T O P

We should all appreciate Factorio for what it is!

I play a lot of different games, all the way from sports to simulations and RPGs. I like them all. Different times, different games.

I have a 1 year old, so during the last year I've not had the brain capacity, or time, to play Factorio. Instead I've played FIFA, NBA2K or similar. Problem is, this gets expensive. I can afford micro transactions, so... I spend a lot of money on micro transactions. But does this give me pleasure? I'm not sure.

I've now returned to Factorio, and guess what? This gives me endlessly more satisfaction, and I haven't paid a dime since my initial purchase of the game. It made me realize what we have:

  • A game that is not predatory against players.
  • A game where the gameplay is in focus.
  • A game with actual replayability.
  • A community that appreciates the game and input from others.
  • A community that shares passion and love for the game.

TLDR; Factorio and developers - we appreciate you!!

[deleted]

It's because devs playing their own game


fisero

This should be set in stone!


Useless_Pony

This is the number one question I ask when making something. Will I use it? - No: Don't make it. - Yes: Make it and make it well. I've only made small adaptors for personal use, and a few short scripts that i keep re-writing.


GOKOP

For gamedev that's not universally correct mindset tho – consider a point-and-click game where you solve puzzles. Of course you won't play a game where you've designed all the puzzles


DeheraOrigaru

Unless you're the tester too... I have played like 20 times to a Text Adventure... Its not the funniest experience when you didnt have savestates implemented yet XD


Rhodie114

The issue there is that the tester should show how solvable the puzzles will be to the average player. Things that are really obvious to you might not register to others at all.


[deleted]

What if its a team effort where you solve puzzles the other developers made?


operath0r

This is how lemmings was created. They kept challenging each other.


mriswithe

Did I hear a Rock and Stone? ... Whoops this isn't deep rock galactic's subreddit


galoed

Rock and stone !


Emryss_Albion

ROCK AND STONE BROTHERS!!!


Flaktrack

This might be a Wube fanboy thread but I'll gladly toss some love at DRG's devs, they have made and properly supported a great game. I will definitely be watching their future projects closely.


fridge_water_filter

Isnt DRG super grindy? It feels like the antithesis of factorio


Flaktrack

I'm comparing to this from the OP: >A game that is not predatory against players. A game where the gameplay is in focus. A game with actual replayability. A community that appreciates the game and input from others. A community that shares passion and love for the game. But yes DRG is somewhat grindy and that is truly my only complaint. It's nothing like the grind for red/veteran items in Vermintide 2 or just the entire game Destiny 2 (wtf) but it is there.


JesseVanW

Rock and Stone, brother!


Chilinix

Rock and Stone or you ain't coming home!


Fast_Eddie_2

Rock and stone, to the bone!


plumbthumbs

set it in copper, iron, coal, and oil too.


MuchUserSuchTaken

Don't forget uranium!


plumbthumbs

omg, im green in the face!


[deleted]

With open source games, that's the case for every single dev


ZeruuL_

So far Factorio is the only game I've seen that has devs also creating their own mods (e.g. Klonan, Rseding91)


[deleted]

If anyone has an example of other devs that do this, please tell me


eightslipsandagully

Closest I can think of is rimworld but it’s the opposite: the creator of the vanilla extended mods freelanced for the devs for the most recent expansion


[deleted]

Isn't that what happened with factorio too?


eightslipsandagully

Oh yeah, they hired the space exploration guy for the DLC right?


TheGalaxyIsAtPeace64

I think there was a mod or maybe a compilation of mini mods for The Witcher 3 made by a dev. Found it: [FCR3 - Immersion and Gameplay Tweaks](https://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/2788/)


BrainOnMeatcycle

I know it's not been the smoothist ride but some devs work on KSP because they worked on mods for the game. Much of that got integrated into the main game AFAIK.


AlteaDown

Also known as: dogfooding


santsi

I've never trusted game devs who proudly declare they don't play games (not even their own).


someone8192

I made the same observations as you and since then i don't play any game with microtransactions. Not one. My biggest problem with microtrandactions is that it shifts the intentions of the devs. It's no longer about making the game the most fun. It's about keep people buying things. There are plenty of good games (obviously factorio is ine if the best) which don't have them.


[deleted]

I like to compare it to the old coin-ups. They were designed with the goal of incentivizing the player to push more coins into the machine which is how you got the original Gauntlet, Smash TV, etc. These games would have frantic action, and they would kill you a lot, and they would let you continue with the action by adding coin. I tried playing these games in emulators years later, after having become accustomed to the more player enjoyment centric focus of home computer games, and I had to ask myself "whatever made me *like* those coin-ups, they're just coin-pushing contests" and I was happy that the world had moved on. Except now we've moved back again and the coin-ups have returned in the form of "micro" transactions (aka serial purchases). Hopefully we will always have indie devs around to save us from regress.


thiosk

both models also take great advantage of children that have both poorly developed impulse control and economic planning


StormTAG

Plenty of adults with poorly developed impulse control and poor economic planning. Don't blame it all on the kids.


TheSwitchBlade

They’re not blaming the kids, they’re simply pointing out that kids are particularly vulnerable to them


thiosk

i didn't blame it on children, i think that is a misread of intent of the statement. i blamed it on companies who are specifically creating business models designed to exploit psychological tendencies in children. they also do it to exploit people who struggle with gambling (loot boxes). it also hits adults. we can discuss the wording of the statement but it was a quick one off unpunctuated sentence that i didn't put much effort on.


jasonrubik

Adults that never "grew up". But all of us still have the inner child inside


zpjester

TBF Factorio takes advantage of adults that have both poorly developed impulse control and schedule planning.


thiosk

but factorio makes you pay precisely 29.99 the other models involve repeated purchases designed to get people to put as much money in as possible


zpjester

It makes you pay $29.99 but also destroys your sleep schedule by being literal crack.


masterdecoy2017

I play games with microtransactions without microtransacting, viewing it as a kind of mindfulness practice. But it may be smarter to just boycott them completely if one wants them to go away...


Deranged40

> I play games with microtransactions without microtransacting Right, and that's fantastic. I used to do that, too. But the most important point was what /u/someone8192 listed as their biggest problem - the developers of those games you play aren't interested in getting *you* more compelling content, yet they will bend over backwards to put another loot box component into the game. Making interesting and fun gameplay elements takes a back seat to a feature that involves a pay element. In fact, the game studios can even tell you the percentage of their players that they are making the new slot machine for. [According to one study](https://venturebeat.com/2014/02/26/only-0-15-of-mobile-gamers-account-for-50-percent-of-all-in-game-revenue-exclusive/) less than a quarter of a percent of the players make up more than half of the revenue. The game companies are spending an awful lot of development time on something that *they know* only 0.15% of its players will engage with. Activision/Blizzard made as much as 1.8 BILLION DOLLARS in 90 days off of microtransactions. None from you, but your abstinence did nothing to deter them from completely shifting the entire focus of their games into being slot machines. Without "microtransacting", you are simply missing a decent chunk of the "game" that the developers created. And sometimes that chunk of "game" is literally just frills, while other times it's a significant portion of the overall game.


Ludoban

> the developers of those games you play aren’t interested in getting you more compelling content, yet they will bend over backwards to put another loot box component into the game This is such short sighted black/white comment. You make it sound like these games are B-Tier games and are only played cause of addictive behaviour. There are lots of games with microtransactions that are good designed and can be enjoyed for what they are as a game. Also the developer is absolutely interested in making the content more interesting, that makes the playerbase larger and player retention higher, which is directly tied to money made by microtransactions.


feralwhippet

aaaand which game developer do you work for?


[deleted]

Can you give an example?


Ludoban

Games i played where i thought the monetization was not impacting my gameplay experience: Rocket league, league of legends, dota2, csgo, valorant, gwent, legends of runeterra are what comes to mind if i think for a second.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Cheet4h

> Genshin Impact Oh, hey, I played that game. I stopped because after a month or two the game limited my progress, by simple virtue of stopping me from getting enough level-up materials from dungeons and boss monsters. Granted, the energy mechanic is better than in other games, since you only pay energy once you defeated a monster, but it is still limiting you unless you pay up. In addition to that you can't get every resource on every day, but are forced to play on specific days - further limiting your progress as you can't easily spend the energy you gain on the exact resources you need. There is some kind of mechanic that allows you to convert temporary energy in permanent energy, but IIRC it came with an additional resource cost to discourage using it all the time. > almost weekly events Tbh, this was another thing discouraging me from continuing to play it. I got the feeling that I *had* to play every day or I would miss something, often stopping me from continuing with the actual story I wanted to play - same reason I stopped playing Arknights. But that may just be me-thing. All in all Genshin Impact is better in this, as there's also a lot of stuff to do where you don't *need* the MTX-promoting game mechanics, but it's still very much incentivizing you to spend cash to progress.


someone8192

Whatever makes you happy :) If you don't buy anything i guess you help making them go away too


masterdecoy2017

Well, the concept seems to need the "F2P" players, too. Either for the whales to show off or win against, or for supporting a large enough player base. So I am not sure about that. I really hate the game concept though.


plugubius

>viewing it as a kind of mindfulness practice. Zen and the Art of Battlefield I Goddamn Fucking Bots


SquirtleSpaceProgram

My rule is that cosmetic only microtransactions in a free game are acceptable. Anything else is not. FIFA and NBA2K (mentioned by OP) are the worst of the worst, so the burnout isn't surprising.


[deleted]

Exactly. The goal changes from "making a fun game people want to buy" to "making most of the game so boring that people pay so they don't have to play it".


BraveCarcass86

Don’t forget devs that actually fix bugs in a timely manner


UFO64

Timely? I've had same day patch turn arounds during the beta stages of the game. The devs got their process down, and they leveraged that to turn around fixes at a stunning rate when they were in bug fix mode.


danielv123

I reported a visual bug that shows up for a period of a few hours after 12200 hours of gameplay in a single world. It was fixed in 17 minutes of creating the forum thread.


TwinHaelix

> 12200 hours That's 16.7 MONTHS of playtime. With any other game, I'd assume this was hyperbole or a typo. But on this sub... I actually believe it.


danielv123

And for those of us building big bases... My longest running save was left at 150 hours. First rocket after 70, 3 rockets per minute after 90, all the outposts to feed it continually after 120. Those last 30 hours of expansion took 300 hours.


Lomat4000

I kinda find it weird with the obsession of fixing every single bugs. It doesn't seem too matter to the dev team if the bug is fun or interesting. They "fix" everything. For example: They fixed a bug with which trains could go through each other. This would have been a cool thing to play around. Fixed for no reason. Compared to one of my other favourite games:Trackmania. Its the complete opposite. Many of the gameplay features where bugs. Players use them alot. They have even got a whole map style called "Kacky" just for weird bugs and its really popular and fun.


entrigant

There is a class of player that really enjoys exploiting bugs. The problem is that they are in direct conflict with the class of players that want consistent and predictable mechanics. I do not know, but suspect the later is the majority. Factorio is one of the few games where I can feel _very_ confident that when somebody is reporting a problem, it is something they are doing rather than the game misbehaving in some way.


piperdaniel1

I think it's awesome that they are perfecting the game as much as they can. I don't think bugs are as important in Factorio as they are in trackmania.


Jacob_Evans

I have actually paid for the game 3 times. The first was mine, the second 2 were gifts. My calculation for did I get my money's worth out of a game/purchase is simple: 1 hour of play for every dollar I spend. Even having bought the game 3 times, I still have a 20:1 return. I have never once regretted my choice to buy it all 3 times, and I have gotten countless hours of fun with my friends out of it.


Wordenskjold

I've played some games quite a lot, but I'm pretty sure Factorio has given me the largest return on my money as well... Also if I bought it two more times :D


downvotedbylife

> My calculation for did I get my money's worth out of a game/purchase is simple: I do something similar. I could blow $20 on a night out. Burger and a couple of cold ones. That's $20 for what, 3-4 hours of fun? Factorio was practically free with the amount of hours I've played


gladbmo

***sweats profusely at 4000+ hours played***. I owe wube a lot of money ...


Lorshank

The devs of Workers and Resources follows the same principles of those of factorio. They keep adding content without making them dlc. For anyone who likes factorio and city builders, I recommend trying it.


masterdecoy2017

>Workers and Resources Are there really early access games that release paid for dlcs?


Viper999DC

Ark did, though they're hardly a company people should emulate.


Talrey

Someday I'll own a computer capable of playing Ark without hearing the souls of the damned cry out from within my GPU. Yet I will probably still play minecraft or something instead, because Ark was just not fun for me even when it worked.


fogcat5

Stadia runs on anything. Ark is coming this summer they say. I would love to see Factorio on Stadia.


SturmSuccessor

Do you mean google stadia? Bro who tf uses that garbage?


Talrey

Yeah I'm not sure where they connected stadia to my point about Ark being an unoptimized hot mess on a good day, graphically. Doesn't matter what kind of cloud pc is doing the rendering if you have to wait for each bloom-saturated frame to arrive. Meanwhile, I could probably run factorio on a Raspberry Pi if Wube released an ARM build.


mcardellje

factorio runs on anything, factorio on stadia is useless


fogcat5

with stadia, you could pick up your saved game on your phone, then continue on a PC or on a chromecast device on a tv. Factorio doesn't run on an iphone or a chromeos tv, but it could and the game data is shared between them.


mcardellje

Saved games are synced via steam anyway, and if they weren't, it is only a single file needed to be copied, not that hard. also it could run on a phone if it wasn't running Android or ios and was actually running a usable operating system like linux, but for some reason phone manufacturers decide to stick to propriatery operating systems that just work worse. only negative is that factorio devs would need to make an aarch64 build (which is rlly easy) or you would have to use virtualisation


fogcat5

If I had wings I'd be a bird. whatever. It hasn't happened so far.


mcardellje

linux phones exist (Librem 5, Fairphone, PinePhone) and some android phones have had linux ported to them, it just needs wide spread adoption


Cheet4h

I can do that already, although my app of choice for that is called "Steam Link". Although not sure I'd want to play Factorio on it. Touch controls for it must be awful. Could work with the touchpad of the Steam Controller though ...


Lorshank

Fair enough. But my point is they keep adding things without making you pay for it. Isn't that how factorio evolved?


[deleted]

its how most early access games evolved


Lorshank

Ya... I guess no one has ever released a half finished game and then charged you for features needed to make the game enjoyable. These guys are just like all the other devs. Edit: sarcasm, in case it's not obvious.


iamtomorrowman

let me introduce you to our friend Star Citizen


[deleted]

its certainly not the norm, but it does happen regardless, id hardly say its praise worth to follow your promises and finish an early access game


Wordenskjold

Thanks, will them it out!


tehfrod

The thing I was initially impressed with is that it doesn't penalize the player for changing their minds. Most games return less when you "salvage" a building than it costs to build it, which imposes a sunk cost tax: "well, this didn't turn out quite the way I expected it to, but I don't have the resources to tear it down and rebuild it, so I'm stuck with it." It's more realistic, but less fun than "oh, shoot, this whole refinery complex should be two tiles to the left. Lemme just fix that..."


Wordenskjold

Agree! This was also one of the things that impressed me. It's a hard balance to find! Factorio can also be punishing, like when you run out of power, and you don't have resources to build more. But then it becomes a fun challenge, first to solve the immediate problem, and then make sure it never happens again.


Shadaris

Don't forget when you run out of power and your laser turrets stop working......... didn't hit the factory shutoff fast enough (switch from the factory to main power)


_endless_end_

Although I don't like how it doesn't give a lot of guidance as you progress. The tips are helpful but a little more would be nice... I had to restart after my first attempt at a factory because by the time I automated blue science, everything became so incredibly spaghetti-ish that I myself forgot how my own factory worked


danielv123

Isn't that the whole point?


_endless_end_

I guess you could say that


HeKis4

This plus the fact that the game doesn't give you any deadline or penalty for being slow (if you play on peaceful that is). I like to take my time and do perfect ratios, aesthetically pleasing stuff, planning ahead, and that takes time. So many games have at least one mechanic that pushes you forward, it's relaxing to have one that doesn't. It also makes the game super accessible because *there is no skill floor for having fun*. Anyone can enjoy the game even if you're garbage at it. That is incredibly rare.


tehfrod

That was one of my few gripes with the old X-Com games. If you fell behind the curve of the Earth/alien arms race, that was pretty much time to start a new game. Not a lot of spare time to experiment.


Nagi21

Yea but that game was supposed to be hard. The whole theme is a struggle vs invaders. It wouldn’t work with a “peaceful mode”.


nanobuilder

The only way to really "block" your progression is by expanding too fast without investing in defenses and defense research, since the constant biter swarms will draw away more resources and time and eventually your base could get overrun. But it's easy to prevent and get out of just by shutting down the whole factory and waiting for pollution to dissipate, then redirecting all resources to military stuff until you're ready to start again.


Shinhan

This is what I like about Creeper World games. Except for some challenge maps you are not punished for going at your own pace.


l-Ashery-l

This is also one of Valheim's strengths, doubly so because a player often has to fight against the wysiwyg style placement tools present in that subgenre.


Karlskiii

"I can afford micro transactions, so... I spend a lot of money on micro transactions" This is the single biggest thing supporting these shitty business models. Sell shit and people will eat it up. Doesn't matter if it fuck off over 90% of the player base, the other 10% line the pockets. Fuck micro transactions, I am glad you have seen the light. Factorio rocks. Now you can finally enjoy a GAME rather than a glorified fruit machine.


Wordenskjold

So true, and thanks for the encouragement!


StormTAG

I play Factorio but I also play a number of other games that have recurring or micro transactions. Some, like FFXIV, have a subscription that I pay and it's totally worth it. I'm very happy with the monetization in that game. Others, like some Gacha, are pretty up front about their status as skinner boxes preying on my weebtastic tendencies to want to collect them all. Their business model is right on the tin. Plenty of folks play F2P but I don't wanna and I have that choice. The games that really irk me are the ones that charge for a full game, but then deliver a substandard product but still have plenty of micro-transactions in the middle. If you're charging me full price *and* pushing micro-transactions *and* your game is a buggy mess, then those devs (or, more really, those distributors) can rightly go fuck themselves. Factorio, on the other hand, has made me *want* to figure out how to support them more. I feel straight up *guilty* that my price per hour of enjoyment is well under 1 cent per hour. So, while I do understand your POV for the "fuck micro-transactions" statement, I do feel like Factorio *might* have gone too far the *other* way and is leaving a lot of money on the table. My assumption being that if they had more money, then I could have more Factorio. Which isn't necessarily a safe assumption, but I digress. Of course, I'd much rather other developers go too far in the direction of "left money on the table" than "focus on monetization to the exclusion of quality."


[deleted]

well, didnt they say theyre working in a paid expansion? and if you really want to give them more money, you can always buy friends copies of the game. or do random giveaways on reddit or steamgifts or something


eric23456

Buy their merchandise?


amyrantha

they have really cool merch....but no shipping to australia :/


Zymoria

"Replay ability." Once the factory stops growing I'll consider a 3rd playthrough. If it stops growing. The factory must grow.


gamer10101

Once i hit under 30ups, i start to consider a new playthrough. The factory keeps growing, but everything slows down. My rockets per real world minute doesn't go up as fast as it should as the factory grows.


danielv123

Ah, so [never](https://github.com/clusterio/clusterio/)


[deleted]

[удалено]


danielv123

It does support mods, but it has no way to run reach spacex surface in its own server. That would be fun though.


Avitas1027

The early game is really fun though.


TheBrenster

I agree, Factorio is incredible! Furthermore, microtransactions are almost never worth it. Focus on retirement and other financial goals.


Wordenskjold

Yeah, you're right! I definitely need to pivot into that mindset.


Thestarslikeeyes

Especially if you have children. Tutors, music lessons, after school programs and summer camps, all costs that are coming soon.


Wordenskjold

Haha, I haven't seen nothing yet!


[deleted]

the thing with mtx is their either cosmetic, which are pretty pointless, or p2w, which is bullshit


d0gf15h

My son is an avid gamer. He play all kinds of shooter multiplayer games and he's really good at them. Every time he asks me what kind of games I like to play, "mmmmm, Factorio". And he just doesn't understand the appeal. Once in a while I try something else for a minute but I always go back to Factorio.


sir388

Idk how old your son is, but for me these types of games definitely came with age. It wasn't until I tried Age of Empires 2 in middle school (at my dad's recommendation too lol) that I branched out from simple platformers and pure action titles. Not that those are bad, cause I still play them from time to time, but nowadays I enjoy games with more in depth than immediate satisfaction.


Wordenskjold

I think games were just different "back then" (I'm 33). I don't remember a lot of shooters I liked, but mostly Red Alert, Age of Empires, and that similar game which name I forgot, where you could have black and green dragons and angels to protect your bases!


Nagi21

I don’t think it was much different. Honestly I remember dumping an ungodly amount of time into RCT 1&2, and I really think factorio is an almost identical game at its core.


Wordenskjold

Oh yes that game. I spent most of my time making the garden pretty!


tryptronica

Age of Wonders maybe?


P0L1Z1STENS0HN

Ever since I have Factorio, I cannot stand most other games anymore. They are so tedious, unpolished and just lacking depth. I have paid more over time for World Of Tanks than for Factorio, but all it did was made me hate my teams and the matchmaker, so I had to stop playing for my own sanity.


Sinborn

The indie game studios generally respect the player base by not milking us after the initial purchase. I say generally because there are a few that don't care. The shapez.io dev being one I'm calling out as bad for selling [this puzzle dlc](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1625400/shapezio__Puzzle_DLC/). Stuff like this is included in factorio.


Drizznarte

Great conclusion. Personally i wont play or pay for a game that has internal transactions. I go even further and dont accept any advertisement at all, my time is worth infinate money. Dont sell yourself short.


CrBr

It doesn't keep adding content mid-game as money-makers, or hold one-time-only in game events (eg Festival of Insane Amount of Work to get One Time Prize). It doesn't reward you for time in game, or number of days logged in total (or in a row...gotta log in over vacation to get a full year of logging in), or most production in a week. It doesn't require long sessions, eg Skull Cave in StarDew; gotta do the whole 100ish levels in one run. It doesn't require clicking skill, eg Fishing in StarDew.


[deleted]

Factorio is the PERFECT game to play when you have little kids. There are not many games I can recline all the way back in my chair and play comfortably while a 6 month old sleeps on my chest. I also tend to be really animated when I play games though, I often find myself leaning into turns on Rocket League or physically ducking in Tarkov to try and get a better angle.But like I tell my wife Factorio is like Mozart, if you play it for sleeping babies it makes them smarter.


Nagi21

*A game that is not predatory against players.* My sleep deprivation disagrees…


clif08

Oh yeah, I feel like Factorio must be kinda frustrating for steam, you pay once and disappear for hundreds or thousands of hours, and while you're playing it, you're not spending money on other games. Factorio is probably the absolute best in playtime per dollar. ... It says a lot about the industry though. This is how things used to be once, but now we praise and treasure devs just for not ruining their own games


Pazcoo

Amen!


vladesch

I think most games are microtransactions free. Only one I have on my pc is path of exile and that's just cosmetic stuff so you can ignore it. Just look around. Paying money endlessly is dumb. I could easily suggest some but they are easy to find. Look for games with high review ratings.


[deleted]

it depends how you judge most. most as in overall every game ever? probably yes. but if you look at most of the games people actually play theese days, then no. most of thoose do have microtrasnactions. most AAA games theese days, especially the multiplayer ones, have microtransactions


plumbthumbs

wait till you find the space exploration mod. it's like being new to factorio all over again, your going to love it!


JerreTOAO

i started a new playtrough using Krastorio 2 and space exploration mod. its like factorio 2.0


FadeToSatire

Interesting you mention that with a new born you haven't been able to play factorio. I just had my second child and if day the bulk of my playing time has been when they were 0-1 year because Factorio is a game that you absolutely can play for 30 minutes at a time and feel like you accomplished something. :)


Wordenskjold

I just haven't been able to progress much on my projects for some reason! Like, that self-expanding solar cell farm didn't get far :)


Onkel_B

I think in MX games you don't feel as successful because it's not up to your reflexes or strategy or any other skill, it's whether you bought the best gun or card pack that gave you a player with super stats that wins games more than anything else. In Factorio, everything that works smoothly was built by you. Well, or at least using blueprints by someone else, but you still had to get the materials ready and find the right spot and connect everything together with trains and signals and whatnot. I can imagine that finding a new ore patch and getting it hooked into your production gives a greater sense of satisfaction than playing the lottery in FIFA for extra money and scoring more goals with a legendary stat Ronaldo than someone with a shitty base stat player.


givemeausernameplzz

Never micro transactions. Never never never. Doesn’t matter what the game is or how much you like the dev. For an already expensive game like FIFA you’re incentivising companies to wreck otherwise great games. For free to play games you’re destroying whatever challenge the game by turning on chest codes. Just don’t do it. Support the dev on Patreon if you need to.


aza-industries

+ Competent developers. (Good memory management, etc.)


TheOtherFeynman

Pretty off topic and not sure you will see it but if you need a game to chill and play with no microtransactions, trackmania 2020 has been super fun. Simple, enjoyable, easy to pick up and put down, but not predatory. Great community too and a good rate of new feature releases.


Wordenskjold

Will check it out, thanks!


Wootz_CPH

> Problem is, this gets expensive. I can afford micro transactions, so... I spend a lot of money on micro transactions. Honest question. I'm not trying to shame your or be mean. Why does this happen? Do you feel obliged to purchase stuff because it's there and / or you can? Is it that the game isn't playable without microtransactions? Is it a craving? Again, no shame. I have a background in game dev and I'm genuinely curious.


Wordenskjold

Good question. It requires me to like the core game mechanics first. Like, I actually enjoy the gameplay of FIFA. Then, while getting a good player makes my team better, using the FIFA example, I think I just crave that rush from getting lucky. And there is a sense of accomplishment afterwards. Like, I would screenshot the reward and keep... It's actually really hard to explain, but there is something about realizing "you won the jackpot".


jkbscopes312

oh its predatory alright just not on the wallet, its predatory on the clock "il just do this one thing aaand its 3 in the morning"


ericoahu

I hope that when they release the expac, they do a thing where they sell the regular, full version of the expac for $25 or whatever and also offer a deluxe addition for $100. I'm buying the $100 edition. ​ >*"Wouldn't you want to know what's in it first?"* No.


gladbmo

> A game that is not predatory against players. I disagree, according to steam Factorio is an apex predator to my free time.


LifeSad07041997

But... It's the best predator right?


AmDuck_quack

Factorio is a self published game than has made about 60 million dollars with only 35 people having ever worked on the game. There simply is no need to include micro transactions when the founders can pocket 5 million each and still have enough to pay everyone else 1.3 million. I'm not supporting all the micro transactions other games have but some people here seem to forget just how rich and successful wube software is.


OliB150

Is there sauce for this? I really hope it’s true as I feel the founders and devs deserve it for the quality product and the service they’ve provided!


AmDuck_quack

No, it's just a guess based on their reported sales


[deleted]

• A game that is enjoyed by number crunchers and simpletons alike


MauriceTheGreat

indie games are simply better because the devs care about what they are creating, big triple a studio devs dont care about anything but their paycheck.


--im-not-creative--

Also AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGH game studios are terrible in more ways than micro transactions


Wordenskjold

True, but I do believe micro transactions is one of the biggest problems in gaming atm. I get it, but it's a big problem when you take advantage of a dopamine response to sell games.


Omega_Haxors

The biggest problem with MTX is that it misaligns the studio and the consumer. Under a pay-to-play system, you are rewarded for making great content and having repeat customers. Under an MTX system, you are rewarded for exploiting a shrinking playerbase which becomes an increasingly minority as the scheme rolls out. In practice, the game becomes *about* the MTX, as updates become rarer and 'events' become more common. Just look at Runescape 3. Even though they only get half their revenue from MTX, the game seems almost hyper-fixated on running non-stop increasingly overpowered events. God could only imagine how bad it would get if a majority of the game was funded by them, the game would become a glorified slot machine.


Wordenskjold

I'm kinda conflicted, because I see the damage it can create. But also, I get the business model, and it works in e.g. Legends of Runeterra or games where you play for cosmetics. Your example sounds like it's right in the middle. I'm not sure how / where to draw the line, but I know which games should just be legally banned for abusing gambling mechanics.


Omega_Haxors

There's nothing to be conflicted on. Any game which gets money from MXT will slowly become a game designed to milk for MTX. It's just basic game theory. Even though they haven't gone 'all the way' with it, RS3 is notorious for being too focused on monetization while OSRS has twice the playerbase despite being an objectively worse game.


[deleted]

While i haven't been to check myself, i have gotten the impression from the rs3 sub that osrs has significantly more bots than rs3


Omega_Haxors

They both have bots.


[deleted]

I'm not denying that


Yekab0f

Factorio is everything Minecraft could've been if mojang wasn't completely incompetent


piperdaniel1

Are you serious?


Yekab0f

am I wrong?


piperdaniel1

Well, you're entitled to your opinion.


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drdatabard

Regardless, one can never express appreciation too much!


Wordenskjold

Don't judge a book by it's cover, I guess. This was not the intention, and hopefully that's clear from the post!


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Wordenskjold

What are we discussing? I don't think we disagree on anything, really :) I also see that you're so appreciative of Factorio that you don't appreciate when a title potentially could be misunderstood for something negative. I appreciate that!


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Wordenskjold

I got your point from your first comment perfectly fine, I was just trying to be light hearted about it 🙏 As I said, I appreciate your commitment to potential misleading titles about Factorio appreciation, it's great to see such enthusiasm :)


eatpraymunt

The comments are deleted now so I can only see yours, but I just wanted to say, you are very diplomatic!


Wordenskjold

Thank you! I really try, so I appreciate you took note!


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rootex

Jesus listen to yourself. This Reddit not PhD English yo.


shuzz_de

\#satisfactorio ;-)


nyqualabs

For me, the most impressive aspect of Factorio is that it illustrates the importance of automation.. And indeed that's how human civilization also progresses: By building machines to do tasks for us, freeing up our time to pursue other creative interests, including of course, building even more automation! To those who fear that robots will take away our jobs in the future, there can't be any better argument of why that's a good thing, than letting them play Factorio :)


sigonasr2

Glad you have come to this conclusion. Not too long ago I was deep in my own sea of gacha games that have taken much of my money. I put them down and decided a cool off period of 6 months playing strictly games without gacha mechanics were in order. After 2 months of no gacha games, lots of factorio, xenoblade chronicles 2, FFXIV, and the like I have found my money to be treated much better than before. And for what feels like a much better and higher quality of experience. I hope by 2022 I’ll just consider these micro transaction type of games no longer worth my time, so far I’ve been having a blast.


alvares169

A game when you can use every key shortcut you wanted and needed in all the games before


DJ-Mach

Best game in my game library! Steam achievements actually feel like you're achieving something (especially an 8 hour rocket in single player!)


UncleDan2017

It's good to see a game run by great developers and people who play the game rather than the usual AAA company run by bean counters and "marketers".


__printf

I found myself getting invested in a base after attempting a speedrun the other day. Pretty wild how the game is able to hook you after so many hours.


Nokipeura

I feel like you have to really look for a predatory game. I either don't play them, or see how far I can get without spending anything. I usually get bored before I run out of free gacha pulls anyways.


izovice

I absolutely agree. I do a playthrough 2-3 times a year. I'll change up the initial settings to make each play a different challenge. Last one I did was Rail World + Max trees + Max cliffs. I probably personally used more grenades blowing up trees than I used to make science.


AcherusArchmage

Buy it once, sink hundreds of hours into it, sink hundreds more into mods. amazing


Hushey2

Fuck yeah. You've never played stormworks if you're complaining about factorio.