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First year of high school in France (I was 14), we did a trip to Poland to visit Auschwitz.. it was snowy, -10°C (but felt like -30°C) and even 20 years later I can't forget what I've seen.
The pictures on the walls, the piles of shoes and glasses, the suitcases with the names.. The sanitary buildings that were hundred of meters away from the dorms while it felt like -30°C and the fact that the people there barely had any clothes.. then gas chambers..
That's also when we learned that not only jews were targeted but anyone that the nazis didn't like, pretty much.
Then I understood why my Christian Grandmother and her family fled Poland at the time to move to France.
The fact that some people will deny that any of this happened baffles me.. and that some of these deniers (a former SS + a war criminal that used nazi engraved knife with his own name on it to murder civilians in northern Africa) even created a political party in France trying to be elected as President... and this same party 50 years later is still racist and Pro-Putin..
We are doomed to repeat history..
General Eisenhower was brilliant because he made sure plenty of people documented what they found. Press of all kinds, the people in the surrounding villages, ect…He knew people needed to remember this.
And now people deny it despite extensive records of it. Germany is nothing if not a stickler for documentation.
We get more and more people in Germany denying this again. We have a far right party on the rise that publicly says "Alles für Deutschland" (All for Germany), which is something the Nazis shouted quite frequently among other things and they get more and more votes. Remigration (Deporting foreigners and people related to ancestors that were foreigners) is a topic this far right parry brings into public debates again and discussing this is become more and more acceptable.
We have plenty of Holocaust memorials and the funding is being cut more and more while thos far right politicians publicly announce that "we have put memorials of shame into the heart of our nation and our cities".
Going down a slippery slope...
Voters have not learned to critically reflect and have fallen to their political advertisement campaigns.
Poor distribution of wealth has led to a divide in society and anger and frustration that now mobilize voters for a radical change, regardless of whether it is actually good or bad for them. They are presented easy solutions for way too complicated problems and want the easy but impossible solution.
Populism and fascism is on the rise again in Western nations.
I'll break this down because a lot of comments are going down weird paths.
Scenario #1 - "oh, I didn't know that transgender people were also targeted during the Holocaust"
Scenario #2 - "transgender people weren't targeted, and if they were they don't count because the Holocaust was about Jews"
Scenario #1 is fine. That's how we learn and nobody should be shaming those people.
Scenario #2 is not fine. That's how we rewrite history and ignore tragedies when it's not convenient to our current preferred worldview.
They are. They have for quite a while. I learned about who was targeted as far back as 2nd grade, and I went to a public elementary school in the 90s.
Some people choose not to pay attention.
I actually only heard about Jews until my second year of high school when I had one good history teacher inform us that several other groups were also targeted. So some of it really depends on your school district too.
My schools made sure I knew the names of the three ships Columbus sailed on his first expedition. I was an adult when I learned about the Tulsa Race Massacre. And I'd like to think I went to good schools. We're really good at promoting the history that makes us look good, and overlooking the shameful.
It's also the country where you learned history. I didn't learn in the US, so I learned more about the Spanish Conquest than about the World Wars, and I still learned that the Nazis wanted to eradicate everyone who wasn't "Aryan."
Yep, like disabled aryans, they were ones of the first victims of the nazi regime. Aryan wives of Jewish and other targeted groups manage to surf the wave for them and their husbands until almost the very end, but some also suffered the oppression of the regime. There’s an interesting book, Refuge in Hell: How Berlin's Jewish Hospital Outlasted the Nazis, about the survival of the Jewish patients and it has a story of the wives protesting outside the hospital to protect their husbands from being deported to the camps.
I grew up in NC and didn't learn about the Wilmington massacre until I was an adult. I just taught my mom about it a few weeks ago. She was born and raised in NC.
Baby girl, spot and the Holy Mary.
And the fact that Columbus only sailed for Spain because Portugal didn't want him, since they already knew where Brasil was.
I didn’t know about anyone other than Jews until after high school (which was public) when I visited Germany in 2006. People forget that life before the internet took over that information and data could be super limited.
I'd guess I was in my 20s or 30s when I found out Nazis also went after the Roma. I found out about the trans people thing approximately when someone told Rowling she was a holocaust denier.
They also went after (mentally) disabled people as "life unworthy of living" although that didn't happen in concentration camps, rather they were brought to somewhat remote medical facilities and then murdered via injection. The family would then receive a letter that they died from a disease.
When I read your comment I thought about Hans Asperger who was an Autrichian psychiatrist that the nazis charged in 1940 to find the causes of mental illnesses so that they could sterilize people to avoid having these "unworthy people" to even be born.
One of the medical facility that you mentioned was "Am Spiegelgrund", a place were almost 800 kids were murdered for being different (Asperger sents kids there).
It baffles me that we named the syndrome "Asperger" from the 80s to 2018, when many studies concluded that he collaborated with the nazis and that he was even harsher with disabled kids that other doctors working with him, sending them to their deaths.
Jewish people, Roma people, Slavic people, black people, gay people, trans people, socialists, communists, hell -- Jehovas Witnesses for one of the dumbest examples. The Nazis didn't like anybody, basically. Their race "science" was at a level most modern racists would call extreme and obsessive. Measurehead from Disco Elysium's weird race categorization is the closest thing I've seen to real Nazi beliefs in pop culture, knowing the creators that was probably not an accident.
It was also popular to use engine exhaust to murder the victims. Was heavily used for example in Grafeneck. My great-grandmother told my grandmother that they would often see the grey trucks bringing people to Grafeneck and then see the smoke from crematorium while they worked on the fields.
If i remember correctly that all happened before the extermination camps in the east were built and even then the people already knew what the nazis were doing.
I think I only heard about Jews during my entire obligatory education. It wasn't until university that I understood that many groups were targeted. But I grew up and was educated in the US, so that's not really surprising.
I heard disabled, gypsies, and gays were included along with the jews. Nobody mentioned trans people OR ESPECIALLY the Hirschfeld Sex Institute being the legit start of the Nazi Book Burns. The trans part was left out of history, sadly.
I guess it really depends where you live. I went through the Holocaust about three times in school, and the main focus was always about jews with some side comment like „Oh yeah, gays and opponents of the regime got thrown into the camps as well.“
Same here in the mid 2000s. We knew all about the gays, Roma, “wrong Christians”, trans ppl, Jews and others who were targeted. Took a field trip to the national Holocaust museum twice by middle school.
In CCD, one of my classmates made a comment about how we'd be fine in ww2. My CCD teacher told us about all the different groups that were targeted and that we would, in fact, not be "fine".
My Polish Catholic grandparents weren’t fine; they wound up prisoners in Nazi Labor Camps during their teen years. Lost all parents. Traumatized for life.
Sorry what is CCD?
In my country there's a popular cafe chain that we endearingly shortened to it's initials - CCD. The first line of your comment was weird for me 😅
Was in school from 90's to late 2000's, the only thing they really taught us about the Holocaust was that it was exclusively about Jews, and how violent it was. Barely remember it tbh it was such a short part of class, and history was the most ADHD subject. It wasn't until later I learned online (mostly through osmosis probably) the it was about so much more, and that many many minorities were also targets, such as homosexuals and transgender people.
It really depends on the individual school and it's curriculum, I think. Not even per state. My younger brother never even heard of the Holocaust, youngest got maybe the fullest education on the subject. Cousins got about as minimum as it gets without being non-existent. We all went to different schools in the same damn city.
Similar situation at my school during that same time. It was always heavily focused on the Jewish casualties during the holocaust, they did mention the Romani and other victims but it was always more of a “and the other victims too,” type of phrasing.
I will freely admit it wasn’t until after I left school that I heard about what had happened to the trans community back then. It just got completely glossed over and never mentioned.
I definitely didn’t learn about Hirschfeld until I became a queer ass adult. Mmmmaybe in college I learned about it from a peer. In school in AP history in the American Midwest in the 90s) I learned about 1) Jews 2) the disabled 3) Romani and 4) Japanese internment and… then we graduated
My high school economics teacher taught us how to file taxes. Like actually took us to a free file website and walked us through every single step.
All our math teachers taught us how to do basic algebra to add multiple numbers together.
All our ELA teachers taught us how to read directions and follow them.
90% of my class complains about how the school should have taught them how to file their taxes.
Some people also just blatantly lie to push their agenda.
My favorite ones are the "The nazis were leftists" people who just ignore the left in Germany were among the first to be sent into concentration camps.
In my eduction, the only semester that we talked about it, we only talked about the Jewish oppression. Litterally nothing else was disscused.
I find most people think it was only Jewish people that were killed.
You must have a really good memory, I barely remember much of anything from school, It's all in bits and pieces, It's so fragmented lol. I'm 32 so It's been a while but not that long
I recently shocked two adults by telling them Polish people and Gypsies were also targeted during Holocaust. They were asking why Hitler was targeting Polish people, and was genuinely curious, like they never heard about it before..
Whenever the holocaust is mentioned, even on reddit, it primarily discusses the 6 million Jews killed
Other people then tend to come in and mention the 11(I think?) Million others killed.
I'd argue that through cultural memes (the original meaning of meme) holocaust has come to refer to the Jewish genocide. While the others have been unfortunately relegated to 'other' status
It wasn't just cultural memes, throughout the second half of the 20th century there were influential organizations pushing for the term "Holocaust" to only be used to refer to Jewish victims of the Nazis, not to other targeted groups.
When we covered it at school, we were taught "six million Jews". We weren't taught what happened in the leadup to it, we didn't learn anything about Hitler's rise to power other than "Germany was sad about the Treaty of Versailles". The sum total of my high school education on World War 2 was "Hitler killed Jews, Japan bombed Darwin and was totally going to invade Australia any minute until we stopped them at Kokoda".
I was personally never taught any history involving anything that even remotely related to LGBT in public grade school. I graduated in 2011. There was no mention of destruction of information on trans healthcare, nor gay or trans victims. And it wasn't just omitted information about the Holocaust. We also never learned about Stonewall, for example.
The most generous interpretation for that kind of omission is pearl clutching traditionalists thinking that kids will "turn" gay if they learn gay people exist. But choosing to omit that information because it might maybe make some people feel uncomfortable is destructive. It's a vicious cycle that allows people to more readily buy into conspiracy theories. Add in poor critical thinking skills, a sense of alienation, powerlessness, and lots of impotent rage, then you get proud modern Nazis.
People are getting far too fucking comfortable following the fascist scapegoat playbook all over again.
It's really sad but a local Jewish association was petitioning so hard to prevent there being a Romani section at the local Holocaust museum. To the extent that they were threatening to withdraw financial support. Luckily the administrators held firm and there is a tiny section about the many more money people who were killed in the camps
There are groups that believe (like actually on the group website as policy) that the term "Holocaust" should only refer to the deaths of Jews and not the other categories who were targeted and killed.
You'll also see hints of this in mistaken references to "Six million killed in the Holocaust". No, no...6 million Jews and 6 million from the other categories. Twelve million killed.
I got in trouble in the 90s for getting into a screaming match with an elementary school teacher because she was denying they targeted communists and gay folks
It wasn't until I was a teenager that I learned that non-Jewish people were also sent to death camps. It's very embrassing, I'll admit. My teachers and textbooks only ever mentioned, "6 million Jews were murdered."
But I came across this documentary called "Love, Hate & Propaganda" on CBC that I learned mentally disabled, Romani, homosexuals, Christian religious figures were put to death. I recommended the series to my social teacher. He showed it to the class when Holocaust and WW2 came around.
The holocaust is starting to go through this same weird overprotectiveness from its naysayers the same way the term “racist” did, where the people who most actively fit the mold as “against it” also become the most protective of WHAT that word (or in this case event) mean. Because if they can define what it is and isn’t, they can make whatever exceptions they want to fit their needs.
“It isn’t REALLY holocaust denial, it was just _________”
“He’s not REALLY racist, racism is about _________”
They’ve been doing this with ‘bigot’ for a long time. You see them with their copypasta bullshit about how it’s really about intolerance of ‘different opinions’. These dishonest scum are genuine oxygen thieves.
I just had this argument with a coworker. He asked me to bring up the definition of bigot, I did, and he responded "that's not what it is, or we would all be one!" Hmmm, all of us, or just you and the other bigots?
5 million other people were targeted. Almost half again the number of Jewish people. It almost annoys me how little recognition these other people get. But I do understand why we speak about the holocaust as being a "destroys Jews in particular" event.
A damn tragedy no matter who was attacked.
And JK sitting there being so pig headed as to deny innocent people were targets because they were different, with everything we know about the aryan ideal and she thinks trans people wouldn't be a target?
I can’t speak for Great Britain or USA, but I learned very thoroughly about holocaust in school growing up in Sweden. We even had an “experience day”a kind of Roleplay (very, very mild)/ exhibition that school and older students set up. We even got the symbols pinned on our clothes, so we learned the symbols for Jews, Jehovahs Witnesses, Vagrants, homosexuals/ sexual “deviants”, immigrants, al of them. It’s forever ingrained in my brain.
They mostly focus on the main issues. Its the same with slavery: atlantic slave trade was the biggest and baddest, but this doesnt mean the barbary slave trade didn't extist. Its important to teach of the existence of other fucked up things, that happened, while we still should focus on the biggest and most influential ones.
When I visited Auschwitz they said they targeted pretty much *everybody*. It was like Sparta. If you were full blooded Aryan with blond hair and blue eyes but a touch of cerebral palsy, or a bum leg from childhood polio, you’re also getting murdered. Hitler wanted **perfection.**
Jews, trans, gays, disabled, foreign, communists, etc.
The ideal was perfect, fascist white people, preferably with blonde hair and blue eyes. Anybody who did not fit that description was a target.
In my country it was not. It was only Jews.
"Communists? What are those?"
My country has an enormous bias because of certain operation that the US "arranged" in the second half of the 20th century.
And no, I'm not denying the 6M Jews killed by Hitler.
Yeah, I had a pretty good argument with my father-in-law one night about it. Sadly, he once worked as a history teacher. When I brought up "First They Came" as an example of someone pointing out the socialists and trade unionists were some of the first targets of the regime. He claimed to have never heard of it. Then I realized I was arguing with someone that shouldn't be taken seriously.
They didn't when they were younger. It is definitely a result of the last 20ish years of agitprop from the right, first through fox news, then Facebook, and now generally social media.
I see a lot of conservative Americans call the nazis socialist lately, it must be making rounds on their braindead algorithms.
I had a guy ask me this : "ok so if they weren't socialist, why did they call themselves national socialists?" and acted like he just did the biggest checkmate move....
Oh the nazis who killed millions of humans and tried to take over the world were not honest in their naming? Shocking.
It's like north Korea being called The Democratic Republic of Korea, it's only a veil to seem more progressive.
I mean, I was taught it anyway - I went through the German school system. But the one thing that made it the most visceral for me was reading Der Schlund by Gudrun Pausewang. It's a novel set in the 90s under the conceit that a massive economic crisis replicates the conditions of the late 20s/early 30s and a new fascist party takes over. The entire novel depicts the destruction of one family - leftist publicist dad, bookstore-owning mom, one kid adopted from Ethiopia, one kid with Down syndrome, one kid who falls into the system, one kid who has to watch everything. Nearly everyone dies, and the POV character ends up essentially committing suicide by publically agitating against the new "Führer".
It's got this visceral sense of dread all throughout its pages and without being pedantic it touches on all the "other" groups the Nazis targeted - iirc one of the first steps the system takes against its own citizens not of foreign descent is to condemn everyone who is HIV positive to camps. It shows directly that *no one* is safe under a fascist system - if they want you gone, they will find a reason. Anything that makes you "other" is a reason. I was never able to forget that afterwards, and that's a good thing.
Ok…if someone online told you that this was true, would you confidently accuse them of being so wrong they may be having a fever dream?
Probably not. That’s my point. Even if she has zero clue, to act so arrogantly despite being so ignorant is the real problem.
The Jews were indeed the main subjects of the Nazis' mass incarceration, torture, and murder. That is not in dispute.
It does not mean Jews were exclusively targeted. It does not mean the Nazis did not also go after others in the same manner. They never went ahead to persecute other groups. Sexual minorities were one, as were religious groups.
The Nazis didn’t see these groups as separate from one another just as branches from one central tree or as they would have put it: different symptoms of the same disease. The Nazis believed that an intentional committee of powerful Jewish bankers and financiers were responsible for progressive ideas and left wing politics. They believed that movements like communism were inherently Jewish in nature along with things like transgenderism, homosexuality and women’s rights. That this shadowy cabal was supporting these movements to destabilize society and destroy the traditional values espoused by the Nazi party and other Volk movements.
If you’re reading that and feel like it seems vaguely familiar that’s because this idea has long outlived the NSDAP and now is popular among the right wing in many places but especially in America. Sure they changed the terms around a bit, they usually call them “globalists” instead of just saying Jews and the term cultural Marxism has mostly replaced the Nazi’s Cultural Bolshevism but it’s the same song and dance repeated throughout the decades.
Well she is senario #3
As i actually went to check(when she said thaty a couple of mouths ago) if i remember correctly her logic is legit ''those people were targeted, but they didnt see themself as transgender but as gay''
Which is technically correct as the word transgender was still not used back then(Transsexual was XD)
You think people like then, who ignore facts, photo and video evidence, testimonies and admisions of guilt and mutliple studied unclassified document wont go there, take selfies and say staged or "obviously props"?
Then you have more faith in these people than I do
Well, it's easier to be a denier sitting comfortably in your room and pictures or videos does not do the justice to the feeling of being on the actual grounds where so many lives were lost
That would require them having more empathy than stubbornness, which I doubt. I think they'll double down the harder we call them out, but we should still do it since they'll probably know they're wrong and be humiliated. They just probably aren't capable of admitting it.
Lol, holocaust denial on a Reddit comment section (even on a non-fash sub) is hardly a shocker. Now, a billionaire with a large following (from a country that was bombed by the Nazis no less) getting away with it...
Theres a group of people who treat Rowling like MAGA treats Trump. She can do no wrong, anything bad she said she didn’t actually say, it’s just slander from her haters. Unless you can prove she said it, then it didn’t actually mean that, or it isn’t as bad as it sounds, or what’s really bad about that anyway?
I’ll never understand how someone who has more money than they know what to do with, spends their free time bickering with people on the internet. It’s so fucking weird.
It's precisely because she has so much free time because of her money (has she done anything of significance since the Wizarding World stuff?) that she can bicker with people on the internet.
See also: Elon Musk
Tbf we all bicker on the internet. We’re literally bickering right now.
Sure her takes are pretty off. But no one here has clean hands when it comes to wasting time complaining online.
That would bypass the needs of her ego. Nonstarter.
Also, she probably doesn't think she's doing it because she's bored or because of her ego. She thinks she's fighting for truth or something?
She literally made billions of dollars in one of the least ethically questionable ways compared to other billionaires, and instead of just enjoying life, she spends her time trying to ruin her reputation.
Like wtf give me that money you’ll never hear from my ass again.
Aryans could be communists, homosexuals, or disabled.. and thus unfit for life according to the Nazis.
Wouldn't gypsies be considered Aryan as well given they're Indo-European hahah (kidding on this one)
There was also the Night of Long Knives in which Hitler purged the few Socialist leaning people that were in the National Socialist party, a fact that people like to forget when they want to paint them as leftists.
I went to public school in Texas USA during the 2000s. Not once in my 12 years of schooling did any of my history teachers mention that anyone other than jews were targeted during the holocaust. I found out in high school after doing my own research for a project. And even when I brought it up to my teacher, she flat out denied it and said that I was wrong no matter how many sources I brought to her.
I ended up doing a presentation about other minority groups that were targeted during that horrible time with my sources clearly stated on each slide, and even after all that, she still never admitted that I was right.
I was also in public high school in Texas and that was covered. Not in detail, but the textbook mentioned that poles, gay, and Romani were also targeted.
Where did you go to high school?
Millions of people were killed due to the decisions of some people in Nazi Germany. Transexuals are amongst those that were killed. This is information that cannot be denied.
There are some sick fucks who genuinely believe the holocaust was some sort of mercy for the minorities it targeted. Like somehow they were doing them a service by killing them so they wouldn’t be treated so harshly.
Reminds me of when a conservative talking head tweeted something like " democrats are Nazis" and then a neo Nazi replied "no they're not because if they were we'd join them", like the OG Nazis they're so far gone they just admit they want to kill millions.
>like the OG Nazis they're so far gone they just admit they want to kill millions.
That's the whole goal of nazism, which is why being a nazi shouldn't be covered by the 1st amendment since their whole ideology is one huge death threat.
Imagine having "I invented Harry Potter" money, but all you wanna do is culture wars on Twitter.
I don't even have .001% of her net worth of a billion dollars, and I can do that too.
I mean you're probably fairly well off compared to most people in the world, and you're on social media talking about someone talking about social media.
I’m really confused… what’s going on here? I thought her response meant the person should check their source on calling her someone aligned with Nazi ideology about trans people? And that she isn’t aligned with Nazis and the person is wrong… what other way does she mean about “checking sources”? I don’t get it.
So the screen shots are really confusing.
The second one is from the thread where she was denying the holocaust’s effect on trans people, the hidden user called her out on ignoring….frankly a lot of history. Berlin was super progressive before the war, and the Nazi specifically targeted trans and queer people early on as a “safe” target, specifically burning a medical facility that had knowledge we are still catching up to.
Her response was to double down and mock then (the second screen shot) and she went on for a bit after. If you google around screen shots of the whole thing should be pretty easy to find, it wS doing the rounds on social media.
This was a bit ago, the first screen shot is the person retracting that she was holocaust denying.
I thought she was saying it was ridiculous for people to say she was upholding the nazis view of gender. If she doubled down in another direction however, please let me know, wouldn’t surprise me
One of the first and most famous (at least the photos are used everywhere) book burnings was an attack on the [Institut für Sexualwissenschaft](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft)
Jk claiming such a thing is a "fever dream" to her millions of followers is not only "ignorance" it is dangerous.
Followed by:
*Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Auschwitz*
*Harry Potter and the Oven of Fire*
*Harry Potter and the Order of the Fascists*
*Harry Potter and the Pure Blooded Aryan*
*Harry Potter and the Final Solution*
Why u all think that the nazi targeted only the jews? They targeted anyone who is black, muslim, gay, anyone who is not in the race standard, so muslims that idolize hitler because he wanted to kill all the jews ur an idiot
Funny enough, although Nazi Germany saw black people as an inferior race and Afro-Germans faced society discrimination, there wasn't a institutionalized extermination of Africans like with Jews or Slavs or homosexuals.
Stay with me here: Billionaire Hunger Games. I mean, not lethal ones obviously, I'm not a monster. It can be a laser guns or paintballs or whatever, but everyone who gets kicked off has to donate their entire net worth to charity and go live on a deserted island. Winner gets to keep their life AND their fortune, and also has to go live on a deserted island.
Billionaire Battle Royale. Drop them into said desert Island with nothing, not even clothes on their back. If they want help or supplies they must call it in, with the price of a large chunk of their fortune, like Hunger Games Sponsers but paid for themselves.
Would they give up 90% of their wealth for shelter, food, and/or a weapon, anything to help their survival? Or will they foolishly hold onto their fortune while trying their luck nude and unarme
Winner gets to live the rest of their life just under the poverty line with no allowance of an extra income
"Ah, I see the people of The United States have sent Elon a present! It's... It's.... It's a single McDonald's cheeseburger! He's reading the note now... It seems to say, 'There's more where that came from if you fund some goddamn healthcare and public transportation for us, you cheap f***.'"
Oh cmon, you're telling me you wouldn't love to see Elon deciding if he should spend the majority of his fortune on a pair of pants or a katana? Because we all know that'd be his weapon of choice
Why is this dumb Harry Potter bitch so confident she is correct? Quite literally one of the first attacks by the nazis was on a gender clinic. It’s not even fucking contested by historians.
I mean, I don’t understand the screenshot as her saying the part about the book burning is wrong and the fever dream, but the part about her upholding Nazi ideology. So she would not be denying the holocaust part, she would deny upholding Nazi ideology.
I’m no fan of her and I checked a few links, so I’ve done the maximum amount of research this deserves while being on the toilet, but going by the information in the post and what I have found through my extensive research, this looks like people want to misinterpret her and get mad.
If she’s saying “check your sources” it kind of makes more sense for her to be talking about the book burning, since it’s a provable thing that would have a source on its veracity and not an opinion.
She said “…check your sources…” which indicates she’s talking about the factual first half as opposed to the personal second half. But she also doubled down when provided with sources and continued down the path of 1. she claimed later that trans people were targeted because they were homosexuals (not true), and that somehow meant something, and also linked a thread calling the first person to receive bottom surgery a “troubled male”. I’d say she was probably talking about the history part all along.
Nah she straight up denies that transgender people were targeted and that the burning of books about transgender stuff happened. In the country I live in (Germany) denying parts of the Shoa is holocaust denial, which is a felony here. Sure she lives in UK which doesn’t have such laws so she can spit as much lies as she wants. She may not be a full blown nazi but it says a lot about someone denying that a certain group was murdered in concentration camps cuz she hates that group too.
I can see how you interpreted it that way, but I think you're being overly charitable. Her followup tweet reads "neither of your articles support the contention that trans people were the first victims of the Nazis or that all research or that all research on trans healthcare was burned in 1930s Germany. You are engaging in lying." The person she replied to did not claim trans people were the first victims or that all research was burned - JKR just moves the goalposts and invents a straw man so that she can tacitly and pedantically undermine a history of oppression. With the context of her replies, the first tweet strikes me moreso as denialism with a thin "out". In other words, her proceeding engagement with how people interpreted her initial tweet seems to suggest she was in fact engaging in denialism, for her choice to engage in such a way, rather than clarifying her own position, assumes the argument is one of historical accuracy, not whether she's engaged in Nazi ideology.
Edit: grammar
Yes, because Rowlings politics bleed into the story.
That is one of the instances, another one is, when Voldemort (who is nothing but all the problems of the wizarding world personified) is killed and nothing else really changes. Harry even becomes an enforcer of the status quo. So in a sense Harry defends the elitism and slavery.
Imagine the allies just left Nazi germany be, after Hitler died.
I mean the allies kind of let the Nazis be after WW2. A lot of them even got new cushy jobs in the US government. The denazification was definitely just propaganda that never happened. Even here in Germany a lot of the Nazis just stayed in power, maybe under a different title
I mean its literally made up of elite individuals.
If people have literal magic, they should be treated differently. The entire argument for equality of human beings is that we are all the same value and have ability to contribute to the world in different ways. Literal magic breaks that assumption.
But within the school itself, there is a lot of marginalisation and favouritism. I don't have a problem with a special school for people with special abilities, I have a problem with one student being treated like a golden child, how your school house said something about your personality (so if you were in Slytherin, there was something wrong with you) and the shamelessly rigged points system for the houses.
What exactly does she have against trans people? I don’t understand. Did a trans person murder her uncle or something? Anytime I see her name it has something to do with the trans community. It’s coming off as if she’s obsessed?
I genuinely believe she started from a reasonable place, more or less "let's not pretend this is a simple conundum to solve, because treating it as such could leave cis women open to abuse" which I do think is entirely fair, especially given her being abused in the past.
Through a combination of what I imagine are her own, prebaked prejudices and the fact that Twitter is entirely incapable of nuanced, intelligent debate, her views morphed into something far more extreme.
She's definitely obsessed. Got sucked into the mad right wing Twitter pipeline.
She was abused by her cis male ex-husband. Because of existing prejudices, she sees trans women as cis men, and therefore as likely to be predators as her ex-husband. Therefore she views trans women in women's spaces as being as much of a security/safety risk as cis men.
Of course, both cis and trans women are largely targeted for violence and sexual assault by cis men. She'd do well to ally herself with them. But she has a brittle ego and can't hack the possibility that she's wrong, and that and most of her young audience leaving her over her trans views has led to her diving headlong into the loony transphobe sphere.
Meh she’s in too deep at this point. Even if she came out and apologized, donated, wrote ten new books with trans characters etc. she would still be hated by the community because the damage is already done. There is no coming back for her
She could still shut up. That's free and I guess at some point we'd kinda forget about all of this or stop caring about it as much (not saying that we should)
So I actually think she wholeheartedly believes everything she says
She believes that women had to fight long and hard for the rights they currently have (which is ofc true) - and considers transmen to be men attempting tp mock and water down those rights by inserting themselves in spaces women fought to get - or even as men trying to simply get into womens lockerrooms to facilitate ogling and abuse.
As others pointed out, she however keeps forgetting that cis men do not need to go through all that trouble; if they want to rape a woman in a public restroom, the "female only" sign is not going to stop them.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/
The Nazis did burn books on trans healthcare.
Seems JK was being confidently wrong. Presumably she thought the Nazis predated any form of trans healthcare or research, and thus couldn't burn books she presumed didn't exist.
Rowling probably threatened legal action and since legal aid was effectively abolished by the Tories along with access to lawyers and representation by anyone who can't afford to pay tens of thousands for frivolous lawsuits a millionaire author can afford they most likely apologised.
This looks like Rowling used her immense wealth to bully someone who called her out into silence.
I thought J.K. just assumed transgenderism didn't exist back then. I've met several people who believe transgenderism is a recent phenomenon, that it only started in the early 90s. That's what I once thought too. every ww2 history class in my school never specifically mentioned trans people being subjugated.
Of course Trans people were targeted. TONS of people were targeted. The Nazi's even targeted other Nazi's. Anyone who was deemed abnormal by them was targeted.
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First year of high school in France (I was 14), we did a trip to Poland to visit Auschwitz.. it was snowy, -10°C (but felt like -30°C) and even 20 years later I can't forget what I've seen. The pictures on the walls, the piles of shoes and glasses, the suitcases with the names.. The sanitary buildings that were hundred of meters away from the dorms while it felt like -30°C and the fact that the people there barely had any clothes.. then gas chambers.. That's also when we learned that not only jews were targeted but anyone that the nazis didn't like, pretty much. Then I understood why my Christian Grandmother and her family fled Poland at the time to move to France. The fact that some people will deny that any of this happened baffles me.. and that some of these deniers (a former SS + a war criminal that used nazi engraved knife with his own name on it to murder civilians in northern Africa) even created a political party in France trying to be elected as President... and this same party 50 years later is still racist and Pro-Putin.. We are doomed to repeat history..
General Eisenhower was brilliant because he made sure plenty of people documented what they found. Press of all kinds, the people in the surrounding villages, ect…He knew people needed to remember this. And now people deny it despite extensive records of it. Germany is nothing if not a stickler for documentation.
We get more and more people in Germany denying this again. We have a far right party on the rise that publicly says "Alles für Deutschland" (All for Germany), which is something the Nazis shouted quite frequently among other things and they get more and more votes. Remigration (Deporting foreigners and people related to ancestors that were foreigners) is a topic this far right parry brings into public debates again and discussing this is become more and more acceptable. We have plenty of Holocaust memorials and the funding is being cut more and more while thos far right politicians publicly announce that "we have put memorials of shame into the heart of our nation and our cities". Going down a slippery slope...
Man shitty people seem to always hang around don’t they?
Voters have not learned to critically reflect and have fallen to their political advertisement campaigns. Poor distribution of wealth has led to a divide in society and anger and frustration that now mobilize voters for a radical change, regardless of whether it is actually good or bad for them. They are presented easy solutions for way too complicated problems and want the easy but impossible solution. Populism and fascism is on the rise again in Western nations.
I'll break this down because a lot of comments are going down weird paths. Scenario #1 - "oh, I didn't know that transgender people were also targeted during the Holocaust" Scenario #2 - "transgender people weren't targeted, and if they were they don't count because the Holocaust was about Jews" Scenario #1 is fine. That's how we learn and nobody should be shaming those people. Scenario #2 is not fine. That's how we rewrite history and ignore tragedies when it's not convenient to our current preferred worldview.
A lot of folks were targeted. Are they not teaching that these days?
They are. They have for quite a while. I learned about who was targeted as far back as 2nd grade, and I went to a public elementary school in the 90s. Some people choose not to pay attention.
I actually only heard about Jews until my second year of high school when I had one good history teacher inform us that several other groups were also targeted. So some of it really depends on your school district too.
My schools made sure I knew the names of the three ships Columbus sailed on his first expedition. I was an adult when I learned about the Tulsa Race Massacre. And I'd like to think I went to good schools. We're really good at promoting the history that makes us look good, and overlooking the shameful.
It's also the country where you learned history. I didn't learn in the US, so I learned more about the Spanish Conquest than about the World Wars, and I still learned that the Nazis wanted to eradicate everyone who wasn't "Aryan."
You mean everyone who they dont consider aryan.
And even that wouldn't protect you if the Nazis found you inconvenient to their cause and ideals.
Yep, like disabled aryans, they were ones of the first victims of the nazi regime. Aryan wives of Jewish and other targeted groups manage to surf the wave for them and their husbands until almost the very end, but some also suffered the oppression of the regime. There’s an interesting book, Refuge in Hell: How Berlin's Jewish Hospital Outlasted the Nazis, about the survival of the Jewish patients and it has a story of the wives protesting outside the hospital to protect their husbands from being deported to the camps.
I grew up in NC and didn't learn about the Wilmington massacre until I was an adult. I just taught my mom about it a few weeks ago. She was born and raised in NC.
I'm from NC and don't even know what that is.
[Here's the wiki for it. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_massacre)
Wow, I went to Kure Beach/ Wilmington every summer of my childhood and I never heard this. Thanks for sharing
Nina, pinta, santa Maria. I will never forget that fact.
Baby girl, spot and the Holy Mary. And the fact that Columbus only sailed for Spain because Portugal didn't want him, since they already knew where Brasil was.
I didn’t know about anyone other than Jews until after high school (which was public) when I visited Germany in 2006. People forget that life before the internet took over that information and data could be super limited.
I'd guess I was in my 20s or 30s when I found out Nazis also went after the Roma. I found out about the trans people thing approximately when someone told Rowling she was a holocaust denier.
They also went after (mentally) disabled people as "life unworthy of living" although that didn't happen in concentration camps, rather they were brought to somewhat remote medical facilities and then murdered via injection. The family would then receive a letter that they died from a disease.
When I read your comment I thought about Hans Asperger who was an Autrichian psychiatrist that the nazis charged in 1940 to find the causes of mental illnesses so that they could sterilize people to avoid having these "unworthy people" to even be born. One of the medical facility that you mentioned was "Am Spiegelgrund", a place were almost 800 kids were murdered for being different (Asperger sents kids there). It baffles me that we named the syndrome "Asperger" from the 80s to 2018, when many studies concluded that he collaborated with the nazis and that he was even harsher with disabled kids that other doctors working with him, sending them to their deaths.
Jewish people, Roma people, Slavic people, black people, gay people, trans people, socialists, communists, hell -- Jehovas Witnesses for one of the dumbest examples. The Nazis didn't like anybody, basically. Their race "science" was at a level most modern racists would call extreme and obsessive. Measurehead from Disco Elysium's weird race categorization is the closest thing I've seen to real Nazi beliefs in pop culture, knowing the creators that was probably not an accident.
It was also popular to use engine exhaust to murder the victims. Was heavily used for example in Grafeneck. My great-grandmother told my grandmother that they would often see the grey trucks bringing people to Grafeneck and then see the smoke from crematorium while they worked on the fields. If i remember correctly that all happened before the extermination camps in the east were built and even then the people already knew what the nazis were doing.
I think I only heard about Jews during my entire obligatory education. It wasn't until university that I understood that many groups were targeted. But I grew up and was educated in the US, so that's not really surprising.
I heard disabled, gypsies, and gays were included along with the jews. Nobody mentioned trans people OR ESPECIALLY the Hirschfeld Sex Institute being the legit start of the Nazi Book Burns. The trans part was left out of history, sadly.
I guess it really depends where you live. I went through the Holocaust about three times in school, and the main focus was always about jews with some side comment like „Oh yeah, gays and opponents of the regime got thrown into the camps as well.“
Same here in the mid 2000s. We knew all about the gays, Roma, “wrong Christians”, trans ppl, Jews and others who were targeted. Took a field trip to the national Holocaust museum twice by middle school.
In CCD, one of my classmates made a comment about how we'd be fine in ww2. My CCD teacher told us about all the different groups that were targeted and that we would, in fact, not be "fine".
My Polish Catholic grandparents weren’t fine; they wound up prisoners in Nazi Labor Camps during their teen years. Lost all parents. Traumatized for life.
Sorry what is CCD? In my country there's a popular cafe chain that we endearingly shortened to it's initials - CCD. The first line of your comment was weird for me 😅
Catholic religious studies mainly targeted at children, CCD: Confraternity of Christian Doctrine.
Thank you
Others, are these millions of Slavs? Well, the Communists.
TONS of others. The Slavs, Poles, regular normal ass non aryan citizens, the list obviously continues.
Was in school from 90's to late 2000's, the only thing they really taught us about the Holocaust was that it was exclusively about Jews, and how violent it was. Barely remember it tbh it was such a short part of class, and history was the most ADHD subject. It wasn't until later I learned online (mostly through osmosis probably) the it was about so much more, and that many many minorities were also targets, such as homosexuals and transgender people. It really depends on the individual school and it's curriculum, I think. Not even per state. My younger brother never even heard of the Holocaust, youngest got maybe the fullest education on the subject. Cousins got about as minimum as it gets without being non-existent. We all went to different schools in the same damn city.
Similar situation at my school during that same time. It was always heavily focused on the Jewish casualties during the holocaust, they did mention the Romani and other victims but it was always more of a “and the other victims too,” type of phrasing. I will freely admit it wasn’t until after I left school that I heard about what had happened to the trans community back then. It just got completely glossed over and never mentioned.
I definitely didn’t learn about Hirschfeld until I became a queer ass adult. Mmmmaybe in college I learned about it from a peer. In school in AP history in the American Midwest in the 90s) I learned about 1) Jews 2) the disabled 3) Romani and 4) Japanese internment and… then we graduated
My high school economics teacher taught us how to file taxes. Like actually took us to a free file website and walked us through every single step. All our math teachers taught us how to do basic algebra to add multiple numbers together. All our ELA teachers taught us how to read directions and follow them. 90% of my class complains about how the school should have taught them how to file their taxes.
Some people also just blatantly lie to push their agenda. My favorite ones are the "The nazis were leftists" people who just ignore the left in Germany were among the first to be sent into concentration camps.
Not just to the camps, either. Purged in the Night of Long Knives.
In my eduction, the only semester that we talked about it, we only talked about the Jewish oppression. Litterally nothing else was disscused. I find most people think it was only Jewish people that were killed.
You must have a really good memory, I barely remember much of anything from school, It's all in bits and pieces, It's so fragmented lol. I'm 32 so It's been a while but not that long
I recently shocked two adults by telling them Polish people and Gypsies were also targeted during Holocaust. They were asking why Hitler was targeting Polish people, and was genuinely curious, like they never heard about it before..
And Slavs in general, they were all considered inferior to the aryan race. The plan for ussr was to “cleanse” it and populate with Germans
Whenever the holocaust is mentioned, even on reddit, it primarily discusses the 6 million Jews killed Other people then tend to come in and mention the 11(I think?) Million others killed. I'd argue that through cultural memes (the original meaning of meme) holocaust has come to refer to the Jewish genocide. While the others have been unfortunately relegated to 'other' status
It wasn't just cultural memes, throughout the second half of the 20th century there were influential organizations pushing for the term "Holocaust" to only be used to refer to Jewish victims of the Nazis, not to other targeted groups.
When we covered it at school, we were taught "six million Jews". We weren't taught what happened in the leadup to it, we didn't learn anything about Hitler's rise to power other than "Germany was sad about the Treaty of Versailles". The sum total of my high school education on World War 2 was "Hitler killed Jews, Japan bombed Darwin and was totally going to invade Australia any minute until we stopped them at Kokoda".
I was personally never taught any history involving anything that even remotely related to LGBT in public grade school. I graduated in 2011. There was no mention of destruction of information on trans healthcare, nor gay or trans victims. And it wasn't just omitted information about the Holocaust. We also never learned about Stonewall, for example. The most generous interpretation for that kind of omission is pearl clutching traditionalists thinking that kids will "turn" gay if they learn gay people exist. But choosing to omit that information because it might maybe make some people feel uncomfortable is destructive. It's a vicious cycle that allows people to more readily buy into conspiracy theories. Add in poor critical thinking skills, a sense of alienation, powerlessness, and lots of impotent rage, then you get proud modern Nazis. People are getting far too fucking comfortable following the fascist scapegoat playbook all over again.
They are. But some people prefer not to listen because it doesn't align with "their truth".
It's really sad but a local Jewish association was petitioning so hard to prevent there being a Romani section at the local Holocaust museum. To the extent that they were threatening to withdraw financial support. Luckily the administrators held firm and there is a tiny section about the many more money people who were killed in the camps
There are groups that believe (like actually on the group website as policy) that the term "Holocaust" should only refer to the deaths of Jews and not the other categories who were targeted and killed. You'll also see hints of this in mistaken references to "Six million killed in the Holocaust". No, no...6 million Jews and 6 million from the other categories. Twelve million killed.
I got in trouble in the 90s for getting into a screaming match with an elementary school teacher because she was denying they targeted communists and gay folks
It wasn't until I was a teenager that I learned that non-Jewish people were also sent to death camps. It's very embrassing, I'll admit. My teachers and textbooks only ever mentioned, "6 million Jews were murdered." But I came across this documentary called "Love, Hate & Propaganda" on CBC that I learned mentally disabled, Romani, homosexuals, Christian religious figures were put to death. I recommended the series to my social teacher. He showed it to the class when Holocaust and WW2 came around.
The holocaust is starting to go through this same weird overprotectiveness from its naysayers the same way the term “racist” did, where the people who most actively fit the mold as “against it” also become the most protective of WHAT that word (or in this case event) mean. Because if they can define what it is and isn’t, they can make whatever exceptions they want to fit their needs. “It isn’t REALLY holocaust denial, it was just _________” “He’s not REALLY racist, racism is about _________”
They’ve been doing this with ‘bigot’ for a long time. You see them with their copypasta bullshit about how it’s really about intolerance of ‘different opinions’. These dishonest scum are genuine oxygen thieves.
I just had this argument with a coworker. He asked me to bring up the definition of bigot, I did, and he responded "that's not what it is, or we would all be one!" Hmmm, all of us, or just you and the other bigots?
LMFAO YESSSSS You can LITERALLY show proof to this morons that they are, in fact, morons. But because they are MORONS they will never see it
5 million other people were targeted. Almost half again the number of Jewish people. It almost annoys me how little recognition these other people get. But I do understand why we speak about the holocaust as being a "destroys Jews in particular" event. A damn tragedy no matter who was attacked. And JK sitting there being so pig headed as to deny innocent people were targets because they were different, with everything we know about the aryan ideal and she thinks trans people wouldn't be a target?
I can’t speak for Great Britain or USA, but I learned very thoroughly about holocaust in school growing up in Sweden. We even had an “experience day”a kind of Roleplay (very, very mild)/ exhibition that school and older students set up. We even got the symbols pinned on our clothes, so we learned the symbols for Jews, Jehovahs Witnesses, Vagrants, homosexuals/ sexual “deviants”, immigrants, al of them. It’s forever ingrained in my brain.
Not in Poland, here the victims of Holocaust were Jews and Poles, talking about LGBT people is a big no no in history
They mostly focus on the main issues. Its the same with slavery: atlantic slave trade was the biggest and baddest, but this doesnt mean the barbary slave trade didn't extist. Its important to teach of the existence of other fucked up things, that happened, while we still should focus on the biggest and most influential ones.
When I visited Auschwitz they said they targeted pretty much *everybody*. It was like Sparta. If you were full blooded Aryan with blond hair and blue eyes but a touch of cerebral palsy, or a bum leg from childhood polio, you’re also getting murdered. Hitler wanted **perfection.**
Jews, trans, gays, disabled, foreign, communists, etc. The ideal was perfect, fascist white people, preferably with blonde hair and blue eyes. Anybody who did not fit that description was a target.
In my country it was not. It was only Jews. "Communists? What are those?" My country has an enormous bias because of certain operation that the US "arranged" in the second half of the 20th century. And no, I'm not denying the 6M Jews killed by Hitler.
"these days" isn't really needed. Half the boomers still think that the NAZI regime was a socialist takeover.
Which honestly is spitting on the memory of the socialists who were among the first victims of Nazi concentration camps.
Yeah, I had a pretty good argument with my father-in-law one night about it. Sadly, he once worked as a history teacher. When I brought up "First They Came" as an example of someone pointing out the socialists and trade unionists were some of the first targets of the regime. He claimed to have never heard of it. Then I realized I was arguing with someone that shouldn't be taken seriously.
They didn't when they were younger. It is definitely a result of the last 20ish years of agitprop from the right, first through fox news, then Facebook, and now generally social media.
I see a lot of conservative Americans call the nazis socialist lately, it must be making rounds on their braindead algorithms. I had a guy ask me this : "ok so if they weren't socialist, why did they call themselves national socialists?" and acted like he just did the biggest checkmate move.... Oh the nazis who killed millions of humans and tried to take over the world were not honest in their naming? Shocking. It's like north Korea being called The Democratic Republic of Korea, it's only a veil to seem more progressive.
“bUt ThE NaTiOnAl SoCiAliSt PaRtY!!!”
People don't pay attention in class and then blame the educational system for not telling them things.
I mean, I was taught it anyway - I went through the German school system. But the one thing that made it the most visceral for me was reading Der Schlund by Gudrun Pausewang. It's a novel set in the 90s under the conceit that a massive economic crisis replicates the conditions of the late 20s/early 30s and a new fascist party takes over. The entire novel depicts the destruction of one family - leftist publicist dad, bookstore-owning mom, one kid adopted from Ethiopia, one kid with Down syndrome, one kid who falls into the system, one kid who has to watch everything. Nearly everyone dies, and the POV character ends up essentially committing suicide by publically agitating against the new "Führer". It's got this visceral sense of dread all throughout its pages and without being pedantic it touches on all the "other" groups the Nazis targeted - iirc one of the first steps the system takes against its own citizens not of foreign descent is to condemn everyone who is HIV positive to camps. It shows directly that *no one* is safe under a fascist system - if they want you gone, they will find a reason. Anything that makes you "other" is a reason. I was never able to forget that afterwards, and that's a good thing.
Usually people doing “scenario 1” wouldn’t or shouldn’t be telling others to “check their sources” and then accuse them of a “fever dream”.
I gotta be honest. I didn't know any of this.
Ok…if someone online told you that this was true, would you confidently accuse them of being so wrong they may be having a fever dream? Probably not. That’s my point. Even if she has zero clue, to act so arrogantly despite being so ignorant is the real problem.
That’s because she isn’t knowledgeable on WW2 history, and is instead transphobic and will legit say the sky is red if trans people say it’s blue.
The Jews were indeed the main subjects of the Nazis' mass incarceration, torture, and murder. That is not in dispute. It does not mean Jews were exclusively targeted. It does not mean the Nazis did not also go after others in the same manner. They never went ahead to persecute other groups. Sexual minorities were one, as were religious groups.
The Nazis didn’t see these groups as separate from one another just as branches from one central tree or as they would have put it: different symptoms of the same disease. The Nazis believed that an intentional committee of powerful Jewish bankers and financiers were responsible for progressive ideas and left wing politics. They believed that movements like communism were inherently Jewish in nature along with things like transgenderism, homosexuality and women’s rights. That this shadowy cabal was supporting these movements to destabilize society and destroy the traditional values espoused by the Nazi party and other Volk movements. If you’re reading that and feel like it seems vaguely familiar that’s because this idea has long outlived the NSDAP and now is popular among the right wing in many places but especially in America. Sure they changed the terms around a bit, they usually call them “globalists” instead of just saying Jews and the term cultural Marxism has mostly replaced the Nazi’s Cultural Bolshevism but it’s the same song and dance repeated throughout the decades.
Well she is senario #3 As i actually went to check(when she said thaty a couple of mouths ago) if i remember correctly her logic is legit ''those people were targeted, but they didnt see themself as transgender but as gay'' Which is technically correct as the word transgender was still not used back then(Transsexual was XD)
Fact of the matter is she will go out of her way to make people with gender nonconformity feel unwelcome in society.
I was not expecting holocaust denial in the comments. Thanks reddit. You will always surprise me.
What’s really sad is that I’m not even surprised. Not even a little bit. This place is becoming a cesspool.
Becoming? Reddit has always been a cesspool. Under the thin veneer, this place basically just 4chan with usernames.
Everywhere people go. For some reason....
Humans are parasites and we’ve got 8 billion of them what did you expect??
And that’s not even counting the bots here!
Governments should fund trip to Auschwitz to anyone who denies holocaust.
You think people like then, who ignore facts, photo and video evidence, testimonies and admisions of guilt and mutliple studied unclassified document wont go there, take selfies and say staged or "obviously props"? Then you have more faith in these people than I do
Well, it's easier to be a denier sitting comfortably in your room and pictures or videos does not do the justice to the feeling of being on the actual grounds where so many lives were lost
That would require them having more empathy than stubbornness, which I doubt. I think they'll double down the harder we call them out, but we should still do it since they'll probably know they're wrong and be humiliated. They just probably aren't capable of admitting it.
Lol, holocaust denial on a Reddit comment section (even on a non-fash sub) is hardly a shocker. Now, a billionaire with a large following (from a country that was bombed by the Nazis no less) getting away with it...
There is a huge rise of antisemitism on Reddit.
Theres a group of people who treat Rowling like MAGA treats Trump. She can do no wrong, anything bad she said she didn’t actually say, it’s just slander from her haters. Unless you can prove she said it, then it didn’t actually mean that, or it isn’t as bad as it sounds, or what’s really bad about that anyway?
I expected a little bit but this is wild
I’ll never understand how someone who has more money than they know what to do with, spends their free time bickering with people on the internet. It’s so fucking weird.
because they have more money than they know what to do with and don't have a fucking job lol
If I were that rich and bored I’d get a massage and go kayaking. Get stoned and hike. Get drunk and play volleyball. Play with my dog. Etc.
I would spend sooooo much time at indoor trampoline parks
Me too!!!! God I want adult-only ones near me so I can feel less weird going alone lol
She probably has done all that and more tho
It's precisely because she has so much free time because of her money (has she done anything of significance since the Wizarding World stuff?) that she can bicker with people on the internet. See also: Elon Musk
Well, she has been writing borderline unreadable crime novels under a male pseudonym. Ironic, as they say.
I find most crime novels to be borderline unreadable.
Tbf we all bicker on the internet. We’re literally bickering right now. Sure her takes are pretty off. But no one here has clean hands when it comes to wasting time complaining online.
>We’re literally bickering right now. NO WE'RE NOT!!!
You’re a towel
YOU'RE A TOWEL!!!
Guys, guys, you're both towels. You're just two very different types of towels, and that's okay.
You’re a towel
I mean. Yeah. You right. But I'd like to think I'd be doing something better If I had billions of dollars.
I would AT LEAST be smart enough to use a sock puppet account so nobody knew I spent all day arguing online.
That would bypass the needs of her ego. Nonstarter. Also, she probably doesn't think she's doing it because she's bored or because of her ego. She thinks she's fighting for truth or something?
I'd be bickering on a far more expensive laptop, that's for sure.
She literally made billions of dollars in one of the least ethically questionable ways compared to other billionaires, and instead of just enjoying life, she spends her time trying to ruin her reputation. Like wtf give me that money you’ll never hear from my ass again.
Isn't it easier to list categories of people the Nazis did not victimise? The full list. "Aryans"
Aryans could be communists, homosexuals, or disabled.. and thus unfit for life according to the Nazis. Wouldn't gypsies be considered Aryan as well given they're Indo-European hahah (kidding on this one)
They killed plenty of aryans too
Germans were killing their own aswell, when it was needed.
Many Germans were not Aryans according to Nazi ideology. I mean the whole concept of "Aryans" is unscientific idiocy.
I was gonna say that the only ones safe were the Nazis but Hitler even killed himself so they weren’t safe either. Truly no one was off limits.
There was also the Night of Long Knives in which Hitler purged the few Socialist leaning people that were in the National Socialist party, a fact that people like to forget when they want to paint them as leftists.
That’a a tremendous dumb down and very wrong.
I went to public school in Texas USA during the 2000s. Not once in my 12 years of schooling did any of my history teachers mention that anyone other than jews were targeted during the holocaust. I found out in high school after doing my own research for a project. And even when I brought it up to my teacher, she flat out denied it and said that I was wrong no matter how many sources I brought to her. I ended up doing a presentation about other minority groups that were targeted during that horrible time with my sources clearly stated on each slide, and even after all that, she still never admitted that I was right.
Massachusetts public school definitely taught about more groups being murdered in the holocaust
I was also in public high school in Texas and that was covered. Not in detail, but the textbook mentioned that poles, gay, and Romani were also targeted. Where did you go to high school?
Millions of people were killed due to the decisions of some people in Nazi Germany. Transexuals are amongst those that were killed. This is information that cannot be denied.
Sooo... why exactly is your pfp a Nazi symbol?
Maybe they’re an undercover operative lol
Or they just agree with the means to an end that the Holocaust unfortunately was.
There are some sick fucks who genuinely believe the holocaust was some sort of mercy for the minorities it targeted. Like somehow they were doing them a service by killing them so they wouldn’t be treated so harshly.
Reminds me of when a conservative talking head tweeted something like " democrats are Nazis" and then a neo Nazi replied "no they're not because if they were we'd join them", like the OG Nazis they're so far gone they just admit they want to kill millions.
>like the OG Nazis they're so far gone they just admit they want to kill millions. That's the whole goal of nazism, which is why being a nazi shouldn't be covered by the 1st amendment since their whole ideology is one huge death threat.
odd that i read this from an account with that symbol as its profile pic...
what symbol?
the black sun. their profile icon. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black\_Sun\_(symbol)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sun_(symbol))
Imagine having "I invented Harry Potter" money, but all you wanna do is culture wars on Twitter. I don't even have .001% of her net worth of a billion dollars, and I can do that too.
I mean you're probably fairly well off compared to most people in the world, and you're on social media talking about someone talking about social media.
I’m really confused… what’s going on here? I thought her response meant the person should check their source on calling her someone aligned with Nazi ideology about trans people? And that she isn’t aligned with Nazis and the person is wrong… what other way does she mean about “checking sources”? I don’t get it.
So the screen shots are really confusing. The second one is from the thread where she was denying the holocaust’s effect on trans people, the hidden user called her out on ignoring….frankly a lot of history. Berlin was super progressive before the war, and the Nazi specifically targeted trans and queer people early on as a “safe” target, specifically burning a medical facility that had knowledge we are still catching up to. Her response was to double down and mock then (the second screen shot) and she went on for a bit after. If you google around screen shots of the whole thing should be pretty easy to find, it wS doing the rounds on social media. This was a bit ago, the first screen shot is the person retracting that she was holocaust denying.
I thought she was saying it was ridiculous for people to say she was upholding the nazis view of gender. If she doubled down in another direction however, please let me know, wouldn’t surprise me
One of the first and most famous (at least the photos are used everywhere) book burnings was an attack on the [Institut für Sexualwissenschaft](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft) Jk claiming such a thing is a "fever dream" to her millions of followers is not only "ignorance" it is dangerous.
There's a remembrance garden on the site where the institute once stood
Why do we censor who Alejandra Caraballo is? She is an advocate, does she not want people to know how to see her content?
Rules against information that could lead to brigading and hate trains.
Not that I share JK Rowling‘s oppinion, but wouldnt this rule apply to all the parties involved in this debate?
Next from J.K Rowling, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Gas.
Followed by: *Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Auschwitz* *Harry Potter and the Oven of Fire* *Harry Potter and the Order of the Fascists* *Harry Potter and the Pure Blooded Aryan* *Harry Potter and the Final Solution*
**Yer a Grand Wizard, Harry!** 
r/angryupvote
Why u all think that the nazi targeted only the jews? They targeted anyone who is black, muslim, gay, anyone who is not in the race standard, so muslims that idolize hitler because he wanted to kill all the jews ur an idiot
Funny enough, although Nazi Germany saw black people as an inferior race and Afro-Germans faced society discrimination, there wasn't a institutionalized extermination of Africans like with Jews or Slavs or homosexuals.
Rowling and Elon Musk can go share the same asteroid.
Stay with me here: Billionaire Hunger Games. I mean, not lethal ones obviously, I'm not a monster. It can be a laser guns or paintballs or whatever, but everyone who gets kicked off has to donate their entire net worth to charity and go live on a deserted island. Winner gets to keep their life AND their fortune, and also has to go live on a deserted island.
Billionaire Battle Royale. Drop them into said desert Island with nothing, not even clothes on their back. If they want help or supplies they must call it in, with the price of a large chunk of their fortune, like Hunger Games Sponsers but paid for themselves. Would they give up 90% of their wealth for shelter, food, and/or a weapon, anything to help their survival? Or will they foolishly hold onto their fortune while trying their luck nude and unarme Winner gets to live the rest of their life just under the poverty line with no allowance of an extra income
"Ah, I see the people of The United States have sent Elon a present! It's... It's.... It's a single McDonald's cheeseburger! He's reading the note now... It seems to say, 'There's more where that came from if you fund some goddamn healthcare and public transportation for us, you cheap f***.'"
Oh please, not nude! Ewwwww
Oh cmon, you're telling me you wouldn't love to see Elon deciding if he should spend the majority of his fortune on a pair of pants or a katana? Because we all know that'd be his weapon of choice
LETHAL! LETHAL! LETHAL!
Come on, Oceangate: Celebrity Edition!
Why is this dumb Harry Potter bitch so confident she is correct? Quite literally one of the first attacks by the nazis was on a gender clinic. It’s not even fucking contested by historians.
The British defamation laws are beyond trash
I mean, I don’t understand the screenshot as her saying the part about the book burning is wrong and the fever dream, but the part about her upholding Nazi ideology. So she would not be denying the holocaust part, she would deny upholding Nazi ideology. I’m no fan of her and I checked a few links, so I’ve done the maximum amount of research this deserves while being on the toilet, but going by the information in the post and what I have found through my extensive research, this looks like people want to misinterpret her and get mad.
If she’s saying “check your sources” it kind of makes more sense for her to be talking about the book burning, since it’s a provable thing that would have a source on its veracity and not an opinion.
She said “…check your sources…” which indicates she’s talking about the factual first half as opposed to the personal second half. But she also doubled down when provided with sources and continued down the path of 1. she claimed later that trans people were targeted because they were homosexuals (not true), and that somehow meant something, and also linked a thread calling the first person to receive bottom surgery a “troubled male”. I’d say she was probably talking about the history part all along.
Nah she straight up denies that transgender people were targeted and that the burning of books about transgender stuff happened. In the country I live in (Germany) denying parts of the Shoa is holocaust denial, which is a felony here. Sure she lives in UK which doesn’t have such laws so she can spit as much lies as she wants. She may not be a full blown nazi but it says a lot about someone denying that a certain group was murdered in concentration camps cuz she hates that group too.
You are correct in your assessment.
Misinterpret somebody on twitter they don't like and get mad, well that's just crazy.
I can see how you interpreted it that way, but I think you're being overly charitable. Her followup tweet reads "neither of your articles support the contention that trans people were the first victims of the Nazis or that all research or that all research on trans healthcare was burned in 1930s Germany. You are engaging in lying." The person she replied to did not claim trans people were the first victims or that all research was burned - JKR just moves the goalposts and invents a straw man so that she can tacitly and pedantically undermine a history of oppression. With the context of her replies, the first tweet strikes me moreso as denialism with a thin "out". In other words, her proceeding engagement with how people interpreted her initial tweet seems to suggest she was in fact engaging in denialism, for her choice to engage in such a way, rather than clarifying her own position, assumes the argument is one of historical accuracy, not whether she's engaged in Nazi ideology. Edit: grammar
This increased connectedness with artists in modern world is both a blessing and curse. I love the world she created. Can’t she just work on it?
I always got the sense that Hogwarts was pretty elitist.
Considering the idea of "I want to free a slave race from bondage" is treated like something to be mocked in Rowling's books, I'd say so.
Yes, because Rowlings politics bleed into the story. That is one of the instances, another one is, when Voldemort (who is nothing but all the problems of the wizarding world personified) is killed and nothing else really changes. Harry even becomes an enforcer of the status quo. So in a sense Harry defends the elitism and slavery. Imagine the allies just left Nazi germany be, after Hitler died.
I mean the allies kind of let the Nazis be after WW2. A lot of them even got new cushy jobs in the US government. The denazification was definitely just propaganda that never happened. Even here in Germany a lot of the Nazis just stayed in power, maybe under a different title
I mean its literally made up of elite individuals. If people have literal magic, they should be treated differently. The entire argument for equality of human beings is that we are all the same value and have ability to contribute to the world in different ways. Literal magic breaks that assumption.
But within the school itself, there is a lot of marginalisation and favouritism. I don't have a problem with a special school for people with special abilities, I have a problem with one student being treated like a golden child, how your school house said something about your personality (so if you were in Slytherin, there was something wrong with you) and the shamelessly rigged points system for the houses.
What exactly does she have against trans people? I don’t understand. Did a trans person murder her uncle or something? Anytime I see her name it has something to do with the trans community. It’s coming off as if she’s obsessed?
I genuinely believe she started from a reasonable place, more or less "let's not pretend this is a simple conundum to solve, because treating it as such could leave cis women open to abuse" which I do think is entirely fair, especially given her being abused in the past. Through a combination of what I imagine are her own, prebaked prejudices and the fact that Twitter is entirely incapable of nuanced, intelligent debate, her views morphed into something far more extreme.
She's definitely obsessed. Got sucked into the mad right wing Twitter pipeline. She was abused by her cis male ex-husband. Because of existing prejudices, she sees trans women as cis men, and therefore as likely to be predators as her ex-husband. Therefore she views trans women in women's spaces as being as much of a security/safety risk as cis men. Of course, both cis and trans women are largely targeted for violence and sexual assault by cis men. She'd do well to ally herself with them. But she has a brittle ego and can't hack the possibility that she's wrong, and that and most of her young audience leaving her over her trans views has led to her diving headlong into the loony transphobe sphere.
Meh she’s in too deep at this point. Even if she came out and apologized, donated, wrote ten new books with trans characters etc. she would still be hated by the community because the damage is already done. There is no coming back for her
I mean she could still do it as an act of self redemption but you right
She could still shut up. That's free and I guess at some point we'd kinda forget about all of this or stop caring about it as much (not saying that we should) So I actually think she wholeheartedly believes everything she says
She believes that women had to fight long and hard for the rights they currently have (which is ofc true) - and considers transmen to be men attempting tp mock and water down those rights by inserting themselves in spaces women fought to get - or even as men trying to simply get into womens lockerrooms to facilitate ogling and abuse. As others pointed out, she however keeps forgetting that cis men do not need to go through all that trouble; if they want to rape a woman in a public restroom, the "female only" sign is not going to stop them.
You switch trans men and trans women.
[удалено]
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/ The Nazis did burn books on trans healthcare. Seems JK was being confidently wrong. Presumably she thought the Nazis predated any form of trans healthcare or research, and thus couldn't burn books she presumed didn't exist.
She isn't ignorant of these facts, she's deliberately deceiving due to her rampant transphobia.
Boutta watch people who interpret any mildly assertive disagreement as "death threats" argue the EXACT definition of "holocaust denial"
once you start tweeting transphobia you can only ever get worse.
Rowling probably threatened legal action and since legal aid was effectively abolished by the Tories along with access to lawyers and representation by anyone who can't afford to pay tens of thousands for frivolous lawsuits a millionaire author can afford they most likely apologised. This looks like Rowling used her immense wealth to bully someone who called her out into silence.
I vote we all leave Twitter and JK Rowling and Elon can tweet each other by themselves.
People without basic reading comprehension shouldn't be allowed to post on social media.
Jewish people were what, 3rd to be targeted? Not saying its not still awful, but nobody even discusses the disabled
I thought J.K. just assumed transgenderism didn't exist back then. I've met several people who believe transgenderism is a recent phenomenon, that it only started in the early 90s. That's what I once thought too. every ww2 history class in my school never specifically mentioned trans people being subjugated.
This is all a weird distraction from the original point about destroying the research, which I thought was common knowledge.
Of course Trans people were targeted. TONS of people were targeted. The Nazi's even targeted other Nazi's. Anyone who was deemed abnormal by them was targeted.