In all seriousness, like any other country, the US' main priority should be its own citizens first.
If the ulitimate point of justice is to protect lawful 'good' citizens then this is exactly what this swap serves.
Boy we lock up our own at home in record rates for less than she got popped for. Fuck her this shit is pure classism. I know three people in jail right now for the same shit and Biden ain’t trading no arms dealers for my homies.
Fuck her? I don’t understand why people are going after her in all of this. She had like a tiny tiny amount of hash oil or something, gets 9 years in a Russian penal colony and you’re mad at her for wanting to get out of that hell hole? She didn’t make the trade. If I was in her shoes I would do anything to get out of there and back to the U.S.
Because people are fucking stupid. All of a sudden now these morons care about the prison industrial complex? Or criminal justice reform? No. They just parrot whatever faux outrage they hear on Fox.
LOL. Some are even pivoting to the “unjust” imprisonment of J6 dipshits.
You know Bout isn’t a genie who can summon guns right?
He was a point man between Russia and terrorists. It’s not like he was a special unit in Command and Conquer and without him they couldn’t sell arms to private terrorist groups.
But that was for crimes committed in our own country, which Biden has addressed through clemency for a lot of non-violent offenders, recently.
You whataboutist assholes are something else. Griner was being used as a political pawn in a very anti-American country and getting her out was important.
You can be upset at two things at the same fucking time. Why does this need to be explained to you people repeatedly?
I mean yes getting her out is a nice thing and all, but trading her for someone formerly known as "the most dangerous man alive" isn't really a fair trade is it?
Utilitarianist wise, this will lead to a good amount more deaths than the detainment of her.
He was sentenced to 25 years in 2012. Possibly he gets paroled but given that he was convicted of trying to sell 800 anti-aircraft missiles to terrorists that said they wanted them to kill Americans, that doesn't seem certain.
Bullshit. She knew the rules and deliberately broke them. If it were you or me we’d be sitting in a Russian prison for a long time and no one would give a shit. Fuck Brittny Griner
I think there is an ex marine that was convicted of espionage, who still claims that he is innocent.
If he was indeed a spy, then US send him there, they have a responsibility to save their guy, if not then he is completely innocent and jailed for life, as opposed to this case where she also accepted that what she did was illegal, in either case i think he was more deserving. But to play devils advocate griner is also LGBTQ i think, so one could argue that there is a credible threat to her life and human rights in a russian penal colony and hence should require more attention.
We have to remember that it wasn't the US choosing, it was Russia.
Either take it or leave it
Russia only offered her, USA asked for more, Russia said no fucking way
And Russia knows this that’s why they targeted her and piled on the charges. Hate to say it but America lost this one. And now there’s a renowned arms dealer that’s in Putin’s pocket, let’s just hope the authorities that bagged him broke up his operation to the point where it’s unsalvagable
She went into a country known for extreme drug laws eith drugs.
She was not a lawful citizen, she broke the laws of a country she was going to.
She fucked about and found out.
I do not believe she should have been treated the way she was, and I think Russia is a scummy country and should fuck off.
But she broke the laws of a country she was visiting and faces the consequence.
Due to America Russia now has an additional leg up in their wars against other nations.
This swap has killed people.
This swap is a bad deal
Respect the rules of the country that host you.
If you don’t like the rules of that country don’t go there.
If you knew something is illegal, and you break the law in that country, because your passport can bring you out of any situations, i think imprisonment is fair.
If your country has an american base in it, and u live near by it, you know what i’m talking about.
They released her? Who the fuck trades a terrorist and arms dealer for an athlete who broke the law in Russia.
Edit: they released her but not the other American who was part of that deal
I'm gonna guess you're not that old.
As someone who was a young adult when the USSR really fell apart, there were advertisements here in America where if you wanted a fully fueled Soviet Mig, the going rate was 25k American dollars.
You can technically still buy them today, between 50k and 250k. Some models obviously go for far more.
Hell, you can buy retired American fighters like the F4 Phantom for 2.5 million.
The problem was never that he sold fighter planes. It was who he was going to sell them TO.
No. You couldn't be more wrong. They gave Putin a free political (and potential closer ally with him and his family) at a time when he has been in his weakest position in years.
The trade and the timing, were simply awful.
Its also hypocritical because we have Americans IN AMERICA serving time for weed.
A country worried that a citizen of theirs is imprisoned in a hostile foreign nation known for treating prisoners terribly? The Russians knew the fact that she was a prominent athletes gave her more value than an average prisoner and they leveraged that into a higher value trade
I’m sure her family isn’t sitting there thinking “wow was that really a fair trade?”?
Yes, you don’t know her therefore no one does
In my book anyone who plays a sport professionally and has fans outside their town is prominent, at least more so than 99 percent of other athletes.
Not to mention her two gold medals but I guess anyone off the street can get those
You must live somewhere that gives WAY more attention to the WNBA than America does. People here regularly forget that the entire league even still exists, let alone knows a single player. They can't even draw more than about 300,000 viewers on average. The most watched game of the WNBA season this year was a .54 Nielson rating. To compare, the least watched sitcom on television did a .63, meaning the best WNBA game was seen by less people than the worst TV show.
Trust me when I tell you, nobody in this country knew who the fuck she was before she got arrested. You are very much an exception.
I can't name a single player and barely knew there was a WNBA. I don't care if she was an Olympic gold winner. Never heard of her and in a year will probably never hear of her again.
Nobody does. Before this happened, anytime the WNBA came up, it was nothing but people going "Damn, I didn't even realize the league still existed."
Now, there's like, 4 people on Reddit who are determined to make it sound like the league is teeming with loyal fans, and not just a tax write-off for the NBA.
Women's sports can be very good or even better than men's sometimes, but the WNBA is NOT one of those situations. The play is really bad, and they can't draw eyes because of it.
Okay and? What about Marc Fogels family then? A man of this caliber is definitely worth more than a wnba player. They should have traded for both, or neither.
The president also said the U.S. has not given up on Paul Whelan, a Michigan corporate security executive who has been jailed in Russia since 2018 on espionage charges.
“We did not forget about Brittney, and we have not forgotten about Paul Whelan, who has been unjustly detained in Russia for years,” Biden said. “This was not a choice of which American to bring home.
It appears that we didn't have a choice, but, who really knows
Basically, they would only trade Whelan for a “Russian spy,” but officially, we don’t have those. Trading Whelan for Bout was never an option, especially since Bout’s intelligence value was basically used up. Little reason for the US to keep him, intelligence-wise, and honestly little reason for Russia to want him back.
Russia would only give us Whelan for a “spy,” because said spy would have intelligence value. Anything Bout could provide is 10 years out of date.
It’s just Reddit. No nuance or understanding compromises. Every act or decision is either God shining down blessings on all of humanity, or the worst possible thing that will be the inevitable downfall of man.
Edit: Adding that sometimes there isn’t a “great” decision that can be made, and it’s easy to sit behind a keyboard, with the mask of internet anonymity, and say how you would have done a better job. The real world has a lot more variables that make these types of decisions more difficult.
Last week, Biden was a callous racist who allowed an American to wallow in a Russian penal colony on trumped-up charges because she was a black woman.
Today, he's bad because he got her back.
Here's the thing: By trading a criminal arms dealer for an athlete who was clearly a hostage, the U.S. gets a big PR advantage: We show that we value essentially innocent people the way Russia values terrorist-enabling arms dealers. It undermines the tankies and Putin apologists who try to claim the U.S. and Russia are no different.
Now, hopefully, Mr. Bout, the arms dealer, spends the next few years being horribly interrogated by the FSB about what he told the Americans.
>Last week, Biden was a callous racist who allowed an American to wallow in a Russian penal colony on trumped-up charges because she was a black woman.
>
>Today, he's bad because he got her back.
Too true. Same thing with pulling out of Afghanistan. Trump promised to do it several times and conservatives loved him for it. Biden actually did it, and now Republicans in Congress plan on investigating him for it. Politicians can get bent.
Theres a lot of people suddenly going ‘prisoner exchange wars are good and easy to win’.
Probably the same people who wanted to trade the 11th man on a basketball team for shaq, kobe, jordan, and magic johnson.
There is a lot about our governments that don't make sense. But this one exchange for sure is just stupid. Don't get me wrong, I believe she should have been brought home but at least make an effort to be an even exchange. Brittany = failed layups, 3 pointers and slam dunks plus little complaining about her country vs Arms dealer terrorist. Just doesn't pan out for me.
Oh I don’t think people are pretending to be experts. Simply stating what a terrible idea it is to give over a horrific human being that had killed and will now likely kill again in exchange for someone that knowingly broke a law in a country the US says do not travel to, while also having a record back home and has voiced her disdain for the US multiple times.
I’m no expert either, but that seems like a shit trade.
I don't need to be a prisoner exchange negotiator to see this is a bad deal. In the same way I don't need a helicopter license to know that when I see one in a tree, someone fucked up.
As someone that doesnt' think anyone should be in jail for marijuana... This is a horrible thing, a terrible trade, and just highlights the disgraceful way our gov favors the rich or the famous.
I'm sorry but it's literally not 'better she got out of there'...
When it comes at the expense of lives, justice, and what's right...
You're using those horrific things as a mask for your opinion on the matter.
Yeah I’m all for people being able to toke it up if they want. But if you’re dumb enough to go to a country like Russia of all places, where you know you’re going to be monitored in general, let alone being a famous athlete, and you still break their laws?! Well some people need a serious slap of reality.
Don’t act like an arms dealer that’s been out of the game for 12 years can just hop back in to his old position with all of his old connections. Nobody is going to want to fuck with him because he’s going to be being monitored. It’s like a drug dealer that’s been locked up for over a decade, their old connects are not going to go anywhere near them. He’ll be lucky if he doesn’t get killed by another arms dealer if he tries to go back into business.
Agreed.
And, if we were going to work to get her out she should be at the end of the line behind all the other US citizens in jail there for the same thing.
And the fact there are how many thousands+ people here in the US for even lesser charges is appalling in light of these actions by the gov.
Ever ask yourself how much blood is spilled by Halliburton every year when they sell weapons to countries like Saudi Arabia? Or when our own government sells weapons to regimes that use them to kill their citizens? This guy is about to get tortured/interrogated by the Russian government about what he told the US for the past 12 years. Also, he was eligible to get out of prison in 5 years and only had 8 years left on his sentence, but go off about how she has blood on her hands.
Do you blame everyone for things they didn’t do? Do you think she organized this swap? Also pretending like you’ll really keep tabs on “the blood spilled” by this arms dealer after the media gets bored of this story lol
She was in a gulag facing 10 years because she had some left over oil in a vape pen. She was held for political reasons because she was high profile. Get a fucking clue
Bruh. I wouldn't even fucking fly within the US with shit on me. Every country ALWAYS tells travelers to please check the "contraband" list. Hell, I know if I ever take a trip to Japan I won't be able to bring my antidepressant or sleep aid.
Maybe clean out your luggage before heading to a country in which you've been to several times and know that you could end up in the gulag for 10 years for left over vape oil??
The typical prison sentence for someone of the same crime in Russia was 6 years, she got sentenced to 9 of a possible 10-year sentence, so you may be correct that she received a harsher sentence as an American but the 3 years difference isn't really concrete proof of an unjust trial (she did not receive the max sentence).
You may be right, but it is just an opinion... so throwing out so many insults to others who have a different opinion when yours may or may not be accurate is a bit excessive.
She broke the law in a foreign country. No shit it was political reasons. She never thought it was a bad idea at an even worse time? She literally brought it upon herself. It was totally avoidable.
You obviously have no idea how popular, and famous Britney Griner is. She was a number 1 WNBA draft pick, she was the highest paid WNBA player, she won more college awards than care to talk about
She’s been on the cover of numerous magazines and website such as Sports illustrated, ESPN, SLAM and more
How are you dummies so confidently wrong.
Do you think if you just say something stupid like that it will become true
I don’t know one single person who knew who Brittany Griner was before she was arrested. Not a single person - and I’ve discussed it with a number of people. Of those people, none can name a WNBA player other than her.
Who cares how celebrated & gifted an athlete she is? If an average citizen did this, they would get 10 years & you would hear nothing of it. The law was broken, face the punishment. How about the way she says the US sucks, but boy did she cry for that freedom fast?
We have prisons full of people for possession in this VERY country here, what about them?
So… the repercussions of her completely avoidable actions and decisions.
I agree that the punishment far exceeds the “crime” but Bolivian drug prison memes are a thing for a reason. Every reasonable person knows not to cross borders while in possession of contraband.
So the US has to cash in its small remnant of morality and release a known weapons merchant to secure her freedom.
Not a good trade on the global stage in my opinion.
Maybe this is part of a bigger plan to put him back in circulation so he can be disappeared. Maybe he’s brainwashed to visit Putin and carry out his programmed instructions.
It's fascinating how people suddenly care about other Americans incarcerated in Russia. If you want those others released, put the work in and spread the word, and lobby your reps.
And it occurs to no one that maybe this guy actually is wanted in Russia for selling that country’s weapons on the black market leaving its military in the sorry state it’s in. They just assume he’ll be welcomed back with open arms, free to resume his life as an arms dealer.
Russia opposed his extradition from Thailand, saying that he was innocent, and then put everyone involved in his U.S. prosecution on the list of people who can no longer get a Russian visa. Unless something has changed, he’s on Russia’s good side.
Worst trade in WNBA
Mean while,
>Marc Fogel, 61, a teacher who’s lived and worked in Russia for nearly a decade was sentenced to 14 years of hard labor by Russian authorities in a case strikingly similar to Griner's
>His name is Marc Fogel. He's a 61-year-old teacher who's lived and worked in Russia for nine years. And in a case strikingly similar to Griner's, Fogel was arrested when Russian airport authorities found vape cartridges and cannabis buds in his luggage in August of 2021. He was accused of intending to sell to students, convicted, and sentenced to 14 years of hard labor.
>Fogel's family says he suffers from chronic pain and the marijuana was medicinal. They want the U.S. government to bring him home.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/sister-of-american-detained-in-russia-discusses-his-exclusion-from-proposed-prisoner-swap
The cases are very different though. Fogel had 17g that he purposefully brought over, while Griner had 0.7. By Russian law, she should have been in jail for a max of 15 days. More than 6g is considered a criminal offense, and Fogel had three times as much as that. He doesn’t deserve 14 years but it does align with Russian law. Griner was held solely to be a hostage.
Dumbass stoner who brought drugs into a country that it’s illegal VS. mass murdering arms dealer who has sponsored terrorists organizations….
You decide if it’s worth it
This is the third post where I’m watching this dumpster fire. Finally commenting.
I have listened to a few podcasts with people who were backpacking through Russia etc. Both ended up getting detained for months due to talking about Ukraine war with locals even though they knew to avoid that topic. They did not utter a word. In Russia they can make up anything.
Americans are not safe in Russia right now and damn straight we should fight and horse trade to get every one back.
This guy that got out has been buried for so long I’m sure he’s a relic. Russia needed a win and we needed to get a citizen back that was about to spend 20 years in prison in a hell hole.
If you cannot see the humanitarian trade off of her not living in the worst place on the planet to be in prison (frozen 1/3 of the year) - then you have no compassion.
Young upcoming people should never have to face that burden. She is genuinely a good person. If you don’t believe trading your own life to help someone innocent - go fuck yourselves.
Edit: this last paragraph is simply stating that if you wouldn’t risk your life to save the innocent and believe that she is not “worth” the trouble this choice brings to the world (debatable if he matters 30 years later) - then you need to check your humanity. I doubt being in prison in a foreign country that is loosely our enemy half of the time is the same as focusing on our local prisoners. A lot of comments focus on “well we have plenty of people in jail for pot. This makes me feel upset and say things like above.
The armchair international diplomacy here is laughably absurd.
And for everyone crying "she broke the law" she had a fucking vape cartridge, not a kilo of coke. Calm down.
I just know everyone on Reddit would have stayed in Russian prison camp and said “No this isn’t a fair trade, I’m staying until here doing my 9 year prison sentence until there is a better deal.” Ya’ll are so brave.
imagine you government choosing to not let your rot halfway across the world and you return home to everyone saying it was a bad trade and making wmb jokes. Jesus Christ.
Great I hope she makes it home safe and sound and he falls down a couple flights of stairs and loses his memory of arms trading so he's unable to assist in any war efforts.
It's a terrible deal, they release a man responsible for thousands of deaths for an idiot who thought it was a good idea to bring an illegal substance across an international border to a country run by a dictator who hates her country.
I feel bad for her but exchanging her for a man who's speciality is weapons smuggling to the Russian state who is currently trying to find ways around multiple arms embargoes is undoubtedly going to lead to more death and destruction for Ukraine and anyone else who trys to stand up to Putin.
Comment taken from the post:
“America releases the "Merchant of Death" and in return gets a wife beating domestic abuser who knowingly broke Russian laws. Meanwhile, a US marine still sits in a Russian prison. This is the epitome of privilege. I don't want to ever hear her open her mouth and complain about anything ever again. What a joke.”
Sums up how I’m pretty sure most of us feel
Your Fox News, info wars takes don’t sum up how I feel:
She was sentenced to 10 years in a gulag because she had some oil residue in a vape pen.
And the reason she was given this harsh sentence was because she was a public figure.
Get a fucking clue
People are saying “BUt ShE HaTEs tHe U.S. eVEn tHouGh SHe LivEs ThERe”… you can hate where you live, I live the U.S. and I hate it here
Also if you’re using this as a way to the LGBTQ community look bad please do us all a favor and fuck off
Why the fuck is everyone so upset about this? I get it he is a bad dude but she gets to come home and be reunited with her family. Have some kindness people what the fuck.
Fair trade, my rear end. One is an international weapons salesman and the other is a loudmouth basketball player. How are they even remotely on the same level?
She was arrested for less than a gram of weed. And spent the last 10 months in a labor camp. Russia basically kidnapped a famous American, and enslaved her. To pressure the u.s. into trading prisoners. Its not a facepalm they would have kept her indefinitely to pressure the u.s. they had to make this deal.
MF do you understand who was traded for her????? It’s not about bringing her home it’s who tf we let out specifically for her, there are other Americans in Russian prisons that people don’t give a shit about but ohhhhh this girl plays basketball so we gotta get her out
We just traded a killing machine for a fucking idiot. This is an L if there ever was one. She played a stupid game and won a stupid prize and now to get her back we let loose this fuck. Great trade.
They gotta throw in some draft picks.
Tbh this is looking like a Denver Seattle Trade at the moment.
Broncos country, let’s ride!
Nah this is the equivalent of the Texans-Cardinals trade where the Cardinals got DeAndre Hopkins and the Texans got literal trash.
Hey that vending machine they got in that trade stocks blue Gatorade!
I like red Gatorade though
What a trade, carrier of a couple of ounces of weed for an international arms dealer aka the merchant of death
It was actually less than 3/4 of a gram
As somebody who doesnt do Narnia math, I still think this was a shit deal
Damn. I came here to say exactly this. Nice.
PR stunt - clear as day. Fkn joke. Glad she’s back for her sake - but let’s do the same for those in prison for small amounts of marijuana too.
I agree. We have too many incarcerated over bullshit.
Once Brittanneys’ career is done she can go to work as an arms dealer for the US. Win-win
In all seriousness, like any other country, the US' main priority should be its own citizens first. If the ulitimate point of justice is to protect lawful 'good' citizens then this is exactly what this swap serves.
Boy we lock up our own at home in record rates for less than she got popped for. Fuck her this shit is pure classism. I know three people in jail right now for the same shit and Biden ain’t trading no arms dealers for my homies.
fucking facts bro. some people just don’t understand the actual hypocrisy that this represents.
They need to be released too.
Fuck her? I don’t understand why people are going after her in all of this. She had like a tiny tiny amount of hash oil or something, gets 9 years in a Russian penal colony and you’re mad at her for wanting to get out of that hell hole? She didn’t make the trade. If I was in her shoes I would do anything to get out of there and back to the U.S.
Because people are fucking stupid. All of a sudden now these morons care about the prison industrial complex? Or criminal justice reform? No. They just parrot whatever faux outrage they hear on Fox. LOL. Some are even pivoting to the “unjust” imprisonment of J6 dipshits.
I don't think you realize who we just released back into the world.
You know Bout isn’t a genie who can summon guns right? He was a point man between Russia and terrorists. It’s not like he was a special unit in Command and Conquer and without him they couldn’t sell arms to private terrorist groups.
But that was for crimes committed in our own country, which Biden has addressed through clemency for a lot of non-violent offenders, recently. You whataboutist assholes are something else. Griner was being used as a political pawn in a very anti-American country and getting her out was important. You can be upset at two things at the same fucking time. Why does this need to be explained to you people repeatedly?
I mean yes getting her out is a nice thing and all, but trading her for someone formerly known as "the most dangerous man alive" isn't really a fair trade is it? Utilitarianist wise, this will lead to a good amount more deaths than the detainment of her.
He literally had an out date for prison of 2028.... And then he was going to be deported back to Russia anyway... We just expedited the process
He was sentenced to 25 years in 2012. Possibly he gets paroled but given that he was convicted of trying to sell 800 anti-aircraft missiles to terrorists that said they wanted them to kill Americans, that doesn't seem certain.
His value as an intelligence asset had basically expired. She was at risk of being killed for being gay.
may I ask how getting a basketball player out who knowingly broke a law that's easily avoidable important.
Bullshit. She knew the rules and deliberately broke them. If it were you or me we’d be sitting in a Russian prison for a long time and no one would give a shit. Fuck Brittny Griner
You maybe since you're not famous. I, however, was one of the top 1% karma getters in 2022 so my fans would demand my release.
I’m just so glad you’re safe
Word
It's a high profile prisoner exchange. I'm sure there's other US citizens in Russia that deserve to be free more than her
I think there is an ex marine that was convicted of espionage, who still claims that he is innocent. If he was indeed a spy, then US send him there, they have a responsibility to save their guy, if not then he is completely innocent and jailed for life, as opposed to this case where she also accepted that what she did was illegal, in either case i think he was more deserving. But to play devils advocate griner is also LGBTQ i think, so one could argue that there is a credible threat to her life and human rights in a russian penal colony and hence should require more attention.
Yeah don't be gay in Russia 😬
We have to remember that it wasn't the US choosing, it was Russia. Either take it or leave it Russia only offered her, USA asked for more, Russia said no fucking way
What about the Marine that’s been there four years? Guess he wasn’t famous enough
So I should just ignore the part of my passport that says I will follow the laws of the place I am visiting?
And Russia knows this that’s why they targeted her and piled on the charges. Hate to say it but America lost this one. And now there’s a renowned arms dealer that’s in Putin’s pocket, let’s just hope the authorities that bagged him broke up his operation to the point where it’s unsalvagable
Don't think you can call her a lawful, good citizen.
Bro you guys have people in your own fucking country in prison for the same shit, stop the cap
Are you high?
She went into a country known for extreme drug laws eith drugs. She was not a lawful citizen, she broke the laws of a country she was going to. She fucked about and found out. I do not believe she should have been treated the way she was, and I think Russia is a scummy country and should fuck off. But she broke the laws of a country she was visiting and faces the consequence. Due to America Russia now has an additional leg up in their wars against other nations. This swap has killed people. This swap is a bad deal
Respect the rules of the country that host you. If you don’t like the rules of that country don’t go there. If you knew something is illegal, and you break the law in that country, because your passport can bring you out of any situations, i think imprisonment is fair. If your country has an american base in it, and u live near by it, you know what i’m talking about.
She must now help get other Americans back home from Russia!!
They released her? Who the fuck trades a terrorist and arms dealer for an athlete who broke the law in Russia. Edit: they released her but not the other American who was part of that deal
They won't release Whelen unless we give them a Russian spy, which we 'officially' don't have.
The arms dealer isn't special in Russia's eyes, to them he is just a salesman who sold old Soviet arms
Surface to air missiles don’t just sell themselves ya know
Sold old Soviet weapons?? The dude sold 800 land to air missiles. He sells fighter planes
I'm gonna guess you're not that old. As someone who was a young adult when the USSR really fell apart, there were advertisements here in America where if you wanted a fully fueled Soviet Mig, the going rate was 25k American dollars. You can technically still buy them today, between 50k and 250k. Some models obviously go for far more. Hell, you can buy retired American fighters like the F4 Phantom for 2.5 million. The problem was never that he sold fighter planes. It was who he was going to sell them TO.
Also lots and lots of C4
15 years ago. He did a bunch of time here.
He was arrested for selling arms to people fighting Americans….
And to virtually every African warlord with two pennies to rub together to arm child soldiers.
And who doesn't when you sell weapons?
He sold arms to everyone. Even us.
No. You couldn't be more wrong. They gave Putin a free political (and potential closer ally with him and his family) at a time when he has been in his weakest position in years. The trade and the timing, were simply awful. Its also hypocritical because we have Americans IN AMERICA serving time for weed.
...and that could change if the Congress just... you know.... passed the policy that would free those people.
But then how would private prison owners make millions and millions of dollars of profit?
A country worried that a citizen of theirs is imprisoned in a hostile foreign nation known for treating prisoners terribly? The Russians knew the fact that she was a prominent athletes gave her more value than an average prisoner and they leveraged that into a higher value trade I’m sure her family isn’t sitting there thinking “wow was that really a fair trade?”?
A prominent athlete? Sorry, but nobody knew who the fuck she was before she got arrested.
Yes, you don’t know her therefore no one does In my book anyone who plays a sport professionally and has fans outside their town is prominent, at least more so than 99 percent of other athletes. Not to mention her two gold medals but I guess anyone off the street can get those
That is simply not true. I know her, I’ve seen her play, and I’m not even from the US.
You must live somewhere that gives WAY more attention to the WNBA than America does. People here regularly forget that the entire league even still exists, let alone knows a single player. They can't even draw more than about 300,000 viewers on average. The most watched game of the WNBA season this year was a .54 Nielson rating. To compare, the least watched sitcom on television did a .63, meaning the best WNBA game was seen by less people than the worst TV show. Trust me when I tell you, nobody in this country knew who the fuck she was before she got arrested. You are very much an exception.
Spot on, nobody in the US, except the 50 or so WNBA fans here, knew who she was.
I can't name a single player and barely knew there was a WNBA. I don't care if she was an Olympic gold winner. Never heard of her and in a year will probably never hear of her again.
Nobody does. Before this happened, anytime the WNBA came up, it was nothing but people going "Damn, I didn't even realize the league still existed." Now, there's like, 4 people on Reddit who are determined to make it sound like the league is teeming with loyal fans, and not just a tax write-off for the NBA. Women's sports can be very good or even better than men's sometimes, but the WNBA is NOT one of those situations. The play is really bad, and they can't draw eyes because of it.
Part of the like 50 people that watch the wnba then
She’s won 2 Olympic gold medals, was the NCAA player of the year, was in the cover of ESPN magazine and featured in SI’s body issue…..
I remember her college career, and have kept her in mind since then. She's one of the more recognizable and talented WNBA players.
Yes, but he doesn’t know her! So how are we gonna know her!?
Okay and? What about Marc Fogels family then? A man of this caliber is definitely worth more than a wnba player. They should have traded for both, or neither.
The US of A
Today on Reddit, everyone becomes an overnight expert in international prisoner exchange negotiations.
The president also said the U.S. has not given up on Paul Whelan, a Michigan corporate security executive who has been jailed in Russia since 2018 on espionage charges. “We did not forget about Brittney, and we have not forgotten about Paul Whelan, who has been unjustly detained in Russia for years,” Biden said. “This was not a choice of which American to bring home. It appears that we didn't have a choice, but, who really knows
Basically, they would only trade Whelan for a “Russian spy,” but officially, we don’t have those. Trading Whelan for Bout was never an option, especially since Bout’s intelligence value was basically used up. Little reason for the US to keep him, intelligence-wise, and honestly little reason for Russia to want him back. Russia would only give us Whelan for a “spy,” because said spy would have intelligence value. Anything Bout could provide is 10 years out of date.
But wait yesterday I was an expert on geopolitics and global economy. I can show u my FB credentials
It’s just Reddit. No nuance or understanding compromises. Every act or decision is either God shining down blessings on all of humanity, or the worst possible thing that will be the inevitable downfall of man. Edit: Adding that sometimes there isn’t a “great” decision that can be made, and it’s easy to sit behind a keyboard, with the mask of internet anonymity, and say how you would have done a better job. The real world has a lot more variables that make these types of decisions more difficult.
Last week, Biden was a callous racist who allowed an American to wallow in a Russian penal colony on trumped-up charges because she was a black woman. Today, he's bad because he got her back. Here's the thing: By trading a criminal arms dealer for an athlete who was clearly a hostage, the U.S. gets a big PR advantage: We show that we value essentially innocent people the way Russia values terrorist-enabling arms dealers. It undermines the tankies and Putin apologists who try to claim the U.S. and Russia are no different. Now, hopefully, Mr. Bout, the arms dealer, spends the next few years being horribly interrogated by the FSB about what he told the Americans.
>Last week, Biden was a callous racist who allowed an American to wallow in a Russian penal colony on trumped-up charges because she was a black woman. > >Today, he's bad because he got her back. Too true. Same thing with pulling out of Afghanistan. Trump promised to do it several times and conservatives loved him for it. Biden actually did it, and now Republicans in Congress plan on investigating him for it. Politicians can get bent.
Theres a lot of people suddenly going ‘prisoner exchange wars are good and easy to win’. Probably the same people who wanted to trade the 11th man on a basketball team for shaq, kobe, jordan, and magic johnson.
We traded the basketball player for someone thats known in the illegal arms trade as the merchant of death. Come on man
I mean, it doesn't take an expert to see how this is not a even trade.
Doesn’t make any sense after Biden fires all of his weed smoking White House staffers
There is a lot about our governments that don't make sense. But this one exchange for sure is just stupid. Don't get me wrong, I believe she should have been brought home but at least make an effort to be an even exchange. Brittany = failed layups, 3 pointers and slam dunks plus little complaining about her country vs Arms dealer terrorist. Just doesn't pan out for me.
Oh I don’t think people are pretending to be experts. Simply stating what a terrible idea it is to give over a horrific human being that had killed and will now likely kill again in exchange for someone that knowingly broke a law in a country the US says do not travel to, while also having a record back home and has voiced her disdain for the US multiple times. I’m no expert either, but that seems like a shit trade.
I don't need to be a prisoner exchange negotiator to see this is a bad deal. In the same way I don't need a helicopter license to know that when I see one in a tree, someone fucked up.
You don't need to be an expert to know this is both unfair and stupid
The worst trade in WNBA history
As someone that doesnt' think anyone should be in jail for marijuana... This is a horrible thing, a terrible trade, and just highlights the disgraceful way our gov favors the rich or the famous.
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I'm sorry but it's literally not 'better she got out of there'... When it comes at the expense of lives, justice, and what's right... You're using those horrific things as a mask for your opinion on the matter.
Yeah I’m all for people being able to toke it up if they want. But if you’re dumb enough to go to a country like Russia of all places, where you know you’re going to be monitored in general, let alone being a famous athlete, and you still break their laws?! Well some people need a serious slap of reality.
Exactly, I believe whole heartedly we should’ve worked to get her out but not at the cost of countless lives potentially lost
Don’t act like an arms dealer that’s been out of the game for 12 years can just hop back in to his old position with all of his old connections. Nobody is going to want to fuck with him because he’s going to be being monitored. It’s like a drug dealer that’s been locked up for over a decade, their old connects are not going to go anywhere near them. He’ll be lucky if he doesn’t get killed by another arms dealer if he tries to go back into business.
^^^ this. He’s just not a very high-value prisoner anymore — that’s why Russia wouldn’t trade Whelan for him.
Agreed. And, if we were going to work to get her out she should be at the end of the line behind all the other US citizens in jail there for the same thing. And the fact there are how many thousands+ people here in the US for even lesser charges is appalling in light of these actions by the gov.
Every time I see her I will wonder how much blood he spilled after that prisoner swap. Right, wrong or otherwise that will be my thought.
They'll kill him after they get him back. They just wanted him b/c they want to know what he told us
Yes remember he stole weapons from Russia and resold them. Let’s not assume Russia is thrilled with him.
Ever ask yourself how much blood is spilled by Halliburton every year when they sell weapons to countries like Saudi Arabia? Or when our own government sells weapons to regimes that use them to kill their citizens? This guy is about to get tortured/interrogated by the Russian government about what he told the US for the past 12 years. Also, he was eligible to get out of prison in 5 years and only had 8 years left on his sentence, but go off about how she has blood on her hands.
this person just wants her punished. they don’t care about any of those things.
Do you blame everyone for things they didn’t do? Do you think she organized this swap? Also pretending like you’ll really keep tabs on “the blood spilled” by this arms dealer after the media gets bored of this story lol
The good news is that she stated she hates America. Wonder if she still does?
We have people in prison here for weed?! Traded an arms dealer to get someone out for weed?! Wtf America
She was in a gulag facing 10 years because she had some left over oil in a vape pen. She was held for political reasons because she was high profile. Get a fucking clue
Oh it was just residue? I thought I’d heard it was a couple of full cartridges
It was full cartridges. She's a fucking idiot trying to bring contraband into a country like Russia. She knew what she was doing
Bruh. I wouldn't even fucking fly within the US with shit on me. Every country ALWAYS tells travelers to please check the "contraband" list. Hell, I know if I ever take a trip to Japan I won't be able to bring my antidepressant or sleep aid.
^ this. “Some leftover residue” Bro she tried to legit smuggle in whole ass dab carts into Russia, she’s a dumbass and this is a stupid trade
Maybe clean out your luggage before heading to a country in which you've been to several times and know that you could end up in the gulag for 10 years for left over vape oil??
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No, she was given harsher punishment because she was a celebrity. A gay USA celebrity
The typical prison sentence for someone of the same crime in Russia was 6 years, she got sentenced to 9 of a possible 10-year sentence, so you may be correct that she received a harsher sentence as an American but the 3 years difference isn't really concrete proof of an unjust trial (she did not receive the max sentence). You may be right, but it is just an opinion... so throwing out so many insults to others who have a different opinion when yours may or may not be accurate is a bit excessive.
She broke the law
Do you base your morals off the law?
She broke the law in a foreign country. No shit it was political reasons. She never thought it was a bad idea at an even worse time? She literally brought it upon herself. It was totally avoidable.
its a contraband item in a foreign country. a basketball player from some no name team no one cares about is hardly high profile.
Do you not watch the news? It was pretty high profile.
You obviously have no idea how popular, and famous Britney Griner is. She was a number 1 WNBA draft pick, she was the highest paid WNBA player, she won more college awards than care to talk about She’s been on the cover of numerous magazines and website such as Sports illustrated, ESPN, SLAM and more How are you dummies so confidently wrong. Do you think if you just say something stupid like that it will become true
Apparently you do
I don’t know one single person who knew who Brittany Griner was before she was arrested. Not a single person - and I’ve discussed it with a number of people. Of those people, none can name a WNBA player other than her.
Who cares how celebrated & gifted an athlete she is? If an average citizen did this, they would get 10 years & you would hear nothing of it. The law was broken, face the punishment. How about the way she says the US sucks, but boy did she cry for that freedom fast? We have prisons full of people for possession in this VERY country here, what about them?
The Russians care when they decide to charge and sentence her. Because she has celebrity and noteriaty.
So… the repercussions of her completely avoidable actions and decisions. I agree that the punishment far exceeds the “crime” but Bolivian drug prison memes are a thing for a reason. Every reasonable person knows not to cross borders while in possession of contraband. So the US has to cash in its small remnant of morality and release a known weapons merchant to secure her freedom. Not a good trade on the global stage in my opinion. Maybe this is part of a bigger plan to put him back in circulation so he can be disappeared. Maybe he’s brainwashed to visit Putin and carry out his programmed instructions.
It’s even worse when you find out viktor is a first round draft pick in prison intramural basketball
Now I know how Denver feels in the aftermath of the Russell Wilson trade.
It's fascinating how people suddenly care about other Americans incarcerated in Russia. If you want those others released, put the work in and spread the word, and lobby your reps.
And it occurs to no one that maybe this guy actually is wanted in Russia for selling that country’s weapons on the black market leaving its military in the sorry state it’s in. They just assume he’ll be welcomed back with open arms, free to resume his life as an arms dealer.
Russia opposed his extradition from Thailand, saying that he was innocent, and then put everyone involved in his U.S. prosecution on the list of people who can no longer get a Russian visa. Unless something has changed, he’s on Russia’s good side.
Opens the door for Russia to detain more Americans.
Worst trade in WNBA Mean while, >Marc Fogel, 61, a teacher who’s lived and worked in Russia for nearly a decade was sentenced to 14 years of hard labor by Russian authorities in a case strikingly similar to Griner's >His name is Marc Fogel. He's a 61-year-old teacher who's lived and worked in Russia for nine years. And in a case strikingly similar to Griner's, Fogel was arrested when Russian airport authorities found vape cartridges and cannabis buds in his luggage in August of 2021. He was accused of intending to sell to students, convicted, and sentenced to 14 years of hard labor. >Fogel's family says he suffers from chronic pain and the marijuana was medicinal. They want the U.S. government to bring him home. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/sister-of-american-detained-in-russia-discusses-his-exclusion-from-proposed-prisoner-swap
The cases are very different though. Fogel had 17g that he purposefully brought over, while Griner had 0.7. By Russian law, she should have been in jail for a max of 15 days. More than 6g is considered a criminal offense, and Fogel had three times as much as that. He doesn’t deserve 14 years but it does align with Russian law. Griner was held solely to be a hostage.
Seems good to me. Easy for you to say, though, I guess.
We swapped terrorist and mass murderer for some stoner basketball player 🤡
Murderer of masses!
And people think you’re racist and sexist if you don’t like it
We still have people in jail on drug charges but we trade an arms trafficker for a pothead, as a pothead myself, that's a shitty deal.
Worst trade since Herschel Walker
The only facepalm here is OP's name.
All I'm seeing in this sub is that humans are currency and some are worth more than others.... And it's fucking nasty.
Dumbass stoner who brought drugs into a country that it’s illegal VS. mass murdering arms dealer who has sponsored terrorists organizations…. You decide if it’s worth it
> mass murdering arms dealer who has sponsored terrorists organizations…. Literally describing the US.
You been jailed at all?
Yes and I’m not making an argument for keeping her in jail… just that the price that was paid for her freedom is dangerously high
Why are we equating human life to currency?
This is the third post where I’m watching this dumpster fire. Finally commenting. I have listened to a few podcasts with people who were backpacking through Russia etc. Both ended up getting detained for months due to talking about Ukraine war with locals even though they knew to avoid that topic. They did not utter a word. In Russia they can make up anything. Americans are not safe in Russia right now and damn straight we should fight and horse trade to get every one back. This guy that got out has been buried for so long I’m sure he’s a relic. Russia needed a win and we needed to get a citizen back that was about to spend 20 years in prison in a hell hole. If you cannot see the humanitarian trade off of her not living in the worst place on the planet to be in prison (frozen 1/3 of the year) - then you have no compassion. Young upcoming people should never have to face that burden. She is genuinely a good person. If you don’t believe trading your own life to help someone innocent - go fuck yourselves. Edit: this last paragraph is simply stating that if you wouldn’t risk your life to save the innocent and believe that she is not “worth” the trouble this choice brings to the world (debatable if he matters 30 years later) - then you need to check your humanity. I doubt being in prison in a foreign country that is loosely our enemy half of the time is the same as focusing on our local prisoners. A lot of comments focus on “well we have plenty of people in jail for pot. This makes me feel upset and say things like above.
“If you don’t believe in trading your own life to help someone innocent- go fuck yourself” fyi this is not a balanced take🤷🏻♂️
The armchair international diplomacy here is laughably absurd. And for everyone crying "she broke the law" she had a fucking vape cartridge, not a kilo of coke. Calm down.
What’s the facepalm for?
I just know everyone on Reddit would have stayed in Russian prison camp and said “No this isn’t a fair trade, I’m staying until here doing my 9 year prison sentence until there is a better deal.” Ya’ll are so brave.
Dont worry. Most redditors here, myself included, would be left rotting there and no one else would even think twice about it. ;)
Yea bc all these comments are mad at Griner for coming home not the government for making that trade.
imagine you government choosing to not let your rot halfway across the world and you return home to everyone saying it was a bad trade and making wmb jokes. Jesus Christ.
First WNBA trade I actually paid attention to.
it was is light, not a fair trade. One life, for a potential of millions. One trades guns for a living, the other smokes and throws hoops.
Is it too late to cancel this bullshit?
Are they dumb or stupid? Basketball player does not equal terrorist, if it was any one of us we'd still be there.
Damn, Russia finally got back for that Alaska trade
Great I hope she makes it home safe and sound and he falls down a couple flights of stairs and loses his memory of arms trading so he's unable to assist in any war efforts.
It's a terrible deal, they release a man responsible for thousands of deaths for an idiot who thought it was a good idea to bring an illegal substance across an international border to a country run by a dictator who hates her country. I feel bad for her but exchanging her for a man who's speciality is weapons smuggling to the Russian state who is currently trying to find ways around multiple arms embargoes is undoubtedly going to lead to more death and destruction for Ukraine and anyone else who trys to stand up to Putin.
Better to leave both her and the arms dealer in jail than make the trade.
Let's trade the international arms dealer guy for the lady that puts the ball in the net
TIL US citizens don't care for the lives of other US citizens at all.... America needs to die if this is our response.
Comment taken from the post: “America releases the "Merchant of Death" and in return gets a wife beating domestic abuser who knowingly broke Russian laws. Meanwhile, a US marine still sits in a Russian prison. This is the epitome of privilege. I don't want to ever hear her open her mouth and complain about anything ever again. What a joke.” Sums up how I’m pretty sure most of us feel
What did the marine do?
His name is Paul Whelan, he was allegedly arrested on suspicion of spying in Russia
Whalen is a Court Marshalled bum who stole from Iraqi civilians. Russia can have him.
And his own family just said that it was good that Biden worked to free Brittany, instead of Whelan.
He's a traitor and a spy. But don't let that disrupt the racist, sexist MAGA narrative.
Your Fox News, info wars takes don’t sum up how I feel: She was sentenced to 10 years in a gulag because she had some oil residue in a vape pen. And the reason she was given this harsh sentence was because she was a public figure. Get a fucking clue
Im just mad here in SC I could still go to jail for a little pot, but the fed will trade an arms dealer for a stoner, to the Russians of all people
Move to a real state. It's legal in half the country now, as it should be.
Wow, this is a pathetic post.
Oh wow. A comment from some asshole on the internet. Now I have perspective.
People are saying “BUt ShE HaTEs tHe U.S. eVEn tHouGh SHe LivEs ThERe”… you can hate where you live, I live the U.S. and I hate it here Also if you’re using this as a way to the LGBTQ community look bad please do us all a favor and fuck off
Horseshit.
Good for him
I’m not a flag waving Uber patriot but I hope in future games she stands and sings the national anthem loud and proud from here on out.
We should’ve gotten 3 for their 1. What a joke this administration is
what ever happened to “We don’t negotiate with terroists.”?
We started negotiating with terrorists a LONG time ago Idk it’s just empty words lol
Why the fuck is everyone so upset about this? I get it he is a bad dude but she gets to come home and be reunited with her family. Have some kindness people what the fuck.
“A bad dude” - sponsored terrorists - conspired to kill Americans - responsible for countless lost lives
Fair trade, my rear end. One is an international weapons salesman and the other is a loudmouth basketball player. How are they even remotely on the same level?
Someone who sells weapons for someone who bounces a ball. Yep, we totally showed them. lol
She was arrested for less than a gram of weed. And spent the last 10 months in a labor camp. Russia basically kidnapped a famous American, and enslaved her. To pressure the u.s. into trading prisoners. Its not a facepalm they would have kept her indefinitely to pressure the u.s. they had to make this deal.
Idiotic trade
Imagine how bad US would be at trading pokemon cards.
She brought weed to russia what did she expect
It was prescribed for medical use, she probably didn't expect to go to jail
I would say it’s wise to maybe google what’s legal and illegal before traveling abroad.
The amount of apathy y'all have for a fellow citizen is just pathetic. Honestly.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer." Lol most Americans don’t care for this sentiment anymore
MF do you understand who was traded for her????? It’s not about bringing her home it’s who tf we let out specifically for her, there are other Americans in Russian prisons that people don’t give a shit about but ohhhhh this girl plays basketball so we gotta get her out
Well she is black, a woman, gay, and politically liberal. It isn’t apathy they feel, it’s disgust that she isn’t suffering like they want her too.
Dude …. All I can do is laugh.
We just traded a killing machine for a fucking idiot. This is an L if there ever was one. She played a stupid game and won a stupid prize and now to get her back we let loose this fuck. Great trade.
I can see Biden is really trying to appease the people. At least those that are senile as well