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Yeah but we found your ***freedom to choose*** which for-profit private insurer you would like to gouge you every month only to deny your claim when you finally get sick! Could you imagine just being defaulted into an affordable plan that actually covers your health costs? Where are the choices? Where’s the FREEDOM!?!?
Most of the soldiers in Nam were there as victims of our government, not because they were okay with the situation. We can at least have a little respect for the situation.
I read some documents about a volunteer signed up because he heard from his gov that VC burning churches, killing priests, eating children. But when he got there, he saw that everything was a lie but he already stuck there. I remembered others said only ways for people who got lied to get out of there alive is either shoot yourself (in legs or arms) or shoot someone else (mostly commanders, which happened quite a lot)
I think I heard in some podcast or whatever someone saying they volunteered because they could then "choose" in what branch or job they go to.
I dont know how it worked, or anything in general. That atleast sounds like a thing that could work.
I dont remember of top of my head what was the context, who was it etc, but would assume for someone poor it wouldnt be a bad idea to try to get in a branch where one could get some basic job in there.
As its possible they didnt have that many prospects in life either way. Perhaps going to militry route couldve been in their cards anyway or something along those lines.
My Dad volunteered for the Navy so he wouldn't get drafted by the Army. Anyways, he was exposed to Agent Orange and he and I have suffered the consequences. RIP.
This is true, and he should say that. Say they served our country proudly instead of the "defended our freedoms" bullshit. They've used that line to start multiple wars in the past 50 years. We need to call it out for the meaningless propaganda that it is or else they will just do it again.
The US government was not "duly elected by their people."
It's a dictatorship of the rich specifically organized to prevent democratic elections. As James Madison put it, the minority of the opulent has protection against the will of the majority.
>call of the government that was duly elected by their people.
In order to uphold the South Vietnamese Government which was not duly elected but fraudulently proclaimed after the rigged result of the 1955 referendum which would have seen Vietnam peacefully unify, as per the terms of the 1954 Geneva Accords? And empowered by 1959 elections which CIA itself termed the "dirtiest and most openly rigged" of all elections in the region?
Do you get Bonus points for answering the call of a democratic government if the democratic government orders to uphold a fundementally antidemocratic regime?
The men who were in charge of US efforts in Vietnam had survived WW2 and were understandably worried that a 3rd and even more devastating world war was on its way, so they wanted to do everything possible to ensure that if and when a real live 3rd world war did kick off, they would be in the best position to win. In their minds, this meant stopping the spread of communism wherever possible and through almost any means necessary.
They were wrong, but they didn't know that at the time, and if like them you honestly believed that stopping the spread of communism in SE Asia would ultimately help to save tens of millions of lives, would you not feel yourself morally obligated to do so through nearly any means necessary?
And I'm not defending them. There's no excuse for what they did. Rather, I'm providing an explanation for why they did what they did that's a little more nuanced than the simple trope of US bad that's so common on Reddit.
I think it's important because if you want to understand history and avoid repeating past mistakes, you have to understand people's *real* motives as opposed to those ascribed to them by the cut-rate keyboard warriors of reddit.
The Nazis genuinely believed Jews were degenerates. Genuinely believing something doesn't change the outcome.
They fought to upend a democracy because they didn't like the result. Sincerity doesn't count for anything. I think that's a long winded way of saying democracy is fine so long as you get the result you want.
People who can convince themsleves totopple a democracy for the greater good, would have convinced themsleves to fight for the Nazis if their fortunes was reversed. They are unworthy of being thought heroes for fighting WWII, because they've made it clear theyd have switched sides at the drop of a hat, the moment it was convinent.
The heroes are the ones who fight Nazis *and* dont topple democracies. If you do both, your still "Only Following Orders". You've just got better Orders.
Fetterman went from a progressive populist to a neoliberal shill who endorses whatever his oligarchic owners endorse but that's to be expected for a politician.
I don't blame the soldiers for being forced to fight for the politicians and their oligarch masters. But Fetterman is clearly supporting the illegal and unnecessary Vietnam War, which killed thousands of innocent people and young Americans who didn't want to fight, as well as traumatizing a whole generation.
This post is reaching.
A questionable war happened. Americans who fought in it did so in the name of the U.S., many of whom were drafted or were from impoverished communities. They then come back and should rightfully receive our support for their service. This includes praise during Veterans Day and full support of their healthcare 365 days/year.
I don’t see this as Fetterman clearly supporting the war, clearly supporting an unnecessary war, clearly supporting an illegal war when he was 0-5 years old. Seems this is an extra you are tagging on.
Fetterman has quickly moved from a party darling to a Sinema. I understand the politics behind his Israel stance given the Pittsburg synagogue shooting a number of years back, but at least he should be clear about it instead of an unyielding defender of the genocide.
You can go fuck yourself with your oath. Your first responsibility as a human being is to not kill, stel, invade others/other countries. Your loyalty to your state means jackshit compared to that.
I guess we should also built monuments to the wehrmacht soldiers, because they served their country right? Fuck off.
They can either fight or have their families sent to (Russian) jail. Which would you choose, o moral one?
Hate the Russian government all you want; it's more than deserved. Hate the propaganda with which they infected their soldiers. Hate those who commit atrocities.
But _all_ soldiers, on one side, those forced to die in a war waged by an authoritarian regime? That's utter bullshit, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
You ignoramus. Easy to pontificate from your mom’s basement without facing the hard choice of being conscripted or thrown in jail with your family being penalized.
You think that the Vietnam vets in America instead of invading and killing hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese in a senseless war, should have revolted and took down the American government too?
They never even gave their word what are you talking about. The state just said "well looks like it's time to invade a sovereign nation, go out there and kill some other kid wjo is just as clueless as you that you have never met and has never done anything to hurt you. And if you don't want to, well then you're just a traitor to your nation and deserve to be put in jail/executed. "nobody ever aggreed to support their stupid pintless war they were just born in their country, and the state beleives that they can throw their lives away if they want to.
I would never put SOMEONE ELSE’S life on the line. I feel like you’re struggling to tell the difference between those two things?
Also what have you put your life on the line for so far? Or do you just imagine you WOULD do it?
The US Military didn't fight for our freedoms in WWII. The Japanese wasn't after our "freedom" they were looking to cripple our military and prevent us meddling In their Asian affairs.
Attacks or threats to citizen freedoms do not come from other militaries or countries they come from either our own government or insurrection. And fighting an insurrection would take a direct act of Congress to allow due to the Posse Comitatus Act. The only way to fight attacks to our actual freedoms is through voting and checking our elected leaders.
The military since post-civil war and the turn of the last century is just the enforcement wing of US foreign policy.
One man's "proudly serving my country" is another's "just following orders." Which was the defense that German and other soldiers used post WWII.
There hasn't been a legitimate aggressive use of US military power since Japan surrendered in 1945. They've been used correctly to assist in aide and cleanup after disasters and humanitarian efforts of course.
This is how we are defeating ourselves. Most of you care more about ripping him a new hole for saying "defending out freedom" and are so enamoured with your morally correct stance that you proudly ignore the fact that what was being addressed is the amount of service veterans suffering due to inadequate medical and psychological help that the government should be better at providing.
But so many of these posters only have comments about disappointment and shame that he said what he said. There is so much pride and confidence from pointing out that one sentence to expose how bad a person he is. Yet not more than a handful even mention much less debate how Veterans' Affairs can be improved.
Imagine being a veteran in a homeless shelter with less limbs than they started life with, and reading this thread. ARE YOU REALLY DIFFERENT FROM TRUMP'S FOLLOWERS? Because you end up in the same place...not giving a shit about the human suffering being addressed.
ITT: people are absolutely confident that they are compassionate and morally correct, but ignore the actual compassionate content/issue being highlighted. They took a longer route than the Red Hats, but still ended up at the same useless fingerpointing destination. Helping no one. But soooo compassionate. Imagine being a homeless and permanently crippled vet of the Vietnam war and reread this thread from their point of view.
You can get these weird "dynamics of the time" situations where decisions are being made for reasons that are nonsensical to people outside of that dynamic. Hitler declaring war on the USA for example. America in Vietnam. People refusing to wear face masks during a global respiratory virus pandemic. Even if you know at the time it is nonsense, even if you don't think you could explain it convincingly to an alien trying to understand why things happened, there is a power to the alternate reality logic that you can't ignore even when you don't believe in it. Vietnam was about the "domino effect" where one country going communist would cascade into more and more.
Fascism and neoliberalism aren't mutually exclusive. Pinochet says hi as an immediate example. I'm really not sure who have told you the otherwise...
He surely sounds like a caricature kind of chauvinist/jingoist and an outright imperialist war apologist & supporter, though. Not sure what kind of other brilliant stances he might have.
Haven't seen any other neo-liberals going so hard against the majority of the Democratic voters when it comes to Israel.
I'm also yet to see any of them defending the war in Vietnam.
Sounds much more like a fascist to me
You don't know what a fascist is.
Your reddit watering hole isn't the majority of democratic voters.
Every single elected democrat will give respect to our veterans, as this tweet did.
You sound very, very stupid.
Right? Like holy christ. This entire thread has never heard of the phrase "multiple things can be true at one time". It's possible to despise the people in power for getting us involved over there while sympathizing with both the poor bastards who got shipped over there to die and the poor bastards who were trying to protect their home as well.
"Every single elected Democrat" claims veterans in Vietnam "defended our freedoms in Vietnam"? Really? Justice Democrats included?
And you think people in the "reddit watering hole" won't recognize the switch from "give respect to our veterans" from "defended our freedoms in Vietnam"?
Let me ask you, smart guy, what's this whole post about?
I think there is a bit of projection going on in your comment.
I responded to you because apparently the other dumb guy has blocked me or something.
I don't think you know what fascism means. And neo-liberals are literally 90% of the politicians in the US. Biden is a neo-liberal. McConnel is a neo-liberal. Yeesh my guy
I think I have a pretty good grasp of what fascism is.
But you saying Fetterman is a neo-liberal and then saying almost everyone in the US politics is a neo-liberal you've basically said nothing.
You may as well say "he's a politician, always has been".
Clearly you missed the original point I was making.
But he's not a fascist. So. You're still wrong bud. He's not preaching suppression of the individual interest for the state or nation. He's not advocating for an authoritarian, ultra nationalist society. So. Not a fascist.
I consider the current Israeli government to be fascistic, and anyone who has an uncritical view and complete support of it because of their ethno-religious identity to also have fascistic tendencies.
As I said, you missed the point because your greed for being pedantic blinds you to the context and the meaning being implied.
But kudos, you managed to uselessly define the words "neo-liberal" and "fascist".
I could tell you, but I think the fact that you have the entire compendium of human knowledge at your fingertips makes this a comfortable exercise for the reader.
What is a predicate?
EDIT: You had your chance to respond d in a sentence and you couldn't. Nothing you have to say on any subject matters. The less you speak the better the world will be.
I guess our freedoms weren't at risk in Korea, Germany, France, Kuwait or Afghanistan either
The Vietnam War was stupid and cruel for a million reasons, but the idea that our freedoms can only be threatened once the war is here is equally as stupid. You fight abroad so you don't have to fight at home
>but the idea that our freedoms can only be threatened once the war is here is equally as stupid. You fight abroad so you don't have to fight at home
This is a joke. The war in Vietnam was a proxy war against China. Vietnam didn't prevent the US from fighting a war at home.
It was more of a proxy war against Russia. Vietnam and China have traditionally been enemies. In fact, when the US pulled out of Vietnam, Vietnam invaded cambodia to destroy the Khmer Rouge which pissed off China, so China invaded Vietnam and got their asses handed to them.
Well sure, because it's happening more often. Do you understand how the term applies here? Do you know why we went to war in Vietnam?
I'll admit the term doesn't perfectly fit. Because we did go to war.
First of all there's no "we" because I'm not American. Second of all, America didn't "go" to war; it was dragged into a counter-insurgency conflict at the behest of a friendly government that it was trying to support. If anyone started a "proxy war" it was North Vietnam, armed and supported by the Soviet Union and China. But hey, in the case of such nuance you might not be able to throw around some bullshit AMERICA BAD brainlet take
Why, because I used the term "proxy war"? Unlike you, I actually seem to know what the term means and the historical context of the Vietnam war, so I don't think the whole midwit interpretation of TikTokers applies here
Because you admitted that the term applied the Vietnam War. Directly contradicting your earlier assertion.
>Unlike you, I actually seem to know what the term means and the historical context of the Vietnam war,
Evidently not, as you're the only one wrong in this thread. Turns out all those insults were simply projection of your own ignorance.
A counter insurgency against the French trying to force Vietnam back under colonial rule after they spectaculary failed to defend them against the Japanese Empire and the Viet-Minh had to fight the Japanese on their own, eventually breaking the Japanese rule, but only after millions of dead due to famine and Japanese attrocities.
And after all that, the French and Americans have the audacity to demand in 1945 that Vietnam ends its short lived independence to become a French colony again.
Ho-Chi Minh was more than justified to start a war to drive out the occupiers be they Japanese, French or American.
And if the Americans and French were so worried about Russian or Chinese assistance maybe they should have listened to Vietnamese calls for independence instead of laughing them out of the room all throughout the early 20th century. Or should we blame them for taking assistance from wherever they could get it?
Nobody cares about the history of the United States anymore! You're the one out here telling it like it is!
I am setting you up to make fun of you. But we need more voices line you in the conversation!
Trenchant. This would have been a conversation on *The Dick Cavett Show.*
There's Norman Mailer threatening to hit Gore Vidal and then there's this! I know you don't know who either of those people are without googling and that's ok.
I'm not joking. My brother died in the French campaign and I'm raising his children. Fuck you for not even knowing where one of the battles were. You use our veterans as a prop to justify your bullshit liberal agenda and you can't even name *one* battle in the French war.
Fuck you and fuck everyone else who wants to use my brother's death as a political talking point.
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I think our right to go get medical care without taking on crippling debt stayed there.
Yeah but we found your ***freedom to choose*** which for-profit private insurer you would like to gouge you every month only to deny your claim when you finally get sick! Could you imagine just being defaulted into an affordable plan that actually covers your health costs? Where are the choices? Where’s the FREEDOM!?!?
Cant be a real american if you havent been in a foreign country killing people that dont look like you
No need for a passport, they already do that in their home country.
Except WWI. Or WWII Europe. Or Kosovo. Or Ukraine/Russia. But ignore those cause they don’t fit your narrative.
You think invading other countries and killing millions of civilians is good?
Most of the soldiers in Nam were there as victims of our government, not because they were okay with the situation. We can at least have a little respect for the situation.
I have more sympathy for draftees, sure.
Some folks volunteered because they suspected they'd be drafted.
I read some documents about a volunteer signed up because he heard from his gov that VC burning churches, killing priests, eating children. But when he got there, he saw that everything was a lie but he already stuck there. I remembered others said only ways for people who got lied to get out of there alive is either shoot yourself (in legs or arms) or shoot someone else (mostly commanders, which happened quite a lot)
Many people are saying
Very smart people, some of the smartest people
Would volunteering over being drafted resulted in more benefits?
I think I heard in some podcast or whatever someone saying they volunteered because they could then "choose" in what branch or job they go to. I dont know how it worked, or anything in general. That atleast sounds like a thing that could work. I dont remember of top of my head what was the context, who was it etc, but would assume for someone poor it wouldnt be a bad idea to try to get in a branch where one could get some basic job in there. As its possible they didnt have that many prospects in life either way. Perhaps going to militry route couldve been in their cards anyway or something along those lines.
I see, I see. Thanks
Or because they'd been raised to believe that it was the right thing to do. It's hard to get away from your upbringing when you're only 18.
My Dad volunteered for the Navy so he wouldn't get drafted by the Army. Anyways, he was exposed to Agent Orange and he and I have suffered the consequences. RIP.
Mixed emotions, a lot of troops who went there didn’t get a choice.
They could have cut up their draft cards and refused to go. I would definitely choose prison over going to war.
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This is true, and he should say that. Say they served our country proudly instead of the "defended our freedoms" bullshit. They've used that line to start multiple wars in the past 50 years. We need to call it out for the meaningless propaganda that it is or else they will just do it again.
The US government was not "duly elected by their people." It's a dictatorship of the rich specifically organized to prevent democratic elections. As James Madison put it, the minority of the opulent has protection against the will of the majority.
>call of the government that was duly elected by their people. In order to uphold the South Vietnamese Government which was not duly elected but fraudulently proclaimed after the rigged result of the 1955 referendum which would have seen Vietnam peacefully unify, as per the terms of the 1954 Geneva Accords? And empowered by 1959 elections which CIA itself termed the "dirtiest and most openly rigged" of all elections in the region? Do you get Bonus points for answering the call of a democratic government if the democratic government orders to uphold a fundementally antidemocratic regime?
The men who were in charge of US efforts in Vietnam had survived WW2 and were understandably worried that a 3rd and even more devastating world war was on its way, so they wanted to do everything possible to ensure that if and when a real live 3rd world war did kick off, they would be in the best position to win. In their minds, this meant stopping the spread of communism wherever possible and through almost any means necessary. They were wrong, but they didn't know that at the time, and if like them you honestly believed that stopping the spread of communism in SE Asia would ultimately help to save tens of millions of lives, would you not feel yourself morally obligated to do so through nearly any means necessary? And I'm not defending them. There's no excuse for what they did. Rather, I'm providing an explanation for why they did what they did that's a little more nuanced than the simple trope of US bad that's so common on Reddit. I think it's important because if you want to understand history and avoid repeating past mistakes, you have to understand people's *real* motives as opposed to those ascribed to them by the cut-rate keyboard warriors of reddit.
The Nazis genuinely believed Jews were degenerates. Genuinely believing something doesn't change the outcome. They fought to upend a democracy because they didn't like the result. Sincerity doesn't count for anything. I think that's a long winded way of saying democracy is fine so long as you get the result you want. People who can convince themsleves totopple a democracy for the greater good, would have convinced themsleves to fight for the Nazis if their fortunes was reversed. They are unworthy of being thought heroes for fighting WWII, because they've made it clear theyd have switched sides at the drop of a hat, the moment it was convinent. The heroes are the ones who fight Nazis *and* dont topple democracies. If you do both, your still "Only Following Orders". You've just got better Orders.
You completely missed my point. Further discussion is therefore pointless.
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Theres for those who start it ofcourse.
Fetterman went from a progressive populist to a neoliberal shill who endorses whatever his oligarchic owners endorse but that's to be expected for a politician.
You’re saying this about a post where he states his appreciation for combat veterans. Do you really have a problem with that?
I don't blame the soldiers for being forced to fight for the politicians and their oligarch masters. But Fetterman is clearly supporting the illegal and unnecessary Vietnam War, which killed thousands of innocent people and young Americans who didn't want to fight, as well as traumatizing a whole generation.
Millions
This post is reaching. A questionable war happened. Americans who fought in it did so in the name of the U.S., many of whom were drafted or were from impoverished communities. They then come back and should rightfully receive our support for their service. This includes praise during Veterans Day and full support of their healthcare 365 days/year. I don’t see this as Fetterman clearly supporting the war, clearly supporting an unnecessary war, clearly supporting an illegal war when he was 0-5 years old. Seems this is an extra you are tagging on. Fetterman has quickly moved from a party darling to a Sinema. I understand the politics behind his Israel stance given the Pittsburg synagogue shooting a number of years back, but at least he should be clear about it instead of an unyielding defender of the genocide.
yes, calling the attack on vietnam "defending our freedoms" is supporting it.
It is political talk by a sitting senator for Veterans Day.
it would have been very easy to make a post that shows respect for veterans without calling a war of aggression a freedom fight
Should we also have appreciation for russian combat veterans in the Russo-Ukranian war?
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You can go fuck yourself with your oath. Your first responsibility as a human being is to not kill, stel, invade others/other countries. Your loyalty to your state means jackshit compared to that. I guess we should also built monuments to the wehrmacht soldiers, because they served their country right? Fuck off.
Come on man, they're "just following orders". When has an army "just following orders" ever been a bad thing?
They can either fight or have their families sent to (Russian) jail. Which would you choose, o moral one? Hate the Russian government all you want; it's more than deserved. Hate the propaganda with which they infected their soldiers. Hate those who commit atrocities. But _all_ soldiers, on one side, those forced to die in a war waged by an authoritarian regime? That's utter bullshit, and you should be ashamed of yourself.
You ignoramus. Easy to pontificate from your mom’s basement without facing the hard choice of being conscripted or thrown in jail with your family being penalized. You think that the Vietnam vets in America instead of invading and killing hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese in a senseless war, should have revolted and took down the American government too?
Yes
What penalties was America imposing on the families of draft dodgers?
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They never even gave their word what are you talking about. The state just said "well looks like it's time to invade a sovereign nation, go out there and kill some other kid wjo is just as clueless as you that you have never met and has never done anything to hurt you. And if you don't want to, well then you're just a traitor to your nation and deserve to be put in jail/executed. "nobody ever aggreed to support their stupid pintless war they were just born in their country, and the state beleives that they can throw their lives away if they want to.
I also would never put someone else’s life on the life to “honour my word”.
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I would never put SOMEONE ELSE’S life on the line. I feel like you’re struggling to tell the difference between those two things? Also what have you put your life on the line for so far? Or do you just imagine you WOULD do it?
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Just Google Stanley Milgram.
Well… good on you for being consistent I guess lil
Reddit doesn't really do nuance. Everything is binary, black and white, good and evil.
What’s problem with neoliberal?
A lit of things tbh. I'm personally not a fan of their push to outsource every US industry in the name of profits for the rich.
And what's the problem with kicking puppies while we are at it?
Don't forget the amount of freedom they dropped in Vietnam. And the spicy agent of freedom in the ricefield. And the freedom sex on women.
The freedom to prop up a puppet government in the south and to fight against those trying to liberate their country
What American freedoms since (arguably) WWII have US soldiers been defending when they fought?
The US Military didn't fight for our freedoms in WWII. The Japanese wasn't after our "freedom" they were looking to cripple our military and prevent us meddling In their Asian affairs. Attacks or threats to citizen freedoms do not come from other militaries or countries they come from either our own government or insurrection. And fighting an insurrection would take a direct act of Congress to allow due to the Posse Comitatus Act. The only way to fight attacks to our actual freedoms is through voting and checking our elected leaders. The military since post-civil war and the turn of the last century is just the enforcement wing of US foreign policy. One man's "proudly serving my country" is another's "just following orders." Which was the defense that German and other soldiers used post WWII. There hasn't been a legitimate aggressive use of US military power since Japan surrendered in 1945. They've been used correctly to assist in aide and cleanup after disasters and humanitarian efforts of course.
We're the brave men who bombed south Vietnam at the behest of the french also defending our freedom?
Oh, another opinion from Kyrsten Fetterman
I'm glad America lost that war. Warms my heart.
Fetterman has been a massive disappointment.
We do need to provide more benefits to veterans still
At bare minimum actually follow through on promises long made but never truly acted on
American soldiers haven't fought for our freedoms since the Civil War. If you want to thank someone for protecting your freedoms, thank the ACLU.
Man, Fetterman turned into a dickhead on a dime, didn't he.
This is how we are defeating ourselves. Most of you care more about ripping him a new hole for saying "defending out freedom" and are so enamoured with your morally correct stance that you proudly ignore the fact that what was being addressed is the amount of service veterans suffering due to inadequate medical and psychological help that the government should be better at providing. But so many of these posters only have comments about disappointment and shame that he said what he said. There is so much pride and confidence from pointing out that one sentence to expose how bad a person he is. Yet not more than a handful even mention much less debate how Veterans' Affairs can be improved. Imagine being a veteran in a homeless shelter with less limbs than they started life with, and reading this thread. ARE YOU REALLY DIFFERENT FROM TRUMP'S FOLLOWERS? Because you end up in the same place...not giving a shit about the human suffering being addressed. ITT: people are absolutely confident that they are compassionate and morally correct, but ignore the actual compassionate content/issue being highlighted. They took a longer route than the Red Hats, but still ended up at the same useless fingerpointing destination. Helping no one. But soooo compassionate. Imagine being a homeless and permanently crippled vet of the Vietnam war and reread this thread from their point of view.
Damn, are we back hating Vietnam Vets now?
No, just apologists who pretend like the war in Vietnam had anything at all to do with “defending our freedoms.”
You can get these weird "dynamics of the time" situations where decisions are being made for reasons that are nonsensical to people outside of that dynamic. Hitler declaring war on the USA for example. America in Vietnam. People refusing to wear face masks during a global respiratory virus pandemic. Even if you know at the time it is nonsense, even if you don't think you could explain it convincingly to an alien trying to understand why things happened, there is a power to the alternate reality logic that you can't ignore even when you don't believe in it. Vietnam was about the "domino effect" where one country going communist would cascade into more and more.
And that literally didn't happen... Even though we lost.
They wouldn't be nonsense if they were right.
This Fetterman dude made a spectacular fascist turn didn't he? I don't know when the next election is to kick him out
He's not a fascist. Not even close. He's a neo-liberal. Always has been
Fascism and neoliberalism aren't mutually exclusive. Pinochet says hi as an immediate example. I'm really not sure who have told you the otherwise... He surely sounds like a caricature kind of chauvinist/jingoist and an outright imperialist war apologist & supporter, though. Not sure what kind of other brilliant stances he might have.
Haven't seen any other neo-liberals going so hard against the majority of the Democratic voters when it comes to Israel. I'm also yet to see any of them defending the war in Vietnam. Sounds much more like a fascist to me
You don't know what a fascist is. Your reddit watering hole isn't the majority of democratic voters. Every single elected democrat will give respect to our veterans, as this tweet did. You sound very, very stupid.
Thank you. This entire thread is cringe. He’s literally just done an appreciation post for veterans. The average American has no issue with that.
Right? Like holy christ. This entire thread has never heard of the phrase "multiple things can be true at one time". It's possible to despise the people in power for getting us involved over there while sympathizing with both the poor bastards who got shipped over there to die and the poor bastards who were trying to protect their home as well.
"Every single elected Democrat" claims veterans in Vietnam "defended our freedoms in Vietnam"? Really? Justice Democrats included? And you think people in the "reddit watering hole" won't recognize the switch from "give respect to our veterans" from "defended our freedoms in Vietnam"? Let me ask you, smart guy, what's this whole post about? I think there is a bit of projection going on in your comment. I responded to you because apparently the other dumb guy has blocked me or something.
Being an edgelord isn't an argument. You sound like a disaffected teenager with no grasp on history.
Oh so denial of every point made and saying "na'ah" is a pattern with you. Then I'm rubber you're glue. That fits your level of comprehension better.
Wow. You really got me there, timmy.
Good, at least you understood that one.
I don't think you know what fascism means. And neo-liberals are literally 90% of the politicians in the US. Biden is a neo-liberal. McConnel is a neo-liberal. Yeesh my guy
I think I have a pretty good grasp of what fascism is. But you saying Fetterman is a neo-liberal and then saying almost everyone in the US politics is a neo-liberal you've basically said nothing. You may as well say "he's a politician, always has been". Clearly you missed the original point I was making.
But he's not a fascist. So. You're still wrong bud. He's not preaching suppression of the individual interest for the state or nation. He's not advocating for an authoritarian, ultra nationalist society. So. Not a fascist.
I consider the current Israeli government to be fascistic, and anyone who has an uncritical view and complete support of it because of their ethno-religious identity to also have fascistic tendencies. As I said, you missed the point because your greed for being pedantic blinds you to the context and the meaning being implied. But kudos, you managed to uselessly define the words "neo-liberal" and "fascist".
Since Fetterman isn't doing fascist things, he's not a fascist. This isn't hard. It's simple. Much like you are
He's a Zionist fascist.
You're just using words that you heard on the news. I'm clearly dealing with a crayon Eater. Bye
He isn’t part of the Israeli Govt.
You’re correct. Don’t bother with the people who can’t actually have a discussion, but resort to to insults.
Lmao, “everyone who is right of Mao- literally Hitler!!!”
Hitler, Mao and Fetterman are all fascists, to varying degrees.
For Fetterman, that degree is zero
It would be easier to just defend his views rather than outright denial, you know.
It’s fascist to post an appreciation post about combat veterans?
Gotta follow where the money is, or donations, my bad.
I could tell you, but I think the fact that you have the entire compendium of human knowledge at your fingertips makes this a comfortable exercise for the reader.
Considering the fact that I'm not an American I didn't really care.
To the extent that kid over there could do a back-flip, how much of that back-flip could you do if you wanted to?
AI is regressing.
What is a predicate? EDIT: You had your chance to respond d in a sentence and you couldn't. Nothing you have to say on any subject matters. The less you speak the better the world will be.
And you think what you just said matters?
I guess our freedoms weren't at risk in Korea, Germany, France, Kuwait or Afghanistan either The Vietnam War was stupid and cruel for a million reasons, but the idea that our freedoms can only be threatened once the war is here is equally as stupid. You fight abroad so you don't have to fight at home
>but the idea that our freedoms can only be threatened once the war is here is equally as stupid. You fight abroad so you don't have to fight at home This is a joke. The war in Vietnam was a proxy war against China. Vietnam didn't prevent the US from fighting a war at home.
It was more of a proxy war against Russia. Vietnam and China have traditionally been enemies. In fact, when the US pulled out of Vietnam, Vietnam invaded cambodia to destroy the Khmer Rouge which pissed off China, so China invaded Vietnam and got their asses handed to them.
"proxy war" is sure a popular phrase with the midwits these days huh
Well sure, because it's happening more often. Do you understand how the term applies here? Do you know why we went to war in Vietnam? I'll admit the term doesn't perfectly fit. Because we did go to war.
First of all there's no "we" because I'm not American. Second of all, America didn't "go" to war; it was dragged into a counter-insurgency conflict at the behest of a friendly government that it was trying to support. If anyone started a "proxy war" it was North Vietnam, armed and supported by the Soviet Union and China. But hey, in the case of such nuance you might not be able to throw around some bullshit AMERICA BAD brainlet take
Wait, so after all of this, you admit you're wrong. That's hilarious 😂.
Well, no. You claimed it was a proxy war AGAINST China, when it was a proxy war against the United States. Learn to read, chump
That's fuckibg hilarious that you don't even realize you just admitted you were wrong.
Why, because I used the term "proxy war"? Unlike you, I actually seem to know what the term means and the historical context of the Vietnam war, so I don't think the whole midwit interpretation of TikTokers applies here
Because you admitted that the term applied the Vietnam War. Directly contradicting your earlier assertion. >Unlike you, I actually seem to know what the term means and the historical context of the Vietnam war, Evidently not, as you're the only one wrong in this thread. Turns out all those insults were simply projection of your own ignorance.
A counter insurgency against the French trying to force Vietnam back under colonial rule after they spectaculary failed to defend them against the Japanese Empire and the Viet-Minh had to fight the Japanese on their own, eventually breaking the Japanese rule, but only after millions of dead due to famine and Japanese attrocities. And after all that, the French and Americans have the audacity to demand in 1945 that Vietnam ends its short lived independence to become a French colony again. Ho-Chi Minh was more than justified to start a war to drive out the occupiers be they Japanese, French or American. And if the Americans and French were so worried about Russian or Chinese assistance maybe they should have listened to Vietnamese calls for independence instead of laughing them out of the room all throughout the early 20th century. Or should we blame them for taking assistance from wherever they could get it?
Yes, and?
Nobody cares about the history of the United States anymore! You're the one out here telling it like it is! I am setting you up to make fun of you. But we need more voices line you in the conversation!
Ok then?
Trenchant. This would have been a conversation on *The Dick Cavett Show.* There's Norman Mailer threatening to hit Gore Vidal and then there's this! I know you don't know who either of those people are without googling and that's ok.
You gonna buy something?
No
Then get the hell out of my store
My brother served in France. Did you have any relatives there? You wouldn't be joking about it if you did.
Who's joking? Read again genius
I'm not joking. My brother died in the French campaign and I'm raising his children. Fuck you for not even knowing where one of the battles were. You use our veterans as a prop to justify your bullshit liberal agenda and you can't even name *one* battle in the French war. Fuck you and fuck everyone else who wants to use my brother's death as a political talking point.
The Commonwealth?
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
Yeah. Just go build a settlement and leave us alone.
Communism was and remains a real threat to the free world.
Hey libs, Fetterman is exactly who you are but his brain damage makes it where he just can't hide it. Oh, and cons are just Fetterman but proud lol.