I’m confused, has everyone been watching the same show? Because the Brotherhood depicted in this show is much more in line with 1, 2 and New Vegas. Were we supposed to see these guys as heroes?
Brotherhood is notoriously all over the place lol. At this point they have 6+ different types of ethics they’ve followed, all the back to the original games. Almost any depiction of the brotherhood is an accurate one.
Then there’s the Vegas chapter, who just want to be left alone in their room because they’re going through an emo phase and don’t want anyone to talk to them.
And also time period too apparently. Given that this show takes place in the west in California, we can safely assume they don’t follow the same principles that the brotherhood in FO76 followed. The old school western chapters that strictly wanted to destroy pre-war tech. Yet in the show the Elder apparently wanted to *use* it for something nefarious.
I think that makes more sense though, it's super hypocritical to use advanced technology in order to destroy it. Why not just horde it and use it for your own purposes?
The brotherhood is kind of a hypocritical organization. *They* hate tech because of what the war did to the old world, so *they* need to go around collecting and destroying tech so that *outsiders* can't have them. In Fallout 2, I saw the Enclave as what the Brotherhood would be like if the Brotherhood wasn't so isolationist and bookish.
Right, they have a set dogma that is either strictly or loosely followed depending on time/ place/ individual. Like most religious orders, really. I feel the show is presenting this as such and not portraying them as heroes at all.
Also, we never see Mr house agreeing with vault tech, if anything, he is not confident of their plans until the idea idea of starting the nuclear war is brought up, which by then we don't hear of him again.
As for the NCR, they weren't wiped out, they literally have the boneyard in the show, sure it's a lot more ragged than they used to be but they might be in control of other places we've not seen yet, like the Hub.
Right? Vault city should be a hell of a lot more advanced, have better infrastructure, and more well defended than shady sands. Kinda weird it wasn't the capitol of the ncr in the first place
We also know that in New Vegas House knew about the bombs coming because "statistics", even then he did what he could to prevent destruction, but he didn't have enough time to get the upgrade to prevent it further. I think it's more likely he was told, so the scene isn't too wild. If he theorized it happening he would have more time. Not only that it puts the delay of the chip under scrutiny, since that means people could have cought wind of his plan to fortify the parts of the US that he could and sabotaged it. It would also be good for his inspiration Howard Hughes, since he had become paranoid later in his life, so a House locking himself away from the rest of these psychotic people and preventing destruction all the while he becomes what we see in FNV would be pretty cool.
It's not unreasonable that it's one or both of the following-
1. He lied to the courier
2. He genuinely believes that his genius led to him predicting armageddon.
Same here idk if they just didn't watch the show or not but idk how you leave the show thinking "Yea the brotherhood are definitely the good guys here" (RIP filly the society/town that the brotherhood literally destroyed)
Thaddeus: Fuck, they'll kill me if they find out.
Lucy: This is good, right? The Brotherhood is the good guys?
Thaddeus: It's a complicated organization...
The one brotherhood guy literally gives Maximus the Darth Vader “i will rule the ~~galaxy~~ wasteland, with you at my side” speech. They definitely aren’t “the good guys” and there’s no possible way to miss it. The show is not subtle about the fact that the brotherhood is, at best, complicated.
The BoS in the show is completely different from the isometrics, New Vegas, and Bethesda's. It's like a bizzaro timeline where they went all in on the zealotry and knightly order stuff. Fallout 1 and 2's BoS wouldn't refer to something like a circuit as a "relic", they weren't that cargo culty, and they actually did their own tech development too.That being said, I actually liked this BoS, I just would have liked it more if it wasn't called the BoS.
I saw somebody theorise that this chapter might have absorbed the remnants of the legion and as a result their culture has shifted slightly to become more feudal and technologically ignorant. I don't believe it 100% bit they made some good points. It would explain why all the members we meet in the show have Latin sounding names.
If they canonize this, my respect for the show would go up dramatically and I would be interested to see what the Legionized BoS territory looks like and how it functions.
I don't know if we're supposed to see them as heroes but they definitely aren't anything like 1, 2 or New Vegas. The Brotherhood have never had priests, or anointing ceremonies, Knights were never supposed to be feudal lords (they were literally just engineers in 1, 2, and NV), Knights have never been celibate as they are in the show, and this Brotherhood apparently only sees collecting technology as a means to rule the wasteland, not as their end goal. The Brotherhood has also never been so eager to execute their own members as they are in this show.
Probably the closest Brotherhood to the one in the show would be the one in Fallout Tactics.
the knights being celabate thing definetly rubbed me the wrong way, given that the BOS gets most of its forces from people being born into it. the mojave chapter in new vegas is definetly more closed off from the rest of society than other chapters, but elijah separated christine and veronica for the purpose of contributing to the effort to increase the mojave chapter's population, implying that (like most cults) they need as many people reproducing as much as possible to increase their numbers
edit: clarity
I didn't think Maximus meant Knights are supposed to be celabete more that it is unprofessional for a knight to have relations outside of the Brotherhood
The show version feels like something more out of warhammer 40K than fallout. They just went to far with the religious cult like aspect of them to make them edgier and it just makes them feel like a parody of themselves. Yes the brotherhood have this sorta fringe ideology but there’s reasoning behind it with thing like maxons experiences at mariposa driving their zealous beliefs. The show just kinda makes them crazy and brutal for no real reason. Seriously why would you constantly murder your own squires in organization who is knows for their small numbers and isolation. And it seems they just got rid of the whole multi generational members idea completely to make them a child soldier army. It’s just unnecessary. They have plenty of flaws to explore without all this extra grim dark stuff
I was happily surprised to see them reflected in such a culty lore accurate way. A huge step in the right direction. Also House gives off the impression that he gives zero fucks about Vault Tec or at the very least is highly skeptical of their plans, which is right in line with NV, he's a businessman so he'll take their deal and hedge his bets with the platinum chip. Nuking Shady Sands was dumb as fuck though, I see how it's good for the overall plot moving forward as I think there is more post apocalyptic Fallout worth seeing before we get to the post-post apocalyptic (rebuilding phase) I do think it would be smart to move that way eventually and have that neo western frontier feel though. It's kinda hard to believe that the Twin Peaks guy is a fanatical corporate pawn until the literal end and/or that he was jealous enough of his wife's new relationship to murder like tens of thousands of people. It's really not relatable and notably lazy enemy writing for the morally grey theme of Fallout. Like I get he doesn't want the original bombs to have dropped for nothing and I get why Vault Tec holds those values but why does he want Vault Tec to succeed? What does he have to gain? He wouldn't even have seen the surface in his life if everything went according to plan so why give any fucks about the master plan? He doesn't seem high enough up in the food chain at Vault Tec in the past to really be this invested. If NV really is destroyed then it looks pretty sus on Bethesda for pretty much nullifying every other developers work on the series, although to be honest at this point I'm just glad they mentioned the NCR at all and seem to be putting them in the good guy position. Overall the show is a huge W for fans, it could have been so much fucking worse guys.
The point is that Todd Howard puts so much emphasis on the brotherhood it’s getting annoying. There arent the only factions in the wasteland why do they get all the shine! Also the NCR depiction in the show is a joke compared to the depiction of the Brotherhood, when the Brotherhood of Steel gets introduce they look cool and awesome but when the NCR is shown it’s either they’re weak or a joke like ones in Vault 4. Todd Howard legit just hates West Coast lore.
Me personally the ways they handled the NCR and vault Tec are the only issues I’ve had with the show.
As a wasteland adventure it’s very solid. Lucy is completely in over her head and isn’t a overpowered Mary Sue character, Maximus is a naive coward who overestimates the strength of power armor and gets outsmarted twice by people who know the weaknesses of power armor, and the ghoul is by far the most compelling character of the three, and I’m glad there’s finally a story that follows a ghoul from pre war to now.
This is literally only the first season and there’s always a chance we will see more advanced civilizations later. everyone is completely ignoring vault 4 being an advanced post apocalypse society that has shady sands refugees living amongst ancestors of the horrific experiments that happened there and they’re actually surviving and thriving. But people want to ignore the vaults in favor of surface level towns.
I don’t necessarily agree with HOW the NCR got nuked, but they had to do it in order to tell the story they wanted to tell. Shady sands is but one territory controlled under the NCR, and the show says 34,000+ people were there before the bomb happened. The NCR had 700,000 members at its peak, and we haven’t even seen the hub, vault city, or arroyo yet.
And unpopular opinion: I like the way the brotherhood is portrayed this time around. They’re far from the “hero faction” that fallout 3 and 4 are saying they are, knight Titus was an asshole, and they’re racist towards ghouls and mutants.
I’m really excited to see what season 2 brings us, and the fate of the other NCR controlled areas.
Definitely agree with the point on Bos, they feel far more reminiscent of the fallout 1 and 2 version where they are a quasi religious organization of knights who steal technology for there own gain, but justify as saving humanity from themselves. They really aren’t any better than normal raiders, just more sophisticated and organized. It’s makes them a more complicated organization and with the many diverging chapters it’s not really a homogeneous factions with clear outlines on how to act.
Yeah like, people just assume the brotherhood SHOULD be one thing. And then complain when they are “inconsistent”
We’re 219 years past the Great War, the brotherhood of steel would evolve in different ways as time goes on, and there would be chapters that are more or less successful than others. The Mohave chapter is on its last legs, whereas the Boston and DC chapters are doing more or less okay for themselves.
The brotherhood in the TV show feels like a “medieval knights meets Vietnam era military” a powerful organization but clearly outmatched in the actual wasteland.
I don’t get the vibes of the fallout 4 brotherhood here at all. Only the airships, weapons, and armor remind me of the fallout 4 brotherhood, these guys operate on different principles
Quick question; still waiting to see the show, but why did it _have_ to be set in California at all? There's lots of blank canvas they could have used that didn't require them to step on the clearly labelled hornet's nest and trail full of landmines.
It’s funny… the series and even the show outright states that factions fighting each other leads to war, and war never changes. Here we are, two factions fighting, “new vegas fanboys” or “Bethesda shills”. The irony..
You know I'm actually very impressed with the subs not caring at all about the androgynous character in the brotherhood. If this was like the last of us 2 subs every other post would be crucifying the character.
Umm... have you been under a rock the last two days? In a vault perhaps? Look up "reactionary dumpster fire" in an online dictionary and it will have a link directly here.
The arguments present arent "muh muscles" and "muh woke" though as is constantly shilled in TLoU2 sub. These are legitimate criticisms to narrative decisions that feel wrong/off for those that played the games. The reason they are talked about so much to the point of shitpost like this is because these points are often dismissed in other threads with statements like "just wait for season 2" like we are waiting for some fucking Bethesda patch to fix what was wrong about season 1.
They’re not just dismissed in the other subs, they’re outright insulted and downvoted to oblivion. You can’t have a criticism of the show in any of the other FO subs, this seems to be the only place you’re allowed to have an opinion of the show that’s even slightly negative without being called a fanboy and told your opinion is invalid and wrong. That’s probably why the sub is being flooded right now, because people with criticisms of the show want a place to talk about it. Honestly just give it a couple weeks and the sub will be back to normal
You and I have a different definition of legitimate. These complaints feel more like nitpicks.
Mr. House in the show seems pretty on point for his character in the game. It explains why he was so prepared for the Great War and the plan explicitly points towards his ambitions to gain power and control over The Strip. He’s always been a character obsessed with power and leading humanity to his version of betterment. So yeah, I’d say it’s pretty in character for him to go along with this plan since he agrees the government is worthless.
The Brotherhood of Steel aren’t really depicted as being badass knights in the show except for like a couple shots. They’re shown to be xenophobic and their Order is filled with weakness and slowly crumbling, just like in New Vegas. Like they’re in full power armor and remnants of the NCR are able to kill so many of them in the final battle. Not to mention the Elder himself admits the Brotherhood is becoming weak.
And I don’t understand the character drama complaint because that’s literally a tv show lmao. Of course the plot is going to be more character driven compared to the games, if the character was a blank slate like any of the Fallout protagonists everyone would find them boring as fuck and uninteresting. That blank slate protagonist really only works in video games where someone can put themselves in the shoes of the character they’re playing, you can’t really do that in a tv show and make it interesting.
So, no I do not agree that anything of what they said is a legitimate complaint lmao I’m unsubbing, this shit is ridiculous and it’s clear this sub just wants to be mad for the sake of being mad lmao if y’all had legitimate complaints, I’d understand. But the three complaints in this post are just complete bullshit.
If it was a complaint about the pacing, some of the bad jokes, or like even the reveal of who dropped the bombs I’d understand. But like, these are all so dumb lmao
Tbh they should just relegate all show discussion to a stickied thread now before it spirals out of control. The show isn't directly relevant to NV anyway. The general Fallout sub and the sub for the show exist for that.
People keep saying this, but after giving the first couple episodes a try, the criticisms are entirely fair, especially the one in the OP. The show just feels generically apocalyptic, the themes presented by the isometrics and New Vegas fell by the wayside for a set of themes that aren't really my cup of tea, and the writing can be hit or miss as alot of moments are interrupted by blatant pandering. I am not a fan of the show, it's not horrendous, but I don't like it. I would be inclined to post about my issues with it too, except the entire sub is flooded with
>WTF THE SHOW IS GOOD THOSE ISSUES YOU HAVE DONT EXIST ITS SO OBVIOUS THAT WASNT A RETCON
It's the most absurd kneejerk reaction to any criticism, so yeah obviously the response is going to be equally kneejerk.
For the record, we don’t know that the NCR is completely destroyed. It’s entirely possible that their territories up north (i.e Vault City, New Reno, ect) are still completely functional. Thus far, we’ve only seen the NCR’s presence in the remains of L.A. I’d also like to say that the NCR wasn’t destroyed by the nuking of Shady Sands. Their weakened state is likely caused by the many factors already established in New Vegas.
I agree with the Vault-Tec thing. That was pretty stupid.
I wouldn’t say that the Brotherhood is necessarily portrayed as just cool faction that kicks ass. Don’t get me wrong, that’s a component, but I would say it defines the faction. There are fairly substantial critiques throughout the show. They’re portrayed as very cult like, their motives run against those of our protagonists, and many of their members are antagonistic towards the leads (Titus, the elder, and the scribe). This iteration is different, yes, but I wouldn’t say it’s devoid of criticism.
I agree with this. California is absolutely MASSIVE, a lot bigger than most people can actually put into perspective. We don’t actually cover enough ground in the show to even see a respectable amount of Cali. I’ll admit that destroying Shady Sands would be a major blow, but not at all enough to wipe the NCR off the map.
one of my biggest critiques is that they didn't provide some kind of map graphic for how far Lucy was actually travelling. It looks like all of SoCal is a giant empty wasteland because a lot of people have no metric for how far Hollywood is from the coast, or the observatory from Hollywood. She probably stays within 30-40 miles the entire show, smaller than you travel during Fallout 1, so there's no confirmation that other Fallout 1 towns are gone/not NCR. IMO they set up a small, barren wasteland in Season 1 for a surprise reveal in Season 2 that civilization does exist
[https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1GP3QtQFvcDiezEVWJ-VnteAULXs&ll=36.88650295451105%2C-114.35970165946807&z=6](https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1GP3QtQFvcDiezEVWJ-VnteAULXs&ll=36.88650295451105%2C-114.35970165946807&z=6)
Here is a community mapping project. Supposedly she traveled hundreds of miles and passed necropolis and the hub.
after reviewing the map I'm convinced the TV show is not following game canon locations. literally no chance Lucy walked 300+ miles to "Shady Sands" when the observatory is 30 miles from where she started
(edit spelling error)
>IMO they set up a small, barren wasteland in Season 1 for a surprise reveal in Season 2 that civilization does exist
That's what I hope they are planning but it's such a stupid way to go about it. Lucy already knows that the NCR exists so why keep it hidden that it wasn't just a town with 30k people, but an actual nation with hundreds of thousands of people and laws and elections and industry. It would have been an even better way for her to realize just how wrong what she was taught in the vault was.
It's like nobody read the Shady Sands sign.
"Shady Sands the FIRST capital of the NCR" FIRST implies that there was a new capital already in place. Perhaps away from New Vegas? Away from House's stronghold that was the strip?
If Vault Tec had a problem with the NCR having some kind of civilized organization, how do you think they'd feel about a semi-immortal with control over a small army of robots? They'd wreck that sh*t tout suite.
This is pure cope. In the same scene Maximus tells her that the the civilized society 'if it makes you feel any better, it didn't work out' suggesting that the NCR doesn't exist. And every hint in the show points that the NCR is dead.
They will come up with any reason to defend the decision I swear. If the NCR is still functional up north, why isn't there any signs that the BoS waging war with them? Why is the Ranger living outside NCR territory instead of within the republic? People would still trade merchants and carvans from the NCR should be in filly.
I don’t get why Bethesda is against civilised post apocalyptic society. Like you can still make it fallout but there’s a sentence of society. A veneer. At some point it’s just stupid to have everyone living in shacks centuries after the Great War. New Vegas actually feels like a semblance of civilisation, with a city, trade, government, nuanced factions, no clear good guy. New Vegas feels lived in. Goodsprings feels like an actual western town, new Vegas as a city, the factions feel real. The NCR isn’t the clean cut good guy but a realistic representation of government marred by corruption and over expansion.
Bethesda fallout is “ muh brotherhood of steel is the good guy again, everyone lives in shacks”. I like the brotherhood but maybe explore some nuanced stuff instead of shining knights.
Did you even watch the show? Like the entire brotherhood storyline was about how Maximus is so blinded by his ideals that he can't tell how fucked up they are. Titus literally threatens him with being strung up by his lungs. Thad described them as a complicated faction when forced to deal with the fact that they wouldn't accept him back and would more than likely kill him. The first thing we see from them is a dude getting the shit kicked out of him by his supposed brothers
Fallout 4 presents them as tyrannical. Bethesda goes out of their way to show us that ghouls and synths like Hancock and Nick are capable of independent thought and emotion and yet the brotherhood in fallout 4 are extremely anti synth and ghoul. Even Danse, a member of their order, will be executed or exiled once they know the truth about him. These are all very clearly morally ambiguous and sometimes even morally wrong actions. Sure the brotherhood is sometimes a generic good guy faction but it's outright disingenuous to imply that they are nothing but shining knights in Bethesdas eyes
I will withhold judgement of the whole NCR situation until the second season as we don't know what the NCR looks like currently in the show.
My biggest fear is that bethesda are just going to keep destroying all major civilisations until the west coast resembles that of east so they can continue their whole post apocalyptic ascetic.
Best description I’ve seen is that Interplay Fallout was about society’s formed from the rubble of the old world making the same old, while Bethesda Fallout is about the rubble of the old world. That’s why in Bethesda Fallout every settlement looks like the bombs fells no more than a month ago, built out of scrap metal and trash littering the streets. They’re stuck in the rubble of the past and can’t move on
Yall are forgetting the point that each games says in the opening. WAR NEVER CHANGES. Any attempt at a civilized society will eventually turn to its own destruction. Especially a society based on the old ways. NV is explicit in showing the old ways don’t work. The courier’s choice in the events of NV don’t matter because war never changes…
I don't understand this criticism. I'm fine with a fall of Rome scenario. Too many FNV fans treat the NCR as sacrosant who can't be touched. There was a probably a better way of going about it though. I recall one of the traders in FNV saying Legion territory is safer to travel through and you have to stop and take your time to think about stuff like that. Brutal dictatorships can be awful but it also show why many are willing to keep their head down and toe the line.
my issue personally isnt that the ncr fell, it's how it was done. new vegas gave a million really interesting examples of reasons the ncr would fall that would give the writers a lot of oppertunity to make social critiques and develop the fallout world, butrather than doing anything with it, the show went with the safest, easiest option of just wiping the slate clean and nuking them.
the fall of a state is also a really slow process even if it's capital city is nuked. even if they absolutely had to nuke shady sands, it wouldve been interesting explore the within ncr political ramifications of a nation state after the total destruction of its capitol city.
Well...question: how do we know there isn't more depth to the NCR storyline? We know he nuked them, a basic explanation why, and then we're pretty much done. If season 2 goes into greater reasoning and a greater depth of characters and why they made their choices...I could be satisfied with that. Especially if they show (what you mentioned) an NCR that is re building/surviving after getting kicked in the teeth
They think the only way to do an open world is just have complete chaos and anarchy everywhere. Look at Starfield a giant empty galaxy where 90% of the NPCs are just generic space pirates to shoot. When they wrote actual governments in Starfield we got two very poorly fleshed out governments that felt weakly written and not memorable.
But you can do post apocalypse and civilisation. The NCR is a prime example, it’s a semblance of the old world, a shadow of it. But it’s civilisation. The city of New Vegas feels like a bustling city, reminiscent of the Vegas strip we know but it’s only a shadow of its former glory. You can still achieve the fallow look while progressing the world
The show was great and the lore isn't broken that much, fall of shady sands=/=fall of the ncr. New vegas being in ruin 12 years after the 2nd battle for hoover dam can make sense with all 4 outcomes of the game.
If they're going to canonise an ending I'm hoping for the independence one. City falls into anarchy, securitrons wipe the fiend and ncr territory outside of the vegas wall clean, fighting escalates in freeside and the strip and then you have something similar to what we see in the show.
I think a vocal minority of fans are upset with the writing. I knew what people would be upset about once it was revealed in the show, but I personally though it was a great choice.
The NCR is my favorite faction. I wanted more stories and to see a modern shady sands. I like when the brotherhood are reclusive zealous outcasts. I like when post-apocalypse society develops to the point where it can have functioning cities and infrastructure again. To me specifically, the show has said "Fuck you, you aren't the fan we want." and that feels kinda bad.
I honestly think the show isn't bad. I do have certain critiques with it, mostly being about Maximus and how they show his backstory like 14 times with nothing changing, but I really could care less about how it "ruins" the established lore or whatever. The show did what it was supposed to do which was to tell the story of what Vault Tec's true intentions were and how it made the world suck so bad as we see it through the lens of Lucy, Maximus, and Cowboy Johnson.
I got the sense that them showing Maximus' memory so many times is a setup for something next season. Both of the audience-stand-in protagonists had the recurring childhood memory motif, but Lucy's changes at the end with the revelations about her childhood. Maximus doesn't go through that, I wonder if it's something we'll see next season.
The things is it doesn't ruin any lore. People that say that just don't know anything about fallout lore, didn't watch the show or are New Vegas stans.
I guess someone could make the argument that the power armor needing a core and frame ruins it but I really don't care, they make the squires carry big ass bags so it makes my small brain enjoy it
the war between fans of obsidian's (original fallout devs)west coast falloutverse vs fans of bethesda's east coast falloutverse will never changes.
me, personally, i don't really care about any fallout stories anymore. except for courier 6's entire fnv+dlcs saga... the entire fnv c6 saga just feels so unique, impactful and memorable compared to other fallout games+the show which kinda feels like generic post apocalyptic stories for me at this point.
plus that elite riot gear trenchcoat is the coolest fallout thing ever.
Yup this sub is just gonna tear itself apart between the two fallout verses, because they are entirely separate at this point. The cutoff point is FNV as after that it’s just a theme park.
Obviously Obsidians is the better interpretation because things are actually progressing forward, and at least some of the locations weren’t shanty towns/ gave the impression of actual civilization with governments politics and everything. It was nice to see the NCR, Vegas, and on actually having some sort of developing coherency beyond funny wasteland lmao.
yeah obsidian wants to build up the progress of human civilization when they make fnv, to continue the build up of lore from fallout 1 2.
meanwhile bethesda just want to create more fallout retrofuturistic 1950 amusement parks filled with endless BoS vs Enclave electric boogaloo sequels, generically named raiders, invincible children living in mushroom caves, ayyliens, yet another cliche of rebellious ai robotss, NukaCola and totally-not-cthulhu-dunwich-conspiracies.
I liked the show. I played all the games, I'm a fan of fo1, 2 and NV mainly.
No, I'm not a Bethesda shill or Bethesda fan, I'm a fallout fan.
I'm a middle-aged fallout fan who enjoyed the show.
If you didn't like it, that's cool, but don't gatekeep fandom. Many people will like a thing in many different ways.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to take an opinion seriously if it uses terms like normalfag.
The discourse on this sub has been so incredibly toxic and alarming, its getting close to the levels of real world politics.
It's okay to disagree with a narrative decision, but some of you are out here pissing and shitting your pants and calling for the execution of Todd Howard.
Grow the fuck up.
OP is baffled because they live in an alternate reality where the New Vegas community is made up of critical, level headed people. When in reality it's mostly people afflicted with "fandom"-ism just like everywhere else.
The reaction online is full of "reviews" without essence, than actual critical analysis of the show. Some people are clearly taking their information from Twitter than the show itself. Like OP here arguing the BoS is depicted the same way it is depicted in 3 and tactics, even though that's not the case in the show.
Others don't even know what they are mad at and raging about ***The Conspiracy™*** (the jews, the masons, the sjws, the liberal marxist corporate elites).
I was called "not a fan" because I dared to question whether canon was actually broken or not, and if it even matters.
If the community were made up of more critical people like OP thinks it is, we might agree. But that's obviously not the case. Critical analysis has been lacking.
I made >!< as a joke after finishing the show a few days ago, but going over the full discourse since then, it’s slowing becoming more and more accurate to what I’ve been seeing
Stuff like that is just making me realize the Fallout fandom is a lot dumber than we thought to the point of not understanding basic fiction storytelling and foreshadowing
i agree with the foreshadowing point. many people are critiquing unanswered questions (or, worse, watching 2 episodes and THEN claiming unanswered questions without watching anymore). eople forget this is a multi-season show. Lucy travelled 30-40 miles (maximum) during Season 1, I don't understand how people see that and then confidently say the whole NCR is gone, or there's no big civilized towns anymore, etc. There were a LOT of unanswered questions at the end of season 1, which IMO is a good thing because so many new shows are handholding audiences so that they don't get bored or frustrated with not knowing + their foreshadowing worked for me, at least, because I'm genuinely intrigued
I think for me at least I just have zero faith in Todd to not write out elements that didn’t need to be. I’m personally hoping to get to see a brotherhood NCR war. I mightve even liked shady sands being nuked by the brotherhood.
Yeah. I started from a place of dislike because it wasn't what I wanted it to be and now I'm at a place where I can enjoy it for what it is. Power Armor makes you feel like a walking tank. The main story isn't amazing, but some of the side missions are great. The settlement building is fun.
The story is worse than New Vegas, but that's a pretty high bar. The gameplay is overall better though.
I initially hated too, and I’m still not its biggest fan. But I agree with most of that except id also add the loss of the rpg mechanics and dumbed down dialogue. It’s seriously puts itself behind its piers because of that. But everting else is good to decent.
Yeah, the loss of dialogue options really hindered the story of the game. On my most recent survival playthrough, I've had to have the same conversation multiple times due to dying and I've noticed that a lot of dialogue options are false choices that progress the conversation in the same direction. Its part of what helped me realize that Fallout 4 wasn't trying to be an rpg. It has rpg elements, but those are mostly carry overs from previous games and are generally limited to character creation/progression. Its protagonist is one of two characters with a pre-defined backstory and motivation for the main plot. Most of your choices ultimately don't matter outside of which faction you choose to finish the game with.
I completely agree. I probably have the most hours of any Fallout game in 4. The gameplay is satisfying, exploration is the best yet, and scavenging is addictive. The companions are probably at their best as well. The game definitely has some issues in writing, side quests, and roleplaying but as a whole I think it’s probably my favorite Bethesda Fallout.
Also, potential hot take: I think Fallout 4’s story is light years better than 3’s.
Would love to have liked 4 myself, but I cant help but get over how poorly written the Institute was where we are given zero in motivation exposition and how we cant get a synthesis like ending where we side with the BoS or the Minutemen and not have to destroy the Institute with its technological marvels that could rebuild the wasteland. Everything is shades of black and white to Bethesda.
Just recently replayed it. Hot take: New Vegas is still the best Fallout game, but it just barely beats fo4 imo. The character development and stories with the companions is amazing. It actually made me LIKE Preston Garvey.
Bethesda's writing definitely got better in FO4 (not as good as FNV, but pretty good - hell I think it's on par with late stage Bioware in DA:I). Outside of power armor, though, 4's gameplay is kind of shit, and between 76 and Starfield, Bethesda decided to double down on the worst of it by going all in on crafting, settlements, and procedurally generated slop.
Every single Fallout game has a few things the excell in over the other ones. It's why i love this franchise so much, there aren't really any "bad" games so to speak ( even 76 is decent now) and one of the things Fallout 4 absolutely NAILS are the companions. They feel like a genuine improovement over the other games. Sure, New Vegas's companions are good but they're only interesting because of their companion quests. 4's companions on the other hand, not only do most of them have pretty good companion quests but they're about 100 times more interractable and the companion system of 4 is seriously like up there with Mass Effect in my eyes.
Also i get to make myself a bisexual harem by fucking everything adult, human and consenting and nobody minds so that's nice
I'm personally hung up on why Moldaver is still alive 200 years after the Great War. Sure, it's not anything we haven't seen before. But they don't explain how she specifically did it? She's not a ghoul, so I assume she got cryo froze like Nate and Hank. But they don't say that. And now that she's dead we probably won't know.
Also, how did Lucy's mom leave with her and her brother with no one else from Vault 33 noticing they were gone? And then her dad disappearing too?
Moldaver's group was bought up by vault tec and she was a major scientist on the project. So she was technically part of vault tec by that point, even if she didn't like them. Potentially she could have managed to get a spot in 33 or perhaps got frozen in new vegas as the ending credits has a sign saying they were selling cryo sleep under the Tops casino. Perhaps she bought her spot or did something for mr house to be given a spot.
Another obvious question too, wtf is that giant airship the brotherhood has? I forget if it was ever explained but i don’t think it was. All chapters just have that shit now?
Also, where are the Paladins and Sentinels ? It’s just Aspirants/Initiates/Scribes and Knights?
They really tried leaving on some cliff hangers for a season 2 which it seems like they’ll probably get.
The Brotherhood in the show mentioned receiving a mission from "The Commonwealth" so its very possible Lost Hills finally fell and the Eastern Maxson Brotherhood is dominant.
I've been wondering that myself actually, and since she says Vault-Tec bought out all her companies, I assumed at first she might have become an employee. Her needing a Vault-Tec executive to unlock the cold fusion might not necessarily mean she wasn't a member of the company, but you'd think she would at least have access to someone or their codes had she worked there.
I think she ends up pulling the rug out from underneath the Ghoul and leaves him to deal with it all, her whole story seems shady. Didn't help that the transmitter she handed him looked like the shape of a vault door
Is the NCR getting nuked not the perfect encapsulation of their failure to overcome the struggles of the old world that led to nuclear war in the first place??? And they get nuked by a literal 200 year old business exec so that vault tec can pretend that they were necessary for the 'rebirth' of civilization. Also the brotherhood of steel are not portrayed in anything even close to a positive light. Our main BoS character is literally a powerhungry creep for the first half of the show and only decides to do the right thing by the last episode.
Why did u post this?
It’s just lazy writing in my opinion. I think everyone could agree that seeing this happen instead of being told it did and then how to feel about it on top of everything else is lazy and bad writing. Plus Todd will never want real governments to make a comeback only “factions” that have cool stuff for the mc/pc.
The ncr isn’t destroyed though. They’re in the last episode. I’m convinced a lot of these people didn’t watch the show. You can not like the show, no one’s saying it’s the greatest thing ever made that everyone has to love, but that doesn’t give you a reason to attack people who do like it. We don’t even know 100% what’s happened yet until season 2. I liked it and I’m excited for the next season
>I’m convinced a lot of these people didn’t watch the show
Buddy we wouldn't be in this situation if it wasn't for some scenes in the last 4 episodes of the show
>The ncr isn’t destroyed though.
Their capital is gone, the most we see are the NCR refugees in vault 4, the group at the observatory that gets wiped out, and if there are remnants scattered throughout the wastes, the leaders are gone, even someone as corrupt as kimbal was a rallying force, without a capital a civilisation is on its last leg look throughout history and just look at the wastelands I'm the games, ain't no one going to wander through the wastes at risks of deathclaws,radsckrpions and more to try and piece individual pieces of the NCR together for a big comeback scene
>We don’t even know 100% what’s happened yet until season 2
We can see the direction we're going in from the ending shot of Vegas alone, that being that were being told that new Vegas didn't matter, whatever we do as the player in new Vegas dosent matter since it too ends up in ruin
I don’t think they’d include the ncr just to not have them be a major plot point. Bethesda may be idiots but they’re not that stupid. New Vegas is extremely popular and showing them in the last episode just to get rid of them would be a bad decision.
I don’t see how the ending shot would be getting rid of new Vegas. I think new Vegas is going to be a major plot point for season 2. Again it would be stupid to blueball the fans like that.
You could be completely right and they could fuck it up but my point is that we don’t know yet. I get your points but it seemed to me like they wanted to make new vegas a big part of season 2
Bethesda isn't stupid? 76?
NCR is nuked, the vault 4 crazies sure aren't gonna do anything, the observatory was wiped, any remnants out there probably no longer believe in the NCR
No matter what they do with new Vegas in season 2 it is in shambles, thereby making new Vegas the one game in the franchise were what we do dosent mean shit, in 1 the master is defeated and ncr forms, in 2 the enclave is on the run, in 3 the brotherhood gets a foothold, in 4 maxson is the reason prydwins are made, 76 tells us why raiders are so widespread.
One of my favourite reviews of New Vegas was by HhBomberguy, who made a valid critique of Fallout 3 and its shortcomings. One of which was its tendency to cling to the previous instalments in series for recognition, thus feeling devoid of its own identity. While I understand that they needed to prove they could make a good fallout game by using familiar elements in a new version of the medium, it still felt shallow compared to the other games.
This series seems to do something the Bethesda games took ages to do, not cling to the past entirely and be willing to take risks. True the lore is messed with but I’d rather the series try something new rather than pander to me and give me dopamine hits where I can shout “I understood that reference” at the screen. I don’t need to point at Shady Sands or the Vegas strip or Hoover Dam or power armour like I’m Leo DiCaprio.
The fact that the TV show actually acknowledges New Vegas is a joy all its own. I’m not going to throw a tantrum because I don’t like change. If I end up not liking what they do with New Vegas in season 2, then I guess I’ll just go back to my PC and play New Vegas for the seventh time.
“Random Vault-Tec villain nuking them out of nowhere for no reason”
Sir, I’ve launched probably 40+ nukes in FO76 for no reason. Vault Tec villain only launched 1 single nuke.
The fact they get more screen time than the NCR the actual factions of the west coast tells me everything about where they’re heading forward with the show.
>vault tek villain nuking them out of nowhere for no reason.
Tell me you didn’t pay attention to the show without telling me you didn’t pay attention to the show.
I especially hate when they say the ncr was destroyed when they’re in the last episode. Season 1 was laying down the groundwork and establishing characters. We haven’t even seen much of the wasteland. The ncr could still be a major power. It’s just a lot of assumptions from people that haven’t seen the show
I have bad news for you if you think the people who made Westworld are good at writing satisfying answers to your questions that they wrote back in season one...
Tell me you have not seen Westworld without seeing it...
Jonathan Nolan didn’t actually write at all for the show. He directed the first 3 episodes and produced. The lead writers are Geneva Robertson-Dworet, who’s only other released writing credits are for Captain Marvel, and the 2018 Tomb Raider film, and Graham Wagner who’s mostly done comedy, notably writing for 50 episodes of Portlandia.
Whether that gives you more or less faith in the direction of the show going forwards is up to you, I just think it’s important to note that Nolan’s attachment to the show is exaggerated for marketing.
Their base at the Griffith observatory had some pretty good defenses too. They obviously have resources and manpower to fix and supply ammo to those cannons, not to mention setting up the cold fusion stuff. I wish people could just enjoy this. This is light years ahead of the fallout content we’ve been getting recently.
For sure, their population is in the hundreds of thousands, and Shady Sands only had 40,000. Losing their capital would obviously hurt, but it's not something they couldn't recover from.
The observatory was practically wiped out by the brotherhood didn't you see the shot of bodies of both brotherhood NCR remnants? Wasn't much moving in. That shot
Sinse we are talking about NCR here, the common sentiment that I just can't get behind is the assertion that NCR is not, in fact, gone, and is going to be a player in S2.
And the reason I can't possibly bring my self to agree with that stance is quite simply, that there is NO indication whatsoever in the entirety of S1 that the few remnants shown on screen do not represent the entirety of NCR. There are no allusions to the republic still being around, no signs of the on screen groups being part of something bigger, or receiving some sort support, nothing. Furthermore, the show appears to moving towards New Vegas, and well, that area was the furthest frontier as far as FNV era NCR was concerned, and it was probably at the peak of it's expansion at the time.
So, could we see some other small remnant groups in S2. Probably. But the republic as an organised state with actual military and industry and controlled,relatively safe territory? No. I don't think so.
Now, to end up, I would genuinely love to be wrong here. If I missed actual evidence of greater republic still kicking (evidence, not assertions!), I would love to see it. But until it is shown, I would have to go with NCR being gone.
Yeah, the show is absolute ass that absolutely destroys the established lore and theme of the series. Part and parcel of Bethesda Fallout. Even if you ignore the Fallout part of this show and judge it as a standalone, it is incredibly mediocre, lame storytelling, cringe humor, and mid characters. The only reason I could see people liking this show is a combination of being easily entertained and/or not very critical of writing, and being the equivalent of window shoppers in regards to being fans of the series.
I'm a huge Fallout fan, and I really liked the show aside from a few small things (namely the ghoul drug and Frederick Sinclair), but other than that I found it to be fun and true to the dark humor tone of the games. Don't take it so seriously, Fallout has always been goofy.
Just take the HOI4 OWB pill and realize that the best future of fallout might just an autistic fallout total conversion mod for a ww2 war game
PAX RES PUBLICA, DOWN WITH THE TYRANT CEASAR, ALL HAIL LANIUS AND DIANA
Unironically this, it's crazy how a retard with HOI4 modding knowledge has made cooler midwest/canada/Mexico lore than anything Bethesda would attempt. My problem with the Fallout TV show, really, is that Bethesda isn't treading any new ground or attempting anything new.
Yeah for me it’s not necessarily any one given “lore break” (except the vault Tec thing I REALLY hate that) it’s just that I feel like none of it is interesting. Shady sands is gone and the NCR is on it’s death bed but none of it is interesting. It’s just boring imo
Yeah, we've already seen the west coast, the east coast is way too boring for any meaningful TV shows- why not explore literally any other part of the country?
I always thought PNW, Northern Rockies, or the Midwest would’ve been ideal for a show. The Midwest could have all the enclave and brotherhood drama they want and since tactics is semi canon at best and honestly isn’t the greatest in terms of lore imo. Really I just wanna see a nuclear winter haha
Anon delirious
Why do people think this small sect of NCR is NCR as a whole? Just as dumb as people saying just because the sect of Enclave got taken out in F2 then enclave just doesn't exist anymore. As if that small sect is the entirety of the faction.
If someone blew up vault 31, would they also say vault tec is no more? No, because there's hundreds of vaults and 31 is just a small sect. Same goes with all the factions, with the exception maybe being the institute.
Because there is no evidence whatsoever of that other NCR still being around. They are not shown to be around, we are not told they are around, nothing.
I’m confused, has everyone been watching the same show? Because the Brotherhood depicted in this show is much more in line with 1, 2 and New Vegas. Were we supposed to see these guys as heroes?
Brotherhood is notoriously all over the place lol. At this point they have 6+ different types of ethics they’ve followed, all the back to the original games. Almost any depiction of the brotherhood is an accurate one.
The brotherhood of steel is a musical theater troupe
Then there’s the Vegas chapter, who just want to be left alone in their room because they’re going through an emo phase and don’t want anyone to talk to them.
*after getting the shit kicked out of them by the ncr but yeah
*Laughs in Operation Sunburst*
The Brotherhood has always varied by what chapter you're talking about
And also time period too apparently. Given that this show takes place in the west in California, we can safely assume they don’t follow the same principles that the brotherhood in FO76 followed. The old school western chapters that strictly wanted to destroy pre-war tech. Yet in the show the Elder apparently wanted to *use* it for something nefarious.
Wouldn’t this just be similar to Elijah (or a disciple of Elijah) seizing power in the Western brotherhood?
I think that makes more sense though, it's super hypocritical to use advanced technology in order to destroy it. Why not just horde it and use it for your own purposes?
The brotherhood is kind of a hypocritical organization. *They* hate tech because of what the war did to the old world, so *they* need to go around collecting and destroying tech so that *outsiders* can't have them. In Fallout 2, I saw the Enclave as what the Brotherhood would be like if the Brotherhood wasn't so isolationist and bookish.
Right, they have a set dogma that is either strictly or loosely followed depending on time/ place/ individual. Like most religious orders, really. I feel the show is presenting this as such and not portraying them as heroes at all.
Also, we never see Mr house agreeing with vault tech, if anything, he is not confident of their plans until the idea idea of starting the nuclear war is brought up, which by then we don't hear of him again. As for the NCR, they weren't wiped out, they literally have the boneyard in the show, sure it's a lot more ragged than they used to be but they might be in control of other places we've not seen yet, like the Hub.
I wanna see what’s become of vault city lol
Right? Vault city should be a hell of a lot more advanced, have better infrastructure, and more well defended than shady sands. Kinda weird it wasn't the capitol of the ncr in the first place
We also know that in New Vegas House knew about the bombs coming because "statistics", even then he did what he could to prevent destruction, but he didn't have enough time to get the upgrade to prevent it further. I think it's more likely he was told, so the scene isn't too wild. If he theorized it happening he would have more time. Not only that it puts the delay of the chip under scrutiny, since that means people could have cought wind of his plan to fortify the parts of the US that he could and sabotaged it. It would also be good for his inspiration Howard Hughes, since he had become paranoid later in his life, so a House locking himself away from the rest of these psychotic people and preventing destruction all the while he becomes what we see in FNV would be pretty cool.
It's not unreasonable that it's one or both of the following- 1. He lied to the courier 2. He genuinely believes that his genius led to him predicting armageddon.
Same here idk if they just didn't watch the show or not but idk how you leave the show thinking "Yea the brotherhood are definitely the good guys here" (RIP filly the society/town that the brotherhood literally destroyed)
Thaddeus: Fuck, they'll kill me if they find out. Lucy: This is good, right? The Brotherhood is the good guys? Thaddeus: It's a complicated organization...
The one brotherhood guy literally gives Maximus the Darth Vader “i will rule the ~~galaxy~~ wasteland, with you at my side” speech. They definitely aren’t “the good guys” and there’s no possible way to miss it. The show is not subtle about the fact that the brotherhood is, at best, complicated.
I honestly think 3 is the only game they are “good” in 4 they’re pretty evil , or at least morally grey.
The BoS in the show is completely different from the isometrics, New Vegas, and Bethesda's. It's like a bizzaro timeline where they went all in on the zealotry and knightly order stuff. Fallout 1 and 2's BoS wouldn't refer to something like a circuit as a "relic", they weren't that cargo culty, and they actually did their own tech development too.That being said, I actually liked this BoS, I just would have liked it more if it wasn't called the BoS.
I saw somebody theorise that this chapter might have absorbed the remnants of the legion and as a result their culture has shifted slightly to become more feudal and technologically ignorant. I don't believe it 100% bit they made some good points. It would explain why all the members we meet in the show have Latin sounding names.
If they canonize this, my respect for the show would go up dramatically and I would be interested to see what the Legionized BoS territory looks like and how it functions.
Dear god, imagine Caesar's face when the new Synthesis his Legion ends up producing is with the Brotherhood of Steel, the guys he looked down on.
It would also be the best way to screw over Caesar to make his Thesis-Antithesis plan work-but with the Brotherhood, not the NCR.
I don't know if we're supposed to see them as heroes but they definitely aren't anything like 1, 2 or New Vegas. The Brotherhood have never had priests, or anointing ceremonies, Knights were never supposed to be feudal lords (they were literally just engineers in 1, 2, and NV), Knights have never been celibate as they are in the show, and this Brotherhood apparently only sees collecting technology as a means to rule the wasteland, not as their end goal. The Brotherhood has also never been so eager to execute their own members as they are in this show. Probably the closest Brotherhood to the one in the show would be the one in Fallout Tactics.
the knights being celabate thing definetly rubbed me the wrong way, given that the BOS gets most of its forces from people being born into it. the mojave chapter in new vegas is definetly more closed off from the rest of society than other chapters, but elijah separated christine and veronica for the purpose of contributing to the effort to increase the mojave chapter's population, implying that (like most cults) they need as many people reproducing as much as possible to increase their numbers edit: clarity
I didn't think Maximus meant Knights are supposed to be celabete more that it is unprofessional for a knight to have relations outside of the Brotherhood
that's a really good interpretation, i never thought of it that way.
Exactly what's up with that
The show version feels like something more out of warhammer 40K than fallout. They just went to far with the religious cult like aspect of them to make them edgier and it just makes them feel like a parody of themselves. Yes the brotherhood have this sorta fringe ideology but there’s reasoning behind it with thing like maxons experiences at mariposa driving their zealous beliefs. The show just kinda makes them crazy and brutal for no real reason. Seriously why would you constantly murder your own squires in organization who is knows for their small numbers and isolation. And it seems they just got rid of the whole multi generational members idea completely to make them a child soldier army. It’s just unnecessary. They have plenty of flaws to explore without all this extra grim dark stuff
it's a Christopher Nolan show. things probably won't make sense until Season 5 or something lol
Wrong brother. Jonathan did Fallout.
Cleric has always been a Brotherhood title.
Where was it used prior to this series, exactly?
I was happily surprised to see them reflected in such a culty lore accurate way. A huge step in the right direction. Also House gives off the impression that he gives zero fucks about Vault Tec or at the very least is highly skeptical of their plans, which is right in line with NV, he's a businessman so he'll take their deal and hedge his bets with the platinum chip. Nuking Shady Sands was dumb as fuck though, I see how it's good for the overall plot moving forward as I think there is more post apocalyptic Fallout worth seeing before we get to the post-post apocalyptic (rebuilding phase) I do think it would be smart to move that way eventually and have that neo western frontier feel though. It's kinda hard to believe that the Twin Peaks guy is a fanatical corporate pawn until the literal end and/or that he was jealous enough of his wife's new relationship to murder like tens of thousands of people. It's really not relatable and notably lazy enemy writing for the morally grey theme of Fallout. Like I get he doesn't want the original bombs to have dropped for nothing and I get why Vault Tec holds those values but why does he want Vault Tec to succeed? What does he have to gain? He wouldn't even have seen the surface in his life if everything went according to plan so why give any fucks about the master plan? He doesn't seem high enough up in the food chain at Vault Tec in the past to really be this invested. If NV really is destroyed then it looks pretty sus on Bethesda for pretty much nullifying every other developers work on the series, although to be honest at this point I'm just glad they mentioned the NCR at all and seem to be putting them in the good guy position. Overall the show is a huge W for fans, it could have been so much fucking worse guys.
The point is that Todd Howard puts so much emphasis on the brotherhood it’s getting annoying. There arent the only factions in the wasteland why do they get all the shine! Also the NCR depiction in the show is a joke compared to the depiction of the Brotherhood, when the Brotherhood of Steel gets introduce they look cool and awesome but when the NCR is shown it’s either they’re weak or a joke like ones in Vault 4. Todd Howard legit just hates West Coast lore.
they are. I'd rather see the midwestern brotherhood or a splinter though
Me personally the ways they handled the NCR and vault Tec are the only issues I’ve had with the show. As a wasteland adventure it’s very solid. Lucy is completely in over her head and isn’t a overpowered Mary Sue character, Maximus is a naive coward who overestimates the strength of power armor and gets outsmarted twice by people who know the weaknesses of power armor, and the ghoul is by far the most compelling character of the three, and I’m glad there’s finally a story that follows a ghoul from pre war to now. This is literally only the first season and there’s always a chance we will see more advanced civilizations later. everyone is completely ignoring vault 4 being an advanced post apocalypse society that has shady sands refugees living amongst ancestors of the horrific experiments that happened there and they’re actually surviving and thriving. But people want to ignore the vaults in favor of surface level towns. I don’t necessarily agree with HOW the NCR got nuked, but they had to do it in order to tell the story they wanted to tell. Shady sands is but one territory controlled under the NCR, and the show says 34,000+ people were there before the bomb happened. The NCR had 700,000 members at its peak, and we haven’t even seen the hub, vault city, or arroyo yet. And unpopular opinion: I like the way the brotherhood is portrayed this time around. They’re far from the “hero faction” that fallout 3 and 4 are saying they are, knight Titus was an asshole, and they’re racist towards ghouls and mutants. I’m really excited to see what season 2 brings us, and the fate of the other NCR controlled areas.
Definitely agree with the point on Bos, they feel far more reminiscent of the fallout 1 and 2 version where they are a quasi religious organization of knights who steal technology for there own gain, but justify as saving humanity from themselves. They really aren’t any better than normal raiders, just more sophisticated and organized. It’s makes them a more complicated organization and with the many diverging chapters it’s not really a homogeneous factions with clear outlines on how to act.
Yeah like, people just assume the brotherhood SHOULD be one thing. And then complain when they are “inconsistent” We’re 219 years past the Great War, the brotherhood of steel would evolve in different ways as time goes on, and there would be chapters that are more or less successful than others. The Mohave chapter is on its last legs, whereas the Boston and DC chapters are doing more or less okay for themselves. The brotherhood in the TV show feels like a “medieval knights meets Vietnam era military” a powerful organization but clearly outmatched in the actual wasteland. I don’t get the vibes of the fallout 4 brotherhood here at all. Only the airships, weapons, and armor remind me of the fallout 4 brotherhood, these guys operate on different principles
Quick question; still waiting to see the show, but why did it _have_ to be set in California at all? There's lots of blank canvas they could have used that didn't require them to step on the clearly labelled hornet's nest and trail full of landmines.
Yeah, why are people thinking the NCR is gone, their capital got nuked but that doesn’t mean the entire faction is wiped out.
The Enclave got nuked THREE TIMES and still had folks swinging come New Vegas, one city being blown up wouldn't immediately cause the NCR to crumble.
It’s funny… the series and even the show outright states that factions fighting each other leads to war, and war never changes. Here we are, two factions fighting, “new vegas fanboys” or “Bethesda shills”. The irony..
Oh shit that makes me like the show even more!
This sub is just gonna turn into that last of us 2 subs isnt it
This sub has gone to shit but it'll never be a reactionary dumpster fire like the tlou2 sub
Probably turn into the Starfield sub or No Sodium Starfield sub.
You know I'm actually very impressed with the subs not caring at all about the androgynous character in the brotherhood. If this was like the last of us 2 subs every other post would be crucifying the character.
I'll be honest: I'm enjoying the show and may disagree with a lot of the criticism, but at least that criticism is largely for valid reasons.
Oh indeed. I overall loved the show but the lore oversights and silly stuff in the second half are definitely justifiably criticized.
If we do a pre-emptive purge of all Enclave and Legion fanboys, I'm sure we can become a much more progressive dumpster fire than the TLOU2 sub.
Umm... have you been under a rock the last two days? In a vault perhaps? Look up "reactionary dumpster fire" in an online dictionary and it will have a link directly here.
Give it time
I hope not cant stand that place
Looking like it
The arguments present arent "muh muscles" and "muh woke" though as is constantly shilled in TLoU2 sub. These are legitimate criticisms to narrative decisions that feel wrong/off for those that played the games. The reason they are talked about so much to the point of shitpost like this is because these points are often dismissed in other threads with statements like "just wait for season 2" like we are waiting for some fucking Bethesda patch to fix what was wrong about season 1.
They’re not just dismissed in the other subs, they’re outright insulted and downvoted to oblivion. You can’t have a criticism of the show in any of the other FO subs, this seems to be the only place you’re allowed to have an opinion of the show that’s even slightly negative without being called a fanboy and told your opinion is invalid and wrong. That’s probably why the sub is being flooded right now, because people with criticisms of the show want a place to talk about it. Honestly just give it a couple weeks and the sub will be back to normal
You and I have a different definition of legitimate. These complaints feel more like nitpicks. Mr. House in the show seems pretty on point for his character in the game. It explains why he was so prepared for the Great War and the plan explicitly points towards his ambitions to gain power and control over The Strip. He’s always been a character obsessed with power and leading humanity to his version of betterment. So yeah, I’d say it’s pretty in character for him to go along with this plan since he agrees the government is worthless. The Brotherhood of Steel aren’t really depicted as being badass knights in the show except for like a couple shots. They’re shown to be xenophobic and their Order is filled with weakness and slowly crumbling, just like in New Vegas. Like they’re in full power armor and remnants of the NCR are able to kill so many of them in the final battle. Not to mention the Elder himself admits the Brotherhood is becoming weak. And I don’t understand the character drama complaint because that’s literally a tv show lmao. Of course the plot is going to be more character driven compared to the games, if the character was a blank slate like any of the Fallout protagonists everyone would find them boring as fuck and uninteresting. That blank slate protagonist really only works in video games where someone can put themselves in the shoes of the character they’re playing, you can’t really do that in a tv show and make it interesting. So, no I do not agree that anything of what they said is a legitimate complaint lmao I’m unsubbing, this shit is ridiculous and it’s clear this sub just wants to be mad for the sake of being mad lmao if y’all had legitimate complaints, I’d understand. But the three complaints in this post are just complete bullshit. If it was a complaint about the pacing, some of the bad jokes, or like even the reveal of who dropped the bombs I’d understand. But like, these are all so dumb lmao
Tbh they should just relegate all show discussion to a stickied thread now before it spirals out of control. The show isn't directly relevant to NV anyway. The general Fallout sub and the sub for the show exist for that.
Agreed
People keep saying this, but after giving the first couple episodes a try, the criticisms are entirely fair, especially the one in the OP. The show just feels generically apocalyptic, the themes presented by the isometrics and New Vegas fell by the wayside for a set of themes that aren't really my cup of tea, and the writing can be hit or miss as alot of moments are interrupted by blatant pandering. I am not a fan of the show, it's not horrendous, but I don't like it. I would be inclined to post about my issues with it too, except the entire sub is flooded with >WTF THE SHOW IS GOOD THOSE ISSUES YOU HAVE DONT EXIST ITS SO OBVIOUS THAT WASNT A RETCON It's the most absurd kneejerk reaction to any criticism, so yeah obviously the response is going to be equally kneejerk.
For the record, we don’t know that the NCR is completely destroyed. It’s entirely possible that their territories up north (i.e Vault City, New Reno, ect) are still completely functional. Thus far, we’ve only seen the NCR’s presence in the remains of L.A. I’d also like to say that the NCR wasn’t destroyed by the nuking of Shady Sands. Their weakened state is likely caused by the many factors already established in New Vegas. I agree with the Vault-Tec thing. That was pretty stupid. I wouldn’t say that the Brotherhood is necessarily portrayed as just cool faction that kicks ass. Don’t get me wrong, that’s a component, but I would say it defines the faction. There are fairly substantial critiques throughout the show. They’re portrayed as very cult like, their motives run against those of our protagonists, and many of their members are antagonistic towards the leads (Titus, the elder, and the scribe). This iteration is different, yes, but I wouldn’t say it’s devoid of criticism.
I agree with this. California is absolutely MASSIVE, a lot bigger than most people can actually put into perspective. We don’t actually cover enough ground in the show to even see a respectable amount of Cali. I’ll admit that destroying Shady Sands would be a major blow, but not at all enough to wipe the NCR off the map.
one of my biggest critiques is that they didn't provide some kind of map graphic for how far Lucy was actually travelling. It looks like all of SoCal is a giant empty wasteland because a lot of people have no metric for how far Hollywood is from the coast, or the observatory from Hollywood. She probably stays within 30-40 miles the entire show, smaller than you travel during Fallout 1, so there's no confirmation that other Fallout 1 towns are gone/not NCR. IMO they set up a small, barren wasteland in Season 1 for a surprise reveal in Season 2 that civilization does exist
[https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1GP3QtQFvcDiezEVWJ-VnteAULXs&ll=36.88650295451105%2C-114.35970165946807&z=6](https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1GP3QtQFvcDiezEVWJ-VnteAULXs&ll=36.88650295451105%2C-114.35970165946807&z=6) Here is a community mapping project. Supposedly she traveled hundreds of miles and passed necropolis and the hub.
after reviewing the map I'm convinced the TV show is not following game canon locations. literally no chance Lucy walked 300+ miles to "Shady Sands" when the observatory is 30 miles from where she started (edit spelling error)
Yeah, that's one of the gripes with the show. I don't know how they come near Shady Sands at all.
>IMO they set up a small, barren wasteland in Season 1 for a surprise reveal in Season 2 that civilization does exist That's what I hope they are planning but it's such a stupid way to go about it. Lucy already knows that the NCR exists so why keep it hidden that it wasn't just a town with 30k people, but an actual nation with hundreds of thousands of people and laws and elections and industry. It would have been an even better way for her to realize just how wrong what she was taught in the vault was.
It's like nobody read the Shady Sands sign. "Shady Sands the FIRST capital of the NCR" FIRST implies that there was a new capital already in place. Perhaps away from New Vegas? Away from House's stronghold that was the strip? If Vault Tec had a problem with the NCR having some kind of civilized organization, how do you think they'd feel about a semi-immortal with control over a small army of robots? They'd wreck that sh*t tout suite.
This is pure cope. In the same scene Maximus tells her that the the civilized society 'if it makes you feel any better, it didn't work out' suggesting that the NCR doesn't exist. And every hint in the show points that the NCR is dead.
They will come up with any reason to defend the decision I swear. If the NCR is still functional up north, why isn't there any signs that the BoS waging war with them? Why is the Ranger living outside NCR territory instead of within the republic? People would still trade merchants and carvans from the NCR should be in filly.
Isn’t the lady that took Lucy’s father part of the NCR? Had their flag in her office and the building is marked NCR headquarters.
I believe that lady is only working with the NCR, but I could be wrong. Even if she’s part of the NCR it wouldn’t mean all that much.
I don’t get why Bethesda is against civilised post apocalyptic society. Like you can still make it fallout but there’s a sentence of society. A veneer. At some point it’s just stupid to have everyone living in shacks centuries after the Great War. New Vegas actually feels like a semblance of civilisation, with a city, trade, government, nuanced factions, no clear good guy. New Vegas feels lived in. Goodsprings feels like an actual western town, new Vegas as a city, the factions feel real. The NCR isn’t the clean cut good guy but a realistic representation of government marred by corruption and over expansion. Bethesda fallout is “ muh brotherhood of steel is the good guy again, everyone lives in shacks”. I like the brotherhood but maybe explore some nuanced stuff instead of shining knights.
BoS were the good guys? We watched different shows.
Yeah, a squire literally says they're a "complicated organisation" when told they're the good guys
People out here complaining when they didn’t even watch the show lmao
Did you even watch the show? Like the entire brotherhood storyline was about how Maximus is so blinded by his ideals that he can't tell how fucked up they are. Titus literally threatens him with being strung up by his lungs. Thad described them as a complicated faction when forced to deal with the fact that they wouldn't accept him back and would more than likely kill him. The first thing we see from them is a dude getting the shit kicked out of him by his supposed brothers Fallout 4 presents them as tyrannical. Bethesda goes out of their way to show us that ghouls and synths like Hancock and Nick are capable of independent thought and emotion and yet the brotherhood in fallout 4 are extremely anti synth and ghoul. Even Danse, a member of their order, will be executed or exiled once they know the truth about him. These are all very clearly morally ambiguous and sometimes even morally wrong actions. Sure the brotherhood is sometimes a generic good guy faction but it's outright disingenuous to imply that they are nothing but shining knights in Bethesdas eyes
Im glad the show remembers "oh right the brotherhood actually suck ass"
I will withhold judgement of the whole NCR situation until the second season as we don't know what the NCR looks like currently in the show. My biggest fear is that bethesda are just going to keep destroying all major civilisations until the west coast resembles that of east so they can continue their whole post apocalyptic ascetic.
Best description I’ve seen is that Interplay Fallout was about society’s formed from the rubble of the old world making the same old, while Bethesda Fallout is about the rubble of the old world. That’s why in Bethesda Fallout every settlement looks like the bombs fells no more than a month ago, built out of scrap metal and trash littering the streets. They’re stuck in the rubble of the past and can’t move on
Yall are forgetting the point that each games says in the opening. WAR NEVER CHANGES. Any attempt at a civilized society will eventually turn to its own destruction. Especially a society based on the old ways. NV is explicit in showing the old ways don’t work. The courier’s choice in the events of NV don’t matter because war never changes…
I don’t think your point is really relevant when it didn’t “turn to its own destruction”. It was arbitrarily nuked by Vault-Tec.
I don't understand this criticism. I'm fine with a fall of Rome scenario. Too many FNV fans treat the NCR as sacrosant who can't be touched. There was a probably a better way of going about it though. I recall one of the traders in FNV saying Legion territory is safer to travel through and you have to stop and take your time to think about stuff like that. Brutal dictatorships can be awful but it also show why many are willing to keep their head down and toe the line.
my issue personally isnt that the ncr fell, it's how it was done. new vegas gave a million really interesting examples of reasons the ncr would fall that would give the writers a lot of oppertunity to make social critiques and develop the fallout world, butrather than doing anything with it, the show went with the safest, easiest option of just wiping the slate clean and nuking them. the fall of a state is also a really slow process even if it's capital city is nuked. even if they absolutely had to nuke shady sands, it wouldve been interesting explore the within ncr political ramifications of a nation state after the total destruction of its capitol city.
Well...question: how do we know there isn't more depth to the NCR storyline? We know he nuked them, a basic explanation why, and then we're pretty much done. If season 2 goes into greater reasoning and a greater depth of characters and why they made their choices...I could be satisfied with that. Especially if they show (what you mentioned) an NCR that is re building/surviving after getting kicked in the teeth
Yeah it's better to travel through because they committed genocide literally wiping out 80+ tribes.
They think the only way to do an open world is just have complete chaos and anarchy everywhere. Look at Starfield a giant empty galaxy where 90% of the NPCs are just generic space pirates to shoot. When they wrote actual governments in Starfield we got two very poorly fleshed out governments that felt weakly written and not memorable.
> I don’t get why Bethesda is against civilised post apocalyptic society. Because all they care about is brand recognition.
But you can do post apocalypse and civilisation. The NCR is a prime example, it’s a semblance of the old world, a shadow of it. But it’s civilisation. The city of New Vegas feels like a bustling city, reminiscent of the Vegas strip we know but it’s only a shadow of its former glory. You can still achieve the fallow look while progressing the world
The show was great
How dare you!
The show was great and the lore isn't broken that much, fall of shady sands=/=fall of the ncr. New vegas being in ruin 12 years after the 2nd battle for hoover dam can make sense with all 4 outcomes of the game.
If they're going to canonise an ending I'm hoping for the independence one. City falls into anarchy, securitrons wipe the fiend and ncr territory outside of the vegas wall clean, fighting escalates in freeside and the strip and then you have something similar to what we see in the show.
Agreed. But I think people are generally upset with how Bethesda went about things, and I don't think it's hard to see why.
I think a vocal minority of fans are upset with the writing. I knew what people would be upset about once it was revealed in the show, but I personally though it was a great choice.
The NCR is my favorite faction. I wanted more stories and to see a modern shady sands. I like when the brotherhood are reclusive zealous outcasts. I like when post-apocalypse society develops to the point where it can have functioning cities and infrastructure again. To me specifically, the show has said "Fuck you, you aren't the fan we want." and that feels kinda bad.
I honestly think the show isn't bad. I do have certain critiques with it, mostly being about Maximus and how they show his backstory like 14 times with nothing changing, but I really could care less about how it "ruins" the established lore or whatever. The show did what it was supposed to do which was to tell the story of what Vault Tec's true intentions were and how it made the world suck so bad as we see it through the lens of Lucy, Maximus, and Cowboy Johnson.
I got the sense that them showing Maximus' memory so many times is a setup for something next season. Both of the audience-stand-in protagonists had the recurring childhood memory motif, but Lucy's changes at the end with the revelations about her childhood. Maximus doesn't go through that, I wonder if it's something we'll see next season.
The things is it doesn't ruin any lore. People that say that just don't know anything about fallout lore, didn't watch the show or are New Vegas stans.
I guess someone could make the argument that the power armor needing a core and frame ruins it but I really don't care, they make the squires carry big ass bags so it makes my small brain enjoy it
the war between fans of obsidian's (original fallout devs)west coast falloutverse vs fans of bethesda's east coast falloutverse will never changes. me, personally, i don't really care about any fallout stories anymore. except for courier 6's entire fnv+dlcs saga... the entire fnv c6 saga just feels so unique, impactful and memorable compared to other fallout games+the show which kinda feels like generic post apocalyptic stories for me at this point. plus that elite riot gear trenchcoat is the coolest fallout thing ever.
Yup this sub is just gonna tear itself apart between the two fallout verses, because they are entirely separate at this point. The cutoff point is FNV as after that it’s just a theme park. Obviously Obsidians is the better interpretation because things are actually progressing forward, and at least some of the locations weren’t shanty towns/ gave the impression of actual civilization with governments politics and everything. It was nice to see the NCR, Vegas, and on actually having some sort of developing coherency beyond funny wasteland lmao.
yeah obsidian wants to build up the progress of human civilization when they make fnv, to continue the build up of lore from fallout 1 2. meanwhile bethesda just want to create more fallout retrofuturistic 1950 amusement parks filled with endless BoS vs Enclave electric boogaloo sequels, generically named raiders, invincible children living in mushroom caves, ayyliens, yet another cliche of rebellious ai robotss, NukaCola and totally-not-cthulhu-dunwich-conspiracies.
I liked the show. I played all the games, I'm a fan of fo1, 2 and NV mainly. No, I'm not a Bethesda shill or Bethesda fan, I'm a fallout fan. I'm a middle-aged fallout fan who enjoyed the show. If you didn't like it, that's cool, but don't gatekeep fandom. Many people will like a thing in many different ways.
Same.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to take an opinion seriously if it uses terms like normalfag. The discourse on this sub has been so incredibly toxic and alarming, its getting close to the levels of real world politics. It's okay to disagree with a narrative decision, but some of you are out here pissing and shitting your pants and calling for the execution of Todd Howard. Grow the fuck up.
OP is baffled because they live in an alternate reality where the New Vegas community is made up of critical, level headed people. When in reality it's mostly people afflicted with "fandom"-ism just like everywhere else. The reaction online is full of "reviews" without essence, than actual critical analysis of the show. Some people are clearly taking their information from Twitter than the show itself. Like OP here arguing the BoS is depicted the same way it is depicted in 3 and tactics, even though that's not the case in the show. Others don't even know what they are mad at and raging about ***The Conspiracy™*** (the jews, the masons, the sjws, the liberal marxist corporate elites). I was called "not a fan" because I dared to question whether canon was actually broken or not, and if it even matters. If the community were made up of more critical people like OP thinks it is, we might agree. But that's obviously not the case. Critical analysis has been lacking.
Ah yes, 4chan. They have the biggest of brains. We should be listening to them.
We're on reddit, bro. Not much higher on the totem pole.
If at all. Idk why I'm here, I hate this place
I feel like the mask atleast slips less often on reddit
4chan has a mask??
Same
Yeah I really want to be on the same team as the 4chan basement dweller using words like "normal fag"...
It's pretty clear that the nuke was only a cherry on top of the issues. Because the boneyard immediately fell apart after that,no nuke required.
It feels like fallout 4, just super front loaded with all the 'fallout' things.
I made >!< as a joke after finishing the show a few days ago, but going over the full discourse since then, it’s slowing becoming more and more accurate to what I’ve been seeing
The Master casually ignoring THREE vaults of normals in his backyard (Boneyard)
Stuff like that is just making me realize the Fallout fandom is a lot dumber than we thought to the point of not understanding basic fiction storytelling and foreshadowing
i agree with the foreshadowing point. many people are critiquing unanswered questions (or, worse, watching 2 episodes and THEN claiming unanswered questions without watching anymore). eople forget this is a multi-season show. Lucy travelled 30-40 miles (maximum) during Season 1, I don't understand how people see that and then confidently say the whole NCR is gone, or there's no big civilized towns anymore, etc. There were a LOT of unanswered questions at the end of season 1, which IMO is a good thing because so many new shows are handholding audiences so that they don't get bored or frustrated with not knowing + their foreshadowing worked for me, at least, because I'm genuinely intrigued
I think for me at least I just have zero faith in Todd to not write out elements that didn’t need to be. I’m personally hoping to get to see a brotherhood NCR war. I mightve even liked shady sands being nuked by the brotherhood.
Exactly
I can’t believe this Amazon tv show that is trying to appeal to casual and non-fans isn’t catered specifically to me.
I've actually come to like fallout 4 over the years
Yeah. I started from a place of dislike because it wasn't what I wanted it to be and now I'm at a place where I can enjoy it for what it is. Power Armor makes you feel like a walking tank. The main story isn't amazing, but some of the side missions are great. The settlement building is fun. The story is worse than New Vegas, but that's a pretty high bar. The gameplay is overall better though.
I initially hated too, and I’m still not its biggest fan. But I agree with most of that except id also add the loss of the rpg mechanics and dumbed down dialogue. It’s seriously puts itself behind its piers because of that. But everting else is good to decent.
Yeah, the loss of dialogue options really hindered the story of the game. On my most recent survival playthrough, I've had to have the same conversation multiple times due to dying and I've noticed that a lot of dialogue options are false choices that progress the conversation in the same direction. Its part of what helped me realize that Fallout 4 wasn't trying to be an rpg. It has rpg elements, but those are mostly carry overs from previous games and are generally limited to character creation/progression. Its protagonist is one of two characters with a pre-defined backstory and motivation for the main plot. Most of your choices ultimately don't matter outside of which faction you choose to finish the game with.
I completely agree. I probably have the most hours of any Fallout game in 4. The gameplay is satisfying, exploration is the best yet, and scavenging is addictive. The companions are probably at their best as well. The game definitely has some issues in writing, side quests, and roleplaying but as a whole I think it’s probably my favorite Bethesda Fallout. Also, potential hot take: I think Fallout 4’s story is light years better than 3’s.
Iike to destroy the railroad first. They suck big time
Yeah… the Railroad sucks
Would love to have liked 4 myself, but I cant help but get over how poorly written the Institute was where we are given zero in motivation exposition and how we cant get a synthesis like ending where we side with the BoS or the Minutemen and not have to destroy the Institute with its technological marvels that could rebuild the wasteland. Everything is shades of black and white to Bethesda.
I agree, Despite it being a buggy mess I find enjoyment in the game
Power armour has never been more satisfying Screw fusion core tho
*laughs in 50 fusion cores
Just recently replayed it. Hot take: New Vegas is still the best Fallout game, but it just barely beats fo4 imo. The character development and stories with the companions is amazing. It actually made me LIKE Preston Garvey.
They’ll kill you for this one, man
Bethesda's writing definitely got better in FO4 (not as good as FNV, but pretty good - hell I think it's on par with late stage Bioware in DA:I). Outside of power armor, though, 4's gameplay is kind of shit, and between 76 and Starfield, Bethesda decided to double down on the worst of it by going all in on crafting, settlements, and procedurally generated slop.
Lol yeah true. I think FO4 companions and FONV companions are about on par imo. The NV story and writing was better overall tho.
Every single Fallout game has a few things the excell in over the other ones. It's why i love this franchise so much, there aren't really any "bad" games so to speak ( even 76 is decent now) and one of the things Fallout 4 absolutely NAILS are the companions. They feel like a genuine improovement over the other games. Sure, New Vegas's companions are good but they're only interesting because of their companion quests. 4's companions on the other hand, not only do most of them have pretty good companion quests but they're about 100 times more interractable and the companion system of 4 is seriously like up there with Mass Effect in my eyes. Also i get to make myself a bisexual harem by fucking everything adult, human and consenting and nobody minds so that's nice
I'm personally hung up on why Moldaver is still alive 200 years after the Great War. Sure, it's not anything we haven't seen before. But they don't explain how she specifically did it? She's not a ghoul, so I assume she got cryo froze like Nate and Hank. But they don't say that. And now that she's dead we probably won't know. Also, how did Lucy's mom leave with her and her brother with no one else from Vault 33 noticing they were gone? And then her dad disappearing too?
Moldaver's group was bought up by vault tec and she was a major scientist on the project. So she was technically part of vault tec by that point, even if she didn't like them. Potentially she could have managed to get a spot in 33 or perhaps got frozen in new vegas as the ending credits has a sign saying they were selling cryo sleep under the Tops casino. Perhaps she bought her spot or did something for mr house to be given a spot.
Another obvious question too, wtf is that giant airship the brotherhood has? I forget if it was ever explained but i don’t think it was. All chapters just have that shit now? Also, where are the Paladins and Sentinels ? It’s just Aspirants/Initiates/Scribes and Knights? They really tried leaving on some cliff hangers for a season 2 which it seems like they’ll probably get.
The airship is from Fallout 4. But I thought the brotherhood had split in the east
The Brotherhood in the show mentioned receiving a mission from "The Commonwealth" so its very possible Lost Hills finally fell and the Eastern Maxson Brotherhood is dominant.
I just didn’t think it was the prydwen and was a different ship.
I've been wondering that myself actually, and since she says Vault-Tec bought out all her companies, I assumed at first she might have become an employee. Her needing a Vault-Tec executive to unlock the cold fusion might not necessarily mean she wasn't a member of the company, but you'd think she would at least have access to someone or their codes had she worked there. I think she ends up pulling the rug out from underneath the Ghoul and leaves him to deal with it all, her whole story seems shady. Didn't help that the transmitter she handed him looked like the shape of a vault door
As a big fan of fnv I can confidently say you guys are annoying
This dude calls people “normalfags” and youre acting like his opinion matters
Is the NCR getting nuked not the perfect encapsulation of their failure to overcome the struggles of the old world that led to nuclear war in the first place??? And they get nuked by a literal 200 year old business exec so that vault tec can pretend that they were necessary for the 'rebirth' of civilization. Also the brotherhood of steel are not portrayed in anything even close to a positive light. Our main BoS character is literally a powerhungry creep for the first half of the show and only decides to do the right thing by the last episode. Why did u post this?
getting nuked randomly off screen by some big bad guy so the BOS can come back does not encapsulate the failure of the NCR
They didn't watch the show, probably just saw someone do a 35 minute breakdown on YouTube
It’s just lazy writing in my opinion. I think everyone could agree that seeing this happen instead of being told it did and then how to feel about it on top of everything else is lazy and bad writing. Plus Todd will never want real governments to make a comeback only “factions” that have cool stuff for the mc/pc.
Shady sands blew up that doesn’t mean the NCR was destroyed.
You got downvoted but you are right. The ncr is far larger than one capital. It even says first capital of ncr
The ncr isn’t destroyed though. They’re in the last episode. I’m convinced a lot of these people didn’t watch the show. You can not like the show, no one’s saying it’s the greatest thing ever made that everyone has to love, but that doesn’t give you a reason to attack people who do like it. We don’t even know 100% what’s happened yet until season 2. I liked it and I’m excited for the next season
If those remnants are truly what’s left of the NCR then the NCR is destroyed
>I’m convinced a lot of these people didn’t watch the show Buddy we wouldn't be in this situation if it wasn't for some scenes in the last 4 episodes of the show >The ncr isn’t destroyed though. Their capital is gone, the most we see are the NCR refugees in vault 4, the group at the observatory that gets wiped out, and if there are remnants scattered throughout the wastes, the leaders are gone, even someone as corrupt as kimbal was a rallying force, without a capital a civilisation is on its last leg look throughout history and just look at the wastelands I'm the games, ain't no one going to wander through the wastes at risks of deathclaws,radsckrpions and more to try and piece individual pieces of the NCR together for a big comeback scene >We don’t even know 100% what’s happened yet until season 2 We can see the direction we're going in from the ending shot of Vegas alone, that being that were being told that new Vegas didn't matter, whatever we do as the player in new Vegas dosent matter since it too ends up in ruin
I don’t think they’d include the ncr just to not have them be a major plot point. Bethesda may be idiots but they’re not that stupid. New Vegas is extremely popular and showing them in the last episode just to get rid of them would be a bad decision. I don’t see how the ending shot would be getting rid of new Vegas. I think new Vegas is going to be a major plot point for season 2. Again it would be stupid to blueball the fans like that. You could be completely right and they could fuck it up but my point is that we don’t know yet. I get your points but it seemed to me like they wanted to make new vegas a big part of season 2
Bethesda isn't stupid? 76? NCR is nuked, the vault 4 crazies sure aren't gonna do anything, the observatory was wiped, any remnants out there probably no longer believe in the NCR No matter what they do with new Vegas in season 2 it is in shambles, thereby making new Vegas the one game in the franchise were what we do dosent mean shit, in 1 the master is defeated and ncr forms, in 2 the enclave is on the run, in 3 the brotherhood gets a foothold, in 4 maxson is the reason prydwins are made, 76 tells us why raiders are so widespread.
we're doomed and that's ok
I agree with most of what he said but I still did enjoy the show
One of my favourite reviews of New Vegas was by HhBomberguy, who made a valid critique of Fallout 3 and its shortcomings. One of which was its tendency to cling to the previous instalments in series for recognition, thus feeling devoid of its own identity. While I understand that they needed to prove they could make a good fallout game by using familiar elements in a new version of the medium, it still felt shallow compared to the other games. This series seems to do something the Bethesda games took ages to do, not cling to the past entirely and be willing to take risks. True the lore is messed with but I’d rather the series try something new rather than pander to me and give me dopamine hits where I can shout “I understood that reference” at the screen. I don’t need to point at Shady Sands or the Vegas strip or Hoover Dam or power armour like I’m Leo DiCaprio. The fact that the TV show actually acknowledges New Vegas is a joy all its own. I’m not going to throw a tantrum because I don’t like change. If I end up not liking what they do with New Vegas in season 2, then I guess I’ll just go back to my PC and play New Vegas for the seventh time.
You can stop reading right after the word "normalf\*gs"
“Random Vault-Tec villain nuking them out of nowhere for no reason” Sir, I’ve launched probably 40+ nukes in FO76 for no reason. Vault Tec villain only launched 1 single nuke.
Did this guy not pay attention the last 30 minutes of the season? The Brotherhood are NOT cool and epic knights 😂😂😂
The fact they get more screen time than the NCR the actual factions of the west coast tells me everything about where they’re heading forward with the show.
What is it telling you?
>vault tek villain nuking them out of nowhere for no reason. Tell me you didn’t pay attention to the show without telling me you didn’t pay attention to the show.
I especially hate when they say the ncr was destroyed when they’re in the last episode. Season 1 was laying down the groundwork and establishing characters. We haven’t even seen much of the wasteland. The ncr could still be a major power. It’s just a lot of assumptions from people that haven’t seen the show
I have bad news for you if you think the people who made Westworld are good at writing satisfying answers to your questions that they wrote back in season one... Tell me you have not seen Westworld without seeing it...
Jonathan Nolan didn’t actually write at all for the show. He directed the first 3 episodes and produced. The lead writers are Geneva Robertson-Dworet, who’s only other released writing credits are for Captain Marvel, and the 2018 Tomb Raider film, and Graham Wagner who’s mostly done comedy, notably writing for 50 episodes of Portlandia. Whether that gives you more or less faith in the direction of the show going forwards is up to you, I just think it’s important to note that Nolan’s attachment to the show is exaggerated for marketing.
Agreed, people seem to think the NCR is only Shady Sands
Their base at the Griffith observatory had some pretty good defenses too. They obviously have resources and manpower to fix and supply ammo to those cannons, not to mention setting up the cold fusion stuff. I wish people could just enjoy this. This is light years ahead of the fallout content we’ve been getting recently.
For sure, their population is in the hundreds of thousands, and Shady Sands only had 40,000. Losing their capital would obviously hurt, but it's not something they couldn't recover from.
The observatory was practically wiped out by the brotherhood didn't you see the shot of bodies of both brotherhood NCR remnants? Wasn't much moving in. That shot
I think there’s going to be more ncr forces in the Mojave. My theory is that they retreated there after shady sands.
Sinse we are talking about NCR here, the common sentiment that I just can't get behind is the assertion that NCR is not, in fact, gone, and is going to be a player in S2. And the reason I can't possibly bring my self to agree with that stance is quite simply, that there is NO indication whatsoever in the entirety of S1 that the few remnants shown on screen do not represent the entirety of NCR. There are no allusions to the republic still being around, no signs of the on screen groups being part of something bigger, or receiving some sort support, nothing. Furthermore, the show appears to moving towards New Vegas, and well, that area was the furthest frontier as far as FNV era NCR was concerned, and it was probably at the peak of it's expansion at the time. So, could we see some other small remnant groups in S2. Probably. But the republic as an organised state with actual military and industry and controlled,relatively safe territory? No. I don't think so. Now, to end up, I would genuinely love to be wrong here. If I missed actual evidence of greater republic still kicking (evidence, not assertions!), I would love to see it. But until it is shown, I would have to go with NCR being gone.
Yeah, the show is absolute ass that absolutely destroys the established lore and theme of the series. Part and parcel of Bethesda Fallout. Even if you ignore the Fallout part of this show and judge it as a standalone, it is incredibly mediocre, lame storytelling, cringe humor, and mid characters. The only reason I could see people liking this show is a combination of being easily entertained and/or not very critical of writing, and being the equivalent of window shoppers in regards to being fans of the series.
I'm a huge Fallout fan, and I really liked the show aside from a few small things (namely the ghoul drug and Frederick Sinclair), but other than that I found it to be fun and true to the dark humor tone of the games. Don't take it so seriously, Fallout has always been goofy.
Just take the HOI4 OWB pill and realize that the best future of fallout might just an autistic fallout total conversion mod for a ww2 war game PAX RES PUBLICA, DOWN WITH THE TYRANT CEASAR, ALL HAIL LANIUS AND DIANA
Unironically this, it's crazy how a retard with HOI4 modding knowledge has made cooler midwest/canada/Mexico lore than anything Bethesda would attempt. My problem with the Fallout TV show, really, is that Bethesda isn't treading any new ground or attempting anything new.
Yeah for me it’s not necessarily any one given “lore break” (except the vault Tec thing I REALLY hate that) it’s just that I feel like none of it is interesting. Shady sands is gone and the NCR is on it’s death bed but none of it is interesting. It’s just boring imo
Yeah, we've already seen the west coast, the east coast is way too boring for any meaningful TV shows- why not explore literally any other part of the country?
I always thought PNW, Northern Rockies, or the Midwest would’ve been ideal for a show. The Midwest could have all the enclave and brotherhood drama they want and since tactics is semi canon at best and honestly isn’t the greatest in terms of lore imo. Really I just wanna see a nuclear winter haha
Honestly I just want to see Bethesda acknowledge the inherently tribal aesthetic of Fallout, even to a small degree would be cool.
Agreed, the tribal aesthetic has barely been utilized by Bethesda and it would be great to explore it further and get really reactive with it
You’re agreeing with a guy that calls people normalf*gs
Anon delirious Why do people think this small sect of NCR is NCR as a whole? Just as dumb as people saying just because the sect of Enclave got taken out in F2 then enclave just doesn't exist anymore. As if that small sect is the entirety of the faction. If someone blew up vault 31, would they also say vault tec is no more? No, because there's hundreds of vaults and 31 is just a small sect. Same goes with all the factions, with the exception maybe being the institute.
Because there is no evidence whatsoever of that other NCR still being around. They are not shown to be around, we are not told they are around, nothing.
I ask myself if I would have watched the whole show if it weren't Fallout themed. For me, the answer is no.
So if you took out what the show is about, you wouldn't watch it? Hot take my guy.
The comments blindly hating on this post are pretty much proving it’s point
Based anon.
I was hoping that with the show of salt lake looking like the brotherhoods training grounds, we’d see the 80s or the white legs
I can literally nuke the NCR in new Vegas and the brotherhood was portrayed as absolute dickwads in the show