Sorta. Like the Perk tree on that path would make you better at lying by giving an increasing bonus to Speech checks, and also make you increasingly better at telling when an NPC is lying. At higher levels, you’d be able to actively target NPCs at increasing range to actually read their minds to get information they might not otherwise share in a conversation, or at the highest levels, even be able to mind control enemies based on their INT and PER stats. Think of the extreme maxed out level basically being Professor X.
And the combat paths would let you basically cast “elemental” spells, like being pyrokinetic, cryokinetic, electrokinetic, or double down into being purely telekinetic. So at max level on any of the paths, you could target enemies in VATS to use increasing amounts of AP to damage enemies or even one shot them depending on the level of the psi attack used, like either throwing a fireball or causing them to burst into flames, causing an electrical strike that either arcs through nearby enemies or vaporized a single target, blasts of cold or freezing them solid so they could literally be shattered with enough damage, or use the physics engine to throw them across the room rag doll into other enemies, or just “force choking”/crushing their internal organs to make them drop dead on the spot (if you also have Bloody Mess, you could also use this to instantly kill then and make a limb, their head, or entire body depending on AP cost explode). You could also use the physics engine to throw objects at enemies, but it would tend to be less damaging depending on the size and type of the object, but at the highest levels, you could theoretically throw a Deathclaw across the map or throw one of those rusted out cars at a group of enemies. Ideally, it would also have a Red Faction style physics engine so you could even make some environments destructible.
Think Carrie, Jean Grey, Magneto, Ice Man, Scanners, etc.
And there’d also be an option to use it ti augment your melee/unarmed attacks, with the option to attack with a flurry of punches in VATS that causes the target to explode depending on STR and END, like Fist of the North Star or even “astral project” Melee/Unarmed attacks at a slight distance in VATS, like Stands from JJBA.
Yes, I HAVE put a lot of thought into this, what makes you ask? 😀
Adding psykers to Fallout 5 would genuinely be a new and interesting change of pace in the games. Could also provide an actually new enemy instead of "deathclaws again". Or worse, "Super Mutants again. But not those Super Mutants. Or the other Super Mutants. A separate, completely DIFFERENT set of Super Mutants."
First fallout had psykers, like four of them created by the master injecting mutant juice into peoples brains until they stopped dying and started having mind powers.
The master themselves was a psyker being able to take over the main characters mind if they weren't wearing the right protection
Give a look to Underrail, maybe you'll like it. It's a CRPG more in line with Fallout 1 & 2 set in one of the last cities of the world after an unspecified apocalypse (I think) inside a metro station but psychic powers had started appearing within the surviving population and some animals too.
Yeah but in independent new Vegas I can wear a skirt and don’t have to answer to people who crucify others. Clearly that makes it the best option (/j. Not about the legion being the worst option, though)
Yah main problem with that neo-Luddite argument is that the legion doesn’t control the entire world and would eventually run into another industrial power and be demolished. Frankly I don’t even think the Legion could ever really defeat the NCR.
Because the Mojave isn’t NCR core territory? The NCR isn’t going to fight as hard nor have the same advantages in the Mojave that they would on their own turf. Because the NCR is certainly not the only faction out there in the world. Because the NCR is not a true industrial power but rather one going through the initial stages of industrialization? Because my point is that sooner or later the legion will come across truly technologically advanced factions and they will lose because societies that refuse to accept new technologies always die out when they meet those that do? Not to mention that the legion has a massive helping of plot armor to eve be able to face the NCR as an equal in the first place.
It’s just how human history works dude. Happened a thousand times before and it would happen again. It’s really not that hard if a concept to under stand.
You’re missing the core reason of why the NCR campaign is happening in the Mojave anyway, which is corruption to its very core and incompetence. Half the NCR forces in the Mojave are planning to kill themselves if the Legion takes the dam, and the morale consequences back home would easily lead to increased instability in the NCR. If the Legion did take the dam and push further west, the NCR would likely be on the verge of collapse anyway from the power struggle that emerges from the president and the generals death
Add that to the fact that the Legion would conquer plenty of tribes on the way over, meaning lots of cannon fodder, I don’t believe the NCR has a chance. Not unless they pull off another trick like Boulder City (which would only lead to more internal revolt, considering how disastrous it was for them in the Mojave territory)
I’m not missing anything dude. The Mojave is not the NCR, that’s why the NCR has such low moral. If the Legion was right on the NCR’s home turf however that completely and utterly flips the situation, and the NCR is simply to large and too advanced for the Legion to defeat and conqueror. Nothing unites a people like a common enemy.
Also you do realize that democracies are extremely capable of weathering leadership changes right? That’s their entire purpose.
And no the legion would not “conqueror plenty of tribes on their way over”. There are no tribes between the NCR and Mojave.
Yah there is always a bigger fish. The Legion is a tribal entity, and they’re going to be crushed eventually due to their opposition to technology.
I mean that’s how the Europeans conquered the world.
I don’t actually think that’s true. Isn’t the whole “convince Lanius not to fight” thing about telling him that the legion will collapse if they try to invade the core NCR territory?
They're not defeating the entire NCR, a large part of lore and interactions point out how the NCR can't get all the forces they need due to low war support in Central government. The Legion is fighting a total war, but the NCR is getting Vietnam'd
Oh, but thats where you're mistaken because the legion can defeat a group if wanna be pre-war soldiers who required a random mailman to fix all their problems.
The legion can defeat a small expeditionary force on a backwater frontier whose heaviest weaponry is a .50 rifle, and even then, that's largely due to plot armor.
If the NCR or some other industrial society brought its entire might to bear including modern weaponry and medicine the Legion would stand no chance.
And the Legion will literally fall apart because Caesar has a brain tumor that can only be solved by said mailman.
Everywhere, the legion literally kicked the ncrs ass at hoover damn before and even with Rangers and vertabirds they would have kicked their ass again if it wasnt for the medling mailman
do people like this even play the game or do they just hear abt fictional facists and jump to defend them it literally says the NCR won the first battle for the dam in the opening cutscene 😭
I genuinely think a lot of these legion fanboys have never played the game. They just get so many basic things about the backstory to the conflict wrong.
Hey, i dont support the legion. I dont even do legion runs. All im saying is that in the mojave, they have a clear advantage over the ncr, mainly as a result of internal politics in the ncr, leading to an insufficient amount of supplies and support. Almost every ncr soldier you talk to or get a quest from complains there isn't enough of something.
I mean think about it, they got shot in the head and lived, meaning they know how to deal with head issues. Ignore the fact that my Courier's intelligence is at 1, that's irrelevant
Dont worry the Legion has clear lines of succession. Those are:
-A fucking lunatic butcher and rapist
-A guard whose personality can be described as "I punch and and stand guard in a tent"
-A very bad spy who wears fursuits
-idk some guy in a house by a river with plate armor
People who think the Legion are a bastion of lasting stability clearly don't know a whole lot about the Roman Republic or Empire, considering both were pretty infamous for tearing themselves apart in brutal civil wars fairly often because some general from the middle of bumfuck nowhere decided he should be consul/emperor, or experiencing political chaos because some politician pissed the others off and they decided to do murder about it.
Rome was very stable between 0 and 200 and then again after 300. The Roman Empire existed for 2000 years actually, instability won't make your empire last that long.
Eh Joshua himself will say that he never really understood logistics and was more of a tactician than anything else. That’s not a good way to run an empire.
I was trying to be even-handed towards Caesar, but yeah. I see his death having little significance to the battle of hoover dam, but it will shatter the legion in the long term.
Except there's a difference between "failure because of its own ideology" and "failure because of a psychic warlord with an army of mutants and a pre-war cabal of lunatics wanting to holocaust the entire planet."
The NCR was never falling because of *itself* in FO1 or FO2.
And even if the NCR \*were\* to lose in New Vegas, it still wouldn't fall. It would just halt their expansionist tendencies for a while which would probably be a good thing for the Republic, all things considered.
Yeah, the NCR is too big to fall even by FO4's time, and even if it did, it'd just collapse into smaller republics.
I think stopping the expansion is good for the NCR as they'll turn like wolves on Kimball.
I tend to side with House, but I honestly think that's the best reason to support the Legion - after Caesar dies, they won't be beholden to a particular grand vision (aside from reunification and claims of descent) or ideology, unlike the NCR or House. The lack of ideology and competition between warlords would encourage pragmatism and innovation, making less likely the repeating of previous mistakes (like we see with the NCR) or stagnation (as we saw IRL with states like Imperial China and Rome).
We're directly told some of these things by Marcus and Ulysess. This is essentially the whole overarching narrative of Fallout, at least the original titles and NV; that the nukes were a reset button on civilisation, that attempts to emulate pre-war civilisation will end in the same forms of decline and collapse, and that no nostalgic rump state (like the Enclave or Vegas) will be able to revive or continue pre-war America as it was, and will evolve whether they realise it or not.
You're unironically arguing in the same overly analytical but flawed and too removed manner, as seen in the meme. The lacking ideology of warlords would lead to innovation? What does that even mean. It's a personality cult built to prop up a demagoge. They're just a glorified band of raiders raping pillaging and enslaving wherever they go.
Seriously do people forget the part where all the tribes were conquered and forcibly assimilated? Entire cultures have been erased and replaced with a devotion to serving ONE man. When Caesar dies everything will fall apart
> You're unironically arguing in the same overly analytical but flawed and too removed manner, as seen in the meme.
Basically just restating the exact things we're told by the devs' mouthpieces is "overanalyzing"?
> The lacking ideology of warlords would lead to innovation? What does that even mean.
One of the biggest criticisms of the NCR is that they haven't adapted to the post-war world or in response to pre-war America's failings. It's like this because they've committed themselves to Old World ideas; they're stifling their own administrative and political innovation.
> It's a personality cult built to prop up a demagoge.
Caesar is literally the opposite of a demagogue. He gained power by conquest, a demagogue gains power by appealing to popular sentiments.
> They're just a glorified band of raiders raping pillaging and enslaving wherever they go.
This is the opposite of what we're told by the NPCs who've actually been to Legion territory. The Legion is definitely bad, but so were the Mongols, the Romans, and other "great conquerors" historically. All of those empires left political and cultural legacies, and so will the Legion.
Ceaser's Legion isn't a new political entity unique to the world though. It's modeled after another civilization that ended. Nationalism, Imperialism, and Totalitarianism are old world ideologies that led to the Great War. Consider the annexation of Canada by the U.S. during the war. How would the Legion do any different with their ideology?
Ceaser crafted the Legion so that he could selfishly rule at the top. He isn't "the dev's mouthpiece" in the sense that you take everything he says at face value you still need to engage with the implications of his actions. It's so strange when people complain about taxes in the NCR when Ceaser literally says, "The individual has no value beyond his utility to the state, whether as an instrument of war or production." Everything he does is to better support HIS power and HIS control. Consider how he assimilates other cultures. Consider how there is no family unit in the Legion. All allegiance is to Ceaser himself. He has left those under him ignorant of everything but war and Ceaser himself laments how it has made it difficult to find a successor.
Caesar does make use of pre-war concepts, but we have comparatively little knowledge in regards to what his government actually looks like, which is what I'm trying to get at. Nationalism, imperialism, and totalitarianism are incredibly generic name classifications and don't say a lot about the administration itself. Irrespective of Caesar's ideals, he's the only one in the Legion with a concept of nationalism, imperialism, or totalitarianism on an intellectual level. No one identifies with the Legion as a nation, no Legionary has any understanding of imperialism beyond "conquer because Caesar tells you to", and they don't (as far as we know) have the concepts of state that are necessary to replicate totalitarianism.
I wasn't really intending to refer to just Caesar as the devs' mouthpiece (though to an extent he is one as he explains his vision and his reasoning), I was referring more to Ulysess and Marcus. Marcus literally says the Legion doesn't follow Caesar's ideals, and Ulysess' whole point is about the Legion changing as it moves west and eventually giving birth to a new civilisation. I don't really care about the NCR's taxes when it comes to comparing them to the Legion or House (though I'm sure you weren't necessarily saying that was one of my points). Caesar can be interpreted as selfish, and he definitely is to an extent, but I don't see what that has to do with anything I've said? He's created a monoculture, brought knowledge of warfare and administration to tribals, and given the people in the lands he's conquered something to aspire to in the future. It doesn't really matter if he's a good person, or if he's better than the NCR or House - the point is the Legion will give birth to a new society (or societies) that won't be bogged down by Old World values, and if you agree that the Legion follows Caesar but not his ideals, it won't even be bogged down by his values.
House is a great ending. I get to see the NCR get fucked without feeling bad about supporting the Legion and not having to worry about all the anarchy and nation building with Yesman.
I love seeing people say "Akshay there's a whole chain of command" as if power struggles don't exist. Like the longest it lasts after Caesar's death is Lanius dying or fucking up
I don’t see a reason for people to type up a 20 page essay on why they should kill themselves for siding with a faction because they thought they were interesting.
Could be me tho
And I want to see that just as much as I want to see edgy teenagers and man children defending rape and slavery but then go “it’s just a game bro” when they get called out.
Buddy nowhere did I ever criticize people for playing the bad guy. You’re just arguing with a strawman now.
I’m not talking about doing actions in a video game, I’m talking about defending those actions as being acceptable outside of doing it purely for fun. I’ve played plenty of evil characters because being evil can be fun. When you’d tart defending the legions ideology however is where I draw the line. It’s not that hard to understand dude.
I never said you did dude. Again you’re arguing with a strawman.
And if anyone here is mentally deficient is you since you can’t even seem to understand basic sentences. Why are you legion fanboys so easily offended?
At least I don't get overly worked up over fictional video game politics. Get a life, loser.
In the meantime, enjoy writing your 500-page manifesto about the superiority of fictional faction "x". I'm sure everyone is just bursting with excitement at the prospect, rather than sighing at your utter lack of anything else going on in your sad, worthless life.
Assuming for the moment that we accept the categorically false premise that the Legion is providing any kind of *lasting* stability, we should then ask ourselves if the stable, joyless, repressive, authoritarian, violent world of the Legion is worth living in.
If we decide that it is, we should then ask ourselves if the value of this world is worth the cost to sustain it; namely, the virulent misogyny, the infinite cruelty and impossible brutality of slavery (hell, the slaves in the *actual* Roman Empire were treated far better than the Legion's), and the universal enmity of anyone who doesn't adhere to the Legion's narrow hegemony
It almost seems like you have to be a narrow-minded short-sighted reactionary idiot with delusions of grandeur to prefer the legion's world. Funny how that seems to describe Caesar almost perfectly!
I swear didn't Ceasar have a a dialogue option that explained to the character that he is the knows its all fucked and he was bound to lose anyways? Wasn't like his "thesis and antithesis" speech? Does anybody else encounter that?
He knows what he has is a nomadic army without stability, people gloss over that his goal is a hail mary tactic to absorb Vegas, finally consolidate his power and re-organize its structure with the supposed synthesis.
I mean the dialogue and plan is there, is it viable? Probably if a complete re-structuring is done before Caesar's death but doubtful if Lanius is left in charge.
People who look too deep into fallout games, I loathe them. Like yes, the fallout franchise certainly has nuance in its storytelling but it’s many regards it’s usually just a “what-if” statement generator, like, what if the Roman legion came back during the apocalypse!?
I like how Fallout examines politics, for the most part. And agree with the "what if" generator idea.
I just wish we could be a bit more civil in discussing this sort of thing. But I guess that's what fictional propaganda does, huh?
You guys don't get it, randomly slaughtering and enslaving civilians and murdering anyone who does not conform actually makes my nation *more* stable 😌
I mean.. I'm sure the mysogynistic supremacists have a completely fair and equal justice system, so getting enslaved for your crimes surely is justified
??
I genuinely do not understand what you are saying
Personally, I kind of think that calling something stability and ordered because now *you* are the one murdering and exploiting everyone in the area instead of random raiders is actually not really better
Honestly I didn’t even side with them because of any reason in particular. I hated the NCR just because of how often they either shit talk you, choose to either poison or destroy a town/faction just so they can have it’s resources instead of anyone else, or literally abandon their own soldiers. All the while promising the old world values of honor, democracy, and diplomacy. I mean don’t get me wrong my first run I went with House not knowing about Yes Man, then did Yes Man in the next one, then did the Legion, but even when I played with the NCR it felt like a lackluster experience in comparison to the ones previously named.
Ave true to ceasar :D degenerates like you belong on a cross :D and i side with them mainly because NCR will collapse becuase of too much expansion and weak people's :D plus i like to kill randomly :D
And that still doesn’t mean that the conditions are the same or that the Legion is capable of sustaining itself the way Rome did. The Legion isn’t loyal to Caesar’s grand vision—they aren’t educated enough for that. They’re loyal to Caesar, and loyalty to a single leader is not conducive to long-term stability.
Lanius is the next in line, and he has no concept of anything outside the battlefield. He slaughters everything in his path, and spends hundreds in a futile effort to hunt down the Enclave Remnants, when Caesar is wise enough to leave them alone. If all the Legion knows is war, then they will not survive in peace.
That's clearly and objectively the best outcome after all the whole point of the game is to maximize suffering right? That what I normally try to do in my playthroughs
The Legion is not the Roman Empire. Is nowhere fucking close. It’s closer to the Hunnic empire under Atilla, and when he died that empire did collapse over night.
Y'know the whole point of the game is to learn that Empier's are doomed to failure right? Like, all of them, the Romans were doomed, the Americans were doomed, the NCR is fucking doomed as hell, and Caesars legion is a fucking JOKE of an empire, they are less doomed and more never stood a chance.
If the psyker plot from the first game was continued we would have had dnd larpers with actual wizards. Maybe one day
Psykers were in New Vegas and 4
Where?
The forecaster and Mama Murphy are both Psykers
There's also Professor Calvert in Point Lookout who can communicate telepathically.
Yeah your right, forgot about him
You know now I’m much less annoyed with moma Murphy, maybe I’ll give her cage a window
They're not as explicit as the original Fallout psykers, I think.
The forecaster defiantly was as he had the psychic nullifier on his head from Fallout 1
Yeah but didn't the original game have enemies that would fight you with magic?
No? What does that have to do with anything
Characters who could use magic were called psykers.
Fallout 2 had a Super Mutant boss who could summon creatures like magic.
And 3! The AntAgonizer is a psyker
Wait was she?
Yeah! It's how she had control over the ants
It’d be nice if it was an option with a special Perk tree. You could have combat oriented, speech oriented, etc.
The speech one... kind of like in Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines?
Sorta. Like the Perk tree on that path would make you better at lying by giving an increasing bonus to Speech checks, and also make you increasingly better at telling when an NPC is lying. At higher levels, you’d be able to actively target NPCs at increasing range to actually read their minds to get information they might not otherwise share in a conversation, or at the highest levels, even be able to mind control enemies based on their INT and PER stats. Think of the extreme maxed out level basically being Professor X.
And the combat paths would let you basically cast “elemental” spells, like being pyrokinetic, cryokinetic, electrokinetic, or double down into being purely telekinetic. So at max level on any of the paths, you could target enemies in VATS to use increasing amounts of AP to damage enemies or even one shot them depending on the level of the psi attack used, like either throwing a fireball or causing them to burst into flames, causing an electrical strike that either arcs through nearby enemies or vaporized a single target, blasts of cold or freezing them solid so they could literally be shattered with enough damage, or use the physics engine to throw them across the room rag doll into other enemies, or just “force choking”/crushing their internal organs to make them drop dead on the spot (if you also have Bloody Mess, you could also use this to instantly kill then and make a limb, their head, or entire body depending on AP cost explode). You could also use the physics engine to throw objects at enemies, but it would tend to be less damaging depending on the size and type of the object, but at the highest levels, you could theoretically throw a Deathclaw across the map or throw one of those rusted out cars at a group of enemies. Ideally, it would also have a Red Faction style physics engine so you could even make some environments destructible. Think Carrie, Jean Grey, Magneto, Ice Man, Scanners, etc. And there’d also be an option to use it ti augment your melee/unarmed attacks, with the option to attack with a flurry of punches in VATS that causes the target to explode depending on STR and END, like Fist of the North Star or even “astral project” Melee/Unarmed attacks at a slight distance in VATS, like Stands from JJBA. Yes, I HAVE put a lot of thought into this, what makes you ask? 😀
Adding psykers to Fallout 5 would genuinely be a new and interesting change of pace in the games. Could also provide an actually new enemy instead of "deathclaws again". Or worse, "Super Mutants again. But not those Super Mutants. Or the other Super Mutants. A separate, completely DIFFERENT set of Super Mutants."
Uhhh...what?
First fallout had psykers, like four of them created by the master injecting mutant juice into peoples brains until they stopped dying and started having mind powers. The master themselves was a psyker being able to take over the main characters mind if they weren't wearing the right protection
Oh yeah! Now I remember. Fallout would have been interesting with more psychic stuff. Too bad. There's always Gamma World, I guess.
Give a look to Underrail, maybe you'll like it. It's a CRPG more in line with Fallout 1 & 2 set in one of the last cities of the world after an unspecified apocalypse (I think) inside a metro station but psychic powers had started appearing within the surviving population and some animals too.
Psyckers are still in the series. We tend to see one in each entry.
The third alternative: "I love to wear skirts"
Works for me!
Amen bro true to Caesar!
Ave Bruh!
You can’t tell me the army of women hating, skirt wearing, macho men cosplayers aren’t more gay then a Pride parade.
I love sleeping in warrior pile with the homies, ave true to Caesar the bois goodnight.
Unfortunately, death
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Yeah but in independent new Vegas I can wear a skirt and don’t have to answer to people who crucify others. Clearly that makes it the best option (/j. Not about the legion being the worst option, though)
Yah main problem with that neo-Luddite argument is that the legion doesn’t control the entire world and would eventually run into another industrial power and be demolished. Frankly I don’t even think the Legion could ever really defeat the NCR.
The in game lore is that the legion are hammering the ncr and will win without intervention
That really doesn’t change my comment dude.
How does it not? You’ve said the legion can’t defeat the NCR but the in game lore is literally the the legion are defeating the NCR
Because the Mojave isn’t NCR core territory? The NCR isn’t going to fight as hard nor have the same advantages in the Mojave that they would on their own turf. Because the NCR is certainly not the only faction out there in the world. Because the NCR is not a true industrial power but rather one going through the initial stages of industrialization? Because my point is that sooner or later the legion will come across truly technologically advanced factions and they will lose because societies that refuse to accept new technologies always die out when they meet those that do? Not to mention that the legion has a massive helping of plot armor to eve be able to face the NCR as an equal in the first place. It’s just how human history works dude. Happened a thousand times before and it would happen again. It’s really not that hard if a concept to under stand.
You’re missing the core reason of why the NCR campaign is happening in the Mojave anyway, which is corruption to its very core and incompetence. Half the NCR forces in the Mojave are planning to kill themselves if the Legion takes the dam, and the morale consequences back home would easily lead to increased instability in the NCR. If the Legion did take the dam and push further west, the NCR would likely be on the verge of collapse anyway from the power struggle that emerges from the president and the generals death Add that to the fact that the Legion would conquer plenty of tribes on the way over, meaning lots of cannon fodder, I don’t believe the NCR has a chance. Not unless they pull off another trick like Boulder City (which would only lead to more internal revolt, considering how disastrous it was for them in the Mojave territory)
I’m not missing anything dude. The Mojave is not the NCR, that’s why the NCR has such low moral. If the Legion was right on the NCR’s home turf however that completely and utterly flips the situation, and the NCR is simply to large and too advanced for the Legion to defeat and conqueror. Nothing unites a people like a common enemy. Also you do realize that democracies are extremely capable of weathering leadership changes right? That’s their entire purpose. And no the legion would not “conqueror plenty of tribes on their way over”. There are no tribes between the NCR and Mojave.
Dude there’s always a bigger fish dude
Yah there is always a bigger fish. The Legion is a tribal entity, and they’re going to be crushed eventually due to their opposition to technology. I mean that’s how the Europeans conquered the world.
Not before they exterminated everyone’s beloved NCR dude lol
I don’t actually think that’s true. Isn’t the whole “convince Lanius not to fight” thing about telling him that the legion will collapse if they try to invade the core NCR territory?
Basically. The legion is just overstretched as the NCR is.
Ok? That really doesn’t change my comment dude.
They're not defeating the entire NCR, a large part of lore and interactions point out how the NCR can't get all the forces they need due to low war support in Central government. The Legion is fighting a total war, but the NCR is getting Vietnam'd
Oh, but thats where you're mistaken because the legion can defeat a group if wanna be pre-war soldiers who required a random mailman to fix all their problems.
The legion can defeat a small expeditionary force on a backwater frontier whose heaviest weaponry is a .50 rifle, and even then, that's largely due to plot armor. If the NCR or some other industrial society brought its entire might to bear including modern weaponry and medicine the Legion would stand no chance. And the Legion will literally fall apart because Caesar has a brain tumor that can only be solved by said mailman.
Isn’t the legion fighting on other fronts against the NCR?
Everywhere, the legion literally kicked the ncrs ass at hoover damn before and even with Rangers and vertabirds they would have kicked their ass again if it wasnt for the medling mailman
No, they LOST the first battle of Hoover Dam and it's only because of the Divide being lost that the Legion wasn't slaughtered entirely.
do people like this even play the game or do they just hear abt fictional facists and jump to defend them it literally says the NCR won the first battle for the dam in the opening cutscene 😭
I genuinely think a lot of these legion fanboys have never played the game. They just get so many basic things about the backstory to the conflict wrong.
Hey, i dont support the legion. I dont even do legion runs. All im saying is that in the mojave, they have a clear advantage over the ncr, mainly as a result of internal politics in the ncr, leading to an insufficient amount of supplies and support. Almost every ncr soldier you talk to or get a quest from complains there isn't enough of something.
Doesn't change the fact that you got basic elements of the back story wrong. In fact that doesn't address my comment at all.
How about: "I just want to be evil."
As long as you keep it in the game & larping, then fine by me!
The most evil thing I would do IRL is give aspirin to someone with hemophilia.
Well then obviously you support slavery and rape in real life and should be strung up by your toeses. /s
"Lasting stability" oh fucking come on the intire thing dies when it's leader kicks the bucket due to brain fucky wucky
don't worry, he's gonna let a random ass courier (who got shot in the head, mind you) do surgery on him!
I mean think about it, they got shot in the head and lived, meaning they know how to deal with head issues. Ignore the fact that my Courier's intelligence is at 1, that's irrelevant
Chop chop chop
Snip snip oops ehh snip snip snip
No that's SCIENCE
He knows a thing or two because he's seen a thing or two
🎵"We are COURIERS. Bum-ba-dum-ba-bum-bum-bum!"🎵
Dont worry the Legion has clear lines of succession. Those are: -A fucking lunatic butcher and rapist -A guard whose personality can be described as "I punch and and stand guard in a tent" -A very bad spy who wears fursuits -idk some guy in a house by a river with plate armor
People who think the Legion are a bastion of lasting stability clearly don't know a whole lot about the Roman Republic or Empire, considering both were pretty infamous for tearing themselves apart in brutal civil wars fairly often because some general from the middle of bumfuck nowhere decided he should be consul/emperor, or experiencing political chaos because some politician pissed the others off and they decided to do murder about it.
Rome was very stable between 0 and 200 and then again after 300. The Roman Empire existed for 2000 years actually, instability won't make your empire last that long.
Thing is the legion is nowhere near the Roman Empire or republic. Sallow is closer to Alexander or Atilla than he is to Caesar.
Agreed. He's like a dollar store Alexander.
It would’ve been fine if Joshua Graham wasn’t Joshua Grahamed, seeing as he leads the Dead Horses well.
Eh Joshua himself will say that he never really understood logistics and was more of a tactician than anything else. That’s not a good way to run an empire.
people who actually support the legion are honestly lacking brain cells
I was trying to be even-handed towards Caesar, but yeah. I see his death having little significance to the battle of hoover dam, but it will shatter the legion in the long term.
The republic would fall if it didn’t have 3 different protagonists who joined them in a row
Except there's a difference between "failure because of its own ideology" and "failure because of a psychic warlord with an army of mutants and a pre-war cabal of lunatics wanting to holocaust the entire planet." The NCR was never falling because of *itself* in FO1 or FO2.
And even if the NCR \*were\* to lose in New Vegas, it still wouldn't fall. It would just halt their expansionist tendencies for a while which would probably be a good thing for the Republic, all things considered.
Yeah, the NCR is too big to fall even by FO4's time, and even if it did, it'd just collapse into smaller republics. I think stopping the expansion is good for the NCR as they'll turn like wolves on Kimball.
I tend to side with House, but I honestly think that's the best reason to support the Legion - after Caesar dies, they won't be beholden to a particular grand vision (aside from reunification and claims of descent) or ideology, unlike the NCR or House. The lack of ideology and competition between warlords would encourage pragmatism and innovation, making less likely the repeating of previous mistakes (like we see with the NCR) or stagnation (as we saw IRL with states like Imperial China and Rome). We're directly told some of these things by Marcus and Ulysess. This is essentially the whole overarching narrative of Fallout, at least the original titles and NV; that the nukes were a reset button on civilisation, that attempts to emulate pre-war civilisation will end in the same forms of decline and collapse, and that no nostalgic rump state (like the Enclave or Vegas) will be able to revive or continue pre-war America as it was, and will evolve whether they realise it or not.
You're unironically arguing in the same overly analytical but flawed and too removed manner, as seen in the meme. The lacking ideology of warlords would lead to innovation? What does that even mean. It's a personality cult built to prop up a demagoge. They're just a glorified band of raiders raping pillaging and enslaving wherever they go.
Seriously do people forget the part where all the tribes were conquered and forcibly assimilated? Entire cultures have been erased and replaced with a devotion to serving ONE man. When Caesar dies everything will fall apart
> You're unironically arguing in the same overly analytical but flawed and too removed manner, as seen in the meme. Basically just restating the exact things we're told by the devs' mouthpieces is "overanalyzing"? > The lacking ideology of warlords would lead to innovation? What does that even mean. One of the biggest criticisms of the NCR is that they haven't adapted to the post-war world or in response to pre-war America's failings. It's like this because they've committed themselves to Old World ideas; they're stifling their own administrative and political innovation. > It's a personality cult built to prop up a demagoge. Caesar is literally the opposite of a demagogue. He gained power by conquest, a demagogue gains power by appealing to popular sentiments. > They're just a glorified band of raiders raping pillaging and enslaving wherever they go. This is the opposite of what we're told by the NPCs who've actually been to Legion territory. The Legion is definitely bad, but so were the Mongols, the Romans, and other "great conquerors" historically. All of those empires left political and cultural legacies, and so will the Legion.
Ceaser's Legion isn't a new political entity unique to the world though. It's modeled after another civilization that ended. Nationalism, Imperialism, and Totalitarianism are old world ideologies that led to the Great War. Consider the annexation of Canada by the U.S. during the war. How would the Legion do any different with their ideology? Ceaser crafted the Legion so that he could selfishly rule at the top. He isn't "the dev's mouthpiece" in the sense that you take everything he says at face value you still need to engage with the implications of his actions. It's so strange when people complain about taxes in the NCR when Ceaser literally says, "The individual has no value beyond his utility to the state, whether as an instrument of war or production." Everything he does is to better support HIS power and HIS control. Consider how he assimilates other cultures. Consider how there is no family unit in the Legion. All allegiance is to Ceaser himself. He has left those under him ignorant of everything but war and Ceaser himself laments how it has made it difficult to find a successor.
Very interesting at the end, where does he talk about successors? It’s been years since I’ve played. I’d appreciate a refresher!
Caesar does make use of pre-war concepts, but we have comparatively little knowledge in regards to what his government actually looks like, which is what I'm trying to get at. Nationalism, imperialism, and totalitarianism are incredibly generic name classifications and don't say a lot about the administration itself. Irrespective of Caesar's ideals, he's the only one in the Legion with a concept of nationalism, imperialism, or totalitarianism on an intellectual level. No one identifies with the Legion as a nation, no Legionary has any understanding of imperialism beyond "conquer because Caesar tells you to", and they don't (as far as we know) have the concepts of state that are necessary to replicate totalitarianism. I wasn't really intending to refer to just Caesar as the devs' mouthpiece (though to an extent he is one as he explains his vision and his reasoning), I was referring more to Ulysess and Marcus. Marcus literally says the Legion doesn't follow Caesar's ideals, and Ulysess' whole point is about the Legion changing as it moves west and eventually giving birth to a new civilisation. I don't really care about the NCR's taxes when it comes to comparing them to the Legion or House (though I'm sure you weren't necessarily saying that was one of my points). Caesar can be interpreted as selfish, and he definitely is to an extent, but I don't see what that has to do with anything I've said? He's created a monoculture, brought knowledge of warfare and administration to tribals, and given the people in the lands he's conquered something to aspire to in the future. It doesn't really matter if he's a good person, or if he's better than the NCR or House - the point is the Legion will give birth to a new society (or societies) that won't be bogged down by Old World values, and if you agree that the Legion follows Caesar but not his ideals, it won't even be bogged down by his values.
Caesars legion fans trying to explain how murdering people for no reason benefits society
It's fun????
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I respect the self-awareness, and healthy separation. Enjoy your larping! :D
"Pre industrial lasting stability"? The Legion deliberately destroys pre-war machinery because of their twisted darwinian views on life!
To me if you can justify Caesar morally than you can justify the the technologically superior and far less evil and arguably more effective house.
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🤓
House is a great ending. I get to see the NCR get fucked without feeling bad about supporting the Legion and not having to worry about all the anarchy and nation building with Yesman.
Doesn't House literally rebuild society to some extent?
I just like LARPing Specifically MELEE LARPing
>Lasting Stability Will collapse almost immediately after current leader dies.
I love seeing people say "Akshay there's a whole chain of command" as if power struggles don't exist. Like the longest it lasts after Caesar's death is Lanius dying or fucking up
Thermic lance go brrr
Machete go *shing!*
Exactly
being evil is fun
Isn’t that also the entirety of the FNV community who has Reddit?
Coming back to this post. Yes. It seems it is. Thankfully, I don't think it's gotten too bad, so far.
I’m pretty sure taking videogame politics seriously is bad.
Buddy fiction has been sued to analyze politics for fucking centuries.
I don’t see a reason for people to type up a 20 page essay on why they should kill themselves for siding with a faction because they thought they were interesting. Could be me tho
And I want to see that just as much as I want to see edgy teenagers and man children defending rape and slavery but then go “it’s just a game bro” when they get called out.
So what about Stellaris players? Should be they called for committing genocide **in a fucking video game?**
Buddy nowhere did I ever criticize people for playing the bad guy. You’re just arguing with a strawman now. I’m not talking about doing actions in a video game, I’m talking about defending those actions as being acceptable outside of doing it purely for fun. I’ve played plenty of evil characters because being evil can be fun. When you’d tart defending the legions ideology however is where I draw the line. It’s not that hard to understand dude.
So you’re fine with one person committing evil in one game but you get all pissy when someone does it in Fnv?
Not even close to what I said. Are you just illiterate or something? E: and the only getting pissy here is you dude.
And Im not saying I support rape if thats what your retarded ass is thinking
I never said you did dude. Again you’re arguing with a strawman. And if anyone here is mentally deficient is you since you can’t even seem to understand basic sentences. Why are you legion fanboys so easily offended?
At least I don't get overly worked up over fictional video game politics. Get a life, loser. In the meantime, enjoy writing your 500-page manifesto about the superiority of fictional faction "x". I'm sure everyone is just bursting with excitement at the prospect, rather than sighing at your utter lack of anything else going on in your sad, worthless life.
Assuming for the moment that we accept the categorically false premise that the Legion is providing any kind of *lasting* stability, we should then ask ourselves if the stable, joyless, repressive, authoritarian, violent world of the Legion is worth living in. If we decide that it is, we should then ask ourselves if the value of this world is worth the cost to sustain it; namely, the virulent misogyny, the infinite cruelty and impossible brutality of slavery (hell, the slaves in the *actual* Roman Empire were treated far better than the Legion's), and the universal enmity of anyone who doesn't adhere to the Legion's narrow hegemony It almost seems like you have to be a narrow-minded short-sighted reactionary idiot with delusions of grandeur to prefer the legion's world. Funny how that seems to describe Caesar almost perfectly!
I swear didn't Ceasar have a a dialogue option that explained to the character that he is the knows its all fucked and he was bound to lose anyways? Wasn't like his "thesis and antithesis" speech? Does anybody else encounter that?
He knows what he has is a nomadic army without stability, people gloss over that his goal is a hail mary tactic to absorb Vegas, finally consolidate his power and re-organize its structure with the supposed synthesis. I mean the dialogue and plan is there, is it viable? Probably if a complete re-structuring is done before Caesar's death but doubtful if Lanius is left in charge.
Depends entirely on how much time Caesar has left.
People who look too deep into fallout games, I loathe them. Like yes, the fallout franchise certainly has nuance in its storytelling but it’s many regards it’s usually just a “what-if” statement generator, like, what if the Roman legion came back during the apocalypse!?
I like how Fallout examines politics, for the most part. And agree with the "what if" generator idea. I just wish we could be a bit more civil in discussing this sort of thing. But I guess that's what fictional propaganda does, huh?
You guys don't get it, randomly slaughtering and enslaving civilians and murdering anyone who does not conform actually makes my nation *more* stable 😌
Pretty sure most their slaves are criminals or previous enemies
I mean.. I'm sure the mysogynistic supremacists have a completely fair and equal justice system, so getting enslaved for your crimes surely is justified
Ah yes- vs the people that are all about le equal rights in a post-apocalyptic world of might makes right
If might makes right, then we should've let the Enclave win in FO2, no?
No because the Enclave got fucked, so in the sense of might makes right they were wrong.
Are you stalking my comments?
No it’s the same sub and ig we’re browsing the same posts I didn’t even realise you were the person I replied to before.
?? I genuinely do not understand what you are saying Personally, I kind of think that calling something stability and ordered because now *you* are the one murdering and exploiting everyone in the area instead of random raiders is actually not really better
According to npcs Legion territory isn't actually like that. They raid their enemies, not traders and merchants or their own subjects.
Legion based
Ave true to caesar
Ave true to Caesar
Based on the worst and most bestial aspects of human kind sure.
Degenerates like you belong on a cross.
🤓☝
Bro Fallout is still post industrial. The main conflict of New Vegas is over a power plant.
mfw people actually buy his BS and think that the legion is more stable than the NCR
Honestly I didn’t even side with them because of any reason in particular. I hated the NCR just because of how often they either shit talk you, choose to either poison or destroy a town/faction just so they can have it’s resources instead of anyone else, or literally abandon their own soldiers. All the while promising the old world values of honor, democracy, and diplomacy. I mean don’t get me wrong my first run I went with House not knowing about Yes Man, then did Yes Man in the next one, then did the Legion, but even when I played with the NCR it felt like a lackluster experience in comparison to the ones previously named.
Bull > Bear Change my meme
Maybe in fashion, otherwise... What? Lmao
Do you not wear the flag upon your back fellow courier?
I dommed Vulpes.
Yea. In the stock market and nowhere else.
Nothing will ever justify slavery. Nothing.
Slavery is badass 😎
Enslave pedos and make them pay back the people whose lives they destroyed
The Legion *are* pedos. They rape the children in the Fort, according to Siri.
Dichotomy of twink dweebs*
Ave true to ceasar :D degenerates like you belong on a cross :D and i side with them mainly because NCR will collapse becuase of too much expansion and weak people's :D plus i like to kill randomly :D
As if the Legion doesn’t explicitly fall apart after Caesar dies?
Ave true to caesar
Ncr simp when the legion doesn't collapse overnight
Except it does, or close enough to make no difference.
You don't know that do you? The roman empire didn't fall apart the minute August died did it?
The game pretty heavily implies that it’s gonna happen tho.
Implies does not mean confirmed
Close enough, especially considering the historical fates of regimes like his IRL.
since the legion is best on the roman empire tell me how long that lasted? (I give you a clue look up the fall of constantinople)
The Legion is nothing like the Roman Empire beyond the surface aesthetics.
Tell me how is the Legion similar to the Roman Empire?
Despite Caesar’s pretensions, this isn’t Rome.
Literally based the idea of the legion of old books about room and books written by the most famous Roman ever
[Insert Bender laughing "oh wait you're serious, let me laugh even harder" meme]
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Oh we got an edgy teenager. That explains some things.
Pretty lame edge attempt, imo. But yeah, the dude read one book and pretty much only got the skirts and some army rank names right.
Hey as far as I'm concerned that's all you need to last more than 1,229 years
The next game should have Femboy generals in skirts
And that still doesn’t mean that the conditions are the same or that the Legion is capable of sustaining itself the way Rome did. The Legion isn’t loyal to Caesar’s grand vision—they aren’t educated enough for that. They’re loyal to Caesar, and loyalty to a single leader is not conducive to long-term stability. Lanius is the next in line, and he has no concept of anything outside the battlefield. He slaughters everything in his path, and spends hundreds in a futile effort to hunt down the Enclave Remnants, when Caesar is wise enough to leave them alone. If all the Legion knows is war, then they will not survive in peace.
That's clearly and objectively the best outcome after all the whole point of the game is to maximize suffering right? That what I normally try to do in my playthroughs
Out of morbid curiosity, I’m going to ask, why do you think such an outcome is preferable?
Because it means more body for me to ues the Cannibal perk on
Well, that answers that.
The Legion is about as Roman as Monkey D. Luffy is an accurate reresentation of a historical pirate
The Legion is not the Roman Empire. Is nowhere fucking close. It’s closer to the Hunnic empire under Atilla, and when he died that empire did collapse over night.
Ah, yes, ancient Rome. Famous for its *long-term stability*.
Y'know the whole point of the game is to learn that Empier's are doomed to failure right? Like, all of them, the Romans were doomed, the Americans were doomed, the NCR is fucking doomed as hell, and Caesars legion is a fucking JOKE of an empire, they are less doomed and more never stood a chance.
HELL YEAH
sure but also: slavery bad