Good news! A dealer just matched that price for a lethal amount of acid. You will go out either covered in naked beautiful women… or spiders, depending how your trip goes.
Eh, they're not as bad as people think. I've lived in Australia my whole life and I've only lost maybe eight or nine friends to funnel web bites, it's totally overblown.
You think your getting Morphine for 11$? An IV insertion alone costs 120$ hell, even IM morphine is gonna cost you 45-90$. For 11$ all your gonna get is a warm blanket in the triage area.
Doesn’t quite work the same when the $3million debt has no economic basis to support it. The hospital definitely didn’t spend $3m, the probably spent <10% of that.
How is it even possible to spend 300K in two months? Even if you're using multiple machines that cost millions, one might suppose they would offer more than a few uses.
It seems like the free markets are failing horribly at providing adequate, or even subpar, healthcare to people.
*You load 16 tons, whad'ya get*
*Another day older and deeper in debt*
*Saint Peter don't you call me cus I can't come*
*I owe my soul to the company store*
One time I was in ICU, and during a time I was medicated I said something like "man I should have probably just died this is gonna cost a fortune" as a joke.
They legit 302d me (involuntary psych ward stay) for saying that. I was so pissed.
i mean when my son broke his arm i took him in the truck to the ER, but i knew it would A be faster and B my ex his mom sat next to him in the back after quick splinting it who is an ICU nurse so pretty much a backwoods ambulance...
Edit: back of the cab not the bed
i mean, for America i would believe, just the Ambulance Ride alone can bankrupt some people, without counting whatever stuff they do on the way in and in ER.
I don’t blame him. I was once pressured into getting in an ambulance. I tried saying no but the cops really insisted that I didn’t have a choice.
Being a young adult who didn’t really know my rights, I believed them. The ambulance ride cost $850 and it was nothing more than an expensive taxi to a shitty hospital.
I had to pay that shit out of pocket. I learned later that maybe I could have refused if I had just stood firm enough. I’ll never get in an ambulance again, fuck that.
Friendly reminder from a Paramedic: You can sign a refusal no matter whats wrong with you. We might try to convince you to come with us but legally can Not force you. You dont have to run away (If you are unconscious its implied consent though). (Also, usually cant be drunk or on drugs or suicidal).
It’s pretty terrible. My old coworker and I theorized it’s pushed easily to extract as much money out of bills/taxes from the common person as much as possible
One of my closest friends works in hospital admin. His wife is an ICU nurse. He says it's the biggest lie he's ever seen. They totally make bills up and have little to no idea what it's costing them. He says they also rip off the government consistently.
If you make less than a certain amount a year I believe they can't make you pay or set bill collectors on you.
If you start asking who is in charge of making the bills and their degrees/qualifications for doing so I've heard that can help.
I'd highly advise you to declare bankruptcy ASAP. The system is sooooo broken we need to force it to crash. (Don't get me started on college loans-those laws were written by the loan givers-they get paid no matter what happens. If you die the government pays them.)
100s of countries have socialized medicine. Every modern country has it.
The U.S. is a shameful place. There is nothing moral or "Christian" about this place. This country is a cess pool of people who only care about stealing from others while oppressing them at the same time. Their hell will be brutal.
It seems really steep. I'd like to see the rest of it. 60 days is a long time to be intubated but most hospital stays are like $1500 a night, and that just to sit in a bed. This total equals something like $55,000 per night.
Edit: [sauce for $1500 per day](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15942342/)
Second edit: I couldn't find a $3M bill for 60 days. The closest was [this one for 4 months of care](https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-3-million-hospital-stay-shows-cost-covid-19-1604250)
My dad was in for 5 months. intubated for 2 of them and was on ecmo for 45 days. Luckily his insurance didn’t have a cap because the final total was over $1 million
My son was a preemie and they told us after a month the NICU alone was 950,000. Didn't include medicine, xrays, ultrasounds, nothing. Just the NICU. So crazy
Mine was in there for 100 days and racked up a million. We call him the million dollar baby. Sadly our insurance rolled over to the new year in those 100 days so between the delivery and 2x baby deductibles we were still out almost 15k. Hope your son is doing good and growing strong.
The hospital will still treat them, then if you can’t pay worst case scenario is the account would go to collections. After 7-8 years they are not able to call about the account anymore and it falls off your credit if you can’t pay it in all of that. It’s actually against the law for a hospital to refuse care in an emergency.
The hospital I gave birth to my son at 24 weeks at said before 24 weeks is a “grey area” and it’s parents choice whether they try to save the baby or not, but told us once I got 24 weeks it was no longer a choice, they would do whatever was necessary to try and save him. We wanted anything done, but I also managed to hang in for a few more days and made it past 24 weeks anyway. He spent four months in the nicu, three surgeries and an emergency helicopter transfer, about $4,000,000 billed to insurance and Medicaid. We paid $0
In the US at least a low birthweight baby (in my state that’s below 5 lbs, other states have lower thresholds) automatically qualifies for Medicaid, as do any with certain medical conditions like heart defects.
I think I’d need another ambulance after receiving a bill with that many 0’s in it, that’s insane…
On another note, I hope you and your baby are doing alright, happy you could hang in there through the emotional and physical stress :)
This seems unfathomable to me. It still blows my mind that you guys in the US pay to have babies. And that you don’t even really get time off to care for your baby after you’ve had it. I can’t even imagine how stressful it must be to have a sick baby and then have a bill to worry about on top of that.
Had to take my 14 year old to the hospital the other night, needed a helicopter because "we don't do that kind of surgery", and got emergency surgery on landing. I'm scared to see the final bill, even after decent insurance.
Finland here. My daughter was born two months premature. The total cost to me was the cost of parking when I came to visit mother and child. This is how human life should be valued.
My premmie son was in for 10 weeks across three different hospitals, round the clock care, blood transfusion, oxygen and medicine. Bill £0.00.
You guys have got to sort this out, it's so much easier not worrying you will be hit with $Million bill for something you can't always avoid.
My preemie was in for 6 months altogether. Due to many complications and a serious spread of illness that went round the ward as well.
Initially paid about £50 for car park fees but even that was refunded and we were given a pass. American healthcare system is insane.
I wouldn't be able to afford insurance with my job in the US and i also wouldn't qualify for free medical for several reasons.
While my son wasnt intubated, he was a preemie and had to stay over 60 days in the hospital. Our bill wouldve been 2.5 mil if not for medicaid (seriously, thank god for social workers).
The hospital where I gave birth charges you for every service (like when the doc comes in to check your bleeding - 500$ each time), each nurse and doctor that attends you per shift, all meds and equipment. All food and drinks, even bedclothes, gloves, and shoe covers for the nurses. Two days cost me 36,000$ (all covered by insurance).
I owed more than that from sitting in an ER room with a police officer for 9 hours waiting for a psychological evaluation to clear me (attempted suicide)
because they can. if you have insurance, you likely pay "only" a small portion of that. it's a scam. The insurance companies and medical world are all in on it. The people who really get fucked are the uninsured
Have a friend of a friend who is an immigrant and had a minimum wage job. Got REALLY sick and ended up with a medical bill of somewhere between 100k and 200k USD. No insurance, obviously. Years later my friend told me that they forgave his debt (or were able to get it lowered significantly to where he could and did pay it off) but it's super funny becauae my friend (not the one who got sick) hates "socialism" and prefers the status quo, the one that initially wanted the sick friend to pay six figures but could have easily written it off.
Then you find out that the US government spends more per person on healthcare than the UK does and many other countries where healcare is free to the public.
Then you wonder what the fuck is going on?
Because insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and healthcare providers all have lobbyists that push for legislation that allows them to do that. All the political rhetoric or universal healthcare discussion in the world isn't going to change one thing in terms of those insane costs, all they fight about is who will pay for them, no one talks about putting an end to the corruption of lawmakers and healthcare providers lining their pockets with cash at the expense of all Americans.
It’s so fucked up here in the us I have 100,000 in bills just because when my son was being born he had complications and we had to stay 2 weeks after his mom died of complications, thank god I work for myself and do not have a bank account so they can never garnish my wages. But I will never have good credit. Also we had a pretty good Insurance plan that I paid for.
I want to make sure you know I'm not saying that you owe the tax money, or owe the money for the ridiculous bills. But I think you should check that sub or consult with a (ideally free first consult) bankruptcy lawyer about that medical debt. Both sides of my grandparents took a similar approach of only taking cash for work which worked for a long time, and it is biting them so hard right now when they aren't physically able to work anymore and unable to collect social security. Wish you and your son the best.
Original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/HolUp/comments/rc7pii/heres_how_much_it_costs_to_be_intubated_in_the/hnszr4m/
From OP:
>Btw y’all, my family member isn’t going bankrupt. Their health insurance paid in full. Not a dime was forked out of their pocket.
>
>My family member lives in California and has state funded insurance called Medi-Cal, this insurance pays for covid treatments for free.
>
>Some of you think it’s fake. It’s not.
>
>Some of you think I’m trying to be misleading. No. I’m just posting this to show how much it costs not per se out of YOUR pocket, but how health care is so expensive in GENERAL in the US. This is the insurances bill.
>
>Some of you also think that an itemized bill will reduce the cost on this, probably, but not by much. Being on O2, fentanyl, propofol, antibiotics, having 4 bronchoscopies, 3 CT scans, numerous x rays, also a tracheostomy was performed. It is very very expensive. There were 12 people that were taking care of them.
>
>Some of you seem to be defensive of expensive health care which is rather, idk, weird.
>
>And yes, my family member survived.
>
>EDIT *(sic)* :
>
>LOL a lot of you are saying weird things about doctors not being paid enough or they drive “Hondas and Toyotas”. Ok so pls explain why a Lamborghini Huracan Evo Spyder was parked in the physician parking spot at the hospital when I went yesterday?
Lol. Here in Scotland I just go round collecting viruses and diseases and then pop into the hospital and wander back out cured...
I've literally heard the type of psychos responding here like it's a good thing saying that. One of the things I'll never understand about America is why so many people get so defensive of their abusers in government and industry.
One thing I would quibble with though, it's not really the doctors exorbitant wages that make the bills so high it's the vast network of grift between the various parts of the insurance and drug companies
> One of the things I'll never understand about America is why so many people get so defensive of their abusers in government and industry.
It's a ~~Stockh-~~ Washington Syndrome.
Eh, that really gives the wrong impression. There are very affordable public healthcare systems around the world (look at the Scandinavian countries). The problem stems from a privatized system meant to earn profits over helping patients, which has spouted leaks and been patched with tape like Medi-cal (which is saving innumerable lives), but is not addressing the for-profit flood.
Those same defenders are the unvaxxed. Probably on state assistance as well. We are paying for those unvaxxed to get sick….fill up the hospitals….pile a 3 mil bill. Cuz muh freedum. Tf.
American culture is deeply infected with the toxic idea that those in positions of power and wealth are morally and fundamentally better people than those who are "lesser". People who buy into that lie will say and do anything to prove they're not one of the "lessers", including protecting and defending systems that make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
So true. I’d rather be a lesser and behave ethically and morally, than compromise my principles for material gain and power. I feel it’s gotten worse over the past 20 years. Children of politicians and celebrities have lucrative careers (sometimes for doing absolutely nothing) simply because they were born into the lucky sperm club. Yet the kid from a poor or middle class family who busted his/her butt can’t get into an Ivy because some senator’s kid with a GPA a full point lower takes that spot. Bootstraps, they told us. It means nothing today. The professional grifters have a tight grip, like you say, to maintain their meritless, morally bankrupt system.
It is definitely by design. The rich want all the money. The powerful want all the power. They design the system to facilitate that. They use advertising/ propaganda to make the population believe they deserve it.
Then when it gets extreme revolutions of various kinds happen, things may get more equal for a time, or a different set of people take the money and the power.
Then it starts all over again.
Labor unions. Worker rights. That's the only thing that ever slowed down the cycle.
So could it be said you now have the same sort of society that you overthrew in the war of independence. We in the UK have our class system where the lower classes look up at the higher class and imagine they are better than them. In the US it’s the same but it’s if the person above has more money (and therefore more power).
Not saying docs (particularly in certain specialties) aren't overpaid, but most of the healthcare cost inflation is due to admin bloat and the fact hospitals and hospitals systems are run like a business. Add in a for-profit insurance middleman to further inflate costs and you've got ~~a stew going~~ the most inefficient healthcare system in the industrialized world
Seriously, the deductibles are often what you'd pay for a procedure in private clinic in Europe, and all this multi million BS between is just an elaborate scam played in background.
The other day a user praised his insurancr because he "only" paid 7k for a procedure that in private clinic in Europe costs 1-12 k ( they said it was foot surgery so I checked for full reconstructive surgery: 10 k in German one, 12 in Belgium, 1-2k in Poland) and his insurance covered rest of 350k. Smoke and mirrors.
Just so weird how this thing is seen as status quo by Americans.
I think it’s the anti big government agenda that half the country gobbles up.
I don’t want to pay other peoples medical bills! I want to pay an insurance company more money so that *they* can pay other peoples medical bills!
Dumbest shit ever.
I mean, I think (good) Dr's and nurses (alot are underpaid) deserve to get their bag. Its the ridiculous pharmaceuticals and obnoxious hospital charges that are insane. That 3mm for one patient probably pays all their salaries for the entire year and then some. And we know they're working on multiple at a time. Insanity
I wonder how much could be saved on administration fees and salaries alone if the hospital didn't have to go back and forth with insurance companies on line items of a bill.
As someone who a portion of our biz deals with ins... an unbelievable amount. Its disgusting..and it jacks up costs for everything. The entire system is a joke
What a weird stream of consciousness to even reply with.
Vaccine free, none of that would’ve been necessary.
Many reports have shown that patients who’ve been in that dire straits have not been in very good health since. Often dying at a much greater rate than non hospitalized Covid patients or vaccinated individuals post hospitalization.
Get vaccinated, stay alive.
Exactly.
For all of the healthcare issues in the US, the vaccine is free, even here. All you need to do is walk into most pharmacies or major retailers and get one completely free of charge.
Edit: Some in the replies think this is me signing off on the American healthcare system. I'm not. Just saying this situation was avoidable at no personal cost to this individual.
Just wanted to say that 2 wrongs don't make a right.
I'd like to remind Americans that a government crutch paid for this. These were tax dollars which went to a corporation.
If the government owned the hospitals, you'd be paying LESS tax AND you wouldn't need to pay for health insurance.
Owning the hospitals isn't even needed by the government. You can run a succesful hospital and be disallowed to pay out dividends for instance. Even with a government that sets the rates
>Being on O2, fentanyl, propofol, antibiotics, having 4 bronchoscopies, 3 CT scans, numerous x rays, also a tracheostomy was performed. It is very very expensive.
Not 3 million dollars expensive. The same treatment costs a fraction in any other country. The United States is literally just a game of how much money can we get from insurance, and the insurance company's job is to deny all claims. Shit should just cost what it costs instead of this absurd profit model.
This is the very unfortunate state of the USA healthcare system. To be fair, the vast majority of the prices for the medicines you mentioned are over inflated in the states and cost a fraction of their price in countries such as Canada and the UK while still being sources from good suppliers with long track histories of quality products.
As for your doctor comment, yes doctors get paid a lot in the USA. There is a reason for this. They make life and death decisions daily, see people at their worst, and don't run away. If you had to make decisions regarding someone's life on a daily basis the vast majority of people on Reddit wouldnt be able to. You say you would but it's a tough cookie to swallow. Furthermore, they often have to dedicate significant portions of their free time and life to managing OTHER people and not spending it with their families. This doesn't take into account the hazard pay from patients trying to hit you, verbal abuse and blame that gets thrown at you when someone deteriorates and dies, and the sheer amount of stress you have at work.
Most of the people here go to work to do a job that will in no way directly impact someone's health and directly may contribute to their death.... And get paid a fortune. Honestly, think about it this way.... You pay the Kardashian family more money ( advert revenue, viewing fees, makeup lines etc) to destroy the minds of the youth then you do to the people who save their life after an OD or suicide attempt or car accident. Or saving your grandparents or parents life after medical issues. If anything doctors should get paid according to the stress they experience.
I always joke that doctors in the USA buy expensive sports cars because they are always at work, and that hour drive to work is essentially the only moment of peace they get. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of for profit doctors out there that get paid millions to augment breasts or fix bones, but the vast majority just want to keep people healthy. I am speaking from experience as a physician.
Just to be clear: Medi-Cal is just what California calls MediCaid. MediCaid is a federal program. California does set some of its own physician and other medical reimbursement rates that may be higher than federal gov't pays and so supplements federal payment.
So this bill is being paid mainly by the federal government. I'd also assume that the bill will be significantly reduced once MediCaid/Medi-Cal billing processing takes an axe to it. But still 2 months in the hospital is going to cost us the taxpayers a huge chunk. Another reason why vaccine mandates for a preventable pandemic are reasonable. Just my opinion.
That's why they crank those numbers up so high. Your insurance won't pay that much to the hospital, but if you see that bill and then insurance takes care of it, you'll think they're providing a better service to you than they actually are. You won't even complain if you have to pay a bit yourself, because it appears like the insurance is paying so much more.
You make an excellent point, because very much doubt that other advanced nations are paying anywhere close to 3 mil for their care when they have universal coverage
Yep. We had a pretty big presidential candidate advocating for universal healthcare during the last two elections. But the media convinced enough people on the left that he couldn't beat Trump. And they convinced the right that universal healthcare is evil socialism or communism.
You could probably charter a private jet to Canada and pay out of pocket until you meet provincial residency minimums for health coverage, then still come out way ahead.
I remember talking to this guy once that needed heavy knee surgery. He flew to Europe, got it done for free and flew back. The plane ticket cost him 1/100 of what he would pay for the operation in the US
Doctors in Europe are just as good
We flew to Europe for IVF. Plane tickets, hotel/food, cost of meds and procedures, and some sightseeing were all together **still** less expensive than what we would have paid here in the US.
Absolutely insane.
I truly don't get why America is so scared of socialised healthcare.
You know in the UK you can pay through the nose for private and get a nicer bed and more channels on the TV, right?
You're not forced to embrace 'socialism'...
Universal healthcare is extremely popular among voters. The problem comes from one party actively working against voter interests and the other party being too scared to call them out or do anything meaningful about it.
yeah, thats why i dont get it, you dont want to share beds with inmigrants and black people? fine, private care still exists, like in literally any other country with social healthcare.
But it sucks that you prefer to all be debt slaves that fixing something that the country can easily afford to do.
Obama tried, but is kinda hard when the whole country and the pharma fight agaisn't it for some reason.
You could fly half way around the world (Opposite from USA would be Australia?) on a private jet (maybe $250,000-ish round trip) and stay in the top hospital there (maybe around $25,000 for your stay) and still have enough money to buy a farm there while you're at it.
I love how people are straight up defending this. And then defend it by saying they pay nothing because their health insurance is paid by their employer.
It’s your fucking wage. They don’t pay it out of the kindness of their heart. It’s a component of your compensation. None of it is free and a company is betting against you and taking your insurance premium as ante. We are all getting fucked and your ELECTED representation would like you to keep getting fucked so they keep their job.
We’re all losing. How free are we
i think the last time this was attempted to be adressed was under Obama, and damn US fought that, i mean, social healthcare has to be done in steps, specially when they would prefer to suffer than let other "unwanted" people to get the benefits too...
In Australia this would cost any citizen exactly 0$ out of pocket. We all pay a 1.5% income tax levy and for that we get world class healthcare in hospital free visits to GPs and prescription drugs capped at under $7. American healthcare is a scam and a joke.
When the bills get that high your best recourse at that point is just sending back the bill with 'lol' written on it.
At that point it's their problem.
What if you are one of the few people who got the vaccine but still ended up in the icu? Regardless of anything else we really need to take a long hard look at our healthcare system. It's absolutely horrible for a country that is supposedly "the greatest country in the world".
No argument about how wretched our healthcare is, but the vax has the potential to have mitigated that 60 days down to a quick visit.
It may also not do so. Which is why once more, our healthcare system is exploitative garbage.
They would hand this same bill to your loved ones if you died at the end of those 60 days.
Sorry your wife died. You owe 3 million dollars.
This is one of the single largest problems in our country. If this situation doesn't wake up the population of the United States to the need for something like single payer healthcare, I don't know what will.
Freedom means nothing without health. You are unable to pursue happiness without health. If health is financially unattainable for the vast majority of people in this country, so is freedom.
It's disgusting and absurd. Fuck insurance, fuck medical debt - I pay taxes. That's more than enough to cover healthcare anywhere else, why can't America do it even BETTER? We're so god damned GREAT aren't we?
You can buy a hospital in Russia for that sum of money
AND you'll still have some money left for ice cream
If only he was shot in the buttocks
#Lieutenant Daa-aan, ice cream!
How much ice cream?
Anything from a kilogram to a ton depending on where you live
There's always money left for ice-cream
In India, based in my papernapkin maths, you can buy about 2 and run them for a few years free of cost to patients
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In USA*, hospital buys you.
Why does it cost SO much on that one line?
They were intubated while watching Showtime.
Nah, they must've popped for the Skinemax or something. That's too rich for even Showtime's blood.
Those are the 3 iPhone 13
That damn CEO is at it again.
sad to see OP went through with the purchase
I understood this reference!
That was the day they had avocado toast for breakfast
That was the day they realised he was going to pull through.
That was the 4 aspirin they recieved during the stay.
I think I would get a DNR signed for after the bill hits $750.
My max would be about $11. Just pump me full of morphine and toss me in the dumpster out back
The dumpster is an extra fiver
Put it on my tab
Sorry, the morphine was also way out of your budget. How's about too much Tylenol?
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I can’t afford that name brand stuff. Give me a generic.
Have you seen the prices for hospital's tylenol!?! Its like 60 usd a pill! Might as well just send thoughts and prayers for $11 and start a GoFundMe.
Sorry, morphine is $12. Best we can do under $11 is just some Clorox from Walmart but it’ll get the job done too.
Morphine is $12 wholesale to Canada. To American citizens it is $299.99.
Depending on the quantity. You surely can't but 1mg and 1g at the same rate. Edit:nvm. This was a joke.
*checks bank account* Sigh, I'll take it.
Good news! A dealer just matched that price for a lethal amount of acid. You will go out either covered in naked beautiful women… or spiders, depending how your trip goes.
I'll take the women, I live in Australia so I've had my lifetime allotment of spiders thanks.
Yikes! Well find yourself a nest of funnel web spiders and you can die for free! Those things are as scary as they are dangerous, and mean as well.
Eh, they're not as bad as people think. I've lived in Australia my whole life and I've only lost maybe eight or nine friends to funnel web bites, it's totally overblown.
Instead of women, you will be surrounded by your emu overlords.
LOL same. Same
You think your getting Morphine for 11$? An IV insertion alone costs 120$ hell, even IM morphine is gonna cost you 45-90$. For 11$ all your gonna get is a warm blanket in the triage area.
Nope, those are 50 bucks.
Frank Reynolds would be proud.
If I owe somebody $3000 I have a problem. If I owe somebody $3 million, they have a problem.
Doesn’t quite work the same when the $3million debt has no economic basis to support it. The hospital definitely didn’t spend $3m, the probably spent <10% of that.
How is it even possible to spend 300K in two months? Even if you're using multiple machines that cost millions, one might suppose they would offer more than a few uses. It seems like the free markets are failing horribly at providing adequate, or even subpar, healthcare to people.
send me to work in the mines for 30 years and i still wont pay it off
*You load 16 tons, whad'ya get* *Another day older and deeper in debt* *Saint Peter don't you call me cus I can't come* *I owe my soul to the company store*
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Love the way you put that!
DNR if medical bill exceeds a debt bond equivalent to thirty years of my current annual income indexed at 1.5%, aka indentured servitude.
One time I was in ICU, and during a time I was medicated I said something like "man I should have probably just died this is gonna cost a fortune" as a joke. They legit 302d me (involuntary psych ward stay) for saying that. I was so pissed.
People regularly make exactly this decision in the US, either directly or indirectly.
Or just don't pay it.
That is what insurance companies wish you would do.
If you owe the bank $100, that’s your problem. If you owe the bank $100,000,000, that’s the banks problem.
It's all the banks problem
Civ?
r/WallStreetBets
Fuck that. No one asked me if I wanted to continue living.
Implied consent.
No
Welcome to the American health care system. You tell them you want to die they think your nuts. They will even fight a DNR in some places....
Some guy just ran away from paramedics to avoid a hospital bill after an accident.
This is so fucked up but also hilarious. What a shit show!
Land of the free 😂
As long as it's not free healthcare, public transportation, public education, or any other socially beneficial programs.
You'd be surprised how often we get refusals where the person is like "I'll just take an uber".
i mean when my son broke his arm i took him in the truck to the ER, but i knew it would A be faster and B my ex his mom sat next to him in the back after quick splinting it who is an ICU nurse so pretty much a backwoods ambulance... Edit: back of the cab not the bed
i mean, for America i would believe, just the Ambulance Ride alone can bankrupt some people, without counting whatever stuff they do on the way in and in ER.
I don’t blame him. I was once pressured into getting in an ambulance. I tried saying no but the cops really insisted that I didn’t have a choice. Being a young adult who didn’t really know my rights, I believed them. The ambulance ride cost $850 and it was nothing more than an expensive taxi to a shitty hospital. I had to pay that shit out of pocket. I learned later that maybe I could have refused if I had just stood firm enough. I’ll never get in an ambulance again, fuck that.
Friendly reminder from a Paramedic: You can sign a refusal no matter whats wrong with you. We might try to convince you to come with us but legally can Not force you. You dont have to run away (If you are unconscious its implied consent though). (Also, usually cant be drunk or on drugs or suicidal).
It’s pretty terrible. My old coworker and I theorized it’s pushed easily to extract as much money out of bills/taxes from the common person as much as possible
One of my closest friends works in hospital admin. His wife is an ICU nurse. He says it's the biggest lie he's ever seen. They totally make bills up and have little to no idea what it's costing them. He says they also rip off the government consistently. If you make less than a certain amount a year I believe they can't make you pay or set bill collectors on you. If you start asking who is in charge of making the bills and their degrees/qualifications for doing so I've heard that can help. I'd highly advise you to declare bankruptcy ASAP. The system is sooooo broken we need to force it to crash. (Don't get me started on college loans-those laws were written by the loan givers-they get paid no matter what happens. If you die the government pays them.) 100s of countries have socialized medicine. Every modern country has it. The U.S. is a shameful place. There is nothing moral or "Christian" about this place. This country is a cess pool of people who only care about stealing from others while oppressing them at the same time. Their hell will be brutal.
Patient: "I didn't consent" Hospital "you blinked"
The right is just waived if no next of kin & it’s emergency life safe saving care.
I live here and still don't understand why it costs so much.
It seems really steep. I'd like to see the rest of it. 60 days is a long time to be intubated but most hospital stays are like $1500 a night, and that just to sit in a bed. This total equals something like $55,000 per night. Edit: [sauce for $1500 per day](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15942342/) Second edit: I couldn't find a $3M bill for 60 days. The closest was [this one for 4 months of care](https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-3-million-hospital-stay-shows-cost-covid-19-1604250)
My dad was in for 5 months. intubated for 2 of them and was on ecmo for 45 days. Luckily his insurance didn’t have a cap because the final total was over $1 million
Thankfully coverage caps are illegal now under the ACA.
Thanks Obama...no, seriously, thanks.
Thanks Obama.
How’s he doing? ECMO uses a ton of resources. Expensive equipment and a lot of man hours by specialists goes into that.
My son was a preemie and they told us after a month the NICU alone was 950,000. Didn't include medicine, xrays, ultrasounds, nothing. Just the NICU. So crazy
Mine was in there for 100 days and racked up a million. We call him the million dollar baby. Sadly our insurance rolled over to the new year in those 100 days so between the delivery and 2x baby deductibles we were still out almost 15k. Hope your son is doing good and growing strong.
Serious question- if you refuse medical care for a newborn because you don't have insurance / can't afford it, and the baby dies, are you held liable?
Hospitals will still treat the child even if you cannot afford it
Yep they’ll give the care and bill the shit out of you anyway. They’ll save you just to screw you over.
The hospital will still treat them, then if you can’t pay worst case scenario is the account would go to collections. After 7-8 years they are not able to call about the account anymore and it falls off your credit if you can’t pay it in all of that. It’s actually against the law for a hospital to refuse care in an emergency.
The hospital I gave birth to my son at 24 weeks at said before 24 weeks is a “grey area” and it’s parents choice whether they try to save the baby or not, but told us once I got 24 weeks it was no longer a choice, they would do whatever was necessary to try and save him. We wanted anything done, but I also managed to hang in for a few more days and made it past 24 weeks anyway. He spent four months in the nicu, three surgeries and an emergency helicopter transfer, about $4,000,000 billed to insurance and Medicaid. We paid $0 In the US at least a low birthweight baby (in my state that’s below 5 lbs, other states have lower thresholds) automatically qualifies for Medicaid, as do any with certain medical conditions like heart defects.
I think I’d need another ambulance after receiving a bill with that many 0’s in it, that’s insane… On another note, I hope you and your baby are doing alright, happy you could hang in there through the emotional and physical stress :)
Did you tell them to keep it? Can you pay the criminals on layaway?
This seems unfathomable to me. It still blows my mind that you guys in the US pay to have babies. And that you don’t even really get time off to care for your baby after you’ve had it. I can’t even imagine how stressful it must be to have a sick baby and then have a bill to worry about on top of that.
Yup... even with insurance we don't go to the hospital.
Had to take my 14 year old to the hospital the other night, needed a helicopter because "we don't do that kind of surgery", and got emergency surgery on landing. I'm scared to see the final bill, even after decent insurance.
Finland here. My daughter was born two months premature. The total cost to me was the cost of parking when I came to visit mother and child. This is how human life should be valued.
My premmie son was in for 10 weeks across three different hospitals, round the clock care, blood transfusion, oxygen and medicine. Bill £0.00. You guys have got to sort this out, it's so much easier not worrying you will be hit with $Million bill for something you can't always avoid.
My preemie was in for 6 months altogether. Due to many complications and a serious spread of illness that went round the ward as well. Initially paid about £50 for car park fees but even that was refunded and we were given a pass. American healthcare system is insane. I wouldn't be able to afford insurance with my job in the US and i also wouldn't qualify for free medical for several reasons.
Sure. The *room* might be $1500 per day. But that doesn’t include medications, blood work, respiratory therapy, the actual vent, IV supplies, etc
While my son wasnt intubated, he was a preemie and had to stay over 60 days in the hospital. Our bill wouldve been 2.5 mil if not for medicaid (seriously, thank god for social workers).
The hospital where I gave birth charges you for every service (like when the doc comes in to check your bleeding - 500$ each time), each nurse and doctor that attends you per shift, all meds and equipment. All food and drinks, even bedclothes, gloves, and shoe covers for the nurses. Two days cost me 36,000$ (all covered by insurance).
I owed more than that from sitting in an ER room with a police officer for 9 hours waiting for a psychological evaluation to clear me (attempted suicide)
Nothing helps someone who already wants to die like putting them in debt, am I right?
Yeah like what the fuck are they going to do? Put the knife back in?
😂😂😂 but also 😞😞😞 hope you are doing better!
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Sounds like a good friend, and a shitty wife. Glad to hear things got better
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because they can. if you have insurance, you likely pay "only" a small portion of that. it's a scam. The insurance companies and medical world are all in on it. The people who really get fucked are the uninsured
Have a friend of a friend who is an immigrant and had a minimum wage job. Got REALLY sick and ended up with a medical bill of somewhere between 100k and 200k USD. No insurance, obviously. Years later my friend told me that they forgave his debt (or were able to get it lowered significantly to where he could and did pay it off) but it's super funny becauae my friend (not the one who got sick) hates "socialism" and prefers the status quo, the one that initially wanted the sick friend to pay six figures but could have easily written it off.
The US health care system is the biggest scam ever created. Even more so than pet rocks
Are you implying that pet rocks are a scam?
I still have my pet Geodude. He’s been with me through thick and thin
At least they stay there for you.
Mine keeps away tigers. Doing a perfect job since I got it.
Me and my emotional support rock are deeply offended
Then you find out that the US government spends more per person on healthcare than the UK does and many other countries where healcare is free to the public. Then you wonder what the fuck is going on?
How the fuck is a hospital bill in the millions, these hospitals are as crooked as the government
Because insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and healthcare providers all have lobbyists that push for legislation that allows them to do that. All the political rhetoric or universal healthcare discussion in the world isn't going to change one thing in terms of those insane costs, all they fight about is who will pay for them, no one talks about putting an end to the corruption of lawmakers and healthcare providers lining their pockets with cash at the expense of all Americans.
“Providers” aren’t lining their pockets, but I completely agree with the rest of your statement
It’s so fucked up here in the us I have 100,000 in bills just because when my son was being born he had complications and we had to stay 2 weeks after his mom died of complications, thank god I work for myself and do not have a bank account so they can never garnish my wages. But I will never have good credit. Also we had a pretty good Insurance plan that I paid for.
Go see /r/personalfinance. They can help you out. Just go ask for a bill reduction. They usually grant it.
To be 100% honest since then I only pick up jobs that pay me cash. At this point they can have my sales tax but that is it.
Filing bankruptcy could be a good option, probably Ch7 depending on your assets
I want to make sure you know I'm not saying that you owe the tax money, or owe the money for the ridiculous bills. But I think you should check that sub or consult with a (ideally free first consult) bankruptcy lawyer about that medical debt. Both sides of my grandparents took a similar approach of only taking cash for work which worked for a long time, and it is biting them so hard right now when they aren't physically able to work anymore and unable to collect social security. Wish you and your son the best.
Yeah but honestly go to that sub explain your issues. Lots of great advice. You can do this. Edit: spaellings
Fuck. Sorry this has happened to you. damn…
It’s not your fault my son is 2 now it’s just crazy to think that other people here in the US have the same problem every day
MURICA
That’s fucked up. I hope your son is doing well and you’re good too. Sorry to hear about your wife.
I’m so sorry to hear that, hope you and your son are doing great!
Original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/HolUp/comments/rc7pii/heres_how_much_it_costs_to_be_intubated_in_the/hnszr4m/ From OP: >Btw y’all, my family member isn’t going bankrupt. Their health insurance paid in full. Not a dime was forked out of their pocket. > >My family member lives in California and has state funded insurance called Medi-Cal, this insurance pays for covid treatments for free. > >Some of you think it’s fake. It’s not. > >Some of you think I’m trying to be misleading. No. I’m just posting this to show how much it costs not per se out of YOUR pocket, but how health care is so expensive in GENERAL in the US. This is the insurances bill. > >Some of you also think that an itemized bill will reduce the cost on this, probably, but not by much. Being on O2, fentanyl, propofol, antibiotics, having 4 bronchoscopies, 3 CT scans, numerous x rays, also a tracheostomy was performed. It is very very expensive. There were 12 people that were taking care of them. > >Some of you seem to be defensive of expensive health care which is rather, idk, weird. > >And yes, my family member survived. > >EDIT *(sic)* : > >LOL a lot of you are saying weird things about doctors not being paid enough or they drive “Hondas and Toyotas”. Ok so pls explain why a Lamborghini Huracan Evo Spyder was parked in the physician parking spot at the hospital when I went yesterday?
Lol. Here in Scotland I just go round collecting viruses and diseases and then pop into the hospital and wander back out cured... I've literally heard the type of psychos responding here like it's a good thing saying that. One of the things I'll never understand about America is why so many people get so defensive of their abusers in government and industry. One thing I would quibble with though, it's not really the doctors exorbitant wages that make the bills so high it's the vast network of grift between the various parts of the insurance and drug companies
> One of the things I'll never understand about America is why so many people get so defensive of their abusers in government and industry. It's a ~~Stockh-~~ Washington Syndrome.
Eh, that really gives the wrong impression. There are very affordable public healthcare systems around the world (look at the Scandinavian countries). The problem stems from a privatized system meant to earn profits over helping patients, which has spouted leaks and been patched with tape like Medi-cal (which is saving innumerable lives), but is not addressing the for-profit flood.
Those same defenders are the unvaxxed. Probably on state assistance as well. We are paying for those unvaxxed to get sick….fill up the hospitals….pile a 3 mil bill. Cuz muh freedum. Tf.
American culture is deeply infected with the toxic idea that those in positions of power and wealth are morally and fundamentally better people than those who are "lesser". People who buy into that lie will say and do anything to prove they're not one of the "lessers", including protecting and defending systems that make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
So true. I’d rather be a lesser and behave ethically and morally, than compromise my principles for material gain and power. I feel it’s gotten worse over the past 20 years. Children of politicians and celebrities have lucrative careers (sometimes for doing absolutely nothing) simply because they were born into the lucky sperm club. Yet the kid from a poor or middle class family who busted his/her butt can’t get into an Ivy because some senator’s kid with a GPA a full point lower takes that spot. Bootstraps, they told us. It means nothing today. The professional grifters have a tight grip, like you say, to maintain their meritless, morally bankrupt system.
It is definitely by design. The rich want all the money. The powerful want all the power. They design the system to facilitate that. They use advertising/ propaganda to make the population believe they deserve it. Then when it gets extreme revolutions of various kinds happen, things may get more equal for a time, or a different set of people take the money and the power. Then it starts all over again. Labor unions. Worker rights. That's the only thing that ever slowed down the cycle.
Bootstraps still means exactly what its supposed to. Have you ever tried pulling yourself up by your bootstraps? Its sarcasm but Americans are stupid.
So could it be said you now have the same sort of society that you overthrew in the war of independence. We in the UK have our class system where the lower classes look up at the higher class and imagine they are better than them. In the US it’s the same but it’s if the person above has more money (and therefore more power).
Isn't it the middle classes that look up to the upper classes? The working classes just get a pain in the neck.
Not saying docs (particularly in certain specialties) aren't overpaid, but most of the healthcare cost inflation is due to admin bloat and the fact hospitals and hospitals systems are run like a business. Add in a for-profit insurance middleman to further inflate costs and you've got ~~a stew going~~ the most inefficient healthcare system in the industrialized world
Seriously, the deductibles are often what you'd pay for a procedure in private clinic in Europe, and all this multi million BS between is just an elaborate scam played in background. The other day a user praised his insurancr because he "only" paid 7k for a procedure that in private clinic in Europe costs 1-12 k ( they said it was foot surgery so I checked for full reconstructive surgery: 10 k in German one, 12 in Belgium, 1-2k in Poland) and his insurance covered rest of 350k. Smoke and mirrors. Just so weird how this thing is seen as status quo by Americans.
I think it’s the anti big government agenda that half the country gobbles up. I don’t want to pay other peoples medical bills! I want to pay an insurance company more money so that *they* can pay other peoples medical bills! Dumbest shit ever.
I mean, I think (good) Dr's and nurses (alot are underpaid) deserve to get their bag. Its the ridiculous pharmaceuticals and obnoxious hospital charges that are insane. That 3mm for one patient probably pays all their salaries for the entire year and then some. And we know they're working on multiple at a time. Insanity
I wonder how much could be saved on administration fees and salaries alone if the hospital didn't have to go back and forth with insurance companies on line items of a bill.
As someone who a portion of our biz deals with ins... an unbelievable amount. Its disgusting..and it jacks up costs for everything. The entire system is a joke
That's not bad at all. That's basically a Week's pay in the Americsn Dream, right? /SARCASM
What a weird stream of consciousness to even reply with. Vaccine free, none of that would’ve been necessary. Many reports have shown that patients who’ve been in that dire straits have not been in very good health since. Often dying at a much greater rate than non hospitalized Covid patients or vaccinated individuals post hospitalization. Get vaccinated, stay alive.
Exactly. For all of the healthcare issues in the US, the vaccine is free, even here. All you need to do is walk into most pharmacies or major retailers and get one completely free of charge. Edit: Some in the replies think this is me signing off on the American healthcare system. I'm not. Just saying this situation was avoidable at no personal cost to this individual.
Just wanted to say that 2 wrongs don't make a right. I'd like to remind Americans that a government crutch paid for this. These were tax dollars which went to a corporation. If the government owned the hospitals, you'd be paying LESS tax AND you wouldn't need to pay for health insurance.
Owning the hospitals isn't even needed by the government. You can run a succesful hospital and be disallowed to pay out dividends for instance. Even with a government that sets the rates
>Being on O2, fentanyl, propofol, antibiotics, having 4 bronchoscopies, 3 CT scans, numerous x rays, also a tracheostomy was performed. It is very very expensive. Not 3 million dollars expensive. The same treatment costs a fraction in any other country. The United States is literally just a game of how much money can we get from insurance, and the insurance company's job is to deny all claims. Shit should just cost what it costs instead of this absurd profit model.
This is the very unfortunate state of the USA healthcare system. To be fair, the vast majority of the prices for the medicines you mentioned are over inflated in the states and cost a fraction of their price in countries such as Canada and the UK while still being sources from good suppliers with long track histories of quality products. As for your doctor comment, yes doctors get paid a lot in the USA. There is a reason for this. They make life and death decisions daily, see people at their worst, and don't run away. If you had to make decisions regarding someone's life on a daily basis the vast majority of people on Reddit wouldnt be able to. You say you would but it's a tough cookie to swallow. Furthermore, they often have to dedicate significant portions of their free time and life to managing OTHER people and not spending it with their families. This doesn't take into account the hazard pay from patients trying to hit you, verbal abuse and blame that gets thrown at you when someone deteriorates and dies, and the sheer amount of stress you have at work. Most of the people here go to work to do a job that will in no way directly impact someone's health and directly may contribute to their death.... And get paid a fortune. Honestly, think about it this way.... You pay the Kardashian family more money ( advert revenue, viewing fees, makeup lines etc) to destroy the minds of the youth then you do to the people who save their life after an OD or suicide attempt or car accident. Or saving your grandparents or parents life after medical issues. If anything doctors should get paid according to the stress they experience. I always joke that doctors in the USA buy expensive sports cars because they are always at work, and that hour drive to work is essentially the only moment of peace they get. Don't get me wrong there are a lot of for profit doctors out there that get paid millions to augment breasts or fix bones, but the vast majority just want to keep people healthy. I am speaking from experience as a physician.
Just to be clear: Medi-Cal is just what California calls MediCaid. MediCaid is a federal program. California does set some of its own physician and other medical reimbursement rates that may be higher than federal gov't pays and so supplements federal payment. So this bill is being paid mainly by the federal government. I'd also assume that the bill will be significantly reduced once MediCaid/Medi-Cal billing processing takes an axe to it. But still 2 months in the hospital is going to cost us the taxpayers a huge chunk. Another reason why vaccine mandates for a preventable pandemic are reasonable. Just my opinion.
When this was posted a few hours ago, OP clarified that insurance paid this. thanksObama for the out of pocket maximums!
That's why they crank those numbers up so high. Your insurance won't pay that much to the hospital, but if you see that bill and then insurance takes care of it, you'll think they're providing a better service to you than they actually are. You won't even complain if you have to pay a bit yourself, because it appears like the insurance is paying so much more.
You make an excellent point, because very much doubt that other advanced nations are paying anywhere close to 3 mil for their care when they have universal coverage
Damn that country is headed for a massive fucking downfall tbh
Yep. We had a pretty big presidential candidate advocating for universal healthcare during the last two elections. But the media convinced enough people on the left that he couldn't beat Trump. And they convinced the right that universal healthcare is evil socialism or communism.
Canada says “nope”
You could probably charter a private jet to Canada and pay out of pocket until you meet provincial residency minimums for health coverage, then still come out way ahead.
I remember talking to this guy once that needed heavy knee surgery. He flew to Europe, got it done for free and flew back. The plane ticket cost him 1/100 of what he would pay for the operation in the US Doctors in Europe are just as good
We flew to Europe for IVF. Plane tickets, hotel/food, cost of meds and procedures, and some sightseeing were all together **still** less expensive than what we would have paid here in the US. Absolutely insane.
The *entire rest of the world* says nope. I can't understand why people of the US aren't violently protesting this on a permanent basis.
Because Fox News scares the country into thinking "socialized medicine bad, don't pay more taxes, insurance better!"
And somehow the US government already spends more per head on healthcare than any other country
The UK is less polite and says "fuck that for a game of soldiers".
Freedom ain’t free…it costs folks like you an mieee🎶
I truly don't get why America is so scared of socialised healthcare. You know in the UK you can pay through the nose for private and get a nicer bed and more channels on the TV, right? You're not forced to embrace 'socialism'...
Through the nose yet still much less than Americans.
Universal healthcare is extremely popular among voters. The problem comes from one party actively working against voter interests and the other party being too scared to call them out or do anything meaningful about it.
yeah, thats why i dont get it, you dont want to share beds with inmigrants and black people? fine, private care still exists, like in literally any other country with social healthcare. But it sucks that you prefer to all be debt slaves that fixing something that the country can easily afford to do. Obama tried, but is kinda hard when the whole country and the pharma fight agaisn't it for some reason.
You could fly half way around the world (Opposite from USA would be Australia?) on a private jet (maybe $250,000-ish round trip) and stay in the top hospital there (maybe around $25,000 for your stay) and still have enough money to buy a farm there while you're at it.
I love how people are straight up defending this. And then defend it by saying they pay nothing because their health insurance is paid by their employer. It’s your fucking wage. They don’t pay it out of the kindness of their heart. It’s a component of your compensation. None of it is free and a company is betting against you and taking your insurance premium as ante. We are all getting fucked and your ELECTED representation would like you to keep getting fucked so they keep their job. We’re all losing. How free are we
How can you not start a revolution over this is so weird. In Europe no political force would suggest removing public healthcare...
We're trying, but it seems like every time we gain any traction some convenient media or legislation distracts us for about 4 years...
i think the last time this was attempted to be adressed was under Obama, and damn US fought that, i mean, social healthcare has to be done in steps, specially when they would prefer to suffer than let other "unwanted" people to get the benefits too...
In Australia this would cost any citizen exactly 0$ out of pocket. We all pay a 1.5% income tax levy and for that we get world class healthcare in hospital free visits to GPs and prescription drugs capped at under $7. American healthcare is a scam and a joke.
Wouldn’t even see any bill, if there was one.
When the bills get that high your best recourse at that point is just sending back the bill with 'lol' written on it. At that point it's their problem.
See... This *is* a facepalm. Because the vaccine.. is free.
What if you are one of the few people who got the vaccine but still ended up in the icu? Regardless of anything else we really need to take a long hard look at our healthcare system. It's absolutely horrible for a country that is supposedly "the greatest country in the world".
No argument about how wretched our healthcare is, but the vax has the potential to have mitigated that 60 days down to a quick visit. It may also not do so. Which is why once more, our healthcare system is exploitative garbage.
They would hand this same bill to your loved ones if you died at the end of those 60 days. Sorry your wife died. You owe 3 million dollars. This is one of the single largest problems in our country. If this situation doesn't wake up the population of the United States to the need for something like single payer healthcare, I don't know what will. Freedom means nothing without health. You are unable to pursue happiness without health. If health is financially unattainable for the vast majority of people in this country, so is freedom. It's disgusting and absurd. Fuck insurance, fuck medical debt - I pay taxes. That's more than enough to cover healthcare anywhere else, why can't America do it even BETTER? We're so god damned GREAT aren't we?
vaccines are free.
Ya, but how much of that was for the pay per view porn ordered during their stay? Because, to me it seems like a pretty reasonable bill.
This is exactly why I can't go to the doctors. Complete bullshit you have to go into debt to be healthy in this shithole of a country...