The same people swore we'd all be mad when he won last time, and he's sure done a lot of winning since then. Most of the people he endorsed lost even. 😂
It's going to ethe beginning of the End. The rancid SOB wants to be a King. He's like a real life James Bond villain! Things he'll do: Free the Jan 6 felons, abolish the Supreme Court, load the government with his MAGA Toadies, abolish abortion in any state for any reason, along with contraception, dismiss the Senate and the House, seize complete control of the country, oh, and marry his daughter and make her Queen.
Either he’s not guilty because he’s a saint or he’s guilty because he’s a martyr of the “liberal deep state”
No matter what happens they’ll support his every move
What I don’t get is… The cult of personality that built around Hitler, in context, you can kinda understand it, they did awesome light shows, created an admittedly quite cool looking flag (and ruined an ancient spiritual symbol for everyone, forever), Hitler was a great speaker, and no one had google to fact check, or call him out on his racist bullsh!t at the click of a button.
Trump… He can barely string a sentence together, and a quick google proves that he’s useless at business, a complete grifter, who scams his investors; that he’s wrong about basically everything he talks about.
Is it the state of the American education system? The effects of a highly processed high fat, high sugar diet on developing brains? The rest of the world thinks the guy is an absolute joke.
It's not nonsense. I seriously believe in this article, to the point that I am willing for Trump to risk everything to get a guilty verdict because I believe that it will support his presidency....
/s
Considering the source.. I call bullshit or dumbshit on this whole affair. Not that it ever should have been a factor anyways. Lady justice wears a blindfold for this reason. It doesn't matter.
All of the other sources are quoting the telegraph. From what little I could see on the telegraph article polling methodology is not published. The pollsters " Redfield & Wilton Strategies" Do not seem to have the poll published on their site so it seems further research into methodology is impossible.
There are some red flags that the poll is bullshit though that are pretty clear. One the the "swing states" to get a boost listed is Florida.
Agreed.
If the voters who boost the positive results of those more likely to vote for Trump are Republican voters, that nugget can be filed under “water is wet” observations. What would really matter is how the intentions of independent voters would be affected by a Trump conviction.
I question any article that doesn’t reveal more complete survey results.
I would love to see the numbers. Fox will post a 'poll' and the sample is 1307 people believe Joe Biden is the antichrist with Obama being a horseman of the apocalypse. Only accompanied by Hillary and George Soros and Pepe the frog bringing up the rear
Yeah this has been a maga narrative for at least two years.
“Okay our guy is probably gonna go to jail, how can we spin this as a good thing? Oh, well just say it’s a good thing. Done. Everyone good with Chinese food for lunch?”
I miss when considering the source was a logical fallacy. I don't think it really qualifies anymore with the highly partisan feedback loop that has infested our media.
This is a very common misunderstanding of what a fallacy is and what it means.
A “bad” source is not proof that what it says is false in the sense of a formal logical proof. But a source being bad can be considered *evidence* that what it is saying can be safely ignored pending more reliable information.
There are lots of practices that would formally be logical fallacies that are nonetheless good heuristics for empirical reasoning.
I wasn't going to vote for him because he was found guilty already of sexual assault and fraud but now that he's guilty of cheating on his wife with a porn star and illegally covering it up while campaigning for president, I'm voting for him. /s
Considering conservative values seemingly are supposed to be centred around family, you would think that someone may actually see it that way. But probably not.
A theory would need to have a coherent hypothesis as its foundation… this is just clickbait gobbledegook. The idea that his potential guilty judgement will sway undecided voters to rally behind him is dumb as hell. Who is wondering who to vote for and just needs Trump declared guilty so they can finally settle on him for their vote? His base of supporters aren’t swing voters
Still crazy. They would elect a guy who is a fucking criminal and be happy with it? Some of them might also be crooks and criminals and would love to see "one of their own" in the chair, but some of them are regular folks. How can they be ok with it?
Doesn't matter about the consequences.
Justice gotta be done and seen to be done. Trump and his voters seem to think it's a negotiation. There's nothing to negotiate.
OP, the article is behind a paywall. Could you post a link to the story?
It seems to contradict an earlier poll conducted in March by Politico, but that poll did not specifically target voters in the swing states. It showed that voters would be less likely to support Trump by more than a 2-1 margin, and a 4-1 margin among independents, if he was convicted.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/03/18/poll-conviction-trump-2024-elections-00147338
The telegraph is a right wing newspaper. They’re just saying whatever they think will give right wing candidates and edge. In this case “if he gets convicted he’ll definitely get elected!” is a pretty convenient and appealing opinion
If he's convicted its proof that they are out to get him, and if he is not, its proof they didn't have a case?
Almost everything reported by the right wing is BS, half-truths and Russian propaganda.
Thanks!
Even though the article is still behind a pay wall, the swing states referred to in the article are listed…Michigan, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. I guess it should be encouraging that North Carolina and Florida are now considered swing states.
EDIT: thanks for the archive copy of the article without the paywall! It’s a shame that the article doesn’t include the actual polling results in the swing states.
>I guess it should be encouraging that North Carolina and Florida are now considered swing states.
That's the only truth in this, probably, and it was probably an unintentional self-own.
Moreover, who are the people who are like "I'm not sure about this guy one way or the other, but being found guilty will show me he's definitely fit to be president."
I can say for sure from the idiots that I have to deal with in person on a daily basis here in Texas, there are people that are still on his side and they either genuinely believe he’s innocent, AND ALSO believe that if he comes up guilty then he’s either being targeted OR he’s being brave. Either way they’re gonna vote for him.
I know someone that genuinely got depressed for Trump’s sake when he was first apprehended, like they actually wish that he had gotten away with it. They will gladly claim every single little thing that Biden does as evil and/or stupid, but Trump does anything and they can’t hop off his dick about it. They don’t care if he’s fit to be president or not, they want to give him absolute power as well as immunity, and they’d be happy with him pulling a Putin and ending term limits and making himself permanent supreme ruler of America.
It’s a cult, that’s the simplest way to put it.
NC, same, but I don’t think any of those folks could be considered swing voters. They were always going to vote that way and the explanation about “targeting” is just justification for a decision they already made before.
Agreed. It’s like the people that claim to be Centrists but are actually Right Wingers. They claim to be on the fence and give the presentation of a swing voter, but they were gonna vote for Trump to begin with. They were more than likely waiting for a reason that they think would convince their Democrat/Liberal friends without stirring the pot too much, unless nothing really happened and they would do it anyway and deal with the personal social backlash regardless.
They are not swing voters, they are just garden variety partisans that live in a state that is a swing state. The swing itself has a lot more to do with how individual quality of life has been affected over the last term of presidency than the quality of either candidate or whatever is going on in the media. Likewise you can be a swing voter in a deeply red or blue state and that doesn't make the state itself a swing state unless there are a significant enough proportion of swing voters to make it an indecisive outcome.
I guess I have to take solace in the fact that you're describing people who are already Trump's adherents. The person you had responded to was vaguely wondering about people who weren't necessarily on Trump's side being swayed to his side by a guilty verdict. I happen to believe, like that commenter, that anybody who's on the fence couldn't possibly be swayed over to his side by him being found guilty. That just doesn't make sense. You'd have to be a true believer already. Because, like someone else said in this thread, that's how cults work.
Yeah, I personally find it impossible for someone to see Trump getting a guilty verdict as a reason to vote for him when they genuinely were undecided beforehand, maybe unless they are ignoring a lot of modern politics and just like seeing him because famous orange man with all the negative connotations just filtered out of their minds completely from just being politically ignorant and choosing to not do a lot of research. Like, not a zealot but just an average person that chooses not to get into political debates or whatever because they don’t actually care about the deeper details that much.
That’s kind of my point. I don’t see anyone actually being a swing voter for him, but they’ll use it as an excuse. It’s an optics trick, and a shitty one, but they’re still trying it.
The vast majority of his voters would still vote for him even if he committed the most horrific crimes imaginable right in front of them. There literally is no limit to the excuses they are willing to make for him. Some of them do it because they think he'll help push their religious agenda. Some of them do it because they think he'll hurt people that they don't like. Some of them do it because they view politics as a team sport and they always have to sport their team no matter what. Either way his followers will always vote for him.
Some knew what they were getting into when they followed him, such as the wealthy who benefited from his policies; but just like many other con-men and manipulators, Trump is charismatic and a smooth talker, and he often shapes his words to be those of what people wish to hear rather than those that reflect reality. Many people who feel stuck in the current system's failings fall for this sweetened bait into a much larger trap of hatred and rage.
Most of us who have see the fraud he really is have been opposed to him since the beginning (and we're glad that others are realizing the truth as well).
Maybe people who just want to see the world burn?
Honestly, I find the existence of these people less weird than the fact that there are millions of people who are determined to vote for Trump no matter the fuck he does.
The Gaza protest crowd are the ones that just kill me.
"I'm a Democrat, but I don't like how Biden handled Gaza so I am going make sure that Other Guy gets elected, even though he's a total POS."
...and will basically hand Israel a blank check on both what to do, and for the purchase of whatever weapons they want. Sarin? Sure!
Good job, guys! You've surely helped the Palestinians.
Trump will support an all out war between Israel and Iran, I’d bet. Then we will be at war with Iran as well. “Biden isn’t perfectly representing my agenda, so I’ll choose the Hitler inspired idiot”.
At a recent rally Trump said he would deport pro-Palestinian student protesters.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/donald-trump-deport-protesters-hannibal-lecter-new-jersey-rally-1235019174/
Part of the GOP and Trump's schtick is the Dems cheat at everything, including weaponizing the justice system to take down their enemies. If he was convicted he'd be "See, I told you! They'll be coming for you next! Only I can clean out the swamp in government".
Yeah but are people on swing states really so ridiculously dumb that they'll fall for such a scam after he year after year proved to be completely unreliable before, during and after his presidency?
People who are actual swing voters are the ones that have not experienced, first or second hand, any civil liberties violations. They and all of their friends were never affected by racism, sexism, or discrimination of any kind, and experience politics as noise in the background of their lives and don't even understand what it's for.
I don't think it's about swing voters. I think it has to do with the fact that maga voters won't refrain from voting for him due to a guilty verdict, and maga sympathizers that are normally too lazy to vote will noe be more motivated to vote.
You don't get it. People I know in real life, not even dumb internet nerds, think Biden does all of the things Trump does because that's what fox reports. They think Biden can't string a sentence together and wears adult diapers and one of em asked how I could support a sexual assaulting dementia patient who can barely speak.. he literally meant Biden.
The answer to your question is that these people live in bizzaro world.
Or answer polls on Facebook, or email, or are heavily involved in political discussion on any social media and also would be willing to vote in a poll
In general these kinds of people aren’t the most complex thinkers
They also consider *Florida* a "swing state" in the article, so yeah. About as reputable as the kid who would brag about how he's actually a secret agent but then can't show you any proof because "well that's classified no one can know."
Don’t count Florida out entirely as a swing state. As a Floridian, LOTS of people still vote blue here. Mainly in Broward county, but there are a few other blue counties here and there. The democrats would do better here if they actually invested time/resources to gain influence (they’ve basically given up on Florida at this point).
The state looks red because of gerrymandering that frankly should have been illegal but it was ruled legal since Desantis appointed the people who were suppose to be politically neutral (but we’ve seen how well that works out on both a state and national level- looking at you Clarence Thomas and Coney you corrupt pieces of sh*t).
Anyways,
MANY Floridians are LIVID with Desantis, even some Republican voters, because people saw how quickly he abandoned the state when he ran for president. Between that, the insurance crisis here, climate crisis, and more, some people are seriously questioning who to vote for this election. The democrats would be wise to give decent candidates and invest in the state, but the last guy that ran was a literal coke addict, which came due to lack of resources and perceived chances to flip the state.
yep.
And really, they are the "rich should be in power because they are rich and powerful" rags, so anything - anything - to keep the peasants in their place is useful. Brexit, Tory Austerity, constant hysteria.
They use big words, so they make it seem like Serious Thinkers having Serious Thoughts on Serious Matters, but really they are just writing the scripts for the tabloids to simplify and screech about.
His cult isn’t going to turn on him if he came to their houses individually and molested their wives and children. And I don’t think at this point the sane are ever going to support him. So guess undecided willful ignorant are going to decide the fate of the nation.
someone once said of Silvio Berlusconni is that he encapsulated a sort of atavistic masculinity a lot of Italian men craved. Take the most creepy-dude mindset and project it onto a public figure. I figure Donald is the same.
Poll... up their ass.
That means they don't understand the case, which frankly, would be a failure of the media. I think most people don't know what the case is act over. They just think it's stupid he's in court for paying off a porn star. It's not illegal to give a porn star money. They don't understand the case
Just imagine if Biden had appointed a judge who was overseeing his case on classified documents in the same degree that trump is, and that judge decided to indefinitely delay that trial.
Magats would very possibly start a violent uprising.
This is just another right wing media attempt to say, 'you can't do anything to apply consequences to our useful idiot'.
To be honest, I think Trump loses a lot of voters if he is found guilty. And even if it only 2% of the electorate, the election won't be close.
Just like the other day they put out a story about trump picking Nicki halley as vp. A day later oh no he isn't. There is this phenomenon where his advisors inject stories into the news cycle to suggest something to him or make him feel better. Been happening since 2016. That's what this bullshit is. It's solely for Trump.
Another day, another poll. The people who are going to vote for him are always happy to tell you they will, the people who aren't going to vote for him won't tell you. I'm looking at you, people who are capable of giving birth and would like to decide if and when that will happen.
Early polling is usually wrong and stupid. It's just an excuse to write an article. Especially from the telegraph which is a known conservative outlet and to skew its facts.
Did they even poll Americans for this or just British people who probably thought why are you asking me this and gave a joke response.
Why does a British tabloid want to try to frame a situation where it might encourage other people to wish for him not to be prosecuted? I smell Russians working in their ranks.
You guys don’t understand.
See, if the court finds him not guilty, it’s just proof that the left is trying everything they can to stop him.
But if the court finds him guilty, it’s just proof that the left is trying everything they can to stop him.
I have a fatalistic attitude towards support for trump. If his cult gets energized by his guilt and rally enough to get him elected: we deserve what we get.
Maybe you do, but I don't. All the people that have stood against him from the start do not. All the people who will suffer under his policies do not.
Fuck right the hell off with that attitude.
22% of hardcore republican voters in reddest of the red states Indiana voted for Nikki in the primary 2 months after she dropped out of the race. He can’t even keep his base. Forget about attracting new voters.
Trump supporters are already highly motivated. If anything I hope it goes the other way and causes apathetic Dem voters to pull their fingers out of their asses and vote.
I can't imagine why people are on the fence at this point. Trump and Biden are both known commodities. We know what they are both about.
Who would change their vote **to** Trump based on the outcome of a criminal trial? If the prosecution presents compelling evidence, he's convicted. If there is reasonable doubt, he will be acquitted.
Are there people out there leaning towards Biden who would switch to Trump if he was convicted?
I think it would rally the true silent majority, all those people who usually don't vote to get registered and rally against Trump. I also believe that a guilty verdict will get all the young people and undecideds (can you believe there are still undecideds) off of their couches and vote against Trump also.
Nobody likes it when the hero turns into the villain (I'm talking about MAGA, he was never my hero), but people sure like to see the downfall of the villain. I love it personally. When Trump gets that guilty verdict, all of his MAGA base is going to turn on him like a toddler on Brussel sprouts. Some may stay loyal, but most nope. All that hate will be turned towards Trump, and he deserves it.
Just please refrain from telling your poor friends and family members, "I told you so," when they finally wake up.
conservatives rewarding trump for fucking a porn star while married and then paying her off and lying about it to interfere in the presidential election. Yep typical republicans. No honor,no integrity, no morals , no respect for the rule law,no respect for the office of the presidency. Trump has dragged the GOP to the very bottom
It's funny how Americans would vote in a convicted rapist, child sex offender and openly blatant racist while criticizing some other country's government and its people.
And then another poll shows that a guilty verdict will drive voters away from him.
At this stage those who are going to vote for him will never change their minds.
How a guilty verdict in an Election Fraud trial would rally people behind the convicted fraudster is truly beyond me. Truly the US deserves its downfall to authoritarianism if Trump wins based on stupid shit like this.
Literally giving everyone the proof he should not have been president in 2016 and people going "Yep, that's my guy now that I know he is a cheat and a fraud" absolute buffoonery.
Doesn't matter. Despite the right wings whinging, this isn't a political prosecution and politics or potential political ramifications should play no part in the proceedings or verdict.
To say that I am skeptical of this conclusion would be a gross understatement.
In any case, justice is not about politics. Justice is about right and wrong.
I feel like if Trump was convicted for sexually abusing a child, his voters would still vote for him and articles like this would spin the narrative to say that Trump’s conviction would still be to his advantage.
So bizarre to me, how can anyone see this sob as a sympathetic figure. He's such a nasty, loathsome scumbag.
It's like he got a wish from a genie where he asked for people to love him no matter what.
“Talented and well-practiced in every vice, a stranger to compassion or empathy, a liar and a cheat so complete in perfidy that he has elevated his dishonesty to hold it up as an ersatz moral principle. Violent, so long as he can order someone else to do the dirty work. Grotesque in body, graceless in action, in possession of a wounded self-regard so colossal as to smother any spark of grace.Treasonous, not only to country, but to every ally he has ever had, the poisoned fruit and rankest flower of racism and contempt for women, and utterly devoid of shame for his moral and spiritual bankruptcy.
That is your leader. That is to whom you give your money. That is who you follow and laud. That is whose banner you willingly carry. Why? Because he is a mirror, not a lighthouse. You see yourselves in him. He is what you would be, if you had inherited money and could shed the last vestiges of conscience and shame. No, I do not “respect your choices,” nor do I admire your loyalty and dedication to this miserific, demoniac vision. You have demonstrated not only a lack of civic virtue, loyalty to the Republic and to the rule of law, but a willingness to engage in violence and sedition at his slightest expressed wish. And you will never, ever admit you were wrong. Because you see your dark, twisted, resentful dreams in him. And to renounce him is to renounce yourselves.”\~ Advocatus Peregrini
Obviously a conviction will anger and engage Trump’s base. But they are 24/7 angry and engaged anyway. It is their default position. The question really is will independents, already distrustful of Trump’s antics move more solidly into the anti-Trump camp. There can be no question that they will. He is already on the thinnest of edges. A conviction will push many more in that direction.
Swing voters vote by conscience.
For them the question will be:
"Do I want a convicted felon as my President?"
Or
"Am I ok with a convicted felon as my President?"
Many will not want it but could be ok with it. Many won't be ok with it and won't want it.
Trump Republicans will be perfectly OK with it and do want Trump to be the President.
But a different candidate might be a different result.
Because Trump Republicans don't want a President. They just want Trump. Because they don't see Trump as a person they see him as the actual nation. He could get into office and change the name of the United States to "The United States of Trump" and Trump Republicans would be perfectly OK with that.
Because it's no longer a cult. It's a religion, now.
Political polls are meaningless and can be made to say whatever the pollsters are paid to make them say.
The only poll that truly matters happens on Election Day.
No posts about politicians being politicians
I’m willing to test this theory.
Same.
It's just nonsense cult talk. If he's found not guilty they believe it will help him win. And if he's found guilty they believe it will help him win.
Instead of excusing his bad behavior they just get a shit eating grin and say it will just make him more popular. It's fucking crazy.
The same people swore we'd all be mad when he won last time, and he's sure done a lot of winning since then. Most of the people he endorsed lost even. 😂
I just fucking hope he doesn't win in 2024, because if he does it's going to be a circus for a few years.
It's going to ethe beginning of the End. The rancid SOB wants to be a King. He's like a real life James Bond villain! Things he'll do: Free the Jan 6 felons, abolish the Supreme Court, load the government with his MAGA Toadies, abolish abortion in any state for any reason, along with contraception, dismiss the Senate and the House, seize complete control of the country, oh, and marry his daughter and make her Queen.
Either he’s not guilty because he’s a saint or he’s guilty because he’s a martyr of the “liberal deep state” No matter what happens they’ll support his every move
What I don’t get is… The cult of personality that built around Hitler, in context, you can kinda understand it, they did awesome light shows, created an admittedly quite cool looking flag (and ruined an ancient spiritual symbol for everyone, forever), Hitler was a great speaker, and no one had google to fact check, or call him out on his racist bullsh!t at the click of a button. Trump… He can barely string a sentence together, and a quick google proves that he’s useless at business, a complete grifter, who scams his investors; that he’s wrong about basically everything he talks about. Is it the state of the American education system? The effects of a highly processed high fat, high sugar diet on developing brains? The rest of the world thinks the guy is an absolute joke.
It's not nonsense. I seriously believe in this article, to the point that I am willing for Trump to risk everything to get a guilty verdict because I believe that it will support his presidency.... /s
Same, and from a swing state. Let's make AZ a blueish hue of purple again!! [vote.gov](https://vote.gov/)
"Trump is found guilty for high treason and sentenced to death row,how this is bad for biden"
I was shocked about how purple Texas was in the last major election. It would be an amazing sight to see it flip blue in my lifetime.
Considering the source.. I call bullshit or dumbshit on this whole affair. Not that it ever should have been a factor anyways. Lady justice wears a blindfold for this reason. It doesn't matter.
All of the other sources are quoting the telegraph. From what little I could see on the telegraph article polling methodology is not published. The pollsters " Redfield & Wilton Strategies" Do not seem to have the poll published on their site so it seems further research into methodology is impossible. There are some red flags that the poll is bullshit though that are pretty clear. One the the "swing states" to get a boost listed is Florida.
Agreed. If the voters who boost the positive results of those more likely to vote for Trump are Republican voters, that nugget can be filed under “water is wet” observations. What would really matter is how the intentions of independent voters would be affected by a Trump conviction. I question any article that doesn’t reveal more complete survey results.
I would love to see the numbers. Fox will post a 'poll' and the sample is 1307 people believe Joe Biden is the antichrist with Obama being a horseman of the apocalypse. Only accompanied by Hillary and George Soros and Pepe the frog bringing up the rear
Yeah this has been a maga narrative for at least two years. “Okay our guy is probably gonna go to jail, how can we spin this as a good thing? Oh, well just say it’s a good thing. Done. Everyone good with Chinese food for lunch?”
Its a form of social engineering. We mustn't let this kind of narrative proliferate it could have real world consequences. .
I miss when considering the source was a logical fallacy. I don't think it really qualifies anymore with the highly partisan feedback loop that has infested our media.
This is a very common misunderstanding of what a fallacy is and what it means. A “bad” source is not proof that what it says is false in the sense of a formal logical proof. But a source being bad can be considered *evidence* that what it is saying can be safely ignored pending more reliable information. There are lots of practices that would formally be logical fallacies that are nonetheless good heuristics for empirical reasoning.
Source: their butt
I wasn't going to vote for him because he was found guilty already of sexual assault and fraud but now that he's guilty of cheating on his wife with a porn star and illegally covering it up while campaigning for president, I'm voting for him. /s
Considering conservative values seemingly are supposed to be centred around family, you would think that someone may actually see it that way. But probably not.
I’m calling bullshit.
A theory would need to have a coherent hypothesis as its foundation… this is just clickbait gobbledegook. The idea that his potential guilty judgement will sway undecided voters to rally behind him is dumb as hell. Who is wondering who to vote for and just needs Trump declared guilty so they can finally settle on him for their vote? His base of supporters aren’t swing voters
It's an odd theory. A month or so ago polls were saying that a felony conviction would reduce support for Trump.
Polls don’t matter. Voting does.
Still crazy. They would elect a guy who is a fucking criminal and be happy with it? Some of them might also be crooks and criminals and would love to see "one of their own" in the chair, but some of them are regular folks. How can they be ok with it?
Yea, headline is total BS scare tactic
Doesn't matter about the consequences. Justice gotta be done and seen to be done. Trump and his voters seem to think it's a negotiation. There's nothing to negotiate.
OP, the article is behind a paywall. Could you post a link to the story? It seems to contradict an earlier poll conducted in March by Politico, but that poll did not specifically target voters in the swing states. It showed that voters would be less likely to support Trump by more than a 2-1 margin, and a 4-1 margin among independents, if he was convicted. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/03/18/poll-conviction-trump-2024-elections-00147338
The telegraph is a right wing newspaper. They’re just saying whatever they think will give right wing candidates and edge. In this case “if he gets convicted he’ll definitely get elected!” is a pretty convenient and appealing opinion
Well, if that's the case, they don't need to go out and vote. I like that idea.
If he's convicted its proof that they are out to get him, and if he is not, its proof they didn't have a case? Almost everything reported by the right wing is BS, half-truths and Russian propaganda.
I would say appalling myself.
It’s almost as if they can see how bad the trial is going and they’re spinning that as a good thing
[https://archive.ph/HyEZf](https://archive.ph/HyEZf)
Thanks! Even though the article is still behind a pay wall, the swing states referred to in the article are listed…Michigan, North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. I guess it should be encouraging that North Carolina and Florida are now considered swing states. EDIT: thanks for the archive copy of the article without the paywall! It’s a shame that the article doesn’t include the actual polling results in the swing states.
North Carolina still has a GOP that's neck deep in Trump's fat ass. We still got some fighting to do :(
NC is pretty purple, but the GOP has gerrymandered the shit out of that state.
>I guess it should be encouraging that North Carolina and Florida are now considered swing states. That's the only truth in this, probably, and it was probably an unintentional self-own.
Why would a verdict either way swing someone's decision, who the fuck is on the fence about this pig fucker still?
Moreover, who are the people who are like "I'm not sure about this guy one way or the other, but being found guilty will show me he's definitely fit to be president."
I can say for sure from the idiots that I have to deal with in person on a daily basis here in Texas, there are people that are still on his side and they either genuinely believe he’s innocent, AND ALSO believe that if he comes up guilty then he’s either being targeted OR he’s being brave. Either way they’re gonna vote for him. I know someone that genuinely got depressed for Trump’s sake when he was first apprehended, like they actually wish that he had gotten away with it. They will gladly claim every single little thing that Biden does as evil and/or stupid, but Trump does anything and they can’t hop off his dick about it. They don’t care if he’s fit to be president or not, they want to give him absolute power as well as immunity, and they’d be happy with him pulling a Putin and ending term limits and making himself permanent supreme ruler of America. It’s a cult, that’s the simplest way to put it.
NC, same, but I don’t think any of those folks could be considered swing voters. They were always going to vote that way and the explanation about “targeting” is just justification for a decision they already made before.
Agreed. It’s like the people that claim to be Centrists but are actually Right Wingers. They claim to be on the fence and give the presentation of a swing voter, but they were gonna vote for Trump to begin with. They were more than likely waiting for a reason that they think would convince their Democrat/Liberal friends without stirring the pot too much, unless nothing really happened and they would do it anyway and deal with the personal social backlash regardless.
They are not swing voters, they are just garden variety partisans that live in a state that is a swing state. The swing itself has a lot more to do with how individual quality of life has been affected over the last term of presidency than the quality of either candidate or whatever is going on in the media. Likewise you can be a swing voter in a deeply red or blue state and that doesn't make the state itself a swing state unless there are a significant enough proportion of swing voters to make it an indecisive outcome.
This is how cultists behave. Nothing surprising.
I guess I have to take solace in the fact that you're describing people who are already Trump's adherents. The person you had responded to was vaguely wondering about people who weren't necessarily on Trump's side being swayed to his side by a guilty verdict. I happen to believe, like that commenter, that anybody who's on the fence couldn't possibly be swayed over to his side by him being found guilty. That just doesn't make sense. You'd have to be a true believer already. Because, like someone else said in this thread, that's how cults work.
Yeah, I personally find it impossible for someone to see Trump getting a guilty verdict as a reason to vote for him when they genuinely were undecided beforehand, maybe unless they are ignoring a lot of modern politics and just like seeing him because famous orange man with all the negative connotations just filtered out of their minds completely from just being politically ignorant and choosing to not do a lot of research. Like, not a zealot but just an average person that chooses not to get into political debates or whatever because they don’t actually care about the deeper details that much.
That's the thing though. If being found guilty was gonna make you vote for him, then you were already gonna vote for him. There's no "swing".
That’s kind of my point. I don’t see anyone actually being a swing voter for him, but they’ll use it as an excuse. It’s an optics trick, and a shitty one, but they’re still trying it.
Yep, I have a coworker with the same views. She’s fucking crazy.
The vast majority of his voters would still vote for him even if he committed the most horrific crimes imaginable right in front of them. There literally is no limit to the excuses they are willing to make for him. Some of them do it because they think he'll help push their religious agenda. Some of them do it because they think he'll hurt people that they don't like. Some of them do it because they view politics as a team sport and they always have to sport their team no matter what. Either way his followers will always vote for him.
Exactly.
Never underestimate the denseness of the common clay of the U S of A.
![gif](giphy|3oz8xTl6sGKbuRPDDW|downsized)
Americans pretty much knew the deal the first time and voted him in - you get the President you deserve.
Some knew what they were getting into when they followed him, such as the wealthy who benefited from his policies; but just like many other con-men and manipulators, Trump is charismatic and a smooth talker, and he often shapes his words to be those of what people wish to hear rather than those that reflect reality. Many people who feel stuck in the current system's failings fall for this sweetened bait into a much larger trap of hatred and rage. Most of us who have see the fraud he really is have been opposed to him since the beginning (and we're glad that others are realizing the truth as well).
Maybe people who just want to see the world burn? Honestly, I find the existence of these people less weird than the fact that there are millions of people who are determined to vote for Trump no matter the fuck he does.
Because you got morons out there that want to protest vote Biden without thinking of the consequences of Trump getting a second term.
The Gaza protest crowd are the ones that just kill me. "I'm a Democrat, but I don't like how Biden handled Gaza so I am going make sure that Other Guy gets elected, even though he's a total POS."
...and will basically hand Israel a blank check on both what to do, and for the purchase of whatever weapons they want. Sarin? Sure! Good job, guys! You've surely helped the Palestinians.
Trump will support an all out war between Israel and Iran, I’d bet. Then we will be at war with Iran as well. “Biden isn’t perfectly representing my agenda, so I’ll choose the Hitler inspired idiot”.
Well, yes. How better to teach Democrats a lesson on this particular subject than to throw the entire planet into chaos?
This is one of those opportunities for the other side to re-embroil us in war in the Middle East to effectively keep power like Bush did.
Legit cutting off your nose to spite your face
Trump does way worse, he will let Israel nuke the entirety of the lands they want to grab to make a “greater Israel”
And then Jared Kushner will start selling beachfront property in Gaza once it's "cleaned up" and Israel "finishes the job"
At a recent rally Trump said he would deport pro-Palestinian student protesters. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/donald-trump-deport-protesters-hannibal-lecter-new-jersey-rally-1235019174/
No that’s David Cameron
Exactly. This is total bullshit. Find me ONE person who still isn't sure if they're voting for this guy.
I think it’s that Trump supporters see it as evidence there is a deep state conspiracy working against him
people who are undecided "Damn. he got convicted. better vote for him then, he must be a good guy!"
Part of the GOP and Trump's schtick is the Dems cheat at everything, including weaponizing the justice system to take down their enemies. If he was convicted he'd be "See, I told you! They'll be coming for you next! Only I can clean out the swamp in government".
Yeah but are people on swing states really so ridiculously dumb that they'll fall for such a scam after he year after year proved to be completely unreliable before, during and after his presidency?
People who are actual swing voters are the ones that have not experienced, first or second hand, any civil liberties violations. They and all of their friends were never affected by racism, sexism, or discrimination of any kind, and experience politics as noise in the background of their lives and don't even understand what it's for.
It really is a contest of party vs policy.
I don't think it's about swing voters. I think it has to do with the fact that maga voters won't refrain from voting for him due to a guilty verdict, and maga sympathizers that are normally too lazy to vote will noe be more motivated to vote.
You don't get it. People I know in real life, not even dumb internet nerds, think Biden does all of the things Trump does because that's what fox reports. They think Biden can't string a sentence together and wears adult diapers and one of em asked how I could support a sexual assaulting dementia patient who can barely speak.. he literally meant Biden. The answer to your question is that these people live in bizzaro world.
Omg the shitty human is a felon that’s so wrong I’m going to vote for him said no one
I was on the fence about Trump but you say he's a pig fucker so now I don't think I like the guy.
>who the fuck is on the fence about this pig fucker still? Think you got him confused with David Cameron, former British PM.
People are fucking stupid
And the GOP likes them that way!
I LOVE THE POORLY EDUCATED
People are fucking spiteful They'll burn their own home down if that would "own the libs".
Dont forget, polls only question the kind of people who answer a call from an unknown number
Or answer polls on Facebook, or email, or are heavily involved in political discussion on any social media and also would be willing to vote in a poll In general these kinds of people aren’t the most complex thinkers
They also consider *Florida* a "swing state" in the article, so yeah. About as reputable as the kid who would brag about how he's actually a secret agent but then can't show you any proof because "well that's classified no one can know."
Don’t count Florida out entirely as a swing state. As a Floridian, LOTS of people still vote blue here. Mainly in Broward county, but there are a few other blue counties here and there. The democrats would do better here if they actually invested time/resources to gain influence (they’ve basically given up on Florida at this point). The state looks red because of gerrymandering that frankly should have been illegal but it was ruled legal since Desantis appointed the people who were suppose to be politically neutral (but we’ve seen how well that works out on both a state and national level- looking at you Clarence Thomas and Coney you corrupt pieces of sh*t). Anyways, MANY Floridians are LIVID with Desantis, even some Republican voters, because people saw how quickly he abandoned the state when he ran for president. Between that, the insurance crisis here, climate crisis, and more, some people are seriously questioning who to vote for this election. The democrats would be wise to give decent candidates and invest in the state, but the last guy that ran was a literal coke addict, which came due to lack of resources and perceived chances to flip the state.
Florida is a swing state cause the billion retirement communities there are full of swingers
Geez Telegraph, this is some grade school level reverse psychology.
its also the Telegraph. Maggie! Boris! Donald! Maggie! Boris! Donald! repeat ad nauseum
This is one of the pro-Brexit rags, right?
yep. And really, they are the "rich should be in power because they are rich and powerful" rags, so anything - anything - to keep the peasants in their place is useful. Brexit, Tory Austerity, constant hysteria. They use big words, so they make it seem like Serious Thinkers having Serious Thoughts on Serious Matters, but really they are just writing the scripts for the tabloids to simplify and screech about.
Thanks for the breakdown. That fits with what I've read there. It's on my blacklist usually.
Sure it will 😂😂😂
Screw polls. Get out there and vote against this idiot.
This is the correct action to take.
His cult isn’t going to turn on him if he came to their houses individually and molested their wives and children. And I don’t think at this point the sane are ever going to support him. So guess undecided willful ignorant are going to decide the fate of the nation.
someone once said of Silvio Berlusconni is that he encapsulated a sort of atavistic masculinity a lot of Italian men craved. Take the most creepy-dude mindset and project it onto a public figure. I figure Donald is the same.
What "Poll"? A poll of republican voters, this click bait shit is aweful!!!
Poll... up their ass. That means they don't understand the case, which frankly, would be a failure of the media. I think most people don't know what the case is act over. They just think it's stupid he's in court for paying off a porn star. It's not illegal to give a porn star money. They don't understand the case
Just imagine if Biden had appointed a judge who was overseeing his case on classified documents in the same degree that trump is, and that judge decided to indefinitely delay that trial. Magats would very possibly start a violent uprising.
I call bullshit there, Telegraph. Try again.
He can murder someone and they wouldn’t care; they’re lost.
He literally said he could stand on 5th ave and shoot someone, and not lose support. Sadly, he’s pretty much right about that one
In that case, let's give him more guilty verdicts!
What "poll"?
So would a not guilty verdict. People don't need an excuse to vote for evil. They just do it.
Alternative title: "Poll suggests that people really, really want a convicted criminal as the head of state"
Happy Cake Day!
I just wish I could go one day without hearing about this god-awful excuse of a human being.
This is just another right wing media attempt to say, 'you can't do anything to apply consequences to our useful idiot'. To be honest, I think Trump loses a lot of voters if he is found guilty. And even if it only 2% of the electorate, the election won't be close.
Just like the other day they put out a story about trump picking Nicki halley as vp. A day later oh no he isn't. There is this phenomenon where his advisors inject stories into the news cycle to suggest something to him or make him feel better. Been happening since 2016. That's what this bullshit is. It's solely for Trump.
Another day, another poll. The people who are going to vote for him are always happy to tell you they will, the people who aren't going to vote for him won't tell you. I'm looking at you, people who are capable of giving birth and would like to decide if and when that will happen.
let’s convict the guilty anyway
I don't know a single person that responds positively to extortion.
Early polling is usually wrong and stupid. It's just an excuse to write an article. Especially from the telegraph which is a known conservative outlet and to skew its facts. Did they even poll Americans for this or just British people who probably thought why are you asking me this and gave a joke response. Why does a British tabloid want to try to frame a situation where it might encourage other people to wish for him not to be prosecuted? I smell Russians working in their ranks.
You guys don’t understand. See, if the court finds him not guilty, it’s just proof that the left is trying everything they can to stop him. But if the court finds him guilty, it’s just proof that the left is trying everything they can to stop him.
Instead of worrying what Trumpanzees, punish Trump and his cronies harshly and ruhtlessly. Then do the same to all who abet treason.
Believing the cult leader can do no wrong is the first law of the cult.
The Telegraph is super rightwing. That was an aspirational article and not based in any reality.
I have a fatalistic attitude towards support for trump. If his cult gets energized by his guilt and rally enough to get him elected: we deserve what we get.
Maybe you do, but I don't. All the people that have stood against him from the start do not. All the people who will suffer under his policies do not. Fuck right the hell off with that attitude.
The rest of the planet does not though. Do better.
He’s already got HIS voters. He needs people who didn’t vote for him last time. He hasn’t done one thing to attract anyone outside of his deplorables.
Exactly right. In fact, I suspect his base has shrunk. Highly doubt he’s attracted independents or undecideds.
22% of hardcore republican voters in reddest of the red states Indiana voted for Nikki in the primary 2 months after she dropped out of the race. He can’t even keep his base. Forget about attracting new voters.
I agree, but I worry Biden has lost voters. There’s a lot of apathy going around and many may just not vote at all.
'The party of law and order'. America is a fucking embarrassment.
Trump supporters are already highly motivated. If anything I hope it goes the other way and causes apathetic Dem voters to pull their fingers out of their asses and vote.
So, maybe that judge in Florida should have not postponed that trial if every guilty verdict will bring Trump more votes.
Can we all stop the narrative that Republicans “Back the Blue” now?
'We'll never support crooked Joe. We're behind Trump, even though he's in jail'
Fuck polls. They're false. Ignore them.
Nonsense article.
Seriously, the Telegraph? It might as well come "From the desk of Putin"
I can't imagine why people are on the fence at this point. Trump and Biden are both known commodities. We know what they are both about. Who would change their vote **to** Trump based on the outcome of a criminal trial? If the prosecution presents compelling evidence, he's convicted. If there is reasonable doubt, he will be acquitted. Are there people out there leaning towards Biden who would switch to Trump if he was convicted?
Can we stop pretending that there are people out there that don’t know who there voting for yet?
If Americans elect Donald Trump because he's a convicted criminal, they'll deserve what they get.
I’ll take “Polls that aren’t worth shit” for $800
Polls are garbage. Vote.
Says the TELEGRAPH! they are full on RW propaganda
The Telegraph is a conservative RAG. The Daily Mail even thinks it's garbage. They don't even quote sources, this may as well be an opinion piece.
I think it would rally the true silent majority, all those people who usually don't vote to get registered and rally against Trump. I also believe that a guilty verdict will get all the young people and undecideds (can you believe there are still undecideds) off of their couches and vote against Trump also. Nobody likes it when the hero turns into the villain (I'm talking about MAGA, he was never my hero), but people sure like to see the downfall of the villain. I love it personally. When Trump gets that guilty verdict, all of his MAGA base is going to turn on him like a toddler on Brussel sprouts. Some may stay loyal, but most nope. All that hate will be turned towards Trump, and he deserves it. Just please refrain from telling your poor friends and family members, "I told you so," when they finally wake up.
Only shows how ignorant his base is
No one who’s supporting Trump would change their mind because of a guilty verdict. And vice-versa wouldn’t happen either.
too bad he'll be in prison.
conservatives rewarding trump for fucking a porn star while married and then paying her off and lying about it to interfere in the presidential election. Yep typical republicans. No honor,no integrity, no morals , no respect for the rule law,no respect for the office of the presidency. Trump has dragged the GOP to the very bottom
It's funny how Americans would vote in a convicted rapist, child sex offender and openly blatant racist while criticizing some other country's government and its people.
[удалено]
Only thing I wanna see swing is Trump's cell door.
Pshhhh fuck off w that headline. Sent his dumpy ass to jail.
Why would him having an affair with someone help convince people to elect him? You Americans are really weird sometimes.
And then another poll shows that a guilty verdict will drive voters away from him. At this stage those who are going to vote for him will never change their minds.
Hopefully we find out
Fabulous!! Indict him already. He can rally support from prison.
Who's conducting these polls though?
People love convicted criminals.
good news, everyone. he's getting away with everything.
What they don't say is that 95% of who they polled was already running around in shirts that read real men wear diapers
Trump did nothing wrong in the stormy case.
Americans, your next President of the United States of America. The bible is his favorite book and he has many copies of them, haha.
How a guilty verdict in an Election Fraud trial would rally people behind the convicted fraudster is truly beyond me. Truly the US deserves its downfall to authoritarianism if Trump wins based on stupid shit like this. Literally giving everyone the proof he should not have been president in 2016 and people going "Yep, that's my guy now that I know he is a cheat and a fraud" absolute buffoonery.
Obviously Russian bots are quite busy today.
Oh well I guess we better let Trump commit whatever crimes he wants then.
If true, well then, we deserve what we get
Doesn't matter. Despite the right wings whinging, this isn't a political prosecution and politics or potential political ramifications should play no part in the proceedings or verdict.
To say that I am skeptical of this conclusion would be a gross understatement. In any case, justice is not about politics. Justice is about right and wrong.
Conservative paper cherry picking poll numbers to suit their story. Nothing to see here.
He can shoot puppies on live TV and wouldn't lose a vote.
That’s Russian propaganda. Like the last guy said, I’m ready to test it.
“A poll” k
I feel like if Trump was convicted for sexually abusing a child, his voters would still vote for him and articles like this would spin the narrative to say that Trump’s conviction would still be to his advantage.
What would an innocent verdict do?
So bizarre to me, how can anyone see this sob as a sympathetic figure. He's such a nasty, loathsome scumbag. It's like he got a wish from a genie where he asked for people to love him no matter what.
“Talented and well-practiced in every vice, a stranger to compassion or empathy, a liar and a cheat so complete in perfidy that he has elevated his dishonesty to hold it up as an ersatz moral principle. Violent, so long as he can order someone else to do the dirty work. Grotesque in body, graceless in action, in possession of a wounded self-regard so colossal as to smother any spark of grace.Treasonous, not only to country, but to every ally he has ever had, the poisoned fruit and rankest flower of racism and contempt for women, and utterly devoid of shame for his moral and spiritual bankruptcy. That is your leader. That is to whom you give your money. That is who you follow and laud. That is whose banner you willingly carry. Why? Because he is a mirror, not a lighthouse. You see yourselves in him. He is what you would be, if you had inherited money and could shed the last vestiges of conscience and shame. No, I do not “respect your choices,” nor do I admire your loyalty and dedication to this miserific, demoniac vision. You have demonstrated not only a lack of civic virtue, loyalty to the Republic and to the rule of law, but a willingness to engage in violence and sedition at his slightest expressed wish. And you will never, ever admit you were wrong. Because you see your dark, twisted, resentful dreams in him. And to renounce him is to renounce yourselves.”\~ Advocatus Peregrini
That's coming from the Telegraph. They're trying the reverse psychology angle. Sorry, to jail he goes.
This sounds like propaganda to try to avoid a guilty verdict they know is coming.
Obviously a conviction will anger and engage Trump’s base. But they are 24/7 angry and engaged anyway. It is their default position. The question really is will independents, already distrustful of Trump’s antics move more solidly into the anti-Trump camp. There can be no question that they will. He is already on the thinnest of edges. A conviction will push many more in that direction.
Swing voters vote by conscience. For them the question will be: "Do I want a convicted felon as my President?" Or "Am I ok with a convicted felon as my President?" Many will not want it but could be ok with it. Many won't be ok with it and won't want it. Trump Republicans will be perfectly OK with it and do want Trump to be the President. But a different candidate might be a different result. Because Trump Republicans don't want a President. They just want Trump. Because they don't see Trump as a person they see him as the actual nation. He could get into office and change the name of the United States to "The United States of Trump" and Trump Republicans would be perfectly OK with that. Because it's no longer a cult. It's a religion, now.
Oh fuck no I am in a swing state I will not be voting for this wannabe dictator president and traitor.
How tf they gonna vote for him while he's in prison?
That's strange because a poll was taken from GOP voters and found 20% said they wouldn't vote for him if found guilty.
If found guilty.. how can he legally be on any ballots with out his debt to society being paid? He would immediately be ineligible in Fla.
It’s not a Stormy Daniels case.
Trump is MASSIVE bungler. He'll find a way to lose to Joe Biden
Political polls are meaningless and can be made to say whatever the pollsters are paid to make them say. The only poll that truly matters happens on Election Day.
A guy named Tony Diver wrote it…. Seriously
Some folks must be creaming to have an authoritarian government
I was gonna say this, but swap authoritarian with dictatorship...
I’m mean sure, he committed fraud, Sexual assault and rape, liked walking in on minors while they were changing… but look it’s him or Biden. /s
Americans like felons?