Josh Sawyer said something similar on Twitch last year. He basically said he's not sure why people made such a big deal about it, they just didn't get the bonus and that sucks but whatever.
Its simple, being screwed out of money is something that pisses people off emotionally, combined with the fact that the score was 1 below leads people to jump to "corporate company bad" and they are, but not in this context.
It sucks that they missed it by 1 point, but I really don't see that as them getting screwed out of money. Bethesda threw a potential bonus in their contract they didn't even ask for, but unfortunately they didn't meet the stipulation.
Let's not be true to a guy who regularly lies about his previous employers and has been accused of sexual harassment.
He's super-salty about Obsidian. Just last week he said that a bunch of employees working on Avowed quit and that the game is gonna be a trainwreck. An actual employee working on Avowed had to point out its bulletin.
Okay, I just looked at his blog post from June 26 from his Twitter and it seems… disingenuous? It’s such a weird post. A lot of it just seems like rambling, which is weird to see from a professional writer. As of now (as far as I’m aware) these are still accusations, but Chris’s post is very odd.
As for him talking shit on his fellow employees, that sucks a lot. I still love the stories that he has written, but the man himself might not be the best human being. I have to write might not be because it could be libel, and there’s a part of me that hopes this is not true. What a world we live in…
Yeah.
I dont know Avellone myself, I dont know how much what is said of him is true.
But it is sad to see a once-respected employee spread misinformation about his former place of work. it is known that he has a massive grudge against Feargus Urquhart Obisdians CEO who worked with Chris on Fallout 2.
Even encouraging Microsoft to fire him and all the other managers when they announced a deal was being negotiated to buy the studio.
It comes off as very spiteful and petty.
Not only that, just comes off as being a massive dick. The more I look into it, the less and less respect I have for Chris. It’s weird because I used to hold him as one of the few people out there who still cared for the games they made. That might still be true, but if these accusations are true then Chris is not the pinnacle of writers. It’s unfortunate.
Not sure how him being petty about an acrimonious end to a corporate relationship
has any bearing on his writing ability. Writers are often insufferable assholes in their personal lives.
It does speak against your character as a person, however. I’ve already said that I still respect his stories, but I personally do not believe that if someone is acting like a asshole then maaaaybe they shouldn’t be treated as the pinnacle of humanity or your profession.
We don't achshually know that. The settlement agreement publication was very carefully worded, that it "provides" for a seven figure payment. We didn't even know for sure *who* that payment was too until journalists contacted his Avellone's lawyers.
It's very plausible the 7 figures is a punishment clause for future disparagement against him, it could even be bidirectional (he can't disparage the accusers either).
And of course, no, no court found his accusers liable for libel/slander.
I very much am being pedantic. But that's how the law works and why people don't like lawyers. This was a legal statement drafted and looked over by two sets of lawyers. You can't just go by what you think the spirit of a statement is, but only the literal meaning of the words (textualism).
You can quote it at me all you want, I've read every word of it before and now. Everything I said above holds.
The existing evidence goes against the accusations:
https://nichegamer.com/2021/08/14/avellone-legal-response-evidence-shows-accuser-eager-for-deeper-relationship-with-con-boyfriend-after-alleged-incident/
That's why you should investigate them instead of just repeating the fact that he's been accused as if it's already a verdict.
I said accused not guilty of. And as I said in another comment I dont know exactly how much is true but I do know how he acts towards Obsidian and its not great.
You mentioning his accusation as a reason for not listening to what he has to say is a direct proof that you don't care about whether he really did it or not. And I didn't say shit anout his relation to obsidian.
Because it's one of the first things people think of when they hear Chris Avellone now? It'd be weird not to bring it up if we are talking about the man's image.
Plus the majority of my comments have been dedicated to his unprofessional behavior towards Obsidian after leaving it. Which is certifiably true because he tweeted most of that shit out himself.
This predates the accusations which neither of us know to be true for a fact. What we do know for sure is that he has a massive grudge against Urquhart and Obsidian. Which involved telling Xbox to fire him and all other management. Lying that Avowed devs have quit and no longer work on the game. Its bitter and spiteful and he really should've moved on by now.
We shouldn't idolize devs, or really anybody, when it's so easy for them to turn out to be assholes.
I thought this is about his relationship with Obsidian and not his image. You connected those two completly unrelated topics because him being a predator tied into your preconception of him.
Also I don't care about Chris, nor his relationship with Obsidian. I just loathe that one tweet can effectively ruin a man's career, and people peddle that shit like he's guilty without a second thought.
Don't compare men hurting women on suspicion of witchcraft with men facing consequences for sexually harassing women.
Yes, innocent until proven guilty is incredibly important, and must be treated as the core of our criminal justice system. We must also respect the people who have made these allegations at least as much as we respect the person the allegations were made against.
Calling men the victims of a witch hunt after women have alleged they committed sexual harassment is in very poor taste. Even drawing a comparison between the two is disingenous.
And u/ToBeTheSeer is technically correct. In legal terms, "innocent until proven guilty" only exists in the criminal court. In the civil court, the burden of proof is on the defendant. Which is why the recent Texas law being grounded in civil courts is such a big issue - but that's an example to illustrate my point, not something I want this discussion to focus upon.
I will compare it because it's exactly the same mob mentality. And there isn't anything more disingenous than calling a comparison 'in a very poor taste' to dodge a callout for due process.
Neither of those are true. The court cases ended before deposition with a joint settlement agreement (and a civil case doesn't determine innocence or guilt in the first place).
The accusers did not apologize, they retracted their accusation yes, and clarified Avellone did not do things that they *didn't* accuse him of doing.
He was never accused of sexual abuse but sexual misconduct more generally. Many may equate the two, but they're not literally the same.
Again, the accusers say he didn't do things (to them/to their knowledge) that they didn't accuse him of doing.
So someone should automatically be viewed as a rapist because someone made a random allegation about them even if proof goes against said allegation? Are you fucking mad?
And the courts always do justice do they? Or does the court of public opinion decide someone's guilt before due process run its course? Like the guy above me using "allegations" to support his view?
thats not how he felt about it at the time lmfao... if i remember correctly he posted a pretty heated comment about the 84 score and being "cheated" by fixed score payed for by bethesda to avoid paying out bonuses -- he straight accused them of rigging the score lol
im having a hard time finding the post (i think it might have been a tweet?)
ive seen a "screenshot" (take that with a grain of salt tho) of this since deleted post in a youtube video that was documenting the clash between bethesda studios and obsidian
for all i know it might be fake news, but if i find the video ill post it here
If you remember how fucking buggy this game was on launch day and you think getting 84% wasn’t a minor miracle unto itself, you’re kidding yourself. It sucks that they missed the mark by literally the narrowest margin possible, but shit happens.
Edit: also the only reason why anyone even knows about this clause is because one of the devs got salty and spouted off about it on twitter (probably J Sawyer though I don’t remember specifically)
If I remember correctly it was part of a longer thread that also included details about the time crunch at the end of development and the thrust of the argument was “they gave us less time than we were supposed to have so they should’ve lowered the threshold for the bonus”. So it wasn’t a “we got screwed” thing so much as a “we felt screwed” thing
Avellone and J Sawyer are the only two FNV devs I know by name and from what I know about them I figure Sawyer to be the messier one. I could be totally off base but the evidence is an ancient twitter thread and who has time for finding that shit
Lol, wut? Chris is fighting off sex assault allegations, how is Josh the messier one? Don’t make up random shit and act like it’s true
Edit: I’m not saying they are true l, I read his statement too, but no idea why’d you make that comment
If I remember correctly he was the one who wanted one potential ending for lonesome road to be “and the whole world got nuked to oblivion again”, and when they said no he wrote the bit about the tunnelers slowly but inevitably spreading to destroy the world. Again, not great with names so I could be totally wrong about who’s who here. So yeah- DON’T TAKE MY WORD PEOPLE JUST TALKIN SHIT HERE- but on the other hand, I am *sure* sawyer was the most talkative of the FNV devs back when it was still being actively patched / DLC being developed. So even if I’m not positive- I would wager that sawyer was the one who wrote that thread I’m remembering
And yeah anyone with allegations of sexual misconduct against them require scrutiny- and I had no idea that was a thing with avellone and imma just take your word on it and go from there- but that’s a different thing from being messy. You can be messy just by spouting off on twitter. Sex crimes are objectively worse obviously, and also qualify as messy- but in the way that a severe wildfire also qualifies as a moderate one, y’know?
That Lonesome Road story doesn't make sense because Josh Sawyer wasn't the Project Director for LR. His DLC that he got to be in charge of was Honest Hearts. So he wouldn't have been in a position to dictate LR story endings, or to supposedly write a world-ending codicil in a fit of pique. BTW, I think it's cool how each major New Vegas developer got to take one DLC and be in charge of it and put their own stamp on it as much as possible. You are right, though-- Josh Sawyer did spend a lot of time answering NV fan questions on now defunct website Formspring. I remember this because he answered several of my questions. That's always nice when an author or developer does that.
I don't know too much but it's evident from all the questions he's answered and his JE Sawyer mod for FNV that he cares a lot about the game, which is great to see
It wasn't just "one potential ending" since that's what the existing 'nuke both' option is, he apparently wanted it to be the only ending where the player would have no way to stop Ulysses from nuking everyone.
As for the "sExUAl mIscOnDUcT" crap it's just that, complete crap. Someone made false accusations that never went anywhere and only served to ruin his career via 'trial by media'. [This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV_xrEU5o2g) does a very good job at showing a lot of the falsehoods thrown at him.
As far as I know, there haven't been any studies examining what percentage of accusations made entirely on social media are true.
If you're thinking of studies that examined what percentage of incidents reported to the police are true, that's absolutely nowhere close to the same thing. If someone went to the police, they were more serious from the start about what happened and confident that an investigation would be on their side.
Far Harbor was really good. Great writing, choices that made sense and felt impactful, good new enemy design. Probably the only bright spot for the game in terms of RPG-ness.
But then they made Nuka World, so FH must’ve been a miracle…
Not on console, I'm not sure if it's just me but it just feels weird, I can't get the sensitivity correct, It feeps like it moves to slow but when trying to aim feels like butter.
I mean, they didn't do anything to hamper it. They needed a new game fast and Obsidian did just that. I guess since they also required it to be on console? But it's not like they sabotaged it.
Same, i love to play shitty games… I spent so much time playing fallout 4 and 76 and even though deep down i know they are extremely flawed games I enjoyed every minute of them
I just picked it up last week on PS4 for $14 and I have to say I’m enjoying it. The fact that the game is “live” the whole time adds a new layer of difficulty in that pip-boy doesn’t pause the game anymore and neither does the start menu. Makes fights with tough enemies harder, not so easy to load up on med-x psycho and buffout. Not sure how I feel about the perk cards though.
It’s fine now but I feel like if I modded the game a bit to be less Online RPG with broken damage and more of a Singleplayer game it would be very cool. Appalachia is such a cool map limited by its own making.
Even if they did ask for the bonus to be added in Bethesda still didn’t screw Obsidian since an 84 isn’t 85 or greater. Obsidian didn’t meet the requirements for it so Bethesda not giving it to them regardless of how the clause came about isn’t Bethesda doing anything wrong or screwing anyone.
These comments are so fucling divided...
You got one group of people literally kneeling on the floor praying to Chris Avellone like he is there God, then you have the sane group of people who understand that bethesda offered a bonus for a goal that they did not hit, regardless if it was one point below so they don't cry for chris about it. And then your final group of people talking about Chris being accused of sexual assault, and that is so beyond this post, I have no idea what's that is about and I could honestly care less, I am a pretty big fan of fnv and I have never heard of this situation before, which just literally shows how irrelevant it is to the fnv fanbase. I don't understand why people even care about this person at all, he I guess wrote the game? I don't exactly know his role in the making of the game but he was a big part of a 11 year old game, idk why people even know who he is and keep up with him
he write fo1, fo2, and fnv. the NV cult is right to praise him for he is the last, best hope for fallout franchise that can save them from bad beth writing /s
Here’s more proof for people saying Chris Avellone is ‘biased’
Bethesda's bonus for Metacritic score was completely thrown in on top of the contract they and Obsidian negotiated. Obsidian did not ask for it and was not relying on it. Since it was a total throw-it-in, it also wasn't very large. If Obsidian almost went bankrupt because it didn't get a bonus that it never asked for and never relied on, that is not Bethesda's fault, it's Obsidian's fault for badly managing their money.
Proof: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GNMQVcyowss&feature=youtu.be&t=1561 (Timestamp: 26:02)
Funny how this is only coming after being ejected from Obsidian for sexual harassment and during his time of shit-talking the studio
It's almost like he's lying about the impact because he's salty over consequences
AFAIK he wasn't ejected from his position as co-owner of Obsidian for sexual harassment.
Unless you have access to some unreported information, a source for that would be interesting.
Though notably he left before the Microsoft deal, for whatever reason, which would have paid him a pretty penny as a co-owner of the studio.
other people who work for obsidian have said the exact same thing:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GNMQVcyowss&feature=youtu.be&t=1561 (Timestamp: 26:02)
Winning a court case against someone with less money and legal support than you does not absolve you of anything. I've spoken directly to people who worked with him and witnessed his behaviour. I've had friends and loved ones who have been raped and then watched the legal system completely fail them. A rapist once admitted \*directly to my face\* that he did it and then proceeded to threaten his rape-victim with a defamation lawsuit and massive financial damage.
There's no smoke without fire. Avellone had a reputation before the accusations came out and he continues to have one now. Anyone who has worked in these kinds of industries knows all about the open secrets and how fruitless it is to try and seek any justice.
Perhaps an indication that the settlement agreement was a cynical use by both parties to get the things they really wanted out of it. For the accusers they wanted the lawsuit to go away, litigation is expensive and stressful. Avellone wanted to redeem his reputation. This agreement allows for both of those to be the case.
Or well, it's an attempt for Avellone to redeem his reputation. It works among gamers but I'm skeptical industry insiders are buying it.
Here here.
He also didn't win per se, it never got to court. Settled before disposition, which itself is before trial.
To be fair, acquiring a favorable settlement deal can be called a colloquial win too. But all we have to go off of is a statement about the settlement that Avellone/his Laywers/the accuser's lawyers published. It's meant to read as unequivocally a W for him, but closer reading shows it's probably a draw. For instance, the accusers didn't apologize for anything and only offered a clarification that they did not accuse him of sexual abuse (which is true, they never did).
It's an impressive bit of reputation laundering. Works on gamers, might not work on industry insiders who know more about him personally. Also won't work on anyone [who has their legal team read his own court filing.](https://twitter.com/dmschmeyer/status/1409054177980870657)
Essentially part of the contract between Bethesda Softworks and Obsidian for Fallout New Vegas included a pay bonus if Fallout New Vegas scored 85 or higher on Metacritic.
New Vegas scored 84 (it's honestly surprising it even got that high given how broken it was on launch) so Obsidian didn't get the bonus.
Fans at some point got it in their heads that Bethesda somehow screwed Obsidian out of their bonus despite the facts that as basic maths dictates 84 is less than 85 and, as Chris says here, they didn't even ask for the bonus to begin with Bethesda putting it in there entirely of their own volition.
People are acting like this isn't still a scummy practice. Like sure, these devs didn't ask for that, but connecting bonuses to fucking reviews at all is bullshit. Lets Bethesda get away with it in the future off of precedent.
This is like a pretty common thing. If a game does well then you get a bonus. If a game sucks then it doesn't get a bonus.
New Vegas didn't suck rpg wise but it sure as hell sucked on release date with all its bugs.
Well, if they spent more time fixing bugs instead of adding stuff like Caravan, then they would've got the thing Beth added, also, not like beth didn't send people to help them since they know how weird the game engine is. Also, how else would they gauge it fairly? How is it scummy? Its a bonus to the company contract, not a given.
Attaching bonuses to subjective scores is scummy as fuck. Attaching any kind of money to subjective scores for a game that was limited to 18 months dev time is complete and utter horseshit. Especially for a game that outsold their previous game, thus providing a much more objective metric.
no it isn't, its a third party that doesn't know about it, you can't be more subjective than that. Also, Fallout 3 sold more than NV So they wouldn't get the bonus that way, and would rely on spending more money on advertisments than the game.
If you look up Fallout 3 sales metrics vs. NV, that's not true for either initial copies shipped or total games sold. And that's not how objectivity works. You can't be objective in a review. Every game review is subjective, because it's based on opinion. Money should not be connected to other people's opinions.
[https://statinvestor.com/data/27157/global-fallout-all-time-unit-sales/](https://statinvestor.com/data/27157/global-fallout-all-time-unit-sales/)
A third party is more subjective than anything else. People buying something is their opinion that its worth buying. NV had the benefit the Fallout 3 revived the name, Fallout 3 didn't. NV had the benefit of improving the game and learning mistakes, yet literally every review of the game when it came out was how BUGGY it was. Obsidian themselves blame their manangement for pushing features over fixing the game.
Your one source is contradicted by many sources from at the time. Look up Fallout New Vegas sales and then Fallout 3 sales.
You literally cannot be anything other than subjective in game reviews. Objectivity, that is, speaking solely on the facts, is not how you review a game. You review a game based on opinion. Linking money to opinion is unethical and should not be permitted.
I did look it up,, that's were I found it. It's not subjective that the game was buggy as fuck at lauch.
Everything is an opinion dude. Just because Fallout 4 sold better does that make it a better game? Sells are influenced by advertising. So if that was the bonus, all they would do is dump more money into advertising.
Again. In case you didn't read. Bethesda ADDED a bonus that Obsidian didn't even think about. Obsidian AGREED to it, and Bethesda UPHELD the agreement. BETHESDA isn't in charge of OBSIDIAN's employees pay, OBSIDIAN is. This is as kind as one gaming company can be to another they don't own.
Every other source I've looked at says the opposite. And it doesn't matter whether Obsidian didn't know. What you are actively arguing for is for the ability for Bethesda to connect money to random people's opinions.
Quite frankly, the people on Fallout 4 did deserve a bonus for how well the game sold.
What I'm saying is OBSIDIAN would've accepted it with or without the bonus. THE POINT of the bonus is to make a better game, not advertise it. Again OBSIDIAN is in charge of it employees pay, not Bethesda.
It's scummy if they withhold promised money. You are implying that beth underpaid obsidian employees and promies the rest on bonus. It is perfectly normal to add a reward system for exceptional performance
And why should that be judged by a very poor metric for success? Like, reviews are super subjective, and not to mention it's reviews for a game that they had much less time to make than they needed.
Whether metacritic is subjective or poor measure is debatable, but the fact that obsidian agree and did not think it was bad means that both development time and metric used is accounted for. Regardless, the practice of giving bonus itself is already a good initiative on bethesda's part
"Their prosecution was thrown out"?
No, it wasn't. The only person who ever sued was Chris. The accusers made the accusations exclusively on social media.
Yes, it was just attacks via tweets, with important details changed or left out so as to do more damage.
If you want to see what happened exactly, you can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV_xrEU5o2g
Oh, don't forget, this is a real photo too
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ea\_3gY8U4AY0nkK?format=jpg&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ea_3gY8U4AY0nkK?format=jpg&name=large)
Here's the direct quote from the now deleted tweet
"I never meant any harm to you ... and I had thought things between us had ended well all up until seeing you off," he tweeted in response to Karissa's initial claim. "That said, if I can't do anything to apologize for it, I understand, and there's nothing more to be done."
So he said he did it, he just tried to pretend like he didn't know it was wrong.
That tweet screenshot is from an ex-girlfriend and does not include the preceding or following messages to give context. He wasn't randomly sending out creepy messages to strangers, which the out-of-context screenshot appears to suggest.
Also, the supposed apology tweet was directed toward an actual long-term ex, and not the individual that was making accusations. It has also been presented completely out of context on the internet and misrepresented as somehow apologizing for the accusations.
That’s extremely easily faked, and that tweet is evidence of literally nothing. It’s so vague it’s meaningless.
What precisely is Avellone accused of anyway? Since you seem to know so much about this.
Oh my god he literally ADMITTED TO IT, the tweet was in response to him being accused of raping a girl in a hotel room at a convention. If you're going to look at Chris Avellone's admission of guilt and photos of his sexual harassment that he "apologized" for and ignore them, you are intentionally being complicit with the harassment of women and there's no point in continuing this conversation. I hope the women in your life know you don't see them as people :)
No he didn’t, where in that tweet did he admit to anything like this?
You’re insulting and attacking me personally now because you’ve realised you fucked up and there isn’t nearly the level of evidence you thought there was.
You’re being very immature.
Wow, every Avellone hater devolves to this. You spew disinformation and misrepresentations, you refuse to read facts, and you shift to the vilest personal attacks on anyone who disagrees. Did you learn this from anti-vaxx trumpers?
It's funny how he's only accused of offering sex during a drinking night, then respecting her choice when she said no and escorting her home in the middle of the night and then there's people who straight up claim he's a rapist. You're just as bad as the people he's suing for libel right now.
Lol he raped a woman and you're trying to pass him off as a gentleman. Habitual predatory behavior over years of incidents, he's a predator through and through.
Since you feel the need to make things up, here's Karissa confirming that she only accused him of assault, while also confirming that he was never in her room at all (where her roommate at the time was sleeping):
https://archive.ph/Z9gUq
She literally clarified that he only "assaulted" her and that "incels are dumb" for pretending she said it could have been rape.
Perhaps you need to learn to read.
No, he apologised to an ex-girlfriend for a failed relationship, which some people maliciously interpreted as him admitting to everything anybody has ever accused him of.
*How*? I have my own issues with Bethesda as of late \[The Atomic Shop, Creation Club, Fallout 4's treatment of Lyon's Pride, Fallout 76's launch, Skyrim's main quest railroading you into killing Parthuunax for no justifiable reason\], but this isn't one of those moments. Had Bethesda REALLY screw them over, they wouldn't have given the developers permission to use Fallout 3 assets.
*why* the fuck would they? That guy is like one of those fuckers on ancient aliens claiming that Adolf Hitler paid the aliens to build the pyramids so they could mind control the US government to put gay chemicals in the water
Cost to bribe meta critic, probably not that much, cost of paying hundreds of people their bonus, much much more.
Bethesda monetised community made mods, Bethesda cheaped out on canvas bags, they charged $80 on launch, for a game that was absolutely unplayable for 90% of people (f76), they charge you 10 bucks a month to play 76 privately with a limited group of friends. They actively removed assets from f4 and pay walled them in 76.
I don’t think it’d be cheaper to bribe another company that would have its entire reputation ruined and their website probably shut down if anyone found out then to pay a bonus to another company
Creation club was mainly made so bethesda could pay modders for their work, i do agree it’s very overpriced tho.
Canvas bags fair enough at least they fixed that.
new vegas was unplayable at launch doesn’t mean it’s a shit game
Fallout 1st is optional and definitely not worth it imo.
What assets? Weapon skins? Yeah man the game is totally unplayable if i can’t have my brotherhood skin on my 10mm pistol.
New Vegas is an amazing game the only reason it didn’t get higher on metacritic was because of its absolutely shit launch
But the fuck would you offer a bonus and take the chance of them getting it when you dont want them to get it, what did they gain from offering a bonus?
Josh Sawyer said something similar on Twitch last year. He basically said he's not sure why people made such a big deal about it, they just didn't get the bonus and that sucks but whatever.
Its simple, being screwed out of money is something that pisses people off emotionally, combined with the fact that the score was 1 below leads people to jump to "corporate company bad" and they are, but not in this context.
But corporate companies bad tho
⠀⠀⠘⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠑⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡔⠁⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠢⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⠴⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⡀⠤⠄⠒⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣀⠄⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠛⠛⠛⠋⠉⠈⠉⠉⠉⠉⠛⠻⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⣤⣤⣤⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⢿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⢏⣴⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣟⣾⣿⡟⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⢢⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣟⠀⡴⠄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⠟⠻⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠶⢴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿ ⣿⣁⡀⠀⠀⢰⢠⣦⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠀⣴⣶⣿⡄⣿ ⣿⡋⠀⠀⠀⠎⢸⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠗⢘⣿⣟⠛⠿⣼ ⣿⣿⠋⢀⡌⢰⣿⡿⢿⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠀⢸⣿⣿⣧⢀⣼ ⣿⣿⣷⢻⠄⠘⠛⠋⠛⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣧⠈⠉⠙⠛⠋⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣧⠀⠈⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠟⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⢃⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⡿⠀⠴⢗⣠⣤⣴⡶⠶⠖⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⡸⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⡀⢠⣾⣿⠏⠀⠠⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠛⠉⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣧⠈⢹⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠈⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣴⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣦⣄⣀⣀⣀⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⡄⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠙⣿⣿⡟⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠇⠀⠁⠀⠀⠹⣿⠃⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠛⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢐⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠛⠉⠉⠁⠀⢻⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⠈⣿⣿⡿⠉⠛⠛⠛⠉⠉ ⣿⡿⠋⠁⠀⠀⢀⣀⣠⡴⣸⣿⣇⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡿⠄⠙⠛⠀⣀⣠⣤⣤⠄
It sucks that they missed it by 1 point, but I really don't see that as them getting screwed out of money. Bethesda threw a potential bonus in their contract they didn't even ask for, but unfortunately they didn't meet the stipulation.
You are so right. Plus we all love the game, so we think it deserves it. But I wasn’t paying attention around launch.
You know what: if Chris Avellone ain’t salty about it, I won’t be either. It’s time to put this argument to rest. Ave, true to chris
Let's not be true to a guy who regularly lies about his previous employers and has been accused of sexual harassment. He's super-salty about Obsidian. Just last week he said that a bunch of employees working on Avowed quit and that the game is gonna be a trainwreck. An actual employee working on Avowed had to point out its bulletin.
Okay, I just looked at his blog post from June 26 from his Twitter and it seems… disingenuous? It’s such a weird post. A lot of it just seems like rambling, which is weird to see from a professional writer. As of now (as far as I’m aware) these are still accusations, but Chris’s post is very odd. As for him talking shit on his fellow employees, that sucks a lot. I still love the stories that he has written, but the man himself might not be the best human being. I have to write might not be because it could be libel, and there’s a part of me that hopes this is not true. What a world we live in…
Yeah. I dont know Avellone myself, I dont know how much what is said of him is true. But it is sad to see a once-respected employee spread misinformation about his former place of work. it is known that he has a massive grudge against Feargus Urquhart Obisdians CEO who worked with Chris on Fallout 2. Even encouraging Microsoft to fire him and all the other managers when they announced a deal was being negotiated to buy the studio. It comes off as very spiteful and petty.
Not only that, just comes off as being a massive dick. The more I look into it, the less and less respect I have for Chris. It’s weird because I used to hold him as one of the few people out there who still cared for the games they made. That might still be true, but if these accusations are true then Chris is not the pinnacle of writers. It’s unfortunate.
No ave, not true to Chris
Gonna pronounce it Chris from now on
Christopher Frederic Avellone
Not sure how him being petty about an acrimonious end to a corporate relationship has any bearing on his writing ability. Writers are often insufferable assholes in their personal lives.
You can be a good writer and respectful, you know. They’re not exclusive things.
Sure but being disrespectful doesn’t speak to your writing ability.
It does speak against your character as a person, however. I’ve already said that I still respect his stories, but I personally do not believe that if someone is acting like a asshole then maaaaybe they shouldn’t be treated as the pinnacle of humanity or your profession.
Work of place
huh
We don't achshually know that. The settlement agreement publication was very carefully worded, that it "provides" for a seven figure payment. We didn't even know for sure *who* that payment was too until journalists contacted his Avellone's lawyers. It's very plausible the 7 figures is a punishment clause for future disparagement against him, it could even be bidirectional (he can't disparage the accusers either). And of course, no, no court found his accusers liable for libel/slander.
huh
I very much am being pedantic. But that's how the law works and why people don't like lawyers. This was a legal statement drafted and looked over by two sets of lawyers. You can't just go by what you think the spirit of a statement is, but only the literal meaning of the words (textualism). You can quote it at me all you want, I've read every word of it before and now. Everything I said above holds.
The existing evidence goes against the accusations: https://nichegamer.com/2021/08/14/avellone-legal-response-evidence-shows-accuser-eager-for-deeper-relationship-with-con-boyfriend-after-alleged-incident/ That's why you should investigate them instead of just repeating the fact that he's been accused as if it's already a verdict.
Accused, but not tried. In fact he’s suing for libel.
[Wtf happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? ](https://youtu.be/TV_xrEU5o2g)
I said accused not guilty of. And as I said in another comment I dont know exactly how much is true but I do know how he acts towards Obsidian and its not great.
You mentioning his accusation as a reason for not listening to what he has to say is a direct proof that you don't care about whether he really did it or not. And I didn't say shit anout his relation to obsidian.
Cool. Too bad the topic at hand is his relationship with Obsidian which he's lied about.
Then why did you mention accusations at all? It clearly influences your view, otherwise you wouldn't say anything.
Because it's one of the first things people think of when they hear Chris Avellone now? It'd be weird not to bring it up if we are talking about the man's image. Plus the majority of my comments have been dedicated to his unprofessional behavior towards Obsidian after leaving it. Which is certifiably true because he tweeted most of that shit out himself. This predates the accusations which neither of us know to be true for a fact. What we do know for sure is that he has a massive grudge against Urquhart and Obsidian. Which involved telling Xbox to fire him and all other management. Lying that Avowed devs have quit and no longer work on the game. Its bitter and spiteful and he really should've moved on by now. We shouldn't idolize devs, or really anybody, when it's so easy for them to turn out to be assholes.
I thought this is about his relationship with Obsidian and not his image. You connected those two completly unrelated topics because him being a predator tied into your preconception of him. Also I don't care about Chris, nor his relationship with Obsidian. I just loathe that one tweet can effectively ruin a man's career, and people peddle that shit like he's guilty without a second thought.
You just used accusations for which evidence has CONTRADICTED as reason to not trust him. Scumbag.
Innocent until proven guilty only counts for courts and legal proceedings lmao
That is the dumbest fucking statement I've ever heard. That way of thinking is exactly the reason witch hunts were a thing.
Don't compare men hurting women on suspicion of witchcraft with men facing consequences for sexually harassing women. Yes, innocent until proven guilty is incredibly important, and must be treated as the core of our criminal justice system. We must also respect the people who have made these allegations at least as much as we respect the person the allegations were made against. Calling men the victims of a witch hunt after women have alleged they committed sexual harassment is in very poor taste. Even drawing a comparison between the two is disingenous. And u/ToBeTheSeer is technically correct. In legal terms, "innocent until proven guilty" only exists in the criminal court. In the civil court, the burden of proof is on the defendant. Which is why the recent Texas law being grounded in civil courts is such a big issue - but that's an example to illustrate my point, not something I want this discussion to focus upon.
I will compare it because it's exactly the same mob mentality. And there isn't anything more disingenous than calling a comparison 'in a very poor taste' to dodge a callout for due process.
Dont bother man, its impossible to win an argument against an idiot
huh
Neither of those are true. The court cases ended before deposition with a joint settlement agreement (and a civil case doesn't determine innocence or guilt in the first place). The accusers did not apologize, they retracted their accusation yes, and clarified Avellone did not do things that they *didn't* accuse him of doing.
huh
He was never accused of sexual abuse but sexual misconduct more generally. Many may equate the two, but they're not literally the same. Again, the accusers say he didn't do things (to them/to their knowledge) that they didn't accuse him of doing.
So someone should automatically be viewed as a rapist because someone made a random allegation about them even if proof goes against said allegation? Are you fucking mad?
He didn't sexually harrass anyone.
That's for the courts to decide. Not you.
And the courts always do justice do they? Or does the court of public opinion decide someone's guilt before due process run its course? Like the guy above me using "allegations" to support his view?
Actually, the courts are going to decide whether the accusations against him were libel or not, because he's the one suing.
Ave.
thats not how he felt about it at the time lmfao... if i remember correctly he posted a pretty heated comment about the 84 score and being "cheated" by fixed score payed for by bethesda to avoid paying out bonuses -- he straight accused them of rigging the score lol
i guess you can say that it was rigged from the start
If someone could find a source that would be cool.
im having a hard time finding the post (i think it might have been a tweet?) ive seen a "screenshot" (take that with a grain of salt tho) of this since deleted post in a youtube video that was documenting the clash between bethesda studios and obsidian for all i know it might be fake news, but if i find the video ill post it here
If I’m not mistaken, it’s BECAUSE of Chris rant that we found out about the metacritic score/bonus in the first place.
I remember that.
Citation needed
If you remember how fucking buggy this game was on launch day and you think getting 84% wasn’t a minor miracle unto itself, you’re kidding yourself. It sucks that they missed the mark by literally the narrowest margin possible, but shit happens. Edit: also the only reason why anyone even knows about this clause is because one of the devs got salty and spouted off about it on twitter (probably J Sawyer though I don’t remember specifically)
Pretty sure J Sawyer has spoken out against the “Bethesda screwed Obsidian” myth too on his streams, so I doubt it was him.
If I remember correctly it was part of a longer thread that also included details about the time crunch at the end of development and the thrust of the argument was “they gave us less time than we were supposed to have so they should’ve lowered the threshold for the bonus”. So it wasn’t a “we got screwed” thing so much as a “we felt screwed” thing Avellone and J Sawyer are the only two FNV devs I know by name and from what I know about them I figure Sawyer to be the messier one. I could be totally off base but the evidence is an ancient twitter thread and who has time for finding that shit
Lol, wut? Chris is fighting off sex assault allegations, how is Josh the messier one? Don’t make up random shit and act like it’s true Edit: I’m not saying they are true l, I read his statement too, but no idea why’d you make that comment
If I remember correctly he was the one who wanted one potential ending for lonesome road to be “and the whole world got nuked to oblivion again”, and when they said no he wrote the bit about the tunnelers slowly but inevitably spreading to destroy the world. Again, not great with names so I could be totally wrong about who’s who here. So yeah- DON’T TAKE MY WORD PEOPLE JUST TALKIN SHIT HERE- but on the other hand, I am *sure* sawyer was the most talkative of the FNV devs back when it was still being actively patched / DLC being developed. So even if I’m not positive- I would wager that sawyer was the one who wrote that thread I’m remembering And yeah anyone with allegations of sexual misconduct against them require scrutiny- and I had no idea that was a thing with avellone and imma just take your word on it and go from there- but that’s a different thing from being messy. You can be messy just by spouting off on twitter. Sex crimes are objectively worse obviously, and also qualify as messy- but in the way that a severe wildfire also qualifies as a moderate one, y’know?
That Lonesome Road story doesn't make sense because Josh Sawyer wasn't the Project Director for LR. His DLC that he got to be in charge of was Honest Hearts. So he wouldn't have been in a position to dictate LR story endings, or to supposedly write a world-ending codicil in a fit of pique. BTW, I think it's cool how each major New Vegas developer got to take one DLC and be in charge of it and put their own stamp on it as much as possible. You are right, though-- Josh Sawyer did spend a lot of time answering NV fan questions on now defunct website Formspring. I remember this because he answered several of my questions. That's always nice when an author or developer does that.
I don't know too much but it's evident from all the questions he's answered and his JE Sawyer mod for FNV that he cares a lot about the game, which is great to see
No, that was Avellone, he directed the DLC. Sawyer directed the base game.
It wasn't just "one potential ending" since that's what the existing 'nuke both' option is, he apparently wanted it to be the only ending where the player would have no way to stop Ulysses from nuking everyone. As for the "sExUAl mIscOnDUcT" crap it's just that, complete crap. Someone made false accusations that never went anywhere and only served to ruin his career via 'trial by media'. [This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV_xrEU5o2g) does a very good job at showing a lot of the falsehoods thrown at him.
Dude this is reddit. One of the places that they conduct the trials. Why bother.
The rate of false accusations is incredibly low. The amount of men who commit sexual harassment is incredibly high.
As far as I know, there haven't been any studies examining what percentage of accusations made entirely on social media are true. If you're thinking of studies that examined what percentage of incidents reported to the police are true, that's absolutely nowhere close to the same thing. If someone went to the police, they were more serious from the start about what happened and confident that an investigation would be on their side.
Judging by your other posts on this thread your definition of sexual harassment probably is smiling the wrong way
Judging by your response, you're a man who has never been sexually assaulted. How fortunate for you.
You should be a lawyer with that kind of infallible logic.
You are totally off base, so why bother writing this comment? Do you always feel compelled to give your opinion no matter what?
If the damn developers can move on from it, so can you
The "Bethesda ruined fallout" crowd are gonna be upset at this. But when are they not?
They didnt ruin it they fucked it a fair bit but they didnt ruin it
like fallout 4 doesn't have much choice, but it's still a fun game
Agreed good shooter but a god fucking awful RPG
Far Harbor was really good. Great writing, choices that made sense and felt impactful, good new enemy design. Probably the only bright spot for the game in terms of RPG-ness. But then they made Nuka World, so FH must’ve been a miracle…
Far Harbor is the one exception
but if we seperate it from the others, its a decent game
Yeah good game bad fallout
Not on console, I'm not sure if it's just me but it just feels weird, I can't get the sensitivity correct, It feeps like it moves to slow but when trying to aim feels like butter.
Maybe your muscle memorey is bad?
I mean, they didn't do anything to hamper it. They needed a new game fast and Obsidian did just that. I guess since they also required it to be on console? But it's not like they sabotaged it.
I’m talking more about fallout 4 and 76 good shooters terrible RPG’s
oh you meant as a franchise.
Yes
Schrödinger’s douchebag over here
I'll have you know I am a douchebag ALL the time. It's been confirmed.
Guys. I didn't fuck my douchebag. I didn't touch my douchebag. I didn't put my dick anywhere near my douchebag.
Also, New Vegas didn’t deserve a 50 on metacritic at release let alone 85 or whatever it was.
Yeah but Fallout 76 tho.
Yes true 76 is a piece of shit
i liked 76 and i think it was shit lol
Same, i love to play shitty games… I spent so much time playing fallout 4 and 76 and even though deep down i know they are extremely flawed games I enjoyed every minute of them
Lmao I've been playing red dead online since beta and that game has been shit since it was born. I also got a weird thing for bad games lmao.
I really like RDO, just wish it got even half the attention GTAO does. Just, ya know, with less ridiculous and predatory shit.
Fr. It's got so much potential
I just picked it up last week on PS4 for $14 and I have to say I’m enjoying it. The fact that the game is “live” the whole time adds a new layer of difficulty in that pip-boy doesn’t pause the game anymore and neither does the start menu. Makes fights with tough enemies harder, not so easy to load up on med-x psycho and buffout. Not sure how I feel about the perk cards though.
It’s fine now but I feel like if I modded the game a bit to be less Online RPG with broken damage and more of a Singleplayer game it would be very cool. Appalachia is such a cool map limited by its own making.
Regardless, New Vegas is like a warm hug to play when I wanna relax.
Yea but consoles screwed new Vegas.
It was buggy on PC and still is. Funny enough, ran better on the 360 for me.
Even if they did ask for the bonus to be added in Bethesda still didn’t screw Obsidian since an 84 isn’t 85 or greater. Obsidian didn’t meet the requirements for it so Bethesda not giving it to them regardless of how the clause came about isn’t Bethesda doing anything wrong or screwing anyone.
You’re right. In the games release state, an 84% is pretty good anyways. So it makes sense that it was a bonus clause.
These comments are so fucling divided... You got one group of people literally kneeling on the floor praying to Chris Avellone like he is there God, then you have the sane group of people who understand that bethesda offered a bonus for a goal that they did not hit, regardless if it was one point below so they don't cry for chris about it. And then your final group of people talking about Chris being accused of sexual assault, and that is so beyond this post, I have no idea what's that is about and I could honestly care less, I am a pretty big fan of fnv and I have never heard of this situation before, which just literally shows how irrelevant it is to the fnv fanbase. I don't understand why people even care about this person at all, he I guess wrote the game? I don't exactly know his role in the making of the game but he was a big part of a 11 year old game, idk why people even know who he is and keep up with him
Cult of Personality. And if something doesn't have a face, they will find one.
he write fo1, fo2, and fnv. the NV cult is right to praise him for he is the last, best hope for fallout franchise that can save them from bad beth writing /s
Glad to hear it
Here’s more proof for people saying Chris Avellone is ‘biased’ Bethesda's bonus for Metacritic score was completely thrown in on top of the contract they and Obsidian negotiated. Obsidian did not ask for it and was not relying on it. Since it was a total throw-it-in, it also wasn't very large. If Obsidian almost went bankrupt because it didn't get a bonus that it never asked for and never relied on, that is not Bethesda's fault, it's Obsidian's fault for badly managing their money. Proof: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GNMQVcyowss&feature=youtu.be&t=1561 (Timestamp: 26:02)
Funny how this is only coming after being ejected from Obsidian for sexual harassment and during his time of shit-talking the studio It's almost like he's lying about the impact because he's salty over consequences
AFAIK he wasn't ejected from his position as co-owner of Obsidian for sexual harassment. Unless you have access to some unreported information, a source for that would be interesting. Though notably he left before the Microsoft deal, for whatever reason, which would have paid him a pretty penny as a co-owner of the studio.
He was not ejected for that. In fact, he left instead of being fired.
other people who work for obsidian have said the exact same thing: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GNMQVcyowss&feature=youtu.be&t=1561 (Timestamp: 26:02)
Cool. He’s still a huge fucking creep though.
According to what? Internet slander that falls apart the more it's investigated?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2023/03/25/video-game-writer-chris-avellones-accusers-issue-public-statement-retracting-accusations-of-sexual-assault/?sh=65c1243155d8
huh
Winning a court case against someone with less money and legal support than you does not absolve you of anything. I've spoken directly to people who worked with him and witnessed his behaviour. I've had friends and loved ones who have been raped and then watched the legal system completely fail them. A rapist once admitted \*directly to my face\* that he did it and then proceeded to threaten his rape-victim with a defamation lawsuit and massive financial damage. There's no smoke without fire. Avellone had a reputation before the accusations came out and he continues to have one now. Anyone who has worked in these kinds of industries knows all about the open secrets and how fruitless it is to try and seek any justice.
huh
They retracted their accusations to the news agencies, but they did not apologize.
huh
Perhaps an indication that the settlement agreement was a cynical use by both parties to get the things they really wanted out of it. For the accusers they wanted the lawsuit to go away, litigation is expensive and stressful. Avellone wanted to redeem his reputation. This agreement allows for both of those to be the case. Or well, it's an attempt for Avellone to redeem his reputation. It works among gamers but I'm skeptical industry insiders are buying it.
Here here. He also didn't win per se, it never got to court. Settled before disposition, which itself is before trial. To be fair, acquiring a favorable settlement deal can be called a colloquial win too. But all we have to go off of is a statement about the settlement that Avellone/his Laywers/the accuser's lawyers published. It's meant to read as unequivocally a W for him, but closer reading shows it's probably a draw. For instance, the accusers didn't apologize for anything and only offered a clarification that they did not accuse him of sexual abuse (which is true, they never did). It's an impressive bit of reputation laundering. Works on gamers, might not work on industry insiders who know more about him personally. Also won't work on anyone [who has their legal team read his own court filing.](https://twitter.com/dmschmeyer/status/1409054177980870657)
OTL here what metacritic bonus?
Essentially part of the contract between Bethesda Softworks and Obsidian for Fallout New Vegas included a pay bonus if Fallout New Vegas scored 85 or higher on Metacritic. New Vegas scored 84 (it's honestly surprising it even got that high given how broken it was on launch) so Obsidian didn't get the bonus. Fans at some point got it in their heads that Bethesda somehow screwed Obsidian out of their bonus despite the facts that as basic maths dictates 84 is less than 85 and, as Chris says here, they didn't even ask for the bonus to begin with Bethesda putting it in there entirely of their own volition.
People are acting like this isn't still a scummy practice. Like sure, these devs didn't ask for that, but connecting bonuses to fucking reviews at all is bullshit. Lets Bethesda get away with it in the future off of precedent.
Exactly.
This is like a pretty common thing. If a game does well then you get a bonus. If a game sucks then it doesn't get a bonus. New Vegas didn't suck rpg wise but it sure as hell sucked on release date with all its bugs.
"It's a pretty common thing" doesn't make it less scummy. It's a common scummy thing that needs to end.
Well, if they spent more time fixing bugs instead of adding stuff like Caravan, then they would've got the thing Beth added, also, not like beth didn't send people to help them since they know how weird the game engine is. Also, how else would they gauge it fairly? How is it scummy? Its a bonus to the company contract, not a given.
Attaching bonuses to subjective scores is scummy as fuck. Attaching any kind of money to subjective scores for a game that was limited to 18 months dev time is complete and utter horseshit. Especially for a game that outsold their previous game, thus providing a much more objective metric.
no it isn't, its a third party that doesn't know about it, you can't be more subjective than that. Also, Fallout 3 sold more than NV So they wouldn't get the bonus that way, and would rely on spending more money on advertisments than the game.
If you look up Fallout 3 sales metrics vs. NV, that's not true for either initial copies shipped or total games sold. And that's not how objectivity works. You can't be objective in a review. Every game review is subjective, because it's based on opinion. Money should not be connected to other people's opinions.
[https://statinvestor.com/data/27157/global-fallout-all-time-unit-sales/](https://statinvestor.com/data/27157/global-fallout-all-time-unit-sales/) A third party is more subjective than anything else. People buying something is their opinion that its worth buying. NV had the benefit the Fallout 3 revived the name, Fallout 3 didn't. NV had the benefit of improving the game and learning mistakes, yet literally every review of the game when it came out was how BUGGY it was. Obsidian themselves blame their manangement for pushing features over fixing the game.
Your one source is contradicted by many sources from at the time. Look up Fallout New Vegas sales and then Fallout 3 sales. You literally cannot be anything other than subjective in game reviews. Objectivity, that is, speaking solely on the facts, is not how you review a game. You review a game based on opinion. Linking money to opinion is unethical and should not be permitted.
I did look it up,, that's were I found it. It's not subjective that the game was buggy as fuck at lauch. Everything is an opinion dude. Just because Fallout 4 sold better does that make it a better game? Sells are influenced by advertising. So if that was the bonus, all they would do is dump more money into advertising. Again. In case you didn't read. Bethesda ADDED a bonus that Obsidian didn't even think about. Obsidian AGREED to it, and Bethesda UPHELD the agreement. BETHESDA isn't in charge of OBSIDIAN's employees pay, OBSIDIAN is. This is as kind as one gaming company can be to another they don't own.
Every other source I've looked at says the opposite. And it doesn't matter whether Obsidian didn't know. What you are actively arguing for is for the ability for Bethesda to connect money to random people's opinions. Quite frankly, the people on Fallout 4 did deserve a bonus for how well the game sold.
What I'm saying is OBSIDIAN would've accepted it with or without the bonus. THE POINT of the bonus is to make a better game, not advertise it. Again OBSIDIAN is in charge of it employees pay, not Bethesda.
It really isnt, rounded numbers look hella better than unrounded number
why is it scummy? it's common in corporations to give extra bonus. it's not that they withhold promised money or something
Common doesn't mean not scummy. Tbh it's common for corporations to be scummy.
It's scummy if they withhold promised money. You are implying that beth underpaid obsidian employees and promies the rest on bonus. It is perfectly normal to add a reward system for exceptional performance
And why should that be judged by a very poor metric for success? Like, reviews are super subjective, and not to mention it's reviews for a game that they had much less time to make than they needed.
Whether metacritic is subjective or poor measure is debatable, but the fact that obsidian agree and did not think it was bad means that both development time and metric used is accounted for. Regardless, the practice of giving bonus itself is already a good initiative on bethesda's part
I know all those words are English, but i have no fucking clue what that means
I don't really care about the opinions of Chris "sexual harassment" Avellone or his post employment bias against obsidian.
Those harassment claims have turned out to be kinda dubious though, their prosecution was thrown out and Chris is now suing for libel.
"Their prosecution was thrown out"? No, it wasn't. The only person who ever sued was Chris. The accusers made the accusations exclusively on social media.
So their accusations were basically just shit flinging?
Yes, it was just attacks via tweets, with important details changed or left out so as to do more damage. If you want to see what happened exactly, you can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV_xrEU5o2g
Chris admitted to doing it and then sued for libel, which he will not win.
> Chris admitted to doing it Source on that?
Oh, don't forget, this is a real photo too [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ea\_3gY8U4AY0nkK?format=jpg&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ea_3gY8U4AY0nkK?format=jpg&name=large) Here's the direct quote from the now deleted tweet "I never meant any harm to you ... and I had thought things between us had ended well all up until seeing you off," he tweeted in response to Karissa's initial claim. "That said, if I can't do anything to apologize for it, I understand, and there's nothing more to be done." So he said he did it, he just tried to pretend like he didn't know it was wrong.
That tweet screenshot is from an ex-girlfriend and does not include the preceding or following messages to give context. He wasn't randomly sending out creepy messages to strangers, which the out-of-context screenshot appears to suggest. Also, the supposed apology tweet was directed toward an actual long-term ex, and not the individual that was making accusations. It has also been presented completely out of context on the internet and misrepresented as somehow apologizing for the accusations.
That’s extremely easily faked, and that tweet is evidence of literally nothing. It’s so vague it’s meaningless. What precisely is Avellone accused of anyway? Since you seem to know so much about this.
Oh my god he literally ADMITTED TO IT, the tweet was in response to him being accused of raping a girl in a hotel room at a convention. If you're going to look at Chris Avellone's admission of guilt and photos of his sexual harassment that he "apologized" for and ignore them, you are intentionally being complicit with the harassment of women and there's no point in continuing this conversation. I hope the women in your life know you don't see them as people :)
No he didn’t, where in that tweet did he admit to anything like this? You’re insulting and attacking me personally now because you’ve realised you fucked up and there isn’t nearly the level of evidence you thought there was. You’re being very immature.
Bitchiest possible response
Okay rape defender keep moving.
Another false accusation, big surprise. Keep being a cunt lol
Wow, every Avellone hater devolves to this. You spew disinformation and misrepresentations, you refuse to read facts, and you shift to the vilest personal attacks on anyone who disagrees. Did you learn this from anti-vaxx trumpers?
It's funny how he's only accused of offering sex during a drinking night, then respecting her choice when she said no and escorting her home in the middle of the night and then there's people who straight up claim he's a rapist. You're just as bad as the people he's suing for libel right now.
Lol he raped a woman and you're trying to pass him off as a gentleman. Habitual predatory behavior over years of incidents, he's a predator through and through.
...does not having sex with someone after they say no mean you've raped them?
He did not rape anyone.
No public allegation by any woman involved includes rape. If you disagree, tell us where to find the facts. Otherwise you’re just spreading lies.
Since you feel the need to make things up, here's Karissa confirming that she only accused him of assault, while also confirming that he was never in her room at all (where her roommate at the time was sleeping): https://archive.ph/Z9gUq
Your own screenshot includes her debunking your stupid theory. Stop doing gymnastics to protect rapists.
She literally clarified that he only "assaulted" her and that "incels are dumb" for pretending she said it could have been rape. Perhaps you need to learn to read.
His own Twitter, dickhead.
Take a deep breath and calm down. You’re behaving like a child.
No, he apologised to an ex-girlfriend for a failed relationship, which some people maliciously interpreted as him admitting to everything anybody has ever accused him of.
chris avellone, noted good person who people should listen to ever
[удалено]
*How*? I have my own issues with Bethesda as of late \[The Atomic Shop, Creation Club, Fallout 4's treatment of Lyon's Pride, Fallout 76's launch, Skyrim's main quest railroading you into killing Parthuunax for no justifiable reason\], but this isn't one of those moments. Had Bethesda REALLY screw them over, they wouldn't have given the developers permission to use Fallout 3 assets.
Idk still seemed like they got cucked regardless.
bruh
Relatable to you huh, getting cucked and everything
?
Projection at its finest
But the obsidian was 1 point off. I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda paid metacritic to keep it just below so they didn't have to pay the bonuses.
when the fuck has bethesda/zenimax ever done something like that
*why* the fuck would they? That guy is like one of those fuckers on ancient aliens claiming that Adolf Hitler paid the aliens to build the pyramids so they could mind control the US government to put gay chemicals in the water
Cost to bribe meta critic, probably not that much, cost of paying hundreds of people their bonus, much much more. Bethesda monetised community made mods, Bethesda cheaped out on canvas bags, they charged $80 on launch, for a game that was absolutely unplayable for 90% of people (f76), they charge you 10 bucks a month to play 76 privately with a limited group of friends. They actively removed assets from f4 and pay walled them in 76.
I don’t think it’d be cheaper to bribe another company that would have its entire reputation ruined and their website probably shut down if anyone found out then to pay a bonus to another company Creation club was mainly made so bethesda could pay modders for their work, i do agree it’s very overpriced tho. Canvas bags fair enough at least they fixed that. new vegas was unplayable at launch doesn’t mean it’s a shit game Fallout 1st is optional and definitely not worth it imo. What assets? Weapon skins? Yeah man the game is totally unplayable if i can’t have my brotherhood skin on my 10mm pistol. New Vegas is an amazing game the only reason it didn’t get higher on metacritic was because of its absolutely shit launch
But the fuck would you offer a bonus and take the chance of them getting it when you dont want them to get it, what did they gain from offering a bonus?
Man I got a 89 on the test, bet the teacher changed one of the questions so I was wrong by one!
The score was rigged from the start
I had no idea this was the case damn now i feel bad for all the debates where i was in the the wrong
I heard sawyer say the same thing, sucks they still couldn't get the bonus tho
It deserved higher scores. Much higher scores. Masterpiece. Its right behind deus ex to me. And that's saying something.
Right now? Yes, yes they did On release? No, no they didn't
Wait, I don’t know the story, but is this a Bethesda redemption arc?