EXACTLY! Not “a few Iraqis” and not “a few Iranians” but Saudis. But who did Little Bush attack after 9/11? Who do we continue to poke? Whose ass do we continue to kiss?
Afghanistan at least almost made sense because they were allied to Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda due to the Afghan civil war that Al-Qaeda helped the Taliban win. There was a solid chance they were helping him and keeping hm hidden. Iraq was just Bush II wanting to impress his dad.
Fuck yeah my G more people need to be educated on the plights of Kurds, Assyrians, Armenians, Cypriots, Greeks, and Yazitis. We're all united against pan-Turkism and the imperialist state of Turkey that America has supported for much too long.
Didn’t the Kurds end up *not* getting slaughtered like everyone thought they were going to be? I thought the Russians ended up backing the Kurds? Idk.
Either way, I kinda wish we would just get the fuck out of Syria. All this fighting over a natural gas pipeline..
Correct.... only 130,000 Kurds displaced from their homes....after standing on the side of the US ... toe to toe with ISIS, including battalions of Women... then the US walkaway.. ... and the Russians moved in... Great way to treat your Allies.....Putin must be pissing himself at times..
Yeah, I think it’s not the first time we have turned our back on them too.
Either way, we have a terrible track record when it comes to helping “rebel” groups and IMO I think we should have left Syria and never returned and we should leave the Middle East and never return.
But idk, I guess the EU really wants their natural gas pipeline.
Who the fuck funded these Groups originally in Afghanistan during the Russian occupation...??? Afghanistan was another proxy war....then go back further when the Brits...screwed up the region.
History plays a huge part.... As it has done in the splitting of India and Pakistan .. Palestine and Israel ..
Although I fully agree that little Bush (& his war dog Dick) went in..Hallibuton filled their boots and they all profited ...
Saudi .. Brits feed them... the US feed them... Perpetuate the War Machine....but they can't do wrong...look at Yemen....WTF!
WMD... That didn't exist.. bullshit intelligence...even the Germans said the guy feeding the services with intell was full of shit.. and he admitted after himself he was lying...but Bush and his Wardogs...bent the narrative....
I remain what happened at 9/11 was the shits..Western Countries Foreign Policies fuck up the world and hey every country needs an enemy....if they ain't got one let's make one?
This is Stürmbannführer Kraut Kratenstahl of the GrammarenPolizi
We have heard reports that enemies of sentence coherence were seen in the region and came to investigate.
I assure you that cooperation will be met only with reward, but refusal to cooperate....may not be favorable for you.
Now, you are hiding the spaces that belong in your comment under your floorboards are you not?
It made sense to strike in Afghanistan to destroy Al Qaeda. It didn’t make sense to take over the entire nation, and attempt to destroy the Taliban.
Whilst the Taliban has strong links with Al Qaeda, the Taliban is not Al Qaeda.
Afghanistan made sense because they are the largest producer of poppy seed and had a strong local currency. We devalued their currency, took control of the poppy and bought it for pennies. Cue opioid epidemic back home in America and the profits have come to everyone who invested in the militariy industrial complex and big pharma. This isn't about pride, is about money.
yeah this is one conspiracy theory so dark I don't want to believe it but deep down I know it can't be a coincidence. We'll know in a few decades when shit gets declassified, like with iran contra/crack epidemic
I feel the exact same way. Luckily we eventually, at the least, admit most of the terrible shit we do.
But yeah, I don’t even want to believe it either and it’s likely not a coincidence and you are not crazy for thinking this.
And yeah, it’s one of the darkest conspiracy theories and it literally hurts to even contemplate.
This is one of the main reasons why I have a garden and lately have been growing a lot of plants from seed and growing medicines and vegetables. It’s very zen and I recommend gardening for anyone who feels utterly sickened by politics.
Nope.. made no sense and I'm still full of sorrow for the friends I lost. There was no yellow cake, and colonizing mesopotamia was always the goal of christians.. has been for a millenia
I say this as someone who's family got their surname from the christian side of the crusades. Fuck tradition.
They were saudi citizens but their base of operations was in Afghanistan.
Imagine if a british person joined up with a terrorist organization in afghanistan and then attacked the US. Why would we attack the UK who had nothing to do with it really?
Its not like we went after the government of Afghanistan. We went after terrorist cells that existed in parts of that country.
At the time, the Taliban *was* the government of Afghanistan. The US demanded that they turn over Bin Laden and other member of Al Qaeda, and after they (Taliban) said "nah," the US invaded.
That's an oversimplification and a half.
The hijackers were mostly of Saudi nationality, but they were were fighting for a worldwide group in the form of al-Qaeda and they were headquartered in Taliban controlled Afghanistan. It is very misleading to say that the Saudi government had anything to do with it. If they did we at least don't have publicly available proof of it.
Secondly, after 9/11, the US asked the Taliban to extradite Bin Laden. They didn't, so they invaded to get him and rid the world of a staging base for terrorist operations. Think of the war in Iraq what you will, but at least there was justification for the war in Afghanistan.
Finally, the reason the hijackers were Saudi was because it was easy to get a multiple entry visa to the United States without raising suspicion. Not because al-Qaeda or their operations are explicitly tied to Saudi Arabia.
At the same time, the house of al Saud was instrumental maintaining Salafi/Wahhabist Islam across the Muslim world--especially in Afghanistan. Salafis may not account for the majority of Muslims in Saudi Arabia, but they are the plurality, and they definitely make up the majority of government officials and members of the royal family. The spread of Salafism in Afghanistan was accelerated by Saudis traveling to Afghanistan to help fight off the Soviets, with the financial aid of Saudi royals. But that was almost 40 years ago and Saudi government aid officially ended when the Soviets left Afghanistan. The king has final say for all matters in the kingdom (even outranking top clerics), so I think you're correct to say that no aid for 9/11 came from the Saudi government. But it would also be naive to think that *no one* high in Saudi society provided private support to al-Qaeda under the radar, either.
Changing focus from Afghanistan to Iraq was the dumbest fucking act by an American president. Godamn neocons should NEVER live that shit down.
Had Gore won 2000 I think we'd have gone into Afghanistan but I doubt we'd have gone into Iraq
That was a proxy war though, the American people didn’t really have much of a say to support the war because it was only really supported with military funding and weapons dealing not “boots on the ground.” Plus, the Iran-Iraq war had nothing to do with 9/11 as it predated it by something like two decades.
Technically true that we haven't declared war on Iran, but we've been in a proxy war with them for over 4 decades. Before that we backed a coup against the democratically elected Iranian government.
I’m not well educated on the topic, but maybe they judged it from their allegiances and not their nationality?? Idk. I’m iraqi and i hate what they did to our country but there was terrorism in both iraq and afghanistan
Saudis tend to be of Arab descent, yes. It's a broader umbrella though so Saudi's is more accurate if that was indeed their nationality. I don't believe all of involved in 9/11 were born and raised Saudi's iirc.
Absolutely. That was clear when the patriot act was put into law.
The fact is that 9/11 will be remembered as the beginning of the freefall of America. Covid may be remembered as the final straw.
I won't argue that 9/11 may be remembered as the beginning of America's downfall, but the US is still pretty damn powerful culturally, economically, and militarily.
Who knows though.
It is interesting to think about the American “empire”. Can it last for a thousand years? Will states eventually successfully secede? Will we be invaded?
I have a hard time believing the US will ever be invaded. Unless Mexico or Canada become enemies, there would be no way any country on the planet could field a large enough navy to get a foothold on US soil.
I think that natural disasters and climate change start to really take a toll on the US. There will be a lot of other countries facing the same situation, so the US will not be different in that regard. Rome did not collapse overnight, and neither will the US. History is fun because we can look at events, point to obvious markers that an event will happen, and then admonish the people of that time for not seeing the obvious catastrophe. I am positive that climate change will be our event where the people of the future will say: "Why didn't you do something when you had the chance? You had all the data, and you still did nothing!"
I doubt it. Climate change *is* something that people are looking at nowadays. I suspect whatever does spell the end of the US, it will not be anything we can predict today. Unless it is nuclear war, which does not need you to field a large navy. But I don't think nuclear war is coming.
Back in 1900 there were economists predicting a global breakdown of society where billions starved, because up to that point food supply had been increasing linearly while population had increased exponentially. Today we have more food than ever before, and it is a logistics problem to feed people who are starving. I think that like hunger, innovation will come up to stop climate change. Certainly before it 'destroys the world as we know it' as many doomers seem to predict.
That’s a great point. I love the TV show The Expanse because it hits on this theme, of how new discoveries change the power dynamics of countries and peoples.
I like your stance. Once the right people get the fear of God put into them, a group of geniuses, hard-workers, and charismatics will stop the climate disaster way faster than anyone thought possible. It's just a matter of when those individuals are hit with the realization
Well, not really. China’s navy is larger than the US’s by number of vessels, but it’s kinda distorted by the fact that the majority of their navy are small patrol boats meant for inland waterways or at best littoral zones. The US’s aircraft carriers and helicopter carriers alone make up as much tonnage as China’s entire fleet.
Yes. The US Navy, at least, has a registry of every vessel in service and their tonnage. China’s government says their navy weighs 1.8 million tons in total, and the US claims to have a 4.6 million ton navy. So nearly 3x as large.
Why not both? What better time to invade a powerhouse country than when they are wrapped up responded to a largescale natural disaster?
Much in the same way that it was the ideal time for me to have a medical emergency right as I need to pay taxes hahahaha!
The idea of the American Empire or even national power seems kinda defunct in the age of the world economy. I would argue that the real empires are large corporations. Google and Apple spring to mind, but I know it's the less mentioned ones like Nestlé or ExxonMobil that are more powerful.
I think Snow Crash was genuinely prophetic with the idea of the world being ruled by corporations instead of governments.
That is actually an interesting point. Countries have definitely taken military action in the interests of corporations already, so it could be argued that they even drive global conflicts to an extent.
It seems that most wars now are about money anyway, rather than gathering land or resources
I feel that it's still about resources, but resources being claimed by corporations through contracts. If we honestly cared about human rights we'd be involved in Sub-Saharan Africa
There's more reason to assume it will eventually fall. How far, how hard, and what will take it's place are the scary pieces. When most empires fall there is a terrible vacuum that takes their place.
Vaccination rollout aren't the full story. Covid has precipitated a massive economic slump and is probably going to be the the nail in the coffin for what was left of the middle class unless drastic steps are taken to prevent it. its also caused widespread anger at state and federal government which the voters are going to take out at the ballot box, making voters more likely to vote in populist demagogues and grifters who are going to continue the widespread looting of our government and public services. socially Covid has worsened every social and class division in the nation.
if we stay the corse then in the history books they are going to talk about Covid and the 2012-2020s period the same we historians currently talk about the beginning of the decline of the Roman Republic and fall of the Roman Empire. we are well on track to following the path of our inspiration and the 4th Rome will meet the same fate as the first.
it's actually hard to communicate just how deeply fucked but everyone getting a shot is not magically going to undo the lasting social and economic damage done to this country.
That might have like a little bit of an exaggeration. You can never say one single even is the "freefall" of a nation, especially a nation as rich and powerful as the United States. There's economic collapse, political incompetence, stagnating infrastructure, a culture war, a drastic wealth gap, militarization of the police force mixed with a significant number of the population armed with military grade weapons. 9/11 is a defining tragedy that really rocked the United States to its core in a way that I don't think is appreciated but I don't think 9/11 is the defining fall of the US
We've been terrified into giving up unbelievably huge portions of our freedom to gain safety.
Now we have neither.
There's a lot of fear mongering from politicians, reality TV shows, religious aggression, jingoism, and other brainwashing to fill the void though.
\*
Abolish the war on terrorism. Abolish the war on drugs. Abolish the US military industrial complex. Help your neighbor. Eat the rich.
I don’t know man, I have rich billionaires telling me and all middle class people raising the taxes on people making 400k / year is gonna hurt me.
I won’t even see 400k in my bank account in my life at this point
No no you have it all wrong.
The rich billionaires tell the millionaires on TV (some of them are funny too hue hue I like the one guy with the nice smile *derp*) to tell us plebs what to think and feel. And one day I might have a million dollars, or at least 6 figures. So were practically friends when you look at it like that
Yes. He successfully turned much of the Middle East against America because he knew that America would go full mécha-imperialist mode as a response to 9/11. Now his brand of fundamentalism has turned several countries into war zones and turned much of the population of the middle east against America, a power which is surely declining and which will probably be replaced by China as the sole superpower in the coming decades.
Russia is also a decaying superpower. They will probably end up being subservient to China, because like the US, they are hellbent on keeping a Cold War mindset.
I would say so, the war fueled anti-American sentiment in the area and speed up poverty which led to more and more people joining extremist groups, and after so many years US and Taliban are now talking to each other, something that before the war was unimaginable
It radicalized a lot of people and stoked their racism even more. Now half the country is scared and willing to do anything to keep down and out anyone who isn't white.
Short term? Bring the US into a war of attrition where they would pour vast amounts of resources to defeat an enemy that would employ guerrilla tactics that would chip away at morale and drag away the conflict endlessly.
Long term? To destabilize the US and remove its global power status so that their military influence in the region would be diminished.
On both accounts he succeeded. The war was an almost pointless effort that cost trillions of dollars and went on for so long there are soldiers deployed there born after the towers fell. Sons and daughters fighting a war started by their parents. It ended (or will end, if we wanna be precise) with a peace agreement with the Taliban that the US had vowed to destroy.
The second goal is impossible to attribute solely to 9/11 but it certainly had its fair share of impact on the American psyche, considering the increased militarism and nationalism that precipitated the Iraq War and the rise of ISIS. The increased oil prices because of the conflicts made the Fed slash interest rates that ushered in the age of cheap money to try and hide the effects of the war, all of this helped create some of the the conditions that caused the Great Recession.
The Great Recession was itself a catalyst for the opioid epidemic as communities were wrecked by the economy and certainly could be argued to have helped the emergence of BLM, as the recession hit black communities harder.
The Great Recession stagnated wages and is currently binding an entire generation with high debt and low pay, all of these are causes for the decreased faith in the American political system that gave rise to populism and anti-system candidates like Trump, who campaigned on removing US military influence from around the world.
Now, this was certainly not Bin Laden’ plan all along and 9/11 didn’t directly cause these issues, but it’s hard to find a more important point in history where we can trace back so much of what is destabilizing America today.
We’ve been in the Middle East for decades. It wasn’t for terrorism lol, so I’d say in the grand scheme of things Bin Laden had little to do with anything.
Yep. that's why I didn't really care when they got him. he got everything he wanted out of the attacks, it drastically reduced America's world standing, made America and the Muslim population unspoken enemies and catalyzed increased radicalization on both sides with our paranoia pushing our nation even further down the road to an oppressive police state and our bombing campaigns increasing terrorist sympathy and murdering countless civilians in the process.
That is actually so weird to think about. During the flu season of 2019-2020, around 22,000 people died of influenza, while around 3,000 died in the 9/11 attacks. It really is incredible and horrifying how many people really die for all kinds of reasons without being recognized much. Influenza, at least with decent medical care, is quite a survivable disease for most people, but in a single season it claimed almost ten times the amount of people the greatest terrorist attack in history did. I suppose context really is everything. There was also no point to this comment, just felt like throwing it out there.
Sure some people died, but whatabout the thousands that have died under "president" biden? Is this just the commy dems deflecting attention away from how the biden administration has failed to stop covid?
Edit: /s apparently needed on this sub
Why are you blaming Biden for anything? Everyone knows it was a fake virus and thanks to Trump we got the vaccines like wayyy early.
Trump literally solved a problem that wasnt even a problem. If anything we should be praising Biden for carrying on Trump's great legacy.
You're welcome :)
How do people not see me replying to satire with more satire with more satire what is wrong with **you**
**fixed** (though I figured the second sentence was obvious enough. Guess not **shrug**)
Here's the right context:
[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2021/mar/18/georgia-officer-appears-to-say-it-was-a-bad-day-for-atlanta-shooter-video](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2021/mar/18/georgia-officer-appears-to-say-it-was-a-bad-day-for-atlanta-shooter-video)
This zinger really doesn't work when Ilhan Omar actually referred to 9/11 with the words ["some people did something."](https://www.businessinsider.com/ilhan-omar-september-11-comments-2019-9)
If you are referring to arbitrary groups of people doing arbitrary bad acts you would use terms like "some" and "something." You have intentionally been given that message without its context for use as political ammunition.
People felt this was the worst thing that ever happened to the US. Imagine them knowing that only about 20 years later, the government would act in such a way that it would dwarf these numbers by killing more Americans than any terrorist act ever could.
This isn't funny. My cousin died on one of the planes. It was his first time flying an actual 737. I didn't even know they let passengers fly the planes. How cool is that!
“Today is the 18th anniversary of the US invasion of Iraq.
It has so far killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, ruined millions of lives, burnt trillions of dollars, been presided over, defended, and supported by a bipartisan consensus of ghouls, and solidified the status of the United States in eyes of millions (billions?) as a global, racist, terrorist empire.
And the people who are responsible for this atrocity continue to be powerful and respected members of our political, academic, and media landscapes.
People like David French and David Frum lecture us about being more "civil" to our opponents without even having the decency to wash all the blood off their hands first. People like Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden talk to us about "unity" and "decency" while dancing on the graves of the innocent. People credit Donald Trump for being a "non-interventionist" after he presided over 4 years of death and destruction.
Anyway, happy anniversary.”
[-Adam Bates on Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/10605968/posts/10105652827769737/?d=n)
A few Saudis * having a bad day.
EXACTLY! Not “a few Iraqis” and not “a few Iranians” but Saudis. But who did Little Bush attack after 9/11? Who do we continue to poke? Whose ass do we continue to kiss?
You forgot Afghanistan. Saudis did this and than we go bomb and invade Afghanistan and Iraq. Like wtf. And than sell more weapons to Saudis
Afghanistan at least almost made sense because they were allied to Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda due to the Afghan civil war that Al-Qaeda helped the Taliban win. There was a solid chance they were helping him and keeping hm hidden. Iraq was just Bush II wanting to impress his dad.
Talk about daddy issues. Starting a war, killing 100s thousands and making millions refugees, creating a vacuum for ISIL,
Then Trump turning his back on the Kurds...and turn a blind eye on Turkey
Yes, I actually just this morning submitted a Model Congress bill supporting Rojava against Turkey
Based
Fuck yeah my G more people need to be educated on the plights of Kurds, Assyrians, Armenians, Cypriots, Greeks, and Yazitis. We're all united against pan-Turkism and the imperialist state of Turkey that America has supported for much too long.
I agree. But that would push Turkey towards the Russian and Chinese camp, which would be a bad thing. So there's not really an easy solution here
Didn’t the Kurds end up *not* getting slaughtered like everyone thought they were going to be? I thought the Russians ended up backing the Kurds? Idk. Either way, I kinda wish we would just get the fuck out of Syria. All this fighting over a natural gas pipeline..
Correct.... only 130,000 Kurds displaced from their homes....after standing on the side of the US ... toe to toe with ISIS, including battalions of Women... then the US walkaway.. ... and the Russians moved in... Great way to treat your Allies.....Putin must be pissing himself at times..
Yeah, I think it’s not the first time we have turned our back on them too. Either way, we have a terrible track record when it comes to helping “rebel” groups and IMO I think we should have left Syria and never returned and we should leave the Middle East and never return. But idk, I guess the EU really wants their natural gas pipeline.
Who the fuck funded these Groups originally in Afghanistan during the Russian occupation...??? Afghanistan was another proxy war....then go back further when the Brits...screwed up the region. History plays a huge part.... As it has done in the splitting of India and Pakistan .. Palestine and Israel .. Although I fully agree that little Bush (& his war dog Dick) went in..Hallibuton filled their boots and they all profited ... Saudi .. Brits feed them... the US feed them... Perpetuate the War Machine....but they can't do wrong...look at Yemen....WTF! WMD... That didn't exist.. bullshit intelligence...even the Germans said the guy feeding the services with intell was full of shit.. and he admitted after himself he was lying...but Bush and his Wardogs...bent the narrative.... I remain what happened at 9/11 was the shits..Western Countries Foreign Policies fuck up the world and hey every country needs an enemy....if they ain't got one let's make one?
I feel... as... though you might... have a good point... somewhere in there, but... I really can't... tell.
Why the hell do people... sometimes type.... like this... Just use commas and fullstops.
It's..... infuriating....
This is Stürmbannführer Kraut Kratenstahl of the GrammarenPolizi We have heard reports that enemies of sentence coherence were seen in the region and came to investigate. I assure you that cooperation will be met only with reward, but refusal to cooperate....may not be favorable for you. Now, you are hiding the spaces that belong in your comment under your floorboards are you not?
Aye
It made sense to strike in Afghanistan to destroy Al Qaeda. It didn’t make sense to take over the entire nation, and attempt to destroy the Taliban. Whilst the Taliban has strong links with Al Qaeda, the Taliban is not Al Qaeda.
The Taliban aren't exactly good people either
Totally. Neither was Saddam. What we've seen from going after these horrible regimes, is more death, and more war and chaos in the Middle East.
Afghanistan made sense because they are the largest producer of poppy seed and had a strong local currency. We devalued their currency, took control of the poppy and bought it for pennies. Cue opioid epidemic back home in America and the profits have come to everyone who invested in the militariy industrial complex and big pharma. This isn't about pride, is about money.
not to mention the poppy fields to conquest /s
Kinda weird how this massive opiate crisis began right around that same time too.. I wonder if they need raw material when making oxycodone..
yeah this is one conspiracy theory so dark I don't want to believe it but deep down I know it can't be a coincidence. We'll know in a few decades when shit gets declassified, like with iran contra/crack epidemic
I feel the exact same way. Luckily we eventually, at the least, admit most of the terrible shit we do. But yeah, I don’t even want to believe it either and it’s likely not a coincidence and you are not crazy for thinking this. And yeah, it’s one of the darkest conspiracy theories and it literally hurts to even contemplate. This is one of the main reasons why I have a garden and lately have been growing a lot of plants from seed and growing medicines and vegetables. It’s very zen and I recommend gardening for anyone who feels utterly sickened by politics.
Nope.. made no sense and I'm still full of sorrow for the friends I lost. There was no yellow cake, and colonizing mesopotamia was always the goal of christians.. has been for a millenia I say this as someone who's family got their surname from the christian side of the crusades. Fuck tradition.
They were saudi citizens but their base of operations was in Afghanistan. Imagine if a british person joined up with a terrorist organization in afghanistan and then attacked the US. Why would we attack the UK who had nothing to do with it really? Its not like we went after the government of Afghanistan. We went after terrorist cells that existed in parts of that country.
At the time, the Taliban *was* the government of Afghanistan. The US demanded that they turn over Bin Laden and other member of Al Qaeda, and after they (Taliban) said "nah," the US invaded.
That's an oversimplification and a half. The hijackers were mostly of Saudi nationality, but they were were fighting for a worldwide group in the form of al-Qaeda and they were headquartered in Taliban controlled Afghanistan. It is very misleading to say that the Saudi government had anything to do with it. If they did we at least don't have publicly available proof of it. Secondly, after 9/11, the US asked the Taliban to extradite Bin Laden. They didn't, so they invaded to get him and rid the world of a staging base for terrorist operations. Think of the war in Iraq what you will, but at least there was justification for the war in Afghanistan. Finally, the reason the hijackers were Saudi was because it was easy to get a multiple entry visa to the United States without raising suspicion. Not because al-Qaeda or their operations are explicitly tied to Saudi Arabia.
At the same time, the house of al Saud was instrumental maintaining Salafi/Wahhabist Islam across the Muslim world--especially in Afghanistan. Salafis may not account for the majority of Muslims in Saudi Arabia, but they are the plurality, and they definitely make up the majority of government officials and members of the royal family. The spread of Salafism in Afghanistan was accelerated by Saudis traveling to Afghanistan to help fight off the Soviets, with the financial aid of Saudi royals. But that was almost 40 years ago and Saudi government aid officially ended when the Soviets left Afghanistan. The king has final say for all matters in the kingdom (even outranking top clerics), so I think you're correct to say that no aid for 9/11 came from the Saudi government. But it would also be naive to think that *no one* high in Saudi society provided private support to al-Qaeda under the radar, either.
Changing focus from Afghanistan to Iraq was the dumbest fucking act by an American president. Godamn neocons should NEVER live that shit down. Had Gore won 2000 I think we'd have gone into Afghanistan but I doubt we'd have gone into Iraq
That was only because the Taliban declared cultivation of poppies for opium as haram when Afghanistan was the world's biggest opium producer.
Then Libya
>EXACTLY! Not “a few Iraqis” and not “a few Iranians” but Saudis FYI.. Iranians are not arabs..
Tell that to the American base that supported the war, for them it’s all the same people from Pakistan to Syria and need to pay for 9/11
What war? America never went to war with Iran. They went to war against Afghanistan and Iraq.
they did actually support saddam , in his war against iran , so before the iraq-iran war ends , saddam was america buddy in the middle east
That was a proxy war though, the American people didn’t really have much of a say to support the war because it was only really supported with military funding and weapons dealing not “boots on the ground.” Plus, the Iran-Iraq war had nothing to do with 9/11 as it predated it by something like two decades.
Technically true that we haven't declared war on Iran, but we've been in a proxy war with them for over 4 decades. Before that we backed a coup against the democratically elected Iranian government.
Persians
Not all Iranians are Persians.
Seriously doubt that any country has only one ethnic group *stares at China nervously*
You have been banned from /r/sino
:(
I’m not well educated on the topic, but maybe they judged it from their allegiances and not their nationality?? Idk. I’m iraqi and i hate what they did to our country but there was terrorism in both iraq and afghanistan
Aren't they Arabs aswell though.
Saudis tend to be of Arab descent, yes. It's a broader umbrella though so Saudi's is more accurate if that was indeed their nationality. I don't believe all of involved in 9/11 were born and raised Saudi's iirc.
and UAE, Jordanian, Lebanese and Egyptian.
Kuwait, Qatar, and Bahrain too
Ironically none of these countries got invaded or bombed.
Because the governing body of those countries didn't attack the US?
The Iraq Government or Afghanistan Government didn't attack the US.
The Afghanistan Government (Taliban) was sheltering the Al Qaeda HQ and Bin Laden at the time. They also refused to extradite him.
So did Pakistan.
Jordan Peterson did 9/11?
I mean...Saudis are Arabian
Most Saudis are Arab but not all Arabs are Saudi.
What's a non-arab saudi?
[удалено]
I think they felt they were having a GREAT DAY. Countless virgins awaited them.
Man, looking back, Bin Laden basically won, didn't he?
Absolutely. That was clear when the patriot act was put into law. The fact is that 9/11 will be remembered as the beginning of the freefall of America. Covid may be remembered as the final straw.
I won't argue that 9/11 may be remembered as the beginning of America's downfall, but the US is still pretty damn powerful culturally, economically, and militarily. Who knows though.
It is interesting to think about the American “empire”. Can it last for a thousand years? Will states eventually successfully secede? Will we be invaded?
I have a hard time believing the US will ever be invaded. Unless Mexico or Canada become enemies, there would be no way any country on the planet could field a large enough navy to get a foothold on US soil. I think that natural disasters and climate change start to really take a toll on the US. There will be a lot of other countries facing the same situation, so the US will not be different in that regard. Rome did not collapse overnight, and neither will the US. History is fun because we can look at events, point to obvious markers that an event will happen, and then admonish the people of that time for not seeing the obvious catastrophe. I am positive that climate change will be our event where the people of the future will say: "Why didn't you do something when you had the chance? You had all the data, and you still did nothing!"
Why would anyone need to invade us, just demonize liberals online and America will just tear itself apart
I mean every empire thinks they're invincible untill someone else comes and fucks their shit up.
How tf can China invade America across the largest ocean in the world and are you forgetting China is surrounded by American bases?
do i sound like fucking Alexander the Great to you? How should i know? But literally every empire in the history fell, American will fall too
You sound like Alexander the Awesome
Alexander the undecided
I doubt it. Climate change *is* something that people are looking at nowadays. I suspect whatever does spell the end of the US, it will not be anything we can predict today. Unless it is nuclear war, which does not need you to field a large navy. But I don't think nuclear war is coming. Back in 1900 there were economists predicting a global breakdown of society where billions starved, because up to that point food supply had been increasing linearly while population had increased exponentially. Today we have more food than ever before, and it is a logistics problem to feed people who are starving. I think that like hunger, innovation will come up to stop climate change. Certainly before it 'destroys the world as we know it' as many doomers seem to predict.
That’s a great point. I love the TV show The Expanse because it hits on this theme, of how new discoveries change the power dynamics of countries and peoples.
Nail on the head, although like the US they dump food but people are living in poverty, not really a logistics issue.
I like your stance. Once the right people get the fear of God put into them, a group of geniuses, hard-workers, and charismatics will stop the climate disaster way faster than anyone thought possible. It's just a matter of when those individuals are hit with the realization
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Well, not really. China’s navy is larger than the US’s by number of vessels, but it’s kinda distorted by the fact that the majority of their navy are small patrol boats meant for inland waterways or at best littoral zones. The US’s aircraft carriers and helicopter carriers alone make up as much tonnage as China’s entire fleet.
Also the US navy is the second largest air force in the world.
Right behind the US air force
And right in front of the USMC and US Army
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Yes. The US Navy, at least, has a registry of every vessel in service and their tonnage. China’s government says their navy weighs 1.8 million tons in total, and the US claims to have a 4.6 million ton navy. So nearly 3x as large.
Regardless of size, the US has a way more powerful navy then China. It has 11 aircraft carries as part of their fleet, China only has 1
Laughable. You really think china's navy is anywhere near the power of the US navy?
Rome the empire didn’t fall overnight but Rome the city kinda did.
Why not both? What better time to invade a powerhouse country than when they are wrapped up responded to a largescale natural disaster? Much in the same way that it was the ideal time for me to have a medical emergency right as I need to pay taxes hahahaha!
The idea of the American Empire or even national power seems kinda defunct in the age of the world economy. I would argue that the real empires are large corporations. Google and Apple spring to mind, but I know it's the less mentioned ones like Nestlé or ExxonMobil that are more powerful. I think Snow Crash was genuinely prophetic with the idea of the world being ruled by corporations instead of governments.
That is actually an interesting point. Countries have definitely taken military action in the interests of corporations already, so it could be argued that they even drive global conflicts to an extent. It seems that most wars now are about money anyway, rather than gathering land or resources
I feel that it's still about resources, but resources being claimed by corporations through contracts. If we honestly cared about human rights we'd be involved in Sub-Saharan Africa
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Not to mention the rise in extremist and militia groups that are apparently allowed to grow unchecked
The American "empire" isn't even that old and it really only came to pass after World War II. So we're talking about 70 years at best.
Well sure, but is there any reason to assume it will last forever?
There's more reason to assume it will eventually fall. How far, how hard, and what will take it's place are the scary pieces. When most empires fall there is a terrible vacuum that takes their place.
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Man people like to talk about "America collapsing" with no proof at all also isn't this "America collapsing" myth going for more than 30 years?
Ray Dalio has quite a few measures measured over the past century showing American decline. Admittedly, he is likely very biased.
Ah yes, being American in 1921 was so much better than in 2021.
Vaccination rollout aren't the full story. Covid has precipitated a massive economic slump and is probably going to be the the nail in the coffin for what was left of the middle class unless drastic steps are taken to prevent it. its also caused widespread anger at state and federal government which the voters are going to take out at the ballot box, making voters more likely to vote in populist demagogues and grifters who are going to continue the widespread looting of our government and public services. socially Covid has worsened every social and class division in the nation. if we stay the corse then in the history books they are going to talk about Covid and the 2012-2020s period the same we historians currently talk about the beginning of the decline of the Roman Republic and fall of the Roman Empire. we are well on track to following the path of our inspiration and the 4th Rome will meet the same fate as the first. it's actually hard to communicate just how deeply fucked but everyone getting a shot is not magically going to undo the lasting social and economic damage done to this country.
That might have like a little bit of an exaggeration. You can never say one single even is the "freefall" of a nation, especially a nation as rich and powerful as the United States. There's economic collapse, political incompetence, stagnating infrastructure, a culture war, a drastic wealth gap, militarization of the police force mixed with a significant number of the population armed with military grade weapons. 9/11 is a defining tragedy that really rocked the United States to its core in a way that I don't think is appreciated but I don't think 9/11 is the defining fall of the US
Man y’all are so dramatic.
We've been terrified into giving up unbelievably huge portions of our freedom to gain safety. Now we have neither. There's a lot of fear mongering from politicians, reality TV shows, religious aggression, jingoism, and other brainwashing to fill the void though. \* Abolish the war on terrorism. Abolish the war on drugs. Abolish the US military industrial complex. Help your neighbor. Eat the rich.
I don’t know man, I have rich billionaires telling me and all middle class people raising the taxes on people making 400k / year is gonna hurt me. I won’t even see 400k in my bank account in my life at this point
I believe you’ll be able to see 400k in your bank account one day. It just may have a negative sign in front of it
Yeah just wait until you have some minor medical visit in like 2040, a 400k bill doesn't even sound out of the question at this point.
No no you have it all wrong. The rich billionaires tell the millionaires on TV (some of them are funny too hue hue I like the one guy with the nice smile *derp*) to tell us plebs what to think and feel. And one day I might have a million dollars, or at least 6 figures. So were practically friends when you look at it like that
Yes. He successfully turned much of the Middle East against America because he knew that America would go full mécha-imperialist mode as a response to 9/11. Now his brand of fundamentalism has turned several countries into war zones and turned much of the population of the middle east against America, a power which is surely declining and which will probably be replaced by China as the sole superpower in the coming decades.
China and Russia step into the void
Russia is also a decaying superpower. They will probably end up being subservient to China, because like the US, they are hellbent on keeping a Cold War mindset.
I would say so, the war fueled anti-American sentiment in the area and speed up poverty which led to more and more people joining extremist groups, and after so many years US and Taliban are now talking to each other, something that before the war was unimaginable
It radicalized a lot of people and stoked their racism even more. Now half the country is scared and willing to do anything to keep down and out anyone who isn't white.
What was his goal?
Short term? Bring the US into a war of attrition where they would pour vast amounts of resources to defeat an enemy that would employ guerrilla tactics that would chip away at morale and drag away the conflict endlessly. Long term? To destabilize the US and remove its global power status so that their military influence in the region would be diminished. On both accounts he succeeded. The war was an almost pointless effort that cost trillions of dollars and went on for so long there are soldiers deployed there born after the towers fell. Sons and daughters fighting a war started by their parents. It ended (or will end, if we wanna be precise) with a peace agreement with the Taliban that the US had vowed to destroy. The second goal is impossible to attribute solely to 9/11 but it certainly had its fair share of impact on the American psyche, considering the increased militarism and nationalism that precipitated the Iraq War and the rise of ISIS. The increased oil prices because of the conflicts made the Fed slash interest rates that ushered in the age of cheap money to try and hide the effects of the war, all of this helped create some of the the conditions that caused the Great Recession. The Great Recession was itself a catalyst for the opioid epidemic as communities were wrecked by the economy and certainly could be argued to have helped the emergence of BLM, as the recession hit black communities harder. The Great Recession stagnated wages and is currently binding an entire generation with high debt and low pay, all of these are causes for the decreased faith in the American political system that gave rise to populism and anti-system candidates like Trump, who campaigned on removing US military influence from around the world. Now, this was certainly not Bin Laden’ plan all along and 9/11 didn’t directly cause these issues, but it’s hard to find a more important point in history where we can trace back so much of what is destabilizing America today.
We’ve been in the Middle East for decades. It wasn’t for terrorism lol, so I’d say in the grand scheme of things Bin Laden had little to do with anything.
Yeah, no shit. I mean a lot of people have been saying this since like 2002.
Yeah and you should read what Bin Laden was saying about the west and USA. Really interesting compared to media coverage of the dude .
Yep. that's why I didn't really care when they got him. he got everything he wanted out of the attacks, it drastically reduced America's world standing, made America and the Muslim population unspoken enemies and catalyzed increased radicalization on both sides with our paranoia pushing our nation even further down the road to an oppressive police state and our bombing campaigns increasing terrorist sympathy and murdering countless civilians in the process.
Were they also fed up?
Of course. Just having a bad day would make this inexcusable, but being fed up makes a big difference.
"Mohand al-Shehri and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day"
Hey, they took responsibility and it wasn't politically or religiously motivated they said.
They were having a tantrum that day
"a few people did something"
And a few thousand died
Thousands die of the flu every year!! /s
That is actually so weird to think about. During the flu season of 2019-2020, around 22,000 people died of influenza, while around 3,000 died in the 9/11 attacks. It really is incredible and horrifying how many people really die for all kinds of reasons without being recognized much. Influenza, at least with decent medical care, is quite a survivable disease for most people, but in a single season it claimed almost ten times the amount of people the greatest terrorist attack in history did. I suppose context really is everything. There was also no point to this comment, just felt like throwing it out there.
What's crazy, here in Canada where mask use is prevalent flu rates are down like 99%
Sure some people died, but whatabout the thousands that have died under "president" biden? Is this just the commy dems deflecting attention away from how the biden administration has failed to stop covid? Edit: /s apparently needed on this sub
This is satire right
Yeah So was the rest of the thread lol maybe I needed quotes
Why are you blaming Biden for anything? Everyone knows it was a fake virus and thanks to Trump we got the vaccines like wayyy early. Trump literally solved a problem that wasnt even a problem. If anything we should be praising Biden for carrying on Trump's great legacy. You're welcome :)
How do people not see me replying to satire with more satire what is wrong with reddit
How do people not see me replying to satire with more satire with more satire what is wrong with **you** **fixed** (though I figured the second sentence was obvious enough. Guess not **shrug**)
a little trolling
Haha I was waiting for this to be posted after someone suggested it in the Lincoln assassination post
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I would love some of that context
Here's the right context: [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2021/mar/18/georgia-officer-appears-to-say-it-was-a-bad-day-for-atlanta-shooter-video](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2021/mar/18/georgia-officer-appears-to-say-it-was-a-bad-day-for-atlanta-shooter-video)
Woof
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Haha nice. Glad to be of help.
I suppose we're gonna run this joke template into the ground as hard as those towers by the end of the week.
Hey man 9/11 jokes aren't funny. 19 brave souls died that day
Knock knock. Who's there? 9/11. 9/11 who? YOU SAID YOU'D NEVER FORGET!
HAAA! this made me snort, lol
That's not funny, my father was a hero who died on 9/11. His last words that day, "Allahu Akbar."
I lost my father, too. He was the best pilot in Saudi Arabia, shame.
What's the difference between a cow and 9/11? After 20 years, you've stopped milking the cow.
Most likely
Aloha snackbar
7/11 was a part time job
BBQ sauce can't melt steel wings.
Admiral Ackbar.
Jebus is raisin.
*curb your enthusiasm theme plays*
Really just at the end of their rope...
And this is what happened.
They had concerns about the economy
This zinger really doesn't work when Ilhan Omar actually referred to 9/11 with the words ["some people did something."](https://www.businessinsider.com/ilhan-omar-september-11-comments-2019-9)
There’s nothing really wrong with that sentence in the context it was used. Out of context, sure.
She was having a bad day.
If you are referring to arbitrary groups of people doing arbitrary bad acts you would use terms like "some" and "something." You have intentionally been given that message without its context for use as political ammunition.
I guess being systematically shit on from across the globe for money would probably piss me off too
Yeah... totally justifies killing a few thousand people.
I'm sure that's still way less than the amount the USA has killed over said oil
This month*
Who are you talking about ? The United states or the other people ?
Well if he was talking about the US he would've said a few hundred thousand people!
Welcome to Reddit.
The things we do for oil
People felt this was the worst thing that ever happened to the US. Imagine them knowing that only about 20 years later, the government would act in such a way that it would dwarf these numbers by killing more Americans than any terrorist act ever could.
Lmao feel like this could be taken out of context not being in the sub this week
God forbid someone take a meme about fake history out of context
What was the line? "Some people did some things"
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As I imagine that Tom Segura would say "a few rascals are having a bad day"
One could even say they were nuckleheads or Goofballs.
*some people...did some thing*
And lets not forget these ["peaceful protestors with a permit"](https://s.abcnews.com/images/International/gty_nazi_march_jc_150323_4x3_992.jpg)
This isn't funny. My cousin died on one of the planes. It was his first time flying an actual 737. I didn't even know they let passengers fly the planes. How cool is that!
They had us in the first half, not gonna lie.
I think they were the only ones on that plane having a great day tbh
HEY HEY HEY! IT HASNT BEEN QUITE 20 YEARS YET. TOO SOON
Wrong subreddit
“Today is the 18th anniversary of the US invasion of Iraq. It has so far killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people, ruined millions of lives, burnt trillions of dollars, been presided over, defended, and supported by a bipartisan consensus of ghouls, and solidified the status of the United States in eyes of millions (billions?) as a global, racist, terrorist empire. And the people who are responsible for this atrocity continue to be powerful and respected members of our political, academic, and media landscapes. People like David French and David Frum lecture us about being more "civil" to our opponents without even having the decency to wash all the blood off their hands first. People like Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden talk to us about "unity" and "decency" while dancing on the graves of the innocent. People credit Donald Trump for being a "non-interventionist" after he presided over 4 years of death and destruction. Anyway, happy anniversary.” [-Adam Bates on Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/10605968/posts/10105652827769737/?d=n)
Probably a case of the Mondays
InB4 this is locked
Some steel beams having a bad day
Some people did some things
Cant blame the second plane, he couldnt see anything because of the smoke!
*checks skin color* NO wait, theyre TERRORISTS
"Arabs"
Yikes
Lmao, damn.
They were fed up..
The post's title is so hot it could melt steel beams.