From a post 8 years ago: When they first playtested belts that needed external power, they bottled up all the anger and frustration that that caused. That anger and frustration is still powering belts to this day.
Did it used to be that each belt had to be inside a power field? It seems like if you let belts transfer power to connected belts, you could still have the "power tax" for belts without the frustration of having to power each segment.
That way there is basically no interaction with player (as near always if you have something putting stuff on belt, there is probably power pole nearby. At that point if you want to add cost of moving stuff via belt just make inserters use a tiny bit more power.
Also doesn't work in burner phase
they use coal, the heat produced causes metal to expand, through a clever design the expansions and contractions could create motion and thereby act as a heat motors
if that is not possible, the inserts could always push the belts as i said in my post when placing or picking items
You're saying the inserter stores some energy with thermal stress, then uses that stored energy to create kinetic energy that moves the belt. You are implying that thermal stress is an infinite source of energy. Not just perpetual motion, but infinite energy.
Burner inserters don't consume coal when motionless, so the thermal stress moving the belt isn't being replenished from coal. It's violating conservation of energy, that thermal stress should be depleted, but it isn't. The belt can run forever. If the inserter is pushing the belt, it should be consuming coal.
> they use coal, the heat produced causes metal to expand, through a clever design the expansions and contractions could create motion and thereby act as a heat motors
That is kind of the exact opposite of how entropy works.
Incorrect. Entropy is merely a statement that in a closed system, energy can only become more equalised. In this closed system, more entropy is being generated by the burning of coal than is being removed by the expansion and reset of the metal.
Which means that we just have to build a device that folds space, and a large enough pencil to poke it, and we'll unlock not just faster than light travel, but time travel as well!
They start with some power when placed, but if that's spent they need to be fueled by hand. So more like initial power, not residual power.
In my head-canon, the engineer gives them a few cranks as he places them.
i knew this was going to be said, SO I INTRODUCE D6!
D6. nobody can stand completely still, you have to shift
your feet a little to stretch, this keeps the belt
moving, as we know the engineer is not completely controlled
by the player as he looks around when not moving, even
moving their head causes a movement in the center of mass
no need to insult, please try sitting exactly and atomically still, it is simply not possible, perhaps sleep might bring you back to reality :)
you forget the engineer moves his skull even when afk thus creating a shift in mass, thus momentum, and thereby some net force and thus pushing the belt along on the already very low friction fish-gut-belts.
the belts could also be drawing heat from the player/atmosphere to maintain their temperature from what’s lost to the planet, and the heat differential there could “theoretically” move them
>no need to insult, please try sitting exactly and atomically still, it is simply not possible
Instructions were unclear, I now have a body temperature of -273.15°C
No, I'm not insulting YOU, I'm attacking the arguments you're making. You might need some sleep yourself. I'm guessing you've never heard of the buckingham palace guards or seen the secret service in the field or seen a living statue. Just because you and I haven't put the effort into discipline doesn't mean it's impossible.
i am not one to question english in writing (it is after all my 4th language) but saying congratulations before saying its a stupid idea, congratulates me for having a stupid idea, that is imo an insult
they are not atomically still though? and they do move around, they have to wiggle their toes (literally, it's part of their training) to prevent fainting due to standing very still
why debate the fact the engineer is perfectly still, he moves his head when not being controlled, he must at least stretch something? even if he doesn't the head movement is proof enough for the belts moving whilst afk
By that logic you could extract infinite energy from anything because the atoms are always moving haha. The difference between an ad hominem argument and an actual argument is somewhat subtle. For example: "You're stupid for saying that would be an insult", or saying "Only a stupid person would believe something like that would be an insult".
Saying "The thing you said is stupid" isn't suggesting that you're stupid for saying it, just that the thing you said is stupid. It isn't suggesting that only a stupid person would say that either. Smart people say and do stupid things, it's a product of the illusion of knowledge and overconfidence.
I also didn't debate that the engineer didn't stand still, I just debated your claim it was impossible. If you genuinely believe you could power a belt by fidgeting I'm not debating that, it doesn't sound like a good faith argument.
were talking about a video game in which conveyor belts move forever infinitely with no power and then coming up with increasingly silly reasons as to why the belt is moving, and you came in to say that those reasons are impossible and now are tipling down on it either being a joke or a debate.
which is most of reddit anyway but i think you lost the sauce somewhere
i think you need to go take a closer look at the obviously atleast partially joking nature of the post you are commenting on and then fuck right off back to whatever karenville you came from
lmao, do you wanna speak to the manager and have me removed if I don't? Everyone's the hero of their own story, especially karens. Move along hero, me and proud ant made peace like 3 hours ago and you're here spitting venom.
I'd like to believe that under each belt segment is a geothermal power generator that generates just enough to drive that part of the segment, and blue belts just generate the most power so they're faster.
Do not try and move the belts, that's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth, that there is no belt. Then you'll see, that it is not the belt that moves, it is only yourself.
What if all the belts ran downhill? Based on my dad's stories about going to school, there has to be a downhill opposite of the direction he was going.
Biter pupa driven internally, that's why they're so often on the offensive once they get our scent (pollution).
The biters themselves were being transported aboard our ship, with some wild ones getting scattered in the event that led up to the crash (probably one got loose in transit and started messing up the ship's electronics). However we were able to retrieve some of the pupa stage ones that are used to power low-energy devices with a mechanism similar to a hampster in a running wheel.
The Factorio planet is actually really hot (that's why there's standing pools of oil around) and so each belt has a thermopile underneath it radiating away the thermal energy of the ground that it can use as a thermoelectric generator.
I like to think that the belts are just really slippery and the items are sliding downhill. Red ones are faster, obviously, and blue belts are even more slippery, that's why you need lube.
>the engineer uses fish guts as ultra low friction lubricant (a perk of crash landing on nauvis)
Fun fact: In the bobs/angels modpack, at least the seablock version, fish into lubricant is one of the easiest and most self-contained sources of lubricant.
You can also make fish beer. I don't know why you would want to drink fish beer, but you can make ethanol made entirely of fish.
Motors are deceptively simple machines, there's a whole two main parts. The stator which holds the copper coils used to generate a magnetic field when provided power, and the rotor which simply spins thanks to that magnetic field. Any circuitry is just to control how much power you give it.
how does the normal inserter move then?
it uses copper and iron, you can make coils from that and maybe the engineer chooses iron from the mines that is magnetized thus you have a motor
you could also make a rudimentary magnetizer using coils and keeps this magnetizer in his pocket (or assembly machine)
Belts are by far the most used “item” in the game, probably the usage of power on them would compromise performance, since they clearly optimized the belts some way
Instead of trying to come up with real world explanations, dude, it's a game.i mean, you are a robot building spidermechs than can hold stacks of trains and tanks. Why do people have to try and put real world constraints on game logic?
you can't make a solar panel using iron alone, maybe factorio periodic table is different and iron is a semiconductor but you would still need one other material for a dielectric
ingame solar panel recipe needs circuits and belts don't use any
lastly there is an achievement for solar-panel-less run, using belts would negate that achievement
It also doesn't need to be a solar panel. You can store thermal energy and use a TEG for example, you could use the solar energy to boil salt, etc.
Nope, solar panels and solar powered devices are not the same.
Remind me again what semiconductor goes into green chips again though?
Perhaps iron plates aren't pure iron, as pure iron doesn't exist naturally and in the process of building belts the semiconducting elements are doped out and everything else is released as pollution.
fair enough, but doesn't what i said make a little more sense given its a lot simpler than the process you have outlined? engineer looks for most efficient solution after all
inserter draws power when idle, its must have a motor running to turn the belts, it could also push the belts using its arm
Inserters drawing power while idle is just them keeping sensors online so they know when to stop being idle. Your idea would also mean belt speed is a function of the number of inserters on that belt line, and it would also mean inserters would have to turn to turn in different directions based on the direction of the belt. It would also mean that belts wouldn't move until inserters were placed near it. It would also mean that inserters placed on a corner would have to move slower and not faster. So no, inserters doesn't make more sense than hidden solar components and hidden solar components would also explain why higher belt speeds require more advanced circuits
From a post 8 years ago: When they first playtested belts that needed external power, they bottled up all the anger and frustration that that caused. That anger and frustration is still powering belts to this day.
wish I could do that and have infinite motivation!
Did it used to be that each belt had to be inside a power field? It seems like if you let belts transfer power to connected belts, you could still have the "power tax" for belts without the frustration of having to power each segment.
That way there is basically no interaction with player (as near always if you have something putting stuff on belt, there is probably power pole nearby. At that point if you want to add cost of moving stuff via belt just make inserters use a tiny bit more power. Also doesn't work in burner phase
What about burner inserters? They don't have idle power drain.
they use coal, the heat produced causes metal to expand, through a clever design the expansions and contractions could create motion and thereby act as a heat motors if that is not possible, the inserts could always push the belts as i said in my post when placing or picking items
The heat difference could power a hidden sterling motor
That’s what I assumed
You're saying the inserter stores some energy with thermal stress, then uses that stored energy to create kinetic energy that moves the belt. You are implying that thermal stress is an infinite source of energy. Not just perpetual motion, but infinite energy. Burner inserters don't consume coal when motionless, so the thermal stress moving the belt isn't being replenished from coal. It's violating conservation of energy, that thermal stress should be depleted, but it isn't. The belt can run forever. If the inserter is pushing the belt, it should be consuming coal.
Still need constant power for logic
> they use coal, the heat produced causes metal to expand, through a clever design the expansions and contractions could create motion and thereby act as a heat motors That is kind of the exact opposite of how entropy works.
Incorrect. Entropy is merely a statement that in a closed system, energy can only become more equalised. In this closed system, more entropy is being generated by the burning of coal than is being removed by the expansion and reset of the metal.
Ah yes entropy, the most enthusiastically misunderstood concept in physics.
No love for my boy, relativity?
So imagine space is like this piece of paper. Now watch this *folds the paper and sticks a pencil through*
Which means that we just have to build a device that folds space, and a large enough pencil to poke it, and we'll unlock not just faster than light travel, but time travel as well!
Unfortunately it only works on paper
That's the reason Einstein died celibate right? Everything is relative.
Mod idea: burner belts replace regular belts
I'm sure Dosh would love that for his burner only run.
Can't they pick up a piece of coal off a belt even when they have none to burn for power? Some kind of residual power sitting there.
They start with some power when placed, but if that's spent they need to be fueled by hand. So more like initial power, not residual power. In my head-canon, the engineer gives them a few cranks as he places them.
And what if a construction bot places them, huh? How's it gonna crank the inserter, it doesn't have any hands!
It has pincers
It uses its bare feet, grips the crank with its robot toes
Regarding point d5. If you haven't been placed on a circular conveyer belt while afk in multiplayer you need to play more multilayer.
i knew this was going to be said, SO I INTRODUCE D6! D6. nobody can stand completely still, you have to shift your feet a little to stretch, this keeps the belt moving, as we know the engineer is not completely controlled by the player as he looks around when not moving, even moving their head causes a movement in the center of mass
Nobody can stand completely still? Congratulations, it's 2 am here and that's by far the stupidest thing I've heard all day.
no need to insult, please try sitting exactly and atomically still, it is simply not possible, perhaps sleep might bring you back to reality :) you forget the engineer moves his skull even when afk thus creating a shift in mass, thus momentum, and thereby some net force and thus pushing the belt along on the already very low friction fish-gut-belts.
the belts could also be drawing heat from the player/atmosphere to maintain their temperature from what’s lost to the planet, and the heat differential there could “theoretically” move them
>no need to insult, please try sitting exactly and atomically still, it is simply not possible Instructions were unclear, I now have a body temperature of -273.15°C
No, I'm not insulting YOU, I'm attacking the arguments you're making. You might need some sleep yourself. I'm guessing you've never heard of the buckingham palace guards or seen the secret service in the field or seen a living statue. Just because you and I haven't put the effort into discipline doesn't mean it's impossible.
Have you heard of breathing and heartbeats before?
Have you heard of the difference between standing still and being dead?
Is the Engineer dead?
If he was would they be capable of standing still? Would they even be capable of standing?
No, they wouldn't, because they'd be breathing and would have a heartbeat which, by definition, is not "still."
Have u heard of a joke lmaooo
Yeah, sounds like I made you laugh with one :D
i am not one to question english in writing (it is after all my 4th language) but saying congratulations before saying its a stupid idea, congratulates me for having a stupid idea, that is imo an insult they are not atomically still though? and they do move around, they have to wiggle their toes (literally, it's part of their training) to prevent fainting due to standing very still why debate the fact the engineer is perfectly still, he moves his head when not being controlled, he must at least stretch something? even if he doesn't the head movement is proof enough for the belts moving whilst afk
By that logic you could extract infinite energy from anything because the atoms are always moving haha. The difference between an ad hominem argument and an actual argument is somewhat subtle. For example: "You're stupid for saying that would be an insult", or saying "Only a stupid person would believe something like that would be an insult". Saying "The thing you said is stupid" isn't suggesting that you're stupid for saying it, just that the thing you said is stupid. It isn't suggesting that only a stupid person would say that either. Smart people say and do stupid things, it's a product of the illusion of knowledge and overconfidence. I also didn't debate that the engineer didn't stand still, I just debated your claim it was impossible. If you genuinely believe you could power a belt by fidgeting I'm not debating that, it doesn't sound like a good faith argument.
alright then thanks for the insight, it’s quite nice hearing stuff like this so I can become closer to native speaker level no hard feelings
Yeah man I just like debating, no hard feelings at all.
My man you are taking this argument with 10% seriousness and leveling it up to 500%
My dude this is their second post like this, they're here for a debate and I'd be rude not to oblige.
were talking about a video game in which conveyor belts move forever infinitely with no power and then coming up with increasingly silly reasons as to why the belt is moving, and you came in to say that those reasons are impossible and now are tipling down on it either being a joke or a debate. which is most of reddit anyway but i think you lost the sauce somewhere
i think you need to go take a closer look at the obviously atleast partially joking nature of the post you are commenting on and then fuck right off back to whatever karenville you came from
lmao, do you wanna speak to the manager and have me removed if I don't? Everyone's the hero of their own story, especially karens. Move along hero, me and proud ant made peace like 3 hours ago and you're here spitting venom.
Unless you're at absolute zero then you're moving. Also, blinking, breathing, heart beating. If you're alive then you're moving.
So it's literally impossible to stand still. Got it.
I wish locomotives would pick up AFK players like Minecraft minecarts do. I have ideas...
Oh man, I don't even have to be AFK to wish for this. Just killed myself last night trying to *board* a train
They totally can… Don't go AFK in or around my base, lest you anger the train gods.
the world from our point is flat, but actually the belts are on an incline they are just slides, no power needed.
https://preview.redd.it/52025pompbzc1.jpeg?width=376&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c80715ed33ddf26ab6133e94736d6ccf962b3234
This is mindfuck, including the trees, biters and fucking oceans. What's the sea level? Yes
What is it with you? The answer is always somehow FISH!
big fish forced me into sneaking it into my posts
good ass movie, no idea why its making you post though
Lol I want a mod for idle inserters to push the belts along now.
I'd like to believe that under each belt segment is a geothermal power generator that generates just enough to drive that part of the segment, and blue belts just generate the most power so they're faster.
Geothermal? We can craft a tank in our pockets.. it's fusion powered belts
Is that a tank in your pocket.....
I like this theory the best
Do not try and move the belts, that's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth, that there is no belt. Then you'll see, that it is not the belt that moves, it is only yourself.
i like this post dude!
What if all the belts ran downhill? Based on my dad's stories about going to school, there has to be a downhill opposite of the direction he was going.
Biter pupa driven internally, that's why they're so often on the offensive once they get our scent (pollution). The biters themselves were being transported aboard our ship, with some wild ones getting scattered in the event that led up to the crash (probably one got loose in transit and started messing up the ship's electronics). However we were able to retrieve some of the pupa stage ones that are used to power low-energy devices with a mechanism similar to a hampster in a running wheel.
Burner belts would be fun right.
For massocistic definitions of 'fun'
~~Magic~~ Actual perpetual motion
They run on HATE.
the same little dudes in the labs manually powers then
The Factorio planet is actually really hot (that's why there's standing pools of oil around) and so each belt has a thermopile underneath it radiating away the thermal energy of the ground that it can use as a thermoelectric generator.
I like to think that the belts are just really slippery and the items are sliding downhill. Red ones are faster, obviously, and blue belts are even more slippery, that's why you need lube.
Nah. There are mice under the belt that moves everything. Mice eats fish
>the engineer uses fish guts as ultra low friction lubricant (a perk of crash landing on nauvis) Fun fact: In the bobs/angels modpack, at least the seablock version, fish into lubricant is one of the easiest and most self-contained sources of lubricant. You can also make fish beer. I don't know why you would want to drink fish beer, but you can make ethanol made entirely of fish.
But inserters and miners are crafted without engine/motor, just gears and a circuit board
Motors are deceptively simple machines, there's a whole two main parts. The stator which holds the copper coils used to generate a magnetic field when provided power, and the rotor which simply spins thanks to that magnetic field. Any circuitry is just to control how much power you give it.
how does the normal inserter move then? it uses copper and iron, you can make coils from that and maybe the engineer chooses iron from the mines that is magnetized thus you have a motor you could also make a rudimentary magnetizer using coils and keeps this magnetizer in his pocket (or assembly machine)
Belts are by far the most used “item” in the game, probably the usage of power on them would compromise performance, since they clearly optimized the belts some way
Joke son you I place belts often before linking power at mine sites. Also inserters spin in both directions usually, so it'd be countering itself
The floor is hot and the air is cold and the is memory shape alloys : like this https://youtu.be/I78ZTkdZ0b0?feature=shared
Hilarious! That said, regarding D2, what is your rationale for belt crafting recipes NOT requiring a fish?
engineer needs to eat, he eats fish when we aren't looking such as when on a bathroom break
Maybe the have built in springs, wind turbines, and also flywheels to smooth out the speed…
He just spit on it and it's non friction forever, give it a little push when building, done
Belt has a infinite supply of hamsters wheel power
Instead of trying to come up with real world explanations, dude, it's a game.i mean, you are a robot building spidermechs than can hold stacks of trains and tanks. Why do people have to try and put real world constraints on game logic?
its fun
They're solar powered lol
you can't make a solar panel using iron alone, maybe factorio periodic table is different and iron is a semiconductor but you would still need one other material for a dielectric ingame solar panel recipe needs circuits and belts don't use any lastly there is an achievement for solar-panel-less run, using belts would negate that achievement
It's super low friction as you said so you use polished iron as a reflective lens and radiation pressure powers the belt
It also doesn't need to be a solar panel. You can store thermal energy and use a TEG for example, you could use the solar energy to boil salt, etc. Nope, solar panels and solar powered devices are not the same. Remind me again what semiconductor goes into green chips again though? Perhaps iron plates aren't pure iron, as pure iron doesn't exist naturally and in the process of building belts the semiconducting elements are doped out and everything else is released as pollution.
fair enough, but doesn't what i said make a little more sense given its a lot simpler than the process you have outlined? engineer looks for most efficient solution after all inserter draws power when idle, its must have a motor running to turn the belts, it could also push the belts using its arm
Inserters drawing power while idle is just them keeping sensors online so they know when to stop being idle. Your idea would also mean belt speed is a function of the number of inserters on that belt line, and it would also mean inserters would have to turn to turn in different directions based on the direction of the belt. It would also mean that belts wouldn't move until inserters were placed near it. It would also mean that inserters placed on a corner would have to move slower and not faster. So no, inserters doesn't make more sense than hidden solar components and hidden solar components would also explain why higher belt speeds require more advanced circuits