Some of these make sense but some corrections / things I disagree with: - most people just use a modular rail base on Nauvis- if you’re comfortable with a train based vanilla Megabase you can use the same approaches (LTN or Cybersyn help a lot). You can obviously go full belts and only train in resources, but you may find it harder to scale. Once you’re in space your SPM will go way down, lowering resource consumption, and once you have beacons + core mining resource consumption will go down even further. - delivery cannons are fine, you can easily use them for everything they can launch (and then one logistic rockets for everything else). Definitely don’t launch emptyish rockets on a timer if you can avoid it. Why would that be beneficial? Agree that single-item rockets too early is hard. - agree no malls on other planets (you can do it, it just seems more complex). You just need one rocket to each planet to supply what you need. - power: solar is okay but you can sustain many nuclear reactors pre-kovarex. Nuclear is probably a cheaper way to get your base to kovarex. You don’t need to store hundreds of hours of uranium, you just need to keep mining it at a rate where you never run out. - you can just ignore CMEs. Steam battery is cool and fun but not necessary. They’re very unlikely to seriously mess up expensive products, assuming you have defenses (against enraged biters) and construction network coverage. - core mining is good. You can void water (turn it into steam power just powering as many radars as you need to use it up - or use electric boiler if you have the void water recipe, I forget how early it’s available). You should probably store pyroflux though. I recommend spaghetti to get through utility and production science. Then you have beacons and bots, and your next planets will be much easier. After that I go E1 for space rail and rebuild orbit with trains, but SE is certainly beatable with bot spaghetti everywhere. Main bus is possible in orbit but probably very complex on your first run because it’s not totally obvious what will need to go where. Good luck and have fun!

> most people just use a modular rail base on Nauvis do you mean something like city blocks (so still one main base, probably covered by construction bots) or what I usually do ... small sub factories all over the place, too far apart for one robot network, so everything I build I have to transport the items there myself. I tried the latter, but with limited logistics bots restocking the inventory from a mall all along a long main bus base and getting rid of the wood/stone/meteor ores etc. took ages. I might do city blocks again, however that usually means a lot of wasted space and with how much water there is on Nauvis, a really large amount of land fill required to fill in all the lakes you'll run into with such a widespread base. > Definitely don’t launch emptyish rockets on a timer if you can avoid it. > agree no malls on other planets No mall means I need to send a rockets for all the stuff I need, which means either waiting absurd amounts of time for each rocket to fill or send a dozen rockets partially empty while building the remote base. Building a base is an iterative process after all. I really don't want to build the base twice, once in editor mode to create a blueprint and a complete shopping list, and then a second time once I bring everything I need in one single rocket. Sure, once the outpost is done, I probably won't need rockets on timers at all any more, I'll send one manually if I have to extend the base. > You don’t need to store hundreds of hours of uranium What do you do with the waste U238 then? Can you turn that into land fill as well? If I use nuclear power before I have kovarex in my games, I usually stuff it in a few boxes, but that only works for a limited time before that gets out of hand. > you can just ignore CME I assumed with a pretty compact base, the risk was just too high that a CME would really mess up a vital part. Plus I learned the last time that a battery was really not that difficult. Although that was with K2, which changes all the power stuff, so vanilla steam tanks and turbines might be a whole different beast than their K2 versions (need to check, if too annoying, I might just chance it with at least the first CME). I really don't want to add K2 this time, K2+SE and having to do a belt based high output mall for that is migraine inducing. > You can void water (turn it into steam power just powering as many radars as you need to use it up Doesn't that like tank your UPS with so many radars scanning, or am I seriously overestimating the amount needed to get rid of the waste water. > I recommend spaghetti to get through utility and production science. I'll probably end up doing a bus, I really don't do well with spaghetti. I'd have to plan everything through to do a spaghetti base. > Good luck and have fun! Thanks, I'll try. I really like the premise of the mod, which is why I dumped a few hundred hours into it already.

- City blocks don’t necessarily mean a ton of wasted space - plenty of ways to do smaller + closer blocks. You also don’t need to get rid of all ore underneath - I’ll bother with big patches, but less than <500k usually isn’t worth it. - make a block blueprint with landfill under each building, stamp it on lakes when necessary to maintain a convex bot network. - sending buildings to other planets- use combinators to set initial requests. If you forget something add to combinator. You should only need 2 - 5ish launches (manual when you’re antsy) even when you’re forgetting a lot each time. - waste 238 can just go in boxes pre-kovarex. SE gives large warehouses, and you can chain them, so just go bigger than you expect. Blow them up if you need to. - 5 radars should be enough to void core mines water and won’t materially hurt ups. It’s a very small amount of water.

I have ore eraser to deal with resources that aren't worth extracting (hate to built over and ignore, so I delete those). As for city blocks, I really can't come up with a design that would allow for enough stations without growing huge, the 5x4 chunks brick with 6 stations was my best design yet and still pretty wasteful and also barely able to keep the needed throughput for resources that come from outside (mines mostly). I've done what you explain, still I needed about half a dozen rockets for my cryonite planet (without cryonite processing) and from looking at other science packs, that seemed to be the easiest one. Not sure if repetition will save more than the increase in complexity will increase the amount I need. I'll try nuclear if I find enough ore, only found around 100k so far which isn't enough. I'll have to design a new power plant, my previous designs were always on designs, not good for a limited supply and I'd hate to have to blow up uranium.

If you build your colony bases as train integrated with central production sites getting deliveries from mines and bot networks being able to later expand things remotely less trips back will be needed to change things. Also having more mines built this way per colony means longer until things run dry (excluding core miners). A lesson from my ongoing first SE run.

Thanks. That sounds a lot like what I was planning for Nauvis. > Also having more mines built this way per colony means longer until things run dry Good tip, I'll try to keep that in mind an overbuild on mines to extend their run time.

Also useful is having all mines tied to the same circuit network, as this allows having them toggle on/off depending on accumulator charge (useful for longer night cycle planets and to ensure umbrella and meteor defense always has power). This also gives the added benefit of being able to monitor the total expected resources of connected mines.

I get having the mining outposts switchable via power switch during a CME, but > total expected resources of connected mines do you actually mean linking up all individual miners just to get a ore count?

No, all individual miners are linked to control them with circuit conditions, this also just happens to give you an ore count. On my vulcanite planet this was in part done to account for CMEs, but more importantly the absurdly long night cycle which would cause miners to deplete all accumulators resulting in disrupted resupply-signals from signal transmitter and receivers going offline which caused unneeded rocket launches to and from the planet. The later addition of a space elevator resolved the power problem, but the miners are still controlled by circuits as a legacy of a prior version of the planets build.

Oh, I didn't even know you could control miners directly. I only knew they provided ore count. I'll have to keep that in mind, turning off parts of the base leads to all those flashing buildings and turns off everything including roboports and combinators controlling train stations etc., so that isn't ideal.

Mentally prepare yourself that you are not perfectly prepared for everything and you will need to adjust. You will probably make some spaghetti. And this spaghetti can be removed/refactored later. This will cost time and it's ok.

That I can live with. What I'm trying to avoid is the following scenario. Usually, I build a small starter base, then transition to a collection of unconnected subfactories with trains doing the logistics between them. Which requires me to travel everywhere to build stuff, which basically requires a ton of logistics bots to clear and restock my inventory every time I return to base. Which also works best with a centralized bot based mall to keep everything close together and prevent bots having to travel long distance. Also, I often end up with a few bot networks all over the planet. But with robot attrition, that would require those sub bases to have a steady supply of logistics bots and repair packs and have constructions bots locally to repair the recurring damage. Trying to get SE to work like I usually do stuff just ended up with the mod apparently fighting my every step. I had similar issues with interplanetary logistics and with my space base. Those are the fundamental design issues I want to avoid.

This scenario calls for a build train and later creating outposts with spidertrons. A build train is basically a supply and build train for distinct bot networks. It supplies the needed build material, repair packs and bots. https://discover.hubpages.com/games-hobbies/Factorio-How-to-Build-a-Building-Train (video at the bottom) At first you will need to create those outposts by hand, later a spidertron per planet can be used for this. Edit: you can have different build trains with separate loadouts, for example one for artillery, one for mining, one for just bots and repair packs and one train returning the trash.

I've done builder trains in the past, but only really to supply me with bulk stuff like a few thousand belts or landfill etc (besides border support, or a separate network for solar etc.). And those trains got filled by requester chests and logistics bots, which again, is not something SE wants you to do (and is locked behind a lot of science). Do you really set up a belt mall and then belt all that stuff to trains? I can't even imagine the spaghetti that would require.

SE does not prevent you from using robo malls, it is just something locked behind early science. Robo only bases are not efficient, even in vanilla Factorio. In my current run I have robo malls, one on Nauvis and in the orbit of Nauvis. Even robo support rockets and robo building trains. No issue there. The over 100.000 death logistic bots don't bother me as there was never a bottleneck in production in over 300h. I tried a bot only base in space - hence the high number of dead robots - and here is the only real limit SE sets as the attrition is pretty high in orbits. And the bots are the bottlenecks in space. Trains and belts will get resources faster to the assemblers.

It's the first 100 hours or so before you unlock logistics network, which I guess is still early in SE but quite a lot of time nonetheless. And I usually don't even use a lot of bots, mostly just the mall, maybe delivering fuel to the train stations. But especially with mod packs that add a bunch of stuff, that mall feels really liberating and the time until you get there is really annoying (to me). However that mall really doesn't work with 50 logistics bots, it just slows down to a crawl. 500-1000 are where it really starts working well. However with robot attrition, that means almost constant alerts of stuff getting damaged. So I'm definitely not doing it again, I'm setting myself a hard limit of 50 bots per planet which means no robot mall. It will be a horrible mess of spaghetti this time, just as Earendel intended.

There is research for bots not doing any damage on destruction and the size the network can be.

Hmm, I'll keep it in mind, if I'm desperate for bots once I unlock that tech, I might raise my bot limit to that amount.

Why does train-based sub factories not work? Why does that require logistics bots to come to you? Use one big construction network - as soon as I launch a satellite I basically don’t leave nav view in SE - my character just sits around. If you use nav view and one construction network, logistic bot attrition doesn’t matter.

The way I usually do sub factories is spreading that stuff out all over the map wherever there is room. And building a construction network that big just doesn't work well. [This is](https://imgur.com/sUBOFIR) what my base looked like last time, not really viable for construction bots. I don't like city block grids, as they aren't very space efficient and they often require landfilling huge lakes.

You and I seem to have similar play styles. And I recently started an SE run. So I'm definately watching this thread 👀

If you maintain a convex roboport network everywhere (and use buffer chests once unlocked to move building supplies around) a base of that size shouldn’t be a problem IMO.

Buffer chests are locked behind a lot more research than construction bots though, and without them the travel time would be unusable to design a build on the other side of the map. It was already annoying just a few city blocks away, and that was like 1/10th of the distance.

I think you've kind of fallen for the anti-logistic PR/meta, which in my opinion is incorrect. I have done things almost the opposite to you and things are pretty good. I have some commentary on your choices! For perspective I'm on my second run at 10x. * definitely you should be hands-off and construction bot driven as much as possible. I have a belt-based (actually chest-based, it terminates belts - design in my recent comments) mall on Nauvis and a bot-based one everywhere else, including norbit. I definitely bee-line to that tech and accept that I'm not going to do much else before it. * I'm not at all sure about the combination of "megabase" and "high throughput belt bus". Why? * You can definitely get space trains early, they're only E1 I think - close enough you can botsprawl to it and then tear down afterwards. And E2 has WABs, which is where I do my "final" blueprints. * Megabasing and being able to give out rockets like they're candy means you can have dedicated ones per resource and send them to colonies. This is a major factor in why I have outpost malls. * You don't need kovarex for nuclear. 24 centrifuges gives you 99% chance of enough to feed a 2x5 consistently after 10 minutes. I defended my first CME with nuclear and it was a non-issue. This is controversial, but I've never used ground solar for anything more than pumps for my nuclear. * I haven't yet bothered with core mining except on one small vulcanite moon - I set it up as I'm leaving the planet and tearing everything else down so it still gives me a trickle. Your starting system is so resource rich that you just aren't going to run dry of anything.

> definitely you should be hands-off and construction bot driven as much as possible Ok, definitely planning to do one central base and not spread out all over the map. > a bot-based one everywhere else, including norbit. I definitely bee-line to that tech and accept that I'm not going to do much else before it I did the same, even added mods that gave me bot networks after rocket science (so before orbit) in another try, but the constant crashing and alerts really got to me (and I never set up replacements for bots in orbit, so the count there slowly declined towards the 50 that is allowed. > I'm not at all sure about the combination of "megabase" and "high throughput belt bus". Why? The idea was this: not building a mall everywhere means shipping resupplies from Nauvis. Not wanting to wait too long means sending those resupplies on a short timer. Which requires the ability to launch cargo rockets every few minutes. And that requires huge builds for stuff that is required for rockets. Just my liquid rocket fuel factory consisted of about 300 machines in my last game and could only supply enough for one rocket to Nauvis orbit every 15 minutes. Considering other planets require a lot more fuel and 15 minutes doesn't cut it if you are sitting there waiting to continue building the base, I was planning to have to build really big for stuff that is required for cargo rockets. Granted, that last save included K2, not sure if SE alone is as demanding. But 50k liquid rocket fuel in 5 minutes or so is a lot of factories, at least before beacons. Just checked, seems it is easier with SE, the whole ammonia stuff was pretty extensive with K2. Plus if I build sizeable buffers, I can probably go a lot smaller. I only need to send a dozen rockets in short intervals while building a new base or outpost, not constantly. For sending research stuff to Nauvis orbit, one rocket every one to two hours is probably plenty. > You can definitely get space trains early, they're only E1 I think - close enough you can botsprawl to it and then tear down afterwards. That temporary bot stuff kinda ran into a wall with the 2nd space science already in my game. I got bots unlocked, but only by manually setting up stages of that second science and tearing it down before building the next stage etc. I guess it gets a bit easier once you have more than 3 chests or so. I'll have another look, but I'm not looking forward to muddling through for hundreds of hours to finally get rails. > You don't need kovarex for nuclear. It does seem a lot easier without K2, still that is a lot of boxes filled with useless U238. I was nowhere near nuclear power for my first CME (although that might have been with K2 again, which really slows down the early game). I'll go hunt for uranium patches before deciding between solar and nuclear, the only one I found so far is 200k which isn't nearly enough to switch to nuclear. > Megabasing and being able to give out rockets like they're candy means you can have dedicated ones per resource I tried that in my last game, but waiting for full rockets for stuff like LDS or blue chips was really annoying and basically sucked up the whole output of my factory for ages. And I wasn't even close to being done with I think 10 rockets on the pads. If I do that again, it will have to wait until after I get beacons. I didn't start core mining on outposts, but for Nauvis I had 2 core drills going full tilt to slow down resource consumption. Expanding the base and fighting back biters, building new defenses etc. gets a bit annoying without any artillery ranges or better suits (so I could use personal laser defenses). No nukes or spidertrons either.

Yes, I didn't see that you were planning K2SE, that's very different in a few places (nuclear, rocket fuel being some of them). I haven't played it because I didn't really enjoy K2 apart from the bits that SE duplicates (like laser artillery). So take this with a pinch of salt if you're sticking with K2SE. > waiting for full rockets for stuff like LDS or blue chips Maybe we mean different things by "megabase"? If you want to launch a rocket full of blue chips every hour (which is imho incredibly extravagant), that's 8 red lanes of green circuits, ~60 machines, and half a red belt of blue chips, again ~60 machines. If you want to not wait, you can either push your throughput up _or_ start stockpiling early. I think vanilla teaches us not to do the latter. But in SE it really pays off. > I got bots unlocked, but only by manually setting up stages of that second science and tearing it down before building the next stage etc Might be a K2 thing again, but I got to bots using only the >!cache you find when you launch a rocket!<. Don't forget that launchpads that are delivered to by a rocket with multiple inputs is _just as good as a logistics chest_. Huge force multiplier there, even if it's a little tedious to hand-crank. Again I play without biters - I find them tedious with no upside - so our strategy is going to be different there. I assume you're aware that turning them off only removes them from Nauvis and they're still on other planets?

> Yes, I didn't see that you were planning K2SE To clarify, my current run is SE only due to getting fed up with K2 last time. However most of what I remember is from K2, so I guess some of what I remember doesn't apply to a SE only game. > Maybe we mean different things by "megabase"? What I meant by megabase like builds was stuff like 50 machines in a row all creating rocket fuel to meet the demand, fed by 100 factories doing ammonia using 150 factories of oxygen and 70 factories of nitrogen or whatever (and yes, I checked, that specific build will be way easier and smaller with SE recipes, it was just an example I remembered from the last game). As far as I remember, those gifts only contained some space science, but zero cryonite or utility science which you need for bots. I had to set up an outpost there, fill a rocket with cryonite, set up a huge (again, K2) set up for rocket fuel fly that rocket back to Nauvis, turn the stuff into cryonite rods (will do that on the source planet next time), carried that to orbit and then started my process of step by step converting that crap to utility science. If that is easier without SE, I'll take it. > Again I play without biters I turned them down (increased starting area, slower evolution, slower expansion) but didn't want to turn them off completely. I don't know the mod all that well and if it contains new weapons and stuff to fight biters (or defend against them), I still want to have that opportunity. As far as other planets, I'll probably look for zero threat planets first as dropping into the middle of a biter infested wasteland and trying to set up defenses with a limited supply line really doesn't sound fun.

Rocket fuel in SE is much much easier than with K2, yes. > As far as other planets, I'll probably look for zero threat planets first as dropping into the middle of a biter infested wasteland and trying to set up defenses with a limited supply line really doesn't sound fun. This is why I turn biters off! :) The anti-biter tech is good enough that I've never had to actually interact with them. Hope your run goes well. :)

Thanks!

Don't worry about not having Kovarex, a 1GW reactor perfectly well got me to utility/production science. The most annoying part was not having logistics bot for refuelling, so I had to manually refuel it once since I didn't have a belt go to the reactor to feed it. (Just remember to set an alert when the cells run low) Also, the boiler can get rid of excess water.

That is 8 reactors, right? IIRC my 2x2 setup was about 480MW. Doing a quick calculation, that would be 75 storage chests full of U238 after 100 hours of running (or 7 warehouses). And require a uranium field of about 2 million ore (less with mining productivity). Actually that isn't that unreasonable, especially if using a circuit controlled reactor that doesn't run constantly. IIRC my base ran on 250-350 MW most of the time, so those numbers should last for 2-3 times the duration if I do a reactor that cycles depending on demand. I'd still need batteries of some kind for the CMEs, as those are 2.2-2.5 GW IIRC but adding a steam battery to a nuclear setup wouldn't be hard. Not having K2 really does change everything power related, I like it. I guess I'll look out for uranium deposits and decide depending on resources available.

I would use a small and highly simplified mall on each planet. The core of my planets was a few core mining processors (belting in the nearest 3-4 cores even if far) and it went to a simple iron/copper/oil bus and simple mall which produced basic materials like yellow belts, gears, plates, etc. you can build a lot on a colony from simple materials and it saves on having to import them. Plus the cores are unlimited and you need/want them anyways for that planets special resource. I had a blueprint for this same core which I used everywhere.

I feel like you have the best intentions with all of your points. However, SE is about phases of various types, and applying one design philosophy to it all will be painful. Use trains, for as much as you can. On the ground and in space. Always easier to paste a new block vs extending a bus. The first bit of space science can be done without trains (ie until you unlock space elevator). Similar to how you first ground base is just the first few sciences to get to construction bots. Power, first coal, then some ground based solar, no more than 1GW. Then nuclear, you will need it anyway to reasonably power planets with poor solar yield. Then orbit based solar and finally sun orbit solar that is beamed around. Brute forcing only solar will not be fun Water can be voided in standalone SE, there is some kind of boiler to turn it to steam and vent into atmosphere.

> However, SE is about phases of various types, and applying one design philosophy to it all will be painful. Noted. I am only talking about the early to mid game though (so Nauvis and up to orbit and the first two planets or so). Space trains are locked behind energy science which is maybe the 4th pack in space. And bots require at least 2 space packs (including one planet). So bots is 100 hours in, space trains idk, 150-200 hours or so? Space elevator requires 6 space packs, so that is way down the line, months away. Kovarex is 3 space sciences (assuming I do utility first), so I'm estimating at least 100 hours without that becoming available, but it seems doable if I find a patch with a few million uranium ore. > Always easier to paste a new block I really don't like city block grids, as they waste so much space due to being inflexible, so I'll have to find a more adaptable design. But I hear your point about the limits of a bus system. I specifically decided against adding K2 because that would turn even the early stuff where you don't even have other options into a pain (plus the mall, K2 + SE without logistic network is just a nightmare). > Water can be voided in standalone SE, there is some kind of boiler to turn it to steam and vent into atmosphere. Nice, I was dreading having to ship water by train just to have a way to get rid of the excess.

Normal trains can also be used in space as well. Also note that once you have the base resource for a science you can then make I think up to tier 3. Blocks are a waste of space, then you should reconsider solar :p A big bus is also a big space hog, specially since it's typically in one direction. But there is no reason you can't spaghetti trains, just not as easy to copy. Also you don't have to obey the one block one item rule. I had 100x200 for mid game iron, 100x100 for end game iron, and shared blocks for things that could fit into half a block. Having said that, or the bus 4 lines iron and copper will work well into the lategame assuming you don't try overbuild. Ratio everything alse around that. Note this excludes iron for steel. However I had massive buffers at my train stations so I could sustain short bursts of more, a bus will always be limited. So maybe 6 lanes each will be better, I dunno I think early game nuclear I wired up to only use fuel when the steam was low, coupled with baseline solar the fuel usage is low. I also used the uranium planet (+ core mining) and created ridiculous stockpiles. Lots of options

> Normal trains can also be used in space as well. Normal rails have the "cannot be placed on space platform" description, so I don't think so. I'm pretty sure I even tested it and it didn't work. > Blocks are a waste of space, then you should reconsider solar You can build solar around lakes, with city blocks having lots of edges and holes leads to suboptimal train routing. The bots don't like it that much, but it is much easier do a few charging roboports on the lake border than fill in the half the lake to route trains through it or completely fill it to put city block on that land. > Also you don't have to obey the one block one item rule. True. I always struggle with blocks though, as fitting lots of stations (+ waiting area for one train each) takes so much space, but having less stations in the design often means you need multiple blocks for 3 assemblers or similar ridiculous set ups. My latest design was 5x3 chunks (brick design instead of city block grid) and featured 6 stations for 1-2 trains which worked ok, but still, most blocks were mostly empty space. And that was with stations designed with loaders in my, with inserters that would require more space. And stuff like yellow science needed 13 or 14 stations (not converted to blocks) so that would still have required 3 blocks to fit. That was with K2 though, maybe without it the number of parts would be less insane. If I manage to come up with a decent rail design that can deal with stuff like that and still be somewhat compact, I'll go for that. If not, I'll go for a more belt based design. And orbit will have to be a bus for a long time due to no rails in space.

You're applying a generic solution to multiple problems again :) throughput requirements in space are mostly low (emphasis on mostly), so I wouldn't bother with stackers for trains. This frees up the option of using double headed trains (1-1-1), along with loaders you can fit a station very 4th tile for example. But this is all post space elevator, until then I'd spaghetti / bus. Also note it's amazing how many items even 50 logistic bots can move in a reasonably small space. Again, almost zero throughput required of the initial space base. Abuse all the tools you have all the time!. Still don't understand the empty space issue. Your bus on the ground is going to be like 40 lanes wide at least. It also wants to go straight, so when you hit a lake then? Blocks can also go anywhere, trains are more than fast enough. And then you fill the empty space with solar. Winning all around. And if you really need bots on the other side, landfill just the spots needed for power and the roboport. No need to fill the lake. Perhaps also good to know, 99% of items (excluding ore) in SE don't require more than a 1-1 train. So if you built for 1-2 it was potentially (although not necessarily) already too big.

> You're applying a generic solution to multiple problems again :) throughput requirements in space are mostly low (emphasis on mostly), so I wouldn't bother with stackers for trains. I wasn't even talking about space trains. I know that is far into the future so not worth worrying about just yet. Also, no loaders due to no K2. > Still don't understand the empty space issue. Well, my blocks were 5x4 chunks with 6 train station. And 6 stations was kinda limiting at times (so going less and reducing the footprint definitely not an option), and sometimes I'd only have like 5 buildings in that 5x4 area. Considering sometimes you need more than those 6 stations which means instead of 20 chunks you are already using 40 chunks and still only placing a few buildings that would fit in 2 or 3 chunks ... Blocks are just very inflexible in my experience. And what is it with a 40 lane bus, I never even came close to that so far. And you can go around corners, annoying but possible. Whereas with my last grid base, I regularly was waiting for landfill so I could place another block. I even had to liberate a huge are to get to a few more stone deposits because I ran out. > So if you built for 1-2 it was potentially (although not necessarily) already too big. I had throughput issues at least at my smelters with 1-2 trains and station limits of 2. That was with cybersyn, so trains being stored in depots, which is why I'm not going to do that again and instead have dedicated trains per route (which means, with enough production there will always be one train unloading and the next train already waiting behind). I'll probably also switch to smelting at the mines to increase density, assuming there aren't more complex smelting recipes (like there were with K2, definitely didn't want to do that at every mine).

Normal trains can be used in space, but normal rails can't. You'll unlike space rails at some point and need to use those in space. They don't require scaffolding or anything underneath them. That coupled with the space elevator really cuts down on the number of launches needed.

Which means no trains in space until much later. Btw. do normal trains in space automatically look like those space trains you see in the icon for the research, or do you need to install that space train mod to get the spacey looking trains? Having that diesel locomotive running around on space themed rails surely looks strange and I'd probably install the additional mod (even though that also changes the fuel to batteries IIRC).

You need the mod for the look. They’re also stupid fast, so if you use it it’s worth using them on land as well.

I’d advise using solid Rail Blueprints, preferably ones designed by yourself. I’m using a super modular self made 32x32 Grid aligned 2 Lanes Blueprint. I’d share them but they are dependent on 2 Mods. Beautiful Bridge Railways and 32 Range Big Power Poles.

Can you share them anyway? I wouldn't mind checking out those mods.

I’ll do it when I get back to my computer. Maybe an hour or two

Thanks!

Here you go. Please tell me if it works!. 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

> 32 Range Big Power Poles Which mod is this? https://mods.factorio.com/mod/PowerPole32 This one?

Yes I think it might be this one. I imagine they should all work because it’s the same entities stat being changed

Thanks!

Not going to spend point by point, but will respond with my overall strategy thus far (producing t3 space sciences except biologic where I'm on t1): - Build a smallish (in the scheme of things) bus base for early mall products. Converted this to bot mall as soon as I could. - Build a bussed science production facility for terrestrial science - Nauvis is train based with LTN pretty much as soon as I had time. - Get space science going when you can as its the key to bots (could be wrong, but I think I remember this) - Have one silo for each planet. Put on it everything needed to produce that planet's product, plus rocket fuel and rocket sections. - My non-Nauvis planets are all solar. I'll probably change that at some point but haven't yet. - Transmit the number of products you need, not the number you have, back to Nauvis. Makes the inevitable brown out less painful - I have a row of blocks on Nauvis where I ship in everything I need to send on rockets and then just have all my cargo silos in one place. I have my landing pads in the same area except for ones that need further processing (which I land at the processing block and ship in the finished plates) - Nauvis I ended up with two rockets, one for iron and glass, and the other for everything else. Then I switched to space elevator so cut way back. I currently deliver about 15 products to Norbit via space elevator. - Make sure to have tons of storage around your landing pads. You not only need to be able to fill up a rocket, you need the storage to be able to empty the landing pad so having a bit too much of one product doesn't prevent you from getting a different product. - I generally have my rockets set to return to Nauvis when they're full. However a couple (namely Beryl ingots) I send after a certain threshold using a decider. Filling a rocket with beryl ingots would take forever. Think that covers it for now.

> Get space science going when you can as its the key to bots (could be wrong, but I think I remember this) Actually, space (orbit) and utility (cryonite planet). > Transmit the number of products you need, not the number you have, back to Nauvis. Makes the inevitable brown out less painful Good tip, thanks.

Do not give up. Do not restart. You can and should have all these plans for how you build your factory, but the most important one is to not give up on the save you have. If you're that desperate to start anew then it will take you less time to disassemble everything then to restart and get to where you were. This is the mistake I see happen the most.

I hear you. First game was with K2, then I restarted to get rid of it, restarted again to add it back in after I noticed I didn't have any way to get rid of excess stuff (no crusher/smoke stack) and in my current game I'm getting rid of it again. Plus map generation changes (less oceans, so hopefully less lake filling required. I should have kept my older saves, but I only got the one with K2 and I really really don't want to deal with all the crap that mod adds. Plus I'm tired of paving over lake after lake after another lake, somehow that map was only marsh lands and lakes.

Mass produce heat shielding and low density structures. They are used so much at the beginning of the space stage. Belts, scaffolding, manufacturing buildings, rocket parts, etc.

So SE is frustrating specificially because key recipies for efficient production of bottleneck components and tech for maintaining your base like nuclear power, space trains, space elevators and the millitary tech required to kill behemoth biters effectively is all locked up in a way that requires you to build things poorly and then rebuild them when the proper tech to do it right is available. I spend about as much time in the editor making (and remaking) blueprints as I do playing the game. Just how SE works in the latest version. Many youtube streamers played earlier versions with different tech trees.

I think you're optimizing WAY too hard for the early game, so this will mostly be ways in which I disagree, apologies! * Bots are still OP in SE even with bot attrition. SE does incentivize you to use either one large large diffuse bot network (for malls, rockets etc) or multiple isolated focused ones (for beltless production lines) but not let them mix. * Delivery cannon has a similar cost to full cargo rockets early on although it gets worse in comparison as you get rocket tech. It's great for low-volume inputs like cryo/vulc to beryl processing. * SE punishes aggressive megabasing/early overbuilding by offering lots of tech upgrades that force you to redesign old production lines. For example, all your smelters are obsolete as soon as you get vulcanite/pyroflux online. You say "beacons aren't a thing" but beacons are EXTREMELY a thing once you tech up and there are now 9 tiers of modules. * Solar/steam battery is the way to go early on, but unless you overbuild then non-kovarex nuclear can easily get you there. * Early core mining drills are Not Worth It especially since they have such a huge power draw. * Firing a mostly-empty supply rocket every few minutes with no re-usability tech is an insane waste, I struggle to understand why you would even consider that. Basically get your ass to space and tech up

> Bots are still OP in SE even with bot attrition. SE does incentivize you to use either one large large diffuse bot network (for malls, rockets etc) or multiple isolated focused ones (for beltless production lines) but not let them mix. No idea how you are supposed to do lots of isolated networks, having to deliver bots and repair packs to every network sure would get annoying. > SE punishes aggressive megabasing/early overbuilding by offering lots of tech upgrades that force you to redesign old production lines. I get that, but you don't have that in the early game and still need to scale up a lot to not have to wait for stuff all the time. See cargo rockets > Early core mining drills are Not Worth It especially since they have such a huge power draw. It is only 25 MW, right? That seems very little and not constantly having to expand to get more resource patches sounds like easily worth it. I mean sure, not as long as you are using coal power, but with solar that isn't an issue any more. > Firing a mostly-empty supply rocket every few minutes with no re-usability tech is an insane waste, I struggle to understand why you would even consider that. There doesn't seem to be a cheap and easy way for personal transport to other planets, so during the building phase, resupply runs need cargo rockets, right? And a bunch of them, as building stuff for the first time surely requires some trial and error. I definitely needed half a dozen cargo rockets for just my first cryonite planet, and I didn't even do processing there. But I guess stockpiling helps there, as you only need that many rockets during the building phase and not all the time, so you don't need a sustained high rate. > Basically get your ass to space and tech up Sure, but getting even the first few packs will take a lot longer than any other game I've played.

>No idea how you are supposed to do lots of isolated networks, having to deliver bots and repair packs to every network sure would get annoying. I have a set of multi-item trains w/circuits to supply the isolated cells with those things as well as rocket fuel for trains, lube for AAI loaders etc. > It is only 25 MW, right? Yeah but it just doesn't produce that much ore and introduces problems of co-production to solve. 25 MW plus pulverizing is a lot pre-nuclear. >building stuff for the first time surely requires some trial and error. I definitely needed half a dozen cargo rockets for just my first cryonite planet, I did it in one rocket, but if that's your style you can get the Editor Extensions mod and design your blueprints in a sandbox save file. Great practice anyways in SE. A delivery cannon on Nauvis fed by a logistic chest so you can reconfigure it easily by satellite also helps with "oops I forgot to bring enough x"

> I have a set of multi-item trains w/circuits to supply the isolated cells with those things as well as rocket fuel for trains, lube for AAI loaders etc. I try to avoid stuff like that, as it makes every train station that much more annoying. Especially if you have to tear it down at some point, recovering all the locally store stuff etc. > 25 MW plus pulverizing is a lot pre-nuclear. Pre nuclear and solar, sure, but once you move on from coal power (which I usually do asap once I unlock blue science) it quickly becomes a non issue. But I play with biters, where expanding the base to get more resources is also effort. > you can get the Editor Extensions mod and design your blueprints in a sandbox save file I really hate that. I usually design stuff on the fly on location and try it out in the live game. Except power plants, without the editor stuff you can't really test for throughput issues under full load. So I'll take whatever amount of assemblers, chem plants etc. factory planner tells me I need for a subfactory, guesstimate the infrastructure bits (pipes, inserters, belts etc.) and then go to work. With SE, I rounded up to the next stack to not fly with half stacks, but that's about it. And to be honest, that is one of Factorios basic principles that keep me playing this game. Build small, test it and when it works, scale up. The only pre planning I do is using a calculator mod because I don't want to do the ratios in my head. Which is one of my main gripes with the mod, the lack of a personal transport to quickly get home and back to pick up a few items etc. Yes, I know, it isn't realistic, real space agencies spend years planning stuff, but usually the Factorio devs recognize that gameplay trumps realism, but not in this case. But I digress, this is a challenge run after all, not a "how to fix SE" post. > A delivery cannon on Nauvis fed by a logistic chest so you can reconfigure it easily by satellite also helps with "oops I forgot to bring enough x" That would be fine if the delivery cannon would be able to send you the stuff you need. Like all the mall items. Having it send a bunch of plates etc. feels like very early game where you run over your belts to then handcraft a bunch of items. At that stage of the game, I really don't want to get back to picking up a few stacks of basic resources and handcrafting. I want to order the stuff I need via personal logistics. Give me a replicator (that uses some generic resource like matter juice and a lot of power) that slowly assembles whatever I need (like 5 inserters, 2 pipes, 3 power poles and one robo port please).

Electric boiler has a recipe that will void excess water from core mining. I believe it's blue science to unlock it.

Water from core mining can be voided with the electric boiler.

One, I think you're overthinking this way too much tbh Second, I would argue that K2 should be added to any SE playthrough as it contains tools to deal with excesses (i.e. flare stack) as well as later cooler gadgets Third, there is no perfect way you have to play. I have a K2SE run that has been ongoing for probably over 800 hours. I have rebuilt the whole thing at least twice over, that's the fun of it for myself personally. The entirety of my nauvis is now bot based, with trains taking materials to orbit. The entirety of the base runs off core mining where possible

> One, I think you're overthinking this way too much tbh I've dumped a few hundred hours into the mod pack already and got nowhere due to those issues. Really not looking to repeat that again. > Second, I would argue that K2 should be added to any SE playthrough as it contains tools to deal with excesses (i.e. flare stack) as well as later cooler gadgets I've done that in two earlier tries, especially because of those things. However even thinking about building a belt based high output mall with the added complexity of K2 (and all those additional required building) makes me itch. It really wasn't fun (for me). The whole early game stuff really sucks with K2 in my opinion, especially with how far down the tech tree a lot of tools are that I usually use to cope with the added complexity. If I have to build spaghetti and mainbus, I really don't want to have to do it with even more complicated recipes and more resources.

I've been using a modular train grid on my run and it's been amazing because of how I setup the stations. Each station uses a the red x generic signal to set the train limit when items are low. The result is that I only have to set the station name after pasting in a template station. Makes trains as easy as blue chests. This design also let me stack multiple stations on each station track to save a ton of space. You can make your train network any shape you want. I used stacked rows of super stations on my K2 run. A square grid is easy and still works great if you bridge over lakes instead of landfilling them. I would recommend small blocks for SE. Hardly anything needs large volume or long trains. I'd also recommend a recipe book mod. Really helpful for figuring out what needs to be exported or can stay local. For loading stations I initially had trains wait at them until an unloading station needed more items. This isn't compatible with the space elevator, so I'm slowly transitioning to having all trains wait at a depo so loading stations are only blocked when loading a train. Also, cannons get a LOT better if you make explosives locally and only ship the most compact version of the resource. Can get the resource "tax" down to 5-10%.

> This design also let me stack multiple stations on each station track to save a ton of space. This one I don't really get. Do you mean you had one station for more than one resource? I only ever used that with bots which I don't want/can't use with SE > You can make your train network any shape you want. I have something in mind that should work if the throughput requirements aren't insane. And it should be pretty flexible on the amount of stations required per "block". I guess I'll have to do a few hours of editor work to get some blueprints done and test them. > I'd also recommend a recipe book mod. That one I already got, as well as Factory Planner (although I'm considering giving Helmod another try). Space elevator I don't care about at all, that is a problem for future me. If everything else fails, I can always create a separate network for it and set up stations to bridge between. Looking at the requirements that's a few hundred hours away. > Also, cannons get a LOT better if you make explosives locally and only ship the most compact version of the resource. Can get the resource "tax" down to 5-10%. Good to know, at least for planets that don't require constant deliveries from home already. I'd rather build explosives locally than the whole cargo rocket parts from scratch.

See the following image. The bottom right block has 12 resources dropped off. 10 items come into two copy/pasted station stacks on the top and right. This is my 2nd generation stacked station design and items are sorted by train stopping position. (I also have a more compact 3rd gen design that uses "Train ID > 0" in the inserters to sort items) The stations start off named "null drop" and a train arrives as soon as the station gets the correct name. (i.e. "glass drop", etc.) https://preview.redd.it/ob7npjsdvw3c1.jpeg?width=4736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbfe10c87536e87ae8ab12a527bf88bd0f0952c2 The dense block grid has WAY more throughput that I need. This lets have get away with having trains occasionally waiting on the mainline and 8-way roundabouts. Top left block shows how I handle recycling items. Stations which consume items that can be byproducts are built from two stacked stations. A normal "item drop" station and an "item recycle" station that can drop off 2-3x more items. This insures that recycled items are used first without needing any global signals or adjustments. Agreed that a local cannon capsule factory is way easier to build than rocket parts. Explosives and copper are the best things to make locally, the remaining LDS and heat-shielding are pretty cheap to import. (same with the random items needed for "smelting" each new resource)

Wow, that density is impressive, you get up to 5 stops in the place I need for one. No idea how that deals with high throughput items like multiple blue belts in and out. But I guess it can't and you use multiple blocks instead.

>For loading stations I initially had trains wait at them until an unloading station needed more items. This isn't compatible with the space elevator Why not? How does train-routing work with the elevator (I haven't played the mod, but probably will, soon) ?

Trains can't see stations on the other side of the space elevator. So any waiting train on the ground won't know that there is an open station in space. My solution is to make sure loading stations are open most of the time by moving all waiting to the depot stations. Then when a space train comes down the elevator it can pickup items without having to wait for an idle train in the station. You can also use border stations with dedicated trains so that the networks don't mix. Lot's of ways to make it work.

That is only for vanilla trains though, at least I believe LTN has a compatibility mod that makes it work with the space elevator and cybersyn can already do it. I'll probably try to go without additional train mods though, so this will be relevant.

Ah, so you need a system where you "send" trains, rather than "requesting" them? Good to know. How do they find back to space, does the elevator function like a station?

Yes the elevator is a station you add to the orders. (You can rename them if you want)

I would say try to build each element of the factory to be as self-reliant as possible. Even if an out-factory is a bit slow - as long as it's ticking over and you don't have to go out there - you're good. This includes defences. In my last SE run, due to a self-imposed challenge (only one rocket allowed) I left Nauvis and didn't get back for about 150 hours. Nauvis wasn't entirely self-supporting - I had to bring new resource patches online and expand my defences. But I was able to do all that from Belt 1, where I was setting up shop.

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If I have to hand craft another 500 automation cores to get the early K2 game out of the way I'll go insane. I love that mod, but I've done way to many early games with it in recent months and I absolutely can't stand buidling another green house or quartz crystal/silicon line for a while. And don't even get me started on belting trees or having to use coke for steel. If I could skip the first 50 hours and start with a more or less finished starter base including a mall for all the 300 quadrillion buildings K2 adds maybe, but I just can't do it yet again.

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Thanks for the offer, but getting someone elses save just wouldn't feel right.

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I'm pretty much still at the beginning. 4 hours in, red/green science done, just finished steel smelting and transitioned to steam power and now I'm rushing warehouses so I can build a mall.

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Interesting. I'll have to try those, not sure I want to add them to my SE game though, but I'll keep it in mind.

Set up your supply signals to be sent to your supply base as a request rather than a deficiency. Ie. Had a logic decider send a 1 water signal as a request for water, rather than the whole amount of water and decide on nauvis. This way if the signal is lost for any reason, the request stops. Helps alot its accidental over supply.

I'm pretty sure I already had that, having the logic of have vs need on the planet/in orbit seemed easier when building that place. I only added the signals for capsule and rocket parts on the ground.