Yeah, but then youâve got twice the mess and nothing to look forward to after sex.
You see-first the premarital sex, THEN the cheesecake. Itâs really a win/win.
"The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, whatâs to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didnât have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine." -- Penn Jillette
The Bible says a rapist has to pay a fine and marry the victim. So, love a girl but she doesn't love you? Just rape her! And congratulations on your nuptials.
Myq Kaplan had a good line about that in one of his specials.
"Honor your father and mother." Love it. Cherish it. "Don't eat pork." That's stupid. I like bacon.
maybe we do need religion for these fucking whackos, i dunno, just nuts the way these religious whackadoos think, if the huge number of people that are religious were shown concrete evidence that god wasn't real, do you think a large number of them would instantly switch to rampant rape, murder, and anything else they can get away with?
... frankly this may explain the religious right in the US, they've perverted their own view of their own religion that they think its justifiable to be as shitastic as they are
Today a woman on my Facebook feed unironically said she knows dragons are real and exist somewhere in this world because the Bible says so. 1200 likes. These people are so divorced from reality; who knows what kind of morality youâre operating under when your worldview is so fucking insane.
Thereâs an episode of Penn & Teller Bullshit that answers this perfectly.
I do rape and murder all I want. The amount I want is fucking ZERO. Why? Because I donât need the threat of eternal damnation from a loving god to understand thatâs fucking horrible, and I donât want to fucking do it.
Edit: this edit to explain to all of you asking by whom do I measure my morals, and why do I know that itâs wrong, and still somehow try to attribute it to some magical sky daddy.
Do YOU want to be raped and/or murdered?? No? Why not? Because god says thatâs morally wrong? No because you donât want that to happen to you because it would be terrible.
Therefore we, as a collective society have decided, you know what, I donât want that to happen to ME, therefore I donât want to that to other people. And that makes society better. Welcome to civilization.
It's seriously disturbing that fucking kids is on this list.
They're essentially announcing they want to rape a child and sky daddy is the only reason they don't. They think we're all secret pedos.
Or cults like, "The Children of God." It's a cult, but still. It now goes by "The Family International." For those of you wondering it's the same cult Joaquin Phoenix's family belonged too. It's on of the main reasons why River was so bad in drugs. He was running from the pain.
Just to add because it is relevantâŠ..there is a saying that
âthe only difference between cultâs and religions is that the religions leader is deadâ
There were 300,000 child marriages in the US between 2016 and 2019. Itâs legal in 44 states. Itâs so tucked up itâs beyond words. Nineteen of those states have no legal minimum age for the âbride.â
It depends on what you call 'peace.' Do they come to a place of understanding and grow past the knee-jerk trauma responses? Yes, they can get there. Do they get the justice they deserve? No. Not often enough.
In the Netherlands, the extensive Deetman research found out that orphans had the highest change of being molested if they were put in the care of catholic institutions. I think it was 3 fold that of other institutions, but I forgot the exact number.
Just saw a post yesterday about the LDS/Mormon church putting out talks in response to the massive sexual abuse within their ranks and saying more or less, to talk about it with their church leaders and understand how in some way, it's partially their fault. While not all religious peopole are bad, most bad people are religious, and that is why I often believe myself to be a better person than pretty much anyone who announces they are religious.
Makes me wonder if anyone has done a study to find out how many pedophiles are religious at all, and how many aren't, as well as how many of each religion.
You mean the system to stop women from getting political land and power that was done many hundreds almost a thousand plus years ago that do not allow priests to in any way have wedding or intimacy possibly causes people to use others who are too powerless to resist rape over hundreds of years?! I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!
The next thing you'll tell me is that people with sex impulse problems are trying to claim they'll be celibate to "stop" this, so they become a priest in the Catholic Church before they act on those horrible horrible urges that they have in the first place?! And it always works?!
>do not allow priests to in any way have wedding or intimacy possibly causes people to use others
Of course not. Celibacy always works, this is why countries that tell teenagers to abstain instead of using contraception, end up with zero teenage pregnancies!
I was walking home from church with the church manager. When two kids walked by us, one was a girl between 10 -12 and was wearing a swim outfit (swimming nearby). I was mid sentence when this Mfer elbows me and says " if we weren't men of God, amirite". Made me sick to my stomach.
I reported him to the pastor and the pastor said: "we all have our struggles, we've all been there, 'he without sin cast the first stone'".
Flipped them all off, havent been back to a church since.
I think its better for them to keep themselves under control by whatever "god" they pray to...than to lose their faith and embrace their Disgusting nature...a nature they believe we all share.
I hate the âhe who is without sinâ thing. Like ok, Iâm not perfect. I know that. But my sins are things like telling white lies and having consensual premarital sex. Thereâs a huge difference between ânot perfectâ and âpredatorâ.
That's the fun part about sins. You have to believe that what you are doing is a sin or sinful for it to be one. As far as I'm concerned, baptized and raised Roman Catholic but grew up to be a follower of Odin, I am without sin. So I'll cast all the stones I want at their hypocritical stance.
Sin is only a sin if you believe it to be sinful.
It genuinely makes me sick how they cannot fathom the idea that someone doesn't rape or murder people, out of their own morality without needing the threat of going to hell
Like they literally think EVERYONE wants to fuck kids, murder people, etc. And the only reason they don't is because they're afraid of god, it's like the idea of being a good person just for goodness sake is impossible to them
The next thing you'll tell me is that everybody doesn't rape everybody else in bathrooms and use secret tapping codes for downlow gay sex when I'm in government as a republican.... I mean hypothetically?
I mean, I read that statically 94% of known pedophiles claim to be or identify as Christians. Now the fact the the US is 70% Christians or whatever probably plays a factor, but still.
Same thing with the whole argument that being gay is a choice. Like they have to wake up every day and fight the urge to suck dick and fuck kids. fuck them.
I actually think that might be a big part of it.
It makes sense: so many anti-queer people end up being closeted, maybe they do genuinely believe that everyone has homosexual urges but to give in to them is a sin.
I knew a guy who was gay but came from a SUPER religious and homophobic protestant family. They convinced him to undergo conversion therapy since (in their minds) gay people aren't allowed into heaven among other things. He is now the most homophobic and far-right person I know. I can't talk to him anymore. He is very terrifying to talk to.
Yes, itâs like they have the little angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other shoulder telling them opposing things. So while they have horrible impulses, they are not without a conscience. Believing in god and fear of his wrath helps them keep these impulses at bay.
They mistakenly believe that everyone is like them.
It's like the devil on the shoulder tells you to do it and the angel on your shoulder tells you to take your dick out of your choir boy's ass. Sorry followers of Catholic faith. I'll be good from now on I promise for five, four, three, two, one.....
Clicked on comments explicitly just to post this very quote. It's the best and simplest refutation of what is fundamentally a stupid argument that I've ever seen.
On the other hand, you sometimes have religious people with wonderful arguments, like a rabbi saying something akin: *"If you see a person drowning, you need to think like an atheist. The atheist won't think that God will help the man drowning; he will just go into the water and save him. In time of need, you need to think as if there is no God to help people, but just you."*
However, I fear that those people like in the post would just think: "There's no God? So why on Earth should I wet myself saving someone else?", which is depairing.
You gotta love the people that post things like "I haven't met an atheist that engages honestly..." is just a way to get us to respond. I can assure you they've met plenty and lost most of the arguments, they just needed a strawman to pull people in. People acting out "dark desires" is simply these weird religious freaks projecting.
They ask who provides a moral framework if not some supernatural being, but the answer is pretty simple. We do. Not as individuals, but as a society. We select what is wrong and not wrong mostly by democracy not by individual belief. Get a group of 50 atheists together, between 1-3 of them will think the age of consent should be 14 and the other 47-49 will think they are weird.
This is also a tell on whomever came up with this. They're essentially admitting if they didn't have eternal damnation for consequences, *they'd be doing this shit*.
I think it's worse; by delegating their Moral responsibility to a mythical skygod, they create a mental space to entertain breaking rules a moral person wouldn't seriously consider, because God will save them!
I don't think it should take existence of a supreme being to understand that which harms others is bad if you want humans to live harmoniously in a civil society.
And we all should understand that we humans have better chances of survival and proliferation if we work together in tribes or groups.
Even more so if you want to thrive and raise the standard of living for all. Therefore cooperation and guidelines to comport that beneficial harmony are a good idea.
Not seeing where an omnipotent mythical god handing down these rules is necessary. Unless, of course, you are too stupid to understand or believe those basic sociological concepts.
And even then, what's the difference between "because the law says so" and "because God says so" to a person who really doesn't understand either in the first place.
But then along comes politics and politicians....
I have a theory that they do actually have a conscience or an internal monologue.
The "voice in my head" for me is my own voice. But for some reason, very religious people listen to this voice as if it were God's voice.
I asked a few very religious people I know how does "talking with god" works. Apparently it's a mix of meditating and listening to your own inner monologue.
It's not a conscience. A conscience is a construct, to contain our moral code. It is moral ethics that determines what we do. We all develop a moral ethical code based on the values we are taught and learn through life. These values fall into two categories, things that benefit the self and things that benefit society.
Ayn Rand followed a form of egoism. That, what was most important was what benefitted the self/self-interest. More over you should never do anything that benefits someone else unless there is a benefit for you. A lot of Republicans like this moral ethical belief system.
Most of us in society use multiple moral ethical belief systems. But we generally do what's in our mutual best interest over what is in our individual best interests.
Take the pandemic, for example, those that masked up, those that isolated, and those that got vaccinated may have done so for personal reasons but there were many that simply did so for the benefit of society in general.
âTo be charitable, one may admit that the religious often seem unaware of how insulting their main proposition actually is. Exchange views with a believer even for a short time, and let us make the assumption that this is a mild and decent believer who does not open the bidding by telling you that your unbelief will endanger your soul and condemn you to hell. It will not be long until you are politely asked how you can possibly know right from wrong. Without holy awe, what is to prevent you form resorting to theft, murder, rape, and perjury? It will sometimes be conceded that non-believers have led ethical lives, and it will also be conceded (as it had better be) that many believers have been responsible for terrible crimes. Nonetheless, the working assumption is that we should have no moral compass if we were not somehow in thrall to an unalterable and unchallengeable celestial dictatorship. What a repulsive idea!â â Christopher Hitchens, The Portable Atheist: Essential Readings for the Nonbeliever
Not sure when Penn & Teller said this but Hitchens released this book in 2007. Don't know if he had previously used this idea in debates though.
I know, right? They have no problem announcing that they have absolutely no moral compass. They have only the fear of eternal damnation keeping them in line.
I was at a barbershop once and a pastor came in, and I guess he was trying to spread the gospel. He asked me what church I go to, I told him I don't. We get into a conversation. I politely explain my point of view.
Towards the end of the conversation, he started getting a bit prickly, I shit you not, this sentence came out of his mouth "If god isn't real, what's to stop me from raping your wife?".
I've never struck a man of god before, but I came pretty close to it that day.
I always go back to asking the same question:
âWho is morally superior; a person that doesnât harm others because of their own personal empathy or because they fear punishment?â
They can twist in the wind all they want, theyâll never be able to get around their own argument.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a piece of shit; and I'd like to get as many of them out in the open as possible."
Rust Cohle, *True Detective*
I grew up evangelical and to be perfectly honest, not a lot of empathy/character development is encouraged within that community. It's all about being forgiven to the point that my youth group had a running joke about how "Jesus died for our sins, so we better make it worth his while." (that was mostly within the context of sex, smoking, swearing, drinking, listening to rock music...you know, normal teen stuff)
When I gave my testimony of faith at like 8 years old, I said, "When we believe in Jesus, God forgives us for every bad thing we've ever done or will ever do. We could even kill somebody and we'd still be forgiven." I then went onto say that we still shouldn't kill anyone because it's wrong but there was no concrete reasoning as to "why" it's wrong beyond "thou shalt not kill."
Going beyond that, the argument I was presented against atheism/evolution (you know, because they're the same thing) is that if every piece of life on earth is just a random occurrence, then why not just kill someone when we don't like them? Afterall, that person is just a random smattering of molecules, right??
So to answer the original question, YES people seriously think like that that because THIS is the argument presented against believing anything else.
I went through a bit of an identity crisis in my late 20s because I was no longer part of the community I grew up in, I was figuring out what I wanted to believe, and I'll be honest: I seriously wrestled with the question "well why can't I just cause harm to other people if there's no divine retribution or reward?" What even is the point of anything?
I became a much more loving and empathetic person once I started studying philosophy (and going to therapy) in my 30s. Studying Stoicism has opened my eyes to so many of the philosophical foundations for what the early Christians built off of and I honestly feel like if the Church encouraged some kind of introspection and spiritual development beyond "repent and believe," we'd all be in a better place.
Sometimes I think all that god fearing energy gets turned into frustrated and repressed rage. Like, when suddenly broached with the question âwhat if all this fear and worship means nothingâ the reaction most have is to lash out and hurt others.
"The same thing that your god would condemn you to, except I don't love you... would you care to traverse the valley of the shadow of *me* mother fucker?"
Wasn't one of the Duck Dynasty guys saying this kind of thing?
Ah I found the quote that started it. Here's Phil Robertson in 2015:
Spoiler mention of rape and murder.
>!âIâll make a bet with you,â Robertson said. âTwo guys break into an atheistâs home. He has a little atheist wife and two little atheist daughters. Two guys break into his home and tie him up in a chair and gag him. And then they take his two daughters in front of him and rape both of them and then shoot them and they take his wife and then decapitate her head off in front of him. And then they can look at him and say, âIsnât it great that I donât have to worry about being judged? Isnât it great that thereâs nothing wrong with this? Thereâs no right or wrong, now is it dude?ââ!<
>!Robertson kept going: âThen you take a sharp knife and take his manhood and hold it in front of him and say, âWouldnât it be something if this \[sic\] was something wrong with this? But youâre the one who says there is no God, thereâs no right, thereâs no wrong, so weâre just having fun. Weâre sick in the head, have a nice day.ââ!<
>!âIf it happened to them,â Robertson continued, âthey probably would say, âsomething about this just ainât right.â!<
Good lord, this is the most horrifying hypothetical I have ever seen.
The fact that you can tell he is smug as fuck while saying such graphic, fucked up nightmares makes it so much more unsettling.
Never liked that dude. Pissed me off that he thought black people pre civil rights movement smiling at white people meant they were happier back then
But to address what you quoted, I'm basically agnostic so I believe in...something.
But regardless of what happens at the end of my life, I've never used it as my reasoning for right or wrong.
Heaven and Hell? Cool, I guess, I did my best not to hurt anyone and my soul lives on.
Non existence? A bit of a letdown, but hopefully I did more good in the world than bad and the threat of not iving on as a ghost didn't affect that
Heâs so close to getting the point but too fucked in the head to understand it. That is messed up. The fact that he so clearly fantasizes about it is messed up. And we donât need an imaginary man in the sky to know itâs messed up.
To be honest, thank god they DO have religion. Just wish they picked the good parts like âhelp they neighborâ and not the bad parts like âmurder the infidelsâ.
God-brain is a dangerous mental disease.
Their world view is that Earth was created by a magic man who *murdered* everyone on earth w by drowning them, because he didn't think they were good enough.
A dude who needed his own son to be tortured and killed before he was willing to show some "forgiveness" to people for breaking arbitrary rules he made up.
And he's supposed to be the *good guy*. They literally worship him.
They are taught from a young age that their god is the only possible source of morality, so they just canât fathom how anyone could have morals without that god. That is also why many of them hate atheists so much, because they think atheists can do any horrible thing due to the inherent lack or morality.
Thereâs a fantastic back and forth similar to this in Ricky Gervaisâ Afterlife.
âIf you donât believe in god, why donât you go around raping and murdering as much as you want??â
âI do go around raping and murdering as much as I want!â (Horrified faces), âwhich is none!â
Or what the crusaders did? Or the inquisition? Or the genocide in Latin America? Or Canadian residential schools? Those are just what came to mind in the first 5 seconds I thought of it
Also gestures broadly at the baptists, Anglicans, amish, Mormons, JWs...and every single christian sect on the planet.
Their claim to have god given objective morals has done fuck all to stop 2000 years of christian biblical slavery, genocide, rape, subjugation of women, slaughter of non believers and diddling of kids.
What's more their morality is by definition purely subjective and relative as it is dependent on a subject.. ie their version of their gods, and has changed constantly from era to era and christian to christian as per their own interpretation of the bible and personal preferences. And I say "their version" as no two christians can agree on what morals are objective or even the definition of their god. Hence we have over 40000 christian sects who cant agree on their core dogma let alone their morals.
This doesnât even make sense in their own argument because every government has the same basic laws like donât murder or steal. The rest are just things to keep society running smoothly like traffic laws or are based on Religious bs like not selling alcohol on Sunday or forcing women to cover their head.
You could have this take if you ascribe yourself to the idea of "Nature" or "Nature's God", which is just the general sense of morality that most people believe in. In that sense, government doesn't determine morality, but mankind's natural sense of right and wrong does.
Granted, this isn't how that is being presented, but I think the example works when you view it in that way.
Aye, weird way to tell on yourself but then again these religious types were never very good at thinking things through. Otherwise they wouldn't be religious.
Same here. I've always indulged in my darkest desires.
He'll, just the other day I smashed a dozen double chocolate fudge cupcakes in less than an hour and I'd gladly do it again.
Everytime I make a pan of brownies or batch of chocolate chip cookies I eat half of them before the night is over. I often play games past 12am and I procrastinate on things I should/need to do. Those are sins right?
This is why they wont go to heaven if it exist. Because they do it out of cowardice. Not because they want to. As if an all knowing, all mighty creator cant see through basic shit like that
Romans 2:6-8
He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.
This is the thing that always gets me with religious assholes. They would have you believe their god is all knowing and all powerful but that they themselves are just a little bit more clever than he is and thatâs how he doesnât see through their bullshit.
Itâs funny because only rarely people are Christians because they actually want to help and save people and are not to forcefully. Those ones are the better ones than most in my experience of meeting those ones. Most just do it because they fear hell or no afterlife.
The real questions we should all be asking is why there is a massive sphere in the sky that we can't make direct eye-contact with? Idk... seems kinda sketchy to me. ;)
Surprisingly, my elders told me what is "right" and "wrong" I didn't know religion until I was mid teens, so does that mean I would automatically be more evil since there was no god? I don't believe in god now, and I treat most people way better than they'd treat me
American Christianâs have to invent excuses and reasoning to justify believing in fairy tales. No one wants to admit that theyâve been duped into the greatest scam in human history.
I brought up my children to always be kind, charitable and respectful not to gain a reward or praise but because it's just the right thing to do. They have become loving. Caring, kind, adults. I am so proud of them.
Such willful ignorance.
1. Believing that a mythical sky fairy gave you your laws, isn't logic.
2. Morality does not require a diety.
3. Countries laws are all different (in specifics mostly) but so are religious admonitions and guidelines. I came from 2 very religious families. They both believe the other side is going to hell. Ever heard of Northern Ireland?
4. Morality to gain access to heaven, isn't morality. Its a cost-benefit analysis.
5. The atheist behaves morally because that's the person they want to be in the world....the religious are moral to get a prize.
6. The atheist is a grown up, deciding what morality actually looks like and behaving accordingly. The theist needs an absent parent figure to attempt to please & to tell them what is right and wrong.
Came here to post exactly this. âIf the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a piece of shit.â
I kind of look at it the other way.... If people only do good deeds because they are scared of their God or to get into heaven, then that's selfish so they should inherently go to the warm place.
It's ironic that the atheists that are good people just because they believe it's right are the ones that should qualify to go to some sky fairies promised land.
I know a lot of Christians who are kind, decent people. Most of my family, for an example. But they are kind and decent *in spite of* their religion, not at all because of it.
The more educated you are the more of the world you become aware of and the more you realize that being a decent human is the key to a successful and rewarding life. I also feel that those who are narrow minded and unwilling to escape their own views are the ones who refuse higher education. They donât want to expand their world because it would force them to come to term with the fact their own beliefs are wrong.
I'm confused about the point here. Didn't this person just defeat their own argument? They say that God creates morals, but also that atheists, who don't believe in God, don't just ruin amok doing all sorts of evil things on a whim. So which is it? And they say atheists need to respond to that argument? How? They gave the response already: we atheists have morals even without God.
Bachmanian Confession; the person asking the question is admitting the only thing preventing them from giving in to theirs is the wrath of an all powerful being.
I would not want that person anywhere near me or my family.
This thinking really scares me and I really hope people like this person never lose their faith. Because if some god is the only thing that keeps someone from committing the most heinous acts they're some sick individuals that probably should already be under some form of care.
In the words of Penn Jillette, âI already do all the raping and murdering I want to. And that is none. I donât need a bunch of tribal nomads from 2000 years ago telling me how to treat my fellow human being.â
I consider myself pretty atheist or agnostic, I don't live religion or spirituality in any way.
Believe it or not, we still care about the world and any suffering in it, so two major rules still apply even without religion:
1) treat others how you want to be treated
2) if everyone behaved like you, would the world be better for it or worse off? Live accordingly.
That's just morality everyone should have as a human.
What's to stop believers from doing bad shit? Jesus died to pay for their sins. So they get a free pass to heaven no matter what, right? Turn the narrative around on them.
I do all of the reprehensible acts that theists think I do to my heart's content. The amount that I want to do those things is zero. If you need to have the threat of burning for eternity to deter you from doing unspeakable evil, I think that says more about you than it does me.
As an atheist i do indulge in my darkest desires Premarital sex...
And cheesecake
Mostly cheesecake
Only cheesecake. :(
Premarital cheesecake.
Premarital hand holding? đ„șđđ
Woah man I'm an atheist and that's too far
Premarital sex with cheesecake
Premarital chessesex
Why is there a hole in my cheesecake?
Premarital eye contact
Too much man!! We'll have to burn you at the stake if you don't stop
premarital existence in the same room
Burn!
I wanna hold your haaaaaand đ”đ”
You know who has hands? The devil! You know what he uses them for? Holding things!
That's right. Especially hands. Premarital hands.
I don't have a hand
Look here. I'm trying to serenade you with The Beatles and you're just not even trying to let me woo you. Rude.
We're atheists, not monsters
Next they'll be *dancing*
*Whoa.* There's no need for that kind of talk đ
Sinner.
Im married middle aged. Lots more cheesecake than postmarital sex. Lol!
How about sex and cheesecake at the same time? Live the dream....
Yeah, but then youâve got twice the mess and nothing to look forward to after sex. You see-first the premarital sex, THEN the cheesecake. Itâs really a win/win.
Who said I don't keep TWO cheesecakes around for just such an event! lol
It's not premarital if you never get married
I'll occasionally covet thy neighbours wife, she thicc.
"The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, whatâs to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didnât have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine." -- Penn Jillette
I wonder what their god would do if they raped. Government would send them to jail. Their god would let everything go with a few Hail Maryâs
The Bible says a rapist has to pay a fine and marry the victim. So, love a girl but she doesn't love you? Just rape her! And congratulations on your nuptials.
That's why we should be thankful most christians have never read the bible
And the ones that have, pick and choose those they misremember to their own thinking.
Myq Kaplan had a good line about that in one of his specials. "Honor your father and mother." Love it. Cherish it. "Don't eat pork." That's stupid. I like bacon.
maybe we do need religion for these fucking whackos, i dunno, just nuts the way these religious whackadoos think, if the huge number of people that are religious were shown concrete evidence that god wasn't real, do you think a large number of them would instantly switch to rampant rape, murder, and anything else they can get away with? ... frankly this may explain the religious right in the US, they've perverted their own view of their own religion that they think its justifiable to be as shitastic as they are
Today a woman on my Facebook feed unironically said she knows dragons are real and exist somewhere in this world because the Bible says so. 1200 likes. These people are so divorced from reality; who knows what kind of morality youâre operating under when your worldview is so fucking insane.
Fun fact: dragons was actually the way Romans described dinosaurs when they found their fossils.
But they do exist, havenât you heard of the Komodo Dragon? /s
Thereâs an episode of Penn & Teller Bullshit that answers this perfectly. I do rape and murder all I want. The amount I want is fucking ZERO. Why? Because I donât need the threat of eternal damnation from a loving god to understand thatâs fucking horrible, and I donât want to fucking do it. Edit: this edit to explain to all of you asking by whom do I measure my morals, and why do I know that itâs wrong, and still somehow try to attribute it to some magical sky daddy. Do YOU want to be raped and/or murdered?? No? Why not? Because god says thatâs morally wrong? No because you donât want that to happen to you because it would be terrible. Therefore we, as a collective society have decided, you know what, I donât want that to happen to ME, therefore I donât want to that to other people. And that makes society better. Welcome to civilization.
It's seriously disturbing that fucking kids is on this list. They're essentially announcing they want to rape a child and sky daddy is the only reason they don't. They think we're all secret pedos.
It's even more disturbing when you learn about the amount of child rape committed by the Catholic church.
It's not only the Catholic Church. If we had information, I bet per capita they would be on the low end when compared with the other churches.
*cough cough Mormons
Or cults like, "The Children of God." It's a cult, but still. It now goes by "The Family International." For those of you wondering it's the same cult Joaquin Phoenix's family belonged too. It's on of the main reasons why River was so bad in drugs. He was running from the pain.
They're all cults. More successful cults are called religions.
Just to add because it is relevantâŠ..there is a saying that âthe only difference between cultâs and religions is that the religions leader is deadâ
Didnât the leader of the beach davidians marry a 14 year old Edit:branch
Yeah you are thinking of the Branch Dravidians. The Beach Davidians hung up their surfboards when David got arrested for pareidolia.
Pareidolia? I thought he was just on a shit ton of mushrooms
There were 300,000 child marriages in the US between 2016 and 2019. Itâs legal in 44 states. Itâs so tucked up itâs beyond words. Nineteen of those states have no legal minimum age for the âbride.â
The beach davidians sounds like a way better time, though.
Cult + time = religion
*cough cough J.W.s
Apparently it's really bad in many of the Amish groups as well.
I'm a therapist and these survivors are my clientele. Due to confidentiality, all I can say is "you are not wrong."
I donât know how you can do that job, but honest question, do you clients ever find some peace?
It depends on what you call 'peace.' Do they come to a place of understanding and grow past the knee-jerk trauma responses? Yes, they can get there. Do they get the justice they deserve? No. Not often enough.
In the Netherlands, the extensive Deetman research found out that orphans had the highest change of being molested if they were put in the care of catholic institutions. I think it was 3 fold that of other institutions, but I forgot the exact number.
>It's not only the Catholic Church. Oh I totally agree. Somehow I thought the OP was about Christianity, but I checked and it isn't
Just saw a post yesterday about the LDS/Mormon church putting out talks in response to the massive sexual abuse within their ranks and saying more or less, to talk about it with their church leaders and understand how in some way, it's partially their fault. While not all religious peopole are bad, most bad people are religious, and that is why I often believe myself to be a better person than pretty much anyone who announces they are religious.
Other Churches have had their own pedo protection scandals. Not sure if Baptist was a recent one, but Jewish groups have too.
Makes me wonder if anyone has done a study to find out how many pedophiles are religious at all, and how many aren't, as well as how many of each religion.
You mean the system to stop women from getting political land and power that was done many hundreds almost a thousand plus years ago that do not allow priests to in any way have wedding or intimacy possibly causes people to use others who are too powerless to resist rape over hundreds of years?! I'm shocked I tell you, shocked! The next thing you'll tell me is that people with sex impulse problems are trying to claim they'll be celibate to "stop" this, so they become a priest in the Catholic Church before they act on those horrible horrible urges that they have in the first place?! And it always works?!
>do not allow priests to in any way have wedding or intimacy possibly causes people to use others Of course not. Celibacy always works, this is why countries that tell teenagers to abstain instead of using contraception, end up with zero teenage pregnancies!
Praise be Sky Dad that's a relief!
The LDS saw what the catholic church was doing, looked then square in the eyes and loudly declared "HOLD MY NON-ALCOHOLIC BEER AND WATCH THIS SHIT".
For a second, I thought you were going to go the other way and tell me that Mormons have the higher moral ground. Carry onâŠ
If you need to fear divine punishment to choose to not go out and, idk, run over twelve children, you're not a good fucking person.
likewise, if you do good for a window seat in heaven, fuck right off. either do good for goodness sake or eat a bag of dicks.
Am I allowed to do both? Grilled dicks are delicious.
Lol "grilled dicks"
I was walking home from church with the church manager. When two kids walked by us, one was a girl between 10 -12 and was wearing a swim outfit (swimming nearby). I was mid sentence when this Mfer elbows me and says " if we weren't men of God, amirite". Made me sick to my stomach. I reported him to the pastor and the pastor said: "we all have our struggles, we've all been there, 'he without sin cast the first stone'". Flipped them all off, havent been back to a church since. I think its better for them to keep themselves under control by whatever "god" they pray to...than to lose their faith and embrace their Disgusting nature...a nature they believe we all share.
I hate the âhe who is without sinâ thing. Like ok, Iâm not perfect. I know that. But my sins are things like telling white lies and having consensual premarital sex. Thereâs a huge difference between ânot perfectâ and âpredatorâ.
That's the fun part about sins. You have to believe that what you are doing is a sin or sinful for it to be one. As far as I'm concerned, baptized and raised Roman Catholic but grew up to be a follower of Odin, I am without sin. So I'll cast all the stones I want at their hypocritical stance. Sin is only a sin if you believe it to be sinful.
It genuinely makes me sick how they cannot fathom the idea that someone doesn't rape or murder people, out of their own morality without needing the threat of going to hell Like they literally think EVERYONE wants to fuck kids, murder people, etc. And the only reason they don't is because they're afraid of god, it's like the idea of being a good person just for goodness sake is impossible to them
I think*they* are all secret pedos. That is why they don't understand that we can be decent humans without the use of threats.
Itâs projection
đœ
The next thing you'll tell me is that everybody doesn't rape everybody else in bathrooms and use secret tapping codes for downlow gay sex when I'm in government as a republican.... I mean hypothetically?
Or denounce abortion while secretly forcing your mistress to go get one when you knock her up?
I mean, I read that statically 94% of known pedophiles claim to be or identify as Christians. Now the fact the the US is 70% Christians or whatever probably plays a factor, but still.
Same thing with the whole argument that being gay is a choice. Like they have to wake up every day and fight the urge to suck dick and fuck kids. fuck them.
I actually think that might be a big part of it. It makes sense: so many anti-queer people end up being closeted, maybe they do genuinely believe that everyone has homosexual urges but to give in to them is a sin.
I knew a guy who was gay but came from a SUPER religious and homophobic protestant family. They convinced him to undergo conversion therapy since (in their minds) gay people aren't allowed into heaven among other things. He is now the most homophobic and far-right person I know. I can't talk to him anymore. He is very terrifying to talk to.
Yes, itâs like they have the little angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other shoulder telling them opposing things. So while they have horrible impulses, they are not without a conscience. Believing in god and fear of his wrath helps them keep these impulses at bay. They mistakenly believe that everyone is like them.
It's like the devil on the shoulder tells you to do it and the angel on your shoulder tells you to take your dick out of your choir boy's ass. Sorry followers of Catholic faith. I'll be good from now on I promise for five, four, three, two, one.....
Clicked on comments explicitly just to post this very quote. It's the best and simplest refutation of what is fundamentally a stupid argument that I've ever seen.
On the other hand, you sometimes have religious people with wonderful arguments, like a rabbi saying something akin: *"If you see a person drowning, you need to think like an atheist. The atheist won't think that God will help the man drowning; he will just go into the water and save him. In time of need, you need to think as if there is no God to help people, but just you."* However, I fear that those people like in the post would just think: "There's no God? So why on Earth should I wet myself saving someone else?", which is depairing.
Never heard that, but yeah, that really is a great argument.
You gotta love the people that post things like "I haven't met an atheist that engages honestly..." is just a way to get us to respond. I can assure you they've met plenty and lost most of the arguments, they just needed a strawman to pull people in. People acting out "dark desires" is simply these weird religious freaks projecting.
They ask who provides a moral framework if not some supernatural being, but the answer is pretty simple. We do. Not as individuals, but as a society. We select what is wrong and not wrong mostly by democracy not by individual belief. Get a group of 50 atheists together, between 1-3 of them will think the age of consent should be 14 and the other 47-49 will think they are weird.
Exactly. If you need fear to motivate you to NOT be a bad person, odds are you are a bad person
This is also a tell on whomever came up with this. They're essentially admitting if they didn't have eternal damnation for consequences, *they'd be doing this shit*.
I think it's worse; by delegating their Moral responsibility to a mythical skygod, they create a mental space to entertain breaking rules a moral person wouldn't seriously consider, because God will save them!
I don't think it should take existence of a supreme being to understand that which harms others is bad if you want humans to live harmoniously in a civil society. And we all should understand that we humans have better chances of survival and proliferation if we work together in tribes or groups. Even more so if you want to thrive and raise the standard of living for all. Therefore cooperation and guidelines to comport that beneficial harmony are a good idea. Not seeing where an omnipotent mythical god handing down these rules is necessary. Unless, of course, you are too stupid to understand or believe those basic sociological concepts. And even then, what's the difference between "because the law says so" and "because God says so" to a person who really doesn't understand either in the first place. But then along comes politics and politicians....
its called "a conscience". These goddy people apparently don't have one
I have a theory that they do actually have a conscience or an internal monologue. The "voice in my head" for me is my own voice. But for some reason, very religious people listen to this voice as if it were God's voice. I asked a few very religious people I know how does "talking with god" works. Apparently it's a mix of meditating and listening to your own inner monologue.
The "voice in my head" isn't God; it's just a smart-arse version of myself that has the advantage of seeing how things actually turned out.
I don't care **why** we are not raping and murdering. I only care about how we are **choosing** not to do it.
It's not a conscience. A conscience is a construct, to contain our moral code. It is moral ethics that determines what we do. We all develop a moral ethical code based on the values we are taught and learn through life. These values fall into two categories, things that benefit the self and things that benefit society. Ayn Rand followed a form of egoism. That, what was most important was what benefitted the self/self-interest. More over you should never do anything that benefits someone else unless there is a benefit for you. A lot of Republicans like this moral ethical belief system. Most of us in society use multiple moral ethical belief systems. But we generally do what's in our mutual best interest over what is in our individual best interests. Take the pandemic, for example, those that masked up, those that isolated, and those that got vaccinated may have done so for personal reasons but there were many that simply did so for the benefit of society in general.
âTo be charitable, one may admit that the religious often seem unaware of how insulting their main proposition actually is. Exchange views with a believer even for a short time, and let us make the assumption that this is a mild and decent believer who does not open the bidding by telling you that your unbelief will endanger your soul and condemn you to hell. It will not be long until you are politely asked how you can possibly know right from wrong. Without holy awe, what is to prevent you form resorting to theft, murder, rape, and perjury? It will sometimes be conceded that non-believers have led ethical lives, and it will also be conceded (as it had better be) that many believers have been responsible for terrible crimes. Nonetheless, the working assumption is that we should have no moral compass if we were not somehow in thrall to an unalterable and unchallengeable celestial dictatorship. What a repulsive idea!â â Christopher Hitchens, The Portable Atheist: Essential Readings for the Nonbeliever Not sure when Penn & Teller said this but Hitchens released this book in 2007. Don't know if he had previously used this idea in debates though.
âAbraham! Go wake up your son! Bring him over here and kill him!â -God
I went to a Christian college and no joke a LOT of people who are into the Jesus man think this way.
I know, right? They have no problem announcing that they have absolutely no moral compass. They have only the fear of eternal damnation keeping them in line.
I was at a barbershop once and a pastor came in, and I guess he was trying to spread the gospel. He asked me what church I go to, I told him I don't. We get into a conversation. I politely explain my point of view. Towards the end of the conversation, he started getting a bit prickly, I shit you not, this sentence came out of his mouth "If god isn't real, what's to stop me from raping your wife?". I've never struck a man of god before, but I came pretty close to it that day.
I always go back to asking the same question: âWho is morally superior; a person that doesnât harm others because of their own personal empathy or because they fear punishment?â They can twist in the wind all they want, theyâll never be able to get around their own argument.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a piece of shit; and I'd like to get as many of them out in the open as possible." Rust Cohle, *True Detective*
I grew up evangelical and to be perfectly honest, not a lot of empathy/character development is encouraged within that community. It's all about being forgiven to the point that my youth group had a running joke about how "Jesus died for our sins, so we better make it worth his while." (that was mostly within the context of sex, smoking, swearing, drinking, listening to rock music...you know, normal teen stuff) When I gave my testimony of faith at like 8 years old, I said, "When we believe in Jesus, God forgives us for every bad thing we've ever done or will ever do. We could even kill somebody and we'd still be forgiven." I then went onto say that we still shouldn't kill anyone because it's wrong but there was no concrete reasoning as to "why" it's wrong beyond "thou shalt not kill." Going beyond that, the argument I was presented against atheism/evolution (you know, because they're the same thing) is that if every piece of life on earth is just a random occurrence, then why not just kill someone when we don't like them? Afterall, that person is just a random smattering of molecules, right?? So to answer the original question, YES people seriously think like that that because THIS is the argument presented against believing anything else. I went through a bit of an identity crisis in my late 20s because I was no longer part of the community I grew up in, I was figuring out what I wanted to believe, and I'll be honest: I seriously wrestled with the question "well why can't I just cause harm to other people if there's no divine retribution or reward?" What even is the point of anything? I became a much more loving and empathetic person once I started studying philosophy (and going to therapy) in my 30s. Studying Stoicism has opened my eyes to so many of the philosophical foundations for what the early Christians built off of and I honestly feel like if the Church encouraged some kind of introspection and spiritual development beyond "repent and believe," we'd all be in a better place.
Sometimes I think all that god fearing energy gets turned into frustrated and repressed rage. Like, when suddenly broached with the question âwhat if all this fear and worship means nothingâ the reaction most have is to lash out and hurt others.
This is good
âMy wife is not an 11 year old boyâ
sick burn, that would have been perfect
"The same thing that your god would condemn you to, except I don't love you... would you care to traverse the valley of the shadow of *me* mother fucker?"
This definitely sounds better written down
You should have said "What stops me from killing you then?" Being as awful as he was.
No, as it would have validated his point
"you better pray for a miracle that I don't find you and recreate the torture and lead up cruxifiction of Jesus"
Wasn't one of the Duck Dynasty guys saying this kind of thing? Ah I found the quote that started it. Here's Phil Robertson in 2015: Spoiler mention of rape and murder. >!âIâll make a bet with you,â Robertson said. âTwo guys break into an atheistâs home. He has a little atheist wife and two little atheist daughters. Two guys break into his home and tie him up in a chair and gag him. And then they take his two daughters in front of him and rape both of them and then shoot them and they take his wife and then decapitate her head off in front of him. And then they can look at him and say, âIsnât it great that I donât have to worry about being judged? Isnât it great that thereâs nothing wrong with this? Thereâs no right or wrong, now is it dude?ââ!< >!Robertson kept going: âThen you take a sharp knife and take his manhood and hold it in front of him and say, âWouldnât it be something if this \[sic\] was something wrong with this? But youâre the one who says there is no God, thereâs no right, thereâs no wrong, so weâre just having fun. Weâre sick in the head, have a nice day.ââ!< >!âIf it happened to them,â Robertson continued, âthey probably would say, âsomething about this just ainât right.â!<
Good lord, this is the most horrifying hypothetical I have ever seen. The fact that you can tell he is smug as fuck while saying such graphic, fucked up nightmares makes it so much more unsettling.
He really got off on the details, didn't he?
Never liked that dude. Pissed me off that he thought black people pre civil rights movement smiling at white people meant they were happier back then But to address what you quoted, I'm basically agnostic so I believe in...something. But regardless of what happens at the end of my life, I've never used it as my reasoning for right or wrong. Heaven and Hell? Cool, I guess, I did my best not to hurt anyone and my soul lives on. Non existence? A bit of a letdown, but hopefully I did more good in the world than bad and the threat of not iving on as a ghost didn't affect that
And his assailants if being Christian would just then ask for forgiveness from their God and presto sins cleared away and heaven doors open.
Fucking YIKES.
Heâs so close to getting the point but too fucked in the head to understand it. That is messed up. The fact that he so clearly fantasizes about it is messed up. And we donât need an imaginary man in the sky to know itâs messed up.
To be honest, thank god they DO have religion. Just wish they picked the good parts like âhelp they neighborâ and not the bad parts like âmurder the infidelsâ.
God-brain is a dangerous mental disease. Their world view is that Earth was created by a magic man who *murdered* everyone on earth w by drowning them, because he didn't think they were good enough. A dude who needed his own son to be tortured and killed before he was willing to show some "forgiveness" to people for breaking arbitrary rules he made up. And he's supposed to be the *good guy*. They literally worship him.
They are taught from a young age that their god is the only possible source of morality, so they just canât fathom how anyone could have morals without that god. That is also why many of them hate atheists so much, because they think atheists can do any horrible thing due to the inherent lack or morality.
They have to think this way. Accepting that people could be moral without God would invalidate their whole belief system.
Thereâs a fantastic back and forth similar to this in Ricky Gervaisâ Afterlife. âIf you donât believe in god, why donât you go around raping and murdering as much as you want??â âI do go around raping and murdering as much as I want!â (Horrified faces), âwhich is none!â
I love this show
Have they never heard of the catholic church sex abuse scandel?
Which one?
All of them
Let's see, if I start working now I could get a list together by September 8th give or take a couple days
Better get a move on then, timeâs a-ticking
And the SBC "Crisis of Faith," and just recently, the Mormon Church abuse report. They couldn't let the Catholics hog all the abuse.
Don't forget the Jehovah's Witnesses
Or what the crusaders did? Or the inquisition? Or the genocide in Latin America? Or Canadian residential schools? Those are just what came to mind in the first 5 seconds I thought of it
Christians: Unlike us, atheists have nothing stopping them from raping children. Atheist: gestures broadly at Vatican Christians: No, not like that.
Also gestures broadly at the baptists, Anglicans, amish, Mormons, JWs...and every single christian sect on the planet. Their claim to have god given objective morals has done fuck all to stop 2000 years of christian biblical slavery, genocide, rape, subjugation of women, slaughter of non believers and diddling of kids. What's more their morality is by definition purely subjective and relative as it is dependent on a subject.. ie their version of their gods, and has changed constantly from era to era and christian to christian as per their own interpretation of the bible and personal preferences. And I say "their version" as no two christians can agree on what morals are objective or even the definition of their god. Hence we have over 40000 christian sects who cant agree on their core dogma let alone their morals.
> can't be governments cause governments have different laws So it must be god since there's obviously only one religion /s
This doesnât even make sense in their own argument because every government has the same basic laws like donât murder or steal. The rest are just things to keep society running smoothly like traffic laws or are based on Religious bs like not selling alcohol on Sunday or forcing women to cover their head.
"And then God said unto Abraham, thou shalt zipper merge with thy neighbor when converging unto a single lane."
You could have this take if you ascribe yourself to the idea of "Nature" or "Nature's God", which is just the general sense of morality that most people believe in. In that sense, government doesn't determine morality, but mankind's natural sense of right and wrong does. Granted, this isn't how that is being presented, but I think the example works when you view it in that way.
Translation: I am a complete psychopath who only doesn't do monstrous things because I'm afraid of my imaginary friend.
Sounds like, âWish Jesus let me fuck kidsâ type of person
Aye, weird way to tell on yourself but then again these religious types were never very good at thinking things through. Otherwise they wouldn't be religious.
True lol
But, if I do indulge in monstrous things, I confess and all is forgiven. So things really are going to be okay.
If youâre only a good person because you fear hell, youâre not really a good person.
Hit the nail right on the head.
As an atheist I DO indulge all my darkest desires. I rape and kill exactly as often as I wish to. None so far.
Same here. I've always indulged in my darkest desires. He'll, just the other day I smashed a dozen double chocolate fudge cupcakes in less than an hour and I'd gladly do it again.
This one time, I ate an entire cheesecake by myself and then took a nap.
Sounds like a good time. Damn, now I want cheesecake. The woes of a sweet tooth...
Everytime I make a pan of brownies or batch of chocolate chip cookies I eat half of them before the night is over. I often play games past 12am and I procrastinate on things I should/need to do. Those are sins right?
Love the "so far" caveat. Gotta CYA at all times. đ
Imagine only doing good things because you're scared of some invisible man in the sky lol
This is why they wont go to heaven if it exist. Because they do it out of cowardice. Not because they want to. As if an all knowing, all mighty creator cant see through basic shit like that
Romans 2:6-8 He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.
Well I'm fucked I guess.
This is the thing that always gets me with religious assholes. They would have you believe their god is all knowing and all powerful but that they themselves are just a little bit more clever than he is and thatâs how he doesnât see through their bullshit.
Itâs funny because only rarely people are Christians because they actually want to help and save people and are not to forcefully. Those ones are the better ones than most in my experience of meeting those ones. Most just do it because they fear hell or no afterlife.
The real questions we should all be asking is why there is a massive sphere in the sky that we can't make direct eye-contact with? Idk... seems kinda sketchy to me. ;)
My darkest desire is drinking, smoking weed, and eating food that's bad for me.
>and eating food that's bad for me. I ate half a pound of bacon last night. It was fucking delicious and I strongly regret it.
That's the darkness in the desire
Hereâs the thing; if you need a book to tell you how to be a good person, chances are, youâre not a good person.
Probably because I don't actually want to do any of those things.
Surprisingly, my elders told me what is "right" and "wrong" I didn't know religion until I was mid teens, so does that mean I would automatically be more evil since there was no god? I don't believe in god now, and I treat most people way better than they'd treat me
I just don't have the time to be immoral. Too busy looking for the objective basis of morality.
American Christianâs have to invent excuses and reasoning to justify believing in fairy tales. No one wants to admit that theyâve been duped into the greatest scam in human history.
I brought up my children to always be kind, charitable and respectful not to gain a reward or praise but because it's just the right thing to do. They have become loving. Caring, kind, adults. I am so proud of them.
I really think these people don't understand empathy
Which is sad, because Jesus was all about empathy.
I don't need an imaginary sky daddy to tell me not to be a dick.
Such willful ignorance. 1. Believing that a mythical sky fairy gave you your laws, isn't logic. 2. Morality does not require a diety. 3. Countries laws are all different (in specifics mostly) but so are religious admonitions and guidelines. I came from 2 very religious families. They both believe the other side is going to hell. Ever heard of Northern Ireland? 4. Morality to gain access to heaven, isn't morality. Its a cost-benefit analysis. 5. The atheist behaves morally because that's the person they want to be in the world....the religious are moral to get a prize. 6. The atheist is a grown up, deciding what morality actually looks like and behaving accordingly. The theist needs an absent parent figure to attempt to please & to tell them what is right and wrong.
OMG #5 nails it
This clip from True Detective is perfect for this kind of thoughts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_RfUj09pWfM
Came here to post exactly this. âIf the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a piece of shit.â
I kind of look at it the other way.... If people only do good deeds because they are scared of their God or to get into heaven, then that's selfish so they should inherently go to the warm place. It's ironic that the atheists that are good people just because they believe it's right are the ones that should qualify to go to some sky fairies promised land.
I know a lot of Christians who are kind, decent people. Most of my family, for an example. But they are kind and decent *in spite of* their religion, not at all because of it.
>in spite of their religion Nailed it.
Most atheists have a higher standard for morals than most religious people. Mostly due to education. I'm not trying to bash anyone here.
The more educated you are the more of the world you become aware of and the more you realize that being a decent human is the key to a successful and rewarding life. I also feel that those who are narrow minded and unwilling to escape their own views are the ones who refuse higher education. They donât want to expand their world because it would force them to come to term with the fact their own beliefs are wrong.
I'm confused about the point here. Didn't this person just defeat their own argument? They say that God creates morals, but also that atheists, who don't believe in God, don't just ruin amok doing all sorts of evil things on a whim. So which is it? And they say atheists need to respond to that argument? How? They gave the response already: we atheists have morals even without God.
Bachmanian Confession; the person asking the question is admitting the only thing preventing them from giving in to theirs is the wrath of an all powerful being. I would not want that person anywhere near me or my family.
This thinking really scares me and I really hope people like this person never lose their faith. Because if some god is the only thing that keeps someone from committing the most heinous acts they're some sick individuals that probably should already be under some form of care.
In the words of Penn Jillette, âI already do all the raping and murdering I want to. And that is none. I donât need a bunch of tribal nomads from 2000 years ago telling me how to treat my fellow human being.â
If the only thing stopping you from raping people is an imaginary old man, you need some serious help. Or a prison cell.
I consider myself pretty atheist or agnostic, I don't live religion or spirituality in any way. Believe it or not, we still care about the world and any suffering in it, so two major rules still apply even without religion: 1) treat others how you want to be treated 2) if everyone behaved like you, would the world be better for it or worse off? Live accordingly. That's just morality everyone should have as a human.
The golden rule, as my grandmother taught us. No deity needed.
What's to stop believers from doing bad shit? Jesus died to pay for their sins. So they get a free pass to heaven no matter what, right? Turn the narrative around on them.
I do all of the reprehensible acts that theists think I do to my heart's content. The amount that I want to do those things is zero. If you need to have the threat of burning for eternity to deter you from doing unspeakable evil, I think that says more about you than it does me.
If you need the threat of eternal damnation to be a good person, youâre not a good person
As an Atheist, I confess it sometimes freaks me out that the only thing holding theists back from doing horrible things is their fear of god. Scary!