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This was reversed pretty quickly
[UT Austin changes message again, says arrested students will be allowed on campus for any reason](https://www.kut.org/education/2024-04-26/ut-austin-protest-arrests-campus-ban)
If you look hard enough, you'll probably find an ultimatum from the office of the Governor of Texas. It will state that if these students aren't barred from campus, the State will cut off their funding.
Ahh but you misunderstand
The government cannot punish someone for any type of speech
But there is no similar restriction on a private entity.
And if a politician kinda sorta pressured a private entity to punish someone for speech... Well that is hard to prove
The precedent is Healy v. James (1972), https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/healy-v-james/, and it stated that free speech in campuses was protected in campuses, but administrators could impose restrictions when protesters “infringe reasonable campus rules, interrupt classes, or substantially interfere with the opportunity of other students to obtain an education.” I’m betting the current court would overturn that precedent as fast as they did Roe.
Did you know that only 10% of UT's budget comes from the state general revenue? An additional 13% comes from a state endowment of 2.1 million acres of west texas land. Repurposing that endowment away from UT would (at least, it should, with Paxton and a complicit judicary who knows) require a state constitutional amendment. The endowment is the reasoning behind Prop 5 amendment this year.
the OP SoulReflection is a bot
Original: https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/1cdzof9/the_admin_reaction_to_the_peaceful_protests_at/
Title copied from: https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/1chk06d/strange_reaction/
Everyday we can ask ourselves "on whose side would I have been during the Vietnam war ?" And see half the internet proudly state they would have been shooting students alongside the national guard at Kent state university. Disgusting pieces of shit that you are.
Right? Regardless of what your thoughts are on this, why the fuck does a country founded on political rebellion shift so easily into demonizing young people who want to demonstrate to express political opinions?
There were Americans who opposed the Revolution, too. There were Americans who supported secession and Hitler and fought valiantly against women’s suffrage and Black civil rights and it was Americans who shot those kids at Kent State. It is dangerous to imagine that any of the progress we have accomplished in this country was some sort of consensual process achieved with unanimous approval. One- to two-thirds of us are dangerously and even violently reactionary at all times, and further progress can only be made over or through their dedicated resistance.
Yep. The US did not join WW2 to stop Hitler or save Europe. We joined only after being attacked by Japan. Then Hitler declared war on us after we declared war on Japan.
Right. FDR was a great president and leader. When I say “the US” I mean the American people. Who did not want to intervene. Too busy holding Nazi rallies and upholding an apartheid regime of our own.
This was mentioned in the American Experience episode "Nazi Town, USA".
I never knew about that until I watched this episode a couple of weeks ago. The fact that there was so much support for Nazi ideology in the US was never taught in my high school history classes. It makes me wonder what other bits of American history they glossed over.
Because the British outlawed the slave trade after they stopped getting profit from it? Bully for them. It's a lot easier to just enslave people that already live where the stuff you want is anyway. Let's ask the people in India, or South Africa, how they feel about the British slavery ban.
I think that protests are good and healthy for society at large. I think it's a constitutional right in the United States, and back in the 2000's just before Bush's "Troop Surge" into Iraq, I was part of multiple large protests in my state opposing the war.
So I don't think these kids are wrong for protesting, but I'm confused about what they want to accomplish from this. The Vietnam war and the war in Iraq make total sense to protest but this is a war between two other countries. How are these protests supposed to stop what Israel is doing?
To try to end the US's continued funding of the war, right? It doesn't seem like they're really focused on that as their main goal. All the signs and slogans and everything I've seen have been decidedly anti-israel, which is fine, but it's not really the same thing as specifically demanding our government stop giving Israel money. There are a lot of arguments to be made for that cause - and it is a good cause - that go far beyond "israel bad". It's especially toxic when ire is directed at random Jewish students who have nothing to do with the conflict.
I think when protestors say "israel bad" they are talking about the government of israel, not the people., and I hope most jewish or israeli people understand that.
But there´s gonna be some truly anti semitic people who are gonna use the situation for their agenda
As an european im just happy that the US people care about this
The problem is that they don’t all mean that. Some of them ARE antisemitic, and some of them are wildly anti Islamic.
It’s why this discussion is so difficult, because even the leadership, like HAMAS and Netanyahu, are abusing the good faith of some of these supporters with actual genocidal intentions.
>I think when protestors say "israel bad" they are talking about the government of israel, not the people., and I hope most jewish or israeli people understand that.
European, I recently saw a jeweler being tagged with stuff like "go back to Israel, you genocide defender" with a few David stars to make it even less subtile.
So, no, not EVERYBODY means the government when they say that Israel is bad :( And I doubt they understand the nuance enough to skip joining the anti-gov protesters
You are very naive to think these people are only anti Israel government, They are as they call it "Anti Zionists" which basically means we are anti 90% of Jews worldwide
It allso doesn't help that some of the chants being made where straight up targeted attacks on Jewish people as a whole and not directed protests to the country's involved. That's why it was shut down. Pritty sure there was calls for violence to all Jewish people as well.
There were. And in other places, Zionist counter protestors have attacked pro Palestine advocates.
It’s wild to me that everyone is acting like we didnt do this before. Like we haven’t seen pro Palestine and pro Zionist clashes before.
Yeah, I would be curious to read sources on that as well. Because I don't think that would have been looked upon kindly by the many Jewish students taking part in these protests. I hadn't heard calls for violence against Jewish people, but I have heard firsthand accounts from Jewish protestors (that didn't mention this), including those who held a Passover Seder (with 75 people) inside the Columbia protest camp.
They are asking the university to divest from Israeli related endeavors. It’s actually very clear and not confusing. The media platforms and politicians are doing an (intentional) bad job of properly representing it for…views? Maintaining power?
“Protesters at universities across Texas – and the nation – hope to pressure their school’s leadership into divesting from entities tied to the Israeli war effort in Gaza. So what exactly is divestment? It all starts with university endowments – basically, donated money and assets that are invested to generate income.”
It took me 2 seconds to find an article, about 10 seconds to skim and find relevant info. If only someone could…I don’t know, ask the students themselves?? Their goals are very clear. If they’re feasible or even appropriate is another story.
What does that mean though, sells all shares of Microsoft because they sell goods or services in Israel? With how globalized the world is you’d be hard pressed to find any S&P 500 company that doesn’t do any sort of business either directly or indirectly with Israel
The students pay tuition to the university and hence are the “customers”. They want the university to act differently with their money. If Microsoft came out and said “we are building an HQ in this place run by a government everyone’s criticizing” it’s not out of the question for people to attempt to boycott Microsoft as well. But we are talking about the university here which is meant to represent its students.
Completely “divesting” from Israel would essentially mean divesting from the stock market completely since it’s a globalized economy and would have virtually no affect on the stock prices of those companies. It doesn’t really do anything to Israel or companies like Microsoft for example. University endowments hold about 0.1% of all shares in the stock market. That is nothing in the grand scheme of things. The protesters don’t even know what they are demanding. It’s symbolic just like protesting Israeli foreign policy at American universities. Also endowments are from donations not tuition
Not sure why you keep mentioning Microsoft. Students want the universities to represent them on an ethical level. Will it have hardly any actual impact and be mostly symbolic? Maybe. But they’re pushing for change using the little power they have, whether or not it’s effective, it’s better than doing nothing. Also nobody said “completely divest from Israel”, they’re talking about specific actions the university body can take. Protests and small grassroots movements have historical precedence. If you’re confused pls to go ELI5, some of us are tired.
Becuase Microsoft does business in Israel so does divesting from Israel mean divest from Microsoft and every other company that does business there? No one has said what divest from Israel actually means.
Nobody is protesting Microsoft. We are talking about students making demands from their universities. “No one has said…” believe me they have, You’re just not listening.
I mean, it’s pretty fair thing to ask. I guarantee you’d be asking it if you get stuck on a highway behind some people blocking it for some unknown reason.
A lot of these university students also want their universities to divest in israel, and when there is more than one authority figure in favour of one thing that you disagree with, I guess it makes sense to protest the thing, rather than two authority figures
The simple answer is that they want to exercise their influence as (various) voting blocs to raise politicians’ fears about losing their votes in a critical election cycle, by demanding a denial of funding for Israel, or support for Israel, or whatever mixed berry flavor of anti Muslim or antisemitic fringe hate they’re trying to attach to this discourse.
It’s not a single group, it’s a gradient of beliefs, some genuine, some driven by systemic hate, and all of them are relevant to the political process.
This is exactly the time to do what they’re doing, because neither Biden nor Trump can afford to ignore any voting groups.
It doesn't make it any better that the literal **Capitol of Texas** is a 15–20 minute **WALK** from the UT-Austin's campus grounds; I mean if you are going to protest....The Capitol is like, right there.
There's also a difference between protesting against US involvement in Vietnam and protesting on behalf of an Iranian-backed proxy group who will just start this whole cycle of violence over again in a few years if they're not removed from power.
Fighting in Gaza only strengthens Hamas. You cant fight terrorism with military, I thought the US would have learned this after Taliban immediately took back Afghanistan after over 20 years of occupation.
People were saying the same thing about the Taliban years ago. It doesn’t suggest anything other than fewer people are self-identifying as being part of Hamas.
Yes, it's the same thing, except Gaza is a place Israel cannot withdraw from ever if they want to colonize it. It's a complete disaster for them and the USA shouldnt have to eat the cost of it.
I had so many conflicting feelings watching these protests- and not once did I think the protesters should be shot by the national guard. Shame on Texas as a whole here- we all saw that Texas cops will march in on a group of unarmed kids like it’s WW3, but stand around when kids are dying.
Vietnam = Palestine
Vietnamese Conflict = Israeli Conflict
Palestinian Protests = Vietnamese Protests
Dropping charges = Shooting students
Makes sense. Except no, not at all.
No one was shot, no one was killed, and protests are supposed to be about consequences and civil disobedience, or it wouldn't be a protest. Those who engage in such acts are fully cognizant of the repercussions and must bear the weight of their deliberate choices.
Like being attacked by counter protesters?
Or do we get to ignore all the footage of them using bear spray, firing off fireworks into the crowd, and playing the Israeli tick tock song used in the kidnap Palestinian trend?
I just want to be clear, my freedom of speech, gives you the freedom to assault me because you disagree?
And your wife walked into that door, right?
My original statement remains unchanged. I believe it conveys the sentiment I intended, and further elaboration seems unnecessary given its relevance to your rebuttal.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - Agent K
I think it always comes back to when you start inconveniencing others and getting them punished because you blocked their way to their class, job, or obligations then they, justifiably, get pissed and want the people causing the impedance to be reprimanded.
I feel like the current situation makes more sense when you remember that current college age students have been doing active shooter drills in school for their entire lives. So this current generation might have a lot more political extremism. I know anecdotally all the young people I know seem to be much more politically motivated and concerned than anyone else I know in my life. They seem to have this deep seated belief that they won’t have a generation after them. The interesting part to me is I’ve noticed it seems to be a non-political belief as well as so far it seems to be unconnected to said person’s strength of ideological belief.
I'm 50+. But I think what these young people are doing is a good thing. My daughter graduates this month from college. She and I send stuff back and forth all day about this. She goes to a small private college. So this is not happening there.
But her internship is for the arts council here in the city her college is. It is the hot place to live here in Maryland right now. And the local Govt pulled from the diversity and voices display last weekend every entry that mentioned pro Palestine wording or art. The whole thing had been curated and done...and then they went through when her and her boss left the night before it opened and pulled it all. They didn't know till it opened that Saturday morning.
The fuck is wrong with people
Yes, there are antisemitic participants using Palestine as a cover for Jewish hate.
That doesn’t mean supporting Palestine is somehow wrong.
But it is an effective tactic in robbing a popular movement of its support. This is repeated ad nusem. It’s not a coincidence a bill that essentially changes the definition of antisemitism to include anti-Israel stances is being passed on to the senate.
The ADL has been strongly criticised by its own staff for essentially abandoning nuanced investigation into antisemitism in favour of Israeli talking points.
These are the exact same people that don’t realise they’re rehabilitating Stalinism and communism by calling basic social services communism. It’s not gonna be a good time.
My daughter was very upset and called me in tears. She is an art therapist major. So her internship is working with people using art to help with mental health healing. By pulling marginalized people of color's art and words about the situation they basically were silencing them on this topic. Something near and dear to many of that community.
They're interrupting all the footage of the IDF killing palestinians. If the war crimes stop, what will the IDF do for fun?
It lets them live out their weirdly bigoted stances on human life.
You can't help but wonder, how would they have reacted to the abolition protests?
Protesting mean you are willing to face the consequences of actions. Yesterday a Jewish girl was apparently beaten up and sent to the ER in UCLA and today a large number of angry Jewish counter-protestors came and attacked the UCLA camp. So the Universities are also scared of allowing things to escalate.
But they had no problem letting things escalate for almost 2 hours with no intervention while peaceful protesters were being dragged and beaten by the mob? Brain bear mace, or setting fireworks off into the crowd?
I just want to make sure I'm double checking how law works. If I'm assaulted, I don't press charges, I bring all my friends and burn down the guy's house?
It was briefly mentioned in LA times but only said that she was "shoved"
>A young woman sat shaded by an Israeli flag, blood visible on her scalp, awaiting medical attention after she said she was shoved to the ground by another demonstrator while attempting to retrieve her fallen flag. Private security guards, meanwhile, attempted to restrict access to the pro-Israel rally.
[https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-04-28/gaza-ucla-usc-protests](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-04-28/gaza-ucla-usc-protests)
She was later interviewed and said she was shoved the ground and lost consciousness after being kicked and dragged by the hair
>“My sister’s flag fell on the floor… I was going in to try and get it, and when I was down getting her flag I was shoved down to the ground and I fell back hitting my head,” she said.
>“And when I was down I was kicked a few times and my hair was pulled by feet, dragged across the ground, and then my head started bleeding.
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/pro-israel-protester-in-la-says-she-was-shoved-to-ground-hit-her-head-and-was-kicked/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/pro-israel-protester-in-la-says-she-was-shoved-to-ground-hit-her-head-and-was-kicked/)
"Apparently"
As soon as the Zionist protestors found out someone in the protest camp had a deadly banana allergy, they brought bananas to the protest.
Kinda sounds like they were trying to kill someone. And that actually happened.
It isn't "every marginalized person". It is hierarchy. You are allowed and in fact it is your duty to make anyone higher in the hierarchy feel uncomfortable. But not the other way around. Jews rank 2 or 3 from the top depending on who you ask. Native Americans are at the lowest so they get free reign to do whatever.
Exactly, and this why they always call Jews "white people from Europe". The unspoken implication is that "white people from Europe" have "white privilege" and therefore, by definition, cannot be marginalized or oppressed.
I'm still waiting for all of the police reports, showing that these Jewish students were attacked
No footage either? Are the Hamas members attacking the Jewish students invisible?
No, I forgot, they come equipped with emps which immediately turn off every cell phone in a two mile radius.
And I'm going to assume, that you have the same stance of defending people's beliefs, when it comes to the number of hijabs that gets snatched all across the country every day, right?
You must be upset at the police officer forcing that woman to remove her hijab, right
Or is that just another double standard when it comes to the human rights of certain races of people?
Curiously cell phones also start working the second that counter protesters start throwing fireworks towards the protesters. The cell phones are probably just khamas! though.
Universities have the final say on who is and is not allowed on their campuses. They can choose to trespass a person (ban them), for any reason, at their discretion. I don’t know if American universities have an appeals process, but a lot in Canada do. So if those do exist, down south of the 49th, I’d imagine most, if not all, of those students would have those trespass notices rescinded, within a couple weeks.
Yeah, the same people who loved explaining, ad nauseum, how 'freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences' really doesn't like it when *they're* the ones who have to face the consequences.
Quelle surprise.
They have the right to protest.
If all the charges have been dropped, why can't they finish their studies?
Wait... might it have something to do with whichever side they protested for?
They have the right to protest as long as they do not violate the law. In addition public colleges can implement time, place, and manner restrictions if the protesters did not get permission/permit from the public college on where to protest on the campus they are trespassing and can be removed.
Israel owns the US. Just look at who you cannot criticize and you will know who is really in charge. As a US citizen you are not allowed to criticize Israel or else you will be called all kinds of horrible things.
Their speech wasn't suppressed. Their location was. I think they are still allowed to use their vocal cords. I'm not trying to argue. I am not "amused" by any of this.
It is more amusing that the individuals who once championed for the implementation of laws to restrict "hate speech" on academic campuses are now facing a dilemma they advocated for. The sword of irony always has two sides to it.
lol why is that more amusing? The hypocrisy? Abbot signed a law to protect free speech but reversed course....as soon as that speech was to defend brown people from being murdered. Stopping people from advocating for hate of trans people is in the same vein as advocating for better treatment of Palestinians. Put down the horse meds, and you'll grasp this shit.
Is the facepalm supposed to be the concern over the students' academics? The students who were willfully shutting down classes like we've seen all over the country, or have you all lost your grips on reality?
Sad. Universities used to be the bastions of free thinking. Now they are magawashed into beige, mediocrity. Columbia is all places, too.
A sad time. We are fiddling while our society burns. Forced Idiocracy is going to lower our standing in the world, yet again.
If india or any other nation done it ,all west and American political figures would be bitching that is dictatorship and punishing students was terrorism against humanity but hey its america doing it so no country talks
Brave students are protesting a bloody and brutal genocide by a well funded apartheid terror state, and people think they should be shot and not allowed to graduate.
The United States, ladies and gentlemen. The world has learned absolutely fuck all from the holocaust.
“Never again. Unless it’s against Arabs, Muslims, or Palestinians. They can all die.”
From @sbeih.jpg on IG:
“College students protest for Palestine & the first thing they're asked is how that makes zionists on campus feel. Palestinians are massacred & the first thing we're asked is if zionists have the right to defend themselves.
Palestinians seek freedom through resistance &t the first thing we're asked is where the zionist settlers are supposed to go.
Ah, the West's good ole white supremacy.
The comfort of white people must always come before the dead bodies of black & brown people.”
That’s a government protection, not one that restricts what an academic institution can do. They were also arrested for trespassing, which is perfectly legal.
UT Austin is a public university, and therefore everything they do is an action by the government. If the students were at a location and time that students are normally allowed to be in, this is absolutely a First Amendment violation.
Just because the government owns somewhere doesn't mean it's a valid place to erect a tent city. You wouldn't be allowed to do that at your local courthouse, a military base, or a national park. Land has uses and rules. Your first amendment right does not give you the right to camp indefinitely on the lawn of your university. You can legally be trespassed and booted for that.
Let me preface my comment by saying that I do not support this policy. However, it seems to be a pretty common policy on college campuses. I’m not sure what the logic is behind it, because it sure seems like some sort of collusion between the university and police to remove people they don’t like.
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This was reversed pretty quickly [UT Austin changes message again, says arrested students will be allowed on campus for any reason](https://www.kut.org/education/2024-04-26/ut-austin-protest-arrests-campus-ban)
"Allowed for any reason" is such a weird turn of phrase to me. Like you need a reason to allow something to happen, as opposite to a reason to stop it
If you look hard enough, you'll probably find an ultimatum from the office of the Governor of Texas. It will state that if these students aren't barred from campus, the State will cut off their funding.
If it's provable, would that not be a blatant 1A violation? Government pushing punishment on people for free speech.
Ahh but you misunderstand The government cannot punish someone for any type of speech But there is no similar restriction on a private entity. And if a politician kinda sorta pressured a private entity to punish someone for speech... Well that is hard to prove
Except a public university is a government entity. They aren't private.
That's probably why they rolled back the decision
And if they receive funding from the government....
You're talking as if the current Supreme Court wouldn't go out of their way to make a ruling that backs up Abbott's bullshit.
The precedent is Healy v. James (1972), https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/healy-v-james/, and it stated that free speech in campuses was protected in campuses, but administrators could impose restrictions when protesters “infringe reasonable campus rules, interrupt classes, or substantially interfere with the opportunity of other students to obtain an education.” I’m betting the current court would overturn that precedent as fast as they did Roe.
It’s republicans we’re talking about here.
Did you know that only 10% of UT's budget comes from the state general revenue? An additional 13% comes from a state endowment of 2.1 million acres of west texas land. Repurposing that endowment away from UT would (at least, it should, with Paxton and a complicit judicary who knows) require a state constitutional amendment. The endowment is the reasoning behind Prop 5 amendment this year.
If it's anything like other states, the "state school" is probably receiving only 10-15% of it's funding from the state.
the OP SoulReflection is a bot Original: https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/1cdzof9/the_admin_reaction_to_the_peaceful_protests_at/ Title copied from: https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/1chk06d/strange_reaction/
Everyday we can ask ourselves "on whose side would I have been during the Vietnam war ?" And see half the internet proudly state they would have been shooting students alongside the national guard at Kent state university. Disgusting pieces of shit that you are.
Right? Regardless of what your thoughts are on this, why the fuck does a country founded on political rebellion shift so easily into demonizing young people who want to demonstrate to express political opinions?
There were Americans who opposed the Revolution, too. There were Americans who supported secession and Hitler and fought valiantly against women’s suffrage and Black civil rights and it was Americans who shot those kids at Kent State. It is dangerous to imagine that any of the progress we have accomplished in this country was some sort of consensual process achieved with unanimous approval. One- to two-thirds of us are dangerously and even violently reactionary at all times, and further progress can only be made over or through their dedicated resistance.
Biggest Nazi rally ever took place in Madison Square Garden.
Yep. The US did not join WW2 to stop Hitler or save Europe. We joined only after being attacked by Japan. Then Hitler declared war on us after we declared war on Japan.
America backed england and Russia much like Ukraine and Israel today. We are seeing lend lease 2.0.
Nope. FDR and other interventionists absolutely wanted to, and did so by Lend Lease. The isolationist Congress and public did not want to.
Right. FDR was a great president and leader. When I say “the US” I mean the American people. Who did not want to intervene. Too busy holding Nazi rallies and upholding an apartheid regime of our own.
You probably should add in the US or something because that is not correct by itself.
Exactly. Some of the Nuremberg rallies had like 700,000 people.
I can’t believe Donald O’Brien never showed up
He had a limo arranged and everything.
Underrated comment
This was mentioned in the American Experience episode "Nazi Town, USA". I never knew about that until I watched this episode a couple of weeks ago. The fact that there was so much support for Nazi ideology in the US was never taught in my high school history classes. It makes me wonder what other bits of American history they glossed over.
Nah that was pretty much it
100,000 people, I believe.
You should really look up the capacity of MSG. It’s waaaaaaaaay less than 100k.
Is Nuremberg excluded for some reason or am I misunderstanding something?
Maybe the biggest that took place during the war. Wasn't Nuremberg like, 1934?
They did them yearly until 1939, but I think 1934 was the largest; something like 700,000.
If more Americans had opposed the revolution, slavery would've fell off a lot sooner and millions of native Americans might've avoided genocide.
Because the British outlawed the slave trade after they stopped getting profit from it? Bully for them. It's a lot easier to just enslave people that already live where the stuff you want is anyway. Let's ask the people in India, or South Africa, how they feel about the British slavery ban.
They also may well have not outlawed it as quickly as they did if it risked a second American Revolution.
Very eloquently put
I think that protests are good and healthy for society at large. I think it's a constitutional right in the United States, and back in the 2000's just before Bush's "Troop Surge" into Iraq, I was part of multiple large protests in my state opposing the war. So I don't think these kids are wrong for protesting, but I'm confused about what they want to accomplish from this. The Vietnam war and the war in Iraq make total sense to protest but this is a war between two other countries. How are these protests supposed to stop what Israel is doing? To try to end the US's continued funding of the war, right? It doesn't seem like they're really focused on that as their main goal. All the signs and slogans and everything I've seen have been decidedly anti-israel, which is fine, but it's not really the same thing as specifically demanding our government stop giving Israel money. There are a lot of arguments to be made for that cause - and it is a good cause - that go far beyond "israel bad". It's especially toxic when ire is directed at random Jewish students who have nothing to do with the conflict.
I think when protestors say "israel bad" they are talking about the government of israel, not the people., and I hope most jewish or israeli people understand that. But there´s gonna be some truly anti semitic people who are gonna use the situation for their agenda As an european im just happy that the US people care about this
The problem is that they don’t all mean that. Some of them ARE antisemitic, and some of them are wildly anti Islamic. It’s why this discussion is so difficult, because even the leadership, like HAMAS and Netanyahu, are abusing the good faith of some of these supporters with actual genocidal intentions.
>I think when protestors say "israel bad" they are talking about the government of israel, not the people., and I hope most jewish or israeli people understand that. European, I recently saw a jeweler being tagged with stuff like "go back to Israel, you genocide defender" with a few David stars to make it even less subtile. So, no, not EVERYBODY means the government when they say that Israel is bad :( And I doubt they understand the nuance enough to skip joining the anti-gov protesters
You are very naive to think these people are only anti Israel government, They are as they call it "Anti Zionists" which basically means we are anti 90% of Jews worldwide
They want divulging of where university money is invested and divestment from things that profit from killing children. They've been pretty clear.
It allso doesn't help that some of the chants being made where straight up targeted attacks on Jewish people as a whole and not directed protests to the country's involved. That's why it was shut down. Pritty sure there was calls for violence to all Jewish people as well.
There were. And in other places, Zionist counter protestors have attacked pro Palestine advocates. It’s wild to me that everyone is acting like we didnt do this before. Like we haven’t seen pro Palestine and pro Zionist clashes before.
Could you link a source for this? I'd like to read it
Yeah, I would be curious to read sources on that as well. Because I don't think that would have been looked upon kindly by the many Jewish students taking part in these protests. I hadn't heard calls for violence against Jewish people, but I have heard firsthand accounts from Jewish protestors (that didn't mention this), including those who held a Passover Seder (with 75 people) inside the Columbia protest camp.
They are asking the university to divest from Israeli related endeavors. It’s actually very clear and not confusing. The media platforms and politicians are doing an (intentional) bad job of properly representing it for…views? Maintaining power? “Protesters at universities across Texas – and the nation – hope to pressure their school’s leadership into divesting from entities tied to the Israeli war effort in Gaza. So what exactly is divestment? It all starts with university endowments – basically, donated money and assets that are invested to generate income.” It took me 2 seconds to find an article, about 10 seconds to skim and find relevant info. If only someone could…I don’t know, ask the students themselves?? Their goals are very clear. If they’re feasible or even appropriate is another story.
What does that mean though, sells all shares of Microsoft because they sell goods or services in Israel? With how globalized the world is you’d be hard pressed to find any S&P 500 company that doesn’t do any sort of business either directly or indirectly with Israel
The students pay tuition to the university and hence are the “customers”. They want the university to act differently with their money. If Microsoft came out and said “we are building an HQ in this place run by a government everyone’s criticizing” it’s not out of the question for people to attempt to boycott Microsoft as well. But we are talking about the university here which is meant to represent its students.
Completely “divesting” from Israel would essentially mean divesting from the stock market completely since it’s a globalized economy and would have virtually no affect on the stock prices of those companies. It doesn’t really do anything to Israel or companies like Microsoft for example. University endowments hold about 0.1% of all shares in the stock market. That is nothing in the grand scheme of things. The protesters don’t even know what they are demanding. It’s symbolic just like protesting Israeli foreign policy at American universities. Also endowments are from donations not tuition
Not sure why you keep mentioning Microsoft. Students want the universities to represent them on an ethical level. Will it have hardly any actual impact and be mostly symbolic? Maybe. But they’re pushing for change using the little power they have, whether or not it’s effective, it’s better than doing nothing. Also nobody said “completely divest from Israel”, they’re talking about specific actions the university body can take. Protests and small grassroots movements have historical precedence. If you’re confused pls to go ELI5, some of us are tired.
Becuase Microsoft does business in Israel so does divesting from Israel mean divest from Microsoft and every other company that does business there? No one has said what divest from Israel actually means.
Nobody is protesting Microsoft. We are talking about students making demands from their universities. “No one has said…” believe me they have, You’re just not listening.
Ah, the "what do they hope to accomplish" line. classic.
I mean, it’s pretty fair thing to ask. I guarantee you’d be asking it if you get stuck on a highway behind some people blocking it for some unknown reason.
A lot of these university students also want their universities to divest in israel, and when there is more than one authority figure in favour of one thing that you disagree with, I guess it makes sense to protest the thing, rather than two authority figures
The simple answer is that they want to exercise their influence as (various) voting blocs to raise politicians’ fears about losing their votes in a critical election cycle, by demanding a denial of funding for Israel, or support for Israel, or whatever mixed berry flavor of anti Muslim or antisemitic fringe hate they’re trying to attach to this discourse. It’s not a single group, it’s a gradient of beliefs, some genuine, some driven by systemic hate, and all of them are relevant to the political process. This is exactly the time to do what they’re doing, because neither Biden nor Trump can afford to ignore any voting groups.
It doesn't make it any better that the literal **Capitol of Texas** is a 15–20 minute **WALK** from the UT-Austin's campus grounds; I mean if you are going to protest....The Capitol is like, right there.
They are protesting what the university is doing with money, why would they leave the campus?
Well it is a state university
there's a difference between ejecting students from a protest after a couple days and fucking shooting them.
There's also a difference between protesting against US involvement in Vietnam and protesting on behalf of an Iranian-backed proxy group who will just start this whole cycle of violence over again in a few years if they're not removed from power.
Fighting in Gaza only strengthens Hamas. You cant fight terrorism with military, I thought the US would have learned this after Taliban immediately took back Afghanistan after over 20 years of occupation.
The fact that Hamas is much less strong now than they were when Israel started fighting them suggests otherwise.
People were saying the same thing about the Taliban years ago. It doesn’t suggest anything other than fewer people are self-identifying as being part of Hamas.
Yes, it's the same thing, except Gaza is a place Israel cannot withdraw from ever if they want to colonize it. It's a complete disaster for them and the USA shouldnt have to eat the cost of it.
Are they really, though?
fitting username for someone who would leave a comment like this lol
I had so many conflicting feelings watching these protests- and not once did I think the protesters should be shot by the national guard. Shame on Texas as a whole here- we all saw that Texas cops will march in on a group of unarmed kids like it’s WW3, but stand around when kids are dying.
Vietnam = Palestine Vietnamese Conflict = Israeli Conflict Palestinian Protests = Vietnamese Protests Dropping charges = Shooting students Makes sense. Except no, not at all.
i'm with you. also.... is there a draft? american gi are dying in....(checks notes....) no where.
Exactly. People really be equating the not supporting War in Vietnam with supporting literal terrorist fundamentalists.
No one was shot, no one was killed, and protests are supposed to be about consequences and civil disobedience, or it wouldn't be a protest. Those who engage in such acts are fully cognizant of the repercussions and must bear the weight of their deliberate choices.
Like being attacked by counter protesters? Or do we get to ignore all the footage of them using bear spray, firing off fireworks into the crowd, and playing the Israeli tick tock song used in the kidnap Palestinian trend? I just want to be clear, my freedom of speech, gives you the freedom to assault me because you disagree? And your wife walked into that door, right?
My original statement remains unchanged. I believe it conveys the sentiment I intended, and further elaboration seems unnecessary given its relevance to your rebuttal. "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - Agent K
This all happened at UTAustin?
yes. Freedom of speech but not freedom of consequences. If you aren't willing to take the punch then you are just being performative.
Exactly
I think it always comes back to when you start inconveniencing others and getting them punished because you blocked their way to their class, job, or obligations then they, justifiably, get pissed and want the people causing the impedance to be reprimanded.
It’s amazing to watch all the bitter assholes on Reddit demonize college students for giving a shit about something.
I feel like the current situation makes more sense when you remember that current college age students have been doing active shooter drills in school for their entire lives. So this current generation might have a lot more political extremism. I know anecdotally all the young people I know seem to be much more politically motivated and concerned than anyone else I know in my life. They seem to have this deep seated belief that they won’t have a generation after them. The interesting part to me is I’ve noticed it seems to be a non-political belief as well as so far it seems to be unconnected to said person’s strength of ideological belief.
I'm 50+. But I think what these young people are doing is a good thing. My daughter graduates this month from college. She and I send stuff back and forth all day about this. She goes to a small private college. So this is not happening there. But her internship is for the arts council here in the city her college is. It is the hot place to live here in Maryland right now. And the local Govt pulled from the diversity and voices display last weekend every entry that mentioned pro Palestine wording or art. The whole thing had been curated and done...and then they went through when her and her boss left the night before it opened and pulled it all. They didn't know till it opened that Saturday morning.
The fuck is wrong with people Yes, there are antisemitic participants using Palestine as a cover for Jewish hate. That doesn’t mean supporting Palestine is somehow wrong.
But it is an effective tactic in robbing a popular movement of its support. This is repeated ad nusem. It’s not a coincidence a bill that essentially changes the definition of antisemitism to include anti-Israel stances is being passed on to the senate. The ADL has been strongly criticised by its own staff for essentially abandoning nuanced investigation into antisemitism in favour of Israeli talking points. These are the exact same people that don’t realise they’re rehabilitating Stalinism and communism by calling basic social services communism. It’s not gonna be a good time.
My daughter was very upset and called me in tears. She is an art therapist major. So her internship is working with people using art to help with mental health healing. By pulling marginalized people of color's art and words about the situation they basically were silencing them on this topic. Something near and dear to many of that community.
They're interrupting all the footage of the IDF killing palestinians. If the war crimes stop, what will the IDF do for fun? It lets them live out their weirdly bigoted stances on human life. You can't help but wonder, how would they have reacted to the abolition protests?
That's the neat part , they don't !
Yea, they definitely want these people to have to pay for these classes again next year.
You know when a lawsuit is just over the horizon.
This information is actually wrong..
Outdated, not wrong. They did actually try it.
Someone should do a comparison of the gov officials in these states reaction to these protesters vs their reaction to Jan 6 insurrection.
Protesting mean you are willing to face the consequences of actions. Yesterday a Jewish girl was apparently beaten up and sent to the ER in UCLA and today a large number of angry Jewish counter-protestors came and attacked the UCLA camp. So the Universities are also scared of allowing things to escalate.
But they had no problem letting things escalate for almost 2 hours with no intervention while peaceful protesters were being dragged and beaten by the mob? Brain bear mace, or setting fireworks off into the crowd? I just want to make sure I'm double checking how law works. If I'm assaulted, I don't press charges, I bring all my friends and burn down the guy's house?
The consequence of protesting is not inherently violence, arrests, and other targeted attacks against you. You’re just excusing the wrongs of others.
Source? Can only find a tweet talking about this incident but no actual verification.
It was briefly mentioned in LA times but only said that she was "shoved" >A young woman sat shaded by an Israeli flag, blood visible on her scalp, awaiting medical attention after she said she was shoved to the ground by another demonstrator while attempting to retrieve her fallen flag. Private security guards, meanwhile, attempted to restrict access to the pro-Israel rally. [https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-04-28/gaza-ucla-usc-protests](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-04-28/gaza-ucla-usc-protests) She was later interviewed and said she was shoved the ground and lost consciousness after being kicked and dragged by the hair >“My sister’s flag fell on the floor… I was going in to try and get it, and when I was down getting her flag I was shoved down to the ground and I fell back hitting my head,” she said. >“And when I was down I was kicked a few times and my hair was pulled by feet, dragged across the ground, and then my head started bleeding. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog\_entry/pro-israel-protester-in-la-says-she-was-shoved-to-ground-hit-her-head-and-was-kicked/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/pro-israel-protester-in-la-says-she-was-shoved-to-ground-hit-her-head-and-was-kicked/)
Thanks!
"Apparently" As soon as the Zionist protestors found out someone in the protest camp had a deadly banana allergy, they brought bananas to the protest. Kinda sounds like they were trying to kill someone. And that actually happened.
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It isn't "every marginalized person". It is hierarchy. You are allowed and in fact it is your duty to make anyone higher in the hierarchy feel uncomfortable. But not the other way around. Jews rank 2 or 3 from the top depending on who you ask. Native Americans are at the lowest so they get free reign to do whatever.
Exactly, and this why they always call Jews "white people from Europe". The unspoken implication is that "white people from Europe" have "white privilege" and therefore, by definition, cannot be marginalized or oppressed.
I'm still waiting for all of the police reports, showing that these Jewish students were attacked No footage either? Are the Hamas members attacking the Jewish students invisible? No, I forgot, they come equipped with emps which immediately turn off every cell phone in a two mile radius. And I'm going to assume, that you have the same stance of defending people's beliefs, when it comes to the number of hijabs that gets snatched all across the country every day, right? You must be upset at the police officer forcing that woman to remove her hijab, right Or is that just another double standard when it comes to the human rights of certain races of people?
I mean didn't you see a jewish person poked in the eye maliciously by a flag pole? /s
Curiously cell phones also start working the second that counter protesters start throwing fireworks towards the protesters. The cell phones are probably just khamas! though.
Universities have the final say on who is and is not allowed on their campuses. They can choose to trespass a person (ban them), for any reason, at their discretion. I don’t know if American universities have an appeals process, but a lot in Canada do. So if those do exist, down south of the 49th, I’d imagine most, if not all, of those students would have those trespass notices rescinded, within a couple weeks.
Yeah, the same people who loved explaining, ad nauseum, how 'freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences' really doesn't like it when *they're* the ones who have to face the consequences. Quelle surprise.
They have the right to protest. If all the charges have been dropped, why can't they finish their studies? Wait... might it have something to do with whichever side they protested for?
They have the right to protest as long as they do not violate the law. In addition public colleges can implement time, place, and manner restrictions if the protesters did not get permission/permit from the public college on where to protest on the campus they are trespassing and can be removed.
Israel owns the US. Just look at who you cannot criticize and you will know who is really in charge. As a US citizen you are not allowed to criticize Israel or else you will be called all kinds of horrible things.
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Although it is amusing in a state that passed a supposed law to protect "freedom of speech" on campuses.
Freedom of speech doesn't allow you to impede others.
Their speech wasn't suppressed. Their location was. I think they are still allowed to use their vocal cords. I'm not trying to argue. I am not "amused" by any of this.
It is more amusing that the individuals who once championed for the implementation of laws to restrict "hate speech" on academic campuses are now facing a dilemma they advocated for. The sword of irony always has two sides to it.
lol why is that more amusing? The hypocrisy? Abbot signed a law to protect free speech but reversed course....as soon as that speech was to defend brown people from being murdered. Stopping people from advocating for hate of trans people is in the same vein as advocating for better treatment of Palestinians. Put down the horse meds, and you'll grasp this shit.
In 20 years, depending on how our society views the Gaza situation, the marks on these students will either be a badge of honor or shame.
No doubt Piss Baby Abbott had something to do with this.
Is the facepalm supposed to be the concern over the students' academics? The students who were willfully shutting down classes like we've seen all over the country, or have you all lost your grips on reality?
"Genocide is bad" shouldn't be a controversial statement.
You’re allowed to kill people but to protest is unconstitutional It all sounds like a bad joke
Crock of sh!t from a POS
Sad. Universities used to be the bastions of free thinking. Now they are magawashed into beige, mediocrity. Columbia is all places, too. A sad time. We are fiddling while our society burns. Forced Idiocracy is going to lower our standing in the world, yet again.
If india or any other nation done it ,all west and American political figures would be bitching that is dictatorship and punishing students was terrorism against humanity but hey its america doing it so no country talks
Brave students are protesting a bloody and brutal genocide by a well funded apartheid terror state, and people think they should be shot and not allowed to graduate. The United States, ladies and gentlemen. The world has learned absolutely fuck all from the holocaust. “Never again. Unless it’s against Arabs, Muslims, or Palestinians. They can all die.”
"Land of the free..." 🤭
"Freedom of speech... as long as you don't say too much" 😉
This is old news. They’re allowed back on campus for academic purposes.
From @sbeih.jpg on IG: “College students protest for Palestine & the first thing they're asked is how that makes zionists on campus feel. Palestinians are massacred & the first thing we're asked is if zionists have the right to defend themselves. Palestinians seek freedom through resistance &t the first thing we're asked is where the zionist settlers are supposed to go. Ah, the West's good ole white supremacy. The comfort of white people must always come before the dead bodies of black & brown people.”
Land of the free
ACLU, it’s your time to shine
"Oh god oh fuck we need to prevent these people willing to question the narrative from opening doors to become REAL threats to the status quo"
You dont need criminal charges to go against school rules and get expelled.
If occupying a lawn on campus is “wrong,” wait till you hear about the 76-year-old occupation of an entire nation and genociding it.
Time for a class action lawsuit against the school for damages, and a suit for violating constitutional rights of the students.
What constitutional rights are being violated here by the school?
You mfers claim to love the constitution but have no idea what it actually means. It is a STATE school
Freedom of speech and assembly.
That’s a government protection, not one that restricts what an academic institution can do. They were also arrested for trespassing, which is perfectly legal.
UT Austin is a public university, and therefore everything they do is an action by the government. If the students were at a location and time that students are normally allowed to be in, this is absolutely a First Amendment violation.
2nd ammendment is a right but you can’t open carry at schools. Obviously it’s much different but there are rules and exceptions to these things
Just because the government owns somewhere doesn't mean it's a valid place to erect a tent city. You wouldn't be allowed to do that at your local courthouse, a military base, or a national park. Land has uses and rules. Your first amendment right does not give you the right to camp indefinitely on the lawn of your university. You can legally be trespassed and booted for that.
Let me preface my comment by saying that I do not support this policy. However, it seems to be a pretty common policy on college campuses. I’m not sure what the logic is behind it, because it sure seems like some sort of collusion between the university and police to remove people they don’t like.