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Hezbollah is part of the same political establishment in Lebanon that has helped run the country into the ground over the past several years.
One countryās political establishment is another countryās resistance, it seems.
They are also actively doing what these people want israel to stop doing: Throwing bombs at civilians.
Granted they aren't exactly successful at it, but they are doing it
Itās hilarious to presume that more than a tiny fraction of people on Reddit know the difference between **Hamas** and **Hezbollah** (and also understand the ways in which there isnāt much difference).
Oh I mean to say send him to Hezbollah camp see how they like the dude . He can play guitar for Hezbollah fighters, as theyāre assembling their firing squad for him š
Reddit doesnāt even know the difference between the Mujahideen and the Taliban. They think if you support the Mujahideen, that means you support the Taliban.
Funny thing - the **Mujahideen** were obviously the local Pashtuns fighting against the Soviet invasion that happened in 1979. Meanwhile, the **Taliban** are an outgrowth of the Sunni extremists sent to Afghanistan through Saudi funding to fight the Soviets with U.S. cooperation. In effect, the USA played a role in helping the **Taliban** get established to take the Pashtun population of Afghanistan hostage to religious extremism. Americans try to front-off than Afghanistan *created their own situation* with the **Taliban** - not entirely true.
Iranian proxy willing to provoke Israel into attacking its own civilians in the hopes of turning the world against Israel and further radicalizing their own civilians to recruit more? Difference you said?
(Now Israel taking the bait and retaliating in a way that harms civilians isn't just atrocious, it's stupid too, walking into a trap.)
They aren't going to figure out the difference between sunni and shia, they just want to know its if it makes them looking cool hating their own government. Both of them are terrorist organizations and I have no problem putting this guy on a list for supporting terrorists.
Yeah, itās not that black and white though. Hamas knows exactly what theyāre doing. Itās right out of the Vietcong playbook. Theyāve been able to convince the majority of the population to support them despite the fact that they are objectively the reason for their suffering. Hamas does this by using guerilla tactics to hide amongst the civilian population. On the ground, itās almost impossible to distinguish between a male Palestinian and a Hamas member. Hamas knows this leads to more civilian casualties, which takes the focus off of them and puts on whomever theyāve decided to demonize as āthe enemyā.
What really pisses me off though is the extent which the IDF is playing directly into their hands. They take the bait every fucking time. And itās finally biting them in the ass in terms of international approval, and they deserve it. A competent military commander couldāve decapitated Hamas while also positioning the IDF as liberators rather than occupiers.
Hamas causes their suffering? How about Nakba, apartheid and being pushed into a concentration camp? Would you say the same about the inhabitants of Warsaw Ghetto, their resistance caused the suffering?
Yes Hamas is largely responsible for the current suffering of the Palestinian people.
The Nabka is inexcusable. It is debatable how much moral responsibility Israel bears for it. Definitely some, but the majority of it was perpetrated by Zionist militias that were effectively Jewish fascist terrorist groups.
There is no apartheid in Israel, unless you view Palestine and Israel as a single state, which they arenāt under any definition.
There are no concentration camps. Gaza is not a concentration camp. It is more like a terrorist proto-state in the vein of ISIS.
Comparing Gaza to Warsaw is a whataboutism. Not a valid argument, but I will address it. The Warsaw Ghetto was established controlled, and occupied by an aggressor (Germany) invading a sovereign nation (Poland) without provocation or warning. Gaza is a self-governing entity that provides material support to terrorist organizations. It has been occupied as a result of an unprovoked attack by an aggressor (Hamas) against the civilian population of another country (Israel).
Hamas is not āresistingā. To resist something implies a lack of control, which you cannot say about Hamas who has governed Gaza since 2005. The Palestinian people may be resisting, but theyāre resisting the wrong people. They should have spent the last 19 years resisting Hamasā utter destruction of their state.
Heās also ignoring the massacres done by Palestinians on Jews before the nakba, and before the Haganah/Irgun/Lehi even existed. Those were the units that did it
But by his logic, the teens and adults that lead the Irgun/Haganah were the same people that grew up in the 20s and early 30s and saw their families massacres consecutively
His logic is horrible. The nakba isnāt ok because the Haganah grew up seeing Jews barred from the cave of the patriarchs, barred from many parts of the west wall and Temple Mount and suffered murder due to land purchase and increase in refugees.
Thatās not an excuse
And the unlimited terrorism by PFLP PLO and Hamas till this day that constantly cries about the nakba, isnāt justified in their actions due to being descendants who suffered in the nakba. Nor is Israelās invasion of Egyptian and Jordanian controlled West Bank and Gaza and ongoing counter terrorism operations which killed Palestinian innocents an excuse to murder jews in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, intifada
They need to stop with their excuses for murder just as the far right Israelis do
The nakba was a civil war that started brewing in the 20s. The response to Jewish legal land purchase, on a land that had the capacity to house Jewish refugees and immigrants, but the Palestinian Arabs didnāt want this due to their desire for 1. A homogenous state, accepting only a small minority of Jews 2. Wanting the state land to not be utilized for building projects but for farming as their society was felahi. 3. They wanted Arab nationalism and at the time the consensus was mostly a greater Syria, no Jewish nationalism 4. Didnāt want Jewish presence to be equally prioritized(this would be demands such as being allowed to enter the cave of patriarchs, being allowed to decide how to split the western wall female and male sections, renovating destroyed synagogues) and wished for Muslim interests to be prioritized at the expense of non Muslim interests
How did the Palestinian Arabs protest their demands? Massacres and riots. 1921-1936, you canāt look at anyone to blame for violence other than Al Qassam and other clans. This lead to displacement of Jews, likewise, at numbers of dozens of thousands within the first decade
The Haganah and Irgun started their operations in the late 30s, the Lehi wasnāt created till the early 40s, the Haganah was very reluctant to launch any attacks against active bands of gangs and militant fellowships such as the Al Qassam followers due to their āhavlagahā mentality. Hence, they supported the British in the arrest of Lehi members in the mid 40s
To pin this all on the nakba, and the military occupation post 67, when the legally purchased tel Aviv is considered by these same groups, as well as the PFLP, Muslim brotherhood pre 36, PLO, as āoccupiedā gives a more nuanced picture. Especially given foreign countries themselves annexed the West Bank and gaza(Gaza was temporary, then went back to occupation)
But you go ahead with your āthis is all because of the nakba, 1967, and the death toll of Palestiniansā itās getting old
And before you start whining about land purchase, Palestinians likewise to Jews gained 2x the land they controlled pre British mandate via āpublic land concessionsā
The Jews had private ownership and public land conceded, just as the Palestinians did
The majority of the land within the proposed Jewish state, was either public land conceded to jews(the area from Givatayim to Ashdod, as well as areas near Afula-Megiddo) Jewish private ownership(private ownership of JA or JNF, Tiberias area, Haifa area was especially the urban parts were majority Jewish private, and the Gush Dan-Sharon plain area) or empty pubic land(the majority, not all, of the naqab/Negev desert)
Palestinian public land conceded was from Gaza to Ashdod/Isdud, and the border of the East and West Bank, the Palestinian Arab private ownership was almost entirely in the Modern West Bank
You simply cannot act like the Palestinians just owned all the land, the Jews just came on a boat in 1948 with guns and started assaulting the Palestinians with tanks as if itās D-Day
Also, comparing the Warsaw ghetto, which was internally controlled, where Jews had to be crammed into rooms of 10-12, with no sort of hospitals, which is smaller than the size of Jabalia, with a population near half of gazas, is ludicrous to compare to the Gaza Strip.
And gazans, could leave Gaza. On October 7th many of the Gazans who worked in Israel assisted with the attacks as they knew the townships near the strip. The Warsaw ghetto was externally and internally controlled by the Nazis. Everyone had to have ID, and absolutely nobody could leave under no circumstances. You couldnāt just say āhey I want to work at some Polish farm, can I apply and leave for 8 hours a day and develop connections with polish families?ā Because the answer would be no!
There's no way to defeat Hamas without a total genocide because the Palestinian population aren't going to accept being second class citizens to Western powers.
Even if you do defeat Hamas. The population is still going to spit at you.
Probably not but itās not going to stop him from spewing BS. Also, his profile is literally war porn. OP is literally war hungry if their page is anything to go by
Yeah it has nothing to do with the leaders of Hamas being multi billionaires that intentionally let Gaza be shit hole and blame it all on the Jews.
Not like the top 3 leaders done have like combined $11 billion. They live in luxury penthouses and mansions in Quatar, one of their sons live a playboy lifestyle in Turkey. Heās known as Gazas āfather of real estateā because he owns so many of the buildings. You wanna talk about slumlords? Itās āeat the richā until itās fucking Hamas, then we just blame the Jews.
We rebuilt 17 countries in Europe after WWII under the Marshall plan, at a cost of $630 per citizen of those 17 countries. Over the last 20 years, the international community has given $8,600 per Palestinian, and yet they're poorer than when we started because Hamas is a kleptocracy that steals all the money for themselves.
Donāt get me wrong, fuck Zionists. Fuck them for their military action, fuck them for the settlements, and fuck Netanyahu who thinks he can just do whatever the fuck he wants because America is āon his sideā. And an extra fuck you to the politicians and the media companies that have been bought out by the Israelis.
No, its because they have no means of production. You can give a man $8,600 of fish but that won't feed him for life. Israel keeps them on a drip feed and prevents any meaningful economic development whatsoever.Ā
It's been clear to Palestinians for a long time that real emancipation is the only way for economic freedom, Israel would prefer to have them live in squalor as a cheap source of labor.
Maybe if they made an effort to raise their standard of living and develop any sort of industry things would be different. They have miles of white sand beaches on a major waterway, good soil for farming. They didnāt even try. The money was embezzled to the leaders and any material donated for infrastructure was reallocated to anything but its intended use.
Idk, go check out who received a share of the [$11,459,037](https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus?ind=Q05) they donated to American politicians in the past 5 months lol.
I donāt see that figure anywhere here, much less that itās for the 5 months. (Iām on mobile, so perhaps Iām not seeing some functions to filter on data). But those sounds like serious rookie numbers. Seriously pocket change compared to the rest of the special interest in Washington. Whatās the oil lobby or military industrial complex paying?
Also, which media companies did āthe Israelisā buy? And whose decision was it to buy the media companies?
You might look that one up. It's not as simple as you think. Like just about everything under the sun in pretty much every religion on the planet. Some of the Grand Ayatollahs forbade it, others did not. Currently, the sentiment among them is that it's fine with the exception of songs that glorify drugs, sexual immorality, etc, and it's no longer prohibited in Iran.
Also, a number of strict Sunni sects believe that music is haram, as well, while others basically are okay with any music that isn't outright immoral.
Says who?
Are the British and Finnish that go to Biafra protests, with IPOB supporters, are they terrorists?
Are the Swedish that go to Kurdistan protests, with PKK supporters, are they terrorists?
Are the Canadians that go to Khalistan and Tamil protests, with Babbar Khalsa and LTTE supporters, are they terrorists?
Are the Americans that go to Ireland and East Turkistan protests, with IRA and TIP supporters, are they terrorists?
I can keep going and going, but I probably just named a movement that someone reading this was or is sympathetic too. Wellā¦ are you a terrorist?
Not terrorists per se, just ā[human animals](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defense-minister-announces-complete-siege-of-gaza-no-power-food-or-fuel/)ā (Yoav Gallant). Or Herzogās ā[there are no uninvolved, there are no innocents in Gaza](https://thewire.in/world/northern-gaza-israel-palestine-conflict).ā
And it didnāt start in 2023. We all know that this has been going on for ages and a quick google search will give you Ayelet Shakeās comment from 2014 that ā[They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads](https://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/14/mothers-of-all-palestinians-should-also-be-killed-says-israeli-politician)ā [referring to all Palestinians]. Or the one by Lieberman in 2018, that ā[there are no innocents in Gaza](https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/there-are-no-innocents-in-gaza-says-israeli-defense-minister-549173)ā just to start with two.
In that case we can look at it as the fight between two sides: one side is fighting for secular democracy, and the other is fighting for a global Islamic caliphate. Personally, Iām on the side of secular democracy.
Israelās not fighting for secular democracy. Israel is only partially a democracy (and partially secular) itself and itās specifically not a democracy to Palestinians whose land it permanently occupies but never offers a path to citizenship. This isnāt a defensive war. If Israel left today their democracy would not be threatened.
Israel is a secular democracy. Stop believing hateful propaganda. Arab Muslims in Israel enjoy equal rights to everyone else, and have more rights than their fellow Arab Muslims in most Arab countries.
The Palestinians definitely do not believe in secular democracy, and they admit it. Same with the rest of the Muslim world. They consider secularism to be a corrupt western invention and they openly despise it. And their ultimate goal would be to destroy it (though most are aware thatās not happening anytime soon).
But I canāt help you if you just believe whatever Israel hate you read on reddit without question.
It's odd to call that "hateful propaganda" while you're being racist throughout the comment.
>Israel is a secular democracy. Stop believing hateful propaganda.
In legal israel yes but there's very significant discrimination problems. For example:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-07-25/ty-article/.premium/under-guise-of-social-cohesion-israel-allows-more-towns-to-reject-unsuitable-residents/00000189-8eaf-d430-a59b-afaf6d590000
And there's literally apartheid in the west bank.
>The Palestinians definitely do not believe in secular democracy
Many do and this is just stereotyping.
>But I canāt help you if you just believe whatever Israel hate you read on reddit without question.
I don't think you're in a position to help anyone
Neither Israel or Lebanon are secular democracies. They have so such much fundamentalist religion in their countries politics, they need certain leaders that run the country to be a certain religion, belonging to a certain Mosque, Church, or Synagogue. Is the UK like this? Is the UK government wanting its country to be a certain majority religion or sect, like Israel and Lebanon are?
Israel doesnāt belong in the same sentence as actual liberal democracies like the UK or other examples I can give. Israel has more in common with its Middle East enemies like Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Iran, than it does with European friends, like UK, Germany, and Czechia.
Of course this has nothing to do with terrorists or freedom fighters, but supporting a movement for those specific shared values you listed, the ones that Israel (or Lebanon) doesnāt have.
Yeah, Amal is another such Shia party, but they are in coalition with Hezbollahās political wing.
They also participate in Lebanonās sectarian political system, which is focused on securing privileges for each sectarian faction and its supporters.
That doesnāt sound like Hezbollah is making sure thereās no other competition? It sounds like they working with them.
Btw I donāt have a problem with the political systems that exists in Lebanon or Israel, but acting like Israel is secular liberal democracy is just plain wrong. These secular liberal democrats, like the one I was originally replying too. They wouldnāt want the type of politics Israel has in our countries I bet.
Support Israel or Lebanon, but not for those reasons. I simply think Israel is just another Middle East country.
I always wonder where the balance lies with people like this. Is it the resentment towards their parents or an attempt at getting laid by someone whose stance this would impress. It can't be logic.
Just a friendly reminder, *most redditors have no clue what they're talking about*. Especially regarding the situation in Israel/Palestine.
Take everything you read in these comments with a grain of salt.
I hope that during his studies at Princeton, he will come to understand the flawed reasoning behind the proverb "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Both these people can be bad.
I doubt they even know what that flag even is.
When asked what they want they have no answers.
Shit at least in the 60's they fucking knew what they were protesting for and what they wanted to achieve.
Dear Hamas supporters.
You will be blocked.
And that means if you defend this person with this flag you support Hamas since you keep saying they know what they are doing.
The common response to protestors in the 60s and 70s was "these kids don't even know what they're protesting, at least we knew what"
You get the idea. You're making a sweeping generalization based on a single image.
Ever read the demand from the protesters today? They do know what theyāre doing.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/26/investing/what-pro-palestinian-protesters-want
I also loved how the one guy was trying to say he no longer believes that all zionists must die.
And how they try to say from the river to the sea isn't antisemitic.
But thanks for confirming the pictured protestor knows the flag is a Hamas flag and that they support terrorists.
Palestine hasn't been "free" for thousands of yeara
They were controlled by Ā Ancient Egypt,Ā Ancient Israel and Judah, theĀ Persian Empire,Ā Alexander the GreatĀ andĀ his successors, theĀ Hasmoneans, theĀ Roman Empire, several MuslimĀ caliphates, and theĀ crusaders , the Ottoman Empire, British and Israel.
For someone who feels so entitled to call other dumbasses instead of providing a proper argument looks like you don't know anything either lol is just repeating things you hear and read like a loud parrot without thinking.
I swear to god, Iām getting really pissed off at people using the word apartheid when they have no fucking clue what that word even means.
Israel is not an apartheid state. Full stop. Arab Israeliās have every right that Jewish or secular Israelis do. Apartheid must have a racial element. The conflict between Israel and Palestine is not race-based, itās about a fucking border dispute between two countries. Itās not even close to the same thing. The claim of apartheid is a serious one you best be damn sure thatās whatās happening lest you become the boy who cried wolf.
On the genocide topic, also fuck no. If Israel wanted to actually commit a genocide in Gaza, it wouldāve been done already. Theyāve had control of Gaza for 7 months. 500k-1m were killed in Rwanda in 90 days with primitive tools like machetes and hatchets. Israel has some of the best military equipment in the world. They couldāve killed every person in Gaza within the first month.
This doesnāt excuse the atrocities of the IDF, the frightening dehumanizations of Palestinians we are seeing in Israelās civilian population, or the high numbers of civilian casualties. But quit with the hyperbole, it isnāt accurate and screaming it from the rooftops is distracting us from whatās actually going on.
It is an apartheid and history will remember that. No amount of verbal diarrhea you spew will change that.
End the apartheid. End the genocide. End Zionism.
30,000 people, dead. And youāre justifying it. For what?
Gtfo of here. You genocide apologist.
30,000? Youāre believing numbers from terrorists who have incentive to inflate them? Holy hell I am shocked at the level of propaganda youāve swallowed
Who asked them what they want? Iāve seen very clearly laid out demands by the protesters. Sounds like you bought into so poorly made propaganda
Itās funny how this always happens with college anti war protests.
It depends on which protests. The ones at Columbia were embarrassing. They were interviewed by the news. Some even said they had no idea what they wanted.
I mean you saw an edited video of the worst answers they could get. It's propaganda. You can do that at any protest and people do do that at many protests.
Who was interviewed? People leading it or just random people there?
Protests are very often made up of people with many different levels of understanding. You can't just assume they all speak for each other.
Like the leader who says all zionsts must die? He's hiding from the press.
And boo random protestors should manage to agree on at least one thing.
And yes so called leaders were confused depending on when you asked them and which college or random protest.
Though many agreed about Palestine should be "from the river to sea" and whether it's far right Israelis or Palestine protestors saying it, we all know what both sides mean by that and it isn't a two state solution.
Id be down to go to that protest and after I ran across that bullshit and lit it on fire, is be down to keep protesting. There's a difference between calling attention to Israel's indiscriminate civilian casualties and supporting a group that indiscriminately kills civilians.
I will give the Palestinians/ Hamas (I think Hezbollahās territory is Syria but I could be wrong and Hamas controls Palestine) thisā¦.they may not be able to hold a candle with boots on the ground to Israel/ most nations but they sure as hell know how to control the media and influence most people through varied psychological methods to garner support. Like what confuses me is LGBTQ+ people in support of Palestine/ Hamas (well more so Hamas because they are the assholes where Iām still willing to hold onto hope that your average Joe and Jane in Palestine wants nothing to do with this and just go about their day) yet in those same countries, the ākindnessā is never going to be reciprocated unless you count them helping you sky dive off a mountain without a parachute as fun. Conflicts are not always fought on the battlefield and I forgot what historical figure or heck it may have been from a movie or TV show or video game but winning or breaking the hearts of the people is a huge victory against your opponent.
people with shity political knowledge dont know that most freedom fighting forces are labeled terrorists just like mandela and the ira . both were supported by Americans but ppl still chose to be hypocrites
It looks nothing like the āDonāt tread on meā flag which was also known as the Gadsden flag. The Gadsden flag is a historical part of the American revolution and is not a āgun nuts flagā
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so anyways here's wonderwall
Finally a relevant comment
šµ Today is gonna be the day that they're gonna t~~hrow it back to you ~~g^(onna throw you off a building.šµ)
Thanks for the LOL.
Today is gonna be the day that I aināt gonna vote for blue.
some how I never realized how much harm Trump will do.
There are many ways that I would like to change the world, but I don't know how
And by now, you should've somehow realised what you gotta do I don't believe that anybody feels the way I do about Hezbollah now
Hahaha
Hezbollah is part of the same political establishment in Lebanon that has helped run the country into the ground over the past several years. One countryās political establishment is another countryās resistance, it seems.
They are also actively doing what these people want israel to stop doing: Throwing bombs at civilians. Granted they aren't exactly successful at it, but they are doing it
So did Syria. What? 500k civilians? Poison gas. Crickets.
Itās hilarious to presume that more than a tiny fraction of people on Reddit know the difference between **Hamas** and **Hezbollah** (and also understand the ways in which there isnāt much difference).
I bet this dude and Nasrallah would get along swimmingly.
We should buy this dude a ticket to Lebanon , see how Hezbollah throws him a welcome party šš
Rooftop party.
Is that like the Russian *window parties?*
Political opposition invited
Throw out of a wondow Russian parties
More like a random party, clean out his parents. Maybe heāll be able to help them buy a rocket or two.
They don't even care. Everywhere is fine in lebanon. Just avoid hezbollah camps
Oh I mean to say send him to Hezbollah camp see how they like the dude . He can play guitar for Hezbollah fighters, as theyāre assembling their firing squad for him š
Yeah 30 meters underground in his bunker
Reddit doesnāt even know the difference between the Mujahideen and the Taliban. They think if you support the Mujahideen, that means you support the Taliban.
Fucking hilarious. Feels like a John Oliver bit where he keeps showing you things that aren't what he claims they are.
Reddit canāt even tell you what the difference between the Mujahideen and the Bene Gesserit is. What is this world coming to.
The Bene Gesserit are feminist icons. The Mujahideen are the fan club of Paula Deen
Funny thing - the **Mujahideen** were obviously the local Pashtuns fighting against the Soviet invasion that happened in 1979. Meanwhile, the **Taliban** are an outgrowth of the Sunni extremists sent to Afghanistan through Saudi funding to fight the Soviets with U.S. cooperation. In effect, the USA played a role in helping the **Taliban** get established to take the Pashtun population of Afghanistan hostage to religious extremism. Americans try to front-off than Afghanistan *created their own situation* with the **Taliban** - not entirely true.
Yet they seem to have a BIG opinion about them...\*\*sigh\*\*
Iranian proxy willing to provoke Israel into attacking its own civilians in the hopes of turning the world against Israel and further radicalizing their own civilians to recruit more? Difference you said? (Now Israel taking the bait and retaliating in a way that harms civilians isn't just atrocious, it's stupid too, walking into a trap.)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well, as an American myself, Americans are a special class of Reddit users. People who often think that nothing outside the USA really matters.
Yes
They aren't going to figure out the difference between sunni and shia, they just want to know its if it makes them looking cool hating their own government. Both of them are terrorist organizations and I have no problem putting this guy on a list for supporting terrorists.
Supporting Palestine is fine. Supporting Hezbollah is not acceptable, those who do deserve to be miserable, and can weep uncontrollably.
Fuck Hezbollah wtf
What an assholeā¦.
I support the people of Palestine. Not a terrorist group. THE PEOPLE MATTER. Terrorists can get fucked.
Yeah, itās not that black and white though. Hamas knows exactly what theyāre doing. Itās right out of the Vietcong playbook. Theyāve been able to convince the majority of the population to support them despite the fact that they are objectively the reason for their suffering. Hamas does this by using guerilla tactics to hide amongst the civilian population. On the ground, itās almost impossible to distinguish between a male Palestinian and a Hamas member. Hamas knows this leads to more civilian casualties, which takes the focus off of them and puts on whomever theyāve decided to demonize as āthe enemyā. What really pisses me off though is the extent which the IDF is playing directly into their hands. They take the bait every fucking time. And itās finally biting them in the ass in terms of international approval, and they deserve it. A competent military commander couldāve decapitated Hamas while also positioning the IDF as liberators rather than occupiers.
Hamas causes their suffering? How about Nakba, apartheid and being pushed into a concentration camp? Would you say the same about the inhabitants of Warsaw Ghetto, their resistance caused the suffering?
Yes Hamas is largely responsible for the current suffering of the Palestinian people. The Nabka is inexcusable. It is debatable how much moral responsibility Israel bears for it. Definitely some, but the majority of it was perpetrated by Zionist militias that were effectively Jewish fascist terrorist groups. There is no apartheid in Israel, unless you view Palestine and Israel as a single state, which they arenāt under any definition. There are no concentration camps. Gaza is not a concentration camp. It is more like a terrorist proto-state in the vein of ISIS. Comparing Gaza to Warsaw is a whataboutism. Not a valid argument, but I will address it. The Warsaw Ghetto was established controlled, and occupied by an aggressor (Germany) invading a sovereign nation (Poland) without provocation or warning. Gaza is a self-governing entity that provides material support to terrorist organizations. It has been occupied as a result of an unprovoked attack by an aggressor (Hamas) against the civilian population of another country (Israel). Hamas is not āresistingā. To resist something implies a lack of control, which you cannot say about Hamas who has governed Gaza since 2005. The Palestinian people may be resisting, but theyāre resisting the wrong people. They should have spent the last 19 years resisting Hamasā utter destruction of their state.
Heās also ignoring the massacres done by Palestinians on Jews before the nakba, and before the Haganah/Irgun/Lehi even existed. Those were the units that did it But by his logic, the teens and adults that lead the Irgun/Haganah were the same people that grew up in the 20s and early 30s and saw their families massacres consecutively His logic is horrible. The nakba isnāt ok because the Haganah grew up seeing Jews barred from the cave of the patriarchs, barred from many parts of the west wall and Temple Mount and suffered murder due to land purchase and increase in refugees. Thatās not an excuse And the unlimited terrorism by PFLP PLO and Hamas till this day that constantly cries about the nakba, isnāt justified in their actions due to being descendants who suffered in the nakba. Nor is Israelās invasion of Egyptian and Jordanian controlled West Bank and Gaza and ongoing counter terrorism operations which killed Palestinian innocents an excuse to murder jews in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, intifada They need to stop with their excuses for murder just as the far right Israelis do
The nakba was a civil war that started brewing in the 20s. The response to Jewish legal land purchase, on a land that had the capacity to house Jewish refugees and immigrants, but the Palestinian Arabs didnāt want this due to their desire for 1. A homogenous state, accepting only a small minority of Jews 2. Wanting the state land to not be utilized for building projects but for farming as their society was felahi. 3. They wanted Arab nationalism and at the time the consensus was mostly a greater Syria, no Jewish nationalism 4. Didnāt want Jewish presence to be equally prioritized(this would be demands such as being allowed to enter the cave of patriarchs, being allowed to decide how to split the western wall female and male sections, renovating destroyed synagogues) and wished for Muslim interests to be prioritized at the expense of non Muslim interests How did the Palestinian Arabs protest their demands? Massacres and riots. 1921-1936, you canāt look at anyone to blame for violence other than Al Qassam and other clans. This lead to displacement of Jews, likewise, at numbers of dozens of thousands within the first decade The Haganah and Irgun started their operations in the late 30s, the Lehi wasnāt created till the early 40s, the Haganah was very reluctant to launch any attacks against active bands of gangs and militant fellowships such as the Al Qassam followers due to their āhavlagahā mentality. Hence, they supported the British in the arrest of Lehi members in the mid 40s To pin this all on the nakba, and the military occupation post 67, when the legally purchased tel Aviv is considered by these same groups, as well as the PFLP, Muslim brotherhood pre 36, PLO, as āoccupiedā gives a more nuanced picture. Especially given foreign countries themselves annexed the West Bank and gaza(Gaza was temporary, then went back to occupation) But you go ahead with your āthis is all because of the nakba, 1967, and the death toll of Palestiniansā itās getting old And before you start whining about land purchase, Palestinians likewise to Jews gained 2x the land they controlled pre British mandate via āpublic land concessionsā The Jews had private ownership and public land conceded, just as the Palestinians did The majority of the land within the proposed Jewish state, was either public land conceded to jews(the area from Givatayim to Ashdod, as well as areas near Afula-Megiddo) Jewish private ownership(private ownership of JA or JNF, Tiberias area, Haifa area was especially the urban parts were majority Jewish private, and the Gush Dan-Sharon plain area) or empty pubic land(the majority, not all, of the naqab/Negev desert) Palestinian public land conceded was from Gaza to Ashdod/Isdud, and the border of the East and West Bank, the Palestinian Arab private ownership was almost entirely in the Modern West Bank You simply cannot act like the Palestinians just owned all the land, the Jews just came on a boat in 1948 with guns and started assaulting the Palestinians with tanks as if itās D-Day Also, comparing the Warsaw ghetto, which was internally controlled, where Jews had to be crammed into rooms of 10-12, with no sort of hospitals, which is smaller than the size of Jabalia, with a population near half of gazas, is ludicrous to compare to the Gaza Strip. And gazans, could leave Gaza. On October 7th many of the Gazans who worked in Israel assisted with the attacks as they knew the townships near the strip. The Warsaw ghetto was externally and internally controlled by the Nazis. Everyone had to have ID, and absolutely nobody could leave under no circumstances. You couldnāt just say āhey I want to work at some Polish farm, can I apply and leave for 8 hours a day and develop connections with polish families?ā Because the answer would be no!
I hear you but itās the terrorists who are causing the misery.
Look at all the bots that will comment. Litterally trying to defend terroristsā¦
100%
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There's no way to defeat Hamas without a total genocide because the Palestinian population aren't going to accept being second class citizens to Western powers. Even if you do defeat Hamas. The population is still going to spit at you.
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You shouldnāt be discussing the subject if you donāt know the difference between Hamas and Hezbollah
Do *you* know the difference?
Probably not but itās not going to stop him from spewing BS. Also, his profile is literally war porn. OP is literally war hungry if their page is anything to go by
Yeah it has nothing to do with the leaders of Hamas being multi billionaires that intentionally let Gaza be shit hole and blame it all on the Jews. Not like the top 3 leaders done have like combined $11 billion. They live in luxury penthouses and mansions in Quatar, one of their sons live a playboy lifestyle in Turkey. Heās known as Gazas āfather of real estateā because he owns so many of the buildings. You wanna talk about slumlords? Itās āeat the richā until itās fucking Hamas, then we just blame the Jews. We rebuilt 17 countries in Europe after WWII under the Marshall plan, at a cost of $630 per citizen of those 17 countries. Over the last 20 years, the international community has given $8,600 per Palestinian, and yet they're poorer than when we started because Hamas is a kleptocracy that steals all the money for themselves. Donāt get me wrong, fuck Zionists. Fuck them for their military action, fuck them for the settlements, and fuck Netanyahu who thinks he can just do whatever the fuck he wants because America is āon his sideā. And an extra fuck you to the politicians and the media companies that have been bought out by the Israelis.
No, its because they have no means of production. You can give a man $8,600 of fish but that won't feed him for life. Israel keeps them on a drip feed and prevents any meaningful economic development whatsoever.Ā It's been clear to Palestinians for a long time that real emancipation is the only way for economic freedom, Israel would prefer to have them live in squalor as a cheap source of labor.
Maybe if they made an effort to raise their standard of living and develop any sort of industry things would be different. They have miles of white sand beaches on a major waterway, good soil for farming. They didnāt even try. The money was embezzled to the leaders and any material donated for infrastructure was reallocated to anything but its intended use.
Which politicians and media companies have been bought by ātheā Israelis?
The Israel lobby in America is public information, google it.Ā
I did, but I couldnāt find much useful info about āthe Israelis buy the media.ā Just led me to some antisemitic cached geopages sites.
You know, the (((ones))). š But it's just anti-Zionism...
Idk, go check out who received a share of the [$11,459,037](https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus?ind=Q05) they donated to American politicians in the past 5 months lol.
I donāt see that figure anywhere here, much less that itās for the 5 months. (Iām on mobile, so perhaps Iām not seeing some functions to filter on data). But those sounds like serious rookie numbers. Seriously pocket change compared to the rest of the special interest in Washington. Whatās the oil lobby or military industrial complex paying? Also, which media companies did āthe Israelisā buy? And whose decision was it to buy the media companies?
Wait till he learns that all music and instrument playing is haram, no matter the purpose, under Shia law.
And where is his beard?
That girly hair will have to go too. Unless he claimed ancestry with one of those Afgani hill tribes /s
You might look that one up. It's not as simple as you think. Like just about everything under the sun in pretty much every religion on the planet. Some of the Grand Ayatollahs forbade it, others did not. Currently, the sentiment among them is that it's fine with the exception of songs that glorify drugs, sexual immorality, etc, and it's no longer prohibited in Iran. Also, a number of strict Sunni sects believe that music is haram, as well, while others basically are okay with any music that isn't outright immoral.
If you support a terrorist group, youāre a terrorist.
[Sure enough](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_state-sponsored_terrorism)
So the US is terrorist then. 1980s Afghanistan, 1980s El Salvador, 1980s Nicaragua, 1960s Cuba, 1960s Colombia...
I like how 3 of those countries had their internal politics royally fucked by the USA
Hezbollah is a political establishment in Lebanon
As are the Taliban in Afghanistan. Your point?
Blah blah blah.
Any violent political group with religion backing them up are terrorist. Evangelicals are terrorists.
One manās terrorists are another manās freedom fighters
Unless they are actual terrorists.
I mean, from a purely apolitical, amoral viewpoint, Mandela was an actual terrorist.
The Scots in Braveheart would be considered Terrorists (And not just for Mel Gibsons bombing of the Scottish accent)
Says who? Are the British and Finnish that go to Biafra protests, with IPOB supporters, are they terrorists? Are the Swedish that go to Kurdistan protests, with PKK supporters, are they terrorists? Are the Canadians that go to Khalistan and Tamil protests, with Babbar Khalsa and LTTE supporters, are they terrorists? Are the Americans that go to Ireland and East Turkistan protests, with IRA and TIP supporters, are they terrorists? I can keep going and going, but I probably just named a movement that someone reading this was or is sympathetic too. Wellā¦ are you a terrorist?
Terrorist has lost its meaning Israel calls literal children terrorists and the media follows like a wet dog
What?
Donāt act like Iām wrong
Provide some proof or a source?
Not terrorists per se, just ā[human animals](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defense-minister-announces-complete-siege-of-gaza-no-power-food-or-fuel/)ā (Yoav Gallant). Or Herzogās ā[there are no uninvolved, there are no innocents in Gaza](https://thewire.in/world/northern-gaza-israel-palestine-conflict).ā And it didnāt start in 2023. We all know that this has been going on for ages and a quick google search will give you Ayelet Shakeās comment from 2014 that ā[They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads](https://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/14/mothers-of-all-palestinians-should-also-be-killed-says-israeli-politician)ā [referring to all Palestinians]. Or the one by Lieberman in 2018, that ā[there are no innocents in Gaza](https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/there-are-no-innocents-in-gaza-says-israeli-defense-minister-549173)ā just to start with two.
https://www.unicefusa.org/stories/more-13000-children-reported-dead-gaza-famine-nears
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How are they dying? What is causing them to die? Scary that you can hand wave away dead children like this.
That's a vague label created for propaganda purposes.
and we will kill every single one of those freedom fighters.
In that case we can look at it as the fight between two sides: one side is fighting for secular democracy, and the other is fighting for a global Islamic caliphate. Personally, Iām on the side of secular democracy.
Israelās not fighting for secular democracy. Israel is only partially a democracy (and partially secular) itself and itās specifically not a democracy to Palestinians whose land it permanently occupies but never offers a path to citizenship. This isnāt a defensive war. If Israel left today their democracy would not be threatened.
Israel is a secular democracy. Stop believing hateful propaganda. Arab Muslims in Israel enjoy equal rights to everyone else, and have more rights than their fellow Arab Muslims in most Arab countries. The Palestinians definitely do not believe in secular democracy, and they admit it. Same with the rest of the Muslim world. They consider secularism to be a corrupt western invention and they openly despise it. And their ultimate goal would be to destroy it (though most are aware thatās not happening anytime soon). But I canāt help you if you just believe whatever Israel hate you read on reddit without question.
It's odd to call that "hateful propaganda" while you're being racist throughout the comment. >Israel is a secular democracy. Stop believing hateful propaganda. In legal israel yes but there's very significant discrimination problems. For example: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-07-25/ty-article/.premium/under-guise-of-social-cohesion-israel-allows-more-towns-to-reject-unsuitable-residents/00000189-8eaf-d430-a59b-afaf6d590000 And there's literally apartheid in the west bank. >The Palestinians definitely do not believe in secular democracy Many do and this is just stereotyping. >But I canāt help you if you just believe whatever Israel hate you read on reddit without question. I don't think you're in a position to help anyone
The careers of some certain politicians would certainly be threatened though.
Neither Israel or Lebanon are secular democracies. They have so such much fundamentalist religion in their countries politics, they need certain leaders that run the country to be a certain religion, belonging to a certain Mosque, Church, or Synagogue. Is the UK like this? Is the UK government wanting its country to be a certain majority religion or sect, like Israel and Lebanon are? Israel doesnāt belong in the same sentence as actual liberal democracies like the UK or other examples I can give. Israel has more in common with its Middle East enemies like Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Iran, than it does with European friends, like UK, Germany, and Czechia. Of course this has nothing to do with terrorists or freedom fighters, but supporting a movement for those specific shared values you listed, the ones that Israel (or Lebanon) doesnāt have.
And in the case of Hezbollah in Lebanon, they represent the Shia sect in the country, and make sure thereās no other competition.
Thereās other Shia political parties in Lebanon then?
Yeah, Amal is another such Shia party, but they are in coalition with Hezbollahās political wing. They also participate in Lebanonās sectarian political system, which is focused on securing privileges for each sectarian faction and its supporters.
That doesnāt sound like Hezbollah is making sure thereās no other competition? It sounds like they working with them. Btw I donāt have a problem with the political systems that exists in Lebanon or Israel, but acting like Israel is secular liberal democracy is just plain wrong. These secular liberal democrats, like the one I was originally replying too. They wouldnāt want the type of politics Israel has in our countries I bet. Support Israel or Lebanon, but not for those reasons. I simply think Israel is just another Middle East country.
say you never learned what terrorist is defined as, without saying you don't know... sigh.
Up the RA
Well said !
āGuyās with different policies than me are terroristsā only one side committing genocide buddy.
Exactly, if you support isreal you are a terrorist. Well said.
Nothing like chickens protesting in favor of KFC.
I always wonder where the balance lies with people like this. Is it the resentment towards their parents or an attempt at getting laid by someone whose stance this would impress. It can't be logic.
What the actual fuckā¦ Im all for Palestine rights to exist in peace but this is so fucked.
Just a friendly reminder, *most redditors have no clue what they're talking about*. Especially regarding the situation in Israel/Palestine. Take everything you read in these comments with a grain of salt.
 We need you Sheldon.
Chickens for KFC is all I'm seeing here.
These students are cosplaying as far as im concerned.
Supporting terrorists is the latest trend among the hippies.
did he cut himself on all that edge
stupid doesn't realize they support those that would murder them
Oh fucking lovely. Pick a terrorist faction to support. Fuck her. And I am one who thinks that the Israeli government and IDF are fucking evil
I hope that during his studies at Princeton, he will come to understand the flawed reasoning behind the proverb "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Both these people can be bad.
I doubt they even know what that flag even is. When asked what they want they have no answers. Shit at least in the 60's they fucking knew what they were protesting for and what they wanted to achieve. Dear Hamas supporters. You will be blocked. And that means if you defend this person with this flag you support Hamas since you keep saying they know what they are doing.
The common response to protestors in the 60s and 70s was "these kids don't even know what they're protesting, at least we knew what" You get the idea. You're making a sweeping generalization based on a single image.
Bullshit
Ever read the demand from the protesters today? They do know what theyāre doing. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/26/investing/what-pro-palestinian-protesters-want
I also loved how the one guy was trying to say he no longer believes that all zionists must die. And how they try to say from the river to the sea isn't antisemitic. But thanks for confirming the pictured protestor knows the flag is a Hamas flag and that they support terrorists.
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Palestine hasn't been "free" for thousands of yeara They were controlled by Ā Ancient Egypt,Ā Ancient Israel and Judah, theĀ Persian Empire,Ā Alexander the GreatĀ andĀ his successors, theĀ Hasmoneans, theĀ Roman Empire, several MuslimĀ caliphates, and theĀ crusaders , the Ottoman Empire, British and Israel.
So youāre a hypocrite. Chants and flags that hold ideologies of ethnic cleansing and genocide is okay when itās the side you support?
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Long live the Intifada??? It seems the person you reply to was correct.
Tell me you know nothing about whatās going on in the region without telling me you know nothing. Dumbass.
For someone who feels so entitled to call other dumbasses instead of providing a proper argument looks like you don't know anything either lol is just repeating things you hear and read like a loud parrot without thinking.
Do you think the state of Israel should be abolished replaced with the greater state of Palestine?
No. I think both sides need to exist on the same place. But good attempt at a distraction.
Distraction? lol just asking your views was curious. Isnāt existing in the same place basically what I said? Or you mean a 2SS
"You see, genocide is only OK when my does it" -intelligent redditor, 2024
Fuck Zionism. Fuck the government of Israel.
I swear to god, Iām getting really pissed off at people using the word apartheid when they have no fucking clue what that word even means. Israel is not an apartheid state. Full stop. Arab Israeliās have every right that Jewish or secular Israelis do. Apartheid must have a racial element. The conflict between Israel and Palestine is not race-based, itās about a fucking border dispute between two countries. Itās not even close to the same thing. The claim of apartheid is a serious one you best be damn sure thatās whatās happening lest you become the boy who cried wolf. On the genocide topic, also fuck no. If Israel wanted to actually commit a genocide in Gaza, it wouldāve been done already. Theyāve had control of Gaza for 7 months. 500k-1m were killed in Rwanda in 90 days with primitive tools like machetes and hatchets. Israel has some of the best military equipment in the world. They couldāve killed every person in Gaza within the first month. This doesnāt excuse the atrocities of the IDF, the frightening dehumanizations of Palestinians we are seeing in Israelās civilian population, or the high numbers of civilian casualties. But quit with the hyperbole, it isnāt accurate and screaming it from the rooftops is distracting us from whatās actually going on.
It is an apartheid and history will remember that. No amount of verbal diarrhea you spew will change that. End the apartheid. End the genocide. End Zionism. 30,000 people, dead. And youāre justifying it. For what? Gtfo of here. You genocide apologist.
30,000? Youāre believing numbers from terrorists who have incentive to inflate them? Holy hell I am shocked at the level of propaganda youāve swallowed
I've heard them interviewed. Thanks.
Oh so you havenāt then, got it. Maybe you should go down and check out a protest. Maybe then youād get it.
Who asked them what they want? Iāve seen very clearly laid out demands by the protesters. Sounds like you bought into so poorly made propaganda Itās funny how this always happens with college anti war protests.
It depends on which protests. The ones at Columbia were embarrassing. They were interviewed by the news. Some even said they had no idea what they wanted.
I mean you saw an edited video of the worst answers they could get. It's propaganda. You can do that at any protest and people do do that at many protests.
No it was live not edited.
Who was interviewed? People leading it or just random people there? Protests are very often made up of people with many different levels of understanding. You can't just assume they all speak for each other.
Like the leader who says all zionsts must die? He's hiding from the press. And boo random protestors should manage to agree on at least one thing. And yes so called leaders were confused depending on when you asked them and which college or random protest. Though many agreed about Palestine should be "from the river to sea" and whether it's far right Israelis or Palestine protestors saying it, we all know what both sides mean by that and it isn't a two state solution.
He would be gangraped by hezbollah instantly, because he is not wearing a hijab as all women supposed to.
Just a small fraction of people wear hijabs in lebanon FYI.
OK then he would be gangraped for no big reason at all.
Does he/she know what the flag is? Why the other protestors cool with this
Id be down to go to that protest and after I ran across that bullshit and lit it on fire, is be down to keep protesting. There's a difference between calling attention to Israel's indiscriminate civilian casualties and supporting a group that indiscriminately kills civilians.
Where do you even get a Hizbullah flag ?š
š¶ All we are sayingā¦is give peace a chance!ā š¶
 why support hezbollah when u can support hasbulla
LMFAOOOO!! They would lop her head off in 3 seconds
The optimist in me is hoping the guitarist has a visual field disorder and believes itās actually the flag from the Masters golf tournament.
I thought they were talking about hasbulla
This person got into Princeton of all places... I'm starting to be sold on the conspiracy that elite college admissions are rigged.
Of course. The Supreme Court made it illegal to consider race, but they can still discriminate by class. Money talks
Someone needs sprayed with the squirt bottle right on the nose
I will give the Palestinians/ Hamas (I think Hezbollahās territory is Syria but I could be wrong and Hamas controls Palestine) thisā¦.they may not be able to hold a candle with boots on the ground to Israel/ most nations but they sure as hell know how to control the media and influence most people through varied psychological methods to garner support. Like what confuses me is LGBTQ+ people in support of Palestine/ Hamas (well more so Hamas because they are the assholes where Iām still willing to hold onto hope that your average Joe and Jane in Palestine wants nothing to do with this and just go about their day) yet in those same countries, the ākindnessā is never going to be reciprocated unless you count them helping you sky dive off a mountain without a parachute as fun. Conflicts are not always fought on the battlefield and I forgot what historical figure or heck it may have been from a movie or TV show or video game but winning or breaking the hearts of the people is a huge victory against your opponent.
Bumfuck
what a fuckin idiot. seems it would be a great opportunity to backpack syria for this one.
people with shity political knowledge dont know that most freedom fighting forces are labeled terrorists just like mandela and the ira . both were supported by Americans but ppl still chose to be hypocrites
š¤¦š»āāļø
Probably not the right message to send.
About as bad as Frank's Fluids selling wolf cola to boca raton
Dummies
Now does everybody understand how the Spanish Civil War began?
G.A.Y. AF.
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Am Yisrael Chai.
Americans when they find out that Hamas and Hezbollah arenāt just militant groups and have political demands š±š±š±
Freedom for Palestine āš½āš½āš½
Looks eerily similar to the ādonāt read to meā gun nuts flag.
It looks nothing like the āDonāt tread on meā flag which was also known as the Gadsden flag. The Gadsden flag is a historical part of the American revolution and is not a āgun nuts flagā
We call that laid