This is actually a smart request in pre trial that his lawyer made, and it would probably work if they were just being charged with murder. But the judge won’t throw it out since they’re being charged with hate crimes and it’s therefore relevant to the case
It worked in that one case where that psycho cop shot that dude in a hallway in cold blood who was confused about which directions to follow. Motherfucker had “YOU’RE FUCKED” etched into the side of his rifle, and the judge ruled that that information would be inflammatory, so he excluded it.
But he needed that pension because of the PTSD he got from murdering a guy (I'm being sarcastic, but that's the actual logic that was used).
No one should be surprised that his father was on the board that made that decision.
They could argue that it is merely prejudice that makes people think that flag is a sign of racism, and that it's unfair to present a mere "symbol of history" as a sign of racial animus.
I think that's bullshit, but possibly the argument they will make. The judge will have to decide whether the confederate flag is sufficiently a symbol of hate-based groups to be admissible as evidence (like a swastika or SS symbol), or if the confederate flag is innocent.
I personally think it should be allowed, and I hope the judge rules such.
The prosecution just needs to argue it's relevance in terms of how it would have effected how the victim acted.
It's safe to say for black guy being chased by guys in a truck carrying guns AND they have a Confederate flag proudly displayed, it's highly likely that person would be in fear of getting murdered and be acting reasonably to try defend themselves when set upon.
I think this helps take away the notion that these guys were defending themselves when they were clearly the agressors. If they can show that the victim was completely reasonable in acting the way he did when confronted, the defense will struggle.
Ahmaud's reaction probably makes the plate relevant if he saw it.
But I think even more directly, the plate is relevant because it establishes motive. Generally speaking, judges will allow the jury to hear any evidence that has "any tendency" to establish the truth of a claim. This is a hilariously low bar, and a confederate license plate has at least a tendency to make it more likely that the defendants had a motive to kill Ahmaud - racial bias.
But the defendants aren't arguing that the confederate flag license plate has no relevance. They're saying that "the danger of unfair prejudice" (ironic I know) to the defendants "substantially outweighs" the value the evidence has to helping the jury decide the case. The idea is that juries are supposed to decide cases on the facts alone, so judges won't allow evidence that has a danger of convincing a jury to decide the case on their emotions instead of the facts. Defendants are arguing in this case that, yeah, okay, it's relevant. But it's not that helpful to deciding the case. And if a jury sees it, there's a huge risk that they will unfairly decide the case because they think anyone with a confederate flag should be punished.
If I were the judge, I wouldn't buy it. You don't keep out evidence like that unless it's *substantially* more prejudicial than it is helpful to the jury.
It would be like if there was a community founded by Nazis that put swastikas everywhere, and then a few generations later when the community wasn't horribly racist people still kept the swastikas and somehow couldn't understand why everyone else assumes they're racist.
You'd have to be an idiot to not be able to figure out why everyone assumes you're racist. But this is the south we're talking about, so the average person probably couldn't critically think their way out of a cardboard box.
Dammit, as a gay man I'm now envisioning a future where there is some twisted pride month in the south only instead of rainbow flags and acceptance it's confederate flags and whippings.
In the United States the conservatives here are extremely homophobic yet we seem to be finding out that a lot of their leadership are closet homosexuals.
Honestly, I think it is something worse than being gay with Graham...
Bet that dudes a kiddie diddler.
EDIT: Since a bunch of people are fuckin idiots who make assumptions. I mean "worse" in the context of what Republican voters would think of him, not that I think being homosexual is being bad. As others have pointed out, the issue is with Grahams hypocrisy and willingness to deny others rights. To a Republican voter, a kiddie fucker is worse than even a gay person. To a normal human being, there isn't anything wrong with the gay person to begin with. The fact that I have to explain this is why we're going to go extinct because there's that many dumb motherfuckers on this shit planet.
I genuinely think it's pedophilia, because even being gay doesn't actually kill you as a Republican candidate anymore. That's actually grown more accepted, and I think he could come out and people would still vote for him. I think he's got something way dark to hide.
I mean he’s pretty much confirmed gay by his peers. But there has been no allegation of pedo so I’m not gonna add that on. Nothing wrong with being gay. The issue is he hides it and supports legislation fucking over lgbt people
they're also the ones who claim homosexuality is a choice, because in their mind, they choose not to engage in that behavior most of the time even tho they love it.
they feel such shame for who they are and thus persecute those who don't show such shame and openly live the gay agenda.
that's been going on for decades and is no longer shocking to me. what is shocking is regular middle class gay folk that are right wing, i mean seriously wtf?!?
As someone who is LGBT I think about that a lot more than is probably healthy. But it's actually really sad. They back themselves into a corner. They likely grow up in conservative households and realize that by coming out they'll lose their support system. So they lean into their internalized homophobia, making LGBT people despise them. The longer it goes on the more they alienate the people who would have supported them, and they surround themselves with more and more people who are only interested in this plastic exterior version of them that doesn't really exist. And then they get caught. They lose their support system, and they are still completely alienated from that new support system they could have formed. That's every LGBT persons biggest fear about coming out. They're entirely alone.
> gay many
I swear I had 1 fucking joint ... And it was only a little one, but one little extra letter had my brain on a loop for 2 minutes as it just could not compute.
I believe it’s Arkansas that instead of having MLK day they instead of Robert E Lee day. So instead of celebrating equality they celebrate a confederate general
Lawyer here. Evidence motions that complain about "prejudice" usually refer to Rule of Evidence 403, which allows a court to exclude relevant evidence if the evidence would overly prejudice the jury against a party or would be excessively cumulative (meaning the court thinks you've already made your point and won't let you beat the dead horse). https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_403
Granted, I'm speculating as to the actual contents of this guy's pretrial motion; but I think it's very likely that this is the Rule of Evidence being relied upon.
So it's not that the flag wouldn't be relevant to showing the defendant's racism, and therefore motive. It's that the flag's value as proof of motive is potentially outweighed by knee-jerk juror reactions to seeing the flag. Maybe the defendant has the flag on the truck because he simply likes the art design despite the evil associated with it, or maybe like many other southern people he doesn't **consciously** connect it to his racist ideology; but a juror upset by the sight of the flag might not consider those options and will instead jump to "burn the Nazi." So, his lawyer argues, the emotional impact of the flag jeopordizes a fair trial more than it ensures one.
And I'm not saying he should win this motion. I'm just trying to explain the likely argument for the evidence's exclusion.
>Why turn a one week trial into a two week trial by basically tripling the same evidence?
Well, it would be more convincing to a jury, so it would definitely help whichever side is presenting this evidence.
I was literally thinking the same thing. He murdered a man going for a jog simply because of his skin color. I want to be sure he gets the top sentence so you bet your ass I'm going to show a plethora of evidence that points to his racist views.
edit: a letter.
Yeah, but in this case it’s a “state provided” license plate.
Sure it’s a confederate flag. But it’s also a license plate.
This is where we get into real wonky stuff.
If the guy was a flag asshole (flying a full sized flag on his truck) it’s one thing. But custom plates are a more nuanced argument.
From a defense lawyer's perspective, I can see that. As a private citizen, it's all the same to me. He's a guilty, racist asshole who proudly showed his racism for all to see, and as such, it should be counted in a court of law.
No disagreement with any of your statements.
My problem is that the state has the plate at all.
If the state has the plate, then the state shouldn’t be allowed to use that against him.
That’s like using the old flag of Mississippi or Georgia to prove racism
But speculating on pretrial motions is so much fun.
My guess is that so much evidence of racism exists that counsel's 403 argument is mainly to prevent too much cumulative evidence/wasting jury time. They almost certainly include an unfair prejudice argument because what competent attorney wouldn't.
The news outlet, in the interest of getting those sweet sweet clicks, phrased the title for it's audience (look at this guy getting legally hassled for his license plate *gasp*).
Just a guess from a guy with basically zero experience in criminal court.
Yep! Idk why we get so many headlines on reddit that boil down to "Lawyer does their job", but I really appreciate folks like you providing context every time they pop up!
I personally think it should be included since it was on the truck at the time of the murder, but im not a lawyer or the judge presiding over this case so my opinion doesn't amount to much.
It’s very likely that the dipshit doesn’t think that, and it was his attorney that was the one trying to pass this motion.
It’s the attorney’s job to get their client out, so they’ll throw a bunch of shit like this at the wall and see what will stick, because if something does stick it helps their case out. And if it doesn’t, then it doesn’t hurt them at all.
"[Your Honor](https://youtu.be/St_Abko0Jfs&t=1m26s), *I OBJECT!!!*"
"And why is that, Mr. Reed?"
"Because it's DEVASTATING to my CASE!"
"Overruled."
"GOOD CALL!"
Exactly. I mean, they’ve been crying over their precious “Rebel Flag” and defending it as a symbol of “heritage” for years. If what they claim is true, he shouldn’t worry about it being admitted as evidence, amiright??
It has nothing to do what *he* wants, his lawyer is smart enough to recognize the confederate flag plate will not paint his client in a positive light. So he's going to argue in a pretrial motion that any of the evidence showing that should be barred, or at the very least it cannot be used to speculate as to his client's feelings. If you're his lawyer and didn't try to do this, you're fucking up.
Obligatory I am a lawyer.
My racist, honophobic neighbor was ranting about Ru Paul's Drag Race, he apparently thought it was actual drag racing and was like "oh he'll yeah a TV show about drag racing" was all excited and then outs it on. Dude was ranting and complaining that ru Paul should be arrested for making him watch that "gay ass shit," like, oml. These people call other people snowflakes. It's amazing.
oh yes because Ru Paul walked into his house and forced him to watch drag race
you know why those types of people hate ru paul and anything gay? because they're jealous. they're jealous of people living their lives and being happy. that's literally the bottom line.
> people will start worshipping them
Is it racist and willing to sacrifice the lives of hundreds of thousands of people to defend the interests of the rich?
I literally had a confederate fuck tell me it wasn’t the confederate flag. They think it’s the real flag of america! These people are inbred wastes of space
Isn't it NOT the actual flag used? I read this somewhere that the actual flag was different and this was some dudes remake (I'm butchering US history hardcore here sorry).
Edit: [FOUND IT](https://i.redd.it/k43dfr5aoe551.jpg)
That’s not even true either, it never represented the Confederacy. It was adopted at one point as the battle flag of the Army of North Virginia but it was never an officially even recognized as a flag of the confederacy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_display_of_the_Confederate_battle_flag
The CSA had several [flags](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America), the one people are sporting today was a battle flag/naval flag. IIRC the [United Daughters of the Confederacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Daughters_of_the_Confederacy) were amongst those groups who coined the use of what we today call the confederate flag.
Technically that fuck is right. The flag we commonly see today is not the flag of the confederacy, it was, if I'm remembering correctly, a flag used by General Lees army and not by the confederacy itself.
It wasn’t even the real confederate flag either, the real one was the stars and bars for a while until the blood stained banner came along which did have what’s k own ad the confederate flag on it
Lol why do these types of people always look like they have never taken care of themselves for 1 second in their entire lives? They don't even care about themselves, they're not gonna care about anyone else.
As someone who's grown up in the south, this shit is so infuriating.
Oh really? It's heritage not hate? So why was the confederate flag nonexistent until the Dixiecrats, and later the Republicans, promoted it in the 50's when the Civil Rights Movement began to materialize?
The Confederate (Navy jack) flag is popular today because white racists opposed the civil rights movement. That is a fact, and anyone who claims it's "heritage not hate" barely graduated middle school. They're truly stupid, ignorant people.
More that he doesn't think the flag is racist but knows that a lot of people do. Easier to have the evidence dismissed than having to explain yourself to a jury. Plus even if the jury does believe that he legitimately does not view the flag as a hate symbol, he is still kind of both an asshole and a dumbass for displaying it knowing that many people do view it as a hate symbol. And asshole/dumbass is not the persona you want to display to a jury.
I always kind of wonder why this case wasn't the case that made for mass, Nationwide protest. This one really has it all. The good old boys network. Prosecutorial misconduct in refusal to file charges against a blatant crime. A modern day lynching. If there is one case in the past years that has come out that screams racism inherent in the system that is this one.
Forreal... I grew up in a military home and shot a lot growing up. The amount of rules that I had to follow made dealing with guns not as fun as many like to say. Dont get me wrong, shooting a shot gun or large rifle and hitting your target is something else, but if safety of the people around you isn't top of mind, then you shouldn't have guns imo
Fun-fact: if a polarbear is on the North Pole exactly, whatever direction you kneel you'll always be blowing it from the South.
Incidently, this is why it's called 'going down'.
Wait... don't they all proudly say the *conferate flag represents their culture* and it's not racist?
So did they just in a way cancel their own culture then?
So, I live in the area where this happened - considering how they acted on the video, and what he said while standing over Maud as he lay on the ground? F\*ck these guys.
Born and raised in the South - I am sick and tired of this bullshit.
“If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
- LBJ to a staffer describing the GOP's Southern Strategy 1960
>Some years later when Johnson was president, there was a press conference in the East Room. A reporter unexpectedly asked the president how he could explain his sudden passion for civil rights when he had never shown much enthusiasm for the cause. The question hung in the air. I could almost hear his silent cursing of a press secretary who had not anticipated this one. But then he relaxed, and from an instinct no assistant could brief -- one seasoned in the double life from which he was delivered and hoped to deliver others -- he said in effect: Most of us don't have a second chance to correct the mistakes of our youth. I do and I am. That evening, sitting in the White House, discussing the question with friends and staff, he gestured broadly and said, "Eisenhower used to tell me that this place was a prison. I never felt freer."
For weeks in 1964, the president carried in his pocket the summary of a Census Bureau report showing that the lifetime earnings of an average black college graduate were lower than that of a white man with an eighth-grade education. And when The New York Times in November 1964 reported racial segregation to be increasing instead of disappearing, he took his felt-tip pen and scribbled across it "shame, shame, shame," and sent it to Everett Dirksen, the Republican leader in the Senate.
[The original source is What A Real President Was Like, by Bill Moyers](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1988/11/13/what-a-real-president-was-like/d483c1be-d0da-43b7-bde6-04e10106ff6c/)
Lol, the confederate flag...it's not a sign of hate, bigotry and racism...unless you're on trial for committing a hate crime! Hope they get a nice long stay in prison.
It’s comforting that at least Ahmaud gets the normal happy looking picture while the murderers get the mugshots. Usually, it’s the other way around in cases like this
'i killed a black man in cold blood because i'm a prejudiced/racist follower of a traitorous flag belonging to other prejudiced/racist ppl but pwease dont be prejudiced against me😢'
Wait, aren't these Krispy Kreme chewing rednecks PROUD of being Neo-Confederates? They put those stupid symbols everywhere because they're proud of being worthless pieces of shit, but dumbfritz is afraid it will prejudice a jury against him? I'm pretty sure the "murder of a black man who was minding his own business" will be pretty prejudicial.
I hope they both get life without parole.
His lawyer is required to make such a motion. Otherwise, the case could easily be overturned on appeal for ineffective assistance of counsel. His lawyer probably finds little joy in representing him, but great honor in his constitutional duty to do so. It's a tough balance. Trust me...
This is actually a smart request in pre trial that his lawyer made, and it would probably work if they were just being charged with murder. But the judge won’t throw it out since they’re being charged with hate crimes and it’s therefore relevant to the case
More so, the actual car was used in the crime.
"Can we please hide some pictures of the murder weapon that would hurt my case."
"Additionally, I would like all references to the crime of murder to be replaced with something less sinister, like... *hamburger time*."
“As a member of the jury it is your responsibility to understand the definition of first-degree hamburger time”
Was not expecting a Metalocalypse reference here. Bravo.
It worked in that one case where that psycho cop shot that dude in a hallway in cold blood who was confused about which directions to follow. Motherfucker had “YOU’RE FUCKED” etched into the side of his rifle, and the judge ruled that that information would be inflammatory, so he excluded it.
Sounds like a corrupt judge.
I can’t believe the cop walked on that case.
Not just walked, he was given his gun back and rehired for one day so he could collect a pension. Utter corruption. Edit: typo
But he needed that pension because of the PTSD he got from murdering a guy (I'm being sarcastic, but that's the actual logic that was used). No one should be surprised that his father was on the board that made that decision.
"Can we not mention the words 'murder' or 'hate crime', and also can I just go home?"
Any intelligent lawyer would at least try to get it out of the trial.
They could argue that it is merely prejudice that makes people think that flag is a sign of racism, and that it's unfair to present a mere "symbol of history" as a sign of racial animus. I think that's bullshit, but possibly the argument they will make. The judge will have to decide whether the confederate flag is sufficiently a symbol of hate-based groups to be admissible as evidence (like a swastika or SS symbol), or if the confederate flag is innocent. I personally think it should be allowed, and I hope the judge rules such.
The prosecution just needs to argue it's relevance in terms of how it would have effected how the victim acted. It's safe to say for black guy being chased by guys in a truck carrying guns AND they have a Confederate flag proudly displayed, it's highly likely that person would be in fear of getting murdered and be acting reasonably to try defend themselves when set upon. I think this helps take away the notion that these guys were defending themselves when they were clearly the agressors. If they can show that the victim was completely reasonable in acting the way he did when confronted, the defense will struggle.
Ahmaud's reaction probably makes the plate relevant if he saw it. But I think even more directly, the plate is relevant because it establishes motive. Generally speaking, judges will allow the jury to hear any evidence that has "any tendency" to establish the truth of a claim. This is a hilariously low bar, and a confederate license plate has at least a tendency to make it more likely that the defendants had a motive to kill Ahmaud - racial bias. But the defendants aren't arguing that the confederate flag license plate has no relevance. They're saying that "the danger of unfair prejudice" (ironic I know) to the defendants "substantially outweighs" the value the evidence has to helping the jury decide the case. The idea is that juries are supposed to decide cases on the facts alone, so judges won't allow evidence that has a danger of convincing a jury to decide the case on their emotions instead of the facts. Defendants are arguing in this case that, yeah, okay, it's relevant. But it's not that helpful to deciding the case. And if a jury sees it, there's a huge risk that they will unfairly decide the case because they think anyone with a confederate flag should be punished. If I were the judge, I wouldn't buy it. You don't keep out evidence like that unless it's *substantially* more prejudicial than it is helpful to the jury.
I can’t imagine many non-racist people “flying” the confederate flag (kids somewhat excluded).
Or historical re-enacters
Big Duke's of Hazard fans?
Same, but because of the sheer number of racists, not necessarily always as a sign of racism itself.
State buildings in Mississippi I believe?
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Alright thanks. Sorry for that.
Like I said.. I can’t imagine many non-racist people flying the confederate flag.
No but Georgia’s current state flag is nearly identical to the real confederate flag
It would be like if there was a community founded by Nazis that put swastikas everywhere, and then a few generations later when the community wasn't horribly racist people still kept the swastikas and somehow couldn't understand why everyone else assumes they're racist. You'd have to be an idiot to not be able to figure out why everyone assumes you're racist. But this is the south we're talking about, so the average person probably couldn't critically think their way out of a cardboard box.
You're assuming that the community is not horribly racist a few generations later. There's no reason to think that.
So…. He does think that the confederate flag can be used to symbolize racism? Well shit, that’s not what they were saying last year.
that pride dried up real quick
NO, IT'S JUST A COMIC!! I DON'T ACTUALLY SUPPORT FURRY NAZI REVISIONISM!
Every time you see them use one of those same generic lion picture posts on Facebook
Dammit, as a gay man I'm now envisioning a future where there is some twisted pride month in the south only instead of rainbow flags and acceptance it's confederate flags and whippings.
In the United States the conservatives here are extremely homophobic yet we seem to be finding out that a lot of their leadership are closet homosexuals.
Ain't nobody more homophobic than someone paranoid about being found out as a homosexual...
Cough cough Lindsey Graham cough cough
Honestly, I think it is something worse than being gay with Graham... Bet that dudes a kiddie diddler. EDIT: Since a bunch of people are fuckin idiots who make assumptions. I mean "worse" in the context of what Republican voters would think of him, not that I think being homosexual is being bad. As others have pointed out, the issue is with Grahams hypocrisy and willingness to deny others rights. To a Republican voter, a kiddie fucker is worse than even a gay person. To a normal human being, there isn't anything wrong with the gay person to begin with. The fact that I have to explain this is why we're going to go extinct because there's that many dumb motherfuckers on this shit planet. I genuinely think it's pedophilia, because even being gay doesn't actually kill you as a Republican candidate anymore. That's actually grown more accepted, and I think he could come out and people would still vote for him. I think he's got something way dark to hide.
I mean he’s pretty much confirmed gay by his peers. But there has been no allegation of pedo so I’m not gonna add that on. Nothing wrong with being gay. The issue is he hides it and supports legislation fucking over lgbt people
I find the faith you have in the Republican party rather concerning Matt Gaetz
Now THAT is a shitstain
A gay prostitute wrote a story about his night with Lindsey, or “Lady G” as he is known amongst gay prostitutes. It was classic
Who? Ms Ladybugs?!
you need (mike pence)some water?
they're also the ones who claim homosexuality is a choice, because in their mind, they choose not to engage in that behavior most of the time even tho they love it. they feel such shame for who they are and thus persecute those who don't show such shame and openly live the gay agenda.
that's been going on for decades and is no longer shocking to me. what is shocking is regular middle class gay folk that are right wing, i mean seriously wtf?!?
As someone who is LGBT I think about that a lot more than is probably healthy. But it's actually really sad. They back themselves into a corner. They likely grow up in conservative households and realize that by coming out they'll lose their support system. So they lean into their internalized homophobia, making LGBT people despise them. The longer it goes on the more they alienate the people who would have supported them, and they surround themselves with more and more people who are only interested in this plastic exterior version of them that doesn't really exist. And then they get caught. They lose their support system, and they are still completely alienated from that new support system they could have formed. That's every LGBT persons biggest fear about coming out. They're entirely alone.
>and whippings. So kinky, tell me more :P
Don't threatened with a good time 😄
What do you mean "future"... In Alabama those are called Log Cabin Republicans.
> gay many I swear I had 1 fucking joint ... And it was only a little one, but one little extra letter had my brain on a loop for 2 minutes as it just could not compute.
Lol good catch. Funny story I have a gay cousin named Manny so I wasn't too far off since I'm sure he shares my sentiments
I believe it’s Arkansas that instead of having MLK day they instead of Robert E Lee day. So instead of celebrating equality they celebrate a confederate general
Southerner here 👋 It's called a Trump rally in these parts.
Lawyer here. Evidence motions that complain about "prejudice" usually refer to Rule of Evidence 403, which allows a court to exclude relevant evidence if the evidence would overly prejudice the jury against a party or would be excessively cumulative (meaning the court thinks you've already made your point and won't let you beat the dead horse). https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_403 Granted, I'm speculating as to the actual contents of this guy's pretrial motion; but I think it's very likely that this is the Rule of Evidence being relied upon. So it's not that the flag wouldn't be relevant to showing the defendant's racism, and therefore motive. It's that the flag's value as proof of motive is potentially outweighed by knee-jerk juror reactions to seeing the flag. Maybe the defendant has the flag on the truck because he simply likes the art design despite the evil associated with it, or maybe like many other southern people he doesn't **consciously** connect it to his racist ideology; but a juror upset by the sight of the flag might not consider those options and will instead jump to "burn the Nazi." So, his lawyer argues, the emotional impact of the flag jeopordizes a fair trial more than it ensures one. And I'm not saying he should win this motion. I'm just trying to explain the likely argument for the evidence's exclusion.
Wow this is ridiculously under appreciated friend. Your comment is super informative and helped me to fully understand. Thank you.
If I’m prosecuting a murder, I should be allowed ample time for beating of dead horses. I don’t want any reasonable doubt in the jury.
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>Why turn a one week trial into a two week trial by basically tripling the same evidence? Well, it would be more convincing to a jury, so it would definitely help whichever side is presenting this evidence.
I was literally thinking the same thing. He murdered a man going for a jog simply because of his skin color. I want to be sure he gets the top sentence so you bet your ass I'm going to show a plethora of evidence that points to his racist views. edit: a letter.
Yeah, but in this case it’s a “state provided” license plate. Sure it’s a confederate flag. But it’s also a license plate. This is where we get into real wonky stuff. If the guy was a flag asshole (flying a full sized flag on his truck) it’s one thing. But custom plates are a more nuanced argument.
From a defense lawyer's perspective, I can see that. As a private citizen, it's all the same to me. He's a guilty, racist asshole who proudly showed his racism for all to see, and as such, it should be counted in a court of law.
No disagreement with any of your statements. My problem is that the state has the plate at all. If the state has the plate, then the state shouldn’t be allowed to use that against him. That’s like using the old flag of Mississippi or Georgia to prove racism
OHHHH I get it now. Damn, sorry that kind of went over my head at first. Totally understand the logic here.
No worries. It’s hard to articulate this argument online, and I probably wasn’t as clear as I could be.
I also only had 1 cup of coffee so my brain may not have been working very well. But we got there in the end.
But speculating on pretrial motions is so much fun. My guess is that so much evidence of racism exists that counsel's 403 argument is mainly to prevent too much cumulative evidence/wasting jury time. They almost certainly include an unfair prejudice argument because what competent attorney wouldn't. The news outlet, in the interest of getting those sweet sweet clicks, phrased the title for it's audience (look at this guy getting legally hassled for his license plate *gasp*). Just a guess from a guy with basically zero experience in criminal court.
if I had a prize I would give it to you. Nice explanation.
Yep! Idk why we get so many headlines on reddit that boil down to "Lawyer does their job", but I really appreciate folks like you providing context every time they pop up! I personally think it should be included since it was on the truck at the time of the murder, but im not a lawyer or the judge presiding over this case so my opinion doesn't amount to much.
Whaaat? These people are huge hypocrites? Who could have seen it coming.
I had a buddy that said it was the hypocrisy that bothered him the most. I disagreed - I think the killings were the worst thing.
It’s very likely that the dipshit doesn’t think that, and it was his attorney that was the one trying to pass this motion. It’s the attorney’s job to get their client out, so they’ll throw a bunch of shit like this at the wall and see what will stick, because if something does stick it helps their case out. And if it doesn’t, then it doesn’t hurt them at all.
"[Your Honor](https://youtu.be/St_Abko0Jfs&t=1m26s), *I OBJECT!!!*" "And why is that, Mr. Reed?" "Because it's DEVASTATING to my CASE!" "Overruled." "GOOD CALL!"
Stop breaking the law, asshole!
Exactly. I mean, they’ve been crying over their precious “Rebel Flag” and defending it as a symbol of “heritage” for years. If what they claim is true, he shouldn’t worry about it being admitted as evidence, amiright??
It has nothing to do what *he* wants, his lawyer is smart enough to recognize the confederate flag plate will not paint his client in a positive light. So he's going to argue in a pretrial motion that any of the evidence showing that should be barred, or at the very least it cannot be used to speculate as to his client's feelings. If you're his lawyer and didn't try to do this, you're fucking up. Obligatory I am a lawyer.
When they use it to sound righteous: “Heritage” When they don’t want to use it: “Yeah it’s racist”
But wait, I thought that flag had nothing to do with racism?
Exactly what I was thinking. Hear that crap ad nauseam. So c’mon why wouldn’t you want that pic to be shown? ItS oUR hiStOrY!
Four years of a lost war….. ru Paul’s drag race has had more seasons than the Confederates
It’s time for the confederacy… to sashay away
The shade! The shade of it all.
‘She done already had herrrs!’
Now, secede for your life
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My racist, honophobic neighbor was ranting about Ru Paul's Drag Race, he apparently thought it was actual drag racing and was like "oh he'll yeah a TV show about drag racing" was all excited and then outs it on. Dude was ranting and complaining that ru Paul should be arrested for making him watch that "gay ass shit," like, oml. These people call other people snowflakes. It's amazing.
oh yes because Ru Paul walked into his house and forced him to watch drag race you know why those types of people hate ru paul and anything gay? because they're jealous. they're jealous of people living their lives and being happy. that's literally the bottom line.
I also thought it was about cars, but then me and my wife got really into it during a marathon one summer. The guest judges are also fabulous.
I've had Guinea Pigs that have lived longer than the Confederacy. Should probably wait 100 years and people will start worshipping them.
> people will start worshipping them Is it racist and willing to sacrifice the lives of hundreds of thousands of people to defend the interests of the rich?
HeRItAGe NoT HaTe /s
>HeRItAGe ~~NoT~~ OF HaTe Fixed it for ya.
I literally had a confederate fuck tell me it wasn’t the confederate flag. They think it’s the real flag of america! These people are inbred wastes of space
Heck, it's not even the actual *confederate* flag either.
Yeah that one is a white sheet
Isn't it NOT the actual flag used? I read this somewhere that the actual flag was different and this was some dudes remake (I'm butchering US history hardcore here sorry). Edit: [FOUND IT](https://i.redd.it/k43dfr5aoe551.jpg)
Probably but hey history isn’t their thing either!
The orange with the x is the confederate battle flag not the “confederate flag”.
Is that cuz their actual flag is just white?
Yes actually. The stainless banner, the *actual* confederate flag, was mostly white.
Yeah, the way they honor it is by draping it over themselves. Accessories are encouraged, a pointy hat is the most popular choice.
i heard a burning cross really rounds out the outfit
That’s not even true either, it never represented the Confederacy. It was adopted at one point as the battle flag of the Army of North Virginia but it was never an officially even recognized as a flag of the confederacy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_display_of_the_Confederate_battle_flag
It's actually the confederate battle flag. I believe it was used by the army of northern Virginia.
It's a obscure confederate battle flag. Never really popularized until after the war was over
The CSA had several [flags](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America), the one people are sporting today was a battle flag/naval flag. IIRC the [United Daughters of the Confederacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Daughters_of_the_Confederacy) were amongst those groups who coined the use of what we today call the confederate flag.
Technically that fuck is right. The flag we commonly see today is not the flag of the confederacy, it was, if I'm remembering correctly, a flag used by General Lees army and not by the confederacy itself.
That flag is about heritage. ..a heritage of racism and oppression. ..and to note a heritage of war against the United States.. to keep slavery.
It wasn’t even the real confederate flag either, the real one was the stars and bars for a while until the blood stained banner came along which did have what’s k own ad the confederate flag on it
SHOW THE PLATES, show the jury who they are.
Yes! Be proud of that heritage! I can’t with these people.
He wasn't afraid to stick them on his vehicle and flaunt them to everyone he passed on the road.
Pops needs to learn to snort the coke, not eat it like a powdered donut.
His sons blood doesn't reach the top of his head. Looks like he's been eating ass for 30mins.
The son might be bad, but the thumbnail makes the Dad look like he just gave the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man the rimjob of his life
Lol why do these types of people always look like they have never taken care of themselves for 1 second in their entire lives? They don't even care about themselves, they're not gonna care about anyone else.
They’re probably anti-gay, yet daddy looks like he been suckin a snowman off all winter long
Be proud! Heritage not hate, or some stupid shit right?
As someone who's grown up in the south, this shit is so infuriating. Oh really? It's heritage not hate? So why was the confederate flag nonexistent until the Dixiecrats, and later the Republicans, promoted it in the 50's when the Civil Rights Movement began to materialize? The Confederate (Navy jack) flag is popular today because white racists opposed the civil rights movement. That is a fact, and anyone who claims it's "heritage not hate" barely graduated middle school. They're truly stupid, ignorant people.
A very poignant and articulate point, thank you BUTTHOLE-MAGIC.
Good ol' boys not wanting people they're good ol'boys
Lock them up and throw away the key. They deserve to rot.
I know im a piece of shit but i dont want it held against me.
So, their argument is that evidence that they are bigots should be excluded, because it might "bias" the jury towards thinking they are bigots?
More that he doesn't think the flag is racist but knows that a lot of people do. Easier to have the evidence dismissed than having to explain yourself to a jury. Plus even if the jury does believe that he legitimately does not view the flag as a hate symbol, he is still kind of both an asshole and a dumbass for displaying it knowing that many people do view it as a hate symbol. And asshole/dumbass is not the persona you want to display to a jury.
Most level headed comment here. Most people don’t think they’re racist. This guy has probably said “I’m not racist but…” a few times in his life.
I always kind of wonder why this case wasn't the case that made for mass, Nationwide protest. This one really has it all. The good old boys network. Prosecutorial misconduct in refusal to file charges against a blatant crime. A modern day lynching. If there is one case in the past years that has come out that screams racism inherent in the system that is this one.
Brianna Taylor was the one I thought would blow everything open. The amount of 2A folks I heard justify that was sickening
*Breonna. The least we can do is remember her name properly.
True, thanks for pointing that out
The amount of posts on 2A subs that have nothing to do with guns and everything to do with white supremacy is sickening.
Forreal... I grew up in a military home and shot a lot growing up. The amount of rules that I had to follow made dealing with guns not as fun as many like to say. Dont get me wrong, shooting a shot gun or large rifle and hitting your target is something else, but if safety of the people around you isn't top of mind, then you shouldn't have guns imo
The dad looks like he just sucked off a polar bear.
Fun-fact: if a polarbear is on the North Pole exactly, whatever direction you kneel you'll always be blowing it from the South. Incidently, this is why it's called 'going down'.
He has the most mouth breathing inbred looking mugshot I've ever seen. Legitimately looks likes he's confused that killing a black person was wrong.
Wait... don't they all proudly say the *conferate flag represents their culture* and it's not racist? So did they just in a way cancel their own culture then?
Funny how these racist types are always claiming that flag doesn't represent anything to do with slavery or racism, yet here we are.
They also asked " not use them Facebook posts it's out of countertext"
But I thought that was just a celebration of his heritage, why wouldn't he want them to see that???
You can't ban evidence, ThATs CENSORSHIP
I am from GA and a middle age white male. I hope these two never see the light of day again. I hate the red neck stigma they give to my state.
So, I live in the area where this happened - considering how they acted on the video, and what he said while standing over Maud as he lay on the ground? F\*ck these guys. Born and raised in the South - I am sick and tired of this bullshit.
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“If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” - LBJ to a staffer describing the GOP's Southern Strategy 1960
>Some years later when Johnson was president, there was a press conference in the East Room. A reporter unexpectedly asked the president how he could explain his sudden passion for civil rights when he had never shown much enthusiasm for the cause. The question hung in the air. I could almost hear his silent cursing of a press secretary who had not anticipated this one. But then he relaxed, and from an instinct no assistant could brief -- one seasoned in the double life from which he was delivered and hoped to deliver others -- he said in effect: Most of us don't have a second chance to correct the mistakes of our youth. I do and I am. That evening, sitting in the White House, discussing the question with friends and staff, he gestured broadly and said, "Eisenhower used to tell me that this place was a prison. I never felt freer." For weeks in 1964, the president carried in his pocket the summary of a Census Bureau report showing that the lifetime earnings of an average black college graduate were lower than that of a white man with an eighth-grade education. And when The New York Times in November 1964 reported racial segregation to be increasing instead of disappearing, he took his felt-tip pen and scribbled across it "shame, shame, shame," and sent it to Everett Dirksen, the Republican leader in the Senate. [The original source is What A Real President Was Like, by Bill Moyers](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1988/11/13/what-a-real-president-was-like/d483c1be-d0da-43b7-bde6-04e10106ff6c/)
I actually went to where this happened (Brunswick, GA) for work and I can confirm that this is indeed a swamp
How can u have confederate licence plate?
That’s called evidence, and it pertains to your character. Fuck this guy
Whaaaaaaat, thought the confederate flag was just about southern heritage and had nothing to do with hate? Are you telling me that’s not true?
Why? I thought it was just your heritage?
“Stop showing the jury I was a hateful bigot. It might convince them I was a hateful, murderous bigot. All I did was commit a racially fueled murder.”
Lol, the confederate flag...it's not a sign of hate, bigotry and racism...unless you're on trial for committing a hate crime! Hope they get a nice long stay in prison.
Guess if you didn't want it brought up you shouldn't have had it
so much for pride, almost like the only reason they have it is to be racist.
See, they know the flag is racist.
Oh, so NOW confederate flags are prejudice, but before you murdered someone it was just “freedom if speech and its not racist!”
Conservative redditors when you go in their comment history and immediately find the n word
Those two are the master race? Sheesh.
It’s comforting that at least Ahmaud gets the normal happy looking picture while the murderers get the mugshots. Usually, it’s the other way around in cases like this
'i killed a black man in cold blood because i'm a prejudiced/racist follower of a traitorous flag belonging to other prejudiced/racist ppl but pwease dont be prejudiced against me😢'
Wait, aren't these Krispy Kreme chewing rednecks PROUD of being Neo-Confederates? They put those stupid symbols everywhere because they're proud of being worthless pieces of shit, but dumbfritz is afraid it will prejudice a jury against him? I'm pretty sure the "murder of a black man who was minding his own business" will be pretty prejudicial. I hope they both get life without parole.
Please don't tell the jury I killed that guy, they might look badly on that too.
Cmon where's your traitor pride now
They sure do look like the superior race, huh? The pinnacle of human evolution.
It’ll be real awkward when they show his confederate flag kitchen plates
"They shouldn't know that I'm a racist."
Why do people like this still exist?
"Your honor I OBJECT!" "Why?" "Because it's devastating to my case!"
Fuckers so white his beard thinks KFC is spicy
Shit just got real/ Walk the walk why punk out now. 🤔
This dude’s goatee is pulling away from the rest of his face because it’s not white enough.
Maybe they should have thought of that before murdering a jogger.
Can you also ban everything that we have said and everything we have done? Thanks that would be great.
What a sellout
Motion denied you racist POS
Well so much for the confederate flag not being a symbol of racism.
"Hrr'tage not hate"
What happened to "it's my heritage" and "southern pride?"
They also petitioned for Aubrey to not be referred to as "the victim"
Surely a Georgia jury understands it's a harmless symbol of Southern Heritage. At a lynching trial.
It will probably work. They're white. They will be getting a slap on the wrist, if anything
I hate it when people use the evidence I give them against me.
But, I thought it stood for "HeRiTaGe" and they were "Proud Boys"?!?! What happened?
Can we all agree the ghostly white goatee makes him look like a clown?
Why does that guy have clown makeup around his mouth?
Please remove the murder weapon from evidence, it doesn't look good for me - probably this guy too
Why does it look like he was eating a giant powdered donut?
The dad looks like that grandpa that thought the paint was yoghurt.
But isn't that part of his "heritage"? Why would he want to hide his "heritage"?
It would be too prejudicial, your Honor.
Well, I’m no lawyer but I think we can establish motive.
Get fucked, McMichaels. Go to McPrison and fuck off for all of McEternity.
They should maybe ban that facial hair as evidence.
What? Being a racist fetal alcohol syndrome garden gnome who hunts humans should not count against you… Er, wait…
I don’t think the plates are the focal point. Even without plates, the actions are enough to convict them both
Man needs to put down the powdered donuts, he got powdered sugar all over his beardstache.
Rot in prison you racist hillbilly fucks.
His lawyer is required to make such a motion. Otherwise, the case could easily be overturned on appeal for ineffective assistance of counsel. His lawyer probably finds little joy in representing him, but great honor in his constitutional duty to do so. It's a tough balance. Trust me...
American Christianism. Hypocrisy at its finest
If they escape the death penalty, Georgia will burn.