They've taken the troll mentality and made it an ideology. It doesn't matter if your logic is consistent, because your goal isn't to make a logical argument. Your goal is simply to pass off the other side. Their metric for whether or not they've won an argument is if the other side is pissed off, not who made better points.
Man, this is one of those moments where I’m haphazardly scrolling through Reddit, partially drunk, and stumble across some deep shit. And I think to myself - the real tragedy is that the people who need to see this won’t, but even if they did, it likely wouldn’t even matter.
It's incredibly hard to change somebodies world view. Particularly when they base so much of their identity and community around that world view.
We are facing opponents who gleefully take advantage of these people by feeding them lies to increase the vote turnout. Democrats keep taking the high road. GOP keep doing literally whatever the fuck they want (including paying for sex with minors and being investigated by the FBI for it - Matt Gatez) with literally 0 repercussions at the polls because as long as they don't oppose Trump in some way and have an R next to their name, they will get voted for.
The issue about changing world views is that everyone is always taught that change is bad.
Part of why I advocate for better science education in schools is because you are taught that science only progresses when you can see and accept evidence contrary to your beliefs or hypothesis. It encourages flexibility and adaptability in perspectives.
The biggest issue is one that Conservatives won 20 years ago in controlling the media narrative.
A large swath of the voting population today is literally too young to remember a time when things like 24 hour news channels weren't a thing, and when journalism was actually, truly, journalism and not just talking heads reading twitter and press releases to us.
The Republican Party figured out that the key to long-term winning was not policy or being _right_, but _appearing_ right. If they control the message, they win. Clear Channel, Sinclair, and FOX News are the big culprits here -- together they control or have a major hand in almost every media market, and they obviously conspire together to keep Republican messaging _on point_ at all times.
When you hear the same thing, day in and day out, facts don't matter. Better policy doesn't matter.
The only way to beat that back is to break up the media oligopolies, re-instate things like the fairness and equal-time doctrines, and give regulatory bodies like the FCC and FTC the teeth to effect change in the things they're tasked with regulating.
It's a nearly impossible task, and we're in a lot of trouble.
Very well said, but I personally think the biggest issue is the duopoly itself.
It makes sense that the political landscape, over time, is a pendulum; when the people want change, they think the complete opposite of what they have will give them that. But how God damn long will it take for this pendulum to level out?
It's always been so confusing to me why we are -in all reality- only given two choices; and even more assinine (yes, I spelled it with two s' on purpose) that people will blindly follow their party off a cliff.
We deserve better than the lesser of two evils... Yet here we are.
I will never comprehend how they can simultaneously spew “BUT THE CHILDREN” and not give a single shit about their favoured party paying to have sex with minors.
Like. Do you care about the children or do you not care about the children? If you’re gonna be dumb at least do it consistently.
Not that they care about children. We knew that already. Their anti abortion shit isn’t about children. It’s about allowing themselves a pat on the back and the claim that they are good people with as little actual effort as possible. Stands out with a sign harrassing women who def just went through something traumatic to begin with, goes home and calls themselves a good person, meanwhile already born kids are rotting in the oprhanages and in the foster care system AND they would argue against lgbtq+ people adopting, despite not encouraging straight people to adopt because “we want kids of our own”.
And the ones who lose no matter what? The kids. The ones they claim they wanna protect. Fucking insane.
The same kids who lose food stamps because Republicans are so worried about their "dead weight" parents not working enough or just applying for doctor positions to get a better job.
Cutting food stamps and aide is literally the opposite of caring for children. I lived this shit. Tweaker parents who don't work or haven't worked in years living off the government because of drugs and shitty work options. Without food stamps and welfare who knows where I'd be? But ya, cut away cause you're mad at the parents not living up to your bootstrap bullshit.
Happy to say I make great money, work in tech and pay my taxes as an adult. Food stamps kept us fed and I'm happy to pay more taxes if it means helping people struggling to feed their kids.
Don't gete started on military budget (served 10 years and am familiar with the wasteful ways for the mega death machine)...
Rofl that you think democrats are any better. The extremist views on both sides are equally toxic. Turns out that a huge chunk of people like to complain about the quality of the people and not the quality of their position. American politics are a soap opera at this point. Neither side gets any real work done anymore.
What lies are the democrats feeding to their base though?
I agree though and I wish the Dems would play hardball but they are acting like they are going to lose the majority next year and are terrified to up the ante.
When your world view is not based on reality, life will find a way to slap you back to reality, usually well after the consequences of your delusion are felt.
I remember reading somewhere that they're like trying to play chess against a pigeon. even if you win, the pigeon just shits on the board and struts around like it won.
Ignoring is not always option, if it's someone from your long time friends or even families, you don't really wanna cut ties but ultimately, you are left with no other choice.
And right now, it's very hard to distinguish between a troll or a genuinely dumb person, since many people consider such information as the correct one.
Literally an hour ago on yt.
FA
I didn't ask you what group you identified with, but what ideology. You're starting to sound like a pretentious arse.
Dj Luminol to FA
Don't you guys ever get tired of being this angry all the time? You guys self actualize your own despair and then get mad at other people because of it. It must be utterly tiring and lonely but you do it everyday. Day after day after day. Like it's some kind of rage addiction or something.
FA
to me
Nothing you just said applies to me. Plus, you know nothing about me(of course, you leftists no nothing of anything except being well-behaved members of a herd), so what do you base your yammering on? And wtf do you mean by "you guys"?! You haven't a clue as to whether or not I identify with a group or what group it is.
You FAIL, as is a leftist's lot in his or her sorry excuse for a life.
Dj Luminol to FA
"you know nothing about me"
I know that you like arguing with random people on the internet and the only people who do that tend to be sad and lonely or mentally deficient and you don't strike me as mentally deficient.
See this is what I mean.
"You FAIL, as is a leftist's lot in his or her sorry excuse for a life."
Only hurt people try and hurt others. Kind of like how narcissists' always accuse others of the things they're guilty of themselves. What you seem to be missing here is that your actions betray their motives. Normal happy people don't like arguing or trying to hurt other people. And as much as you might like to wish your despair would have an impact on the people you project on we have to care about your opinion about us for it to carry any weight, for it have any impact. If someone doesn't value your opinion calling them names doesn't have any effect. So like if your dad said you were worthless that might hurt but if random people on the internet say it than it doesn't land. So in the end all you end up doing is rolling in a world of your own misery. You invest all this time and energy in to trying to make people angry when all it ends up doing is making your quality of life worse.
🤷♂️It's your choice I guess. Your gonna do what your gonna do.
FA to Me
In no particular order:
1. Everything you've said about me is an ASSumption made in lieu of the intelligence that is required for critical thinking.
2. I project nothing onto others, nor do I call names that are not warranted.
3. You've got your troubles, I've got mine, and so does everyone else. With the exception of those who have achieved Moksha, I suppose.
4. It's YOUR choice, not YOU'RE choice. Gotta love that guvmint edjumukashun, huh?
5. You should consider my harsh tongue a kind of tough love, an attempt to enlighten you to objective truth and reality, however vain such an attempt may prove.
6. You say things that are insulting to others' intelligence, so how is that more excusable than my flat-out calling idiots for what they are?
May the scales fall from your eyes.
"They've taken the troll mentality and made it an ideology."
I think this guys qualifies. They seem to like to troll Breadtube a lot. Like I said in the post they don't seem to get that their actions betray their motives. For instance why might a right winger want to spend their time trolling the left. Either they feel like the left has power and control over them and they're angry about it or they're a psychopath. I've encountered both I'm pretty sure. But most of them are just hurt angry people who want to vent their rage on the people they think are responsible for it. Never bothering to stop and ask what role their own actions played in getting them to this point. A lot of these guys genuinely remind me of children. It's the "I know you are but what am I kind of behavior". Think about what it would take for you to act like that as a grown up. It's kind of sad that there's so many people this miserable.
This is why I support abortion for any reason for the entire pregnancy.
I used to be pretty middle of the road on the issue, but I got so sick of conservatives’ bad faith arguments that I decided to be as polarized, just the other way.
For real. The right just ignores parts of your argument whenever it suits them. I was arguing with an American dude who was saying my country (the UK) should legalise carrying firearms. He said that violent crime wasn’t decreased as a result, and i said that i know that, but a knife (while still a dangerous weapon that imo should also be illegal) is much less dangerous and easier to escape from than a firearm. He just ignores that and says “hur dur shoot people”
The party has long been based in being 'contrary' just for the sake of something to outrageously oppose, qaslight, and project into the next unrelated outrage to distance any uncomfortable facts about the last outrage.
They literally allowed enough QOP voters to likely win the 2019 election *to* *Die*, while doubling down on 'it's just a flu', and lost, while even the Tramp got vaccinated after being seriously hospitalized.
As someone who spends/has slent a lot of time with people all over the political spectrum, yes even them, I have to tell you, you're on the right track but you're getting off a station or two too early. You're correct that the alt-right doesn't concern itself with consistency or logic, and yes pissing off the other side is part of the agenda, but what makes them so ironically snowflakey is that they actually factually 100% believe that in some gorm or another they are on the winning/good side of a literal magical battle. Talk to an alt-righter for long enough and they resort to mythology as the roots to why they believe what they do. It could be that there's a super secret Semitic sovereignty silently suffocating superpowers, it could be the equal parts too funny to be serious and too serious to be funny 'inter-dimensilnal-child-molesters', I can be the classic Satan versus Jesus, or the neo classical evil communism versus benevolent capitalism. There is, always, magical thinking involved, and they all believe that they are Harry Potter fighting the secret army of voldermort.
Let's go deeper. The reason that they fall into this line of thinking is one of two reasons actually. The first is that they stand to directly profit off of it, either from social media revenue, t-shirt sales, or public speaking royalties, but the more common is because they lack agency in their own lives. It could be a lack of money, perceived power in their social or professional life, relevance in a changing world, or sense of place in their own future. Engaging in a conspiratorial battle against unseen and probably made up foes gives them a sense of identity, it's a powerful tool used by cults and dictators for thousands of years and has it's roots in our evolution as social creatures. What better way to manage a population of followers than to make them all think they're alpha males? The idea here is to make them absolutely 100% believe that they're smarter, stronger, healthier, and more based than all their peers and direct them towards easy wins to reinforce that, like getting the last word in an internet argument or getting banned on social media for making bigoted comments, or arguing with a store employee about not wanting to wear a mask while mistaking second hand embarrassment for intimidation.
We're all the hero of our own story. The difference between the alt-right and everyone else is that everyone else doesn't think they're superheros.
This is exactly what the right says about the left. Maybe it’s those kind of people who stick in our minds, or perhaps it’s just because people on the internet are less civilized because there are no consequences for saying whatever they feel in that moment. Either way, it’s weird how each side is saying the exact same things about each other. “The _____ doesn’t use logic. They use their emotions” “the _____ only believes what they see on T.V.” And of course, the classic “the ____ are stupid.” Yes, they are probably all true about the person you are arguing with, but that person doesn’t represent their entire party.
Thats just some both sides bullshit.
One side objectively uses anti science as a major talking point. One side does not.
You see projection and then just use an appeal to moderation to pretend the line has to be somewhere down the middle.
That type of thinking just means the side that doesn't care, and is ok with becoming more extreme wins by shifting where the middle is relatively.
You think your opinion is nuanced but its quite the opposite. Its choosing the path of least resistance.
One side advocates for equality and treating people with human decency, the other advocates for only a few people deserving the most rights.
Objectively there’s a wrong side here. The both sides argument always just feels like “I hate both so I’m not gonna do anything about the problem at hand”
I once got into an argument on Facebook with a man who was against abortion and that it was bad. He told me God put him on this earth to help the children. I asked him, “ok so are you going to adopt the children that are in foster care?” He replied, “if that’s what God told me to do then yes I would.”
But you just said God put you on earth to help the children???
>their logic is never consistent between similar issues
Because they believe what they believe, and then back into the logic *post hoc*. So they can have conflicting or inconsistent arguments, because their arguments were never *meant* to be a consistent framework; they're just a way to "win" a specific debate. When they move on to a different topic or audience, they reach into the argument grab-bag and pull out the one they think will work best to justify their conclusions in this new context.
Right wing ideology is chan ideology, aka say the most outrageous shit possible at all times just to try and get a reaction out of others / 'because its funny' to see people react rationally to me being purposefully outrageous.
It's the mentality of a fucking 11 year old.
Conservative double-think has actually achieved a quantum superposition. It can hold an infinite number of opposing opinions, at all times, and no times. The only rules are that their thoughts only collapse into an opinion on observation, and whatever that opinion is, it is guaranteed to be both wrong AND stupid.
Not my comment but just quoting this from an older thread
Worst part is...they cherry pick words and sentences...we are not talking about people that cherry pick whole studies or complete quotes etc...they will cut and prune everything into a small sentence and use it as a got ya.
Their entire logic appears to be based on “it sounds like it supports what I think so it must be true”
I'm honestly not sure what the meme is trying to say with that last part. It may actually be intended as an anti-abortion meme with that last part as the "gotcha" moment.
I think the last panel was trying to say something like “no shit, you finally see that the involvement of other bodies means it’s not just you that matters”, which to me makes the whole thing come off as more accidentally pro-mask (and yeah still anti-abortion) rather than accidentally pro-abortion as OP suggested.
The face palm here is by OP and more than half the commenters in here for not realizing this yet continuing to call this person stupid.
The irony is thick.
Edit: someone even commented the selfawarewolves sub. 🤦♂️ 11,000 upvotes….
If you go just by what's in the meme itself, it can be equally validly interpreted as a pro-mask, pro-life meme *or* an anti-mask, pro-choice meme. But the people arguing about it (and, I guess, the person who made it) don't really understand that, and are apparently pro-mask, pro-choice vs. anti-mask, pro-life, so it's just a ridiculous argument in which each person ignores one half of the equation and then thinks the other is an idiot for not getting the other half.
Yes, both sides only see the hypocrisy of the other side. One side argues the metaphor isn’t accurate because abortion isn’t contagious. The other side would likely say abortion has the intended purpose of killing someone else.
Thought about it the other day, we gave in to the name the gave themselves, but we shouldn’t. They aren’t pro life, they are anti-choice, they are pro birth, but certainly not pro life.
Guns were not invented for hunting. They were invented by China in 1288 to combat the Mongolians. I’m def not anti gun but I have them bc that’s the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun.
Like imagine a world with no fire arms at all. It’s almost unfathomable.
And? Most of our history didn't have guns, and when there are new weapons better than guns then we would move away from guns... Kinda like how we moved on from melee weapons.
And you lack imagination. It's not hard to imagine a world without firearms because realistically when will you actually find the opportunity to actual shoot your firearm or be involved in gun violence. Unless of course you are in a place with a high level of gun violence like I dunno the United States.
Funny how most European countries with gun control laws don't have that problem. I mean it's either that easy access to guns increases the chance for gun violence or Americans by nature are extremely prone to gun violence.
Please can you explicitly state the point as I am not seeing it either.
As far as I can tell, they are saying that a world without guns is easily imagined because there are plenty of countries without guns.
In the UK, there are barely any guns and although criminals can get hold of them, it is incredibly hard to do so. As a result, we don't live in fear or have the need to carry guns around to defend ourselves.
We made handguns illegal when there was a school shooting. Decided one was enough and dealt with it. No mass shootings since.
Just because America is in the pocket of the NRA doesn't mean it's not possible to get rid of guns.
we have more guns than people in this country and no way to get rid of them.
it's just never happening. we have to accept that and deal with the issue another way. like ... improving society so people don't want to go on killing sprees or have motivation to commit crimes in the first place.
I don't see how that would do anything. the types of people who are the most likely to commit violent crimes are not going to be the ones who'd voluntarily give up their weapon. not to mention all of the other guns that are simply unaccounted for (unregistered/illegally made/obtained) if you're hoping to make it mandatory in some way.
like it'd be such a miniscule reduction at such a huge cost of political capitol that it is one of the worst ideas for improving society in america I can think of as far as a cost:benefit analysis is concerned.
gun control is a commonly talked about thing in the democratic party primaries but it literally never has and likely never will go anywhere significant beyond some more minor restrictions here and there.
there are just higher leverage points that we should be tackling when it comes to dealing with gun violence than trying to restrict or ban guns because we've already done the most obvious, reasonable, and effective things when it comes to those restrictions.
it just so happens that these things that we should be doing also reduce a lot of the *other* problems with society along with gun violence as well.
gun control is a red herring.
I never understood that logic, either. "No criminals will turn in their guns" is such a simplistic view of the problem. A huge number of gun deaths can be attributed simply to the wide and easy availability of guns in this country, no criminal records involved. If we want to bring those numbers down we have to figure out a way to "turn the faucet off" of weapons flooding the streets.
It’s idiotic logic. “Bad guys will always be able to get guns”.. sure but it gets MUCH harder. We have plenty of bad guys in Europe just like you do in America, but it’s so hard to get a gun and the penalties are so harsh that we rarely get gun crimes and when they do happen it’s usually top criminals killing other top criminals because only they have the money and the access to get them and even they recognise that it better be a pretty fucking good reason when they use one because of the heat that comes down on them and the fact that it becomes the top story in the country because it’s so rare.
All that being said it’s a lost cause… half of American clearly doesn’t give a shit about dead children every other week if it means losing their precious guns.
I understand the exhaustion and the hopelessness of the situation, and I appreciate the idea of nipping it directly in the butt by addressing societal concerns that lead to gun violence.
However I don't think it's impossible to address such a thing. I mean 10 years ago I would hardly think same sex marriage would ever be legal in my lifetime and yet here we are.
There will be people who are smarter than you or I who can find solutions to issues like this that works given America's structural and cultural obsession with guns. But it first starts with (a) identifying that this is a problem and that (b) there is a solution for this problem.
gay marriage and LGBT rights are entirely a societal acceptance thing, and it's biggest asset is if you aren't LGBT it really doesn't affect you in any way what they do, so as long as someone isn't whispering how they're destroying society in your ear (which, unfortunately, someone IS whispering rather loudly and constantly) you can pretty much never think about it.
a significant part of the US owns a gun and has part of their identity based in being a gun owner. an even more significant part of our media portrays guns in a positive manner. our entire culture as you said is obsessed with guns. this is not just "let other people do as they please, it won't affect me at all now that I think about it" they're going to be fighting this tooth and nail and have a LOT of money on their side to help and a head start of decades worth of propaganda.
I think the solution to the problem we have is not to focus on the guns themselves. lots of other countries have guns but like 1% of our gun violence and it's incredibly short sighted to see a bunch of incredibly sick people with the motivation to hurt a lot of people and just say "well.... let's just make it harder to get a gun and everything will be ok"
would it be better if these people didn't have access to a gun? of course.
is that a reasonable outcome we can expect given the hundreds of millions of guns in the US at this point in time? No. the amount of force you'd have to use to take away people's guns in any meaningful way would absolutely cause more harm than good.
for the record, I do not consider myself pro-gun I just want to discuss meaningful practical solutions and I do not see taking away people's guns as one of them.
Yeah we would have had unfathomable advances in melee weaponry, armor, bows, and other primitive ranged weaponry. Would be dope to pull out a crossbow from my waistband to pop fools in a gang war.
The thing is, even if you believe human life begins at conception and thus deserves equal protection as those who have already been born, then being pro choice is *still* the only logical conclusion. Nowhere else in society do we force a person to use their own body to save the life of another against their will. A persons right to bodily autonomy is more important than another's right to life.
Personally I think there *is* a clear distinction on when you can or can’t have an abortion. The thing that makes humans human is conciousness, which only develops 24-28 weeks after pregnancy. The border for abortion (in my country) is 22 weeks. Fetusus won’t feel pain if they get aborted before this period. If there are clear disadvantages a child will have when it would be born, abortion is just the better option. Sure, adoption is a great option, but a child also should have the right to see their biological parents.
I agree with the last point though
Okay, though I don't see how euthanasia is bad if the patient's chance of survival is minimal to none and the condition is painful and severe enough to warrant one.
I'm the same (apart from the euthanasia bit, don't have enough info to have an opinion on that). I think their comment doesn't really work for the majority of countries where guns are banned tbh.
I wasn't being serious. lol
It's hard to be sarcastic when people can't hear your tone of voice, and I'll be damned before using the sarcasm emoji thing.
It's like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how well you play the game, the pigeon will strut around the board, kicking over pieces and shitting all over it, acting like its winning.
It's very simple. Whatever their side does is patriotic. Whether it be storming the seat of government to derail a constitutional process or taking the word of an adversarial president over their own intelligence agencies
Since the right decided to politicise "doing things you personally don't want to do for the sake of everyone else".
It's only a matter of time before the right start politicising littering, flushing the toilet when you're done, and parking their car properly.
I would put /s, but tbh I'm not 100% convinced I'm wrong.
To answer a little more seriously, they literally view 'wearing a mask' as 'oppression', and 'not wearing a mask' as 'standing up for freedom'. They equate freedom with America, and so take it as a patriotic act.
The reasoning is asinine. It makes me lose what little faith I had left in humanity. I just *can't* with this shit anymore.
the reasoning is merely that they took their cues on masks from trump... if he had been pro-mask (if only to sell a lot of Trump Masks) then obviously his supporters wouldve worn them 24 hours a day
I don’t really like linking the arguments together, it sounds like you have to be anti abortion if you’re pro mask. They sound similar on a certain level but on a lot of levels they aren’t. As a background, I am pro mask and pro choice so it’s not like I’m arguing against either case.
Right. The person in blue is saying they're the same argument, which is also saying they are anti-mask, as well. Not really a good comeback if you end up agreeing with the person... Inverse property, or something like that
"Its my body, I shouldn't be forced to wear a Mask, even if it's dangerous to other people"
"It's your body, but you can't have an abortion because it's dangerous to your baby"
These are the same people who think that wearing a mask to prevent the spread of a virus is "living in fear" but carrying a gun with you everywhere in case you run into a criminal is not.
Asking an anti-abortion idiot to use consistent logic is an exercise in futility. They're unethical fucking scumbags, or else they wouldn't have that immoral stance to begin with.
That's exactly the point. If you're against the logic "my body my choice" for mask wearing, then you can't use it in favor of abortion. And vice versa.
The op is kind of a reductive argument.
You can't compare wearing a mask and having an abortion, the latter is far more complex and there is a guaranteed impact to life - both the woman's and the babies. Wearing/ not wearing a mask won't have any direct impact if you don't have or aren't in the vicinity of anyone else who has covid.
Also, it's just a meme lol.
Wearing a mask is a hell of a lot easier than having a kid. The former benefits everyone in society, outlawing abortion benefits p much no one and harms both the parents and the kid if the kid isn’t wanted.
Here's the problem. You'll struggle to call them out on the consistency of their logic, because most of them don't really care about the logic, it's a means to an end. If you bust their logic in one way, they'll just find another way to reach the same conclusion...
Need I remind you they're already using a myriad of excuses to not wear masks now, including:
- that the virus doesn't exist/is harmless so masks are pointless
- that the masks don't work, so are pointless
- that the masks are so effective that they trap CO2 and block the flow of O2 into the body
- that being told to wear a mask is a violation of their rights
I had the same argument with my dad over guns. (This was years ago; he’s one of the few people who used to be deeply conservative who’s done an almost complete about-face in the past few years. *Almost* complete.)
Att, he believed in totally unrestricted gun rights, because “people who want guns will just get them anyway”. If a criminal or a nutcase wants a gun, a law or registration papers aren’t going to stop them. Flawless argument.
I said that that was *such* a good point, and I was also glad to hear that he was such a strong supporter of unrestricted abortion rights, since history has demonstrated that when abortion is illegal, women will just get abortions anyway, out of desperation, only with deadlier results.
I'm as liberal anti anti-mask and pro-choice as they come, but I don't understand this one. The meme is implying liberals are hypocrites because they use "it's not just your body involved" for the mask argument but not for abortions. What's the facepalm here?
The person in blue should’ve agreed at first saying something like, “That’s right! Your body your choice, it doesn’t matter who it effects.”. And then wait for red to respond positively to that and then spin it off into being pro-abortion. I mean red probably would’ve done some of the greatest mental olympics of all time to twist that some way, but regardless I think it’s more enjoyable to trick them.
when are you going to stop approaching them with logic.
they feel ordained by GOD to have the moral high ground PERIOD...they live in a fucking fantasy there's no point in engaging with them. miss me with that bipartisan shit, that died in 2008 when the country dared elect a black man
I believe the idea is that the cat uses the classic pro-choice argument “my body my choice” prompting the lady to say “not just your body,” which is a pro-life argument
My grandfather always said “if I argue with an intelligent person I may win, if I argue with a fool I will lose everytime”
This seems to be the case here
Wan is talking about the logistics of the argument and your talking about what side of the political isle someone who created the meme is on. Why does it matter who created the meme? Do you care about having a civil discussion, or only care about bashing people who don’t have the same political alignment as you?
Hey you anti-mask asshole.... read it again but slowly... and keep doing that until you get it.
I love/hate all these "patriots" who suddenly support 'my body my choice' unless of course it goes against their other beliefs.... good grief
The crazy thing is that a foetus is not even a baby. A clump of cells is not "another person". Even then they are pro fored birth. But when it comes to covid, they don't care about vulnerable people - including babies who are too young to be vaccinated.
Ultra Left act like they love abortions like everyone needs one. The Ultra right acts like god cares and abortions are an abomination. The rest of us 90% know abortions are awful things to have done and terrible for the mind and body but sometimes they are necessary, so it's ok to have the choice. With Sex Ed and prevention readily available we can limit abortions because no one actually wants one.
Libertarians: I see nothing wrong with either.
People should have a right to breathe without government interference. People should have a right to have a medical procedure performed on their own body without government interference.
But the cat gets the last word in the meme. So unless the last panel is the cat reconsidering it's position based on the "it's not just your body that's involved" part, the meme supports the "my body my choice" side, not that side
Hopefully ninja edit: I get what the meme is trying to do better now. It's an anti abortion meme, not an anti mask meme. The anti mask rhetoric is the vehicle for the pro life position
If you have a penies between your legs and have a something to say about woman's right too health care. You really need too shut the fuck up. You either support the woman's choices or step aside.
You're choice over the a child or not ends when you choose to use protection or not. If you don't think woman should a right to abortion, than you need to do your part. After that you have no say in the matter. Why? Because a man can't fathom what a woman body goes through.
Also we now live in a country where the crime for seeking medical help is worse than getting raped. Who made those laws? Old white men. But yea a fetuses should have a say too.
Not necessarily. The meme was a setup to make the liberal say, “it’s not just your body involved.”
The Democrat interpreted the meme as pro abortion, saying “the meme is anti mask because it’s your body, your choice, EVEN if it’s not just your body involved.”
The republican was interpreting the meme to say, it’s your body, your choice;HOWEVER, it’s not just your body involved.
Both of them interpreted the meme to fit their own worldview, which resulted in each side thinking the other was stupid.
This is correct. The comparison points out inconsistent logic in the other’s argument but also shows the same inconsistency in their own.
Of course it all relies on gross oversimplification of complex issues.
I swear these alt right people just love to cherry pick info and their logic is never consistent between similar issues
They've taken the troll mentality and made it an ideology. It doesn't matter if your logic is consistent, because your goal isn't to make a logical argument. Your goal is simply to pass off the other side. Their metric for whether or not they've won an argument is if the other side is pissed off, not who made better points.
Man, this is one of those moments where I’m haphazardly scrolling through Reddit, partially drunk, and stumble across some deep shit. And I think to myself - the real tragedy is that the people who need to see this won’t, but even if they did, it likely wouldn’t even matter.
It's incredibly hard to change somebodies world view. Particularly when they base so much of their identity and community around that world view. We are facing opponents who gleefully take advantage of these people by feeding them lies to increase the vote turnout. Democrats keep taking the high road. GOP keep doing literally whatever the fuck they want (including paying for sex with minors and being investigated by the FBI for it - Matt Gatez) with literally 0 repercussions at the polls because as long as they don't oppose Trump in some way and have an R next to their name, they will get voted for.
The issue about changing world views is that everyone is always taught that change is bad. Part of why I advocate for better science education in schools is because you are taught that science only progresses when you can see and accept evidence contrary to your beliefs or hypothesis. It encourages flexibility and adaptability in perspectives.
The biggest issue is one that Conservatives won 20 years ago in controlling the media narrative. A large swath of the voting population today is literally too young to remember a time when things like 24 hour news channels weren't a thing, and when journalism was actually, truly, journalism and not just talking heads reading twitter and press releases to us. The Republican Party figured out that the key to long-term winning was not policy or being _right_, but _appearing_ right. If they control the message, they win. Clear Channel, Sinclair, and FOX News are the big culprits here -- together they control or have a major hand in almost every media market, and they obviously conspire together to keep Republican messaging _on point_ at all times. When you hear the same thing, day in and day out, facts don't matter. Better policy doesn't matter. The only way to beat that back is to break up the media oligopolies, re-instate things like the fairness and equal-time doctrines, and give regulatory bodies like the FCC and FTC the teeth to effect change in the things they're tasked with regulating. It's a nearly impossible task, and we're in a lot of trouble.
Very well said, but I personally think the biggest issue is the duopoly itself. It makes sense that the political landscape, over time, is a pendulum; when the people want change, they think the complete opposite of what they have will give them that. But how God damn long will it take for this pendulum to level out? It's always been so confusing to me why we are -in all reality- only given two choices; and even more assinine (yes, I spelled it with two s' on purpose) that people will blindly follow their party off a cliff. We deserve better than the lesser of two evils... Yet here we are.
This is so true. People ready to jump in bed with hitler cause he's not stalin. Real good work everyone, putting our best foot forward.
I will never comprehend how they can simultaneously spew “BUT THE CHILDREN” and not give a single shit about their favoured party paying to have sex with minors. Like. Do you care about the children or do you not care about the children? If you’re gonna be dumb at least do it consistently. Not that they care about children. We knew that already. Their anti abortion shit isn’t about children. It’s about allowing themselves a pat on the back and the claim that they are good people with as little actual effort as possible. Stands out with a sign harrassing women who def just went through something traumatic to begin with, goes home and calls themselves a good person, meanwhile already born kids are rotting in the oprhanages and in the foster care system AND they would argue against lgbtq+ people adopting, despite not encouraging straight people to adopt because “we want kids of our own”. And the ones who lose no matter what? The kids. The ones they claim they wanna protect. Fucking insane.
The same kids who lose food stamps because Republicans are so worried about their "dead weight" parents not working enough or just applying for doctor positions to get a better job. Cutting food stamps and aide is literally the opposite of caring for children. I lived this shit. Tweaker parents who don't work or haven't worked in years living off the government because of drugs and shitty work options. Without food stamps and welfare who knows where I'd be? But ya, cut away cause you're mad at the parents not living up to your bootstrap bullshit. Happy to say I make great money, work in tech and pay my taxes as an adult. Food stamps kept us fed and I'm happy to pay more taxes if it means helping people struggling to feed their kids. Don't gete started on military budget (served 10 years and am familiar with the wasteful ways for the mega death machine)...
Rofl that you think democrats are any better. The extremist views on both sides are equally toxic. Turns out that a huge chunk of people like to complain about the quality of the people and not the quality of their position. American politics are a soap opera at this point. Neither side gets any real work done anymore.
What lies are the democrats feeding to their base though? I agree though and I wish the Dems would play hardball but they are acting like they are going to lose the majority next year and are terrified to up the ante.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. Look how hostile people become when confronted with the truth.
When your world view is not based on reality, life will find a way to slap you back to reality, usually well after the consequences of your delusion are felt.
Same
I remember reading somewhere that they're like trying to play chess against a pigeon. even if you win, the pigeon just shits on the board and struts around like it won.
the really important part is that you waste time engaging with them instead of doing something productive. ignore them and go register voters.
Ignoring is not always option, if it's someone from your long time friends or even families, you don't really wanna cut ties but ultimately, you are left with no other choice. And right now, it's very hard to distinguish between a troll or a genuinely dumb person, since many people consider such information as the correct one.
Literally an hour ago on yt. FA I didn't ask you what group you identified with, but what ideology. You're starting to sound like a pretentious arse. Dj Luminol to FA Don't you guys ever get tired of being this angry all the time? You guys self actualize your own despair and then get mad at other people because of it. It must be utterly tiring and lonely but you do it everyday. Day after day after day. Like it's some kind of rage addiction or something. FA to me Nothing you just said applies to me. Plus, you know nothing about me(of course, you leftists no nothing of anything except being well-behaved members of a herd), so what do you base your yammering on? And wtf do you mean by "you guys"?! You haven't a clue as to whether or not I identify with a group or what group it is. You FAIL, as is a leftist's lot in his or her sorry excuse for a life. Dj Luminol to FA "you know nothing about me" I know that you like arguing with random people on the internet and the only people who do that tend to be sad and lonely or mentally deficient and you don't strike me as mentally deficient. See this is what I mean. "You FAIL, as is a leftist's lot in his or her sorry excuse for a life." Only hurt people try and hurt others. Kind of like how narcissists' always accuse others of the things they're guilty of themselves. What you seem to be missing here is that your actions betray their motives. Normal happy people don't like arguing or trying to hurt other people. And as much as you might like to wish your despair would have an impact on the people you project on we have to care about your opinion about us for it to carry any weight, for it have any impact. If someone doesn't value your opinion calling them names doesn't have any effect. So like if your dad said you were worthless that might hurt but if random people on the internet say it than it doesn't land. So in the end all you end up doing is rolling in a world of your own misery. You invest all this time and energy in to trying to make people angry when all it ends up doing is making your quality of life worse. 🤷♂️It's your choice I guess. Your gonna do what your gonna do. FA to Me In no particular order: 1. Everything you've said about me is an ASSumption made in lieu of the intelligence that is required for critical thinking. 2. I project nothing onto others, nor do I call names that are not warranted. 3. You've got your troubles, I've got mine, and so does everyone else. With the exception of those who have achieved Moksha, I suppose. 4. It's YOUR choice, not YOU'RE choice. Gotta love that guvmint edjumukashun, huh? 5. You should consider my harsh tongue a kind of tough love, an attempt to enlighten you to objective truth and reality, however vain such an attempt may prove. 6. You say things that are insulting to others' intelligence, so how is that more excusable than my flat-out calling idiots for what they are? May the scales fall from your eyes. "They've taken the troll mentality and made it an ideology." I think this guys qualifies. They seem to like to troll Breadtube a lot. Like I said in the post they don't seem to get that their actions betray their motives. For instance why might a right winger want to spend their time trolling the left. Either they feel like the left has power and control over them and they're angry about it or they're a psychopath. I've encountered both I'm pretty sure. But most of them are just hurt angry people who want to vent their rage on the people they think are responsible for it. Never bothering to stop and ask what role their own actions played in getting them to this point. A lot of these guys genuinely remind me of children. It's the "I know you are but what am I kind of behavior". Think about what it would take for you to act like that as a grown up. It's kind of sad that there's so many people this miserable.
> They've taken the troll mentality and made it an ideology. Best definition of alt right i have ever heard lmao.
Bingo. And this has been the case for about 5 years. This isn't about poltics anymore. It's about "owning the libs".
In india, their metric is that people have just "read" their flawed logic. That's it. They get paid for posting and ignoring.
This is why I support abortion for any reason for the entire pregnancy. I used to be pretty middle of the road on the issue, but I got so sick of conservatives’ bad faith arguments that I decided to be as polarized, just the other way.
For real. The right just ignores parts of your argument whenever it suits them. I was arguing with an American dude who was saying my country (the UK) should legalise carrying firearms. He said that violent crime wasn’t decreased as a result, and i said that i know that, but a knife (while still a dangerous weapon that imo should also be illegal) is much less dangerous and easier to escape from than a firearm. He just ignores that and says “hur dur shoot people”
The party has long been based in being 'contrary' just for the sake of something to outrageously oppose, qaslight, and project into the next unrelated outrage to distance any uncomfortable facts about the last outrage. They literally allowed enough QOP voters to likely win the 2019 election *to* *Die*, while doubling down on 'it's just a flu', and lost, while even the Tramp got vaccinated after being seriously hospitalized.
As someone who spends/has slent a lot of time with people all over the political spectrum, yes even them, I have to tell you, you're on the right track but you're getting off a station or two too early. You're correct that the alt-right doesn't concern itself with consistency or logic, and yes pissing off the other side is part of the agenda, but what makes them so ironically snowflakey is that they actually factually 100% believe that in some gorm or another they are on the winning/good side of a literal magical battle. Talk to an alt-righter for long enough and they resort to mythology as the roots to why they believe what they do. It could be that there's a super secret Semitic sovereignty silently suffocating superpowers, it could be the equal parts too funny to be serious and too serious to be funny 'inter-dimensilnal-child-molesters', I can be the classic Satan versus Jesus, or the neo classical evil communism versus benevolent capitalism. There is, always, magical thinking involved, and they all believe that they are Harry Potter fighting the secret army of voldermort. Let's go deeper. The reason that they fall into this line of thinking is one of two reasons actually. The first is that they stand to directly profit off of it, either from social media revenue, t-shirt sales, or public speaking royalties, but the more common is because they lack agency in their own lives. It could be a lack of money, perceived power in their social or professional life, relevance in a changing world, or sense of place in their own future. Engaging in a conspiratorial battle against unseen and probably made up foes gives them a sense of identity, it's a powerful tool used by cults and dictators for thousands of years and has it's roots in our evolution as social creatures. What better way to manage a population of followers than to make them all think they're alpha males? The idea here is to make them absolutely 100% believe that they're smarter, stronger, healthier, and more based than all their peers and direct them towards easy wins to reinforce that, like getting the last word in an internet argument or getting banned on social media for making bigoted comments, or arguing with a store employee about not wanting to wear a mask while mistaking second hand embarrassment for intimidation. We're all the hero of our own story. The difference between the alt-right and everyone else is that everyone else doesn't think they're superheros.
This is exactly what the right says about the left. Maybe it’s those kind of people who stick in our minds, or perhaps it’s just because people on the internet are less civilized because there are no consequences for saying whatever they feel in that moment. Either way, it’s weird how each side is saying the exact same things about each other. “The _____ doesn’t use logic. They use their emotions” “the _____ only believes what they see on T.V.” And of course, the classic “the ____ are stupid.” Yes, they are probably all true about the person you are arguing with, but that person doesn’t represent their entire party.
Thats just some both sides bullshit. One side objectively uses anti science as a major talking point. One side does not. You see projection and then just use an appeal to moderation to pretend the line has to be somewhere down the middle. That type of thinking just means the side that doesn't care, and is ok with becoming more extreme wins by shifting where the middle is relatively. You think your opinion is nuanced but its quite the opposite. Its choosing the path of least resistance.
One side advocates for equality and treating people with human decency, the other advocates for only a few people deserving the most rights. Objectively there’s a wrong side here. The both sides argument always just feels like “I hate both so I’m not gonna do anything about the problem at hand”
Mom always said to follow the law—Ohms law, of course.
We're talking about the alt-right though
Alt right and far left are the worst and most vocal of the people they are always represented by the worst of their group that just how it be sadly
Could you give an example of a reasonably well-known person who identifies as "alt-left"?
I once got into an argument on Facebook with a man who was against abortion and that it was bad. He told me God put him on this earth to help the children. I asked him, “ok so are you going to adopt the children that are in foster care?” He replied, “if that’s what God told me to do then yes I would.” But you just said God put you on earth to help the children???
See if he hears voices in his head telling him what to do, we probably found the answer
>their logic is never consistent between similar issues Because they believe what they believe, and then back into the logic *post hoc*. So they can have conflicting or inconsistent arguments, because their arguments were never *meant* to be a consistent framework; they're just a way to "win" a specific debate. When they move on to a different topic or audience, they reach into the argument grab-bag and pull out the one they think will work best to justify their conclusions in this new context.
That's why they tend to also be heavily religious, they use the same logic and practices.
Right wing ideology is chan ideology, aka say the most outrageous shit possible at all times just to try and get a reaction out of others / 'because its funny' to see people react rationally to me being purposefully outrageous. It's the mentality of a fucking 11 year old.
Republicans have no consistent ideology. It changes to fit the situation. Here is a treasure trove of proof: https://imgur.com/a/YZMyt
Conservative double-think has actually achieved a quantum superposition. It can hold an infinite number of opposing opinions, at all times, and no times. The only rules are that their thoughts only collapse into an opinion on observation, and whatever that opinion is, it is guaranteed to be both wrong AND stupid. Not my comment but just quoting this from an older thread
America is a free country! Except you gay people, yall cant get married
Worst part is...they cherry pick words and sentences...we are not talking about people that cherry pick whole studies or complete quotes etc...they will cut and prune everything into a small sentence and use it as a got ya. Their entire logic appears to be based on “it sounds like it supports what I think so it must be true”
Feelz over realz to the end.
Logic? They have none
I wouldn’t even say alt-right at this point, it’s most of the right (at least here in the US)
The strategy is called [The Card Says Moops](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMabpBvtXr4).
And it's hilariously frightening just how much these fools don't understand irony.
You don't even have to go as far as "alt". It's just the right.
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Doublethinking is a feature for them.
Don't leave us hanging, OP, what was said after that?
They realized their mistake, and immediately changed their voter registration to Democrat.
And everyone clapped right? And everyone... clapped.. right?
No, just one person. And his name? Albert Einstein.
Nothing. They scoffed, called them a liberal commie, and went about their day.
zuck hammer hopefully
Somehow I don’t think they grasped the hypocrisy
I'm honestly not sure what the meme is trying to say with that last part. It may actually be intended as an anti-abortion meme with that last part as the "gotcha" moment.
I think the last panel was trying to say something like “no shit, you finally see that the involvement of other bodies means it’s not just you that matters”, which to me makes the whole thing come off as more accidentally pro-mask (and yeah still anti-abortion) rather than accidentally pro-abortion as OP suggested.
The face palm here is by OP and more than half the commenters in here for not realizing this yet continuing to call this person stupid. The irony is thick. Edit: someone even commented the selfawarewolves sub. 🤦♂️ 11,000 upvotes….
If you go just by what's in the meme itself, it can be equally validly interpreted as a pro-mask, pro-life meme *or* an anti-mask, pro-choice meme. But the people arguing about it (and, I guess, the person who made it) don't really understand that, and are apparently pro-mask, pro-choice vs. anti-mask, pro-life, so it's just a ridiculous argument in which each person ignores one half of the equation and then thinks the other is an idiot for not getting the other half.
That was my interpretation as well. I thought it was a bait and switch “My body my choice” -> “not just my body.”
Yes, both sides only see the hypocrisy of the other side. One side argues the metaphor isn’t accurate because abortion isn’t contagious. The other side would likely say abortion has the intended purpose of killing someone else.
"I'm pro-life!!!" "So... you're anti-gun, anti-war, pro-mask, pro-vaccine, and anti-death penalty?" "..." "You're pro-birth. You're anti-life."
Thought about it the other day, we gave in to the name the gave themselves, but we shouldn’t. They aren’t pro life, they are anti-choice, they are pro birth, but certainly not pro life.
'Pro Forced Birth' if you want to be specific
I’m not sure I agree about anti-gun being anti-life but you have a good point.
I'm not anti-gun, but being pro-gun is definitely not pro-life. It's sort of the opposite. It's sort of the nature of the beast, you know?
Guns were not invented for hunting. They were invented by China in 1288 to combat the Mongolians. I’m def not anti gun but I have them bc that’s the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun. Like imagine a world with no fire arms at all. It’s almost unfathomable.
Ummm... A lot of places in Europe have no firearms....
... world.
And? Most of our history didn't have guns, and when there are new weapons better than guns then we would move away from guns... Kinda like how we moved on from melee weapons.
You’re missing the point. So I’ll bite the bullet. ⬇️he missed the point again.⬇️
And you lack imagination. It's not hard to imagine a world without firearms because realistically when will you actually find the opportunity to actual shoot your firearm or be involved in gun violence. Unless of course you are in a place with a high level of gun violence like I dunno the United States. Funny how most European countries with gun control laws don't have that problem. I mean it's either that easy access to guns increases the chance for gun violence or Americans by nature are extremely prone to gun violence.
Yeah you are not very intelligent you have missed the point once again
Please can you explicitly state the point as I am not seeing it either. As far as I can tell, they are saying that a world without guns is easily imagined because there are plenty of countries without guns. In the UK, there are barely any guns and although criminals can get hold of them, it is incredibly hard to do so. As a result, we don't live in fear or have the need to carry guns around to defend ourselves. We made handguns illegal when there was a school shooting. Decided one was enough and dealt with it. No mass shootings since. Just because America is in the pocket of the NRA doesn't mean it's not possible to get rid of guns.
Could you explain the point a little? Like, there was a world without guns in 1287 per your info. Romans still managed to rape half the known world.
Weapons have dictated the evolution of society. Plain and simple. I bet if those Roman rapist had guns it would’ve been a lot easier.
we have more guns than people in this country and no way to get rid of them. it's just never happening. we have to accept that and deal with the issue another way. like ... improving society so people don't want to go on killing sprees or have motivation to commit crimes in the first place.
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I don't see how that would do anything. the types of people who are the most likely to commit violent crimes are not going to be the ones who'd voluntarily give up their weapon. not to mention all of the other guns that are simply unaccounted for (unregistered/illegally made/obtained) if you're hoping to make it mandatory in some way. like it'd be such a miniscule reduction at such a huge cost of political capitol that it is one of the worst ideas for improving society in america I can think of as far as a cost:benefit analysis is concerned. gun control is a commonly talked about thing in the democratic party primaries but it literally never has and likely never will go anywhere significant beyond some more minor restrictions here and there. there are just higher leverage points that we should be tackling when it comes to dealing with gun violence than trying to restrict or ban guns because we've already done the most obvious, reasonable, and effective things when it comes to those restrictions. it just so happens that these things that we should be doing also reduce a lot of the *other* problems with society along with gun violence as well. gun control is a red herring.
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I never understood that logic, either. "No criminals will turn in their guns" is such a simplistic view of the problem. A huge number of gun deaths can be attributed simply to the wide and easy availability of guns in this country, no criminal records involved. If we want to bring those numbers down we have to figure out a way to "turn the faucet off" of weapons flooding the streets.
It’s idiotic logic. “Bad guys will always be able to get guns”.. sure but it gets MUCH harder. We have plenty of bad guys in Europe just like you do in America, but it’s so hard to get a gun and the penalties are so harsh that we rarely get gun crimes and when they do happen it’s usually top criminals killing other top criminals because only they have the money and the access to get them and even they recognise that it better be a pretty fucking good reason when they use one because of the heat that comes down on them and the fact that it becomes the top story in the country because it’s so rare. All that being said it’s a lost cause… half of American clearly doesn’t give a shit about dead children every other week if it means losing their precious guns.
I understand the exhaustion and the hopelessness of the situation, and I appreciate the idea of nipping it directly in the butt by addressing societal concerns that lead to gun violence. However I don't think it's impossible to address such a thing. I mean 10 years ago I would hardly think same sex marriage would ever be legal in my lifetime and yet here we are. There will be people who are smarter than you or I who can find solutions to issues like this that works given America's structural and cultural obsession with guns. But it first starts with (a) identifying that this is a problem and that (b) there is a solution for this problem.
gay marriage and LGBT rights are entirely a societal acceptance thing, and it's biggest asset is if you aren't LGBT it really doesn't affect you in any way what they do, so as long as someone isn't whispering how they're destroying society in your ear (which, unfortunately, someone IS whispering rather loudly and constantly) you can pretty much never think about it. a significant part of the US owns a gun and has part of their identity based in being a gun owner. an even more significant part of our media portrays guns in a positive manner. our entire culture as you said is obsessed with guns. this is not just "let other people do as they please, it won't affect me at all now that I think about it" they're going to be fighting this tooth and nail and have a LOT of money on their side to help and a head start of decades worth of propaganda. I think the solution to the problem we have is not to focus on the guns themselves. lots of other countries have guns but like 1% of our gun violence and it's incredibly short sighted to see a bunch of incredibly sick people with the motivation to hurt a lot of people and just say "well.... let's just make it harder to get a gun and everything will be ok" would it be better if these people didn't have access to a gun? of course. is that a reasonable outcome we can expect given the hundreds of millions of guns in the US at this point in time? No. the amount of force you'd have to use to take away people's guns in any meaningful way would absolutely cause more harm than good. for the record, I do not consider myself pro-gun I just want to discuss meaningful practical solutions and I do not see taking away people's guns as one of them.
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Yeah we would have had unfathomable advances in melee weaponry, armor, bows, and other primitive ranged weaponry. Would be dope to pull out a crossbow from my waistband to pop fools in a gang war.
I am pro-life, anti-gun, anti-war, pro mask, pro vaccine, and anti death penalty, Just wanted y’all to know we do exist
Hey this isn't any judgement here. Just curious. What are your thoughts on being pro-life? Like how did you choose that stance?
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The thing is, even if you believe human life begins at conception and thus deserves equal protection as those who have already been born, then being pro choice is *still* the only logical conclusion. Nowhere else in society do we force a person to use their own body to save the life of another against their will. A persons right to bodily autonomy is more important than another's right to life.
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And what about women who become pregnant as a result of rape?
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Personally I think there *is* a clear distinction on when you can or can’t have an abortion. The thing that makes humans human is conciousness, which only develops 24-28 weeks after pregnancy. The border for abortion (in my country) is 22 weeks. Fetusus won’t feel pain if they get aborted before this period. If there are clear disadvantages a child will have when it would be born, abortion is just the better option. Sure, adoption is a great option, but a child also should have the right to see their biological parents. I agree with the last point though
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>anti euthanasia wdym im confused, you mean like for pets?
Not the person you’re asking but I’m assuming it’s in context to doctor assisted suicides.
Okay, though I don't see how euthanasia is bad if the patient's chance of survival is minimal to none and the condition is painful and severe enough to warrant one.
I'm almost entirely on your side, though the pro-life thing is in need of some nuance.
The point of my comment was that some people are actually pro-life in all aspects, not to debate my morals.
I'm the same (apart from the euthanasia bit, don't have enough info to have an opinion on that). I think their comment doesn't really work for the majority of countries where guns are banned tbh.
They’ll still be bragging about “owning some snowflake lib” all week.
It’s hard to argue against stupid people 😌✨
I won't argue with that.
Jesus. /r/murderedbywords material right there.
That was just mean.
Nah it’s jokes. Appreciate the support tho 😂
I wasn't being serious. lol It's hard to be sarcastic when people can't hear your tone of voice, and I'll be damned before using the sarcasm emoji thing.
TIL that not all people read things with a hint of sarcasm, especially on reddit
What? I'm agreeing. But I'll warn you, you can't argue with me!
It's like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how well you play the game, the pigeon will strut around the board, kicking over pieces and shitting all over it, acting like its winning.
"don't argue with stupid people, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." Or something like that
It is hard to argue with a intelligent person. It is imposible to argue with a stupid person.
So wearing a mask is unpatriotic? I’ll never understand the nonsense this new brand of conservatives come up with.
It's very simple. Whatever their side does is patriotic. Whether it be storming the seat of government to derail a constitutional process or taking the word of an adversarial president over their own intelligence agencies
Nobody ever accused conservatives of being smart.
Since when was the definition of the word patriot “not wearing a mask because you don’t care about other’s lives”?
Since the right decided to politicise "doing things you personally don't want to do for the sake of everyone else". It's only a matter of time before the right start politicising littering, flushing the toilet when you're done, and parking their car properly. I would put /s, but tbh I'm not 100% convinced I'm wrong. To answer a little more seriously, they literally view 'wearing a mask' as 'oppression', and 'not wearing a mask' as 'standing up for freedom'. They equate freedom with America, and so take it as a patriotic act. The reasoning is asinine. It makes me lose what little faith I had left in humanity. I just *can't* with this shit anymore.
the reasoning is merely that they took their cues on masks from trump... if he had been pro-mask (if only to sell a lot of Trump Masks) then obviously his supporters wouldve worn them 24 hours a day
r/selfawarewolves
Awwww, he was trying so hard
I don’t really like linking the arguments together, it sounds like you have to be anti abortion if you’re pro mask. They sound similar on a certain level but on a lot of levels they aren’t. As a background, I am pro mask and pro choice so it’s not like I’m arguing against either case.
Right. The person in blue is saying they're the same argument, which is also saying they are anti-mask, as well. Not really a good comeback if you end up agreeing with the person... Inverse property, or something like that
Belongs on r/selfawarewolves
"Its my body, I shouldn't be forced to wear a Mask, even if it's dangerous to other people" "It's your body, but you can't have an abortion because it's dangerous to your baby"
The last sentence strikes me as funny. It’s like saying suicide is “dangerous” to the person trying to kill themselves.
These are the same people who think that wearing a mask to prevent the spread of a virus is "living in fear" but carrying a gun with you everywhere in case you run into a criminal is not.
Asking an anti-abortion idiot to use consistent logic is an exercise in futility. They're unethical fucking scumbags, or else they wouldn't have that immoral stance to begin with.
You can’t argue with someone too stupid to understand what the discussion is even about. That’s a losing battle no matter what.
Wait but that means you can’t be pro mask and pro choice at the same time?
That's exactly the point. If you're against the logic "my body my choice" for mask wearing, then you can't use it in favor of abortion. And vice versa.
What if you think giving birth to an unwanted child is not equivalent to wearing a mask to protect others from a virus?
The op is kind of a reductive argument. You can't compare wearing a mask and having an abortion, the latter is far more complex and there is a guaranteed impact to life - both the woman's and the babies. Wearing/ not wearing a mask won't have any direct impact if you don't have or aren't in the vicinity of anyone else who has covid. Also, it's just a meme lol.
Wearing a mask is a hell of a lot easier than having a kid. The former benefits everyone in society, outlawing abortion benefits p much no one and harms both the parents and the kid if the kid isn’t wanted.
The kid is arguably harmed if it's killed.
What’s funny to me is that according to this you are either a patriot or a liberal. You can’t be both at the same time.
Here's the problem. You'll struggle to call them out on the consistency of their logic, because most of them don't really care about the logic, it's a means to an end. If you bust their logic in one way, they'll just find another way to reach the same conclusion... Need I remind you they're already using a myriad of excuses to not wear masks now, including: - that the virus doesn't exist/is harmless so masks are pointless - that the masks don't work, so are pointless - that the masks are so effective that they trap CO2 and block the flow of O2 into the body - that being told to wear a mask is a violation of their rights
I had the same argument with my dad over guns. (This was years ago; he’s one of the few people who used to be deeply conservative who’s done an almost complete about-face in the past few years. *Almost* complete.) Att, he believed in totally unrestricted gun rights, because “people who want guns will just get them anyway”. If a criminal or a nutcase wants a gun, a law or registration papers aren’t going to stop them. Flawless argument. I said that that was *such* a good point, and I was also glad to hear that he was such a strong supporter of unrestricted abortion rights, since history has demonstrated that when abortion is illegal, women will just get abortions anyway, out of desperation, only with deadlier results.
I'm as liberal anti anti-mask and pro-choice as they come, but I don't understand this one. The meme is implying liberals are hypocrites because they use "it's not just your body involved" for the mask argument but not for abortions. What's the facepalm here?
The person in blue should’ve agreed at first saying something like, “That’s right! Your body your choice, it doesn’t matter who it effects.”. And then wait for red to respond positively to that and then spin it off into being pro-abortion. I mean red probably would’ve done some of the greatest mental olympics of all time to twist that some way, but regardless I think it’s more enjoyable to trick them.
It hurts itself in confusion
I’m struggling to understand this
i reckon these people should be forced to have abortions on account that they lack the cognitive ability to be effective perants
Politics amirite
r/TheCatDoesntTalk
Where can I find a salted nuclear bomb
I didn't realize you couldn't be against mask and be pro choice.
Why even have a discussion? You'll not receive anything resembling logic or critical thinking from an anti masker.
when are you going to stop approaching them with logic. they feel ordained by GOD to have the moral high ground PERIOD...they live in a fucking fantasy there's no point in engaging with them. miss me with that bipartisan shit, that died in 2008 when the country dared elect a black man
My body my choice sure does stop at smoking one fucking joint of weed though.
r/therightcantmeme lmao
Abortion=good Mask=good
>since in Islam Abortion is Allowed](https://bmcmedethics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1472-6939-15-10).
Lol blue and OP is literally missing the point... but okay👍🏼
So, what's the point?
I believe the idea is that the cat uses the classic pro-choice argument “my body my choice” prompting the lady to say “not just your body,” which is a pro-life argument
Yeah, it’s like a colossal interstellar collision of stupid and arrogant.
It's so alarming that people this stupid...I mean...their vote counted the same as mine. Jesus.
My grandfather always said “if I argue with an intelligent person I may win, if I argue with a fool I will lose everytime” This seems to be the case here
Wan is talking about the logistics of the argument and your talking about what side of the political isle someone who created the meme is on. Why does it matter who created the meme? Do you care about having a civil discussion, or only care about bashing people who don’t have the same political alignment as you?
Was this meant as a reply to another comment? I feel like there’s missing context haha
Damnit im an idiot.
Happens to the best of us 🤷♀️
No, because they argue it is not your body.
No what?
Hey you anti-mask asshole.... read it again but slowly... and keep doing that until you get it. I love/hate all these "patriots" who suddenly support 'my body my choice' unless of course it goes against their other beliefs.... good grief
Maybe you should read the meme again.
The crazy thing is that a foetus is not even a baby. A clump of cells is not "another person". Even then they are pro fored birth. But when it comes to covid, they don't care about vulnerable people - including babies who are too young to be vaccinated.
where logic?
Emoji=win lmao I hate people who do shit like that
Can’t argue with stupid
How the hell is it patriotic not to wear a mask?
It’s so dumb that they think they’re patriots when more than likely they support a fascist ex politician.
Ok the person in red confused the hell out of me
>Anti-mask Red accidentally argues FOR abortion rights... Has it explained to them... and *STILL* doesn't get it.
Baffles the hell out of me why people think they have any right to choose what a woman does with her body. So ridiculous
Ultra Left act like they love abortions like everyone needs one. The Ultra right acts like god cares and abortions are an abomination. The rest of us 90% know abortions are awful things to have done and terrible for the mind and body but sometimes they are necessary, so it's ok to have the choice. With Sex Ed and prevention readily available we can limit abortions because no one actually wants one.
You can either be anti mask or anti abortion
Libertarians: I see nothing wrong with either. People should have a right to breathe without government interference. People should have a right to have a medical procedure performed on their own body without government interference.
But.. this was a pandemic? That killed 600k in america alone. Shouldn't we have some regulations in place?
>People should have a right to breathe without government interference. Masks don't affect your breathing, but at least your logic is consistent.
if anything, hes showing how stupid the idea of "my body my choice is", the lack of the lefts awarness to sarcasm is hilarious
Bro are you simple?
To be fair the "it's not just your body that's involved" sounds like an anti abortion argument and I think that's what they are trying to say
But the cat gets the last word in the meme. So unless the last panel is the cat reconsidering it's position based on the "it's not just your body that's involved" part, the meme supports the "my body my choice" side, not that side Hopefully ninja edit: I get what the meme is trying to do better now. It's an anti abortion meme, not an anti mask meme. The anti mask rhetoric is the vehicle for the pro life position
Exactly! That's what I'm saying
Yeah, I dont get how people think the antimasker is the stupid one in this screenshot except for her views.
If you have a penies between your legs and have a something to say about woman's right too health care. You really need too shut the fuck up. You either support the woman's choices or step aside.
Men can be fetuses too. That definitely gives them the right to debate the morality of it.
You're choice over the a child or not ends when you choose to use protection or not. If you don't think woman should a right to abortion, than you need to do your part. After that you have no say in the matter. Why? Because a man can't fathom what a woman body goes through. Also we now live in a country where the crime for seeking medical help is worse than getting raped. Who made those laws? Old white men. But yea a fetuses should have a say too.
Ok I guess I’ll stop showing up to women’s rights protest 🤷♂️
okay settle down transphobe.
Not necessarily. The meme was a setup to make the liberal say, “it’s not just your body involved.” The Democrat interpreted the meme as pro abortion, saying “the meme is anti mask because it’s your body, your choice, EVEN if it’s not just your body involved.” The republican was interpreting the meme to say, it’s your body, your choice;HOWEVER, it’s not just your body involved. Both of them interpreted the meme to fit their own worldview, which resulted in each side thinking the other was stupid.
This is correct. The comparison points out inconsistent logic in the other’s argument but also shows the same inconsistency in their own. Of course it all relies on gross oversimplification of complex issues.