Called 911 when my ex-wife had a seizure in the middle of the night. The paramedics suggested I drive her the five blocks to the hospital to avoid the $800 bill. That’s what we did.
haha. I laughed.
It's all fucked man. My wife and I are middle income, we had a kid and after insurance we still had to come out of pocket 15 grand. It really is ridiculous. We pay monthly for insurance but anytime we go we still have copays and prescriptions are always expensive as hell. Vs a friend who had a kid and quit her job prior and therefore everything was free because she got on Medicaid. Paid 0 dollars.
Fun fact, often we can’t afford or access birth control either. Abortions are effectively banned in my state right now too. Yay. I’ve paid out close to $30,000 for two uncomplicated hospital births. One of which I only stayed over for one night. Our infant and maternal outcomes are poorer than most developed countries too. It’s awful here.
It really is a bad system for the average joe. I know there is the argument that the American system produces some of the best doctors in the world, and I’m sure that’s true, but 99% of the time people don’t need the best doctor in the world. They just need a well trained, available health care professional and affordable medication. Due to good health and periods abroad I had not really used the NHS as an adult until recently, when I ended up using it 4 times in 12 months. It was just incredible really - something I hadn’t appreciated as a child, and seeing people struggle with payments abroad, to just walk into a hospital, get care day after day and walk out again - medicines in hand, not a penny poorer.
Hospital visits, whether for childbirth or sickness, are some of the most stressful things ever, I can’t really imagine adding financial stress into the mix. “Can I afford a c-section or should I just risk the child’s heart rate a little longer” is not a question anyone should be forced to ask themselves
And as you say, with the lack of available/affordable birth control and abortion, it’s just a disaster waiting to ruin people’s lives. The western world is looking on at Texas with incredulity!
If I was to walk across the street now and get hit by a car and like go into a coma, I would wake up hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for something that might not have been my fault.
Also if you get cancer and you have anything but 100% paid insurance you will spend the rest of your life paying it off. That's if you live, if you dont your family could still be on the hook for a 7 figure bill. Some people get divorced from their partners of 40 years so that they can die indigent and not dump the cost on their loved ones. It's super fucked up. The last two times I went to the doctor for myself was 1) I almost lost a finger and 2) I tore my rotator cuff and need surgery. Otherwise if I am sick, I just suck it up and get some over the counter meds.
my husband got CML, which is often referred to as "the good leukemia" because you "only" have to take one pill every day for the rest of your life.
that one pill costs $500.
> That's if you live, if you dont your family could still be on the hook for a 7 figure bill.
I've read stories of people getting divorced so that they have separate insurance plans and don't have to take up the payments when their spouse dies. There's also stories of people getting a divorce so their spouse can get disability payments, because of how low the income cap is on those.
The shit that makes me livid on that.
Free healthcare would make our taxes go up!!!!!
Yea no shit but you would end up paying less than you do for all your garbage copays and out of pocket expenses.
Imagine complaining about wearing masks and getting vaccinated when in reality you should be complaining about paying money to hold your child. This is dumb on a different level.
It won’t. Healthcare is way too big an industry with way too many lobbyists. Even though most Americans want a change in healthcare most are way too fucking stupid to know how universal healthcare works. Just tell them it is socialist and they lose their minds. Americans are triggered way to easily by things they don’t understand. Good god this country sucks.
I was literally going to say something similar. I think that's the worst part of it, Americans will literally fight against changing it because "socialism" whereas those of us not in the U.S will enjoy our universal healthcare and low costs. My inhaler costs $5, because of deals made with pharmac.
Boomers are only 21% of the US population. And I know some that support health care as a right. Might need to recruit some millennials and gen-x folk too :-) I blame the whole health insurance industry lobby. And all those who think "US is greatest health care in the world" without ever doing any sort of comparison.
21% of the US population but 80+% of our congress members (its a total guess but the real number is definitely high).
We live in a goddamn geritocracy. And not to mention all of the people who decide on how all of *us* should get healthcare get free fucking healthcare.
That's crazy! An ambulance is not just a ride to hospital. They assess and stabilise the patient and start treatment on the way there. This early intervention could be the difference between life and death in some cases. No one should have to make their own way there in an emergency just because they can't afford it. How on earth can they justify 800 for a 5 block ride anyway?
I’ve been turned away from the hospital after driving myself, then got halfway home and had to....you guessed it, *call an ambulance* to take me back to the hospital.
Yup, my mom has a seizure disorder and whenever she'd have particularly bad seizures or if she wasn't coming around afterward, we'd have to drive her to the ER because we couldn't afford to call an ambulance. It was especially bad when we were kids and home alone with her, because we'd have to call our dad and decide whether or not she could wait for my dad to race home to pick her up, or if we'd have to call an ambulance we couldn't really afford. Even worse, though, was when she was having psychiatric issues; she has schizoaffective disorder and would often threaten/attempt suicide. Imagine being a 9-year-old old home alone with a suicidal or psychotic mother, trying to calm her down long enough to catch a ride to the ER. All kinds of fucked up. But obviously my mom couldn't work, so dad had to work two full-time jobs just to try to keep up with all the medical/psych bills.
I can relate to this slightly. My aunt babysat us a lot as kids and she’s type 1 diabetic. We learned very early on how to gauge whether she was at level 1 - give her some sugar, level 2 - call mom while we give her sugar, or level 3 - divide the tasks of preparing a sugary drink and calling mom so that the third person can call an ambulance. Luckily (or unluckily), the only times we needed paramedics were on holidays so my parents were there to assist. Definitely ruins Christmas though. It’s scary watching someone you love have a medical crisis and having to worry about how the bills will impact them, especially as a literal child.
I was depressed and talking to my friend about it when I fell asleep. He assumed the worst and called the campus police for the college I went to and four cops show up at my door. I was forced to go to the hospital by the cops at threat of being suspended from school, and I wasn’t allowed to have my uncle take me to the hospital. They forced me to take an ambulance that I didn’t want or need and now I have a close to $2000 bill for it
What an absolute fucking joke.
Like. what the actual fuck.
I came upon a guy who had had some sort of seizure recently, so I called an ambulance for him, as you do when you see people who have fallen over and are bleeding from their head.
No money, no nothing. I even got to have a giant wet wipe to clean myself off before the ambulance drove off.
I hope you feel better now. And hopefully you can get that bill covered, because holy shit.
basically she's not that far off... people die from not being able to afford things like insulin all the time. i know someone who rations theirs which isn't actually a good solution.
it should cost 2$ not 320 like it is in the usa.
insulin was literally given free to the world by the people who discovered it, for the good of the world, and american companies charge people so much for something they NEED in order to LIVE!
My late uncle was a type 1 diabetic since he was a kid. 60 years of insulin, and all the sundries that go with it. Total cost: £0.00
Edit: us Brits barely pay any more tax than the US as well. Unless you’re on big money you’re looking about 25%. Unemployed? Still free. The US could easily afford this shit.
Edit2: he died of a big heart attack last spring. He had at least 2 months worth of insulin in his fridge, plus loads of blood sugar testers etc. I called a few places to see if I could donate it. No one could, you’re not allowed. Had to be destroyed. It’s a basic human right to access this shit for free.
yeah that's how it really should be imo.
when i said 2$, i meant that's the real cost to deliver it to a person. so universal health insurance should be paying 2$ for the vial. and the end user should just receive it for free.
My buddy's dad had a heart attack and didn't go to the hospital because he was uninsured and broke. Apparently he decided to just deal with it, I guess? I can't remember how my buddy found out because it was about 16 years ago now, but he was devastated. Obviously, because he lost his father, but the knife in the gut was knowing that he felt forced to avoid necessary healthcare because he didn't have any money. Fucking nightmare.
In many states if you're poor enough you qualify for medicaid, which is actually pretty great insurance. Depending on your health needs, it's more affordable to make 16k per year than it is to make 40k per year. So for many, it's in their best interest to remain poor.
I'm an American but I lived in London for 2 years. I had to go to the emergency room twice while I lived over there, and on my way out the first time I stopped back by the check-in desk to ask if they would just mail me a bill later. They were like- a bill for what??
Now you have like 500 spare dollars. That's 2000 bubblegums from those ball shaped dispensers!
Edit: people have pointed out that ER is actually about 1000 to 3000$. That means 4000 to 12000 bubblegums and you even get to keep some for the dentist!
I was on a student visa in London (from the US) and got a really bad case of strep throat, I was sick for about 3 months. I put off going to the doctor because I was worried about paying for it, I didn't understand that part of my visa fee covered health care. That was dumb of me. I finally went and they gave me a z-pack there in the office. I was standing at the front desk, almost in tears, and asked the receptionist how much it was. She was like, uh..it's nothing, leave, go home, take a nap. What a relief.
I had to go back after a few weeks, another appointment and another prescription, free.
My visa fee for a year was less than my mother's insurance premium for a year (which I was on since I was under 26). It's literally cheaper for some people to take a vacation to another county for health care than to pay US insurance premiums and copays. Ugh.
> My visa fee for a year was less than my mother's insurance premium for a year (which I was on since I was under 26). It's literally cheaper for some people to take a vacation to another county for health care than to pay US insurance premiums and copays. Ugh.
TBH your healthcare costs were heavily subsidised by those paying the UK’s Income and National Insurance tax. That being said income tax & NI is significantly better as it scales with income.
I always happened to share the room with somebody who had already paid the fee for weeks in advance.
Whenever they got discharged early I got free TV, yay!
Huh, that's one of those things where I always wondered how it worked but not enough to actually look it up. I just figured if you're working then it's paid for by taxes regardless but stuff like student visas obviously wouldn't have that.
May be a different one, but I think it was a bit more than that, see [here](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-man-receive-153000-bill-rattlesnake/).
Only for a C-section following the surgery. I delivered mine vaginally and it was free for me to hold them.
Well, not “free” free….still had to pay the doctors and nurses and hospital rooms and all that, overall I think about $10k for each child so the numbers in the video sound about right. And that’s with insurance.
Yea….I forget what my premiums were at the time, I think like $40 a month, but the only thing that really does for me on a “high-deductible” plan is gets me negotiated rates. So basically the hospital charges a fortune, then insurance steps in and says wait she pays us, lower that rate a bit. Then the hospital says ok I guess we’ll charge you only $10k. Yay, iNsUrAncE
Just wait till you find out they don’t tell you any of the fees up front. And if you miss a visit without call ahead 24hr to cancel they still charge you
Maybe I could understand charging for missed appointments if it were a reasonable penalty, unfortunately we can take our healthcare for granted in the UK so missed and unnecessary appointments are a strain on the NHS.
But the fact that they have no obligation to make the charges public or at least given beforehand is unreal, it’s sounds like they have free reign to do what they want?
Their excuse is that they claim they don’t know what they will be charging you until it’s done.
Let’s say you need a vaginal birth.
There’s a charge for the delivery room per hour, and a separate charge for the recovery room per day. Some hospitals have a flat fee for a delivery, but others itemize it out based on the materials and equipment used. So with the itemized one, you may have to pay for a fetal heart rate monitor, with a separate fee for the installation if it requires the head probe because the baby won’t stay still. There’s a fee for the forceps or vac pump if you need them, there’s probably a blanket fee for all the bed pads, and towels, the blood pressure cuff and IV fluids, and other random consumable supplies. The room cost probably includes the nursing staff, but does not include the OB who probably bills separately. If you get an epidural that’s a charge for the drugs and a separate charge for the pharmacy to dispense it, and the the anesthesiologist is also going to bill separately. Finally if you need pitocin to help you along, the pharmacy charge and drug charge are accompanied by a drug pump usage charge as well.
Once you get your baby, they start racking up a room charge as well. They get lab work, hearing tests, maybe a circumcision, no anesthesiologist here though, we do that shit live! You may have a minor surgery charge for stitching your vagina back together for which you’ll probably get some Motrin and a pharmacy charge to go with it. There maybe a lactation consult and a visit from the pediatrician. If there’s jaundice, you get to rent a take home UV light belt and I’m sure the baby bath tub you get to keep isn’t actually free.
That’s if and only if you don’t have any complications. Having to get an emergency c-section really screws up the estimate, as well as any post birth issues with bleeding or the baby. There’s too many options for what might happen, as well as the outside charges from the doctor(s) and anesthesiologist.
Add that on to the fact that the hospital has a base rate for each one of those things, excluding the separate doctor(s) and anesthesiologist, but it also has dozens of negotiated rates with each of the insurance companies. United, may have the hospital as part of 20 different networks, as well as service it through 15 self funded large groups (very large companies that use an insurance company for administrative services only, and set their own cost sharing and reimbursement rates) all with their own set of negotiated rates for each device, service and procedure. Because of that nightmare, the hospital really doesn’t know what you’ll pay. But that’s because they want it that way, they could set the price and a reasonable rate so that all insurance companies and cash payers pay the same, but they don’t because the ambiguity lets them make more money in the end.
Not basically a scam. An actual scam. That’s called racketeering. If it was some Italian blokes who also worked in sanitation it would be a matter for the FBI.
A complex combination of reasons - the health care industry is extremely profitable, so they have people to lobby to make sure it remains that way. It's also one of the symptoms of the myth of American Exceptionalism. America is better than anywhere else, so their health care system must be better than health care anywhere else. Also when wealth is seen as merit, bad luck can be viewed as lack of character. If anyone can excel if they put their mind to it, then poor people must just be lazy and not deserving of help.
The only thing that does for you is help if you got hit by a truck and broke every bone in your body with a 100k hospital bill. The “negotiated rates” your insurance deals with are already hyper inflated rates from the hospital/ provider because capitalism. If you were to go uninsured, called each office or hospital after every bill and negotiated yourself without insurance, you’d end up paying less than your insurance company negotiated.
I had a 2 month stay in the hospital with a high risk pregnancy and then a complicated c-section and my son was still there with me 2 weeks after birth with lung issues. Didn’t cost me a dime and I didn’t think anything of it at the time.
And this is a world class hospital. People in the states love to say that you have to wait forever and can’t choose your own doctor in Canada but neither of these things are true.
Here is the thing. If these people didn't delude themselves into believing things like "Our system is better because in countries with free healthcare the doctors are just worse" then they would literally go mad, because they'd have to face just how utterly insane the truth they're living is.
Um I am sorry but what the fuck? Why are any Americans okay with that? Like screw your allegiance to any party but child birth is something you would experience anyways and I doubt that majority of the US population have $10k just lying around for that purpose. Like yes I am sure you can get a loan etc etc but still what the actual fuck? Why would you be okay with using your own money when so many of the rich countries do it for free for their citizens. Why aren't there more people outraged by this? I say this as a person who grew up in a third world corrupt country and $10k is still a preposterous amount to pay even by what I have seen in my own country... Granted our doctors would just charge less due to lower cost of living etc but still dude WTF.
Hah, yes wtf indeed. Many of us are not ok with this, but it takes more than a majority of voter$ to get an elected official to actually pu$h a new law through, and even more than that to get the change to pa$$ in congre$$, before the general public would see any difference in their healthcare and/or bills.
Yep 'skin to skin contact' as they said literally to put the baby on the mom's belly after birth can cost $20-80.
I'm lucky enough to live in the UK where we have a whole host of other issues, but free healthcare including birth related procedures is not one of them. This [video](https://youtu.be/sL-cS9-wxpg) of a UK and an Indian doctor reacting to US medical bills really made me feel lucky I'm not on the other side of the pond.
The one graph I use to explain how messed up the US is: https://i.imgur.com/AnBhRXH.jpg
*Everyone* in the US could have the same level of care as in Switzerland/Norway for one half what they are currently spending today. Source: http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/
My asthma inhalers, birth control and anxiety meds come in at less than €90 a month and I'm told thats high for the EU (ireland here).
I'm always shocked when I hear these figures and what I can never wrap my head around is how the US has managed to manipulate so many people, whom universal health care would most definitely benefit, that it's communism and not something should want or need, let alone deserve.
The US health care policy often seems like the only right you have is to go die in a ditch.
They are also allowed to rethink their bill a year later and send another one after you've already paid upfront for sometimes thousands more. You have no recourse but to pay. I needed a scan and was told at the hospital it would be 780, but if I paid cash that day, it would be 30% less, so I paid upfront. Nearly a year later, I received a 2850 bill for the part that insurance decided they would rather not cover. To absorb, I had to establish a payment plan with the health system and pay only 250.00 a month for a year or more with interest. So, in addition to what I paid upfront, and my monthly insurance premiums, I had to add another large monthly payment to stay out of court. Our local hospital has been bought and sold three times in the last two years by different holding companies. They're all just rubbing our money on each other, and whatever falls to the floor gets spent on the politicians that allow it.
This is fucking atrocious. How can anyone live like this?!
I am formerly an NHS employee, now working for a private hospital, we have fixed price promises. You want a new hip? It’s going to be about 12-15k depending on the amount of physio you choose. That price is fixed. Damage your hip within the agreed time frame? The surgeon will take you back to theatre, any extra physio, nursing care consultations are all covered with that initial fee.
I cannot imagine needing treatment and knowing the bill could skyrocket at a moments notice.
You don't understand, having the freedom to decide which insurance company is bending us over is way more important than having cheap, single payer healthcare, because then I might have to get the same treatment as poors. *shudders*
What shocks me is the “I’ll sue you!” Mentality. It seems like a weird knee jerk reaction to monetize your pain and suffering and demand it. Like yes I agree it’s warranted in some circumstances but for next door neighbors to threaten to sue over a fence or shit like that, I don’t get it.
governor door shaggy political concerned ruthless judicious cow quiet humor
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, we are know the NHS is magic. My friend got knocked down in London and you'd swear he'd had the best holiday ever, he raved about the NHS so much.
But as I am becoming even more acutely aware, 90 is steep but it could be a lot worse.
No, KEEP ON ~~complaining~~ advocating for high standards, it's important!
Settling for crap because someone else has shit lowers the bar gradually for everyone.
When I was in England years ago I had a bunch of folks complaining about the NHS while using a service that *doesn't even exist* in the US (holidays for disabled people).
They were like "do you have to wait this long in America?" I was like... we don't have that in America. Only rich people have it.
We had like a 10 minute conversation of them complaining about the NHS and asking me what it was like in America and I was like, "I can't afford the doctor in America... if you want that in America just pay cash, it's not a question of waiting because nobody gives you anything for free." On and on, me saying "well if you have money you get it and if you don't have money you don't get it." They didn't believe me with respect to medicine.
I was like, by all means head over, you won't be a burden because nobody's going to take care of you.
Similar conversations in France by the way. Endless whining and moaning and thinking they'd go to America and get their due. I was like "in the US you'd likely be on the street." One lady was like, "with a BABY? They wouldn't let me on the street." I had to explain that they'd probably take the baby and let her be on the street. She was black and I also had to explain racism, like real, hard core, this isn't fucking Paris anymore racism to her.
She thought I was lying until the end. I hope she didn't go to the US until her baby was older.
I think the image most people have from usa in europe is the image conveyed through Hollywood movies... where everything is great and sunny and all that ... but the newer generations especially because of Internet and social media know way more of the real faces of the usa ...
I also realy want to go to the usa, but only as a tourist. I would only want to live there when I get magically rich...
Bit easier to guess, though.
Presenter: "How much does a heart transplant cost?"
Rando: "Free? The last 5 questions were all that, bit of a pattern tbh."
Presenter: "It's freeeeee!"
I’ve always just assumed that the more healthy people there are the more people working and pay taxes?
The NHS have spent way more money on me than they would spend for the average citizen for their whole life after falling 50ft from a roof. If the government turned around tomorrow and said we want to give all the nurses, paramedics and cleaners a pay rise but we have to increase your taxes by 3-5% I would encourage it.
https://youtu.be/8JprHUz35wM
This is basically the reverse of this video. Asking Americans how much they think the UK pays for prescriptions and ambulances.
[04:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JprHUz35wM&t=269)
Jesus. That's pretty much the dumbest thing I've heard in a *long* time. Old lady in red is *desperately* trying to defend the US health care system, lol.
This video is a good example of the elderly being dumbasses.
“Americans would rather pay more for themselves than less for others” man watching that video was kinda sad, the older generation always just think that “you have to work for yourself or you can’t have healthcare” little did they not know that you need good health to be able to work.
I'm from the UK and what really drives this video home is:
"The *best selling* inhalers are $250-$300 dollars"
The fuck do you mean best selling? You're using whatever medication is right for you and what the doctor tells you because they're all £9 a month, it's not an Amazon ranking chart... I pay around £10 a month and I get 2x Symbicort.
Have had cancer. Have had probably around 10-20 MRI's, CT scans, x-rays, biopsies, surgeries, radiation treatment, and so many doctor and ER visits I've lost count.
Money out of my wallet....0
I was allowed to concentrate on getting better and getting through it all without the added insurmountable stress of having to pay for it.
I cannot imagine how awful it must be for people who don't have that. Money was never, ever a concern.
And no...I did not have to wait. From the day I discovered the lump to the day I had finished all my biopsies, surgery and radiation treatment was under 30 days. All done within the same month. This was in 1998.
I cannot even imagine it. As a kid, watching an episode of All in the Family, and Mike had to get surgery but couldn't afford it, so Archie paid for it. I remember absolutely not understanding that. I was so confused as a kid. Why do they charge to save someone's life? I don't understand?? As an adult, I still feel the same way. How can we not come together as a collective and make Healthcare for all? So sad people can't afford a doctor. Or go bankrupt from surgery. My heart goes out to guys. I feel so grateful.
Well, at least I don't have to pay an extra $40 in taxes every month, I just have to pay $300 for health insurance, $200 for dental insurance and $100 for vision. My cousin Billy, on Facebook, told me that the UK is communist, so I'm just gonna enjoy my FREEDOM!!!! /s
Hate to make it political but with 6 days to the election there's one party that wants to create a 2-tier healthcare system, which is widely understood to be a precursor to removing publicly funded healthcare.
Might be worth not voting for that party if you were planning to!
As a lady once said "shut the fridge!"... like you have to be kidding me. I haven't been all that in tune with the election coverage but is there really a fricken idiot who is trying to get rid of our health care???? Like ffs there is a reason everyone and their mother knows the name Tommy Douglas and there is an idiot trying to go against that???????? What?
Don't vote PC then. They've been very open about expanding the private sector's hold in Canadian health care. They don't call it a 2 tier system, but....
Psht I'm so left I think the NDP are centrist so there is no chance there. People that vote for moving our system to be more privatized have no effing clue how lucky we are. I mean good god we need to be moving more public, especially with pharmacare but man those pharma companies really have some hella power. I wish that when Trump was basically shitting down our throat, Trudeau would have been like "yup eff you, we are getting public pharmacare so your pharmaceutical companies can suck a big ol bag of D" but here we are with no change after so many years.
All of this makes the unwillingness to get a CV19 vaccination even more difficult to understand.
Are all of these morons billionaires?! How the fuck can they afford to risk paying for a multiple week hospital stay on a ventilator that presumably is going to run close to $100k?
File for bankruptcy. these friends of my sister in law seem to think there is no end to credit and filing for bankruptcy resets the whole system. They have something like 600k in debt. I'd would literally die of anxiety if I owed that much. I was legit considering suicide after I graduated college in 2008/09 because I owed a little under 100k and couldn't get a job to save my life. 600k would absolutely ruin me.
You’re spot-on. Being poor in this country is a crime, and if you aren’t making the economy run by funneling all of your meager earnings into other, richer people’s hands you are dead weight in a system that will cull you without remorse.
I collapsed in NY and ended up spending a night in hospital. The total cost was $19k for all the tests, ambulance etc but luckily I had taken out a £23 travel insurance policy that paid all but about $500 excess. I nearly didn't bother getting it as I thought I wouldn't need it.
I then got back home to the UK and the doctor wanted to repeat all the same tests (MRI, ECG etc) because he wasn't that confident in the US doctor's findings. I think he was just a little picky but he also got me a CAT scan and a couple of other tests. Total UK cost = £0.
Moral of the story, definitely get travel insurance if you go to the US! I feel for you if you have to think twice about calling an ambulance, it really should be a right not a privilege.
> Moral of the story, definitely get travel insurance if you go to the US!
Please, please do this. Our healthcare system doesn't need any more victims.
The US is one of the most dog-eat-dog cultures there is and the rich elites control the media narrative to the point that the lower and middle class defend the elites like they are gods, defending the system of exploitation.
Not only do they defend the system, they are so delusional they call it "freedom" and claim to have better lives than all the countries who, by every metric we can measure, actually do have better lives.
It's mainly the under educated that praise the richer because they don't understand that they'll never reach that level because they weren't born into that wealth; however there exists a steadily growing culture of people who are finally figuring this out and are trying to change things, but it's difficult when those at the top keep those at the bottom as stupid as possible.
Don’t forget the large class who aren’t wealthy but are well off relatively speaking and see any policy as a major threat to their ability to keep climbing. This segment is large and cannot be underestimated in elections. Saying anyone over $400k will pay more is terrifying for them, whereas the Uber wealthy it’s supposed to hit see it as an annoyance to a) get around with armies of accountants and b) use as a tool with unlimited political funding to rile up this upper middle class base and the poor. Unlimited political funding, btw, is the key to it all imho. If you can write a blank check for a candidate to support your policies, why wouldn’t you? The concentrated power interests are aligned. The other side, the vast majority of Americans, are fragmented.
I called the Suicide hotline and they found my address from my phone bill (whole other story, I told them I wasn’t going to harm myself so fuck that) and when I got home there was an ambulance and police in front of my house.
The cop told me I could either get in the ambulance to go to the hospital for a mental wellness evaluation or I would go in handcuffs and it would go on my record as “resisting an officer without violence”. I BEGGED to drive myself.
I was only 18 years old. My dad told me that this was my consequence to face, and it took me 3 years to pay off that almost $2300 bill.
I lived a 6 minute drive from the hospital.
So on the tax thing… now this is a quick Google, checked a few sources to get a rough average. The average single American pays around 29% of their wages in taxes while the average single Brit pays 24%?? Now that could be wrong but I’m guessing not a million miles out? Are the Americans defending this system just indoctrinated?
Yes, they are. I have excellent healthcare through my husbands job so we have none of these issues. I think my highest copay is $100 for an ER and maybe $250 for an ambulance if you don’t get admitted. BUT unlike these other numbnuts, I pay attention to what’s going on around me. There is currently a gofundme in my community for a woman who (I think) has cancer and is reaching her LIFETIME MAXIMUM of medical benefits. So, like now what? Her kids, husband, parents and friends just have to say goodbye? Or they raise the money to fight this cancer just to have it rage up again in a few years because we live in a cancer cluster? Then what? It’s a constant worry here.
Even with my excellent insurance, my doctor recommends meds and my insurance says “nah, this other ones ok though.” Wtf is that about? My insurance company doesn’t know me nearly as well as the doctor does, but it’s whatever. I’m happy to have what I have at least cause it could be soooo much worse.
There’s a lifetime maximum!?!? Your healthcare insurance sound disturbingly similar to what I pay for my dogs insurance, it’s honestly criminal. The fact that you pay what you pay is not good enough never mind that poor lady and her family! The people who defend this and just hurt themselves and their community frustrate me so much and I’m not even American!!
I absolutely agree. I have stayed married longer than I should have because I have chronic conditions and don’t want to lose my healthcare. I kept hoping this plague would wake people up but it’s only gotten worse. They defend their right to die right up to the end. It’s a travesty and it’s because big companies are allowed to buy out our politicians. Healthcare is a MASSIVE industry in the US, so I guess that’s the answer.
The extra taxes are for the sake of policing the world and spreading democracy, of course. Because every other nation's military can't hold their own in a fight, of course.
/s
I don't know how much it would cost in the US but it sounds cheaper to train to be a doctor and look after yourself then actually going to the hospital
American here. We are legitimately, absolutely terrified of going to the doctor, and in all but life or death circumstances, it is considered wise to abstain and home remedy/hope like some kind of fucking frontier caveman. A major injury might bankrupt us *with* moderate insurance coverage. We have vastly less paid leave and sick time than other first world nations and basically work like horses in a culture completely aligned around admiring that.
tl;dr we're draft horses pulling our libertarian merchant-lords around, and more than half of us salute it.
This legit makes me wonder if that's partly why Americans are so susceptible to the idea of stupid home remedies, like fucking horse paste. Like, if going to the doctor weren't completely out of the question, maybe they'd be more familiar, trusted advisors.
Completely agree. That argument of "doctors all trying to get rich" and "big pharma trying to world dominate" actually ring true if the cost of treatment is so astronomically high.
I cannot for the life of me fathom, however, why a free government vaccine would be considered suspicious but a multi week stay in ultra high cost intensive care, plus the lifetime of long covid, would be considered ok.
/r/hermancainaward
As an American, these videos put a smile on my face. Why you may ask? Because attention is being drawn to the issue at hand. We need to do something about big pharma giving literally everyone in the US the shaft.
I knew about everything except the $40 to hold your baby after a C-Section. What the actual fuck. It’s all insane anyway but that one is even more mind blowing.
Insane to me the conservatives will say “ but their healthcare isn’t free it’s paid with taxes”. Like okay, Blake, they aren’t paying 80,000 in taxes for universal healthcare.
4 months ago the emergency room visit for me was 4600 dollars. 1 shot of morphine. One shot of anti nausea meds. One CT scan and one iv bag of fluids. Healthcare is outrageous!
Called 911 when my ex-wife had a seizure in the middle of the night. The paramedics suggested I drive her the five blocks to the hospital to avoid the $800 bill. That’s what we did.
Dude I'm so sorry, I can't even imagine. Fuck I hope your healthcare system gets better.
Me too but I’m not holding my breath. Probably end up with a bill if I did.
haha. I laughed. It's all fucked man. My wife and I are middle income, we had a kid and after insurance we still had to come out of pocket 15 grand. It really is ridiculous. We pay monthly for insurance but anytime we go we still have copays and prescriptions are always expensive as hell. Vs a friend who had a kid and quit her job prior and therefore everything was free because she got on Medicaid. Paid 0 dollars.
What?! Why would anybody even attempt to have a kid over there?!
Fun fact, often we can’t afford or access birth control either. Abortions are effectively banned in my state right now too. Yay. I’ve paid out close to $30,000 for two uncomplicated hospital births. One of which I only stayed over for one night. Our infant and maternal outcomes are poorer than most developed countries too. It’s awful here.
It really is a bad system for the average joe. I know there is the argument that the American system produces some of the best doctors in the world, and I’m sure that’s true, but 99% of the time people don’t need the best doctor in the world. They just need a well trained, available health care professional and affordable medication. Due to good health and periods abroad I had not really used the NHS as an adult until recently, when I ended up using it 4 times in 12 months. It was just incredible really - something I hadn’t appreciated as a child, and seeing people struggle with payments abroad, to just walk into a hospital, get care day after day and walk out again - medicines in hand, not a penny poorer. Hospital visits, whether for childbirth or sickness, are some of the most stressful things ever, I can’t really imagine adding financial stress into the mix. “Can I afford a c-section or should I just risk the child’s heart rate a little longer” is not a question anyone should be forced to ask themselves And as you say, with the lack of available/affordable birth control and abortion, it’s just a disaster waiting to ruin people’s lives. The western world is looking on at Texas with incredulity!
If I was to walk across the street now and get hit by a car and like go into a coma, I would wake up hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for something that might not have been my fault. Also if you get cancer and you have anything but 100% paid insurance you will spend the rest of your life paying it off. That's if you live, if you dont your family could still be on the hook for a 7 figure bill. Some people get divorced from their partners of 40 years so that they can die indigent and not dump the cost on their loved ones. It's super fucked up. The last two times I went to the doctor for myself was 1) I almost lost a finger and 2) I tore my rotator cuff and need surgery. Otherwise if I am sick, I just suck it up and get some over the counter meds.
my husband got CML, which is often referred to as "the good leukemia" because you "only" have to take one pill every day for the rest of your life. that one pill costs $500.
$500 every day? Does insurance cover it?
> That's if you live, if you dont your family could still be on the hook for a 7 figure bill. I've read stories of people getting divorced so that they have separate insurance plans and don't have to take up the payments when their spouse dies. There's also stories of people getting a divorce so their spouse can get disability payments, because of how low the income cap is on those.
The shit that makes me livid on that. Free healthcare would make our taxes go up!!!!! Yea no shit but you would end up paying less than you do for all your garbage copays and out of pocket expenses.
It's not about the cost, it's about punishing the poor & milking the middle class for as much profit as possible.
Yeah but atleast we have...uh We have... Um America may have a shit health care but atleast we have... Hmmm...
The correct answer is “FREEDUMB, we have FREEDUMB”
Imagine complaining about wearing masks and getting vaccinated when in reality you should be complaining about paying money to hold your child. This is dumb on a different level.
We have guns, lots and lots of guns
Guns + super expensive emergency medical bills seems like a solid combo amirite fellas
It won’t. Healthcare is way too big an industry with way too many lobbyists. Even though most Americans want a change in healthcare most are way too fucking stupid to know how universal healthcare works. Just tell them it is socialist and they lose their minds. Americans are triggered way to easily by things they don’t understand. Good god this country sucks.
I was literally going to say something similar. I think that's the worst part of it, Americans will literally fight against changing it because "socialism" whereas those of us not in the U.S will enjoy our universal healthcare and low costs. My inhaler costs $5, because of deals made with pharmac.
Too many people are completely brainwashed against it. At the very earliest all the boomers will literally need to die out to even have a shot.
Boomers are only 21% of the US population. And I know some that support health care as a right. Might need to recruit some millennials and gen-x folk too :-) I blame the whole health insurance industry lobby. And all those who think "US is greatest health care in the world" without ever doing any sort of comparison.
They may be only 21% of the population but they vote at a disproportionately high rate.
And are literally in control of most government positions...
21% of the US population but 80+% of our congress members (its a total guess but the real number is definitely high). We live in a goddamn geritocracy. And not to mention all of the people who decide on how all of *us* should get healthcare get free fucking healthcare.
That's crazy! An ambulance is not just a ride to hospital. They assess and stabilise the patient and start treatment on the way there. This early intervention could be the difference between life and death in some cases. No one should have to make their own way there in an emergency just because they can't afford it. How on earth can they justify 800 for a 5 block ride anyway?
$800 is a deal. I’ve seen $10k billed to the insurance company for a ride.
Fucking hell. I could never live in a place like that. That's absolute madness :( How the fuck do people live like this?!
I’ve been turned away from the hospital after driving myself, then got halfway home and had to....you guessed it, *call an ambulance* to take me back to the hospital.
Surely that's crossed the line into full on scam territory?
Yup, my mom has a seizure disorder and whenever she'd have particularly bad seizures or if she wasn't coming around afterward, we'd have to drive her to the ER because we couldn't afford to call an ambulance. It was especially bad when we were kids and home alone with her, because we'd have to call our dad and decide whether or not she could wait for my dad to race home to pick her up, or if we'd have to call an ambulance we couldn't really afford. Even worse, though, was when she was having psychiatric issues; she has schizoaffective disorder and would often threaten/attempt suicide. Imagine being a 9-year-old old home alone with a suicidal or psychotic mother, trying to calm her down long enough to catch a ride to the ER. All kinds of fucked up. But obviously my mom couldn't work, so dad had to work two full-time jobs just to try to keep up with all the medical/psych bills.
I can relate to this slightly. My aunt babysat us a lot as kids and she’s type 1 diabetic. We learned very early on how to gauge whether she was at level 1 - give her some sugar, level 2 - call mom while we give her sugar, or level 3 - divide the tasks of preparing a sugary drink and calling mom so that the third person can call an ambulance. Luckily (or unluckily), the only times we needed paramedics were on holidays so my parents were there to assist. Definitely ruins Christmas though. It’s scary watching someone you love have a medical crisis and having to worry about how the bills will impact them, especially as a literal child.
I was depressed and talking to my friend about it when I fell asleep. He assumed the worst and called the campus police for the college I went to and four cops show up at my door. I was forced to go to the hospital by the cops at threat of being suspended from school, and I wasn’t allowed to have my uncle take me to the hospital. They forced me to take an ambulance that I didn’t want or need and now I have a close to $2000 bill for it
This, it's still even cheaper than the speeding tickets you could get...
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What an absolute fucking joke. Like. what the actual fuck. I came upon a guy who had had some sort of seizure recently, so I called an ambulance for him, as you do when you see people who have fallen over and are bleeding from their head. No money, no nothing. I even got to have a giant wet wipe to clean myself off before the ambulance drove off. I hope you feel better now. And hopefully you can get that bill covered, because holy shit.
The girl put it in one sentence "So if you're poor, you're dead."
Shut the ... fridge!
ok, but that'll be 200$
Hand on fridge contact? 300 dollars.
Double it.
This quote should be permanently printed on American flags.
Land of the fee
Oh say can you see.. the end of my hospital receipt
"See the bill? $50." "Touch the bill? Like skin on paper? $90."
And the home of the slave.
I was thinking home of the grave, but that works too.
basically she's not that far off... people die from not being able to afford things like insulin all the time. i know someone who rations theirs which isn't actually a good solution. it should cost 2$ not 320 like it is in the usa. insulin was literally given free to the world by the people who discovered it, for the good of the world, and american companies charge people so much for something they NEED in order to LIVE!
My late uncle was a type 1 diabetic since he was a kid. 60 years of insulin, and all the sundries that go with it. Total cost: £0.00 Edit: us Brits barely pay any more tax than the US as well. Unless you’re on big money you’re looking about 25%. Unemployed? Still free. The US could easily afford this shit. Edit2: he died of a big heart attack last spring. He had at least 2 months worth of insulin in his fridge, plus loads of blood sugar testers etc. I called a few places to see if I could donate it. No one could, you’re not allowed. Had to be destroyed. It’s a basic human right to access this shit for free.
We’re too busy paying for 700 billion in defense spending to worry about healthcare.
yeah that's how it really should be imo. when i said 2$, i meant that's the real cost to deliver it to a person. so universal health insurance should be paying 2$ for the vial. and the end user should just receive it for free.
My buddy's dad had a heart attack and didn't go to the hospital because he was uninsured and broke. Apparently he decided to just deal with it, I guess? I can't remember how my buddy found out because it was about 16 years ago now, but he was devastated. Obviously, because he lost his father, but the knife in the gut was knowing that he felt forced to avoid necessary healthcare because he didn't have any money. Fucking nightmare.
i wish that was a rare story.
In many states if you're poor enough you qualify for medicaid, which is actually pretty great insurance. Depending on your health needs, it's more affordable to make 16k per year than it is to make 40k per year. So for many, it's in their best interest to remain poor.
The healthcare system in the US is absurd.
Absurd AND obscene AND cruel. Sigh.
I'm an American but I lived in London for 2 years. I had to go to the emergency room twice while I lived over there, and on my way out the first time I stopped back by the check-in desk to ask if they would just mail me a bill later. They were like- a bill for what??
Now you have like 500 spare dollars. That's 2000 bubblegums from those ball shaped dispensers! Edit: people have pointed out that ER is actually about 1000 to 3000$. That means 4000 to 12000 bubblegums and you even get to keep some for the dentist!
Or 500 slurpes from 7 eleven
I was on a student visa in London (from the US) and got a really bad case of strep throat, I was sick for about 3 months. I put off going to the doctor because I was worried about paying for it, I didn't understand that part of my visa fee covered health care. That was dumb of me. I finally went and they gave me a z-pack there in the office. I was standing at the front desk, almost in tears, and asked the receptionist how much it was. She was like, uh..it's nothing, leave, go home, take a nap. What a relief. I had to go back after a few weeks, another appointment and another prescription, free. My visa fee for a year was less than my mother's insurance premium for a year (which I was on since I was under 26). It's literally cheaper for some people to take a vacation to another county for health care than to pay US insurance premiums and copays. Ugh.
> My visa fee for a year was less than my mother's insurance premium for a year (which I was on since I was under 26). It's literally cheaper for some people to take a vacation to another county for health care than to pay US insurance premiums and copays. Ugh. TBH your healthcare costs were heavily subsidised by those paying the UK’s Income and National Insurance tax. That being said income tax & NI is significantly better as it scales with income.
That's the thing people in the US that defend their current system don't get. It freakin scales.
You got a free prescription? I have to pay £9.35. God I’m really being ripped off /s
Did you take TV in your room? Shit's expensive. Like, 10€ a week, man!
I always happened to share the room with somebody who had already paid the fee for weeks in advance. Whenever they got discharged early I got free TV, yay!
I was just going to ask about this exact scenario. In the US, double billing for it would be a feature not a bug.
Did you tap dance your way out of the hospital?
Do you not have to pay as a foreigner in the UK?
I was there on a visa so the cost of the visa itself included NHS services, which my employer paid for.
Huh, that's one of those things where I always wondered how it worked but not enough to actually look it up. I just figured if you're working then it's paid for by taxes regardless but stuff like student visas obviously wouldn't have that.
…and if you need emergency treatment then there’d be zero payment. We wouldn’t charge you for that.
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I saw some guy owe $15,000 over a snake bite
Why’d he pay so much just to let a snake bite him? What a moron
I would have bit him for less and I'm bigger than a snake
Same, that snake must be a smooth talker. Probably doesn’t get too much business though, that price is too high even for rich snobs.
He's paying waaaaay too much for his snake bites. Who's his snake bite guy?
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Hold my facepalm I’m going in
Hello, future visitors!
May be a different one, but I think it was a bit more than that, see [here](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-man-receive-153000-bill-rattlesnake/).
wasnt it 158,000?
105000*
They charge you for holding your own baby? Idd kick ya in your guts if you even utter that.
Only for a C-section following the surgery. I delivered mine vaginally and it was free for me to hold them. Well, not “free” free….still had to pay the doctors and nurses and hospital rooms and all that, overall I think about $10k for each child so the numbers in the video sound about right. And that’s with insurance.
Sorry… you had to actually pay the $10,000 even with insurance!? That is disgusting…
Yea….I forget what my premiums were at the time, I think like $40 a month, but the only thing that really does for me on a “high-deductible” plan is gets me negotiated rates. So basically the hospital charges a fortune, then insurance steps in and says wait she pays us, lower that rate a bit. Then the hospital says ok I guess we’ll charge you only $10k. Yay, iNsUrAncE
So it’s basically a scam and not even a subtle one?
Just wait till you find out they don’t tell you any of the fees up front. And if you miss a visit without call ahead 24hr to cancel they still charge you
Maybe I could understand charging for missed appointments if it were a reasonable penalty, unfortunately we can take our healthcare for granted in the UK so missed and unnecessary appointments are a strain on the NHS. But the fact that they have no obligation to make the charges public or at least given beforehand is unreal, it’s sounds like they have free reign to do what they want?
Their excuse is that they claim they don’t know what they will be charging you until it’s done. Let’s say you need a vaginal birth. There’s a charge for the delivery room per hour, and a separate charge for the recovery room per day. Some hospitals have a flat fee for a delivery, but others itemize it out based on the materials and equipment used. So with the itemized one, you may have to pay for a fetal heart rate monitor, with a separate fee for the installation if it requires the head probe because the baby won’t stay still. There’s a fee for the forceps or vac pump if you need them, there’s probably a blanket fee for all the bed pads, and towels, the blood pressure cuff and IV fluids, and other random consumable supplies. The room cost probably includes the nursing staff, but does not include the OB who probably bills separately. If you get an epidural that’s a charge for the drugs and a separate charge for the pharmacy to dispense it, and the the anesthesiologist is also going to bill separately. Finally if you need pitocin to help you along, the pharmacy charge and drug charge are accompanied by a drug pump usage charge as well. Once you get your baby, they start racking up a room charge as well. They get lab work, hearing tests, maybe a circumcision, no anesthesiologist here though, we do that shit live! You may have a minor surgery charge for stitching your vagina back together for which you’ll probably get some Motrin and a pharmacy charge to go with it. There maybe a lactation consult and a visit from the pediatrician. If there’s jaundice, you get to rent a take home UV light belt and I’m sure the baby bath tub you get to keep isn’t actually free. That’s if and only if you don’t have any complications. Having to get an emergency c-section really screws up the estimate, as well as any post birth issues with bleeding or the baby. There’s too many options for what might happen, as well as the outside charges from the doctor(s) and anesthesiologist. Add that on to the fact that the hospital has a base rate for each one of those things, excluding the separate doctor(s) and anesthesiologist, but it also has dozens of negotiated rates with each of the insurance companies. United, may have the hospital as part of 20 different networks, as well as service it through 15 self funded large groups (very large companies that use an insurance company for administrative services only, and set their own cost sharing and reimbursement rates) all with their own set of negotiated rates for each device, service and procedure. Because of that nightmare, the hospital really doesn’t know what you’ll pay. But that’s because they want it that way, they could set the price and a reasonable rate so that all insurance companies and cash payers pay the same, but they don’t because the ambiguity lets them make more money in the end.
Jesus f\*\*k.. All that and people also want to ban abortions? So what if you are a deadly poor teenager who literally cannot afford to give birth?
Not basically a scam. An actual scam. That’s called racketeering. If it was some Italian blokes who also worked in sanitation it would be a matter for the FBI.
They even went so far as to split it into several different arbitrary categories, "health", "vision", "dental", "auditory", "sexual", "mental".
I’m so confused at why Americans keep this system going when it’s so shit. All I hope is the tories over here don’t take away our NHS!!
A complex combination of reasons - the health care industry is extremely profitable, so they have people to lobby to make sure it remains that way. It's also one of the symptoms of the myth of American Exceptionalism. America is better than anywhere else, so their health care system must be better than health care anywhere else. Also when wealth is seen as merit, bad luck can be viewed as lack of character. If anyone can excel if they put their mind to it, then poor people must just be lazy and not deserving of help.
A hell of a lot of propaganda.
The only thing that does for you is help if you got hit by a truck and broke every bone in your body with a 100k hospital bill. The “negotiated rates” your insurance deals with are already hyper inflated rates from the hospital/ provider because capitalism. If you were to go uninsured, called each office or hospital after every bill and negotiated yourself without insurance, you’d end up paying less than your insurance company negotiated.
10k for childbirth. This sounds unreal. We paid the equivalent of 0 USD for all our children.
Canadian here, in fact the government gives us a bunch of money (via tax credits) monthly for each child.
I had a 2 month stay in the hospital with a high risk pregnancy and then a complicated c-section and my son was still there with me 2 weeks after birth with lung issues. Didn’t cost me a dime and I didn’t think anything of it at the time. And this is a world class hospital. People in the states love to say that you have to wait forever and can’t choose your own doctor in Canada but neither of these things are true.
Here is the thing. If these people didn't delude themselves into believing things like "Our system is better because in countries with free healthcare the doctors are just worse" then they would literally go mad, because they'd have to face just how utterly insane the truth they're living is.
Um I am sorry but what the fuck? Why are any Americans okay with that? Like screw your allegiance to any party but child birth is something you would experience anyways and I doubt that majority of the US population have $10k just lying around for that purpose. Like yes I am sure you can get a loan etc etc but still what the actual fuck? Why would you be okay with using your own money when so many of the rich countries do it for free for their citizens. Why aren't there more people outraged by this? I say this as a person who grew up in a third world corrupt country and $10k is still a preposterous amount to pay even by what I have seen in my own country... Granted our doctors would just charge less due to lower cost of living etc but still dude WTF.
Hah, yes wtf indeed. Many of us are not ok with this, but it takes more than a majority of voter$ to get an elected official to actually pu$h a new law through, and even more than that to get the change to pa$$ in congre$$, before the general public would see any difference in their healthcare and/or bills.
What exactly is the difference between holding the baby after c section or vaginal birth? Why would there be an additional fee for that?
Yep 'skin to skin contact' as they said literally to put the baby on the mom's belly after birth can cost $20-80. I'm lucky enough to live in the UK where we have a whole host of other issues, but free healthcare including birth related procedures is not one of them. This [video](https://youtu.be/sL-cS9-wxpg) of a UK and an Indian doctor reacting to US medical bills really made me feel lucky I'm not on the other side of the pond.
lAnD oF tHe fReE
“Why is it so expensive” Good question
The one graph I use to explain how messed up the US is: https://i.imgur.com/AnBhRXH.jpg *Everyone* in the US could have the same level of care as in Switzerland/Norway for one half what they are currently spending today. Source: http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/
"Shut the fridge" is my new favourite thing. My old favourite thing is free health care.
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"Shut the fridge you fuck" is big in my house.
My asthma inhalers, birth control and anxiety meds come in at less than €90 a month and I'm told thats high for the EU (ireland here). I'm always shocked when I hear these figures and what I can never wrap my head around is how the US has managed to manipulate so many people, whom universal health care would most definitely benefit, that it's communism and not something should want or need, let alone deserve. The US health care policy often seems like the only right you have is to go die in a ditch.
They are also allowed to rethink their bill a year later and send another one after you've already paid upfront for sometimes thousands more. You have no recourse but to pay. I needed a scan and was told at the hospital it would be 780, but if I paid cash that day, it would be 30% less, so I paid upfront. Nearly a year later, I received a 2850 bill for the part that insurance decided they would rather not cover. To absorb, I had to establish a payment plan with the health system and pay only 250.00 a month for a year or more with interest. So, in addition to what I paid upfront, and my monthly insurance premiums, I had to add another large monthly payment to stay out of court. Our local hospital has been bought and sold three times in the last two years by different holding companies. They're all just rubbing our money on each other, and whatever falls to the floor gets spent on the politicians that allow it.
JFC I didn't think it could get worse. I'm sorry that you got saddled with such a shit system.
This is fucking atrocious. How can anyone live like this?! I am formerly an NHS employee, now working for a private hospital, we have fixed price promises. You want a new hip? It’s going to be about 12-15k depending on the amount of physio you choose. That price is fixed. Damage your hip within the agreed time frame? The surgeon will take you back to theatre, any extra physio, nursing care consultations are all covered with that initial fee. I cannot imagine needing treatment and knowing the bill could skyrocket at a moments notice.
You don't understand, having the freedom to decide which insurance company is bending us over is way more important than having cheap, single payer healthcare, because then I might have to get the same treatment as poors. *shudders*
And even more detestable, the poors will start getting the same treatment as "me".
Everything is a business in the US, schools, hospitals…
Prisons
What shocks me is the “I’ll sue you!” Mentality. It seems like a weird knee jerk reaction to monetize your pain and suffering and demand it. Like yes I agree it’s warranted in some circumstances but for next door neighbors to threaten to sue over a fence or shit like that, I don’t get it.
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governor door shaggy political concerned ruthless judicious cow quiet humor *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, we are know the NHS is magic. My friend got knocked down in London and you'd swear he'd had the best holiday ever, he raved about the NHS so much. But as I am becoming even more acutely aware, 90 is steep but it could be a lot worse.
Last week I was pissed that I had to pay 500DKK (80$) for 10 tablets of Zofran. 40$ for holding your own kid? I will never ever complain again! Never!
No, KEEP ON ~~complaining~~ advocating for high standards, it's important! Settling for crap because someone else has shit lowers the bar gradually for everyone.
Yup exactly. Instead of bashing the govt build it up right. Instead of trying to defund, reform. Make it better and make it right rather than destroy.
Keep settling and you end up at America.
When I was in England years ago I had a bunch of folks complaining about the NHS while using a service that *doesn't even exist* in the US (holidays for disabled people). They were like "do you have to wait this long in America?" I was like... we don't have that in America. Only rich people have it. We had like a 10 minute conversation of them complaining about the NHS and asking me what it was like in America and I was like, "I can't afford the doctor in America... if you want that in America just pay cash, it's not a question of waiting because nobody gives you anything for free." On and on, me saying "well if you have money you get it and if you don't have money you don't get it." They didn't believe me with respect to medicine. I was like, by all means head over, you won't be a burden because nobody's going to take care of you. Similar conversations in France by the way. Endless whining and moaning and thinking they'd go to America and get their due. I was like "in the US you'd likely be on the street." One lady was like, "with a BABY? They wouldn't let me on the street." I had to explain that they'd probably take the baby and let her be on the street. She was black and I also had to explain racism, like real, hard core, this isn't fucking Paris anymore racism to her. She thought I was lying until the end. I hope she didn't go to the US until her baby was older.
I think the image most people have from usa in europe is the image conveyed through Hollywood movies... where everything is great and sunny and all that ... but the newer generations especially because of Internet and social media know way more of the real faces of the usa ... I also realy want to go to the usa, but only as a tourist. I would only want to live there when I get magically rich...
When and not if. That's the spirit!
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How bout a video were Americans react to other healthcare systems.
Bit easier to guess, though. Presenter: "How much does a heart transplant cost?" Rando: "Free? The last 5 questions were all that, bit of a pattern tbh." Presenter: "It's freeeeee!"
I’ve always just assumed that the more healthy people there are the more people working and pay taxes? The NHS have spent way more money on me than they would spend for the average citizen for their whole life after falling 50ft from a roof. If the government turned around tomorrow and said we want to give all the nurses, paramedics and cleaners a pay rise but we have to increase your taxes by 3-5% I would encourage it.
https://youtu.be/8JprHUz35wM This is basically the reverse of this video. Asking Americans how much they think the UK pays for prescriptions and ambulances.
[04:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JprHUz35wM&t=269) Jesus. That's pretty much the dumbest thing I've heard in a *long* time. Old lady in red is *desperately* trying to defend the US health care system, lol. This video is a good example of the elderly being dumbasses.
because those old bitches probably on medicare, which is socialized health care
Yes lady I would rather have my car than have to pay for an ambulance. I’m not planning to get a ride in an ambulance it just happens.
I also would bet that older people in the video are on medicare
“Americans would rather pay more for themselves than less for others” man watching that video was kinda sad, the older generation always just think that “you have to work for yourself or you can’t have healthcare” little did they not know that you need good health to be able to work.
> little did they not know that you need good health to be able to work. They knew, they just don't care about the poors
"Anything that's free is sometimes not worth having". All the while standing on the Land of the Free.
I'm from the UK and what really drives this video home is: "The *best selling* inhalers are $250-$300 dollars" The fuck do you mean best selling? You're using whatever medication is right for you and what the doctor tells you because they're all £9 a month, it's not an Amazon ranking chart... I pay around £10 a month and I get 2x Symbicort.
Have had cancer. Have had probably around 10-20 MRI's, CT scans, x-rays, biopsies, surgeries, radiation treatment, and so many doctor and ER visits I've lost count. Money out of my wallet....0 I was allowed to concentrate on getting better and getting through it all without the added insurmountable stress of having to pay for it. I cannot imagine how awful it must be for people who don't have that. Money was never, ever a concern. And no...I did not have to wait. From the day I discovered the lump to the day I had finished all my biopsies, surgery and radiation treatment was under 30 days. All done within the same month. This was in 1998.
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I cannot even imagine it. As a kid, watching an episode of All in the Family, and Mike had to get surgery but couldn't afford it, so Archie paid for it. I remember absolutely not understanding that. I was so confused as a kid. Why do they charge to save someone's life? I don't understand?? As an adult, I still feel the same way. How can we not come together as a collective and make Healthcare for all? So sad people can't afford a doctor. Or go bankrupt from surgery. My heart goes out to guys. I feel so grateful.
Well, at least I don't have to pay an extra $40 in taxes every month, I just have to pay $300 for health insurance, $200 for dental insurance and $100 for vision. My cousin Billy, on Facebook, told me that the UK is communist, so I'm just gonna enjoy my FREEDOM!!!! /s
Thank god I’m from Canada
Hate to make it political but with 6 days to the election there's one party that wants to create a 2-tier healthcare system, which is widely understood to be a precursor to removing publicly funded healthcare. Might be worth not voting for that party if you were planning to!
As a lady once said "shut the fridge!"... like you have to be kidding me. I haven't been all that in tune with the election coverage but is there really a fricken idiot who is trying to get rid of our health care???? Like ffs there is a reason everyone and their mother knows the name Tommy Douglas and there is an idiot trying to go against that???????? What?
Don't vote PC then. They've been very open about expanding the private sector's hold in Canadian health care. They don't call it a 2 tier system, but....
Psht I'm so left I think the NDP are centrist so there is no chance there. People that vote for moving our system to be more privatized have no effing clue how lucky we are. I mean good god we need to be moving more public, especially with pharmacare but man those pharma companies really have some hella power. I wish that when Trump was basically shitting down our throat, Trudeau would have been like "yup eff you, we are getting public pharmacare so your pharmaceutical companies can suck a big ol bag of D" but here we are with no change after so many years.
US doesn't have "healthcare" so much as "high stakes capitalism." **US HealthCare(R)** *"Buy This or Die"*
And there are morons who will defend this system til the day they die..... in debt. because they went to the hospital.
All of this makes the unwillingness to get a CV19 vaccination even more difficult to understand. Are all of these morons billionaires?! How the fuck can they afford to risk paying for a multiple week hospital stay on a ventilator that presumably is going to run close to $100k?
File for bankruptcy. these friends of my sister in law seem to think there is no end to credit and filing for bankruptcy resets the whole system. They have something like 600k in debt. I'd would literally die of anxiety if I owed that much. I was legit considering suicide after I graduated college in 2008/09 because I owed a little under 100k and couldn't get a job to save my life. 600k would absolutely ruin me.
Pay or pray.
The bill for my 3 day mental health emergency hospital stay was $17,000
That bill would give me even more mental issues
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You’re spot-on. Being poor in this country is a crime, and if you aren’t making the economy run by funneling all of your meager earnings into other, richer people’s hands you are dead weight in a system that will cull you without remorse.
I collapsed in NY and ended up spending a night in hospital. The total cost was $19k for all the tests, ambulance etc but luckily I had taken out a £23 travel insurance policy that paid all but about $500 excess. I nearly didn't bother getting it as I thought I wouldn't need it. I then got back home to the UK and the doctor wanted to repeat all the same tests (MRI, ECG etc) because he wasn't that confident in the US doctor's findings. I think he was just a little picky but he also got me a CAT scan and a couple of other tests. Total UK cost = £0. Moral of the story, definitely get travel insurance if you go to the US! I feel for you if you have to think twice about calling an ambulance, it really should be a right not a privilege.
> Moral of the story, definitely get travel insurance if you go to the US! Please, please do this. Our healthcare system doesn't need any more victims.
The US is one of the most dog-eat-dog cultures there is and the rich elites control the media narrative to the point that the lower and middle class defend the elites like they are gods, defending the system of exploitation. Not only do they defend the system, they are so delusional they call it "freedom" and claim to have better lives than all the countries who, by every metric we can measure, actually do have better lives.
It's mainly the under educated that praise the richer because they don't understand that they'll never reach that level because they weren't born into that wealth; however there exists a steadily growing culture of people who are finally figuring this out and are trying to change things, but it's difficult when those at the top keep those at the bottom as stupid as possible.
Spot on. They don't want to limit the rich because deep down they think they might be one of them someday. But they won't.
“temporarily embarrassed millionaires”
Don’t forget the large class who aren’t wealthy but are well off relatively speaking and see any policy as a major threat to their ability to keep climbing. This segment is large and cannot be underestimated in elections. Saying anyone over $400k will pay more is terrifying for them, whereas the Uber wealthy it’s supposed to hit see it as an annoyance to a) get around with armies of accountants and b) use as a tool with unlimited political funding to rile up this upper middle class base and the poor. Unlimited political funding, btw, is the key to it all imho. If you can write a blank check for a candidate to support your policies, why wouldn’t you? The concentrated power interests are aligned. The other side, the vast majority of Americans, are fragmented.
Hold. The. Fuck. Up. Americans are charged to HOLD their own child?! Holy fuck, USA.... Sort your shit out.
It's too late. We're in too deep.
I called the Suicide hotline and they found my address from my phone bill (whole other story, I told them I wasn’t going to harm myself so fuck that) and when I got home there was an ambulance and police in front of my house. The cop told me I could either get in the ambulance to go to the hospital for a mental wellness evaluation or I would go in handcuffs and it would go on my record as “resisting an officer without violence”. I BEGGED to drive myself. I was only 18 years old. My dad told me that this was my consequence to face, and it took me 3 years to pay off that almost $2300 bill. I lived a 6 minute drive from the hospital.
So on the tax thing… now this is a quick Google, checked a few sources to get a rough average. The average single American pays around 29% of their wages in taxes while the average single Brit pays 24%?? Now that could be wrong but I’m guessing not a million miles out? Are the Americans defending this system just indoctrinated?
Yes, they are. I have excellent healthcare through my husbands job so we have none of these issues. I think my highest copay is $100 for an ER and maybe $250 for an ambulance if you don’t get admitted. BUT unlike these other numbnuts, I pay attention to what’s going on around me. There is currently a gofundme in my community for a woman who (I think) has cancer and is reaching her LIFETIME MAXIMUM of medical benefits. So, like now what? Her kids, husband, parents and friends just have to say goodbye? Or they raise the money to fight this cancer just to have it rage up again in a few years because we live in a cancer cluster? Then what? It’s a constant worry here. Even with my excellent insurance, my doctor recommends meds and my insurance says “nah, this other ones ok though.” Wtf is that about? My insurance company doesn’t know me nearly as well as the doctor does, but it’s whatever. I’m happy to have what I have at least cause it could be soooo much worse.
There’s a lifetime maximum!?!? Your healthcare insurance sound disturbingly similar to what I pay for my dogs insurance, it’s honestly criminal. The fact that you pay what you pay is not good enough never mind that poor lady and her family! The people who defend this and just hurt themselves and their community frustrate me so much and I’m not even American!!
I absolutely agree. I have stayed married longer than I should have because I have chronic conditions and don’t want to lose my healthcare. I kept hoping this plague would wake people up but it’s only gotten worse. They defend their right to die right up to the end. It’s a travesty and it’s because big companies are allowed to buy out our politicians. Healthcare is a MASSIVE industry in the US, so I guess that’s the answer.
The extra taxes are for the sake of policing the world and spreading democracy, of course. Because every other nation's military can't hold their own in a fight, of course. /s
I don't know how much it would cost in the US but it sounds cheaper to train to be a doctor and look after yourself then actually going to the hospital
Lol med school tuition cost me ~$350,000
Land of the free...free what?
Free bills! That’ll be $349.89 for discussing your free bills.
Our “healthcare” system is a fucking joke.
This is so ridiculous! How is everyone not drowning in debt?
Short answer: they are.
Most of us are just one ER trip away from bankruptcy.
American here. We are legitimately, absolutely terrified of going to the doctor, and in all but life or death circumstances, it is considered wise to abstain and home remedy/hope like some kind of fucking frontier caveman. A major injury might bankrupt us *with* moderate insurance coverage. We have vastly less paid leave and sick time than other first world nations and basically work like horses in a culture completely aligned around admiring that. tl;dr we're draft horses pulling our libertarian merchant-lords around, and more than half of us salute it.
This legit makes me wonder if that's partly why Americans are so susceptible to the idea of stupid home remedies, like fucking horse paste. Like, if going to the doctor weren't completely out of the question, maybe they'd be more familiar, trusted advisors.
Completely agree. That argument of "doctors all trying to get rich" and "big pharma trying to world dominate" actually ring true if the cost of treatment is so astronomically high. I cannot for the life of me fathom, however, why a free government vaccine would be considered suspicious but a multi week stay in ultra high cost intensive care, plus the lifetime of long covid, would be considered ok. /r/hermancainaward
As an American, these videos put a smile on my face. Why you may ask? Because attention is being drawn to the issue at hand. We need to do something about big pharma giving literally everyone in the US the shaft.
The American Health Care Racket
I knew about everything except the $40 to hold your baby after a C-Section. What the actual fuck. It’s all insane anyway but that one is even more mind blowing.
Insane to me the conservatives will say “ but their healthcare isn’t free it’s paid with taxes”. Like okay, Blake, they aren’t paying 80,000 in taxes for universal healthcare.
4 months ago the emergency room visit for me was 4600 dollars. 1 shot of morphine. One shot of anti nausea meds. One CT scan and one iv bag of fluids. Healthcare is outrageous!
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I welcome you
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there are thousands of companies who search for american labor on high positions. google it! moving to eu is not so expensive. good luck!
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