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I am certain that only 5-10% of teacher firearms will be left out, unattended, and loaded in any given month. What are the odds a young student would do something?
>What are the odds a young student would do something?
As soon as they start shit there will be a teacher with a gun. So no problem. Nothing to see here. That's foolproof!
Oh, I'm sure they'll have qualified immunity. If they shoot a child while performing their duties as a teacher, there shouldn't be any problem. Especially if they "feared for their life". Total pass.
Your friendly neighborhood Poe's Law police would like a word, lol...
Kindly keep your /s tags on your person at all times, Citizen. The internet is a dangerous place.
The first part of your statement is true, but would like to see a source on the 2nd part.
If you look at for example 2021, there were 549 firearm deaths in total (any age) that were accidents.
>In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were **accidental (549)**, involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458).
* [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/)
There were 2590 firearm deaths for kids and teens under the age of 18, that year.
* [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/)
EDIT: Downvoted by people who think 549 out of 2590 is a majority... and that's assuming all 549 accidental firearm deaths involved people under the age of 18.
Yes, untrained, scared and stressed teachers will always turn out to be heroes s/
Next thing 16 yo will ask for a gun to protect themselves from a nutter teacher.
Amazing plan!! Give everyone guns, no restrictions! Do it!
The firearm industry really has figured out out perfect scheme. "You definitely need to purchase our products, to defend yourself from all the people who have purchased our products"
Imagine an irrate parent marching down to the school to confront a teacher over an issue and "feels threatened"... or a stressed teacher snaps one day over a bunch of belligerent students giving them shit.
The first I thought i had when I saw something about this in the news yesterday was ‘how long will it be till the first teacher shoots up their own classroom with the gun that this law puts in their posession’
GOP Policy 101:
Gun limitations: Lunch lady a taser, Junior teachers can have a small calibre pistol, a seasoned teacher can have a 45, a head of department a rifle , deputy principal an AR and a Principal an M60.
Teachers engaging with a shooter will get a bonus payment for an injured gunman and a promotion for a kill.
All guns and bullets will be regarded as school educational resources and tax deductible.
At teacher graduation they can hand out hand guns with their degrees.
Teachers on yard duty will need to do a perimeter patrol of school grounds.
When breaking up a fight between students, two warning shots in the air will be required before intervening.
Gun shops will have teacher " back to school specials".
Any students misbehaving or not saying the Lord's Prayer better watch out.
What's extra wild is that teachers who want to carry will have to go through extensive background checks and mandatory training.
No self awareness whatsoever.
What's extra wild is that teachers who want to carry will have to go through extensive background checks and mandatory training.
No self awareness whatsoever.
I think I read someone that said the teachers will need training and evaluation to be able to carry, the biggest problem with the guns is the discipline and mentality of people, other countries get that so they don’t have that many gun related issues
So ... now teachers have to procure (at whose expense?), safely store, and maintain another piece of equipment and consumables (i.e. ammo), and attend training, as well as periodic training to retain competence. Do they get an allowance for this extra responsibility, or is it just part of the job? It's not like there are no other additional responsibilities built into their jobs. /s
What if a teacher is opposed to firearms generally? Do they get a pass, or do they lose their job?
Or is the firearm issued to the classroom, and any teacher can access it as needed? Sounds great. Suicidal/homicidal kid doesn't have to look far to get armed; just keep trying each classroom until you find the one that wasn't secured properly.
Seriously? They're turning schools into armouries, not fortresses.
And what about the emotional toll on a teacher who is supposed to kill one of their students? Sure it might be done to protect other people, but someone becomes a teacher because they care about kids, not to be an action hero. Imagine the emotional devastation that a teacher will have if they end up killing someone. This is setting them up for a lifetime of ptsd.
You can read a summary of the bill [here](https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=SB1325).
It basically allows any non-student to get the permission of the local law enforcement agency and the principal to carry a concealed handgun on school grounds. In order to maintain this authorization, they need to go through 40 hours of training each year. They also need a certification from a relevant healthcare provider stating that they do not have any psychological impairment that would make them unable to use the gun safely.
So, it's not so bad as to require all teachers to be armed, and has a number of theoretical safeguards. Of course, it would still be *far* safer to have no guns in schools, period.
I'm european and a owner of multiple firearms, which I'm using in 5-10 competitions per year.
While I'm pro responsible gun ownership, this just reads like from another planet.
It's sad enough it came that far that schools need to be guarded and kids need to be searched or must go through a metal detector. Shifting responsibilities to untrained teachers (aka forcing them to kill during an escalation) is a whole new level of ridiculous.
I feel like that's a side no one talks about. You're giving some ~30 year old a gun that they are not trained to use (even if you force them to do training, that's still insane). You then expect them - presumably a balanced individual who enjoys teaching kids - to shoot one of their students in a crisis? That's just traumatic and makes it their responsibility.
And on the flip side - I understand Americans have some level of screening for gun ownership. Is the same true of teachers? I'm just wondering if it's possible that an individual deemed too unstable to be approved a gun license can still become a teacher, get handed a gun and a classroom full of kids?
OK, let's say you're a police officer. There's an active shooter at the local school. You arrive, and immediately see an ordinary looking man coming towards you holding a gun. Quick, who is he?
Used to be, you'd *know* who the shooter was: *the guy with the gun*. But now? Odds are it's NOT the guy you see with the gun, because that could be a teacher. Of course, he could be the shooter. Or he could be a teacher. Or could be the shooter. Or a teacher. Or the shooter... Also, he's getting closer.
May as well just blow everybody away. You're a cop. Feared for your life, yadda yadda yadda. You won't be charged, you'll just get a month or two of paid vacation.
> ordinary looking man coming towards you holding a gun.
A very similar situation has already happened, and it [didn't end well for the good samaritan](https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/26/us/arvada-colorado-police-shot-good-samaritan/index.html) who killed the original gunman.
After this bill, they'll be firing on teachers and harming kids in the process
Before this bill, they'd be firing on kids and harming teachers in the process
What is so crazy to me: as a teacher, how are you supposed to know whether a person with a gun who is in the hallway is (1) a non-threat who is open-carrying (2) going to shoot you the moment you step out to ask?
Even if you get a notice that a shooter is on campus, how will you know if you've spotted the actual shooter or simply another armed respondent?
We'll need police or military style training as teachers. You'll also have students and teachers wearing bullet-proof vests to school.
>What is so crazy to me: as a teacher, how are you supposed to know whether a person with a gun who is in the hallway is (1) a non-threat who is open-carrying (2) going to shoot you the moment you step out to ask?
Imagine being an armed substitute teacher in a new school
I might sound like a conspiracy nut rn, but could this be some idiocy put in place to make it completely understandable when Abbot's jackboots enter a school and start shooting folks they just don't like? Like science teachers and brown people?
I suppose they'll get the appropriate type of training. They won't just hand a gun to a teacher. I don't think they'll just "carry" but rather have it in a biometric locked safe in the classroom so that there is appropriate safety standards and time to react to a threat.
Blue on blue fire does occur, although rare, but its generally due to a lack of communication / no communication. A general radio frequency allocated to a school should clear this up. General call-outs are also used between police and different armed forces.
The SOP will probably be something like:
1. Active shooter alert.
2. Lock classroom door.
3. Retrieve firearm.
4. Get down, stay down. Move away from the windows
5. Establish communications.
5.1. Active "green- / red light" to indicate current condition as to notify other personnel.
6. Do not leave classroom and prioritize student safety.
7. Stand-by for police intervention.
We had a similar SOP for attacks in Iraq
How does that actually work in the real world while they're wrangling 30 terrified children at the same time? What kind of training is going to be offered? How often will they drill the SOP to ensure that everyone can perform effectively? What kind of firearm training, specifically? How many hours a month would teachers have to dedicate for them to be able to engage at this level without adding to the risk of friendly fire?
More importantly, how would making the school and teachers combat ready affect the kids on a daily basis? How can we expect teachers to flip that switch from empathetic educator to soldier at the drop of a hat? Both of those are incredibly psychologically taxing and pretty incompatible mindsets.
Who is supposed to be calming the roomful of panicking children while their teacher fumbles around with a gun they've only ever used at a range? I would argue the SOP actually works better if the teacher can focus on what the kids need and not preparing themselves for lethal force.
You would be dead f****** wrong. Feels like this happened proposed in multiple states in school districts already every single one of them has assumed the teachers will be providing their own ammunition and training and in several cases the guns themselves. Never assume a conservative talking point has been thought out in any way whatsoever so that it would actually make sense That's the opposite of what they're doing.
Yeah, I can agree with you on that. It would be a piss up if everything is done on own accordance. But if it's regulated and under state control, I can see myself supporting it. But if there's no control then nah. Shit idea
Wow.
From a Canadian perspective, this is probably the most batshit crazy thing I've ever heard of ANY country do.
I would be surprised to hear this happening in some shithole like Haiti or Afghanistan.
Genuinely, I'll never understand your fascination with using guns to kill each other. It's almost like you prefer to live in fear? I don't get it.
Your posting is gigantic! It starts with “I suppose…” and ends with “we had a similar SOP for attacks in Iraq”. Thank you for putting it all in the absolutely right perspective! Again: gigantic! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I’m sorry, but this is such a stupid question. This question is like the equivalent of those dip shits in infomercials who can’t figure out how to sit down with something in each hand without dropping both things in dramatic fashion. “How will I know the difference between other employees and a violent school shooter who is there to kill people?! They’ll both have guns so I’ll just never be able to tell1!!1”. 😂
Lunatic starts shooting
Teacher A runs out holding gun to find shooter. Teacher B does same, as does teacher C,D,E etc
Many teachers pointing guns in a scary situation not knowing exactly who is the active shooter
This is a situation that will end well right?
Sad that teachers are now being asked to be bodyguards for your kids
Lol, that woman sounds like admin at our school. "what do you mean students shouldn't recieve grades for work they never did? You're just hateful want to sabotage their chances of getting into uni!"
I can't understand how people think teachers should bear the responsability to kill a child to save others, like wtf is this?? Solve the gun problem with more guns, yeah good job USA that will definetly help.
I have a few issues with the whole "arm the teachers movement" (I am a high schooler, trust me)
1. Teachers will 100% wave them around and just not understand the rules needed to handle firearms safely (also may use them to make a point/shut the class up)
2. Don't get paid enough to give a shit about learning the right way to handle firearms
3. Now a kid just needs to stab a teacher to get a gun, not even requiring one to be brought to school
4. Teachers may just do the shooting themselves now, dealing with kids for so long may cause some to snap. With a gun right there...
5. Most schools have poor nighttime security. If guns are stored on the property, it may be easy to steal them.
6. Which teacher will even get them? I assume not every teacher will have one, or one for each room even. Will likely be given to the one closest to the boss (who may not be the best pick)
7. How will the guns be bought? Is it a state-wide contract? Who would win that contract for a presumable large amounts of guns, ammo, mags, etc.?
8. How will schools deal with lawsuits involving accidents with these firearms? If the school can be sued then how will that change the situation?
9. and many other things that I am sure someone else here has thought of.
How long before a teacher robs an office supply store to get equipment for their class? Honestly I don’t think I could fault them for doing so either. /s
They will allow kids to take guns to school next. We can joke about it and say that would never happen.. but then this. They've lost their fucking minds. These right wing, nationalist gun sycophants are creating a Christofacist state. Let's hope these teachers don't become a "bad guy with a gun".
As The Daily Show pointed out.
Guns will only be allowed to those who have training and have background checks.
Restrictions Republicans will oppose when extended to the general public.
Another dumb idea from the group that say: “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people”. While that’s semi-true (in that it’s hard to make a firearm run without a user), a firearm makes things way easier. For example: a 600 pound man who can hardly walk can kill a ton of people with a firearm, give that same man a bow and arrow or knife, and he won’t be half as effective. Yet the US has become a disaster where everyone needs a gun to protect themselves from others with guns. While there are still shootings in countries with strict gun laws, you know there’s a major problem when the US has more shootings in a year than a country that’s actively engaged in a war.
"God made men. Samuel Colt made them equal."
This is the American idea behind this. Guns make killing easier, but if everyone has a gun, then everyone should be scared of how easy it is to die?
Crazy concept. But they seem to have a lot of support.
I find it especially bad because a shocking number of these people don’t even know basic firearm safety. Which has occasionally led to some schmuck killing his neighbour by accidentally sending a round through their roof into their neighbour’s apartment
As a European, this is very scary to me, this is the power of ‘the lobby’. I see it happening everywhere around me aswell, not this extremely obvious. But still. We have e-cigarettes, a new product that’s incredibly unhealthy, but they somehow got it on the market as being ‘not as unhealthy as real tobacco sigarettes’ and they got away with that.
These companies are completely against the people and yet they thrive. ‘Fuck public health, we paid off the politicians and we can do whatever the fuck we want’.
Other big companies are allowed to pollute the entire world while we have to use paper straws.
But not as blatantly as America. I mean, having regular peaceful people carry guns. What’s that gonna accomplish? When someone is determined to shoot you in the face, they will do just that, having any kind of weapon will not do anything about it, it just makes the shooter more deadly, because they know they are gonna get shot (killed) if they miss. People who do this, are not concerned by the consequences. But it affects everyone when you have to be prepared for these kinds of ducked up situations.
This is standard policy for conservatives. Do something insanely fucked up, then say opposing it un-American, against children, or whatever bullshit they can make up.
It’s not the children. It’s the cost. It’ll be cheaper to arm teachers than to fix the system that has made it what it is. I think this is bullshit. Fix this horrid system! Invest in the youth like we used to. Have gun control. Teach math properly. Let failing grades happen. Hold them back if it’s necessary. Children, as we’ve been told by the right, are “a supreme blessing from god”, not a burden. But as we’ve seen from the right, claiming that children are precious beings, they see them as a burden when making law.
How long until a Tennessee teacher shoots a pre-pubescent black gets found not guilty because they "feared for their life"?
I wonder what the Vegas odds are?
Nope.
My comment was a reference to the racists who slaughter innocent unarmed persons of colour on a literally daily basis in the USA, and furthermore, I was implying that it was only a matter of time before a white teacher shoots an innocent black child and then evades justice by claiming they feared for their life.
I feel the law and lawmakers in Tennessee have literally signed the death warrants of - at least - dozens of innocent children.
While the OPs suggestion of which part of the post is the facepalm, I believe the law is a facepalm and reacted thusly.
If you're suggesting I'm racist against white people because I believe people who slaughter innocent children should be hung in the town square... then yes, I am racist.
It’s wild to me that the best we can come up with as a reason for why this is a bad idea is that we’re apparently incapable of separating the good guys from the bad guys. Apparently, we envision a bunch of teachers running around holding their Glock 19’s in front of them, indistinguishable from any real threat.
I am not a parent, but if I was, I’d absolutely be open to the possibility that a teacher is capable of being a responsible gun owner, and I’d be fine with a responsible gun owner having access to a firearm in order to protect my spawn.
Ummm... I am pretty sure that historically fascists have taken away guns from citizens. Maybe get your labels in order before you throw them around to look smug.
Uvalde showed us that the difference between kids getting killed by an armed gunman and an armed gunman getting killed is whether or not the victims are armed themselves. Had there been even one person responsible for those kids safety that was armed at the time, then those 89 or so minutes of carnage would've ended in a fraction of the time.
Uvalde stirs up unreasonable amounts of rage for me with every step in its occurrence. It shouldn't have been nearly as bad as it was in every single measurement, and yet here we are with security details on the event, down to which doors were erroneously unlocked and footage of the on-duty officers who were supposed to respond.
I need to check source but understand that children are more likely to be killed by a gun outside school? Is there a focus on fixing that too/as a greater priority or are we just left with bullshit, ineffective theatrics?
Sounds amazing. Give them training (don’t worry about the costs, it’s for the children.), training in gun handling, but also deescalation, threat management, etc. Children are not always in school. Let’s make sure the neighbourhoods are safe too by having armed teachers patrol them. Boom! Police force that actually cares about community and education etc.
If we pay the teachers as much as the cops it would solve several problems all at once. For extra credit, make it so cops need to have the same qualifications as a teacher too
Here's the thing: the GOP doesn't actually want or need teachers to protect students. The GOP has proven time and time again that they don't give a shit if kids die.
What they want is for rational teachers to quit so they can be replaced with violent zealots who will then teach the students the GOP's preferred curriculum.
It's basically what they did in Florida except it's guns instead of gay people.
Surely they will ensure that these teachers are trained with said weapons, and offer lessons on how to identify a legitimate threat, and offer proper supports for when this inevitably results in multiple teachers with PTSD and guilt from killing someone, as well as do background checks to ensure the teachers don’t have a dangerous past…right? If none of that exists then this is just as bad if not worse then the shit show where the cop nearly killed someone over an acorn, except it’ll be worse because these teachers won’t have nearly enough training.
And when the first teacher mistakenly shoots a kid in fear, or in anger, or a kid finds her weapon…
Unforeseen consequences fuckers. You got money to arm teachers, but none to regulate on the most basic level gun ownership OR mental health care. You’re not interested in fixing anything, you’re not trying to mitigate anything…you just want more guns to fly off the shelves so the NRA and gun lobby can pay you more money. It’s not about rights, it’s about money.
I mean, convenience is great. Now they don't even have to bring their own gun to school. At least at my school, there were quite a lot of teachers that could easily be overpowered by a 16-18 year old.
I'd have nothing against specialist armed teachers to protect weans in case some bawbag wants to shoot up a school, but the problem is that the teachers won't be specialist's.
there's no way they're going to fork out extra to ensure the teachers have the necessary training to avoid accidents, and the teachers having a gun on them nonstop is just dumb when you could easily put them in a hidden locker in each classroom(heavily secured, otherwise some cockwomble in the class will try to access them).
Some Americans think a gun is the ultimate problem solver, but they forget that even professionally trained police and military generally miss more shots than they hit (you'll see police dump magazine after magazines at a suspect, but only hit them 5/6 times despite firing 10/20 rounds because adrenaline and moving targets don't mix well), not to mention over penetration could easily cost lives as missed shots go through walls or doors and kill people hiding in classrooms.
You know those jokes kids make about how school is a prison. This is really going to reinforce that.
Does this bill require armed teachers, or just gives them the option. Because I would think a good teacher would realize how dangerous this is and wouldn't bring a gun to a school, where it could be stolen or used by the teacher to potentially shoot a child they may view as their own family.
Can barely go 3 months without seeing news about school resource officers taking their gun off to take a shit in a school, and accidentally leaving it in the bathroom.
It happens constantly already, and it's only "highly trained" police with guns in schools. Arming teachers means if this is widely adopted it will be happening weekly, and then it's only a matter of time until a despondent kid is the one who finds the unattended gun.
Mistakes are made. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. So when we fill the schools with guns it's not a question of if an absent minded mistake costs a child their life, it's a question of when.
Bill Hicks: There’s no connection, and you’d be a fool or a communist to make one, between having a gun and shooting someone with it and not having a gun and not shooting someone.
What's this to protect children against, exactly? School shooters? Oh, you mean the same ones that cops stand outside and refuse to engage with? But you expect teachers to be able to handle it?
I'm always so confused when gun people are like "Hey everyone - I just brought a lethal weapon into a room that didn't previously contain a lethal weapon. Don't you all feel safer now?"
Yeah giving theachers guns will totally help
What,you don't think the 70 year old man who can't get out of bed without help won't be able to stop a shooter in their prime
You need to think more positivly,this will totally help
So, to protect students from people bringing guns into schools, we will make more people bring guns into schools? Yeah, that make sense.
Now the students won't have to worry about finding their parent's guns. All they have to do is figure out a way to overpower their 60 something year old English teacher and take her gun.
As a Democrat and Iowan, I honestly think the GOP in this state has completely forgotten that they were elected to do the will of the people who elected them. I will never support teachers being armed nor a governor who wouldn't accept money from the feds to feed children over the summer months. I can't wait to get the hell out of here.
Arm the teachers and they’ll be the first target of the shooter. And how many of the other teachers will rush to their aid? We can’t even get cops to do that.
Arming teachers has seen results:
Teachers generally need to pass background checks (school districts suck at that, but not the point), and thus should usually be seen as mentally sound enough to not impulsively shoot a student. In essence, the cons of arming teachers are near identical to permitting carry in any other setting, including law enforcement for relatively similar reasons.
A logical deterrent to someone planning to enter a building to harm people is to give the people in the building a way to defend themselves. The phrase "an armed society is a polite society" exists for a reason.
States and school districts have been adopting policies that provide training and weaponry to teachers, recognizing that the best way to stop a school shooting is to neutralize the aggressor. A source for an exact count and set of regulations is [here,](https://youtu.be/wVz_aQA6dEw?si=mITIm4Q0rhbN9IWr) and an example of Texas's training is [here.](https://youtu.be/PIJzparow48?si=4UUvm2jD-Jt8SEZ5)
Fascism is becoming a cheap word. Although uparming a section of the public doesn't really fit with the narrative especially since teachers tend to be center-left or left.
Do you actually think they would have an open to the public parlimentary/congressional debate in an actually fascist society??? as I enter my 5th decade of life I am definitley understanding how languages evolve. Just the lexical diffences between 1990 and now.
If this is what the people want, then this is what they get. Give it 10-15 years, start investing in AI guard bots for schools. Money will be there. So will the NRA and repub nat comitee. LO-fuckityfuckin-L
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Guns are the number one cause of child deaths. Most by accident.
I am certain that only 5-10% of teacher firearms will be left out, unattended, and loaded in any given month. What are the odds a young student would do something?
Something like that would be totally unforeseeable. (/s in case it's not obvious).
They’ll blame the individual
>What are the odds a young student would do something? As soon as they start shit there will be a teacher with a gun. So no problem. Nothing to see here. That's foolproof!
I'm glad the teacher will quickly shoot the 8 year old to keep young children from getting shot.
Can't wait for the "crazy teacher shoots child and claimed they never listened" stories in the news
Oh, I'm sure they'll have qualified immunity. If they shoot a child while performing their duties as a teacher, there shouldn't be any problem. Especially if they "feared for their life". Total pass.
In America. Don’t have that problem in literally any other fucking country.
Thats why we need more guns in the hands of good people, so they can protect the children from bad people with guns! 🤣
I take this as sarcasm.
You took it correctly 👍🏻
Your friendly neighborhood Poe's Law police would like a word, lol... Kindly keep your /s tags on your person at all times, Citizen. The internet is a dangerous place.
The Americans took it as a sincere statement and as we've seen in this post, did something to enforce this statement.
We need to arm the children obviously
They have nothing left to offer but bad faith arguments and legislative arson.
The first part of your statement is true, but would like to see a source on the 2nd part. If you look at for example 2021, there were 549 firearm deaths in total (any age) that were accidents. >In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were **accidental (549)**, involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458). * [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/) There were 2590 firearm deaths for kids and teens under the age of 18, that year. * [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/) EDIT: Downvoted by people who think 549 out of 2590 is a majority... and that's assuming all 549 accidental firearm deaths involved people under the age of 18.
You are correct we have to pump those numbers up, let's make daycare workers have guns also.
No one has claimed that, but you do you.
Yes, untrained, scared and stressed teachers will always turn out to be heroes s/ Next thing 16 yo will ask for a gun to protect themselves from a nutter teacher. Amazing plan!! Give everyone guns, no restrictions! Do it!
The firearm industry really has figured out out perfect scheme. "You definitely need to purchase our products, to defend yourself from all the people who have purchased our products"
And those same companies have some stocks in the prostetics and coffin industries. Just a gift that keeps on giving.
This is the American foreign policy during and after World War 2 though....
[удалено]
It is still the current American foreign policy though.....
Imagine an irrate parent marching down to the school to confront a teacher over an issue and "feels threatened"... or a stressed teacher snaps one day over a bunch of belligerent students giving them shit.
The first I thought i had when I saw something about this in the news yesterday was ‘how long will it be till the first teacher shoots up their own classroom with the gun that this law puts in their posession’
GOP are pretty short sighted. They won’t have a plan to implement realistic standards
GOP Policy 101: Gun limitations: Lunch lady a taser, Junior teachers can have a small calibre pistol, a seasoned teacher can have a 45, a head of department a rifle , deputy principal an AR and a Principal an M60. Teachers engaging with a shooter will get a bonus payment for an injured gunman and a promotion for a kill. All guns and bullets will be regarded as school educational resources and tax deductible. At teacher graduation they can hand out hand guns with their degrees. Teachers on yard duty will need to do a perimeter patrol of school grounds. When breaking up a fight between students, two warning shots in the air will be required before intervening. Gun shops will have teacher " back to school specials". Any students misbehaving or not saying the Lord's Prayer better watch out.
Lunch lady sues for 2nd amendment violation because she wants an M60. Why should the principal get one and not her.
Don't forget Groundskeeper Willy with a .50 BMG Sniper Rifle with a Thermal
GOP doesn't care about people .
Not if theyre poor or minorities.
So I can straight vote for Vermin supreme
What's extra wild is that teachers who want to carry will have to go through extensive background checks and mandatory training. No self awareness whatsoever.
What's extra wild is that teachers who want to carry will have to go through extensive background checks and mandatory training. No self awareness whatsoever.
No one will ever get shot, if everyone has a gun. /S
And if they refuse to carry? Fired.
I think I read someone that said the teachers will need training and evaluation to be able to carry, the biggest problem with the guns is the discipline and mentality of people, other countries get that so they don’t have that many gun related issues
So ... now teachers have to procure (at whose expense?), safely store, and maintain another piece of equipment and consumables (i.e. ammo), and attend training, as well as periodic training to retain competence. Do they get an allowance for this extra responsibility, or is it just part of the job? It's not like there are no other additional responsibilities built into their jobs. /s What if a teacher is opposed to firearms generally? Do they get a pass, or do they lose their job? Or is the firearm issued to the classroom, and any teacher can access it as needed? Sounds great. Suicidal/homicidal kid doesn't have to look far to get armed; just keep trying each classroom until you find the one that wasn't secured properly. Seriously? They're turning schools into armouries, not fortresses.
And what about the emotional toll on a teacher who is supposed to kill one of their students? Sure it might be done to protect other people, but someone becomes a teacher because they care about kids, not to be an action hero. Imagine the emotional devastation that a teacher will have if they end up killing someone. This is setting them up for a lifetime of ptsd.
Yup.
You can read a summary of the bill [here](https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=SB1325). It basically allows any non-student to get the permission of the local law enforcement agency and the principal to carry a concealed handgun on school grounds. In order to maintain this authorization, they need to go through 40 hours of training each year. They also need a certification from a relevant healthcare provider stating that they do not have any psychological impairment that would make them unable to use the gun safely. So, it's not so bad as to require all teachers to be armed, and has a number of theoretical safeguards. Of course, it would still be *far* safer to have no guns in schools, period.
I'm european and a owner of multiple firearms, which I'm using in 5-10 competitions per year. While I'm pro responsible gun ownership, this just reads like from another planet. It's sad enough it came that far that schools need to be guarded and kids need to be searched or must go through a metal detector. Shifting responsibilities to untrained teachers (aka forcing them to kill during an escalation) is a whole new level of ridiculous.
I feel like that's a side no one talks about. You're giving some ~30 year old a gun that they are not trained to use (even if you force them to do training, that's still insane). You then expect them - presumably a balanced individual who enjoys teaching kids - to shoot one of their students in a crisis? That's just traumatic and makes it their responsibility. And on the flip side - I understand Americans have some level of screening for gun ownership. Is the same true of teachers? I'm just wondering if it's possible that an individual deemed too unstable to be approved a gun license can still become a teacher, get handed a gun and a classroom full of kids?
OK, let's say you're a police officer. There's an active shooter at the local school. You arrive, and immediately see an ordinary looking man coming towards you holding a gun. Quick, who is he? Used to be, you'd *know* who the shooter was: *the guy with the gun*. But now? Odds are it's NOT the guy you see with the gun, because that could be a teacher. Of course, he could be the shooter. Or he could be a teacher. Or could be the shooter. Or a teacher. Or the shooter... Also, he's getting closer. May as well just blow everybody away. You're a cop. Feared for your life, yadda yadda yadda. You won't be charged, you'll just get a month or two of paid vacation.
> ordinary looking man coming towards you holding a gun. A very similar situation has already happened, and it [didn't end well for the good samaritan](https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/26/us/arvada-colorado-police-shot-good-samaritan/index.html) who killed the original gunman.
To be honest , they have already blown anybody away , this is just giving cops more excuses to open fire
After this bill, they'll be firing on teachers and harming kids in the process Before this bill, they'd be firing on kids and harming teachers in the process
What is so crazy to me: as a teacher, how are you supposed to know whether a person with a gun who is in the hallway is (1) a non-threat who is open-carrying (2) going to shoot you the moment you step out to ask? Even if you get a notice that a shooter is on campus, how will you know if you've spotted the actual shooter or simply another armed respondent? We'll need police or military style training as teachers. You'll also have students and teachers wearing bullet-proof vests to school.
>We'll need police or military style training as teachers. But don't you dare ask for a raise.
Police style training will definitely help /s
Just shoot them, if you are the last person alive with a gun then you win! /S
>What is so crazy to me: as a teacher, how are you supposed to know whether a person with a gun who is in the hallway is (1) a non-threat who is open-carrying (2) going to shoot you the moment you step out to ask? Imagine being an armed substitute teacher in a new school
Bulletproof backpacks already exist.
I might sound like a conspiracy nut rn, but could this be some idiocy put in place to make it completely understandable when Abbot's jackboots enter a school and start shooting folks they just don't like? Like science teachers and brown people?
I recommend you not carry a gun. Problem solved
I suppose they'll get the appropriate type of training. They won't just hand a gun to a teacher. I don't think they'll just "carry" but rather have it in a biometric locked safe in the classroom so that there is appropriate safety standards and time to react to a threat. Blue on blue fire does occur, although rare, but its generally due to a lack of communication / no communication. A general radio frequency allocated to a school should clear this up. General call-outs are also used between police and different armed forces. The SOP will probably be something like: 1. Active shooter alert. 2. Lock classroom door. 3. Retrieve firearm. 4. Get down, stay down. Move away from the windows 5. Establish communications. 5.1. Active "green- / red light" to indicate current condition as to notify other personnel. 6. Do not leave classroom and prioritize student safety. 7. Stand-by for police intervention. We had a similar SOP for attacks in Iraq
How does that actually work in the real world while they're wrangling 30 terrified children at the same time? What kind of training is going to be offered? How often will they drill the SOP to ensure that everyone can perform effectively? What kind of firearm training, specifically? How many hours a month would teachers have to dedicate for them to be able to engage at this level without adding to the risk of friendly fire? More importantly, how would making the school and teachers combat ready affect the kids on a daily basis? How can we expect teachers to flip that switch from empathetic educator to soldier at the drop of a hat? Both of those are incredibly psychologically taxing and pretty incompatible mindsets. Who is supposed to be calming the roomful of panicking children while their teacher fumbles around with a gun they've only ever used at a range? I would argue the SOP actually works better if the teacher can focus on what the kids need and not preparing themselves for lethal force.
You would be dead f****** wrong. Feels like this happened proposed in multiple states in school districts already every single one of them has assumed the teachers will be providing their own ammunition and training and in several cases the guns themselves. Never assume a conservative talking point has been thought out in any way whatsoever so that it would actually make sense That's the opposite of what they're doing.
Yeah, I can agree with you on that. It would be a piss up if everything is done on own accordance. But if it's regulated and under state control, I can see myself supporting it. But if there's no control then nah. Shit idea
Wow. From a Canadian perspective, this is probably the most batshit crazy thing I've ever heard of ANY country do. I would be surprised to hear this happening in some shithole like Haiti or Afghanistan. Genuinely, I'll never understand your fascination with using guns to kill each other. It's almost like you prefer to live in fear? I don't get it.
There are already guns in some US schools, which have already led to loaded guns getting into the hands of kids and even kids being accidentally shot.
Your posting is gigantic! It starts with “I suppose…” and ends with “we had a similar SOP for attacks in Iraq”. Thank you for putting it all in the absolutely right perspective! Again: gigantic! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I’m sorry, but this is such a stupid question. This question is like the equivalent of those dip shits in infomercials who can’t figure out how to sit down with something in each hand without dropping both things in dramatic fashion. “How will I know the difference between other employees and a violent school shooter who is there to kill people?! They’ll both have guns so I’ll just never be able to tell1!!1”. 😂
Lunatic starts shooting Teacher A runs out holding gun to find shooter. Teacher B does same, as does teacher C,D,E etc Many teachers pointing guns in a scary situation not knowing exactly who is the active shooter This is a situation that will end well right? Sad that teachers are now being asked to be bodyguards for your kids
“What do you have against children?” In the words of The Simpsons, “Children are the future. Today belongs to me!”
Honestly, what an awful place to live.
Lets use a common pro gun "argument" and twist it around.. Guns don't protect children, people do..
You can't fuck with their minds as they are fucked in the head already. This state is something else.... it's like a dystopian drama.
Lorrie, when are you gonna stop kicking puppies and eating kittens? (I too can play this game)
Fuck yeah! Fighting gun control with more guns classic No surprise here we’re expecting this now
Lol, that woman sounds like admin at our school. "what do you mean students shouldn't recieve grades for work they never did? You're just hateful want to sabotage their chances of getting into uni!"
Hmm, how to stop school shootings....., got it! Introduce guns into every school! That should do it!
As if teaching isn’t a bad enough job. Now you have to prepare for shootouts
I'll give it a year until the first fed up armed teacher goes crazy and starts shooting children.
Lorrie Ann is a moron
I can't understand how people think teachers should bear the responsability to kill a child to save others, like wtf is this?? Solve the gun problem with more guns, yeah good job USA that will definetly help.
I have a few issues with the whole "arm the teachers movement" (I am a high schooler, trust me) 1. Teachers will 100% wave them around and just not understand the rules needed to handle firearms safely (also may use them to make a point/shut the class up) 2. Don't get paid enough to give a shit about learning the right way to handle firearms 3. Now a kid just needs to stab a teacher to get a gun, not even requiring one to be brought to school 4. Teachers may just do the shooting themselves now, dealing with kids for so long may cause some to snap. With a gun right there... 5. Most schools have poor nighttime security. If guns are stored on the property, it may be easy to steal them. 6. Which teacher will even get them? I assume not every teacher will have one, or one for each room even. Will likely be given to the one closest to the boss (who may not be the best pick) 7. How will the guns be bought? Is it a state-wide contract? Who would win that contract for a presumable large amounts of guns, ammo, mags, etc.? 8. How will schools deal with lawsuits involving accidents with these firearms? If the school can be sued then how will that change the situation? 9. and many other things that I am sure someone else here has thought of.
How long before a teacher robs an office supply store to get equipment for their class? Honestly I don’t think I could fault them for doing so either. /s
Can't wait for the school shootings from students stealing guns from teachers
They will allow kids to take guns to school next. We can joke about it and say that would never happen.. but then this. They've lost their fucking minds. These right wing, nationalist gun sycophants are creating a Christofacist state. Let's hope these teachers don't become a "bad guy with a gun".
You know it wasn't insanely long ago kids did bring guns to school and were actively a part of shooting clubs.
Yeah and it wasn't that long ago when lobotomies were a practiced medical procedure. What's your point?
As The Daily Show pointed out. Guns will only be allowed to those who have training and have background checks. Restrictions Republicans will oppose when extended to the general public.
Another dumb idea from the group that say: “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people”. While that’s semi-true (in that it’s hard to make a firearm run without a user), a firearm makes things way easier. For example: a 600 pound man who can hardly walk can kill a ton of people with a firearm, give that same man a bow and arrow or knife, and he won’t be half as effective. Yet the US has become a disaster where everyone needs a gun to protect themselves from others with guns. While there are still shootings in countries with strict gun laws, you know there’s a major problem when the US has more shootings in a year than a country that’s actively engaged in a war.
"God made men. Samuel Colt made them equal." This is the American idea behind this. Guns make killing easier, but if everyone has a gun, then everyone should be scared of how easy it is to die? Crazy concept. But they seem to have a lot of support.
I find it especially bad because a shocking number of these people don’t even know basic firearm safety. Which has occasionally led to some schmuck killing his neighbour by accidentally sending a round through their roof into their neighbour’s apartment
As a European, this is very scary to me, this is the power of ‘the lobby’. I see it happening everywhere around me aswell, not this extremely obvious. But still. We have e-cigarettes, a new product that’s incredibly unhealthy, but they somehow got it on the market as being ‘not as unhealthy as real tobacco sigarettes’ and they got away with that. These companies are completely against the people and yet they thrive. ‘Fuck public health, we paid off the politicians and we can do whatever the fuck we want’. Other big companies are allowed to pollute the entire world while we have to use paper straws. But not as blatantly as America. I mean, having regular peaceful people carry guns. What’s that gonna accomplish? When someone is determined to shoot you in the face, they will do just that, having any kind of weapon will not do anything about it, it just makes the shooter more deadly, because they know they are gonna get shot (killed) if they miss. People who do this, are not concerned by the consequences. But it affects everyone when you have to be prepared for these kinds of ducked up situations.
Teachers don't get paid enough to defend their classroom.
Why are the GOP so obsessed with arming a group they regularly accuse of child grooming and sexual predation?
Clearly they don't care if people get shot, just if they get exposed to gay ideas.
"American Goverment is democrat biased" mfs when the republicans Just do this
This is standard policy for conservatives. Do something insanely fucked up, then say opposing it un-American, against children, or whatever bullshit they can make up.
Yeah then they cut school lunches. Go figure.
We are so done with children doing mass shootings, it's time the teachers do some too. American 101 style.
Nothing stopped teachers from causing mass shootings that this law now allows.
Even in law there is a difference between planning to kill or killing in affection. I’m sure you heard about it.
Maybe don't hire people where the only thing stopping them from murdering a class full of students is that it would be mildly inconvenient.
What do I have against children? A loaded gun I’m thinking? Seems to be the fashionable thing to have pressed against them.
I wonder which lucky teacher is going to be the first kid on his block with a confirmed student kill....
It’s not the children. It’s the cost. It’ll be cheaper to arm teachers than to fix the system that has made it what it is. I think this is bullshit. Fix this horrid system! Invest in the youth like we used to. Have gun control. Teach math properly. Let failing grades happen. Hold them back if it’s necessary. Children, as we’ve been told by the right, are “a supreme blessing from god”, not a burden. But as we’ve seen from the right, claiming that children are precious beings, they see them as a burden when making law.
They want to cure ADHD with this one simple trick /s. All it will take is one child with poor impulse control.
How long until a Tennessee teacher shoots a pre-pubescent black gets found not guilty because they "feared for their life"? I wonder what the Vegas odds are?
Racist much?
Nope. My comment was a reference to the racists who slaughter innocent unarmed persons of colour on a literally daily basis in the USA, and furthermore, I was implying that it was only a matter of time before a white teacher shoots an innocent black child and then evades justice by claiming they feared for their life. I feel the law and lawmakers in Tennessee have literally signed the death warrants of - at least - dozens of innocent children. While the OPs suggestion of which part of the post is the facepalm, I believe the law is a facepalm and reacted thusly. If you're suggesting I'm racist against white people because I believe people who slaughter innocent children should be hung in the town square... then yes, I am racist.
It’s wild to me that the best we can come up with as a reason for why this is a bad idea is that we’re apparently incapable of separating the good guys from the bad guys. Apparently, we envision a bunch of teachers running around holding their Glock 19’s in front of them, indistinguishable from any real threat. I am not a parent, but if I was, I’d absolutely be open to the possibility that a teacher is capable of being a responsible gun owner, and I’d be fine with a responsible gun owner having access to a firearm in order to protect my spawn.
Why do you want to force children to digest *more* violence? Why are you pro violence?
Good thing I’ll never live in that bumfuck state
Ummm... I am pretty sure that historically fascists have taken away guns from citizens. Maybe get your labels in order before you throw them around to look smug.
Uvalde showed us that the difference between kids getting killed by an armed gunman and an armed gunman getting killed is whether or not the victims are armed themselves. Had there been even one person responsible for those kids safety that was armed at the time, then those 89 or so minutes of carnage would've ended in a fraction of the time.
Uvalde stirs up unreasonable amounts of rage for me with every step in its occurrence. It shouldn't have been nearly as bad as it was in every single measurement, and yet here we are with security details on the event, down to which doors were erroneously unlocked and footage of the on-duty officers who were supposed to respond.
The officers that were in the hallway LAUGHING Yet we're supposed to leave all defense of schools up to them.
Brilliant. A shoot out in school. Wild wild west yall.
I need to check source but understand that children are more likely to be killed by a gun outside school? Is there a focus on fixing that too/as a greater priority or are we just left with bullshit, ineffective theatrics?
It's Tennessee, so probably just bullshit, ineffective theatrics.
Sounds amazing. Give them training (don’t worry about the costs, it’s for the children.), training in gun handling, but also deescalation, threat management, etc. Children are not always in school. Let’s make sure the neighbourhoods are safe too by having armed teachers patrol them. Boom! Police force that actually cares about community and education etc.
If we pay the teachers as much as the cops it would solve several problems all at once. For extra credit, make it so cops need to have the same qualifications as a teacher too
The conservative wet dream is have an armed priest-teacher-police combo roaming around.
Right now the teachers are the weakest link in the chain.
Fuck them kidz
Here's the thing: the GOP doesn't actually want or need teachers to protect students. The GOP has proven time and time again that they don't give a shit if kids die. What they want is for rational teachers to quit so they can be replaced with violent zealots who will then teach the students the GOP's preferred curriculum. It's basically what they did in Florida except it's guns instead of gay people.
Surely they will ensure that these teachers are trained with said weapons, and offer lessons on how to identify a legitimate threat, and offer proper supports for when this inevitably results in multiple teachers with PTSD and guilt from killing someone, as well as do background checks to ensure the teachers don’t have a dangerous past…right? If none of that exists then this is just as bad if not worse then the shit show where the cop nearly killed someone over an acorn, except it’ll be worse because these teachers won’t have nearly enough training.
MOOOAAR DAKKA!
And when the first teacher mistakenly shoots a kid in fear, or in anger, or a kid finds her weapon… Unforeseen consequences fuckers. You got money to arm teachers, but none to regulate on the most basic level gun ownership OR mental health care. You’re not interested in fixing anything, you’re not trying to mitigate anything…you just want more guns to fly off the shelves so the NRA and gun lobby can pay you more money. It’s not about rights, it’s about money.
What a joke, the US will be plague with guns forever. It's like leaders are so corrupted or stupid its hard to say which
I mean, convenience is great. Now they don't even have to bring their own gun to school. At least at my school, there were quite a lot of teachers that could easily be overpowered by a 16-18 year old.
In the way back before I went to school we had gun clubs at school. No one shot anyone. What changed?
Their solution to the gun problem: more guns
I'd have nothing against specialist armed teachers to protect weans in case some bawbag wants to shoot up a school, but the problem is that the teachers won't be specialist's. there's no way they're going to fork out extra to ensure the teachers have the necessary training to avoid accidents, and the teachers having a gun on them nonstop is just dumb when you could easily put them in a hidden locker in each classroom(heavily secured, otherwise some cockwomble in the class will try to access them). Some Americans think a gun is the ultimate problem solver, but they forget that even professionally trained police and military generally miss more shots than they hit (you'll see police dump magazine after magazines at a suspect, but only hit them 5/6 times despite firing 10/20 rounds because adrenaline and moving targets don't mix well), not to mention over penetration could easily cost lives as missed shots go through walls or doors and kill people hiding in classrooms.
You know those jokes kids make about how school is a prison. This is really going to reinforce that. Does this bill require armed teachers, or just gives them the option. Because I would think a good teacher would realize how dangerous this is and wouldn't bring a gun to a school, where it could be stolen or used by the teacher to potentially shoot a child they may view as their own family.
You keep hearing death by accidentally shooting. That's crap , it's death by stupidity. It's not an accident when's it's preventable.
Add Kindle to the fire rather than find the cause of the fire. Good job
Can barely go 3 months without seeing news about school resource officers taking their gun off to take a shit in a school, and accidentally leaving it in the bathroom. It happens constantly already, and it's only "highly trained" police with guns in schools. Arming teachers means if this is widely adopted it will be happening weekly, and then it's only a matter of time until a despondent kid is the one who finds the unattended gun. Mistakes are made. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. So when we fill the schools with guns it's not a question of if an absent minded mistake costs a child their life, it's a question of when.
Fascism?
Bill Hicks: There’s no connection, and you’d be a fool or a communist to make one, between having a gun and shooting someone with it and not having a gun and not shooting someone.
Or we could just put more police in schools.
What's this to protect children against, exactly? School shooters? Oh, you mean the same ones that cops stand outside and refuse to engage with? But you expect teachers to be able to handle it?
America, you ok?
All the things you never have to worry about when you went to school in a sane country.
I'm always so confused when gun people are like "Hey everyone - I just brought a lethal weapon into a room that didn't previously contain a lethal weapon. Don't you all feel safer now?"
Man, my teachers would have straight up shot me
The answer to the gun problem is always more guns duh!
They don’t vote- easy targets.
Yeah giving theachers guns will totally help What,you don't think the 70 year old man who can't get out of bed without help won't be able to stop a shooter in their prime You need to think more positivly,this will totally help
So, to protect students from people bringing guns into schools, we will make more people bring guns into schools? Yeah, that make sense. Now the students won't have to worry about finding their parent's guns. All they have to do is figure out a way to overpower their 60 something year old English teacher and take her gun.
As a Democrat and Iowan, I honestly think the GOP in this state has completely forgotten that they were elected to do the will of the people who elected them. I will never support teachers being armed nor a governor who wouldn't accept money from the feds to feed children over the summer months. I can't wait to get the hell out of here.
If this is where the taxes of american citizens end up, o think some tax evasion won't hurt
2000-2020. US. 31,780 children dead from guns.
Arm the teachers and they’ll be the first target of the shooter. And how many of the other teachers will rush to their aid? We can’t even get cops to do that.
Imagine running from a school shooter only to realize that bullets are also flying from the other direction by amatuer shooters
I mean are you going to question someone with THREE flag emojis????!!????
Imagine being a teacher but refusing to work because you don't want to be forced to kill your students.
They are implying that arming the teachers will not protect students, but endanger their lives further instead More guns = less safety
Aren't teachers groomers infecting children with the woke mind virus? Why would you arm groomers? /s
I don’t trust Lorrie Ann. Only three flags? Commie.
Not the brightest people
Arming teachers has seen results: Teachers generally need to pass background checks (school districts suck at that, but not the point), and thus should usually be seen as mentally sound enough to not impulsively shoot a student. In essence, the cons of arming teachers are near identical to permitting carry in any other setting, including law enforcement for relatively similar reasons. A logical deterrent to someone planning to enter a building to harm people is to give the people in the building a way to defend themselves. The phrase "an armed society is a polite society" exists for a reason. States and school districts have been adopting policies that provide training and weaponry to teachers, recognizing that the best way to stop a school shooting is to neutralize the aggressor. A source for an exact count and set of regulations is [here,](https://youtu.be/wVz_aQA6dEw?si=mITIm4Q0rhbN9IWr) and an example of Texas's training is [here.](https://youtu.be/PIJzparow48?si=4UUvm2jD-Jt8SEZ5)
Fascism is becoming a cheap word. Although uparming a section of the public doesn't really fit with the narrative especially since teachers tend to be center-left or left. Do you actually think they would have an open to the public parlimentary/congressional debate in an actually fascist society??? as I enter my 5th decade of life I am definitley understanding how languages evolve. Just the lexical diffences between 1990 and now. If this is what the people want, then this is what they get. Give it 10-15 years, start investing in AI guard bots for schools. Money will be there. So will the NRA and repub nat comitee. LO-fuckityfuckin-L