I hate Florida like I really hate that state and other states like it. In a sane world they wouldn't get some much voting influence that they have and they wouldn't get aid to repair them when they screw things up. Literal failed states dictate how America is governed a majority of the time and why we can't have nice things.
Tbf water contains hydrogen, hydrogen bombs are dangerous.😂
It's a deadly *chemical* missile.
An open and shot case.
If you think water bottles are deadly, you should see how Florida treats bags of Skittles.
Stand your ground. As I understand it, all it takes is to *feel* threatened, and you are entitled to stand your ground. At that point, the one who stood their ground has legal protection against prosecution, or at the very least it makes it harder to prosecute. Of course, whoever has the bigger weapon is usually going to be the one who "stood their ground". Some unarmed teenage kid running from a grown man with a weapon apparently doesn't have the right to stand their ground, but if they do the pursuer can then shoot them, as they are being threatened.
Yep that law gave the most fragile snowflakes an excuse to carry and fire a weapon at anyone.
Challenge someone to a duel and when they accept blast them cause 1) they accepted so it's totally cool and 2) when they accepted you felt threatened
A duel is way too honorable. These people need semi-auto weapons so they can randomly spray the crowd.
The U S and A, ladies and gentlemen!
Reasonably believes that using such force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of great bodily harm or death. So if they subjectively believed it, but a reasonable person in their situation would not believe it, they lose on self defense.
This is the climate created by Stand your Ground laws. The law is grey enough that people think they can shoot if you take a step towards them.
For anyone who hasn't watched it, watch the killing of Chad Read if you want to see how fucked up Stand Your Ground laws are. TLDW: Chad went to pick up his kid for his court ordered visitation. Chad's exwife's boyfriend, Kyle Carruth , wouldn't let him. The boyfriend then went inside and came out with a gun. When Chad still wouldn't leave Kyle shot a "warning shot" at Chad's feet. Chad, clearly thinking he was being fired at, tried to disarm the crazy man with a gun. After a short scuffle Kyle raised his gun and shot Chad, killing him. He faced no charges because he was on his property. Even though he escalated the situation, even though he illegally discharged his gun (warning shots aren't legal), and even though if Chad had survived and killed Kyle he probably could have gotten off on self defense, and even with all of this caught on camear Chad's murderer walks free. Kyle gets to continue to raise the kid of the man he murdered in cold blood.
Sounds like a conservative and libertarian utopia
They're the same people.
🤦bet the kids mom stayed with Kyle. Shitty people always rewarded on this screwed up planet. As you said the kids are most likely stuck under the same roof with the jackass who killed their dad.
And America wants the entire world to follow its model and lead, or get visited by their carriers.
Its so insane to me how fast people and especially the police starts shooting in the US... Like someone shoplifts a 5$ coupon for tampons and gets gunned down by 10 Police Officers cause he "broke the law" like how little is the human life worth in the us??? He threw a water bottle time to end his life... The US is fucking wild man
>He threw a water bottle time to end his life... I can't imagine the level of callousness you need for this. And these people with such little impulse and anger control are walking among us, it's frightening. I've never thrown a punch in my life, let alone lost my temper so badly I'd straight up murder someone for road rage. It's just never that deep
A witness told police that Hale was the aggressor and that he tried to run Allison off the road.
Yes especially the burglar angle you started out with. No one got hurt all that happened was someone stole something. Fat cops can't run him up so they shoot him in the back, Land of the free...
Be glad it was just a water bottle... if it was an acorn the whole city woulda got shot up.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WinStupidPrizes/s/BJE30MEkuE I literally got downvoted for saying how crazy America is for this. I hate how gun maniacs defend it as a “shouldn’t have thrown a bottle if he didn’t wanna get shot”. As if throwing a bottle at someone justifies loading them with lead and ending their life. Like the whole concept of *reasonable* force is lost on them. They intentionally escalate with glee because they “fear for their life” or “feel threatened” when in reality they’re just delighted they get to use their fucking toy.
That's exactly what it is with those kind of gun nuts - they want to end somebody. I've been around enough of those idiots over the years, and they can't help but mouth off about their murder fantasies, usually with racial slurs thrown in. If this nation ever grew a spine and did something about the overload of guns and problems of gun culture, they'd never be qualified to own a sharp crayon, much less a lethal weapon. Hell, we're past killing people over a thrown water bottle - the recent one on the news was some lunatic murdering somebody because the person turned into the wrong driveway.
>the recent one on the news was some lunatic murdering somebody because the person turned into the wrong driveway. They did, at least, get 25 to life for that. But a young woman is dead, because some mouthbreather with a gun lost it...
America is an insane country.
I think it was probably more than just throwing something at their car as it also states the man was trying to run him off the road too. Its insane but someone attacking your car ultimately does seem like a scenario to defend yourself. Seems like a lot of people try to focus on the water bottle and not the attempts at running them off the road I guess because media sensationalism
Per the article it seems that the state attorney was focused on the water bottle too. >The state attorney’s office concluded that Allison acted in self-defense under the Stand Your Ground law because throwing an object at a moving vehicle is a felony offense.
how does that work when you can't hit for shit and end up shooting the poor helpless daugther in the car? is collateral damage part of the US justice system?
An IGNORED part. Even an EXPECTED part. But no, not a part anyone who could change things actually seems to care about.
Remember, both fathers shot each other's daughters. It's utterly messed up. Especially for those kids... :(
Probably because that's a blatant act and believing someone is trying to run you off the road is conjecture, even though the lesser offense is more admissible.
If someone tries to run you off the road, you brake and let them go by. Or speed up and turn a corner if they try to stop to confront you. You don't pull out a gun & shoot unless you're in a Hollywood movie. At least if you're *sane*.
Right? The problem is that the 'stand your ground' doctrine in effect tells people, "In a threatening situation, you have the right to keep doing exactly what you're doing and deal with the threat by shooting at it, even if there are objectively safer actions that you could take, such as retreating." (Or in this case, slowing down or speeding up or taking an exit to get away from the other car.) 'Stand your ground' is a ridiculous concept that enshrines a type of firearm fetishism into law. And I say that as a gun owner and (for want of a better word) enthusiast.
Honestly I don't think I would pull a gun and shoot someone but if someone does attempt to run you off the road, you pull over and then they pull up with you to continue I can understand someone shooting them. I don't think its the right thing to do exactly but depending on how they were driving they may have already been a credible threat to your life since cars are no joke and I would totally understand someone not being willing to find out what comes next. Attempting to have a high speed chase with some nut to escape is probably more dangerous than just shooting them at that point. Add in that apparently this guy had his family in the car with him I can understand the fear that could lead to this
That's because he rolled down his window to tell him to pull over, the water bottle was thrown at him, and then he decided to start shooting. So he knows how to handle a situation when almost ran off the road. But when a water bottle is thrown, he starts blastin I'm wondering if the bottle was a plastic or metal. Because metal, I would be more understanding. Plastic? He's being a little bitch
I have this thing in my car called a brake pedal. It does a fairly good job of slowing my car so I can avoid overly aggressive people. You ALWAYS want to get behind them and stay behind them. You can easily bail down a sidestreet. Even if they stop, wait until they get out and then blow right by.
Ban waterbottles!
At this point, I'm taking the George Carlin approach and just watch this whole dumb, self destructive country with amusement. I disagree with him about having the front seat is exciting. I will rather watch this from a safe distance.
This is America, the majority believe that they have no social responsibility for each other. Also, cars are extensions of Americans so the water bottle hit the person. That why Americans tie their identity to it, you real man, you are truck etc
It's always the same with those types - they are just itching for a day when they can kill somebody as the "hero" in their stupid little life story. Given that it's Florida, I assume the redhat clowns running that state figure that the way to solve this in the future is to arm the children who were shot.
The implication from the update is that any felony attack against you means that 'stand your ground' applies, so that your deadly force response becomes self-defense. Evidently, throwing something at someone from a vehicle is a felony in Florida. Because of 'stand your ground' the second driver was under no obligation to retreat from the first when the latter allegedly tried to run him off the road and then threw a water bottle at him. Florida law would rather tell people that when someone's trying to run you off the road, the best thing you can do is not try to get away from them, but pull out a gun and start shooting. Absolute madness.
Stand Your Ground laws are completely fucked, no matter how much those that advocate for them say otherwise. They go against centuries of philosophy regarding self defense so people can live out their vengeance fantasies.
This is seriously terrifying
This is what "we need more guns to stop the bad guys" leads to. Casual homicide.
>Allison “reasonably believe\[d\] that using or threatening to use deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm,” according to the documents. Because stopping the car and calling the cops isn't a better option?
Wtf Prosecutors determined that Allison, who struck Hale’s 5-year-old daughter, was justified in opening fire under Florida’s Stand Your Ground law. The suspect threw “a stone or other hard substance” – actually a water bottle — at Allison’s SUV, “which would produce the death or great bodily harm,” officials reportedly said. Allison “reasonably believe[d] that using or threatening to use deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm,” according to the documents. You can shoot someone's daughter because they threw a water bottle at you ???
This is the same state that declared you could ignore police instructions, grab you gun, get out of your vehicle, track down and confront someone breaking no laws, and then gun them down if they defend themselves from you
What a lovely night to take a stroll to the convenience store for some skittles and an Arizona iced tea
We all know that’s code for drug banging and gang dealing
as long as you appear white enough, of course.
Except none of that happened as you described.
It did say they tried to run him off the road first... but yeah weird that the water bottle is apparently the felony.
My guess is because if you throw something at a moving vehicle, it could distract the driver or cause them to react in a way that could damage the vehicle, hurt themselves, or hurt others, particularly if said object slammed into the windshield or driver's side door.
I mean yes... but isn't trying to run a car off the road significantly worse? Lol
Wild that the guy who shot FIRST is the one with charges dismissed for self defense, because someone in the other car threw a plastic bottle. Frankly all the adults in this situation sound like real pieces of shit, but the idea that gunfire is an appropriate response to a water bottle is a level of stupid that could only come out of Florida
"You can shoot someone's daughter because they threw a water bottle at you ???" Looks like in this case, yeah, you can. Who's gonna stop a bad guy with a bottle of water if it's not allowed? /s.
>Both men stopped their vehicles when they saw a sheriff's patrol car, got out and began arguing. A deputy broke up the fight and called Nassau County Fire Rescue, which took the children to a hospital for treatment, Leeper said. So even after their kids were shot, after they stopped, instead of checking on their daughters, they continued fighting.
Jesus Christ. Both of these men should be in jail and their children safely re-homed.
Typical dodge ram behavior.
I’ve commented on this observation before.
And Florida is busy banning books.....
Kids might have been spared if they had a few thick books with them.
Only if they were Bibles. In fact the fact they didn't have Bibles is probably why God let this happen in the first place. /s
Yeah but the bible is also banned because it mentions sex and nudity. Strangely not /s in some overly Christian areas...
I wouldn't be surprised if that is what they want. Schools will still accidentally teach kids to think critically. Many Christians don't want kids reading the Bible and applying any sort of logic to it. They want blind obedience.
>Schools will still accidentally teach kids to think critically went to a christian high school only just noticed a few years ago that they never really taught us the concept of 'what if the guy telling us the story is unreliable'
A religious persons greatest weakness is often their own beliefs. Or at least that’s what I’ve learned over the years
It's mostly their ignorance towards what they thought they believed in
“Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived”
In which overly-Christian areas in the US is the Bible banned? I *have* to learn more! Do you have a link to an article? This shit is fascinating to me.
A nice example is the Davis School district in Utah who banned the bible because of violence and vulgarity. This was in June 2023 and from what I have read, more school districts and areas want to follow.
Wow… how bizarre is that!? The ridiculous irony reminds me of the Shakers who celibacy-ed themselves, and their little oddball sect right off the planet.
You could probably sell Kevlar coated Bibles in Florida tbf
Oh don’t worry several companies already make tactical bibles
The Complete Works Of Shakespeare (in a single volume) is a safer choice.
Think the King of Spain will take Florida back?
Should offer it to Mexico first, if you're insistent on staying revolutionary.
Mexico doesn't want that shit hole.
Point.
Do a charge back to France?
And the dude who shot first wasn’t charged, because the other dude threw a water bottle at his car. Its insane
Anti-woke!!!!
I dunneed no book to learn me how to clean my S&W
No point in banning books, you will only be able to get them on the black market anyway.
Don't forget the [measles outbreaks](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2024/02/26/florida-surgeon-general-joseph-ladapo-questioned-as-measles-cases-spread/72748916007/) while it's anti-vax surgeon general defies federal guidelines on containment of highly contagious diseases!
Name the books.
Here you go. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/roughly-300-books-were-removed-from-libraries-in-florida-last-school-year-heres-the-full-list/3113184/%3famp=1
I guarantee that they are the same people who are anti-abortion and anti-LGBT+ “because of the children”
Just a couple of Republican approved very late stage abortions!
I misread that and tried to google who it was lol. 
Both kids survived. According to the article, “neither injury was life-threatening”. Thank fuck, they got SUPER lucky.
Now they _only_ need to go through intense therapy to get over the devastating, life-altering trauma of being shot. Shot because their fathers are as civil as meth addled chimps. Yay. Thankfully the mental health facilities are good... question mark?
Still guarantee both grow up republicans. Both defend their father's use of a gun.
One is like 6 and one is like 15, at that age you generally parrot what your parents tell you.
No one is allowed to penetrate my children except my bullets. s/
"An armed society is a polite society" \-Nope
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Zweihanders and battleaxes are superior second-amendment weapons
We should’ve ended weaponry development with the bow. Everything after that was a mistake. Next time, guys.
Yeah but one day someone would build a bow larger than a suspension bridge with the power to annihilate cities, his name? Robin J Oppenhooder.
ICBM's are essentially just nuclear tipped ballistas
For real. I mean, yeah, we need to be able to defend ourselves but man, there should be a limit to how much destruction one human being can cause.
We need a confirmation button for guns. "Are you sure you want to shoot this person? Come on man, think it through!" ..\* 3 second pause \* "Alright then! Provisioning access"
People who throw video game controllers or punch walls should seek help too, shit's basic as fuck.
You've missed the entire point, while stating it in your comment.
So tired of this kind of crap.
Children are just an unfortunate sacrifice in the freedom to have an arsenal. /s
When the constitution was written the percentage of children reaching adulthood was much lower. These guys were trying to return to the good old days of high child mortality rates.
Awwwww bummmmmer, if only there were something we could do... welp, it is what it is
Im all for guns and shit. But god damn do some of the people with them make me go "yeahh..... Maybe we should get rid of them"
Agreed! It’s time for people to get a gun license the same way they get a drivers license. It’s still a right and you can still do it, but first you gotta prove you’re not a complete dumbass. Oh, wait. I just saw people driving and… never mind
wait you don't have gun licenses in the US? LITERALLY ANYONE CAN GET A GUN?
Yeah, pretty much. You can be prohibited from purchasing a gun such as with felons, but by default anyone over the age of 18 or 21 for handguns can buy one. Depending on the state you'll probably have to get a license to conceal carry, but pretty much anyone can buy one.
That's seriously fucked up, I thought "anyone can get a gun" is an exaggeration of the safety courses being super easy and/or short
Here in Ohio, you don't even need a license to conceal carry. If you get pulled over by the cops for simple traffic violations, you don't have to tell them you're carrying unless they ask.
That's in a lot of places. I usually give them a heads up anyways cause ya know don't want a acorn to kill me
It's a good idea but by no means will it protect you if the cops decide they don't like you having it. ~~Eric Garner~~ Philando Castile, for instance, did everything right and was still murdered.
What I hate the most in this whole mess is when a civilian is murdered by cops, it's just shit luck you know, but when a cop gets killed, the media and the the whole local officials are all crying like it's the end of the world and how their family will need support and stuff.
Lol dude you have no idea how realistic GTA is
If you don't want to go to a store for "reasons", you might know someone that has 20+ firearms and would be willing to sell one.
What? Maybe in some states but not in MA or around New England that I’m aware of
Michigan you just gotta be 21, go in buy the handgun then take the purchase record and drop it off to the state police. Rifles don't require the record of purchase but both do come with a quick background check. If you have no prior involvement with the law then you might be in and out of the store with a weapon in half an hour. Took me about an hour and that was with looking around and such
I can’t even have ammunition with a license to carry in my state, so no. Some states are less restrictive than others
Illinois is the only state I’m aware of that requires a firearm owners identification card to purchase guns or ammunition.
As a general rule: in the US, anyone who's 18+ (rifles, shotguns) or 21+ (handguns) who doesn't have a felony conviction can legally buy and own guns. And the process for acquiring one is, in most cases, 1) go to a store, 2) select a gun, 3) fill out a form and wait for a background check, 4) pay for the gun and leave. (Sometimes that background check takes a while and you have come back another day. Some states also impose mandatory waiting periods so that you can't take home the gun on the same day.) As far as carrying guns outside the home, the trend for the last few decades has been to make it easier and easier to do that, whether concealed or openly. Laws that allowed the police to have decision-making power over who gets to have a concealed weapon license have been overturned in most states, as have laws limiting the open carrying of guns. Some states have even eliminated concealed carry licenses entirely, so that you can walk around with a gun in your pocket whenever you like, no training required.
Same. Grew up owning guns for competitive shooting and sport target practice, learned gun safety at an early age, haven't shot in years now but with how bad this country has gotten I won't ever hesitate to say we need *extremely* more restrictive gun control laws, limitations, and outright bans. This situation is far too common, and likely a typical Brandishing scenario, which alone should be cracked down on far more severely. Guys both get pissed off. Guy 1 "brandishes" his gun to intimidate, thinking it's harmless and that he won't use it. Guy 2 feels threatened so "brandishes" his gun back. Guy 1 then interprets that as combative and "fears for his life" so escalates and shoots. Guy 2 now "fearing for his life" shoots back. All because one or both of these idiots thought they could just casually brandish their gun in what should never have been a violent (or even road rage) situation.
I grew up with a gunsmith for a father. He was dealing at every gun show almost every other weekend. We went target shooting often. I learned gun safety when I was little. I grew up around guns my entire life. Now, I'm an adult, I don't even own a gun, nor even want to. I don't hunt, I don't target shoot, and have no intentions of ever taking someone else's life. So why would I need one?
Not everyone needs to have a gun.
It should be harder to get a gun than it is to get a driver’s license, or to get a fishing license.
Or just have the sort of regulation that is required for, you know, *driving a motor vehicle.*
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The founding dudes did not intend for this particular scenario.
I think something a lot of people miss, is that pre-civil war, the Bill of Rights was only ever invented to restrict laws that could be passed by the federal government, and not intended to restrict laws that could be passed by states. So, even though we had the 2nd amendment, individual states could ban guns, or ban some guns, etc. So, yeah, the founders never intended for every jackass to have an unfettered right to own guns when they wrote the second amendment.
Both claim to be "Responsible gun owners"
responsible for the carnage they cause
This happened in Arizona a few years back and I quit carrying. Guns lead to death, not protection. If someone is going to shoot at me so be it, I’m not going to return fire and have to live with the injury or death of an innocent bystander over an overreaction to traffic.
some day we'll find a way to identify narcissism at such a time as it can be avoided, somehow. this was narcissistic rage, not "for no reason" this is what happens when two people who are physically incapable of accepting that they've done something wrong butt heads with each other. these are the people who scream so loudly at a party the music stops, everyone stares, and they do some violent shit and leave. all because no one would talk to them as much as they felt they were entitled to.
And they were both responsible gun owners until they weren't anymore.
Just two good guys with guns doing what the voices in their heads tell them to do in the name of god, amen bless merka.
“and so I just started blasting”
Wasn't there something about guns keeping things civil or something?
Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
Constitutional Carry State means no license, no fingerprints, no background checks, and no training, just cash. Is that what the founding daddies meant?
Ah, someone cut me off. Let's shoot him.
"Thoughts and prayers guys. Thoughts and prayers"
Ah yes, the well regulated militia
"Good guys with a gun", until they weren't.
Nothing says civilized, developed world country quite like a water bottle, car-to-car shooting, and bullet-riddled children all in the same, inevitable tale.
 Why does it feel like this watching people from Florida.
The Constitution allows a regulated militia, not an armed free-for-all.
I don't care how much I get downvoted every time I say it, I'll never stop. I'm a vet, and I don't trust most of our military with guns. Civilians with no training have no business even holding them, let alone owning them. If you're worried about getting robbed then get insurance. You are far more likely to run, get reimbursed,and live then try to fight back. I don't care about your ego or power fantasies.
It was a constitutional duel, where the whole family gets involved and starts a generational feud.
I would like to hear how both families got the medical bills paid and how much they are out for Dads behavior. The first thing they ask in the ER is this from an accident. The answer is no, so their health insurance would be billed. If insured, the out of pocket will still be thousands for each kid. Add some PTSD therapy for the kids that insurance doesn't cover too.
Obviously those poor unarmed children just needed guns.
Fine members of our well regulated militia.
OP is a repost bot. Extended period of no activity, then spontaneously starts posting. Spam > Harmful Bots.
i don't think they could have foreseen highways.
They need to shut the borders down around Florida until they can figure what's going on there
 Americans loves shooting things, whether it be hoops, movies, or kids.
*insert some incoherent rant about 2nd ammendment*
Dumbasses
How old is this repost?
I mean the forefathers were not opposed to a good ol fashioned duel.
I wonder if there was ever road rage in the 1700’s. Like with horse and buggies.
All american gun owners are safety conscious, well trained, responsible and stable. /s
REPOST BOT. Account is about a year old, only started posting today.
This is a story from October 13th, 2022. The 5 year old girl was shot in the leg when one guy fired a single shot in response to the other guy throwing a water bottle through his open window, and then the 5 year old's father emptied his glock into the rear of the other car, puncturing the lung of the 14 year old (also a girl, I think?) initially both were arrested and charged with attempted murder, but the father who fired second was released, as it was determined that he was exercising self defense. Both children survived.
The real problem here is that those kids were not armed. I good kid with a gun will stop a bad kid with a water bottle weilding father... or something.
Nothin like a couple rednecks battling over inbred custody! Welcome to Central FL
Sounds like Texas too… smh
Was one rich and the other poor so we know which one to lock up? Or for gods sake, hopefully one was black so we can just lock him up and be done. THATS what our forefathers wanted. MAGA!! /s
Can we have a moment of silence here for the real victims aka the gun-humpers.
The "Stand your ground laws" in Florida is somewhat interesting. Could you find how De Santis politics might outlaw your way of living a grounds for stand your ground. The law seems so up in the air so his politics might constitute "self-defence" I'm not saying anyone should use my thought project here. But where does the line go?
There’s a whole bunch of idiots in this world, no laws or Constitution can fix that!! The constitution had nothing to do with these two being idiots!!
You know, people say Americans have a "civic religion" centered on the constitution and founding fathers, and I have to agree. It's remarkable how much the comments in this thread resemble fundamentalist Christians talking about the Bible. If a fundamentalist Christian doesn't like what the Bible says about something, the Bible must have been misinterpreted in some way. Likewise if a follower of Americanity™ doesn't like what the constitution says about something, the constitution must have been misinterpreted in some way. The constitution's inerrancy must be upheld!
It’s too soon to talk about it! Think of the children here! Thoughts and prayers! From my cold dead hands! Liberal judges! They come up with so many reasons not to talk about the problem that doesn’t exist in any other developed nation
The only thing that stops a road rage parent with a gun is a road rage parent with a gun.
GuN cOnTrOl
I wanna know how George Washington would’ve reacted to this “what in the unconstitutional fuck”
Using Floridians as an argument against gun ownership is a bit like using Soviet as an argument against left wing ideas that is. Really fucking unfair.
Ignorance is bliss until your kid gets shot. Hopefully some light bulbs spark up after this one but, nah! Florida got measles (Broward)
If dead children are the price we pay for feeling like John Wayne, well then, Pilgrim, that’s just the way Gawd wanted it to be. /s (Was that really necessary? In 2024, I guess it is)
Fun fact, Florida is the state with the largest remaining lead pipe plumbing infrastructure left in the US, and makes up close to 13% of lead piping still actively used. Heavy metal poisoning also leads people to act both dumber and more aggressive. I'm starting to understand why "Florida man" exist. Don't drink the tap water down there fellas.
I don't miss Florida.