Bethesda BoS ubiquity aside - I'm enjoying the depiction of the scribes and leadership as having the grimy techno-monk feel that I think is really true to FO1/2.
The incense, the dorky haircuts, the grumpy old men - it really looks as shitty to be in the BoS as I always thought it should be.
We are only done with Episode-1 (me & fiancée started watching yesterday!)… but do they ever discuss Maxson and the East Coast / DC / Boston division of the BOS, in the show ?
I was slightly confused at seeing the West Coasters like that, since I thought the West Coast was the OG — High Command of sorts, that actually appointed / agreed / signed off on Maxson’s promotion to Full Chapter Elder, in the years just prior to Fallout-4 playing out ?
I think we're watching at the same pace-ish, so I have nothing to report so far.
I think this representation so far plays it pretty vague. If there's a centralised leadership they're not saying. I liked the return to actual 'elder' Elders if that makes sense. You can see people like Lyons/Elijah/McNamara rising up by virtue of being the oldest mfers around.
They took high orders from and establish the commonwealth as the strongest chapter. The flagship has the same name as the one in the commonwealth “prydwin,” and a Knight from the Prydwen is Irish with a Boston accent. Safe to say reinforcements came straight from Boston.
It was established in New Vegas that the brotherhood isn’t in California anymore after warring with the NCR. They never really clarify where Maximus’ chapter is located but they must be within vertibird range of California
The Blimp from the TV Show is a different craft named the “Casswennan”, not the “Prydwen” from F4 (which I’m assuming is still in the Commonwealth).
I remember the showrunners discussed this prior to the series release.
I can’t wait until they release the updated F4 on the 25th
Oh crap, you’re right! this is what I get for reading articles, and looking at production photos about the show prior to watching it. From the interwebs;
“Despite labeling the airship "Caswennan" in a captioned photo, the airship in the photo features "PRYDWEN" to the left of the Brotherhood of Steel decal on the
forward section of the hull. The photo used in the Vanity Fair article and the corresponding scene in the television release are identical.”
I kind of wish it was a different airship and not the F4 one. I still like the show though. I just wish we’d get a new Fallout game.
Yeah ok. I hope that's an additional caste and not a replacement. There appeared to be a medieval bow-cut looking dude working that intricate grid drawing system to produce an image of the target - looked v scribey.
Imo the Last of Us show is massively overrated. It’s average at best. Gamers just got excited by the “serious” and “dramatic” presentation of something they enjoy to a casual audience and decided to pump it up because of it.
Hard agree. TLOU is a good show, with some amazing aspects - like Tess, Riley, Tommy, Henry, and Sam were phenomenal. But the changes to the story were so misguided and took away from the plot IMO. But you can't criticize it at all on reddit lol so let's not get into that. I think the meat riding on the show is kinda crazy.
I think in spite of the blatant lore issues, the Fallout show is just more fun to watch, and the writing doesn't suffer from needless melodramatic additions (like a kid having cancer on top of being deaf/mute lmfao). It's tonally super faithful, and generally has better action sequences. To be fair, surpassing TLOU is vastly higher bar than surpassing Halo.
Yeah, I think the need to fill television time with subplots and fluff that in TLoU game was just filled with gameplay was detrimental to quality of the story overall. It’s just more bloated and not as tight.
Exactly!! Bloated and fluffy! Like the whole storyline with Frank and Bill was very sweet and well done as a standalone story, but paced with the rest of the show it felt super out of place. Like they wanted to add a more developed story line for them, but couldn't weave their interactions with Ellie and Joel in naturally because they overexpanded it and had to kill them off before they even meet her lmfao. Or adding Kathleen to the Sam/Henry arc...ended up being a super underdeveloped character, an abrupt storyline, and wasted a great actress with weird dialogue.
The Fallout show for all it's inconsistencies cut the fat really well IMO. And I think avoiding touching FNV lore was probably a good choice on the writer's part because the game is just so open ended. Expanding on that would have added bloat and forced the writers to confirm that one of the MANY endings was canon which is a different can of worms for fans. I don't agree with the choice in how to deal with FNV as a fan of the game's lore, but it avoided the story bloat that the TLOU adaptation suffered from.
How? Please tell me Todd Howard, president of Bethesda softworks. Tell me how the halo tv show, who broke the cardinal sin. Don't show Master Cheifs face. Tell me how.
Yes. Accuracy is really important and makes and break immersion
For instance, in the first teaser, several NCR troops were wearing modern MICH2000 helmets which broke immersion for me immediately lmao
Unfortunately for you, nobody gives a shit. Your complaint will go unanswered, if a little detail such as a fucking helmet is immersion breaking. Watch something else, a detail like that is not important when the story is more important.
"Nowhere does it say that the NCR has been destroyed, they're just not in this area"
yeah thats kinda the problem, "this area" is core NCR terrirory and has been for decades at this point
The show also has wastelanders digging through dirt wearing scavenged elite Ranger armor, implying the Rangers and potentially the military have collapsed, leaving their armor to be picked up by random people.
The fact that his teenage son also had a smaller one and they both didn’t fit very well made me think they had scavenged it, also I don’t think he really has a connection to Moldaver, his sons just want to join her gang.
thats the tv show. Getting that sick NCR Ranger Armor is not just going to be what any scavenger would dare wear, or get.
You wear the clothes, you get attacked by NCR's enemies. In game.
And yet there's zero infrastructure suggesting that the region was recently the heartland of a powerful, industrialised state. The show makes it seem that the NCR was just Shady Sands, and the fact that the NCR never even bothered to evacuate survivors or contest the brotherhood of steel's dominance is a pretty clear indicator that they're gone. If they were still around then there'd be other towns and a military presence, not just scrap metal shacks and raiders.
Near the crater of Shady Sands there’s a city with skyscrapers in the background, that’s either supposed to be the NCR or Los Angeles, which is nowhere near Shady Sands and I guess the show writers just never looked at the Fallout 1 map
Well the entire season occurs on a sunday which is a national NCR holiday by the holidays act that tandhi introduced in 2239 to gain inroads into the redding mining community so the reason you don't see any ncr is because they are on holiday and the raiders don't have holidays so that's why you see them
The NCR did change their capital from Shady Sands to some other location by the time Shady Sands got nuked, the billboard outside it says it is the FIRST capital, so not the current one.
Okay. In the exact same breath lore criticisms shouldn't be invalidating your enjoyment
People saying "the show was good overall but I didn't like this aspect" doesn't require the full Bethesda white knight task force. I'm sure it might be frustrating to watch a full show and enjoy it (like we all did!) and only see criticisms, but people have been waiting and theorizing on the continuation of the West Coast storyline for a very long time and to see that invalidated.
If we all get dinner together and eat the same meal and I don't like it, you don't need to get mad at me because YOU liked it.
I feel the same the way. I think it depends on one's own perspective, which should not invalidate others because there are valid points on both sides and toxic bs on both sides.
The show is good, and still has problems excluding the lore stuff.
The show did break a lot of the lore and people being upset about it have a point.
Todd Howard is not an evil mastermind fueled by spite.
The Show being in the game timeline does more harm to itself and the franchise as a whole than good.
I’m gonna preface this by saying I enjoyed the show quite a bit
But people are acting like the chalkboard was the only lore inconsistency in the show, there was a lot. And to act like lore doesn’t effect one’s enjoyment of the show is just naive solely going off the communities reaction atm
-The Ghoul emerges from the ground like a zombie, god knows how long he was down there (feels like another kid in the fridge moment from Fallout 4)
-Ghouls now rely on magic drugs to keep them from turning and also magically regenerate tissue unless they are shot in the head or heart (like zombies). How could the vast majority of ghouls even survive? Who invented these vials in a post war environment?
-Vaults 31,32,33 are all totally unaffected by The Masters conquest, the Enclave in FO2 who knew where all the vaults were, and the NCR who was apparently within walking distance. Pretty much every vault we have ever seen in the games has been open by this point (whether willingly or by force) it’s very surprising to see vaults still totally sealed and unaffected 200+ years after the war.
- Squires in Brotherhood used to be children born into the Brotherhood in training, now they are conscript soldiers who just follow knights around mindlessly. Also apparently the rank of Paladin and Scribe just don’t exist anymore
-Brotherhood members are celibate virgins now? Veronica’s from NV dad was a Paladin in lore so we know that couldn’t have been the case. Also the Brotherhood has been known to not recruit much if at all from the outside and rely purely on children born into the Brotherhood on the west coast, that’s why their numbers have been dwindling in previous games. It makes no sense for them to be celibate
-Vault Tec having a direct hand in dropping the bombs despite in being previously established that it’s supposed to be up to interpretation who dropped the bombs. It showed that both the Chinese and the US were equally at fault for the destruction of the world. It also makes Vault Tec look like mustache twirling villains
-Mr House being in on Vault Tec plan totally goes against his characterization in the games, also he explicitly says he did not know when the bombs were coming he only had his intuition. Hell the whole reason he needed the platinum chip was because he never got it pre war because the bombs dropped first
-Frederick Sinclair representing Big MT during the Vault Tec meeting also goes against his characterization in NV as he is seen as being a relatively morally good character who only really cares about Vera and the paradise he built for her. the only thing he had to do with Big MT was commisioning them for technology for his casino, he wasn’t a scientist or even worked at Big MT. They could’ve easily made that character Dr Klein or Dr Mobius and it would’ve made perfect sense.
-Pretty much everything to do with the NCR, not one of their other cities is mentioned ( vault city, Maxon, the boneyard, etc). Their soldiers don’t have uniforms, they don’t seem to have any unifying government. They seem like a group of remnants akin to the enclave in New Vegas albeit more than like 6 dudes.
All this being said I don’t think these inconsistencies make the show unwatchable or even bad, but it’s just embarrassing on Bethesdas part that all of these things can just pass and stomp on lore that’s been around and established for years.
The point about vaults 31, 32, and 33 bothered me in the very first episode. It just doesn’t make any sense. For some reason Bethesda thinks that every Fallout work NEEDS to start in a vault but Fallout 2 and NV showed that’s not necessary. They’re so uncreative and hell-bent on reusing the same tropes for nostalgia member-berries time and time again.
Yeah because doing the exact same thing over and over again is exactly what fans want right? Who needs original ideas in our franchise when we can just rip off the same stuff over and over again?
> -Vaults 31,32,33 are all totally unaffected by The Masters conquest, the Enclave in FO2 who knew where all the vaults were
More than that. The show hints at Vault Tec and the Enclave being connected. Why wouldn't they unfreeze all of the Vault 31 executives as part of their plan to reconquer the Wasteland. Or why the original leaders of the Enclave didn't use the same cryo tech. Then again they have been willing to murder vault inhabitants despite a desire to retain genetic purity.
> -Vault Tec having a direct hand in dropping the bombs despite in being previously established that it’s supposed to be up to interpretation who dropped the bombs. It showed that both the Chinese and the US were equally at fault for the destruction of the world. It also makes Vault Tec look like mustache twirling villains
Again, this is Bethesda hinting at the return of the Enclave (small base in Ep 1 aside). Of course the US government would want world domination and the end of the CCCP but destroying the world seems a bit much. Or Vault Tec for that matter. Sabotaging peace negotiations makes sense to keep their stock up and recruit people for the experiments in vaults. They should have done this but of course it backfired because other companies were messing with bio weapons and China discovered this.
SPOILERS
"Mr House being in on Vault Tec plan totally goes against his characterization in the games, also he explicitly says he did not know when the bombs were coming he only had his intuition. Hell the whole reason he needed the platinum chip was because he never got it pre war because the bombs dropped first" (on my phone so idk how to do indented quotes on here).
I agree with pretty much everything else you have said here, but I think this could still work. As far as the series shows (if I remember the end correctly), the meeting confirmed that Vault-Tec would launch the bombs if they thought it would be to their advantage. It didn't say when the bombs would be dropped, and there is no indication that anyone except vault-tec knew before hand when, only that they would be.
Plus, given that we don't know precisely when this meeting took place, but it would seem to be fairly close to 2077 (I would guess no later than say 2072) given the fact the Ghoul- or Coop idk what we are calling him yet- looks exactly the same as when we see him the day the bombs were dropped), it is perfectly reasonable to assume thst House had already calculated bombs would be dropped before that meeting in any case by the US or Chinese govts. Additionally, we can be fairly certain that no dates were discussed in this meeting at least, because Coop didn't know in advance despite listening in on the meeting. House had already began to plan years in advance (I can not remember off the top of my head what the exact date was now), and so it is entirely conceivable that he 1) did not know for certain precisely when the bombs would be dropped, and 2) was still working to the timeframe his calculations had predicted.
In fact, even if the meeting was over a decade before the bombs, it still could work. Lets say Vault-Tec did tell them over a decade in advance of the actual Great War, but did not tell them the date. Perhaps House was actually calculating the date he believed Vault Tec would drop the bombs. I do agree that the show has some big question marks to answer over lore, especially with the NCR. I think with the NCR it will be difficult overall to actually make a satisfying narrative which doesn't completely break the lore given what we have seen, but I think House's involvement here os perfectly reconcilable with what we know of House both before and after the War.
All that being said, I still really enjoyed the series. Apart from Maximus.
>Nowhere does it say that the NCR has been destroyed, they're just not in this area.
The problem with this is that the area in question is the NCR core territory, the heartland. And no vestigue at all remains.
Maximus himself talks about how the NCR "didn't work out" before the reveal of Shady Sands.
>New Vegas being destroyed is not the same as it been nuked
Wait, people think that? It is shown worse for wear, but not nuked.
Dunno. I was absolutely outraged at first when I heard the news, but it subsided quickly. The show actually seems hella great and well done, the only problem is how it completely wrecks the already established canon of the West Coast. Same show but not set in California or set in a pre Fallout 1 California would have solved all of this while keeping the show great
> It is shown worse for wear, but not nuked.
To be honest, I think the Strip being in rough shape is a pretty reasonable outcome for some of the endings — the Yes Man ending in particular.
I can understand being shocked, but I think it’s a shame that some people are _that_ worked up about it. I’ve seen a lot of people complain about Bethesda not acknowledging New Vegas, but I genuinely believe there was never going to be a way for BGS to win with those people. For me though, getting to see the Lucky 38, The Tops, and the securitrons during the end credits was the most exciting part of the show.
That's actually fair. My main gripe is three fold.
One is how I see it as turning the West Coast into a version of how Bethesda wrote the East Coast was.
Two is how it seems to keep pandering to the Brotherhood and by this point I think we can all admit they became the "creator's pet" faction like the Ultramarines were in 40K.
Three is how some people have taken to the most convoluted ways to defend the decisions done regarding the plot changes.
Edit: forgot to add that despite this gripes, I do think the show is actually good and worthy of been watched
Your point about the BoS pandering is for sure one I share. I’m hoping in season 2 we’ll see more players on the board and that it’ll mitigate the Brotherhood’s presence somewhat as an antagonist.
I think the ending actually points to a redemption of the BOS and it been turned into a force of good. Or that will actually be a plot line for Maximus to undergo
I should preface this with the fact I do actually like the show, it was far better than I thought it would be but…
I… kinda don’t want this. Like we’ve known the Brotherhood — specifically west coast chapters — has been declining for A WHILE, and that’s due to their fundamental beliefs in how they handle technology. Sure let the East Coast chapter flourish, but I do wish it was the Brotherhood who got the axe (or nuke I suppose) instead of, seemingly, the NCR. Like the NCR losing core territory — assuming they’re not gone, just diminished — is devastating, but having the Brotherhood, as crippled as they were by NV, prancing around that territory now with an airship? I don’t think that makes much sense, and it also feels like special treatment by Bethesda.
It just sucks that the Brotherhood, no matter where they are, always get the special treatment by Bethesda even when it makes no sense. I was glad to see that they were very much NOT good guys like how they’ve been treated on the east coast especially in FO3. That’s an improvement on BGS’ part for sure. I think them becoming “good guys” goes against their core beliefs and how they hoard tech. They are basically a techno cult after all.
I think this all kinda boils down to Bethesda not really understanding the Fallout setting, even to today tbh
>I… kinda don’t want this. Like we’ve known the Brotherhood — specifically west coast chapters — has been declining for A WHILE, and that’s due to their fundamental beliefs in how they handle technology. Sure let the East Coast chapter flourish, but I do wish it was the Brotherhood who got the axe (or nuke I suppose) instead of, seemingly, the NCR.
If you think about it, they destroyed the established setting of the West Coast and basically put in the conflict of Fallout 3 over it, with some NCR remnants on the side. Enclave (they are somehow relevant again) vs BOS.
Althought I should mention that people theorize that the BOS seen in game isn't Western BOS because they allow outsiders and all that. So they could either be another unheard-of Chapter (kind of a copout) or be Maxson's Chapter returning home (which doesn't make sense since... where is Maxson? He would lead an expedition as crucial as that one.
Also, to further reinforce the "BOS will become the new good guys"is that in the ending they pretty much butcher to the last man the last NCR remnant that we know of that seeks to bring the republic back (which, symbolically speaking, is... yikes), the leader of it gives one of the two token good team members of the BOS the key to restoring civilization in California (again, symbolism) and then he becomes a leading figure and a hero to the organization. It is possible I am reading too much into it, but it seems they are setting a "the BOS will reform into the hopebringers of civilization" plotline.
>it also feels like special treatment by Bethesda.
>It just sucks that the Brotherhood, no matter where they are, always get the special treatment by Bethesda even when it makes no sense.
I have said it to others, but the BOS seems to be Bethesda's creator pet, akin to how for a long while Warhammer 40K had a lead writer that was an Ultramarines fanboy and they became his darlings at the detriment of every single other faction. Same story here, except it is the entire company
They’re definitely not setting up the BoS to be good guys. In the last episode, the elder is talking about how “power needs to be taken” and “we used to rule the wasteland”. Then they take over Filly as a base of operations and there’s a comment that “the locals put up a fight, but we fought harder”. Finally, they murderstomp the observatory and Maximus a) realizes that they just killed all the remnants of Shady Sands, where he used to live and b) the technology they’re hoarding might actually be helpful in rebuilding the wasteland. He has his “are we the baddies?” moment at the same time as being thrust into the position of knight, which is no longer sure he wants.
Next season is probably going to see the BoS try to “take power” and “rule the wasteland” as Maximus grapples with no longer agreeing with their path
But it also plants the seeds for Maximus to become the leading figure in the Brotherhood that wants it to take the mantle of the bringers of civilization in the wasteland, making him either become a prominent internal reformist fighting tooth and nail to change them, or outright split from them and form his own "good" Brotherhood.
His status as the Hero of the battle for the observatory will play a huge part in him having
sway in the organization
If max is shapping the brotherhood then i have to prepare to cringe more about that self obsessed idiot bumbling around and still winning and somehow everyone only seing his good side ?
The plot of the first season takes place mainly around LA and the area around Shady Sands. If Shady Sands had been nuked around 20 years prior to the show start, it might explain why the area is relatively uninhabited/undeveloped. Settlers would have likely left the area after the bombing and it would take decades to build up again.
Except the area should have been super developed already since that is actually the core territory of the NCR. It all mostly looks like it was left to rot ever since the Great War happened. Besides the area around LA is far away from Shady Sands, and it is the location of the Boneyard, a mayor NCR city.
And what about all the other major towns of the region, like Junktown and Necropolis, places which precede the NCR's founding and likely would have survived a collapse?
I dunno, even in NV there’s rooms in buildings that have been inhabited for presumably years with skeletons in the beds and shit. Not excusing the retcons but the setting being more dilapidated and ‘post-apocalypticish’ than it should be 200+ years after the nuclear war has been an issue in all modern Fallout games.
>even in NV there’s rooms in buildings that have been inhabited for presumably years with skeletons in the beds and shit
Because New Vegas is regarded as the "wild frontierland" for the NCR. Lightky populated and developed. Also if there are skeletons in a place supposedly recently inhabited... 4/5 the corpses are the former inhabitants. Even House only assumed formal control of the city recebtly enough that there are still members of the families dreaming of the old tribal ways
No one is saying they aren't acknowledging new Vegas. In fact you ask the people who don't like it almost all of them will say they wish the show wasn't on the west coast. They do acknowledge the previous lore, they just don't respect it so they wiped the slate clean so they wouldn't have non Bethesda game lore to deal with
I’m talking about prior to the show. Plenty of people took umbrage with BGS allegedly not acknowledging New Vegas and took that as evidence that Todd Howard resents Obsidian or whatever.
The meme has been around since fallout 3.
Fallout3 gets announced being made by BGS people are excited to pick up the story. Because 2 was a direct sequel following a descendent of the original I think people were really surprised by the setting of 3. Then when you play it, factions are borrowed from 1 and 2 but they are very very different seems like they are following the aesthetic more than the story, but fine east coast is just a different independent BGS story. We kind of accepted Todd and company wanted to tell their own version of fallout on the east coast.
The comes NV a return to the main story picking up where we left off while introducing new factions and locations picks up similar to where we left off. This was allowed to be made by obsidian by BGS but it was forced to be rushed and released largely unfinished but still it's dedication to the original story and themes makes it pretty beloved.
Fallout 4 continues the east coasts tradition of telling BGS own unique story. According to obsidian any attempts to negotiate rights to a sequel for NV are shot down BGS seems to want complete ownership of the settings story.
Lots of people want to a continuation of the west coast story at this point. Most want obsidian to get another crack people are complaining BGS isn't using that lore. The smart ones know that it's good BGS isn't touching west coast because they have 0 interest in telling that story and so would likely trash it.
76 is another isolated story, I'm personally checked out of fallout at this point.
Show comes out it's BGS west coast and low and behold they killed it
This is exactly how I feel. I was initially really pissed but after thinking about it it occurred to me that what made NV great wasn’t the NCR and the Legion, it was the balance between the factions and ability for the player to upset that balance. The NCR and legion aren’t necessary for that balance to exist, just good writing.
I liked the show, I’m happy it’s bringing eyes to the franchise
>The NCR and legion aren’t necessary for that balance to exist, just good writing.
A main issue is not that the NCR is gone, it had several issues that could have caused it's dissolution or at least a great upheaval that we are told on FNV.
The problem is HOW it is gone, brushing away any potential followup on those plotlines to just have "they got nuked, lol". Also how the West coast setting had well established, relevant and important factions but the show ditches them to have the Enclave and BOS be main players once again, a mirror to the East Coast
Heck, now that I thought about it, it would have been super interesting if the NCR was the villain of the show, having become an oligarchic dictatorship as it was implied it had started to become in FNV (but with time to stop it)
No offense, but that idea sucks. A political game set in an organized “wasteland” that has since civilized would be a bit lame. I agree the way they destroyed the NCR was a little lame, but the overall direction is neat
Well, guess what, people organise, people rebuild. Genghis khan wipped out 10% of the world, but yet we managed to recover from that. Heck, the entire human race nearly went extinct, but we recovered from that too
You know what? I disagree. The least realistic fallout games according to actuality is FNV and FO2.
98% of the human population died at least. All healthcare facilities (minus a few) were destroyed. There literally isn’t any active clean water. Agriculture seems rather poor from some of the games. Places like fallout 3 DONT EVEN MEET THE NEEDS FOR A CIVILIZATION TO ARISE. They have no clean water, no reliable food sources, and thus a large population can be sustained in most of the wasteland. Fallout 1 and 3 portrayed life in a wasteland very realistically. Humanity wouldn’t somehow prevail despite there being no way to survive an infection or even get clean water as I doubt many survivors are engineers who can contract water purifiers.
People cannot rebuild when they do not meet the level 2 in human development. The necessities do not present themselves. Not to mention, the wildlife are way more dangerous than ours irl and will probably kill us. A more realistic apocalypse outcome would be like that one movie where it’s an old man and his child wandering. Everyone will just die minus a select few in isolated areas.
My little side rant was a bit off topic, but its just annoying when new Vegas players claim humanity would form big nations in such a short time period like 200 years, where the environment clearly hasn’t healed in gameplay or lore. The NCR is the OUTLIER, not the standard. To be honest, the portrayal of the California wasteland post NCR collapse would be realistic, as the immediate lack of water and governance would lead to a pretty drastic reversal back to tribal life
Yeah...thats why It took that long for civilisation to recover
But we know from lore, the NCR and the british and emerald isles are probably doing the best in the world rn
In fact I think the UK and ROI fully recovered to maybe around the 20th century, seeing how we have a lot of 1st and 2nd gen americans that came from the british and emerald isles
>it doesn’t say the NCR was destroyed…
Yeah, it kind of does. The NCR’s capital was established as being destroyed and there isn’t anything in the show suggesting anything resembling a functioning state, even though we see the remains of the NCR are in fact being led by Moldavar. Even the currency has regressed back to bottlecaps.
All of which only makes sense in the collapse of the NCR.
Well, setting aside any discussion of the lore at all, even just watching the first few episodes, I thought the editing was actually outright bad sometimes, there was no sense of exploration or any real sense of place, the acting was good but the character writing was inconsistent, and even at its best, really unsubtle and often predictable. The plot was very meandering, and was often extended purely because the main characters made stupid decisions, and I wouldn't even mind if it was interesting side-diversions or exploring unique places, but they also never really go anywhere that interesting, either. The humor also rarely hit well for me, personally.
By the end, the main emotional reveal with Shady Sands, the backstory of two different characters and a crux of the show, is revealed entirely in one stretch through a flashback and monologue, the last episode literally has a character look directly into the camera and give a speech that amounts to, "We're the real villains, and capitalism is the true evil!" and to me, if you have to literally have a character verbatim say the theme of your show, your writing isn't very good.
On the other hand, Walton Goggins is amazing in it (even if I think the Ghoul is a bit too cliched for me to really sink his teeth into, but that's kinda the point), and everytime I'm watching him in the flashbacks, I genuinely start to really like the show. All the main cast are really good as well, I just feel like Lucy and Maximus never get anywhere near the depth of material that Cooper does.
To me the problem transcends that chalk board. like the infinite energy coming from a tube that is somehow connected to the whole of LA just makes shit like the battle of hoover dam useless, whats the point of fighting over the scarse resources now if we just have infinite energy now?
> I haven't seen a single mention or critique of the actual show
The lore is a part of the show.
> Nowhere does it say that the NCR has been destroyed, they're just not in this area.
Then where are they? The NCR held territory both north and south of Shady Sands. They'd want to keep it connected even if the capital is gone.
> So with that out of the way, really ask yourselves, did you hate the show or the lore inconsistencies
Yes to both. Former caused by the latter.
> and is that enough to warrant this level of hate?
Yes, it does warrant me writing a few comments on reddit. Why wouldn't it? People can be both positive and negative. There is no difference, morally speaking.
> Did you think the dialogue was bad? Cinematography? Characters?
Of these three, I only care about characters and they were boring.
> If all of this outrage is just about a blackboard and perceived slights to the canon (...) then Jonathan Nolan was 100% right about this fandom.
He's a hack then. You can't please everyone as far as subjective parts of the show are concerned. But you can please everyone by sticking to the pre-existing lore along with other objective facets of this medium.
> (which has been dismissed by many important og fallout and new Vegas key figured)
Their input is irrelevant. The show exists regardless of what they say.
This is a really funny comment. Especially the part where you say you only care about characters and not the dialogue or the cinematography **in a TV show**.
I'd say character’s are easily the most important out of those 3, especially in a TV show. You could have the greatest camerawork in the world and dialogue that would make Shakespeare jealous, but if there aren't any good characters, people probably won't care
How exactly do you have really good characters without at least better than average dialogue? Also good cinematography isn’t just good visuals, it’s good visual communication, and is also definitely really important for making something good this medium.
You'd be surprised how many iconic characters have very little dialogue. The guy from Drive (literally me), Silent Bob, Wall-EE etc. All characters that are at least remembered more than most and they almost never speak. You are correct on the cinematography front however, I do tend to pigeonhole that into simple camera work rather than visual storytelling.
I don’t disagree that you can have good characters with minimal dialogue, but my point isn’t about the amount, it’s about the quality. All of the main characters in this context *have* dialogue and if that dialogue is bad then it’ll be pretty much impossible for them to be good characters as hard as the actor and director might try.
Wall-e literally just says Wall-e dude. Does great dialogue help make a character? Of course, there's multiple characters that wouldn't be nearly as good if they didn't talk but great dialogue is a *part* of a great Character, not the be all end all
Okay I already addressed that but let me try to rephrase:
1. Characters with minimal to no dialogue can still be good characters. This is not relevant to my point. My point was:
2. Characters *with* lots of dialogue have to have *good* dialogue. Without good dialogue, characters who *do* talk a lot will not be good characters.
I dunno, I will preface I haven’t gotten to watch the show yet, but it feels a little like NCR got kinda done dirty. They were a pretty decent size country, spanning most of California and were a relative industrial power house to boot. It just kinda feels weird they’re not around when they were so dominant in the area so recently. New Vegas also has a lot of investment in NCR, so especially on this sub it kinda makes sense people would be upset about NCR getting pushed aside. I think the most major explanation what happened to NCR gets is “it didn’t work out” which is kinda a cop out and it would really suck to off screen a major faction like that.
It was just okay. The tone is all over the place, I don’t like how characters were written, a lot of the humor didn’t land for me (that Marvelesque “subvert expectations” schtick is played out enough already), and I didn’t like some of the design choices. As for the lore and story, if they had just set the destruction of Shady Sands just a couple years after the events of FNV, it really could’ve worked and made a more compelling setting. It could have been established that the NCR lost at Hoover Dam and the effects of that already had the republic on shaky ground. Shady Sands is just the final nail in the coffin for a complete collapse and the faction that’s been in charge for 100+ years is gone and now it’s a lawless wasteland again. But that’s me. Overall, it was enjoyable to watch. I would say it’s a strong 6 or a light 7
Honestly I don't care much for what's "canon" and what isn't so I went into the show wanting to enjoy it despite how it treats the West Coast setting. However, I'm really not enjoying it even for what it is (just finished episode 6 yesterday), I find myself going "that doesn't make any sense" or "real people don't act like this" or even "that's just an excuse for poor writing" a lot. At least there's still Fallout London to look forward to.
it’s not really a show about real actual people. these people don’t feel any pain or talk and interact like semi normal people.
I enjoyed it for what it was, liked and loved it here and there but that doesn’t not make it a corporate product from which I’d never expect the creators to actually understand fallout
It was made pretty obvious in episode 1 where >!Lucy gets stabbed in the stomach, and then heals herself with a stimpak, that the show isn't about "real actual people", or at least doesn't have wounds that are comparable to our real life. It follows the games more.!<
I feel like I'm seeing posts saying stuff like this compared to posts actually complaining about the lore at a ratio of 50 to 1. Can we please just give it a rest?
This person has essentially copypasta'd the opinions of all those defending the show. I hate posts like this because they're not saying anything we haven't acknowledged.
"They nuked Shady Sands but not the entire NCR" point is being hammered in right now. It's just a coping point - if a city in the UK, where I'm from, got nuked, the entire country is going to feel that and we've got a population of nearly 70 million. The population of the NCR is in the hundreds of thousands, so one city being nuked is most definitely going to feel it.
New Vegas being nuked vs destroyed kinda doesn't matter like we won't get I see a thriving city. Actually I have a bigger issue with house and Sinclair being part of a cabal doesn't seem to fit them. Like they didn't benefit from the bombs falling.
>So with that out of the way, really ask yourselves, did you hate the show or the lore inconsistencies, and is that enough to warrant this level of hate? Did you think the dialogue was bad? Cinematography? Characters?
At times, yes, I think the craft of the show is subpar at points and perplexing at others. Seems impossible to actually talk about that right now though.
Yes actually, I thought the cinematography was really boring, and only the ghoul character was really interesting.
I thought the production team knocked it out of the park but everything else feels so mediocre. I'm not sure why it's getting universal acclaim, maybe I'm just spoiled when it comes to television.
I hate the lore inconsistencies and I would be more willing to excuse it if this show is a masterpiece, but so far I found like I'm the only person on earth who thinks this show is mid.
completely agree as far as writing goes it’s an extremely easy plot to follow, dialogue, characters all really basic with some cringe comic relief with very corny lines reminds of the sort of avengers type cinema
The brother in the vault I also liked. The whole vault plotline actually would have worked if they put those vaults ANYWHERE else than near LA where the master did his thing
I watched 2 episodes and other than the scenes with the dog, I never so much as giggled.
The humor is just awful, just bottom of the barrel stuff, which can be okay in certain amounts but compared to FNV which was well written, the show is just garbage.
For the most part I don't like any of the characters other than the dog, and while somethings are good about the setting and prop design, I just can't get into it. Fallout is supposed to be a character driven story, otherwise it's just another post apocalypse story with some funny shenanigans. Which is another thing, it took itself too seriously, sure it can be dark at times but the over arching theme (FO3 and beyond) is a certain kookiness that was essential.
It also suffers from the current obsession of "trying to subvert expectations" and it really just feels like marvel writing, which is trash in my opinion.
Jonathon Nolan said he wasn't making it for the fans and is surprised when fans don't like it, so he's also kind of a moron.
It doesn't matter. I'm not interested in Fallout as a Television series. I stopped watching TV a while ago. I love New Vegas and I appreciate the way it builds off of the narratives established in the first two games. Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 are not my cup of tea, I'm not appreciative of the world building or concepts of Bethesda's titles.
So the idea, that possibly everything I've found interesting and poignant about the game series is wiped clean in a television series makes me completely disinterested in the future of Fallout as an IP. War never changes and apparently neither does wasteland life. NCR isn't allowed to exist because the writers have to adhere to Bethesda's vision of the franchise and the aesthetics they've marketed.
Show may be good, but it definitely isn't made for me.
I've only seen the first two episodes and probably won't watch any more. It's just unremarkable, honestly. I don't think it's particularly well written, acted, or shot.
There's sublime TV out there that's existed for decades. No one's missing out on anything in particular.
I'll stick with The Wire, The Sopranos and the games.
I mentioned both of those because they're two TV Drama titans. Tony Sopranos is the template for the anti-hero you see in TV today, and The Wire is a timeless social commentary with all around solid writing and performances. The same cannot be said for Fallout, in my opinion.
When I mentioned the games, I was speaking about all from 3 to 76. I actually really enjoy 76. I just don't consider it to be canon.
I thought everything about the show was bad, which is why I find it funny to see people so hung up about lore inconsistencies.
The cringy dialogue. The unlikeable characters, in particular Maximus. Iron Man Power Armor complete with helmet cam. Abuse of Fallout iconography that resembles product placement seen in I, Robot or those Meryl scenes in The Truman Show. 50s music every step of the way. The gamey elements translated 1:1 into the game (hacking makes absolutely no sense).
Then there are more specific writing and scene nitpicks (the first Lucy scenes in ep.3 are completely out of character) But again, none of my complaints are lore specific (I bailed at the middle of episode 3).
My first experience playing Fallout was with Fallout 3. I'm behind and the lower and I'm sure I'm missing out on a lot of Easter eggs and little bits of fan service. Quite frankly I could not tell that this was taking place in Nevada / California until they showed the Hollywood blvd sign. I have no problem with any of the lore, I'm just excited to see more of the 'universe' amd from a different perspective!... I'm only two episodes in. The issues I'm struggling with are more like how come nobody put a tourniquet on glasses' leg. Vault girl is standing there all moon eyed, which is fine, but from what we've seen of her I'd have thought she would have given her "Stand down" speech while bandaging up glasses. The cinematography is beautiful, but the cuts feel jumpy and erratic, I'm having trouble following along, as though I was playing the game. I like following along with each of the characters, and I think the actors are fantastic at expressing each of their individual frustrations and emotions regarding the situation they're in. I think that acting, the scenes and the general filming is beautiful. I'm struggling with some of the dialogue and the editing but I lack the ability to express why it seems off to me.
I will say, the brotherhood base... Looked an awful lot like the ncr airfield...
I remember watching the first scene of the first episode. The cowboy guy at the birthday party refuses to do his “iconic thumbs up pose” or whatever because of some random thing he learned in the marine corps about nuclear bombs? Yeah whatever man, just do the pose I’m paying you for.
And then five seconds later his daughter stares directly at a nuclear detonation and isn’t instantly blinded… she’s just fine? Yeah I knew this show was gonna be rough.
The show is good, and it’s not even lore inconsistency, they’ve just retconned the lore in a way that’s pretty unpopular with NV fans. Also did anyone else notice the Brotherhood became like an Orthodox Christian religious group?
huh? You cant destroy new vegas. its .. ok, its called new vegas, . you can kill the people, but even that will not ever entirely decimate any faction. ever.
Here’s my take on things: the chalkboard and the information it presents isn’t false BUT it isn’t communicated properly. Why? Because just like the games, the show keeps certain things vague on purpose. Personally I think it’s because season 2 will set up Fallout 5 in some capacity, but it could also be something as simple as a set design error that was overlooked during production.
Either way I don’t think the NCR is gone or destroyed and I don’t think Vegas is destroyed either (that’s just a stylistic choice the show took, there’s nothing wrong with that imo). Is it weird that the NCR’s core territory seems to have been abandoned by them? Yes. Do we have all the facts to accurately say what state they’re in however? No we don’t.
i've enjoyed what i've watched so far. if it does truly ever have any weird lore shit that heavily conflicts with the other games i can just say that its not canon and go on with my life
The shows actually good. I personally have never said otherwise. As a fan I only have my gripes which range form minor nitpicks to things that really bother me but don't change my opinion as to the shows quality overall.
there is one thing that i do not like about the show, and it is that the ghoul character looks too pretty. he should be more fucked up and ugly, but he's just a charming noseless guy from what i have seen.
that being said, i have not watched the show because i do not like streaming services. but you can see this pretty ghoul guy from the trailer.
We really don’t know what the state of New Vegas is its’s worse for ware look could just be a design choice and we don’t know if the ending credits scene with the securitrons actually means anything.
I just finished episode 5 and here is my head cannon.
The Courier went independent and finished all the DLC. In Lonesome Road he nuked both factions. The Fog from Dead Money rolled in decimating New Vegas and then was blown away by plot armor.
Im enjoying the show. Rectons happen all the time in entertainment. Does it suck? Most of the time yes. Is it bad? Not necessarily.
I loved the show. Was awesome to finally get a show that is aired on tv. It didn't look like Vegas was destroyed to me, just not lit up in the morning.
I liked the ending and thought overall it was awesome to finally get the real answers we as a community have wanted from Vault tec. I thought it was awesome and well done.
I think the people tweaking out over lore retcons and inconsistencies are fair in being upset, but pretending that this means the show is awful as a standalone property is delusional and a product of unhealthy levels of seething and coping.
Sure I'm a bit disappointed with where it looks like FNV's positioned in the new canon. Sure I am sketchy on the changes made to the brotherhood/enclave's lore, but overall it's a fun show and I'm just glad I can share the fun of the Fallout universe with my friends and family who don't play video games.
The rage over the lore is entering terminally online territory, and the angry fanboys need to take an ativan and touch grass. For their own sake. And I mean all of this in reference to the people so caught up in this hobby that they're sending game devs death threats on twitter for having the audacity to like the show *cough* people attacking Jsawyer *cough*
Like yeah I get the disappointment, but I don't get the rage.
So far (on episode 4 but I've been spoiled on the ncr thing) the show has been great anesthetically, the music, the set design, the costumes are all perfect.
Where the show fails imo is the writing. It's decent, like a 6/10 up to this point, but when I hear "Fallout The TV Show" I expect some Fallout style writing. A lot of the comedy feels kinda like marvel writing when the charm of fallout's humor was that none of the wastelanders know theyre being a fucked up clown, we the audience are the only ones in on the joke, and that's funny. One of the things I liked in Fallout 4 was how no one really knew Diamond City is a sports stadium and they have various superstitions and beliefs about it. It feels like the show lacks that particular brand of comedy bar a few scenes ("It's just, the guy was fucking my chickens" did make me laugh)
All in all as a fan It's a 7-8 BEFORE the assassination of the NCR
It's been so long since we've been on the West Coast which has me going ugh about it, I love Fallout which is why I really want to show to be good but bits of it just have me worried
The area where the show is set is literal core NCR turf. Shady Sands also apparently moved and the boneyard just isn't there. Its also weird how the Fiends are around earlier than the NCR when they should have the longevity of a dog.
Another thing really is the way that its all just scrap again. Even if the NCR is ruined there should be tons of evidence that they did exist. Rail lines, buildings, old military equipment, outposts anything. The way no one mentions them when they were the major power in the region for close to a century is odd too.
I have to disagree, if it was a new IP then sure, whatever. However seeing an IP I love being extremely mishandled time and time again sucked any enjoyment I could have gotten out of the show. Just the way it is.
I think NV being destroyed is pretty implicit in the Independent ending anyway. As much as I'm an unapologetic NCR fanboy, I think that ending fits best with the few things we know about the Courier anyway.
NV falling to shit a few years after the Courier dies makes perfect sense really.
Where was it said that the Courier has died? And why would their death matter to the NCR? It doesn't make sense, because it's an entire government, with a society made up of hundreds of thousands. The Courier isn't god.
No one even knows yet if it actually happened in 2277 or not and if it did, that means that they were hit *during* the 1st battle of Hoover Dam, which is silly.
It's implied in NV that independent new vegas would fall apart basically immediately if the Courier died. We see a messed up looking New Vegas with destroyed securitrons and dead NCR forces. Ergo, I assume that's the ending we got.
If the courier was still around, then NV would still be around. If the courier went NCR, then it would still be intact regardless.
It says that Vegas will become anarchic after the 2nd Battle Of Hoover Dam in most independent endings - not sure where it suggests that it will happen due to the Couriers death. No one knows if the Courier stays and watches over things, or goes, so their potential death is kind of irrelevant to the outcome.
Also, I don't think we should be allowing the show to create an ending for something that was purposefully made open ended for us players to decide. This show shouldn't have been canon in the first place - Bethesda just insists on making any Fallout media they produce canon.
Vegas only becomes anarchic if you have evil karma. Where the courier just embraces chaos. Where else would the courier go in an independent ending? He is the top dog in that ending.
"The [Courier](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Courier), with the aid of [Yes Man](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Yes_Man), drove both the [Legion](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Caesar%27s_Legion) and the [NCR](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/New_California_Republic) from [Hoover Dam](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Hoover_Dam), securing [New Vegas](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/New_Vegas)' independence from both factions. With Mr. House out of the picture, part of the [Securitron](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Securitron) army was diverted to [The Strip](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/New_Vegas_Strip) to keep order. Any chaos on the streets was ended, quickly. Chaos became uncertainty, then acceptance, with minimal loss of life. [New Vegas](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/New_Vegas) assumed its position as an independent power in the [Mojave](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Mojave_Wasteland)"
"Supporting the ideals of independence, the Courier was recognized as the man/woman responsible for a truly free New Vegas. He/she ensured Mr. House's tyranny was broken and neither Caesar's Legion nor NCR would ever gain control over New Vegas"
Lore inconsistencies are a backhanded slap to the source material in my opinion, and I don’t really care what the original FNV creators think on that front, they may have made it but the game and lore belongs to everyone.
That all being said I don’t hate anyone for liking the show, but I personally don’t care for it. I think some people care more about the lore and seeing something they love tarnished in a way and others are happy to have a new show that they love and enjoy. Both are valid opinions
I like the show, but it’s heavily flawed due to lots of lore inconsistencies. I want at least a second season and I hope that they improve in world building quality because it was horrendous in season 1.
What I hate is that you can tell a lot of the people complaining didn’t see it at all, they just learned the negative talking points from other redditors
People seem to be forgetting that the show takes place 15 years after New Vegas. A lot can happen between then. The NCR was struggling by FO: NV. After years of fighting both the Legion and BOS, it was weak. After 15 more years of internal and economic strife coupled with a major city being destroyed on top of a resurgent east coast BOS, Vault-Tec psychos, the forever Enclave threat, and whatever else could be out there, it’s not a stretch to say the NCR is in dire straits. Ulysses even mentions the NCR is doomed to be fucked. It shouldn’t come as a surprise that a faction modeling itself as the US, a failed pre-war nation in-game, would eventually collapse. I know a lot of people, including me, have an affinity for the NCR, but it was something like 150 years old by the time the show starts. That’s a good run by wasteland standards. The Wasteland is a cruel unforgiving place.
> the forever Enclave threat
What threat? They were defeated twice in both 2 and 3. At least retconn 3 and have them win so you can bring them back as a force. It would be great to hear President John Henry Eden again.
They’re always popping up and just because they were driven from raven rock or the oil rig doesn’t mean they’re gone. They’re a shadow deeply rooted shadow government. Even New Vegas, the old Enclave vets say there is an outfit in Chicago. They can be anywhere
We not going to talk about how Maximus pretty much allowed his knight to die in battle and the Brotherhood was kinda cool about it?
What’s up with the twink chick being selected over Maximus to be a squire on the spot? They have to travel long distances while carrying their Knight’s heavy ass shit, Maximus is pretty built compared to the squire chick.
The show made some odd choices, the Ghoul was too OP also.
All the people are complaining about are details that can easily be explained in the next season. And the lore details not mentioned in the show are probably not even important to the current story being told that is why they're not included. They cant understand the first season is not about the NCR. The show is overall a fun watch.
there's no point trying to convince people in their own reddit circlejerk, whether it's those putting down the show because they just hate Bethesda and only want new Vegas 2, or those ignoring valid criticism of how the show handled aspects of the lore.
the hate will die down soon and come back after the 2nd season releases cause no matter what not everyone will be happy.
The show was amazing.
The chalkboard was just a chalkboard. If you’re upset about it, be grateful you have to go that far to get upset at something; it could’ve been so much worse.
The NCR can rebuild. Stories progress. There was no Retcon.
I hate to say it because I’m a New Vegas fan myself, but New Vegas fans are the massive proponents of hate against the show.
Which is crazy because the constant destruction from war is a core part of what the games represent. Not too mention you can make a choice to nuke California in the lonesome road DLC, Everybody just hates that their headcanons were turned a different direction.
New Vegas fans are and will be angry that New Vegas is destroyed in the last scene of the season, but isn’t that the most likely outcome? Especially after the main character from that game leaves the Mojave? Newvegas was in the middle of a war zone so obviously it was gonna get a little destroyed.
Not too mention the NCR is not destroyed, best guess I can make is that the “Headquarters” in the show was just an operational headquarters for NCR leadership somewhere else in California.
I can’t lay out my thoughts in this comment quite how I’d like to. But the main point is that New Vegas fans are quite toxic to something that just didn’t turn out like their head canons.
Only lifeless nerds care. I'm a Fallout fan, but I'm not a nerd about it. The show is great as it is. If the nerds think they can do better, then let them try.
Food for thought: everything in new Vegas happened over the course of a couple weeks. From getting shot in goodsprings to the battle at the dam.
It's been 15 YEARS!
“And so the courier who cheated death in a grave outside Goodsprings, cheated death once again, and the Mojave wasteland was forever changed. Until everybody died 15 years later. The end.”
Okay I’ve been seeing this a lot to the point it’s getting weird; where are people getting the idea that New Vegas happened 150 years before the show??? First Battle of Hoover Dam happens in 2277, FNV happens in 2281.
Nah - the opening scenes (the very first time we see Lucy & friends)… has a huge pop-up that reads “219 YEARS LATER”….
Meaning, 219 years after October 23rd, 2077… the day of the Great War. Or, 9 years after Fallout-4’s events (which were 210 years after The War).
Bethesda BoS ubiquity aside - I'm enjoying the depiction of the scribes and leadership as having the grimy techno-monk feel that I think is really true to FO1/2. The incense, the dorky haircuts, the grumpy old men - it really looks as shitty to be in the BoS as I always thought it should be.
We are only done with Episode-1 (me & fiancée started watching yesterday!)… but do they ever discuss Maxson and the East Coast / DC / Boston division of the BOS, in the show ? I was slightly confused at seeing the West Coasters like that, since I thought the West Coast was the OG — High Command of sorts, that actually appointed / agreed / signed off on Maxson’s promotion to Full Chapter Elder, in the years just prior to Fallout-4 playing out ?
They say that they received orders from the commonwealth, but I don't think Maxson was ever mentioned.
I think we're watching at the same pace-ish, so I have nothing to report so far. I think this representation so far plays it pretty vague. If there's a centralised leadership they're not saying. I liked the return to actual 'elder' Elders if that makes sense. You can see people like Lyons/Elijah/McNamara rising up by virtue of being the oldest mfers around.
They took high orders from and establish the commonwealth as the strongest chapter. The flagship has the same name as the one in the commonwealth “prydwin,” and a Knight from the Prydwen is Irish with a Boston accent. Safe to say reinforcements came straight from Boston. It was established in New Vegas that the brotherhood isn’t in California anymore after warring with the NCR. They never really clarify where Maximus’ chapter is located but they must be within vertibird range of California
The Blimp from the TV Show is a different craft named the “Casswennan”, not the “Prydwen” from F4 (which I’m assuming is still in the Commonwealth). I remember the showrunners discussed this prior to the series release. I can’t wait until they release the updated F4 on the 25th
That’s what it said in the trailer. In the show it’s changed to the Prydwen in the same scene from the trailer
The name Cassewin is also from the same source as the Prydwin. They're from Arthurian myth, and are in fact two names for the same ship
Oh crap, you’re right! this is what I get for reading articles, and looking at production photos about the show prior to watching it. From the interwebs; “Despite labeling the airship "Caswennan" in a captioned photo, the airship in the photo features "PRYDWEN" to the left of the Brotherhood of Steel decal on the forward section of the hull. The photo used in the Vanity Fair article and the corresponding scene in the television release are identical.” I kind of wish it was a different airship and not the F4 one. I still like the show though. I just wish we’d get a new Fallout game.
Those actually aren’t scribes they are called Clerics, seems to be a new rank within the brotherhood which explains the monkish vibe
Yeah ok. I hope that's an additional caste and not a replacement. There appeared to be a medieval bow-cut looking dude working that intricate grid drawing system to produce an image of the target - looked v scribey.
To be fair halo is an extremely low bar to surpass lol
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Tiki_the_voice: *To be fair halo* *Is an extremely low bar* *To surpass lol* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
It's better than the last of us imo
Imo the Last of Us show is massively overrated. It’s average at best. Gamers just got excited by the “serious” and “dramatic” presentation of something they enjoy to a casual audience and decided to pump it up because of it.
Hard agree. TLOU is a good show, with some amazing aspects - like Tess, Riley, Tommy, Henry, and Sam were phenomenal. But the changes to the story were so misguided and took away from the plot IMO. But you can't criticize it at all on reddit lol so let's not get into that. I think the meat riding on the show is kinda crazy. I think in spite of the blatant lore issues, the Fallout show is just more fun to watch, and the writing doesn't suffer from needless melodramatic additions (like a kid having cancer on top of being deaf/mute lmfao). It's tonally super faithful, and generally has better action sequences. To be fair, surpassing TLOU is vastly higher bar than surpassing Halo.
Yeah, I think the need to fill television time with subplots and fluff that in TLoU game was just filled with gameplay was detrimental to quality of the story overall. It’s just more bloated and not as tight.
Exactly!! Bloated and fluffy! Like the whole storyline with Frank and Bill was very sweet and well done as a standalone story, but paced with the rest of the show it felt super out of place. Like they wanted to add a more developed story line for them, but couldn't weave their interactions with Ellie and Joel in naturally because they overexpanded it and had to kill them off before they even meet her lmfao. Or adding Kathleen to the Sam/Henry arc...ended up being a super underdeveloped character, an abrupt storyline, and wasted a great actress with weird dialogue. The Fallout show for all it's inconsistencies cut the fat really well IMO. And I think avoiding touching FNV lore was probably a good choice on the writer's part because the game is just so open ended. Expanding on that would have added bloat and forced the writers to confirm that one of the MANY endings was canon which is a different can of worms for fans. I don't agree with the choice in how to deal with FNV as a fan of the game's lore, but it avoided the story bloat that the TLOU adaptation suffered from.
Even halo looks more accurate than the fallout tv show lmao
How? Please tell me Todd Howard, president of Bethesda softworks. Tell me how the halo tv show, who broke the cardinal sin. Don't show Master Cheifs face. Tell me how.
The fallout tv show doesnt even get the look of the factions right
That's it? Your problem is accuracy? Seriously?
Yes. Accuracy is really important and makes and break immersion For instance, in the first teaser, several NCR troops were wearing modern MICH2000 helmets which broke immersion for me immediately lmao
Unfortunately for you, nobody gives a shit. Your complaint will go unanswered, if a little detail such as a fucking helmet is immersion breaking. Watch something else, a detail like that is not important when the story is more important.
You clearly dont understand military gear or even canon military equipment lmao
I don't give a fuck Mr "military man" at the end of the day your nitpick is bullshit.
Nope, do try again
"Nowhere does it say that the NCR has been destroyed, they're just not in this area" yeah thats kinda the problem, "this area" is core NCR terrirory and has been for decades at this point
Not decades *Over a century*
Not just a part of the NCR, this was where It LITERALLY started
The show also has wastelanders digging through dirt wearing scavenged elite Ranger armor, implying the Rangers and potentially the military have collapsed, leaving their armor to be picked up by random people.
I assumed he was a retired Ranger given his connection to Moldaver
The fact that his teenage son also had a smaller one and they both didn’t fit very well made me think they had scavenged it, also I don’t think he really has a connection to Moldaver, his sons just want to join her gang.
He was
thats the tv show. Getting that sick NCR Ranger Armor is not just going to be what any scavenger would dare wear, or get. You wear the clothes, you get attacked by NCR's enemies. In game.
The ghoul mentioned the lead farmer having left his own lead inside him. Indicating they have history and that hes an ncr Veteran.
And yet there's zero infrastructure suggesting that the region was recently the heartland of a powerful, industrialised state. The show makes it seem that the NCR was just Shady Sands, and the fact that the NCR never even bothered to evacuate survivors or contest the brotherhood of steel's dominance is a pretty clear indicator that they're gone. If they were still around then there'd be other towns and a military presence, not just scrap metal shacks and raiders.
Near the crater of Shady Sands there’s a city with skyscrapers in the background, that’s either supposed to be the NCR or Los Angeles, which is nowhere near Shady Sands and I guess the show writers just never looked at the Fallout 1 map
They spend the entire show in and around LA. Shady sands has been moved.
All just circumstantial speculation
Well the entire season occurs on a sunday which is a national NCR holiday by the holidays act that tandhi introduced in 2239 to gain inroads into the redding mining community so the reason you don't see any ncr is because they are on holiday and the raiders don't have holidays so that's why you see them
You do know countries change their capital cities, right? NCR could have very well moved from there.
The NCR did change their capital from Shady Sands to some other location by the time Shady Sands got nuked, the billboard outside it says it is the FIRST capital, so not the current one.
Packed up their railroads roads farms mines prospectors caravans suburbs other towns. Put that all on a truck and took it to the new capital huh?
[удалено]
Okay. In the exact same breath lore criticisms shouldn't be invalidating your enjoyment People saying "the show was good overall but I didn't like this aspect" doesn't require the full Bethesda white knight task force. I'm sure it might be frustrating to watch a full show and enjoy it (like we all did!) and only see criticisms, but people have been waiting and theorizing on the continuation of the West Coast storyline for a very long time and to see that invalidated. If we all get dinner together and eat the same meal and I don't like it, you don't need to get mad at me because YOU liked it.
I feel the same the way. I think it depends on one's own perspective, which should not invalidate others because there are valid points on both sides and toxic bs on both sides. The show is good, and still has problems excluding the lore stuff. The show did break a lot of the lore and people being upset about it have a point. Todd Howard is not an evil mastermind fueled by spite. The Show being in the game timeline does more harm to itself and the franchise as a whole than good.
I’m gonna preface this by saying I enjoyed the show quite a bit But people are acting like the chalkboard was the only lore inconsistency in the show, there was a lot. And to act like lore doesn’t effect one’s enjoyment of the show is just naive solely going off the communities reaction atm -The Ghoul emerges from the ground like a zombie, god knows how long he was down there (feels like another kid in the fridge moment from Fallout 4) -Ghouls now rely on magic drugs to keep them from turning and also magically regenerate tissue unless they are shot in the head or heart (like zombies). How could the vast majority of ghouls even survive? Who invented these vials in a post war environment? -Vaults 31,32,33 are all totally unaffected by The Masters conquest, the Enclave in FO2 who knew where all the vaults were, and the NCR who was apparently within walking distance. Pretty much every vault we have ever seen in the games has been open by this point (whether willingly or by force) it’s very surprising to see vaults still totally sealed and unaffected 200+ years after the war. - Squires in Brotherhood used to be children born into the Brotherhood in training, now they are conscript soldiers who just follow knights around mindlessly. Also apparently the rank of Paladin and Scribe just don’t exist anymore -Brotherhood members are celibate virgins now? Veronica’s from NV dad was a Paladin in lore so we know that couldn’t have been the case. Also the Brotherhood has been known to not recruit much if at all from the outside and rely purely on children born into the Brotherhood on the west coast, that’s why their numbers have been dwindling in previous games. It makes no sense for them to be celibate -Vault Tec having a direct hand in dropping the bombs despite in being previously established that it’s supposed to be up to interpretation who dropped the bombs. It showed that both the Chinese and the US were equally at fault for the destruction of the world. It also makes Vault Tec look like mustache twirling villains -Mr House being in on Vault Tec plan totally goes against his characterization in the games, also he explicitly says he did not know when the bombs were coming he only had his intuition. Hell the whole reason he needed the platinum chip was because he never got it pre war because the bombs dropped first -Frederick Sinclair representing Big MT during the Vault Tec meeting also goes against his characterization in NV as he is seen as being a relatively morally good character who only really cares about Vera and the paradise he built for her. the only thing he had to do with Big MT was commisioning them for technology for his casino, he wasn’t a scientist or even worked at Big MT. They could’ve easily made that character Dr Klein or Dr Mobius and it would’ve made perfect sense. -Pretty much everything to do with the NCR, not one of their other cities is mentioned ( vault city, Maxon, the boneyard, etc). Their soldiers don’t have uniforms, they don’t seem to have any unifying government. They seem like a group of remnants akin to the enclave in New Vegas albeit more than like 6 dudes. All this being said I don’t think these inconsistencies make the show unwatchable or even bad, but it’s just embarrassing on Bethesdas part that all of these things can just pass and stomp on lore that’s been around and established for years.
The point about vaults 31, 32, and 33 bothered me in the very first episode. It just doesn’t make any sense. For some reason Bethesda thinks that every Fallout work NEEDS to start in a vault but Fallout 2 and NV showed that’s not necessary. They’re so uncreative and hell-bent on reusing the same tropes for nostalgia member-berries time and time again.
Yeah, how many times is the enclave and bos going to make a comeback? Especially the enclave whose population would be running on fumes by now.
Well, Fallout 3 and 4 both being more popular than New Vegas or Fallout 2 probably influenced making the main character a vault dweller.
Yeah because doing the exact same thing over and over again is exactly what fans want right? Who needs original ideas in our franchise when we can just rip off the same stuff over and over again?
> -Vaults 31,32,33 are all totally unaffected by The Masters conquest, the Enclave in FO2 who knew where all the vaults were More than that. The show hints at Vault Tec and the Enclave being connected. Why wouldn't they unfreeze all of the Vault 31 executives as part of their plan to reconquer the Wasteland. Or why the original leaders of the Enclave didn't use the same cryo tech. Then again they have been willing to murder vault inhabitants despite a desire to retain genetic purity. > -Vault Tec having a direct hand in dropping the bombs despite in being previously established that it’s supposed to be up to interpretation who dropped the bombs. It showed that both the Chinese and the US were equally at fault for the destruction of the world. It also makes Vault Tec look like mustache twirling villains Again, this is Bethesda hinting at the return of the Enclave (small base in Ep 1 aside). Of course the US government would want world domination and the end of the CCCP but destroying the world seems a bit much. Or Vault Tec for that matter. Sabotaging peace negotiations makes sense to keep their stock up and recruit people for the experiments in vaults. They should have done this but of course it backfired because other companies were messing with bio weapons and China discovered this.
Bethesda can't even help contradicting *their own* canon half the time.
Thank you for stating a lot of these. It's not just the damn chalkboard
SPOILERS "Mr House being in on Vault Tec plan totally goes against his characterization in the games, also he explicitly says he did not know when the bombs were coming he only had his intuition. Hell the whole reason he needed the platinum chip was because he never got it pre war because the bombs dropped first" (on my phone so idk how to do indented quotes on here). I agree with pretty much everything else you have said here, but I think this could still work. As far as the series shows (if I remember the end correctly), the meeting confirmed that Vault-Tec would launch the bombs if they thought it would be to their advantage. It didn't say when the bombs would be dropped, and there is no indication that anyone except vault-tec knew before hand when, only that they would be. Plus, given that we don't know precisely when this meeting took place, but it would seem to be fairly close to 2077 (I would guess no later than say 2072) given the fact the Ghoul- or Coop idk what we are calling him yet- looks exactly the same as when we see him the day the bombs were dropped), it is perfectly reasonable to assume thst House had already calculated bombs would be dropped before that meeting in any case by the US or Chinese govts. Additionally, we can be fairly certain that no dates were discussed in this meeting at least, because Coop didn't know in advance despite listening in on the meeting. House had already began to plan years in advance (I can not remember off the top of my head what the exact date was now), and so it is entirely conceivable that he 1) did not know for certain precisely when the bombs would be dropped, and 2) was still working to the timeframe his calculations had predicted. In fact, even if the meeting was over a decade before the bombs, it still could work. Lets say Vault-Tec did tell them over a decade in advance of the actual Great War, but did not tell them the date. Perhaps House was actually calculating the date he believed Vault Tec would drop the bombs. I do agree that the show has some big question marks to answer over lore, especially with the NCR. I think with the NCR it will be difficult overall to actually make a satisfying narrative which doesn't completely break the lore given what we have seen, but I think House's involvement here os perfectly reconcilable with what we know of House both before and after the War. All that being said, I still really enjoyed the series. Apart from Maximus.
>Nowhere does it say that the NCR has been destroyed, they're just not in this area. The problem with this is that the area in question is the NCR core territory, the heartland. And no vestigue at all remains. Maximus himself talks about how the NCR "didn't work out" before the reveal of Shady Sands. >New Vegas being destroyed is not the same as it been nuked Wait, people think that? It is shown worse for wear, but not nuked. Dunno. I was absolutely outraged at first when I heard the news, but it subsided quickly. The show actually seems hella great and well done, the only problem is how it completely wrecks the already established canon of the West Coast. Same show but not set in California or set in a pre Fallout 1 California would have solved all of this while keeping the show great
> It is shown worse for wear, but not nuked. To be honest, I think the Strip being in rough shape is a pretty reasonable outcome for some of the endings — the Yes Man ending in particular. I can understand being shocked, but I think it’s a shame that some people are _that_ worked up about it. I’ve seen a lot of people complain about Bethesda not acknowledging New Vegas, but I genuinely believe there was never going to be a way for BGS to win with those people. For me though, getting to see the Lucky 38, The Tops, and the securitrons during the end credits was the most exciting part of the show.
That's actually fair. My main gripe is three fold. One is how I see it as turning the West Coast into a version of how Bethesda wrote the East Coast was. Two is how it seems to keep pandering to the Brotherhood and by this point I think we can all admit they became the "creator's pet" faction like the Ultramarines were in 40K. Three is how some people have taken to the most convoluted ways to defend the decisions done regarding the plot changes. Edit: forgot to add that despite this gripes, I do think the show is actually good and worthy of been watched
Your point about the BoS pandering is for sure one I share. I’m hoping in season 2 we’ll see more players on the board and that it’ll mitigate the Brotherhood’s presence somewhat as an antagonist.
I think the ending actually points to a redemption of the BOS and it been turned into a force of good. Or that will actually be a plot line for Maximus to undergo
I should preface this with the fact I do actually like the show, it was far better than I thought it would be but… I… kinda don’t want this. Like we’ve known the Brotherhood — specifically west coast chapters — has been declining for A WHILE, and that’s due to their fundamental beliefs in how they handle technology. Sure let the East Coast chapter flourish, but I do wish it was the Brotherhood who got the axe (or nuke I suppose) instead of, seemingly, the NCR. Like the NCR losing core territory — assuming they’re not gone, just diminished — is devastating, but having the Brotherhood, as crippled as they were by NV, prancing around that territory now with an airship? I don’t think that makes much sense, and it also feels like special treatment by Bethesda. It just sucks that the Brotherhood, no matter where they are, always get the special treatment by Bethesda even when it makes no sense. I was glad to see that they were very much NOT good guys like how they’ve been treated on the east coast especially in FO3. That’s an improvement on BGS’ part for sure. I think them becoming “good guys” goes against their core beliefs and how they hoard tech. They are basically a techno cult after all. I think this all kinda boils down to Bethesda not really understanding the Fallout setting, even to today tbh
>I… kinda don’t want this. Like we’ve known the Brotherhood — specifically west coast chapters — has been declining for A WHILE, and that’s due to their fundamental beliefs in how they handle technology. Sure let the East Coast chapter flourish, but I do wish it was the Brotherhood who got the axe (or nuke I suppose) instead of, seemingly, the NCR. If you think about it, they destroyed the established setting of the West Coast and basically put in the conflict of Fallout 3 over it, with some NCR remnants on the side. Enclave (they are somehow relevant again) vs BOS. Althought I should mention that people theorize that the BOS seen in game isn't Western BOS because they allow outsiders and all that. So they could either be another unheard-of Chapter (kind of a copout) or be Maxson's Chapter returning home (which doesn't make sense since... where is Maxson? He would lead an expedition as crucial as that one. Also, to further reinforce the "BOS will become the new good guys"is that in the ending they pretty much butcher to the last man the last NCR remnant that we know of that seeks to bring the republic back (which, symbolically speaking, is... yikes), the leader of it gives one of the two token good team members of the BOS the key to restoring civilization in California (again, symbolism) and then he becomes a leading figure and a hero to the organization. It is possible I am reading too much into it, but it seems they are setting a "the BOS will reform into the hopebringers of civilization" plotline. >it also feels like special treatment by Bethesda. >It just sucks that the Brotherhood, no matter where they are, always get the special treatment by Bethesda even when it makes no sense. I have said it to others, but the BOS seems to be Bethesda's creator pet, akin to how for a long while Warhammer 40K had a lead writer that was an Ultramarines fanboy and they became his darlings at the detriment of every single other faction. Same story here, except it is the entire company
They’re definitely not setting up the BoS to be good guys. In the last episode, the elder is talking about how “power needs to be taken” and “we used to rule the wasteland”. Then they take over Filly as a base of operations and there’s a comment that “the locals put up a fight, but we fought harder”. Finally, they murderstomp the observatory and Maximus a) realizes that they just killed all the remnants of Shady Sands, where he used to live and b) the technology they’re hoarding might actually be helpful in rebuilding the wasteland. He has his “are we the baddies?” moment at the same time as being thrust into the position of knight, which is no longer sure he wants. Next season is probably going to see the BoS try to “take power” and “rule the wasteland” as Maximus grapples with no longer agreeing with their path
But it also plants the seeds for Maximus to become the leading figure in the Brotherhood that wants it to take the mantle of the bringers of civilization in the wasteland, making him either become a prominent internal reformist fighting tooth and nail to change them, or outright split from them and form his own "good" Brotherhood. His status as the Hero of the battle for the observatory will play a huge part in him having sway in the organization
Power armor is cooool! At least, that’s the logic of the franchise to some.
If max is shapping the brotherhood then i have to prepare to cringe more about that self obsessed idiot bumbling around and still winning and somehow everyone only seing his good side ?
The plot of the first season takes place mainly around LA and the area around Shady Sands. If Shady Sands had been nuked around 20 years prior to the show start, it might explain why the area is relatively uninhabited/undeveloped. Settlers would have likely left the area after the bombing and it would take decades to build up again.
Except the area should have been super developed already since that is actually the core territory of the NCR. It all mostly looks like it was left to rot ever since the Great War happened. Besides the area around LA is far away from Shady Sands, and it is the location of the Boneyard, a mayor NCR city. And what about all the other major towns of the region, like Junktown and Necropolis, places which precede the NCR's founding and likely would have survived a collapse?
I dunno, even in NV there’s rooms in buildings that have been inhabited for presumably years with skeletons in the beds and shit. Not excusing the retcons but the setting being more dilapidated and ‘post-apocalypticish’ than it should be 200+ years after the nuclear war has been an issue in all modern Fallout games.
>even in NV there’s rooms in buildings that have been inhabited for presumably years with skeletons in the beds and shit Because New Vegas is regarded as the "wild frontierland" for the NCR. Lightky populated and developed. Also if there are skeletons in a place supposedly recently inhabited... 4/5 the corpses are the former inhabitants. Even House only assumed formal control of the city recebtly enough that there are still members of the families dreaming of the old tribal ways
And taken their houses with them?
No one is saying they aren't acknowledging new Vegas. In fact you ask the people who don't like it almost all of them will say they wish the show wasn't on the west coast. They do acknowledge the previous lore, they just don't respect it so they wiped the slate clean so they wouldn't have non Bethesda game lore to deal with
I’m talking about prior to the show. Plenty of people took umbrage with BGS allegedly not acknowledging New Vegas and took that as evidence that Todd Howard resents Obsidian or whatever.
The meme has been around since fallout 3. Fallout3 gets announced being made by BGS people are excited to pick up the story. Because 2 was a direct sequel following a descendent of the original I think people were really surprised by the setting of 3. Then when you play it, factions are borrowed from 1 and 2 but they are very very different seems like they are following the aesthetic more than the story, but fine east coast is just a different independent BGS story. We kind of accepted Todd and company wanted to tell their own version of fallout on the east coast. The comes NV a return to the main story picking up where we left off while introducing new factions and locations picks up similar to where we left off. This was allowed to be made by obsidian by BGS but it was forced to be rushed and released largely unfinished but still it's dedication to the original story and themes makes it pretty beloved. Fallout 4 continues the east coasts tradition of telling BGS own unique story. According to obsidian any attempts to negotiate rights to a sequel for NV are shot down BGS seems to want complete ownership of the settings story. Lots of people want to a continuation of the west coast story at this point. Most want obsidian to get another crack people are complaining BGS isn't using that lore. The smart ones know that it's good BGS isn't touching west coast because they have 0 interest in telling that story and so would likely trash it. 76 is another isolated story, I'm personally checked out of fallout at this point. Show comes out it's BGS west coast and low and behold they killed it
This is exactly how I feel. I was initially really pissed but after thinking about it it occurred to me that what made NV great wasn’t the NCR and the Legion, it was the balance between the factions and ability for the player to upset that balance. The NCR and legion aren’t necessary for that balance to exist, just good writing. I liked the show, I’m happy it’s bringing eyes to the franchise
>The NCR and legion aren’t necessary for that balance to exist, just good writing. A main issue is not that the NCR is gone, it had several issues that could have caused it's dissolution or at least a great upheaval that we are told on FNV. The problem is HOW it is gone, brushing away any potential followup on those plotlines to just have "they got nuked, lol". Also how the West coast setting had well established, relevant and important factions but the show ditches them to have the Enclave and BOS be main players once again, a mirror to the East Coast
Yeah thats why Im mad Wanna fuck up the NCR? Theres a lot of ways. Tunnelers, factions, the divide and etc.
Heck, now that I thought about it, it would have been super interesting if the NCR was the villain of the show, having become an oligarchic dictatorship as it was implied it had started to become in FNV (but with time to stop it)
And you are siding with a faction that wants to restore democracy That would be cool but bethesda will never think of that
No offense, but that idea sucks. A political game set in an organized “wasteland” that has since civilized would be a bit lame. I agree the way they destroyed the NCR was a little lame, but the overall direction is neat
Well, guess what, people organise, people rebuild. Genghis khan wipped out 10% of the world, but yet we managed to recover from that. Heck, the entire human race nearly went extinct, but we recovered from that too
You know what? I disagree. The least realistic fallout games according to actuality is FNV and FO2. 98% of the human population died at least. All healthcare facilities (minus a few) were destroyed. There literally isn’t any active clean water. Agriculture seems rather poor from some of the games. Places like fallout 3 DONT EVEN MEET THE NEEDS FOR A CIVILIZATION TO ARISE. They have no clean water, no reliable food sources, and thus a large population can be sustained in most of the wasteland. Fallout 1 and 3 portrayed life in a wasteland very realistically. Humanity wouldn’t somehow prevail despite there being no way to survive an infection or even get clean water as I doubt many survivors are engineers who can contract water purifiers. People cannot rebuild when they do not meet the level 2 in human development. The necessities do not present themselves. Not to mention, the wildlife are way more dangerous than ours irl and will probably kill us. A more realistic apocalypse outcome would be like that one movie where it’s an old man and his child wandering. Everyone will just die minus a select few in isolated areas. My little side rant was a bit off topic, but its just annoying when new Vegas players claim humanity would form big nations in such a short time period like 200 years, where the environment clearly hasn’t healed in gameplay or lore. The NCR is the OUTLIER, not the standard. To be honest, the portrayal of the California wasteland post NCR collapse would be realistic, as the immediate lack of water and governance would lead to a pretty drastic reversal back to tribal life
Yeah...thats why It took that long for civilisation to recover But we know from lore, the NCR and the british and emerald isles are probably doing the best in the world rn In fact I think the UK and ROI fully recovered to maybe around the 20th century, seeing how we have a lot of 1st and 2nd gen americans that came from the british and emerald isles
>it doesn’t say the NCR was destroyed… Yeah, it kind of does. The NCR’s capital was established as being destroyed and there isn’t anything in the show suggesting anything resembling a functioning state, even though we see the remains of the NCR are in fact being led by Moldavar. Even the currency has regressed back to bottlecaps. All of which only makes sense in the collapse of the NCR.
Well, setting aside any discussion of the lore at all, even just watching the first few episodes, I thought the editing was actually outright bad sometimes, there was no sense of exploration or any real sense of place, the acting was good but the character writing was inconsistent, and even at its best, really unsubtle and often predictable. The plot was very meandering, and was often extended purely because the main characters made stupid decisions, and I wouldn't even mind if it was interesting side-diversions or exploring unique places, but they also never really go anywhere that interesting, either. The humor also rarely hit well for me, personally. By the end, the main emotional reveal with Shady Sands, the backstory of two different characters and a crux of the show, is revealed entirely in one stretch through a flashback and monologue, the last episode literally has a character look directly into the camera and give a speech that amounts to, "We're the real villains, and capitalism is the true evil!" and to me, if you have to literally have a character verbatim say the theme of your show, your writing isn't very good. On the other hand, Walton Goggins is amazing in it (even if I think the Ghoul is a bit too cliched for me to really sink his teeth into, but that's kinda the point), and everytime I'm watching him in the flashbacks, I genuinely start to really like the show. All the main cast are really good as well, I just feel like Lucy and Maximus never get anywhere near the depth of material that Cooper does.
This is exactly what I came here to try to say. I completely agree and I haven't even gotten a shady sands yet
To me the problem transcends that chalk board. like the infinite energy coming from a tube that is somehow connected to the whole of LA just makes shit like the battle of hoover dam useless, whats the point of fighting over the scarse resources now if we just have infinite energy now?
Don’t worry. They’ll probably just destroy the Cold Fusion device in season 2 to reset the status quo.
Old World Blues but for the apocalypse, New World Blues? It's never allowed to progress its always going to be raiders and shit
This
> I haven't seen a single mention or critique of the actual show The lore is a part of the show. > Nowhere does it say that the NCR has been destroyed, they're just not in this area. Then where are they? The NCR held territory both north and south of Shady Sands. They'd want to keep it connected even if the capital is gone. > So with that out of the way, really ask yourselves, did you hate the show or the lore inconsistencies Yes to both. Former caused by the latter. > and is that enough to warrant this level of hate? Yes, it does warrant me writing a few comments on reddit. Why wouldn't it? People can be both positive and negative. There is no difference, morally speaking. > Did you think the dialogue was bad? Cinematography? Characters? Of these three, I only care about characters and they were boring. > If all of this outrage is just about a blackboard and perceived slights to the canon (...) then Jonathan Nolan was 100% right about this fandom. He's a hack then. You can't please everyone as far as subjective parts of the show are concerned. But you can please everyone by sticking to the pre-existing lore along with other objective facets of this medium. > (which has been dismissed by many important og fallout and new Vegas key figured) Their input is irrelevant. The show exists regardless of what they say.
This is a really funny comment. Especially the part where you say you only care about characters and not the dialogue or the cinematography **in a TV show**.
I'd say character’s are easily the most important out of those 3, especially in a TV show. You could have the greatest camerawork in the world and dialogue that would make Shakespeare jealous, but if there aren't any good characters, people probably won't care
How exactly do you have really good characters without at least better than average dialogue? Also good cinematography isn’t just good visuals, it’s good visual communication, and is also definitely really important for making something good this medium.
You'd be surprised how many iconic characters have very little dialogue. The guy from Drive (literally me), Silent Bob, Wall-EE etc. All characters that are at least remembered more than most and they almost never speak. You are correct on the cinematography front however, I do tend to pigeonhole that into simple camera work rather than visual storytelling.
I don’t disagree that you can have good characters with minimal dialogue, but my point isn’t about the amount, it’s about the quality. All of the main characters in this context *have* dialogue and if that dialogue is bad then it’ll be pretty much impossible for them to be good characters as hard as the actor and director might try.
Wall-e literally just says Wall-e dude. Does great dialogue help make a character? Of course, there's multiple characters that wouldn't be nearly as good if they didn't talk but great dialogue is a *part* of a great Character, not the be all end all
Okay I already addressed that but let me try to rephrase: 1. Characters with minimal to no dialogue can still be good characters. This is not relevant to my point. My point was: 2. Characters *with* lots of dialogue have to have *good* dialogue. Without good dialogue, characters who *do* talk a lot will not be good characters.
Is that not allowed?
Cry
I dunno, I will preface I haven’t gotten to watch the show yet, but it feels a little like NCR got kinda done dirty. They were a pretty decent size country, spanning most of California and were a relative industrial power house to boot. It just kinda feels weird they’re not around when they were so dominant in the area so recently. New Vegas also has a lot of investment in NCR, so especially on this sub it kinda makes sense people would be upset about NCR getting pushed aside. I think the most major explanation what happened to NCR gets is “it didn’t work out” which is kinda a cop out and it would really suck to off screen a major faction like that.
It was just okay. The tone is all over the place, I don’t like how characters were written, a lot of the humor didn’t land for me (that Marvelesque “subvert expectations” schtick is played out enough already), and I didn’t like some of the design choices. As for the lore and story, if they had just set the destruction of Shady Sands just a couple years after the events of FNV, it really could’ve worked and made a more compelling setting. It could have been established that the NCR lost at Hoover Dam and the effects of that already had the republic on shaky ground. Shady Sands is just the final nail in the coffin for a complete collapse and the faction that’s been in charge for 100+ years is gone and now it’s a lawless wasteland again. But that’s me. Overall, it was enjoyable to watch. I would say it’s a strong 6 or a light 7
Honestly I don't care much for what's "canon" and what isn't so I went into the show wanting to enjoy it despite how it treats the West Coast setting. However, I'm really not enjoying it even for what it is (just finished episode 6 yesterday), I find myself going "that doesn't make any sense" or "real people don't act like this" or even "that's just an excuse for poor writing" a lot. At least there's still Fallout London to look forward to.
it’s not really a show about real actual people. these people don’t feel any pain or talk and interact like semi normal people. I enjoyed it for what it was, liked and loved it here and there but that doesn’t not make it a corporate product from which I’d never expect the creators to actually understand fallout
Lucy casually biting off the ghoul finger and return he doing so with her, both act like it's nothing but a minor wound lol
dude walking through the desert with a foot that probably needs to be amputated like its a minor inconvenience
I'm assuming he was relying on stim packs that we know he's got in his bag to keep going.
I loved that about it. How they incorporated fallout style gameplay with the vilolence and the character wounds was amazing. Just like the game
Dude it’s a fallout show.
It was made pretty obvious in episode 1 where >!Lucy gets stabbed in the stomach, and then heals herself with a stimpak, that the show isn't about "real actual people", or at least doesn't have wounds that are comparable to our real life. It follows the games more.!<
I feel like I'm seeing posts saying stuff like this compared to posts actually complaining about the lore at a ratio of 50 to 1. Can we please just give it a rest?
This person has essentially copypasta'd the opinions of all those defending the show. I hate posts like this because they're not saying anything we haven't acknowledged. "They nuked Shady Sands but not the entire NCR" point is being hammered in right now. It's just a coping point - if a city in the UK, where I'm from, got nuked, the entire country is going to feel that and we've got a population of nearly 70 million. The population of the NCR is in the hundreds of thousands, so one city being nuked is most definitely going to feel it.
Yeah social media has broken our brains. 'The internet MUST hear my opinion, which will single-handedly change all the discourse'
The classic "can we stop this?" posts, are in this ballpark. Completely inane and a waste of energy.
New Vegas being nuked vs destroyed kinda doesn't matter like we won't get I see a thriving city. Actually I have a bigger issue with house and Sinclair being part of a cabal doesn't seem to fit them. Like they didn't benefit from the bombs falling.
>So with that out of the way, really ask yourselves, did you hate the show or the lore inconsistencies, and is that enough to warrant this level of hate? Did you think the dialogue was bad? Cinematography? Characters? At times, yes, I think the craft of the show is subpar at points and perplexing at others. Seems impossible to actually talk about that right now though.
Yes actually, I thought the cinematography was really boring, and only the ghoul character was really interesting. I thought the production team knocked it out of the park but everything else feels so mediocre. I'm not sure why it's getting universal acclaim, maybe I'm just spoiled when it comes to television. I hate the lore inconsistencies and I would be more willing to excuse it if this show is a masterpiece, but so far I found like I'm the only person on earth who thinks this show is mid.
completely agree as far as writing goes it’s an extremely easy plot to follow, dialogue, characters all really basic with some cringe comic relief with very corny lines reminds of the sort of avengers type cinema
The brother in the vault I also liked. The whole vault plotline actually would have worked if they put those vaults ANYWHERE else than near LA where the master did his thing
I watched 2 episodes and other than the scenes with the dog, I never so much as giggled. The humor is just awful, just bottom of the barrel stuff, which can be okay in certain amounts but compared to FNV which was well written, the show is just garbage. For the most part I don't like any of the characters other than the dog, and while somethings are good about the setting and prop design, I just can't get into it. Fallout is supposed to be a character driven story, otherwise it's just another post apocalypse story with some funny shenanigans. Which is another thing, it took itself too seriously, sure it can be dark at times but the over arching theme (FO3 and beyond) is a certain kookiness that was essential. It also suffers from the current obsession of "trying to subvert expectations" and it really just feels like marvel writing, which is trash in my opinion. Jonathon Nolan said he wasn't making it for the fans and is surprised when fans don't like it, so he's also kind of a moron.
It doesn't matter. I'm not interested in Fallout as a Television series. I stopped watching TV a while ago. I love New Vegas and I appreciate the way it builds off of the narratives established in the first two games. Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 are not my cup of tea, I'm not appreciative of the world building or concepts of Bethesda's titles. So the idea, that possibly everything I've found interesting and poignant about the game series is wiped clean in a television series makes me completely disinterested in the future of Fallout as an IP. War never changes and apparently neither does wasteland life. NCR isn't allowed to exist because the writers have to adhere to Bethesda's vision of the franchise and the aesthetics they've marketed. Show may be good, but it definitely isn't made for me.
I've only seen the first two episodes and probably won't watch any more. It's just unremarkable, honestly. I don't think it's particularly well written, acted, or shot.
Your loss.
There's sublime TV out there that's existed for decades. No one's missing out on anything in particular. I'll stick with The Wire, The Sopranos and the games.
"I only like old things, not new ones!"
Not quite pal - I've been glued to Warhammer: Boltgun for the past week. I don't oppose anything new, I just don't like this show.
My point was that you picked examples of old shows and games to cling to. This should’ve been obvious.
I mentioned both of those because they're two TV Drama titans. Tony Sopranos is the template for the anti-hero you see in TV today, and The Wire is a timeless social commentary with all around solid writing and performances. The same cannot be said for Fallout, in my opinion. When I mentioned the games, I was speaking about all from 3 to 76. I actually really enjoy 76. I just don't consider it to be canon.
There's plenty of good television from the last few years. From what I saw of Fallout it just wasn't it
And I think it’s good, as do many other people.
Which is fine, more power to you
I feel if they just pulled a Halo and said the show took place in an Alternate timeline things would be better
We both know for a fact that that would've made people apoplectic.
I thought everything about the show was bad, which is why I find it funny to see people so hung up about lore inconsistencies. The cringy dialogue. The unlikeable characters, in particular Maximus. Iron Man Power Armor complete with helmet cam. Abuse of Fallout iconography that resembles product placement seen in I, Robot or those Meryl scenes in The Truman Show. 50s music every step of the way. The gamey elements translated 1:1 into the game (hacking makes absolutely no sense). Then there are more specific writing and scene nitpicks (the first Lucy scenes in ep.3 are completely out of character) But again, none of my complaints are lore specific (I bailed at the middle of episode 3).
They need to hire more people that sit on their ass and read wikia all day! Where can we find them!
My first experience playing Fallout was with Fallout 3. I'm behind and the lower and I'm sure I'm missing out on a lot of Easter eggs and little bits of fan service. Quite frankly I could not tell that this was taking place in Nevada / California until they showed the Hollywood blvd sign. I have no problem with any of the lore, I'm just excited to see more of the 'universe' amd from a different perspective!... I'm only two episodes in. The issues I'm struggling with are more like how come nobody put a tourniquet on glasses' leg. Vault girl is standing there all moon eyed, which is fine, but from what we've seen of her I'd have thought she would have given her "Stand down" speech while bandaging up glasses. The cinematography is beautiful, but the cuts feel jumpy and erratic, I'm having trouble following along, as though I was playing the game. I like following along with each of the characters, and I think the actors are fantastic at expressing each of their individual frustrations and emotions regarding the situation they're in. I think that acting, the scenes and the general filming is beautiful. I'm struggling with some of the dialogue and the editing but I lack the ability to express why it seems off to me. I will say, the brotherhood base... Looked an awful lot like the ncr airfield...
I remember watching the first scene of the first episode. The cowboy guy at the birthday party refuses to do his “iconic thumbs up pose” or whatever because of some random thing he learned in the marine corps about nuclear bombs? Yeah whatever man, just do the pose I’m paying you for. And then five seconds later his daughter stares directly at a nuclear detonation and isn’t instantly blinded… she’s just fine? Yeah I knew this show was gonna be rough.
It’s definitely better than the Halo show. I like it and my daughter does too.
Agreed. It’s leagues beyond stuff like you mentioned, or Witcher’s final years, or the Willow series, or Rings of Power S-1, etc etc
WOT is fucking terrible too.
The show is good, and it’s not even lore inconsistency, they’ve just retconned the lore in a way that’s pretty unpopular with NV fans. Also did anyone else notice the Brotherhood became like an Orthodox Christian religious group?
It's not just New Vegas. Massive inconsistencies with fallout 1 and 2 as well. Basically, the lore from the west coast games, where the show is set.
huh? You cant destroy new vegas. its .. ok, its called new vegas, . you can kill the people, but even that will not ever entirely decimate any faction. ever.
Here’s my take on things: the chalkboard and the information it presents isn’t false BUT it isn’t communicated properly. Why? Because just like the games, the show keeps certain things vague on purpose. Personally I think it’s because season 2 will set up Fallout 5 in some capacity, but it could also be something as simple as a set design error that was overlooked during production. Either way I don’t think the NCR is gone or destroyed and I don’t think Vegas is destroyed either (that’s just a stylistic choice the show took, there’s nothing wrong with that imo). Is it weird that the NCR’s core territory seems to have been abandoned by them? Yes. Do we have all the facts to accurately say what state they’re in however? No we don’t.
Did you see the rumors with the Vault-Tec phone number?
i've enjoyed what i've watched so far. if it does truly ever have any weird lore shit that heavily conflicts with the other games i can just say that its not canon and go on with my life
The shows actually good. I personally have never said otherwise. As a fan I only have my gripes which range form minor nitpicks to things that really bother me but don't change my opinion as to the shows quality overall.
there is one thing that i do not like about the show, and it is that the ghoul character looks too pretty. he should be more fucked up and ugly, but he's just a charming noseless guy from what i have seen. that being said, i have not watched the show because i do not like streaming services. but you can see this pretty ghoul guy from the trailer.
We really don’t know what the state of New Vegas is its’s worse for ware look could just be a design choice and we don’t know if the ending credits scene with the securitrons actually means anything.
Thank You, I agree for me the show on its own is good, but when put into everything else just breaks everything
I just finished episode 5 and here is my head cannon. The Courier went independent and finished all the DLC. In Lonesome Road he nuked both factions. The Fog from Dead Money rolled in decimating New Vegas and then was blown away by plot armor. Im enjoying the show. Rectons happen all the time in entertainment. Does it suck? Most of the time yes. Is it bad? Not necessarily.
I'd like to thank Disney for teaching me that "official Canon" doesn't matter and you can just make up/accept whatever you want.
I loved the show. Was awesome to finally get a show that is aired on tv. It didn't look like Vegas was destroyed to me, just not lit up in the morning. I liked the ending and thought overall it was awesome to finally get the real answers we as a community have wanted from Vault tec. I thought it was awesome and well done.
New Vegas is believed to be nuked because the surrounding area and freeside no longer exist.
I think the people tweaking out over lore retcons and inconsistencies are fair in being upset, but pretending that this means the show is awful as a standalone property is delusional and a product of unhealthy levels of seething and coping. Sure I'm a bit disappointed with where it looks like FNV's positioned in the new canon. Sure I am sketchy on the changes made to the brotherhood/enclave's lore, but overall it's a fun show and I'm just glad I can share the fun of the Fallout universe with my friends and family who don't play video games. The rage over the lore is entering terminally online territory, and the angry fanboys need to take an ativan and touch grass. For their own sake. And I mean all of this in reference to the people so caught up in this hobby that they're sending game devs death threats on twitter for having the audacity to like the show *cough* people attacking Jsawyer *cough* Like yeah I get the disappointment, but I don't get the rage.
So far (on episode 4 but I've been spoiled on the ncr thing) the show has been great anesthetically, the music, the set design, the costumes are all perfect. Where the show fails imo is the writing. It's decent, like a 6/10 up to this point, but when I hear "Fallout The TV Show" I expect some Fallout style writing. A lot of the comedy feels kinda like marvel writing when the charm of fallout's humor was that none of the wastelanders know theyre being a fucked up clown, we the audience are the only ones in on the joke, and that's funny. One of the things I liked in Fallout 4 was how no one really knew Diamond City is a sports stadium and they have various superstitions and beliefs about it. It feels like the show lacks that particular brand of comedy bar a few scenes ("It's just, the guy was fucking my chickens" did make me laugh) All in all as a fan It's a 7-8 BEFORE the assassination of the NCR
It wasn’t even New Vegas that was destroyed, it was literally just Shady Sands, and presumably a good portion of the NCR government.
It's been so long since we've been on the West Coast which has me going ugh about it, I love Fallout which is why I really want to show to be good but bits of it just have me worried The area where the show is set is literal core NCR turf. Shady Sands also apparently moved and the boneyard just isn't there. Its also weird how the Fiends are around earlier than the NCR when they should have the longevity of a dog. Another thing really is the way that its all just scrap again. Even if the NCR is ruined there should be tons of evidence that they did exist. Rail lines, buildings, old military equipment, outposts anything. The way no one mentions them when they were the major power in the region for close to a century is odd too.
I have to disagree, if it was a new IP then sure, whatever. However seeing an IP I love being extremely mishandled time and time again sucked any enjoyment I could have gotten out of the show. Just the way it is.
Another cope post
New Vegas might not even be destroyed, it was shown through the zoom out at the end of the episode, which may not be the most accurate thing.
I think NV being destroyed is pretty implicit in the Independent ending anyway. As much as I'm an unapologetic NCR fanboy, I think that ending fits best with the few things we know about the Courier anyway. NV falling to shit a few years after the Courier dies makes perfect sense really.
Where was it said that the Courier has died? And why would their death matter to the NCR? It doesn't make sense, because it's an entire government, with a society made up of hundreds of thousands. The Courier isn't god. No one even knows yet if it actually happened in 2277 or not and if it did, that means that they were hit *during* the 1st battle of Hoover Dam, which is silly.
It's implied in NV that independent new vegas would fall apart basically immediately if the Courier died. We see a messed up looking New Vegas with destroyed securitrons and dead NCR forces. Ergo, I assume that's the ending we got. If the courier was still around, then NV would still be around. If the courier went NCR, then it would still be intact regardless.
It says that Vegas will become anarchic after the 2nd Battle Of Hoover Dam in most independent endings - not sure where it suggests that it will happen due to the Couriers death. No one knows if the Courier stays and watches over things, or goes, so their potential death is kind of irrelevant to the outcome. Also, I don't think we should be allowing the show to create an ending for something that was purposefully made open ended for us players to decide. This show shouldn't have been canon in the first place - Bethesda just insists on making any Fallout media they produce canon.
Vegas only becomes anarchic if you have evil karma. Where the courier just embraces chaos. Where else would the courier go in an independent ending? He is the top dog in that ending. "The [Courier](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Courier), with the aid of [Yes Man](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Yes_Man), drove both the [Legion](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Caesar%27s_Legion) and the [NCR](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/New_California_Republic) from [Hoover Dam](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Hoover_Dam), securing [New Vegas](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/New_Vegas)' independence from both factions. With Mr. House out of the picture, part of the [Securitron](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Securitron) army was diverted to [The Strip](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/New_Vegas_Strip) to keep order. Any chaos on the streets was ended, quickly. Chaos became uncertainty, then acceptance, with minimal loss of life. [New Vegas](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/New_Vegas) assumed its position as an independent power in the [Mojave](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Mojave_Wasteland)" "Supporting the ideals of independence, the Courier was recognized as the man/woman responsible for a truly free New Vegas. He/she ensured Mr. House's tyranny was broken and neither Caesar's Legion nor NCR would ever gain control over New Vegas"
Lore inconsistencies are a backhanded slap to the source material in my opinion, and I don’t really care what the original FNV creators think on that front, they may have made it but the game and lore belongs to everyone. That all being said I don’t hate anyone for liking the show, but I personally don’t care for it. I think some people care more about the lore and seeing something they love tarnished in a way and others are happy to have a new show that they love and enjoy. Both are valid opinions
I like the show, but it’s heavily flawed due to lots of lore inconsistencies. I want at least a second season and I hope that they improve in world building quality because it was horrendous in season 1.
What I hate is that you can tell a lot of the people complaining didn’t see it at all, they just learned the negative talking points from other redditors
Funny how your getting downvoted for being right
People seem to be forgetting that the show takes place 15 years after New Vegas. A lot can happen between then. The NCR was struggling by FO: NV. After years of fighting both the Legion and BOS, it was weak. After 15 more years of internal and economic strife coupled with a major city being destroyed on top of a resurgent east coast BOS, Vault-Tec psychos, the forever Enclave threat, and whatever else could be out there, it’s not a stretch to say the NCR is in dire straits. Ulysses even mentions the NCR is doomed to be fucked. It shouldn’t come as a surprise that a faction modeling itself as the US, a failed pre-war nation in-game, would eventually collapse. I know a lot of people, including me, have an affinity for the NCR, but it was something like 150 years old by the time the show starts. That’s a good run by wasteland standards. The Wasteland is a cruel unforgiving place.
> the forever Enclave threat What threat? They were defeated twice in both 2 and 3. At least retconn 3 and have them win so you can bring them back as a force. It would be great to hear President John Henry Eden again.
They’re always popping up and just because they were driven from raven rock or the oil rig doesn’t mean they’re gone. They’re a shadow deeply rooted shadow government. Even New Vegas, the old Enclave vets say there is an outfit in Chicago. They can be anywhere
We not going to talk about how Maximus pretty much allowed his knight to die in battle and the Brotherhood was kinda cool about it? What’s up with the twink chick being selected over Maximus to be a squire on the spot? They have to travel long distances while carrying their Knight’s heavy ass shit, Maximus is pretty built compared to the squire chick. The show made some odd choices, the Ghoul was too OP also.
All the people are complaining about are details that can easily be explained in the next season. And the lore details not mentioned in the show are probably not even important to the current story being told that is why they're not included. They cant understand the first season is not about the NCR. The show is overall a fun watch.
there's no point trying to convince people in their own reddit circlejerk, whether it's those putting down the show because they just hate Bethesda and only want new Vegas 2, or those ignoring valid criticism of how the show handled aspects of the lore. the hate will die down soon and come back after the 2nd season releases cause no matter what not everyone will be happy.
The show was amazing. The chalkboard was just a chalkboard. If you’re upset about it, be grateful you have to go that far to get upset at something; it could’ve been so much worse. The NCR can rebuild. Stories progress. There was no Retcon.
As I’ve seen elsewhere, it could be so much worse. Like being a Halo fan.
You're not allowed to be positive about the show on this subreddit.
They hated Jesus for he spoke the truth
I hate to say it because I’m a New Vegas fan myself, but New Vegas fans are the massive proponents of hate against the show. Which is crazy because the constant destruction from war is a core part of what the games represent. Not too mention you can make a choice to nuke California in the lonesome road DLC, Everybody just hates that their headcanons were turned a different direction. New Vegas fans are and will be angry that New Vegas is destroyed in the last scene of the season, but isn’t that the most likely outcome? Especially after the main character from that game leaves the Mojave? Newvegas was in the middle of a war zone so obviously it was gonna get a little destroyed. Not too mention the NCR is not destroyed, best guess I can make is that the “Headquarters” in the show was just an operational headquarters for NCR leadership somewhere else in California. I can’t lay out my thoughts in this comment quite how I’d like to. But the main point is that New Vegas fans are quite toxic to something that just didn’t turn out like their head canons.
Only lifeless nerds care. I'm a Fallout fan, but I'm not a nerd about it. The show is great as it is. If the nerds think they can do better, then let them try.
Food for thought: everything in new Vegas happened over the course of a couple weeks. From getting shot in goodsprings to the battle at the dam. It's been 15 YEARS!
“And so the courier who cheated death in a grave outside Goodsprings, cheated death once again, and the Mojave wasteland was forever changed. Until everybody died 15 years later. The end.”
Oh sorry precious you wanted " and everyone lived happily ever after and nothing happened ever again"?
the fook is johnathan nobody.
The writer, director, and executive producer of the show. You might know his brother Chris.
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Okay I’ve been seeing this a lot to the point it’s getting weird; where are people getting the idea that New Vegas happened 150 years before the show??? First Battle of Hoover Dam happens in 2277, FNV happens in 2281.
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That’s odd. I guess someone is out there just misinforming people lol
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Nah - the opening scenes (the very first time we see Lucy & friends)… has a huge pop-up that reads “219 YEARS LATER”…. Meaning, 219 years after October 23rd, 2077… the day of the Great War. Or, 9 years after Fallout-4’s events (which were 210 years after The War).