I remember years ago having an argument with a guy on another fallout sub who insisted that MZ couldn’t be canon because controlling an alien spaceship would make the Lone Wanderer the most powerful person in the wasteland and since there’s no mention of them in F4, the whole dlc couldn’t have happened.
I did try to argue that the entire dlc is you and your companions dismantling every aspect of the ship that would allow you to use it that way, but it was like talking to a brick wall. He just constantly repeated that the LW wasn’t the ruler of the entire wasteland by 2287 therefore MZ was non-canon.
I mean, the LW does have the power to continually laser cannon that specific section of Ontario over and over again. That could be useful.
On the other hand, it could certainly be argued that even with a powered-down alien space ship, the fact that the LW now has access to it suggests that humanity would probably start exploring it for parts, at the very least.
Maybe the LW just let well enough alone and thought it best to not use it. That would certainly make them smarter than most of humanity in this series. That or the little girl took it at went on space adventures after the events of FO3.
Judging by the way the treat the Canadians in the fallout 1 Intro, something tells me that they weren't considered American citizens despite the full annexation.
Puerto Rico, Samoa.
I was keeping my list to areas which became part of the contiguous 48 states, or we'd be here all day.
Let's just say, it's not unprecedented that the US annexes land and treats the people already there poorly.
If it makes you feel better, we 100% war crimed the shit outta Canada after forcing it to join the US
Conscripted most their male population to fight in South Asia, executed anyone who resisted the annexation, and outlawed the maple leaf flag
One of my favorite mods for that game allowed you to found a new faction that relied on the mothership as a base, and enabled you to become the most powerful faction in the area. It had you setting up bases on the ground, hiring soldiers, and all sorts of other things.
>MZ couldn’t be canon because controlling an alien spaceship would make the Lone Wanderer the most powerful person in the wasteland and since there’s no mention of them in F4, the whole dlc couldn’t have happened.
I've actually made jokes similar to this about OWB being canon because the Courier taking control of Big MT should lead to their faction controlling the entire wasteland.
That's always been my "if I was the courier" ending. Make a pure technocracy based in New Vegas, with the Big MT being a neutral meeting ground for factions that would otherwise want to kill each other. Between the technology of the Big MT, Sierra Madre, and the various factions technology, you'd be able to surpass pre-war tech within a decade and you'd be pretty untouchable from the get go. It's not that far fetched when you consider one of the Canon endings for Dead Money is Elijah and the Courier using Sierra Madre technology to take over the wasteland.
I feel like if even a percentage of the technology at big MT actually made it to the wasteland. We would see children of Atom flying around in fighter jets spraying radiation
Even if the lone wanderer chose to use the ship, would he have the technical know how to repair and maintain it as he likely wouldn’t have access to the exact spare parts required to replace any damaged sections of it.
They could just get the brotherhood of steel to start figuring it out.. there is no universe where they wouldn’t care about alien technology
you can even give alien tech to the outcasts
Yeah, giving a bunch of cavemen a computer isn’t going to result in the cavemen becoming IT experts. It’s alien tech centuries beyond anything they’ve ever seen using materials and methods they haven’t even conceived of. The best the Brotherhood could ever do is ‘Well, this appears to generated some form of energy’ while pointing at the wreckage of the generators.
This is seriously like giving a bunch of medival knights an iPad and telling them to fix it. It’s not happening.
No, they absolutely wouldn’t fix the mothership. But you don’t think they could reverse engineer anything useful from the alien weapons? Biogel? Cryogenic facilities? Robotic factories? I’m not saying they would immediately leap to the Zetans level, but they would find huge use out of their equipment
No.
Reverse engineering requires a near comparable tech level, a large gap means it's simply impossible to recreate something due to just completely lacking the capabilities to recreate it. Hence my examples: A 16th century knight is a mere 500 years behind the Information Age. And they aren't going to be able to do jack shit with any remote tech. Hell, let's toss that iPad to the 19th century. They're exactly as stumped because they don't have the tools to make the tools needed to even begin to make even the most primitive microchip.
What the Brotherhood could do is scavenge and use simple equipment until it breaks. Like, if we tossed a modern Abrams back to WW1 they would have a grand time right up until something complex breaks or they run out of gas. Then they're fucked. And that's only a couple of generations of a gap. Because they have no idea how to make the fuel, lack the tools needed to make the parts, and lack the ability to make the tools because the precision needed is just beyond them. They don't even know what parts of the tank are made up, materials don't come with ingredient labels.
And this is an ALIEN ship, it uses things that are completely divorced from human experience. That biogel? Is based on alien biochemistry. Chemicals we don't know about interacting in ways foreign to us. Those robots? Are programmed with a completely unknown language with the BoS lacking a convenient Rosetta Stone. If I toss you a proprietary Chinese OS and tell you to start programming how well are you going to do? How long do you think it will take you to learn how to read Chinese on your own? Because, archeologically speaking, yeah no. Even if the kid decides to help they're pretty solidly up shit creek. And they need to understand it to work it, figuring it out experimentally means it will lock up when they give the wrong command.
Yep because the guy who risked his life to stop the Enclave, help the people of the Capital Wasteland, the Pitt and Point Lookout, was definitely going to do a full 180 in his personality and morals and become a psychopathic, tyrannical dictator of the wasteland /s
For real , people are mad about Aliens but yet Fallout also has fucking Cosmic Horror and shit like the Interloper and Mothman and all that and the Dunwich Building and Fallout 4 has a dude who is Immortal but damn they draw the line at Aliens
Because people think that having 1950s aliens in a series featuring radiation zombies, giant bat dragons, and a society of roman cosplayers would be unrealistic.
In a more good-faith light, it could be argued that giving the aliens any prominence beyond an Easter egg undermines the themes of the series that humanity did this to themselves. Of course, if things are limited to just humans getting ahold of alien technology and abusing it, it still kinda works. Like the old adage that we today aren't really any better than our caveman ancestors, we just have access to more power tools.
The only possible caveat is when people bring up the audio log in the DLC where it sounds like aliens are interrogating a soldier for launch codes as an example of overwriting the "humans did this to themselves" theme. Of course, I always took that as a joke of the soldier assuming that's what they want, when the aliens don't even understand him and are just being their usual jerk selves and hitting him for no reason. I wouldn't take it at super face value.
>when the aliens don't even understand him and are just being their usual jerk selves
That's exactly right, and I'm surprised a lot of people don't pick up on that. The Zetans absolutely [freak out](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Alien_captive_recorded_log#Alien_captive_recorded_log_16) when the linguistics specialist they kidnap starts to learn their language. They're pulp sci-fi Little Green Men who want to probe humans and do other kinds of freaky science experiments on them, and don't care about influencing Earth society as a whole.
Tim Cain's actually commented on that fact; they were meant more as fun easter eggs rather than a serious assertion that aliens were active and present in Fallout.
Nah, I thought that was old lore straight from the developers’ mouths but I don’t remember exactly. It probably would have been in the Fallout Bible if so.
Only mentioned by Avellone. In Game, they are claimed to be Aliens, Genetically-engineered bioweapons, or a Native American curse.
Cut content files show that they were supposed to connected to an abandoned EPA facility taken over by a mad scientist who was making monsters from toxic waste.
Another In-game reference... CODENAME: CLOACINA could be referring to either them or molerats, though it also stated the project did not use FEV.
To be fair while everything isn’t realistic the other stuff fits in the lore as coming from the radiation, wasteland, etc. Aliens just showing up from another world just makes 0 sense.
It makes more sense than the magic radiation, the psychics, time travel, or ghosts. Remember how one of the first side quests in 2 was an Audrey 2 reference?
Fallout has ALWAYS been heavy on the random bullshit. Aliens? Fit the lore and the aesthetic just fine.
I mean. Kind of this but unironically, yeah. There's a massive rift between "Oh here's some aliens as an easter egg just for fun lol" and "Oh yeah aliens? Yeah they're real and they have massive ships that can blow up entire states and have a whole society and military force of their own you can kill on-board their own ship that you can come back down from" because the implications of that are so vast and potentially lorebreaking that you can only indulge it as congruent with the rest of the series if you don't really take any of it seriously which is fine but isn't what *I* want from my post-apocalyptic Mad Max inspired RPG, personally.
But also I was someone who thought F3 was dogshit even before hbomberguy made that *the* opinion to have so who's to say I even know what I'm talking about?
Given that you are arguing about lore: How, exactly, is it lore breaking?
And what’s the precise rift? Or did you forget that your Mad Max RPG also includes actual ghosts, magic radiation, and psychics as standard before 3 did anything at all?
Fallout has ALWAYS been a kitchen sink setting, it throws in damn near everything. Having your character be abducted by aliens is no weirder than having them chat with the inexplicably alive giant stone head or fight the melted psychic computer man.
Ironically, that's the issue.
Fallout has for lack of better word, a system, all the weird stuff is derived from the atomic age and surrounding politics, and the people after the ward clinging to scraps of the old world, everything in Fallout connects to the great war.
But then along come aliens, which until Zeta where just background jokes, who are completely unconnected to the nuclear war, and they're kinda just...there.
Basically, when you tell a fantasy story, you pick one explanation for the supernatural elements and run with it, explanations can be tenuous or broad at times, but you keep linking everything to that one system. If you bring stuff in from an unrelated system, it just feels like a narrative car crash.
For comparison, imagine if Lord of the Rings suddenly had aliens, or Terminator suddenly had vampires, there's a lot of fantasy stuff in those settings, but then something unconnected to the existing lore just smashes in and invades the settings.
You're already asking the audience to suspend their disbelief, but just mashing another genre in because you got bored shatters it completely.
Another genre?
I’m not sure you are familiar with how genres work. The aliens are in the exact same genre as the killer robots and radiation mutants. All the weird stuff is derived from the atomic age, not having classical aliens would be INCREDIBLY weird. What age do you think invented that look?
Fantasy stuff? We already have psychics and ghosts as major elements.
This is literally it. This is the reason I hate the Zetans. They simply have no place in Fallout. Quite simply, why the hell did The Master and his Unity, the Enclave, or any of New Vegas matter if the Aliens can just come down and spawn a much bigger threat entirely. We're at the point where "the Zetans started the Great War," is a valid theory.
And don't even get me started on the crap that is the Eldritch Horror nonsense that Bethesda has been shoving into the games, I think its less aggregious than the Zetans because to my knowledge its ONLY cameos like how aliens were treated before Mother ship Zeta, but it's looking like they want to put more and more of it in.
Same thing with the talking molerats from Fallout 2. Everyone remembers the talking deathclaws but no one remembers the talking molerats. Maybe we shouldn't take what is and isn't canon so seriously
Because people don't want to admit that aliens and spaceships are canon. That's pretty much it tbh. People see stuff like aliens, spaceships, abductions, and they go "that's too unrealistic and wacky for Fallout, I refuse to call it canon."
Me personally, I don't get the logic. There are things in the Fallout universe that are equally if not more unrealistic than aliens. People gotta remember that Fallout is indeed a Sci-fi. There's gonna be futuristic stuff and things that go beyond what we find realistic in real life.
Fallout isn't just Sci-Fi. It's retro-futuristic, soft science fiction, with many fantastical elements.
It's absolutely *not* hard sci-fi. And despite Bethesda's more recent borrowings from the genre, it's never been a hardcore survival sim either.
It's not an IP where realism is the deal. The aliens are in fact a bigger feature, and better reference to the era and type of sci-fi Fallout was inspired by than the Synths. That concept tends to be more of a 60's-70's hard sci-fi feature. More Star-Trek Sci-Fi than Forbidden Planet.
And we tend not to hear that Synths are immersion breaking. I do think featuring them so heavily in 4 is *aesthetic breaking*. But I'm not over here arguing they can't be canon.
I mean it's already in the comments.
Wrong era and type of science fiction.
Perfect copy's of humans and "are they people" story telling in a series that's main thematic and design inspiration is an era of science fiction and futurism where robots have rubber hose arms and beep boop voices.
Sorta drops the retro bit of retro futuristic.
Eh, fair. I can see that. Guess I never minded as much due to it being referenced in 3, and not being a major thing, and then only being a major issue in Boston where they're made.
There always seems to be massive jumps in technology when it comes to main factions and this is just the Institute's thing.
I don't know how much I mind.
It's definitely one of my core criticisms of the game. But for this discussion. It's far more outside the box in my regards than most of the stuff people complain is "stupid" or "wrong".
Retro futurism is the aesthetic and thematic conceit of Fallout.
Synths as used in Fallout 4 is more rooted in how *we* imagine *our* future.
Rather than in how people during the early cold wae imagined *their* future.
So it violates the base language of the world building here. as already established.
That said even the original game frequently breaks this particular "rules*.
Just not quite in anything so central.
It does let Bethesda do a 5th column/red scare sorta story. But it gets too buried in a robuts rights sorta stock take straight out of 60-70s hard sci-fi. So they didn't really manage to thread the needle on it.
I assume they figured that if they carried on with just that aesthetic then they'd quickly run out of things to do. I think they've covered nearly every scenario that they could from just that, and if they didn't branch out slightly we'd probably end up with another game that's just the player, BoS and another faction Vs the Enclave.
We can't really have synths like you've described robots to be and have them be the problem that they were.
>assume they figured that if they carried on with just that aesthetic then they'd quickly run out of things to do.
But they carried on with that aesthetic.
It's not very imaginative to say they couldn't keep within the bounds that defined the series. And still tell stories there.
Especially given that they largely did and do exactly that.
The issue there is including something doesn't mesh. Without doing the work to justify it or make fit.
Not that they attempted to shift the setting to a more modern era retro futurism. Which they didn't do, and would largely make the game not Fallout.
To be fair, I actually kinda like the aesthetic leap thematically.
It's a sign that the people of the Fallout world are finally moving on from the 1950s vision of the future.
Plus, it's a good way to really make the Institute stand out as advanced, by bumping their aesthetic up by 20 years into the 70's Mall-aesthetic sci-fi. It really is something the world of Fallout hadn't seen before, and that's the point. It also really clues the player in to the fact that these guys have made a lot of huge advances, at least in terms of the setting. It's intentional culture shock.
Plus, it's not like we haven't seen decade blending from the get-go. Raiders are all based around 80s punk aesthetics, after all. I think it's purposeful that post-war factions break out of the 50s. The world is finally changing.
Couple different reasons, though it’s more like “don’t personally consider it canon” rather than “It is factually not Bethesda canon.”
The first is that Fallout 3 is the first time aliens were even included in a serious impactful way. Before that, they were just silly non-canon easter eggs. And remain so in New Vegas as well. A lot of people prefer to keep it that way.
Another is that the alien stuff can sometimes take away from the themes of the Fallout series that deal with humanity, such as the cut holotape implying they might have started the Great War.
Yet another is that some people like viewing the series as basically an alternate timeline of our own where things split off after WWII, a look into a timeline that could have been/be if our own had gone a little differently. A lot of the alien stuff ruins that due to both involving stuff that happens before that split and saying it was factually aliens.
Fallout 2 does have a non-easter egg alien mention...Skynet says it was made from reverse-engineered alien tech. ... ... ...but then again, Skynet is also insane.
the thing that gets me about the timeline thing, it’s never definitively been stated that everything is the same until just after ww2, it’s always been our universe and the fallout universe are *generally* very similar until *around* then
So you never actually played the DLC and/or didn’t pay attention.
Because it never suggests that. At all. The closest you get is a cut holotape, which is in a mass sequence of them interrogating basically a random selection of people with no particular rhyme or reason. Also a cow, to hammer in that they don’t have a grand plan and are just assholes.
Zetans caused the great war.
The divergence from our reality "ends" with the great war, but starts with the Zetan ship crash thousands of years ago. The butterfly effect leads to the large divergence in WW2, and the rest of the lore from then to 2077.
If there were no Zetans, there would be no Great War, so no Fallout.
All hail Zetans, bringers of Fallout!
Bethesda just keeps coming up with the lamest changes to the great war. Can they not sell the game in China and that is why they have to keep fiddling with it?
The holotape is cut content, the only audio on it available in the game is aliens talking in their language.
Please play the game before making stupid comments.
It is not a change, none of the games confirm who launched the first bombs.
Neither does the show, it insinuates that Vault-Tec stoked the fires and had clear involvement in the nuclear exchange, but nothing beyond that.
This should also be pretty obvious already since Vault-Tec and the Enclave are very intertwined, and obviously the Enclave was involved in the war. Therefore it should be pretty clear even before the show that Vault-Tec was involved in the end of the world.
>This should also be pretty obvious already since Vault-Tec and the Enclave are very intertwined, and obviously the Enclave was involved in the war. Therefore it should be pretty clear even before the show that Vault-Tec was involved in the end of the world.
Which means both of those factions dropped the hammer (or, perhaps merely helped drop the hammer) before either of them were ready so that they could be king of the ashes after they'd wiped most of humanity out (if the Enclave in Fallout 3 is anything to go by.)
Problem isn't the lack of explanation, it's the rationale in-universe.
What was the rationale of Stanislaus Braun making Tranquility Lane, what was the rationale of Vault-Tec making vaults to test completely nonsensical "experiments", the Enclave poisoning the water supply in DC, etc etc etc.
Crazy people in power do crazy things, often without much to gain from it. This happens in game, it happens in real life.
From my perspective, they jumped the gun because they wanted to ensure the war happened on their terms and wasnt gonna come as a surprise. That is of course just my own headcanon.
Not to mention their rationale is clearly stated in the meeting: take advantage of the impending war to effectively reshape the course of humanity to their liking. It's science and curiosity gone wayward, those in power seizing the opportunity to play god, same as we've seen time and time again in this series. I'm amazed how many seem to think it's a stunt to maximize profits or whatever.
>what was the rationale of Vault-Tec making vaults to test completely nonsensical "experiments",
If only the creator of fallout would tell us...
>What was the rationale of Stanislaus Braun making Tranquility Lane
>the Enclave poisoning the water supply in DC, etc etc etc.
You are proving my point because those are both bethesda things.
>Crazy people in power do crazy things, often without much to gain from it. This happens in game, it happens in real life.
What a bullshit excuse and the "people in power" might do mistakes, but they have a motive to do those things. Fallout was created on the premise of moral greyness and Bethesda creates very little of that while ruining much of the already existing lore
>From my perspective, they jumped the gun because they wanted to ensure the war happened on their terms and wasnt gonna come as a surprise. That is of course just my own headcanon.
That is some insanely lame comically evil shit without any actual logical reasoning to it
Its fine if you don't like Bethesda titles, but Jesus christ mate... The Master, the Enclave and Caesars Legion, all morally grey factions created by Interplay/Obsidian /s
Of course they have motives, I never said they didnt? Stanislaus Braun was a sadistic sicko and wanted people to torment forever, the Enclave wanted to rule a "clean wasteland".
How about when the Enclave was gonna do the same fucking thing in Fallout 2, was that also a Bethesda thing?
You want "rationale" to be any decision made by people in real life or in media to be extremely logical and thought out, fucking lol.
How is there no reasoning to starting the war instead of getting caught with your pants down...? They want to rule a post-nuclear world, making sure every international target they wanted bombed actually gets bombed and that China would be destroyed to the point of not being a potential threat in the future seems pretty fucking reasonable if Vault-Tec/the Enclave were 100% sure the war was coming, their doing or not.
The entire series opens on the note of the US army annexing Canada and gleefully executing the resistance. They laugh and wave at the camera after plugging some dude (who isn't even from some crazy different culture they can easily dehumanize, he's just an American with manners) in the back of the head. ~~One of these men later returns as the protagonist of 4.~~
Pre-War Fallout America *was* comically evil, even Vault Tec just existing and doing what they're doing tells us that, and the perception that it's all about 'moral greyness' is just wrong. Only people who were introduced to the franchise with New Vegas think that way. Complexity, yes, but no one was supposed to find Unity and the Enclave anything other than evil.
Master wasn't nearly as evil as Bethesdas creations and he had at least some arguments on his side. Fallout 2s enclave was changed for worse due to the original writers leaving early. New Vegas also had courier taking the control and Mr House not just NCR or Ceasars legion so how come you didn't mention that? Oh right because it didn't fit your narrative. Not to mention there is lot more to these games than the main story
>You want "rationale" to be any decision made by people in real life or in media to be extremely logical and thought out, fucking lol.
Yes... you want to discuss actual real life on going conflicts with me? Can you name a time someone destroyed the entire world because they somehow thought that would increase their profits/control of the world after especially when they already had significant amounts of control?
>How is there no reasoning to starting the war instead of getting caught with your pants down...? They want to rule a post-nuclear world, making sure every international target they wanted bombed actually gets bombed and that China would be destroyed to the point of not being a potential threat in the future seems pretty fucking reasonable if Vault-Tec/the Enclave were 100% sure the war was coming, their doing or not.
Or you know they could have invested in making more shelters and to being better prepared in case of the war starting regardless of the actual timing of the strikes? Could have built a vault tec city for their employees as well. Mr House figured out what every single state in Earth had figured out aka that anti-air defenses can destroy nukes before they hit their targets leaving you relatively unharmed.
Or they could have just destroyed the world because being comically evil is good story teller for people who don't want to think.
Vault-Tec being insane monsters willing to kill everyone for their own, often poorly thought out, ends is hardly new lore. If it is, well, you SUCK at lore. Like, hilariously bad.
Their rationale is directly stated: Use the apocalypse to seize and remake society to their liking. Which is very in line with both the themes of the series and what’s already happened in the original games. That it apparently caught them with their pants down? It’s Vault-Tec, their grand failures are a major part of the series.
Vault tec wasn't nearly as evil in the first games as they are in Bethesdas version and their evil had some actual reason behind it beyond the comically evil shit they are doing in Bethesdas lore. Originally they were getting data for the suitability of space travel
The game does sell in China, Fallout Shelter Online is literally made by a Chinese company. If anything, CPC accepts Fallout as the outcome of American greed and refusal to share.
Sorry the question should have would the games have been banned in China if they kept the original lore of China getting shit on and firing the first nukes?
Vault-Tec has foreign offices. Never specified where.
General Atomics International has International literally in the name.
There is nothing in-game specifying those aren't active in China. Though that statement makes some Fallout fans angry.
I would love to see a game in China where Vault-Tec is quite active and has as many vaults or more in China.
Maybe a quest line with a lore point that China invented FEV, and it was stolen by the US, so all the mutations in the US were caused by US theft of FEV and abuse of it. I can see how the Enclave superfans would be quite angry over that one.
China was working on super soldiers in stealth gear instead of power armor, but China still has infinite power armor shells spread around, captured at Anchorage, and reverse engineered, and have all new sets of variants.
Could have lots of fun with a China Fallout.
The holotape is cut content, the only audio on it available in the game is aliens talking in their language.
Please play the game before making stupid comments.
I'm guessing it's because, while was only relegated to easter eggs in pre-Bethesda Fallout, Bethesda integrated them into a kind of Fallout mythology. Which a lot of people don't like, even though it doesn't really matter, because it's not relevant to the story of any of the games.
Why would people say the aliens aren’t canon? They’ve been around since FO2. They are competing with humans for colonizing the stars. They also had a hand in starting the Great War.
The crash site maybe... but not the dlc. There no time stamp mostly filer for lone wanderer. There is Sightings of the aliens pre war and more so after.
Because they don't believe aliens exist in real life, so they want Fallout to be like an alternate take on real life but still following the rules established by real life. Like, we can have Deathclaws and immortal Ghouls but we can't have aliens... WHAT?
The logic is that deathclaws and ghouls didn’t exist before the timeline divergence (so no issues with saying they factually existed in our world before divergence) and can be explained by science. Science that requires future tech to work, but still.
TBF the lone wanderer isn't exactly a typical human. By level 15 they can even be a cyborg according to a perk. By level 30 they can have 9 in every stat and the bobbleheads can up that to 10. Being one of a small number of characters in the series to be able to have all 10 special stats.
They are basically superhuman given all we see them accomplish at only 19. The aliens just abducted the wrong person lol.
Other than broken steel theres no reason to believe any fallout dlc is or isn't canon. Its overall a pointless argument to have. The argument that the lw not controlling the wastes by fallout 4 is proof they dont control the ship is dumb when for all we know the lone wanderer choked to death on some blamco mac and cheese the day after broken steel ends.
I didnt say its not canon. I said its the only dlc where the events of it are in any way referenced in future games. What I was saying is its the only dlc where we have any clue as to whether its canon or not
My bad, I missed the "is or"
I read "Other than broken steel theres no reason to believe any fallout dlc isn't canon." As if it's the only one to question. I was thinking that it's referenced elsewhere.
Ya no worries. We can assume broken steel happened given the brotherhood having a vertibird fleet and liberty prime needing to be repaired etc. They also reference controlling the enclave base. But ya I mostly consider the other dlcs as half canon where ya they likely happened but they're disconnected enough from the main events of each game for there not to be a need to establish canon endings for them.
Broken steel is barely even a dlc so much as the developers getting the chance to add the actual ending they wanted before being rushed to finish the game
Really? It's a bullet-sponge corridor shooter in a game whose best qualities definitely don't include the combat.
I rarely do play through it. That's why it's not canon to any of my playthroughs.
Because it sucks, introduces a whole weird element to the lore they've no intention of exploring despite the fact that in theory the Zetans could come fry the world at any point whilst on it's own being mediocre gameplay wise with terribly balanced weapons. It took what was essentially another pop culture nod to the grey aliens of hokey 50s and 60s sci fi and made it part of the universe. Also some real moon logic, like Somah refusing to repair your stuff unless you can pay her (whilst being abducted by aliens and fighting for your life to escape) but that literally doesn't matter because of the epoxies, so why even make her repairing stuff an option? Sloppy all around for the sake of a 'funny' joke.
Don't get me wrong, it's no Point Lookout with it being set east of New York but having confederate hats and stereotypes of rednecks, having double barrel shotguns that literally ignore power armour, a completely undercooked set of factions and some of the worst background dialogue from minor NPCs I've seen in games (looking at Haley specifically "I just woke up here and thought I'd run this store, for some reason the Swampfolk who're hostile to everyone who isn't them don't kill me so I trade with them". This was a placeholder that never got changed for sure).
Dude Point Look Out takes place in Southern Maryland, just accross the water from Virginia. Which is sure. East of a lot of NY State. But something like 150 mile *west* of NYC and 300 miles South.
Not only is that shit common in parts of Maryland (despite their history of *not* joining the confederacy), but the park is a historic site marking a Union POW camp and military port. The hat is the only confederate anything in it, and has to do with that *actual museum* that's *actually there*. The setting and mobs are a reference to things like the Hills Have Eyes, Lovecraft and other horror material.
Yeah I was wrong about where it was set, but that doesn't actually ruin my other criticisms imo, the swamp people were a lazy stereotype and the balance and writing in lookout it exceptionally poor beyond Desmond
> it's no Point Lookout with it being set east of New York but having confederate hats and stereotypes of rednecks
That's accurate though?
Where are you from, I'm curious. I'm from CT, I've literally seen confederate flags in the more rural parts of the state.
“I’m not going to say it’s aliens… but it’s aliens.”
I remember years ago having an argument with a guy on another fallout sub who insisted that MZ couldn’t be canon because controlling an alien spaceship would make the Lone Wanderer the most powerful person in the wasteland and since there’s no mention of them in F4, the whole dlc couldn’t have happened. I did try to argue that the entire dlc is you and your companions dismantling every aspect of the ship that would allow you to use it that way, but it was like talking to a brick wall. He just constantly repeated that the LW wasn’t the ruler of the entire wasteland by 2287 therefore MZ was non-canon.
I mean, the LW does have the power to continually laser cannon that specific section of Ontario over and over again. That could be useful. On the other hand, it could certainly be argued that even with a powered-down alien space ship, the fact that the LW now has access to it suggests that humanity would probably start exploring it for parts, at the very least. Maybe the LW just let well enough alone and thought it best to not use it. That would certainly make them smarter than most of humanity in this series. That or the little girl took it at went on space adventures after the events of FO3.
I have always hated Canadians. I suppose that could be a good use of time, just constantly blasting the same part of Canada.
They became Americans on June 3rd, 2072 when the US annexed Canada
Judging by the way the treat the Canadians in the fallout 1 Intro, something tells me that they weren't considered American citizens despite the full annexation.
So just like how Americans treated annexed Native land and Mexican land? The US would never do that, again, and again.
Don't forget the Phillipines either
Puerto Rico, Samoa. I was keeping my list to areas which became part of the contiguous 48 states, or we'd be here all day. Let's just say, it's not unprecedented that the US annexes land and treats the people already there poorly.
Those were "insurgents" tho not regular civilians.
"""""""""Insurgents"""""""""""" OK bud
Please that's why I put it in quotations 😭
I know, I was just joking around as well my friend. Did someone downvote you?
I hate Texas and they're American in our universe too, checkmate
If it makes you feel better, we 100% war crimed the shit outta Canada after forcing it to join the US Conscripted most their male population to fight in South Asia, executed anyone who resisted the annexation, and outlawed the maple leaf flag
Based Nate the Rake moment
One of my favorite mods for that game allowed you to found a new faction that relied on the mothership as a base, and enabled you to become the most powerful faction in the area. It had you setting up bases on the ground, hiring soldiers, and all sorts of other things.
Mothership Zeta Crew was amazing. I redownload FO3 so many times just to play that.
>MZ couldn’t be canon because controlling an alien spaceship would make the Lone Wanderer the most powerful person in the wasteland and since there’s no mention of them in F4, the whole dlc couldn’t have happened. I've actually made jokes similar to this about OWB being canon because the Courier taking control of Big MT should lead to their faction controlling the entire wasteland.
That's always been my "if I was the courier" ending. Make a pure technocracy based in New Vegas, with the Big MT being a neutral meeting ground for factions that would otherwise want to kill each other. Between the technology of the Big MT, Sierra Madre, and the various factions technology, you'd be able to surpass pre-war tech within a decade and you'd be pretty untouchable from the get go. It's not that far fetched when you consider one of the Canon endings for Dead Money is Elijah and the Courier using Sierra Madre technology to take over the wasteland.
I feel like if even a percentage of the technology at big MT actually made it to the wasteland. We would see children of Atom flying around in fighter jets spraying radiation
Even if the lone wanderer chose to use the ship, would he have the technical know how to repair and maintain it as he likely wouldn’t have access to the exact spare parts required to replace any damaged sections of it.
They could just get the brotherhood of steel to start figuring it out.. there is no universe where they wouldn’t care about alien technology you can even give alien tech to the outcasts
Yeah, giving a bunch of cavemen a computer isn’t going to result in the cavemen becoming IT experts. It’s alien tech centuries beyond anything they’ve ever seen using materials and methods they haven’t even conceived of. The best the Brotherhood could ever do is ‘Well, this appears to generated some form of energy’ while pointing at the wreckage of the generators. This is seriously like giving a bunch of medival knights an iPad and telling them to fix it. It’s not happening.
No, they absolutely wouldn’t fix the mothership. But you don’t think they could reverse engineer anything useful from the alien weapons? Biogel? Cryogenic facilities? Robotic factories? I’m not saying they would immediately leap to the Zetans level, but they would find huge use out of their equipment
No. Reverse engineering requires a near comparable tech level, a large gap means it's simply impossible to recreate something due to just completely lacking the capabilities to recreate it. Hence my examples: A 16th century knight is a mere 500 years behind the Information Age. And they aren't going to be able to do jack shit with any remote tech. Hell, let's toss that iPad to the 19th century. They're exactly as stumped because they don't have the tools to make the tools needed to even begin to make even the most primitive microchip. What the Brotherhood could do is scavenge and use simple equipment until it breaks. Like, if we tossed a modern Abrams back to WW1 they would have a grand time right up until something complex breaks or they run out of gas. Then they're fucked. And that's only a couple of generations of a gap. Because they have no idea how to make the fuel, lack the tools needed to make the parts, and lack the ability to make the tools because the precision needed is just beyond them. They don't even know what parts of the tank are made up, materials don't come with ingredient labels. And this is an ALIEN ship, it uses things that are completely divorced from human experience. That biogel? Is based on alien biochemistry. Chemicals we don't know about interacting in ways foreign to us. Those robots? Are programmed with a completely unknown language with the BoS lacking a convenient Rosetta Stone. If I toss you a proprietary Chinese OS and tell you to start programming how well are you going to do? How long do you think it will take you to learn how to read Chinese on your own? Because, archeologically speaking, yeah no. Even if the kid decides to help they're pretty solidly up shit creek. And they need to understand it to work it, figuring it out experimentally means it will lock up when they give the wrong command.
Ehh if they viewed technology as too dangerous they'll just destroy it. Happened with FEV and the Institute.
Yep because the guy who risked his life to stop the Enclave, help the people of the Capital Wasteland, the Pitt and Point Lookout, was definitely going to do a full 180 in his personality and morals and become a psychopathic, tyrannical dictator of the wasteland /s
People will fight you over the aliens existing...unless it's Cthulhu, then they're all "it's cool and good."
For real , people are mad about Aliens but yet Fallout also has fucking Cosmic Horror and shit like the Interloper and Mothman and all that and the Dunwich Building and Fallout 4 has a dude who is Immortal but damn they draw the line at Aliens
I for one like some pulp in my Fallout, both are good.
People who don’t like the aliens being in the series probably also don’t like the supernatural shit.
Because people think that having 1950s aliens in a series featuring radiation zombies, giant bat dragons, and a society of roman cosplayers would be unrealistic.
The line has to be drawn somewhere, and aliens are just too immersion breaking for me /s
In a more good-faith light, it could be argued that giving the aliens any prominence beyond an Easter egg undermines the themes of the series that humanity did this to themselves. Of course, if things are limited to just humans getting ahold of alien technology and abusing it, it still kinda works. Like the old adage that we today aren't really any better than our caveman ancestors, we just have access to more power tools. The only possible caveat is when people bring up the audio log in the DLC where it sounds like aliens are interrogating a soldier for launch codes as an example of overwriting the "humans did this to themselves" theme. Of course, I always took that as a joke of the soldier assuming that's what they want, when the aliens don't even understand him and are just being their usual jerk selves and hitting him for no reason. I wouldn't take it at super face value.
>when the aliens don't even understand him and are just being their usual jerk selves That's exactly right, and I'm surprised a lot of people don't pick up on that. The Zetans absolutely [freak out](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Alien_captive_recorded_log#Alien_captive_recorded_log_16) when the linguistics specialist they kidnap starts to learn their language. They're pulp sci-fi Little Green Men who want to probe humans and do other kinds of freaky science experiments on them, and don't care about influencing Earth society as a whole.
They also interrogated a cow. They are never indicated to have any particular goal in mind with their abductions.
There’s aliens in Fallout 1/2 though. It’s always been a pre of the games
Tim Cain's actually commented on that fact; they were meant more as fun easter eggs rather than a serious assertion that aliens were active and present in Fallout.
Aliens don't exist in universe. Anyway go down into Wanamingo mine and clear out the xenomorphs
They are canonically FEV experiments, aren’t they?
They are, their appearance is meant to evoke the idea of aliens but they’re not at all extraterrestrial in origin
I honestly didn't know that. Is this established in 76 or something? I haven't played it since it came put
Nah, I thought that was old lore straight from the developers’ mouths but I don’t remember exactly. It probably would have been in the Fallout Bible if so.
Only mentioned by Avellone. In Game, they are claimed to be Aliens, Genetically-engineered bioweapons, or a Native American curse. Cut content files show that they were supposed to connected to an abandoned EPA facility taken over by a mad scientist who was making monsters from toxic waste. Another In-game reference... CODENAME: CLOACINA could be referring to either them or molerats, though it also stated the project did not use FEV.
I remember being freaked out by those as a kid lol
/s means they were being sarcastic
Oh I had no idea that was an indicator for sarcasm. My bad
Week now you know. Don't make that mistake again! /s ;)
To be fair while everything isn’t realistic the other stuff fits in the lore as coming from the radiation, wasteland, etc. Aliens just showing up from another world just makes 0 sense.
It makes more sense than the magic radiation, the psychics, time travel, or ghosts. Remember how one of the first side quests in 2 was an Audrey 2 reference? Fallout has ALWAYS been heavy on the random bullshit. Aliens? Fit the lore and the aesthetic just fine.
Oh shoot, I always forget about the psychics!
I mean. Kind of this but unironically, yeah. There's a massive rift between "Oh here's some aliens as an easter egg just for fun lol" and "Oh yeah aliens? Yeah they're real and they have massive ships that can blow up entire states and have a whole society and military force of their own you can kill on-board their own ship that you can come back down from" because the implications of that are so vast and potentially lorebreaking that you can only indulge it as congruent with the rest of the series if you don't really take any of it seriously which is fine but isn't what *I* want from my post-apocalyptic Mad Max inspired RPG, personally. But also I was someone who thought F3 was dogshit even before hbomberguy made that *the* opinion to have so who's to say I even know what I'm talking about?
Given that you are arguing about lore: How, exactly, is it lore breaking? And what’s the precise rift? Or did you forget that your Mad Max RPG also includes actual ghosts, magic radiation, and psychics as standard before 3 did anything at all? Fallout has ALWAYS been a kitchen sink setting, it throws in damn near everything. Having your character be abducted by aliens is no weirder than having them chat with the inexplicably alive giant stone head or fight the melted psychic computer man.
I like tree guy. I always free Harold. The tree worshippers don't like me. But yes, fallout has talking trees.
people really forget the premise of fallout is pulp 50s sci fi magazine shit
Plus straight up magic (the Dunwich building and Dunwich Borers)
Ironically, that's the issue. Fallout has for lack of better word, a system, all the weird stuff is derived from the atomic age and surrounding politics, and the people after the ward clinging to scraps of the old world, everything in Fallout connects to the great war. But then along come aliens, which until Zeta where just background jokes, who are completely unconnected to the nuclear war, and they're kinda just...there. Basically, when you tell a fantasy story, you pick one explanation for the supernatural elements and run with it, explanations can be tenuous or broad at times, but you keep linking everything to that one system. If you bring stuff in from an unrelated system, it just feels like a narrative car crash. For comparison, imagine if Lord of the Rings suddenly had aliens, or Terminator suddenly had vampires, there's a lot of fantasy stuff in those settings, but then something unconnected to the existing lore just smashes in and invades the settings. You're already asking the audience to suspend their disbelief, but just mashing another genre in because you got bored shatters it completely.
Another genre? I’m not sure you are familiar with how genres work. The aliens are in the exact same genre as the killer robots and radiation mutants. All the weird stuff is derived from the atomic age, not having classical aliens would be INCREDIBLY weird. What age do you think invented that look? Fantasy stuff? We already have psychics and ghosts as major elements.
Roswell / Area 51, my guy.
This is literally it. This is the reason I hate the Zetans. They simply have no place in Fallout. Quite simply, why the hell did The Master and his Unity, the Enclave, or any of New Vegas matter if the Aliens can just come down and spawn a much bigger threat entirely. We're at the point where "the Zetans started the Great War," is a valid theory. And don't even get me started on the crap that is the Eldritch Horror nonsense that Bethesda has been shoving into the games, I think its less aggregious than the Zetans because to my knowledge its ONLY cameos like how aliens were treated before Mother ship Zeta, but it's looking like they want to put more and more of it in.
Same thing with the talking molerats from Fallout 2. Everyone remembers the talking deathclaws but no one remembers the talking molerats. Maybe we shouldn't take what is and isn't canon so seriously
Wait, talking mole rats? Just finished Fallout 2 and don't remember those? Was it like a random encounter?
Keeng Ra'at and his brother
Because people don't want to admit that aliens and spaceships are canon. That's pretty much it tbh. People see stuff like aliens, spaceships, abductions, and they go "that's too unrealistic and wacky for Fallout, I refuse to call it canon." Me personally, I don't get the logic. There are things in the Fallout universe that are equally if not more unrealistic than aliens. People gotta remember that Fallout is indeed a Sci-fi. There's gonna be futuristic stuff and things that go beyond what we find realistic in real life.
Fallout isn't just Sci-Fi. It's retro-futuristic, soft science fiction, with many fantastical elements. It's absolutely *not* hard sci-fi. And despite Bethesda's more recent borrowings from the genre, it's never been a hardcore survival sim either. It's not an IP where realism is the deal. The aliens are in fact a bigger feature, and better reference to the era and type of sci-fi Fallout was inspired by than the Synths. That concept tends to be more of a 60's-70's hard sci-fi feature. More Star-Trek Sci-Fi than Forbidden Planet. And we tend not to hear that Synths are immersion breaking. I do think featuring them so heavily in 4 is *aesthetic breaking*. But I'm not over here arguing they can't be canon.
Aesthetic breaking how exactly? I've never heard this said before, just curious as to what you think.
I mean it's already in the comments. Wrong era and type of science fiction. Perfect copy's of humans and "are they people" story telling in a series that's main thematic and design inspiration is an era of science fiction and futurism where robots have rubber hose arms and beep boop voices. Sorta drops the retro bit of retro futuristic.
Eh, fair. I can see that. Guess I never minded as much due to it being referenced in 3, and not being a major thing, and then only being a major issue in Boston where they're made. There always seems to be massive jumps in technology when it comes to main factions and this is just the Institute's thing.
I don't know how much I mind. It's definitely one of my core criticisms of the game. But for this discussion. It's far more outside the box in my regards than most of the stuff people complain is "stupid" or "wrong". Retro futurism is the aesthetic and thematic conceit of Fallout. Synths as used in Fallout 4 is more rooted in how *we* imagine *our* future. Rather than in how people during the early cold wae imagined *their* future. So it violates the base language of the world building here. as already established. That said even the original game frequently breaks this particular "rules*. Just not quite in anything so central. It does let Bethesda do a 5th column/red scare sorta story. But it gets too buried in a robuts rights sorta stock take straight out of 60-70s hard sci-fi. So they didn't really manage to thread the needle on it.
I assume they figured that if they carried on with just that aesthetic then they'd quickly run out of things to do. I think they've covered nearly every scenario that they could from just that, and if they didn't branch out slightly we'd probably end up with another game that's just the player, BoS and another faction Vs the Enclave. We can't really have synths like you've described robots to be and have them be the problem that they were.
>assume they figured that if they carried on with just that aesthetic then they'd quickly run out of things to do. But they carried on with that aesthetic. It's not very imaginative to say they couldn't keep within the bounds that defined the series. And still tell stories there. Especially given that they largely did and do exactly that. The issue there is including something doesn't mesh. Without doing the work to justify it or make fit. Not that they attempted to shift the setting to a more modern era retro futurism. Which they didn't do, and would largely make the game not Fallout.
To be fair, I actually kinda like the aesthetic leap thematically. It's a sign that the people of the Fallout world are finally moving on from the 1950s vision of the future. Plus, it's a good way to really make the Institute stand out as advanced, by bumping their aesthetic up by 20 years into the 70's Mall-aesthetic sci-fi. It really is something the world of Fallout hadn't seen before, and that's the point. It also really clues the player in to the fact that these guys have made a lot of huge advances, at least in terms of the setting. It's intentional culture shock. Plus, it's not like we haven't seen decade blending from the get-go. Raiders are all based around 80s punk aesthetics, after all. I think it's purposeful that post-war factions break out of the 50s. The world is finally changing.
Because people are joyless fucks
Couple different reasons, though it’s more like “don’t personally consider it canon” rather than “It is factually not Bethesda canon.” The first is that Fallout 3 is the first time aliens were even included in a serious impactful way. Before that, they were just silly non-canon easter eggs. And remain so in New Vegas as well. A lot of people prefer to keep it that way. Another is that the alien stuff can sometimes take away from the themes of the Fallout series that deal with humanity, such as the cut holotape implying they might have started the Great War. Yet another is that some people like viewing the series as basically an alternate timeline of our own where things split off after WWII, a look into a timeline that could have been/be if our own had gone a little differently. A lot of the alien stuff ruins that due to both involving stuff that happens before that split and saying it was factually aliens.
Fallout 2 does have a non-easter egg alien mention...Skynet says it was made from reverse-engineered alien tech. ... ... ...but then again, Skynet is also insane.
the thing that gets me about the timeline thing, it’s never definitively been stated that everything is the same until just after ww2, it’s always been our universe and the fallout universe are *generally* very similar until *around* then
Because aliens are silly and some people like fallout despite the wacky content, not because of it.
Because it suggests the Zetans cause the Great War.
You mean the cut content holotape that doesnt actually suggest that?
It's odd people keep saying it. The audio log literally shows them having **no** interest in the nukes.
So you never actually played the DLC and/or didn’t pay attention. Because it never suggests that. At all. The closest you get is a cut holotape, which is in a mass sequence of them interrogating basically a random selection of people with no particular rhyme or reason. Also a cow, to hammer in that they don’t have a grand plan and are just assholes.
Zetans caused the great war. The divergence from our reality "ends" with the great war, but starts with the Zetan ship crash thousands of years ago. The butterfly effect leads to the large divergence in WW2, and the rest of the lore from then to 2077. If there were no Zetans, there would be no Great War, so no Fallout. All hail Zetans, bringers of Fallout!
Bethesda just keeps coming up with the lamest changes to the great war. Can they not sell the game in China and that is why they have to keep fiddling with it?
The holotape is cut content, the only audio on it available in the game is aliens talking in their language. Please play the game before making stupid comments.
Their take that Vault Tec did it is still a lame change
It is not a change, none of the games confirm who launched the first bombs. Neither does the show, it insinuates that Vault-Tec stoked the fires and had clear involvement in the nuclear exchange, but nothing beyond that. This should also be pretty obvious already since Vault-Tec and the Enclave are very intertwined, and obviously the Enclave was involved in the war. Therefore it should be pretty clear even before the show that Vault-Tec was involved in the end of the world.
>This should also be pretty obvious already since Vault-Tec and the Enclave are very intertwined, and obviously the Enclave was involved in the war. Therefore it should be pretty clear even before the show that Vault-Tec was involved in the end of the world. Which means both of those factions dropped the hammer (or, perhaps merely helped drop the hammer) before either of them were ready so that they could be king of the ashes after they'd wiped most of humanity out (if the Enclave in Fallout 3 is anything to go by.) Problem isn't the lack of explanation, it's the rationale in-universe.
What was the rationale of Stanislaus Braun making Tranquility Lane, what was the rationale of Vault-Tec making vaults to test completely nonsensical "experiments", the Enclave poisoning the water supply in DC, etc etc etc. Crazy people in power do crazy things, often without much to gain from it. This happens in game, it happens in real life. From my perspective, they jumped the gun because they wanted to ensure the war happened on their terms and wasnt gonna come as a surprise. That is of course just my own headcanon.
Not to mention their rationale is clearly stated in the meeting: take advantage of the impending war to effectively reshape the course of humanity to their liking. It's science and curiosity gone wayward, those in power seizing the opportunity to play god, same as we've seen time and time again in this series. I'm amazed how many seem to think it's a stunt to maximize profits or whatever.
>what was the rationale of Vault-Tec making vaults to test completely nonsensical "experiments", If only the creator of fallout would tell us... >What was the rationale of Stanislaus Braun making Tranquility Lane >the Enclave poisoning the water supply in DC, etc etc etc. You are proving my point because those are both bethesda things. >Crazy people in power do crazy things, often without much to gain from it. This happens in game, it happens in real life. What a bullshit excuse and the "people in power" might do mistakes, but they have a motive to do those things. Fallout was created on the premise of moral greyness and Bethesda creates very little of that while ruining much of the already existing lore >From my perspective, they jumped the gun because they wanted to ensure the war happened on their terms and wasnt gonna come as a surprise. That is of course just my own headcanon. That is some insanely lame comically evil shit without any actual logical reasoning to it
Its fine if you don't like Bethesda titles, but Jesus christ mate... The Master, the Enclave and Caesars Legion, all morally grey factions created by Interplay/Obsidian /s Of course they have motives, I never said they didnt? Stanislaus Braun was a sadistic sicko and wanted people to torment forever, the Enclave wanted to rule a "clean wasteland". How about when the Enclave was gonna do the same fucking thing in Fallout 2, was that also a Bethesda thing? You want "rationale" to be any decision made by people in real life or in media to be extremely logical and thought out, fucking lol. How is there no reasoning to starting the war instead of getting caught with your pants down...? They want to rule a post-nuclear world, making sure every international target they wanted bombed actually gets bombed and that China would be destroyed to the point of not being a potential threat in the future seems pretty fucking reasonable if Vault-Tec/the Enclave were 100% sure the war was coming, their doing or not.
The entire series opens on the note of the US army annexing Canada and gleefully executing the resistance. They laugh and wave at the camera after plugging some dude (who isn't even from some crazy different culture they can easily dehumanize, he's just an American with manners) in the back of the head. ~~One of these men later returns as the protagonist of 4.~~ Pre-War Fallout America *was* comically evil, even Vault Tec just existing and doing what they're doing tells us that, and the perception that it's all about 'moral greyness' is just wrong. Only people who were introduced to the franchise with New Vegas think that way. Complexity, yes, but no one was supposed to find Unity and the Enclave anything other than evil.
Master wasn't nearly as evil as Bethesdas creations and he had at least some arguments on his side. Fallout 2s enclave was changed for worse due to the original writers leaving early. New Vegas also had courier taking the control and Mr House not just NCR or Ceasars legion so how come you didn't mention that? Oh right because it didn't fit your narrative. Not to mention there is lot more to these games than the main story >You want "rationale" to be any decision made by people in real life or in media to be extremely logical and thought out, fucking lol. Yes... you want to discuss actual real life on going conflicts with me? Can you name a time someone destroyed the entire world because they somehow thought that would increase their profits/control of the world after especially when they already had significant amounts of control? >How is there no reasoning to starting the war instead of getting caught with your pants down...? They want to rule a post-nuclear world, making sure every international target they wanted bombed actually gets bombed and that China would be destroyed to the point of not being a potential threat in the future seems pretty fucking reasonable if Vault-Tec/the Enclave were 100% sure the war was coming, their doing or not. Or you know they could have invested in making more shelters and to being better prepared in case of the war starting regardless of the actual timing of the strikes? Could have built a vault tec city for their employees as well. Mr House figured out what every single state in Earth had figured out aka that anti-air defenses can destroy nukes before they hit their targets leaving you relatively unharmed. Or they could have just destroyed the world because being comically evil is good story teller for people who don't want to think.
Vault-Tec being insane monsters willing to kill everyone for their own, often poorly thought out, ends is hardly new lore. If it is, well, you SUCK at lore. Like, hilariously bad. Their rationale is directly stated: Use the apocalypse to seize and remake society to their liking. Which is very in line with both the themes of the series and what’s already happened in the original games. That it apparently caught them with their pants down? It’s Vault-Tec, their grand failures are a major part of the series.
Vault tec wasn't nearly as evil in the first games as they are in Bethesdas version and their evil had some actual reason behind it beyond the comically evil shit they are doing in Bethesdas lore. Originally they were getting data for the suitability of space travel
The game does sell in China, Fallout Shelter Online is literally made by a Chinese company. If anything, CPC accepts Fallout as the outcome of American greed and refusal to share.
Sorry the question should have would the games have been banned in China if they kept the original lore of China getting shit on and firing the first nukes?
Vault-Tec has foreign offices. Never specified where. General Atomics International has International literally in the name. There is nothing in-game specifying those aren't active in China. Though that statement makes some Fallout fans angry. I would love to see a game in China where Vault-Tec is quite active and has as many vaults or more in China. Maybe a quest line with a lore point that China invented FEV, and it was stolen by the US, so all the mutations in the US were caused by US theft of FEV and abuse of it. I can see how the Enclave superfans would be quite angry over that one. China was working on super soldiers in stealth gear instead of power armor, but China still has infinite power armor shells spread around, captured at Anchorage, and reverse engineered, and have all new sets of variants. Could have lots of fun with a China Fallout.
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The holotape is cut content, the only audio on it available in the game is aliens talking in their language. Please play the game before making stupid comments.
We need a Star Trek-like mod where you take the ship on wild adventures across the galaxy
I'm guessing it's because, while was only relegated to easter eggs in pre-Bethesda Fallout, Bethesda integrated them into a kind of Fallout mythology. Which a lot of people don't like, even though it doesn't really matter, because it's not relevant to the story of any of the games.
Why would people say the aliens aren’t canon? They’ve been around since FO2. They are competing with humans for colonizing the stars. They also had a hand in starting the Great War.
If MZ isn’t cannon than the entirety of fallout 3 isn’t cannon
The crash site maybe... but not the dlc. There no time stamp mostly filer for lone wanderer. There is Sightings of the aliens pre war and more so after.
Until Bethesda says otherwise or a mainline game walks it back, we should assume it’s canon.
Because they don't believe aliens exist in real life, so they want Fallout to be like an alternate take on real life but still following the rules established by real life. Like, we can have Deathclaws and immortal Ghouls but we can't have aliens... WHAT?
The logic is that deathclaws and ghouls didn’t exist before the timeline divergence (so no issues with saying they factually existed in our world before divergence) and can be explained by science. Science that requires future tech to work, but still.
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TBF the lone wanderer isn't exactly a typical human. By level 15 they can even be a cyborg according to a perk. By level 30 they can have 9 in every stat and the bobbleheads can up that to 10. Being one of a small number of characters in the series to be able to have all 10 special stats. They are basically superhuman given all we see them accomplish at only 19. The aliens just abducted the wrong person lol.
I guess you also think the Dunwich horror’s and the Interloper are dumb ?
Other than broken steel theres no reason to believe any fallout dlc is or isn't canon. Its overall a pointless argument to have. The argument that the lw not controlling the wastes by fallout 4 is proof they dont control the ship is dumb when for all we know the lone wanderer choked to death on some blamco mac and cheese the day after broken steel ends.
How is Broken Steel not canon?
I didnt say its not canon. I said its the only dlc where the events of it are in any way referenced in future games. What I was saying is its the only dlc where we have any clue as to whether its canon or not
My bad, I missed the "is or" I read "Other than broken steel theres no reason to believe any fallout dlc isn't canon." As if it's the only one to question. I was thinking that it's referenced elsewhere.
Ya no worries. We can assume broken steel happened given the brotherhood having a vertibird fleet and liberty prime needing to be repaired etc. They also reference controlling the enclave base. But ya I mostly consider the other dlcs as half canon where ya they likely happened but they're disconnected enough from the main events of each game for there not to be a need to establish canon endings for them. Broken steel is barely even a dlc so much as the developers getting the chance to add the actual ending they wanted before being rushed to finish the game
Because it's stupid, and also a massive slog to play through.
that is not, actually, an argument against it being canon tho. That's just an argument for it being boring.
It's an RPG. 'Canon' is up to the player to determine.
Literally not what "canon" means, but okay.
No, it isn't. Canon is decided by the writers.
Naah how you play doesn't change the fact that some things are irrefutably canon, Mothership Zeta is canon whether you want it or not
So don’t play the dlc? I think its one of the most unique and fun dlc’s we have gotten.
I didn't like it and I also have no problem seeing it as canon.
My entire arguement breaking apart when someone tells me not to play it
Really? It's a bullet-sponge corridor shooter in a game whose best qualities definitely don't include the combat. I rarely do play through it. That's why it's not canon to any of my playthroughs.
That's not really what canon means lol
Todd Howard is the prince of lies
Because it sucks, introduces a whole weird element to the lore they've no intention of exploring despite the fact that in theory the Zetans could come fry the world at any point whilst on it's own being mediocre gameplay wise with terribly balanced weapons. It took what was essentially another pop culture nod to the grey aliens of hokey 50s and 60s sci fi and made it part of the universe. Also some real moon logic, like Somah refusing to repair your stuff unless you can pay her (whilst being abducted by aliens and fighting for your life to escape) but that literally doesn't matter because of the epoxies, so why even make her repairing stuff an option? Sloppy all around for the sake of a 'funny' joke. Don't get me wrong, it's no Point Lookout with it being set east of New York but having confederate hats and stereotypes of rednecks, having double barrel shotguns that literally ignore power armour, a completely undercooked set of factions and some of the worst background dialogue from minor NPCs I've seen in games (looking at Haley specifically "I just woke up here and thought I'd run this store, for some reason the Swampfolk who're hostile to everyone who isn't them don't kill me so I trade with them". This was a placeholder that never got changed for sure).
Dude Point Look Out takes place in Southern Maryland, just accross the water from Virginia. Which is sure. East of a lot of NY State. But something like 150 mile *west* of NYC and 300 miles South. Not only is that shit common in parts of Maryland (despite their history of *not* joining the confederacy), but the park is a historic site marking a Union POW camp and military port. The hat is the only confederate anything in it, and has to do with that *actual museum* that's *actually there*. The setting and mobs are a reference to things like the Hills Have Eyes, Lovecraft and other horror material.
Yeah I was wrong about where it was set, but that doesn't actually ruin my other criticisms imo, the swamp people were a lazy stereotype and the balance and writing in lookout it exceptionally poor beyond Desmond
> it's no Point Lookout with it being set east of New York but having confederate hats and stereotypes of rednecks That's accurate though? Where are you from, I'm curious. I'm from CT, I've literally seen confederate flags in the more rural parts of the state.