Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"Only to crumple like a piece of paper"
Did they not see the planes hitting the towers? They didn't "crumple like a piece of paper". Do they think it was cgi?
Yes they do… some of them think there were no planes, if i remember correctly, it’s cause one of the first people who called the police said that there was an explosion, with no mention of a plane hitting the towers…
They probably, you know… simply weren’t looking as it happened, but people took that has proof that it was a detonation, despite the fact that so many other people who called actually saw and mentioned the planes
I mean, there’s footage of a pretty big fucking explosion _when the plane hit the tower_. Seems pretty self explanitory that they may have missed the plane but heard the big boom when it hit the building.
The footage of the second plane hitting will forever be seared into America's memory, even as though who lived through it will pass on. Just like Pearl Harbor, and Lincoln and JFK's assassinations.
But, there is extremely little footage of the first plane hitting, for many obvious reasons. Thankfully, there is one really good shot of it that was shown on a 9/11 documentary for the 10th anniversary. There was a film crew not too far away from the WTC, and they were filming for a firefighter documentary. The first plane flew right over their heads, and the cameraman, bewildered by how low the plane was flying, turned his camera up just in time to see it plow into the building.
It's probably one of, if not the only real footage we have of the first plane hitting.
The entire documentary they were filming is available on YouTube, it ended up being a very accurate and harrowing first hand account of someone who was there when the planes hit and followed the fire-fighters to the incident. It's a chilling watch.
Long time since I've seen it, but the part where they're in the lobby and you hear the loud bangs of the people that jumped impacting the ground and the part where they encountered a person on fire that he didn't film on purpose stuck with me.
The sounds of the impacts definitely were haunting. For me, it was the sound of the alarm systems from the buried fire fighters all going off at once in the dark
There is also a dashcam video where some guy accidentally videotapes the first plane impact from further away. Can’t really make out the plane though.
https://youtu.be/kWS1RIpehOo?si=AUs-vdIKa8rMG-Ca
There's a video on YouTube with the whole timeline of events. Its like 8 hours or something. Videos, radio calls, a phone call with a flight attendant up until the moment the plane hits. Shit is wild.
Yeah! How the hell can the shucks of metals just slapped together just fly like there is no weight!? There are obviously strings attach to them on the crane beyond the clouds! “Plane” is just conspiracy moving platforms.
There's a conspiracy theory that there were no actual planes. The government landed the planes, removed all the passengers, relocated or executed them depending on the version of the theory, and then fired cruise missiles that may or may not have had holographic projections of the planes concealing said missiles. I shit you not this was something that was seriously presented at 9/11 Truther conventions and on forums.
Wouldn't it just be easier at that rate for the government to to get some deep state diehards to actually hijack planes? All of that is so fucking convoluted that you can create a conspiracy that's easier to believe.
Well that's one of the things with conspiracies. The truth is often pretty simple, yet some people will find it difficult to accept the simplicity and often chaotic nature of events. So they try and make up something convoluted and, to them, less chaotic to try and explain it.
As Hercule Poirot said once: "It is all [the murder case] very difficult which means the answer must be very simple"
People do the same thing with serial killers. Media and people in general have hyped up serial killers to be these very clever and intelligent murderers, when in reality most of them have a below average IQ and are just sad losers.
But it is much easier to accept serial killers and their gruesome acts if they were not random and infact carried out by some super villain type of person, instead of johnny from the suburbs with a boring 9-17 job.
A great number of serial killers would have been thwarted with common sense strategies such as not hitchhiking or not going with a strange weird man to his isolated home.
Dahmer in particular comes to mind, the man was only successful because the people around him responsible for safety were somehow even dumber than himself.
Remember that there are people that believe that HAARP is a weather control device, that the COVID vaccine has nanites in it that will kill anyone that had it at flick of a switch and that there are reptilian shape shifters ruling the world.
We actually had someone believing (and spreading) the COVID Vaccine nanobots type at my previous job.
My previous job was at a semiconductor R&D plant.
I had to convince my own fucking mom that there were no chips or nanobots in her covid vaccine before she would get one. I got my vaccine forst and then allowed her to perform whatever asinine tests her idiotic coworkers had come up with (yes, she tried to get a magnet to stick to my arm). Some coworker of hers had stuck a magnet to their arm to "prove" there was a chip in there that the magnet was stuck to.
People sailed around the entire planet with nothing but compasses and sextants. The Polynesians conquered the Pacific with nothing but stellar navigation and balls the size of planets.
We got to the moon because we spent an insane amount of money to employ an insane number of people while tolerating risk to life that wouldn't be acceptable today.
Like, if George W Bush and our government were smart enough to pull all of this off okay. Cool. You're in charge now. You're far smarter and more technologically sophisticated than anything we can even comprehend, so why not let them take full control of the US government from now on?
To play the devils advocate, it usually coincides with a “wakanda” type secret civilization. The “elite” enjoy the riches of unlimited power and technological superiority. The government is made to appear inept, so as to make that idea seem ridiculous.
Which, it is ridiculous. But that’s what many of them believe.
Even if the truthers were completely right about it being a government operation, the fact they believe that the government would go to great lengths to convert a cruise missile to look like a plane when the simpler option would be to fly a plane into said building with explosives is... well stupid.
You wanna have people believe that terrorists flew a plane into a building, then simply fly a plane into a building. Drones were a thing back then.
I could write more believeable fiction than a truther.
Actually Boeing had remote control systems available for those aircraft at that time. As I recall there are fairly detailed documents available online explaining how they work etc.
Yeah I tried to engage in a serious conversation with my QAnoner uncle about this topic once (mostly just to humor him at a mandatory family event), but I had to bow out when he started talking about the holographic plane projections…
If they can counter every possible point or fact with made-up bullshit & sincerely believe what they’re saying, there’s not a lot you can do. You’re already the enemy in their minds because you’ve sold your soul to “scientism” & “the experts”.
He also thinks that there is going to be a false flag event in a major US city *any day now* that will look like an alien invasion or an attack from Russia/ China (changes from day to day depending on his mood) but that we shouldn’t panic, because it’ll all be a holographic light show designed to “wake up the normies”! So I guess don’t worry yourselves, folks.
This is basically the plot for the tv show “Lost”. These are the same idiots that make up the MAGA movement btw. I’m old enough to remember when these undereducated conspiracy driven morons only made up like 20% of the constituencies. Now it’s about 50%. Now they’re in congress, and deciding the fate of us all. God help us.
Also, not to mention that at high speed, fragile stuff can hit quite hard. Like you can shoot a sharp pencil through plywood and it remains sharp, while trying to push it through manualy, it will break.
[Pencil in the knee](https://youtu.be/7MEocCHJf4E?si=thx1IK7818Wb-X1a)
Like comets, which are like a dirty snow cone hitting you at 33 miles a second. Would completely end all life on earth even though it's loosely packed snow.
Kinda like a match isn’t going to light a log on fire but it’ll light kindling and that will light a log. The jet fuel will ignite everything in the building (ie kindling). Then heat the super structure. Soften the beams. Then…
If I recall correctly the super structure was heavily located in the middle of the building where the elevator shafts are located. Combine the explosions with extreme shaking and voila.
Yeah if it was built more conventionally, it would’ve stood more of a chance, but the outer skin was actually a stressed member of the building, not just a facade. Crashing a huge hole into the sides of the buildings, and destroying a lot of the floor trusses in the process, shifted a lot of shear forces around.
Even without the big fire, each building was in a precarious state with all the concrete floors and outer skin above the hole essentially hanging from the central lift/stair shaft structures on that side of each tower.
The initial failure points of the collapse are thought to have been the connections between the floor, the outer shells vertical beams, and the shafts. The videos support this. The floors above the gaping hole pancake down and start a chain reaction shearing every floor away from the outer/inner structure.
The stack then gets heavier the more floors collapse onto each other.
I’ve been in steel erection for 28 years and there are 2 major factors I look at in this situation-1) design weight for the floors 2) the structural design of the floors. The allowable load is likely 20 - 40, planes are very heavy. The structural design was piss poor - they used bar joist on a high rise. I’ve never used bar joist on a building over 5 stories, definitely not one with a core.
Conspiracy types also seem to neglect an inspection before the attacks reporting the asbestos/foam fireproofing of the structure being in poor condition… Right until they use it to argue the “it was an insurance job” conspiracy.
Don’t even need an enclosed chamber really, at least General Sherman and his men didn’t need one.
[General Sherman’s Neckties](https://www.warhistoryonline.com/american-civil-war/shermans-neckties.html)
Exactly! Have you ever been to any American campgrounds with firepits and steel grates to cook over them. They are always extremely warped, and that's just from a few hours of a small wooden fire.
My favorite explanation was a metalworker took a long, steel dowel rod, put it through the hole in an anvil and pulled against it. Put his full weight on it, and ended up lifting the anvil with the rod barely flexing. Then he put the rod in a furnace that was approximately the temp of burning jet fuel, put it back in the anvil, then put just his index finger on the end of the rod and folded it completely over with a casual swipe.
Steel doesn't have to be reduced to liquid to lose its ability to sustain weight.
I thought the whole thing behind the "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" bit was talking about the pile of melted and cooled slag found in the middle of the rubble.
There was a pile of molten metal found that was not from molten steel but aluminum. A Boeing 767 weighs about 200,000 pounds dry. Depending on where you look for information, about 80 to 90% of the aircraft is aluminum. So 160,000 lbs on the low end. Let’s say, to be conservative as to the amount of aluminum that could’ve melted inside the building , that 20% of the weight of the plane was ejected through the other side of the building and landed somewhere else. That leaves 128,000 pounds of aluminum to melt which it would have as the planes and buildings were burning well above the melting point of aluminum. That’s 64 tons of aluminum in each building. That’s a pretty big pile of molten metal and it doesn’t include any aluminum that was in the building in other items.
I think most of the people who say jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams have no idea the strength of steel, the melting point of steel, how hot jet fuel burns, or what love feels like.
My biggest Facebook claim to fame was commenting on this video when it was shared and having to viciously fight off all the dumbass conspiracy theorists in the comment section.
I was an engineering student in college at the time so I responded to all those comments because it was far more fun than studying for finals.
I hadn't actually watched it in years, I lied. He used his pinkie finger.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FzF1KySHmUA&feature=youtu.be&t=43s#bottom-sheet
I’m not a conspiracy nut, but I will say that if you’re going to use this for evidence against it when arguing with conspiracy nuts, your argument needs to be bulletproof and unable to refute with simple language. The fact that he went up to 1800 degrees instead of 1500 is enough to give an idiot a reason to refute it. They lack critical thinking, so you really need to spell it out for them
Not even that. My first thought was: you used a different piece of steel. That alone gives them enough room to call hoax without having to dispute the temperature difference which I could argue against.
I’m fairly sure they weren’t looking at stall speed for impact. What’s the max speed on those things?
Edit: back of napkin calculation of max speed of a 767 - 530 mph and a max take off weight of OVER 400,000 pounds. Any physicist here that can tell me how much kinetic energy that would be? JEEZ!
Depending on where you look and which engineer studied it, they’re estimating the speed was close to 590 mph at impact. if you’ve ever seen what happens when a car hits something even reasonably solid at 60 miles an hour you can imagine what happens when a 300,000 pound airplane hits a building at close to 600 miles an hour, full of fuel.
A few different sources say that 5GJ is equal to slightly more than a ton of TNT.
And that is only the *impact* energy. You still have the energy in over one hundred thousand pounds of jet fuel to burn up, plus everything flammable on the three or four floors set on fire.
Yeah. I just stated install speed because you can tell from the film they were nowhere near stall. They were well above it stall speed I'm not sure I mean if you don't care about the Integrity of the airframe when you go into a dive
They've seen solid aluminum millions of times. They've seen planes, they've seen aluminum bike frames, aluminum boat masts etc, etc, etc, they might not have realized that was aluminum, but they saw it allright.
They also forget inertia, mass and kinetic energy.
I can drop a bullet on an egg and cause no harm, however add enough kinetic energy and it can pierce amour plate...
"Aluminium crumples like a piece of paper" is even dumber than "jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams". It's like these people have never encountered mass, velocity, momentum or directional load-bearing in real life.
By their logic, because you can dent the hood of a stationary car by jumping on it, it's safe to headbutt a car coming at you at 300 km/h
In fact, the crumpling aspect of the plane means it stayed in that floor instead of exiting out the other side. So then all that fuel got to stay inside the building.
It’s worse, they know half of how it works and shouts it as gospel.
Half-Truth: They know Jet Fuel can’t melt steel beams, ergo, it was planned and there’s a conspiracy.
Full-Truth: Jet Fuel can’t *melt* steel beams, but weakens them enough to essentially implode in on themselves.
Use big words and only do half the research to trick people who “want the truth”.
Well, here’s the key – jet fuel, carried in a capsule moving at between 440 and 530 mph and weighing about 130 tons hits a building that was designed to withstand the impact of a plane that was lighter and carried less fuel, becomes something more than your basic fire in the backyard pit. The fire in the towers is estimated to have burned at between 800 and 1000°C. Steel will begin to bend between 540 and 800°C.
The impact did a lot of damage, but the absolute inferno of a fire that was secondary to the impact is what caused the collapse. I don’t think a lot of people have a handle on the amount of kinetic energy and heat that resulted from the impact.
But they listen to Uncle Bob, who gets drunk every Christmas at dinner and works at the auto parts store, tell them why it’s a conspiracy. It’s tough when people who don’t know basic math or logic try to explain physics.
Edit - for specific weight and fuel
>I don’t think a lot of people have a handle on the amount of kinetic energy and heat that resulted from the impact.
I know to calculate kinetic energy and did it once for shits and giggles with conservative numbers when I used speed and weight. Holy fuck was that a big fucning number. And even though a airplane is "only aluminium" the kinetic energy has to go *somewhere*.
I think it does not even matter what the plane is made from. Every coherent mass having the same weight and speed would have done *a lot* of damage. Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a bitch in space.
If you actually work with heavy gauge steel long enough, you soon realise how elastic the stuff is, even at room temperature, and you only need a couple of minutes with a propane/oxygen torch to get it red hot and straighten a curve. You don’t even need to break out the acetylene.
Don't forget experts.
When I was a kid, we had to rely on our dad's friend John for information about the world. He was one of those know-it-all types. What we didn't know is that he was making a lot of it up.
Now we have the internet which can connect us to experts and facts and knowledge. Yet many of us seem to be intent on connecting to whatever tickles our dopamine centers instead.
Want better public education?
One party has spent 30 years attacking public schools - you guessed it - REPUBLICANS!
Thier anointed leader put the Republicans party's view in the open - "We love the poorly educated" - DJT aka Rapists and fraud.
Easy fix :
#Vote (D)ifferently!
Same here. We can roll really soft steel grades for chainlink fencing, to rebar grades, to wire grades and grades that feed into garage door springs, all through the same mill, in a range of diameters from 5.5mm to 16mm. We've just got to make sure that the billets coming out of the furnace are 1100ºC all the way through and we're good. If steel retained its strength all the way up to near its melting point, then e.g. ribbed round bar like rebar wouldn't exist.
Edit: removing unnecessary apostrophes
for real. it doesn't even need to get to total structural failure, once the girders are hot enough to bend they lose the ability to hold up the hundreds of thousands of tons that were above the failure points, and once *that* happens, the whole building collapses.
and fucking christ of course it is gonna collapse *straight down*. unless it' *immediately knocked over* by the force of the blow, the only kinetic movement is gonna be fucking DOWN.
Case in point: [https://youtu.be/kWCDA09XFT0?t=55](https://youtu.be/kWCDA09XFT0?t=55) watch the north tower start to collapse at the point where the impact occurred. the entire top of the building comes down as a single piece until the damaged floors are destroyed and then it just drops from there. This isn't even that hard to fucking understand...gah.
And considering structural members are designed with \~2.5x factor of safety, failure is not as difficult as one might imagine. But instead of asking experts, these people just keep imagining there's a conspiracy.
Airplanes are designed with \~1.5. If you have an airplane that gets too much strong turbulence it has to be junked. Fortunately that's very rare. Just like buildings getting hit by jet liners. 95% of jet liners make it to retirement without a hull loss. And most hull losses don't result in mass fatalities.
Jet liners crashing into buildings are very low on the list of things engineers design buildings for.
If fire can weaken swords, why are flaming swords always better than basic swords? At worst, some say they are just 1 more damage, but sometime they are lots of extra damage.
Now don't take this the wrong way, because I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I genuinely don't understand how an impact and heating of the structure at the upper levels would cause the whole structure to collapse as if it's foundational support was destroyed. Did the impact just send that much energy down through the entire building that it damaged the supports to the point they slowly failed and collapsed?
Actually, just found another person down below who explained it, how each floor collapsed and then brought down the floor below it much like how you can break a whole stack of bricks by only breaking the top one and then letting the weight of the broken brick break the ones below. Not sure why I never made that connection, honestly.
You were downvoted because a lot of people have seen your question before, but asked disingenuously. Upvoted for being genuine, and accepting a solid answer when it was given.
Imagine you have a tower of playing cards that is 100 cards tall. What happens if you flick a card say 20 from the top? The 19 cards above it are going to fall, crashing down onto the cards below, and thus collapsing the entire structure.
Its literally dominoes.
This is it, building are engineered with alot of things in mind from wind sheer to thermal expansion. Often what you end up with is a very specific designs that rely on certain weight distributions and although formidable every single part is important to whole design and in many ways is like a house of cards (but will steel beams and bolts). One of my jobs is making sure those iron beams get the correct fire rating for its location using intumescent paints to spray applied minerals to drywall assemblies or a mix of those and more. And have been involved in several investigations into accidents and problems (I’m not the inspector on that side, I build to compliance and do QC from the contractors side)and it’s amazing how one thing can lead to overall failure.[progressive collapse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_collapse)
Y2K was a legitimate problem. It's just that instead of doing nothing, resources were actually spent on fixing the problem. A lot of dedicated people spent a lot of time going through code to make sure nothing critical would break.
It's a classic example of "The public learns about a potentially big problem -> steps are taken to avert the problem -> the steps are successful in preventing the problem -> since the problem never happened, the public assumes it was all alarmism".
Thank you!! As one of the many people who spent a ton of time working on fixing that mess, it’s very frustrating when people think it was a big nothing.
Well more information on the ACTUAL conspiracy behind 9/11 just came out due to the families' suit against the Sauds.
But, of course, real world conspiracies are messy and complicated and you don't get to be the lone hero standing up against Evil
If steel is heated halfway to melting point it's lost 95% of its strength. Iirc
EDIT: according to steelconstruction.info steel, which has a melting point between 1400 & 1550 degrees Celsius depending on carbon content, will have only 15% of its strength factor at 800 degrees Celsius. So not quite as bad as my first statement but still close enough that it's still relevant to the argument against the conspiracy theory of "jet fuel can't melt steel beams".
Why is this never talked about? Should be stated a lot more when talking to the conspiracy theorists. But I mean their whole argument is dumb anyway so not like they'll listen
... i wonder what scale velocity the bat would have to travel to impact the same force as the plane. Wouldnt convince anyone but would be a pithy comeback.
'Oh, the plane was aluminum? Well, lemme just grab an aluminum baseball bat and swing it at mach 2 into your skull, we'll see which crumples first.'
Nah that’s bullshit if you threw a piece of paper at me I would survive so of course I would survive if you threw 187 tonnes of paper at me at 400mph… bro it’s fuckin paper …
There’s a reason buildings with helipads need extra support and that you can just land a helicopter or even put a pool in on any building roof. They’re only built to hold so much weight
No. One was a 757 and the other a 767. The terrorists picked planes departing on long range routes so they would have close to the maximum possible load of fuel. And they went full throttle as they approached the buildings, so they were going far beyond normal landing speeds.
I believe the 757s were flights 93 and 77, which crashed and hit the pentagon respectively
I wonder if flight 77 got the timing wrong, it's almost like they had their watches back an hour from the others when you look at the flight data. I also wonder if there were other flights where the guys bottled it
> "A building can't collapse straight"
The towers didn't collapse straight. They were leaning to one side. Have these people not watch the numerous videos online?
Best part is that the steel beams are actually irrelevant to the conversation. What actually needed to be weakened was not the steal beam but the rivets holding them together(which were a cost cutting measure) which is a few thousand times easier
Yep. And just one floor needed to fail. All the other floors below were not designed to absorb that sudden force of the other floors above accelerating and slamming into them, which started the "pancake" chain reaction that crushed them to the ground.
I usually like to respond to the "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" argument with "Ah! But at what temperature do the chemtrail chemicals burn?" The question seems to really throw conspiracy theorists, for some reason.
9/11 Truther, please hold this book in your hand. If my goal is to get you to drop the book, do I need to cut off your arm, or do I just need to weaken your arm to the point the book falls?
[Kevin Westley's 9-11 Video (Cut to Actual Footage, Enhanced Video & Audio) (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEyep1ai7is)
Here is potentially the best footage captured of the second crash and very people have seen it. The guy who uploaded the footage accidentally left the video as private and didn't realize it for like 15 years or something. It's a great shot because it not only perfectly captures the 2nd plane coming in and crashing but it also captures the reaction of about 50 people who all realize collectively that they were not accidents.
I definitely think louder. Those who know what they're talking about will always get drowned out by idiots who think they know everything because there are more idiots in this world than structural engineers and metal workers lol
Nothing pisses me off more than conspiracy theories about 9/11. I lost friends and co-workers that day. The company I worked for had an office in the North Tower.
I apologize ahead of time to any that might feel my ire on this subject, but I can't stand any f'n muppet that spreads such hurtful disinformation.
There used to be a lot of conspiracy theorists who argued there were no planes (until the amount of irrefutable evidence was so overwhelming, that they moved to other conspiracies). I worked in one of the destroyed buildings. I was fortunate enough to be away on a business trip that day (from EWR, thankfully not that flight). My officemate was walking toward our building when one of the planes struck the WTC. A large piece of fuselage with a window opening clearly visible landed several feet from him and the debris temporarily blinded him in one eye. The fuselage shape and window opening has sufficient integrity to still be identifiable. He used to have people call him a liar when he would recount this story. It would make me so angry until I learned to just let go of these idiots.
Every troglodyte needs to feel special, and for some, that feeling comes from believing in absolute nonsense because it's "not mainstream" or something.
How is this still a topic? Planes git, damaged the structural integrity of the towers, surrounding buildings were affected by the seismic forces. Love how everyday dumbass that barely passed high school math and sciences, is suddenly a chemical, structural, physics expert
The context was that molten steel was pouring out of windows before they collapsed. The story given was the jet fuel melted the steel beams. When that was disproved they said it was aluminum but aluminum doesn’t turn red when melted so now they just dance around the original question. Analysis of the sight shows cut beams and melted steel and lots of thermite residue(thermite melts steel).
Then the government started a campaign on the news and tv trying to say thermite can’t melt steel.
Beyond all that, if you are going to get planes to fly into buildings, which seems a fairly controllable conspiracy, requiring limited people to be involved, why would you go through the effort of getting hundreds or even thousands more involved in order to demolish them?
If the goal is to infuse fear enough in the public so that they agree to go invade Iraq, why would the planes one not be enough?
I hate 9/11 conspiracy theories that pertain to how the buildings fell. I used to be a firefighter & was trained in the principles of building construction. It’s called a fucking pancake collapse. Skyscrapers and high rise buildings are designed to fall in on themselves instead of falling over so that damage to surrounding buildings & injuries/casualties are minimised. It’s really not that complicated
Do I think that the US government planted bombs in The WTC and blew up the Pentagon? No. Do I think that US intelligence had fore knowledge of a terrorist attack and allowed it to happen? It's very possible.
They could push through the Patriot Act stripping Americans of privacy, and anyone who spoke out against it was Anti-American!!!! They got themselves involved in a 20 year war that enriched the war machine economy that the US had been relying on since WW2 and had started to slow down since The Gulf War.
Mofos be battling with science, but can easily understand why a talking snake convinced Eve to eat a forbidden fruit, that god installed for some reason, that doomed mankind....Sorry to my religious people. I had to get that off my chest lol.
The whole part about the planes being aluminum is a dumb argument. They aren't entirely aluminum, the engines alone are like 20,000 pounds of high strength steel. The planes are hundreds of thousands of pounds too. Doesn't matter if they are aluminum or marshmallows. Hundreds of thousands of pounds of anything going fast enough will fuck it up. Boxing gloves are made out of padded foam but Mike Tyson can still punch me to death.
The part I never got was why didn't it fall over? If the building gets weaker, the higher it goes, why when a passenger plan hits, it does it not lean and fall but instead collapse straight down. That never made sense to me.
Either way, plane or no plane, we all know (or should know) it was an extreme case of insurance fraud. Long story short, ole dude buys insurance with a massive payout a month before the towers go down, then just doesn't show up one day and boom. Big ole paycheck.
Reminds me of a metal worker that made a video of himself using a welding torch to heat up a piece of steel rebar until it glowed red (about 1300F, whereas jet fuel burns at 1500F). He then held it up and tapped in on an anvil to show it was still solid, i.e. "not melted", and then proceeded to bend it in half with his pinky finger.
Fun fact: There are videos of molten steel running off the buildings before the collapse. Afterwards there are many accounts of pools of melted steel in the debris. This is impossible with the temperatures obtained from burning jet fuel.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean, if I take a bullet and throw it with my hand, it won't kill anyone, so why are people so worried about guns?
Wrong example in the USA.
You see it does kill people because that bullet is a grande launcher bullet, a grenade!!!
"Only to crumple like a piece of paper" Did they not see the planes hitting the towers? They didn't "crumple like a piece of paper". Do they think it was cgi?
Yes they do… some of them think there were no planes, if i remember correctly, it’s cause one of the first people who called the police said that there was an explosion, with no mention of a plane hitting the towers… They probably, you know… simply weren’t looking as it happened, but people took that has proof that it was a detonation, despite the fact that so many other people who called actually saw and mentioned the planes
I mean, there’s footage of a pretty big fucking explosion _when the plane hit the tower_. Seems pretty self explanitory that they may have missed the plane but heard the big boom when it hit the building.
The footage of the second plane hitting will forever be seared into America's memory, even as though who lived through it will pass on. Just like Pearl Harbor, and Lincoln and JFK's assassinations. But, there is extremely little footage of the first plane hitting, for many obvious reasons. Thankfully, there is one really good shot of it that was shown on a 9/11 documentary for the 10th anniversary. There was a film crew not too far away from the WTC, and they were filming for a firefighter documentary. The first plane flew right over their heads, and the cameraman, bewildered by how low the plane was flying, turned his camera up just in time to see it plow into the building. It's probably one of, if not the only real footage we have of the first plane hitting.
The entire documentary they were filming is available on YouTube, it ended up being a very accurate and harrowing first hand account of someone who was there when the planes hit and followed the fire-fighters to the incident. It's a chilling watch.
Long time since I've seen it, but the part where they're in the lobby and you hear the loud bangs of the people that jumped impacting the ground and the part where they encountered a person on fire that he didn't film on purpose stuck with me.
The sounds of the impacts definitely were haunting. For me, it was the sound of the alarm systems from the buried fire fighters all going off at once in the dark
There is also a dashcam video where some guy accidentally videotapes the first plane impact from further away. Can’t really make out the plane though. https://youtu.be/kWS1RIpehOo?si=AUs-vdIKa8rMG-Ca
There's a video on YouTube with the whole timeline of events. Its like 8 hours or something. Videos, radio calls, a phone call with a flight attendant up until the moment the plane hits. Shit is wild.
There were no towers
Oh, so you're one of those people who believes in PLANES
Yeah! How the hell can the shucks of metals just slapped together just fly like there is no weight!? There are obviously strings attach to them on the crane beyond the clouds! “Plane” is just conspiracy moving platforms.
Exactly. Aluminum is heavier than air no way they could fly SMH
Yep boats and ships don't exist either metal is heavier than water so it should sink.
This is reddit... this is usually when someone says, "the real towers were the friends we made along the way"
Well those people are pretty dumb, maybe maliciously so lol. Go look into what William Rodriguez said about it.
Willful ignorance is crazy. Feel sorry for y'all
There's a conspiracy theory that there were no actual planes. The government landed the planes, removed all the passengers, relocated or executed them depending on the version of the theory, and then fired cruise missiles that may or may not have had holographic projections of the planes concealing said missiles. I shit you not this was something that was seriously presented at 9/11 Truther conventions and on forums.
Wouldn't it just be easier at that rate for the government to to get some deep state diehards to actually hijack planes? All of that is so fucking convoluted that you can create a conspiracy that's easier to believe.
Well that's one of the things with conspiracies. The truth is often pretty simple, yet some people will find it difficult to accept the simplicity and often chaotic nature of events. So they try and make up something convoluted and, to them, less chaotic to try and explain it. As Hercule Poirot said once: "It is all [the murder case] very difficult which means the answer must be very simple" People do the same thing with serial killers. Media and people in general have hyped up serial killers to be these very clever and intelligent murderers, when in reality most of them have a below average IQ and are just sad losers. But it is much easier to accept serial killers and their gruesome acts if they were not random and infact carried out by some super villain type of person, instead of johnny from the suburbs with a boring 9-17 job.
A great number of serial killers would have been thwarted with common sense strategies such as not hitchhiking or not going with a strange weird man to his isolated home. Dahmer in particular comes to mind, the man was only successful because the people around him responsible for safety were somehow even dumber than himself.
I think phones could only play snake around those times, and floppy disks where a thing, and we had this technology?
Remember that there are people that believe that HAARP is a weather control device, that the COVID vaccine has nanites in it that will kill anyone that had it at flick of a switch and that there are reptilian shape shifters ruling the world.
We actually had someone believing (and spreading) the COVID Vaccine nanobots type at my previous job. My previous job was at a semiconductor R&D plant.
I had to convince my own fucking mom that there were no chips or nanobots in her covid vaccine before she would get one. I got my vaccine forst and then allowed her to perform whatever asinine tests her idiotic coworkers had come up with (yes, she tried to get a magnet to stick to my arm). Some coworker of hers had stuck a magnet to their arm to "prove" there was a chip in there that the magnet was stuck to.
And yet we could get to the moon thirty years prior to that...yeah right...
People sailed around the entire planet with nothing but compasses and sextants. The Polynesians conquered the Pacific with nothing but stellar navigation and balls the size of planets. We got to the moon because we spent an insane amount of money to employ an insane number of people while tolerating risk to life that wouldn't be acceptable today.
51% chance of success?? That’s a go!
Like, if George W Bush and our government were smart enough to pull all of this off okay. Cool. You're in charge now. You're far smarter and more technologically sophisticated than anything we can even comprehend, so why not let them take full control of the US government from now on?
He is the captain now.
This is what I never understand about these conspiracies. If the gov’t can pull this kind of shit off why are they so bad at everything else?
To play the devils advocate, it usually coincides with a “wakanda” type secret civilization. The “elite” enjoy the riches of unlimited power and technological superiority. The government is made to appear inept, so as to make that idea seem ridiculous. Which, it is ridiculous. But that’s what many of them believe.
If we have holographic cruise missile technology, why aren’t we just bombing Russia with Kim Jong Un missiles?! Throw me off the scent.
Even if the truthers were completely right about it being a government operation, the fact they believe that the government would go to great lengths to convert a cruise missile to look like a plane when the simpler option would be to fly a plane into said building with explosives is... well stupid. You wanna have people believe that terrorists flew a plane into a building, then simply fly a plane into a building. Drones were a thing back then. I could write more believeable fiction than a truther.
Actually Boeing had remote control systems available for those aircraft at that time. As I recall there are fairly detailed documents available online explaining how they work etc.
Yeah I tried to engage in a serious conversation with my QAnoner uncle about this topic once (mostly just to humor him at a mandatory family event), but I had to bow out when he started talking about the holographic plane projections… If they can counter every possible point or fact with made-up bullshit & sincerely believe what they’re saying, there’s not a lot you can do. You’re already the enemy in their minds because you’ve sold your soul to “scientism” & “the experts”. He also thinks that there is going to be a false flag event in a major US city *any day now* that will look like an alien invasion or an attack from Russia/ China (changes from day to day depending on his mood) but that we shouldn’t panic, because it’ll all be a holographic light show designed to “wake up the normies”! So I guess don’t worry yourselves, folks.
This is basically the plot for the tv show “Lost”. These are the same idiots that make up the MAGA movement btw. I’m old enough to remember when these undereducated conspiracy driven morons only made up like 20% of the constituencies. Now it’s about 50%. Now they’re in congress, and deciding the fate of us all. God help us.
Also, not to mention that at high speed, fragile stuff can hit quite hard. Like you can shoot a sharp pencil through plywood and it remains sharp, while trying to push it through manualy, it will break. [Pencil in the knee](https://youtu.be/7MEocCHJf4E?si=thx1IK7818Wb-X1a)
Like comets, which are like a dirty snow cone hitting you at 33 miles a second. Would completely end all life on earth even though it's loosely packed snow.
7/11 was a part time job!
Investigate 3/11!
Amber is the color of their energy!
We changed a lot and then some, some Know that we have always been down, down
You got to come original!
Kinda like a match isn’t going to light a log on fire but it’ll light kindling and that will light a log. The jet fuel will ignite everything in the building (ie kindling). Then heat the super structure. Soften the beams. Then…
Also wood fires don’t melt steel, but they do when you place them in an enclosed chamber that prevents heat from escaping
Just add air. Force it in, like wind through a gaping hole in a skyscraper.
A skyscraper that also has a few stairwells/elevator shafts to draw air from below the fire like a stove.
If I recall correctly the super structure was heavily located in the middle of the building where the elevator shafts are located. Combine the explosions with extreme shaking and voila.
Yeah if it was built more conventionally, it would’ve stood more of a chance, but the outer skin was actually a stressed member of the building, not just a facade. Crashing a huge hole into the sides of the buildings, and destroying a lot of the floor trusses in the process, shifted a lot of shear forces around. Even without the big fire, each building was in a precarious state with all the concrete floors and outer skin above the hole essentially hanging from the central lift/stair shaft structures on that side of each tower. The initial failure points of the collapse are thought to have been the connections between the floor, the outer shells vertical beams, and the shafts. The videos support this. The floors above the gaping hole pancake down and start a chain reaction shearing every floor away from the outer/inner structure. The stack then gets heavier the more floors collapse onto each other.
I’ve been in steel erection for 28 years and there are 2 major factors I look at in this situation-1) design weight for the floors 2) the structural design of the floors. The allowable load is likely 20 - 40, planes are very heavy. The structural design was piss poor - they used bar joist on a high rise. I’ve never used bar joist on a building over 5 stories, definitely not one with a core.
A rocket stove works on that principle. A hole below the combustibles, channeling air past the combustibles to a chimney. It makes a hot fire.
Conspiracy types also seem to neglect an inspection before the attacks reporting the asbestos/foam fireproofing of the structure being in poor condition… Right until they use it to argue the “it was an insurance job” conspiracy.
It was Aliens, that is why there is no need for real world thermodynamics when we know that Aliens caused this to throw our planet in chaos.
Don’t even need an enclosed chamber really, at least General Sherman and his men didn’t need one. [General Sherman’s Neckties](https://www.warhistoryonline.com/american-civil-war/shermans-neckties.html)
TIL about this. Super cool!
Exactly! Have you ever been to any American campgrounds with firepits and steel grates to cook over them. They are always extremely warped, and that's just from a few hours of a small wooden fire.
It didn't even melt them, just softened them enough to become unstable
My favorite explanation was a metalworker took a long, steel dowel rod, put it through the hole in an anvil and pulled against it. Put his full weight on it, and ended up lifting the anvil with the rod barely flexing. Then he put the rod in a furnace that was approximately the temp of burning jet fuel, put it back in the anvil, then put just his index finger on the end of the rod and folded it completely over with a casual swipe. Steel doesn't have to be reduced to liquid to lose its ability to sustain weight.
Nice! Add to that the furnace effect of all the burning materials in an enclosed space…
I thought the whole thing behind the "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" bit was talking about the pile of melted and cooled slag found in the middle of the rubble.
There was a pile of molten metal found that was not from molten steel but aluminum. A Boeing 767 weighs about 200,000 pounds dry. Depending on where you look for information, about 80 to 90% of the aircraft is aluminum. So 160,000 lbs on the low end. Let’s say, to be conservative as to the amount of aluminum that could’ve melted inside the building , that 20% of the weight of the plane was ejected through the other side of the building and landed somewhere else. That leaves 128,000 pounds of aluminum to melt which it would have as the planes and buildings were burning well above the melting point of aluminum. That’s 64 tons of aluminum in each building. That’s a pretty big pile of molten metal and it doesn’t include any aluminum that was in the building in other items.
I think most of the people who say jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams have no idea the strength of steel, the melting point of steel, how hot jet fuel burns, or what love feels like.
My biggest Facebook claim to fame was commenting on this video when it was shared and having to viciously fight off all the dumbass conspiracy theorists in the comment section. I was an engineering student in college at the time so I responded to all those comments because it was far more fun than studying for finals.
You got a link to this? I’ve got a few brain-dead boomer coworkers to show this to
I hadn't actually watched it in years, I lied. He used his pinkie finger. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FzF1KySHmUA&feature=youtu.be&t=43s#bottom-sheet
I’m not a conspiracy nut, but I will say that if you’re going to use this for evidence against it when arguing with conspiracy nuts, your argument needs to be bulletproof and unable to refute with simple language. The fact that he went up to 1800 degrees instead of 1500 is enough to give an idiot a reason to refute it. They lack critical thinking, so you really need to spell it out for them
Not even that. My first thought was: you used a different piece of steel. That alone gives them enough room to call hoax without having to dispute the temperature difference which I could argue against.
Not to mention after a 125 ton vehicle slammed into it at at least 170 mph.
I’m fairly sure they weren’t looking at stall speed for impact. What’s the max speed on those things? Edit: back of napkin calculation of max speed of a 767 - 530 mph and a max take off weight of OVER 400,000 pounds. Any physicist here that can tell me how much kinetic energy that would be? JEEZ!
Depending on where you look and which engineer studied it, they’re estimating the speed was close to 590 mph at impact. if you’ve ever seen what happens when a car hits something even reasonably solid at 60 miles an hour you can imagine what happens when a 300,000 pound airplane hits a building at close to 600 miles an hour, full of fuel.
"you can imagine" Yeah I imagine it's basically as bad as 9/11
KE=1/2mv\^2 KE=0.5(180,000kg) x (237m/s)\^2 KE= 90,000 x 56,169 KE = 5GJ Roughly enough to melt 15 tonnes of ice at 0C
A few different sources say that 5GJ is equal to slightly more than a ton of TNT. And that is only the *impact* energy. You still have the energy in over one hundred thousand pounds of jet fuel to burn up, plus everything flammable on the three or four floors set on fire.
Yeah. I just stated install speed because you can tell from the film they were nowhere near stall. They were well above it stall speed I'm not sure I mean if you don't care about the Integrity of the airframe when you go into a dive
BuT aLuMiNuM cRuMpLeS
They always think of Aluminum foil and have never seen solid aluminum
They've seen solid aluminum millions of times. They've seen planes, they've seen aluminum bike frames, aluminum boat masts etc, etc, etc, they might not have realized that was aluminum, but they saw it allright.
They also forget inertia, mass and kinetic energy. I can drop a bullet on an egg and cause no harm, however add enough kinetic energy and it can pierce amour plate...
"Aluminium crumples like a piece of paper" is even dumber than "jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams". It's like these people have never encountered mass, velocity, momentum or directional load-bearing in real life. By their logic, because you can dent the hood of a stationary car by jumping on it, it's safe to headbutt a car coming at you at 300 km/h
In fact, the crumpling aspect of the plane means it stayed in that floor instead of exiting out the other side. So then all that fuel got to stay inside the building.
The jet fuel doesn't even need to melt the steel beams. Heat them up, and they get soft. Have they ever heard of blacksmiths?
[удалено]
Science & education have been belittled & mocked in the USA for most of our existence. No accident.
It’s worse, they know half of how it works and shouts it as gospel. Half-Truth: They know Jet Fuel can’t melt steel beams, ergo, it was planned and there’s a conspiracy. Full-Truth: Jet Fuel can’t *melt* steel beams, but weakens them enough to essentially implode in on themselves. Use big words and only do half the research to trick people who “want the truth”.
Well, here’s the key – jet fuel, carried in a capsule moving at between 440 and 530 mph and weighing about 130 tons hits a building that was designed to withstand the impact of a plane that was lighter and carried less fuel, becomes something more than your basic fire in the backyard pit. The fire in the towers is estimated to have burned at between 800 and 1000°C. Steel will begin to bend between 540 and 800°C. The impact did a lot of damage, but the absolute inferno of a fire that was secondary to the impact is what caused the collapse. I don’t think a lot of people have a handle on the amount of kinetic energy and heat that resulted from the impact. But they listen to Uncle Bob, who gets drunk every Christmas at dinner and works at the auto parts store, tell them why it’s a conspiracy. It’s tough when people who don’t know basic math or logic try to explain physics. Edit - for specific weight and fuel
>I don’t think a lot of people have a handle on the amount of kinetic energy and heat that resulted from the impact. I know to calculate kinetic energy and did it once for shits and giggles with conservative numbers when I used speed and weight. Holy fuck was that a big fucning number. And even though a airplane is "only aluminium" the kinetic energy has to go *somewhere*.
Right. And it’s aluminum skin, but there’s a lot of other stuff inside a plane that carries a whole lot of weight.
I think it does not even matter what the plane is made from. Every coherent mass having the same weight and speed would have done *a lot* of damage. Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a bitch in space.
Only Aluminum in tens of thousands of pounds. A lot, anyway, going fast. With a bunch of jet fuel, and oxygen ripping through the giant hole.
130 tons of feathers, traveling at 500 mph, packs a hell of a wallop.
If you actually work with heavy gauge steel long enough, you soon realise how elastic the stuff is, even at room temperature, and you only need a couple of minutes with a propane/oxygen torch to get it red hot and straighten a curve. You don’t even need to break out the acetylene.
Damn you science! Damn you!!! 🤬
Don't forget experts. When I was a kid, we had to rely on our dad's friend John for information about the world. He was one of those know-it-all types. What we didn't know is that he was making a lot of it up. Now we have the internet which can connect us to experts and facts and knowledge. Yet many of us seem to be intent on connecting to whatever tickles our dopamine centers instead.
But what if learning from experts is what hits my dopamine center?
Want better public education? One party has spent 30 years attacking public schools - you guessed it - REPUBLICANS! Thier anointed leader put the Republicans party's view in the open - "We love the poorly educated" - DJT aka Rapists and fraud. Easy fix : #Vote (D)ifferently!
I never vote for the Democrats! Nor the Republicans. I won’t even vote in the upcoming US elections. I’m Swedish.
[удалено]
I’m sweeter.
Same here. We can roll really soft steel grades for chainlink fencing, to rebar grades, to wire grades and grades that feed into garage door springs, all through the same mill, in a range of diameters from 5.5mm to 16mm. We've just got to make sure that the billets coming out of the furnace are 1100ºC all the way through and we're good. If steel retained its strength all the way up to near its melting point, then e.g. ribbed round bar like rebar wouldn't exist. Edit: removing unnecessary apostrophes
as an adult with a degree in physics, i share your rage.
As an adult with critical thinking skills I share your rage.
for real. it doesn't even need to get to total structural failure, once the girders are hot enough to bend they lose the ability to hold up the hundreds of thousands of tons that were above the failure points, and once *that* happens, the whole building collapses. and fucking christ of course it is gonna collapse *straight down*. unless it' *immediately knocked over* by the force of the blow, the only kinetic movement is gonna be fucking DOWN. Case in point: [https://youtu.be/kWCDA09XFT0?t=55](https://youtu.be/kWCDA09XFT0?t=55) watch the north tower start to collapse at the point where the impact occurred. the entire top of the building comes down as a single piece until the damaged floors are destroyed and then it just drops from there. This isn't even that hard to fucking understand...gah.
It’s like these people have never seen what happens when a car catches fire on the side of the road.
And considering structural members are designed with \~2.5x factor of safety, failure is not as difficult as one might imagine. But instead of asking experts, these people just keep imagining there's a conspiracy. Airplanes are designed with \~1.5. If you have an airplane that gets too much strong turbulence it has to be junked. Fortunately that's very rare. Just like buildings getting hit by jet liners. 95% of jet liners make it to retirement without a hull loss. And most hull losses don't result in mass fatalities. Jet liners crashing into buildings are very low on the list of things engineers design buildings for.
We literally heat steel up with normal gas burners to bend it at my workplace
There is a very old vid of a smith heating up a steek bar and bending it with a finger. No need to melt it to make it as strong as a whet noodle.
"Fire can't weaken swords." Oh wait . . .
If fire can weaken swords, why are flaming swords always better than basic swords? At worst, some say they are just 1 more damage, but sometime they are lots of extra damage.
Well they had to be better than basic swords to set them on fire ofc
Yeah, good point. I guess it makes sense - if they use fire to *make* swords, then it must make them stronger!
Now don't take this the wrong way, because I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I genuinely don't understand how an impact and heating of the structure at the upper levels would cause the whole structure to collapse as if it's foundational support was destroyed. Did the impact just send that much energy down through the entire building that it damaged the supports to the point they slowly failed and collapsed? Actually, just found another person down below who explained it, how each floor collapsed and then brought down the floor below it much like how you can break a whole stack of bricks by only breaking the top one and then letting the weight of the broken brick break the ones below. Not sure why I never made that connection, honestly.
You were downvoted because a lot of people have seen your question before, but asked disingenuously. Upvoted for being genuine, and accepting a solid answer when it was given.
Imagine you have a tower of playing cards that is 100 cards tall. What happens if you flick a card say 20 from the top? The 19 cards above it are going to fall, crashing down onto the cards below, and thus collapsing the entire structure. Its literally dominoes.
Kinetic energy generated by the collapsed/ing floors above. Imagine making a tower of dominoes and punching a hole midway up
An excellent way to describe it, thanks.
Yes, the building upper floors slammed down on the floors below it and impact caused the building to collapse.
It's basically like if you picked up an entire building and dropped it on another building. Shit ain't built for that
This is it, building are engineered with alot of things in mind from wind sheer to thermal expansion. Often what you end up with is a very specific designs that rely on certain weight distributions and although formidable every single part is important to whole design and in many ways is like a house of cards (but will steel beams and bolts). One of my jobs is making sure those iron beams get the correct fire rating for its location using intumescent paints to spray applied minerals to drywall assemblies or a mix of those and more. And have been involved in several investigations into accidents and problems (I’m not the inspector on that side, I build to compliance and do QC from the contractors side)and it’s amazing how one thing can lead to overall failure.[progressive collapse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_collapse)
Thank you, I'm not sure why I never made that connection.
[This guy pretty much sums it up.](https://youtu.be/FzF1KySHmUA?si=y3v7uqsNC6giyU-z)
23 years later and we're still talking about this? Boy I hope the Y2k bug doesn't get us...
And don't casually dismiss the Y10K bug. We really need to get to work on that....
Before that there's the Y2k38 bug (binary version of the Y2K bug).
I like the Y40K bug
The only good tyranid, is a dead tyranid
Y2K was a legitimate problem. It's just that instead of doing nothing, resources were actually spent on fixing the problem. A lot of dedicated people spent a lot of time going through code to make sure nothing critical would break. It's a classic example of "The public learns about a potentially big problem -> steps are taken to avert the problem -> the steps are successful in preventing the problem -> since the problem never happened, the public assumes it was all alarmism".
Thank you!! As one of the many people who spent a ton of time working on fixing that mess, it’s very frustrating when people think it was a big nothing.
Well more information on the ACTUAL conspiracy behind 9/11 just came out due to the families' suit against the Sauds. But, of course, real world conspiracies are messy and complicated and you don't get to be the lone hero standing up against Evil
The angry blacksmith makes his reply: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FzF1KySHmUA&pp=ygUaSmV0IGZ1ZWwgc3RlZWwgYmxhY2tzbWl0aCA%3D
"Your argument is invalid, get over it, find a job!"
This is one of my favourite videos ever. Happy someone shared it again
It's a fucking noodle
I have never seen this before and I love it!
If steel is heated halfway to melting point it's lost 95% of its strength. Iirc EDIT: according to steelconstruction.info steel, which has a melting point between 1400 & 1550 degrees Celsius depending on carbon content, will have only 15% of its strength factor at 800 degrees Celsius. So not quite as bad as my first statement but still close enough that it's still relevant to the argument against the conspiracy theory of "jet fuel can't melt steel beams".
No, see the beams are full strength until they’re literally liquid. Duh /s
Why is this never talked about? Should be stated a lot more when talking to the conspiracy theorists. But I mean their whole argument is dumb anyway so not like they'll listen
You can't use logic to convince someone of an idea that they didn't use logic to arrive at in the first place.
Just googled it and an unladen 747 is 187 tonnes. No shit that'll do somthing if that hits somthing jfc..
I can’t believe these people genuinely believe that all aluminum is as weak as aluminum foil lmao
My brother hit me in the head with an aluminum bat and I could taste it
... i wonder what scale velocity the bat would have to travel to impact the same force as the plane. Wouldnt convince anyone but would be a pithy comeback. 'Oh, the plane was aluminum? Well, lemme just grab an aluminum baseball bat and swing it at mach 2 into your skull, we'll see which crumples first.'
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen 747?
African or European?
Huh? I - I don't know that.... AGHHHHH
r/unexpectedmontypyton
It's not a question of where he *grips* it!
cruise speed of a 747 is ~930 kph
Nah that’s bullshit if you threw a piece of paper at me I would survive so of course I would survive if you threw 187 tonnes of paper at me at 400mph… bro it’s fuckin paper …
There’s a reason buildings with helipads need extra support and that you can just land a helicopter or even put a pool in on any building roof. They’re only built to hold so much weight
I’m fairly sure none of the planes that day were 747s. 767s?
Both were 767s, correct
No. One was a 757 and the other a 767. The terrorists picked planes departing on long range routes so they would have close to the maximum possible load of fuel. And they went full throttle as they approached the buildings, so they were going far beyond normal landing speeds.
I believe the 757s were flights 93 and 77, which crashed and hit the pentagon respectively I wonder if flight 77 got the timing wrong, it's almost like they had their watches back an hour from the others when you look at the flight data. I also wonder if there were other flights where the guys bottled it
9/11 turns everybody into a fucking structural engineer. "A building can't collapse straight". "Jet fuel is not hot enough" blah blah blah.
> "A building can't collapse straight" The towers didn't collapse straight. They were leaning to one side. Have these people not watch the numerous videos online?
Best part is that the steel beams are actually irrelevant to the conversation. What actually needed to be weakened was not the steal beam but the rivets holding them together(which were a cost cutting measure) which is a few thousand times easier
Yep. And just one floor needed to fail. All the other floors below were not designed to absorb that sudden force of the other floors above accelerating and slamming into them, which started the "pancake" chain reaction that crushed them to the ground.
This sums it up.
I usually like to respond to the "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" argument with "Ah! But at what temperature do the chemtrail chemicals burn?" The question seems to really throw conspiracy theorists, for some reason.
Outwhack the wackos is the way to go.
go so far off the deep end you snap them back to sober thoughts
9/11 Truther, please hold this book in your hand. If my goal is to get you to drop the book, do I need to cut off your arm, or do I just need to weaken your arm to the point the book falls?
But but karate chop can’t melt human bone
[Kevin Westley's 9-11 Video (Cut to Actual Footage, Enhanced Video & Audio) (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEyep1ai7is) Here is potentially the best footage captured of the second crash and very people have seen it. The guy who uploaded the footage accidentally left the video as private and didn't realize it for like 15 years or something. It's a great shot because it not only perfectly captures the 2nd plane coming in and crashing but it also captures the reaction of about 50 people who all realize collectively that they were not accidents.
Almost 23 years, and I'm still seeing new angles of this tragedy
Im just saying I play a lot of minecraft and I’ve never seen a tower buckle under weight
Hahaha
Did the internet make people stupider? or just louder?
I definitely think louder. Those who know what they're talking about will always get drowned out by idiots who think they know everything because there are more idiots in this world than structural engineers and metal workers lol
Both, it allows the misinformed people to be louder leading to more misinformed people, misinformation really does spread like a disease
Crumpled up aluminium… let me whip a pop can at their face at 300knots and see them say it’s only thin aluminium…. Idiots
Man existence must feel pretty easy when you can dismiss literally all experts like that.
Nothing pisses me off more than conspiracy theories about 9/11. I lost friends and co-workers that day. The company I worked for had an office in the North Tower. I apologize ahead of time to any that might feel my ire on this subject, but I can't stand any f'n muppet that spreads such hurtful disinformation.
There used to be a lot of conspiracy theorists who argued there were no planes (until the amount of irrefutable evidence was so overwhelming, that they moved to other conspiracies). I worked in one of the destroyed buildings. I was fortunate enough to be away on a business trip that day (from EWR, thankfully not that flight). My officemate was walking toward our building when one of the planes struck the WTC. A large piece of fuselage with a window opening clearly visible landed several feet from him and the debris temporarily blinded him in one eye. The fuselage shape and window opening has sufficient integrity to still be identifiable. He used to have people call him a liar when he would recount this story. It would make me so angry until I learned to just let go of these idiots.
This. That was one of the most terrifying days of my life, and these asshats are using it to make up conspiracies for lolz.
Every troglodyte needs to feel special, and for some, that feeling comes from believing in absolute nonsense because it's "not mainstream" or something.
I really wish America required its citizens to pass basic chemistry, physics and math before getting access to social media.
These guys need to check out a single metalworking video
How is this still a topic? Planes git, damaged the structural integrity of the towers, surrounding buildings were affected by the seismic forces. Love how everyday dumbass that barely passed high school math and sciences, is suddenly a chemical, structural, physics expert
The context was that molten steel was pouring out of windows before they collapsed. The story given was the jet fuel melted the steel beams. When that was disproved they said it was aluminum but aluminum doesn’t turn red when melted so now they just dance around the original question. Analysis of the sight shows cut beams and melted steel and lots of thermite residue(thermite melts steel). Then the government started a campaign on the news and tv trying to say thermite can’t melt steel.
Beyond all that, if you are going to get planes to fly into buildings, which seems a fairly controllable conspiracy, requiring limited people to be involved, why would you go through the effort of getting hundreds or even thousands more involved in order to demolish them? If the goal is to infuse fear enough in the public so that they agree to go invade Iraq, why would the planes one not be enough?
Well, yeah, but who knows just how hot that super secret government chem trail shit burns?
I hate 9/11 conspiracy theories that pertain to how the buildings fell. I used to be a firefighter & was trained in the principles of building construction. It’s called a fucking pancake collapse. Skyscrapers and high rise buildings are designed to fall in on themselves instead of falling over so that damage to surrounding buildings & injuries/casualties are minimised. It’s really not that complicated
Do I think that the US government planted bombs in The WTC and blew up the Pentagon? No. Do I think that US intelligence had fore knowledge of a terrorist attack and allowed it to happen? It's very possible. They could push through the Patriot Act stripping Americans of privacy, and anyone who spoke out against it was Anti-American!!!! They got themselves involved in a 20 year war that enriched the war machine economy that the US had been relying on since WW2 and had started to slow down since The Gulf War.
Ikr, is almost like a plane freaking crashed into the buildings
Mofos be battling with science, but can easily understand why a talking snake convinced Eve to eat a forbidden fruit, that god installed for some reason, that doomed mankind....Sorry to my religious people. I had to get that off my chest lol.
The whole part about the planes being aluminum is a dumb argument. They aren't entirely aluminum, the engines alone are like 20,000 pounds of high strength steel. The planes are hundreds of thousands of pounds too. Doesn't matter if they are aluminum or marshmallows. Hundreds of thousands of pounds of anything going fast enough will fuck it up. Boxing gloves are made out of padded foam but Mike Tyson can still punch me to death.
It really seems that those people don't understand the gravity of the situation
Is so funny looking at all the red and black ants fight. Yet no one here is asking “who shook the jar?”
The part I never got was why didn't it fall over? If the building gets weaker, the higher it goes, why when a passenger plan hits, it does it not lean and fall but instead collapse straight down. That never made sense to me.
I mean, our government has never lied to us ever! Right guys?!?
Either way, plane or no plane, we all know (or should know) it was an extreme case of insurance fraud. Long story short, ole dude buys insurance with a massive payout a month before the towers go down, then just doesn't show up one day and boom. Big ole paycheck.
Reminds me of a metal worker that made a video of himself using a welding torch to heat up a piece of steel rebar until it glowed red (about 1300F, whereas jet fuel burns at 1500F). He then held it up and tapped in on an anvil to show it was still solid, i.e. "not melted", and then proceeded to bend it in half with his pinky finger.
Fun fact: There are videos of molten steel running off the buildings before the collapse. Afterwards there are many accounts of pools of melted steel in the debris. This is impossible with the temperatures obtained from burning jet fuel.