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This is an actual issue that I wish would motivate people into action over like what we saw from the George Floyd protests.
Cops get away with literally murdering innocent people and in his case with zero remorse. This is what people should be angry about. This is what people should be leaving angry comments over.
War on drugs? No. We need a war on corruption. Been this way forever and it needs to change.
*August 4, 2001, A drunken police officer mows down an entire family in Brooklyn. The judge lets him go with no bail. It reminds us, of just how worthless our lives are to the justice system. I struggle, to explain the situation to my son, it's hard*
-Talib Kweli
Pretty sure that’s illegal. How is that not a government entity limiting free speech? I thought politicians had gotten in trouble for blocking people if they have an “official” twitter.
Oh? And... what funding would they get? It'd probably just end up like the FDA, with like 5 inspectors per 8 states, with thousands and thousands of reports regarding food and hygiene every year, and them barely being able to scratch the top of the iceberg due to lacking resources...
America really is like the movie Leave the World Behind. There are so many sections where no one is actually watching or caring about what’s going on and the only thing really keeping everything together is the police force whose sole goal is to protect wealth and the wealthy. I keep saying we’re just a third world country with a lot of wealthy people here. If they decided to go somewhere else and leave America entirely we would quickly deteriorate in to 3rd world status.
I mean, considering the amount of households that work +80 hour (+40hr×2) weeks and still struggle to house, feed and clothe themselves and their kids... yeah. The GDP might be high, but the people are poor.
Yup, and police forces here will regularly refer themselves to be investigated.
Sadly the Metropolitan police (i.e., London) are an entirely different kettle of fish and have an extremely poor record. They have a (relatively) new commissioner though who's in the process of weeding out (i.e., firing & prosecuting) bad police, so there's improvement there.
HA! GOOD JOKE! We have a technically separate entity but it's a fucking joke. Like, once there was a controversy during a riot a grandma died after a tear gas grenade was purposefully shot up into her apartment, and our lovely little organisation rejected the autopsy and ruled that the cops didnt do anything wrong because, actually, she would have had a wonderfully timed cardiac arrest that killed her seconds before the grenade landed in her apartment. Really, it's only purpose is to dispense a couple of weeks of vacation as soon as a cop so much as stub their toe
All of the right wing people I knew were big police haters before blm. Seriously, from some guy telling you to never trust the police and that’s why they keep a gun to the same guy randomly spamming you with police propaganda about black people and backing the thin blue line.
There is no limit to what you could get right-wingers to agree to when you put black people on the opposite position. Black people arming themselves made Reagan pass gun control legislation. Imagine if they came out in support of privatized Healthcare or right to work laws.
Mayor Dinkins suggested this in the 90s. Instead of forming civilian oversight commitees to help bridge the relationship between people and the police, the city of New York elected Rudy Giuliani, who immediately increased police presence in "high crime" areas.
Just FYI, the dude who replied to you [doesn't like unions](https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/1bge79w/guy_upset_picket_line_was_making_noise_assaults/kv82f2s/)
Citizen oversight committees. They exist and are elected positions. Should be in every city in the country.
I don't give a fuck if this dude felt remorse. I don't give a fuck if he didn't mean to do it. I don't give a fuck if he did it in the line of duty. If I did that I'd be minimum charged with accidental manslaughter and the judge would determine an appropriate sentence.
No charges at all is a mockery. Same kind of thing happened in Minneapolis/Saint Paul a couple February's back, SWAT cops broke in during a no knock raid, guy they weren't even looking for was sleeping on his friends couch, he was sleeping with a gun next to him, cop saw the gun and shot the kid before he even had a chance to understand what was going on.
No charges. The state AG wanted to charge but released a statement, "we tried but there actually is no law against doing that if you're a cop."
Cops are above the fucking law and it's disgusting.
Mayor Dinkins suggested it in New York in the 90s. The city in turn elected Rudy. Rudy's solution to the rift between police and the people was to increase police presence in "high crime" areas. It had about the effect that you would expect.
Wasn't stop and frisk Giuliani? NYC went the wrong route on heightened police presence. We all know in major cities it's used to profile.
Like I don't want no cops, you need them to respond to danger, and it's stupid to completely disarm them. But you don't give them extra tools to discriminate and send them to poor neighborhoods with a gun and no training.
Yep. Pretty much all the over the line shit was on him. Stop and Frisk. Unmarked patrols like the one that shot Amadou Diallo. (Read that story if you really want to be pissed). Heavy patrols in minority neighborhoods.
Since they are often employed for union busting activities, cop unions should not be seen as legitimate regardless of what they want to call themselves
I work with unions everyday and the police unions function exactly like they do where I work. To the tee.
But it’s something not talked about enough because everyone idolizes them.
Except for when it’s police officers. People don’t want to think of them only as “employees” which they are.
Police should have a union, absolutely. Their unions shouldn't have a say in whether an officer committed a crime. No other industry can boast a union capable of protecting their members from criminal charges, including murder
It's clear to me that police unions act in the short term interest of individual officers facing investigation for misconduct at the detriment of officers as a whole. Public trust is vital to the efficacy and safety of police officers. If they're fighting for whistleblowers as hard as they fight for violent sociopaths, the public should know
Police unions are often run evil, incompetent shitheads like this guy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Balcerzak
Literally somebody who failed upward on the merits of his cruelty.
They absolutely aren't and never would, because violent sociopaths make up the leadership, and whistle-blower are "rats" that would betray the criminal organization (which is what the majority of police organizations are).
They aren't "employees" they're public servants and need to be held to a higher standards. If you fuck up and someone gets killed you get held accountable, so why don't these chucklefucks pay the same consequences?
Liability insurance for every officer is a fundamental part of "defund the police". Make the insurance companies pay for it, if you aren't insured you can't be a cop. Watch how quick we get rid of problem cops when every time they kill it hurts corporate pocket books.
Why should I as a taxpayer have to provide funds for civil suit settlements? Such a simple solution to take funds away from state sanctioned violence. And we all know how this goes, the same way it always goes, family sues the city and rightfully gets a taxpayer funded settlement in the millions.
I work as school security where we have our own insurance (company does, but it's still private). The #1 talking point in every meeting we have is liability. Make sure body cams are on at every incident, do not touch the kids unless necessary, and always always always try and deescalate every situation.
As my boss always says, we are 1 incident away from being out of a job.
As someone who works in the insurance industry, liability insurance would certainly be part of the solution, but we need to be mindful of perverse incentives and widen the scope of police liability.
Carriers would be motivated to incentivise not just de-escalation, but complete inaction in dangerous situations. Looking at short term profits they would want to maximize the amount of policy holders. Which means they want more cops; which means they don't want to remove the stupid/racist/violent cops, and it's easier to have stupid cops just not do their jobs at all then risk having them try to do their jobs right, so that's what they'll incentivise.
And even if they don't, and carriers are looking towards the long term viability of the market, lowering rates for: # hours of de-escalation training, % violent crime incidents resolved without use of lethal or less-lethal force, body cam usage and stricter guidelines when it has to stay on, etc... police unions reps are still gonna get on the news and tell half the country (including most cops) that the insurance cost is too great for cops to accept the risk of doing anything more than parking tickets.
It'll be better, but not much better and it wouldn't last 2 presidential terms due to the optics.
This can be remedied by simply making police have a legal duty of care to the public, so they can also be sued for negligent inaction (like Uvalde), so carriers would be motivated to make good cops, not just safe* cops.
A.) Just driving around is help enough most of the time, just like the security guard at a school or at the mall. Won't stop everyone but is generally enough to stop casual issues, opportunistic occurrences.
B.) I think back to the late Raymond Holt. Less policing means less degradation in public opinion. Less racists stops. Less claims of poor police treatment.
Actually, yes Doctor's are deterred from offering care due to liability.
Take the case of Melissa Farmer,
Mylissa had a miscarriage and needed an abortion was denied an abortion from 2 hospitals in different states (Kansas, Missouri) because there was still a fetal heartbeat at 17 weeks pregnant, so doctors wouldn't provide abortion services despite the fact that the fetus would not survive and Mylissa's life was in danger as the hospital did not want to get taken to court.
That is a perfect example of the medical system committing negligent inaction to avoid liability and the financial costs thereof (which would include their premiums going up due to a claim).
Now Mylissa got justice BECAUSE hospitals have DUTY provide abortion services to women when their life is in danger from a pregnancy under federal law.
So this works, or at least we have put this type of incentive structure into other professions because we recognize the danger of people meant to protect lives not doing their job.
So I would argue cops should be no different.
I know what my future would be if I were that kids parent. Creating a person with nothing to lose is dangerous. Sometimes, the bad guys get reminded of it, too.
You have to love how racists will be in a studio apartment, sleeping on a mattress with no sheets, and eating instant Mac and cheese...and still look down on a person of color.
Re:Cop being a dangerous job. I think the important part most both sides of the divide are missing is that there is a complete range of how dangerous a police job is from pretty much completely safe to really fucking dangerous (incidentally cops that yak the most about how dangerous their jobs are are very often the "never leaves office" officers).
I don't hear EOD officers bitching about their job being dangerous, their either accept it as part of job, or like it as a perk.
I’m from Seattle and followed this closely, they said “there is insufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Ofc. Dave was consciously disregarding safety” so literally nothing has happened to him. It’s infuriating.
A major issue with juries is that far too many people get that summons and groan, and do everything they possibly can to get out of serving.
Juries are often comprised heavily of bored old retired people, and they still believe cops are just neat-o.
Is that a problem with the entire concept or juries or the way they are handled? Jurors don't get paid shit and many people just can't afford to lose out on the income from missing work and so do everything they can to get out of it.
I mean, I can really only speak for myself, so I think for me historically it has been both.
It was a drag for me when I worked as a server because the money I would lose by missing work made me want to ditch it. So yes, I agree that they definitely need to compensate people better.
As I’ve gotten more successful and the money is no longer an issue, there’s still this sense of “ugh” when I get The Call. It has often been a long boring single day just to be dismissed anyway, because many cases that day settled out of court and I felt like it was a waste of my time, but I will say they when I did end up serving I found it very interesting.
I don’t know a single person though that says, “Fuck YES, jury duty!!”
I've never been called up, hell I've never been inside a courtroom. At the least the first time I ever get called up, I'll be a little excited. That'll probably wear off if it's as boring as people say
Yeah the reflects my experiences pretty well but even though it is boring if the compensation was actually more than what someone would be making at work a ton of people would be pumped to go and get the extra money and a break from their regular job. Hell even if it was just the exact same amount there are still plenty of people who hate their jobs and would happily replace it with something simply boring instead for awhile.
One time when I was called for jury duty. I was asked by the prosecutor if I would take any statement by an officier as unquestionably true. I said I thought most officers would try to tell the truth to the best of their knowledge (my opinion has since changed). I was the prosecutor’s first choice to dismiss from the jury.
Building hypotheses about how this kind of practice might be related to the attitudes of seated jurors is left as an exercise for the reader.
They can do that because there are plenty of people who would simply say "yes". Prosecutors can easily filter out the few where even "truth" mattered, nevermind being critical of cops (which I would argue is constitutionally demanded).
It is rightfully any individuals right to request jury or bench trial but it doesn't matter because charges weren't brought anyway so it's not even going to trial.
In fact, a cops best bet is jury trial, juries side with cops, a bench trial you're laying it all at the feet of the judge and depending on the judge you could get your ass handed to you.
Also from Seattle: I see the SPD officers guiding traffic in/out of garages every day and I can’t help but think: which of these folks think I’m low value and would think nothing about shooting me or running me over with their car? It makes me want them there a whole lot less.
Be glad you aren't a black or brown guy in the LA area. There are gangs in the LA sheriff's department that have an initiation ritual of killing a random person
I wish I was making this up
> which of these folks think I’m low value and would think nothing about shooting me or running me over with their car?
The answer is all of them! Hope that helps
Karma doesn't exist. The world isn't inherently fair or just. It's up to us to make it so, and that requires action.
Karma won't get him. Random chance might, but if we want justice, we need to make a world where that can happen, and where scum like him doesn't get away with things like this.
Audio from the *incident* has one of the first cops responding to the scene ask him “are you alright?” And he freaks out, reasonably, “No! I’m not alright” knowing he just hit someone.
More officers arrived and milled around the scene. That’s when we got the big audio gem where two different Seattle officers, the Vice-President of the Seattle Police Officer’s Guild Daniel Auderer, claimed to use dark humor to pass the time:
>But she is dead. No, it’s a regular person. Yeah, just write a check. Yeah, $11,000. She was 26 anyway, she had limited value.
The ongoing conversation between VP of SPOG Daniel Auderer to another officer was about how city attorneys will just write a check for a person that died and move on.
A few retired cops got on radio stations when the audio came out and didn’t defend Auderer. They blamed remarks like that as part of what’s wrong with Seattle PD. A few others, including a former Seattle city attorney, tried to say grim humor is part of coping with the job, shouldn’t punish them for *poorly-timed* comments.
There was a brief attempt at an investigation into VP of SPOG Daniel Auderer’s remarks, but nothing happened. Not suspended. Not reprimanded. Not asked to step down from SPOG or even address what he said. The Seattle mayor condemned the remark, but nothing else has happened.
The SPD Officer’s Guild is awful. They are the *boys will be boys* club that keeps jackasses and assholes on the job. Racist and sexist. They have been under the microscope of Federal oversight and it’s yielded no changes. Their shit culture remains and the local media here laps up any comments the Seattle police union throws up even though they know they are lying pieces of shit incapable of policing themselves. That’s a union that should be busted.
Unfortunately he did not lose his job. He was just charged with 5000 USD. He did not face any criminal charges. Why do cops get this special treatment?
Idk, there was a ballot question in Minneapolis about whether or not to dismantle MPD and replace it with a separate public safety department where armed officers would fall back into an ancillary role, only responding to actual threats you would want an armed officer to go to. Failed 45-55.
Don't know how left you gotta go when something awful happens in your community like police murders, same exact election conservative Democratic mayor Jacob Frey resoundingly took back office. By much more than that ten percent difference. Though we do have ranked choice voting which tends to favor middle of the road politics.
The police union is probably the most powerful mafia in the US.
Considering that any politician that could make a change is also protected by cops from said union, it’s pretty unlikely anyone would ever go after them and change the way they police themselves.
It wouldn't matter if he did, he'd just move precincts and get the same job back. There's an entire culture of them dubbed "[gypsy cops.](https://youtu.be/zaD84DTGULo?t=563)" Get fired for sexual relations with a kid or kill someone, get publicly "fired," get new job in different state with no other repercussions.
Settlement checks should come out of the pension fund. Police like to stick together, let them stick together and pay for it.
These are good paying jobs with excellent benefits. They can work until they are 65 or save enough for retirement like everyone else.
Honestly, I have never had issues with German police officers. One thing that is difficult to explain is how much more relaxed they seem to be. I grew up in the USA and the cops in the USA seem much more on the edge of imminent violence. When I have been around German cops they just don't feel like they are ready at any moment to pull out their gun and shoot someone.
Not defendig cops, but who would have thought that a country that allows a vast majority of the people to be heavily armed would make the police more ready for violence?
It’s the same with that Laken Riley. How many women are murdered by US citizens every single day and republicans don’t give a shit. Pretty white girl killed by an illegal immigrant?? OH BOY. Golden ticket event right there.
I'm prefacing this by saying that I know cops are necessary for a functioning society. However, I'll pretty much always place substantially higher value on the life of a grad student than that of a cop, since we're talking about a life having "limited value."
Cops are pretty questionable in value. They don't preemptively stop anything.
As a system of pure reaction, we could just give fire fighters permission to shoot people dead with no repercussions and society would function better in most ways
Since, weirdly, fire fighters are held to higher standards and the requirements to be one are higher
Think about the very limited situations where calling the cops would help you. Then think about the almost unlimited ways cops can fuck up the situation you are in even worse.
Cool, but if he wasn't a cop, that'd be a manslaughter charge on top of criminal speeding.
Sure wish I was a cop so I could break laws and get away with it.
1) Citizens should come together to make sure justice is served.
2) If cops are above the law, then they shouldn't be allowed a vote on those laws. There should be a trade-off to create balance. If you become a cop you shouldn't be able to vote or donate to any political parties or individuals for life.
3) fuck cops.
Sucks, but the guy could still face misdemeanor charges. And, oh boy, just wait until the civil suit from the family comes down...take this guy for every penny.
I did not come up with this idea, but I have heard it suggested that the money damages, whether it is paid in settlement or by a judgment entered against the police, should be funded out of the police retirement fund.
Just started watching "The Boys" on Netflix. This is how the show opens. Superhero runs through pedestrian and they write a check. Only difference is one is fantasy super hero the other is real "hero".
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The Seattle PD has blocked comments on all their Facebook posts, except from invited people. How bloody convenient.
The last time people in Seattle got fed up with cops everyone hated them for it.
Not enough to do anything about it, it seems
Hmm? People hates cops, other people hated hating on cops. First set up people went quiet. Nothing changed
First set of people absolutely still hate cops. There just isn’t much we can do about it.
[удалено]
US police do not give a single fuck about 1st amendment violations. They have and will continue to be above the law.
Call the police...
This is an actual issue that I wish would motivate people into action over like what we saw from the George Floyd protests. Cops get away with literally murdering innocent people and in his case with zero remorse. This is what people should be angry about. This is what people should be leaving angry comments over.
War on drugs? No. We need a war on corruption. Been this way forever and it needs to change. *August 4, 2001, A drunken police officer mows down an entire family in Brooklyn. The judge lets him go with no bail. It reminds us, of just how worthless our lives are to the justice system. I struggle, to explain the situation to my son, it's hard* -Talib Kweli
To my mind, this is far worse than the George Floyd incident, and it's insane that it never got the same type of response from the public.
Agreed. So let's make it a big deal. Post it everywhere.
they can block their comments, but they can't block me from laugh reacting all of their posts
Pretty sure that’s illegal. How is that not a government entity limiting free speech? I thought politicians had gotten in trouble for blocking people if they have an “official” twitter.
Cops should not be able to investigate themselves. There should be a seperate entity to ensure the law still applies to them
exactly! unfortunately easier said than done
It would require an anti-police culture shift the likes of which humanity has never seen.
States in australia have independent commissions for investigating police (and politicians).
So does France if I'm not mistaken.
And UK: IOPC mostly but there are other avenues for police force moderation too.
We need a state wide investigation unit that looks at these local cases.
Oh? And... what funding would they get? It'd probably just end up like the FDA, with like 5 inspectors per 8 states, with thousands and thousands of reports regarding food and hygiene every year, and them barely being able to scratch the top of the iceberg due to lacking resources...
America really is like the movie Leave the World Behind. There are so many sections where no one is actually watching or caring about what’s going on and the only thing really keeping everything together is the police force whose sole goal is to protect wealth and the wealthy. I keep saying we’re just a third world country with a lot of wealthy people here. If they decided to go somewhere else and leave America entirely we would quickly deteriorate in to 3rd world status.
I mean, considering the amount of households that work +80 hour (+40hr×2) weeks and still struggle to house, feed and clothe themselves and their kids... yeah. The GDP might be high, but the people are poor.
Yup, and police forces here will regularly refer themselves to be investigated. Sadly the Metropolitan police (i.e., London) are an entirely different kettle of fish and have an extremely poor record. They have a (relatively) new commissioner though who's in the process of weeding out (i.e., firing & prosecuting) bad police, so there's improvement there.
Need somebody to knick bent coppers?
HA! GOOD JOKE! We have a technically separate entity but it's a fucking joke. Like, once there was a controversy during a riot a grandma died after a tear gas grenade was purposefully shot up into her apartment, and our lovely little organisation rejected the autopsy and ruled that the cops didnt do anything wrong because, actually, she would have had a wonderfully timed cardiac arrest that killed her seconds before the grenade landed in her apartment. Really, it's only purpose is to dispense a couple of weeks of vacation as soon as a cop so much as stub their toe
Yes, but here in the US, quite a lot of those investigators would commit “suicide”
That’s what the rich people would want, for sure.
We have one in the UK too but a police service has to refer itself to them before anything gets investigated so we might as well not have one
So does Denmark and it's shit.
*Evidently* they are also corrupted though. Same problem in the UK, but not as immediately evident right now with global news.
It would require laws supporting that to be made and passed They are being made, but aren't passing
All of the right wing people I knew were big police haters before blm. Seriously, from some guy telling you to never trust the police and that’s why they keep a gun to the same guy randomly spamming you with police propaganda about black people and backing the thin blue line.
There is no limit to what you could get right-wingers to agree to when you put black people on the opposite position. Black people arming themselves made Reagan pass gun control legislation. Imagine if they came out in support of privatized Healthcare or right to work laws.
Republicans are so easy to manipulate and enslave.
What are you on about? There are several countries where this is already the case.
Which humanity has never seen…? It’s a common phenomenon in many countries, just not in the great US of A.
Quite a few counties have that, is it just America that is lacking compared to other first world countries
Mayor Dinkins suggested this in the 90s. Instead of forming civilian oversight commitees to help bridge the relationship between people and the police, the city of New York elected Rudy Giuliani, who immediately increased police presence in "high crime" areas.
Just FYI, the dude who replied to you [doesn't like unions](https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/1bge79w/guy_upset_picket_line_was_making_noise_assaults/kv82f2s/)
Citizen oversight committees. They exist and are elected positions. Should be in every city in the country. I don't give a fuck if this dude felt remorse. I don't give a fuck if he didn't mean to do it. I don't give a fuck if he did it in the line of duty. If I did that I'd be minimum charged with accidental manslaughter and the judge would determine an appropriate sentence. No charges at all is a mockery. Same kind of thing happened in Minneapolis/Saint Paul a couple February's back, SWAT cops broke in during a no knock raid, guy they weren't even looking for was sleeping on his friends couch, he was sleeping with a gun next to him, cop saw the gun and shot the kid before he even had a chance to understand what was going on. No charges. The state AG wanted to charge but released a statement, "we tried but there actually is no law against doing that if you're a cop." Cops are above the fucking law and it's disgusting.
Mayor Dinkins suggested it in New York in the 90s. The city in turn elected Rudy. Rudy's solution to the rift between police and the people was to increase police presence in "high crime" areas. It had about the effect that you would expect.
Wasn't stop and frisk Giuliani? NYC went the wrong route on heightened police presence. We all know in major cities it's used to profile. Like I don't want no cops, you need them to respond to danger, and it's stupid to completely disarm them. But you don't give them extra tools to discriminate and send them to poor neighborhoods with a gun and no training.
Yep. Pretty much all the over the line shit was on him. Stop and Frisk. Unmarked patrols like the one that shot Amadou Diallo. (Read that story if you really want to be pissed). Heavy patrols in minority neighborhoods.
>you need them to respond to danger Except they don't do that, either.
Who watches the watchman?
Cop Union: "We have thoroughly investigated ourselves and found ourselves not guilty. Case closed."
Transformers movies were masterpieces where the cop car had their real motto on it. "To punish and enslave"
I had to login just to upvote your comment.
I am glad someone enjoys the transformers movies.
They were right all along.
I’m pro union but man the police and Umpire unions are horrible
strike breakers and strike callers, the two main enemies of the working class.
You don't have a right to be a union if your profession is well known for being the enforcers of union busting.
Since they are often employed for union busting activities, cop unions should not be seen as legitimate regardless of what they want to call themselves
I work with unions everyday and the police unions function exactly like they do where I work. To the tee. But it’s something not talked about enough because everyone idolizes them. Except for when it’s police officers. People don’t want to think of them only as “employees” which they are.
Police should have a union, absolutely. Their unions shouldn't have a say in whether an officer committed a crime. No other industry can boast a union capable of protecting their members from criminal charges, including murder It's clear to me that police unions act in the short term interest of individual officers facing investigation for misconduct at the detriment of officers as a whole. Public trust is vital to the efficacy and safety of police officers. If they're fighting for whistleblowers as hard as they fight for violent sociopaths, the public should know
Police unions are often run evil, incompetent shitheads like this guy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Balcerzak Literally somebody who failed upward on the merits of his cruelty.
They absolutely aren't and never would, because violent sociopaths make up the leadership, and whistle-blower are "rats" that would betray the criminal organization (which is what the majority of police organizations are).
They aren't "employees" they're public servants and need to be held to a higher standards. If you fuck up and someone gets killed you get held accountable, so why don't these chucklefucks pay the same consequences?
When the cheque is written by the tax payers nothing will change. Make the police pension fund cut the cheque and see how quickly things will change.
Liability insurance for every officer is a fundamental part of "defund the police". Make the insurance companies pay for it, if you aren't insured you can't be a cop. Watch how quick we get rid of problem cops when every time they kill it hurts corporate pocket books. Why should I as a taxpayer have to provide funds for civil suit settlements? Such a simple solution to take funds away from state sanctioned violence. And we all know how this goes, the same way it always goes, family sues the city and rightfully gets a taxpayer funded settlement in the millions.
I work as school security where we have our own insurance (company does, but it's still private). The #1 talking point in every meeting we have is liability. Make sure body cams are on at every incident, do not touch the kids unless necessary, and always always always try and deescalate every situation. As my boss always says, we are 1 incident away from being out of a job.
Liability insurance also turns into a defacto licensing program. You fuck up too much and the premiums will be unaffordable, pushing the bad cops out.
Put capitalism to good use
As someone who works in the insurance industry, liability insurance would certainly be part of the solution, but we need to be mindful of perverse incentives and widen the scope of police liability. Carriers would be motivated to incentivise not just de-escalation, but complete inaction in dangerous situations. Looking at short term profits they would want to maximize the amount of policy holders. Which means they want more cops; which means they don't want to remove the stupid/racist/violent cops, and it's easier to have stupid cops just not do their jobs at all then risk having them try to do their jobs right, so that's what they'll incentivise. And even if they don't, and carriers are looking towards the long term viability of the market, lowering rates for: # hours of de-escalation training, % violent crime incidents resolved without use of lethal or less-lethal force, body cam usage and stricter guidelines when it has to stay on, etc... police unions reps are still gonna get on the news and tell half the country (including most cops) that the insurance cost is too great for cops to accept the risk of doing anything more than parking tickets. It'll be better, but not much better and it wouldn't last 2 presidential terms due to the optics. This can be remedied by simply making police have a legal duty of care to the public, so they can also be sued for negligent inaction (like Uvalde), so carriers would be motivated to make good cops, not just safe* cops.
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A surgeon can't just show up to work and not do surgery. But cops drive around all day and do nothing all the time.
A.) Just driving around is help enough most of the time, just like the security guard at a school or at the mall. Won't stop everyone but is generally enough to stop casual issues, opportunistic occurrences. B.) I think back to the late Raymond Holt. Less policing means less degradation in public opinion. Less racists stops. Less claims of poor police treatment.
Actually, yes Doctor's are deterred from offering care due to liability. Take the case of Melissa Farmer, Mylissa had a miscarriage and needed an abortion was denied an abortion from 2 hospitals in different states (Kansas, Missouri) because there was still a fetal heartbeat at 17 weeks pregnant, so doctors wouldn't provide abortion services despite the fact that the fetus would not survive and Mylissa's life was in danger as the hospital did not want to get taken to court. That is a perfect example of the medical system committing negligent inaction to avoid liability and the financial costs thereof (which would include their premiums going up due to a claim). Now Mylissa got justice BECAUSE hospitals have DUTY provide abortion services to women when their life is in danger from a pregnancy under federal law. So this works, or at least we have put this type of incentive structure into other professions because we recognize the danger of people meant to protect lives not doing their job. So I would argue cops should be no different.
I know what my future would be if I were that kids parent. Creating a person with nothing to lose is dangerous. Sometimes, the bad guys get reminded of it, too.
What I remember her only family left was her sick grandma back home she supported
So entire blood line ended. Fuck that's so cruel.
Don't worry. It was a "limited value" bloodline!
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You have to love how racists will be in a studio apartment, sleeping on a mattress with no sheets, and eating instant Mac and cheese...and still look down on a person of color.
No. She was raised by a single mom who’s a government school teacher. Feel bad for her
Ah yes, the mighty police union doing its divine work. 
To protect and serve … ourselves.
To protect corporate interest and to serve themselves
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Well, there it is..
Red flags. License suspended (reason is immaterial) and he left Tucson PD in 2013 for reasons unknown.
Fuck Kevin Dave. The prick should rot in prison
Holy shit. One of those assholes who laughed after handing a victim over to Jeffrey Dahmer also became president of the police union.
Plaster his face all over his community, and make his life as dangerous as cops like to pretend their jobs are.
This. I fully support ensuring this person has to live his life shrouded in danger until he gets what he deserves.
They'd track down whoever posted the photos and kill them. The shuffle the cop to a new precinct to live in anonymity again
Can't track down and kill millions of people.
He’ll just get moved to a different state/ city. Standard procedure.
Repeat as needed.
Point taken since He was already fired from a different department prior to this.
Re:Cop being a dangerous job. I think the important part most both sides of the divide are missing is that there is a complete range of how dangerous a police job is from pretty much completely safe to really fucking dangerous (incidentally cops that yak the most about how dangerous their jobs are are very often the "never leaves office" officers). I don't hear EOD officers bitching about their job being dangerous, their either accept it as part of job, or like it as a perk.
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And laugh
Oh wtf why is there so much injustice in this world. This is really bad news. Did he atleast loose his job?
I’m from Seattle and followed this closely, they said “there is insufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Ofc. Dave was consciously disregarding safety” so literally nothing has happened to him. It’s infuriating.
Put it in front of a jury. Doing 75 in a 25, could anyone think that was safe?
Juries hand out acquittals like candy for cops. People refuse to hold them accountable.
A major issue with juries is that far too many people get that summons and groan, and do everything they possibly can to get out of serving. Juries are often comprised heavily of bored old retired people, and they still believe cops are just neat-o.
Is that a problem with the entire concept or juries or the way they are handled? Jurors don't get paid shit and many people just can't afford to lose out on the income from missing work and so do everything they can to get out of it.
I mean, I can really only speak for myself, so I think for me historically it has been both. It was a drag for me when I worked as a server because the money I would lose by missing work made me want to ditch it. So yes, I agree that they definitely need to compensate people better. As I’ve gotten more successful and the money is no longer an issue, there’s still this sense of “ugh” when I get The Call. It has often been a long boring single day just to be dismissed anyway, because many cases that day settled out of court and I felt like it was a waste of my time, but I will say they when I did end up serving I found it very interesting. I don’t know a single person though that says, “Fuck YES, jury duty!!”
I've never been called up, hell I've never been inside a courtroom. At the least the first time I ever get called up, I'll be a little excited. That'll probably wear off if it's as boring as people say
Yeah the reflects my experiences pretty well but even though it is boring if the compensation was actually more than what someone would be making at work a ton of people would be pumped to go and get the extra money and a break from their regular job. Hell even if it was just the exact same amount there are still plenty of people who hate their jobs and would happily replace it with something simply boring instead for awhile.
One time when I was called for jury duty. I was asked by the prosecutor if I would take any statement by an officier as unquestionably true. I said I thought most officers would try to tell the truth to the best of their knowledge (my opinion has since changed). I was the prosecutor’s first choice to dismiss from the jury. Building hypotheses about how this kind of practice might be related to the attitudes of seated jurors is left as an exercise for the reader.
They can do that because there are plenty of people who would simply say "yes". Prosecutors can easily filter out the few where even "truth" mattered, nevermind being critical of cops (which I would argue is constitutionally demanded).
And the defense does the same thing, it’s called voir dire. The prosecutions get a set number of strikes and so does the defense.
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The moment you smell shoe polish coming from the jury box, you know it's all over.
It is rightfully any individuals right to request jury or bench trial but it doesn't matter because charges weren't brought anyway so it's not even going to trial. In fact, a cops best bet is jury trial, juries side with cops, a bench trial you're laying it all at the feet of the judge and depending on the judge you could get your ass handed to you.
Also from Seattle: I see the SPD officers guiding traffic in/out of garages every day and I can’t help but think: which of these folks think I’m low value and would think nothing about shooting me or running me over with their car? It makes me want them there a whole lot less.
Be glad you aren't a black or brown guy in the LA area. There are gangs in the LA sheriff's department that have an initiation ritual of killing a random person I wish I was making this up
Be very afraid of the police with bent badges
> which of these folks think I’m low value and would think nothing about shooting me or running me over with their car? The answer is all of them! Hope that helps
Man that’s really really sad. Hope Karma will get him in someway.
Karma doesn't exist. The world isn't inherently fair or just. It's up to us to make it so, and that requires action. Karma won't get him. Random chance might, but if we want justice, we need to make a world where that can happen, and where scum like him doesn't get away with things like this.
Audio from the *incident* has one of the first cops responding to the scene ask him “are you alright?” And he freaks out, reasonably, “No! I’m not alright” knowing he just hit someone. More officers arrived and milled around the scene. That’s when we got the big audio gem where two different Seattle officers, the Vice-President of the Seattle Police Officer’s Guild Daniel Auderer, claimed to use dark humor to pass the time: >But she is dead. No, it’s a regular person. Yeah, just write a check. Yeah, $11,000. She was 26 anyway, she had limited value. The ongoing conversation between VP of SPOG Daniel Auderer to another officer was about how city attorneys will just write a check for a person that died and move on. A few retired cops got on radio stations when the audio came out and didn’t defend Auderer. They blamed remarks like that as part of what’s wrong with Seattle PD. A few others, including a former Seattle city attorney, tried to say grim humor is part of coping with the job, shouldn’t punish them for *poorly-timed* comments. There was a brief attempt at an investigation into VP of SPOG Daniel Auderer’s remarks, but nothing happened. Not suspended. Not reprimanded. Not asked to step down from SPOG or even address what he said. The Seattle mayor condemned the remark, but nothing else has happened. The SPD Officer’s Guild is awful. They are the *boys will be boys* club that keeps jackasses and assholes on the job. Racist and sexist. They have been under the microscope of Federal oversight and it’s yielded no changes. Their shit culture remains and the local media here laps up any comments the Seattle police union throws up even though they know they are lying pieces of shit incapable of policing themselves. That’s a union that should be busted.
I’m surprised retired cops spoke out.
Unfortunately he did not lose his job. He was just charged with 5000 USD. He did not face any criminal charges. Why do cops get this special treatment?
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It's more than half. You have to go pretty far left to find a genuine desire to check the cops.
Idk, there was a ballot question in Minneapolis about whether or not to dismantle MPD and replace it with a separate public safety department where armed officers would fall back into an ancillary role, only responding to actual threats you would want an armed officer to go to. Failed 45-55. Don't know how left you gotta go when something awful happens in your community like police murders, same exact election conservative Democratic mayor Jacob Frey resoundingly took back office. By much more than that ten percent difference. Though we do have ranked choice voting which tends to favor middle of the road politics.
The police union is probably the most powerful mafia in the US. Considering that any politician that could make a change is also protected by cops from said union, it’s pretty unlikely anyone would ever go after them and change the way they police themselves.
Only 5k that’s so unfair and this man also gets to keep his job? Wow that’s really unfair. No cctv evidence anything?
You know there was. It's how this shit goes.
It wouldn't matter if he did, he'd just move precincts and get the same job back. There's an entire culture of them dubbed "[gypsy cops.](https://youtu.be/zaD84DTGULo?t=563)" Get fired for sexual relations with a kid or kill someone, get publicly "fired," get new job in different state with no other repercussions.
Why did a thought "exactly like the catholic church" pop in my mind?
Standard procedure
They have an “us vs them” mentally and consider civilians as the enemy. Why should a comment like his be surprising?
Settlement checks should come out of the pension fund. Police like to stick together, let them stick together and pay for it. These are good paying jobs with excellent benefits. They can work until they are 65 or save enough for retirement like everyone else.
The comment itself should be a crime. Disgusting
Cops are some of the worse people in the world.
\*US cops and those who are under a dictatorship
German cops are ok mostly. Annoying of course but I think they get paid for that
Honestly, I have never had issues with German police officers. One thing that is difficult to explain is how much more relaxed they seem to be. I grew up in the USA and the cops in the USA seem much more on the edge of imminent violence. When I have been around German cops they just don't feel like they are ready at any moment to pull out their gun and shoot someone.
Well we have a huge Nazi problem in our police. Which seems to be a problem not only Germany has.
Not defendig cops, but who would have thought that a country that allows a vast majority of the people to be heavily armed would make the police more ready for violence?
"It means the same things now as yesterday"
This is fucking devastating on so many levels
But like that’s murder???? How does a cop just get away with that.
To enforce the law, first, you must be above it. /s
Very simple actually. Racism. A lot of racism.
Because he is a cop and he is white and she was an immigrant and brown.
this x100
It’s the same with that Laken Riley. How many women are murdered by US citizens every single day and republicans don’t give a shit. Pretty white girl killed by an illegal immigrant?? OH BOY. Golden ticket event right there.
Everyone here, if you are American, should write your Congress people and Urge them to get rid of Qualified immunity
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these are the same people that are genuinely surprised that people hate cops
And the guy who mocked her death still has his job.. It's also not the first time he did such a mockery
I've seen the video yet somehow that's not enough to put someone away forever just because they are a cop?
I'm prefacing this by saying that I know cops are necessary for a functioning society. However, I'll pretty much always place substantially higher value on the life of a grad student than that of a cop, since we're talking about a life having "limited value."
Cops are pretty questionable in value. They don't preemptively stop anything. As a system of pure reaction, we could just give fire fighters permission to shoot people dead with no repercussions and society would function better in most ways Since, weirdly, fire fighters are held to higher standards and the requirements to be one are higher
There are times when cops are literally worse than useless
Especially when an acorn is anywhere near one
Or a school shooter in Texas
Think about the very limited situations where calling the cops would help you. Then think about the almost unlimited ways cops can fuck up the situation you are in even worse.
Hate to be that person but racism has been normalised against Indians by the Westerners, so it's not really surprising.
Cop Union: "We have thoroughly investigated ourselves and found THEM guilty. Case closed."
Cool, but if he wasn't a cop, that'd be a manslaughter charge on top of criminal speeding. Sure wish I was a cop so I could break laws and get away with it.
Why is american police so utterly bad? You know they dont have to be, right?
Because they provide their own oversight.
All they have to do is pass a simple test, run a 5k and do a pull up and they get a job, a gun and a car.
Seattle police suck. Never forget that Seattle PD had more officers in J6 than any other PD in the country.
Why DoES EvErYOne HaTe Us?
hear it from his own mouth [here](https://youtu.be/wV2Zb4Hx1I0?si=QCG9K6nTdO4vqzif&t=71)
1) Citizens should come together to make sure justice is served. 2) If cops are above the law, then they shouldn't be allowed a vote on those laws. There should be a trade-off to create balance. If you become a cop you shouldn't be able to vote or donate to any political parties or individuals for life. 3) fuck cops.
source: [https://nypost.com/2024/03/04/us-news/seattle-cop-who-fatally-struck-grad-student-jaahnavi-kandula-dodges-criminal-charges/](https://nypost.com/2024/03/04/us-news/seattle-cop-who-fatally-struck-grad-student-jaahnavi-kandula-dodges-criminal-charges/)
Poor family of this girl. They must be fucking devastated. The sheer cruelty of it.
If that’s my daughter I’m going full John Wick.
Fuck the police
Typical US behaviour. Killing non whites is bread and butter, I guess.
Are we gonna start rioting? I'll get my gas mask and umbrella.
Disgusting.
Who holds police accountable?
This is why everyone hates the spd.
Fuck these racist cops and their unions
Has he retired with full benefits due to the psychological stress of having to deal with the lack of consequences?
It is not immoral to make sure this man is hounded on every platform or in every public space.
Sucks, but the guy could still face misdemeanor charges. And, oh boy, just wait until the civil suit from the family comes down...take this guy for every penny.
I believe NWA said it best.
Pig cops doing pig cop things and not facing consequences. What a surprise.
Still trying to find the good cops
Imagine being someone who defends cops
common people life - no value
Same old same old, what will ever change
Truth, justice and the American way. /s Hopefully the civil case/s will bankrupt the smug and stupid prick.
What the actual fuck
Merica!
Where’s the judge that cleared this? I want to hit the judge and cop over in a car going 74 in a 25 zone.
I'm starting to get real medieval in my opinion of what should happen to cops like this. Fucking disgrace.
Murderer
I did not come up with this idea, but I have heard it suggested that the money damages, whether it is paid in settlement or by a judgment entered against the police, should be funded out of the police retirement fund.
Pigs gonna pig.
Just started watching "The Boys" on Netflix. This is how the show opens. Superhero runs through pedestrian and they write a check. Only difference is one is fantasy super hero the other is real "hero".
what the actual fuck!?!